| 00:02.19 | Patlabor221 | what are you trying to do? |
| 00:04.41 | michaelhhh | just launch a shortcut |
| 00:04.45 | michaelhhh | basically |
| 00:05.10 | Patlabor221 | if it's a real shortucut the the shell is best |
| 00:05.49 | Patlabor221 | cus you never know what the shortcut points to |
| 00:06.04 | michaelhhh | interestingly, it launches explorer and ignores my argument |
| 00:06.15 | Patlabor221 | what is your argument? |
| 00:06.28 | michaelhhh | http:////www.google.com |
| 00:06.39 | Patlabor221 | why 4 slashes? |
| 00:06.45 | michaelhhh | tried http://www.google.com |
| 00:06.57 | Patlabor221 | don't hack, debug :) |
| 00:07.03 | Patlabor221 | your confusing / with \ |
| 00:07.11 | Patlabor221 | C uses \ not / |
| 00:07.24 | michaelhhh | is a char * acceptable as an argument? I'm assuming it is |
| 00:07.30 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 00:07.35 | *** join/#bzflag cniV (~kchan@c211-30-115-17.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 00:07.41 | Patlabor221 | hit F1 and read the help on it |
| 00:07.49 | Patlabor221 | you have MSDN isntalled right? |
| 00:08.06 | michaelhhh | it's not been installed correctly for some time now :) |
| 00:08.11 | michaelhhh | I can read it on the web though |
| 00:08.12 | Patlabor221 | you should fix that |
| 00:08.24 | Patlabor221 | do you have visual assist? |
| 00:09.14 | Patlabor221 | step in the debuer and make sure your seting all your params right |
| 00:10.51 | michaelhhh | I can see all the arguments seem to be there and make sense |
| 00:10.54 | michaelhhh | in the debugger |
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| 00:16.02 | *** join/#bzflag drinian (~drinian@pcp03995358pcs.hamntn01.nj.comcast.net) |
| 00:21.54 | michaelhhh | My company developed this extension of our proprietary development environment that launches from a webpage |
| 00:22.04 | michaelhhh | and they wanted a URL with an icon in it |
| 00:22.10 | michaelhhh | that's the main reason |
| 00:24.03 | michaelhhh | I did something stupid like just launch a URL, can I just put it in a WinMain without all the other garbeldy gook that a real windows program needs? |
| 00:26.13 | michaelhhh | well but you don't have such sexy declarations like API_ENTRY_MAIN_TYPE |
| 00:26.13 | Patlabor221 | yes you can |
| 00:26.18 | Patlabor221 | no no |
| 00:26.32 | Patlabor221 | hell you can slap an icon on a shortcut |
| 00:26.45 | michaelhhh | Yes I did that already |
| 00:26.51 | Patlabor221 | then you are done |
| 00:26.58 | michaelhhh | I just figured it was so simple I should know how to do it |
| 00:27.04 | Patlabor221 | you don't need a winproc unless your going to make a window |
| 00:27.28 | michaelhhh | can you actually edit an icon in a URL file? I had to put it on the network |
| 00:27.45 | Patlabor221 | the shortcut? |
| 00:27.54 | michaelhhh | yes.. please don't laugh at me |
| 00:27.54 | Patlabor221 | all shortcuts can refrence an icon |
| 00:28.04 | Patlabor221 | it's not IN the shortcut tho |
| 00:28.06 | michaelhhh | but they don't carry it around with them.. right? |
| 00:28.18 | Patlabor221 | ummm I dono if they have a resource section |
| 00:28.42 | Patlabor221 | open one in visual studio and find out |
| 00:32.29 | michaelhhh | it's actually a text file.. but microsquash hides that fact, so I think the answer is no |
| 00:32.46 | Patlabor221 | what is in it? |
| 00:34.08 | michaelhhh | [DEFAULT] |
| 00:34.09 | michaelhhh | BASEURL=http://www.cyanwerks.com/file-format-url.html |
