| 00:52:43 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 12:19:31) |
| 00:52:47 | captain_proton | wb |
| 00:56:59 | iLLf8d | hey |
| 00:57:01 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 00:57:13 | iLLf8d | we should start a players club still |
| 00:57:24 | iLLf8d | I was just playing with a field of good people on decks |
| 00:57:26 | iLLf8d | its much more fun |
| 00:57:48 | iLLf8d | have a private field of advanced players |
| 00:57:56 | iLLf8d | oh captain_proton skipp was in |
| 00:58:06 | iLLf8d | wanted to talk to you |
| 00:59:08 | iLLf8d | I told him i'd pass along the message |
| 01:22:27 | theJacques | iLLf8d: yes decks with good honest players ROCKS |
| 01:31:29 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 03:43:35 | iLLf8d | no bills on chardonay |
| 03:51:03 | | It's great to be back. I missed this place! |
| 03:51:03 | captain_proton | ibot, wb |
| 04:16:11 | | :) |
| 04:16:11 | theJacques | ibot: botsnack |
| 04:31:06 | scanline | is away: homework |
| 04:49:52 | theJacques | hi iLLf8d |
| 05:14:05 | scanline | is back (gone 00:42:58) |
| 05:14:30 | captain_proton | wb |
| 05:14:42 | captain_proton | argg where is my lab partner |
| 05:39:04 | iLLf8d | lo |
| 05:39:05 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 05:39:12 | iLLf8d | cable hiccuped huh |
| 05:39:13 | captain_proton | grr |
| 05:39:17 | captain_proton | we have a lab due tomorrow |
| 05:39:25 | captain_proton | and its 10:40 already |
| 05:39:25 | iLLf8d | nice |
| 05:39:26 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 05:39:28 | captain_proton | and he's nowhere to be found |
| 05:39:43 | iLLf8d | that means you get to float him |
| 05:39:46 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 05:40:14 | captain_proton | woo he just got back |
| 05:40:15 | iLLf8d | he's not on decks |
| 05:40:22 | captain_proton | heh |
| 06:13:26 | iLLf8d | nuum its me Tank btw |
| 06:13:28 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 06:13:32 | nuum | yo |
| 06:13:33 | iLLf8d | this is my irc nick |
| 06:13:41 | nuum | normally i'm... |
| 06:14:14 | blaboo | so i change the font name=fixed size=9b |
| 06:14:30 | blaboo | is this xml? |
| 06:14:51 | iLLf8d | ok |
| 06:14:58 | iLLf8d | yeah |
| 06:15:26 | blaboo | wicked customizable, how nice! i'll have to learn this |
| 06:15:37 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 06:15:51 | blaboo | helluva lot easier than playing with the source |
| 06:16:10 | iLLf8d | just backup the original heh |
| 06:16:11 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 06:16:18 | iLLf8d | cooooooooooool |
| 06:16:27 | iLLf8d | gvim has xml highlighting heh |
| 06:16:28 | iLLf8d | nice |
| 06:16:29 | blaboo | i'm gonna up my radar |
| 06:16:41 | blaboo | i'll have to move to gvim (vi right now) |
| 06:17:00 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 06:17:07 | iLLf8d | I wonder if most of those are commands too |
| 06:17:10 | iLLf8d | try uhm |
| 06:17:11 | blaboo | sec, gonna try this |
| 06:17:19 | blaboo | yeah? |
| 06:17:21 | iLLf8d | toggle displaysplit-test |
| 06:17:32 | iLLf8d | lemme try a few |
| 06:17:45 | blaboo | huge radar! wicked! i love flag! |
| 06:18:12 | iLLf8d | no hmm |
| 06:18:16 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 06:18:19 | iLLf8d | whatdya change |
| 06:18:26 | iLLf8d | can you paste to a query window? |
| 06:18:44 | blaboo | um just radar size |
| 06:18:46 | iLLf8d | try uhm |
| 06:18:49 | iLLf8d | toggle split-test |
| 06:18:54 | blaboo | i tried toggle displaysplit-test |
| 06:18:54 | iLLf8d | just to see what happnes |
| 06:18:59 | iLLf8d | theres a ton of display commands |
| 06:19:01 | blaboo | just split-test? |
| 06:19:06 | iLLf8d | try w/out the diplay part |
| 06:20:02 | iLLf8d | try displayFlagHelp |
| 06:20:05 | iLLf8d | displayConsole |
| 06:20:07 | iLLf8d | try uhm |
| 06:20:09 | blaboo | anyone know bitchX? |
| 06:20:16 | iLLf8d | display BasicConsole |
| 06:20:22 | iLLf8d | I don't heh |
| 06:20:28 | iLLf8d | oh thats how y ou're doing it heh |
| 06:20:31 | blaboo | any way to run flag in a window w/o fullscreen |
| 06:20:54 | iLLf8d | yeah |
| 06:20:57 | iLLf8d | -window I think |
| 06:21:07 | iLLf8d | problem is your brightness |
| 06:21:12 | blaboo | hmmm |
| 06:21:12 | iLLf8d | -window I think |
| 06:21:18 | blaboo | i hate bitchx |
| 06:22:01 | blaboo | no, it doesn't do it like that |
| 06:22:11 | MrApathyCream | bzflag -geometry 640x480 |
| 06:22:26 | blaboo | but will it run in a window, not fullscreen? |
| 06:22:34 | MrApathyCream | on win32 it does |
| 06:22:41 | MrApathyCream | dunno about linux |
| 06:22:43 | blaboo | whats win32? |
| 06:22:46 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 06:23:23 | blaboo | i imagine displayBasicConsole would just give you that gay console from 1.7 |
| 06:23:28 | iLLf8d | ohhhhhhhhhhh yes! |
| 06:23:28 | iLLf8d | nheh |
| 06:23:33 | blaboo | or maybe not |
| 06:23:35 | blaboo | ?? |
| 06:23:43 | iLLf8d | work in a window and I don't think the brightness is blown out either =) |
| 06:23:54 | iLLf8d | ./bzflag -geometry 800x600 |
| 06:23:59 | blaboo | i'll try it |
| 06:24:09 | blaboo | hope this don't crash my machine |
| 06:24:22 | iLLf8d | adds in a gaming workspace heh |
| 06:25:24 | blaboo | werd, blackbox i hope ;) |
| 06:25:39 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 06:25:42 | iLLf8d | i'm in fluxbox |
| 06:25:50 | iLLf8d | should work for you considering its mostly blackbox |
| 06:25:57 | iLLf8d | blows out the one workspaces brightness a bit |
| 06:26:03 | iLLf8d | but not as bad as the old one did |
| 06:26:11 | blaboo | yeah i get funny brightness in flag |
| 06:26:21 | iLLf8d | I use hotkeys to switch back and forth |
| 06:26:24 | iLLf8d | nthis rocks now |
| 06:26:25 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 06:26:34 | blaboo | free-fuse-stereo? |
| 06:26:40 | iLLf8d | this is worth it alone |
| 06:26:50 | iLLf8d | I hated to have full screen no x access before |
| 06:27:05 | iLLf8d | the brightness was outta control in the old one |
| 06:27:48 | blaboo | well |
| 06:28:03 | iLLf8d | lol |
| 06:28:08 | iLLf8d | I changed the fov |
| 06:28:13 | blaboo | i still think that they should get rid of the mouse cursor |
| 06:28:15 | iLLf8d | my rearview is upsidedown heh |
| 06:28:18 | blaboo | heh |
| 06:28:40 | blaboo | ild |
| 06:28:40 | blaboo | wild |
| 06:31:35 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 06:41:16 | iLLf8d | much better |
| 06:41:21 | iLLf8d | I got it so its not distorted |
| 06:41:33 | blaboo | the rearview? |
| 06:47:41 | blaboo | guys, this is wicked, upercustum |
| 06:58:27 | captain_proton | returns |
| 06:59:24 | captain_proton | blaboo: displayBasicConsole just does a flat grey console in game (toggled by `) |
| 06:59:47 | blaboo | proton this is wicked |
| 06:59:59 | captain_proton | blaboo == nuum? |
| 07:00:02 | blaboo | yeah |
