| 03:23:51 | captain_proton | hey ibot! |
| 04:01:46 | | captain_proton: i don't know |
| 04:01:46 | captain_proton | ibot: whats up? |
| 04:01:55 | captain_proton | geez |
| 04:01:58 | | captain_proton: excuse me? |
| 04:01:58 | captain_proton | ibot: you're dumb |
| 04:02:04 | captain_proton | you heard me |
| 04:02:07 | captain_proton | damn stupid bot |
| 07:54:17 | captain_proton | Chestal: awake? |
| 08:04:42 | Zdog | hey Chestal |
| 08:04:55 | | somebody said there was not here |
| 08:04:55 | Zdog | u there??? |
| 08:05:05 | Zdog | ahh |
| 08:05:10 | Zdog | anyone know his email?? |
| 08:05:30 | captain_proton | thilo@unix-ag.org |
| 08:05:50 | Zdog | thanks |
| 08:10:14 | captain_proton | heyhey Aldebaran |
| 08:10:19 | Aldebaran | hi |
| 08:10:39 | Aldebaran | did you get the laser that was red? |
| 08:10:48 | captain_proton | i haven't had the chance to look |
| 08:10:52 | captain_proton | lemme take a look now |
| 08:11:30 | Aldebaran | Tank you here? |
| 08:11:51 | captain_proton | hmm it won't open |
| 08:12:04 | Aldebaran | I will send again |
| 08:13:25 | captain_proton | your firewall is getting in the way it looks like |
| 08:14:00 | Aldebaran | sent via email |
| 08:14:08 | Aldebaran | what port does dcc need open to send? |
| 08:14:16 | captain_proton | its a random port |
| 08:14:25 | captain_proton | unfortunately |
| 08:14:33 | captain_proton | iptables can track it if thats what you use |
| 08:14:38 | captain_proton | i've never tried to do that though |
| 08:14:56 | Aldebaran | I do use that, and it's supposed to allow any connection related to a connection I initiate |
| 08:15:03 | Aldebaran | anyway should arrive via email |
| 08:15:26 | captain_proton | you need to use 'IRC protocol support' in the netfilter config and configure iptables to use it |
| 08:15:28 | captain_proton | its kinda weird |
| 08:15:57 | captain_proton | i still get an error |
| 08:15:59 | Aldebaran | oh allow irc, doh! that is an option, I use Bastille it asks all kinds of questions |
| 08:16:02 | captain_proton | how big is it exactly over there? |
| 08:16:27 | Aldebaran | 34k |
| 08:16:37 | captain_proton | exact # of bytes |
| 08:16:42 | captain_proton | i have 35266 |
| 08:16:55 | Aldebaran | are you using gimp to open it? |
| 08:17:01 | captain_proton | i'm using ee |
| 08:17:03 | captain_proton | lemme try gimp |
| 08:17:22 | captain_proton | ahh it worked |
| 08:17:34 | captain_proton | is the bottom of the beam supposed to be green? |
| 08:17:38 | Aldebaran | no |
| 08:17:47 | captain_proton | thats what I see |
| 08:17:51 | captain_proton | you're using pov right? |
| 08:17:56 | Aldebaran | yes |
| 08:18:02 | Aldebaran | want .pov file? |
| 08:18:05 | captain_proton | sure |
| 08:18:10 | captain_proton | i'll render directly to png |
| 08:18:14 | captain_proton | see if that fixes anything |
| 08:24:05 | captain_proton | what pov-ray command line do you use? |
| 08:24:27 | Aldebaran | am using povfront a frontend |
| 08:24:35 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 08:25:06 | Aldebaran | using depth 9 threshold .9 jitter radiosity antialiasing |
| 08:39:01 | Aldebaran | ok use x-povray +I laser.pov +O laser.png +H94 +W125 +QR +FN16 +A0 +J |
| 08:43:37 | captain_proton | looks good |
| 08:58:44 | captain_proton | hey MrApathyCream |
| 09:39:55 | scanline | is away: standing in the wet room |
| 09:50:12 | MrApathyCream | hey, snore....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
| 10:02:44 | scanline | is back (gone 00:22:56) |
| 13:26:16 | FantaZee | hi |
| 14:00:11 | scanline | is away: pseudo-foodlike-thingies |
| 14:18:26 | scanline | is back (gone 00:18:15) |
| 17:40:58 | scanline | laughs at today's User Friendly |
| 17:42:41 | captain_proton | scanline: http://www.google.com/technology/pigeonrank.html |
| 17:42:55 | scanline | captain_proton: i saw that too :) |
| 17:43:12 | scanline | you guys got any april fools BZflag? |
