| 00:51:59 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 08:39:22) |
| 00:52:06 | captain_proton | wb |
| 00:52:10 | vogon_jeltz | hi :) |
| 00:52:33 | captain_proton | translate that page :) |
| 00:54:23 | vogon_jeltz | hahahaha |
| 00:54:26 | vogon_jeltz | geez |
| 00:54:37 | captain_proton | colin bavarian |
| 00:54:39 | vogon_jeltz | feels like kicking the crap out of the Babelfish people |
| 00:54:51 | captain_proton | lol |
| 00:55:32 | vogon_jeltz | **time-out** after report of BZFlag think I me, that it perhaps interesting be can, times some developer of BZFlag close become acquainted with can. |
| 00:55:44 | vogon_jeltz | that's a l33t0 De->En translation |
| 00:56:04 | vogon_jeltz | it's all yoda'ed up |
| 00:57:56 | captain_proton | haha |
| 00:58:21 | vogon_jeltz | doesn't that sound eerily like something Yoda would say? |
| 00:58:42 | captain_proton | almost |
| 00:59:05 | captain_proton | ibot, x de en HOLARSE hat David Trowbridge und Colin Bayer, beide bei der Entwicklung von BZFlag beteiligt, mal zu ihrer Motivation zum Schreiben freier Spiele wie BZFlag befragt und auch etwas hinter das Leben von Linuxspiele-Entwicklern geschaut, ohne die viele freie Projekte nicht so voran kämen, wie sie es tuen. |
| 00:59:09 | | captain_proton: HOLARSE took part, times to its motivation to the writing of free plays such as BZFlag asked David Trowbridge and Colin Bavarian, both with the development of BZFlag and looked also something behind the life of Linuxspiele developers, without the many free projects not so in front k |
| 00:59:18 | captain_proton | haha] |
| 00:59:54 | vogon_jeltz | yeah, you didn't know that ibot just interfaces with Babelfish? |
| 01:00:29 | captain_proton | yeah i did i was just wanting to see it again ;) |
| 01:01:02 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 01:08:07 | captain_proton | hey what was the URL of that IA32 instruction set guide? |
| 01:08:23 | vogon_jeltz | argh... I forget |
| 01:08:33 | vogon_jeltz | gotta get off the phone... be back within an hour |
| 02:33:04 | captain_proton | wb |
| 02:33:30 | vogon_jeltz | hi :) |
| 02:49:32 | captain_proton | wonders who abstract is |
| 02:49:51 | abstract | its me "abs" |
| 02:49:58 | captain_proton | ahh |
| 02:49:59 | abstract | but abstract is my original nick |
| 02:50:15 | abstract | just don't use it as often from a host other than digithought |
| 02:50:26 | abstract | since i'll get called upon to be an oper |
| 02:50:38 | abstract | owns/sponsors card.openprojects |
| 02:51:00 | captain_proton | hrm |
| 02:51:03 | abstract | ? |
| 02:51:17 | captain_proton | oh nothing |
| 03:09:27 | EddieNull | re abs |
| 08:39:29 | MrApathyCream | hello? |
| 08:39:57 | vogon_jeltz | hi |
| 08:41:05 | MrApathyCream | hey! first time on irc.... found it |
| 08:41:16 | captain_proton | welcome |
| 08:44:11 | captain_proton | new as in other than tightrope? |
| 08:44:37 | vogon_jeltz | no |
| 08:44:40 | vogon_jeltz | :) |
| 08:44:50 | vogon_jeltz | Tightrope is done when I post it |
| 08:45:00 | vogon_jeltz | and it might not even be named that when it's done |
| 08:46:08 | MrApathyCream | When does Riker come out, to see if he sees his shadow or not? |
| 08:47:00 | | bzflag was last seen on #blob 12 hours, 20 minutes and 34 seconds ago, saying: to work... [Thu Jan 10 20:26:26 2002] |
| 08:47:00 | vogon_jeltz | ibot, seen bzflag |
| 08:48:18 | captain_proton | riker's been pretty busy lately - new baby and all |
| 08:48:42 | MrApathyCream | oh yeah? what's the name..... |
| 08:48:46 | MrApathyCream | Rogue? |
| 08:51:47 | captain_proton | uhm...i'm not sure i remember the name...let me look |
| 08:52:53 | captain_proton | cameron hains riker |
| 08:53:28 | MrApathyCream | nifty |
| 09:06:53 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: that spam thang is awesome |
| 09:29:58 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: here? |
| 09:30:12 | captain_proton | check this out: http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/S_psp7761121fig1a.jpg |
| 09:30:57 | MrApathyCream | awesome first link.... |
| 09:31:42 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: which? |
| 09:32:19 | MrApathyCream | petemoss |
| 09:32:28 | captain_proton | ahh |
| 09:32:54 | captain_proton | read the article linked at the bottom |
| 09:33:00 | captain_proton | "Unskilled and Unaware of it" |
| 09:33:03 | captain_proton | good read |
| 09:34:39 | captain_proton | i think the client-only commands should look different... |
| 09:34:44 | captain_proton | have a \ in front or something |
| 09:35:04 | MrApathyCream | yeah... agreed |
| 09:35:20 | captain_proton | ugh...i hate that bzfs is 1 source file... |
| 09:35:35 | captain_proton | it hurts... |
| 09:35:44 | captain_proton | "bzfs.cxx" 5649L, 170272C |
| 09:35:45 | captain_proton | ugh |
| 09:35:48 | MrApathyCream | too much of it is too support old clients... |
| 09:35:59 | MrApathyCream | silly imho |
| 09:36:15 | captain_proton | well in 1.8 we'll stop that :) |
| 09:36:25 | MrApathyCream | don't tease me |
| 09:36:39 | MrApathyCream | crs23 ever get involved? |
| 09:36:50 | captain_proton | in what? |
| 09:36:52 | MrApathyCream | dev |
| 09:36:56 | MrApathyCream | anymore? |
| 09:37:05 | captain_proton | uhm...not recently i don't think |
| 09:37:15 | captain_proton | probably still pissed at losing 1.6 due to a disk failure |
| 09:37:35 | MrApathyCream | Don't know any history |
