| 00:03.07 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-057-049-230.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 00:43.38 | huwr | Whoa, cool: http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/02/1638220&tid=126&tid=134 |
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| 01:23.57 | *** join/#bzflag MeBigFatGuy (dave@balt-209-150-117-238.dynamic-dial.qis.net) |
| 01:31.13 | *** part/#bzflag tegan (~lyra@dsl017-034-201.sfo4.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
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| 02:05.03 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03lan56 * 10bzflag/Dev-C++/ (5 files): mingw32 has hypotf (thanks to dtremenak for tipping me off about this) |
| 02:13.05 | learner | he pays you? durn |
| 02:14.37 | lan56 | heh :)))))) no, I meant telling me :) |
| 02:14.44 | learner | w00t |
| 02:14.51 | DTRemenak | so, how's that logging system going? |
| 02:15.25 | lan56 | indeed :) |
| 02:17.29 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi (~frank@p50820F72.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:17.36 | trepan | depends, you trying to start an electrical fire? |
| 02:17.53 | DTRemenak | mm, no that wasn't my intention |
| 02:18.11 | DTRemenak | of course, it was also not my intention to drop a screw into that computer while it was running... |
| 02:18.26 | lan56 | phillips head? |
| 02:18.38 | DTRemenak | yeah, for the expansion cards |
| 02:19.16 | DTRemenak | hm, well, it still boots :) |
| 02:20.08 | learner | DTRemenak, I've been "doing other things" since I got my host info :) |
| 02:20.14 | DTRemenak | ahhh :) |
| 02:21.06 | DTRemenak | how far have you gotten with your server? |
| 02:21.48 | learner | still poking ports and testing performance etc |
| 02:21.56 | learner | looking at logs, what's where |
| 02:21.59 | trepan | learner: what provider did you go with? |
| 02:22.00 | learner | etc |
| 02:22.10 | learner | ended up going with sagonet |
| 02:22.11 | DTRemenak | cool :) |
| 02:23.54 | trepan | dedicated, co-loc? |
| 02:24.01 | learner | dedicated |
| 02:24.21 | trepan | 99.95% uptime guarantee, not bad |
| 02:24.56 | learner | meh .. that's pretty bad :) |
| 02:24.57 | trepan | wonder if you get a free lunch if it only gets 99.94% |
| 02:25.08 | learner | no, they credit me money |
| 02:25.40 | learner | it it goes down for more than 15 min cumulative in a month, I believe, I get $ |
| 02:26.09 | learner | yeah, there were a few others that were 100% or $$$ |
| 02:26.23 | learner | but this place by far had the best offer |
| 02:26.30 | learner | a luck/random find really |
| 02:26.40 | learner | one of the few that will allow irc |
| 02:27.16 | trepan | irc/ssh/cvs/bzfs, the works permitted? |
| 02:27.18 | learner | yep |
| 02:27.25 | learner | pretty much if it's legal, I can do it |
| 02:27.27 | trepan | even you own execs, not bad |
| 02:27.37 | learner | well, it's dedicated host |
| 02:27.44 | learner | so the whole box is mine |
| 02:28.33 | learner | i.e. i have root |
| 02:29.33 | learner | as soon as it's set up, I'll set up a bzflag dev account for folks to do what they want |
| 02:29.53 | learner | or specific accounts for folks interested on request |
| 02:35.08 | trepan | 1.8 GHz Celeron deal? |
| 02:37.04 | learner | for now, yes :) |
| 02:38.56 | learner | that's enough bandwidth to support 3 really popular servers 24-7 and then some |
| 02:39.00 | trepan | not bad, looks like you get an average 500K/s without surcharge |
| 02:39.10 | learner | though I have a fair bit of hosting needs, so that'll likely only support 2 |
| 02:40.29 | trepan | assuming the 1250G is 1250G for each direction |
| 02:40.58 | learner | total |
| 02:41.10 | trepan | and there's always bits vs. bytes |
| 02:41.21 | trepan | although GB seems to be bytes |
| 02:41.30 | learner | GB is bytes |
| 02:42.50 | learner | so that's about 500KB/s total transfer |
| 02:44.33 | learner | which is about what, 4Mbit sustained average? |
| 02:44.48 | trepan | 500*8 ;) |
| 02:45.09 | learner | secretplace uses almost a full 1Mbit cumulative |
| 02:45.13 | trepan | i'd guess you'll be mostly output |
| 02:45.23 | learner | definately |
| 02:46.32 | learner | at that price, if I max out the connection, I'll just get another server and split the load |
| 02:47.23 | learner | I want to start off with 2 bzflag servers, HiX and Antescher |
| 02:47.45 | trepan | we'll havta get you a better ant |
| 02:47.55 | learner | :) |
| 02:52.13 | trepan | which OS are you gonna go with? |
| 02:52.21 | learner | i went with freebsd |
| 02:53.03 | trepan | a mac guy pickin' bsd, imagine that ;) |
| 02:54.56 | learner | aua.. no gnu build system yet |
| 02:55.17 | learner | have to install practically everything on this sucker |
| 02:55.51 | trepan | at least you'll know what you're gettin, what does freebsd have as a package manager, ports? auto-installed stuff? |
| 02:56.00 | learner | ports |
| 02:57.14 | trepan | never used ports, just read a little blurb on it, seems simple yet effective |
| 02:57.22 | trepan | it do any depency stuff? |
| 02:57.31 | trepan | s/depency/dependency |
| 02:57.44 | learner | yep |
| 02:57.54 | trepan | cool |
| 02:58.12 | learner | most of the existing stuff was initially ideas forked off of ports |
| 03:16.04 | *** join/#bzflag amathis (~amathis@cpe-024-165-180-012.midsouth.rr.com) |
| 04:04.15 | *** join/#bzflag Quol_detached (~quolsimo@65.39.216.149) |
| 04:04.30 | Quol_detached | frigen thing... |
| 04:04.42 | jomojo | learner are you around? |
| 04:05.37 | Quol_detached | hello |
| 04:05.40 | Quol_detached | hmm |
| 04:05.44 | jomojo | hmm |
| 04:05.49 | jomojo | lol |
| 04:06.59 | learner | jomojo, nope |
| 04:07.08 | jomojo | haha |
| 04:07.24 | Quol | finally |
| 04:07.35 | Quol | holy crap- sometimes I hate computers :) |
| 04:07.41 | learner | poor Quol having identity crises tonight? :) |
| 04:08.13 | Quol | stupid dirc proxy - it keeps thinking my nick is Quol_detached_detached |
| 04:08.40 | Quol | so when I reconnect - it just drops one of the "detaches" and doesn't like the "/NICK" command :) |
| 04:10.29 | Quol | what's up learner - I haven't been "attached" for a little while and so I feel like I have missed out on things :() |
| 04:10.36 | learner | :) |
| 04:10.38 | learner | you have |
| 04:10.45 | learner | I have my new toy :) |
| 04:10.50 | Quol | ohh - do tell |
| 04:10.57 | learner | dedicated host purchase finally was made |
| 04:11.19 | learner | got the info just today |
| 04:11.21 | Quol | ohh - cool, what you end up getting? |
| 04:11.56 | jomojo | yes do tell |
| 04:12.22 | learner | it's all about the bandwidth, of course 1250GB/month |
| 04:12.37 | Quol | is it a good deal - with one of those companies that give you a package for like 100$/month or something |
| 04:12.41 | learner | 10Mbit pipe, so I'll be able to sustain 4Mbit of that 24-7 |
| 04:12.56 | learner | it's an excellent deal, from all the looking around I did |
| 04:13.02 | Quol | who with |
| 04:13.03 | learner | sort of found them out of the blue |
| 04:13.06 | learner | http://sagonet.com/servers/bargains.php |
| 04:13.12 | jomojo | hmm some sort of fun match going on proxs i am off |
| 04:13.28 | learner | top one, freebsd |
| 04:14.08 | learner | they basically have _no_ restrictions as long as it's legal -- including irc |
| 04:14.21 | Quol | 65$/month - not had |
| 04:14.23 | Quol | bad |
| 04:14.27 | learner | they were the only ones that allowed irc outright |
| 04:14.40 | Quol | ya - everywhere I checked - IRC was banned |
| 04:14.45 | learner | and i didn't find that out until after I made the purchase |
| 04:14.53 | learner | I checked over a dozen |
| 04:15.16 | Quol | ya I bet, I know that I have checked a good half dozen myseld |
| 04:15.18 | Quol | f |
| 04:15.23 | learner | so many said "unrestricted content" .. and every time I'd finally talk to a rep .. "except irc" |
| 04:15.49 | Quol | yup - for security reasons - that's what everyone of them told me... |
| 04:16.06 | MeBigFatGuy | bot camps? |
| 04:16.13 | learner | yeah, denial of service attacks and what-not.. I can understand with the likes of efnet and quakenet |
| 04:16.42 | Quol | suprising though - you figure that SMTP is way less secure than IRC, for spammers to relay through and all that if you don't know how to set up relay restrictions on your server - you figure that they would start there |
| 04:16.57 | learner | not sure if I want to give up 1Mbit to freenode just yet, have to see how busy the machine is once everything is up and running |
| 04:17.11 | learner | but at that price, I might just get another server if I really need it :) |
| 04:17.13 | Quol | ya - i felt the same way |
| 04:17.26 | Quol | ya - not bad at all.... |
| 04:18.12 | Quol | if I was planning to stay at my present company for a little longer, i would see if I could through a couple of boxed on our production Net and get going on that....hehe |
| 04:18.38 | Quol | that way I could offer more and more to the BZ community :) |
| 04:18.39 | learner | the "welcome" e-mail was funny |
| 04:18.40 | learner | " |
| 04:18.42 | learner | FreeBSD is intended for expert and experienced users only. United.Colo and Sago Networks do not provide software installation nor configuration support (except the OS and ssh), on these versions." |
| 04:19.07 | learner | and that's exactly what I got .. ssh and the OS .. nothing else :) |
| 04:19.26 | Quol | hey - ports tree, here you come... |
| 04:19.31 | learner | yep :) |
| 04:20.56 | Quol | so - what kind of BZFlag servers you plan on running? |
| 04:21.01 | learner | so now it's the joy of getting everything I need installed first, then getting a slew of domains and projects moved |
| 04:21.29 | Quol | ya - they back up your server for you? |
| 04:21.33 | learner | HiX and Antescher for now |
| 04:21.52 | learner | you've got ducati-style covered on teh east coast, so no sense duplicating that |
| 04:22.42 | learner | they do not do backups, I'll likely rsync and backup here |
| 04:23.12 | Quol | probably safer that way anyways - even if they did I would still do something like that anyways |
| 04:25.04 | learner | cool part is I've already got a couple interested parties that want their low-traffic website's housed and are willing to spend a little for it. 2 or 3 of those and the server pays for itself already |
| 04:25.38 | Quol | hey learner - my current server is just running my bzflag services - that's it...what I did was set up some basic stats for the entire system, and my idea was to provide a place where anyone who was interested could see how much "toll" bzflag takes on a server on various parts...network, CPU, memory, etc.. in a real live environment - you think there is a use for this?? |
| 04:25.58 | learner | ! |
| 04:26.00 | learner | hell yes |
| 04:26.25 | Quol | check it out: http://quol.bzflag.org |
| 04:26.29 | Quol | i am still working on it |
| 04:26.34 | JBdiGriz | Sounds like the beginning of a business plan to me |
| 04:26.50 | Quol | I have the stats gathered for each individual process of BZFlag, and will create graphs for these also |
| 04:27.53 | Quol | that way people can see what happens to the system when there are x many players etc.. all graphs/data collection cover the same time period..so it should be pretty easy to look through everything and get a good benchmark |
| 04:28.16 | learner | yes, this is good stuff |
| 04:28.45 | learner | Quol, did you see the usage stats I compiled from a small timewindow of secretplace a few weeks back? |
| 04:28.52 | Quol | soeting I always wanted to do - just never got around to it |
| 04:29.02 | Quol | no |
| 04:29.14 | Quol | soeting - something :) |
| 04:29.16 | Quol | hey there JB |
| 04:29.32 | learner | we'd worked on a network performance tweak that was unknown how much benefit it was going to give |
| 04:30.13 | Quol | and - it help? |
| 04:30.17 | learner | so I gathered and graphed a bunch of stats from secretplace, which was really the only popular server I could find that was even storing stats (at the time) .. and then graphed the usage curves |
| 04:30.19 | Quol | or you don't know yet? |
| 04:30.34 | Quol | I am running 10.4 still, so that patch hasn't been applied on mine |
| 04:30.40 | learner | then i had Nidhoggr update his server with the change and a few weeks later I reran the graphs |
| 04:30.59 | learner | well, you tell me if it helped :) |
| 04:31.35 | Quol | the patch in current CVS head? or is it a seperate thing still? |