| 17:43:23 | scanline | like support for the Vextrex? |
| 17:43:25 | captain_proton | no - thats a good idea |
| 17:43:27 | captain_proton | vextrex? |
| 17:43:36 | scanline | and old video game console that used vector graphics |
| 17:43:59 | captain_proton | care to hack up a 'story' with me? |
| 17:44:01 | captain_proton | =) |
| 17:44:19 | vogon_jeltz | first, check out icculus.org |
| 17:44:22 | scanline | i gotta go to class in... 3 minutes |
| 17:44:25 | vogon_jeltz | and the top story |
| 17:44:55 | vogon_jeltz | http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=101764861300005&r=1&w=2 <-- and this thread from linux-kernel |
| 17:45:17 | captain_proton | there was a nice post to the IETF list about how plain TCP and UDP are going to be banned in the US |
| 17:45:25 | captain_proton | TWM-GL? |
| 17:45:26 | captain_proton | rofl |
| 17:45:44 | vogon_jeltz | actually, TWMGL does exist. |
| 17:45:48 | vogon_jeltz | it's open-source ;) |
| 17:45:50 | captain_proton | i'm sure |
| 17:46:04 | scanline | is away: class |
| 17:55:46 | captain_proton | BZFlag now officially runs on the Vectrex ;) |
| 18:04:32 | captain_proton | what happened to the topic? |
| 19:29:10 | vogon_jeltz | is away: sl33p. |
| 20:18:49 | captain_proton | hi tim |
| 20:40:35 | iLLf8d | hey cap 2 of the zee bros team are on ducati playing ctf atm |
| 20:40:45 | iLLf8d | games full up but observer mode works fine |
| 20:44:06 | captain_proton | yeah i know |
| 20:44:09 | captain_proton | i was there for a while |
| 23:21:20 | iLL_Away | some of the teams look like they're gonna be tough |
| 23:21:27 | iLL_Away | like chestals |
| 23:21:35 | iLL_Away | tho they play there all the time so... heh |
| 23:23:19 | Chestal | I'm quite sure that my team is gogn to suck :-) |
| 23:23:38 | Chestal | all of us can be good solo players at times, but we have little to no trainign as a team |
| 23:23:54 | Chestal | I'm afraid of the Froot Loops |
| 23:24:33 | Chestal | teh Czech team coudl also be quite powerful |
| 23:24:49 | iLL_Away | yeah? |
| 23:24:52 | Chestal | from meq, I only know 2 players |
| 23:25:07 | iLL_Away | yeah we have no team play either |
| 23:25:08 | Chestal | the frogs look like a solid team |
| 23:25:19 | Chestal | the Zees coudl be dangerous, too. But I don't know Rammstein |
| 23:25:35 | iLL_Away | I was playing the zees earlier they seemed decent |
| 23:25:40 | Chestal | the Spain guys shouldn't be that powerful |
| 23:25:47 | Chestal | Fantazee is very good |
| 23:25:57 | iLL_Away | any idea what the date of the tourney is? |
| 23:26:05 | Chestal | the ults look liek they wil suck :-) |
| 23:26:06 | iLL_Away | I got jury duty probably next week |
| 23:26:12 | iLL_Away | hopefully it'll be on a weekened |
| 23:26:26 | Chestal | well, it's not sure how we go about it exactly |
| 23:26:42 | Chestal | if we do somethign liek a tournament, it will probably be on a weekend |
| 23:26:45 | iLL_Away | hopefully you'll have 3 fields too |
| 23:26:59 | iLL_Away | or at the minimum 2 |
| 23:27:02 | iLL_Away | jumping and no jumping |
| 23:27:05 | Chestal | no matches durign the next 2 weeks at least |
| 23:27:19 | Chestal | well, we'll start with current ducati ctf only |
| 23:27:31 | Chestal | and probably by trying out single matches first |
| 23:27:42 | iLL_Away | single matches meaning? |
| 23:27:44 | iLL_Away | singles |
| 23:27:55 | Chestal | meaning that team A challenges team B |
| 23:27:59 | iLL_Away | maybe i'll start a parallel tourney |
| 23:28:05 | iLL_Away | hmm |
| 23:28:22 | Chestal | but maybe we'll start with some small tournament, too |
| 23:28:29 | Chestal | I haven't made up my midn yet, suggestions are welcome |
| 23:28:38 | iLL_Away | I dunno |
| 23:28:44 | Chestal | we coudl easily do several different ratings in parallel |
| 23:28:44 | iLL_Away | I'm all about variety so.... |
| 23:29:01 | Chestal | let's say we do ducati-style |
| 23:29:01 | iLL_Away | I get bored on every field lately |
