| 00:01.46 | *** join/#bzflag ohgoodgreif (~nunya@pcp02380990pcs.mrdian01.ms.comcast.net) |
| 00:02.12 | Deleriux | works great now, thanks |
| 00:02.23 | Tupone | good |
| 00:08.04 | *** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-133-174.ADSL.mnsi.net) |
| 00:11.56 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-226-120.dialup.innercite.com) |
| 00:15.15 | *** join/#bzflag BaDiN (Paramount@81.193.132.44) |
| 00:15.41 | Carnage | hey badin |
| 00:15.42 | *** part/#bzflag BaDiN (Paramount@81.193.132.44) |
| 00:16.04 | *** join/#bzflag BaDiN (Paramount@81.193.132.44) |
| 00:16.10 | BaDiN | hey people |
| 00:16.14 | BaDiN | can anyone enter a score? |
| 00:16.32 | Carnage | bzg, dmp, chestal |
| 00:16.51 | Carnage | im still waiting him to enter a score from earlier today |
| 00:28.34 | CIA-1_ | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/ (README.IRIX): update the IRIX readme with details on how to build with the better compiler now |
| 00:29.36 | *** part/#bzflag jimmyswaggart (~nunya@pcp02380990pcs.mrdian01.ms.comcast.net) |
| 00:35.10 | *** join/#bzflag brlcad (~brlcad@chr160dhcp1509.chrchv01.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:40.03 | CIA-1_ | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/src/platform (Makefile.am): make make dist work when done on a mac too |
| 00:51.10 | Patlabor221 | mmmm beer at work :) |
| 00:57.08 | *** join/#bzflag kroboto (~kroboto@12-228-209-80.client.attbi.com) |
| 01:00.58 | CIA-1_ | 03brlcad * 12bzflag/ (README.IRIX): prefer GNU make |
| 01:16.48 | *** join/#bzflag Grumbler (~Grumbler@pool-162-84-19-59.sal.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:17.41 | Grumbler | Everybody should own a WartHog :) |
| 01:19.49 | Patlabor221 | that they should |
| 01:20.37 | Grumbler | can you drive it on other levels, or just the one? |
| 01:20.47 | Patlabor221 | what level are you on? |
| 01:20.52 | Grumbler | demo |
| 01:20.55 | Patlabor221 | some have them, some don't |
| 01:20.59 | Patlabor221 | never played the demo |
| 01:21.07 | Patlabor221 | what does the level look like? |
| 01:21.11 | Grumbler | ok....just so it isnt a one time thing |
| 01:21.13 | Patlabor221 | are you just out on the halo |
| 01:21.32 | Patlabor221 | no, you drive many a jeep, tank, banshie, ghost, and the like |
| 01:21.34 | Grumbler | on an island where you get a map |
| 01:21.44 | Patlabor221 | ahhh silent cartographer |
| 01:21.49 | Grumbler | thats it |
| 01:22.02 | Grumbler | drove the thing into the base....much fun :) |
| 01:22.21 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 01:22.29 | Patlabor221 | meet the hunters yet? |
| 01:26.09 | CIA-1_ | 03atupone * 12bzflag/src/bzfs (bzfs.cxx): busy loop waiting for listserver dropped. Wait is handled on the main select. |
| 02:10.37 | Noodleman | :þ |
| 02:14.36 | *** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-133-174.ADSL.mnsi.net) |
| 02:22.07 | *** join/#bzflag Carnage_ (strayer@dyn216-8-132-169.ADSL.mnsi.net) |
| 02:38.21 | *** join/#bzflag Sasami (~jeffm@adsl-64-167-77-62.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 02:38.22 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Sasami] by ChanServ |
| 03:08.55 | *** join/#bzflag doughecka (~rooot@adsl-68-133.lou.bluegrass.net) |
| 03:26.17 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-225-147.dialup.innercite.com) |
| 03:26.26 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (~MAC@balt-209-163-100-92.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net) |
| 03:26.34 | learner | hi ho |
| 03:26.38 | MrApathyCream | yo |
| 03:28.11 | MrApathyCream | well i guess tim blessed 1.10.2 |
| 03:28.45 | learner | hehe |
| 03:28.56 | learner | in his way, I guess that could be considered a blessing |
| 03:29.30 | Deleriux | Yeah, if you download it, you might (still) need to edit configure.in and take out the mac make files then ./autgen.sh it. There was (may still not be) any MacOSX directory included with the tarball. |
| 03:29.32 | MrApathyCream | hmmm SHUT_WR |
| 03:29.38 | MrApathyCream | is that both in and out? |
| 03:30.13 | learner | i know not what you speak of, mac |
| 03:30.16 | MrApathyCream | colorado is down |
| 03:30.28 | learner | ah |
| 03:30.29 | MrApathyCream | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:30.29 | MrApathyCream | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:30.46 | Deleriux | The MacOSX directory doesnt come with the tarball, hence configure bails out. That was a few hours ago mind, maybe they have fixed it now. |
| 03:31.22 | learner | Deleriux: yes, the problem should already be fixed in cvs -- just not in the tardist download yet |
| 03:31.31 | Deleriux | cool :) |
| 03:31.53 | MrApathyCream | oh maybe thats just write, doh |
| 03:32.14 | learner | hehe, mac :) |
| 03:32.50 | learner | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:32.58 | *** join/#bzflag lurgyman (~lurgyman@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 03:33.04 | *** join/#bzflag scanline (~micah@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 03:34.31 | *** join/#bzflag captain_pistachi (~blardebla@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 03:34.31 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o captain_pistachi] by ChanServ |
| 03:35.18 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-3 (~CIA-3@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 03:37.24 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow (~jupiter@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 03:40.33 | MrApathyCream | wow tasks on sf, how quaint |
| 03:43.00 | CIA-3 | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzfs (bzfs.cxx): SHUT_WR is SD_SEND on win32 |
| 03:43.06 | CIA-3 | 03dbrosius * 12bzflag/src/bzadmin (BZAdminClient.cxx): win32 fixes |
| 03:57.53 | *** part/#bzflag Deleriux (~deleriux@user-4889.l4.c5.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 04:12.42 | Grumbler | whoa that was fun |
| 04:21.18 | *** join/#bzflag Nivex (kjotte@adsl-61-144-25.int.bellsouth.net) |
| 04:21.37 | Nivex | kjotte@mystic:~/build/bzflag-1.10.2.20031221$ fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage |
| 04:21.38 | Nivex | dpkg-parsechangelog: error: cannot open debian/changelog to find format: No such file or directory |
| 04:21.41 | Nivex | dpkg-buildpackage: unable to determine source package |
| 04:22.16 | learner | *shrug* |
| 04:22.24 | learner | what are you trying to do? |
| 04:22.36 | Nivex | build bzflag 1.10.2 on a Debian stable machine |
| 04:23.47 | Nivex | the file changelog doesn't exist. there is a changelog.in, but it's got macros that don't do me any good |
| 04:24.23 | learner | there's a changelog.in where? |
| 04:24.52 | learner | never mind.. found it |
| 04:25.54 | Nivex | 1.10.0 was a pain, but I got it to build into a package. I'm having much less luck with this :( |
| 04:25.55 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-1 (~CIA-1@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 04:29.01 | learner | well, you could just remove the macros.. and rename the file -- there's not that many of them |
| 04:29.08 | learner | it's just a changelog |
| 04:30.00 | Nivex | I just tried a "debian/buildsnap cvs". Got farther than before, but now I'm getting a lot of: |
| 04:30.04 | Nivex | make[3]: *** No rule to make target `clean'. Stop. |
| 04:30.41 | Nivex | ah, it's recursive |
| 04:30.42 | learner | are you oppposed to building it "normal" like it's usually built via the make tools? |
| 04:30.44 | Nivex | src/zlib |
| 04:31.16 | Nivex | learner: I'd like to try and make a package if at all possible. I try and keep the amount of random software running around on my machine to a minimum |
| 04:31.50 | learner | well, if you figure out how, lemme know ;) |
| 04:32.43 | Nivex | it's getting late. I'll beat on it in a day or two. if I can figure out what's with the build rules I'll try and document iu |