| 04:32.40 | learner | here we go |
| 04:32.52 | learner | probably the most interesting that includes before and after |
| 04:32.59 | learner | this is outbound server traffic |
| 04:33.00 | learner | http://bzflag.bz/usage/tolerance_tweak/secretplace_outbound.png |
| 04:33.21 | learner | that's rate outbound vs. player count |
| 04:33.51 | learner | same curve, just before tweak: http://bzflag.bz/usage/secretplace_outbound.png |
| 04:34.04 | JBdiGriz | Was there a noticable difference in the feel of the play? |
| 04:34.19 | learner | Here are more graphs: http://bzflag.bz/usage/ |
| 04:35.01 | learner | according to the secretplace regulars there was not |
| 04:35.07 | Quol | looks like tha patch helped quote a bit |
| 04:35.28 | learner | it was more of a run-time "tweak" than a patch .. two lines of source |
| 04:35.40 | Quol | 2 lines of source did that - wow |
| 04:35.41 | learner | tupone's idea really |
| 04:36.02 | learner | i just made the pretty pictures and complained until there was no more jitteryness :) |
| 04:36.26 | Quol | so - when will this patch be mainstream? |
| 04:36.33 | learner | next release |
| 04:36.45 | Quol | when's that planned - do we know yet? |
| 04:37.00 | learner | heh |
| 04:37.07 | learner | of course not :) |
| 04:37.18 | Quol | I figured- worth a sht though |
| 04:37.18 | learner | other interesting graph: http://bzflag.bz/usage/tolerance_tweak/secretplace_perplayer_outbound.png |
| 04:37.33 | Quol | that's ok, gives me some time to finish up my remaining graphs |
| 04:37.33 | learner | that's a graph important to the modem folk.. it's how much they're receiving |
| 04:37.59 | Quol | yes - important for everyone :) |
| 04:38.35 | Quol | my next 2 graphs sould prove interesting... |
| 04:39.02 | Quol | I have all the data, just have to graph it...will plot out CPU and MEM usage per BZFlag server instance |
| 04:39.13 | learner | did you write custom mrtg stuff for your graphs? |
| 04:39.23 | Quol | that way I can see what happens when there are no players compared to a bunch of players |
| 04:39.38 | Quol | pretty much - just using python and RRD |
| 04:39.47 | learner | sweet |
| 04:39.50 | Quol | with RRD I ahve more control |
| 04:39.53 | MeBigFatGuy | wow, now that is an immigration problem |
| 04:39.54 | MeBigFatGuy | http://www.weeklyworldnews.com/features/politics/61656 |
| 04:40.26 | learner | would be interesting to see something like those per-player graphs get generated from your data |
| 04:40.43 | Quol | and if RRDTool's graphing library proves too restrictive, and can just export the data easily and use whatever graphing tool I want - like ploticus or something |
| 04:42.29 | Quol | well - my servers get so little use - it's almost per player right now ?) |
| 04:42.30 | Quol | :) |
| 04:42.53 | *** join/#bzflag |tim| (timmmmmay@cpe-66-75-195-113.bak.rr.com) |
| 04:43.12 | learner | I started a patch that should make http://bzflag.bz/usage/tolerance_tweak/secretplace_outbound.png almost a flat line instead of almost exponential |
| 04:43.43 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-057-052-036.arcor-ip.net) |
| 04:44.06 | learner | so you could have a 50 player server at the bandwidth it takes for 25 right now .. instead of 10x the bandwidth |
| 04:44.22 | bryjen | ~bzflist |
| 04:44.43 | bryjen | then we'd only need 3 servers |
| 04:44.57 | learner | ended up opening a small can of worms that I have to fix now, though, to make it work right |
| 04:45.00 | learner | heh |
| 04:45.07 | Quol | that would be cool - how you gonna manage that? the server still needs to end every client the updates? just cut down/streamline the format? |
| 04:45.25 | learner | it culls updates that aren't important to certain players |
| 04:45.58 | Quol | I think I remember hearing something about that a while back now that you mention it... |
| 04:45.59 | learner | like it someone is really far away .. you mostly don't care if they turn .1 degree to the left |
| 04:47.06 | Quol | I guess that would be easy to manage - but could get tricky with certain worlds - like with teleporters or high speed |
| 04:47.16 | learner | it will also let bz scale to _gigantic_ worlds and only cause players that are within reasonable distances to cause updates to you |
| 04:47.24 | learner | yes.. that was the start of the complications |
| 04:47.33 | learner | I took care of the teleporters and high speed already |
| 04:47.55 | learner | it keeps track of the shortest distance to that player, including shortcuts through a teleporter |
| 04:48.11 | Quol | does it take heght into consideration also - like if you have a mile high deck or seomthing? |
| 04:48.29 | learner | yes -- it's a linear distance in 3d space |
| 04:49.29 | learner | what was last causing trouble that I've yet to finish up is accounting for the velocity (moreso, the direction) of the remote tank |
| 04:49.51 | Quol | cool - I hope it works out - then we can start having some huge huge worlds - would be cool if we could get something going so that you could run one world on multiple servers..that could be interesting |
| 04:50.22 | learner | it needs to perform a basic amount of proper dead reckoning so that I send an update, for example, when the tank reverses it's direction |
| 04:51.04 | Quol | ya - youcan't get away from that... |
| 04:51.05 | learner | yeah, theoretically, you could have utterly immense worlds that include hix, ducati, spirals, antescher, etc all separated by some distance and you could drive to each |
| 04:51.29 | learner | have 100 players on that server and not feel the impact of the 90 others that aren't "near" you ;) |
| 04:51.42 | learner | would be wierd :) |
| 04:52.30 | Quol | would be neat though to have let's say a decks server that has entry points all over the place (geographically speaking). People would just choose the closest "real server" to them, and the servers are in "synch" with one another.. |
| 04:52.36 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 04:52.36 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 04:52.51 | learner | quenching actually makes the server "do work" too.. so if it ends up being too much cpu, I might just have to wait until threading |
| 04:53.09 | learner | Patlabor221, was the shotgun enforced? :) |
| 04:53.52 | Patlabor221 | there were taquila shots! |
| 04:54.49 | learner | ooh, yum |
| 04:55.02 | Quol | it was nice chatting learner...bed time for me though - see you all later.. |
| 04:55.13 | learner | See ya Quol |
| 04:55.40 | Patlabor221 | tho I will have to have words with the bride, I was not seated at the table of hoties |
| 04:56.06 | learner | ahh, how unkind |
| 04:56.13 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 04:56.21 | Patlabor221 | I did jump to a better table |
| 04:59.45 | *** join/#bzflag jomojo (~jomojo@c-24-18-99-0.client.comcast.net) |
| 05:05.23 | Patlabor221 | learner: http://sasami.bakadigital.com/temp/libIRCSite.png |
| 05:05.44 | Patlabor221 | new icons and amathis's picture |
| 05:06.28 | learner | that's stretched, isn't it? |
| 05:06.33 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 05:06.36 | amathis | nice |
| 05:06.45 | Patlabor221 | figure he could make a better one with the source art |
| 05:06.57 | Patlabor221 | and there he is :) |
| 05:07.02 | amathis | :) |
| 05:07.06 | learner | the checkmark is a bit out of place :) |
| 05:07.14 | Patlabor221 | I'd like to see how to work in your libirc [dot[... header too |
| 05:07.28 | Patlabor221 | yeah I think maybe make it a list of check boxes |
| 05:07.51 | Patlabor221 | how are the others? |
| 05:07.54 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (lan56@dialup-4.233.53.95.Dial1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net) |
| 05:08.14 | Patlabor221 | or maybe we don't need a "features" item |
| 05:08.15 | amathis | hi lan56 |
| 05:08.30 | lan56 | hey |
| 05:08.33 | jomojo | oy almost had a new team beat us |
| 05:09.35 | huwr | KHAAAN! |
| 05:10.07 | Patlabor221 | reload |
| 05:10.42 | amathis | hmm |
| 05:11.08 | Patlabor221 | tho maybe that should be a documention link |
| 05:11.13 | Patlabor221 | instead of features |
| 05:16.17 | huwr | Nice. |
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| 05:16.17 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o DTRemenak] by irc.freenode.net |
| 05:16.17 | *** mode/#bzflag [-o DTRemenak] by ChanServ |
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| 05:16.35 | huwr | I'm scared. |
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| 05:17.05 | amathis | :Ld |
| 05:17.06 | amathis | cool |
| 05:17.36 | learner | wee |
| 05:17.36 | Patlabor221 | learner: you gonna run libirc.org on your host or sf? |
| 05:17.36 | learner | downloads, docs, faq, help/communication/etc, contributing, maybe links, support, about, and news are the main sections that come to mind .. you've got 'em all cept maybe links, docs, and faq |
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| 05:18.05 | amathis | thre was like 7 people still here |
| 05:18.05 | amathis | Patlabor221, like that one? |
| 05:18.20 | learner | have to wait until unsplit there kiddo :) |
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| 05:18.36 | learner | patlabor221, hadn't decided |
| 05:18.48 | Patlabor221 | whoot! |
| 05:18.53 | learner | if we want to toss up running stuff it'll have to be non-sf, of course |
| 05:19.09 | Patlabor221 | phpbb was what I was thinking |
| 05:19.20 | *** join/#bzflag jomojo (~jomojo@24.18.99.0) |
| 05:19.50 | Patlabor221 | oo jenova theme is nice |
| 05:20.05 | jomojo | what was that? |
| 05:20.13 | Patlabor221 | a split |
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| 05:21.33 | Patlabor221 | amathis: check out the jenova theme for phpbb |
| 05:21.37 | Patlabor221 | what do you think of it? |
| 05:22.51 | Patlabor221 | or bblite |
| 05:23.19 | amathis | jenova? |
| 05:23.19 | amathis | hmm.. |
| 05:23.19 | amathis | at phpbb.org? |
| 05:23.25 | Patlabor221 | ja |
| 05:23.28 | Patlabor221 | http://www.phpbb.com/styles/demo.php |
| 05:23.38 | Patlabor221 | then pick jenova from the header pull down |
| 05:23.42 | Patlabor221 | and then bblite |
| 05:23.55 | amathis | ew |
| 05:23.55 | amathis | ok |
| 05:24.34 | amathis | yeah? |
| 05:24.59 | Patlabor221 | I just liked those 2, wonderd what you though of them |
| 05:25.06 | amathis | ah |
| 05:25.11 | amathis | they are pretty cool. |
| 05:25.14 | Patlabor221 | man I can't belive people used to prefer cobalt over subsilver on bzbb |
| 05:25.27 | amathis | do you like rounded edges or boxens? |
| 05:25.33 | Patlabor221 | if we did a bb for libirc, I think ehter of those would be nice |
| 05:25.41 | Patlabor221 | depends, both can look good |
| 05:26.25 | Patlabor221 | bblite is nice cus it's simple |
| 05:26.41 | Patlabor221 | jenova is is cool, cus I like the 2 tone thingys |
| 05:27.05 | Patlabor221 | yet it's still very clean |
| 05:30.49 | lan56 | jeez, there is nothing but junk projects on the sf.net help needed list, I guess it makes sense |
| 05:33.07 | learner | sheesh.. just kicked myself off the box and the remote reboot port is not active yet .. ugh |
| 05:34.14 | learner | I'm also rather fond of: http://plone.org/ |
| 05:34.36 | Patlabor221 | a CMS? |
| 05:35.19 | learner | yep |
| 05:35.30 | Patlabor221 | cool |
| 05:35.41 | Patlabor221 | does it do just CMS? or bb stuff too? |
| 05:36.33 | learner | there are plugins of all sorts |
| 05:36.54 | learner | http://sourceforge.net/projects/collective |
| 05:37.24 | learner | http://plone.org/documentation/zope/collective |
| 05:37.45 | learner | phpbb probably kicks it's ass still, though |
| 05:37.48 | Patlabor221 | cool |
| 05:38.03 | Patlabor221 | phpbb does integrate wiht a number of CMSs |
| 05:38.09 | learner | don't know how hard it would be to get the two to play along seemlessly |
| 05:38.15 | learner | yeah |
| 05:38.53 | amathis | this site is looking good.. |
| 05:39.00 | amathis | learner, heavy hacking :) |
| 05:39.37 | learner | I believe this is it in action: http://www.zettai.net/Forums/ |
| 05:40.12 | learner | amathis, nah .. just a matter of syncing the accounts to 1 place |
| 05:40.25 | learner | probably easier to make phpbb use plone's user db |
| 05:41.38 | Patlabor221 | phpbb is prety well laied out |
| 05:41.42 | amathis | Vote Lizard 2004 |
| 05:42.02 | amathis | ."Take me to your lizard" -HGTTG |
| 05:42.08 | amathis | *grin* |
| 05:42.12 | learner | ahh.. |