| 09:37:53 | vogon_jeltz | he helped me track down the flag timing bug that was introduced with flags on buildings |
| 09:37:57 | captain_proton | i had the pleasure of playing a game with him for about 1/2 hour - just the two of us |
| 09:38:15 | MrApathyCream | still problem with flags over pyramids |
| 09:38:28 | vogon_jeltz | meh... that's not my fault, as far as I know :) |
| 09:38:30 | captain_proton | he told me that he lost all of 1.6 because his hd failed |
| 09:38:37 | vogon_jeltz | I had flags landing perfectly well on pyramids |
| 09:38:37 | captain_proton | and it had fun stuff |
| 09:38:40 | captain_proton | like occlusion culling |
| 09:38:53 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: thats rikers fault - he pulled all the pyramid code |
| 09:39:10 | MrApathyCream | yup |
| 09:39:28 | vogon_jeltz | all one would have to do is just modify the find-topmost-object code to set topmost.z to 0... problem solved |
| 09:39:37 | vogon_jeltz | (in case of pyramids) |
| 09:39:46 | MrApathyCream | I'd rather have a triangle primitive.... |
| 09:39:54 | captain_proton | heh... |
| 09:39:58 | MrApathyCream | then could have any complex polygon through triangulation |
| 09:40:04 | captain_proton | having a triangle primitive would make the worlds much more complex |
| 09:40:09 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 09:40:18 | vogon_jeltz | it also makes cappy's life suck much more |
| 09:40:18 | captain_proton | it |
| 09:40:24 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 09:40:32 | MrApathyCream | bzedit would be alot more simple... |
| 09:40:40 | MrApathyCream | just draw a poly |
| 09:41:00 | vogon_jeltz | yeah, but we'd have to implement real, honest-to-Bob collision detection |
| 09:41:01 | captain_proton | it'd also make it impossible to create worlds on systems not capable of running bzedit |
| 09:41:10 | captain_proton | wonders who bob is |
| 09:41:13 | captain_proton | MS Bob? |
| 09:41:14 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 09:41:15 | vogon_jeltz | no |
| 09:41:39 | vogon_jeltz | is trying to phase out usage of "God" in his speech because he's an atheist |
| 09:41:57 | captain_proton | lol |
| 09:41:58 | MrApathyCream | how do you think? |
| 09:42:09 | MrApathyCream | in irc i mean |
| 09:42:13 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 09:42:19 | captain_proton | i got pissed at someone in #AO - i said 'my god' in response to a bugtraq message and he answered |
| 09:42:26 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: /me <action> |
| 09:42:43 | MrApathyCream | like |
| 09:43:02 | vogon_jeltz | but, remember, you have to write the rest of the sentence in third-person |
| 09:43:14 | MrApathyCream | understands this |
| 09:43:16 | captain_proton | yeah...else it just looks bad |
| 09:43:20 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 09:43:21 | captain_proton | :) |
| 09:44:17 | MrApathyCream | any chance we could get a 1.8 branch with write access? |
| 09:44:23 | vogon_jeltz | hmm |
| 09:44:29 | captain_proton | i could create a new module... :) |
| 09:44:35 | vogon_jeltz | if you can find Chris or Tim, yeah |
| 09:44:52 | captain_proton | has write access to cvs |
| 09:45:09 | captain_proton | is also a module releaser :) |
| 09:45:32 | captain_proton | haha...my sf priveledges 0wnz j00rs vogon_jeltz |
| 09:45:38 | vogon_jeltz | hah |
| 09:45:44 | vogon_jeltz | needs those privs |
| 09:45:48 | vogon_jeltz | or do I have them? :/ |
| 09:45:56 | captain_proton | needs which provs? |
| 09:45:58 | captain_proton | privs rather |
| 09:46:48 | MrApathyCream | decided to release his own private versions on web site |
| 09:47:10 | captain_proton | well yeah - for intermediate dev clients that makes sense |
| 09:47:19 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 09:47:24 | captain_proton | it'd be nice to have a central repository for all of that though |
| 09:47:42 | MrApathyCream | Yup |
| 09:47:45 | captain_proton | considers hosting such a thing |
| 09:47:56 | MrApathyCream | smells burning |
| 09:48:04 | captain_proton | ? |
| 09:48:05 | MrApathyCream | :) |
| 09:48:37 | MrApathyCream | that patch message stuff is nasty |
| 09:48:41 | vogon_jeltz | k, the first thing I want to implement is MD5-summing and local caching of maps |
| 09:49:02 | MrApathyCream | for cheat detection (MD5) |
| 09:49:06 | MrApathyCream | ? |
| 09:49:20 | vogon_jeltz | no |
| 09:49:22 | captain_proton | no - md5 of the map |
| 09:49:27 | vogon_jeltz | just to cache maps, improve loading time |
| 09:49:34 | MrApathyCream | big problem? |
| 09:49:35 | captain_proton | md5 summing for cheat detection doesn't work |
| 09:49:44 | vogon_jeltz | MrApathyCream: when it takes 10 seconds to connect, yeah |
| 09:50:11 | MrApathyCream | how big are these maps (in K)? |
| 09:50:18 | MrApathyCream | can't be that big |
| 09:50:53 | vogon_jeltz | they really aren't, but they're sent non-blocking, one-at-a-time |
| 09:51:11 | MrApathyCream | vj, weren't u looking at openal at one point? |
| 09:51:21 | vogon_jeltz | MrApathyCream: yup |
| 09:51:29 | MrApathyCream | any progress? or conclusions? |
| 09:51:31 | vogon_jeltz | MrApathyCream: still am, but the code deserves a complete rewrite |
| 09:51:43 | captain_proton | openal would be nice...its got a much better HAP function |
| 09:52:30 | captain_proton | average world size seems to be about 15k |
| 09:52:34 | MrApathyCream | AList boo stl yeah |
| 09:52:53 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: and the packets are sent one at a time, about 40 bytes apiece |
