irclog2html for #bzflag on 20040612

`00:09.06`	`*** join/#bzflag Carnage_ (~carn@dyn216-8-132-232.ADSL.mnsi.net)`
`00:09.49`	`*** join/#bzflag _bubbles_ (~nadic666@Toronto-HSE-ppp3937765.sympatico.ca)`
`00:11.31`	`lan56`	`heh, been looking at Tim's IRC log for June 10, and there was some guy called "creak" and it seems he made up some bomb story and a link to a CNN lookalike site`
`00:11.36`	`lan56`	`some people are so stupid`
`00:11.42`	`lan56`	`the link was clear it wasn't real CNN`
`00:12.23`	`lan56`	`makes me wonder what really is at the link, but it probably is very dangerous`
`00:28.06`	`Noodleman`	`what's the URL again?`
`00:28.10`	`Noodleman`	`i'll take a look at it`
`00:28.47`	`Noodleman`	`cnnsomething.cjb.net`
`00:31.42`	`*** join/#bzflag [6yob] (~consus@user-69-1-42-120.knology.net)`
`00:32.37`	`lan56`	`I think something like that`
`00:32.40`	`lan56`	`let me check`
`00:32.48`	`lan56`	`but I am not sure you should, for safety`
`00:32.58`	`Noodleman`	`i've got a secure setup`
`00:33.16`	`lan56`	`that explains it!`
`00:33.17`	`lan56`	`:)`
`00:33.20`	`blast007`	`lol`
`00:33.23`	`lan56`	`WWW.CNNBREAKING.CJB.NET`
`00:33.27`	`Noodleman`	`there we go`
`00:33.32`	`lan56`	`be careful`
`00:33.46`	`lan56`	`might be dead link`
`00:33.51`	`lan56`	`scams don't last long`
`00:34.06`	`Noodleman`	`it's something in turkish`
`00:34.13`	`Noodleman`	`just a bunch of linkbuttons`
`00:34.43`	`blast007`	`yep`
`00:35.05`	`lan56`	`heh, there is a "safe" site called www.digicrime.com I think or maybe .net, not sure, but it uses Visual Basic to do a bunch of junk`
`00:35.06`	`blast007`	`checked it on my linux machine`
`00:35.19`	`lan56`	`says its there to display Windows flaws`
`00:35.24`	`blast007`	`heh`
`00:35.36`	`Noodleman`	`once, one of our dialup customers got signed up for a very high-traffic turkish mailing list :-)`
`00:35.39`	`Noodleman`	`quite funny`
`00:36.05`	`lan56`	`high traffic? like thousands of emails?`
`00:36.16`	`Noodleman`	`yup`
`00:39.12`	`blast007`	`there is this one "flaw" in IE 6 that causes a specified file to be uploaded by just hitting the Ctrl key`
`00:39.34`	`lan56`	`are you sure its a flaw and not a convienience?`
`00:39.47`	`blast007`	`that's probably what Microsoft said :)`
`00:39.52`	`Noodleman`	`not a bug, but a "feature"`
`00:39.55`	`Noodleman`	`:-)`
`00:40.08`	`lan56`	`bill gates is a very handsome man`
`00:40.14`	`Noodleman`	`haha`
`00:40.17`	`lan56`	`I hope I meant that in a non-gay type way`
`00:40.21`	`*** join/#bzflag menotume (~mthomas@pcp08396790pcs.cnclrk01.pa.comcast.net)`
`00:40.32`	`Noodleman`	`i bet they use photoshop on his press photos :-)`
`00:40.38`	`blast007`	`lol`
`00:40.47`	`[dmp]`	`menotume: lunch != irc :)`
`00:40.58`	`Noodleman`	`have you ever seen his mugshot from when he got booked for a traffic violation in college?`
`00:41.02`	`lan56`	`yes`
`00:41.05`	`Noodleman`	`he looks like a nerd`
`00:41.07`	`Noodleman`	`:-)`
`00:41.08`	`menotume`	`[dmp]: I see you on the BB :)`
`00:41.11`	`lan56`	`he looks like a hippie nerd`
`00:41.20`	`lan56`	`the orange glasses especially`
`00:41.34`	`[dmp]`	`menotume: is the mailinglist going to die ?`
`00:41.57`	`menotume`	`[dmp]: dunno. hold on, i'll put you in the admin group - private forums`
`00:42.22`	`menotume`	`[dmp]: but, you must register first :)`
`00:42.44`	`lan56`	`RIP Los Angeles Lakers, you started strong, now you just lost it to the Eastern Conference. The eastern conference! East game scores are like 23:34 and you can't even beat that!`
`00:42.57`	`menotume`	`[dmp]: now your look at the member list`
`00:42.59`	`lan56`	`and after the finals, there are no more players!`
`00:43.34`	`lan56`	`gary payton, kobe bryant, shaq, karl malone, slava medvendanko, derek fisher, all rumored to leave. unbelievable!`
`00:44.01`	`[dmp]`	`menotume: yes?`
`00:44.47`	`menotume`	`[dmp]: huh? I don't think that'll work (you mean email?)`
`00:45.16`	`[dmp]`	`menotume: yep`
`00:45.56`	`menotume`	`[dmp]: hmm, dunno about that - but you seem to be registered`
`00:46.06`	`[dmp]`	`menotume: im in.`
`00:46.36`	`menotume`	`K`
`00:47.47`	`[dmp]`	`menotume: cant you webguys change the blue menu on the frontpage, with something that matches the forum design? :-)`
`00:48.16`	`menotume`	`[dmp]: LOL. I didn't do the webpages - just installed the forums`
`00:49.05`	`menotume`	`[dmp]: If you don't like dark in the forums, you can change it`
`00:49.30`	`[dmp]`	`.. oh the joy of simplicity .. and 82738273 options :-)`
`00:51.34`	`menotume`	`[dmp]: LOL, googlebot is scanning through it right now`
`00:51.44`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy (~Legoguy@c-24-13-129-67.client.comcast.net)`
`00:52.35`	`orchid`	`hi menotume [dmp]`
`00:52.38`	`[dmp]`	`menotume: googlebot visists my sites a few times a day (at least) ..`
`00:53.07`	`[dmp]`	`menotume: i ahve no idea why it do it so often. I guess it tracks if the pages are changed often`
`00:53.17`	`[dmp]`	`howdy orchid and welcome back online`
`00:53.29`	`menotume`	`hi orchid (do I know you?) :-D`
`00:53.49`	`orchid`	`heh, i was in exile`
`00:53.55`	`menotume`	`ahhhh`
`00:54.08`	`menotume`	`is that in Canada somewhere ?`
`00:54.15`	`orchid`	`har har`
`00:55.17`	`GeekTechnica`	`hey guys... I'm setting up a quick bzfs server to test a map, I haven't run a server since, oh 1.7g0 maybe... anyway:`
`00:55.31`	`GeekTechnica`	`is the -i flag necessary for a public server?`
`00:56.54`	`orchid`	`whats -i do again?`
`00:57.30`	`GeekTechnica`	`i believe the usage is [-i interface] from the doc file:i interface`
`00:57.31`	`GeekTechnica`	Server will listen for and respond to ``pings'' (sent via multicast) on the given interface. The server uses the first multicast enabled interface by default. Clients use this to find active servers on the network. This is also the TCP/UDP/IP address the server will listen on.
`00:58.14`	`orchid`	`i dont think you need that`
`00:58.32`	`orchid`	`i cant ever remember using it at least`
`00:58.45`	`GeekTechnica`	`just checkin... I run the server, but I don't see it on the list and can't connect to it directly`
`00:59.11`	`orchid`	`you cant conect locally?`
`00:59.22`	`orchid`	`with localhost or something`
`00:59.30`	`GeekTechnica`	`hmm.. lemme try that`
`00:59.40`	`orchid`	`paste what your command is`
`01:00.14`	`GeekTechnica`	`I can get to it locally`
`01:00.44`	`GeekTechnica`	`batch file I'm using is: bzfs -admsg "Cheaters will be Banned - No reprise" -fb -j -lagdrop 2 -lagwarn 300 -mp 10`
`01:00.45`	`GeekTechnica`	`-ms 3 -p 17200 -passwd ****** -public "The Great Plains - Run by Evil Chicken Nugget"`
`01:00.45`	`GeekTechnica`	`-publicaddr "xdrive.dyndns.org:17200" +r -requireudp -world "hugemap.map"`
`01:01.00`	`GeekTechnica`	`er.. that didn't work right`
`01:01.11`	`GeekTechnica`	`bzfs -admsg "Cheaters will be Banned - No reprise" -fb -j -lagdrop 2 -lagwarn 300 -mp 10`
`01:01.11`	`GeekTechnica`	`-ms 3 -p 17200 -passwd ****** -public "The Great Plains - Run by Evil Chicken Nugget"`
`01:01.11`	`GeekTechnica`	`-publicaddr "xdrive.dyndns.org:17200" +r -requireudp -world "hugemap.map"`
`01:01.43`	`GeekTechnica`	`oh well.. won't let me send it in one message.. but its all there`
`01:02.18`	`orchid`	`dont know about windows, but you dont need to quote the -publicaddr argument, maybe you do in windows?`
`01:02.35`	`GeekTechnica`	`hmm.. lemme try that`
`01:02.35`	`orchid`	`in linux at least you dont, i meant`
`01:02.35`	`lan56`	`no, you dont either`
`01:02.45`	`lan56`	`there is no difference in builds`
`01:04.41`	`GeekTechnica`	`nuh-uh... can get to it locally, but it isn't in the list and can't connect to it directly`
`01:04.56`	`*** part/#bzflag [dmp] (~dennis@port151.ds1-aboes.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`01:05.05`	`lan56`	`try taking out the "17200" from the address, still leaving the "-p 17200" however`
`01:06.05`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy\|Laptop (~Legoguy@c-24-13-129-67.client.comcast.net)`
`01:06.23`	`GeekTechnica`	`nope, no change`
`01:07.12`	`lan56`	`are you positive you have looked through all the pages, and carefully?`
`01:07.19`	`ForthFreak`	`GeekTechnica: you're behind a firewall ?`
`01:07.24`	`blast007`	`try a different port maybe`
`01:07.52`	`ForthFreak`	`ForthFreak: mind if i scan your machine ?`