| 05:42.15 | learner | here it is: http://www.cmfboard.org/forums/ |
| 05:42.17 | Patlabor221 | do we realy need CMS and BB users synced? |
| 05:42.47 | learner | that's looking more like phpbb |
| 05:42.54 | Patlabor221 | yeah |
| 05:43.08 | Patlabor221 | don't see a rank system tho |
| 05:43.11 | Patlabor221 | ranks are fuN :) |
| 05:43.23 | learner | it's there.. just no graphics |
| 05:43.30 | Patlabor221 | oh |
| 05:43.32 | learner | "Member".. "Manager" |
| 05:44.00 | Patlabor221 | probably not hard to do then |
| 05:44.06 | learner | oh, i like the menus.. |
| 05:44.46 | amathis | though, no one ever posted :D |
| 05:44.50 | Patlabor221 | wiht the same kinda features? |
| 05:45.05 | amathis | it had ranks, all the features of phpbb.. |
| 05:45.09 | amathis | cept' for emoticons |
| 05:45.21 | Patlabor221 | all the ban controll and bbcode and all that? |
| 05:45.28 | Patlabor221 | quick reply? |
| 05:45.42 | amathis | well, the ban code was integrated with my already in place ban code from my site., |
| 05:45.51 | Patlabor221 | ahh |
| 05:45.55 | Patlabor221 | impresive |
| 05:46.05 | Patlabor221 | you should publish it as a CMS |
| 05:46.07 | amathis | Patlabor221, well, it was a lot of work for nothing. |
| 05:46.12 | amathis | Patlabor221, #php2press |
| 05:46.15 | amathis | :) |
| 05:46.24 | Patlabor221 | it have any releases? |
| 05:46.28 | amathis | not yet |
| 05:46.30 | amathis | but cvs is active |
| 05:46.42 | amathis | only few files |
| 05:46.43 | amathis | don't bother. |
| 05:46.45 | Patlabor221 | it work? |
| 05:46.46 | Patlabor221 | oh |
| 05:46.52 | amathis | Patlabor221, well, I have my src code |
| 05:47.02 | amathis | Patlabor221, I just have to make a install and more flexible |
| 05:47.08 | amathis | I made it specifically for my site |
| 05:47.16 | amathis | so now I have to go back and add more variabes |
| 05:47.21 | amathis | and db support |
| 05:47.27 | *** join/#bzflag Mikkel (~sthurber@h0003931ddb8c.ne.client2.attbi.com) |
| 05:48.28 | sgk284 | Patlabor221: do you what the new line character for irc? |
| 05:48.39 | sgk284 | is forirc* |
| 05:48.46 | sgk284 | ugh you know what i mean :) |
| 05:48.55 | Patlabor221 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:48.58 | Patlabor221 | it's 2 characters |
| 05:49.03 | sgk284 | oh ok, thx |
| 05:49.20 | Patlabor221 | if your using the lib you should NEVER have to use it tho |
| 05:49.20 | Patlabor221 | the lib will |
| 05:49.22 | sgk284 | hmm... |
| 05:49.29 | sgk284 | \n isn't working :/ |
| 05:49.31 | Patlabor221 | sendtexttoserver |
| 05:49.39 | Patlabor221 | cus it's not \n |
| 05:49.42 | Patlabor221 | its \r\n |
| 05:49.48 | Patlabor221 | what method are you calling to send? |
| 05:49.58 | sgk284 | client.sendmessage |
| 05:50.30 | Patlabor221 | you don't need to do the line ending |
| 05:50.33 | Patlabor221 | it'll put it on for you |
| 05:50.37 | Patlabor221 | just send it the line |
| 05:50.50 | Patlabor221 | and the target |
| 05:51.09 | sgk284 | but the message is multi line formatted :/ its like 5 lines, just send 5 messages? |
| 05:51.15 | Patlabor221 | yus |
| 05:51.17 | Patlabor221 | yes |
| 05:51.20 | sgk284 | k |
| 05:51.23 | Patlabor221 | cus it's more then just the line terminator |
| 05:51.29 | Patlabor221 | there is header info |
| 05:51.37 | Patlabor221 | you would need the PRIVMSG and all that for each line too |
| 05:51.48 | sgk284 | oh ok |
| 05:51.50 | Patlabor221 | I'll do spliting soon |
| 05:52.26 | sgk284 | sounds good |
| 05:52.34 | learner | ooh, neat.. embedded wiki http://www.cmfboard.org/documentation/howto/ |
| 05:52.52 | sgk284 | i only ask because i'm sending a tic tac toe board and thought maybe i didnt have to send a new message for each line |
| 05:53.14 | Patlabor221 | you allways want to let the lib do it's thing, as if the unerlying protocoll changes to irclite or something it'll still work |
| 05:53.23 | Patlabor221 | just do a loop of messages |
| 05:53.27 | Patlabor221 | use the tokenize to split it |
| 05:53.34 | Patlabor221 | based on your /ns |
| 05:53.42 | sgk284 | yea thats what i'm gonna wind up doing |
| 05:53.44 | Patlabor221 | then make your own "send multi" |
| 05:54.28 | sgk284 | while we are on the subject, i've never seen a tic tac toe bot before, think this board looks okay? : |
| 05:54.33 | sgk284 | ......... |
| 05:54.37 | sgk284 | : _|_|_ : |
| 05:54.39 | sgk284 | : _|_|_ : |
| 05:54.43 | sgk284 | : | | : |
| 05:54.48 | sgk284 | :.......: |
| 05:54.50 | sgk284 | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:54.58 | lan56 | it looks perfect |
| 05:55.03 | Patlabor221 | bottom looks odd |
| 05:55.09 | amathis | what are the links for libIrc Patlabor221 ? |
| 05:55.11 | sgk284 | yea thats what i was thinking :/ |
| 05:55.17 | sgk284 | lan56: thanks:) |
| 05:55.24 | Patlabor221 | links? |
| 05:55.27 | learner | perhaps no box |
| 05:55.37 | lan56 | np, I was just saying that to make you feel good anyway ;) jk |
| 05:55.46 | amathis | Patlabor221, yah |
| 05:55.51 | amathis | Patlabor221, what links need to be on the page |
| 05:55.58 | amathis | Home, Community etc. etc |
| 05:55.58 | sgk284 | learner: at first it didn't have a box,but when the channel has other people talking, it really helps distinguish it |
| 05:56.29 | Patlabor221 | oh, I dono |
| 05:56.33 | amathis | learner, ? |
| 05:56.34 | Patlabor221 | at least a downloads |
| 05:56.36 | Patlabor221 | a home |
| 05:56.37 | learner | sgk284, perhaps try a 1-line tic-tac-toe board? |
| 05:56.38 | Patlabor221 | a doc |
| 05:56.42 | lan56 | sgk284: one idea for having the markers displayed would be to send a mark underlined, that way maintaining the underscore but add a marker |
| 05:56.43 | Patlabor221 | and something that links to the boards |
| 05:56.57 | lan56 | x |
| 05:56.58 | sgk284 | learner: have an example? |
| 05:57.02 | lan56 | like that :) |
| 05:57.18 | sgk284 | cool |
| 05:57.22 | sgk284 | howd you do that? :) |
| 05:57.22 | learner | | | | X | | | O | | | X | O | | |
| 05:57.28 | learner | something like that |
| 05:57.37 | lan56 | %Ux%U |
| 05:57.51 | amathis | %bx |
| 05:57.54 | amathis | hrmph |
| 05:57.54 | learner | or even [ | | ] [ | | ] [ | | ] |
| 05:58.02 | amathis | |
| 05:58.08 | amathis | test |
| 05:58.13 | lan56 | x%/U |
| 05:58.14 | sgk284 | learner: looks interesting, i'll play around with the idea |
| 05:58.18 | lan56 | nm :) |
| 05:58.30 | learner | easy enough to understand and play still |
| 05:58.31 | sgk284 | test |
| 05:58.45 | sgk284 | test |
| 05:58.48 | sgk284 | neat |
| 05:58.50 | learner | then you could prefix each line with a game number, and have multiple going simultaneous |
| 05:59.13 | sgk284 | yea |
| 05:59.37 | lan56 | %Itest%Itesttest |
| 05:59.46 | lan56 | italics don't work :) |
| 05:59.52 | sgk284 | heh |
| 06:00.09 | sgk284 | have any other tricks up your sleeve? |
| 06:00.43 | lan56 | lets see :) |
| 06:01.11 | sgk284 | i worked today and spent a large portion of it writing down tic tac toe algorithms heh |
| 06:01.20 | lan56 | how good is the ai? |
| 06:01.32 | sgk284 | in the first 5 moves assuming X moves first, he has 120 possible ways to win |
| 06:01.46 | sgk284 | right now the bot places randomly just so there is something there, it will get better |
| 06:02.21 | lan56 | tic tac toe, when played with two brilliant players, is difficult to not get a draw |
| 06:02.29 | sgk284 | the 120 ways to win thing may not be completely accurate, i was kind of multitasking and writing these number out on a sticky at the same time |
| 06:02.44 | sgk284 | :) |
| 06:03.23 | sgk284 | tic tac toe by its nature i believe is very biased to a draw |
| 06:04.19 | sgk284 | i'll work out the AI details later, i was just trying to get some rough numbers |
| 06:04.43 | lan56 | ai has always been a fascinating and I'd say most worthwhile and interesting topic when ai is programmed to do something in record time that a human would take several times as long to do, as well as more stupidly |
| 06:05.52 | amathis | ok |
| 06:05.57 | amathis | anyone wanna see the site so far? |
| 06:05.59 | sgk284 | tic tac toe lends itself well to math:) |
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| 06:06.13 | sgk284 | amathis: sure:) |
| 06:06.18 | amathis | om |
| 06:06.28 | lan56 | I'd say the neatest and most interesting programs are the ones that solve or aid a human problem in a way that a human couldn't do or would take too much effort to do |
| 06:06.39 | sgk284 | lan56: definitly |
| 06:07.05 | lan56 | shows the brilliance of technology and what it can do better than anything else I can think of |
| 06:07.30 | sgk284 | lan56: all apart of evolution, assuming you believe in such a thing :) |
| 06:08.12 | lan56 | I believe in evolution and enhancing technology |
| 06:09.50 | sgk284 | nevermind my AI heh i think google may have just helped me out better |
| 06:10.07 | sgk284 | to quote "A simple algorithm for winning tic-tac-toe was produced by a group of M.I.T. students in the mod 70's." |
| 06:10.39 | lan56 | the mod 70's? are those the alternate years? :) |
| 06:10.45 | learner | you can solve every possible combination of tic-tac-toe in mere fractions of a second |
| 06:11.06 | learner | there's no way to "win" the game really unless someone makes a mistake |
| 06:11.18 | sgk284 | learner: yea thats why its fun to program it:) |
| 06:11.20 | lan56 | or there are an uneven number of squares |
| 06:11.24 | lan56 | like 5 |
| 06:11.58 | sgk284 | its not like chess heh, i mean 9 squares, each square can have 3 values |
| 06:12.04 | sgk284 | not complicated |
| 06:12.17 | learner | 3D tic-tac-toe can be challenging to the humans |
| 06:12.20 | purple_cow | it's interesting because it's simple? that's stupid :P |
| 06:12.38 | purple_cow | 4d is tricky :) |
| 06:13.12 | sgk284 | purple_cow: well programming isnt the most fun thign in the world, but i came up with some interesting equations today while at work |
| 06:13.26 | sgk284 | programming tic tac toe that is* |
| 06:13.58 | learner | sgk284, you can do that 1-liner thing and output 3 lines for 3d ttt |
| 06:13.58 | lan56 | I'd say a brilliant program would be a program to solve an equation, find the value of x without being told, like a minimal example is x+5=10 and solve for x |
| 06:14.18 | lan56 | of course, in record time and accuracy |
| 06:14.42 | sgk284 | learner: i think i have to comprehend 3d ttt first heh |
| 06:14.44 | learner | x=¼ |
| 06:14.48 | sgk284 | how do you win? still 3 in a row? |
| 06:14.52 | learner | yes |
| 06:15.03 | purple_cow | 3d requires a 4x4x4 grid |
| 06:15.05 | sgk284 | hmm... sounds interesting |
| 06:15.07 | lan56 | x+5=10 x==5 |
| 06:15.09 | purple_cow | otherwise the first player is guaranteed a win |
| 06:15.21 | amathis | o |
| 06:15.22 | amathis | ok |
| 06:15.24 | amathis | here it is: |
| 06:15.57 | amathis | wait.. |
| 06:15.58 | amathis | crap |
| 06:16.00 | amathis | hold on |
| 06:16.04 | sgk284 | purple_cow: i believe 2d ttt will always draw unless someone makes a bad move, or am i mixing games? |
| 06:16.29 | purple_cow | sgk284: if both players play correctly, 2d will always be a draw |
| 06:16.33 | darth_mall | sgk284: you could say that about most games |
| 06:16.37 | darth_mall | I could say the same about chess |
| 06:16.38 | learner | purple_cow, but that's what makes it fun |
| 06:16.39 | learner | http://www.arcadetown.com/3dtictactoe/playgame.asp |
| 06:16.53 | darth_mall | sgk284: try taking a chess program and pit two computers against each other at the same skill level |
| 06:17.14 | amathis | http://amathis.net/libIrcW |
| 06:17.19 | amathis | there is it so far. |
| 06:17.27 | learner | purple_cow, you can also limit the rules in 3d like that board.. no horizontals down |
| 06:17.58 | sgk284 | darth_mall: i believe chess has been shown to be biased towards a check mate, i.e. if both people randmly move, someone will check mate the other, but if both players make perfect moves each time the games never ends |
| 06:18.35 | darth_mall | sgk284: chess is biased towards white |
| 06:18.38 | purple_cow | sgk284: you weren't asking about moving randomly, you were asking about perfect moves |
| 06:18.45 | lan56 | I shall be taking this topic further, being a high school 2nd chess tournament winner back in my day :) |
| 06:18.52 | lan56 | err, 2nd place |
| 06:18.53 | darth_mall | seriously, have two computers play each other |
| 06:18.55 | sgk284 | yea i know, jsut throwing a tid bit of info out there:) |