| 00:34.09 | michaelhhh | [InternetShortcut] |
| 00:34.09 | michaelhhh | URL=http://www.cyanwerks.com/file-format-url.html |
| 00:34.09 | michaelhhh | Modified=A052843DDF19C40170 |
| 00:34.32 | michaelhhh | says in win2k and greator you have to use dos "edit" to see it |
| 00:35.17 | michaelhhh | but since I'm in win98 I can edit it with notepad :) |
| 00:40.09 | michaelhhh | heh |
| 00:40.20 | michaelhhh | it's good enough to compile bzflag for the moment |
| 00:40.28 | Patlabor221 | so |
| 00:40.33 | michaelhhh | It's about format time though |
| 00:41.07 | Patlabor221 | so format |
| 00:41.20 | Patlabor221 | it's not like wine, it dosn't get better with age :) |
| 00:41.56 | purple_cow | heh |
| 00:43.41 | Patlabor221 | the 9x OSs have allways been pathetic |
| 00:46.12 | michaelhhh | the treat-me-like-an-idiot features have multiplied however from XP on |
| 00:46.23 | michaelhhh | although you can turn most of it off |
| 00:46.29 | Patlabor221 | yes they can be |
| 00:46.48 | Patlabor221 | even fiberchunks, a CLI die hard says XP is decently nice |
| 00:46.59 | Patlabor221 | install .net server 2k3 |
| 00:47.07 | Patlabor221 | it's XP with all the crap off by default |
| 00:47.16 | michaelhhh | interesting |
| 00:47.28 | Patlabor221 | and at least the 32 bit kernels are way more stable then that bastard hybrid thing you have there |
| 00:47.40 | michaelhhh | no scratching dogs in the search menu? |
| 00:47.51 | Patlabor221 | not by default |
| 00:48.11 | Patlabor221 | it's all turn offable in Xp just by hiting "windows classic" in 2 places |
| 00:48.30 | Patlabor221 | hell redhat gnome was harder to make not be all happy |
| 00:49.32 | michaelhhh | I did figure out how to turn the stuff off, but nothing is quite as nightmereish as the search function with everything on |
| 00:50.25 | Patlabor221 | there are many things worse, you just like to overreact :) |
| 00:50.34 | *** join/#bzflag Cruise (~cgiirc@66.62.140.111) |
| 00:51.28 | Patlabor221 | this is my windows XP |
| 00:51.29 | *** part/#bzflag Cruise (~cgiirc@66.62.140.111) |
| 00:51.29 | Patlabor221 | http://jeffm.bakadigital.com/images/imotm/desktop.jpg |
| 00:51.31 | michaelhhh | probably helps granny find the porn on her computer |
| 00:51.41 | Patlabor221 | it helps my mom who can't remember stuff |
| 00:51.50 | Patlabor221 | it just dosn't help us |
| 00:52.00 | Patlabor221 | and they asume that we are smart enough to turn it off. |
| 00:52.08 | Patlabor221 | seems they were overstimating the geeks |
| 00:52.38 | michaelhhh | the only reason I haven't updated is because this computer is so ancient -- not really a dread of xp or anything. Bzflag is a bit slower under win2k noticably so |
| 00:53.01 | michaelhhh | but we've had this conversation before :) |
| 00:53.25 | Patlabor221 | then get a new one :) |
| 00:53.42 | michaelhhh | then I have an XP laptop that has 30 or so processes going when it starts up |
| 00:53.55 | michaelhhh | I think that one needs a format too |
| 00:54.03 | Patlabor221 | use the services control panel to turn them off |
| 00:54.11 | Patlabor221 | and stop going to porn sites :) |
| 00:54.19 | michaelhhh | some of it is IBM crap |
| 00:54.29 | Patlabor221 | IBM porn is the worst |
| 00:55.01 | michaelhhh | written in java and hidden in the nether regions of your hdd? |
| 00:55.16 | Patlabor221 | java is evil |
| 00:55.53 | michaelhhh | it may be slow, but evil? |
| 00:56.11 | Patlabor221 | when pages can put code on your macine |
| 00:56.12 | Patlabor221 | evil |