`01:07.56`	`GeekTechnica`	`I'm behind a cable router.. I used that port specifically because I know I have it open`
`01:08.08`	`blast007`	`k`
`01:08.09`	`GeekTechnica`	`sure`
`01:08.20`	`ForthFreak`	`GeekTechnica: can't connect to.`
`01:09.04`	`ForthFreak`	`GeekTechnica: supposed to be this ip addr: 24.165.214.94 ?`
`01:09.26`	`GeekTechnica`	`yes`
`01:09.35`	`GeekTechnica`	`I also run an ftp server at that address...`
`01:09.48`	`ForthFreak`	`Serv-U FTP`
`01:10.04`	`ForthFreak`	`port 17200 looks closed`
`01:10.08`	`GeekTechnica`	`yep.. I see you connected to it there`
`01:10.22`	`GeekTechnica`	`hmm.. lemme triple check my router.. but I had it open yesterday`
`01:10.28`	`blast007`	`nmap says port 17200 is filtered`
`01:12.28`	`*** join/#bzflag EvilChiknNugget (~Sinn@cpe-024-165-214-094.midsouth.rr.com)`
`01:12.38`	`ForthFreak`	`should you tell your server to use port 17200 as well, rather then only tell others to connect to 17200 ?`
`01:12.45`	`EvilChiknNugget`	`I had port 17200 forwarded to a specific LAN ip address.. and I changed my local IP this morning`
`01:12.47`	`ForthFreak`	`s/should/shouldn't/`
`01:13.15`	`ForthFreak`	`ah, you do`
`01:13.23`	`ForthFreak`	`not seen that bit`
`01:14.03`	`EvilChiknNugget`	`ok.. I got it now`
`01:14.14`	`blast007`	`k`
`01:14.28`	`EvilChiknNugget`	`port forwarding was pointing to the wrong local LAN ip`
`01:15.16`	`EvilChiknNugget`	`thanks a bunch for your help folks`
`01:15.24`	`*** join/#bzflag _bubbles_ (~nadic666@Toronto-HSE-ppp3937765.sympatico.ca)`
`01:27.55`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-224-183.dialup.innercite.com)`
`01:34.42`	`*** join/#bzflag Nikaji_ (~switched@ny-amherst-C4-2-bg1a-6-149.bflony.adelphia.net)`
`01:36.01`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy\|Laptop (~Legoguy@c-24-13-129-67.client.comcast.net)`
`01:37.30`	`SportChick`	`someone tell me something funny`
`01:38.00`	`GeekTechnica`	`ok, so a two guys walk into a bar...`
`01:38.15`	`GeekTechnica`	`You'd think the second one would have seen the darn thing.`
`01:38.39`	`blast007`	`:)`
`01:38.40`	`lan56`	`I got one`
`01:39.03`	`lan56`	`I was at Carl's Jr. the other day`
`01:39.06`	`lan56`	`and eating a famous star`
`01:39.13`	`lan56`	`well, I threw away the wrapping`
`01:39.32`	`lan56`	`and a pickle fell out on the table. That table was too dirty to eat it again, so I threw it away.`
`01:39.36`	`lan56`	`(laughs)`
`01:39.58`	`SportChick`	`don't you guys have any REAL humor?`
`01:40.00`	`SportChick`	`:(`
`01:40.26`	`lan56`	`well, let me think of a funny story, I have a lot`
`01:44.49`	`GeekTechnica`	`here is a mildly amusing story... I used to work at a software company in new york, I was in the helpdesk area talking to a few coworkers about what to order for lunch...`
`01:45.02`	`GeekTechnica`	`in the midst of the conversation, one of them gets an incoming call..`
`01:45.13`	`SportChick`	`oooo could be good...`
`01:45.13`	`SportChick`	`?`
`01:45.20`	`GeekTechnica`	`to which he answers "Support, This is Jerry speaking, how can I eat you?"`
`01:45.48`	`SportChick`	`heh...not what I was expecting, but cute`
`01:45.54`	`DTRemenak`	`I'm afraid all I know are lawyer jokes.`
`01:45.57`	`DTRemenak`	`and puns`
`01:46.10`	`SportChick`	`DTRemenak, go for it`
`01:46.19`	`lan56`	`heh, if you go to bash.org they got a truck load of user submited quotes from IRC, a few are a bit on the dirty side, but you can skip those`
`01:46.21`	`SportChick`	`although I bet I know as many lawyer jokes as you (or more)`
`01:46.26`	`DTRemenak`	`How can you tell that a lawyer is lying?`
`01:46.31`	`SportChick`	`he always is`
`01:46.34`	`blast007`	`lan56: I was just going to suggest that too ;)`
`01:46.36`	`DTRemenak`	`His lips are moving :)`
`01:46.37`	`SportChick`	`he's breathing?`
`01:46.39`	`SportChick`	`ah`
`01:46.43`	`lan56`	`:)`
`01:46.52`	`GeekTechnica`	`what do you call 100 lawyers at the bottom of the sea?`
`01:46.54`	`SportChick`	`what's the difference between a lawyer and a vulture?`
`01:46.57`	`SportChick`	`the size of the wingtips`
`01:47.02`	`DTRemenak`	`GeekTechnica: a good start :)`
`01:47.05`	`GeekTechnica`	`hehe, yep`
`01:47.17`	`lan56`	`cya`
`01:47.18`	`DTRemenak`	`How do you get a lawyer out of a tree?`
`01:47.58`	`GeekTechnica`	`what do you do when you see a lawyer running around with a hole in his head?`
`01:47.58`	`DTRemenak`	`you cut the rope`
`01:48.13`	`lan56`	`finish him off`
`01:48.15`	`GeekTechnica`	`stop laughing and reload`
`01:48.28`	`blast007`	`hehe`
`01:48.48`	`DTRemenak`	`A lawyer named Strange was shopping for a tombstone. After he had made his selection, the stonecutter asked him what inscription he would like on it.`
`01:48.54`	`DTRemenak`	`"Here lies an honest man and a lawyer," responded the lawyer.`
`01:49.14`	`DTRemenak`	"Sorry, but I can't do that," replied the stonecutter. "In this state, it's against the law to bury two people in the same grave. However, I could put ``here lies an honest lawyer''."
`01:49.15`	`lan56`	`ok heres a good one, told by the master, lan56`
`01:49.32`	`DTRemenak`	`"But that won't let people know who it is" protested the lawyer. "Certainly will," retorted the stonecutter. "people will read it and exclaim, "That's Strange!"`
`01:50.13`	`blast007`	`:)`
`01:50.17`	`GeekTechnica`	`hehe`
`01:50.52`	`lan56`	`ok, what is another name for the manager of a movie theatre?`
`01:50.55`	`*** join/#bzflag Death_Barrel (~Death_Bar@cs2427127-19.houston.rr.com)`
`01:51.02`	`lan56`	`the colonel ;)`
`01:51.09`	`*** join/#bzflag Death_Barrel (~Death_Bar@cs2427127-19.houston.rr.com)`
`01:51.10`	`*** join/#bzflag DeathBarrel (~Death_Bar@cs2427127-19.houston.rr.com)`
`01:51.18`	`DTRemenak`	`"You seem to have more than the average share of intelligence for a man of your background," sneered the lawyer at a witness on the stand.`
`01:51.21`	`lan56`	`get it: colonel sounds like kernel, which is like in popcorn, and he works at a movie theatre`
`01:51.38`	`DTRemenak`	`"If I wasn't under oath, I'd return the compliment" replied the witness.`
`01:52.28`	`menotume`	`<PROTECTED>`
`01:52.37`	`menotume`	`Only one if you run him through slowly.`
`01:52.54`	`GeekTechnica`	`Two hikers walking through the woods stumble onto a very vicious looking bear.`
`01:53.09`	`GeekTechnica`	`<PROTECTED>`
`01:53.22`	`GeekTechnica`	`The second hiker looked at him and said, “You’re crazy -- you’ll never be able to outrun that bear!”`
`01:53.32`	`GeekTechnica`	`“I don’t have to,” the first hiker replied. “I only have to outrun you.”`
`01:53.48`	`DTRemenak`	`Carlson was charged with stealing a Mercedes Benz, and after a long trial, the jury aquitted him. Later that day Carlson came back to the judge who had presided at the hearing. "Your honor," he said, "I wanna get out a warrent for that dirty lawyer of mine."`
`01:53.56`	`DTRemenak`	`"Why ?" asked the judge. "He won your aquittal. What do you want to have him arrested for ?" "Well, your honor," replied Carlson, "I didn't have the money to pay his fee, so he went and took the car I stole."`
`01:54.57`	`menotume`	`<PROTECTED>`
`01:55.07`	`lan56`	`bums`
`01:55.07`	`menotume`	`Not enough sand.`
`01:55.23`	`menotume`	`SportChick: you sstill here ?`
`01:55.33`	`lan56`	`she fainted from laughing at my jokes`
`01:55.38`	`menotume`	`lol`
`01:55.46`	`DTRemenak`	`What's the difference between a dead lawyer in the road and a dead dog in the road?`
`01:55.54`	`lan56`	`nothing`
`01:55.56`	`DTRemenak`	`the dog has skid marks in front of him`
`01:55.56`	`menotume`	`hmmm`
`01:55.59`	`GeekTechnica`	`heheh`
`01:56.04`	`menotume`	`:)`
`01:56.13`	`lan56`	`<PROTECTED>`
`01:56.17`	`lan56`	`:)`
`01:56.42`	`menotume`	`<PROTECTED>`
`01:56.42`	`menotume`	`The bad guys threatened that, until all their demands were met, they would release one lawyer every hour.`
`01:57.08`	`GeekTechnica`	`What’s the skinniest book ever published?`
`01:57.17`	`GeekTechnica`	`Legal Ethics`
`01:57.23`	`menotume`	`hehe`
`01:57.28`	`DTRemenak`	`A housewife, an accountant and a lawyer were asked "How much is 2+2?"`
`01:57.33`	`lan56`	`whats the fatest book ever?`
`01:57.35`	`DTRemenak`	`The housewife replies: "Four!".`
`01:57.47`	`DTRemenak`	`The accountant says: "I think it's either 3 or 4. Let me run those figures through my spreadsheet one more time."`
`01:57.55`	`lan56`	`the listing of every error in Windows 2000`