| 06:19.18 | sgk284 | i assume you did this in gnu chess? |
| 06:19.29 | amathis | learner, Patlabor221 http://amathis.net/libIrcW |
| 06:19.35 | lan56 | darth_mall: actually, the same program can play against itself, just take turns |
| 06:19.53 | darth_mall | lan56: what? |
| 06:19.54 | sgk284 | darth_mall: that was nuts |
| 06:19.58 | sgk284 | i just did it |
| 06:20.13 | learner | amathis, looking better |
| 06:20.21 | sgk284 | noone check mated yet, but the first 20 moves or so went by in abotu 2.5 seconds |
| 06:20.21 | learner | the laptop is out of place :P |
| 06:20.24 | lan56 | darth_mall: instead of hooking up two computers to play a two player game using AI, just have the same program take turns |
| 06:20.35 | amathis | learner, ok, that beep got me out of bed... now I am going BACK to bed.. |
| 06:20.35 | darth_mall | lan56: I didn't say network computers |
| 06:20.37 | sgk284 | lan56: just use gnu chess |
| 06:20.43 | learner | and menu is too far from focus.. |
| 06:20.45 | lan56 | ahh, nm then :) |
| 06:20.54 | learner | amathis, k, night |
| 06:21.14 | sgk284 | amathis: i like it, except the laptop |
| 06:21.25 | amathis | what is wrong with it!? |
| 06:21.37 | sgk284 | lol just a littel awkward |
| 06:21.50 | amathis | it gives character. |
| 06:21.51 | amathis | :D |
| 06:21.54 | sgk284 | wasnt expecting it there as i was scrollign down, seemed out of place |
| 06:22.04 | sgk284 | maybe i'm just tired:) |
| 06:22.22 | learner | amathis, it's good, just wrong location i think? swap it with the title, and shift menu to right-justif.? |
| 06:22.56 | amathis | learner, you do realize that I am extremely curious, and everytime it beeps, I have to get up. |
| 06:22.57 | amathis | :D |
| 06:23.08 | learner | amathis, i would never have guessed |
| 06:23.19 | amathis | ugh |
| 06:23.20 | sgk284 | heh |
| 06:23.20 | amathis | bedtime. |
| 06:23.26 | learner | amathis, meep meep .. :) |
| 06:23.33 | amathis | heh.. |
| 06:23.39 | amathis | I almost turned my monitor off. |
| 06:23.49 | sgk284 | amathis: time to wake up! |
| 06:23.54 | sgk284 | ;) |
| 06:23.55 | learner | better turn off your speakers too |
| 06:24.00 | sgk284 | heh |
| 06:24.04 | amathis | learner, it isn't speaker that does it >_< |
| 06:24.09 | amathis | it is computer noise |
| 06:24.11 | sgk284 | lol! |
| 06:24.14 | learner | too easy/tempting to abuse, amathis :) |
| 06:24.18 | amathis | :D |
| 06:24.19 | sgk284 | this could be fun |
| 06:24.30 | sgk284 | i'm kidding of course:) |
| 06:24.30 | amathis | well, I can always turn off beeping for the night. |
| 06:25.02 | amathis | night, |
| 06:25.29 | lan56 | gnight learner |
| 06:25.35 | sgk284 | the gnu chess AI is pretty good, or i'm just really bad heh |
| 06:25.46 | sgk284 | gnight everyone who is leaving |
| 06:28.02 | learner | g'night folks |
| 06:28.07 | sgk284 | leaner: night |
| 06:28.16 | sgk284 | learner* |
| 06:29.16 | sgk284 | Patlabor221: you around? |
| 06:31.10 | *** join/#bzflag ElectricElf (debian-tor@166.70.93.2) |
| 06:32.43 | lan56 | he is, he's just ignoring you :) |
| 06:32.50 | sgk284 | lol |
| 06:33.00 | sgk284 | if you are, its just a quick question:) |
| 06:34.13 | sgk284 | the question being, before i go digging through libirc, is there some specified time limit between message sends? |
| 06:34.35 | sgk284 | it seems to be one message per second |
| 06:39.21 | sgk284 | thats one way to avoid the question ;) |
| 06:40.06 | lan56 | the answer probably would've been to look at the source and figure it out yourself :) |
| 06:40.13 | sgk284 | heh yea |
| 06:40.18 | lan56 | knowing that fella |
| 06:40.44 | darth_mall | sounds like a good answer to me |
| 06:40.46 | learner | no, there's no time limit |
| 06:40.56 | learner | it will do what needs to happen |
| 06:41.51 | learner | it will still only relay as fast as the irc network accepts, which is usually about 1/sec |
| 06:42.51 | sgk284 | learner: okay thanks |
| 06:44.18 | lan56 | darth_mall: it could be a good answer sometimes, but it is time consuming and when a person right in front of you probably knows the answer, it can save a lot of time and trouble if you don't know things as well as a person who does |
| 06:44.31 | lan56 | customer service and a help desk at businesses is an example of this |
| 06:46.00 | darth_mall | lan56: yeah, but you *pay* for customer service |
| 06:46.22 | darth_mall | grep is your friend |
| 06:46.50 | lan56 | not always do you pay for it, take asking a question about service for example |
| 06:46.56 | lan56 | just walking into a building to the front desk |
| 06:47.16 | darth_mall | lan56: those people are payed |
| 06:47.30 | lan56 | but the customer doesn't need to pay |
| 06:48.20 | darth_mall | lan56: the point is that the people answering your question is paid to answer it |
| 06:48.31 | darth_mall | whether or not *you* in particular have given them money |
| 06:48.46 | sgk284 | lets not fight:) |
| 06:48.55 | learner | 11GB of imagery so far.. |
| 06:49.03 | darth_mall | learner: yikes |
| 06:49.36 | learner | nah, that's not too bad |
| 06:49.48 | sgk284 | darth_mall: i see what you saying, the whole give a man a fish.. teach a man to fish kind of argument, but to be honest i had better things to do then look through the code, when a short message could have handled it better by someone already very familiar with it |
| 06:49.49 | learner | that's over just over 100 pictures |
| 06:49.52 | lan56 | indeed there is no obligation, even for paid people, to answer questions, it is not illegal, but good business and to increase productivity a question is answered when a person that knows the answer is asked, and feels like giving the asker the answer |
| 06:49.57 | learner | almost 150 |
| 06:50.28 | darth_mall | lan56: if you work in customer service, and consistently don't answer questions, you are fired |
| 06:50.30 | sgk284 | learner: are you the one that as talkign about his new server earlier? |
| 06:50.31 | learner | the working image sizes for some of those is going to grow to 500MB-1GB each |
| 06:50.33 | darth_mall | that seems pretty obligatory to me |
| 06:50.47 | lan56 | darth_mall: will you die from it? |
| 06:51.00 | darth_mall | it's possible |
| 06:51.04 | darth_mall | if you don't get another job |
| 06:51.06 | learner | sgk284, yes? |
| 06:51.08 | darth_mall | then you can't buy food |
| 06:51.10 | darth_mall | or pay for shelter |
| 06:51.40 | darth_mall | I feel I should also point out that obligations can extend beyond things which are required for living |
| 06:51.50 | lan56 | but it is your choice to not look for a job, nothing related to answering questions |
| 06:52.01 | darth_mall | who said you didn't look? |
| 06:52.05 | learner | JBdiGriz, just don't get fingerprints on my platters :) |
| 06:52.08 | darth_mall | I said you couldn't find one, that doesn't imply not looking |
| 06:52.23 | JBdiGriz | then stop hugging them ;P |
| 06:52.30 | lan56 | find one, get one, look for one, use your noggin man, you know what I mean |
| 06:52.37 | learner | oh, I'm careful :) |
| 06:52.40 | sgk284 | learner: just curious how your impression of the company is thus far? never heard of them, that deal sounds too good to be true, but i am kind of in the market so i'm curious |
| 06:52.52 | darth_mall | lan56: actually, I don't |
| 06:53.06 | learner | sgk284, way too soon to tell -- I'll know better in like 6 months |
| 06:53.09 | lan56 | then we can drop this entire thing |
| 06:53.19 | lan56 | go figure out what I mean yourself |
| 06:53.32 | learner | yes please .. drop it |
| 06:53.35 | sgk284 | learner: k |
| 06:55.22 | learner | JBdiGriz, and it's only half a terabyte :P |
| 06:55.43 | learner | actually only a quarter right this second.. the other quarter is sitting on my desk uninstalled still |
| 06:56.31 | learner | it I wasn't oh so fond and needy of RAID, it'd be a terabyte |
| 06:57.16 | learner | w00t access restored |
| 07:12.40 | *** join/#bzflag tegan (~lyra@dsl017-034-201.sfo4.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
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| 09:14.21 | lan56 | jeez, culver city is such a century city wannabe |
| 09:20.23 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (~KTL@kn-res.kuleuven.net) |
| 10:25.54 | *** join/#bzflag gina (~gigi@176.57-136-217.adsl.skynet.be) |
| 10:27.47 | gina | hello |
| 10:30.43 | KTL | allokes :-) |
| 10:31.03 | KTL | ah, die cvs, ik heb het maar ik mis nog een package denk ik |
| 10:31.21 | KTL | "gl is not fully available" --> disabling client generation |
| 10:31.49 | KTL | dus ik zoeken achter alle software die ik zou kunnen mankeren, het heeft niet echt geholpen |
| 10:32.29 | KTL | ahja, die screenshots die je doorstuurde (die achteraf bleek, zoals verwacht eigenlijk, gewoon in de titel van # bzflag stonden :-) ) ... |
| 10:32.38 | KTL | in dezelfde dir staan er nog prentjes |
| 10:32.49 | gina | KTL: need to install the dev |
| 10:32.53 | gina | of opengl |
| 10:33.20 | KTL | mmm mja ik zal zien of ik nog meer devs kan doen, maar daar lette ik dus wel op |
| 10:33.21 | gina | I had the same :) |
| 10:33.33 | KTL | http://members.rogers.com/trepan/screenies/aztec.jpg |
| 10:33.37 | KTL | http://members.rogers.com/trepan/screenies.html |
| 10:35.23 | KTL | en ik hoor dat rendering sneller zou moeten zijn |
| 10:36.03 | gina | yup |
| 10:36.26 | gina | rofl |
| 10:37.21 | gina | moet ik het inpakken of opsturen per taxipost? |
| 10:37.31 | KTL | met wat zout graag |
| 10:37.34 | gina | lol |
| 10:38.00 | KTL | http://www.bootleggers.us/images/gta/Duesenberg.jpg <--hiermee |
| 10:39.56 | gina | I think it's freeglut-devel and xfree86-devel |
| 10:40.40 | gina | XFree86-devel |
| 10:40.54 | gina | and ncurses-devel for the bzadmin |
| 10:41.18 | gina | you got a pic of my car ?! |
| 10:41.53 | gina | bbl |
| 10:44.12 | KTL | it was nvidia-glx-dev |
| 11:33.37 | KTL | maybe i simply buy a new graphics card, for bzflag, this becomes a bit to difficult for a gf3 |
| 11:36.48 | trepan | KTL: i've got a gf3 =) those maps are supposed to be hard on the gfx card, makes it easier to tell well there have been speedups :) |
| 11:37.02 | KTL | ah :-) |
| 11:37.32 | KTL | where did the inca temple come from? |
| 11:37.33 | trepan | i would like a new card myself, maybe a 6800 |
| 11:37.45 | KTL | i guess it isn't build for bzflag |
| 11:37.58 | trepan | from a 3DS model, i've got the link for it somewhere... |
| 11:38.18 | trepan | the balloons, spaceships, legomen, are all 3ds models too |
| 11:38.34 | KTL | the script to convert 3ds to bzw, that's good |
| 11:39.58 | trepan | on the really big worlds, it makes sense to hit 'F3' |
| 11:40.13 | trepan | for gfx testing, the radar still needs to be optimized a lot |
| 11:40.19 | KTL | good, from this version on it 'll be possible to make people really crazy :-) |
| 11:40.20 | trepan | F3 disables it for testing |
| 11:40.33 | KTL | indeed, radar was terrible in the temple complex |
| 11:41.03 | trepan | oh ya, drops me from 90 FPS to < 20 in the middle |
| 11:41.43 | KTL | and maybe maps could be saved automatically, so that each client has its own cache/collection, because that temple takes too much time |
| 11:41.57 | trepan | two things are being done about that |
| 11:41.58 | KTL | 90??? it was 200 before not? |
| 11:42.14 | trepan | 1. there is a client side cache, even 1.10.x has it i think |
| 11:42.32 | KTL | yes but after a client restart it's gone |
| 11:42.32 | trepan | 2. tupone's making it so that the client can download with http |
| 11:42.49 | trepan | the bzfs d/l algo is horribly slow |
| 11:43.10 | KTL | mmm the server tells the client the url of the file on http, a second server is needed then ? |
| 11:43.17 | trepan | hehe, the cache may be a bit broken at the moment ;) |
| 11:43.23 | KTL | mmm :-) |
| 11:44.01 | trepan | KTL, yup second server. it's also good for people like me, with just a cable connection, but an ISP http server |
| 11:44.26 | trepan | so I can put maps on the ISP bandwidth, and not have the map download effect my miny server |
| 11:44.50 | trepan | ? |
| 11:45.09 | KTL | that's how much slower it goes for me |
| 11:45.23 | KTL | around 300 + fps |
| 11:45.54 | trepan | you've got a gf3, and you're getting 300+ fps? on which map, what settings? |
| 11:47.11 | KTL | (strange things happen wiht my fps) |
| 11:47.59 | trepan | you'll usually get the highest fps when looking away from the map in a corner |
| 11:48.17 | *** join/#bzflag RoMy (~none@cs78255253.pp.htv.fi) |