| 07:00:13 | blaboo | i've got side views! |
| 07:00:17 | captain_proton | heh |
| 07:00:24 | blaboo | flag owns |
| 07:01:08 | blaboo | you know anything about bitchX proton? |
| 07:01:22 | captain_proton | other than the fact that its a lame-ass client? no |
| 07:01:23 | captain_proton | ;) |
| 07:01:29 | blaboo | so true |
| 07:01:32 | blaboo | what should i be using? |
| 07:01:34 | captain_proton | ircii |
| 07:01:38 | captain_proton | or irssi |
| 07:01:55 | blaboo | i've got my radar right in the middle of my view |
| 07:02:21 | captain_proton | haha |
| 07:02:24 | blaboo | no wait, thats my rearview mirror right in the middle of my view |
| 07:02:29 | captain_proton | heh |
| 07:02:49 | blaboo | so what does a guy gotta do to become a developer for this? |
| 07:03:05 | captain_proton | i've got a score box that pops up when the s key is held down, and its over a dark background (semi-transparent) |
| 07:03:09 | captain_proton | um |
| 07:03:13 | captain_proton | start writing code? ;) |
| 07:03:27 | captain_proton | oh |
| 07:03:28 | blaboo | werd, can i write electromagnetic wind/fog/rain? |
| 07:03:35 | captain_proton | another requirement is to hang out here ;) |
| 07:03:37 | captain_proton | well... |
| 07:03:40 | captain_proton | weather is my project |
| 07:03:45 | blaboo | too late! |
| 07:04:00 | blaboo | ;) |
| 07:04:04 | captain_proton | too late? |
| 07:04:25 | captain_proton | ha |
| 07:04:29 | blaboo | how do you get the scorebox like that? |
| 07:04:35 | captain_proton | hack around with the data files |
| 07:04:40 | captain_proton | i can send you my stuff if you like |
| 07:04:42 | blaboo | naw, i got plenty of work for the summer |
| 07:04:49 | blaboo | please do |
| 07:04:52 | captain_proton | ok |
| 07:05:06 | captain_proton | i'll send you the 2 data files plus you need to add a line to your .bzflag18 |
| 07:05:14 | blaboo | i would like to do a little interface work for getting into the game, etc |
| 07:05:16 | captain_proton | duplicate the 's' line that toggles displayScore |
| 07:05:21 | captain_proton | and make it toggle on up too |
| 07:06:43 | blaboo | GrabCursor? |
| 07:07:00 | blaboo | can i finally get rid of that cursor? |
| 07:07:13 | captain_proton | i think its always been possible to get rid of it |
| 07:07:24 | blaboo | maybe i should look at the config files one day |
| 07:07:37 | blaboo | where to submit bugs? ideas? |
| 07:07:46 | captain_proton | um |
| 07:08:08 | captain_proton | we're not really using the sf bug submission system for development code |
| 07:08:13 | captain_proton | just come here and bitch at one of us |
| 07:08:23 | blaboo | may i submit patches to you? |
| 07:08:31 | captain_proton | sure |
| 07:08:38 | blaboo | how bout a delay so the thing doesn't eat all my cpu? |
| 07:08:55 | captain_proton | that will happen |
| 07:09:04 | captain_proton | we're going to throttle framerate to display sync |
| 07:09:15 | blaboo | that will look better |
| 07:09:19 | captain_proton | well... |
| 07:09:22 | captain_proton | it will look the same |
| 07:09:26 | captain_proton | but it won't eat up all the cpu |
| 07:09:41 | blaboo | so that would be 80fps or so, instead of the 144 its using now? |
| 07:09:46 | captain_proton | something like that |
| 07:09:56 | blaboo | damn proton, can i work on the ai? |
| 07:10:36 | captain_proton | what ai? |
| 07:10:40 | blaboo | exactly |
| 07:11:05 | Si\iKL | hmm |
| 07:11:06 | Si\iKL | stupidass connection |
| 07:11:23 | iLLf8d | sheesh |
| 07:11:32 | iLLf8d | stupidass connection |
| 07:11:35 | captain_proton | bots have been pulled out - we're thinking of adding some sort of API to write your own but its just ideas |
| 07:11:42 | iLLf8d | cap is there a way to change the altitude of the view |
| 07:11:48 | iLLf8d | to more of a top down view |
| 07:11:54 | captain_proton | probably |
| 07:12:09 | captain_proton | crs knows the view stuff better than I |
| 07:12:10 | blaboo | i see |
| 07:12:17 | blaboo | cap, you a cpsc major? |
| 07:12:22 | blaboo | i mean, what do you do all day? |
| 07:13:43 | captain_proton | blaboo: comp sci & music |
| 07:13:50 | blaboo | oh, thats the life |
| 07:14:22 | blaboo | 2nd year? 3rd? |
| 07:16:13 | blaboo | for a compsci major you sure can't type |
| 07:16:40 | captain_proton | can't type? |
| 07:16:47 | captain_proton | technically 1st year |
| 07:16:51 | blaboo | or just can't read, yer taking forever |
| 07:16:56 | captain_proton | but i'm 2nd semester sophomore |
| 07:17:04 | captain_proton | blaboo: its called multitasking |
| 07:17:22 | blaboo | well i don't know who wrote yer scheduler, but the sharing ain't fair |
| 07:17:56 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 07:17:59 | blaboo | what am i to do with border.bzg? |
| 07:18:13 | iLLf8d | I changed the fovy to -4 and its upsidedown again |
| 07:20:15 | captain_proton | blaboo: just throw it in the data directory |
| 07:20:31 | blaboo | getting: cannot open model `scorebackground.bzg' |
| 07:20:36 | captain_proton | oh blah |
| 07:20:39 | captain_proton | hang a sec |
| 07:20:40 | blaboo | boo! |
| 07:21:56 | blaboo | looks very nice |
| 07:22:31 | blaboo | you guys gonna get it so that i can cancel a connect? |
| 07:22:40 | blaboo | i'm gonna sit here all day and bitch |
| 07:23:10 | blaboo | werd, encoded the blending mode right into the config file! |
| 07:23:16 | blaboo | thats cute! |
| 07:23:28 | captain_proton | heh |
| 07:23:46 | blaboo | proton don't even know what a data structure is and he can code like the best of em |
| 07:25:06 | captain_proton | don't even know what a data structure is? |
| 07:25:09 | captain_proton | kicks blaboo |
| 07:25:33 | blaboo | proton, you boss |
| 07:26:12 | blaboo | but i don't know how you can play with such a tiny radar |
| 07:26:24 | captain_proton | bin/bzgview data/particles-test.bzg |
| 07:26:32 | captain_proton | its not tiny... |
| 07:26:35 | captain_proton | what resolution are you at? |
| 07:26:47 | iLLf8d | the background menu is skinnable |
| 07:26:52 | iLLf8d | I can see that in that file |
| 07:26:55 | blaboo | 1024x864? err, something like that |
| 07:27:05 | iLLf8d | <model filename="menu.bzg" /> |
| 07:27:19 | captain_proton | all of the interface is defined through config files |
| 07:27:21 | captain_proton | crs' work |
| 07:27:31 | blaboo | crs? |
| 07:27:36 | captain_proton | chris schoeneman |
| 07:27:46 | blaboo | i'm impressed |
| 07:29:01 | blaboo | he play? |
| 07:29:04 | blaboo | have a nick? |
| 07:29:32 | blaboo | and what are these particles-test.bzg? |
| 07:30:00 | captain_proton | blaboo: my particle system ;) |
| 07:30:10 | captain_proton | blaboo: he plays every once in a while - goes by 'badger' |
| 07:30:41 | blaboo | captain proton, set course for the punami system, warp 8. engage your particle system now. |
| 07:33:28 | blaboo | may i have multiple commands in my .bzflag18? like, toggle displayConsole; toggle displayBigConsole? |