| 04:32.47 | Nivex | *it |
| 05:00.35 | *** join/#bzflag Spiff_ (~Spiff@12-202-168-199.client.insightBB.com) |
| 05:02.44 | Spiff_ | Blech. Well.. my password has changed.. and I didn't change it. |
| 05:02.45 | Spiff_ | How nice. |
| 05:04.23 | *** join/#bzflag purple_c1w (~jupiter@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 05:06.17 | *** join/#bzflag captain_proton (~blardebla@navi.cs.colorado.edu) |
| 05:06.17 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o captain_proton] by ChanServ |
| 05:13.04 | Spiff_ | Well.. I see that this place is as alive as ever. :) |
| 05:28.58 | Nidhoggr | hrm. would autopilot responding to stealthed tanks be considered a bug? |
| 05:29.25 | Nidhoggr | and can you turn autopilot ability off with a server switch? |
| 05:31.04 | learner | niet |
| 05:31.23 | Nidhoggr | should autopilot respond to stealthed tanks? |
| 05:31.24 | learner | and yes, that would be a bug |
| 05:46.09 | Sasami | how much "cooler" is a dual CPU system? |
| 05:46.40 | Sasami | worth it for like a dual P3 600 over like a P3 633 or 766? |
| 05:47.45 | Sasami | for mostly server/build/lightmap caluclation duties |
| 05:47.46 | captain_proton | depends on what you do |
| 05:47.54 | Sasami | not really desktop |
| 05:48.09 | Sasami | tho maybe IRC and AIM when the main is busy |
| 05:50.04 | Sasami | I just aquired some P3s and a couple mobos, one dual CPU, just wondering what I shoudl do with what |
| 05:53.49 | Nidhoggr | it'd be nice for server stuff... since xp will work with dual cpus |
| 05:54.01 | Sasami | it wil not be running windows |
| 05:54.08 | Nidhoggr | linux? |
| 05:54.28 | Sasami | that or JBdiGriz keeps saying that BSD is the "one true OS" |
| 05:54.35 | Nidhoggr | heh |
| 05:54.42 | Nidhoggr | either would be nice with a dual cpu |
| 05:54.59 | Sasami | seems that with help I am now able to keep a debian system running |
| 05:56.00 | Sasami | it's basicly gonna run, web, mail, cvs, listserver, and testing game server |
| 05:56.28 | Sasami | and be used to precompute stuff for levels if I go the radiosity route |
| 05:58.41 | Sasami | but I have the choice of ether 2 600's or one 733 |
| 06:00.10 | captain_proton | i'd go double if you don't have to spend any moneys |
| 06:00.20 | Sasami | k |
| 06:00.28 | Sasami | yeah no money, have all the stuff anywhay |
| 06:00.43 | Pimpinella | congratulations Sasami |
| 06:00.53 | Sasami | then the 733 goes to work as a desky machine |
| 06:00.54 | Sasami | ?? |
| 06:01.45 | Pimpinella | for running debian all alone ;) |
| 06:01.48 | Sasami | what did I do now? what ever it was, you can't prove it, and I didn't know she was your daughter |
| 06:01.53 | Sasami | ohh that, heh |
| 06:02.09 | Sasami | bzg helped a lot in seting it up |
| 06:02.56 | Pimpinella | but my daughter is only 15 month !!!! |
| 06:03.31 | Sasami | well yeah and you said no candy for her, so I'm sorry she got into the old haloween candy |
| 06:03.47 | Pimpinella | :) |
| 06:04.29 | Sasami | I wouldn't have to rebuild any sort of kernel or anything for dualies would I? |
| 06:04.41 | captain_proton | possibly |
| 06:04.56 | Sasami | $5 bucks cap says "gentoo" and "build it from scratch" |
| 06:05.27 | captain_proton | nope |
| 06:05.44 | captain_proton | yup |
| 06:06.04 | captain_proton | honestly, i wouldn't suggest gentoo to anyone who wasn't already a 'nix-head |
| 06:06.20 | Sasami | fiberchunks would |
| 06:06.40 | Sasami | I think he shouts it in his sleep :) |
| 06:13.49 | Nidhoggr | I'm all mad, because I got 2 x terminals that aren't seeing ethernet, and I don't know why. |
| 06:14.05 | Nidhoggr | it probes for 10baseT but doesn't see it. |
| 06:14.15 | Nidhoggr | maybe I can find an old 10mb hub, and it'd work. |
| 06:14.44 | Sasami | you mean like the ones the IT guy said got "hacked" |
| 06:15.13 | Sasami | and after we sent MS all the data on the machien they say " umm it's not hacked, it's just all wrong" |
| 06:17.20 | Nidhoggr | you should say "you broke it, weenie boy" |
| 06:17.27 | Sasami | I did |
| 06:17.39 | Sasami | that was after I fixed his "hacked bios" |
| 06:17.48 | Nidhoggr | heh |
| 06:17.49 | Sasami | aka, set his drive jumpers right |
| 06:17.58 | Nidhoggr | damn |
| 06:18.05 | Nidhoggr | how much you paying this weenie boy? |
| 06:18.08 | Sasami | we think he's on something |
| 06:18.13 | Sasami | ohh didly squat |
| 06:18.19 | Nidhoggr | ah. |
| 06:18.22 | Nidhoggr | that explains it. |
| 06:18.39 | Sasami | yeah he kinda inherited the job |
| 06:18.50 | Nidhoggr | ah |
| 06:18.53 | Sasami | all the other smart ones got higher paying jobs |
| 06:18.58 | Nidhoggr | is he making at least 30K/yr? |
| 06:19.08 | Sasami | probably not |
| 06:19.25 | Nidhoggr | then he's allowed to be a weenie |
| 06:19.25 | Nidhoggr | :) |
| 06:19.31 | *** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-132-124.ADSL.mnsi.net) |
| 06:19.33 | Sasami | yeah to some extent |
| 06:19.41 | Carnage | admin for quols on? |
| 06:19.55 | Sasami | but when you are told direclty what to do by the person the pres of the comany puts in charge of you, it's a good idea to do it |
| 06:20.04 | Sasami | and not do the exact oposet |
| 06:20.09 | Carnage | learner? |
| 06:20.09 | Sasami | and take down all network service |
| 06:20.24 | Nidhoggr | true. |
| 06:20.30 | Carnage | sigh |
| 06:20.41 | Nidhoggr | learner is idle for a few minutes. |
| 06:20.49 | Nidhoggr | maybe 10-15 |
| 06:21.01 | Carnage | dangit~!~!!! |
| 06:21.24 | Sasami | all I did was leave for 15 min to get food, come back and mail and all net shares are donw, and he's moving the mailserver sayin "if I take it downstairs it'll just automaticly work" |
| 06:22.32 | Nidhoggr | eek |
| 06:22.40 | Sasami | so now he's gonna send one of the "infected" machiens to MS so they can find his mystrery virus/security hole/ whatever |
| 06:23.03 | Sasami | sadly I no longer care |
| 06:23.29 | Sasami | hence my desire to give you the money |
| 06:25.11 | Carnage | dag NAMMIT |
| 06:26.16 | Carnage | i really need a admin its tk, or be tked |
| 06:26.54 | Sasami | shouting won't make one apear |
| 06:27.02 | captain_proton | nor will repeating yourself |
| 06:27.42 | Carnage | :( |
| 06:27.47 | Sasami | i'd check his contact info on the server if any |
| 06:42.00 | scanline | http://navi.picogui.org:3910/stats/project/BZFlag/ |
| 06:46.40 | Sasami | slick |
| 06:48.02 | scanline | look alright under IE? I had ie5 handy and it puked badly |
| 06:48.09 | Sasami | ohh |
| 06:48.14 | Sasami | umm one secv |
| 06:48.23 | Sasami | no IE on this machine |
| 06:48.33 | scanline | oooh... unusual for you :) |
| 06:49.22 | Sasami | well now adays even on the windows machines I don't use IE that mch |
| 06:49.45 | scanline | http://navi.picogui.org/images/screenshots/cia/ie5.png |
| 06:49.54 | scanline | compared to... |
| 06:49.55 | scanline | http://navi.picogui.org/images/screenshots/cia/galeon.png |
| 06:50.19 | Sasami | in IE6 the top outline on the UTC clock and event coutner tabs are missing |
| 06:50.31 | scanline | hmm |
| 06:50.37 | scanline | hooray for IE bugs |
| 06:50.44 | Sasami | 6 looks a lot better then 5 |
| 06:50.56 | scanline | it looks basically the same in mozilla and safari |
| 06:51.20 | captain_proton | eep, safari |
| 06:51.20 | Sasami | it looks fine in firebird |
| 06:51.42 | scanline | captain_proton: gonk took a screenshot for me |
| 06:51.43 | scanline | http://navi.picogui.org/images/screenshots/cia/safari.png |
| 06:52.16 | scanline | it does eat the bullets a bit, but that's it |
| 06:52.22 | Sasami | http://ryoko.bakadigital.com/temp/ie6-navi.png |
| 06:53.56 | Sasami | don |
| 06:54.01 | Sasami | dono |
| 06:55.10 | captain_proton | ooh, scanline is listening to a good song |
| 06:55.27 | scanline | yip |
| 07:17.48 | *** join/#bzflag MrApathyCream (~MAC@balt-209-163-100-53.qis-dynamic-dialup.coretel.net) |
| 07:18.15 | learner | Moin MAC |