| 09:52:57 | captain_proton | yep |
| 09:53:07 | MrApathyCream | doh! |
| 09:53:21 | vogon_jeltz | so that's about... 375 sends per world? |
| 09:53:34 | MrApathyCream | doh, doh! |
| 09:53:36 | vogon_jeltz | points out that his ISP only allows through maybe 40 per send |
| 09:53:42 | vogon_jeltz | s/send/second/ |
| 09:56:06 | MrApathyCream | are we really doing 1.7e5 release next? |
| 09:56:18 | MrApathyCream | seems nickel and dime to me |
| 09:56:20 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 09:56:34 | captain_proton | no we're not |
| 09:56:37 | vogon_jeltz | if you guys wanna help me draft up a new protocol addendum, we'll start on 1.8 |
| 09:56:43 | captain_proton | :) |
| 09:56:55 | MrApathyCream | :) |
| 09:57:51 | MrApathyCream | Riker has final say, I assume? |
| 09:58:18 | vogon_jeltz | mebbe |
| 09:58:21 | captain_proton | probably |
| 09:58:24 | captain_proton | lets revolt! |
| 09:58:28 | vogon_jeltz | hehe |
| 09:58:32 | MrApathyCream | :) |
| 09:58:45 | captain_proton | hrm if we're gonna revolt we need a slogan... |
| 09:58:50 | captain_proton | ;) |
| 09:59:23 | vogon_jeltz | I think we should also work on an in-engine world editor |
| 09:59:23 | MrApathyCream | What should 1.8 be? |
| 09:59:36 | MrApathyCream | meaning using bzflag code? |
| 09:59:39 | vogon_jeltz | yeh |
| 10:00:02 | vogon_jeltz | points out that Tribes2 has one of the most fan-flipping-tastic in-engine world editors ever |
| 10:00:42 | MrApathyCream | mumbles to himself, self, never tried that. |
| 10:01:23 | captain_proton | but...but.... |
| 10:01:32 | captain_proton | 's lip quivers |
| 10:01:38 | captain_proton | you said bzedit was k-l33t... |
| 10:01:41 | vogon_jeltz | it is |
| 10:01:47 | vogon_jeltz | and we can merge the code :) |
| 10:02:47 | vogon_jeltz | we can upgrade the rendering engine with the BZEdit code, port the UI to a different widget set (some SDL lib mebbe), and we have BZEditFlag |
| 10:02:59 | MrApathyCream | Was bzfs always a polling asynchronous server |
| 10:03:05 | captain_proton | hahaha |
| 10:03:10 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: no clue |
| 10:03:24 | MrApathyCream | I wonder if multithreaded synchronous server wouldn't be faster |
| 10:03:36 | captain_proton | i bet it would be |
| 10:03:36 | MrApathyCream | Only max of 40 threads... small time |
| 10:03:48 | captain_proton | bzflag developers are frightened of threading |
| 10:04:04 | MrApathyCream | cross platform may get a little dicey |
| 10:04:04 | vogon_jeltz | threading r00lz |
| 10:04:17 | MrApathyCream | more factory classes |
| 10:04:23 | captain_proton | if we get a decent port to sdl going it becomes easy |
| 10:04:28 | vogon_jeltz | hasn't given in to the wussy SDL threading stuff |
| 10:04:32 | vogon_jeltz | pthreads all the way |
| 10:04:44 | captain_proton | hahaha |
| 10:04:55 | captain_proton | but SDL is portable - its the same interface across platforms |
| 10:05:04 | vogon_jeltz | true, it's not "cross-platform", and it's not "easy", but it's cool |
| 10:05:13 | captain_proton | reminds vogon_jeltz that the portable pthreads project is in its infancy |
| 10:05:35 | MrApathyCream | also, my tank should move from network messages, not my mouse |
| 10:05:46 | MrApathyCream | <remove lag> |
| 10:05:59 | vogon_jeltz | yes, but it makes it choppy as hell for those of us not on broadband |
| 10:06:28 | MrApathyCream | maybe averaging? or something |
| 10:07:18 | vogon_jeltz | *shrug* |
| 10:08:21 | vogon_jeltz | Tribes2 (yes, I'm bringing it up again), which has just about the cleanest netcode in the Universe, can pull it off, but I don't think BZFlag will be able to without a major rewrite |
| 10:09:30 | MrApathyCream | I highly doubt any significant rewrites will happen... judging from past experience |
| 10:09:47 | captain_proton | we just need to make it happen |
| 10:09:55 | MrApathyCream | Can't even get the dang protocol changed to add on cmd |
| 10:10:03 | captain_proton | we'll redesign the entire protocol, which will *force* a rewrite of the netcode |
| 10:10:38 | vogon_jeltz | starts hacking on an MD5 hash dealie for maps |
| 10:11:03 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: keep in mind the initial stuff *ought* to be xml |
| 10:11:19 | MrApathyCream | I agree maps == XML |
| 10:11:29 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: first, I'd like to get the MD5 stuff working |
| 10:11:35 | captain_proton | more than maps i think... |
| 10:11:44 | captain_proton | we can do flag negotiation and all that with xml |
| 10:12:02 | MrApathyCream | Ehhh, still be tough to dynamically add flags |
| 10:12:05 | vogon_jeltz | <-- +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+ |
| 10:12:05 | vogon_jeltz | | length | 67 | 77 |remaining data... | MsgGetWorld |
| 10:12:05 | vogon_jeltz | +----+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+ |
| 10:12:07 | captain_proton | i think everything excepting play-time protocols should be xml |
| 10:12:16 | vogon_jeltz | that's what I have to modify first |
| 10:12:18 | MrApathyCream | thats fine |
| 10:12:30 | captain_proton | <world length="#"> ... </world> |
| 10:12:33 | vogon_jeltz | hmm |
| 10:12:37 | vogon_jeltz | I wonder |
| 10:12:41 | MrApathyCream | hmm 67 77 C .... |
| 10:12:46 | captain_proton | that also removes size limits on everything |
| 10:13:02 | MrApathyCream | CM? |
| 10:13:04 | vogon_jeltz | I bet I could have the initial version message send the hash, too |
