| 00:00.00 | larsl_56k | __STDC__ ? =) |
| 00:00.19 | patlabor221 | let me check msdn |
| 00:00.37 | larsl_56k | If it is, it should break when you turn it on. |
| 00:01.07 | patlabor221 | I don't think I can turn it on |
| 00:01.14 | patlabor221 | it seems to be defined |
| 00:01.18 | larsl_56k | I haven't seen it anywhere else though, all the libs compiled. |
| 00:01.35 | larsl_56k | And all the other programs. |
| 00:01.51 | patlabor221 | I'm building browse info now to see where it's defed |
| 00:02.52 | larsl_56k | I have to get my brother some more RAM, this is unbearable. |
| 00:02.58 | patlabor221 | how much? |
| 00:03.35 | larsl_56k | I have 512MB at home, that's usally enough. =) |
| 00:03.41 | larsl_56k | Almost 10 times as much as here. |
| 00:03.43 | patlabor221 | now how much does he have? |
| 00:03.50 | patlabor221 | eww 64? |
| 00:03.55 | patlabor221 | or 96 |
| 00:04.01 | larsl_56k | 64MB, with a couple of MBs used by the graphics card. |
| 00:04.22 | patlabor221 | well it's not a graphic card then is it |
| 00:04.44 | larsl_56k | The graphics thing. |
| 00:04.54 | patlabor221 | problby the mobo chipset |
| 00:05.03 | patlabor221 | not even a real graphics device |
| 00:05.16 | patlabor221 | usualy using them slows down the mobo chipset |
| 00:05.24 | patlabor221 | get the boy a GF2MX at least :) |
| 00:05.33 | larsl_56k | That's what I have. =) |
| 00:05.53 | patlabor221 | heh that's the slowest card I would put in anything these days :) |
| 00:05.58 | Mayhem | with cheating Nvidia drivers :) |
| 00:06.08 | patlabor221 | hey they work |
| 00:06.16 | patlabor221 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:06.28 | patlabor221 | cus realy what other choice do you have? |
| 00:06.36 | Mayhem | not criticising :) |
| 00:06.37 | patlabor221 | for a cheap card with hardware support |
| 00:06.58 | patlabor221 | I hear ATI dosn't even have linux drivers for it's 7000 line |
| 00:07.10 | patlabor221 | and that's the only thing close in price to the MX line |
| 00:07.29 | patlabor221 | does matrox have a low end card? |
| 00:07.34 | patlabor221 | ewwwwww |
| 00:07.48 | patlabor221 | I have a voodoo 5 that we just point at and laugh |
| 00:07.52 | Mayhem | bzflag needs no more than that... |
| 00:08.10 | patlabor221 | true |
| 00:08.16 | patlabor221 | not yet anyway :) |
| 00:08.26 | patlabor221 | it is my plan to make everyone with out a GPU cry |
| 00:08.27 | patlabor221 | :) |
| 00:08.33 | Mayhem | some people still play in software... |
| 00:08.35 | patlabor221 | maybe even cry blood. |
| 00:08.41 | Mayhem | damn you! |
| 00:08.57 | Mayhem | we should be working on low res, high speed wireframe rendering! |
| 00:09.04 | patlabor221 | the software people can play the text version |
| 00:09.06 | larsl_56k | Because they can't run in high res mode, or because they can't run at all? |
| 00:09.10 | patlabor221 | "you see a tank in front of you" |
| 00:09.16 | patlabor221 | "shoot tank" |
| 00:09.17 | Mayhem | hahaha |
| 00:09.19 | patlabor221 | "you blow up" |
| 00:09.48 | patlabor221 | ohh everything I have an idea for could be turned off for the softies |
| 00:10.04 | patlabor221 | actualy some of them will even speed up for the softies |
| 00:10.21 | patlabor221 | but the hardware people will have sometiung that looks GOOD. |
| 00:10.21 | larsl_56k | playing.cxx compiled - only a few files left now... |
| 00:11.03 | Mayhem | flair? |
| 00:11.04 | Mayhem | have you seen office space? |
| 00:11.16 | patlabor221 | yes |
| 00:11.32 | patlabor221 | how bout just a flamethower on the tank, no flag? |
| 00:11.51 | larsl_56k | That would work too. |
| 00:12.05 | Mayhem | could be short range like MG |
| 00:12.34 | patlabor221 | tho since BZ dosn't do "dammage" I don't see how it would be other then a wide shot, that has a cool effect |
| 00:12.53 | Mayhem | maybe like a continuous 'stream' shot |
| 00:13.12 | larsl_56k | A standing conical shockwave. |
| 00:13.15 | Mayhem | tanks killed with it burn in place instead of exploding |
| 00:13.19 | patlabor221 | yeah kinda |
| 00:13.49 | patlabor221 | but I think stuff needs to be done in other areas before new flags |
| 00:13.55 | Mayhem | indeed |
| 00:13.57 | larsl_56k | Yes. |
| 00:14.10 | patlabor221 | like flair |
| 00:14.26 | Mayhem | stuff flair, how bout a sane network protocol |
| 00:14.51 | patlabor221 | the protocoll is ok, it's the server that isn't sane |
| 00:15.16 | Mayhem | fair distinction |
| 00:15.29 | patlabor221 | but yes, that needs to be done too |
| 00:16.03 | patlabor221 | and since no bz feature is ever co-op, each person can do something on there own, so it's good to come up with lots of ideas |
| 00:16.07 | larsl_56k | Linking... |
| 00:16.41 | patlabor221 | my god, I actualy got all the right headers? |
| 00:16.47 | larsl_56k | Yep. =) |
| 00:16.51 | patlabor221 | amazing |
| 00:16.54 | patlabor221 | I just guessed |
| 00:17.01 | larsl_56k | It linked! |
| 00:17.05 | patlabor221 | damn |
| 00:17.15 | larsl_56k | Everything was buildable on MinGW? |
| 00:17.20 | larsl_56k | s/?/!/ |
| 00:17.35 | *** join/#bzflag KR (~root@cae168-234-054.sc.rr.com) |
| 00:17.38 | patlabor221 | well then I guess I should keep those libs around |
| 00:17.50 | KR | hi all |
| 00:17.56 | larsl_56k | I'm afraid to run it, it will probably crash. |
| 00:18.04 | patlabor221 | aww try it |
| 00:18.16 | KR | have a question for Linux users... |
| 00:18.30 | KR | where should I find the bzflag executable? |
| 00:18.50 | Mayhem | umm, have you tried 'which bzflag'? |
| 00:18.50 | patlabor221 | did you build it or install from an rpm? |
| 00:18.55 | KR | benn looking looking and cant find it although apt and synaptic both say I have it... |
| 00:19.05 | KR | install from .deb |
| 00:19.06 | Mayhem | you installed the deb? |
| 00:19.16 | KR | yes |
| 00:19.18 | Mayhem | /usr/games/bzflag |
| 00:19.21 | patlabor221 | then i think it's in some user/share/bin thing |
| 00:19.26 | Mayhem | thats where it is on my system |
| 00:19.46 | Mayhem | debian puts games there... |
| 00:20.27 | Mayhem | do a 'dpkg -L bzflag' to see what files it put where |
| 00:20.29 | larsl_56k | Can't you list the files belonging to a certain package? |
| 00:20.29 | KR | hmm its in neither - argh |
| 00:20.45 | larsl_56k | It crashed. |
| 00:20.48 | KR | tried find function bzf*.* no luck |
| 00:20.51 | patlabor221 | can't you just locate bzflag it? |
| 00:20.57 | Mayhem | are you sure its installed? |
| 00:21.26 | Mayhem | apt-get install bzflag bzfs |
| 00:21.27 | KR | it is according to synaptic and apt-get |
| 00:21.42 | Mayhem | what does the dpkg -L say? |
| 00:21.42 | KR | thats what is driving me nutso |
| 00:21.52 | larsl_56k | When Windows says that a program crashed and an error log hs been generated, where does that error log go? |
| 00:22.01 | patlabor221 | in mem |
| 00:22.07 | patlabor221 | tell it to show you details |
| 00:22.16 | fiberchunks | lo |
| 00:22.22 | patlabor221 | it will aso put it in the system event log |
| 00:22.22 | Mayhem | hi |
| 00:22.22 | larsl_56k | It crashed badly. |
| 00:22.30 | patlabor221 | what did it puke on? |
| 00:22.33 | larsl_56k | I can't unminimize the window. |
| 00:22.41 | patlabor221 | alt + f4 |
| 00:23.09 | larsl_56k | That killed it. |
| 00:23.12 | patlabor221 | yeah |
| 00:23.21 | patlabor221 | what did the log say? |
| 00:23.26 | larsl_56k | Where is that? |
| 00:23.33 | patlabor221 | controll panels |
| 00:23.36 | patlabor221 | event viewer |
| 00:24.04 | patlabor221 | actualy it's in admin tools under 2k It hink |
| 00:24.10 | KR | ok, ,found it, although Konq didnt show it in usr/games, , it'll work if I put whole path into shell command... |
| 00:24.12 | patlabor221 | it'll be in the app log |
| 00:24.39 | KR | odd, doesn't work that way in any other distro I'm usinfgg... |
| 00:24.55 | Mayhem | what, Konquerer or bzflag? |
| 00:25.01 | KR | thx for help |
| 00:25.07 | KR | bzflag |
| 00:25.28 | KR | normally I just fire it up w/"bzflag" in shell |
| 00:25.38 | KR | no path to usr/games |
| 00:25.40 | Mayhem | just 'bzflag' should work fine... |
| 00:25.45 | Mayhem | unless you are root |
| 00:25.49 | KR | thast what I thought too :) |
| 00:25.53 | Mayhem | as /usr/games isn't in roots path |
| 00:26.02 | KR | doh! |
| 00:26.16 | Mayhem | You aren't running it as root!?!?!? |
| 00:26.18 | larsl_56k | The latest log entry is from 30 minutes ago. |
| 00:26.21 | KR | well, there ya go... |
| 00:26.31 | Mayhem | learn something every day... ;) |
| 00:26.32 | patlabor221 | you didn't tell by ibots message:) |
| 00:26.41 | patlabor221 | hmmmm |
| 00:26.43 | KR | no but I just did a dist-upgrade as root, and was still logged in |
| 00:26.56 | larsl_56k | I'll run it again and see what it says. |
| 00:27.04 | larsl_56k | Can I use -window on Win32? |
| 00:27.04 | KR | hehe |
| 00:27.07 | patlabor221 | it should give the module that piked |
| 00:27.08 | patlabor221 | sure |
| 00:27.20 | patlabor221 | -window -geometry 640x480 |
| 00:27.51 | KR | ok thx again - c u on the battlefield... |
| 00:27.57 | Mayhem | cya KR |
| 00:31.01 | fiberchunks | hey patlabor221, got a graphics design q for ya |
| 00:31.34 | patlabor221 | okeys |
| 00:31.46 | patlabor221 | never use a font that is named after a city |
| 00:32.12 | fiberchunks | if i've got a 22xx X 1700 image (which takes up about 2M / pic, and is stored in .jpeg), what are the steps I should take to reduce the image size, and the file size? |
| 00:32.34 | patlabor221 | in gimp? |
| 00:32.39 | fiberchunks | yah |
| 00:32.43 | patlabor221 | for like web viewing? |
| 00:32.48 | fiberchunks | yes |
| 00:32.58 | patlabor221 | make the size ile 1/4 what it is |
| 00:33.01 | patlabor221 | and save it as a jpeg |
| 00:33.13 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-62-11-15-134.dialup.tiscali.it) |
| 00:33.30 | fiberchunks | like, i'd like to create a thumbnail, and a 640x480 image (hopefully in 1/5 the space) |
| 00:33.37 | patlabor221 | ok |
| 00:33.38 | fiberchunks | make the size ile? |
| 00:33.43 | patlabor221 | just resize away then |
| 00:33.55 | patlabor221 | use the scale image func |
| 00:34.11 | patlabor221 | I wonder how gimp reamples |
| 00:34.24 | larsl_56k | This time it said that an error log had been generated, but I found nothing new in the event log. =P |
| 00:34.25 | fiberchunks | well, i resized the image (crop and scaling, but the file size doesn't really go down that much)... I wonder if there's a script-fu for thumbnails? |
| 00:34.36 | fiberchunks | scale image -- mkay -- lemme try that out |
| 00:34.57 | patlabor221 | when you scale use the pixel dimensions not the print dimensions |
| 00:35.08 | patlabor221 | that will jsut change teh DPi and not change the file size |
| 00:35.22 | fiberchunks | ah, ic |
| 00:35.26 | patlabor221 | there is no standard size for thumbnails |
| 00:35.40 | patlabor221 | you want to change the actual pixel data, and throw away pixels |
| 00:35.53 | patlabor221 | use the "ratio" part to keep it the same aspect |
| 00:36.02 | patlabor221 | god the gimp interface sucks |
| 00:36.22 | fiberchunks | i agree there :\ but it does have some nice features for being completely free |
| 00:36.38 | patlabor221 | true, but free should not = sucxor |
| 00:36.51 | fiberchunks | i hate the 'multiple' dialog box thang -- wish they'd make an integrated environment for it |
| 00:36.57 | Mayhem | the interface is fine once you get used to it |
| 00:37.02 | patlabor221 | just seems like the devs care about tech features, not the usablility of it |
| 00:37.10 | fiberchunks | hehe, geeks :) |
| 00:37.15 | Mayhem | yeah, nothing new there :) |
| 00:37.25 | patlabor221 | no it's not, the scale dialog dosn't have a way to keep a aspect and enter a pixel value |
| 00:37.45 | larsl_56k | It doesn't? |
| 00:37.49 | Mayhem | yes it does... |
| 00:37.50 | patlabor221 | ohh it does it's jut wierd |
| 00:37.53 | patlabor221 | yeah I see it now |
| 00:37.55 | patlabor221 | it's wierd |
| 00:38.01 | larsl_56k | Isn't that what the links are fore? |
| 00:38.03 | larsl_56k | for |
| 00:38.08 | patlabor221 | yes |
| 00:38.09 | Mayhem | so are you, but we don't complain :p |
| 00:38.30 | patlabor221 | where a checkbox that says "maintain aspect ratio" would do fine, they have an arbitrary picture |
| 00:38.40 | patlabor221 | hence my statement of "the interface sucks" :) |
| 00:39.03 | patlabor221 | lots of extra cicks compared to photoshop |
| 00:39.24 | patlabor221 | but it does do a nubmer of usefull things |
| 00:39.34 | Mayhem | it could be argued that the 'link' thing is more intuitive... |
| 00:39.54 | patlabor221 | it could be, but remember most people are stupid |
| 00:39.54 | fiberchunks | alrighty, lemme try and fiddle with this image |
| 00:40.16 | Mayhem | yeah, and stupid people don't know what 'aspect ratio' means |
| 00:40.26 | larsl_56k | =) |
| 00:41.01 | patlabor221 | at least it would be a checkbox, a standard interface element, I didn't even know you could click on it |
| 00:41.14 | patlabor221 | and if it had a tooltip then it coudl explain what aspect ratio was. |