| 07:18.18 | learner | again |
| 07:18.23 | MrApathyCream | heya |
| 07:20.06 | MrApathyCream | anything go on tnite? |
| 07:23.58 | scanline | well, captain_proton finished bzflag.. but other than that, no |
| 07:25.21 | captain_proton | yup. all done |
| 07:25.49 | scanline | just for fun, it's also a halflife server |
| 07:26.40 | Sasami | I love the shotgun |
| 07:27.03 | Sasami | and the way you make the tank able to use a crowbar, fuggiun briliant! |
| 07:27.37 | captain_proton | :) |
| 07:28.29 | Sasami | yes the reach on it is nice |
| 07:28.41 | Sasami | I like the speed of the smaller items |
| 07:29.06 | Sasami | sneak up behind them, and then circle straif around them |
| 07:29.12 | Sasami | they never know what hit em |
| 07:29.43 | Sasami | and it makes that cool metal on metal clang |
| 07:29.59 | Sasami | did you really go beat a car with one to get that sound? |
| 07:30.17 | captain_proton | nah. hit a flagpole with scanline |
| 07:30.48 | Sasami | didn't that dent the flagpole? |
| 07:30.51 | Sasami | or scanline? |
| 07:30.53 | scanline | it was worth it |
| 07:31.04 | captain_proton | both, really |
| 07:31.18 | Sasami | fun |
| 07:31.23 | scanline | we got the flagpole on sale for free from some guy's front yard |
| 07:31.49 | Sasami | was it a famialy named "university of" ? |
| 07:32.09 | scanline | might have been |
| 07:32.35 | Sasami | they allways have the coolest stuff |
| 07:32.39 | scanline | heck yeah |
| 07:35.22 | captain_proton | this is weird, i'm really enjoying a relationship comedy show :P |
| 07:46.56 | Sasami | well I hope 1.6e49 posible key input to key output combinations are enough to deter the casual cheater |
| 07:47.22 | captain_proton | Sasami: hm? |
| 07:48.08 | Sasami | as an inital anti-cheat the sever sends the client a random key that the client has to priocess |
| 07:48.17 | Sasami | and return a new key |
| 07:48.43 | captain_proton | how is that an "anti-cheat"? |
| 07:48.43 | Sasami | and the algo for processing is only in the "oficaial" bins |
| 07:48.54 | captain_proton | pfft |
| 07:49.02 | Sasami | the source releases produce keys that show as "unsigned" in the list server |
| 07:49.29 | Sasami | so it's all still compatable, you just can't connect to a signed server with an unsigned game client |
| 07:49.35 | Sasami | well a unsigned module |
| 07:49.43 | Sasami | you can mess with the client all you want |
| 07:49.54 | Sasami | and the rendering and hud and all that |
| 07:49.58 | Sasami | just not the game logic |
| 07:50.28 | Sasami | if you want to mess with that then you have to connect to servers that are unsigned ( built by you ) as well |
| 07:50.46 | Sasami | it's just a barier to entry for cheaters really |
| 07:51.10 | Sasami | also helps me make sure that the client side and server side game modules match |
| 07:51.29 | Sasami | for what ever game you hapen to be playing |
| 07:51.33 | scanline | Sasami: that's quite lame.. it would be simple to find that algorithm in your official bins and reverse engineer it |
| 07:51.52 | Sasami | yes it would be, thats why it's not the only protection |
| 07:52.01 | Sasami | just keeps the easy ones out |
| 07:52.04 | scanline | if you have the rest of the source, you know where to find that module, and the rest is a short objdump away |
| 07:52.15 | Sasami | like I say Barier to entry |
| 07:52.33 | Sasami | if you want to try and cheat you better at least know what you are doing with the bin |
| 07:52.36 | scanline | but it's not much of a barrier, and decreases the project's overall openness quite a lot |
| 07:52.50 | Sasami | it does a bit, I would not say a lot |
| 07:52.55 | scanline | and people that do understand reverse engineering will make the cheat, then clueless folks will still use it |
| 07:53.20 | Sasami | anyone can build there own tweaked game modules, they even show up in the same server list |
| 07:53.26 | scanline | Sasami: it means that there are 'official' binaries that only you create, that goes against a lot of open source philosophu |
| 07:53.27 | Sasami | they just show up in a difrent list |
| 07:53.30 | captain_proton | thats the biggest problem i had with p2501 |
| 07:53.31 | scanline | er, philosophy even |
| 07:53.34 | Sasami | I know it does |
| 07:53.42 | Sasami | but I am trying to keep it open in spirit |
| 07:53.49 | captain_proton | aside from it being a not-very-good game :P |
| 07:54.05 | scanline | Sasami: the best way to prevent cheating is to put as much sanity checking and game logic as possible server-side |
| 07:54.16 | Sasami | yes that is being done as well |
| 07:54.26 | Sasami | unlike frank I am not beting the farm on this |
| 07:54.26 | scanline | then why bother with the silly tricks? |
| 07:54.31 | Sasami | it's easy |
| 07:54.42 | Sasami | and I don't think it changes the "openness" of it |
| 07:54.44 | scanline | pointless things are often easy :) |
| 07:55.08 | Sasami | cube and nettrek do similar things, and it seems to work somewhat well for them |
| 07:55.13 | Sasami | and they are considerd "open" |
| 07:56.23 | Sasami | P24 can and will download items to a client, so it is nice to put some sort of "key" on servers |
| 07:58.09 | Sasami | and if it dosn't work out, it can just be used to signify, release, beta, and alpha game types |
| 07:59.27 | Sasami | cube went even further, they have source releases that are incompatable with the bins |
| 07:59.41 | Sasami | here at least it just puts your servers in a difrent section of the list server |
| 08:00.28 | scanline | if your server-side cheat detection is good enough though, why bother? |
| 08:00.52 | Sasami | I need to ensure that the client and server modules match |
| 08:01.06 | Sasami | since there can be many of them |
| 08:01.42 | Sasami | if somone screws up a name, I need to verify that the client loaded the right module |
| 08:01.50 | Sasami | so that it's playing the same game the server is |
| 08:03.38 | Sasami | so a quicky string process seemed to be a good idea |
| 08:04.46 | Sasami | but I do realise how pointless it is now, if I plan to allow python game modules as well |
| 08:04.50 | Sasami | no closed source in those |
| 08:05.04 | Sasami | well I'll just keep it for the module match then |
| 08:06.32 | Sasami | and to flag off "experimental" modules that don't show in the default config |
| 08:06.50 | scanline | Sasami: well, it would also just be screwed up by people playing using different compilers |
| 08:06.59 | scanline | Sasami: using a hash of the binary for anything is a bad idea |
| 08:07.15 | scanline | Sasami: to keep versions in sync, you could just use version numbers... |
| 08:07.17 | Sasami | it's not really a hash |
| 08:07.21 | Sasami | it is logic |
| 08:07.31 | Sasami | so no it won't get screwed by difrent compilers |
| 08:07.35 | Sasami | it's not based on the file at all |
| 08:07.43 | Sasami | but yes there are verson numbers in there too |
| 08:08.32 | Sasami | I don't think it's exactly like how you think it is |
| 08:09.19 | Sasami | tho I have a feeling that linux .so's may not be able to do what I want them to do |
| 08:09.38 | captain_proton | .so's can do everything |
| 08:09.39 | scanline | you started to explain it like you have a secret algorithm in the binary somewhere, then you said something about string processing so I thought you mean taking a hash of the actual binary |
| 08:09.51 | *** join/#bzflag tapo (~hannes@p50928AF5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:09.55 | Sasami | no, nothing is read from the binary |
| 08:10.02 | Sasami | the input is sent as a messge from the server |
| 08:10.08 | Sasami | the client processes it |
| 08:10.08 | scanline | hard to run the program if you don't read it :) |
| 08:10.11 | Sasami | and just send it back |
| 08:10.33 | Sasami | heh |
| 08:10.48 | Sasami | but it won't work for python I just realised |
| 08:10.50 | Sasami | so it's moot for that |
