irclog2html for #bzflag on 20040617

`00:02.57`	`*** part/#bzflag mozul (~KBC18135@130.221.56.188)`
`00:03.10`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/common/WordFilter.cxx: remove the simple calloc/free debug counters now that the problem was fixed`
`00:08.22`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone_ (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-123-103.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`00:09.12`	`lan56`	`ahh, theres the bug`
`00:09.22`	`lan56`	`I got kicked from my server when paused and playing with bots`
`00:09.45`	`*** part/#bzflag devnull (~devnull@82-41-115-83.cable.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`00:11.25`	`learner`	`yay for bugs`
`00:11.58`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone_ (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-121-213.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`00:12.02`	`lan56`	`hmm, from the debug output of bzfs, it seems the bots got kicked because of a write error`
`00:12.13`	`lan56`	`no wait`
`00:12.16`	`*** join/#bzflag \|tim\| (~424bc656@procyon.noodleroni.com)`
`00:12.21`	`Tupone_`	`that is because the player was kicked :)`
`00:12.25`	`lan56`	`nevermind, I am thinking of something else`
`00:12.26`	`lan56`	`:)`
`00:15.31`	`*** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (~frank@p508215D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`00:15.44`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone_ (~Tupone@ppp-82-84-121-110.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`00:33.06`	`CIA-4`	`navi-misc: 03jeffm * r4527 10firestarter/ (8 files in 6 dirs): more shot work`
`00:33.20`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-224-18.dialup.innercite.com)`
`00:34.30`	`Tupone`	`hi DTRemenak`
`00:34.35`	`DTRemenak`	`hi Tupone`
`00:34.45`	`Tupone`	`still fonting?`
`00:34.47`	`learner`	`hi DTRemenak`
`00:35.10`	`DTRemenak`	`Tupone: yup, got some nasty crash bug that the debugger won't trap`
`00:35.16`	`DTRemenak`	`hi learner`
`00:35.40`	`DTRemenak`	`going to copy it all onto the linux partition and give it a go in gdb tomorrow`
`00:35.46`	`learner`	`so when do we get to valgrind the hell out of bzflag client? ;)`
`00:35.55`	`DTRemenak`	`learner: it's mostly clean`
`00:36.06`	`DTRemenak`	`the biggest problem was OpenGLTexFont`
`00:36.11`	`DTRemenak`	`which leaks like no tomorrow`
`00:36.20`	`DTRemenak`	`which is one reason I'm replacing it`
`00:36.24`	`learner`	`and that was fixed?? i dont' recall patches`
`00:36.27`	`learner`	`ahh`
`00:36.29`	`DTRemenak`	`hah`
`00:36.47`	`learner`	`I hate that file`
`00:37.14`	`DTRemenak`	`Patlabor221 wrote a font manager a while back before he moved to ogre, goes with texturemanager/drawablesmanager/etc`
`00:37.25`	`DTRemenak`	`I'm just integrating it`
`00:37.28`	`learner`	`it's crashed Macs under various configurations since 1.7g0 ;)`
`00:37.39`	`DTRemenak`	`it leaks, and does double-frees`
`00:37.47`	`DTRemenak`	`(Opengltexfont, that is)`
`00:38.52`	`DTRemenak`	`and it's ugly, hard to debug code`
`00:40.32`	`lan56`	`I can't seem to understand myself what is causing the bot kick bug. I guess if it isn't able to be fixed, just don't have invalidPlayerMessage() check robots and hope that the owner gets caught, and when he's kicked, bots go too`
`00:43.39`	`Tupone`	`lan56, in one of my test, also human was ignored :(`
`00:44.14`	`lan56`	`:( jeez, I guess it will take a miracle`
`00:44.52`	`lan56`	`or what we could do, is if the human pauses, all bots pause`
`00:45.57`	`Tupone`	`I mean I play a human withou bot`
`00:46.36`	`lan56`	`hmm, does he mean that he played alone and sent messages while paused and never got kicked for them?`
`00:47.45`	`learner`	`I think he meant he just joined and played regularly and had issues (ignored not kicked)`
`00:48.08`	`lan56`	`I don't know what to say`
`00:48.26`	`learner`	`me either .. that's why he's been working on it for several days on and off.. :)`
`00:48.48`	`lan56`	`well, I will also play with it, maybe work something out`
`00:49.02`	`learner`	`there's time though.. like I said, I'll probably look at it on Friday if it's still unresolved`
`00:49.08`	`learner`	`I need a refresher of that code anyways`
`00:49.26`	`lan56`	`if worst case happens, there is the pre-patch revision available`
`00:49.44`	`learner`	`pre-patch?`
`00:49.53`	`lan56`	`before the patch was applied`
`00:49.58`	`lan56`	`if it gets that bad`
`00:50.00`	`lan56`	`and hard`
`00:50.16`	`learner`	`it's trivial to remove the offending checks.. in fact -- I think just removing the check for movement would probably suffice`
`00:50.28`	`lan56`	`but what about shots?`
`00:50.33`	`lan56`	`robots shoot too`
`00:50.38`	`learner`	`I've yet to hear that those have been the problem`
