| 00:33.53 | *** join/#bzflag-chat short_circuit (~james@h95.221.130.174.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) |
| 00:34.04 | *** join/#bzflag-chat ducktape (c08581a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.133.129.166) |
| 00:34.22 | ducktape | Anyone awake? |
| 00:36.11 | blast007 | yes |
| 00:36.27 | ducktape | hey blast. |
| 00:36.49 | ducktape | writing and email to tim |
| 00:37.05 | ducktape | to help save bzflag and all, just don't want to sound rude |
| 00:37.48 | ducktape | so how should i phrase the "Please change the licensing" part |
| 00:37.50 | ducktape | ? |
| 00:39.39 | blast007 | the licensing doesn't have to change to "save" the game |
| 00:40.55 | ducktape | I was paraphrasing. Perhaps I should've asked. What do we request Tim to do in the email? |
| 00:41.12 | ducktape | http://forums.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18378 talking about this |
| 00:41.46 | blast007 | it's more about how the project is run |
| 00:42.00 | blast007 | Tim hasn't been actively involved in years |
| 00:42.58 | ducktape | so should I ask him to be more involved? or ask him to change the way its run? |
| 00:42.58 | blast007 | 2.4.0 was an experiment to see if active management would improve development, and it did |
| 00:43.15 | ducktape | okay gotcha. |
| 00:44.23 | blast007 | so, whatever you want to write. it's not required that you send him anything at all. |
| 00:45.06 | blast007 | kierra's initial post on that topic kinda sums it up, and JeffM's post was just about what had been discussed with Tim |
| 00:45.34 | blast007 | and since then, Tim had said he wouldn't want to see the game go to MIT licensing, and JeffM didn't really want to see it go that way either, and nor would I |
| 00:45.37 | ducktape | Gotcha, well I figure if Tim hears people wanting more from bz, hey might do something. |
| 00:45.41 | ducktape | he* |
| 00:46.08 | blast007 | iirc, the MIT suggestion was by brlcad, and was suggested instead of having copyright change hands |
| 00:46.23 | blast007 | let me see if I can dig up some logs for you |
| 00:47.02 | ducktape | seems like MIT would just make things messy |
| 00:47.02 | ducktape | things coming out here and there. |
| 00:47.03 | ducktape | but I don't know much about licenses. |
| 00:48.11 | blast007 | http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/20130115.html.gz |
| 00:48.20 | blast007 | http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/20130118.html.gz |
| 00:51.52 | ducktape | hmm, so you're happy with the results of the 2.4.0 "experiment"? |
| 00:53.16 | blast007 | we got a release out in a relatively short timeframe after we set out to make 2.4.0, so, yeah |
| 00:53.22 | blast007 | and we kept feature creep to a minimum |
| 00:53.39 | blast007 | that's kinda killed us in the past, such as with 2.1/2.99.x |
| 00:53.59 | blast007 | we were developing 2.1/2.99.x for like 5 years |
| 00:54.16 | blast007 | and kept adding features before bugs were fixed |
| 00:54.34 | blast007 | so we had all these shiny new features, but so many critical bugs that prevented us from releasing |
| 00:54.47 | ducktape | yeah, whats the incentive for the developers? Just a hobby? |
| 00:54.50 | blast007 | I recall one bug that took two months and three developers to track down |
| 00:55.02 | blast007 | (in 2.99.x) |
| 00:55.18 | blast007 | yeah, nobody's "job" is BZFlag |
| 00:57.11 | ducktape | Everybody does their "hobby" differently, does that create problems with all the devs? visions and goals clashing? |
| 00:57.20 | ducktape | or do you guys follow that roadmap pretty closely? |
| 00:59.16 | ducktape | heh, im in school for cs. networking's gonna kill me |
| 01:00.59 | blast007 | the problem is that generally there wasn't a roadmap, or if there was, nobody really followed it |
| 01:01.22 | blast007 | that's how 2.4.0 was different than pretty much every other release |
| 01:01.42 | ducktape | I really like your idea/mention of "official" and "community" servers. |
| 01:02.02 | ducktape | the server list right now is almost so busy that its painful to look at. |
| 01:02.07 | blast007 | it had a fairly well defined set of goals, and it had someone looking over the project to keep track of what was going on |
| 01:02.18 | blast007 | so it wasn't just a "do whatever you feel like" kind of thing |
| 01:02.38 | ducktape | thats good atleast, that could be a problem with MIT licensing. |
| 01:02.48 | blast007 | huh? |
| 01:03.18 | blast007 | licensing doesn't affect development style |
| 01:04.29 | ducktape | it doesnt? |
| 01:04.42 | ducktape | with the MIT License aren't you able to pretty much do whatever you want with what the license covers? |
| 01:04.53 | blast007 | licensing affects who can do what with the code |
| 01:06.07 | ducktape | gotcha. my bad |
| 01:06.28 | blast007 | MIT doesn't require that people release their code modifications |
| 01:07.07 | blast007 | so someone or some company could take the code and make a commercial game out of it and not have to give anything back |
| 01:07.40 | blast007 | LGPL still allows people/companies to make a commercial game out of our code, but it requires that they will give the code out |
| 01:07.54 | ducktape | that makes sense. |
| 01:08.10 | blast007 | (and of course, I'm oversimplifying this - LGPL is a rather long license, whereas MIT is very short) |
| 01:08.20 | ducktape | makes sense that you wouldn't want that. |
| 01:13.25 | ducktape | blast, one last question |
| 01:13.32 | blast007 | k |
| 01:13.57 | ducktape | say this takes off, tim eases on the reigns and the dev team moves forward |
| 01:14.33 | ducktape | license changes or whatever needs to happen |
| 01:14.47 | blast007 | again, license is not reall the issue |
| 01:14.53 | blast007 | really* |
| 01:15.01 | blast007 | the lack of management is |
| 01:15.08 | ducktape | emphasis on "whatever needs to happen" |
| 01:15.20 | ducktape | where do you want bz to end up? |
| 01:15.33 | ducktape | mainstream super game? (unlikely) |
| 01:15.59 | ducktape | i guess i couldve just asked, whats your vision |
| 01:16.19 | ducktape | for bzflag and it's community |
| 01:16.49 | blast007 | http://wiki.bzflag.org/Development_RoadMap |
| 01:17.02 | ducktape | hahaha gotcha |
| 01:17.11 | ducktape | thanks man! take it easy |
| 01:17.22 | blast007 | :) |
| 01:17.26 | blast007 | you too |
| 01:17.30 | *** part/#bzflag-chat ducktape (c08581a6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.133.129.166) |
| 02:32.31 | *** join/#bzflag-chat I_Died_Once (~I_Died_On@unaffiliated/idiedonce/x-1828535) |
| 10:17.07 | *** join/#bzflag-chat I_Died_Once (~I_Died_On@unaffiliated/idiedonce/x-1828535) |
| 17:52.22 | *** join/#bzflag-chat infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
| 17:52.22 | *** topic/#bzflag-chat is Welcome to BZChat; the place to talk about your favorite tank game BZFLAG || http://bzflag.org || Forums http://my.bzflag.org/bb || http://my.bzflag.org/w/MapMaking || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/GettingHelp || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Download || non bzflag chat yields to bzflag chat yields to bzflag help. be kind and civil. this channel is logged at http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag-chat/ || Y |
| 19:07.37 | *** join/#bzflag-chat moondoggy (~moondoggy@unaffiliated/moondoggy) |
| 21:51.01 | *** join/#bzflag-chat moondoggy (~moondoggy@cpe-72-230-135-169.rochester.res.rr.com) |