| 11:48.45 | KTL | it is better now |
| 11:51.21 | KTL | aha i got it |
| 11:51.40 | KTL | it was on bryjen.bzflag.org |
| 11:52.14 | KTL | on on on Best Near, High on on |
| 11:53.43 | KTL | i can easely get 240+there, and i got 300+ too |
| 11:54.55 | KTL | not for me, and my fps there is around 124 |
| 11:56.08 | KTL | wow it seems to make a big difference if i work windowed or not, the bryjen-server in fullscreen was around 100 fps |
| 11:56.26 | KTL | and in a window 240 |
| 11:57.52 | KTL | mmm what happens with the screen-size in the configuration when the client is started with -window ? |
| 11:58.01 | trepan | hmm, in a fullscreen size window, i get about the same as fullscreen |
| 11:58.23 | KTL | because my config resolution is very high, and the window was very small |
| 11:58.39 | trepan | i think it defaults to a 640x480 window size, but i'm not really sure |
| 11:58.40 | KTL | so i think he is resizing it somewhere |
| 11:58.52 | KTL | and my config is around the double of that |
| 11:59.40 | trepan | if you've got SDL on linux, you can also resize the window with your window manager (if you go into input settings, and change 'confine mouse' to no) |
| 12:01.30 | KTL | it's true: the smaller the window the higher the fps |
| 12:01.37 | KTL | freedom for my mouse! |
| 12:02.17 | *** join/#bzflag borbak (~c3e4e43a@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 12:02.23 | borbak | hi all |
| 12:02.29 | borbak | who can help to me? |
| 12:02.37 | borbak | ki tud segaíteni? |
| 12:02.45 | borbak | segíteni* |
| 12:03.13 | *** join/#bzflag sbo134 (~c3e4e43a@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 12:03.25 | sbo134 | who can help to me? |
| 12:03.38 | sbo134 | plz help to me! |
| 12:03.59 | sbo134 | who r in????? |
| 12:04.00 | KTL | maybe someone can answer if you tell about the problem :-) |
| 12:04.20 | sbo134 | i can't shoot if i shoot then it's boot me...why? |
| 12:04.50 | KTL | is your udp turned on? |
| 12:05.06 | sbo134 | where can download the update? |
| 12:05.25 | sbo134 | and what is the file's name? |
| 12:06.03 | KTL | euhm check at options > udp network connection = on |
| 12:06.18 | KTL | the only thing i can think of |
| 12:06.48 | sbo134 | can u say an url |
| 12:06.51 | sbo134 | ? |
| 12:07.52 | sbo134 | how where can dl the update |
| 12:08.11 | KTL | try http://bzflag.sourceforge.net/wiki/Download |
| 12:08.22 | sbo134 | and there what file? |
| 12:09.21 | KTL | why do you think there is an update? there are only newer versions of the program |
| 12:09.54 | sbo134 | k |
| 12:10.06 | KTL | trepan_away: playing with a maximized window can have a lowef fps then playing fullscreen :-) |
| 12:13.30 | sbo134 | but whta is the file name plz |
| 12:15.09 | KTL | everything is mirrored, multiple servers serve it, you'll have to choose a server (near you) |
| 12:17.31 | prop | does anyone happen to know how much does a bzflag server require bandwidth if there are for example 10 players? |
| 12:18.18 | KTL | http://bzflag.bz/usage/ |
| 12:18.28 | prop | oh, didn't notice that, thanks :) |
| 12:18.36 | KTL | :-) |
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| 13:59.46 | GenRommel | x |
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| 14:51.49 | Pimpinella | prop: the bandwidth depands also much to the type of server. it increases with each additional shot, with superflags and jumping... |
| 14:53.51 | prop | Pimpinella, i know :) |
| 14:53.57 | Pimpinella | since bandwith goes somewhat exponentially with the number of players on the server it is hard to know how much bandwidth a specific configuration uses |
| 14:54.51 | Pimpinella | i believe hepcat will use probably only a third at 20 players than secretplace |
| 14:55.00 | Pimpinella | does |
| 14:57.16 | prop | well i run a 3 shot, 10 players max server with a small map so it shouldn't take too much bandwidth |
| 15:01.11 | learner | what's your connection bandwidth? |
| 15:01.18 | learner | outbound |
| 15:01.58 | prop | 1Mbps |
| 15:02.26 | learner | yeah, that should be fine |
| 15:12.09 | Chestal | in version 1.23 of include/TextUtils.h, the < operator for strings was introduced. Why's that? Is there some ancient compiler which cannot use use standard operator<? |
| 15:14.51 | *** join/#bzflag lovebug (~spooky@dsl-hkigw1h49.dial.inet.fi) |
| 15:17.46 | Chestal | learner: do you see any reason for that < operator? Also, I'd rather remove that string_util class and put all those functions which are in or out of this class into a namespace instead |
| 15:18.07 | Chestal | learner: and maybe put most of the actual code into a .cc file in src/common |
| 15:22.53 | learner | I don't think I've noticed the < operator |
| 15:23.00 | trepan | anyone interested in seeing a varying wind effect on the grounded flags, and maybe having the tank velocity effect those on tanks? |
| 15:23.15 | trepan | i'd use experimental quality setting to try it |
| 15:23.17 | learner | namespace vs. class scope would be fine, though |
| 15:23.34 | learner | Chestal: .cc file? :) |
| 15:24.12 | trepan | the downside is that flags wouldn't be as visible as using the billboard technique |
| 15:24.23 | learner | Chestal: i think most of that was put into the header to help encourage in-lining -- i'd be worried about performance unless someone profiles before/after |
| 15:24.52 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/src/common/ (OSFile.cxx Country.cxx): typo |
| 15:25.23 | Chestal | learner: well, at least things like tokenize should move into implementaion file, it's not small |
| 15:26.19 | Chestal | learner: I also notice functions like isWhitespace etc. which already exist in ctype.h? |
| 15:26.54 | learner | they were written more as a curiosity |
| 15:27.16 | Chestal | whatever, I'll try to decide which functions should stay as inline |
| 15:28.18 | learner | that's more like it |
| 15:28.23 | learner | ~ww |
| 15:30.04 | Chestal | hmm, do we put doxygen-like function comments in header files or implementation files or both? |
| 15:30.22 | learner | header files |
| 15:30.52 | learner | there are like 3 classes that have doxygen comments .. |
| 15:31.09 | learner | done |
| 15:32.49 | Chestal | currently, it's somewhat inconsistent |
| 15:33.40 | learner | you can put them in the implementation too -- just depends on if any more detail is needed that's separate from the interface |
| 15:34.35 | Chestal | simple duplication is bad though, too dangerous that they might get out of synch |
| 15:35.41 | learner | oh, they shouldn't be duplicated.. |
| 15:35.58 | learner | it's supposed to be for some implementation detail |
| 15:36.15 | learner | the status of the doxygen stuff is woefully incomplete |
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| 15:37.42 | Chestal | learner: for now, I just don't want to make things worse :-) |
| 15:43.45 | FredCods | woooow.. bzflag-cvs is great |
| 15:44.52 | FredCods | one thing seem to have changed (i mean visually, i know a billion things changed :)). Point of view is lower, right ? |
| 15:53.49 | Chestal | not AFAIK |
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| 16:14.17 | KTL | i don't know why, i was able to use the cvs to see the aztek map, but now ... i think my system kills the client, a memory leak? |
| 16:14.44 | KTL | no can't be, no swap is used, |
| 16:14.58 | FredCods | pff.. 10 minutes to load the aztec map :) |
| 16:15.30 | FredCods | argh, not cached :( |
| 16:18.17 | KTL | do the other one! :-) the ricotest is fantastic |
| 16:19.30 | Chestal | the default max cache size is rather small |
| 16:21.15 | FredCods | hmm.. i can't stop map downloading (to switch to another server) ? |
| 16:21.27 | FredCods | s/ing// |
| 16:25.39 | KTL | but? don't you have the list? |
| 16:26.00 | KTL | the server list works well, and it is not that one of the normal clients |
| 16:26.47 | FredCods | i mean when client start to download a world, and if i want to stop and switch to another server, i can't. |
| 16:27.19 | KTL | euhm that aztek map is more then 10 times bigger then all the others, so you can switch fast enough |
| 16:27.27 | KTL | between the others |
| 16:27.52 | FredCods | i'm not sure i'm clear :) |
| 16:28.28 | KTL | trepan.homelinux.net:8421, voila |
| 16:28.33 | FredCods | here (in France, on a DSL connection) downloading the map take 5 or 10 minutes. But, i can't stop this process ! |
| 16:28.50 | KTL | euhm for every map in that list?? |
| 16:28.58 | FredCods | if i don't want to wait for the end of the download, and switch to another server, bzflag client don't allow me to stop the download. |
| 16:29.13 | FredCods | i don't have any problem loading the map for any server :) |
| 16:29.13 | KTL | for me that aztec map takes too long too, the others not |
| 16:29.21 | FredCods | yeah |
| 16:29.34 | FredCods | we agree on that, but it's not my point |
| 16:29.41 | FredCods | can you stop the download before 100% ? |
| 16:30.02 | KTL | Chestal: can we stop it? :-) |
| 16:30.13 | learner | ctrl-alt-del ;) |
| 16:30.23 | Chestal | KTL: I am not familiar with that part of the code, but it would be nice to make it stoppable, should be possible |
| 16:53.38 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman_ (~tuckerm@bc186118.bendcable.com) |
| 16:53.49 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/ (4 files in 3 dirs): try to make std::string() vs. std::string() more consistent |
| 16:54.13 | Chestal | oopsa, lost those quotes |
| 17:02.12 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/ (7 files in 3 dirs): |
| 17:02.12 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: make string_util a namespace instead of a class; move other utility functions |
| 17:02.12 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: into that new ns; add implementation file, move longer functions there; made |
| 17:02.12 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: some minor modifications to the implementation; new file src/common/TextUtil.cxx |
| 17:02.12 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: has still to be added to non-autoconf builds |
| 17:02.28 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): |
| 17:02.29 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: make string_util a namespace instead of a class; move other utility functions |
| 17:02.29 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: into that new ns; add implementation file, move longer functions there; made |
| 17:02.29 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: some minor modifications to the implementation; new file src/common/TextUtil.cxx |
| 17:02.29 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: has still to be added to non-autoconf builds |
| 17:03.04 | *** join/#bzflag Memnarch (~c4281e7c@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 17:06.41 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (bryjen@69-165-61-17.clvdoh.adelphia.net) |
| 17:07.46 | learner | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:08.06 | Chestal | the second should be std::string(""), but the quotes got lost because I'm stupid |
| 17:08.12 | learner | heh |
| 17:08.47 | *** join/#bzflag Fuddl (~fuddl@flups.saustall.busn.org) |
| 17:09.04 | Chestal | I created a new file src/common/TextUtils.cxx, someone please add it to Windows and MAC bullds or whatever needs it |
| 17:25.15 | learner | anyone object if I rename the namespace to match? |
| 17:25.17 | trepan | wsa just doing a mass BZDBCache update |
| 17:25.40 | trepan | i'll wait for you... |
| 17:25.43 | learner | :) |
| 17:26.36 | learner | renaming to make the namespace match the file name, s/string_util/TextUtils/g .. |
| 17:26.52 | trepan | stills peaves me that things like BZDB.eval(StateDatabase::BZDB_GRAVITY) still exists in the code for oft used variables |
| 17:27.11 | trepan | and worldsize, and the tank params |
| 17:27.15 | trepan | starting with those 5 |
| 17:28.20 | Chestal | learner: yes, matching names would probably be good |
| 17:28.42 | Chestal | trepan: years ;-) ago I thought of a more general way to access BZDB variables via a cache |
| 17:28.57 | trepan | who hasn't, i'm doing something about it |
| 17:28.58 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/ (35 files in 7 dirs): s/string_util/TextUtils/g making the utility namespace match his file name (oh lookie, 2-chars shorter even) |
| 17:28.59 | amathis | learner, what is usually inside a .raw? |