`00:51.01`	`learner`	`different packet types get sent differently -- which may be the problem in itself`
`00:51.09`	`learner`	`some are sent udp, some tcp ..`
`00:51.37`	`learner`	`need -d -d -d -d on server and watch the packets fly`
`00:51.56`	`lan56`	`I have used -d before`
`00:51.59`	`lan56`	`its very interesting`
`00:52.03`	`lan56`	`but it lags my servers`
`00:52.07`	`lan56`	`but then again, I have dialup`
`00:52.13`	`lan56`	`so my servers just lag in general`
`00:52.26`	`blast007`	`hehe, sounds like my servers ;)`
`00:52.47`	`lan56`	`:)`
`00:53.17`	`learner`	`drat .. sdl 1.2.7 doesn't fix the window coordinate problem :(`
`00:53.44`	`learner`	`lan56, I can get you access to the bzfs's on bzflag.bz`
`00:53.53`	`learner`	`where you can watch the logs fly`
`00:54.02`	`lan56`	`logs? for what?`
`00:54.14`	`learner`	`for -d -d -d -d`
`00:54.27`	`lan56`	`well, I don't want to cause you trouble, its no problem`
`00:55.15`	`lan56`	`but about movement packets being the problem, you are true, I tested it with movement packets not being checked for cheating, and no bugs happen`
`00:55.30`	`lan56`	`so that would be the best fix if worst case happens`
`00:56.00`	`learner`	`that should also make it rather easy to isolate the problem`
`00:56.08`	`lan56`	`sure does`
`00:56.11`	`learner`	`movement packets are sent in a specific piece of code`
`00:57.08`	`lan56`	`brb`
`01:02.03`	`lan56`	`back`
`01:02.49`	`*** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@adsl-64-167-77-158.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net)`
`01:02.49`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ`
`01:08.17`	`*** join/#bzflag amathis (~amathis@cpe-024-165-176-053.midsouth.rr.com)`
`01:14.06`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (bryjen@69-166-132-170.clvdoh.adelphia.net)`
`01:15.09`	`menotume`	`lan56: Thanks for filling us in on that. I Hope everything works out all right.`
`01:16.01`	`*** join/#bzflag lengthy (~424bc656@procyon.noodleroni.com)`
`01:17.35`	`lan56`	`menotume: np`
`01:22.30`	`*** join/#bzflag trepan_away (~trepan@CPE0040f42db082-CM00e06f15f704.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`01:26.01`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/platform/SDLDisplay.cxx: Work around an SDL bug related to an inverted Y-axis on Macs (1.2.7 does not fix) that run with -window .. might be specific to multi-display systems`
`01:27.23`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/BUGS: the sdl bugs for key pause and flipped window controls are squished`
`01:33.05`	`*** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (~frank@p508214B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`01:39.29`	`lan56`	`is there a certain reason why the callsign & host input query has "std::cin>>name" instead of "getline()"?`
`01:39.37`	`lan56`	`as for bzadmin`
`01:39.48`	`lan56`	`located in bzadmin.cxx`
`01:39.58`	`lan56`	`appears if no callsign \|\| host are given on the command line`
`01:41.59`	`trepan_away`	`it's the C++ way, and getline() is a GNU extension iirc`
`01:42.31`	`lan56`	`no, getline for std::strings`
`01:42.40`	`lan56`	`like "getline(std::cin, std::string);`
`01:43.06`	`learner`	`you mean std::getline()`
`01:43.12`	`lan56`	`yes`
`01:43.25`	`learner`	`no reason probably`
`01:43.31`	`lan56`	`heh`
`01:44.20`	`lan56`	`well, std::cin doesn't take whitespace for std::strings, so maybe to avoid long callsigns?`
`01:44.22`	`learner`	`explicit namespaces are preferred in the code, if you didn't notice ;) .. there are no "using namespace std;"`
`01:44.52`	`lan56`	`yes I noticed that, I avoid "using namespace std" myself, it's a little cheap ;)`
`01:45.31`	`learner`	`nah,I think the std::cin thing was just added as a fallback if callsign wasn't given sometime later`
`01:46.01`	`learner`	`go ahead and change it.. shouldn't be an issue cept maybe vc 6 but even then not likely`
`01:46.24`	`lan56`	`ok, just thought it would be nice to have whitespace in the callsign`
`01:47.04`	`*** join/#bzflag Death_Barrel (~Death_Bar@cs2427127-19.houston.rr.com)`
`01:47.05`	`*** join/#bzflag DeathBarrel (~Death_Bar@cs2427127-19.houston.rr.com)`
`01:47.07`	`learner`	`should allow the same callsigns as the client .. which implies moving the callsign validation code into src/game.. hrm`
`01:47.11`	`*** join/#bzflag Death_Barrel (~Death_Bar@cs2427127-19.houston.rr.com)`
`01:47.14`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-227-241.dialup.innercite.com)`
`01:47.15`	`*** join/#bzflag Death-Barrel (~Death_Bar@cs2427127-19.houston.rr.com)`
`01:51.50`	`learner`	`lan56, trepan does have a point .. bzadmin probably doesn't do it because there are a handful of rules that need to be followed and simply not allowing whitespace avoids a couple problems`