`01:57.59`	`DTRemenak`	`The lawyer pulls the drapes, dims the lights and asks in a hushed voice, "How much do you want it to be?"`
`01:58.56`	`menotume`	`oooo, they're dropping like flies`
`01:59.20`	`menotume`	`lol`
`02:04.10`	`*** join/#bzflag Nikaji (~switched@ny-amherst-C4-2-bg1a-6-149.bflony.adelphia.net)`
`02:05.16`	`*** join/#bzflag Nikaji (~switched@ny-amherst-C4-2-bg1a-6-149.bflony.adelphia.net)`
`02:05.54`	`*** join/#bzflag alus (~alus@c-67-169-60-169.client.comcast.net)`
`02:05.57`	`alus`	`hi!`
`02:06.44`	`alus`	`any devs here? I have a few questions about the audio system that bzflag uses`
`02:11.04`	`SportChick`	`I'm here`
`02:11.20`	`SportChick`	`had a momentary distractin, but I'm laughing pretty hard now! thanks`
`02:12.43`	`SportChick`	`~DTRemenak++`
`02:12.50`	`SportChick`	`~menutome++`
`02:13.08`	`SportChick`	`~lan56++`
`02:13.14`	`SportChick`	`~menotume++`
`02:14.14`	`*** join/#bzflag mebigfatguy (MAC@balt-209-150-116-140.dynamic-dial.qis.net)`
`02:14.19`	`SportChick`	`hiya Mac`
`02:14.57`	`mebigfatguy`	`heya`
`02:16.18`	`SportChick`	`I'm afraid I ran the channel off onto a tangent for a bit, but it seems to have settled back down. Sorry to any one who got annoyed.`
`02:17.46`	`alus`	`heh`
`02:18.19`	`alus`	`ok so the questions are sort of vague, to begin with: can new sounds be swapped in place of the current event sounds?`
`02:18.52`	`alus`	`does bzflag support and from-disk streaming for long background ambience or music?`
`02:18.56`	`alus`	`s/and/any/`
`02:19.20`	`mebigfatguy`	`heh`
`02:19.32`	`mebigfatguy`	`a fine peon none the less :)`
`02:20.14`	`*** join/#bzflag PrezKennedy (~Matt@pcp035019pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)`
`02:20.20`	`SportChick`	`awwwww..thanks MAC!`
`02:20.31`	`blast007`	`alus: yes, sounds can be swapped, but I think they need to be of a certain quality in order to play at the right speed`
`02:20.46`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-226-170.dialup.innercite.com)`
`02:20.49`	`alus`	`format is no problem`
`02:20.53`	`mebigfatguy`	`22.5 perhaps?`
`02:20.55`	`mebigfatguy`	`i forget`
`02:21.03`	`blast007`	`think that might be it`
`02:21.07`	`alus`	`22050 is valid`
`02:21.26`	`*** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@adsl-64-167-77-158.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)`
`02:21.27`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ`
`02:22.01`	`blast007`	`16-bit too`
`02:22.04`	`alus`	`yup`
`02:22.19`	`alus`	`what about streaming; is it possible?`
`02:22.24`	`blast007`	`don't think so`
`02:22.34`	`alus`	`hm`
`02:22.38`	`SportChick`	`thanks for cheering me up, DT`
`02:22.53`	`alus`	`what sound api does bz use? some sort of crossplatform system, or hand-coded for each platform?`
`02:23.09`	`Patlabor221`	`each platform has there own`
`02:23.29`	`Patlabor221`	`windows uses direct sound and does it's won mixing, dopler, and stuff`
`02:24.55`	`alus`	`wow`
`02:25.23`	`Patlabor221`	`it's old`
`02:25.40`	`Patlabor221`	`don't recall what linux uses`
`02:28.08`	`Patlabor221`	`it even does it's own wav parsing`
`02:28.17`	`Patlabor221`	`tho there is code to hook up ogg`
`02:28.25`	`alus`	`that's crazy`
`02:28.44`	`Patlabor221`	`why?`
`02:28.55`	`Patlabor221`	`it's 13 year old code`
`02:28.57`	`Patlabor221`	`what do you expect?`
`02:29.01`	`alus`	`13!`
`02:29.03`	`mebigfatguy`	`heh`
`02:29.04`	`Patlabor221`	`sure`
`02:29.06`	`Patlabor221`	`posibly older`
`02:29.27`	`Patlabor221`	`well the windows part is probably only 10 or 11`
`02:30.15`	`Patlabor221`	`but it uses the same mixer,`
`02:30.15`	`Patlabor221`	`platform just sets up the buffer to dump the final mix too`
`02:30.54`	`Patlabor221`	`next you'll probably ask what 3d engine it uses :)`
`02:31.03`	`mebigfatguy`	`hehe`
`02:31.04`	`blast007`	`hehe`
`02:31.26`	`alus`	`nope, just curious about the sound`
`02:31.46`	`Patlabor221`	`it's basicly all hardcoded`
`02:37.29`	`mebigfatguy`	`unlike the font system`
`02:37.38`	`mebigfatguy`	`oh wait, micah never did that... sorry`
`02:37.41`	`Patlabor221`	`there is a "system"?`
`02:38.01`	`mebigfatguy`	`chaos is a system, no?`
`02:38.30`	`Patlabor221`	`more of a lack of a system`
`02:39.30`	`mebigfatguy`	`heh`
`02:39.31`	`Patlabor221`	`takes care of the scale and everything`
`02:39.35`	`Patlabor221`	`tho I'll never use it now`
`02:40.04`	`DTRemenak`	`hmmm...got it handy somewhere? how much work would it be to drop into bzflag?`
`02:40.17`	`Patlabor221`	`all the fonts would have to be redone`
`02:40.24`	`Patlabor221`	`let me see where it is`
`02:40.40`	`Patlabor221`	`and the font tool only runs on leeenox`
`02:40.46`	`Patlabor221`	`sorry weeendows`
`02:40.48`	`DTRemenak`	`there are only three of them anyway, and that would give us a chance to put in accented characters etc`
`02:40.59`	`DTRemenak`	`and if the tool is open-source, it can be ported`
`02:41.02`	`Patlabor221`	`it will support more then 256 characters`
`02:41.10`	`Patlabor221`	`I wrote the tool :)`
`02:41.14`	`DTRemenak`	`ah`
`02:41.15`	`mebigfatguy`	`utf8`
`02:41.15`	`Patlabor221`	`and porting it`
`02:41.18`	`Patlabor221`	`not so hot`
`02:41.21`	`Patlabor221`	`MFC`
`02:41.22`	`DTRemenak`	`ah`
`02:41.26`	`DTRemenak`	`eew`
`02:41.34`	`Patlabor221`	`it worked for what I needed`
`02:41.39`	`DTRemenak`	`ah well, call it a "reference implementation" then :)`
`02:42.26`	`Patlabor221`	`now it dosn't presently support multibyte strings as input, but the font system will load more then 256 characters`
`02:42.31`	`mebigfatguy`	`DTRemenak: heh`
`02:42.51`	`DTRemenak`	`Patlabor221: it's a start :)`
`02:42.55`	`mebigfatguy`	`TCHARS!!`
`02:43.02`	`Patlabor221`	`no const char*`
`02:43.23`	`Patlabor221`	`the client lib is not mfc at all`
`02:48.51`	`Patlabor221`	`http://sasami.bakadigital.com/public/source/fontManaager.zip`
`02:49.05`	`Patlabor221`	`that's the manager, OSFile, Textureman, and some of the fonts`
`02:49.09`	`Patlabor221`	`looking for the font tool now`
`02:50.06`	`DTRemenak`	`cool`
`02:50.30`	`Patlabor221`	`the tool basicly rendered out an image of the fonts, and dumped out a metrics file`
`02:50.35`	`Patlabor221`	`that had the spacing info`
`02:51.17`	`Patlabor221`	`I have NO clue what I named it tho`
`02:51.52`	`DTRemenak`	`haha`
`02:52.11`	`Patlabor221`	`I would think something with TEXT or FONT in the name`
`02:56.44`	`*** join/#bzflag BZFlag0462 (www-data@c-24-1-104-25.client.comcast.net)`
`02:59.58`	`Patlabor221`	`cool found it`
`03:00.24`	`DTRemenak`	`:)`
`03:00.28`	`Patlabor221`	`same URL TextTool.zip`
`03:00.34`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy (~Legoguy@c-24-13-129-67.client.comcast.net)`
`03:01.20`	`DTRemenak`	`fetching :)`
`03:01.34`	`Patlabor221`	`you can even provide it with multiple versions of the font`
`03:01.37`	`Patlabor221`	`at difrent size`
`03:01.45`	`Patlabor221`	`and it'll pick the best one it can for the size you want`
`03:01.55`	`Patlabor221`	`trying to only scale down if it can`
`03:02.01`	`Patlabor221`	`for quality`
`03:02.09`	`DTRemenak`	`ah, cool`
`03:02.30`	`Patlabor221`	`so you just give it a dir of fonts and it loads them all up`
`03:02.42`	`Patlabor221`	`then just ask for the font ID by name and then use that`
`03:02.53`	`Patlabor221`	`or enumerate the faces avalable`
`03:03.00`	`Patlabor221`	`your choice`
`03:03.40`	`DTRemenak`	`wow :)`
`03:03.43`	`Patlabor221`	`tool also allways makes the font texture 512 wide, and the smallest power of 2 that'll fit the image`
`03:03.51`	`mebigfatguy`	`std::string<WCHAR> here we come`
`03:04.30`	`Patlabor221`	`I did put like 2 days into it`
`03:04.35`	`Patlabor221`	`sad that's it's now obsolete`
`03:04.46`	`Patlabor221`	`as ogre reads TTF files direclty`
`03:05.09`	`DTRemenak`	`ah, but it will have some form of life if I can get it crammed into bzflag`
`03:05.20`	`Patlabor221`	`for a bit yes`
`03:05.23`	`DTRemenak`	`until firestarter is playable anyway :)`
`03:05.32`	`Patlabor221`	`define playable`
`03:05.59`	`DTRemenak`	`um...like you can drive around and shoot other players?`
`03:06.08`	`Patlabor221`	`don't have the shoting`
`03:06.12`	`Patlabor221`	`but have the driving`
`03:06.14`	`Patlabor221`	`and the other players`
`03:07.03`	`DTRemenak`	`really, other players work now?`
`03:07.07`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah`