| 08:11.09 | Sasami | makes the list server display easyer if I don't use it for that anyway |
| 08:11.17 | scanline | well, there are ways to obfuscate python code |
| 08:11.28 | scanline | it's really no different than compiled C code |
| 08:11.30 | Sasami | more trouble then it's worth |
| 08:11.48 | scanline | even if your secret algorithm is compiled, there's nothing stopping people from using it in their modified client |
| 08:11.58 | Sasami | yeah |
| 08:12.10 | Sasami | but the client dosn't actualy do any game logic |
| 08:12.21 | scanline | then why bother with this? |
| 08:12.33 | Sasami | cus it's that module that does the game logic |
| 08:12.42 | Sasami | well the client side part of it at least |
| 08:13.01 | scanline | your game logic involves secret do-whatsits? |
| 08:13.08 | Sasami | just for the key |
| 08:13.21 | Sasami | but your right, its going to be pointless for what I was thinking |
| 08:13.43 | Sasami | this is why I like dicussing things out loud :) |
| 08:14.47 | Sasami | it dosn't even need to be used for the game client, the module name will sufice |
| 08:14.52 | Sasami | as it has verison info in it |
| 08:15.59 | Sasami | there may be a use for it between server and list server but I will have to ponder |
| 08:18.04 | Sasami | the bigest thing I'm worried about is my module loading idea, I don't know if it will work on linux |
| 08:18.36 | Sasami | does an app that loads a .so have to be built witht he same compiler and stuff as the .so? |
| 08:19.29 | captain_proton | no |
| 08:20.07 | Sasami | so I could build a set of .so files for the common archetecutres for those who didn't want to build there own ? |
| 08:22.09 | captain_proton | sure |
| 08:22.18 | captain_proton | if its C++ you might run into name mangling issues |
| 08:22.20 | Sasami | then it should work |
| 08:22.33 | captain_proton | but thats why you have a set of interface functions done with a C abi |
| 08:22.34 | Sasami | it is C++ but all things are done via an API |
| 08:22.38 | Sasami | yes |
| 08:22.42 | Sasami | I have that |
| 08:22.55 | captain_proton | extern "C" { ... }, right? |
| 08:23.04 | Sasami | trepan did the linux part |
| 08:23.16 | Sasami | I don't know if what he did in there |
| 08:23.21 | Sasami | on windows I didn't need it |
| 08:23.26 | Sasami | I told him to add what he needed |
| 08:23.47 | Sasami | there is one C function entry point that passes in a class pointer |
| 08:24.11 | Sasami | then the module allocates some classes and passes pointers to them back thru that class |
| 08:24.21 | Sasami | then the main app calls those classes when it needs them |
| 08:25.08 | Sasami | and those allocated classes can call C functions from the main app to get stuff like the LGE class pointer, and the other global manger type objects |
| 08:25.33 | captain_proton | Sasami: mmk |
| 08:25.35 | Sasami | and info about the client setup |
| 08:26.04 | Sasami | it all works bitchen in windows, treapan, learner, et all said it sould work the same in linux |
| 08:27.55 | Sasami | the advantage being that you can really do anything you want inside a module |
| 08:28.14 | Sasami | if someone wanted to make pong in the thing they could |
| 08:28.37 | Sasami | there will be a set of "standard" classes for 3d worlds, tanks, pysics and all that stuff |
| 08:28.50 | Sasami | but a module dosn't have to use them if it dosn't want to |
| 08:29.01 | scanline | Sasami: having fun making wheels? :) |
| 08:29.20 | Sasami | it's all based on other libs, so I'm not redoing that much stuff |
| 08:29.37 | scanline | all the stuff you're describing is basically what crystal space was invented to do |
| 08:29.37 | Sasami | just organising the things I have to make in a way that makes it well suited for it |
| 08:29.50 | Sasami | I may use crystal space for the engine |
| 08:30.16 | Sasami | do they do downloadable content and all that? |
| 08:30.17 | scanline | but it has its own system for handling plugins in a generic and cross-platform way, so all this would just be extra junk |
| 08:30.25 | Sasami | ahh |
| 08:30.46 | scanline | I'm not sure what sort of multiplayer support CS has |
| 08:31.01 | Sasami | that is mostly what I've been working on |
| 08:31.03 | scanline | I know they have enough to do a MMORPG |
| 08:31.06 | Sasami | the multiplayer back end |
| 08:31.26 | Sasami | yeah but how much of that multiplayer is backend code and how much is in CS |
| 08:31.49 | scanline | all the code they use that isn't in CS itself is in other reusable libraries like CEL |
| 08:32.09 | Sasami | CEL? |
| 08:32.15 | scanline | crystalspace entity layer |
| 08:32.21 | Sasami | ahh |
| 08:32.51 | scanline | I'm not sure how the networking code is organized since I haven't worked on that part of CS, but I know it's there and pretty capable |
| 08:32.55 | Sasami | well I'm here I'm not restarting it |
| 08:33.15 | scanline | heh, the bzflag attitude |
| 08:33.22 | captain_proton | :) |
| 08:33.28 | Sasami | heh, not really |
| 08:33.35 | captain_proton | makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside |
| 08:33.41 | Sasami | thing'll probably die, noone gives a shit about it |
| 08:33.49 | Sasami | they like firing ping pong balls |
| 08:34.05 | scanline | bzflag or project24? |
| 08:34.13 | Sasami | p24 |
| 08:36.02 | Sasami | I do now see why there are so very very few opensource games, everyone wants to play, noone wants to help |
| 08:36.15 | scanline | and there are too many people that love reinventing wheels |
| 08:36.39 | Sasami | not everyone likes other people's wheels |
| 08:37.01 | Sasami | and not all wheels are the same |
| 08:37.07 | scanline | true, but you should at least be familiar with them |
| 08:37.13 | Sasami | I recall I didn't like the CS api |
| 08:37.26 | scanline | yeah, the CS API tends to be baroque in most places :) |
| 08:37.53 | Sasami | CC++? |
| 08:38.03 | scanline | but if you're going to reinvent something, make sure you understand what it is you're replacing so you can at least try to make yours better |
| 08:38.21 | Sasami | allways a good thing |
| 08:38.22 | scanline | the do-everything-framework is also pretty counterproductive in my experience |
| 08:38.35 | Sasami | it's not really do everying |
| 08:38.37 | Sasami | it's do a lot |
| 08:38.40 | scanline | it's much better to set out with a particular goal rather than just writing everything you think might be useful |
| 08:38.43 | captain_proton | http://www.gnu.org/software/commoncpp/ |
| 08:39.08 | scanline | I know, "do-everything-framework" is overstatement, but most people tend to start building libraries they don't really need rather than building their app |
| 08:39.23 | Sasami | well if you look at the halflife game scanline, they set it up to be extremly modable and it's done incredibly well |
| 08:39.25 | scanline | then once they have their libraries they get locked into using those even if they aren't the best, just because they wrote them |
| 08:39.59 | scanline | Sasami: I'm not saying that being able to dynamically load modules is a bad thing, it's great. I'm saying that there are many existing implementations |
| 08:40.14 | Sasami | i'm sure there are |
| 08:40.18 | scanline | apache's APR portability lib has its DSOs, I think glib has one |
| 08:40.24 | scanline | probably tons more |
| 08:40.34 | captain_proton | http://www.gnu.org/software/commoncpp/docs/refman/html/class_d_s_o.html |
| 08:40.45 | captain_proton | there's one that's cross-platform ;) |
| 08:41.07 | Sasami | nice inheritance diagram :) |
| 08:41.44 | captain_proton | well - some of the other cc++ diagrams are better |
| 08:41.50 | captain_proton | http://www.gnu.org/software/commoncpp/docs/refman/html/class_socket.html |
| 08:42.16 | scanline | mmm |
| 08:46.58 | Sasami | wow it uses the registry just to build a lib?!? |
| 08:47.20 | scanline | eh? |
| 08:48.00 | Sasami | caps CC++ |
| 08:48.39 | captain_proton | huh? |