`01:52.17`	`learner`	`like no leading or trailing whitespace, non-printable chars, too much punctuation, etc`
`01:52.37`	`learner`	`but definately better to be consistent with the client`
`01:52.39`	`lan56`	`but then again, if the client has it, shouldn't bzadmin?`
`01:53.00`	`trepan`	`or vice versa`
`01:53.13`	`lan56`	`jeez, just forget it then :)`
`01:54.03`	`trepan`	`i agree though, it should be consistent`
`01:54.06`	`*** join/#bzflag lengthy (~424bc656@procyon.noodleroni.com)`
`01:54.06`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-4 (~CIA@82.208.29.89)`
`01:54.08`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03lan56 * 10bzflag/src/bzadmin/bzadmin.cxx: allow whitespace in callsign, and I guess host.`
`01:54.11`	`lan56`	`take it back?`
`01:54.24`	`learner`	`no, it's fine`
`01:54.39`	`lan56`	`well, now the project will never be the same :)`
`01:55.05`	`learner`	`aua sniff .. lan56`
`01:55.10`	`learner`	`first commit`
`01:55.17`	`lan56`	`its a beutiful thing`
`01:55.24`	`blast007`	`:)`
`01:55.38`	`lan56`	`this should go in bzflag history :)`
`01:55.52`	`learner`	`actually, it needs to go into the ChangeLog`
`01:56.01`	`lan56`	`but its such a small change`
`01:56.12`	`learner`	`a user-visible one, though`
`01:56.33`	`learner`	`your call`
`01:58.37`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03lan56 * 10bzflag/ChangeLog: allow whitespace in callsign, and I guess host for BZAdmin.`
`01:58.41`	`lan56`	`I don't know :)`
`01:59.24`	`lan56`	`speaking about "herd", GNU misspelled that word`
`01:59.57`	`guu`	`New news from bzgirl: in america`
`02:01.01`	`DTRemenak`	`lan56: http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/faq.en.html#q1-2`
`02:01.05`	`DTRemenak`	`it's an acronym`
`02:01.16`	`trepan`	`Hird of Unix-Replacing Daemons, HURD`
`02:01.33`	`lan56`	`I knew it wasn't blatant, but never knew why`
`02:04.08`	`learner`	`~dict hird`
`02:04.40`	`DTRemenak`	`learner: same URL :)`
`02:04.47`	`DTRemenak`	`they're recursive`
`02:05.02`	`learner`	`i know`
`02:05.09`	`learner`	`~hird is Hurd of Interfaces Representing Depth`
`02:05.11`	`ibot`	`learner: i already had it that way`
`02:05.14`	`learner`	`bah`
`02:05.15`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`02:05.34`	`lan56`	`~gnu`
`02:05.35`	`ibot`	`i heard gnu is an animal having a drooping beard. And it's also an antelope.`
`02:05.41`	`DTRemenak`	`what dictionary does ibot use?`
`02:05.50`	`learner`	`don't recall`
`02:05.59`	`learner`	`~jargon hurd`
`02:06.25`	`learner`	`poor ibot always has trouble with jargon`
`02:06.30`	`lan56`	`lol`
`02:07.14`	`learner`	`wonder if frid is a friend`
`02:07.55`	`DTRemenak`	`perhaps frids is a pub`
`02:08.07`	`learner`	`lengthy's a bit young for that`
`02:08.12`	`DTRemenak`	`ah, don't know him`
`02:08.30`	`learner`	`length is \|tim\|`
`02:08.45`	`DTRemenak`	`ah`
`02:09.06`	`lan56`	`he sure is intelligent though`
`02:09.07`	`learner`	`he took a liking to me always calling him lengthy ;)`
`02:09.16`	`lan56`	`wouldn't have thought he is a youngster`
`02:09.24`	`*** join/#bzflag GeekTechnica (~Sinn@cpe-024-165-214-094.midsouth.rr.com)`
`02:10.08`	`lan56`	`is it sweet tea? man, I love tea sweet!`
`02:11.03`	`learner`	`you know what.. I forgot that the callsign checks are in the server already anyways .. so the bzadmin change is really benign .. they'll still get kicked for unauthorized callsigns`
`02:11.10`	`learner`	`it's hot tea`
`02:11.36`	`lan56`	`hah, you see? no worries about allowing white space :)`
`02:11.40`	`lan56`	`is it sweet, though?`
`02:11.44`	`learner`	`yay.. bzfs herd is back on-line at last`
`02:12.03`	`learner`	`of course not.. sweet shmeet ;)`
`02:12.18`	`learner`	`I like my water dry and unsweetened`
`02:13.16`	`learner`	`suppose you've not had earl grey or black tea or raspberry tea?`
`02:13.25`	`lan56`	`no`
`02:13.29`	`lan56`	`just green tea, and nomrla`
`02:13.32`	`lan56`	`*normal`
`02:13.48`	`bryjen`	`normal and abnormal then`
`02:15.05`	`learner`	`hey bryjen..`
`02:15.27`	`menotume`	`eeep, keeping the non-observer bzadmin from being idle-kicked is nasty`
`02:15.27`	`menotume`	`mus tsend MsgPlayerUpdate s :(`
`02:15.47`	`menotume`	`I'm afraid to even experiment, might crash a server.`
`02:15.49`	`learner`	`menotume, why's it getting kicked?`
`02:15.56`	`menotume`	`idle-kicked`
`02:15.59`	`learner`	`the idle kick checks for observer no?`
`02:16.14`	`menotume`	`it's not running as obs in this case`
`02:16.30`	`menotume`	`It's for Quol's HTF server - joins as green`
`02:16.37`	`learner`	`oh .. wait .. what the heck is "non-observer bzadmin"?? :)`
`02:16.41`	`learner`	`ahh`
`02:16.44`	`menotume`	`lol`
`02:17.02`	`menotume`	`added a command-line option to join as green`
`02:17.07`	`learner`	`why's it join green?`
`02:17.19`	`DTRemenak`	`heh, HTF hack`