| 07:34:11 | blaboo | anyway, off to read |
| 07:34:17 | blaboo | good night proton. engage! |
| 07:43:40 | captain_proton | scanline: awake? |
| 07:43:53 | scanline | yep |
| 07:44:17 | captain_proton | where did you get that LCD that you use as a clock? |
| 07:44:54 | scanline | some surplus place.. IIRC they went out of business |
| 07:45:02 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 07:45:12 | captain_proton | you know the manufacturer/model ? |
| 07:46:04 | scanline | no.. but any HD44780-compatible should do |
| 07:59:35 | captain_proton | digi-key rocks my world |
| 08:06:14 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 08:12:15 | captain_proton | MrApathyCream! |
| 08:20:35 | MrApathyCream | hey |
| 08:25:40 | scanline | wget's 3 web sites full of NES and SNES games |
| 08:26:15 | iLLf8d | lo Ap |
| 08:26:37 | iLLf8d | scanline: urls? |
| 08:26:58 | scanline | www.emulamaster.com/archivos/roms/nintendo/ |
| 08:27:05 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:27:07 | scanline | www.emulamaster.com/archivos/roms/snes/ |
| 08:27:19 | scanline | http://63.226.57.197/theromarchive/ |
| 08:27:39 | iLLf8d | my gf is tell me when you finish so I don't take the bandwidth |
| 08:27:39 | scanline | making classic gaming CDs for my dreamcast :) |
| 08:27:44 | iLLf8d | shit |
| 08:27:45 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:27:51 | iLLf8d | I started to say one thing then switched |
| 08:27:56 | iLLf8d | tell me when you're done and i'll start |
| 08:28:02 | scanline | mmmkay |
| 08:28:08 | scanline | wget --mirror is fun |
| 08:28:14 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 08:28:41 | iLLf8d | my gf is reading me some note from a cracker board where the guy is complaining that anon pub ftps he's scammed often have small drives and is bitchin cause his illegal sites top out at 350Megs often |
| 08:28:42 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 08:28:54 | captain_proton | haha iLLf8d |
| 08:29:03 | captain_proton | we get some doozies on AO |
| 08:29:19 | iLLf8d | he says hes starts to uploads isos and it stops |
| 08:29:26 | iLLf8d | he's ranting about cheapass nt owners |
| 08:29:27 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 08:29:44 | captain_proton | scanline: i thought you said it was someone else's dreamcast? |
| 08:29:53 | scanline | i got my own |
| 08:30:02 | iLLf8d | oo how do you like dreamcast? |
| 08:30:09 | captain_proton | why do i get the feeling your parents are rich? |
| 08:30:11 | iLLf8d | I got playstation 1 but don't play it often |
| 08:30:23 | scanline | captain_proton: no, i made a lot of money programming |
| 08:30:39 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 08:30:47 | scanline | like.. $7000 working on PicoGUI |
| 08:30:51 | captain_proton | there's a bunch of hardware i want to get but not enough $$ atm |
| 08:31:00 | captain_proton | mostly (fear) x86 =) |
| 08:31:09 | scanline | :p |
| 08:31:21 | captain_proton | i want to build myself a nice 2U fileserver |
| 08:31:33 | captain_proton | though i was considering getting one of the new sun blade's |
| 08:31:40 | scanline | I got the dreamcast because i don't have anything SuperH yet.. but it has some nice chips on it just begging for drivers to be written |
| 08:31:52 | scanline | and of course it's great for running emulators |
| 08:32:08 | captain_proton | SuperH? |
| 08:32:18 | scanline | made by Hitachi |
| 08:32:23 | scanline | dreamcast has a 200mhz SH4 |
| 08:32:24 | captain_proton | ah |
| 08:32:43 | iLLf8d | suck |
| 08:32:45 | scanline | but most of the power is in the PowerVR2 graphics chip, which doesn't have good linux drivers yet |
| 08:32:57 | scanline | that's a good CPU for a gaming console! |
| 08:33:19 | scanline | you'd be amazed what a gameboy could accomplish with a 4mhz Z80 and custom graphics chip |
| 08:34:28 | captain_proton | works up the courage to start doing more asm dumpage |
| 08:35:58 | captain_proton | this is so gross but its actually kinda fun =| |
| 08:36:07 | scanline | more x86 asm? |
| 08:36:29 | scanline | would probably port bzflag to dreamcast if he wrote 3D drivers |
| 08:36:50 | captain_proton | yeah... |
| 08:36:58 | captain_proton | helping some dood analyze a new virus |
| 08:37:11 | scanline | hehe.. disassembling can be fun |
| 08:37:28 | captain_proton | its funny |
| 08:37:46 | scanline | aren't all viruses written in MS word now? ;) |
| 08:38:02 | captain_proton | vbscript mostly |
| 08:42:49 | captain_proton | this one is more advanced than either of the others i've seen |
| 08:44:05 | captain_proton | wanders off to shower |
| 08:59:48 | vogon_jeltz | ibot, x fr en ventre |
| 08:59:49 | | vogon_jeltz: belly |
| 09:06:00 | captain_proton | returns |
| 09:06:18 | vogon_jeltz | yo |
| 09:06:47 | vogon_jeltz | Jesus-fucking-Christ, this is an awful headache |
| 09:06:57 | captain_proton | caffeine my friend |
| 09:16:10 | captain_proton | vogon_jeltz: how goes SDL? ;) |
| 09:18:54 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 09:19:01 | captain_proton | wonders if theres a new enterprise yet |
| 09:19:20 | vogon_jeltz | captain_proton: ya know, I could probably grab a tent stake, fly down to Colorado, and ram it through your head in one motion, and I wouldn't really care... |
| 09:19:54 | vogon_jeltz | in short, I am not currently a person to be trifled with |
| 09:19:58 | captain_proton | wow... |
| 09:20:02 | captain_proton | must be some headache |
| 09:20:08 | vogon_jeltz | yes... yes, it is |
| 09:21:40 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 09:21:44 | captain_proton | looks like it airs tomorrow |
| 11:28:50 | scanline | is away: ZzZzZzzzzzz... |
| 11:47:20 | vogon_jeltz | is away: sleep |
| 13:18:03 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 01:30:43) |
| 17:45:54 | captain_proton | wonders where crs is |
| 17:57:09 | captain_proton | wb vogon_jeltz |
| 17:57:21 | vogon_jeltz | yo |
| 17:58:43 | vogon_jeltz | is away: Mighty Morphin Shower Rangers, energize! |
| 18:19:19 | vogon_jeltz | is back (gone 00:20:35) |
| 18:21:09 | captain_proton | wb |
| 18:21:14 | vogon_jeltz | thx |
| 18:21:15 | captain_proton | mwahahaha |
| 18:21:33 | captain_proton | a friend and I are turning a program we wrote ages ago into an xscreensaver hack |
| 18:21:49 | vogon_jeltz | what, have you h4xx0r3d m| b0x 700 g37 m4h SDL 50ur(3?!? |
| 18:22:12 | captain_proton | ---> Welcome to the USS Poubelle main computer. <--- |
| 18:22:12 | captain_proton | MICROSOFT WINDOWS Starfleet Edition, (C) 2391 MS Corp |
| 18:22:30 | captain_proton | General Ship Status: |
| 18:22:30 | captain_proton | Damage Control: Blown out of the universe |
| 18:22:30 | captain_proton | Computer: Likes cheese |
| 18:22:30 | captain_proton | Cheese Crumpet Dispensers: N/A |
| 18:22:30 | captain_proton | Automatic Doors: N/A |