| 08:48.41 | scanline | right.. but what about the registry? |
| 08:48.52 | Sasami | it's got a .reg file for the windows stuff |
| 08:49.00 | Sasami | seems to be called by part of there instal |
| 08:49.05 | Sasami | maybe it's for the demos |
| 08:49.11 | *** join/#bzflag cniV (~kchan@c211-30-113-108.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 08:51.13 | Sasami | hmm it's for OST, what ever that uses it for |
| 08:52.05 | captain_proton | ost is the namespace that cc++ uses... |
| 08:52.26 | Sasami | oh |
| 08:52.47 | Sasami | well looks like something wants a temp dir, and it uses the registry to store that |
| 08:52.55 | Sasami | maybe it's ther way of doing the home dir thing |
| 08:55.10 | Sasami | still tis interesting |
| 08:55.18 | Sasami | not that I need sockets |
| 08:55.27 | Sasami | enet takes care of net for me |
| 08:58.51 | Sasami | well thanks for the chat and the ideas, I must ponder them |
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| 12:50.17 | CIA-1 | 03atupone * 12bzflag/ (BUGS): Shift+Tab behave diffrently on Linux |
| 12:50.50 | *** join/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c213-200-135-241.cm-upc.chello.se) |
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| 13:03.28 | david_v | rehi, RuFiToS :) |
| 13:03.42 | RuFiToS | hello :) |
| 13:03.58 | RuFiToS | i tyied the new version 1.10.2 |
| 13:04.25 | RuFiToS | theres no jump bug anymore :) |
| 13:04.37 | *** join/#bzflag Manu_1 (~Manu_1@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 13:04.45 | david_v | hehe |
| 13:05.09 | RuFiToS | we have to change to the new |
| 13:05.25 | RuFiToS | everybody is still in g2 :( |
| 13:06.31 | david_v | well... it's just a matter of time :) |
| 13:06.38 | Manu_1 | some people got problems in 1.10 |
| 13:06.43 | RuFiToS | I hope so |
| 13:06.58 | RuFiToS | but in 1.10.2 some bugs are fix |
| 13:07.12 | Manu_1 | yes... working in the right way :) |
| 13:07.20 | RuFiToS | yep :)) |
| 13:07.47 | RuFiToS | but spawns still are a little wierd :( |
| 13:08.17 | RuFiToS | I think they have to maintain the spawns like in g2 |
| 13:09.43 | david_v | hmmm |
| 13:46.20 | *** join/#bzflag richeros (~user@dsl-96-198.br.tiscali.no) |
| 13:46.42 | richeros | howto run bzflag in "windowed" on gnu/linux? |
| 13:47.15 | Tupone | -window |
| 13:47.40 | richeros | thx |
| 14:04.53 | *** join/#bzflag Manu_1 (~Manu_1@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 14:08.12 | learner | ~bzflist |
| 14:08.17 | learner | ~bzflist17 |
| 14:08.33 | Tupone | learner: hi |
| 14:09.38 | learner | hi |
| 14:10.35 | Tupone | I'm talking with Macu |
| 14:10.41 | Tupone | I'm talking with Manu |
| 14:10.52 | Tupone | my fixes work and don't |
| 14:10.59 | Manu_1 | i'm talking with Tapone...sorry Tupone... :) |
| 14:11.18 | Tupone | just a typo :) |
| 14:11.21 | Manu_1 | he he |
| 14:12.07 | Pimpinella | does bzfs 1.10.x use less bandwidth than 1.7 ? |
| 14:12.30 | Tupone | I think ... more or less the same |
| 14:13.13 | Pimpinella | then i have to check my server-config :( |
| 14:13.47 | Pimpinella | traffic is much less than it should be |
| 14:18.03 | Manu_1 | bye all! |
| 14:18.12 | Pimpinella | cu |
| 14:18.16 | *** part/#bzflag Manu_1 (~Manu_1@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 14:24.41 | CIA-1 | 03atupone * 12bzflag/src/bzfs (bzfs.cxx): Trying to get all the data from the listServer before closing |
| 14:26.55 | *** join/#bzflag Grumbler (~Grumbler@h-68-165-122-98.MCLNVA23.covad.net) |
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| 14:59.54 | learner | what is the exact name of the windows bzflag executable? |
| 15:02.13 | learner | anyone? |
| 15:02.14 | learner | someone? |
| 18:10.21 | *** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 18:10.22 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ || http://list.BZFlag.org/ || http://stats.BZFlag.org/ || forums http://bzbb.bzflag.org/ || ban exceptions /mode #BZFlag +e nick!*user@*.dip.t-dialin.net || http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/16/0119206 || 1.10.2 is out |
| 18:10.24 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 18:10.35 | Nidhoggr | http://www.dragon.org/mandrake/bzadminphone.jpg |
| 18:10.37 | Nidhoggr | :) |
| 18:11.47 | bryjen | awww, but you don't get to use the "jump" button in bzadmin :) |
| 18:11.55 | Nidhoggr | very true. |
| 18:13.14 | *** join/#bzflag orchid (~aec@toronto-hs-64-26-176-100.s-ip.magma.ca) |
| 18:14.35 | bryjen | is the large, unlabeled button a directional pad? |
| 18:15.46 | KR | ok enabled it and all is well |
| 18:15.52 | KR | was just a new firewall to me |
| 18:17.20 | bryjen | so your earlier comment should've been "not a prob before _i got this new stuff_" |
| 18:17.48 | KR | lol |
| 18:18.15 | KR | yes - but I got it same day as when 10.2 was released, wondered if tghat might have been it :) |
| 18:18.34 | KR | because it would only happen on a few servers |
| 18:19.01 | KR | bzg's, basement , and the Riker-style 4 team ctf |
| 18:19.16 | KR | others worked fine like macosx etc |
| 18:19.27 | bryjen | too many variables. |
| 18:19.31 | KR | so I couldnt tell if'n it were me or not |
| 18:19.50 | KR | it were my guarddog ;) |
| 18:19.51 | bryjen | odd, i thought all 1.10 would require udp |
| 18:20.07 | KR | thats what threw me off - |
| 18:20.42 | KR | another thing - it wouldnt kick me until I shot |
| 18:20.59 | KR | I could obs and drive around fine even on the servers I got kicked from |
| 18:21.47 | bryjen | i think thats when the server code notices you're not using UDP, when shot info comes in via TCP |
| 18:22.06 | KR | makes sense |
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| 18:31.46 | Nidhoggr | bryjen, yes. directional pad. |
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| 18:45.51 | *** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@c-24-1-99-18.client.comcast.net) |
| 18:45.51 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ || http://list.BZFlag.org/ || http://stats.BZFlag.org/ || forums http://bzbb.bzflag.org/ || ban exceptions /mode #BZFlag +e nick!*user@*.dip.t-dialin.net || http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/16/0119206 || 1.10.2 is out |
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| 18:55.50 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ || http://list.BZFlag.org/ || http://stats.BZFlag.org/ || forums http://bzbb.bzflag.org/ || ban exceptions /mode #BZFlag +e nick!*user@*.dip.t-dialin.net || http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/16/0119206 || 1.10.2 is out |
| 18:55.51 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 18:57.57 | TimRiker | did anyone make 1.10.2 release announcements as in the README? |
| 18:58.26 | *** join/#bzflag chatelaine (~aec@208.48.199.202) |
| 18:59.12 | Nidhoggr | brlcad http://www.dragon.org/mandrake/bzadminphone.jpg |
| 18:59.31 | brlcad | the version number was updated in README README.WIN32 and the ChangeLog (nobody has been able to figure out debian yet) |
| 18:59.58 | brlcad | Nidhoggr: that is awesome :) |
| 19:00.01 | Nidhoggr | :) |
| 19:00.12 | Nidhoggr | waiting for larsl, so he can see it. |
| 19:00.20 | brlcad | i was just going to ask :) |
| 19:00.36 | Nidhoggr | he asked me to take a pic the other day. just remembered. :) |
| 19:00.50 | *** join/#bzflag Manu_1 (~Manu_1@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:00.58 | brlcad | TimRiker: perhaps a README with build steps/instructions? :) |
| 19:01.07 | Manu_1 | Hi all! |
| 19:01.14 | brlcad | hola Manu |
| 19:01.19 | Nivex | TimRiker: have you tried building on Debian stable? |
| 19:01.29 | Manu_1 | what about list server? |
| 19:01.34 | TimRiker | brlcad: perhaps... the README does mention announce steps. feel free to add to it. |
| 19:02.09 | TimRiker | Nivex: not lately. I seem to recall that stable does not break glu-dev into a separate module. other than that it should work. |