`02:17.24`	`menotume`	`must have at least one green player, to get green base apparently`
`02:17.39`	`learner`	`ahh`
`02:17.51`	`menotume`	`he wants the bot to occupy the spot, so no-one else does`
`02:17.53`	`learner`	`why not just add a new bzfs game mode :) it's popular enough`
`02:18.03`	`lan56`	`instead of tackling bzadmin and having an extra player on quol's server, how about modify bzfs so that it creates green regardless?`
`02:18.04`	`bryjen`	`its been debated`
`02:18.05`	`learner`	`just look for ctf throughout the code`
`02:18.07`	`menotume`	`are you volunterring ?`
`02:18.16`	`menotume`	`:)`
`02:18.38`	`menotume`	`I have bzadmin acting as a bot - keeping score for CTF. That works fine.`
`02:18.45`	`bryjen`	`http://bzbb.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?t=1782`
`02:18.48`	`lan56`	`ok :)`
`02:19.06`	`lan56`	`I remember that night here that we argued about HTF`
`02:19.45`	`menotume`	`err, *keeping score for HTF`
`02:20.20`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/TODO: the players have spoken, hold-the-flag is wanted`
`02:20.30`	`learner`	`whether it's team or open is simply player config on the server side`
`02:20.33`	`lan56`	`after all, this is a democracy :)`
`02:20.38`	`DTRemenak`	`ha`
`02:21.08`	`learner`	`having played it, it certainly is a "game mode" in it's own right .. and having proper score support is a "good idea"`
`02:21.14`	`DTRemenak`	`yup`
`02:21.34`	`menotume`	`lol brygen`
`02:21.49`	`learner`	`it's interesting.. that's one of the first player-inventions that I know of that were spawned out of player imagination.. :)`
`02:22.10`	`learner`	`i mean collectively`
`02:22.25`	`lan56`	`in CVS, where is nethandler.cxx`
`02:22.29`	`learner`	`to organize a half-dozen people to join a team and play a certain way ;)`
`02:22.43`	`menotume`	`good point`
`02:22.44`	`DTRemenak`	`lan56: game`
`02:22.48`	`lan56`	`ahh, ty`
`02:26.11`	`lan56`	`but wouldn't that reset the scores?`
`02:26.24`	`menotume`	`yep, I'll need to make the data persistant`
`02:26.39`	`lan56`	`or just keep checking if disconnected in the loop`
`02:26.48`	`menotume`	`and hope that no one scores (or joins as green) whie reconnecting`
`02:26.49`	`DTRemenak`	`menotume: you could just have bzfs not kick a player with that playername :)`
`02:27.08`	`DTRemenak`	`since it'd always be joined, noone else could take advantage of it`
`02:27.08`	`menotume`	`thx, learner`
`02:27.21`	`lan56`	`but if the bot keeps sending out messages showing scores, there is no idle kick`
`02:27.21`	`menotume`	`YES. And no poll kick`
`02:27.28`	`menotume`	`not true`
`02:27.35`	`DTRemenak`	`menotume: bingo`
`02:28.08`	`lan56`	`hmm, I thought someone here said that it is measured by how frequently any packet is sent`
`02:28.08`	`menotume`	`it has to be a MsgPlayerUpdate`
`02:28.08`	`menotume`	`i looked`
`02:28.15`	`lan56`	`jeez, he knows more than I do :)`
`02:28.32`	`menotume`	`yep, I don't think that person was sure`
`02:29.08`	`learner`	`so modify the server so it's not just MsgPlayerUpdate`
`02:29.21`	`trepan`	`menotume: MsgPlayerUpdate \|\| MsgMessage, seems easy/safe`
`02:29.38`	`menotume`	`yes.`
`02:30.00`	`menotume`	`ok thx, have a couple of options now`
`02:31.50`	`menotume`	`lol trepan`
`02:40.42`	`FredCods_`	`On my server, I want to put any type of flags but geno. Do I have to enumerate each one ?`
`02:41.18`	`learner`	`nope`
`02:42.32`	`learner`	`+f good +f bad -f G`
`02:42.47`	`learner`	`that'll add 1 of every flag except geno`
`02:43.23`	`FredCods`	`hum`
`02:43.31`	`FredCods`	`thanks`
`02:44.21`	`learner`	`might need to specify just how many.. +f good{1} +f bad{1} -f G etc`
`02:44.22`	`FredCods`	`if i want 2 times each good flag, 1 time bad flag, and no geno, I double +f good and -f G, that's right ?`
`02:44.26`	`FredCods`	`ah`
`02:44.27`	`FredCods`	`ok`
`02:44.47`	`learner`	`doubling up the +f good should work too`
`02:44.52`	`FredCods`	`i'm reading the man page, but it was not clear (for me)`
`02:45.12`	`learner`	`feel free to send me what you think would be clear and I'll update it ;)`
`02:46.34`	`FredCods`	`so, if i add +f good{10}, the -f G will remove all geno, or only one ? (keeping 9 geno)`
`02:47.40`	`DTRemenak`	`-f only prevents randomly-generated flags, iirc`
`02:48.26`	`DTRemenak`	`"-f: never randomly generate flag <id>"`
`02:48.32`	`DTRemenak`	`+f G will force it on`
`02:49.01`	`FredCods`	`i'm testing +f 'good{4}' +f bad -f 'G{4}'..`
`02:49.13`	`DTRemenak`	`you probably want something like +s 50 -s 50 -f G`
`02:49.23`	`DTRemenak`	`which will generate 50 flags randomly, but never genocide`
`02:49.32`	`FredCods`	`hum`
`02:49.33`	`FredCods`	`ok`
`02:49.57`	`DTRemenak`	`or for more variation, +s 48 -s 64 -f G, which will generate between 48 and 64 flags, but never genocide`