| 18:22:46 | captain_proton | its a very frightening thing |
| 18:22:47 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 18:23:26 | captain_proton | >> Critical Internal Error: The holodeck is being harrassed by Q. |
| 18:23:53 | captain_proton | >> Go to Yellow Alert! Somebody's attempting to sell our surplus dog food to the Ferengi. |
| 18:24:23 | captain_proton | >> WARNING!!! The phasers are going to be purchased by Bob Dole. |
| 18:24:23 | captain_proton | >> Go to Yellow Alert! The Vulcans are picketing outside the bridge. |
| 18:24:44 | captain_proton | it will scare the crap outta you |
| 18:24:58 | vogon_jeltz | heh |
| 18:25:45 | captain_proton | >> Status Report: Somebody's in dire need of upgrading - upgrade now to MS appliance OS 2388, only $1423.41! |
| 18:25:45 | captain_proton | >> Network Message: The 2 AA batteries that power the ship are in bad shape. |
| 18:26:30 | captain_proton | the strange thing is this: |
| 18:26:40 | captain_proton | some of the messages it spews actually make sense in the star trek context |
| 18:27:02 | captain_proton | >> Critical Internal Error: The Klingons are attempting to take over the galaxy. |
| 18:55:59 | vogon_jeltz | is away: sl33p |
| 19:55:33 | lupinator | abend |
| 20:36:44 | FantaZee | anyone here ? |
| 20:53:36 | scanline | is back (gone 09:24:48) |
| 21:22:19 | scanline | is away: going postal... err, going to the post office... |
| 21:33:43 | crs23 | hey tim |
| 21:50:13 | captain_proton | comes back |
| 21:50:44 | crs23 | hi captain |
| 21:50:54 | captain_proton | hello |
| 21:50:59 | captain_proton | what changes did you make to particle systems? |
| 21:51:21 | crs23 | i believe i fixed the transformation problems |
| 21:53:39 | crs23 | the particle quads are now created so that, when transformed by the model transform, they happen to exactly face the viewer |
| 21:54:16 | captain_proton | nifty |
| 21:54:29 | crs23 | this might cause some texturing weirdness due to perspective but we can deal with that later |
| 21:54:43 | captain_proton | i haven't even ventured into texturing |
| 21:55:45 | crs23 | btw, i think you should remove the location field from particle systems. they should use 0,0,0 as the location and let transform nodes do the translation. |
| 21:56:15 | captain_proton | probably |
| 21:57:31 | crs23 | you may need an attraction location though (in the particle system's coordinate space) |
| 21:59:31 | captain_proton | also a good idea... |
| 22:01:00 | captain_proton | it'd be nice to have dynamic lighting working |
| 22:03:27 | crs23 | true. i'm busy on collision stuff currently. |
| 22:03:28 | captain_proton | real collision detection? |
| 22:03:28 | crs23 | yes |
| 22:04:20 | captain_proton | wheee |
| 22:05:36 | crs23 | :-) i dunno how long this'll take me. i'm within a day or two of testing 3D frictionless boxes. |
| 22:05:52 | crs23 | the hard part is making it robust |
| 22:05:57 | captain_proton | true |
| 22:06:16 | captain_proton | what needs work right now? (i'm taking a break from particles) |
| 22:06:28 | crs23 | hmm... |
| 22:07:33 | crs23 | i'd like to see command history and command completion |
| 22:07:58 | crs23 | also better editing features in the edit control (like getting left/right arrow keys to work) |
| 22:08:38 | crs23 | command completion would be harder than the other two. |
| 22:09:17 | crs23 | the edit controls also don't scroll horizontally |
| 22:09:37 | crs23 | the SGI format should be replaced by PNG |
| 22:10:15 | captain_proton | edit controls? |
| 22:10:44 | crs23 | class MenuEdit (in MenuControls.cxx) |
| 22:10:58 | crs23 | used for stuff like entering your callsign |
| 22:11:12 | crs23 | also the console edit field |
| 22:11:50 | crs23 | the console edit field is actually different but should act the same |
| 22:12:00 | crs23 | it's in MessageBuffer.cxx |
| 22:12:16 | captain_proton | Question 21: How do you "turn on UDP?" |
| 22:12:16 | captain_proton | a) Blow in her ear and say something sweet. |
| 22:12:16 | captain_proton | b) Send her flowers. |
| 22:12:16 | captain_proton | c) Go to the startup screen of BZFlag (ESC if playing already), choose OPTIONS and then go to the UDP line and make sure it says ON. |
| 22:12:17 | captain_proton | d) Wrap tinfoil around your head, hold onto a set of TV "rabbit ears" then say "Engage!" |
| 22:12:19 | captain_proton | e) None of the above. |
| 22:12:21 | captain_proton | f) Don't know |
| 22:14:43 | captain_proton | how is the console message buffer different from the messages buffer? |
| 22:16:14 | crs23 | they're different instances of the same class. the messages are for important game-play messages. the console is the console and also reports everything the messages buffer does. |
| 22:16:26 | captain_proton | hrm |
| 22:16:28 | crs23 | ...in addition to other stuff |
| 22:16:42 | captain_proton | i'd like the player messages to be colored in the console but it wasn't immediately obvious to me why they weren't |
| 22:17:58 | crs23 | simple: there's a callback when the message buffer adds a message. this callback adds the message to the console but drops the color. see onMessageCB in bzflag.cxx. |
| 22:19:36 | captain_proton | heh |
| 22:22:39 | captain_proton | why did you have it drop color? |
| 22:24:01 | crs23 | hmm, i don't remember |
| 22:24:18 | crs23 | add it back if you like |
| 22:24:24 | captain_proton | already have |
| 22:24:39 | captain_proton | its much easier to go back and check conversations this way =) |
| 22:31:27 | Valoche | hi, there |
| 22:31:41 | captain_proton | hey Valoche |
| 22:31:55 | Valoche | CTF site almost finished :-) |
| 22:32:17 | Valoche | I still have a problem with sessions: sometimes they work, sometimes I have to refresh the pages continuously... weird |
| 22:32:44 | BZFlag | would be nice to have multiple colors per line. |
| 22:32:54 | BZFlag | perhaps ansi color codes? |
| 22:33:12 | captain_proton | Valoche: i noticed that... |
| 22:33:23 | BZFlag | then they are just a line of text (with codes) and the display either renders the color changes or discards them. |
| 22:33:29 | Valoche | CP: it works seamlessly on my lan :/ |
| 22:33:35 | captain_proton | BZFlag: ansi shouldn't have too much trouble |
| 22:34:02 | BZFlag | personally I'd like the nick to be colored and the msg uncolored. |
| 22:34:49 | BZFlag | ie: 4BZFlag1 killed 6captain_proton1 with a laser. |
| 22:35:00 | captain_proton | argg black |
| 22:35:13 | BZFlag | black? |
| 22:35:14 | Valoche | hey, I once wrote a patch for this on 1.7 (never posted it though... it made the game jerky on low-end systems) |
| 22:35:24 | crs23 | hmm. if we tag the components of a message we could allow user customization. i could suppress colors on a message and tim could allow them. |
| 22:35:39 | BZFlag | exactly. |
| 22:36:31 | crs23 | what i mean is, forget ansi color codes and use XML markup. <redteam></redteam> would delimit something that should be colored red. the config would actually supply the color. |
