| 00:00.15 | JeffM | do they commonly receive messages/emails from yuo and would the message appear to be unsolicited? |
| 00:00.15 | ThereYouHaveIt | best buddies, talked with a few times, played against, heard of? |
| 00:00.54 | ThereYouHaveIt | Since I hardly ever write PMs, most likely not "commonly" |
| 00:01.15 | JeffM | then you may want to PM them asking if they wish to have furhter discussion on the subject in private |
| 00:01.39 | ThereYouHaveIt | Do I have a limit how many PMs I can send per day? |
| 00:01.43 | blast007 | and again, keep in mind there is also an IRC channel |
| 00:01.46 | blast007 | ##guleague |
| 00:01.49 | JeffM | that would seem like a more reasonable course of action |
| 00:02.02 | JeffM | why would you need to know the limit, how many do you want to send? |
| 00:02.08 | ThereYouHaveIt | 3 or 4 |
| 00:02.22 | blast007 | shouldn't be a limit that low |
| 00:02.25 | JeffM | that should be fine, but be civil and ask if they want to talk first |
| 00:02.29 | ThereYouHaveIt | I just don´t want my account disabled again |
| 00:02.31 | JeffM | or use the IRC channel |
| 00:03.07 | ThereYouHaveIt | the IRC channel is the least suitable place to have such a discusion |
| 00:03.26 | JeffM | how would you know, when did you try? |
| 00:03.30 | ThereYouHaveIt | hardly any of the younger players know what IRC is |
| 00:03.44 | ThereYouHaveIt | And JeffM, you can be sure I used IRC way before you did it |
| 00:03.45 | JeffM | your discussion is with the GU admins, not the players |
| 00:03.50 | JeffM | really? |
| 00:03.56 | JeffM | wow, so before telnet, nice |
| 00:03.59 | ThereYouHaveIt | no, the discusion involves the player |
| 00:04.14 | ThereYouHaveIt | that makes no sense, jeffM |
| 00:04.24 | JeffM | how old do you think I am? |
| 00:04.30 | ThereYouHaveIt | Sub40 |
| 00:04.32 | blast007 | ThereYouHaveIt: you could organize a meeting there with other players |
| 00:04.36 | JeffM | god I wish |
| 00:04.49 | ThereYouHaveIt | If you are older, than maybe i was wrong |
| 00:04.54 | JeffM | I am |
| 00:05.08 | JeffM | my cracking knees wish I was under 40 :) |
| 00:05.20 | ThereYouHaveIt | ok, if you started at a young age with PCs, then I was wrong |
| 00:05.32 | JeffM | I used my first computer when I was 5 |
| 00:05.36 | JeffM | or 6 maybe |
| 00:05.38 | ThereYouHaveIt | or better:with a Schneider cpc |
| 00:05.41 | JeffM | basic on a trash80 |
| 00:06.38 | ThereYouHaveIt | ok then. still irc is a bad place to discuss it. the playerbase has to be involved and the have to be able to read what was written some timea ago |
| 00:06.41 | ThereYouHaveIt | times* |
| 00:06.52 | JeffM | the players don't run GU, the admins do |
| 00:07.05 | JeffM | why not talk to them first? |
| 00:07.16 | JeffM | or is your goal to just have a revolt and remove the admins? |
| 00:07.56 | JeffM | been there, done that, doens't always work out like you want :) |
| 00:08.12 | ThereYouHaveIt | obviously the way things are run there do not work well - so it is up to the playerbase to tell them what they want |
| 00:08.24 | blast007 | or to start a new league |
| 00:08.31 | JeffM | yeah that isn't the only way |
| 00:08.42 | JeffM | you should at least TRY to talk to the admins first |
| 00:08.55 | JeffM | then if that doesn't work then you look into more drastic measures |
| 00:08.58 | ThereYouHaveIt | there have been multiple tries to talk to them |
| 00:09.05 | JeffM | with you? |
| 00:09.12 | ThereYouHaveIt | your fishing |
| 00:09.19 | JeffM | or with orum posts that rag on them? |
| 00:09.31 | JeffM | teach a man to fish and he'll never go hungry ;) |
| 00:09.48 | blast007 | set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.. wait.. |
| 00:09.58 | JeffM | policy design by committy is hard, I'd recomend a set of changes first |
| 00:10.16 | JeffM | but you need to understand both sides |
| 00:10.16 | ThereYouHaveIt | my intention was to spend an hour to post a few lines - but obviously this turned into a full half-day job with all the stuff around ... |
| 00:10.28 | ThereYouHaveIt | I do understand both sides |
| 00:10.31 | blast007 | I really think one of the biggest issue is the long delays in coming to a decision |
| 00:10.38 | blast007 | issues* |
| 00:10.39 | JeffM | yeah they have a crap pollicy |
| 00:10.42 | ThereYouHaveIt | that is 1 point, blast |
| 00:10.52 | blast007 | other than that, it's more minor things |
| 00:10.55 | ThereYouHaveIt | how hard can it be to say: this topic, 1 week, majority votes |