| 17:29.00 | Chestal | trepan: I never finished it because I was too lazy and there were some conceptual problems |
| 17:29.24 | learner | amathis, raw image data |
| 17:29.38 | Chestal | trepan: IIRC one problem was that we woudl probably need two callbackevents: one for textual change and one for chaneg when evaled |
| 17:30.14 | learner | amathis, often or probably most common is 3 interlaced byte channels (RGB) |
| 17:30.15 | Chestal | or stick with the latter and do callbacks too often maybe |
| 17:30.46 | trepan | Chestal: either way, it's not a difficult problem, just a nuissance |
| 17:30.50 | Chestal | I hope all compilers survived the string_util transition |
| 17:30.56 | scanline | there are a lot of different formats called .raw |
| 17:31.18 | Chestal | trepan: it's difficult to get it right conceptually |
| 17:31.35 | trepan | heh |
| 17:32.35 | Chestal | I wonder whether the SHotStats are very useful the way they are |
| 17:33.16 | Chestal | the most obvious problem I have with them is that it seems to count all kills as hits |
| 17:33.54 | *** part/#bzflag Memnarch (~c4281e7c@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 17:35.28 | *** join/#bzflag grandrew2 (~c24355e6@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 17:36.21 | grandrew2 | hi everybody! |
| 17:36.47 | bryjen | hmm. problems with to[lower|upper] |
| 17:37.07 | Chestal | ah, where? |
| 17:37.09 | grandrew2 | Does anybody know if it is possible to play internet bzflag being behind a proxy? |
| 17:37.17 | *** join/#bzflag Fuddl (~fuddl@flups.saustall.busn.org) |
| 17:37.35 | bryjen | In file included from ../../include/DrawablesManager.h:20, |
| 17:37.36 | bryjen | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:37.38 | bryjen | ../../include/TextUtils.h: In function `std::string TextUtils::tolower(const |
| 17:37.39 | bryjen | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:37.41 | bryjen | ../../include/TextUtils.h:43: `::tolower' undeclared (first use here) |
| 17:37.58 | Chestal | try std::tolower instead |
| 17:38.09 | bryjen | ah |
| 17:38.13 | Chestal | same for toupper a few lines down |
| 17:38.31 | Chestal | grandrew2: you need ability to send and recv IP packets transparently |
| 17:39.09 | bryjen | ../../include/TextUtils.h:43: `tolower' undeclared in namespace `std' |
| 17:39.25 | Chestal | uhm, hmm |
| 17:39.33 | Chestal | which compiler is that? |
| 17:39.41 | bryjen | gcc (GCC) 3.2.2 |
| 17:39.52 | bryjen | on slackware linux |
| 17:39.52 | Chestal | add #include <ctype.h> |
| 17:40.35 | orchid | ~x en de danger |
| 17:40.56 | grandrew2 | damn :) |
| 17:41.23 | bryjen | the include didn't help |
| 17:42.05 | Chestal | it should. Try rempoving 'std' again please |
| 17:43.04 | Chestal | alternatively, try std::tolower and #include <cctype> |
| 17:43.12 | Chestal | that is the way like it should be theoretically |
| 17:43.26 | bryjen | hmm. error on line 43 went away, same error farther down now |
| 17:43.52 | Chestal | it's there once for tolower and toupper |
| 17:44.38 | bryjen | multiple times, tolower |
| 17:44.50 | *** part/#bzflag grandrew2 (~c24355e6@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 17:45.01 | Chestal | hmm, I must read up on this, I think this is a more complex problem |
| 17:45.05 | bryjen | #include <cctype> fixed them all |
| 17:45.22 | Chestal | it stopped workign with 3.3, though :-) |
| 17:45.33 | Chestal | you using cctype and std::tolower? |
| 17:46.48 | bryjen | the only diff right now is added <cctype> |
| 17:47.09 | Chestal | can you try wheterh it works with std::tolower, too? |
| 17:47.20 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 17:47.21 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 17:48.04 | bryjen | yes. that works too |
| 17:48.31 | bryjen | hrm. or maybe not |
| 17:49.20 | Chestal | it could be that c++ offers overloads of that function, so it doesn't know whcih one to pick |
| 17:49.25 | bryjen | different problem now |
| 17:49.28 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 17:49.28 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 17:49.29 | learner | maybe I should have compiled first? |
| 17:49.46 | bryjen | ../../include/TextUtils.h:44: no matching function for call to `transform( |
| 17:50.02 | bryjen | one each in the tolower and toupper funcs |
| 17:50.39 | bryjen | big ugly std:: parameter lists |
| 17:51.13 | Chestal | yes, ok |
| 17:51.30 | learner | ahh, you namespaced the tolower/upper funcs? |
| 17:51.47 | learner | that'll break irix too, iirc |
| 17:52.27 | learner | _have_ to use cmath instead of math.h on that box if you want to namespace it |
| 17:53.07 | Chestal | well, in theory if one uses the c* headers, all functins should be in std AFAIK |
| 17:53.19 | Chestal | in practice, they will be in global ns and in std with most compilers |
| 17:53.37 | Chestal | the tolwoer problem is more complex, though. I think one reason is that there is a tolwoer for single characters and one for char* |
| 17:53.57 | Chestal | so it doesn't know which to pick when taking the function's address |
| 17:59.54 | Chestal | we can always not use transform there if we find no other solution |
| 18:01.36 | learner | Patlabor221, but but >>{:..-{}))))? |
| 18:01.51 | Patlabor221 | this far [-] |
| 18:02.03 | Chestal | bryjen: can you try (int(*)(int))std::tolower); please? |
| 18:03.13 | Chestal | but I am sure any of the supported compiler will break withoen version or the other |
| 18:04.35 | Chestal | Patlabor221: 3? :-) :-( ;-) ? |
| 18:04.59 | learner | :D |
| 18:05.12 | Patlabor221 | or maybe some php that deteects 2 in a row and dosn't let them post |
| 18:05.24 | Patlabor221 | "I'm sorry, you seem to be an idiot, come back later" |
| 18:05.41 | trepan | Patlabor221: heh, sounds reasonable/desirable |
| 18:05.47 | Chestal | the (int(*)(int))std::tolower solution works for g++ 3.3 and 3.4, but I suspect VC6 to fail |
| 18:06.35 | learner | Chestal, we could put configure.in checks in for unscoped tolower and family of functions |
| 18:07.48 | learner | then if available unscoped, we just use it .. maybe make it a TextUtils::tolower that "does the right thing" depending on availability |
| 18:08.19 | Chestal | learner: well, TextUtils::tolower could jsut be rewritten using a loop, then it would automatically pick the correct overload |
| 18:08.28 | Chestal | the std:: or not problem would remain,though |
| 18:08.47 | learner | hrm? loop? |
| 18:08.49 | Chestal | but I think if we use ctype.h, simply calling tolower must work then |
| 18:08.53 | learner | there's already a TextUtils:;tolower? |
| 18:08.55 | Chestal | instead of transform, do it yourself |
| 18:09.00 | Chestal | yes, for string |
| 18:09.11 | learner | ahh |
| 18:09.20 | Chestal | and it used the one for chars (or ints) |
| 18:10.03 | Chestal | it's probably the best solution for now, ctype.h and lop instead of transform |
| 18:10.04 | learner | could just overload it |
| 18:10.17 | Chestal | overload what? |
| 18:10.18 | learner | add another tolower(int) that does the system tolower() |
| 18:10.35 | Chestal | nah |
| 18:10.41 | learner | then convert all tolower's in the code to TextUtils::tolower |
| 18:10.41 | Chestal | that would just add more confusion |
| 18:11.09 | learner | *shrug* |
| 18:11.22 | Chestal | it woudl still have to be implemented |
| 18:11.32 | Chestal | the implemenation doesn't work right now on all 'our' compilers |
| 18:11.43 | Chestal | are you finsihed with your renaming? |
| 18:11.51 | Chestal | Idon't want to make the changes before that |
| 18:11.51 | learner | yep |
| 18:12.02 | learner | that was just a quick script/commit |
| 18:13.06 | learner | find . \( -name \*.cxx -or -name \*.h \) -exec perl -pi -e 's/string_util/TextUtils/g' {} \; |
| 18:13.09 | learner | for anyone curious |
| 18:16.37 | Chestal | I wonder whether the global operator< was there for some old compiler, too |
| 18:16.45 | Chestal | (for string) |
| 18:16.57 | *** join/#bzflag philpem (~philpem@81-86-139-157.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 18:17.48 | philpem | ~bzfquery philpem.dyndns.org:5156 |
| 18:18.39 | philpem | ~bzfquery philpem.dyndns.org:5156 |
| 18:19.31 | philpem | ~bzfquery polaris.philpem.me.uk |
| 18:19.41 | philpem | ~bzfquery polaris.philpem.me.uk:5156 |
| 18:20.34 | philpem | ~bzfquery polaris.philpem.me.uk:5156 |
| 18:20.50 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/ (25 files in 6 dirs): |
| 18:20.50 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: added worldSize, gravity, tankSpeed, tankWidth, & tankLength to BZDBCache |
| 18:20.50 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: (BZDBCache should go into a "inline getXXX() const" format for read-only) |
| 18:22.12 | Chestal | and another full recompile :-) |
| 18:23.02 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@82.84.96.113) |
| 18:24.42 | philpem | ~bzfquery polaris.philpem.me.uk:5156 |
| 18:24.54 | Tupone | hi orchid |
| 18:25.02 | orchid | salut Tupone |
| 18:25.37 | amathis | anyone played NwN before? |
| 18:25.47 | philpem | ~bzfquery polaris.philpem.me.uk:5156 |
| 18:25.49 | Aribeth | yes |
| 18:26.00 | amathis | Aribeth, is it worth $40? |
| 18:26.31 | Aribeth | I like the game a lot. its also availbe for linux as a download |
| 18:26.42 | amathis | Aribeth, with a cd key :/ |
| 18:27.13 | Patlabor221 | munchkin wants a sig pict.... I'll give em a sigpict ... bwahahahahahahah! |
| 18:28.25 | bryjen | uhm |
| 18:28.26 | learner | Chestal, fyi it all compiles for me |
| 18:28.51 | Chestal | learner: I will still commit the for loop version, shoud work on more platforms |
| 18:29.20 | learner | for loop version of transform? |
| 18:29.31 | Chestal | well, instead of transform, yes |
| 18:29.33 | learner | afaik, transform is working.. just not the ::tolower |
| 18:29.40 | amathis | Patlabor221, hey, ever played Nvn? |
| 18:29.51 | Chestal | learner: I can then call ::tolower |
| 18:29.52 | Patlabor221 | neverwinter nights? |
| 18:29.56 | Chestal | learner: and it will choose the correct one |
| 18:30.01 | amathis | Patlabor221, yeah |
| 18:30.02 | Chestal | learner: with transform, this is not the case |
| 18:30.06 | Patlabor221 | yeah ages ago |
| 18:30.24 | Chestal | learner: because it is passed as a function pointer and it does not know whcih ::tolower to choose |
| 18:30.27 | bryjen | #include <cctype> and (int(*)(int))std::tolower compiles here |
| 18:30.39 | amathis | Patlabor221, pretty cool? |
| 18:30.44 | Chestal | bryjen: ok, that compiles with all gcc versions obviously |
| 18:30.51 | Chestal | still, I think it is not worth the trouble |
| 18:32.12 | Patlabor221 | it's old |
| 18:32.22 | Patlabor221 | but yeah it was cool for about a week of play |
| 18:32.41 | amathis | Patlabor221, don't have to pay monthly. |
| 18:32.43 | amathis | >_< |
| 18:33.29 | Patlabor221 | no, it dosn't have a real online compoennt |
| 18:33.32 | Patlabor221 | that's why it got booring |
| 18:34.02 | bryjen | everybody wants to be subscription-based anymore. collecting rent forever |
| 18:34.20 | Patlabor221 | people will pay it so companys will charge it |
| 18:34.23 | amathis | WTF |
| 18:34.27 | amathis | my cursor is gone |
| 18:34.31 | amathis | I cannot find my mouse :D |
| 18:35.10 | bryjen | M$ and their "software assurance", online gaming, ... |
| 18:35.30 | amathis | :D |
| 18:37.00 | Patlabor221 | to much?---> http://sasami.bakadigital.com/temp/n00bsig.png |
| 18:37.18 | Patlabor221 | at least with the online gaming you get content updates |
| 18:37.29 | Patlabor221 | with COH they have allreay relesed 2 free expansions |
| 18:37.35 | Patlabor221 | added new zones and new stuff |
| 18:38.27 | bryjen | yeah, i can sorta see the game's point, someone's gotta pay for the servers and bandwidth at least. free feature upgrades are cool too :) |
| 18:39.17 | Patlabor221 | so should I set that sig for scorch? |
| 18:39.35 | orchid | heh |
| 18:41.53 | Patlabor221 | knowing my luck all the munchkins would want one |
| 18:43.09 | *** join/#bzflag amathis (~amathis@cpe-024-165-180-012.midsouth.rr.com) |
| 18:45.05 | learner | scorch? heh |
| 18:45.22 | bryjen | set him one that looks like a broken link in IE, then when he says he can't get it we can all say we see it fine and go on about how cool it is. |
| 18:45.32 | bryjen | ;) |
| 18:45.44 | Patlabor221 | he's the kid his mom sent the permision slip in for |
| 18:45.52 | Patlabor221 | heh |
| 18:45.57 | learner | Chestal, another answer would be to just not try and conflict with the global namespace |