| 23:29:19 | Chestal | we'll have a ranking for that, and maybe a tournament from time to time |
| 23:29:36 | Chestal | like in tennis, where you can win a tournament, but can still be only 5th in ranking |
| 23:29:43 | iLL_Away | hmm |
| 23:29:48 | iLL_Away | dunno how that will work |
| 23:30:01 | Chestal | we might also try to play a real league, i.e. one(or two) matches between all teams |
| 23:30:02 | iLL_Away | then it turns into favorites |
| 23:30:20 | Chestal | and we could have the same thing for a different server / settings |
| 23:30:22 | iLL_Away | why not a normal league with a season |
| 23:30:32 | iLL_Away | same shit as like soccer |
| 23:30:41 | iLL_Away | or football for the foreigners heh |
| 23:30:58 | Chestal | a problem with a normal leage is that people will need to show up at certain dates over a long period of time |
| 23:31:07 | Chestal | I'm not sure whether that will work |
| 23:31:13 | iLL_Away | yeah then they forfiet |
| 23:31:19 | iLL_Away | or however its spelled |
| 23:31:27 | Chestal | I will set up a ratign system in all cases |
| 23:31:28 | iLL_Away | forfeit |
| 23:31:29 | iLL_Away | hmm |
| 23:31:45 | Chestal | every 'offical' match changes the team's rating |
| 23:31:47 | iLL_Away | what do you mean by rating system? |
| 23:31:58 | Chestal | somethig about that is in the FAQ |
| 23:32:03 | iLL_Away | is it? |
| 23:32:04 | iLL_Away | hmm |
| 23:32:06 | Chestal | eah team starts with a ratign of, say, 1200 |
| 23:32:21 | Chestal | then team A widns against Team B |
| 23:32:30 | Chestal | their new ratings will be 1250 and 1150 for example |
| 23:32:50 | Chestal | after some time, the betetr teams will have higher ratings |
| 23:33:05 | Chestal | let's say after some time A: 1600, B: 1000 |
| 23:33:21 | Chestal | now B beats A in a match. A will lose lots of points then, and B will win lots |
| 23:33:29 | Chestal | if A beats B, there'll be much smalelr changes |
| 23:33:46 | iLL_Away | hmm |
| 23:33:52 | Chestal | also, when it's a draw, A loses rating and B gains some |
| 23:33:57 | iLL_Away | how you gonna decide the win? |
| 23:34:02 | iLL_Away | based on percentage |
| 23:34:05 | Chestal | this is similar to how it is done in chess |
| 23:34:12 | Chestal | that's a good question |
| 23:34:31 | Chestal | the basic scheme only differentiats between win / draw / lose |
| 23:34:36 | iLL_Away | sounds good in theory but giving a team too much weight .... |
| 23:34:41 | Chestal | so a 10:0 win is as good as a 5:4 |
| 23:34:44 | captain_proton | Chestal: you need to set up challenges ;) |
| 23:34:59 | iLL_Away | cap we need a practice field |
| 23:35:04 | captain_proton | i'd like to take out a few of the teams before the tourney |
| 23:35:12 | captain_proton | so we can learn to play together |
| 23:35:19 | Chestal | we have 4 1-player-teams at the moment |
| 23:35:36 | Chestal | and lots of solo players |
| 23:35:50 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 23:35:53 | Chestal | we shuld remove all Modem users :-) |
| 23:36:02 | iLLf8d | what about a roving players one? |
| 23:36:10 | iLLf8d | i'd like to play on a few different teams |
| 23:36:37 | Chestal | well, I don't know. A Team needs soem sort of identity |
| 23:37:02 | Chestal | with sports, players can change teams, but teams only change slowly over time |
| 23:37:36 | Chestal | hmm, the ult-Team shudl remove the team prefix from their callsins |
| 23:37:44 | Chestal | for consistency |
| 23:37:45 | captain_proton | yes they should - just noticed that |
| 23:38:03 | Chestal | Skipp and Nicole are biig laggers on ducati |
| 23:38:06 | Chestal | I guess modem users |
| 23:38:17 | Chestal | I'm not sure how to handle major lag |
| 23:38:24 | captain_proton | skipp and nicole are siblings |
| 23:40:03 | captain_proton | Chestal: how exactly are challenges going to be issued? |