| 10:13:16 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: bad bad bad |
| 10:13:23 | vogon_jeltz | hah |
| 10:13:24 | captain_proton | that doesn't allow in-game changing of maps |
| 10:13:31 | vogon_jeltz | ahh, good point |
| 10:13:45 | MrApathyCream | yes! i was planning on making an engineer flag |
| 10:13:46 | vogon_jeltz | hmm... looks like it's time for MsgWorldHash |
| 10:13:57 | MrApathyCream | tank moves buildings around |
| 10:14:01 | vogon_jeltz | ahh, l33t |
| 10:14:09 | captain_proton | <world hash="" /> |
| 10:14:20 | captain_proton | <request item="world"> |
| 10:14:31 | captain_proton | <world> ... </world> |
| 10:14:31 | vogon_jeltz | dude, I'm not getting into XML now |
| 10:14:39 | MrApathyCream | hehe |
| 10:14:44 | captain_proton | hahaha |
| 10:14:47 | vogon_jeltz | so *SHUT* *UP*!!!!!!! |
| 10:14:49 | vogon_jeltz | :P |
| 10:15:23 | MrApathyCream | sheeesh just crush the guy... first bzedit now xml ---> squash |
| 10:15:24 | vogon_jeltz | hmm... if I do this, I'm going to need a server to test it with |
| 10:15:48 | captain_proton | $srcroot/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx |
| 10:15:51 | vogon_jeltz | argh... the white of the protocol document burns my eyes! |
| 10:15:58 | vogon_jeltz | oh, duh :) |
| 10:16:22 | vogon_jeltz | hmm... I'll need a map caching directory :/ |
| 10:16:36 | MrApathyCream | data/maps |
| 10:16:43 | captain_proton | ~/.bzflag/maps |
| 10:16:48 | MrApathyCream | better |
| 10:16:51 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream: won't work for unix types |
| 10:16:52 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: I'll need a *remote* server so that I can see if there are any tangible speed gains |
| 10:17:17 | captain_proton | i'll put up one on babylonia when you finish haxoring it up |
| 10:17:27 | vogon_jeltz | hax0rz it up |
| 10:18:30 | vogon_jeltz | if I store the world file with a name that's an ASCII representation of its hash, I won't even have to open it! :) |
| 10:18:47 | captain_proton | hahaha |
| 10:19:44 | MrApathyCream | need cache stale period? |
| 10:20:01 | vogon_jeltz | not initially |
| 10:20:21 | vogon_jeltz | I should prolly plop in logic to only send MsgWorldHash if it's a custom world |
| 10:20:35 | captain_proton | perhaps just a size limit - if your cache gets above 1M or something have it ask the user if they want to clean it |
| 10:20:45 | MrApathyCream | better |
| 10:20:54 | MrApathyCream | nuke oldest first |
| 10:21:00 | vogon_jeltz | first off, I'm just trying to work this so that it *works* :) |
| 10:21:11 | MrApathyCream | come on come on.... we want it all |
| 10:21:16 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 10:21:35 | captain_proton | we'll get it eventually |
| 10:21:48 | captain_proton | ugh...they're playing this bizzare 'trans-europe-express' song on mfh again |
| 10:22:37 | MrApathyCream | ponders mfh ...... [meq] for hire? .... nah, that's not it |
| 10:22:48 | captain_proton | www.musicforhackers.com |
| 10:23:33 | vogon_jeltz | recovers from a brain far |
| 10:23:35 | vogon_jeltz | fart, even |
| 10:23:40 | captain_proton | ha |
| 10:23:56 | vogon_jeltz | for the past couple of minutes, I was trying to figure out how to get a directory listing in C, convinced that I'd need it |
| 10:24:08 | vogon_jeltz | then, I realized that I only need to determine if a file exists or not :P |
| 10:24:26 | captain_proton | readdir(2) |
| 10:24:41 | vogon_jeltz | DESCRIPTION |
| 10:24:42 | vogon_jeltz | This is not the function you are interested in. |
| 10:25:01 | captain_proton | haha |
| 10:25:03 | captain_proton | readdir(3) |
| 10:25:15 | vogon_jeltz | can picture Obi-Wan waving his virtual hand from the man page |
| 10:25:33 | vogon_jeltz | <Obi-Wan> This is not the system call you're looking for... |
| 10:25:37 | captain_proton | hahaha |
| 10:25:43 | captain_proton | roflmao |
| 10:26:26 | captain_proton | or even better - scandir(3) |
| 10:26:59 | captain_proton | as it is i think stat is good enough |
| 10:27:16 | vogon_jeltz | haha |
| 10:27:56 | vogon_jeltz | int scandir(const char *, struct dirent ***, int *(func)(const struct dirent *), int *(func)(const struct dirent **, const struct dirent**)); |
| 10:28:08 | captain_proton | :) |
| 10:28:14 | vogon_jeltz | bwahaha... that is the most evil function prototype ever |
| 10:28:21 | captain_proton | i especially like the struct dirent *** |
| 10:28:53 | vogon_jeltz | <narrator> And you thought they'd never use a 3rd-level pointer... well, you were *WRONG*!!! Mwahahahaha! |
| 10:29:16 | captain_proton | lol |
| 10:29:24 | captain_proton | actually that isn't the most evil function prototype |
| 10:29:50 | captain_proton | the most evil function prototype happened when i was trying to define main as a function pointer to a static member function of a class |
| 10:29:53 | vogon_jeltz | hmm... a pointer to a pointer to a struct dirent * |
| 10:30:00 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: eww |
| 10:30:16 | captain_proton | acutally its a pointer to a struct dirent *[] |
| 10:30:20 | vogon_jeltz | ahh |
| 10:30:26 | MrApathyCream | you could just try to rename it |
| 10:31:06 | vogon_jeltz | Foo::Bar(int *(func)(int, char **), ...); |
| 10:31:10 | vogon_jeltz | that's not all that bad |
| 10:32:11 | vogon_jeltz | checks his archived bits of Paranoia Online source for that one evilly-prototyped function he had to use |