| 22:37:07 | BZFlag | That would be fine with me. then you could show: BZFlag (red team) killed captain_proton (purple team) with a laser. |
| 22:37:36 | BZFlag | or nothing at all for colors, as you like. |
| 22:38:02 | crs23 | nice. i hadn't thought it through that far. |
| 22:38:32 | BZFlag | though, the net protocol would not include ansi colors etc, so it's really the client display code creating the msg in that case. |
| 22:38:59 | BZFlag | so if the display handled ansi colors, then the network could send markup (or msgs that imply markup) |
| 22:39:27 | crs23 | what if we just say the message protocol transfers XML? the client decides how to draw and doesn't care if it's a local message or remote. |
| 22:39:50 | BZFlag | got an example of a msg that would need it? |
| 22:40:01 | crs23 | erm, message protocol -> protocol for transferring player messages |
| 22:40:20 | captain_proton | i like that idea =) |
| 22:40:27 | BZFlag | player msgs already include a from and a to, so colors are implied by that, no? |
| 22:40:39 | crs23 | i could mark up messages to teammates! |
| 22:41:08 | BZFlag | with something other than <to foo team> which is already included? |
| 22:41:33 | captain_proton | it might allow special things like "don't you <bold>EVER</bold> do that again!" |
| 22:42:02 | crs23 | right. even if that's not supported right away, it'd be nice if it was permitted by the protocol. |
| 22:42:27 | BZFlag | captain_proton: exactly the thing I'd like to 2a3v4o5i6d1 |
| 22:42:41 | crs23 | heh |
| 22:42:53 | captain_proton | BZFlag: haha |
| 22:43:10 | captain_proton | BZFlag: it doesn't have to be exposed to the user |
| 22:43:19 | captain_proton | BZFlag: but it would be nice for server messages and the like |
| 22:43:25 | BZFlag | captain_proton: it would be if the net code handled it. |
| 22:43:30 | BZFlag | just not documented, perhaps. |
| 22:43:42 | captain_proton | exactly |
| 22:43:55 | BZFlag | still, exactly what I'd like to avoid. |
| 22:44:07 | crs23 | why? |
| 22:44:29 | crs23 | anything besides the obvious color abuse? |
| 22:44:29 | BZFlag | color is useful imho when it saves screen real estate. it's annoying when it's there for no reason. |
| 22:44:41 | BZFlag | that's it, just obvious color abuse. |
| 22:45:20 | crs23 | k. maybe we can make it so people could set their config to discard message payload markup. |
| 22:46:14 | BZFlag | I'm still having trouble thinking of a single msg that goes across the net that I want color in the text of the msg. |
| 22:48:10 | BZFlag | I do see a need for "message type: a) colorize, b) display as text, c) discard" for when the client cooks messages. |
| 22:48:20 | captain_proton | cooks? |
| 22:48:54 | BZFlag | ie: client gets a msg that BZFlag killed captain_proton, or that captain_proton captured the red team flag, or |
| 22:49:03 | captain_proton | ahh |
| 22:49:09 | BZFlag | that crs23 is joingng as a purple tank. |
| 22:49:13 | BZFlag | etc. |
| 22:49:30 | BZFlag | the client gets the MsgFoo and cooks it for display. |
| 22:50:08 | captain_proton | all this talk of cooking is making me hungry |
| 22:50:33 | BZFlag | me too! get me some food! |
| 22:50:37 | | thanks BZFlag :) |
| 22:50:37 | BZFlag | ibot: botsnack |
| 22:52:18 | captain_proton | grabs a box of crackers |
| 22:52:23 | crs23 | i wonder if a table of tag sequences would work. e.g. from.red -> $ (Red Team) or from.red -> <red>$</red> where $ is the data in those tags |
| 22:53:13 | crs23 | and from.red means <from><red> |
| 22:53:26 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 22:53:42 | captain_proton | oh BZFlag - about the net protocol |
| 22:53:51 | captain_proton | currently, anybody can send a message as anybody |
| 22:54:02 | captain_proton | ie apathy's cheater immunizer |
| 22:54:06 | captain_proton | that needs to change |
| 22:54:33 | crs23 | so the server should auto-detect the sender and insert it as the `from'? |
| 22:54:43 | captain_proton | well |
| 22:54:54 | captain_proton | at a minimum it should verify the sender |
| 22:55:16 | crs23 | if the server can auto-detect (and it can) perhaps it should |
| 22:55:27 | captain_proton | make it so I can't send a MsgShotEnd for someone else's shot |
| 22:55:39 | crs23 | ahh! yes, you're completely right. |
| 22:56:15 | captain_proton | though in the meantime its a great way to get cheaters to leave on servers where I don't have admin =) |
| 22:56:30 | crs23 | ROTFL |
| 22:57:56 | crs23 | i was thinking... should we allow encryption of player-to-player messages (public/private key)? encryption will have to be added for the karma stuff anyway. |
| 22:58:11 | captain_proton | i don't think so |
| 22:58:45 | BZFlag | apathy's cheater immunizer ? |
| 22:59:25 | captain_proton | BZFlag: apathy has some code to choose a single jerk - when you get MsgShotBegin, you send MsgShotEnd |
| 22:59:34 | BZFlag | see protocol.txt: The server ignores and overwrites "from player id". |
| 22:59:42 | captain_proton | effectively makes it so obvious cheaters/impostors/etc can't play |
| 22:59:55 | BZFlag | the server will be checking the from, and probably kicking people that change it. |
| 23:00:10 | crs23 | well, i was thinking of using encryption for clans. if we allow clan registration then you can just broadcast messages and only your clan could read them. |
| 23:00:27 | BZFlag | MsgShotEnd will only be allowed from the shooter of a GM. |
| 23:00:29 | captain_proton | maybe |
| 23:00:38 | BZFlag | any other shot end will be implied from MsgKilled. |
| 23:00:53 | captain_proton | it might be better to just allow people to set up player lists in game |
| 23:00:59 | captain_proton | so for instance, on my meq team |
| 23:01:05 | captain_proton | i could have a list of all the players |
| 23:01:18 | captain_proton | and bind a key to send a message to all of them (that were on the server at the time) |
| 23:01:35 | crs23 | true |
| 23:01:56 | captain_proton | that way i could also keep a list of players in other teams and taunt them ;) |
| 23:02:03 | crs23 | heh |
| 23:03:40 | BZFlag | I'm not real worried about msgMsg overhead, so that can be done at the client. |
| 23:04:00 | BZFlag | just send the msg multiple time if you want individuals as opposed to teams. |
| 23:04:25 | captain_proton | yes |
| 23:04:57 | BZFlag | I would like to see team "ownership" though. ie: if someone is the only person on a team, they can be the team admin and be able to allow or kick new players joining the team. |
| 23:05:24 | captain_proton | perhaps we could add a team name to the registration? |
| 23:05:26 | BZFlag | course the admin could kick them... ;-) |
| 23:05:50 | captain_proton | and make it so the server verifies the member with a list of members for each team? |
| 23:05:57 | captain_proton | on server login ? |