| 19:02.09 | brlcad | TimRiker: I mean steps to build on debian |
| 19:02.21 | TimRiker | brlcad: "make deb" |
| 19:03.28 | *** join/#bzflag chatelai1e (~aec@dev.gibbscam.com) |
| 19:03.52 | Nivex | TimRiker: right. I removed the libglu-dev dependency and tried a: fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage |
| 19:04.11 | brlcad | ah.. so simple yet so unknown |
| 19:04.18 | Nivex | lemme try that make deb trick : |
| 19:05.11 | Nivex | make[1]: Entering directory `/home/kjotte/build/bzflag-1.10.2.20031221/win32' |
| 19:05.12 | Nivex | make[1]: *** No rule to make target `distdir'. Stop. |
| 19:05.12 | Nivex | make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/kjotte/build/bzflag-1.10.2.20031221/win32' |
| 19:05.12 | Nivex | make: *** [distdir] Error 1 |
| 19:05.57 | brlcad | TimRiker: as for announcments, I've been waiting for the debian build actually -- so the usual channels haven't been pinged yet with the update |
| 19:06.18 | brlcad | I've added BZFlag to versiontracker for both Mac and Windows |
| 19:07.29 | TimRiker | sweet. |
| 19:07.35 | Nivex | AUGH! my build machine just puked |
| 19:07.39 | TimRiker | distdir broken? |
| 19:07.47 | TimRiker | that should be checked before release. |
| 19:09.04 | brlcad | TimRiker: there were 100 downloads for os x within 10 minutes |
| 19:09.14 | Nivex | I'll have to get back with you guys later. I'm getting "Input/Output errors" on that machine :( :( :( |
| 19:21.30 | Tupone | ~x es en hola |
| 19:22.43 | Pimpinella | i have in mind that 1.10 needs a gcc 3.x to get compiled! is this info wrong? |
| 19:23.52 | brlcad | ~x es it hola |
| 19:24.08 | brlcad | umm |
| 19:24.15 | Pimpinella | Nivex: ping |
| 19:24.20 | brlcad | ~x en it hola |
| 19:24.30 | Nivex | Pimpinella: pong |
| 19:24.35 | Pimpinella | aaaah |
| 19:24.40 | Pimpinella | i have in mind that 1.10 needs a gcc 3.x to get compiled! is this info wrong? |
| 19:24.50 | brlcad | yes, it is wrong |
| 19:25.15 | brlcad | it will build with 2.x, though some versions are more troublesome than others |
| 19:25.37 | brlcad | easier just to use 3.x :) |
| 19:26.08 | Pimpinella | hm, dont know where i heard it, but nevertried to build a deb for woody, because of that |
| 19:26.11 | Pimpinella | :( |
| 19:27.05 | Pimpinella | debootstrap-time |
| 19:29.43 | Chestal | 2.95 works fine for me |
| 19:30.30 | TimRiker | ~x en ie hello |
| 19:30.31 | TimRiker | ~x en it hello |
| 19:30.54 | Tupone | no cross translation? |
| 19:31.10 | TimRiker | only does what babelfish does. |
| 19:31.29 | TimRiker | x en jp hello |
| 19:31.31 | Tupone | Seems that one of the two should be en |
| 19:31.33 | TimRiker | ~x en jp hello |
| 19:31.58 | brlcad | you could always use an intermediate :) |
| 19:32.13 | TimRiker | some things work |
| 19:32.22 | TimRiker | ~x fr de ciao |
| 19:32.36 | brlcad | heh, not that one :) |
| 19:32.42 | TimRiker | ~x en fr hello |
| 19:32.50 | TimRiker | ~x fr de bonjour |
| 19:33.00 | brlcad | there we go |
| 19:33.22 | JBdiGriz | ~x de en guten Tag |
| 19:33.39 | JBdiGriz | as the translation moves slightly off what was first meant |
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| 19:37.33 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (frank@p50820A3B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:37.33 | *** join/#bzflag Quol_detached (~quolsimo@65.39.216.149) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:37.33 | *** join/#bzflag KR (~krrt@cae168-234-054.sc.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:37.33 | *** join/#bzflag stibnite_ (is@aau.cx) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:37.33 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Chestal] by zelazny.freenode.net |
| 19:37.33 | *** mode/#bzflag [+bbb *cell*!*@* *gorb*!*@* *sussudio*!*@*] by kornbluth.freenode.net |
| 19:37.33 | *** mode/#bzflag [+bbb *!*@68.111.116.228 *!*edelstei*@* *!*@*.dip.t-dialin.net] by kornbluth.freenode.net |
| 19:46.27 | JBdiGriz | ~bzflist |
| 19:47.12 | brlcad | ~bzflist17 |
| 19:56.53 | Nidhoggr | we need a bzfquery19/17 |
| 19:57.19 | bryjen | 110 ! |
| 19:57.40 | bryjen | and for large servers 220 ;) |
| 19:58.11 | Nidhoggr | I brought in a HUGE crock pot full of chili to work, and it was gone in 20 minutes. |
| 19:58.36 | bryjen | hmm |
| 19:58.45 | Nidhoggr | it was good. :) |
| 19:58.50 | brlcad | ! |
| 19:59.16 | bryjen | brlcad: ? |
| 19:59.42 | brlcad | wrong window |
| 19:59.44 | brlcad | :) |
| 20:01.01 | david_v | hehe |
| 20:01.12 | david_v | funny how a single character can confuse people :) |
| 20:01.23 | bryjen | there's a joke in there somewheres, but i'll avoid bodily-function humor for now... |
| 20:03.47 | brlcad | dong it if my ftp client didn't give me a subshell :) |
| 20:04.37 | bryjen | http://bzbb.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?p=14318#14318 I think maybe red for the color of the chasers in rabbit chase |
| 20:05.07 | brlcad | hunter green with camo texture |
| 20:05.08 | david_v | isn't green more friendly? :) |
| 20:05.12 | david_v | hehe |
| 20:05.28 | *** join/#bzflag Manu_1 (~Manu_1@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:06.00 | bryjen | or if you call them hunters, safety orange |
| 20:07.01 | brlcad | Manu_1: lo vistes? |
| 20:08.03 | brlcad | new source balls and slackware binary are now uploaded |
| 20:08.40 | brlcad | would someone test one of the new source dists? |
| 20:08.48 | *** join/#bzflag BaDiN (Paramount@81.193.178.7) |
| 20:08.51 | BaDiN | hey |
| 20:08.55 | BaDiN | ah, brb |
| 20:08.59 | BaDiN | wrong server! :D |
| 20:11.05 | david_v | wrong window... wrong server... what next? wrong world? :) |
| 20:11.35 | Nidhoggr | brlcad.. will test... |
| 20:14.14 | brlcad | thxnks |
| 20:14.47 | Nidhoggr | compiling now. |
| 20:19.46 | Nidhoggr | compiling on my fileserver at home. only linux machine I have with opengl libs. :) |
| 20:19.59 | Nidhoggr | athlon 700 with voodoo 3 card. |
| 20:24.44 | Nidhoggr | it compiled and installed just fine (bzflag-1.10.2.20031223) |
| 20:24.55 | Nidhoggr | can't test if it works from here, but no errors. |
| 20:45.52 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (~triclops@203-219-160-62-nsw.tpgi.com.au) |
| 20:49.33 | CIA-1 | 03timriker * 12bzflag/ (README): LSM |
| 20:50.07 | CIA-1 | 03timriker * 12bzflag/debian (changelog.in): 1.10.2 |
| 20:53.06 | CIA-1 | 03timriker * 12bzflag/debian (buildsnap): arch tracking |
| 20:55.45 | CIA-1 | 03timriker * 12bzflag/debian (buildsnap): version tracking |
| 20:58.59 | *** join/#bzflag Carnage (strayer@dyn216-8-132-88.ADSL.mnsi.net) |
| 21:00.08 | *** join/#bzflag drinian (~drinian@pcp03995358pcs.hamntn01.nj.comcast.net) |
| 21:00.20 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@208.48.199.220) |
| 21:00.20 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 21:08.29 | *** join/#bzflag ivan (~ivan@adsl-68-120-241-97.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 21:08.33 | ivan | so how does rabbit style work? |
| 21:09.59 | Manu_1 | you must hit to white tank (rabbit) |
| 21:10.27 | ivan | oh |
| 21:10.30 | ivan | the white? |
| 21:10.37 | Manu_1 | when you are the rabbit... run out the other tanks... |
| 21:10.41 | ivan | mkay back to playing |
| 21:10.48 | Noodleman | yes, and don't shoot the black tanks, they are your teammates |
| 21:10.50 | Manu_1 | bye! and enjoy |
| 21:11.07 | Manu_1 | not really teammates... he he |
| 21:11.30 | Noodleman | well, for all practical purposes they are |
| 21:11.45 | Manu_1 | untill you are the rabbit... :) |
| 21:11.51 | Noodleman | yeah :-) |
| 21:13.01 | CIA-1 | 03timriker * 12bzflag/ (Makefile.am): more debian hacks |
| 21:13.25 | Nidhoggr | is there a way to make a server rabbit hunt without restarting, and have it just time out or stop after a certain score? |
| 21:14.02 | Manu_1 | i don't know.. but i think not |
| 21:14.38 | Manu_1 | perhaps a script with a loop for launch server with differents config files |