| 23:41:12 | iLLf8d | and chestal can I make a suggestion I HOPE YOU FOLLOW =) uhm would be nice if a clan can put forth more then one team (dunno if its in the faq haven't looked yet) BiL i'm sure will have 100 teams heh |
| 23:41:32 | captain_proton | hehe iLLf8d |
| 23:41:59 | Chestal | ill: BiL? |
| 23:42:19 | Chestal | capt: don't know yet. It must be accessible through the website somehow. |
| 23:42:40 | Chestal | the hard part is to agree on a date/time |
| 23:42:43 | iLLf8d | Believe in linux |
| 23:42:54 | iLLf8d | dunno why they're not entering |
| 23:43:00 | Chestal | never heard of them |
| 23:43:01 | iLLf8d | they've got the biggest clan |
| 23:43:06 | Chestal | so they probaby suck ;-) |
| 23:43:09 | captain_proton | they ask everyone to join them |
| 23:43:12 | iLLf8d | jacques is part of them |
| 23:43:13 | captain_proton | Chestal: yep |
| 23:43:19 | iLLf8d | is scanline=jacques? |
| 23:43:21 | Chestal | ah, ok, I know jacques |
| 23:43:27 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: lol no |
| 23:43:35 | iLLf8d | he changes his nick and callsign so often |
| 23:43:36 | iLLf8d | sheesh |
| 23:43:38 | captain_proton | scanline's more interested in development than playing |
| 23:43:42 | iLLf8d | not sure what his latest incarnation is |
| 23:43:49 | captain_proton | me either |
| 23:43:51 | iLLf8d | keep whipping him |
| 23:43:53 | Chestal | well, there's nothign about multi-team clans in the FAQ |
| 23:44:08 | Chestal | but they coudl simply create several teams of course, BiL 1, BiL 2 etc. :-) |
| 23:44:12 | captain_proton | exactly |
| 23:44:13 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:44:14 | captain_proton | meq-jr ;) |
| 23:44:29 | iLLf8d | you may want to have them subdivided too |
| 23:44:31 | captain_proton | for the kiddies of meq =) |
| 23:44:32 | Chestal | some cities have several teams in real sports, too |
| 23:44:34 | iLLf8d | noo division |
| 23:44:47 | iLLf8d | or just make it intermediate/adv so not to hurt anyones feelings |
| 23:45:11 | captain_proton | Chestal: i'd like to get some work done on the rating system so we can start challenging asap |
| 23:45:20 | captain_proton | hehe iLLf8d |
| 23:45:28 | captain_proton | just meq-2 howabouts |
| 23:45:34 | Chestal | captain_proton: ratign system should be fairly easy, i.e. the ssytem itself |
| 23:45:37 | iLLf8d | meq- |
| 23:45:38 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:45:48 | Chestal | captain_ migh tbe more work to set up the webiste for this, hough |
| 23:45:48 | iLLf8d | or meq-=1 |
| 23:45:50 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:46:09 | captain_proton | Chestal: if its simple to do conceptually its simple to do for the site |
| 23:46:12 | Chestal | captain: we woudl need to be able to enter match results, every match shoudl be stored in database |
| 23:46:13 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: meq & meq2 |
| 23:46:20 | captain_proton | Chestal: easy enough |
| 23:46:25 | iLLf8d | or meq> meq< |
| 23:46:26 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:46:28 | iLLf8d | =P |
| 23:46:28 | Chestal | captain: the formulas for the ratign system are very eay |
| 23:46:32 | iLLf8d | that ones evil |
| 23:46:34 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:46:56 | captain_proton | Chestal: if you want to email me information about it, i can get started developing something for it |
| 23:47:08 | captain_proton | i think we should lose all the graphic-text on the league site too |
| 23:47:08 | Chestal | I don't know whether we shoudl just use win/draw/loss or take the real score into account |
| 23:47:11 | iLLf8d | oh better question |
| 23:47:18 | iLLf8d | what do we do about suckyass connections? |
| 23:47:23 | iLLf8d | my cable sketches on me often |
| 23:47:44 | Chestal | ill: that's a problem, especially with CTF |
| 23:47:47 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 23:48:15 | captain_proton | Chestal: could you hack up a server mod to keep player scores? (if they reconnect, have them kill a dummy player n number of times and get killed by that player m number, etc) |