`02:51.28`	`FredCods`	`ok. (What about adding such example to man page ?)`
`02:53.21`	`learner`	`yay, DTR said it .. :)`
`02:53.34`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`03:03.02`	`*** join/#bzflag mebigfatguy (MAC@balt-209-150-116-162.dynamic-dial.qis.net)`
`03:22.38`	`*** join/#bzflag lan56 (lan56@dialup-4.233.11.39.Dial1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net)`
`03:27.53`	`*** join/#bzflag CobraA1 (~Jeremiah@68.189.194.153)`
`03:35.22`	`*** join/#bzflag [6yob] (~consus@user-69-1-42-120.knology.net)`
`03:37.43`	`*** join/#bzflag GDTRFB (s1eu9Y8PEf@24.171.118.70)`
`03:41.05`	`GDTRFB`	`anybody in here old enough to remember empire (an old PLATO game)?`
`03:41.56`	`GDTRFB`	`flag reminds me of it...only not as territorial`
`03:42.08`	`GDTRFB`	`3D, too...`
`03:44.11`	`learner`	`of empire? nah`
`03:44.21`	`learner`	`don't see the connection`
`03:50.02`	`CIA-4`	`BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/CmdLineOptions.cxx: bzfs help touchup`
`03:55.34`	`GDTRFB`	`you played emp?`
`03:56.24`	`learner`	`yep`
`03:56.38`	`learner`	`not for real long, though`
`03:57.12`	`GDTRFB`	`you know, you're right similarities are only superficial... four teams, etc...`
`03:58.05`	`GDTRFB`	`but they're both hard on keyboards... :)`
`03:58.28`	`learner`	`oh that's right.. you were asking earlier`
`03:58.53`	`GDTRFB`	`keyboard vs. mouse...yes, that was me...`
`03:58.55`	`learner`	`with enough practice you can play just as well by key as with a mouse`
`03:59.07`	`learner`	`very few do, but some do`
`03:59.17`	`GDTRFB`	`tried the mouse for about a hlaf hour...seemed real loose`
`04:00.25`	`GDTRFB`	`moving, shooting and jumping simultaneously is hard w/ the keys tho...`
`04:00.39`	`learner`	`you can get very good at high-speed high-precision shots`
`04:00.52`	`learner`	`jumping is for the weak`
`04:01.11`	`learner`	`learn to dodge .. it'll be the best tactic you ever learn`
`04:01.12`	`GDTRFB`	`i really need a better keyboard...this eight-buck belkin ain't uctting it... :)`
`04:01.39`	`GDTRFB`	`i'm getting better...but lateral movement doesn't see to do much`
`04:01.47`	`learner`	`try surviving on ducati or quol 2-shot ctf no-jumping .. see how long you last`
`04:02.09`	`GDTRFB`	`that's what i've heard...ducati is almost always full up...`
`04:02.18`	`learner`	`that's where most of the old-time pros hang out`
`04:02.33`	`GDTRFB`	`ahhh, the real old skool...`
`04:02.59`	`learner`	`hepcat is good for practice .. but it tends to be full of newbies`
`04:03.11`	`learner`	`it's 3-shot ctf`
`04:03.23`	`learner`	`which is still rather different from ducati-style`
`04:03.34`	`GDTRFB`	`i'll try hepcat...i've only been playing about two weeks, so i qualify as a newb...`
`04:05.08`	`learner`	`but seriously, if you want to be any good .. I'd recommend no-jumping .. jumping is just cheating death by making you not die when you should have`
`04:05.43`	`GDTRFB`	`i'm learning that...but my lateral movement doesn't seem to dodge incoming...`
`04:06.03`	`learner`	`once you learn dodging, jumping seems foolish and vulnerable except for a few specific maps`
`04:06.35`	`GDTRFB`	`i agree with that...jump a lot less now than i used to...`
`04:06.57`	`GDTRFB`	`sometimes necessary to get platformed players, tho...`
`04:07.32`	`GDTRFB`	`jumping, that is...`
`04:07.43`	`Quol`	`anobody around to test out my updated HTF map?`
`04:09.09`	`learner`	`jumping is okay to get to places (like up on ledges/buildings/etc) .. just _never_ to avoid a shot`
`04:09.26`	`Quol`	`hmm - well, just in case someone reads this - I will be testing it out ok my HTF instance..quol.bzflag.org:5168...`
`04:09.33`	`learner`	`using it to avoid shots will get you in trouble and teach you bad habits .. since it works often against newbies`
`04:10.11`	`learner`	`but put someone like me on an empty field one-on-one and I'll probably make the kill 20 to 1`
`04:13.01`	`GDTRFB`	`point well taken...`
`04:13.48`	`SportChick`	`learner is the dodge-king`
`04:14.03`	`GDTRFB`	`sporty! it's low score...`
`04:14.12`	`SportChick`	`ah! hiya low!`
`04:14.14`	`SportChick`	`nice to see you`
`04:14.17`	`GDTRFB`	`aka GDTRFB...`
`04:14.27`	`GDTRFB`	`same here`
`04:14.57`	`GDTRFB`	`hehehehe...need to be a deadhead to get my irc nick...`
`04:15.13`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@host-224-39.dialup.innercite.com)`
`04:16.27`	`SportChick`	`is this an incredible photo or what: http://gpn.jeepz.com/images/6@holesm.jpg`
`04:16.48`	`lan56`	`I LOVE SPAWN CAMPING`
`04:16.54`	`[6yob]`	`yes`
`04:16.58`	`lan56`	`right now, I made 126 kills, all in spwan camping`
`04:17.00`	`[6yob]`	`with a geno=)`
`04:17.02`	`[6yob]`	`hehe`
`04:17.09`	`lan56`	`laser, SR, SW`
`04:17.16`	`lan56`	`you name it, I spawn camped with it`
`04:17.16`	`[6yob]`	`or geno?`
`04:17.22`	`[6yob]`	`lol`