| 00:41.26 | Mayhem | bitch, bitch, bitch :) |
| 00:41.27 | fiberchunks | which interpolation should i use? |
| 00:41.36 | patlabor221 | does it hve bicubic? |
| 00:41.46 | fiberchunks | cubic |
| 00:41.54 | patlabor221 | what choices are there? |
| 00:42.06 | fiberchunks | cubic, none, and linear |
| 00:42.12 | patlabor221 | cubic then |
| 00:42.17 | fiberchunks | mkay |
| 00:43.01 | patlabor221 | if GTK didn't suck so bad on windows I would try to tweak gimp |
| 00:43.15 | patlabor221 | it does suck less now tho |
| 00:43.49 | fiberchunks | save the 640x480 as a .jpg or a .png (which one reduces file size the most? |
| 00:44.09 | patlabor221 | well in gimp you can set the compression so the png may be small as well |
| 00:44.20 | fiberchunks | mkay -- lemme try both then |
| 00:45.01 | patlabor221 | heh I could call it "gimpshop" |
| 00:45.06 | fiberchunks | wow, that reduced it by about 10x |
| 00:45.52 | fiberchunks | what's a good size for a thumbnail / full size pic? |
| 00:46.01 | fiberchunks | thumbnail, what 100x100? |
| 00:46.12 | fiberchunks | full size 1024x768? |
| 00:46.37 | patlabor221 | I usualy try tumbs at 160x120 or so if I want them good |
| 00:46.42 | patlabor221 | some go as low as 80x80 |
| 00:46.59 | patlabor221 | 1024 is usualy fine |
| 00:47.08 | patlabor221 | some say 800x600 |
| 00:47.39 | fiberchunks | cool, thx |
| 00:50.08 | Tupone | captain_proton: new patch is coming |
| 00:50.24 | patlabor221 | what kind? |
| 00:50.40 | Tupone | Just to use config.h on the macro definition |
| 00:50.46 | Tupone | instead of |
| 00:51.01 | patlabor221 | the -d crap? |
| 00:51.21 | Tupone | to avoid a lot of -D... |
| 00:51.50 | patlabor221 | then nothing I care about :) |
| 00:52.02 | Tupone | :( |
| 00:52.14 | patlabor221 | I don't build on leeenox |
| 00:52.26 | fiberchunks | patlabor221: i'm looking at the 'save as png' dialog box - and there's all sorts of fargin options i don't understand... |
| 00:52.35 | patlabor221 | let me see |
| 00:53.03 | Tupone | patlabor221: Where are you building? |
| 00:53.11 | fiberchunks | should i eliminate the 'save resolution' checkbox, and up the compression? |
| 00:53.12 | patlabor221 | just up the the compression level |
| 00:53.23 | fiberchunks | what bout the resolution thang? it's checked on my end |
| 00:53.28 | patlabor221 | the res checkbox don't matter |
| 00:53.34 | patlabor221 | it's just the DPI |
| 00:53.34 | fiberchunks | mkay |
| 00:53.37 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 00:53.42 | patlabor221 | just up the commpresion |
| 00:53.50 | patlabor221 | if that don't go try jpeg |
| 00:54.04 | patlabor221 | tupone, on the platform that just builds, winderz :) |
| 00:54.23 | fiberchunks | well, now that's interesting -- upping the compression level, with a smaller pic size (scaled like you said) -- makes the file bigger! :\ |
| 00:54.49 | patlabor221 | it may be a quality slider |
| 00:54.51 | patlabor221 | lower it |
| 00:54.54 | fiberchunks | mkay |
| 00:55.13 | Tupone | patlabor221: New building system will use that facility also on windows via mingw32 |
| 00:55.36 | patlabor221 | yes I know, but why would I want to use that when I can just hit F7 |
| 00:55.36 | fiberchunks | nope, it is compression, but it don't work, imho :\ |
| 00:55.43 | patlabor221 | heh |
| 00:55.48 | patlabor221 | then try jpeg |
| 00:56.14 | fiberchunks | jpeg produces a nice tight file size -- but that is odd, isn't it? (mebbe the conversion from jpeg to png garbles things? |
| 00:56.25 | patlabor221 | jpeg compression is lossy |
| 00:56.39 | patlabor221 | png is losless, it may be as small as it can get with out losing data. |
| 00:56.43 | patlabor221 | so you will have to lose data |
| 00:56.47 | fiberchunks | ah, forgot about that |
| 00:59.21 | fiberchunks | check your mail |
| 00:59.58 | patlabor221 | owwie |
| 01:00.11 | fiberchunks | nice huh :) |
| 01:00.12 | patlabor221 | 88k thats fine |
| 01:00.14 | patlabor221 | yeah |
| 01:00.42 | fiberchunks | that file size shouldn't be too bad for 56k users, should it (esp since it'll be linked to with a thumbnail) |
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| 01:24.18 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-62-11-15-134.dialup.tiscali.it) |
| 01:40.44 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~jeffm@adsl-67-115-244-129.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 01:40.44 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
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| 02:06.47 | fiberchunks | neo! |
| 02:07.45 | patlabor221 | move along nothing to see here |
| 02:16.42 | patlabor221 | I am ordering my kfj on monday |
| 02:21.22 | fiberchunks | really, cool... which one, and from where? |
| 02:21.31 | patlabor221 | the black one |
| 02:21.43 | patlabor221 | from chinasprout or something like that |
| 02:21.48 | fiberchunks | with white buttons, or all black |
| 02:25.28 | patlabor221 | white buttons and cufs |
| 02:26.29 | fiberchunks | sweet |
| 02:28.10 | fiberchunks | d00dz \/\/1ll ph33r j00! |
| 02:28.16 | fiberchunks | :) |
| 02:30.36 | patlabor221 | I just hope I go "fwooooosh" when I walk |
| 02:30.47 | patlabor221 | did you ever see iorn monkey? |
| 02:34.25 | patlabor221 | wh000t for peer |
| 02:34.28 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka (WOZNIAK@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 02:34.28 | doughecka | greetings |
| 02:34.42 | patlabor221 | awwww, p33r suxors |
| 02:38.09 | fiberchunks | patlabor221: no, haven't gotten iron monkey yet :\ |
| 02:39.59 | fiberchunks | glad you mentioned that, just fired mldonkey back up to finish gettin it |
| 02:40.20 | patlabor221 | it's good |
| 02:40.36 | fiberchunks | what was the other one you mentioned Iron Fist? |
| 02:40.55 | patlabor221 | no I don't reacall a fist one |
| 02:40.58 | fiberchunks | Yuen Wo Ping is the dude's name right? |
| 02:41.12 | fiberchunks | or is it Wuen Yo Ping? |
| 02:41.20 | patlabor221 | yeah |
| 02:41.24 | patlabor221 | he is the director |
| 02:41.33 | patlabor221 | did the action stuff for the matrix and CTHD |
| 02:42.02 | fiberchunks | yeah, that's why i'd like to see more of his work -- those are prob my top 2 movies of all time (cept for blazing saddles :) ) |
| 02:42.30 | patlabor221 | once upon a time in china is good too |
| 02:42.51 | fiberchunks | that's a Jet Li flick, ain't it? think ive seen that one |
| 02:42.56 | patlabor221 | yes |
| 02:42.59 | patlabor221 | there are 6 of them |
| 02:43.16 | fiberchunks | different versions, or I,II,III, etc? |
| 02:43.24 | patlabor221 | 6 parts |
| 02:43.27 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 02:43.39 | patlabor221 | story of wong fe houng |
| 02:43.47 | patlabor221 | he is the kid in iron moneky |
| 02:48.40 | fiberchunks | ah, so monkey is the prequel |
| 02:49.21 | patlabor221 | kinda |
| 02:49.45 | patlabor221 | it's not a direct tie in, it's just he's there |
| 02:49.51 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 02:50.01 | patlabor221 | with his dad |
| 02:50.30 | patlabor221 | do not mess with his dad, I repeat do NOT mess with his dad :) |
| 02:50.35 | fiberchunks | i've got a dvd of a kid with Jet Li (can't rem the name) who kicks serious ass in the film (kid's like _maybe_ 7 years old) |
| 02:50.58 | patlabor221 | iron monkey dosn't have jet li in it |
| 02:51.16 | *** join/#bzflag sussudio (Suss@81.68.134.159) |
| 02:51.18 | fiberchunks | yeha, it's not that -- some other badly dubbed gung-fu movie :) |
| 03:01.54 | sussudio | yay. |
| 03:02.08 | patlabor221 | that worked? |
| 03:09.02 | sussudio | appearently |
| 03:14.04 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka (WOZNIAK@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 03:14.04 | doughecka | greetings |
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| 03:38.47 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (1000@ky-owensboro1a-242.owboky.adelphia.net) |
| 03:39.07 | michaelh2 | - |
| 03:39.32 | patlabor221 | + |
| 03:39.41 | bryjen | * |
| 03:40.17 | sussudio | +++ATH0 |
| 03:40.32 | patlabor221 | % |
| 03:42.39 | michaelh2 | CONNECT 14000 |
| 03:43.00 | michaelh2 | bryjen -- don't normally see you here :) |
| 03:44.07 | bryjen | heh. @14000 I probly go by too fast ;) |
| 03:44.26 | michaelh2 | pat -- do we really need to have the bzflag.exe stuck in the src/bzflag dir for windows? |
| 03:44.43 | patlabor221 | yes |
| 03:44.59 | patlabor221 | since you can now use automake on gcc on windows to build |
| 03:45.04 | michaelh2 | ah so |
| 03:45.05 | patlabor221 | in adition to vc |
| 03:45.16 | michaelh2 | just looks ugly.... |
| 03:45.20 | patlabor221 | and the installer should work with any build system on windows, so I went LCD |
| 03:45.21 | patlabor221 | yeah |
| 03:45.47 | patlabor221 | I may add a post build step to copy the ext and the pdbs to a bin folder |
| 03:45.53 | patlabor221 | or a test folder or something |
| 03:46.03 | patlabor221 | to ease debugin |
| 03:57.15 | sussudio | ah fuck |
| 03:57.23 | sussudio | anyone with rosemeyers admin here? |
| 03:59.13 | michaelh2 | me |
| 03:59.18 | michaelh2 | not |
| 03:59.37 | michaelh2 | cheater? |
| 03:59.39 | sussudio | snort. |
| 03:59.41 | sussudio | spoogebob. |
| 04:00.05 | bryjen | not I |
| 04:00.27 | michaelh2 | need to develope my torture patch..... |
| 04:00.51 | michaelh2 | stop all shots from them, make them drop their flags, random shots at them, etc.. :) |
| 04:01.02 | sussudio | :-B |
| 04:01.52 | michaelh2 | might not be a bad idea some respects |
| 04:01.57 | bryjen | It always sounds nice, but cheating to annoy the cheater is just lowering yourself to their level :( |
| 04:02.06 | michaelh2 | can certainly stop all their shots and their messages |
| 04:02.19 | michaelh2 | i mean from the server level |
| 04:03.18 | michaelh2 | just add some admin command to do it |
| 04:04.03 | bryjen | stopping invalid (cheat) shots is good. |
| 04:04.03 | bryjen | errr, you'd still need to find an admin to toggle it in. |
| 04:04.19 | bryjen | Meebee the permission system will encourage server owners to delegate and we'll get more admin coverage :) |
| 04:04.31 | michaelh2 | heh |
| 04:06.17 | michaelh2 | the bz executable is slowly increasing in size :) |
| 04:07.02 | michaelh2 | I have 900k -- the old g0 version is 512k |
| 04:07.09 | michaelh2 | under windows |
| 04:07.19 | michaelh2 | some of that is from switching to the stl |
| 04:08.00 | michaelh2 | not sure if that is of *any* significance to anyone these days |
| 04:08.24 | michaelh2 | or if performance is being effected |
| 04:08.57 | michaelh2 | doesn't seem to.. even on my crusty system |
| 04:09.20 | bryjen | hmmm 900k < 256MB RAM < 10GB HDD. no worries. |
| 04:10.07 | *** join/#bzflag scanline (~micah@12-252-175-3.client.attbi.com) |
| 04:10.50 | bryjen | if it werent for the 3*10^6 bytes of textures and sound you could run it from a floppy ;) |
| 04:11.21 | sussudio | spiff needs to die irl |
| 04:11.37 | michaelh2 | wondering about people w/ ancient systems.... |
| 04:11.48 | michaelh2 | performance really, more than anything |
| 04:13.25 | bryjen | bloat is bad(tm). but, as others have noted, performance probly has more to due with gfx bus bandwidth and co-proc speed. |
| 04:17.56 | bryjen | ibot bzfquery 63.147.94.149 |
| 04:18.08 | bryjen | ah, it does still work :) |
| 04:18.23 | bryjen | just nobody home :( |
| 04:18.38 | michaelh2 | sysread fails certain times if that's the same bzfquery |
| 04:19.10 | michaelh2 | might take a couple of reads instead of the 1 it's looking for |
| 04:19.57 | bryjen | ibot bzfquery 63.147.94.149 |
| 04:20.38 | michaelh2 | ibot bzfquery aaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....ddddddddddddd(((((((((((()))))))))***********.1 |
| 04:20.46 | sussudio | bryjen: the fpu seems to be irrelevant |
| 04:21.01 | bryjen | fpwho? |
| 04:21.08 | sussudio | :-P |
| 04:21.13 | sussudio | F P U. |
| 04:21.18 | sussudio | floating processing unit? |
| 04:21.21 | sussudio | co-pro? |
| 04:21.44 | michaelh2 | ah well -- I guess it's clear as day any modern system would run it fine |
| 04:22.08 | bryjen | Oh. Floating Point Unit. No I meant graphics co-processor i.e. the processor on the video card. |
| 04:22.20 | sussudio | gpu? |
| 04:22.25 | michaelh2 | the gpoo.... |
| 04:22.27 | michaelh2 | :) |
| 04:22.44 | bryjen | not usually called a _co_ processor, but its a processor and its _co_operative |
| 04:22.56 | sussudio | bzflag runs like crap on my mother's XP1600 with TNT2 vanta compared to my Athlon 800 with radeon aiw |
| 04:23.13 | patlabor221 | ohh we couud compress the texutres, it's the sounds |
| 04:23.47 | patlabor221 | the radieon has the GPU it does speed BZ up, for the stuff that is in a list |
| 04:24.04 | michaelh2 | the gl_list things? |
| 04:24.08 | patlabor221 | yes |
| 04:24.14 | patlabor221 | lists are sent to the card |
| 04:24.16 | patlabor221 | if it has a gpu |
| 04:24.20 | patlabor221 | less bus trafic |