`03:07.19`	`DTRemenak`	`cool, going faster than I thought`
`03:07.20`	`Patlabor221`	`client, server, and list server all work`
`03:07.29`	`*** join/#bzflag Grumbler (~Grumbler@grumbler.bronze.supporter.pdpc)`
`03:07.37`	`Patlabor221`	`it's being done multiplayer right from the start`
`03:07.42`	`Patlabor221`	`so that was the first thing to go in`
`03:07.54`	`Patlabor221`	`well after just drawing a textured plane`
`03:08.16`	`mebigfatguy`	`x + y = 7 ?`
`03:08.58`	`Patlabor221`	`if there are any classes missing they should be somewhere in http://sasami.bakadigital.com/public/source/`
`03:09.13`	`Patlabor221`	`probably in caster, hallways, or bzflagXL`
`03:09.20`	`DTRemenak`	`heh, ok`
`03:09.37`	`Patlabor221`	`or screamers`
`03:09.48`	`Patlabor221`	`I dono, there is a bunch of stuff in there`
`03:10.11`	`Patlabor221`	`wow, including a UT model viewer`
`03:10.14`	`Patlabor221`	`forgot bout that one`
`03:11.16`	`DTRemenak`	`hm, there is some overlap between these and some of bzflag's other systems...will be a bit of work to get tucked in.`
`03:11.26`	`Grumbler`	`trying to import Goliath, eh`
`03:11.32`	`mebigfatguy`	`that surprise you?`
`03:11.38`	`Patlabor221`	`well it should go right into texture manager`
`03:11.51`	`Patlabor221`	`as the one in BZ is based on the one I used for the font stuff`
`03:11.52`	`DTRemenak`	`mebigfatguy: not really`
`03:12.00`	`DTRemenak`	`cool`
`03:12.00`	`Patlabor221`	`OSFile may be in there allready`
`03:12.02`	`Patlabor221`	`if not`
`03:12.04`	`Patlabor221`	`it should go fine`
`03:12.12`	`Patlabor221`	`it's self contained`
`03:12.15`	`mebigfatguy`	`its there`
`03:12.17`	`Patlabor221`	`k`
`03:12.19`	`DTRemenak`	`it is, iirc`
`03:12.26`	`Patlabor221`	`that shoudl be all it REALLY needs`
`03:13.00`	`Patlabor221`	`fontmanager shoudl scan a dir, and then just try and load texture by name`
`03:13.03`	`Patlabor221`	`same as we do now`
`03:13.52`	`Patlabor221`	`ohh and you'll have to make structures for the point and color stuff`
`03:14.04`	`Patlabor221`	`or see if they are not allrady in the 3d project`
`03:14.12`	`Patlabor221`	`or just don't do those versions`
`03:14.13`	`DTRemenak`	`I think a lot of that is in 3d`
`03:14.23`	`Patlabor221`	`I don't remember all the things I moved over`
`03:14.51`	`Patlabor221`	`it will use display lists tho`
`03:15.10`	`Patlabor221`	`current stuff will too, but if they arn't supported it'll do other stuff`
`03:15.22`	`Patlabor221`	`also, this is a TEXTURE ONLY method`
`03:15.35`	`Patlabor221`	`won't do geo fonts`
`03:15.44`	`Patlabor221`	`dono if the softies will like that`
`03:15.54`	`Patlabor221`	`it shouldn't effect them really`
`03:15.57`	`Patlabor221`	`just use more ram`
`03:16.03`	`DTRemenak`	`not a big deal I wouldn't think`
`03:16.10`	`Patlabor221`	`well it's difrent`
`03:16.17`	`DTRemenak`	`and there's other stuff broken right now that's killing them anyway`
`03:16.19`	`Patlabor221`	`if a card truly did not support textures`
`03:16.22`	`Patlabor221`	`then it would geek`
`03:16.29`	`Patlabor221`	`but screwem`
`03:16.44`	`Patlabor221`	`tell em to spend 25$`
`03:17.39`	`Patlabor221`	`my bad, 21$ with shipping`
`03:19.04`	`*** join/#bzflag elmer_fudd (~elmer_fud@67-50-194-24.nrp4feld.roc.ny.frontiernet.net)`
`03:19.15`	`scanline`	`Patlabor221: texture fonts are probably a lot more efficient in software or in hardware`
`03:19.24`	`Patlabor221`	`I would think so`
`03:19.27`	`Patlabor221`	`just use more ram`
`03:19.33`	`Patlabor221`	`then geo fonts`
`03:19.37`	`Patlabor221`	`but faster draw`
`03:19.43`	`scanline`	`yeah, and better looking`
`03:19.44`	`Patlabor221`	`ram is cheap`
`03:19.46`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah`
`03:20.08`	`Patlabor221`	`well, if you ask for a BIIG font it'll have to interpolate up if you don't have one that big`
`03:20.13`	`Patlabor221`	`and that can look like crap`
`03:20.26`	`Patlabor221`	`like if all you do is 8 16 and 32 pix, and ask for 72`
`03:21.03`	`scanline`	`but unless you have super-mad-antialiasing on your card, vector fonts will always look awful :)`
`03:21.16`	`Patlabor221`	`DTRemenak: the bigest change from BZ you'll have to deal with is how sizes are specified`
`03:21.22`	`Patlabor221`	`this one does it in pixels`
`03:21.27`	`DTRemenak`	`mm`
`03:21.33`	`Patlabor221`	`bz does some whackass scale thing`
`03:22.10`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy (~Legoguy@c-24-13-129-67.client.comcast.net)`
`03:22.15`	`DTRemenak`	`scale thing is better for menus etc, so the right px-size can be chosen based on desired size & screen res`
`03:22.30`	`Patlabor221`	`well if you compute the font size at runtime that's fine`
`03:22.32`	`Patlabor221`	`based on res`
`03:22.35`	`DTRemenak`	`ya`
`03:22.37`	`Patlabor221`	`then it'll pick from the best input fonts`
`03:22.44`	`Patlabor221`	`and still look better then what we have now`
`03:23.11`	`scanline`	`Patlabor221: I've done a lot with texture fonts.. what's really nice is if you specify font sizes in pixels, and generate separate texture maps for all your most commonly used sizes so you can display them 1:1 scale and get proper hinting`
`03:23.12`	`Patlabor221`	`tho more input fonts means bigger install size`
`03:23.28`	`Patlabor221`	`scan this dosn't generate the fonts at runtime`
`03:23.30`	`scanline`	`Patlabor221: just generate your font textures at runtime as needed using ft2`
`03:23.32`	`scanline`	`bah`
`03:23.42`	`Patlabor221`	`it was made as a dropin`
`03:23.44`	`scanline`	`how do you expect to support Japanese if you don't generate them dynamically?`
`03:23.45`	`Patlabor221`	`I use ogre now`
`03:23.50`	`Patlabor221`	`I don't`
`03:23.54`	`scanline`	`bah`
`03:24.05`	`Patlabor221`	`it does support more then 256 characters tho`
`03:24.13`	`Patlabor221`	`hey, I don't see you hooking anything up :)`
`03:24.18`	`mebigfatguy`	`:)`
`03:24.19`	`scanline`	`pybzengine's font code is so cool, use it ;)`
`03:24.26`	`Patlabor221`	`ogre does it all right from the TTF`
`03:24.32`	`Patlabor221`	`so I no longer care`
`03:24.52`	`scanline`	`I wouldn't be surprised if internally it did some texture caching like pybzengine did`
`03:24.55`	`scanline`	`er, does`
`03:24.55`	`Patlabor221`	`this lib may just be a simple way to get something a little better`
`03:25.12`	`Patlabor221`	`the cool think about ogre... I DON"T CARE :)`
`03:25.17`	`scanline`	`yep`
`03:25.34`	`Patlabor221`	`now if I could get it to load skins proper`
`03:26.34`	`Patlabor221`	`back to HTML parsing`
`03:28.13`	`mebigfatguy`	`follow the dream`
`03:28.27`	`Patlabor221`	`I'd love to, she was cute in that dream`
`03:28.46`	`*** join/#bzflag BZFlag0960 (www-data@c-24-1-104-25.client.comcast.net)`
`03:44.57`	`ForthFreak`	`anyone tried, or running the -view three option ? can it be used with XFree xinerama, configured for 3 or 4 screens ?`
`03:46.31`	`ForthFreak`	`(assuming there's a way to get OpenGL running on all screens)`
`03:47.22`	`alus`	`GL can do that`
`03:47.26`	`alus`	`you know, itself`
`03:49.03`	`ForthFreak`	`right now my "front screen" is a video projector, and the opposite wall`
`03:49.29`	`ForthFreak`	`might try to borrow me another two :)`
`03:56.58`	`ForthFreak`	`does it make sense that servers, which are configured for "no flags", still show "time until bad flags are dropped" ?`
`04:07.19`	`*** join/#bzflag lan56 (lan56@dialup-4.233.44.59.Dial1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net)`
`04:38.10`	`*** join/#bzflag LilDog (lildog@c-24-17-232-223.client.comcast.net)`
`04:38.17`	`LilDog`	`hey`
`04:58.54`	`Patlabor221`	`sup lilG`
`04:59.09`	`Patlabor221`	`why'd ya bail last night?`
`04:59.27`	`blast007`	`think he's playing BZFlag right now`
`04:59.38`	`Patlabor221`	`well good for him`
`05:01.51`	`*** join/#bzflag GeekTechnica (~Sinn@cpe-024-165-214-094.midsouth.rr.com)`
`05:03.03`	`LilDog`	`what you mean bail?`
`05:03.12`	`Patlabor221`	`you left`
`05:03.18`	`Patlabor221`	`guu dict bail`
`05:03.19`	`guu`	`Patlabor221: web1913 and wn responded: web1913: Bail \Bail\, n. [F. baille a bucket, pail; cf. LL. bacula, dim. of bacca a sort of vessel. Cf. {Bac}.] A bucket or scoop used in bailing water out of a boat. [Obs.] The bail of a canoe . . . made of a human skull. --Capt. Cook; web1913: Bail \Bail\, n. [OE. beyl; cf. Dan. b["o]ile an bending, ring, hoop, Sw. b["o]gel, bygel, (10 more messages)`