`04:17.24`	`lan56`	`yes, I used geno here and there`
`04:17.29`	`GDTRFB`	`that's how i feel looking out my tank window....`
`04:17.32`	`lan56`	`I spawn camped on CTF server`
`04:17.38`	`[6yob]`	`same here`
`04:17.44`	`[6yob]`	`klike vipers=)`
`04:17.50`	`learner`	`hi sportster`
`04:17.53`	`lan56`	`or maybe babel's place`
`04:18.07`	`SportChick`	`hey learner!`
`04:18.09`	`SportChick`	`:)`
`04:18.31`	`SportChick`	`everyone behaving tonight?`
`04:18.36`	`lan56`	`oh, hello sportchick, I am adding a hello myself`
`04:20.05`	`*** part/#bzflag trepan_away (~trepan@CPE0040f42db082-CM00e06f15f704.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`04:20.59`	`lan56`	`thats a lot of hands you must have, Sportchick, to wave to everyone`
`04:21.22`	`[6yob]`	`nvery nice sporty`
`04:21.29`	`SportChick`	`ty 6`
`04:23.45`	`lan56`	`same here`
`04:24.01`	`[6yob]`	`hehe`
`04:24.10`	`lan56`	`:-)`
`04:24.24`	`[6yob]`	`no but i seriously want some pasta now..`
`04:24.31`	`[6yob]`	`oh..`
`04:24.49`	`[6yob]`	`I had a piza for dinner:(`
`04:24.51`	`lan56`	`I like the pasta that is long, thick noodles, not spaghetti but the long wide ones, and green pepers and beef mixed in it`
`04:24.59`	`lan56`	`I haven't had dinner yet`
`04:25.03`	`[6yob]`	`lol`
`04:25.20`	`*** join/#bzflag KR (~krrt@cae88-41-202.sc.rr.com)`
`04:25.22`	`[6yob]`	`have you tryed the thin noddles i forget whatbthere called?`
`04:25.29`	`lan56`	`spaghetti?`
`04:25.32`	`[6yob]`	`there really thin from asian area?`
`04:25.34`	`KR`	`hey all`
`04:25.42`	`lan56`	`hmm, dontk now the name, but yes`
`04:25.43`	`[6yob]`	`hello KR`
`04:25.47`	`lan56`	`I know what you are talking about`
`04:25.49`	`KR`	`ramen`
`04:25.49`	`lan56`	`hey KR`
`04:25.55`	`[6yob]`	`lol`
`04:25.59`	`learner`	`make`
`04:26.01`	`[6yob]`	`no ramen:o)`
`04:26.05`	`KR`	`thin noodles from Asia :)`
`04:26.10`	`[6yob]`	`true..`
`04:26.12`	`lan56`	`oh, I love those noodles! I love the ones that come in the foam cup with vegies and spice`
`04:26.17`	`learner`	`hrm.. i suppose that won't make this code build in this window..`
`04:26.18`	`[6yob]`	`i have thenm downstairs..`
`04:26.22`	`[6yob]`	`bbrb lol`
`04:26.22`	`KR`	`also rice noodles are thin`
`04:26.42`	`SportChick`	`build it wherever you want, learner`
`04:26.43`	`learner`	`howdy KR! :)`
`04:26.52`	`SportChick`	`this IS #bzflag after all!`
`04:26.57`	`learner`	`how's the water?`
`04:27.00`	`SportChick`	`not #noodles or #cooking`
`04:27.00`	`KR`	`waddup larnering dude? :)`
`04:27.27`	`KR`	`put the new bzflag release on today, played some`
`04:27.36`	`learner`	`going well.. moved a month or so ago.. took me away from most stuff here for a couple months`
`04:27.43`	`KR`	`weird, after like 6 weeks or so not playing`
`04:27.51`	`KR`	`where to?`
`04:28.00`	`SportChick`	`http://chinesefood.about.com/library/blnoodlescook.htm`
`04:28.06`	`learner`	`oh, not far away .. closer to work actually`
`04:28.13`	`KR`	`lol SPort :)`
`04:28.13`	`learner`	`still in MD`
`04:28.29`	`SportChick`	`howdy KR`
`04:28.33`	`KR`	`MaD ;)`
`04:28.55`	`KR`	`that greasy guy must be sleeping`
`04:28.56`	`learner`	`sushi!`
`04:29.03`	`KR`	`mmm smushi`
`04:29.13`	`SportChick`	`I had sushi for lunch today! yummmmmmmmmmmmmmm`
`04:29.17`	`[6yob]`	`sushi is good=)`
`04:29.25`	`SportChick`	`sushi ain't "good"`
`04:29.25`	`[6yob]`	`yes, very..`
`04:29.29`	`SportChick`	`sushi is the BEST!!`
`04:29.32`	`KR`	`went Gulf Stream fishing a couple weeks ago - we caught 6 Mahi`
`04:29.33`	`[6yob]`	`lol`
`04:29.43`	`KR`	`very fresh sushi :)`
`04:29.47`	`[6yob]`	`its fairly tasty ill givya that;)`
`04:30.01`	`KR`	`mushi`
`04:30.04`	`[6yob]`	`gulf strem you live in the south?`
`04:30.04`	`KR`	`:)`
`04:30.09`	`KR`	`yes SC`
`04:30.19`	`learner`	`http://bzflag.bz/tmp/they_found_nemo.jpg`
`04:30.23`	`[6yob]`	`cool i live in the real south buddy;P`
`04:30.25`	`[6yob]`	`:P`
`04:30.31`	`KR`	`real south?`
`04:30.36`	`[6yob]`	`ALabama :)`
`04:30.39`	`KR`	`bah`
`04:30.42`	`[6yob]`	`lol`
`04:30.49`	`[6yob]`	`north al:)`
`04:30.52`	`KR`	`first shots fired - Charleston, SC ;)`
`04:30.56`	`[6yob]`	`huntsville if ya know where that is`
`04:31.01`	`[6yob]`	`;)`
`04:31.06`	`KR`	`during The War of Northern Aggression`
`04:31.15`	`KR`	`:D`
`04:31.21`	`learner`	`heh, too southerners arguing over who's "more" in the south :)`
`04:31.25`	`KR`	`rocket city`
`04:31.27`	`[6yob]`	`ok, ok sc is still considered the south..`
`04:31.30`	`[6yob]`	`lol`
`04:31.35`	`SportChick`	`learner: did you fgure out where I was in the photo link from our main page`
`04:31.36`	`[6yob]`	`but al is MORE south:)`
`04:31.47`	`SportChick`	`GA is awfully south too`
`04:31.48`	`KR`	`nah - AL is more west`
`04:31.51`	`KR`	`:)`
`04:31.52`	`[6yob]`	`yeah rocket city how did you know?`
`04:31.59`	`learner`	`SportChick: i know not of the words you write`