| 04:24.23 | bryjen | Leave the sounds alone. Is wery important to get maximum fidelity ven ewil opponent explodes ;) |
| 04:24.26 | patlabor221 | wayyyyyyy les |
| 04:24.44 | patlabor221 | ogg would have better quality and be smaller |
| 04:24.59 | patlabor221 | teh current waves are 8 bit sterio 22 hz, that's ass |
| 04:25.06 | bryjen | didnt 1.8 go with ogg ? |
| 04:25.19 | patlabor221 | yes |
| 04:25.20 | michaelh2 | yeppers |
| 04:25.55 | michaelh2 | heeeeeeee haaaawwwwwwwww |
| 04:26.06 | patlabor221 | you can get extra double ass by going 11 khz mono |
| 04:26.16 | fiberchunks | 2x ass :) |
| 04:26.20 | patlabor221 | yes |
| 04:26.23 | *** join/#bzflag NinjaSocks (~jeffm@adsl-67-115-244-129.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 04:26.31 | bryjen | Nyet. Ass must be stereo. |
| 04:26.38 | michaelh2 | I see the cvs orgy has slowed down lately |
| 04:26.39 | fiberchunks | ooo, aren't we multiple personalities tonight :) |
| 04:26.48 | patlabor221 | comp swap |
| 04:26.52 | fiberchunks | ah ha |
| 04:26.57 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 04:26.58 | fiberchunks | home? |
| 04:27.08 | bryjen | Pitr http://www.userfriendly.org/ |
| 04:27.11 | patlabor221 | yeah, have 3 machiens on now |
| 04:27.24 | fiberchunks | how many total boxen in the patlabor221 household? |
| 04:27.34 | patlabor221 | yes all the patches are in for g2, now it's just making sure automake works |
| 04:27.42 | patlabor221 | working computers? that boot and stuff? |
| 04:27.51 | patlabor221 | 3 right now |
| 04:27.52 | fiberchunks | yeah |
| 04:27.57 | michaelh2 | I have piles of cdrom drives |
| 04:28.06 | michaelh2 | they seem to die the most |
| 04:28.09 | patlabor221 | there are parts for bout 2 more decent ones |
| 04:28.14 | patlabor221 | and 4 more crap ones |
| 04:28.18 | fiberchunks | oo, that reminds me, gotta get a new dvd drive for one of my boxen |
| 04:28.19 | fiberchunks | :\ |
| 04:28.24 | patlabor221 | ohh sorry 4 bootables |
| 04:28.26 | patlabor221 | forgot the mac |
| 04:28.35 | bryjen | I've got a stack of 8x drives at work if you need an emergency replacement |
| 04:28.38 | fiberchunks | poor apple, always left unattended :) |
| 04:28.45 | patlabor221 | well it's very important |
| 04:28.49 | patlabor221 | holds up the monitor shelf |
| 04:28.51 | sussudio | it's saying cvs server: Updating include/vorbis still.... |
| 04:29.01 | michaelh2 | I think you are a bit far away bryjen :) |
| 04:29.05 | fiberchunks | nah, not critical, don't play dvd worth a hoot anyway (even with the dxr3 card) |
| 04:29.06 | sussudio | snooort. |
| 04:29.09 | patlabor221 | you got 1.8 susuido? |
| 04:29.13 | sussudio | no. |
| 04:29.25 | bryjen | surely 8x is worthy of overnight shipping ? ;) |
| 04:29.38 | fiberchunks | well, the apache channel is less than useful :\ |
| 04:29.39 | patlabor221 | odd then, 1.7 dosn't use vorb |
| 04:29.47 | sussudio | *shrug*. |
| 04:29.48 | bryjen | or meebee a catapulting..... |
| 04:29.55 | michaelh2 | My current drive is fine, I just notice that dead cdrom drives is what I seem to accumulate |
| 04:30.05 | michaelh2 | or half working.... |
| 04:30.18 | patlabor221 | fiber, this is what we have |
| 04:30.19 | patlabor221 | http://www.rgpsales.com/RGPmedia/ |
| 04:31.11 | patlabor221 | looks like 35 is the goin rate for dvds |
| 04:31.58 | fiberchunks | patlabor221: any dvd-r's in there? |
| 04:32.11 | fiberchunks | didn't see any... |
| 04:32.17 | patlabor221 | I know we cary some |
| 04:32.43 | patlabor221 | they are like 150-180 ish |
| 04:33.08 | fiberchunks | jeez, you guys are uber cheap |
| 04:33.13 | patlabor221 | thre is a toshiba for 179 |
| 04:33.31 | patlabor221 | well we try :) |
| 04:33.35 | bryjen | http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.asp?EDC=457093 |
| 04:33.40 | fiberchunks | wholesalers? |
| 04:34.07 | patlabor221 | shit that's spensive |
| 04:34.16 | patlabor221 | we have a couple distubutors we go thur |
| 04:34.16 | fiberchunks | bryjen, that work in linux ---- fully ? |
| 04:34.41 | bryjen | not sure. just window shopping. and a little drooling |
| 04:34.47 | fiberchunks | ah |
| 04:35.03 | bryjen | I've had two Sony CDRW that worked really nice |
| 04:35.17 | patlabor221 | we have the DWU10a for 319 |
| 04:35.24 | patlabor221 | sony's are nice |
| 04:36.39 | fiberchunks | 2 liteon drives right now that are the balls, and no worries about future talladega, tallyhook, whatever the hell that DRM thing is that's coming down the pike |
| 04:37.14 | fiberchunks | oh yeah -- palladium -- that's it :\ |
| 04:37.40 | patlabor221 | looks like that toshiba at 179 is the lowest we have now |
| 04:37.48 | patlabor221 | I've used a toshiba worked fine |
| 04:38.00 | fiberchunks | in windows or leenox :) |
| 04:38.08 | patlabor221 | windows |
| 04:38.25 | patlabor221 | it is just a bare drive for that price, you no software |
| 04:39.14 | fiberchunks | yeah, OEM, which is usually what i buy anyway |
| 04:45.09 | patlabor221 | awwww we don't have the kewl keyboard anymore |
| 04:49.17 | fiberchunks | the one that rolls up and is waterproof :) |
| 04:49.22 | patlabor221 | no |
| 04:49.31 | patlabor221 | the "microsoft internet pro USB" |
| 04:49.38 | patlabor221 | the one I have here |
| 04:49.56 | fiberchunks | what's kewl bout it? |
| 04:50.21 | patlabor221 | it's USB |
| 04:50.27 | patlabor221 | has "extra" buttons |
| 04:50.32 | patlabor221 | and a 2 port UB hub in it |
| 04:50.40 | fiberchunks | like the hub part |
| 04:50.42 | patlabor221 | so I have 2 USb ports right on the back of the keyboard |
| 04:50.50 | patlabor221 | the extra buttons also make sense |
| 04:50.55 | patlabor221 | controll themedia player |
| 04:50.55 | fiberchunks | never did try and fiddle with the extra buttons on my board. |
| 04:51.16 | patlabor221 | and do stuff like a button to bring up the calculator right over they keybad |
| 04:51.22 | patlabor221 | make it handy |
| 04:51.31 | patlabor221 | it also has volume controlls on it, and that's nice |
| 04:52.12 | patlabor221 | and it seems the software is un obrusive, I pulged it in, hit play and it brought winamp right up |
| 04:53.02 | patlabor221 | and it's got a nice shape and feel |
| 04:53.05 | patlabor221 | not flimsy |
| 04:53.10 | fiberchunks | i'd have to do some x and keyboard voodoo to get everything working right under leenox |
| 04:53.14 | patlabor221 | and a built in wrist wrest |
| 04:53.28 | fiberchunks | is it one of them ergonomic ones? I only use those with desktops |
| 04:53.28 | patlabor221 | I don't know, it shows up as a normal HID |
| 04:53.41 | patlabor221 | no not the full "broken" ones |
| 04:53.50 | patlabor221 | just "nice" |
| 04:53.52 | fiberchunks | yeah -- but then you have to map keys and what they should do so X can handle 'em |
| 04:53.56 | bryjen | gnome2 has an applet thingy to help you map keys to stuff |
| 04:54.05 | fiberchunks | cool, didn't know that |
| 04:54.38 | patlabor221 | and the hub is killer |
| 04:54.48 | patlabor221 | cams and stuff plug right in |
| 04:55.16 | bryjen | Donno how well it works. I've not got any extra keys |
| 04:55.32 | patlabor221 | hmmmm my cool mouse is only 16.60 I should get some more |
| 04:55.43 | bryjen | meeces |
| 04:55.47 | patlabor221 | yeah |
| 04:55.57 | fiberchunks | saw a spiffy logitech xtreme 3d twist stick thang in target, wonder if that works in lin |
| 04:55.57 | patlabor221 | it feels wierd when I don't have 5 buttons now |
| 04:56.20 | patlabor221 | the 9$ ebay stick I got, cap says worked in leeenox |
| 04:56.25 | fiberchunks | or a really good trackball... /me loves trackballs |
| 04:56.29 | fiberchunks | cool |
| 04:56.52 | patlabor221 | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2733992676&category=170 |
| 04:57.25 | fiberchunks | work with bz? |
| 04:57.29 | patlabor221 | no twist tho |
| 04:57.34 | patlabor221 | that I don't know |
| 04:57.45 | patlabor221 | stick support under BZ is "odd" I hear |
| 04:57.49 | fiberchunks | heh |
| 04:57.59 | fiberchunks | port to sdl |
| 04:58.04 | patlabor221 | I wish |
| 04:58.08 | fiberchunks | or lge ;) |
| 04:58.17 | patlabor221 | LGE just calls SDL |
| 04:58.27 | patlabor221 | well and does some stuff |
| 04:58.36 | patlabor221 | screamers works fine with any stick the OS sees :) |
| 04:59.01 | fiberchunks | what kind of effort would be involved to use SDL with bz? Major? |
| 04:59.46 | patlabor221 | the event stuff would be the hardest to do |
| 04:59.58 | patlabor221 | its not just a "drop in " thing |
| 05:00.18 | patlabor221 | cus you woudl need to do sound, video, input |
| 05:00.30 | patlabor221 | and probably want to do texture loading, too |
| 05:00.39 | patlabor221 | BZ is very crosslinked |
| 05:00.57 | patlabor221 | so it's hard to make a magor change to one part and not screw up another. |
| 05:02.47 | patlabor221 | ~message for chestal do you think I should add a /whois command that shows a persons name, host, and if they are loged in or not? |
| 05:03.21 | fiberchunks | alrighty, i'm tired -- off to the happy hunting ground -- nite all |
| 05:03.33 | patlabor221 | night |
| 05:03.36 | bryjen | nite |
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| 08:12.24 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o captain_pistachi] by ChanServ |
| 08:24.01 | captain_proton | that was beyond terrifying |
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| 10:04.12 | ak|ra | <PROTECTED> |
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| 11:09.53 | Chestal | tag |
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| 12:08.45 | *** join/#bzflag KR (~k@cae168-234-054.sc.rr.com) |
| 12:08.54 | KR | hi all |
| 12:09.23 | [dmp] | hi |
| 12:09.32 | KR | dmp :) |
| 12:09.39 | [dmp] | that's me :) |
| 12:09.58 | KR | one of those initial guys... |
| 12:10.08 | [dmp] | yeah, so brainless |
| 12:10.12 | KR | lol |
| 12:10.14 | [dmp] | :) |
| 12:10.18 | KR | q for you |
| 12:10.30 | [dmp] | shoot, and i'll dodge :) |
| 12:10.32 | KR | have you noticed that ducati has been "cluttered" lately |
| 12:10.43 | KR | lotta boxes, pyras |
| 12:10.55 | KR | and I mean a lot |
| 12:11.12 | [dmp] | hmm not really havnt played that much. |
| 12:11.46 | [dmp] | But I guess youre right. The last few times there have been "alot".. |
| 12:11.53 | KR | been that way for acoupla days now, dunno if it is something ches needs to know |
| 12:12.09 | KR | maybe its indicative of server flakiness or something |
| 12:12.15 | [dmp] | Cant hurt to tell/ask him |
| 12:13.00 | [dmp] | Hmm well, they have been working on the server, so perhaps they changed the algo for new random maps? |
| 12:13.29 | KR | I knew he shut down/restarted once last week, wonderd if that might have something to do with it... |
| 12:13.37 | KR | him workin on it I mean |
| 12:14.34 | KR | nother Q - can partial admin rights be given out? |
| 12:15.05 | KR | like, I would really like to be able to kick TK'ers like spooge when they show up, as they have lately |
| 12:15.06 | [dmp] | KR: i think so, thats why they have this /register stuff nowl. |
| 12:15.25 | [dmp] | I must begin playing more, i only see 007 :) |
| 12:15.51 | KR | whats the /register stuff? |
| 12:16.35 | [dmp] | you can register your nickname /register <password> .. and then when you come back, you can /identify <passwor> .. and if you are in the right "groups", you can do some/all adminstuff. |
| 12:16.53 | [dmp] | cool :) |
| 12:17.12 | [dmp] | i would like to start on too, but i doubt that my bw is good enough |
| 12:17.31 | KR | I'm on cable, so I think I can do a ducati clone |
| 12:17.44 | KR | bzg has given me some scripts and such to help[ :) |
| 12:18.03 | KR | have to figure out to work it with my NAT firewall and firestarter |
| 12:18.27 | KR | think I saw the register thing on rosemeyers last nifght |
| 12:18.37 | KR | will sign up for that |
| 12:18.37 | *** join/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c213-200-135-241.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 12:18.39 | [dmp] | isnt it just a question of having some ports forwarded from your firewall to your server? |
| 12:18.41 | [dmp] | hi david_v |
| 12:18.54 | david_v | hey dmp |
| 12:18.59 | [dmp] | Ducati writes this too, when you log in (i think) and once in a while (server-message) |
| 12:19.01 | KR | yeah but I haven't done that stuff before whave to learn it all |
| 12:19.13 | KR | nhi davido |
| 12:19.18 | KR | "n" |
| 12:19.21 | [dmp] | :) |
| 12:19.59 | [dmp] | dont we all? :-) (play too little) |
| 12:20.05 | david_v | hehe |
| 12:20.05 | [dmp] | except kr, ofcause :) |
| 12:20.09 | KR | dmp when I gret it going will give you admin rights :) |
| 12:20.17 | david_v | i'm finally climbing on your ladder, dmp. 21 now |
| 12:20.19 | david_v | 21st i mean |
| 12:20.19 | KR | gret... |
| 12:20.29 | david_v | KR, a new site of yours? |
| 12:20.39 | KR | going to start a server |
| 12:20.42 | david_v | ah |
| 12:21.07 | KR | ducati clone, give alla regulars admin righst so they can /kick TK'ers |