| 23:07:40 | crs23 | i dunno. i'm not sure i like team ownership. i do see a need for choosing a team before starting a game and locking out new players (it's perfect for tournaments). |
| 23:08:10 | captain_proton | crs23: there has to be someone who authorizes new members, etc |
| 23:08:28 | captain_proton | have a 'team admin' flag, as it were |
| 23:09:31 | crs23 | in a typical game? i'm not sure i agree. people come and go and i think ownership wouldn't work well in practice. |
| 23:09:43 | captain_proton | not for specific games |
| 23:09:44 | captain_proton | in general |
| 23:11:20 | crs23 | so this'd be for, say, reserving the red team for your clan on your server? |
| 23:11:29 | captain_proton | no |
| 23:11:32 | captain_proton | for instance |
| 23:11:50 | captain_proton | if people were to try to join ANY server claiming to be part of my team |
| 23:12:15 | captain_proton | ... a way to keep out the riff-raff... =) |
| 23:13:26 | crs23 | i think that should be integrated into the karma identification system. we just add clan IDs and your clan members need the clan private key. |
| 23:13:38 | captain_proton | exactly |
| 23:13:55 | captain_proton | but there needs to be a 'clan admin' who decided who gets let in |
| 23:15:01 | crs23 | that's the guy who hands out the private key. there should be a way to adjust each private key so it's signed for each clan member. that way you can tell who's private key was compromised and just revoke that key. |
| 23:15:45 | captain_proton | there needs to be some sort of transparent interface for all of this...laypeople can't handle key management |
| 23:16:26 | iLLf8d | we need bzflag tests |
| 23:16:29 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:16:40 | crs23 | sure. by default i think you have no key and cannot authenticate yourself. |
| 23:16:52 | iLLf8d | that way we can categorize pilot first grade -> 3rd grade |
| 23:17:06 | iLLf8d | beginner, inter, adv |
| 23:17:15 | iLLf8d | and have a few adv only boards |
| 23:17:19 | captain_proton | boards? |
| 23:17:23 | iLLf8d | worlds |
| 23:17:39 | captain_proton | bleh |
| 23:17:43 | captain_proton | i say just go with karma |
| 23:17:48 | crs23 | the client would have some menu for registering and managing keys and also a standalone tool |
| 23:17:49 | iLLf8d | I mean alot of newbies get scared away because they have the shit shot outta them |
| 23:18:02 | iLLf8d | and alot of more adv players get bored with shooting newbies so it all works out |
| 23:18:04 | captain_proton | the highest karma people will be the most experienced/best players (hopefully) |
| 23:18:41 | crs23 | hmm... it's like a parallel karma system: cheater<->law abiding and newbie<->advanced |
| 23:18:41 | iLLf8d | cap I think our karma will suck really cause of vindictiveness |
| 23:18:56 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: i don't think so |
| 23:19:09 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: the people who will have the most effect on our karma will be other high-karma players |
| 23:19:10 | iLLf8d | as soon as others start parading as your callsign |
| 23:19:10 | crs23 | that's the trick to making a good karma system, isn't it |
| 23:19:16 | iLLf8d | you don't think theres some animosity there |
| 23:19:21 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: well... |
| 23:19:34 | captain_proton | 1) they won't be ABLE to use my callsign |
| 23:19:46 | scanline | is back (gone 01:57:48) |
| 23:19:48 | captain_proton | 2) their karma will be low, thus, their impact on mine will be low |
| 23:20:00 | iLLf8d | I meant the point being (those people will give you low karma marks) |
| 23:20:15 | captain_proton | so? |
| 23:20:21 | captain_proton | they'll have a minimal effect |
| 23:20:29 | iLLf8d | maybe i'll change my nick to barneytank |
| 23:20:30 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:20:34 | captain_proton | decides to listen to cirque du soleil music |
| 23:20:38 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 23:20:59 | captain_proton | there is one feature i'd like though |
| 23:21:17 | iLLf8d | hey I was at uhm flipcode and saw a tutorial on decals |
| 23:21:18 | captain_proton | i'd like to be able to authenticate to my own nick but use a different one (so long as it wasn't somebody else's) |
| 23:21:38 | iLLf8d | we gonna have those in bz? for burn marks and decorating of tanks with cool logos etc... |
| 23:22:04 | captain_proton | would like that |
| 23:22:12 | iLLf8d | then again |
| 23:22:17 | crs23 | do karma changes affect this changed nick? or are they discarded? |
| 23:22:18 | iLLf8d | may be a bad idea |
| 23:22:24 | iLLf8d | with those anti semite fuckers |
| 23:22:33 | Chestal | good evening |
| 23:22:34 | iLLf8d | the kkk jew whatever haters |
| 23:22:38 | captain_proton | crs23: the affect it |
| 23:22:42 | captain_proton | they* |
| 23:22:54 | crs23 | seems reasonable |
| 23:22:54 | iLLf8d | I can imagine what they'd have on their tanks |
| 23:22:55 | captain_proton | also, there should be a way to find out who someone REALLY is |
| 23:23:06 | captain_proton | to make a better decision about adjusting karma |
| 23:23:12 | lupinator | late argument: i don't think advanced players scare newbies away |
| 23:23:14 | crs23 | aw, then what's the point of changing your nick? |
| 23:23:30 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 23:23:35 | captain_proton | welcome lup |
| 23:23:39 | iLLf8d | crs23: sometimes I change it for jokes heh |
| 23:23:51 | iLLf8d | =) |
| 23:23:51 | crs23 | good point. |
| 23:23:54 | lupinator | i think i kept on playing bz because of the ig masters of bz |
| 23:23:55 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 23:23:57 | iLLf8d | thats a VERY important part heh |
| 23:24:04 | Chestal | I like to play with different nicks sometime, but I guess I can live with having several identities for that or just play as an unregistered player when I want to be someone else |
| 23:24:14 | captain_proton | occasionally goes by captain pistachio just for kicks |
| 23:24:18 | captain_proton | well |
| 23:24:24 | crs23 | except when you can't get into a server with a high min karma |
| 23:24:27 | captain_proton | it'd be nice to still have access to the high-karma servers |
| 23:24:47 | iLLf8d | another question |
| 23:24:58 | iLLf8d | what happens if your karma gets boned somehow |
| 23:25:07 | iLLf8d | you're boned? or gotta chnage callsign and start over |
| 23:25:17 | captain_proton | boned how? |
| 23:25:27 | iLLf8d | I dunno people are cheating in bz |
| 23:25:39 | iLLf8d | you don't think those same guys will figure out how to rig the karma system? |
| 23:25:41 | iLLf8d | please |
| 23:25:44 | captain_proton | i don't think so |
| 23:25:50 | captain_proton | it will all be based on keys |
| 23:26:00 | captain_proton | if they don't have the key they can't impersonate |
| 23:26:05 | Chestal | any ideas on how to make the karma system robust? I think I remember someone mentioning some game what we might use for inspiration |