`04:32.01`	`KR`	`I Know All Things`
`04:32.04`	`[6yob]`	`lol`
`04:32.04`	`KR`	`:)`
`04:32.14`	`[6yob]`	`yes von bruan`
`04:32.20`	`[6yob]`	`was stationed here`
`04:32.25`	`KR`	`werner was a good friend of mine`
`04:32.29`	`[6yob]`	`lo`
`04:32.31`	`[6yob]`	`lol`
`04:32.31`	`SportChick`	`learner: you know..the new photo you see when you go to http://www.KirkandDonna.com/`
`04:32.34`	`KR`	`that wjhole rocket thiong? my idea...`
`04:32.35`	`learner`	`SportChick, you see the sushi? :)`
`04:32.36`	`SportChick`	`the one that links to MY page`
`04:32.45`	`SportChick`	`learner: I've seen it before`
`04:32.48`	`learner`	`yeah, I saw that pic`
`04:32.56`	`[6yob]`	`no joke but my dads friend who is like 80 or somethiung was on the team:)`
`04:33.01`	`SportChick`	`learner: yes, but do you know where I AM in the photo`
`04:33.10`	`SportChick`	`VERY famous landmark`
`04:33.12`	`SportChick`	`behind me`
`04:33.17`	`[6yob]`	`whats that sporT?`
`04:33.36`	`SportChick`	`maybe I should make it the question of the week : "guess the location"`
`04:33.46`	`learner`	`sydney :P`
`04:33.49`	`KR`	`Fishermans Market?`
`04:33.51`	`SportChick`	`not`
`04:33.52`	`SportChick`	`no`
`04:33.58`	`SportChick`	`learner: no`
`04:34.01`	`SportChick`	`KR: no`
`04:34.01`	`[6yob]`	`lol a channel hmm:)`
`04:34.22`	`KR`	`wait - which pic?`
`04:34.23`	`[6yob]`	`lol sydney..:)`
`04:34.31`	`[6yob]`	`top one.?`
`04:34.33`	`SportChick`	`the one on our front page (upper right)`
`04:34.34`	`[6yob]`	`i thinlk`
`04:34.40`	`[6yob]`	`oh..`
`04:34.44`	`SportChick`	`not on MY page, 6, on our FRONT page`
`04:34.45`	`GDTRFB`	`hey learner: thx for the advice...gotta go feed the beast :)`
`04:34.50`	`[6yob]`	`ok gotcha`
`04:34.51`	`SportChick`	`http://www.KirkandDonna.com/`
`04:34.51`	`*** part/#bzflag GDTRFB (s1eu9Y8PEf@24.171.118.70)`
`04:34.59`	`KR`	`your head shot/link photo?`
`04:35.06`	`SportChick`	`yep`
`04:35.16`	`SportChick`	`if you figure it out, post the answer in #guessthelocation`
`04:35.36`	`[6yob]`	`lol`
`04:35.42`	`KR`	`London!`
`04:35.44`	`KR`	`:)`
`04:35.53`	`SportChick`	`wrong channel`
`04:36.39`	`KR`	`when did the newest bzflag come out?`
`04:36.58`	`SportChick`	`which "new one"?`
`04:37.05`	`[6yob]`	`10.6?`
`04:37.08`	`[6yob]`	`or what`
`04:37.10`	`[6yob]`	`cvs?`
`04:37.11`	`KR`	`mmm - 10.6?`
`04:37.16`	`KR`	`in the deb repos`
`04:37.17`	`SportChick`	`oh, a few weeks ago`
`04:37.41`	`KR`	`just played someone on duc, looked like a skinny tank`
`04:37.53`	`KR`	`there callsign was "."`
`04:38.01`	`SportChick`	`oh, I think he's a consistent cheater`
`04:38.12`	`KR`	`doesn't talk`
`04:38.28`	`SportChick`	`if it's the same guy, that is`
`04:38.31`	`KR`	`good shooter, but shots go through even when he wasn't moving`
`04:38.39`	`KR`	`point blank`
`04:38.41`	`[6yob]`	`Newcastle sport perhaps?`
`04:38.51`	`SportChick`	`Nope`
`04:38.53`	`KR`	`after it happened about 8 times, its kind of a giveaway :)`
`04:38.55`	`[6yob]`	`:(`
`04:38.56`	`lan56`	`perhaps lag?`
`04:39.01`	`[6yob]`	`small or big?`
`04:39.05`	`lan56`	`big`
`04:39.06`	`[6yob]`	`city..`
`04:39.09`	`KR`	`nope - lag was essentially the same for both of us`
`04:39.10`	`lan56`	`like >500 ms`
`04:39.19`	`KR`	`135ms +/-`
`04:39.27`	`lan56`	`hmm, not bad lag I might add`
`04:39.50`	`KR`	`only person I bitch at for lagging is RC ;)`
`04:39.56`	`KR`	`lol`
`04:40.06`	`lan56`	`what is her lag?`
`04:40.18`	`SportChick`	`~ping learner`
`04:40.20`	`ibot`	`pong learner`
`04:40.28`	`KR`	`dunno lately, but used to she was always high lag and jumpy`
`04:40.29`	`[6yob]`	`ahha Canberra!`
`04:40.30`	`lan56`	`try a backslash`
`04:40.45`	`lan56`	`hmm, on babels server she's not too high in lag`
`04:41.00`	`[6yob]`	`SportChick: Canberra!`
`04:41.04`	`[6yob]`	`;)`
`04:41.09`	`SportChick`	`6: no`
`04:41.12`	`[6yob]`	`:(`
`04:41.17`	`KR`	`Vegas!`
`04:41.21`	`KR`	`:D :D :D`
`04:41.22`	`[6yob]`	`what others..`
`04:41.26`	`[6yob]`	`how small is it?`
`04:41.35`	`[6yob]`	`i mean im thinking of big ones`
`04:41.54`	`[6yob]`	`Adelaide is another?`
`04:41.55`	`SportChick`	`KR: not hardly`
`04:42.12`	`[6yob]`	`SportChick: Adelaid is another?`
`04:42.22`	`SportChick`	`6: great city, Adelaide, but no`
`04:42.26`	`[6yob]`	`Adelaide SportChick`
`04:42.31`	`[6yob]`	`yeah you went?`
`04:42.35`	`SportChick`	`yep`
`04:42.38`	`[6yob]`	`cool`
`04:42.40`	`KR`	`hard to see detail in that photo`
`04:42.49`	`SportChick`	`one very large landmark behind, KR`
`04:42.57`	`KR`	`Table Mt?`
`04:43.03`	`SportChick`	`VERY GOOD`
`04:43.08`	`SportChick`	`and the city?`
`04:43.15`	`[6yob]`	`Melbourne and Brisbane are the only two more i know..`
`04:43.19`	`[6yob]`	`either one?`
`04:43.20`	`KR`	`well, I wondered, but it looked awfull sunny for So. Africa`
`04:43.20`	`SportChick`	`6: no and no`
`04:43.25`	`[6yob]`	`no!!!!`