| 12:21.29 | david_v | ducati clone, cool. on the other hand isn't rosemeyers and bzgirl enough ? |
| 12:21.29 | [dmp] | david_v: Well, iate to admit it, but you are getting quite good at it :) I see you alot in top 1/2/3 (depending how many tds players there is around :)) |
| 12:21.47 | david_v | [dmp]: you hate to admit much, don't you ;) |
| 12:21.49 | KR | been thinking about putting some stuff about bz on my sailboat website though |
| 12:22.00 | david_v | ah |
| 12:22.05 | david_v | well now that's a good point |
| 12:22.11 | david_v | didn't think that far :) |
| 12:22.25 | KR | nI'm in usa so sry no help there |
| 12:22.46 | KR | roses tho it is rare that someone has admin |
| 12:22.49 | [dmp] | KR: "Airplanes" .. Tickets... Welcome to europe.. not really hard :-) |
| 12:23.08 | david_v | for some reason i get lag hickups at 59999 on ducati, anyone noticed similar probs? |
| 12:23.11 | KR | would have a hard time getting my cable to stretch that far ;) |
| 12:23.12 | david_v | lol |
| 12:23.22 | [dmp] | hehe |
| 12:23.27 | david_v | KR: don't worry, enough money makes it all :) |
| 12:24.06 | KR | yeah, I'll just start a fund for the "KR International Goodwill Trans-Atlantic BZCable Pipeline" :) |
| 12:24.06 | [dmp] | david_v: Only on 59999 ? |
| 12:24.11 | [dmp] | hehe |
| 12:24.14 | [dmp] | cool |
| 12:24.15 | [dmp] | :) |
| 12:24.34 | david_v | [dmp]: seems like it. sometimes when i play matches i get hickups now and then, and the lag goes up a bit. when i play on 5156 i usually don't get that much... i think |
| 12:24.36 | [dmp] | the BZ-ISP, connection servers throughout the bz community :) |
| 12:24.52 | david_v | KR :) |
| 12:24.55 | KR | it will be fiber and have megabandwidth, no lag ever, and you will have to register to use it |
| 12:25.12 | david_v | registering includes paying you $50,000 or so right? :) |
| 12:25.16 | KR | so that we can keep idiots off of it |
| 12:25.29 | [dmp] | david_v: i once experienced that server began to lag, but i found out that both 5156 and 5155 was busy (with observers too) .. but that dosnt happen much. |
| 12:25.40 | david_v | good idea though |
| 12:25.40 | KR | or sending a nubile young woman and a couple cases of good beer :) |
| 12:25.50 | [dmp] | hehe |
| 12:25.51 | david_v | KR: hmm :) |
| 12:26.04 | KR | must be 18 or older... |
| 12:26.05 | [dmp] | I'll go for the beer-package then :) |
| 12:26.09 | david_v | hehe |
| 12:26.26 | david_v | [dmp]: that's insane. now you imply i will fix the girl, huh? ;) |
| 12:26.43 | [dmp] | Gotta be a huge cable, to transfer both girls and beers :) |
| 12:26.50 | david_v | or, i had another thought as well, but it's too rude :) |
| 12:26.55 | david_v | lol |
| 12:26.57 | KR | lol |
| 12:27.10 | [dmp] | hmmm. :) |
| 12:27.24 | *** join/#bzflag nikt (nikt@nikt.org) |
| 12:28.08 | KR | SWBzT, 36 w/TAC, ISO SWFBzG, 18-30 w/own money source :) |
| 12:28.36 | [dmp] | Well, apt-get is eating my bandwidth for an hour more :-\ .. Guess I could look at the website code :) |
| 12:28.49 | KR | dist-upgrade? |
| 12:29.04 | KR | or are you on dial-up? |
| 12:29.13 | david_v | lol |
| 12:29.15 | [dmp] | dist-upgrade, needed to get 200mb |
| 12:29.16 | KR | lol |
| 12:29.44 | KR | sry, French girls not accepted (hairy pits) |
| 12:29.48 | KR | :) |
| 12:29.56 | david_v | hmm... to change topic ;) the Gentoo portage system is quite nice |
| 12:30.25 | [dmp] | david_v: yeah people say so, until they want to install kde or openoffice, i hear. |
| 12:30.53 | KR | i read the other day that Gentoo was for people who like to spend all week compiling, ,and Debian was for peeps who want to use their puter;) |
| 12:31.14 | [dmp] | hehe |
| 12:31.20 | KR | dmp u on Gentoo as well? |
| 12:31.33 | david_v | i'm on Gentoo, [dmp] is on Windows i guess |
| 12:31.37 | KR | freevo = tivo? |
| 12:31.37 | david_v | traitor :) |
| 12:31.51 | [dmp] | kr, nope. debian |
| 12:31.55 | KR | dmp uses apt-get on windopws - what a hack :) |
| 12:31.56 | david_v | ah Debian |
| 12:31.59 | [dmp] | hehe |
| 12:32.12 | david_v | you should just see the pathetic Debian-Gentoo wars... |
| 12:32.19 | david_v | and i have only seen a little bit of it :) |
| 12:32.30 | KR | saw that quote above on Libranet fora the other day |
| 12:32.37 | david_v | anyway, i'm on Gentoo here. i like the automatisation but it sure takes time |
| 12:32.39 | [dmp] | Ha, Wars! They suck! .. Anyway, who ever listens to a swedish persons opinions! DENMARK RULES |
| 12:32.40 | [dmp] | :-p |
| 12:32.44 | david_v | lol |
| 12:32.49 | KR | LOL |
| 12:33.06 | david_v | moreover compiling kde is very easy. just type `emerge kde` :) |
| 12:33.10 | KR | I like glaze on my Danish'es |
| 12:33.21 | KR | mmm apple danish |
| 12:33.22 | david_v | or emerge openoffice (add -bin for a precompiled version) |
| 12:33.27 | [dmp] | I like coding.. But I dont like having to use too much time on getting other peoples stuff to work. So thats why i like debain. Its almost too easy. |
| 12:33.53 | david_v | the problem with Gentoo as i see it is that it is a bit dangerous. i was soooo close to having to reinstall my whole system at one point |
| 12:33.55 | [dmp] | I knew denmark was small, but seeing an US wanting to eat use, kinda scares me :) |
| 12:34.02 | KR | LOL |
| 12:34.12 | KR | that would suck, dave |
| 12:34.23 | KR | power - use it or lose it ;) |
| 12:34.26 | david_v | KR: no reinstalling is nice ;) |
| 12:34.38 | [dmp] | david_v: i heard that someone was complaining about the errors in gentoos packages. |
| 12:34.44 | [dmp] | david_v: thats windows thinking :) |
| 12:34.58 | KR | you should try this debian distro I have if you like reinstalling - 20 minutes, tops |
| 12:34.59 | david_v | KR: if you're an optimist though, you just need to learn the traps in this particular distro and you'll be alright. it's been ok |
| 12:35.17 | david_v | KR: who is that for? |
| 12:35.28 | KR | david |
| 12:35.38 | david_v | hmm, and you don't think i've tried Debian yet? :) |
| 12:35.39 | KR | you say you like reinstalls :) |
| 12:35.53 | david_v | well, i still have a Debian Woody disk here :) |
| 12:35.54 | KR | ahh, but this one is *so* easy |
| 12:36.01 | KR | Xandros |
| 12:36.17 | KR | is mostly for businessusers. newbies |
| 12:36.17 | david_v | oh you meant debian *based* well say that :) |
| 12:36.29 | david_v | tricky guy you are :) |
| 12:36.31 | KR | lol ok debian-based ;) |
| 12:36.48 | [dmp] | It kinda sucks, i proberly need to reinstall my server. Want a new disk to boot of debian, and then have a mirrored storagedisk of data. But now, its all a mess (on a single system) |
| 12:37.03 | david_v | hm |
| 12:37.09 | KR | but they give you aklso a TechPreview CD, has newwer libs etc, much better if you are not a newbie, very tweakable |
| 12:37.35 | david_v | reminds me, i had three OSes installed at one point. Mandrake, Gentoo, WinXP. i deleted Mandrake, it was just so... well, badly constructed imo |
| 12:37.38 | [dmp] | oh, btw: freevo -> http://freevo.sourceforge.net/ (media-box thingy) |
| 12:37.59 | david_v | redhat was ok but limited - too "simple" - and at some points didn't work |
| 12:38.08 | KR | seen freevo mentioned on /., haven't looked at it yet - thx |
| 12:38.15 | david_v | KR: have you tried Slack? |
| 12:38.26 | KR | have RH9 on here now, its ok |
| 12:38.49 | KR | never have tried Slack, that and Suse about the only ones I haven;t :) |
| 12:38.54 | david_v | hehe |
| 12:39.04 | david_v | btw here's a nice link: http://www.distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major |
| 12:39.21 | david_v | it says it's user friendly, that scares me! :) |
| 12:39.25 | [dmp] | I bought a "family pc", with embeeded stuff, so it can be connected to tv directly. Its small and neat. Now I just need to find the software and plug it in..(i hope) |
| 12:39.31 | david_v | (about Xandros) |
| 12:39.51 | KR | it is ultimate newbie distro |
| 12:40.00 | KR | i have family running Linux now :) |
| 12:40.20 | david_v | don't even mention the word, my mental disorders increase :) |
| 12:40.35 | david_v | i mean new... urk, can't say it |
| 12:41.05 | KR | ahh, no - its good - muy nieces will now grow up exposed to Chioce and FS/OSS |
| 12:41.13 | KR | choice |
| 12:41.19 | david_v | if you need to try Linux, you should *start* with LFS! ;) |
| 12:41.22 | KR | not just ms stuff |
| 12:41.27 | david_v | haven't tried it myself though |
| 12:41.31 | david_v | yet |
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| 12:42.24 | KR | dmp, there is a guy locally who is building these mm cube-looking boxes just for tivo/freevo application, sells em for about $500 US, tey are really sharp |
| 12:42.33 | [dmp] | btw: a good image viewer for linux? |
| 12:42.42 | [dmp] | KR: its really expensive to get stuff from us over here :-\ |
| 12:42.42 | david_v | kuickshow is quite nice |
| 12:42.49 | david_v | for kde as you can guess |
| 12:43.07 | david_v | but most kde apps run in gnome i guess. not sure about other wms |
| 12:43.22 | [dmp] | damn. |
| 12:43.34 | KR | kuikshow better than kview? |
| 12:44.24 | david_v | i don't know, they seem quite similar |
| 12:44.44 | KR | ah, LFS, thats another I have been wanting to try |
| 12:44.57 | david_v | kuickshow seems slightly more advanced |
| 12:44.57 | KR | seems like a watered down Gentoo |
| 12:45.01 | KR | :) |
| 12:45.03 | david_v | not really |
| 12:45.30 | david_v | but well, i haven't tried it, but it seems like you have do about 99% yourself :) |
| 12:45.38 | david_v | possibly making bootscripts etc etc etc |
| 12:45.40 | KR | bot5h get compiled specifically for ytour sys, right? thas what I mean |
| 12:45.50 | david_v | oh, you mean like that |
| 12:45.55 | KR | gad, I suck at typing... |
| 12:46.01 | david_v | well of course it's source based... so... |
| 12:46.05 | KR | should go to worki coding for MS or SCO... |
| 12:46.10 | david_v | that's what Slack, Gentoo and LFS have in common :) |
| 12:46.15 | david_v | KR: lol! :) |
| 12:46.21 | [dmp] | uh.. kuickshow is nice :) |
| 12:46.23 | david_v | heard the latest from SCO btw? |
| 12:46.34 | KR | just yesterdays /. update |
| 12:46.36 | david_v | someone in the panel there "thought" the code was "the same" |
| 12:46.40 | [dmp] | like it better than kview. |
| 12:46.45 | david_v | and the person in question seems to be not a programmer... hm |
| 12:46.48 | KR | that "analyst" chick? |
| 12:46.49 | david_v | trustworthy eh |
| 12:46.51 | david_v | yeah |
| 12:47.02 | KR | pffffffffttttttttt :P |
| 12:47.11 | david_v | besides, is "hundreds of lines" of code the only thing they're gabbling about? |
| 12:47.20 | david_v | if so, that's *nada* |
| 12:47.30 | Tupone | BZ |
| 12:47.34 | KR | she prolly knows about as much as I do about kernel source and how to read it :) |
| 12:47.45 | david_v | besides the chances are they're not copied, but just look similar because there will always be similar lines... |
| 12:47.52 | KR | which is this muc --> . |
| 12:47.54 | david_v | KR: hehehe :) |
| 12:48.13 | david_v | well anyway, i wonder if MS is paying SCO for this, or what's going on |
| 12:48.18 | david_v | seems very pathetic, the whole story |
| 12:48.27 | KR | didnt hear what yesterdays press conference was avbout, what was said - u? |
| 12:48.40 | KR | <of course they are, IMO> |
| 12:48.48 | david_v | no idea sorry, i just read vaguely that they were going to have one |
| 12:49.24 | KR | I called in for the last one, but they never said anything new really, so I figured yesterday was the same, just an attention grab, ,press release |
| 12:49.33 | david_v | probably |
| 12:49.49 | david_v | btw... |
| 12:50.21 | david_v | as i understand it SCO can't determine what they're after. one day they say they're after "copyright violations", the other day they say they're after "patent issues" or "stolen ideas and figures", or vice versa... |
| 12:50.30 | [dmp] | david_v: i hear something about that MS paid for a UNIX license a few days after this started. People think that this actually was to support SCOs battles |
| 12:50.36 | david_v | are they doing that now that they realize they don't own any patents? :) |
| 12:50.52 | david_v | [dmp]: probably, it was extremely suspicious |
| 12:50.58 | KR | don't dobt it, thought so meself, dmp |
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| 12:51.26 | [dmp] | I guess its whole matter is absurd |
| 12:51.31 | david_v | was a bit surprised to see it do be done that officially though |
| 12:51.41 | david_v | it seemed quite clear what it was about |
| 12:52.41 | david_v | when i think of it, has SCO responded to Linus' request yet to put that guy whatever-is-his-name in the analysis group? |
| 12:52.58 | david_v | i guess they haven't and never will |
| 12:53.44 | KR | not that ive heard of |
| 12:54.05 | KR | if anyone who knows the code looks at it, I think it will hurt SCO |
| 12:54.20 | david_v | they have to show it in court anyway... |
| 12:54.27 | david_v | so what's the problem |
| 12:54.46 | KR | they *dont want* knowledgeable peeps to see it, you can tell by the NDA terms |