| 10:32:31 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: uhm...no, not quite |
| 10:34:53 | MrApathyCream | decides beauty sleep is in order... |
| 10:34:57 | vogon_jeltz | int ini_action(const char *message, int level, int(*func_cb)(void *), void *arg); |
| 10:35:12 | captain_proton | thats not too bad |
| 10:35:14 | vogon_jeltz | that's not the most evil part... |
| 10:35:15 | MrApathyCream | nite folks |
| 10:35:18 | vogon_jeltz | nn |
| 10:35:20 | captain_proton | goodnight MrApathyCream |
| 10:35:39 | captain_proton | whats the most evil part? |
| 10:36:09 | vogon_jeltz | the void * was to a function-specific argument structure... |
| 10:36:23 | captain_proton | ugh |
| 10:36:27 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 10:36:29 | captain_proton | scandir is better i think |
| 10:38:29 | vogon_jeltz | points out that he decided to kill that line of development once he found out about va_lists |
| 10:40:03 | captain_proton | huh? |
| 10:40:09 | captain_proton | va_list is good |
| 10:40:12 | vogon_jeltz | yeh |
| 10:40:14 | captain_proton | well, decent |
| 10:40:32 | vogon_jeltz | and I didn't want to have to rewrite all of the functions called from that one just to modify it |
| 10:40:41 | captain_proton | oh now i see what you're saying |
| 10:40:48 | captain_proton | i need sleep |
| 10:40:51 | vogon_jeltz | nn |
| 10:44:20 | captain_proton | not quite yet |
| 10:44:30 | captain_proton | reading the windowing system page on /. |
| 10:44:33 | captain_proton | this is awesome: |
| 10:44:38 | captain_proton | #include <rants/usability.h> |
| 10:44:38 | captain_proton | #include <rants/msvapple.h> |
| 10:44:38 | captain_proton | #include <rants/nextstep.h> |
| 10:44:38 | captain_proton | #include <slashdot/troll.h> |
| 10:44:38 | captain_proton | #include <stdio.h> |
| 10:44:39 | captain_proton | int main (int argc, char *argv[]) |
| 10:44:40 | captain_proton | { |
| 10:44:42 | captain_proton | puts("Real programmers use curses"); |
| 10:44:44 | captain_proton | return 0; |
| 10:44:46 | captain_proton | } |
| 10:44:48 | vogon_jeltz | hah |
| 10:46:33 | captain_proton | ? |
| 10:46:43 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 10:46:52 | vogon_jeltz | <relnev> Somebody should change their "internet handle" to "Microsoft" and see what confusion can ensue. |
| 10:46:53 | vogon_jeltz | <vogon_jeltz> heh |
| 10:46:53 | vogon_jeltz | --- You are now known as microsoft |
| 10:46:53 | vogon_jeltz | <microsoft> Linux rules! |
| 10:46:53 | vogon_jeltz | --- You are now known as vogon_jeltz |
| 10:47:10 | captain_proton | lol |
| 10:47:26 | vogon_jeltz | points out that relnev was the one who needed that algorithm thing |
| 10:47:38 | captain_proton | ahh |
| 10:48:01 | captain_proton | hey - my friends and I came up with an interesting 'game' of sorts... |
| 10:48:08 | vogon_jeltz | w0t? |
| 10:48:17 | captain_proton | you give each other a simple C program in binary |
| 10:48:41 | captain_proton | and you reverse engineer it back to source |
| 10:48:42 | vogon_jeltz | eww |
| 10:48:53 | captain_proton | its actually quite fun... :/ |
| 10:48:57 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 10:49:17 | vogon_jeltz | I might try it later... I need to get the MD5 kludge working, tho |
| 10:49:51 | captain_proton | i haven't quite figured out how to get buffer sizes in gdb yet though |
| 10:58:39 | captain_proton | 'night |
| 10:58:46 | vogon_jeltz | nn |
| 11:30:16 | vogon_jeltz | hmm |
| 11:38:10 | vogon_jeltz | shoot |
| 11:55:35 | vogon_jeltz | hmm... ya know what? I'm not going to implement full map caching yet, just check to see if there's a matching map on the client end |
| 12:19:24 | vogon_jeltz | MD5 hash is: 91a2875c0f42246d05f3b2068c595b31 <-- w00t! it actually reads the hash :) |
| 12:20:52 | vogon_jeltz | now, I have to figure out why the hell the Makefile isn't working right |
| 12:24:17 | vogon_jeltz | w00t... fix0red |
| 12:59:18 | vogon_jeltz | hmm |
| 12:59:35 | vogon_jeltz | yup, that breaks the protocol, and good |
| 13:02:05 | vogon_jeltz | the server version descriptor has been bumped to "BZFS108a" |
| 13:02:17 | vogon_jeltz | can I get a w00t-w00t? :) |
| 14:13:32 | Chestal | fought some czech guys on ducati yesterday, had never seen them before, very tough |
| 14:14:07 | vogon_jeltz | cool |
| 14:14:28 | vogon_jeltz | Chestal: do you know if the current CVS works for servers? |
| 14:14:40 | Chestal | I thought they were using aliases at firest, but I checked their IP in teh server logs and they were from some czech univsersity or school |
| 14:14:45 | vogon_jeltz | would bet his ass that Tim broke it with the PlayerId flip |
| 14:14:51 | Chestal | I am still at 1.7e3+patches :-| |
| 14:14:54 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 14:14:56 | Chestal | I guess I should upgrade |
| 14:14:58 | vogon_jeltz | 1.7e4's nice |
| 14:15:09 | Chestal | at lewast I need to patch the new radar in e4 |
| 14:15:14 | Chestal | I don't like all of it |
| 14:15:30 | Chestal | btw, I wrote a very small patch which adds [paused] and [not responding] to the scoreboard |
| 14:15:30 | vogon_jeltz | I'm trying to implement MD5-based map caching, but I need to be able to kludge together added messages and have them work... damn Tim |
| 14:15:35 | vogon_jeltz | cool |
| 14:16:07 | Chestal | caching to avoid having to transfer the map each time? |
| 14:16:17 | vogon_jeltz | yup :) |
| 14:17:13 | Chestal | maybe I should update before creatign the patch. I don't know if it would work seamlessly with e5 |