`04:43.26`	`SportChick`	`heh`
`04:43.26`	`[6yob]`	`arg:)_`
`04:43.31`	`SportChick`	`KR wins`
`04:43.33`	`KR`	`Johannesburg`
`04:43.35`	`SportChick`	`~KR++`
`04:43.37`	`SportChick`	`noooooooooo`
`04:43.42`	`SportChick`	`~KR--`
`04:43.44`	`KR`	`Cape Town?`
`04:43.50`	`SportChick`	`yes!`
`04:43.52`	`SportChick`	`Capetown`
`04:43.55`	`[6yob]`	`waht!`
`04:43.57`	`[6yob]`	`BOO!`
`04:43.59`	`[6yob]`	`lol`
`04:44.00`	`[6yob]`	`;)_`
`04:44.01`	`SportChick`	`I'll go close the channel`
`04:44.04`	`KR`	`never seen it from that perspective - the Mt looks so close`
`04:44.12`	`[6yob]`	`man thats cheap:)`
`04:44.16`	`KR`	`clo\ser than in other pics I've seen`
`04:44.23`	`SportChick`	`really?`
`04:44.31`	`KR`	`yes`
`04:44.53`	`KR`	`lotta Table Mt pics in sailors books of peep who have circumnavigated`
`04:45.04`	`[6yob]`	`=)`
`04:45.09`	`SportChick`	`Well, if you wanna see it REALLY close, look at : http://www.kirkanddonna.com/rtw/SouthAfrica.htm`
`04:45.16`	`KR`	`okies`
`04:47.06`	`KR`	`kewl pics`
`04:47.17`	`SportChick`	`ty`
`04:47.19`	`KR`	`will bookmark that and read all about the RTW trip :)`
`04:47.34`	`[6yob]`	`wow thats very long sport=)`
`04:47.39`	`[6yob]`	`but intresting`
`04:47.44`	`[6yob]`	`was the trip fun?`
`04:47.47`	`[6yob]`	`:)`
`04:48.21`	`SportChick`	`KR: it'll take you a while! Heh! We were a bit verbose at times.`
`04:48.25`	`SportChick`	`6: it was a blast`
`04:48.26`	`KR`	`lol`
`04:48.36`	`KR`	`thats OK - reading is fun ;)`
`04:49.00`	`[6yob]`	`sprache de duetsch!!=)`
`04:49.07`	`[6yob]`	`along the way:)`
`04:49.13`	`KR`	`sprache de beer`
`04:49.16`	`KR`	`:)`
`04:49.18`	`[6yob]`	`:)`
`04:49.26`	`KR`	`Ich bin ein Bier!`
`04:49.33`	`KR`	`lol`
`04:49.41`	`[6yob]`	`Wer kine fremsch kann, kann ech die eight night..`
`04:49.42`	`KR`	`to paraphrase Kennedy`
`04:49.42`	`SportChick`	`ich spreche ein bischen deutsch`
`04:49.42`	`[6yob]`	`lol`
`04:49.50`	`[6yob]`	`very good sport:)`
`04:49.55`	`SportChick`	`ich habe viele vergessen`
`04:50.14`	`KR`	`ich I thinken I seen a roachen`
`04:50.15`	`[6yob]`	`khine sry:)`
`04:50.27`	`[6yob]`	`lol KR:)`
`04:50.31`	`KR`	`:)`
`04:50.39`	`learner`	`ich bin ein sleep`
`04:50.42`	`[6yob]`	`sporty where did you pick up german`
`04:50.42`	`[6yob]`	`?`
`04:50.48`	`SportChick`	`guten nacht learner`
`04:50.57`	`SportChick`	`ich habe in deutschland gewohnen`
`04:51.07`	`[6yob]`	`ahh`
`04:51.09`	`SportChick`	`fur vier jahren`
`04:51.22`	`KR`	`OK - gonna git - tell JB, Nid, Fiber, et al that I said "...allo!" - and ya'll have a good night :)`
`04:51.31`	`SportChick`	`cya kr`
`04:51.33`	`SportChick`	`chuss`
`04:51.41`	`KR`	`Ich bin outen herin`
`04:51.50`	`SportChick`	`heh`
`04:51.56`	`KR`	`aufweidershein`
`04:52.06`	`KR`	`and edelweiss`
`04:52.09`	`KR`	`:)`
`04:52.52`	`[6yob]`	`Ich lernte Bit und peices von meinem Vati..`
`04:52.55`	`[6yob]`	`=)`
`04:53.05`	`[6yob]`	`not much..`
`04:53.14`	`[6yob]`	`had to crack out the book for that:)`
`04:53.24`	`SportChick`	`deine vati? ist er deutsche?`
`04:53.54`	`[6yob]`	`no amercan`
`04:53.56`	`[6yob]`	`:)`
`04:54.02`	`SportChick`	`heh`
`04:54.19`	`SportChick`	`well, it's time for me to hit the hay, as well`
`04:54.33`	`SportChick`	`guten abend, sechs`
`04:55.10`	`learner`	`off to bed you go then.. have hubby resuscitate ;)`
`04:55.27`	`SportChick`	`heh, he's playing bz`
`04:55.30`	`[6yob]`	`later learner`
`04:55.31`	`SportChick`	`I may die first`
`04:55.35`	`[6yob]`	`lol`
`04:55.36`	`learner`	`heh`
`04:55.53`	`learner`	`~spell resuscitate`
`04:55.54`	`ibot`	`'resuscitate' may be spelled correctly`
`04:55.54`	`SportChick`	`surfing EARLY tomorrow`
`04:56.09`	`learner`	`have fun!`
`04:56.11`	`[6yob]`	`Ich habe eine Sitzung mit der Armee am Morgen in der Mittagessen-Zeit`
`04:56.42`	`[6yob]`	`für eine Simulation machte ich:) in c`
`04:56.47`	`[6yob]`	`ech!`
`04:56.55`	`[6yob]`	`whys it freaking`
`04:57.01`	`[6yob]`	`brb`
`04:57.03`	`*** part/#bzflag [6yob] (~consus@user-69-1-42-120.knology.net)`
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`04:57.14`	`[6yob]`	`better=)`
`04:57.39`	`[6yob]`	`So wer ist Eingeborener deutsch?`
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`05:00.44`	`[6yob]`	`Hallo Hühnergoldklumpen wie geht Ihr Tag?`
`05:00.53`	`[6yob]`	`ack there we go again`
`05:00.55`	`[6yob]`	`brb`
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`05:03.19`	`[6yob]`	`Ok alle vielleicht sollte ich ins Bett gehen. Ich habe einen groben Tag am Morgen.`
`05:03.46`	`[6yob]`	`later fella's`
`05:03.52`	`*** part/#bzflag [6yob] (~consus@user-69-1-42-120.knology.net)`
`05:07.03`	`Quol`	`well - taht was fun...`
`05:07.10`	`Quol`	`g'night all -see you later..`
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`05:46.11`	`purple_cow`	`fantastic`
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