| 21:15.21 | Manu_1 | it must run with time out |
| 21:16.03 | bryjen | a time limit, a max score, or "exit if all clients leave" |
| 21:16.05 | Manu_1 | but in this way really you must finish game and restart server. |
| 21:16.14 | Nidhoggr | it'd be nice to be able to just run a rabbit hunt without restarting server, and having it go back to normal play. |
| 21:16.21 | Nidhoggr | after a timeout. |
| 21:17.07 | Manu_1 | with a script (kci style) |
| 21:17.15 | Manu_1 | rotating servers |
| 21:17.28 | Nidhoggr | not listening. without restarting. |
| 21:17.28 | Nidhoggr | :) |
| 21:17.36 | Nidhoggr | rotating servers restarts |
| 21:18.09 | bryjen | you can't switch game styles without restarting. |
| 21:18.13 | Manu_1 | yes.. i said it before... but the final result is the same |
| 21:18.29 | Nidhoggr | I know, I was saying it'd be a nice feature. |
| 21:20.46 | bryjen | maybe a new bad flag, ShootMeNow, shooting that players get you 10 points? ;) |
| 21:21.00 | bryjen | everybody'd chase them then |
| 21:21.06 | Nidhoggr | :) |
| 21:21.39 | Manu_1 | ramdomly asigned like in rabbit mode... |
| 21:22.00 | Manu_1 | and down the player score in -10 |
| 21:22.02 | Manu_1 | he he |
| 21:31.59 | *** join/#bzflag Death_Barrel (clx@gss-tech.com) |
| 21:33.31 | Noodleman | bryjen: i like that flag idea :-) |
| 21:34.20 | ivan | how about an instant blowup flag |
| 21:34.45 | Manu_1 | i think is not funny... |
| 21:34.53 | Noodleman | that would be funny to everyone except the person that picks it up :-) |
| 21:35.06 | captain_proton | ivan: instant death flags aren't fun |
| 21:35.17 | ivan | how about a good wide angle flag |
| 21:35.20 | ivan | it's useful |
| 21:35.35 | Manu_1 | good wide angle? |
| 21:35.38 | ivan | yeah |
| 21:35.40 | ivan | you can see more |
| 21:36.04 | captain_proton | we already have a wide angle flag |
| 21:36.14 | ivan | but it auto drops after X secs |
| 21:36.15 | Manu_1 | more..... :) how? in wide angle your eye is like a fish eye... he he |
| 21:36.22 | captain_proton | ivan: only if the server is configured for a shake time |
| 21:36.37 | ivan | but then all the other bad flags will be worthless |
| 21:36.53 | ivan | antidote == must kill? |
| 21:37.01 | captain_proton | antidote = yellow flag |
| 21:37.04 | ivan | oh |
| 21:37.28 | Manu_1 | would be nice can select themes for bzflag... and it's easy to improve it |
| 21:38.36 | Manu_1 | really i can select themes in my client changing the graphics and sounds |
| 21:39.10 | Manu_1 | new textures for ground builds.... |
| 21:39.11 | ivan | how about a version where you have no real viewport... just the map |
| 21:39.46 | ivan | </bad ideas> |
| 21:40.31 | scanline | Manu_1: write a patch, port pybzflag's graphics engine to bzflag, or shut up :) |
| 21:40.44 | captain_proton | heh |
| 21:40.51 | ivan | don be so meen!# |
| 21:41.20 | scanline | ivan: hey, I ripped away his hopes and dreams with a smile on my face.. not mean |
| 21:41.20 | captain_proton | pybzflag's graphics engine is neat but not neat enough to rewrite |
| 21:41.39 | scanline | and it woudn't be nearly as neat in c++ |
| 21:41.50 | captain_proton | so scanline |
| 21:41.51 | scanline | better to just write bzflag using a real 3D engine |
| 21:41.59 | captain_proton | when are ya gonna port Surface to OGRE? :) |
| 21:42.00 | *** join/#bzflag Death_Barrel (clx@gss-tech.com) |
| 21:42.15 | scanline | right after I finish CIA :) |
| 21:42.35 | captain_proton | oh, ok |
| 21:42.50 | scanline | shouldn't be much longer now.. I just need to finish fixing the stats and implement the XML messages |
| 21:42.56 | scanline | then CIA will be completely done! forever! |
| 21:43.13 | scanline | oh, and finish the web page |
| 21:43.16 | scanline | and fix a few other bugs... |
| 21:43.18 | scanline | but done! |
| 21:44.18 | TimRiker | ~dinfo bzflag |
| 21:45.10 | Noodleman | scanline: be wary of calling anything open source completely done |
| 21:45.11 | Noodleman | :-) |
| 21:45.27 | scanline | Noodleman: I wasn't serious :) |
| 21:45.31 | Noodleman | hehe |
| 21:45.52 | Noodleman | tongue firmly planted in cheek |
| 21:46.12 | TimRiker | debian 1.10.2 uploaded. |
| 21:46.14 | scanline | makes it hard to eat cereal |
| 21:46.20 | Noodleman | haha |
| 21:53.13 | *** join/#bzflag michaelh (~meeqrg@63-229-212-197.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 21:58.27 | *** join/#bzflag jolly (~hjjj@jvnineteen.ne.client2.attbi.com) |
| 22:02.19 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-224-144.dialup.innercite.com) |
| 22:06.48 | ivan | ibot, google for google |
| 22:06.52 | ivan | ibot help |
| 22:07.42 | ivan | wow infobot.org finally died! |
| 22:07.52 | ivan | it's been up for 7 years without an update and now it's finally gone |
| 22:08.16 | michaelh | shocking |
| 22:11.21 | michaelh | if anyone would like to check this patch out and see what they think of it, it would be cool |
| 22:11.23 | michaelh | https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=857700&group_id=3248&atid=303248 |
| 22:11.54 | michaelh | It just allows you to use the names of the players in the ban command and adds the functionality back into the keys thingee |
| 22:12.13 | *** part/#bzflag Manu_1 (~Manu_1@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 22:12.41 | michaelh | aren't you fussy |
| 22:13.39 | michaelh | well it isn't exactly 32 is it now? |
| 22:13.58 | michaelh | that would be cool /ban *.*.*.* |
| 22:14.13 | captain_proton | "This works pretty well now. You send /ban name of player without quotes or /ban player name/<0,8,16,24> <dur> <reason> and it will spit the banning pattern right at you and..." |
| 22:14.24 | captain_proton | sounds like it supports limited CIDR |
| 22:14.25 | captain_proton | but /0? |
| 22:14.41 | michaelh | it just uses a switch statement |
| 22:15.03 | scanline | a switch statement for that is kind of silly.. just use bit shifting to generate a real host mask |
| 22:15.13 | captain_proton | and... /0?? |
| 22:15.15 | scanline | then you can use 32, 27, and such... |
| 22:15.23 | michaelh | can't get to the real ip as is |
| 22:15.55 | michaelh | unless I want to make 'friends' |
| 22:16.17 | michaelh | It's burried in Address |
| 22:16.31 | scanline | but... /0? |
| 22:16.51 | michaelh | what does it mean |
| 22:16.52 | michaelh | ? |
| 22:16.58 | michaelh | Or is it just stupid |
| 22:17.02 | scanline | you should know, you wrote that code :) |
| 22:17.26 | michaelh | It just bans the entire IP |
| 22:17.31 | michaelh | 12.123.4123.1 |
| 22:17.40 | scanline | no, that's /32 |
| 22:17.55 | michaelh | doh |
| 22:18.03 | scanline | .4123.1? |
| 22:18.07 | scanline | interesting IP |
| 22:18.21 | michaelh | dang you guys are fussy folks |
| 22:18.46 | scanline | michaelh: the difference between /0 and /32 isn't really subtle |
| 22:18.54 | michaelh | how about -1.-@#@.asdasd.#$#$ASDASDASD |
| 22:19.04 | scanline | /0 generates a 0-bit network mask... so you'd be blocking every IP |
| 22:19.13 | scanline | /32 is a 32-bit network mask, so it blocks exactly one IP |
| 22:19.20 | michaelh | ah so |
| 22:19.27 | michaelh | pfffft |
| 22:19.56 | michaelh | So should I just butcher Address then? |
| 22:20.16 | michaelh | perhaps a const return or something? |
| 22:20.57 | michaelh | yes provided you have a real ip to begin with |
| 22:21.11 | scanline | the IP doesn't matter, this is on the IP mask |
| 22:21.23 | michaelh | huh |
| 22:21.28 | scanline | /0 would give you 0.0.0.0, /8 gives you 255.0.0.0, etc. |
| 22:21.36 | michaelh | I have to get the IP of the player in question |
| 22:21.47 | captain_proton | no you don't |
| 22:21.52 | captain_proton | the server just has to be a bit smarter |
| 22:22.19 | michaelh | So how the freak do I know what to ban? |
| 22:22.56 | captain_proton | i sense a couple solutions |