| 12:55.06 | KR | court time is a long way off, a buyout could happen before then ;) |
| 12:55.11 | david_v | sorry i'm not quite following |
| 12:55.19 | david_v | yea a buyout... who knows |
| 12:55.43 | david_v | after all SCO is creating quite some uncertainty among people who don't know much about Linux |
| 12:55.55 | KR | look for stories about the NDA that SCO says one must sign before they "reveal" evidence to you |
| 12:56.24 | david_v | so with other words if you see they're just faking something, you can't tell that to people, or what? |
| 12:56.42 | KR | they only show you a little, you acn't talk about it except to say whether or not they may have a case, you can then be called into court - it is all very slanted in SCO's favor |
| 12:56.45 | david_v | i just know that "they can't tell what they've seen", but not to which extent |
| 12:56.56 | david_v | yeah... |
| 12:57.11 | KR | brb - refill coffee |
| 12:57.37 | david_v | but at least one trusted guy representing the Linux community can give us a reliable message about that, if they have a case or not |
| 12:58.07 | KR | david - u in US? |
| 12:58.15 | david_v | nope, Sweden |
| 12:58.20 | david_v | [dmp] nags about it, you can't miss it ;) |
| 12:58.33 | KR | ahh - well that makes dmp's comment have more sense :) |
| 12:58.38 | *** join/#bzflag sussudio (Suss@81.68.134.159) |
| 12:58.39 | david_v | hehehe |
| 12:58.43 | sussudio | TK on ducati |
| 12:58.47 | sussudio | ~ducati6 |
| 12:58.53 | david_v | hm, i can have a look |
| 12:58.54 | KR | bet its spooge |
| 12:59.04 | sussudio | *Dante* or something |
| 12:59.04 | KR | he was there yester morn and last night |
| 12:59.08 | sussudio | can someone bury him under some poop? |
| 12:59.15 | KR | lol |
| 12:59.18 | KR | good one |
| 12:59.21 | sussudio | pigpoop |
| 12:59.34 | sussudio | works wonders |
| 12:59.46 | KR | when stuffed into no0strils |
| 12:59.58 | KR | very effective deterrent |
| 13:02.42 | KR | [dmp] - have a sytem you can buy for your freevo |
| 13:02.45 | KR | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2733726990&category=1247 |
| 13:02.52 | KR | :) |
| 13:03.54 | david_v | sussudio: i don't see anyone, except for dante who seems quite new |
| 13:04.01 | david_v | didn't see him teamkilling though |
| 13:04.01 | sussudio | it was dante |
| 13:04.08 | david_v | he was very, very new |
| 13:04.09 | sussudio | he killed me twice on purpose. no greens anywhere |
| 13:04.12 | david_v | or whatever |
| 13:04.22 | david_v | hm |
| 13:05.36 | [dmp] | very funny kr :) |
| 13:06.04 | *** part/#bzflag KR (~k@cae168-234-054.sc.rr.com) |
| 13:06.26 | *** join/#bzflag KR (~k@cae168-234-054.sc.rr.com) |
| 13:06.30 | KR | oops |
| 13:06.33 | KR | :) |
| 13:06.41 | [dmp] | :) |
| 13:06.48 | sussudio | is there a difference between bullet velocity in clients? |
| 13:08.34 | david_v | hm, i don't think so |
| 13:08.37 | KR | [dmp] do you think that will work for you? I can act as your US agent in the purchase if so |
| 13:08.41 | KR | :) |
| 13:08.50 | david_v | i've noticed that the bullets get extra speed /range when you're driving, compared to standing still, though |
| 13:09.08 | [dmp] | KR: I think its abit too big to go into my rack :) |
| 13:09.09 | sussudio | someone was using 1.7e3fx (whatever the fsck that is) and his bullets were going faster |
| 13:09.16 | KR | lol |
| 13:09.41 | david_v | hm, a hacked client i guess |
| 13:09.49 | sussudio | yes, as i suspected. |
| 13:10.13 | KR | seems sometimes that the second shot moves faster than the first |
| 13:10.19 | sussudio | he had some bullshit excuse about not using a recent client "i cant pick up flags with anything newer" |
| 13:10.22 | KR | on radar at least |
| 13:10.32 | david_v | KR, actually yes, i've seen that at least once. very weird |
| 13:10.52 | david_v | but they were at different angles though, so it's hard to say if they were actually doing different speeds |
| 13:11.00 | sussudio | the bzflag in cvs from about a month back would sometimes not expire the bullet after it killed a tank.... i got 3 tanks with 2 bullets that way a couple of times |
| 13:11.05 | david_v | maybe if you drive and shoot, stop, and shoot |
| 13:11.20 | [dmp] | KR: if you are going backwards (or not a full speed) and shoot, then move faster and shoot,. The second shot is faster. |
| 13:11.31 | KR | makes sense |
| 13:11.33 | david_v | sussudio: i've seen that several times |
| 13:11.56 | david_v | [dmp]: that's what i mean |
| 13:12.09 | sussudio | david_v: very close, i'd imagine |
| 13:12.24 | KR | I've noticed that Cap'n "pumps" his shots |
| 13:12.36 | sussudio | CapN lag? |
| 13:12.40 | david_v | two shots directly after each other? |
| 13:12.42 | KR | if he is sitting still, he'll shoive forward as he fires |
| 13:12.50 | david_v | oh |
| 13:12.54 | david_v | heh |
| 13:13.07 | [dmp] | Its sure aint a good idea defending yourself while going backwards .-) |
| 13:13.07 | david_v | never thought about that |
| 13:13.11 | KR | just a bit, but I think that may give you better velocity |
| 13:13.22 | david_v | i think so |
| 13:13.23 | sussudio | there was someone with 735ms on ducati earlier today. i suggested they'd join BiPS or HoW |
| 13:13.26 | KR | ;) dmp |
| 13:13.33 | [dmp] | it does, when you are aware of it, its easy to see it. |
| 13:13.50 | david_v | well i think i've seen it, just not thought about it :) |
| 13:14.20 | KR | chiko was on the other night with 2 or 3 8seconds* of lag... |
| 13:14.30 | david_v | wow |
| 13:14.35 | KR | yeah... |
| 13:15.10 | [dmp] | is chiko on some kind of dailup? I saw her on rosemeyers and she was more laggy than me. |
| 13:15.19 | sussudio | i dont get why people would even have that much lag.. unless they're dialing in with 14k4 or something |
| 13:15.20 | david_v | i guess she is |
| 13:15.37 | david_v | bad lines could always exist |
| 13:15.47 | sussudio | thats what LAPM is for |
| 13:16.03 | david_v | LAPM? |
| 13:16.12 | david_v | making a fool of myself again :) |
| 13:16.13 | KR | she is |
| 13:16.15 | sussudio | error correction protocol |
| 13:16.19 | KR | and AOL too - blech |
| 13:16.24 | [dmp] | :) |
| 13:16.41 | david_v | oh |
| 13:16.45 | sussudio | connect 28800/arq/v42bis/lapm etc |
| 13:16.56 | david_v | well there's not much left of AOL... thanks to MS. only thing they did right! ;) |
| 13:17.21 | sussudio | i've had the same IP for 3 weeks now :-| |
| 13:17.29 | david_v | sussudio: heh i've had the same for months :) |
| 13:17.44 | sussudio | i guess calling 10 times in a row to the helldesk worked... even if it cost me 8 euro. bastards. |
| 13:17.46 | david_v | i think i usually have the same for 6 months or so before they change, they do that regularly |
| 13:18.00 | david_v | helldesk lol |
| 13:18.09 | sussudio | 10ct/min |
| 13:18.15 | david_v | wow |
| 13:18.21 | david_v | no "tollfree" huh :) |
| 13:18.34 | sussudio | they leave you on hold for 30 mins with lionel bloody richie's greatest friggin hits |
| 13:18.35 | david_v | how much of that is there in US nowadays? |
| 13:18.47 | sussudio | 8 ct probably |
| 13:18.52 | sussudio | 2 when george is done |
| 13:18.56 | david_v | i think we have a got an AOL lover here :) |
| 13:19.09 | david_v | as much as i love MS, if not more |
| 13:19.48 | sussudio | 0.10 Euro is 0.11813 Dollar |
| 13:19.54 | sussudio | ok 12 cents |
| 13:19.57 | sussudio | wrong way round |
| 13:20.18 | david_v | well i live in Europe anyway, so no point in converting to dollars hehe |
| 13:21.09 | sussudio | 0.10 EUR Euro = 0.910186 SEK Sweden Kronor |
| 13:21.09 | sussudio | :-P |
| 13:21.26 | david_v | sounds right ;) |
| 13:21.39 | sussudio | you still got kroner right |
| 13:21.44 | david_v | yeah |
| 13:21.51 | sussudio | :-| |
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| 13:23.55 | david_v | hang on, trying to find a URL for a site... |
| 13:24.06 | sussudio | i suspect it was gerbil with the 1.7e3fx.. he has a fetish for obsolete clients |
| 13:26.30 | sussudio | i suggest people skip q818529, it does weird things. |
| 13:26.38 | david_v | like? |
| 13:26.39 | sussudio | IE6 cumstain patch. |
| 13:26.45 | sussudio | it changed my taskbar, for one |
| 13:26.49 | david_v | hm |
| 13:26.53 | sussudio | and it does strange things with the command shell |
| 13:27.03 | david_v | i haven't any problems with patches in XP, but that doesn't mean i trust MS. i do not |
| 13:27.04 | sussudio | it's a damn browser patch, why does it mess with other stuff. |
| 13:27.10 | david_v | good question |
| 13:27.13 | david_v | patches have bugs too :) |
| 13:27.21 | sussudio | snort. |
| 13:27.24 | david_v | sounds weird though |
| 13:27.47 | sussudio | i think my system is turning sluggish because of it too |
| 13:28.00 | KR | dmp and david - here's another debian-based distro for you to check out - http://www.lesbian.mine.nu/ |
| 13:28.01 | sussudio | maybe it's a keylogger or other fun microsoft stuff. |
| 13:28.05 | KR | :) its funny |
| 13:28.15 | [dmp] | hmm :) |
| 13:28.17 | sussudio | hm yes, tarzeau's page |
| 13:28.34 | [dmp] | KR: should i get my gf out of here before looking? ;) |
| 13:28.58 | KR | lol no |
| 13:30.27 | sussudio | http://home.wanadoo.nl/sussudio/rdebian.jpg |
| 13:30.31 | sussudio | come to daddyyyyyy |
| 13:31.43 | KR | is that you in the pic? :0 |
| 13:31.47 | KR | oops :) |
| 13:32.02 | sussudio | richard d james :-P |
| 13:32.13 | KR | who isd richard james? |
| 13:32.19 | sussudio | aphex twin |
| 13:32.26 | KR | ahh ok |
| 13:33.20 | david_v | ah now i found the URL, and sussudio, you're from the Netherlands. :) |
| 13:33.54 | sussudio | i am? |
| 13:34.04 | david_v | surprising isn't it :) |
| 13:34.40 | david_v | you learn something new every day. i didn't know i was from Sweden before you told me |
| 13:35.45 | david_v | i got to go, though |
| 13:36.32 | david_v | cya, and happy shooting. wonder if Linus plays bzflag... |
| 13:36.40 | sussudio | *shrug* |
| 13:36.43 | david_v | :) |
| 13:36.54 | david_v | maybe Ballmer does |
| 13:37.45 | david_v | http://www.msboycott.com/media/ for some interesting MS videos... over and out |
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| 13:40.47 | doughecka | ick' |
| 13:47.49 | KR | bye all - off to the salt mines... |
| 13:47.53 | *** part/#bzflag KR (~k@cae168-234-054.sc.rr.com) |
| 14:09.44 | [dmp] | ibot seen cia |
| 14:09.44 | | cia <~CIA@12-252-175-3.client.attbi.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #handhelds.org, 15h 23m 13s ago, saying: 'commit to module 09linux by 07pb: add missing mkdir'. |
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| 14:28.39 | *** join/#bzflag captain_pistachi (~blardebla@12-203-245-57.client.attbi.com) |
| 14:28.39 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o captain_pistachi] by ChanServ |
| 14:56.30 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-164-147.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 14:56.58 | doughecka | hey Tupone, captain_pistachi |
| 14:57.26 | Tupone | Yah |
| 14:57.50 | Tupone | Who is captain_pistachi? |
| 14:58.31 | fiberchunks | captain_protons alter ego, iirc |
| 14:59.32 | Tupone | captain_proton: are you there? |
| 15:02.56 | Tupone | captain_pistachi: are you in? |
| 15:06.04 | *** part/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-164-147.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 15:06.12 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-164-147.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 15:08.28 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-164-147.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 15:48.13 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-164-147.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 15:49.07 | Tupone | prot-work : Are you there? |
| 15:51.26 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-164-147.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 15:52.44 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-164-147.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 15:59.08 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-164-147.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 15:59.25 | Tupone | captain_pistachi: Hi! |
| 16:00.54 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-164-147.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 16:12.00 | *** join/#bzflag ak|ra_ (~mathias@pD9E47924.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:12.08 | *** join/#bzflag CIA (~CIA@12-252-175-3.client.attbi.com) |
| 16:45.58 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@c-67-163-110-34.client.comcast.net) |
| 16:46.15 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:47.55 | *** join/#bzflag Chestal (thilo@vmax.unix-ag.uni-siegen.de) |
| 16:47.55 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Chestal] by ChanServ |
| 16:50.05 | *** join/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c213-200-135-241.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 16:55.28 | *** join/#bzflag patlabor221 (~jeffm@adsl-64-172-199-245.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 16:55.28 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 16:55.49 | doughecka | mornin patlabor221 |