`05:03.27`	`Patlabor221`	`eww`
`05:03.30`	`Patlabor221`	`human sckull`
`05:03.33`	`Patlabor221`	`guu more`
`05:03.33`	`guu`	`Patlabor221: and Icel. beyla hump, swelling, akin to E. bow to bend.] 1. The arched handle of a kettle, pail, or similar vessel, usually movable. --Forby. 2. A half hoop for supporting the cover of a carrier's wagon, awning of a boat, etc; web1913: Bail \Bail\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. {Bailed} (?); p. pr. & vb. n. {Bailing}.] 1. To lade; to dip and throw; -- usually with out; as, to (9 more messages)`
`05:03.39`	`Patlabor221`	`guu more`
`05:03.39`	`guu`	`Patlabor221: bail water out of a boat. Buckets . . . to bail out the water. --Capt. J. Smith. 2. To dip or lade water from; -- often with out to express completeness; as, to bail a boat. By the help of a small bucket and our hats we bailed her out. --R. H. Dana, Jr; web1913: Bail \Bail\, n. [OF. bail, baille. See {Bailey}.] 1. (Usually pl.) A line of palisades serving as an (8 more messages)`
`05:03.48`	`Patlabor221`	`ok so it's slang :)`
`05:04.01`	`Patlabor221`	`as in "bail out"`
`05:04.46`	`LilDog`	`i left here cuz i was tired of being ridiculed`
`05:04.55`	`Patlabor221`	`no you weren't`
`05:05.00`	`LilDog`	`gtg`
`05:05.02`	`LilDog`	`bed time`
`05:05.06`	`Patlabor221`	`you were asked to stop posting smileys`
`05:05.08`	`Patlabor221`	`that's it`
`05:05.09`	`Patlabor221`	`have fun man`
`05:05.11`	`LilDog`	`night night`
`05:05.16`	`blast007`	`cya`
`05:05.20`	`GeekTechnica`	`cya ld`
`05:05.30`	`LilDog`	`Patlabor221 "sweet dreams" :)`
`05:05.40`	`Patlabor221`	`only if she is in em`
`05:05.46`	`LilDog`	`she?`
`05:05.50`	`LilDog`	`whos she?`
`05:05.58`	`Patlabor221`	`a woman`
`05:06.01`	`LilDog`	`oh`
`05:06.04`	`LilDog`	`:)`
`05:06.04`	`Patlabor221`	`they smell NICE :)`
`05:06.05`	`LilDog`	`bye`
`05:06.15`	`GeekTechnica`	`and they are soft :)`
`05:06.25`	`Patlabor221`	`not allways`
`05:06.33`	`LilDog`	`and they are purrty atr time`
`05:06.34`	`LilDog`	`ns`
`05:06.37`	`GeekTechnica`	`the good ones are`
`05:06.59`	`Patlabor221`	`depeneds on your definition of "good"\`
`05:07.06`	`GeekTechnica`	`true`
`05:13.08`	`*** join/#bzflag lan56 (lan56@dialup-4.233.44.59.Dial1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net)`
`05:16.31`	`*** join/#bzflag ForthFreak (~cryptobot@ppp-62-245-208-207.mnet-online.de)`
`05:22.02`	`*** join/#bzflag Nikaji_ (~switched@ny-amherst-C4-2-bg1a-6-149.bflony.adelphia.net)`
`05:33.14`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy (~Legoguy@c-24-13-129-67.client.comcast.net)`
`05:44.55`	`*** join/#bzflag Punk (~chris@pop11-port79.jetstart.maxnet.co.nz)`
`05:45.14`	`Punk`	`hey all`
`05:45.20`	`lan56`	`hi punk`
`05:45.22`	`GeekTechnica`	`hello`
`05:45.36`	`lan56`	`what's cookin, good lookin'? :)`
`05:45.40`	`Punk`	`can anyone help me with configuring cvs bzedit?`
`05:45.47`	`lan56`	`sure`
`05:45.56`	`Punk`	`i got it`
`05:46.02`	`lan56`	`I know you have bzedit`
`05:46.06`	`lan56`	`whats your question?`
`05:46.15`	`Patlabor221`	`what one?`
`05:46.29`	`Punk`	`latest, got it just now`
`05:46.38`	`Punk`	`"bzedit"`
`05:46.39`	`Patlabor221`	`no, windows or linux?`
`05:46.43`	`Patlabor221`	`then linux`
`05:46.43`	`Punk`	`linux`
`05:46.50`	`Patlabor221`	`you have gtkglarea?`
`05:47.11`	`Punk`	`yes`
`05:47.16`	`Patlabor221`	`cool`
`05:47.24`	`Punk`	`whats "Received CTCP 'VERSION' (to Punk) from lan56"?`
`05:47.33`	`Patlabor221`	`he pinged your version`
`05:47.36`	`Patlabor221`	`of IRC`
`05:47.39`	`Punk`	`oh`
`05:47.41`	`lan56`	`thats just a way of IRC sayin hello!`
`05:47.51`	`Punk`	`cool`
`05:47.52`	`Patlabor221`	`no lan56, saying hello is "hello"`
`05:47.54`	`Patlabor221`	`:)`
`05:47.59`	`lan56`	`not in Irc language`
`05:48.04`	`Punk`	`:) quite right :-P`
`05:48.05`	`Patlabor221`	`punk it "should" just go`
`05:48.16`	`Patlabor221`	`lan56: CTCP is not part of the IRC standard, so no. it's not`
`05:48.21`	`Punk`	`i typed "cd bzedit"`
`05:48.22`	`Patlabor221`	`hence why it's CTCP`
`05:48.25`	`Punk`	`it did it`
`05:48.32`	`Patlabor221`	`do a configure then a make`
`05:48.34`	`lan56`	`ok, CTCP region of IRC speakers`
`05:49.31`	`Punk`	`i had a look at the INSTALL and it said to do that, but there is no configure in the dir`
`05:49.48`	`Punk`	`is it another dir?`
`05:50.31`	`Patlabor221`	`few have ever goten it to build so it's been a while`
`05:50.35`	`Patlabor221`	`leme look real fast`
`05:50.47`	`lan56`	`is bzedit even active anymore?`
`05:50.52`	`Patlabor221`	`not that one`
`05:50.52`	`Punk`	`oh`
`05:51.02`	`lan56`	`well, there is only one bzedit`
`05:51.09`	`Punk`	`just found the configure script`
`05:51.12`	`Punk`	`ill run it`
`05:51.12`	`Patlabor221`	`no there are 3`
`05:51.16`	`lan56`	`3?`
`05:51.18`	`Patlabor221`	`yes`
`05:51.18`	`Punk`	`it was in the data dir`
`05:51.28`	`lan56`	`3 programs with the same name?`
`05:51.34`	`Patlabor221`	`bzedit for linux, bzedit for windows, and the somewhat started "new bzedit"`
`05:51.37`	`lan56`	`I swear, this GNU licensing is geting out of hand`
`05:51.50`	`Patlabor221`	`they have difrent project names`
`05:51.57`	`Patlabor221`	`what does gnu have to do withit?`
`05:51.58`	`Punk`	`loading cache ./config.cache`
`05:51.59`	`Punk`	`checking for a BSD compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c`
`05:51.59`	`Punk`	`checking whether build environment is sane... configure: error: ls -t appears to fail. Make sure there is not a broken`
`05:51.59`	`Punk`	`alias in your environment`
`05:51.59`	`Punk`	`configure: error: newly created file is older than distributed files!`
`05:52.00`	`Punk`	`Check your system clock`
`05:52.06`	`Punk`	`thats what it said`
`05:52.16`	`lan56`	`well, if something is copyright, you can't create something with the same name`
`05:52.26`	`Patlabor221`	`sure you can`
`05:52.31`	`Patlabor221`	`but they have difrent exe names`
`05:52.42`	`Patlabor221`	`bzedit, bzeditW32 and bzedit2`
`05:52.47`	`lan56`	`but same project names is copyright infringment`
`05:52.50`	`lan56`	`in general`
`05:52.59`	`Patlabor221`	`lan56: what are you talking about?`
`05:53.05`	`lan56`	`I honestly don't know.`
`05:53.06`	`Punk`	`is anyone helping me or not :-/`
`05:53.14`	`Patlabor221`	`I can tell dude, your just making up stuff`
`05:53.19`	`Patlabor221`	`punk calm down`
`05:53.24`	`Punk`	`:)`
`05:53.26`	`Punk`	`ok`
`05:53.26`	`Patlabor221`	`looks like it dosnt' like your config`
`05:53.32`	`Patlabor221`	`your clock set right?`
`05:53.38`	`Patlabor221`	`and the time on the files cool?`
`05:53.40`	`Punk`	`think so`
`05:53.49`	`Patlabor221`	`you can't think, you must know`
`05:53.57`	`Punk`	`18:00`
`05:54.04`	`Punk`	`im in nz`
`05:54.14`	`Punk`	`im quite sure`
`05:54.17`	`Patlabor221`	`are the files you got newer?`
`05:54.28`	`Punk`	`just downloaded :)`
`05:54.33`	`Patlabor221`	`check the date`
`05:54.39`	`Punk`	`where?`
`05:54.45`	`Patlabor221`	`how ever your OS shows it`
`05:54.49`	`Punk`	`on system clock?`
`05:54.53`	`Patlabor221`	`no on the file`
`05:54.56`	`Patlabor221`	`mod date`
`05:55.08`	`Punk`	`ummmm, im only 11 :)`
`05:55.10`	`Patlabor221`	`or the config script may be made for a much older verison of configure`
`05:55.18`	`Patlabor221`	`age is no excuse`
`05:55.26`	`Patlabor221`	`if your building apps you gotta know how your computer works`
`05:55.27`	`Punk`	`dont know how....`
`05:55.36`	`Patlabor221`	`what WindowManager you use?`
`05:55.43`	`Punk`	`kde`
`05:55.49`	`Punk`	`and gnome...`
`05:55.59`	`Patlabor221`	`what distro you using?`
`05:56.05`	`Punk`	`fedora core 1`
`05:56.18`	`Patlabor221`	`you sure you have gtkglarea then? it's older and depriciated`
`05:56.24`	`Punk`	`yup`
`05:56.24`	`Patlabor221`	`may not be included in current distros`
`05:56.46`	`Patlabor221`	`generaly in the redhats you right click on the file and view it's properties`
`05:56.49`	`Punk`	`1.2.2`
`05:56.58`	`Patlabor221`	`and check the date`
`05:57.22`	`Punk`	`dosn't show it`
`05:57.33`	`Patlabor221`	`then your gonna have to find out how`
`05:57.47`	`Punk`	`wait no`
`05:57.49`	`Punk`	`tfound it`
`05:57.51`	`Punk`	`Jan 7 2000`
`05:57.58`	`Patlabor221`	`odd then`
`05:58.08`	`Patlabor221`	`sounds like the config isn't set to work with the newer stuff`