| 18:46.26 | learner | who said our function had to be named tolower.. that's a bit inconvenient and potentially confusing |
| 18:46.30 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/include/TextUtils.h: rewrite std::string tolower/toupper, hopefully making all compilers happy |
| 18:46.39 | Tupone | any working platform that do not support threads? |
| 18:46.41 | Chestal | learner: no, the basic problem is that simply transform(,,,toupper) does not work |
| 18:46.43 | Patlabor221 | touper and tolower don't work? |
| 18:46.50 | Patlabor221 | learner: I use those in libIRC |
| 18:47.04 | Patlabor221 | bryjen: they work on strings |
| 18:47.14 | Chestal | learner: renamign the function would just solve the :: or std:: problem |
| 18:47.29 | bryjen | and the std:: ones just do single chars? |
| 18:47.30 | Chestal | tolower and toupper are conceptually broken anyway :-) |
| 18:47.35 | Chestal | well, ok, they make sense for ASCII |
| 18:47.39 | Chestal | kind of |
| 18:47.52 | Patlabor221 | std::has one? |
| 18:48.07 | Chestal | bryjen: there is one for ints and one for char* at least. Actually, it's a template and parameterzied by a locale object |
| 18:48.22 | bryjen | don't listen too much to me. I'm short on clues here. |
| 18:48.24 | Chestal | Patlabor2: if you use #include <cctype>, they should be in std, not in global namesapce |
| 18:48.37 | Chestal | but compilers were and still are broken |
| 18:48.46 | Patlabor221 | but they still only work on char*'s right not std::strings |
| 18:48.50 | Chestal | so, bz nowuses ctype.h and ::tolower |
| 18:48.50 | *** part/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@82.84.96.113) |
| 18:48.56 | Chestal | Patlabor2: right |
| 18:49.10 | Patlabor221 | ok, then that's why we have our own, because they return a std::string |
| 18:49.18 | Chestal | and as is they only work for chars<128 |
| 18:49.27 | bryjen | ah |
| 18:49.47 | Chestal | tolower does not even have defined semantics in the general case |
| 18:50.28 | Chestal | k, we need a Windows guy to test all the changes now |
| 18:50.41 | bryjen | origional ascii was 7 bits |
| 18:51.22 | Patlabor221 | awcrap |
| 18:51.29 | Chestal | bryjen: yes. For example, German has the letter ß which only exists as lowercase |
| 18:51.36 | amathis | Patlabor221, I am going to try out Nwn |
| 18:51.42 | Chestal | bryjen: when converting a full word to uppercase, it becomes SS |
| 18:51.42 | Patlabor221 | ok |
| 18:51.44 | Patlabor221 | have fun |
| 18:51.56 | Patlabor221 | Chestal: I'm geting latest, were any files added? or just changes? |
| 18:52.05 | Chestal | Patlabor221: src/common/TextUtils.cxx is new |
| 18:52.20 | Patlabor221 | k |
| 18:53.20 | learner | Chestal, i'm not quite following.. the code was compiling everywhere before so what's changed? |
| 18:53.27 | bryjen | ~dict ASCII |
| 18:53.35 | Patlabor221 | ohh my |
| 18:53.40 | Patlabor221 | that's a lot of errors |
| 18:53.46 | Chestal | learner: no, the code you had did not work with gcc 3.2 |
| 18:54.05 | Patlabor221 | tolower is not a memeber of std |
| 18:54.16 | learner | hrm.. I was using 3.2 when I wrote that |
| 18:54.18 | Patlabor221 | c:\Documents and Settings\JeffM\Desktop\bzflag_HEAD\include\TextUtils.h(97) : error C2664: 'TextUtils::tolower' : cannot convert parameter 1 from 'const std::allocator<_Ty>::value_type' to 'const std::string &' |
| 18:55.11 | Chestal | learner: hmm, bryjen had problems with it. |
| 18:55.21 | Chestal | learner: anyway, it's most important that it works everywhere |
| 18:55.30 | Chestal | Patlabor: ehm? |
| 18:55.51 | Patlabor221 | my ctype.h is not part of the std namespace |
| 18:55.54 | Chestal | ah, ok |
| 18:56.07 | Chestal | we need to replace those by ::tolower now |
| 18:56.20 | Patlabor221 | windows can also use _tolower |
| 18:56.44 | Patlabor221 | and that will send it to the narrow or wide version, depending on the current string setings. |
| 18:57.05 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03chestal * 10bzflag/include/TextUtils.h: with ctype.h, tolower is in global namespace |
| 18:57.08 | Chestal | try updating please |
| 18:58.20 | Patlabor221 | hookayyy! |
| 18:58.24 | Chestal | you using vc7? |
| 18:58.49 | Patlabor221 | 7.1 |
| 18:59.05 | Chestal | k, I am more afraid of vc6 :-) |
| 18:59.08 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/win32/VC71/common.vcproj: add in textutils.cxx |
| 18:59.15 | Patlabor221 | I can try that too in a sec |
| 19:00.45 | Patlabor221 | yeah common builds fine in 7.1 now |
| 19:01.31 | Patlabor221 | geting clean for vc6 |
| 19:04.48 | *** join/#bzflag Vade (~c3ac37d2@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 19:05.24 | Vade | what do i type in "Server:"? |
| 19:05.35 | Patlabor221 | for? |
| 19:05.38 | Vade | in Linux |
| 19:05.41 | Patlabor221 | for? |
| 19:05.50 | Vade | BZFlag |
| 19:05.55 | Patlabor221 | to join a server? |
| 19:06.00 | Patlabor221 | use the "find a server" |
| 19:06.00 | Vade | yea |
| 19:06.04 | Patlabor221 | pick one |
| 19:06.08 | bryjen | try selecting find server |
| 19:06.09 | Patlabor221 | and it'll fill in the server line for you |
| 19:06.21 | Vade | its says cannot open list server |
| 19:06.32 | Patlabor221 | are you behind a proxy or a firewall? |
| 19:06.40 | Vade | yup |
| 19:06.41 | Patlabor221 | and what version of BZ? |
| 19:06.56 | Vade | 1.7d build 9 |
| 19:06.59 | Patlabor221 | oh |
| 19:07.01 | Patlabor221 | that's old |
| 19:07.01 | bryjen | ack! |
| 19:07.03 | Patlabor221 | get the current one |
| 19:07.07 | Patlabor221 | 1.10.6 |
| 19:07.09 | Vade | ^.^ |
| 19:07.16 | Patlabor221 | can you get to http://db.bzflag.org/db/ |
| 19:07.21 | Vade | thanks |
| 19:07.44 | Chestal | 1.7d, cool |
| 19:07.50 | Patlabor221 | chestal looks like textUtils compiles on vc6, I don' have curl so I got other errors, but none in that file |
| 19:08.18 | Chestal | Patlabor221: k,looks good so far. There could still be errors in other files which use the inline functions, though. We'll see |
| 19:08.38 | Patlabor221 | posibly |
| 19:08.41 | orchid | i cant compile bzflag-1.7c for the record either |
| 19:08.48 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/win32/VC6/common.dsp: add textutils.cxx |
| 19:08.49 | Patlabor221 | hah |
| 19:08.54 | Patlabor221 | I can build 1.7b1 |
| 19:09.07 | orchid | i tried it the other day, for old times sake |
| 19:10.01 | Chestal | I think I started with 1.7e2 and the fx versions |
| 19:10.43 | Patlabor221 | crs never got back to me on if I could put the super old code I have in cvs |
| 19:10.49 | orchid | rushing* |
| 19:10.54 | learner | e6! |
| 19:11.08 | orchid | i think thats what it was called |
| 19:11.19 | Chestal | e6 was a good version |
| 19:11.22 | Patlabor221 | e6 was the last one before version sanity |
| 19:11.44 | learner | e6 was the version I started on .. but only briefly before g0 came out |
| 19:11.56 | Patlabor221 | oh wow |
| 19:12.01 | Patlabor221 | forgot about the G's |
| 19:12.23 | Patlabor221 | and the illfated 1.8 |
| 19:12.23 | Chestal | and the fs that never were |
| 19:12.37 | learner | hrm.. i wonder what was installed on the O2s.. |
| 19:12.46 | learner | never payed attention to the version back then |
| 19:36.38 | Patlabor221 | so the text utils in bz should be good now? |
| 19:38.01 | *** join/#bzflag Vade (~c3ac37d2@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 19:38.06 | Vade | hey |
| 19:39.30 | *** join/#bzflag Vader (~c3ac37d2@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 19:49.07 | *** join/#bzflag Vaaddeerr (~c3ac37d2@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 19:49.32 | Vaaddeerr | hey, wheres the best place to get the needed libs? |
| 19:49.40 | Patlabor221 | what libs do you need? |
| 19:50.39 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (Tupone@82.84.127.143) |
| 19:50.52 | orchid | ciao Tupone |
| 19:50.58 | Tupone | ciao :) |
| 19:51.09 | trepan | Tupone: been trying to get the client side URL loading working |
| 19:51.23 | Tupone | ? It does not? |
| 19:51.42 | trepan | got a small cache file on orchid's machine, that I can see with a browser, but it's putting a 404 message into .bzf/cache |
| 19:51.53 | trepan | orchid: p.s. thx =) |
| 19:52.02 | Tupone | what is the -cache option? |
| 19:52.07 | trepan | can't seem to load a local file either |
| 19:52.14 | trepan | -cache 'file://usr/home/trepan/.bzf/cache/arcs.cache' |
| 19:52.28 | trepan | and -cache 'http://bzgirl.bzflag.org/~trepan/arc.cache' |
| 19:52.36 | trepan | oops, arc/arcs |
| 19:52.39 | Tupone | you should leave the name you have in the cache, the md5'ed one |
| 19:52.55 | trepan | why? |
| 19:53.08 | Tupone | and so the option should be -cache http://bzgirl.bzflag.org/~trepan/ |
| 19:53.23 | trepan | that's how it's gonna check the hash? bad form |
| 19:53.29 | trepan | but good enough for now ;) |
| 19:53.33 | Tupone | :) |
| 19:55.33 | trepan | ah, righteous, seems to be working |
| 19:56.14 | trepan | ah now for the aztec test |
| 19:56.50 | trepan | s/ah/and |
| 19:56.57 | Aribeth | trepan - thats an awsome map |
| 19:57.14 | prop | would someone happen to know what could cause laggyness? we tested downloading from the server, and even rebooted the windows computer but it's still laggy. and a few hours ago it worked fine. |
| 19:57.41 | trepan | Aribeth: looks neat, but it's got all kinds of holes in it, would need a fair amount of work to be used with bz |
| 19:57.45 | Patlabor221 | trafic on the internet prop |
| 19:57.50 | Patlabor221 | or splyware |
| 19:58.02 | Aribeth | agreed |
| 19:58.16 | Aribeth | but still looks good |
| 19:58.54 | trepan | plus, it's just too big for the gfx at the moment ;) |
| 19:59.21 | Aribeth | my video card did have trouble with it. |
| 20:00.43 | trepan | really? if you look in from one of the corners of the map, your FPS should crash |
| 20:00.53 | trepan | especially if you've got shadows on |
| 20:01.15 | *** join/#bzflag |tim| (timmmmmay@cpe-66-75-195-113.bak.rr.com) |
| 20:01.18 | Aribeth | it was jummpy for me. i have a geforce 4 440 go in my laptop |
| 20:01.56 | prop | Patlabor221, well the client was able to download from the server with decent speed. and i doubt that it would be spyware related although i'm not sure. |
| 20:01.58 | trepan | sry, i read that your video card _didn't_ have probs with it... time for a break |
| 20:02.03 | Aribeth | 1.2 ghz P3 dell laptop |
| 20:02.37 | Aribeth | my laptop is near the limits of what it can handle. |
| 20:02.59 | Patlabor221 | prop: speed is not lag |
| 20:03.27 | trepan | Tupone: yup, it works, much better then the start/stop that bzfs does currently |
| 20:04.00 | trepan | can you get curl to give you updates for the "Downloaded X%" message? |
| 20:04.01 | Tupone | and that could not lag other player |
| 20:04.06 | Tupone | yeah |
| 20:04.10 | trepan | cool |
| 20:04.12 | *** join/#bzflag tegan (~lyra@dsl017-034-201.sfo4.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:04.17 | Tupone | there is a call back |
| 20:04.31 | Tupone | and I can put hook there |
| 20:04.43 | trepan | might also want to do a check after the first 1KB or something, to make sure that the header is proper |
| 20:04.44 | Tupone | what is the server you tried? |
| 20:04.49 | trepan | bzg's |
| 20:05.00 | trepan | server on mine, cache file on heres |
| 20:05.02 | trepan | not public |
| 20:05.17 | Tupone | can I try it? |
| 20:05.57 | trepan | it's @ trepan.homelinux.net:8000 |
| 20:06.28 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10CVSROOT/loginfo: don't send notifications of bzadmin changes to the cops list. only match admin modules |
| 20:10.30 | trepan | throw in decompression for the URL, a MD5 check, and maybe a client side text parser (with valid object count verification), and it's done ;) |
| 20:11.13 | Tupone | why decompression? |
| 20:11.23 | Tupone | is already there, from cache |
| 20:11.59 | trepan | cause peoples want to use the raw text file format on the client side |
| 20:12.11 | trepan | so as to maintain the comments |
| 20:12.38 | trepan | i'd be just a happy if we made a header object, that contained all the text until a non-white or comment line |
| 20:13.14 | trepan | be there is more flexbility in the text format |
| 20:14.00 | Tupone | before going to text format client analysis, why not change it? I mean the format. To a more popular one? |
| 20:14.35 | Tupone | :)) |
| 20:14.46 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~chatzilla@DHCP-171-89.caltech.edu) |