| 16:55.55 | patlabor221 | hey |
| 17:12.04 | *** join/#bzflag Smilodon (~pepe@14.Red-81-42-196.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 17:12.10 | Smilodon | Hello |
| 17:12.29 | doughecka | uh huhh |
| 17:12.32 | Smilodon | I apologize in advance |
| 17:12.45 | Smilodon | bzflag sucks |
| 17:12.47 | patlabor221 | hello |
| 17:12.56 | patlabor221 | why is that? |
| 17:13.19 | patlabor221 | I don't think it's him doug. |
| 17:13.24 | Smilodon | I am *sure* many, many people cheats |
| 17:13.25 | doughecka | oh |
| 17:13.35 | *** join/#bzflag CIA (~CIA@12-252-175-3.client.attbi.com) |
| 17:13.40 | Smilodon | And it is *absolutely* indetectable |
| 17:13.42 | patlabor221 | yes many people do |
| 17:14.17 | patlabor221 | that is not true, the current CVS version prevents an number of cheats, and the next major re-write is to move more tracking to the servers. |
| 17:14.20 | Smilodon | And, how the hell you can prove you *don't* see the kind of flags there are |
| 17:14.22 | Smilodon | ? |
| 17:15.06 | patlabor221 | there are ways, and they are just not implmeneted as of yet |
| 17:15.58 | Smilodon | I see people arrives and get the "useful" flags inmediately |
| 17:16.07 | patlabor221 | yes they are cheating |
| 17:16.15 | Smilodon | I was many time spending for one |
| 17:16.17 | patlabor221 | BZ does not have a authoritive server |
| 17:16.31 | Smilodon | It is evident waht they are doing |
| 17:16.35 | patlabor221 | it is using an older "LAN" style of gamestate tracking. |
| 17:16.58 | Smilodon | But, what about the bandwidth |
| 17:17.00 | Smilodon | ? |
| 17:17.08 | patlabor221 | what about it? |
| 17:17.27 | Smilodon | Yes, this increase the data load |
| 17:17.43 | patlabor221 | data load isn't much of a problem |
| 17:17.46 | patlabor221 | it's the gamestate. |
| 17:17.56 | Smilodon | ?¿ |
| 17:18.05 | patlabor221 | each client maintains a gamestate |
| 17:18.08 | patlabor221 | not the server |
| 17:18.11 | patlabor221 | that is the core issue |
| 17:18.17 | patlabor221 | the clients are trusted |
| 17:18.19 | patlabor221 | they should not |
| 17:18.36 | patlabor221 | bzflag was writen a rather long time ago |
| 17:18.40 | Smilodon | The clients are not reliable |
| 17:18.46 | Smilodon | ! |
| 17:18.48 | patlabor221 | no they are not |
| 17:19.12 | Chestal | evaluating these programming assignments is very tiresome |
| 17:19.27 | patlabor221 | chestal did you get my message? |
| 17:19.54 | Chestal | patlabor221: yes, but I;m not sure it would be that useful |
| 17:19.59 | patlabor221 | ok |
| 17:20.14 | patlabor221 | I wasn't sure ether, so that is why I poised the question. |
| 17:20.25 | Smilodon | Why not let a part of the code loaded like the scenery? |
| 17:20.28 | Chestal | patlabor: there's a logintime in the player slot, what idea did you have for that? |
| 17:21.03 | patlabor221 | ohh it's for a planed feature I have, to auto kick if they don't identify in X amount of time. |
| 17:21.10 | patlabor221 | smilodon what do you mean? |
| 17:21.24 | Smilodon | I am not sure, but... |
| 17:21.38 | Smilodon | A kind of plug-in |
| 17:21.53 | Smilodon | Very little, but critic. |
| 17:21.56 | Chestal | pat: ah,I thought about that myself. I guess it should give a warning every minute or so and kick after a few of those |
| 17:22.07 | patlabor221 | do you know how many platforms BZ runs on, and they would still be able to cheat it easy. |
| 17:22.20 | patlabor221 | chestal, yes, I wanted that as a server option. |
| 17:22.31 | TimRiker | Smilodon: patches welcome. |
| 17:22.37 | patlabor221 | smilodon, you can never trust a client |
| 17:22.40 | patlabor221 | ever |
| 17:22.54 | Smilodon | Yes, that is what I say |
| 17:23.03 | Smilodon | Tim :)))) |
| 17:23.06 | Smilodon | ¡Ojalá! |
| 17:23.13 | Chestal | pat: I actually liked the other boxwall texture, although it wasn't perfect |
| 17:23.15 | patlabor221 | we have had this discusion before, and sending code does not increase trust, just opens up client side exploits. |
| 17:23.25 | Chestal | so, what are the plans now, what else should make it in, which parts need to get fixed? |
| 17:23.36 | Smilodon | Ah |
| 17:23.48 | patlabor221 | chestal, I am trying to get a couple high res texture packs together. |
| 17:24.37 | Smilodon | I'm sad |
| 17:24.38 | Chestal | are there any publci server which run cvs code? |
| 17:24.40 | patlabor221 | Tim, I got permision from a very good texture artist to use his textures in BZ, as long has he is credited for making them, would you be interesting in using them to make BZ look better? |
| 17:25.05 | patlabor221 | I think dragon.org and secretplace do |
| 17:25.17 | Chestal | also, we should put up a current windows binary for public testing |
| 17:25.24 | Chestal | ducati does, too, of course |
| 17:25.25 | patlabor221 | k I'll build one |
| 17:25.39 | patlabor221 | are the man pages current? |
| 17:25.40 | TimRiker | patlabor221: sure. what does "credit" look like for him? |
| 17:26.09 | Chestal | TimRiker: his name on every wall in the game ;-) |
| 17:26.14 | patlabor221 | umm let me see, say he made them, say you can use them for antyhing you like, just don't say they are yours. |
| 17:27.33 | patlabor221 | here is his text |
| 17:27.33 | patlabor221 | [Stuff] |
| 17:27.34 | patlabor221 | If you use any of the textures it would be cool if you emailed me with the url to some screenshots if possible. |
| 17:27.34 | patlabor221 | I really would like to see what uses mappers have made of them. |
| 17:27.34 | patlabor221 | [Copyright/Permissions] |
| 17:27.35 | patlabor221 | -You may use these texture in your maps/mods/tcÕs as long as you give me credit. |
| 17:27.37 | patlabor221 | -You may not edit, modify any textures within this archive unless given permission to do so by the author. |
| 17:27.39 | patlabor221 | -You may convert these textures to other game formats but only with the authorÕs permission (me). |
| 17:28.01 | patlabor221 | and he is very cool about giving permision |
| 17:28.49 | patlabor221 | here is a sample of what I was playing with |
| 17:28.50 | patlabor221 | http://www.bakadigital.com/BZ/G1/ART/newTex.jpg |
| 17:30.28 | TimRiker | 2 and 3 would remove bzflag from main under debian. |
| 17:30.51 | patlabor221 | ahhh |
| 17:31.00 | patlabor221 | then I will make it a pack people can download on there own |
| 17:31.09 | TimRiker | sounds liek a good idea. |
| 17:31.22 | TimRiker | er like. |
| 17:32.06 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (1000@ky-owensboro1a-242.owboky.adelphia.net) |
| 17:32.09 | doughecka | hey bryjen |
| 17:32.19 | bryjen | hi |
| 17:33.00 | Smilodon | Hola |
| 17:33.14 | patlabor221 | g1 binary instaler build, posting it now |
| 17:34.00 | patlabor221 | 2.53 megs not horible |
| 17:34.01 | patlabor221 | http://www.bakadigital.com/BZ/G1/bzflag17g1.exe |
| 17:34.09 | patlabor221 | I will post a link on BZBB |
| 17:34.16 | patlabor221 | would we call this G2 rc1? |
| 17:34.44 | bryjen | as long as you don't let it get up to rc7 |
| 17:35.00 | patlabor221 | we had rc35 once at work |
| 17:35.16 | TimRiker | patlabor221: nope. just g1 in the binary... but you can refer to it as a prerelease. |
| 17:35.45 | bryjen | back, back to beta with you! |
| 17:35.45 | patlabor221 | yeah the installer calls it G1, I just want people to know that this has the features they will see in G2 |
| 17:35.54 | Chestal | one thing that has to be done is some documentation on the new admin commands, there is none yet, is there? |
| 17:36.15 | patlabor221 | no, I wrote up a doc but it should be put into the man pages |
| 17:36.23 | patlabor221 | but I am not the best author |
| 17:37.02 | patlabor221 | http://www.bakadigital.com/BZ/G1/BZAdminCommands.txt |
| 17:38.25 | TimRiker | is there a make target that wipes all the Makefile.in files? |
| 17:38.51 | TimRiker | what would folks want to do about all the ? path/Makefile.in output in cvs up? |
| 17:38.51 | patlabor221 | damn I need to add /reload to that list of commands. |
| 17:44.17 | bryjen | make pristine? |
| 17:45.18 | TimRiker | there isn't one with autoconf |
| 17:45.30 | TimRiker | make distclean does some of that but not all. |
| 17:45.50 | Smilodon | Tim, I am aware I am a newbie, but, can you consider anything? |
| 17:46.46 | bryjen | havent used that yet. was just skimming thru the makefiles |
| 17:46.47 | Smilodon | The information about flags can be loaded as you need it |
| 17:46.59 | Smilodon | Not at the very beginning |
| 17:47.36 | patlabor221 | not if the user has identify |
| 17:47.56 | patlabor221 | but yes we have talked about sending that info only when they pick up |
| 17:47.58 | Smilodon | You can obtain information as long you get flags and you can storage that, of course. |
| 17:48.20 | Smilodon | But ¡its yoour own "memory"! |
| 17:48.30 | patlabor221 | yes |
| 17:48.53 | patlabor221 | the next version will be incompatable with the current version and we plan on looking into all of those posiblilites |
| 17:49.01 | Smilodon | It is legal. |
| 17:49.12 | patlabor221 | legal? |
| 17:50.42 | Smilodon | Yes, in the sense you get it by legal means |
| 17:50.56 | bryjen | oops: data/Makefile.am:1: required directory data/l10n does not exist |
| 17:50.56 | bryjen | and yet it does. |
| 17:50.56 | bryjen | but its empty :( |
| 17:50.59 | patlabor221 | I don't see how law come into play |
| 17:51.11 | Smilodon | Of course, you cab storage thos by "electronic means" |
| 17:51.16 | TimRiker | Smilodon: that's in the plans after we change the network protocol. |
| 17:51.21 | patlabor221 | sending info on a pickup will make a lag when you pick up the flag |
| 17:51.28 | Smilodon | But you obtain it fairy |
| 17:51.33 | Smilodon | :) |
| 17:51.41 | TimRiker | ~dict fairy |
| 17:51.43 | patlabor221 | yes your talking about an authoritive server |
| 17:51.48 | Smilodon | How long, the lag? |
| 17:51.57 | patlabor221 | what is the users connection? |
| 17:52.05 | patlabor221 | dialup? maybe 300-500 ms |
| 17:52.11 | Chestal | it wouldn't make a difference on flag pickup |
| 17:52.18 | Chestal | only problem I see is identify flag |
| 17:52.23 | TimRiker | patlabor221: the client already sends grabflag and waits for the server to reply. |
| 17:52.31 | patlabor221 | ahhhhh |
| 17:52.32 | Smilodon | Fairly? |
| 17:52.35 | patlabor221 | then yeah no dif |
| 17:53.01 | Smilodon | dialup, mine |
| 17:53.29 | Smilodon | I see no probln about lag |
| 17:53.45 | Smilodon | booom lag is about this long |
| 17:53.50 | bryjen | fair _ly_ |
| 17:53.51 | bryjen | and why is the offensive slang definition 1st? |
| 17:54.09 | TimRiker | need to add a new "tell me what this flag is" message. and the server needs to check that the player is "close" to that flag and has ID. |
| 17:54.17 | patlabor221 | windows installer an src zip are posted on BZBB |
| 17:54.34 | Chestal | good |
| 17:54.37 | Smilodon | What is the problem, then? |
| 17:54.45 | TimRiker | bryjen: should mean that "they" think that is the most common usage these days. |
| 17:54.50 | patlabor221 | we can't do that till we go incompatable |
| 17:55.05 | Smilodon | The lag is the problem. I always have that problem! |
| 17:55.23 | patlabor221 | you just said you see no problem in lag |
| 17:55.45 | Smilodon | I must go out when there are more than 4 o 5 users |
| 17:56.02 | Smilodon | :) |
| 18:01.12 | patlabor221 | Tim, I made windows put all it's libs and bins in the same place that the automake stuff does, so they are consisitnet |
| 18:01.23 | TimRiker | patlabor221: excellent. |
| 18:01.49 | patlabor221 | woudl you be adverse to a windows VC only post build step that copied them to a bin folder tho? it makes debuging easyer |
| 18:01.50 | doughecka | yea, I was confused till I searched for the file :) |
| 18:02.08 | patlabor221 | cus I am tired, and a bit sick |
| 18:02.25 | doughecka | can it copy them to the root folder? |
| 18:02.36 | patlabor221 | that is what I am thinking |
| 18:03.26 | doughecka | hah, smart cards are cool :) |
| 18:03.49 | patlabor221 | not that doug would ever actualy use BZ |
| 18:03.51 | TimRiker | patlabor221: fine with me. |
| 18:04.20 | doughecka | :) |
| 18:04.35 | doughecka | the superbullets look cool |
| 18:04.42 | patlabor221 | thanks tim |
| 18:05.39 | CIA | commit by timriker: move to automake |
| 18:06.05 | TimRiker | no, thank you. ;-) |
| 18:06.30 | doughecka | lol |
| 18:07.51 | CIA | commit by timriker: config.h patch from Tupone Alfredo (atupone) |
| 18:08.20 | patlabor221 | it kinda sucks VC 6 dosn't like to debug unless the pdb files are in the same place as the exe. VC 7 dosn't have that problem, but it's a pig. |
| 18:10.32 | *** join/#bzflag Smilodon_ (~pepe@4.Red-81-42-197.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 18:10.39 | Smilodon_ | Hello again |
| 18:14.03 | CIA | commit by timriker: don't need to enter pbproj |