`05:58.28`	`Patlabor221`	`I'd send a mail to the dev mailing list on SF asking for help, then the guy who wrote that can answer`
`05:58.30`	`Patlabor221`	`he's not here now`
`05:58.30`	`Punk`	`is that the newer version?`
`05:58.33`	`Patlabor221`	`nope`
`05:58.35`	`Patlabor221`	`not for linux`
`05:58.46`	`Patlabor221`	`it was basicly abandoned a couple years ago`
`05:58.57`	`Punk`	`so, i need a newer version?`
`05:59.05`	`Patlabor221`	`there IS no newer version`
`05:59.05`	`Punk`	`or older :\|`
`05:59.13`	`Punk`	`oh lol`
`05:59.26`	`Patlabor221`	`no, you need to get the author to help you figure out how to build it`
`05:59.31`	`Patlabor221`	`if it's even posible`
`05:59.35`	`Patlabor221`	`the software is dead`
`05:59.38`	`Patlabor221`	`no longer worked on`
`05:59.45`	`Patlabor221`	`gone the way of the dodod`
`05:59.47`	`Punk`	`ok....`
`06:00.10`	`Patlabor221`	`so since he is not here, best way is to post to the dev list on SF`
`06:00.14`	`Patlabor221`	`and ask for help there`
`06:00.32`	`Punk`	`ummmm, ok`
`06:00.33`	`Patlabor221`	`honestly many have tried, 99.9% have failed`
`06:00.43`	`Patlabor221`	`it's just not happy with current systems`
`06:00.47`	`Punk`	`loading cache ./config.cache`
`06:00.47`	`Punk`	`checking for a BSD compatible install... /usr/bin/install -c`
`06:00.47`	`Punk`	`checking whether build environment is sane... configure: error: ls -t appears to fail. Make sure there is not a broken`
`06:00.47`	`Punk`	`alias in your environment`
`06:00.47`	`Punk`	`configure: error: newly created file is older than distributed files!`
`06:00.48`	`Punk`	`Check your system clock`
`06:00.57`	`Patlabor221`	`pasting the same error will not fix it`
`06:00.58`	`Punk`	`<---- u seen anyone get that error?`
`06:01.03`	`Patlabor221`	`I don't recall`
`06:01.12`	`Patlabor221`	`it's been a long time since anyone has even tried`
`06:01.28`	`Patlabor221`	`since it uses a depriciated GL lib, it's kinda hard to even try`
`06:01.40`	`Punk`	`might as well wait for a official release then....`
`06:01.48`	`Patlabor221`	`a what?`
`06:01.50`	`lan56`	`like that ever happens`
`06:02.07`	`Patlabor221`	`noone is activly working on a linux bzedit`
`06:02.17`	`Patlabor221`	`the only work is on the windows one`
`06:02.23`	`Punk`	`what!!! ohhhhh man`
`06:02.29`	`Patlabor221`	`one guy started a new linux one, but got busy`
`06:02.35`	`Patlabor221`	`so it has no real timeframe`
`06:03.05`	`Punk`	`ill have to stick with a text editor`
`06:03.07`	`Patlabor221`	`why do you think the files have dates of 2000`
`06:03.16`	`Patlabor221`	`the windows version may run under wine`
`06:03.16`	`Punk`	`used ls`
`06:03.23`	`Punk`	`it shows u`
`06:03.30`	`Punk`	`ive tried`
`06:03.31`	`Patlabor221`	`I know how you did it`
`06:03.35`	`Patlabor221`	`that is not what I said`
`06:03.39`	`Punk`	`didnt work`
`06:03.45`	`Patlabor221`	`the files are old cus the project is old`
`06:03.56`	`Patlabor221`	`you could bust out a windows install :)`
`06:03.56`	`Punk`	`???`
`06:04.03`	`Punk`	`???`
`06:04.10`	`lan56`	`???`
`06:04.12`	`Patlabor221`	`some of the files haven't been updated in 4 years`
`06:04.20`	`Patlabor221`	`cus noone works on that`
`06:04.25`	`Patlabor221`	`dead end project`
`06:04.27`	`Punk`	`yeah... i can see`
`06:04.34`	`Patlabor221`	`it's just there for archive`
`06:04.38`	`GeekTechnica`	`it's bleedin' demised`
`06:04.42`	`GeekTechnica`	`it is no more`
`06:04.54`	`Patlabor221`	`just write one up, it's a simple format`
`06:05.06`	`Patlabor221`	`only took me a day to get the basic editor made`
`06:05.20`	`Punk`	`i heard purple_cow is working on somthing?`
`06:05.45`	`lan56`	`its an easy syntax, but predicting the positions (x, y, z) and making an ideal outcome is tough`
`06:05.49`	`Patlabor221`	`he is the person who started it`
`06:05.54`	`Patlabor221`	`he started a new one`
`06:06.00`	`Punk`	`bzedit?`
`06:06.00`	`Patlabor221`	`but having 3 jobs kinda sucks up time`
`06:06.02`	`Patlabor221`	`yes`
`06:06.06`	`Punk`	`oh`
`06:06.08`	`Patlabor221`	`so he is not active on it`
`06:06.13`	`Punk`	`is he still working on it?`
`06:06.15`	`Punk`	`oh`
`06:06.18`	`Punk`	`hehe`
`06:06.22`	`lan56`	`:)`
`06:06.57`	`Patlabor221`	`I have seen him do little things once every 2-3 months`
`06:07.01`	`Patlabor221`	`when he feels the mood`
`06:07.12`	`Punk`	`im working on a map at the moment but sooooo hard with a text editor`
`06:07.14`	`Patlabor221`	`but nothing of a speed that would get you an editor any time soon.`
`06:07.20`	`Patlabor221`	`install windows then :)`
`06:07.32`	`Punk`	`naaaaa, i hate it`
`06:07.35`	`lan56`	`at least Windows is well debuged`
`06:07.42`	`Patlabor221`	`huh?`
`06:07.44`	`*** join/#bzflag \|tim\| (~\|tim\|@ip68-106-184-191.sb.sd.cox.net)`
`06:07.50`	`lan56`	`I haven't had errors except when I made the programs I am running`
`06:07.52`	`Punk`	`dad is not even gonna consider it....`
`06:08.02`	`Patlabor221`	`then you know your options punk`
`06:08.13`	`Punk`	`we had one but it blew up a month ago`
`06:08.19`	`Patlabor221`	`lan56: it's as buggy as all other OSs`
`06:08.31`	`Punk`	`not linux :)`
`06:08.36`	`lan56`	`at least, on my computer, when a fatal error happens, it restarts without warning, just as fast as lightning it is starting back up`
`06:08.37`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah about the same`
`06:08.40`	`Patlabor221`	`linux has bugs too`
`06:08.46`	`Patlabor221`	`just windows bugs get more airtime`
`06:08.48`	`Patlabor221`	`cus more units`
`06:08.56`	`lan56`	`if something hdidn't have bugs, it wouldn't be human`
`06:08.56`	`Patlabor221`	`and linux bugs can get fixes faster`
`06:09.04`	`Punk`	`yeah, but u can do whatever u like on it`
`06:09.17`	`Patlabor221`	`I see about as many redhat enterprise hotfixes as I do .net server 2k3 fixes`
`06:09.22`	`Patlabor221`	`so can you with windows`
`06:09.32`	`Patlabor221`	`they each have advanatages and disavanates`
`06:09.35`	`Patlabor221`	`as they are just tools`
`06:09.35`	`lan56`	`I like Mac better than Windows`
`06:09.45`	`Punk`	`change the source code <---- no`
`06:09.55`	`Patlabor221`	`punk depends on what for`
`06:10.11`	`Punk`	`i dont know what mac looks like....`
`06:10.12`	`Patlabor221`	`I can create a great number of instalable modules for windows`
`06:10.17`	`lan56`	`Macintosh seems more friendly, like "mac" == ":-)" & "windows" == ":-\|"`
`06:10.35`	`Patlabor221`	`the current macOS is basicly a unix derivitive`
`06:10.36`	`lan56`	`and linux is, well, you can't see linux's face`
`06:10.38`	`Punk`	`i gotta have a look at mac some time`
`06:10.42`	`Patlabor221`	`with an inconsisten shell on it`
`06:10.49`	`Patlabor221`	`punk, you need apple hardware for it`
`06:10.59`	`Patlabor221`	`it's not something you can put on x86 hardware`
`06:11.07`	`Punk`	`ok`
`06:11.07`	`lan56`	`Mac is like GNU/Linux with a GUI`
`06:11.15`	`Patlabor221`	`not really`
`06:11.22`	`Patlabor221`	`it's more BSD like I understand`
`06:11.22`	`lan56`	`ok maybe not`
`06:11.30`	`lan56`	`no Linux`
`06:11.38`	`lan56`	`or UNIX`
`06:11.39`	`lan56`	`but not BSD`
`06:11.44`	`Patlabor221`	`both are unix derivives`
`06:11.50`	`lan56`	`no, more UNIX than Linux`
`06:11.51`	`lan56`	`I know that`
`06:11.53`	`GeekTechnica`	`thats what I was about to say Patlabor221, OS X is currently based off a highly modified BSD`
`06:11.54`	`Patlabor221`	`what?`
`06:11.58`	`Punk`	`i like fedora core`
`06:12.09`	`Punk`	`:)`
`06:12.10`	`Patlabor221`	`lan56: dude why do you say stuff you have no clue on`
`06:12.11`	`lan56`	`but there are differences`
`06:12.22`	`lan56`	`I have clues on things!`
`06:12.24`	`Patlabor221`	`sure there are difs in the various BSD cores`
`06:12.28`	`lan56`	`nothing I hate more than people who judge me`
`06:12.32`	`Patlabor221`	`but it has many BSD like core services`
`06:12.42`	`Patlabor221`	`unlike linux`
`06:12.54`	`Patlabor221`	`I prefer debian to the redhats`
`06:13.02`	`Punk`	`~stats`
`06:13.03`	`ibot`	`Since Tue Jun 8 18:35:41 2004, there have been 47 modifications, 330 questions, 115 dunnos, 4 morons and 294 commands. I have been awake for 3d 11h 37m 21s this session, and currently reference 107190 factoids. I'm using about 17512 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 4053.79/406.47 child 676.46/79.56`
`06:13.04`	`Patlabor221`	`tho I have not tried fedora`
`06:13.11`	`lan56`	`I still say that I believe that Apple has a core more like that of UNIX and thats what I think`