| 00:56.56 | michaelhhh | so, does are activex like things better protected? |
| 00:57.05 | Patlabor221 | no it's vile |
| 00:57.21 | Patlabor221 | why do I need my web pages to put code on my machine? |
| 00:57.29 | Patlabor221 | it's just a web page |
| 00:57.48 | Patlabor221 | so I can have the name of the site follow my cursor, I think I can live with out that |
| 00:58.05 | michaelhhh | If you wrote a neato program and are a slacker and don't want to build a web interface? |
| 00:58.18 | Patlabor221 | ummm, don't be a slaker, hows' that |
| 00:58.24 | Patlabor221 | evil begets evil |
| 00:58.54 | Patlabor221 | if HTML was just extened to do more stuff then we wouldn't need java |
| 00:59.02 | Patlabor221 | flash is cool cus it seems self contained |
| 00:59.45 | Patlabor221 | and if you want a web inteface use php or python to call your stuff server side |
| 00:59.52 | Patlabor221 | no need for java on the client |
| 01:00.34 | Patlabor221 | the JRE is a pain to set up for java apps that arn't in pages too |
| 01:00.37 | Patlabor221 | it's just evil |
| 01:00.53 | michaelhhh | I guess I'd have to agree with that |
| 01:01.08 | Patlabor221 | there isn't a good solution yet I don't think |
| 01:01.23 | michaelhhh | Start/Run/Java -jar "myjarfile.jar" |
| 01:01.30 | Patlabor221 | python and php seem to be atempting to address it |
| 01:01.30 | michaelhhh | or double click on it |
| 01:01.41 | Patlabor221 | after about an hour to get it installed |
| 01:01.50 | Patlabor221 | only to find you have a jar file in the wrong dir |
| 01:02.16 | michaelhhh | you mean the library like jar files? |
| 01:02.21 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 01:02.42 | Patlabor221 | and since they all have the same names, never know where each type is suposed to go |
| 01:03.03 | michaelhhh | since the names probably don't mean anything really I bet |
| 01:03.11 | Patlabor221 | dono |
| 01:03.30 | michaelhhh | they're just zip files essentially |
| 01:03.47 | Patlabor221 | probably |
| 01:03.59 | Patlabor221 | now I wonder what I did to break this ogre thing |
| 01:04.21 | michaelhhh | It would be really nasty without them.. my little FTP java proggie makes like 20+ class files |
| 01:04.36 | Patlabor221 | so make a DLL like thing and link to it :) |
| 01:04.48 | Patlabor221 | or a lib when you build |
| 01:04.49 | michaelhhh | doh |
| 01:04.56 | Patlabor221 | but I guess you can't do that since it's all runtime |
| 01:05.10 | Patlabor221 | just seems like it could be smarter about what libs you need |
| 01:05.13 | michaelhhh | yeppers you are stuck with either the individual class files or a jar file |
| 01:05.16 | Patlabor221 | and if you don't have them go get them apt style |
| 01:05.26 | Patlabor221 | and hide them from little ol me |
| 01:06.07 | michaelhhh | I also signed my jar file with a bogus self signed certificate and now it has full executable permissions as an applet |
| 01:06.13 | Patlabor221 | mmmm starfox sounds soo good when played by an orchestra |
| 01:06.17 | michaelhhh | if people hit the ok button |
| 01:07.07 | Patlabor221 | that's why I think the web lang should stay in the web and a difrent thing used for simple application type apps |
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| 01:43.32 | *** join/#bzflag Fuddl (~fuddl@2001:6f8:9cf:0:250:22ff:fe96:c626) |
| 01:47.42 | *** join/#bzflag lotusleaf (~lotusleaf@lotusleaf.registered) |
| 01:50.09 | *** join/#bzflag Guest152 (~1811e8df@server24.greatnet.de) |