| 22:23.07 | captain_proton | you can let the admin guess and just do playername/cidr |
| 22:23.19 | captain_proton | or you can have the server reveal what -class- network it is, but not the actual address |
| 22:23.28 | captain_proton | sending the player address to an admin is a bad idea |
| 22:23.50 | michaelh | playerlist ? |
| 22:24.34 | TimRiker | sending the player address to admins is actually a good idea. |
| 22:24.46 | TimRiker | and it's in there in playerlist now iirc |
| 22:24.59 | captain_proton | TimRiker: possibly =/ |
| 22:25.07 | michaelh | that doesn't answer the question of how the server gets the ip to begin with |
| 22:25.17 | captain_proton | the server knows the IP because it has to |
| 22:25.28 | TimRiker | michaelh: the server gets it from the tcp connection and then uses that address for udp packets. |
| 22:25.56 | michaelh | I cant get to the raw address however, just a cstring as its written currently |
| 22:26.10 | michaelh | the real ip is private in Address |
| 22:26.24 | TimRiker | note: that is the address as the server sees it and may not be the actual address the client is running on in the case of NAT firewalls, proxies, etc. |
| 22:26.35 | michaelh | eek |
| 22:26.49 | captain_proton | we should maybe overhaul the address stuff |
| 22:26.52 | TimRiker | but it IS the correct one to ban. ;-) |
| 22:27.21 | michaelh | like I said a const return of the real ip could be done |
| 22:27.26 | TimRiker | michaelh: check the code in playerlist. it displays it. |
| 22:28.26 | michaelh | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:28.32 | TimRiker | uses peer.getDotNotation nod |
| 22:29.50 | michaelh | I don't anyone's ever tried to use the real ip address so far |
| 22:31.49 | captain_proton | eegh |
| 22:31.51 | captain_proton | i ask you |
| 22:32.00 | captain_proton | what is the point of including bad flags if they shake after 5s? |
| 22:32.30 | TimRiker | michaelh: hmm. taddr should work for you. probably some duplication there now. |
| 22:33.24 | TimRiker | player[t].taddr.sin_addr |
| 22:33.35 | michaelh | hmmm |
| 22:34.12 | michaelh | do you understand why the validation is so complex? |
| 22:34.38 | michaelh | he doesn't just apply the mask and compare it to the input |
| 22:35.07 | michaelh | he ors the nots -- sort of |
| 22:36.06 | michaelh | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:36.06 | michaelh | mask.s_addr = htonl((ntohl(mask.s_addr) & 0xff000000) | (ntohl(ipAddr.s_addr) & 0x00ffffff)); |
| 22:36.06 | michaelh | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:36.54 | captain_proton | thats basically just quantizing cidr into the 3 classes |
| 22:37.52 | michaelh | but why not just if address & not mask = input |
| 22:38.13 | captain_proton | thats what we're suggesting :) |
| 22:38.23 | captain_proton | just in a roundabout way, but pointing out that /0 is silly |
| 22:38.46 | bryjen | captain_proton: ~baneverybody ;) |
| 22:38.53 | michaelh | It was just an index into a switch more or less |
| 22:39.06 | michaelh | not required either |
| 22:39.15 | captain_proton | but... /0 ?? |
| 22:39.30 | michaelh | obviously I had the concept backwards |
| 22:39.44 | TimRiker | michaelh: yeah it could be rewritten to skip the if, just or with ~mask should work. yes? |
| 22:39.48 | bryjen | if youre using hostmasks instead of netmask :) |
| 22:39.49 | captain_proton | ah |
| 22:39.59 | captain_proton | ok, that makes a little more sense |
| 22:40.16 | bryjen | hmm |
| 22:40.21 | bryjen | ~dict netmask |
| 22:40.30 | michaelh | is there is book or something ? |
| 22:40.36 | TimRiker | stevens |
| 22:41.24 | bryjen | ibot: Hello? |
| 22:41.26 | | Howdy Bub |
| 22:41.30 | bryjen | k |
| 22:41.33 | TimRiker | http://www.kohala.com/start/#books |
| 22:41.36 | bryjen | ~jargon netmask |
| 22:41.40 | TimRiker | ~status |
| 22:41.41 | | Since Tue Dec 23 18:55:39 2003, there have been 1 modification, 20 questions, 12 dunnos, 0 morons and 43 commands. I have been awake for 3h 46m 1s this session, and currently reference 89174 factoids. I'm using about 12604 kB of memory. With 1 active fork. Process time user/system 199.91/32.29 child 41.59/4.94 |
| 22:41.55 | TimRiker | fork is hanging. give it a bit. |
| 22:42.28 | TimRiker | likely at least the first one is blocking. |
| 22:42.46 | michaelh | he doesn4t know which fork to take huh |
| 22:42.53 | michaelh | hmmm |
| 22:43.46 | bryjen | i know ive seen inverted (1s for the bits you want ignored) masks somewheres |
| 22:44.59 | bryjen | but it usually the other way around (0's for the one you want ignored), so 0.0.0.0 or /0 = all zeroes = ignore all = match anything |
| 22:46.17 | TimRiker | michaelh: it would be nice to disallow banning your own ip by checking that against the proposed ban. |
| 22:46.51 | michaelh | Except of course if you are the only player on your own machine testing the program |
| 22:46.52 | bryjen | awww, TimRiker takes all the fun out not letting the admin shoot themself in the foot. ;) |
| 22:46.54 | brlcad | aww, that's no fun :) |
| 22:46.58 | brlcad | ha |
| 22:47.01 | michaelh | Did that just happen to you I suppose ? |
| 22:47.08 | TimRiker | nope. |
| 22:47.24 | michaelh | I just comment out the kick part |
| 22:47.30 | TimRiker | just figured that's better than checking the /n parameter. |
| 22:47.53 | TimRiker | /0 would ban you so it should not be allowed, etc. |
| 22:48.01 | *** join/#bzflag tensai (~tensai@ts46-01-qdr2863.gpass.or.charter.com) |
| 22:49.03 | michaelh | Do robot players show up as real player[] doodads |
| 22:49.26 | michaelh | I have trouble testing anything except banning myself |
| 22:49.33 | TimRiker | michaelh: yes they do. |
| 22:49.48 | TimRiker | but with the same ip as you. |
| 22:50.04 | michaelh | hmm |
| 22:50.28 | TimRiker | ssh port forwarding from a remote box back to your server should work. |
| 22:50.46 | brlcad | ~literal bzflist |
| 22:50.58 | TimRiker | bzflist is a command. |
| 22:51.04 | brlcad | ah k |
| 22:51.26 | bryjen | start a public server with and empty map and a bazillion shots, soon you'll have plenty of l*cough*users to ban |
| 22:51.55 | michaelh | on dial up? |
| 22:52.03 | michaelh | ;) |
| 22:52.06 | TimRiker | shell to remote machines and run bzadmin a few times. ;-) |
| 22:52.14 | bryjen | ooops, forgot the <joke> tag |
| 22:52.26 | michaelh | true tim I can do that |
| 22:52.48 | michaelh | although I am on dsl at work here |
| 22:52.58 | TimRiker | they can be on a local lan and you on localhost so you can ban them. |
| 22:53.17 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-126-24.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 22:53.19 | TimRiker | just don't ban localhost. ;-) |
| 22:53.26 | michaelh | and there is no network nazi since it's just a router stuck to an account |
| 22:53.38 | michaelh | and I'm the only one in the office |
| 22:53.47 | michaelh | dsl account |
| 22:53.57 | michaelh | normal everyday |
| 22:54.34 | bryjen | :P |
| 22:54.43 | michaelh | meow |
| 22:56.07 | bryjen | eh? |
| 22:56.30 | bryjen | oh, poor kitty. guess thats where the first four went too. |
| 22:56.33 | michaelh | cat 5 |
| 22:56.55 | michaelh | bad news after cat 7 I suppose |
| 22:58.08 | michaelh | well I am going to head off to home |
| 22:58.14 | michaelh | work a bit on this later |
| 22:58.23 | bryjen | there's a plan |
| 23:00.51 | *** part/#bzflag jolly (~hjjj@jvnineteen.ne.client2.attbi.com) |
| 23:04.46 | *** part/#bzflag michaelh (~meeqrg@63-229-212-197.mpls.qwest.net) |
| 23:08.02 | shkoo | hi |
| 23:08.09 | Nidhoggr | hi shkoo |
| 23:08.22 | shkoo | is there still confusion regarding netmasks or was it figured out? |
| 23:19.16 | Pimpi_rrrzzz | g'night al |
| 23:19.18 | Pimpi_rrrzzz | all |
| 23:21.02 | *** part/#bzflag drinian (~drinian@pcp03995358pcs.hamntn01.nj.comcast.net) |
| 23:53.31 | CIA-1 | 03atupone * 12bzflag/src/bzfs (bzfs.cxx): Cannot use shutdown for http, communication will be broken. |