| 00:10.59 | JeffM | make me a GU Admin and I can pass anything, I vote no, don't tell anyone, and BAM it passes |
| 00:11.10 | ThereYouHaveIt | whoever does not want to comment or vote, has not to |
| 00:11.32 | ThereYouHaveIt | but the way atm is: we wait till ever admin has said a thing, even if taked half a year |
| 00:11.37 | JeffM | you need some minium limits, like "at least 50% has to vote" |
| 00:11.44 | ThereYouHaveIt | you do not |
| 00:11.49 | JeffM | or you can have single people rule everything |
| 00:11.53 | ThereYouHaveIt | yes |
| 00:12.00 | JeffM | I don't understand why it has a council |
| 00:12.10 | JeffM | pick ONE dude, have them manage a group of operatonal admins |
| 00:12.12 | JeffM | done |
| 00:12.15 | ThereYouHaveIt | that is the problem, no one votes or take part in the discusion |
| 00:12.19 | JeffM | lay out the policy very clear and it's all goo |
| 00:12.22 | JeffM | good |
| 00:12.29 | JeffM | there should not be THAT many choices to make |
| 00:12.29 | ThereYouHaveIt | same with things like Rikers: |
| 00:12.32 | blast007 | ThereYouHaveIt: how do you know that, though? |
| 00:12.49 | ThereYouHaveIt | that tournament happens twice a year, still the manage to fail organizing it |
| 00:12.50 | blast007 | the forum they discuss in is private |
| 00:13.02 | ThereYouHaveIt | I know all of them personally |
| 00:13.20 | JeffM | well rikers is the common bzflag problem, they don't know how to look at other things that do the same idea |
| 00:13.26 | JeffM | sports tournamentes are very common |
| 00:13.31 | ThereYouHaveIt | So, if you know a tournament happens twice a year, why not already announce time and date for the summer Rikers |
| 00:13.31 | JeffM | simply copy one of those |
| 00:13.48 | ThereYouHaveIt | that would give enough time to organize properly, and to invite players |
| 00:13.56 | JeffM | because it's not a serious leauge to them |
| 00:14.02 | ThereYouHaveIt | once done, you have a blueprint for the next one |
| 00:14.05 | JeffM | this is why I don't think you understand both sides :) |
| 00:14.20 | blast007 | one reason is that people don't necessarily know their schedule that far ahead |
| 00:14.35 | ThereYouHaveIt | I do. But maybe I expect too much: if I am not willing anymore to be involved, I quit. That is my point |
| 00:14.36 | JeffM | oh you know them all personaly, cool we'll just ask Kiera who you areally are then |
| 00:14.41 | blast007 | and a tournament for a silly tank game is not goign to take priority over other things generally |
| 00:15.08 | JeffM | hey "Silly Tank Game(TM)" has built in tournament support! |
| 00:15.19 | blast007 | heh |
| 00:15.19 | ThereYouHaveIt | Yes, but when you reach that point, would it not be best for both if you say: I take a break from admin duties? |
| 00:15.31 | blast007 | ThereYouHaveIt: I'm talking about everyone |
| 00:15.42 | JeffM | possibly but it's not for you to decide that they should quit |
| 00:15.49 | blast007 | would all the players know 6 months in advance that they will be able to make it? |
| 00:15.56 | ThereYouHaveIt | Nope, that is a conclusion they should draw themselves |
| 00:16.16 | ThereYouHaveIt | blast, considering some just show up every 2 or 4 weeks, |
| 00:16.17 | JeffM | should is heaval based on your option, this is why discussion is in order, not revolt |
| 00:16.22 | JeffM | but hey it's your life |
| 00:16.42 | ThereYouHaveIt | there is just the need to have enough time to contact them |
| 00:18.01 | JeffM | how many tournaments have you run? |
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| 00:18.10 | JeffM | maybe you should run one to show them the framework? |
| 00:23.29 | ThereYouHaveIt | Thanks for reactivating my account. By |
| 00:23.31 | kierra | ThereYouHaveIt: ducati did do better :D |
| 00:24.00 | BulletCatcher | Cap'n scared 'em out of the water! |
| 00:24.05 | JeffM | hah, the moment he could have a real discussion, he poofs |
| 00:24.14 | JeffM | cus naw he's not a troll |
| 00:24.34 | blast007 | lol |
| 00:34.51 | kierra | BulletCatcher: who's 'Cap'n"? |
| 00:35.39 | BulletCatcher | That's a quote from the movie "The Hunt for Red October", but in this context it is you. |
| 00:36.16 | kierra | oh....well...who knew? |
| 00:43.03 | kierra | he and I go far back to when he joined bz |
| 00:44.01 | JeffM | what name did he used to play under? |
| 00:44.20 | kierra | pm |
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