| 01:50.28 | lotusleaf | hi, what ports do I need to open to play bzflag client? |
| 01:52.19 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-121-28.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 01:54.07 | Patlabor221 | it depends on what port your connecting to on the server |
| 01:54.20 | Patlabor221 | the default is 5054 IIRC |
| 01:54.21 | lotusleaf | hello Pat, well I dont know, i'm just searching for servers |
| 01:54.28 | lotusleaf | it's 5054 udp? |
| 01:54.36 | Patlabor221 | what version? |
| 01:54.40 | michaelhhh | isn't it 5154? |
| 01:54.41 | Patlabor221 | 1.10.x? |
| 01:54.49 | lotusleaf | uhmmm... it's an older version |
| 01:54.50 | Patlabor221 | yeah 5154 but that's for game |
| 01:54.50 | lotusleaf | lemmie check |
| 01:55.01 | Patlabor221 | the list server in 1.10.xx uses port 80 |
| 01:55.06 | Patlabor221 | it's a web connection |
| 01:55.43 | lotusleaf | hmmm |
| 01:55.52 | lotusleaf | i'll try as you suggest thank you |
| 01:56.33 | Patlabor221 | well what version? |
| 01:56.38 | Patlabor221 | it totaly depeneds on that |
| 01:56.51 | Patlabor221 | and usualy you don't have to open outgoing ports |
| 01:57.41 | lotusleaf | 1.7g2 |
| 01:57.51 | lotusleaf | maybe I should just upgrade ;) |
| 01:58.33 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 01:58.39 | Patlabor221 | the current is 1.10.4 |
| 01:58.43 | Patlabor221 | most servers have moved |
| 01:58.47 | lotusleaf | aaah |
| 01:58.57 | lotusleaf | well I d/l'ed the source but it was win32 in the directory |
| 01:59.00 | JBdiGriz | ~bzflist17 |
| 01:59.13 | lotusleaf | heh |
| 02:00.54 | Patlabor221 | only 1 real one left |
| 02:01.05 | Patlabor221 | your on windows? just get the binary |
| 02:01.19 | lotusleaf | nah im on linux |
| 02:01.25 | lotusleaf | I got the source but the dir in the source said win32 |
| 02:01.36 | Patlabor221 | thats just the windows build dir |
| 02:01.45 | Patlabor221 | the source has builds for all platforms |
| 02:01.53 | lotusleaf | ah I guess I didn't extract it fully then, my bad. ;-) |
| 02:02.05 | Patlabor221 | just do autogen.sh; configure; make; make install |
| 02:02.14 | lotusleaf | thanks |
| 02:02.20 | lotusleaf | I look forward to playing it it looks fun |
| 02:03.41 | lotusleaf | lol there's only 1 server for that version? hah |
| 02:03.54 | Patlabor221 | 1.7x is dead |
| 02:03.55 | Patlabor221 | long ago |
| 02:05.10 | lotusleaf | ;) |
| 02:05.26 | Patlabor221 | wonder who the sad 8 people are that are still playing 1.7 |
| 02:05.41 | lotusleaf | LOL |
| 02:05.50 | lotusleaf | for them it's probably cutting edge still |
| 02:06.17 | lotusleaf | dude we're the only ones playing! we're 31337! woot! |
| 02:06.56 | lotusleaf | how long u been playing bzflag |
| 02:07.12 | Patlabor221 | I think I played my first game in 94 or 95 |
| 02:07.28 | lotusleaf | O_O wow it's been around that long? |
| 02:07.33 | Patlabor221 | longer |
| 02:07.39 | Patlabor221 | it's 12 or 13 I think |
| 02:07.45 | lotusleaf | cool |
| 02:08.06 | Patlabor221 | thats prety old in computer years, |
| 02:08.06 | lotusleaf | how many people play bzflag |
| 02:08.13 | Patlabor221 | hard to say |
| 02:08.34 | Patlabor221 | there are usualy 100 or so people on at any one time |
| 02:08.44 | lotusleaf | awesome |
| 02:08.57 | Patlabor221 | there are some stats on the POTM article on the SF main page |
| 02:09.25 | lotusleaf | ah |
| 02:09.33 | lotusleaf | yeah that's what convinced me to d/l it ;) |
| 02:09.43 | lotusleaf | the potm feature |