| 23:26:33 | captain_proton | Chestal: i know someone who's implemented something similar - i plan to discuss it at length with him and ask various questions |
| 23:26:57 | Chestal | I wonder if it's really possible to protect it against attacks |
| 23:27:24 | iLLf8d | perhaps a players council for greivances would help |
| 23:27:28 | Chestal | hmm, I should do this 'cvs update' in a cronjob |
| 23:27:30 | iLLf8d | a checks and balance kinda system |
| 23:27:50 | lupinator | can a group play on their own server with various identities to push their karma? |
| 23:27:52 | captain_proton | thinks developers should initially have control over the karma pool |
| 23:28:22 | crs23 | you could backup the karma for, say, a week. then you can recover from hacks. |
| 23:28:23 | captain_proton | lupinator: since your influence on karma is based on your own karma value, they could all raise their own a little |
| 23:28:30 | iLLf8d | I think there should be a devel password to adjust karma in case of incidences |
| 23:28:36 | captain_proton | but you couldn't work your way any higher |
| 23:29:02 | iLLf8d | perhaps the karma system should work backwards too... |
| 23:29:06 | Chestal | we'll have to have some kind of seed, i.e. one or a few players start with a karma>0 ? |
| 23:29:08 | iLLf8d | everyones karma starts really high |
| 23:29:13 | iLLf8d | then you lose points when are bad |
| 23:29:20 | captain_proton | Chestal: we kinda have to... |
| 23:29:38 | Chestal | captain: about the best players getting high karma: I am not so sure with all good players :-) |
| 23:29:55 | lupinator | btw, what's the point of a karma system again? kicking? |
| 23:30:07 | captain_proton | kicking, keeping cheaters out of the fastest servers, etc |
| 23:30:07 | crs23 | locking them out |
| 23:30:17 | Chestal | lupinator: not allowing persons with too low karma to join for example |
| 23:30:25 | crs23 | what do you think about a parallel karma system for newbie<->advanced rating. it could probably be automatic based on kills, though it'd be nice to heap karma on good players too. |
| 23:30:38 | crs23 | servers could have min/max skill karma limits |
| 23:30:50 | captain_proton | giving the people with really high karma auto-admin |
| 23:30:54 | captain_proton | crs23: possibly |
| 23:31:08 | iLLf8d | yeah that'd be nice but if exploitable will reak havoc |
| 23:31:21 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: if ANYTHING is exploitable it will wreak havoc |
| 23:31:24 | Chestal | crs: hmm, a kind of automatic performance measuring, well, it would have some benefits |
| 23:31:28 | captain_proton | it needs to be super-robust |
| 23:31:32 | iLLf8d | I mean the server admin access |
| 23:31:37 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: true |
| 23:31:40 | iLLf8d | people will be trying to do map takeovers |
| 23:31:54 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: server admin access would just be another karma minimum like join |
| 23:32:15 | iLLf8d | I dunno you may just want to do what they do in irc... |
| 23:32:16 | Chestal | we culd have karma threshold for observers, regular players and admins |
| 23:32:28 | captain_proton | i have a friend who can do some security audits on bzfs once we get auto-admin working to make absolutely sure if they do get server admin they can't take over your box |
| 23:32:28 | iLLf8d | count on chan owners to grant admin access to people they like |
| 23:32:36 | iLLf8d | then you just stay away from the fields of jerks |
| 23:32:43 | iLLf8d | the system seems to work out fine |
| 23:33:11 | crs23 | thinks he's finally got the right idea for getting the ODE solver to handle discontinuous derivatives |
| 23:33:15 | Chestal | the current password authentification for admin should be gone and replaced by karma threshold and a list of trusted player identities |
| 23:33:15 | iLLf8d | if you think about it theres no one field you ahve to be on |
| 23:33:21 | captain_proton | crs23: coo |
| 23:33:47 | captain_proton | Chestal: trusted lists could just be another key in your keyring |
| 23:34:01 | captain_proton | Chestal: server owner hands out the private key for admin to the people he trusts |
| 23:34:43 | Chestal | hmm, shared private keys, hmm. I'm not sure that's a good idea |
| 23:35:15 | captain_proton | err |
| 23:35:21 | captain_proton | individual private keys |
| 23:35:21 | crs23 | you can make unique private keys in the same class such that they all unlock the same public key but are unique |
| 23:35:31 | captain_proton | points to crs23 |
| 23:36:09 | crs23 | we're definitely going to need a way to revoke keys and identities in case some get compromised |
| 23:36:18 | Chestal | crs: hmm, that is possible? so e(d1(x))=x and e(d2(x))=x? |
| 23:36:36 | captain_proton | Chestal: with certain algorithms |
| 23:36:52 | crs23 | i'm sure i read it somewhere in "applied cryptography" but if you put me on the spot i'll just shrug |
| 23:37:07 | Chestal | the alternative would be to keep lists of authorized public keys |
| 23:37:11 | captain_proton | hugs that book |
| 23:37:27 | crs23 | yeah, it's a great book |
| 23:38:07 | Chestal | oh well, I guess the first thing to do is to think about the karma system itself, that's probably the hardest part |
| 23:39:05 | Chestal | I think we need a simulator :-) |
| 23:39:26 | captain_proton | could hack up something in GTK to simulate it |
| 23:39:32 | captain_proton | once we have the backend done |
| 23:40:12 | Chestal | GTK? I thought about a simulator to test different karma algorithms |
| 23:40:24 | captain_proton | nevermind |
| 23:40:29 | Chestal | you could simulate several scenarios for attackign the system |
| 23:40:29 | lupinator | Chestal: what happened to ducati 5156? |
| 23:40:41 | Chestal | lupinator: what happened to it? I am at home, I cannot see it that easily here |
| 23:40:50 | iLLf8d | lupinator: that the one thats 1.8 now? |
| 23:40:59 | iLLf8d | one of the ducs is |
| 23:41:05 | Chestal | thats 5157 |
| 23:41:20 | lupinator | RIP |
| 23:41:29 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:41:49 | iLLf8d | I added side views along witht he rear view |
| 23:42:05 | Chestal | is adding extra views considered cheating? |
| 23:42:05 | iLLf8d | sometimes it spaces tho (looks like a starfield every once in a while on the side views) |
| 23:42:14 | iLLf8d | no if you have no players |
| 23:42:20 | iLLf8d | s/no/not |
| 23:42:45 | iLLf8d | its a cut and paste of xml in the bzc |
| 23:42:47 | Chestal | lupinator: segfault, hmm |
| 23:43:04 | Chestal | restarted |
| 23:43:15 | captain_proton | Chestal: there are multiple views in 1.7... |
| 23:43:37 | Chestal | captain_proton: wel, in theory, but noone uses those |
| 23:43:53 | Chestal | I don't think that adding extra views gives ou a real advantage, but it might be a problem |