`06:13.22`	`Punk`	`Patlabor221: its quite nice`
`06:13.33`	`Patlabor221`	`yes it is a unix derivive, along the lines of BSD`
`06:13.48`	`Patlabor221`	`hell NT started as a unix type core`
`06:13.51`	`*** join/#bzflag fiberchunks (~frobozz@66.159.144.175.adsl.snet.net)`
`06:13.56`	`Patlabor221`	`then got REALLLY modified`
`06:14.03`	`lan56`	`I still remember using a Performa`
`06:14.12`	`lan56`	`I had Mac OS 6 on it`
`06:14.17`	`Punk`	`Performa?`
`06:14.19`	`Patlabor221`	`OS 7,8, and ( should have died`
`06:14.21`	`lan56`	`back then, heh, it wasn't called Mac OS`
`06:14.24`	`Patlabor221`	`performas came with 7`
`06:14.27`	`Patlabor221`	`I had the first one`
`06:14.29`	`Punk`	`oh`
`06:14.31`	`lan56`	`it was called "System 7"`
`06:14.36`	`Punk`	`lol`
`06:14.39`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah OS7`
`06:14.41`	`Patlabor221`	`not 6`
`06:14.50`	`Patlabor221`	`6 was pre multi-finder`
`06:14.59`	`lan56`	`multi finder?`
`06:15.02`	`lan56`	`I remember one finder`
`06:15.09`	`Patlabor221`	`but it ran multiple apps`
`06:15.20`	`Patlabor221`	`the default install of system 6 allowed 1 app at a time`
`06:15.22`	`lan56`	`every OS can multitask`
`06:15.28`	`Patlabor221`	`don't be so sure`
`06:15.40`	`lan56`	`at least in this age`
`06:15.41`	`Patlabor221`	`the old systems were coop, not premptive`
`06:15.49`	`Patlabor221`	`system 6 is not of this age :)`
`06:15.56`	`lan56`	`I never said it was`
`06:16.03`	`Patlabor221`	`that was one of the big changes with OSX, proper multi-tasking`
`06:16.09`	`Patlabor221`	`proper threading`
`06:16.12`	`Patlabor221`	`what performa?`
`06:16.17`	`Patlabor221`	`what nubmer?`
`06:16.24`	`lan56`	`let me check`
`06:18.29`	`Patlabor221`	`or what did it look like?`
`06:18.35`	`Patlabor221`	`was the screen built into it?`
`06:18.53`	`lan56`	`dang cant find the case`
`06:18.58`	`lan56`	`it was a 68k, CD`
`06:19.02`	`lan56`	`separate screen`
`06:19.08`	`Patlabor221`	`how thick?`
`06:19.14`	`Patlabor221`	`about 2 inches or about 6 inches?`
`06:19.25`	`lan56`	`the screen? or the CPU`
`06:19.31`	`Patlabor221`	`the computer part`
`06:19.37`	`lan56`	`about 6 inches`
`06:19.38`	`Patlabor221`	`the CPU I guess you could call it`
`06:19.48`	`Patlabor221`	`performa 600?`
`06:19.49`	`lan56`	`floppy and CD were on the same "level"`
`06:19.53`	`Patlabor221`	`oh`
`06:19.54`	`Patlabor221`	`hmmm`
`06:19.57`	`lan56`	`yeah, 600 series CD`
`06:20.06`	`Patlabor221`	`then the CD would have been below it`
`06:20.13`	`lan56`	`dang I still have it`
`06:20.16`	`Patlabor221`	`http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_performa/stats/mac_performa_600.html`
`06:20.40`	`Patlabor221`	`probably one of these`
`06:20.40`	`Patlabor221`	`http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/mac_performa/stats/mac_performa_631cd.html`
`06:20.46`	`lan56`	`no I am getting mad, I will find it, hold on. I get so angry when I can't find something`
`06:20.48`	`lan56`	`brb`
`06:21.07`	`Patlabor221`	`the ones with them on the same level were the older models`
`06:21.24`	`Patlabor221`	`well not THAT older`
`06:21.26`	`lan56`	`bingo! found the case!`
`06:21.34`	`Patlabor221`	`but 2-3 years after the first ones`
`06:21.44`	`Patlabor221`	`it a 63x?`
`06:21.56`	`lan56`	`I have a CD that shipped with it, says Performa 637CD`
`06:22.11`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah that was a nice 040 machine :)`
`06:22.18`	`Patlabor221`	`way better then my 030`
`06:22.19`	`lan56`	`sure was`
`06:22.23`	`lan56`	`had 33 MHZ`
`06:22.27`	`lan56`	`*MHz`
`06:22.29`	`lan56`	`8 mb`
`06:22.34`	`Patlabor221`	`came with system 7.1.2p`
`06:22.37`	`lan56`	`very slow compared to today`
`06:23.00`	`Patlabor221`	`that came out 2 years after mine :)`
`06:23.08`	`lan56`	`I remeber getting OS 8`
`06:23.13`	`lan56`	`I was so excited`
`06:23.15`	`Patlabor221`	`yeah it woudl take up to 8`
`06:23.21`	`Patlabor221`	`ohh tho that was an LC 040`
`06:23.26`	`Patlabor221`	`no FPU`
`06:23.33`	`lan56`	`no, no FPU`
`06:23.46`	`Patlabor221`	`I had to put an external FPU on mine`
`06:24.00`	`lan56`	`did you really need it?`
`06:24.01`	`lan56`	`I never did`
`06:24.06`	`Patlabor221`	`ohh yeah`
`06:24.14`	`Patlabor221`	`stratavision`
`06:24.26`	`Patlabor221`	`that quadra 630 case was not a bad design`
`06:24.31`	`lan56`	`I can still remember EWorld`
`06:24.35`	`Patlabor221`	`heh`
`06:24.39`	`lan56`	`no, not at all`
`06:24.45`	`lan56`	`and AOL 2`
`06:25.01`	`Patlabor221`	`that was one of the first macs to take IDE`
`06:25.15`	`lan56`	`integrated development environment?`
`06:25.22`	`Patlabor221`	`no IDE hard drives`
`06:25.23`	`SportChick`	`~seen GeekTechnica`
`06:25.24`	`ibot`	`geektechnica is currently on #bzflag (1h 23m 33s). Has said a total of 8 messages. Is idling for 13m 31s`
`06:25.29`	`lan56`	`ahh :)`
`06:25.32`	`Patlabor221`	`you could run codewarior on anything`
`06:25.45`	`Patlabor221`	`why?`
`06:25.48`	`lan56`	`they never did send me my trial CD`
`06:25.51`	`Patlabor221`	`faster then hell compiles`
`06:25.59`	`lan56`	`I used MPW`
`06:25.59`	`Patlabor221`	`great IDE`
`06:26.01`	`Patlabor221`	`I know`
`06:26.04`	`lan56`	`I loved it like my mother`
`06:26.19`	`lan56`	`It had every language in the book`
`06:26.28`	`lan56`	`ada, 68k asm, pascal, c/c++, java`
`06:26.30`	`Patlabor221`	`I only needed 1 language`
`06:26.32`	`lan56`	`you name it, it had it`
`06:26.39`	`Patlabor221`	`C++ works fine`
`06:26.39`	`lan56`	`let me guess-C?`
`06:26.48`	`lan56`	`I was close ;)`
`06:27.10`	`Patlabor221`	`68Kasm died the day they shiped a PPC`
`06:27.26`	`Patlabor221`	`codewarior made kick ass PPC code`
`06:27.57`	`lan56`	`didn't it have a cross compiler?`
`06:27.58`	`Patlabor221`	`not like I use it anymore`
`06:27.59`	`lan56`	`for Windows?`
`06:28.05`	`Patlabor221`	`they have it for windows sure`
`06:28.10`	`Patlabor221`	`would even do cross compiles`
`06:28.22`	`lan56`	`thats what I just asked! :)`
`06:28.23`	`Patlabor221`	`and just cus it's difrent and you didn't like it, dosnt mean its bad`
`06:28.31`	`lan56`	`never said it was`
`06:28.39`	`lan56`	`but MPW was free, and I did like that part`
`06:28.40`	`Patlabor221`	`yet you hate the people?`
`06:28.44`	`Patlabor221`	`sure`
`06:28.50`	`lan56`	`no :)`
`06:28.52`	`Patlabor221`	`you could get free codewarior too`
`06:29.02`	`lan56`	`they never sent me the CD for free one!`
`06:29.14`	`Patlabor221`	`bummer`
`06:29.19`	`lan56`	`I asked and asked, submitted everything I know about myself, and no CD in the mail!`
`06:29.27`	`lan56`	`I even got sent the code for the trial`
`06:29.30`	`lan56`	`but no CD`
`06:29.35`	`Patlabor221`	`well those days are gone`
`06:29.48`	`lan56`	`no, they live forever`
`06:30.00`	`lan56`	`I remember getting an upgrade to 32 mb of ram`
`06:30.07`	`Patlabor221`	`only in the hearts of those who refuse to change ;)`
`06:30.07`	`lan56`	`It was so exciting`
`06:30.21`	`lan56`	`or a 24.4 k modem instead of the 2200 :)`
`06:30.21`	`Patlabor221`	`change is good :)`
`06:30.27`	`lan56`	`not always`
`06:30.37`	`Patlabor221`	`nothing is ever 100%`
`06:30.49`	`lan56`	`explain`
`06:31.02`	`Patlabor221`	`one single rule can not apply to every situation`
`06:31.06`	`Patlabor221`	`so generlay change is good`
`06:31.10`	`Patlabor221`	`but sure some change is bad`
`06:31.16`	`Patlabor221`	`that's accepted`
`06:31.19`	`lan56`	`exactly`
`06:31.56`	`lan56`	`I remember calling 1-800-APPL-SOS`
`06:32.00`	`lan56`	`or was it sos-appl?`
`06:32.12`	`lan56`	`well, appl-sos is funny`
`06:32.13`	`Patlabor221`	`shoulda called s0s-appl`
`06:32.18`	`lan56`	`sounds like "apple sauce"`
`06:32.27`	`Patlabor221`	`it was a much better number`
`06:32.28`	`lan56`	`why's that?`
`06:32.33`	`Patlabor221`	`way more funny`
`06:32.37`	`lan56`	`with that zero`
`06:32.41`	`Patlabor221`	`yup`
`06:32.46`	`Patlabor221`	`was not apple`
`06:33.07`	`lan56`	`pirated number huh?`
`06:33.07`	`Patlabor221`	`nope`
`06:33.07`	`Patlabor221`	`fully legit`
`06:33.08`	`Patlabor221`	`just not apple`
`06:33.13`	`lan56`	`I would say it was porno look alike scam, but porn wasn't popular back then`
`06:33.22`	`Patlabor221`	`it was`
`06:33.27`	`lan56`	`oh :)`
`06:33.30`	`Patlabor221`	`porn is ALLWAYS popular`
`06:33.38`	`Patlabor221`	`it's what drives the internet`
`06:33.53`	`lan56`	`but the internet was barely popular back then`