| 02:10.58 | *** join/#bzflag cruise (~cgiirc@66.62.140.111) |
| 02:11.17 | lotusleaf | is there a seperate d/l for the source for *nix w/o the win32 crap? |
| 02:11.26 | JBdiGriz | ~bzflist |
| 02:11.48 | JBdiGriz | Currently 147 players, but that includes bots and observers. |
| 02:11.49 | lotusleaf | it's wonderful to support all platforms in one archive, I applaud that, but.. ;) |
| 02:11.51 | Patlabor221 | lotusleaf: no |
| 02:11.56 | Patlabor221 | it's not win crap |
| 02:12.03 | Patlabor221 | it's like 12k of projects in one folder |
| 02:12.05 | Patlabor221 | deal with it |
| 02:12.13 | Patlabor221 | it won't affect your build at all |
| 02:12.26 | lotusleaf | Patlabor221: k |
| 02:12.26 | lotusleaf | JBdiGriz: ah cool |
| 02:12.48 | lotusleaf | Patlabor221: sorry I didn't look I just saw win32 last night and thought I had downloaded the wrong thing |
| 02:12.52 | lotusleaf | :) |
| 02:12.54 | lotusleaf | cool |
| 02:13.01 | Patlabor221 | there is only 1 source |
| 02:13.05 | Patlabor221 | for all platforms |
| 02:13.08 | Patlabor221 | the code is the same |
| 02:13.11 | JBdiGriz | There is only one |
| 02:13.18 | michaelhhh | there can only be one |
| 02:13.24 | lotusleaf | ok no more stupid questions from me. ;-) |
| 02:13.39 | michaelhhh | #ifdef rules |
| 02:14.06 | Patlabor221 | singleton:: |
| 02:14.14 | Patlabor221 | #defs are lame :) |
| 02:14.48 | michaelhhh | but #ifdef is better |
| 02:15.09 | lotusleaf | ok one more stupid question.. is there client side skinning allowed that shows up on remote servers and other clients? Like can I skin a giant toad that spits mountain dew? |
| 02:15.17 | michaelhhh | nope |
| 02:15.41 | lotusleaf | darn ;) |
| 02:15.52 | lotusleaf | 82% done almost there |
| 02:16.45 | Patlabor221 | thats it? |
| 02:17.03 | Patlabor221 | there is no client side skining |
| 02:17.45 | lotusleaf | k |
| 02:17.47 | Patlabor221 | you can edit the images to your liking just like you allways could |
| 02:17.52 | Patlabor221 | and they show that way for you |
| 02:17.58 | Patlabor221 | nothing is sent over the net |
| 02:18.07 | lotusleaf | cool. I've never played bzflag before. |
| 02:18.16 | Patlabor221 | quake it's not |
| 02:18.22 | lotusleaf | I got as far as the main menu and i couldnt find any clients.. probably because of my firewall |
| 02:18.31 | lotusleaf | i'm not a big quake fan |
| 02:23.06 | lotusleaf | ok with ./configure are 3dcars autosupported by default? I got confused a little when reading the README's when it spoke of CVS instructions and all |
| 02:23.13 | lotusleaf | or do I need to add an option |
| 02:23.28 | lotusleaf | *3dcarDs |
| 02:23.37 | Patlabor221 | GLis GL so yes |
| 02:24.08 | lotusleaf | ah so ./configure by itself |
| 02:24.10 | lotusleaf | cool thanks |
| 02:24.16 | Patlabor221 | did you autogen? |
| 02:24.27 | lotusleaf | not yet, was reading docs, thanks ;) |
| 02:24.34 | lotusleaf | -3dfx option?? |
| 02:25.10 | Patlabor221 | what card do you have? |
| 02:25.14 | lotusleaf | nvidia |
| 02:25.22 | Patlabor221 | then don't worry about it |
| 02:25.27 | lotusleaf | kewl thanks ;-) |
| 02:28.44 | lotusleaf | I like typing make, it makes me feel special. ;) |
| 02:28.57 | lotusleaf | it's like watching tv in ascii |
| 02:31.18 | lotusleaf | damn.. this is the longest compile i've done in awhile ;) |
| 02:31.34 | lotusleaf | at least this one is effortless and fun |
| 02:32.27 | Patlabor221 | try building the ogre engine |
| 02:32.29 | *** part/#bzflag cruise (~cgiirc@66.62.140.111) |