| 23:43:56 | lupinator | but nobody can handle those |
| 23:44:00 | iLLf8d | Chestal: I'd assume you're gonna let people do what they want in the xml portion |
| 23:44:05 | iLLf8d | isn't that the point of it? |
| 23:44:08 | captain_proton | i don't think it gives much of any advantage... |
| 23:44:17 | Chestal | it's similar to other things you can add to your client which noone can notice |
| 23:44:20 | captain_proton | you can see the person who is shooting at your rear |
| 23:44:30 | iLLf8d | everyone should be allowed to place whatever wherever on their own screen (imho) |
| 23:44:34 | Chestal | ages ago I had a radar patch which indicated heading for each tank |
| 23:44:35 | captain_proton | you can't turn around fast enough to stop it though |
| 23:44:52 | iLLf8d | yeah but thats a patch |
| 23:45:09 | iLLf8d | the code wasn't extended at all for what I did |
| 23:45:10 | crs23 | captain_proton: it's a defense against stealth that isn't normally available |
| 23:45:17 | captain_proton | crs23: thats true... |
| 23:45:23 | Chestal | ill: it doesn't matter if it's a patch. The question is whether these things give you an advantage and if we want that or not |
| 23:45:40 | captain_proton | however, if someone is clever with stealth it won't matter |
| 23:45:46 | iLLf8d | i'd say yes |
| 23:45:56 | iLLf8d | I was thinking of trying to make a progie to customize that |
| 23:45:57 | crs23 | you really can't police people's views so i say don't worry about it |
| 23:45:57 | captain_proton | also... |
| 23:46:01 | captain_proton | as you add views |
| 23:46:06 | iLLf8d | ASSuMEd that was your plans all along |
| 23:46:07 | captain_proton | it gets harder to navigate |
| 23:46:11 | captain_proton | information overload =) |
| 23:46:52 | iLLf8d | you guys should post acceptible use policy then.... |
| 23:47:06 | Chestal | btw., I posted on ezboard today that in 1.8 the server admin will be able to specify how powerful some flags are, e.g. longer reload tiem for GM, how fast high speed should be etc. I guess we were goign to do this anyway |
| 23:47:22 | captain_proton | we were? |
| 23:47:25 | captain_proton | its a good idea tho |
| 23:47:27 | iLLf8d | cause I never woul've considered that an abuse (thought it was the reason for the xml in the first place) |
| 23:47:37 | captain_proton | i don't think its really an abuse |
| 23:47:54 | Chestal | illf8d: I am not saying it is one, I just feel the need to think about it |
| 23:48:04 | iLLf8d | yeah |
| 23:48:13 | iLLf8d | what you may want to do |
| 23:48:21 | iLLf8d | is zero everyone for team games |
| 23:48:47 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 23:48:54 | iLLf8d | first thing I did was resize radar and add side views to see capabilities |
| 23:48:56 | captain_proton | any thoughts on the possibility of server-defined views? |
| 23:49:06 | iLLf8d | and tried to add in a higher view to see on rooftops |
| 23:49:19 | iLLf8d | which didn't matter considering no jumping on ducati |
| 23:49:45 | lupinator | i'd like to have the same view for everybody |
| 23:49:56 | iLLf8d | nah thats part of the fun lup |
| 23:50:14 | iLLf8d | everyone wants to skin their interface make it look cool and customize |
| 23:50:22 | captain_proton | exactly |
| 23:50:25 | iLLf8d | shit i'd hang dice =P |
| 23:50:26 | iLLf8d | jk |
| 23:50:26 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:50:39 | iLLf8d | maybe a hoola girl |
| 23:50:41 | captain_proton | though i'm thinking it would be cool to have certain servers that have their own HUD package |
| 23:50:50 | lupinator | but it really affects playing. you don't know what the other players can see |
| 23:51:05 | iLLf8d | assuming the controls are accessible.... |
| 23:51:18 | captain_proton | i think as long as all the views are centered at the tank |
| 23:51:27 | iLLf8d | perhaps a gtk package with slides to adjust settings |
| 23:51:29 | captain_proton | therefore, you can assume any direct line is visible |
| 23:51:36 | iLLf8d | s/slide/sliders |
| 23:51:53 | iLLf8d | assuming its extensible to all players |
| 23:51:56 | iLLf8d | its an even field |
| 23:51:57 | captain_proton | so you have to do more of a hide & seek play |
| 23:52:29 | iLLf8d | I wouldn't worry about views |
| 23:52:40 | iLLf8d | I can sendya the sideview thing it's like 8 lines |
| 23:52:55 | iLLf8d | its so outtacontrol to follow alread its useless |
| 23:52:55 | iLLf8d | but looks cool |
| 23:53:26 | iLLf8d | the rear is nice tho |
| 23:53:36 | captain_proton | see? adding views may increase your visibility but it makes it REALLY hard to use |
| 23:53:37 | Chestal | if the eye point can be moved, we get problems |
| 23:53:44 | captain_proton | Chestal: exactly |
| 23:53:49 | lupinator | would be easier to use if you have a bar displaying a 360° view |
| 23:53:57 | iLLf8d | ehh... its tough to do on the fly |
| 23:54:16 | captain_proton | lupinator: i doubt that |
| 23:54:32 | Chestal | we need a nice roaming observer view, though |
| 23:54:54 | iLLf8d | well you guys have months to figure this out why not make the official release setup so that beta's don't work on it |
| 23:54:58 | Chestal | with ability to lock your viewpoint on a tank |
| 23:54:59 | captain_proton | i kindof like the way most FPS games do observing |
| 23:55:02 | lupinator | and a vcr for the matches |
| 23:55:06 | iLLf8d | then run it full tilt at the moment to see the consequences |
| 23:55:12 | iLLf8d | then for release decide |
| 23:55:17 | Chestal | and a TV-mode with autoßperspective |
| 23:55:44 | captain_proton | Chestal: =) |
| 23:56:11 | Chestal | but all this are featrues that can be added later |
| 23:56:12 | lupinator | commercials? |
| 23:56:17 | iLLf8d | would be nice to have airborn callsign ident too |
| 23:56:28 | Chestal | we need to get evrythign into 1.8 which coudl break compatability, other features can be inclued incrementally |
| 23:56:30 | iLLf8d | or a toggle callsign display |
| 23:56:35 | captain_proton | airborne callsign ident? |
| 23:56:48 | iLLf8d | yeah like cop cars with numbers on roof |
| 23:56:53 | Chestal | I want 1.8 release in June at latest |
| 23:57:00 | iLLf8d | so you don't have to right click to see callsigns |
| 23:57:07 | captain_proton | i think tim was aiming for early August |
| 23:57:14 | iLLf8d | hit a toggle and everyone viewable has a callsign popup |
| 23:57:22 | Chestal | well, let's thes AUgust for stable version |
| 23:57:29 | Chestal | but we shoudl have wide-spread betas before that |
| 23:57:38 | captain_proton | y3es |
| 23:57:41 | captain_proton | yes* |
| 23:57:44 | Chestal | for testign we need more than 10 users |
| 23:58:03 | captain_proton | we can have mozilla-style bug days |
| 23:58:53 | iLLf8d | heh and that cheezy tree... |
| 23:58:59 | iLLf8d | sorry roadmap |
| 23:59:00 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:59:57 | Chestal | too bad I missed Valoche |