`06:33.53`	`Patlabor221`	`what do you think png was made for`
`06:34.03`	`Patlabor221`	`and it STILL had porn :)`
`06:34.05`	`lan56`	`making a better format?`
`06:34.10`	`Patlabor221`	`for....?`
`06:34.20`	`lan56`	`better compression?`
`06:34.24`	`lan56`	`portabilioty?`
`06:34.28`	`lan56`	`colors?`
`06:34.30`	`Patlabor221`	`sure so you can get more porn`
`06:34.37`	`Patlabor221`	`in better quality`
`06:34.45`	`lan56`	`actually, most porn is made in .JPG format`
`06:34.50`	`lan56`	`its a Windows type thing`
`06:34.55`	`Patlabor221`	`huh?`
`06:34.59`	`lan56`	`I never see GNU/Linux pornos`
`06:35.05`	`Patlabor221`	`again? huh?`
`06:35.18`	`Patlabor221`	`Ie has supported base PNG since 4`
`06:35.19`	`lan56`	`I always see pornos distributed in Window Media format`
`06:35.25`	`Patlabor221`	`sure`
`06:35.31`	`Patlabor221`	`but that is not jpeg`
`06:35.36`	`lan56`	`I know`
`06:35.44`	`lan56`	`at least for the video stuff`
`06:35.53`	`Patlabor221`	`sure go least common denomiator`
`06:36.04`	`lan56`	`LCD?`
`06:36.14`	`Patlabor221`	`Little choclate dohunts!`
`06:37.00`	`lan56`	`have you ever noticed that glazed donuts taste better than chocolate?`
`06:37.19`	`Patlabor221`	`I think that is based on each person's tastes`
`06:37.28`	`lan56`	`no, its common knowledge`
`06:38.06`	`Patlabor221`	`if you say so`
`06:38.08`	`Patlabor221`	`then it must be right`
`06:38.27`	`lan56`	`have you ever seen the movie Pirates of Silicon Valley?`
`06:38.39`	`Patlabor221`	`the mini series on TV?`
`06:38.43`	`lan56`	`yes!`
`06:38.53`	`Patlabor221`	`I think so`
`06:39.03`	`lan56`	`well, its a movie, not a series`
`06:39.21`	`Patlabor221`	`IIRC there were 2, one was a movie one was a series`
`06:39.26`	`Patlabor221`	`on simialr subjects`
`06:39.35`	`lan56`	`I remember only the movie`
`06:39.42`	`Patlabor221`	`think the series was called "triumph of the nerds"`
`06:39.53`	`lan56`	`must have been junk`
`06:39.59`	`lan56`	`never heard of it`
`06:40.09`	`Patlabor221`	`actualy many I know rather liked it`
`06:40.17`	`Patlabor221`	`much more informivie`
`06:40.25`	`Patlabor221`	`done documentry style`
`06:40.30`	`lan56`	`I like the movie best`
`06:40.31`	`Patlabor221`	`but if you say it's crap`
`06:40.34`	`Patlabor221`	`then it's crap`
`06:40.40`	`Patlabor221`	`and that's all that matters`
`06:40.41`	`lan56`	`it is, I know best :)`
`06:40.46`	`Patlabor221`	`of course you do`
`06:40.47`	`lan56`	`sure :)`
`06:40.55`	`lan56`	`:)`
`06:41.30`	`lan56`	`no, everyone is equal, some know more than others, but I am not one like that, that is superior in knowledge`
`06:42.21`	`Patlabor221`	`but you make such broad generalisations, they MUST be correct and well researched, lest why would you say them if they were not wholetruths?`
`06:42.59`	`lan56`	`I don't lie, but I don't know everything, so if I know a reasonable amount, I share what I know`
`06:43.07`	`lan56`	`if I don't know much, I be quiet`
`06:43.29`	`Patlabor221`	`lies are based on truth, and truth is relitive :)`
`06:43.50`	`lan56`	`:)`
`06:45.59`	`lan56`	`one thing about karma system, is there anything that will be added to the client, or is karma a server thing?`
`06:46.18`	`Patlabor221`	`as far as I know it's held on the karma server`
`06:46.33`	`Patlabor221`	`I don't know if they will add karma controlls to the client`
`06:46.40`	`Patlabor221`	`or if it will be done by / comands`
`06:46.48`	`lan56`	`ahh`
`06:46.54`	`Patlabor221`	`tho probalby at least a password field will be added to the client`
`06:46.56`	`Patlabor221`	`so it can login`
`06:47.03`	`Patlabor221`	`and maybe a registration feature`
`06:47.11`	`Patlabor221`	`the logic happens at server level`
`06:47.18`	`lan56`	`a neat implementation for karma incrementation would be like that in here`
`06:47.23`	`Patlabor221`	`client stuff would be just to make it easyer on the players`
`06:47.25`	`lan56`	`except without the ~`
`06:47.36`	`Patlabor221`	`that's the simplest way sure`
`06:47.41`	`Patlabor221`	`with a server text command`
`06:48.09`	`Patlabor221`	`I donohow they are gonna implement it tho`
`06:48.15`	`Patlabor221`	`IIRC trepan was helping out with it`
`06:48.29`	`lan56`	`so let me get this straight, all karma is is that a server stores data about all players, and all players are registered, and other registered players can increment/decrement others?`
`06:48.40`	`trepan`	`just a little, i've been moving _very_ slowly`
`06:48.44`	`Patlabor221`	`it's a bit more compelx then that`
`06:49.08`	`Patlabor221`	`it's not any player`
`06:49.08`	`Patlabor221`	`there is a level of "Trust" that each player has`
`06:49.08`	`lan56`	`registered ones let me guess`
`06:49.13`	`Patlabor221`	`no a subset of registerd users who are 'trusted'`
`06:49.17`	`trepan`	`doing a little work on pkcs12 certificates, dunno if tim will like it`
`06:49.20`	`lan56`	`oh`
`06:49.32`	`Patlabor221`	`then when your karma is bumped high enough by trusted people, you too become trusted`
`06:49.40`	`Patlabor221`	`least that's how it was splained to me`
`06:49.56`	`lan56`	`but how does anyone become trusted to start with when everyone is null at beginning?`
`06:50.04`	`trepan`	`payola`
`06:50.12`	`Patlabor221`	`the database will need to be seeded with a base set of "trusted" people`
`06:50.21`	`Patlabor221`	`so somone will have to manyualy flag the first couple people`
`06:50.28`	`Patlabor221`	`then it'll go from there`
`06:50.41`	`lan56`	`you mean, built in, or that each server owner has a list created?`
`06:50.42`	`trepan`	`http://ebay.com/bz_karma.html`
`06:50.50`	`Patlabor221`	`there is 1 karma server`
`06:51.02`	`Patlabor221`	`ebay?`
`06:51.06`	`Patlabor221`	`wtf?`
`06:51.11`	`lan56`	`says it cant be found`
`06:51.18`	`Patlabor221`	`I think he means bzflag.org`
`06:51.22`	`trepan`	`paypal? jokin' dude`
`06:51.30`	`Patlabor221`	`heh`
`06:51.34`	`lan56`	`:)`
`06:51.43`	`lan56`	`I mean BZFS server owners`
`06:51.47`	`trepan`	`why not? they sell virtual game realty there i hear`
`06:51.50`	`Patlabor221`	`there is 1 database for auth, so you have to be set as truted`
`06:51.53`	`Patlabor221`	`in that`
`06:51.58`	`Patlabor221`	`I don't htink it matters via server`
`06:52.06`	`Patlabor221`	`server ops can set what to do based on min karma`
`06:52.10`	`Patlabor221`	`like allow only registerd`
`06:52.17`	`Patlabor221`	`or allow only those with X karma`
`06:52.18`	`lan56`	`and the development team picks who are the starters for karma?`
`06:52.26`	`Patlabor221`	`Tim probably will yes`
`06:52.54`	`Patlabor221`	`probably the server owners of the common popular servers`
`06:53.17`	`lan56`	`I hope it's people I know, I know a few server owners, and I hope they're one of the few`
`06:53.22`	`trepan`	`we're gonna have a big online poker game! 24 hr limit, start with 100 karma chips`
`06:53.29`	`*** join/#bzflag Nikaji (~switched@ny-amherst-C4-2-bg1a-6-149.bflony.adelphia.net)`
`06:53.39`	`lan56`	`how about interviews?`
`06:53.40`	`lan56`	`:)`
`06:53.41`	`Patlabor221`	`karma is just as good as the comunity it supports`
`06:53.49`	`trepan`	`rules: no guns, no cheating, no staying sober`
`06:53.57`	`Patlabor221`	`so eventaly trust will spread based on those people's discisions`
`06:54.05`	`lan56`	`which style? texas holdem? sever card stud?`
`06:54.06`	`Patlabor221`	`it's not a global admin system`
`06:54.20`	`trepan`	`lan56: that's tim's call ;)`
`06:54.25`	`purple_cow`	`lan56: go fish`
`06:54.31`	`lan56`	`boo! I hate go fish`
`06:54.36`	`lan56`	`thats 3rd grade junk`
`06:54.39`	`Patlabor221`	`WAR!`
`06:54.41`	`purple_cow`	`pfft`
`06:54.55`	`lan56`	`how about roulette>?`
`06:55.19`	`Patlabor221`	`it's your noggin`
`06:56.14`	`Patlabor221`	`damn, forgot to eat again`
`06:56.21`	`lan56`	`how do you forget that?`
`06:56.41`	`lan56`	`thats like forgetting to go to work`
`06:57.40`	`Patlabor221`	`umm be doing something else untill you realise your starving`
`06:57.55`	`Patlabor221`	`it's rather simple actualy`
`06:58.01`	`Patlabor221`	`<PROTECTED>`
`06:58.33`	`lan56`	`sounds reasonable`
`06:58.55`	`Patlabor221`	`how can you forget that?`
`06:58.57`	`lan56`	`let me guess, I forgot as well`
`06:59.10`	`lan56`	`yeah how do you?`
`06:59.56`	`lan56`	`don't you turn off one of those old fashioned circular alarm clocks by picking it up and throwing it at the wall?`