| 02:32.41 | lotusleaf | what's that? |
| 02:33.27 | Patlabor221 | a 3d engine |
| 02:33.32 | Patlabor221 | take ages to build on linux |
| 02:33.40 | lotusleaf | heh |
| 02:33.59 | *** join/#bzflag tofu (~guess@chr160dhcp1509.chrchv01.md.comcast.net) |
| 02:34.01 | lotusleaf | is it anything like a stage 1 or 2 gentoo install? |
| 02:34.24 | Patlabor221 | thos take a bit too |
| 02:35.02 | lotusleaf | wish i could compile myself some tobacco |
| 02:37.29 | lotusleaf | what's the deal with custom rpms, you have to include source with the rpm in one archive if its a custom build or.. ? I'm a newb but I'm wondering because people whine about wanting rpms for their distro on some linux forums while I dont mind building from source |
| 02:38.07 | Patlabor221 | the RPM is suposed to make sure you have all the dependencys |
| 02:38.18 | Patlabor221 | and they can be easyer to manage for some people |
| 02:39.14 | lotusleaf | so if you d/l source and compile for your *nix distro whats the policy on "make package" rpm releases on the web? include source in one compressed file along with the rpm? |
| 02:39.34 | lotusleaf | I'm new to all this coming from windows. ;) |
| 02:40.52 | lotusleaf | hey this is cool, it finished compiling and it actually has SOUND on the startup menu now. ;) |
| 02:41.01 | Patlabor221 | there are sourceRPMs and binary RPMs |
| 02:41.05 | Patlabor221 | many want the binarys |
| 02:41.08 | lotusleaf | correct |
| 02:41.10 | Patlabor221 | so they can just instal it |
| 02:41.18 | Patlabor221 | the binarys don't ahve source |
| 02:41.20 | fiberchunks | you make a binary rpm out of a source rpm |
| 02:41.21 | Patlabor221 | it's prebuilt |
| 02:41.24 | lotusleaf | I know |
| 02:41.39 | lotusleaf | but I read somewhere that you have to release the source with the binary.. or is that just if you modify the source |
| 02:41.55 | lotusleaf | oh ok I got it confused nevermind. ;) |
| 02:41.58 | fiberchunks | depends on the licensing terms |
| 02:42.02 | Patlabor221 | sup fiber |
| 02:42.08 | fiberchunks | nada, how you doin? |
| 02:42.19 | Patlabor221 | I am fighting with the ogre |
| 02:42.20 | lotusleaf | hi fiber |
| 02:42.29 | lotusleaf | thanks fiber for the info |
| 02:42.30 | fiberchunks | is it winning? |
| 02:42.40 | fiberchunks | np, if it helps |
| 02:43.13 | lotusleaf | Ok gonna give bzflag a try now thanks Patlabor221 for your generous and kind help. :) |
| 02:43.26 | fiberchunks | lotusleaf, oh, and the rpm does _not_ have to _include_ the source, but you must make it available if you decide to become a distributor (under the GPL, imho) |
| 02:43.40 | lotusleaf | TimRiker: thanks ;) |
| 02:43.46 | fiberchunks | or point 'em to where they can get it |
| 02:43.50 | TimRiker | fiberchunks: or lgpl ;-) |
| 02:43.58 | fiberchunks | indeed :) |
| 02:43.59 | lotusleaf | fiberchunks: thanks for the info |
| 02:44.15 | lotusleaf | fiberchunks: a "distributor" meaning what exactly, if you post it on your website? |
| 02:44.24 | fiberchunks | i.e. like mandrake |
| 02:44.27 | Patlabor221 | TimRiker: you got our message about the console ports right? :) |
| 02:44.39 | lotusleaf | oh if you're a distro |
| 02:44.41 | lotusleaf | heh |
| 02:44.47 | lotusleaf | I left my mind at CLI |
| 02:44.48 | fiberchunks | if you distribute binarys of packages licensed under the gpl or lgpl, you must point the people to the source |
| 02:44.49 | TimRiker | we don't release source rpms anymore cause you can build an rpm from the .tar.gz |