| 18:14.39 | patlabor221 | pbporj what is that? |
| 18:14.53 | patlabor221 | ohht he mac thing |
| 18:15.07 | doughecka | "the mac thing" |
| 18:15.13 | doughecka | sounds like something verboten :) |
| 18:16.52 | *** join/#bzflag paul ([9vQ7qYmwH@s0.alphyra.bbnplanet.net) |
| 18:16.55 | patlabor221 | I need to update the .soln files as well |
| 18:17.40 | doughecka | hey paul |
| 18:17.42 | patlabor221 | and I realy shoudl get rid of those 53 warnings :) |
| 18:17.49 | paul | hi doug |
| 18:20.11 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-217-133-164-147.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 18:21.45 | CIA | commit by jeffm2501: Added post build step to copy bins and pdbs to root for easyer debugin. |
| 18:22.49 | patlabor221 | now to work on scrawl |
| 18:23.47 | Tupone | TimRiker: Found dsound.h on internet at ftp://rpmfind.net/linux/contrib/noarch/noarch/mingw32-2.4-1.noarch.rpm |
| 18:25.08 | patlabor221 | ohh I ziped up all the DX stuff you need for a minGW build |
| 18:25.11 | patlabor221 | and gave it to larsl |
| 18:25.17 | patlabor221 | but it still didn't work |
| 18:25.26 | patlabor221 | you need more then the headers |
| 18:25.31 | *** part/#bzflag Smilodon_ (~pepe@4.Red-81-42-197.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 18:25.52 | *** join/#bzflag Smilodon_ (~pepe@4.Red-81-42-197.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 18:26.01 | *** part/#bzflag Smilodon_ (~pepe@4.Red-81-42-197.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 18:26.51 | Tupone | patlabor221: I just use the headers and it worked. Headers from VS6 |
| 18:27.14 | patlabor221 | how did it link? |
| 18:27.18 | patlabor221 | it needs the libs? |
| 18:27.32 | patlabor221 | do you have VC 6 installed on the same machine? |
| 18:27.36 | Tupone | On mingw32 there are the libs! |
| 18:27.45 | patlabor221 | ahhh |
| 18:28.31 | TimRiker | are those header legal to redistribute? |
| 18:28.50 | patlabor221 | the direct X SDK is public |
| 18:29.01 | TimRiker | probably the pest thing to to is add a README.ming32 that tell you where to get the things you need to build. |
| 18:29.23 | TimRiker | s/pest/best/ hehe |
| 18:29.41 | Tupone | They are still from Microsoft! But someone else - perhaps RedHat - has put them on Internet on its mingw32 cross compiling development environment |
| 18:29.46 | patlabor221 | for 1.9 I can look at making the windows version use SDL instead of DX |
| 18:30.02 | patlabor221 | so what if they are from MS, they are free |
| 18:30.35 | Tupone | They are free but require 30 Mbyte download |
| 18:30.45 | patlabor221 | yeah they include everying |
| 18:31.06 | patlabor221 | red hat is a 1.7 gig download |
| 18:31.13 | doughecka | lol |
| 18:31.24 | patlabor221 | and I have to download that to build :) |
| 18:32.11 | patlabor221 | I should just find the DX3 sdk and post it somehwere |
| 18:32.21 | patlabor221 | since that is all that is needed |
| 18:32.35 | Tupone | A license on that package that I see, don't know if conforted by substance, says you can reuse that pakage, modified, if you get with it the License disclaimer, (MINGW32) |
| 18:33.12 | Tupone | But really I don't know if they know what they say! |
| 18:33.40 | patlabor221 | what version of DX libs are in mingw32? |
| 18:35.12 | Tupone | Don't know. How to check. I just see I link a libsound.a and I know they use the dll from windows |
| 18:35.46 | patlabor221 | welll that's not the normal name of it on windows |
| 18:36.00 | patlabor221 | that's probably some sort of unix api emulator that uses direct sounds |
| 18:36.05 | patlabor221 | that's not realy the same |
| 18:36.29 | patlabor221 | the real lib is dsound.lib |
| 18:36.43 | patlabor221 | cus there is also a normal windows sound lib for non direct X sound |
| 18:36.47 | Tupone | on mingw32 are the libsound.a. I suppose that this is a fake library to run time link the dll |
| 18:36.49 | CIA | commit by timriker: don't go down models or doc |
| 18:37.35 | patlabor221 | does mingw32 not read normal .lib files? |
| 18:37.57 | patlabor221 | cus that's all an export lib is, just enough for the linker to call the dll |
| 18:38.21 | Tupone | What are normal .lib files? |
| 18:38.28 | patlabor221 | windows .lib files |
| 18:38.30 | *** join/#bzflag Smilodon_ (~pepe@4.Red-81-42-197.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 18:38.37 | patlabor221 | what MS ships for all there SDKS |
| 18:38.38 | Tupone | I just link libxxxxx.a file |
| 18:38.52 | patlabor221 | that's linux style libs |
| 18:38.57 | patlabor221 | not windows style |
| 18:38.58 | Tupone | unix style |
| 18:39.04 | patlabor221 | it sounds like it can't read windows libs |
| 18:39.08 | patlabor221 | sad |
| 18:40.00 | Tupone | I know that there are tools that from dll get some mingw32 usable stuff, eg. library |
| 18:40.12 | patlabor221 | ahhh the dll scan it |
| 18:40.16 | TimRiker | should be able to ./configure --without-x and just get the server(s) |
| 18:40.18 | patlabor221 | that will get most of the info |
| 18:40.22 | patlabor221 | but not all |
| 18:41.06 | Tupone | TimRiker: are you asking? |
| 18:42.43 | Tupone | what is missing from the scan? |
| 18:42.58 | Tupone | dll scan |
| 18:43.41 | patlabor221 | thre is some extra stuff on com interfaces that can be in the libs that help debuging, the scan will get the minimum to link tho |
| 18:43.44 | patlabor221 | so it will work |
| 18:45.09 | TimRiker | Tupone: it does not work at present. |
| 18:45.32 | Tupone | TimRiker: what does not work? |
| 18:45.35 | Tupone | CVS? |
| 18:46.18 | Tupone | TimRiker: Oh! I see, You mean building the server! |
| 18:47.34 | Tupone | TimRiker: we cannot use without-x cause on windows is always without x :) |
| 18:48.02 | Tupone | But I/we can put a configure flag asking to generate only the server |
| 18:48.35 | patlabor221 | or hit F7 :) |
| 18:48.48 | bryjen | --with(out)-client --with(out)-server ? |
| 18:48.52 | Tupone | TimRiker: I was not able to generate the bzfrelay on mingw32 |
| 18:49.19 | Tupone | TimRiker: so I removed on mingw32 |
| 18:50.08 | patlabor221 | relay dosn't work with winsock |
| 18:50.18 | CIA | commit by timriker: unneeded |
| 18:51.07 | bryjen | Is the build process a bit slower with automake, or have I just not done a complete build in a while ? |
| 18:51.22 | bryjen | Ah, its done! |
| 18:53.38 | Tupone | I have to leave. Bye |
| 18:55.00 | CIA | commit by timriker: more automake cleanup |
| 18:55.30 | TimRiker | that would work. |
| 18:57.21 | TimRiker | me wipes out his tree, re-checks out and tries again. |
| 18:59.39 | TimRiker | INSTALL_DATA_DIR should get moved to config.h perhaps? |
| 19:00.10 | Chestal | let's see if it works for me this time |
| 19:01.56 | Chestal | is configs/* used at all now? |
| 19:04.00 | Chestal | and how would I go about now, if I want it to use gcc-2.95 and g++-2.95 instead of gcc/c++? |
| 19:05.25 | *** join/#bzflag trepan (~trepan@CPE0040f42db082-CM00e06f15f704.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:06.42 | trepan | hi all, switching to autoconf today? |
| 19:06.59 | Chestal | I changed config.cache, seems towork |
| 19:07.14 | Chestal | trepan: I"m trying to build right now |
| 19:08.01 | Chestal | I must force it to use a non-default g++ |
| 19:08.14 | Chestal | that's not the fault of autoconf, it's jsut the way I need it |
| 19:08.37 | trepan | if you need any help testing, i'm on debian ([configure] line 532 broken right now) |
| 19:08.57 | Chestal | debian here, too |
| 19:09.15 | CIA | commit by timriker: more choices |
| 19:12.48 | patlabor221 | I should try the autoconf on RH9 I guess |
| 19:12.57 | *** join/#bzflag Patalbor2211 (~JeffM@adsl-64-172-199-245.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 19:14.03 | Chestal | ok, build worked on my debian here |
| 19:15.49 | Patalbor2211 | so I do a ./autogen.sh then a make all ? |
| 19:16.06 | Patalbor2211 | or just ./autogen.sh |
| 19:17.51 | Patalbor2211 | hmm |
| 19:18.03 | Patalbor2211 | /usr/include/c++/3.2.2/bits/fpos.h:-14538: internal error: Segmentation fault |
| 19:18.03 | Patalbor2211 | Please submit a full bug report, |
| 19:18.03 | Patalbor2211 | with preprocessed source if appropriate. |
| 19:18.51 | Patalbor2211 | in |
| 19:18.54 | Patalbor2211 | In file included from /usr/include/c++/3.2.2/bits/char_traits.h:46, |
| 19:18.54 | Patalbor2211 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:18.54 | Patalbor2211 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:18.55 | Patalbor2211 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:18.55 | Patalbor2211 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:34.39 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM__ (~JeffM@adsl-64-172-198-174.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 19:41.32 | CIA | commit by timriker: more automake cleanup |
| 19:44.03 | *** join/#bzflag Secret_Hamster (piffle@pc2-mfld3-5-cust201.nott.cable.ntl.com) |
| 19:58.15 | Chestal | did anyone ever look into the world mismatch bug? |
| 20:01.42 | captain_proton | world mismatch bug? |
| 20:02.48 | Chestal | yes, when two players are ona server and they see different random maps |
| 20:02.51 | Chestal | happens now and then |
| 20:03.47 | Chestal | hmm, without installing, the binaries are now intheir respective src dirs? |
| 20:04.14 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 20:05.48 | *** join/#bzflag Secret_Hamster (piffle@pc2-mfld3-5-cust201.nott.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:07.43 | Chestal | hmm, ok, makes it a little harder to tru and run it in situ |
| 20:08.04 | TimRiker | tru? situ? |
| 20:08.27 | JeffM__ | on windows I had it copy them to the root dir, for eas of debugin |
| 20:09.15 | TimRiker | mkdir bin; ln -s src/bzflag/bzflag bin/ etc should work. |
| 20:12.01 | Chestal | to try, start it in place |
| 20:12.45 | Chestal | some peopel are complaingign about the colour console |
| 20:12.58 | Chestal | we might have to improve the visibility of chat messages even more |
| 20:13.17 | Chestal | wah, kernel strangeness again, grmpf |
| 20:26.42 | TimRiker | first rule of open source: people always complain. |
| 20:27.11 | Chestal | I'm notsure I am really satisfied with it myself |
| 20:27.13 | fiberchunks | personally, I really like the color console -- makes life a lot easier |
| 20:27.22 | Chestal | withotu the cyan it was horrible, now it's much better |
| 20:27.45 | fiberchunks | turned off the blinking thang, and it's now perfect (at least for me, anywho) |
| 20:29.45 | TimRiker | it's better than no color, but could use some tweaking still. |
| 20:31.09 | CIA | commit by timriker: debian prefix |
| 20:38.11 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 20:38.34 | patlabor221 | hmmm any idea why compiling on RH9 cuases the compiler to segfault now? |
| 20:38.44 | TimRiker | it's rh9 ? |
| 20:38.56 | Chestal | the obvious answer is that the compiler is buggy, but that's not very helpful I guess |
| 20:38.59 | patlabor221 | that's posible |
| 20:39.12 | patlabor221 | but BZ used to build, and now with this autoconf stuff it dosn't |
| 20:39.17 | Chestal | do you have different compiler releases installed, too? |
| 20:39.26 | TimRiker | tell me more about "now". what was the last time it worked and what has changed? |
| 20:39.30 | patlabor221 | I don't know, what ever cam in the box |
| 20:39.39 | Chestal | one difference I noticed is that exceptons and rtti are not switched off now |
| 20:39.54 | patlabor221 | it worked before autoconf was added, this is the first time I have tried with the new autoconf stuff |
| 20:40.33 | patlabor221 | hmmmm maybe the drive is full |
| 20:40.36 | TimRiker | ++ -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I/usr/X11R6/include -DINSTALL_DATA_DIR="\"/usr/local/share/bzflag\"" -I/usr/include -D_BSD_SOURCE -D_POSIX_SOURCE -Wall -W -mcpu=i486 -g -O2 -fno-exceptions -O2 -ffast-math -fomit-frame-pointer -fexpensive-optimizations -c bzflag.cxx |
| 20:40.39 | patlabor221 | I saw "no space left on device" |
| 20:40.48 | TimRiker | I still have -fno-exceptions |
| 20:41.13 | TimRiker | yeah, no space would be bad. ;-) |
| 20:41.15 | Chestal | gcc-2.95 -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I. -I../../include -I/usr/X11R6/include -DINSTALL_DATA_DIR="\"/usr/local/share/bzflag\"" -I/usr/include -D_BSD_SOURCE -D_POSIX_SOURCE -Wall -W -mcpu=i486 -g -O2 -ansi -O2 -c bzfrelay.c |
| 20:41.29 | Chestal | ok, that's a bad example |
| 20:41.45 | Chestal | hmm |
| 20:41.50 | Chestal | actually I have those options now, too |
| 20:41.53 | Chestal | was sure I hadn't before |
| 20:41.59 | Chestal | there's not that much .c in bzflag, is there? |
| 20:42.25 | Chestal | we even still have the double -I. :-) |
| 20:42.41 | Chestal | or didn't we have that before and Iknow it from other autoconf based projects? |
| 20:45.42 | patlabor221 | ok drive isn't full anymore, now it just segfaults on the build |
| 20:45.50 | patlabor221 | /usr/include/c++/3.2.2/bits/stl_alloc.h:-29977: internal error: Segmentation |