| 23:48:21 | Chestal | if we switch to server-side-kill-detection, laggers will have a disadvantage, but right now they have an advantage |
| 23:48:21 | iLLf8d | probably only happen once a game |
| 23:48:37 | captain_proton | server side kills would rock my world |
| 23:48:43 | iLLf8d | my problem is mine doesn't disconnect |
| 23:48:51 | iLLf8d | I always have to come back with a different name |
| 23:48:56 | Chestal | capt: hmm, I don't know if this is possible. But what for? |
| 23:48:57 | iLLf8d | like tank and tank+ |
| 23:48:57 | captain_proton | hmm |
| 23:49:07 | captain_proton | Chestal: if someone gets disconnected during a game |
| 23:49:19 | Chestal | captain_proton: well, he'll just start from 0 again |
| 23:49:20 | iLLf8d | if I try to use the same name it says shit like error or timeout I forget which |
| 23:49:25 | Chestal | not a problem for the team league |
| 23:49:39 | captain_proton | how is the 'winner' computed? |
| 23:49:42 | iLLf8d | my old score sticks for quite some time |
| 23:49:45 | iLLf8d | team score |
| 23:49:48 | Chestal | we are just doign team scores |
| 23:49:51 | iLLf8d | not individual score |
| 23:49:51 | Chestal | timed game |
| 23:49:53 | captain_proton | ok |
| 23:49:56 | Chestal | probably 30 minutes |
| 23:50:12 | iLLf8d | I should switch filesystems too heh |
| 23:50:18 | Chestal | we woudl only have a problem if one team gets empty durgn a match |
| 23:50:23 | iLLf8d | fsck of my 40G can take a while when shit crashes |
| 23:50:24 | iLLf8d | heh |
| 23:50:27 | captain_proton | Chestal: so can you email me stuff about the rating system |
| 23:50:31 | iLLf8d | the game will be over when I get back |
| 23:50:35 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: its really easy to convert if your kernel supports ext3 |
| 23:50:39 | Chestal | captain_proton: I will do tomorrow |
| 23:50:50 | captain_proton | how many hours away is that from now? =} |
| 23:50:52 | Chestal | I have to go to bed soon, need to get up in about 5 hours |
| 23:51:26 | captain_proton | well i'm gonna go eat |
| 23:51:33 | Chestal | I have to supervise some written exam at 9 AM :-( |
| 23:51:38 | iLLf8d | hey cap whats the scoop with bandwidth and bzflag? |
| 23:51:46 | captain_proton | iLLf8d: what do you mean? |
| 23:51:49 | iLLf8d | any chance we can get some actual numbers with 1.8 |
| 23:51:56 | captain_proton | yes |
| 23:51:59 | iLLf8d | as to how much it takes |
| 23:52:02 | captain_proton | 1.8 will have a ping message |
| 23:52:03 | Chestal | ill: it will decrease some with 1.8 |
| 23:52:13 | captain_proton | that too |
| 23:52:22 | iLLf8d | I was wondering if an sdsl with a high bandwidth would handle a number of fields |
| 23:52:33 | captain_proton | sdsl - maybe - 1.5? |
| 23:52:34 | iLLf8d | perhaps sell field hosting |
| 23:52:44 | captain_proton | people won't buy field hosting |
| 23:52:44 | Chestal | ill: 2 fields with n players each shoudl be easier to handle than one field with 2n players |
| 23:52:47 | iLLf8d | so people can have their own even with a suckyass connection |
| 23:53:00 | captain_proton | ok i'm off |
| 23:53:04 | iLLf8d | sell not to make money but to get a ton of different fields up |
| 23:53:04 | Chestal | be capt |
| 23:53:30 | iLLf8d | hmm |
| 23:53:50 | BZFlag | 1.7 in cvs now has server msg stats rolled back from 1.8 work. |
| 23:54:05 | Chestal | on my CTF server with a maximum of 8 players and server-side-throttlign enabled, I get a maximum of about 900 msgs/s sent by the server |
| 23:54:55 | BZFlag | Chestal: grab the 1.7 stats stuff I did and add that to your server. |
| 23:55:34 | Chestal | BZfag: m patchwork 1.7e3 server has its own stats :-) |
| 23:56:26 | Chestal | they're a little different |
| 23:56:38 | Chestal | oh my, 2AM already, and I am not tired |
| 23:58:37 | Chestal | I better go to bed, good night |