| 14:17:18 | vogon_jeltz | I've already gotten the server to check the MD5 sum of the world and send it with the world data, but I think the netcode's broken |
| 14:18:11 | vogon_jeltz | yup, it is |
| 14:18:47 | vogon_jeltz | argh... SF is so freaking slow right now |
| 14:18:55 | vogon_jeltz | you know where I can find 1.7e4? |
| 14:20:19 | Chestal | hmm, on sourceforge :-) |
| 14:20:24 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 14:21:25 | vogon_jeltz | mmm... ethereal's a great toy |
| 14:25:00 | Chestal | yes, I used it a lot to fix the pre-E3/4 message bugs |
| 14:25:12 | vogon_jeltz | nice choice :) |
| 14:26:52 | vogon_jeltz | (possibly one of the most absurdly funny musical numbers from the best animated program ever, Futurama) |
| 14:36:22 | Chestal | I like Simpsons better |
| 14:36:28 | Chestal | haven't seen Futurama for a while, though |
| 14:36:31 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 14:36:39 | vogon_jeltz | it's a damn good show :) |
| 14:36:54 | Chestal | I started to watch mpegs of the show when it first aired in the US |
| 14:37:04 | Chestal | I think I've seen first two seasons |
| 14:37:44 | Chestal | then German TV aired dubbed versions, I could never get accustomed to the German version and somehow I stopped watching it altogether |
| 14:38:38 | vogon_jeltz | I think the episode in question (How Hermes Requisitioned His Groove Back) was at the beginning of the 3rd season |
| 14:39:10 | vogon_jeltz | w00t! |
| 14:39:18 | Chestal | I might have seen this one, I do not really remember, that was ages ago ;-) |
| 14:39:19 | vogon_jeltz | MD5 hash is: 91a2875c0f42246d05f3b2068c595b31 <-- from server |
| 14:39:27 | vogon_jeltz | MD5 hash of remote world is: 91a2875c0f42246d05f3b2068c595b31 <-- from client |
| 14:39:34 | vogon_jeltz | does the "my code works" dance |
| 14:40:03 | vogon_jeltz | granted, it doesn't do anything yet, but I can fix that :) |
| 14:41:22 | Chestal | why is it that chanserv won't op me most of the time? |
| 14:41:46 | vogon_jeltz | *shrug* |
| 14:42:49 | vogon_jeltz | is it just me, or should we write up an Ethereal packet decoding module for BZFlag? |
| 14:44:01 | Chestal | hmm, that would be neat :-) |
| 14:44:06 | vogon_jeltz | :) |
| 14:44:43 | vogon_jeltz | points out that he has the first ever BZFlag 1.8a0 client |
| 14:44:48 | vogon_jeltz | ... *ever* |
| 14:46:15 | vogon_jeltz | you want the patch? |
| 14:46:50 | Chestal | no, not now, I need to clean up my own code here so I can migrate to current CVS |
| 14:47:08 | vogon_jeltz | okey-dokey :) |
| 15:05:14 | vogon_jeltz | argh... gotta restart |
| 15:06:59 | vogon_jeltz | hmm... no, wait :/ |
| 15:07:58 | vogon_jeltz | if I make a semi-careless assumption, I can get it to work |
| 15:10:30 | vogon_jeltz | no, n/m |
| 15:10:31 | vogon_jeltz | :( |
| 15:10:38 | qnxlibre | hi / salut |
| 15:10:43 | qnxlibre | a new project search developers...:) tsunami.dhis.org/colonisation |
| 15:14:25 | Chestal | hmm, IRC spam |
| 15:14:46 | Chestal | vogon: hmm, what's your problem? |
| 15:15:18 | vogon_jeltz | argh.. because of the way the code is designed, all of the world database is transferred before my code would check the MD5 hash |
| 15:15:45 | vogon_jeltz | which means that I'll have to add 2 new message types instead of one |
| 17:23:51 | MrApathyCream | MD5 work? |
| 17:30:07 | vogon_jeltz | no |
| 17:30:11 | vogon_jeltz | not yet, anyway |
| 17:30:20 | vogon_jeltz | I've gotta go get some sleep soon, too |
| 17:36:17 | vogon_jeltz | is away: sl33pz0rz |
| 19:02:03 | captain_proton | gives vogon_jeltz a w00t w00t! |
| 20:10:29 | captain_proton | hey tim |
| 20:10:37 | captain_proton | we've decided to start on 1.8 |
| 20:10:57 | captain_proton | i've got a question for you: |
| 20:11:08 | captain_proton | how does 1-port comm change the beginnings of the protocol? |
| 20:16:12 | captain_proton | BZFlag: ? |
| 20:28:48 | captain_proton | considers flooding BZFlag's firewall to get his attention |
| 20:33:10 | BZFlag | captain_proton: well. If we are going to change the protocol, I'd like to eliminate the reconnect. |
| 20:33:30 | BZFlag | I also want the client to send its version number to the server first, and a list of flags it knows. |
| 20:33:45 | BZFlag | I would like all floats changed to 32 bit longs |
| 20:34:16 | BZFlag | and add a status so that games can be restarted without dicsonnect/reconnect. |
| 20:34:34 | BZFlag | it would be nice to do all udp or all tcp depending on the way the client connects. |
| 20:34:35 | captain_proton | BZFlag: well... |
| 20:34:41 | BZFlag | playerid will be just 1 byte. |
| 20:34:53 | captain_proton | i wanted to do xml for initial handshaking |
| 20:35:10 | captain_proton | which eliminates all variable sizes (at least somewhat) |
| 20:35:22 | captain_proton | so - let me get this straight |
| 20:35:29 | captain_proton | --> connect |
| 20:35:34 | captain_proton | <-- server version |
| 20:35:35 | BZFlag | does not make much sense to have initial be xml and everything else not xml. |
| 20:35:40 | captain_proton | --> client version |
| 20:35:55 | captain_proton | well playtime stuff can't be xml and still have reasonable speed |
| 20:36:09 | BZFlag | and everything else has size contraints such that xml would not be the best choice. |
| 20:36:11 | captain_proton | but just about everything else can be (world files, flag negotiation, etc) |
| 20:36:53 | BZFlag | no, --> connect sends client version and flags supported (at least) |