| 20:45.50 | patlabor221 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.31 | Chestal | while compiling which file? |
| 20:46.43 | patlabor221 | In file included from /usr/include/c++/3.2.2/bits/char_traits.h:46, |
| 20:46.43 | patlabor221 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.43 | patlabor221 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.43 | patlabor221 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:46.43 | patlabor221 | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:47.56 | Chestal | hmm, common includes string, vector and sstream |
| 20:48.02 | Chestal | sounds liek something to clean upin a future release |
| 20:49.01 | Chestal | Pat: up to that place it should have includes mostly standard headers,except for glstuff I think |
| 20:49.16 | patlabor221 | har to tell |
| 20:49.36 | patlabor221 | but I don't think that changed from g0 |
| 20:50.28 | Chestal | there's config.h now with a whoel lot of defines |
| 20:50.46 | patlabor221 | so now I have to change something to build? |
| 20:50.57 | Chestal | still, no source should be able to make g++ segfault of course |
| 20:51.07 | patlabor221 | I'm just trying to help test it;. |
| 20:51.39 | Chestal | your compiler/system is obviosuly buggy; the question is if it's possible to find out what triggered the bug |
| 20:52.26 | patlabor221 | then will everyone with rh9 have this issue |
| 20:52.32 | patlabor221 | let me run the rhn updat thing |
| 20:52.45 | *** join/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c213-200-135-241.cm-upc.chello.se) |
| 20:52.53 | Chestal | uh, we compile with -g? |
| 20:52.56 | Chestal | that's strange |
| 20:53.08 | david_v | hallo Chestal |
| 20:53.09 | Chestal | -g -O2 looks a bit funny to me |
| 20:53.11 | Chestal | hi david |
| 20:54.13 | TimRiker | Chestal: that's the way it was before. |
| 20:54.15 | david_v | what is -g for? |
| 20:54.25 | david_v | i have a lot to learn still |
| 20:54.59 | TimRiker | includes debug info (till you run strip on it) |
| 20:55.09 | david_v | oh |
| 20:55.50 | Chestal | hmm, still strange |
| 20:55.55 | Chestal | does it call strip when installing? |
| 20:56.40 | CIA | commit by timriker: bots |
| 21:03.26 | *** join/#bzflag BZSpiff (~BZSpiff@12-222-147-141.client.insightBB.com) |
| 21:03.41 | BZSpiff | Hey all. |
| 21:03.58 | david_v | hi |
| 21:04.25 | BZSpiff | What's the deal with the colored console? :-P |
| 21:05.48 | doughecka | cool huh? |
| 21:05.56 | BZSpiff | Not really. |
| 21:05.57 | BZSpiff | LoL |
| 21:06.04 | doughecka | you can turn it off |
| 21:06.14 | fiberchunks | spiff? -- wow, that's rare |
| 21:06.22 | BZSpiff | Yeah..... but then all messages show up in white text. |
| 21:06.33 | BZSpiff | How about... when you turn it off.... it goes back to "classic"? |
| 21:06.38 | doughecka | :) |
| 21:06.39 | BZSpiff | Like with team colored text. |
| 21:07.03 | BZSpiff | Because this colored console thing makes keeping track of team chat a real pain in the butt. |
| 21:07.21 | BZSpiff | You have to concentrate on who's talking more than on playing the game. |
| 21:07.51 | BZSpiff | And that's especially going to be a headache in matches... when team chat is verrrrrrry important. |
| 21:08.37 | david_v | i don't see why people say this now though, haven't g1 been around for quite a while. or is this g2 or something? |
| 21:08.46 | doughecka | G1 is CVS |
| 21:08.49 | BZSpiff | This is a newer CVS. |
| 21:08.57 | doughecka | G2 is gonna be G1 when it gets release |
| 21:09.00 | david_v | g1 is cvs, sure |
| 21:09.10 | doughecka | er, G1 is gonna be G2 when its released |
| 21:09.19 | david_v | but i'm just saying the version has been around for a while... |
| 21:09.23 | doughecka | lol |
| 21:09.28 | david_v | haven't heard a thing about these colours until now |
| 21:09.39 | BZSpiff | I didn't have it until today... when I saw Patlabor's post on bzbb. |
| 21:09.41 | CIA | commit by timriker: build non-gui first |
| 21:09.45 | david_v | doughecka: never mind :D |
| 21:09.54 | doughecka | :) |
| 21:10.19 | BZSpiff | To put it simply... I'd rather use the earlier G1 build that get G2 (if this colored console thing is going to be manditory). |
| 21:11.45 | david_v | why not just boycott the version in question ;) |
| 21:12.42 | TimRiker | CVS is G1... there is no "G1" it is always changing. it's more clear to say pre-g2 but that's not what the binary is called. |
| 21:12.44 | doughecka | or not use it |
| 21:13.02 | BZSpiff | *scratches his head* Okie Tim. :) |
| 21:13.05 | TimRiker | BZSpiff: feel free to use any old version you like for as long as you like. |
| 21:13.11 | david_v | well it makes sense |
| 21:13.41 | doughecka | till the protocol change |
| 21:13.42 | doughecka | :) |
| 21:13.51 | doughecka | then ur gonna be allll alone :) |
| 21:14.44 | BZSpiff | But wouldn't it be simpler if you just made the "Color console off" option to revert to the "original" chat form? |
| 21:14.45 | david_v | lol |
| 21:14.56 | BZSpiff | Blue team talks in blue text, Red team talks in red text, etc.? |
| 21:15.17 | doughecka | patches welcome |
| 21:15.31 | BZSpiff | How about you teach me how to make 'em first. LoL |
| 21:15.53 | doughecka | make ur changes and make a patch |
| 21:16.15 | patlabor221 | doug, please try and just contrubute and not gload |
| 21:16.19 | TimRiker | eep. bzfs is now linked to X?!? |
| 21:16.41 | doughecka | lol |
| 21:16.50 | doughecka | is that bad? |
| 21:17.22 | TimRiker | uh, yeah. ;-) |
| 21:18.09 | BZSpiff | *sigh* Well..... I suppose this could be used as motivation to get me working on my C++. |
| 21:18.41 | BZSpiff | 'Cause once the protocol break comes.... and this is still not fixed... I'm not going to be playing CTF.... or at least I'm going to play badly due to the lack of team communication. |
| 21:19.14 | TimRiker | BZSpiff: patches welcome. |
| 21:19.22 | fiberchunks | :) |
| 21:19.49 | fiberchunks | Tim "patches welcome" Riker speaks :) |
| 21:20.11 | BZSpiff | Like I just said... incentive to work on my C++.. LoL. |
| 21:21.12 | BZSpiff | I still don't understand why it was changed in the first place. There wasn't really any reason? |
| 21:21.39 | doughecka | coolness |
| 21:21.39 | fiberchunks | because it looked like carp, and, imho, it's much easier to follow things now than it was before |
| 21:21.58 | BZSpiff | The game, yes.... chat, no. |
| 21:22.08 | BZSpiff | Sometimes a break from chat would be great..... but not an indefinite one. |
| 21:23.43 | fiberchunks | I usually don't read the messages when chatting anyway -- I read the top of the screen |
| 21:24.29 | BZSpiff | Good point. But when you're in the middle of a battle.. that's tough. I usually read them a couple of seconds later (when I'm sure I won't pay for it with a death). |
| 21:24.53 | fiberchunks | read faster ;) |
| 21:25.21 | BZSpiff | Methinks this is just an issue between "it looks cool" and "it's functional". :) |
| 21:25.55 | fiberchunks | it is functional, and it does look cool, plus it helps if you wanna hunt down the rotten sob that's killing you all the time :) |
| 21:26.37 | BZSpiff | When someone kills you.... THAT is when you read at the top of the screen. :) "Killed by ______"... you have time to read that while your tank recovers for another spawn. :) |
| 21:27.28 | fiberchunks | nah -- I like seeing the underline in the message window, and then hunting that name(s) |
| 21:27.51 | david_v | i just watch the scores and hunt people that i have low number of kills on :) |
| 21:27.57 | doughecka | lol |
| 21:28.02 | BZSpiff | Hehe... I know the feeling David. ;) |
| 21:28.36 | david_v | :) |
| 21:28.54 | BZSpiff | I suppose I could just turn the color console off.... but that makes all of the text white... and that's just as hard to keep track of. :| |
| 21:29.42 | david_v | that's the advantage of being a colourblind bzflagger |
| 21:29.52 | david_v | or would be, rather, i am not :) |
| 21:30.00 | CIA | commit by timriker: typo |
| 21:30.04 | BZSpiff | Hehehe. :) |
| 21:30.16 | BZSpiff | Count your blessings. 0:) |
| 21:30.49 | BZSpiff | Oh wellz....... I've whined about it enough. I was just hoping for at least a lil' developer sympahty. :P |
| 21:31.42 | david_v | why not just fork it ;) |
| 21:33.09 | david_v | oh, cya |
| 21:33.17 | BZSpiff | C-yaz Patlabor. |
| 21:34.08 | CIA | commit by timriker: create config.h.in with autoheader |
| 21:35.33 | BZSpiff | Well...... I'm gone. |
| 21:35.38 | david_v | bye |
| 21:35.44 | BZSpiff | I'll pry be back a lil' more now that I have Trillian. |
| 21:36.12 | BZSpiff | C-ya later all. Thanks for listening to my ramblings. :) |
| 21:36.19 | *** part/#bzflag BZSpiff (~BZSpiff@12-222-147-141.client.insightBB.com) |
| 21:44.41 | fiberchunks | wb captain_proton |
| 21:44.53 | CIA | commit by timriker: debian #187947 |
| 21:46.05 | captain_proton | TimRiker: is that a bug#? |
| 21:49.24 | TimRiker | was. |
| 21:49.50 | TimRiker | well, I have not closed it yet. it's a build-depend thing. debian only. |
| 21:49.59 | captain_proton | ah |
| 21:56.44 | captain_proton | TimRiker: what options do you want turned on in the rpm build? |
| 21:56.57 | captain_proton | robots? |
| 22:00.25 | CIA | commit by davidtrowbridge: neu spec! |
| 22:01.07 | TimRiker | yes. robots, no debug. joystick. |
| 22:01.31 | TimRiker | probably need to apply the joystick patch thats on SF? I don't have one to test here. |
| 22:01.52 | captain_proton | there's XIJOYSTICK |
| 22:02.06 | captain_proton | that one uses the linux joystick API directly |
| 22:02.38 | captain_proton | one issue i see with joystick is that the code is a HUGE mess, and its really difficult to get the linux joystick patch applied without making it even more icky |
| 22:02.47 | captain_proton | can we just wait on the joystick until we have a better input architecture? |
| 22:03.03 | TimRiker | http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=685599&group_id=3248&atid=303248 <- that one? |
| 22:03.18 | CIA | commit by davidtrowbridge: just because you think you're a robit doesn't mean you can't have fun! |
| 22:03.38 | captain_proton | yeah |
| 22:04.10 | captain_proton | what i mean is that XIJOYSTICK has a different method of tying it in than USBJOYSTICK, and LINUX_JOYSTICK adds its own |
| 22:04.24 | captain_proton | instead of having a unified method of "this is how a joystick looks to the system" |
| 22:04.42 | TimRiker | ah. |
| 22:04.46 | TimRiker | back later... |
| 22:36.02 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (1000@ky-owensboro1a-242.owboky.adelphia.net) |
| 22:40.06 | CIA | commit by davidtrowbridge: initialize differently so 'make dist' works properly |
| 22:58.44 | *** join/#bzflag sn0w_m0nkey (~guestuser@bgp01383177bgs.montbl01.nm.comcast.net) |
| 22:58.54 | sn0w_m0nkey | ehh |
| 22:58.58 | doughecka | heh |
| 22:59.01 | doughecka | lol |
| 22:59.01 | doughecka | :) |
| 22:59.06 | sn0w_m0nkey | ehhh he |
| 22:59.26 | sn0w_m0nkey | is capton proton around? |
| 22:59.36 | doughecka | I suppose |
| 22:59.39 | sn0w_m0nkey | i wanted to get bzedit for linus |
| 22:59.40 | doughecka | ~seen captain_proton |
| 22:59.40 | | captain_proton is currently on #picogui (3h 28s) #bzflag (3h 28s). Has said a total of 14 messages. Is idling for 55m 16s |
| 22:59.44 | doughecka | ~bzedit |
| 22:59.45 | | i guess bzedit is http://jupiter.babylonia.flatirons.org/code/bzedit-2.1.tar.gz on linux http://www.artemisgames.com/bzedit for windows |
| 22:59.47 | doughecka | :) |
| 22:59.53 | sn0w_m0nkey | dead link |
| 23:00.02 | doughecka | huh |
| 23:00.19 | sn0w_m0nkey | the link is dead in the water captain |
| 23:00.22 | doughecka | try that link? Nidhoggr just used it a few days ago |
| 23:00.45 | sn0w_m0nkey | says to bugger off on his website |
| 23:00.55 | sn0w_m0nkey | captains |
| 23:01.01 | sn0w_m0nkey | the grouchy old fart |
| 23:01.04 | doughecka | works for me |
| 23:01.06 | sn0w_m0nkey | :) |
| 23:01.30 | sn0w_m0nkey | i need 2.0 |
| 23:01.31 | doughecka | try that link I just showed you? |
| 23:01.35 | doughecka | http://jupiter.babylonia.flatirons.org/code/ |
| 23:01.40 | doughecka | there is a bad link someplace |
| 23:01.50 | sn0w_m0nkey | hmm now it works |
| 23:02.21 | sn0w_m0nkey | http://jupiter.babylonia.flatirons.org/older/code/tarballs/ |
| 23:02.28 | doughecka | :P |
| 23:03.17 | sn0w_m0nkey | wow |
| 23:03.28 | sn0w_m0nkey | see what happens when you hit your head doug |
| 23:03.33 | sn0w_m0nkey | you become like me |
| 23:03.45 | doughecka | smart and charming? |
| 23:03.55 | doughecka | :P |
| 23:04.07 | sn0w_m0nkey | i wonder what the mario.tgz is all about |
| 23:04.23 | doughecka | you dont want to know :) |
| 23:04.32 | sn0w_m0nkey | eh |
| 23:04.39 | sn0w_m0nkey | thats what i thought ;) |
| 23:04.48 | doughecka | lol |
| 23:04.53 | sn0w_m0nkey | laters |
| 23:04.57 | doughecka | cya |
| 23:18.13 | *** join/#bzflag CIA (~CIA@12-252-175-3.client.attbi.com) |
| 23:50.43 | *** join/#bzflag CIA (~CIA@12-252-175-3.client.attbi.com) |