| 20:37:09 | BZFlag | then <-- server version, game status, etc. |
| 20:37:32 | captain_proton | well i think flag negotiation could be a step *after* versions... |
| 20:37:40 | BZFlag | why? |
| 20:37:46 | captain_proton | then the server could immediately tell the client if its too old |
| 20:37:58 | BZFlag | the server can still say that. |
| 20:37:59 | captain_proton | it'd be nice to set a minimum client version on the server |
| 20:38:13 | BZFlag | if you are going to send a packet, why not fill it up? |
| 20:38:31 | BZFlag | why force 2 packets and another round of handshaking? |
| 20:38:32 | captain_proton | yeah... |
| 20:38:36 | captain_proton | good point |
| 20:39:34 | BZFlag | it would be interesting to write a version of the protocol that was http ;-) |
| 20:39:45 | captain_proton | ick |
| 20:40:13 | BZFlag | use http 1.1 so that the connection persisted and then pretty much anyone could play. firewalls be damned. |
| 20:40:35 | captain_proton | 56k users be damned too =/ |
| 20:40:55 | captain_proton | it would make it unplayable on anything less than cable or dsl |
| 20:41:26 | BZFlag | I would not make it the only option, just one of the options. ie: in order of preference, udp bz only, tcp bz only, tcp http tunnel. |
| 20:41:30 | captain_proton | one of my personal goals for 1.8 is to have the netcode *better* then it is now |
| 20:42:56 | captain_proton | besides, i can't figure out why people firewall the entire UDP spectrum anyhow |
| 20:43:22 | BZFlag | actually I'd prefix that... ipv6 multicast, ipv4 multicast, ipv6 udp only, ipv4 udp only, ipv6 tcp only, ipv4 tcp only, ipv6 http tunnel, ipv4 http tunnel. |
| 20:43:36 | BZFlag | ;-) |
| 20:43:46 | captain_proton | haha |
| 20:43:56 | captain_proton | i really need to figure out exactly how multicast works |
| 20:45:13 | captain_proton | care to explain multicast protocols to me? |
| 20:51:37 | captain_proton | we came up with some wishes last night: |
| 20:51:49 | captain_proton | 1) a 1.8 branch with write access |
| 20:52:02 | captain_proton | 2) a central repository for pre-built development clients |
| 20:52:36 | captain_proton | i was thinking of hosting (2) myself - creating a way for developers to release intermediate clients and have them all available in one place |
| 20:52:43 | captain_proton | thoughts? |
| 21:00:29 | BZFlag | 2 can get uploaded to a test directory under the bzflag.org web site. |
| 21:00:43 | BZFlag | 1 sounds like a good idea. |
| 21:01:08 | BZFlag | I'd like to get a net protocol doc started first and that will be the major change in 1.8 |
| 21:01:38 | BZFlag | that could be in cvs I suppose then we can just add a link to the cvsweb version on the site. |
| 21:03:28 | captain_proton | well the thing is people don't know about the test directory |
| 21:03:37 | captain_proton | perhaps if we redid the web site |
| 21:03:53 | captain_proton | right now its both ugly AND hard to navigate |
| 21:07:00 | captain_proton | and if you just have a bunch of clients sitting in a directory whos to know what each one does? |
| 21:07:12 | captain_proton | it would be nice to have some sort of description of the features of each |
| 21:10:35 | BZFlag | sounds great. |
| 21:11:17 | BZFlag | I'm not at all emotionally attached to the current web site. |
| 21:11:48 | BZFlag | I'd prefer to put a web site in cvs and then folks can hack the site and we can still revert things. |
| 21:12:01 | captain_proton | damn you're such a geek |
| 21:12:30 | BZFlag | I'd like to keep headers etc broken out, so that those things can effect the whole site. |
| 21:12:57 | captain_proton | considers whether to break out a new php document class or use SSI |
| 21:13:38 | captain_proton | i think SSI for now - if ever we want to do a database its easy enough to convert |
| 21:13:57 | captain_proton | what type of music do you like again? |
| 21:15:41 | captain_proton | fires up apache and prepares to whip-out some HTML-fu |
| 21:18:23 | BZFlag | there is a wiki up there, we could do the whole site as a wiki. |
| 21:18:31 | BZFlag | it's worked well on TuxScreen.net |
| 21:18:47 | captain_proton | ugh |
| 21:18:52 | BZFlag | I'd like to be able to lock some pages though and tuxscreen.net version can't |
| 21:18:58 | BZFlag | not a wiki fan? |
| 21:19:11 | captain_proton | BZFlag: wiki's are good for developers to share info |
| 21:19:23 | BZFlag | and for users to make fan pages etc. |
| 21:19:33 | captain_proton | but i think the site should make it easy for people who just want to play a game to get it |
| 21:19:44 | captain_proton | and convince people who aren't sure to download it |
| 21:19:44 | BZFlag | agreed. |
| 21:20:03 | BZFlag | but the entry wiki pages could do that, no? |
| 21:20:19 | captain_proton | yeah, i guess |
| 21:20:36 | captain_proton | i don't like it though |
| 21:20:47 | captain_proton | it'd be nice to have a separate developer site |
| 21:20:52 | captain_proton | and THAT could be all wiki |
| 21:20:55 | BZFlag | I'm just looking for a way to enable easier participation from anyone that wants to contribute. |
| 21:21:10 | captain_proton | the wiki isn't popular, nobody uses it |
| 21:21:24 | captain_proton | expanding it to enclose the rest of the site won't help that |
| 21:21:30 | BZFlag | agreed but then as you mention the whole site needs a facelift. |
| 21:22:10 | captain_proton | the best way to enable easier participation is to have a list of jobs that need to be done, who is working on what stuff, lists of people to contact, etc |
| 21:22:36 | captain_proton | which means documenting the code like all hell |
| 21:22:58 | captain_proton | it would be great to include deoxygen comment tags in all the classes and have a complete class heirarchy online |
| 21:23:49 | BZFlag | perhaps, yes. |
| 21:25:41 | captain_proton | actually i'm beginning to think php would be good...we can use a database for a list of intermediate clients |
| 21:26:22 | BZFlag | nod |
| 21:28:53 | captain_proton | i can do some magic things with php... |
| 21:29:57 | BZFlag | you have ssh access, feel free to start on a new site. leave the old one up and put the new one under /new of something. |
| 21:30:20 | BZFlag | er or something. then we can switch over when we are happy with it. |
| 21:30:28 | captain_proton | i'm gonna do it locally first - still at home & 56k sux0rz |
| 21:30:34 | BZFlag | as you have seen, the old site does not change much at all. |
| 21:30:48 | captain_proton | i don't think i've *ever* seen it change |
| 21:31:00 | BZFlag | no problem. feel free to add a cvs module for it ;-) |
| 21:31:28 | BZFlag | the news changes, but I don't do it often. it still says 1.7e2 is current. =( |
| 21:32:00 | captain_proton | news can be in the db too |
| 21:32:14 | captain_proton | i can reimplement my news class for mysql |
| 21:32:34 | captain_proton | has a nice set of php scripts for adding news & stuff |
| 21:34:58 | BZFlag | no frames. no required java script. |
| 21:35:17 | BZFlag | no info in flash that's not elsewhere in text. |
| 21:35:26 | BZFlag | other than that, go for it. |
| 21:35:38 | captain_proton | i'm just doing html and css |
| 21:35:44 | BZFlag | great |
| 21:35:46 | captain_proton | no javascript, no java, no flash, no frame |
| 21:35:47 | captain_proton | s |
| 21:35:57 | captain_proton | i will do some table-fu though :) |
| 21:35:59 | BZFlag | great. |
| 21:36:30 | captain_proton | bzflag needs a better logo :/ |
| 21:37:03 | BZFlag | feel free. ;-) |
| 21:37:42 | captain_proton | boo |
| 21:37:47 | BZFlag | boo? |
| 21:37:58 | captain_proton | you and your offers |
| 21:38:07 | captain_proton | 'feel free' and 'patches welcome' |
| 21:38:09 | captain_proton | i say boo |
| 21:42:08 | BZFlag | ok, how's this? "I'll get to it Real Soon Now." better? |
| 21:42:18 | captain_proton | hahaha |
| 21:42:25 | captain_proton | somewhat |
| 21:44:52 | captain_proton | you never answered my music question |
| 21:45:38 | captain_proton | i just came up with a kickass idea |
| 21:45:41 | captain_proton | have a logo contest! |
| 21:49:41 | BZFlag | music question? |
| 21:50:05 | BZFlag | ahh... clasic rock. |
| 21:50:11 | BZFlag | er classic. |
| 21:50:40 | BZFlag | floyd / the division bell / is on now. |
| 21:51:27 | BZFlag | and the prize for the contest? a free copy of bzflag? ;-) |
| 21:51:40 | BZFlag | the banner add "contest" got one entry. |
| 22:34:57 | captain_proton | BZFlag: still here? |
| 22:51:28 | captain_proton | http://216.241.172.187/bzflag/ |
| 22:51:34 | captain_proton | thats the template |
| 23:00:45 | captain_proton | purdy? |
| 23:38:07 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 06:01:50) |
| 23:38:23 | captain_proton | wb vogon_jeltz |
| 23:38:27 | vogon_jeltz | hi :) |
| 23:38:42 | captain_proton | check that url ;) |
| 23:39:09 | vogon_jeltz | l33t design, man |
| 23:39:29 | captain_proton | i'm just afraid we'll have to put the sf logo on it somewhere |
| 23:39:34 | captain_proton | which could be a problem =P |
| 23:39:51 | vogon_jeltz | last time I checked, bzflag.org wasn't hosted on SourceForge... :) |
| 23:40:14 | captain_proton | uhm... |
| 23:40:28 | vogon_jeltz | and if you're that worried about that, I might be able to ask my friend icculus for (CVS|BugZilla|Web) space on his server, icculus.org |
| 23:40:38 | captain_proton | nonono |
| 23:40:47 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: they only ask that you add the SF logo to your homepage if they host your webspace |
| 23:41:00 | captain_proton | and i believe they actually *do* host bzflag.org |
| 23:41:07 | vogon_jeltz | hmm |
| 23:41:33 | captain_proton | care to help db it up? |
| 23:41:38 | vogon_jeltz | meh |
| 23:41:52 | captain_proton | i've never done mysql |
| 23:42:00 | vogon_jeltz | oop, they do host on SF :) |
| 23:42:21 | vogon_jeltz | neither have I |
| 23:42:42 | vogon_jeltz | never done anything with SQL :P |
| 23:46:18 | captain_proton | argh stupid ugly logo |
| 23:47:03 | captain_proton | they just *had* to put a black border around it :P |
| 23:50:48 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 23:52:12 | captain_proton | ahh...starting to look a little better now... |
| 23:53:56 | captain_proton | does linuxgames have a white logo? |
| 23:54:38 | vogon_jeltz | not sure |
| 23:54:54 | captain_proton | care to look? i'm going to look for a cleaner mesa logo |
| 23:55:28 | vogon_jeltz | nah, AFAICT, it's only the green-backgrounded one |
| 23:55:52 | captain_proton | green? |
| 23:56:23 | vogon_jeltz | yeh |
| 23:56:32 | vogon_jeltz | it's that darkish-greeny color |
| 23:56:45 | vogon_jeltz | like forest green but a bit lighter |
| 23:57:20 | captain_proton | odd...the existing page has a bluish one |
| 23:57:46 | vogon_jeltz | then your monitor is pucknutted |
| 23:58:57 | vogon_jeltz | according to The GIMP, it's 24R/51G/60B, so we're both right :) |
| 23:59:14 | captain_proton | i believe 60 is higher than 51 |