| 20:15.02 | Tupone | Mine is just an hack to reduce d/l time for huge map |
| 20:15.18 | trepan | i don't really care... you want to do XML, go ahead |
| 20:15.34 | trepan | what i'd be more concerned with is how lax we are about the format |
| 20:15.59 | trepan | if it's going to be textual, then the map has to match up on both sides, so no willy-nilly descarding of parameter |
| 20:16.00 | Tupone | I want just postpone after release. So leave with binary, remove game info, and publish it |
| 20:16.13 | trepan | Tupone: now that sounds like a good plan |
| 20:17.15 | trepan | still need to add object counts thoug |
| 20:17.34 | Tupone | I have to see what you're talking about :) |
| 20:17.54 | Tupone | need a dictionary ... does not help :( |
| 20:17.59 | trepan | i can tack that in right at the beginning of the binary format before the next protocol breakage |
| 20:18.51 | Tupone | that is like a checksum? |
| 20:19.12 | trepan | ya, kinda, haven't really thought it through entirely |
| 20:19.21 | trepan | do we ditch the whole map if one object fails? |
| 20:19.38 | trepan | that's the easier approach |
| 20:20.06 | Tupone | we should not allow people to play on half a map |
| 20:20.08 | *** join/#bzflag sbo010 (~d52d0706@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 20:20.18 | trepan | no we should not |
| 20:20.40 | trepan | maybe we could make that tests stricter on the bzfs side, thus avoiding the floating point problem |
| 20:21.27 | *** join/#bzflag gina (~gigi@176.57-136-217.adsl.skynet.be) |
| 20:21.39 | trepan | or maybe there is no real problem, and i'm delusional |
| 20:22.01 | Tupone | delusional? not positive? |
| 20:22.12 | trepan | crazy |
| 20:22.33 | Tupone | I think all here are, a little :) |
| 20:22.59 | trepan | :) |
| 20:29.06 | *** join/#bzflag orchid (orchid@orchid.user) |
| 20:52.04 | *** join/#bzflag Fuddl (~fuddl@flups.saustall.busn.org) |
| 20:55.18 | *** join/#bzflag Patlabor221 (~JeffM@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 20:55.19 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Patlabor221] by ChanServ |
| 20:56.25 | *** join/#bzflag huwr (~ingtty@143.238.246.70) |
| 20:56.32 | amathis | wb Patlabor221 |
| 20:56.48 | Patlabor221 | heh, I just went to work |
| 20:56.58 | amathis | I am sorry |
| 20:57.03 | Patlabor221 | it's ok |
| 20:57.06 | Patlabor221 | I'm not actualy working |
| 21:16.57 | amathis | 1.136 GB at 100 k/b/s |
| 21:17.26 | Aribeth | amathis nwn? |
| 21:17.30 | amathis | Aribeth, yeah |
| 21:17.34 | amathis | Aribeth, not the client.. |
| 21:17.37 | amathis | Aribeth, I have the client.. |
| 21:17.42 | Aribeth | ya, its big |
| 21:17.45 | amathis | Aribeth, I just gotta get a gigs worth of resources |
| 21:17.56 | amathis | data... sounds... |
| 21:17.57 | Aribeth | yup. been there |
| 21:18.08 | amathis | but at least I can download it. |
| 21:18.55 | Aribeth | thats good. i did it at work and burned a dvd. work has a biger pipe than i do |
| 21:19.08 | amathis | Aribeth, it is not my end |
| 21:19.32 | amathis | Aribeth, this friggin site has a 100kb/s cap on me unless I make a paid for account |
| 21:19.44 | Aribeth | ohh. thats not good |
| 21:19.47 | amathis | nope |
| 21:20.04 | amathis | but the other site... didnt have a cap gave a 550 error when it reached 49% |
| 21:20.09 | Aribeth | i prob had the same thing |
| 21:20.25 | Aribeth | not good |
| 21:29.16 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/ (include/FontManager.h src/3D/FontManager.cxx): temporary, FontManager vs. context inits |
| 21:29.43 | *** join/#bzflag MeBigFatGuy (dave@balt-209-150-117-202.dynamic-dial.qis.net) |
| 21:34.31 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/CustomBase.cxx: allowing elevated bases without -fb and removing dependency from clOptions |
| 21:36.27 | Legoguy | has anyone mentioned yet that the CVS version, since it uses SDL, seems to have a bit of sound lag? |
| 21:36.48 | Legoguy | milliseconds... but enough to notice |
| 21:37.01 | Tupone | CVS version use SDL by default, but can change it |
| 21:37.24 | Legoguy | is it a command line argument or a ./configure option |
| 21:37.31 | bryjen | that can be caused by SDL using the gnome or sdl sound daemon |
| 21:37.32 | Tupone | a configure options |
| 21:37.33 | Legoguy | (i would thinkg ./configure) |
| 21:37.35 | Legoguy | ok |
| 21:37.50 | Legoguy | bryjen: how do i configure sdl to use alsa |
| 21:37.52 | Pimpinella | i never use sound, so i culdn't notice ;) |
| 21:37.57 | bryjen | gnome or kde |
| 21:38.26 | Legoguy | bryjen: you mean their control panels affect SDL? hmmph |
| 21:38.52 | Legoguy | will gnome-sound-properties work? |
| 21:39.00 | bryjen | uhm, i was just correcting my statment "gnome or kde" not "gnome or sdl" |
| 21:39.09 | Legoguy | oh lol |
| 21:39.15 | Legoguy | how do you configure it then |
| 21:39.30 | bryjen | i think there's an environment variable to tell SDL what device to use |
| 21:39.35 | Legoguy | hmm |
| 21:39.50 | Tupone | Legoguy: go to option->audio |
| 21:39.54 | bryjen | someone else looked it up before |
| 21:39.59 | Pimpinella | Legoguy: and you have to have alsa support in sdl |
| 21:40.03 | Tupone | and set driver to alsa |
| 21:40.12 | Tupone | press return after writing it |
| 21:40.24 | Tupone | and leave bzflag and re-open it |
| 21:40.46 | Legoguy | i was wondering what the driver field was for... it being empty and all.. |
| 21:41.21 | Legoguy | at first i thought it was a broken feature that was supposed to have a fixed set of options |
| 21:41.26 | Legoguy | but i guess i'm wring |
| 21:41.28 | Legoguy | wrong* |
| 21:43.02 | Pimpinella | ~d |
| 21:43.25 | Pimpinella | grr, they flooded the server |
| 21:51.43 | Tupone | Legoguy: driver and device are for when automatic values does not fit you |
| 21:52.45 | *** join/#bzflag MeBigFatGuy (dave@balt-209-150-117-202.dynamic-dial.qis.net) |
| 21:52.48 | Legoguy | cool, lots of new bad flags |
| 21:53.05 | Legoguy | also... is the coming-out-of-ground-when-starting a new feature or a bug |
| 21:53.27 | Tupone | It's a coolness |
| 21:53.35 | sgk284 | legoguy: its an effect |
| 21:53.39 | MeBigFatGuy | feature |
| 21:53.44 | sgk284 | lots of neweffects |
| 21:53.45 | Legoguy | also when falling from a jump its kinda cool when you hit the ground |
| 21:53.51 | MeBigFatGuy | helps elliviate 'sitting duck' on spawn problem |
| 21:54.00 | sgk284 | if you drop from a high spot there is squishines |
| 21:54.04 | Legoguy | i have another suggestion for that problem |
| 21:54.16 | MeBigFatGuy | try picking up a tank shape changing flag-- extra coolness |
| 21:54.17 | sgk284 | and narrow and tiny are animated now |
| 21:54.25 | MeBigFatGuy | or picking up cloaking |
| 21:54.29 | MeBigFatGuy | thats the sweetness |
| 21:54.29 | sgk284 | yea |
| 21:54.34 | sgk284 | lots of neat new stuff |
| 21:54.50 | Legoguy | why not have a "ghost mode" for approximatley 3 seconds where the person can't shoot nor can they be hit but it will solve the problem of being hit on spawn |
| 21:55.06 | MeBigFatGuy | tim vetoed that idea |
| 21:55.11 | Legoguy | but but |
| 21:55.13 | Legoguy | aww |
| 21:55.22 | Legoguy | dare i ask why? |
| 21:55.40 | MeBigFatGuy | "once you start playing you should start playing" |
| 21:55.51 | MeBigFatGuy | i wanted to blink in for a couple of seconds |
| 21:56.00 | Legoguy | yeah |
| 21:56.23 | Legoguy | with that attitude that means that now the server has the responsibility for placing the spawn in a safe spot |
| 21:56.26 | Patlabor221 | ibot nslookup users.gibbscam.com |
| 21:56.31 | Legoguy | it would be much easier to blink in |
| 21:57.54 | Legoguy | for example (don't kill me for using a racing game as an example) in all of the NFS series when you get stuck and hit the reset button you blink in rather than being hit full force by an opponent |
| 21:58.35 | Legoguy | beleive me every time i have to hit the reset button (not that often really) it would result in a crash had that feature not been there |
| 21:59.09 | amathis | Patlabor221, is libIrc linux build utd? |
| 21:59.16 | amathis | *up to date |
| 21:59.20 | Patlabor221 | I think so |
| 21:59.25 | Chestal | I still somewhat liek the idea of making the newly spawned tank invulnerable to shots which are older than the spawn |
| 21:59.37 | Chestal | it's not perfect, but IMHO better than the current situation |
| 21:59.45 | Legoguy | Chestal: yes way better |
| 21:59.47 | MeBigFatGuy | not a bad idea |
| 22:00.10 | amathis | how about this: a 5 second 'invulnerable time' after unpause |
| 22:00.21 | Legoguy | but what if, per big chance, the guy who killed you had an extra shot and when you respawned that extra shot hit you again :P |
| 22:00.37 | Legoguy | amathis: i suggested 3 |
| 22:00.45 | *** part/#bzflag Tupone (Tupone@82.84.127.143) |
| 22:00.45 | sgk284 | amathis: the only problem i see with that is itd be easy for cheaters to set the time limit indefintly |
| 22:01.01 | Patlabor221 | have the server check it, it knows when the spawned. |
| 22:01.01 | Legoguy | not if it's server-side timed |
| 22:01.13 | Patlabor221 | make them not be able to shoot when inviulnerable |
| 22:01.22 | Legoguy | (like i said) |
| 22:01.25 | Patlabor221 | and make the other clients get the "the dude is vulernable" message from the server |
| 22:01.29 | sgk284 | didn't think settig it server side was an option, if so then thatd probably be the best fix, but then again tim vetoed it :/ |
| 22:01.32 | Patlabor221 | so who cares what he sets his thing to |
| 22:01.39 | sgk284 | yea |
| 22:02.20 | Patlabor221 | let it be the first server driven state :) |
| 22:02.25 | Legoguy | but what's the benefit of not changing anything now and having unhappy players when we could implement this fairly quickly and solve some if not all of the spawn-kill problems? |
| 22:02.53 | sgk284 | Patlabor221: heh yea, and hopefully many more :) |
| 22:03.11 | Chestal | the possible options ned more discussion I think |
| 22:03.14 | Legoguy | i demand a recount :P |
| 22:03.18 | Chestal | but without me for the moment, good night :-) |
| 22:03.21 | sgk284 | Legoguy: Tim said no :/ thats all that matters |
| 22:03.31 | orchid | nite Chestal |
| 22:03.40 | sgk284 | night chestal |
| 22:03.50 | Legoguy | i'm just kidding about the recount... but nonetheless we neeeed to do something about that |
| 22:04.07 | Legoguy | because that's the biggest annoyance of the game atm imho |
| 22:04.21 | sgk284 | yea |
| 22:04.40 | sgk284 | maybe i jsut updated cvs at a bad time, but the collision detection is majorly messed up |
| 22:04.50 | Legoguy | wfm |
| 22:05.02 | sgk284 | trepan had mentioned it but didn't realize to what extent it was |
| 22:05.06 | Legoguy | collision of what, bullets and tanks or bullets and objects |
| 22:05.14 | sgk284 | tank movement |
| 22:05.22 | Legoguy | tanks and objects then? |
| 22:05.34 | sgk284 | it keeps getting stuck every time the tank moves to a new collision tree node |
| 22:05.40 | Legoguy | hmm |
| 22:05.43 | *** join/#bzflag Memnarch (~c4281e7c@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 22:05.47 | Legoguy | it seems to work for me... |
| 22:05.54 | sgk284 | it may have been fixed i ahvent updated in probbly 24 hours :/ |
| 22:06.33 | sgk284 | i'll try it again |
| 22:06.40 | sgk284 | my sound delay magically went away :/ |
| 22:07.00 | Legoguy | yeah its fine, collision is ok |
| 22:07.05 | Legoguy | at least for me |
| 22:07.19 | Legoguy | i might not see it with my fast hardware if its just a very slight pause |
| 22:07.44 | Legoguy | but you said stuck... nope didnt see that |
| 22:08.38 | Legoguy | anyone wanna play on the CVS ducati server :P |
| 22:08.55 | sgk284 | legoguy: i forgot to mention that the collision detection only had a problem for me when i had wings |
| 22:08.58 | orchid | ok Legoguy |
| 22:08.59 | sgk284 | oops:) |
| 22:09.03 | Legoguy | aaah |
| 22:09.03 | orchid | i need a break; |
| 22:09.06 | sgk284 | legoguy: i'll play |
| 22:09.13 | Legoguy | ok see you guys there then |
| 22:11.14 | Legoguy | hmph server stopped |
| 22:11.26 | sgk284 | oh okay, wasnt just me then heh |
| 22:11.39 | sgk284 | legoguy, you can view your own treads on your screen too now |
| 22:11.41 | orchid | wouldnt let me join |
| 22:11.42 | sgk284 | if you want |
| 22:11.48 | sgk284 | yea server just went down |
| 22:11.52 | sgk284 | different server? |
| 22:11.57 | Legoguy | sgk284: i can see my own tank!? |
| 22:12.04 | Legoguy | sgk284: i'll start my server |
| 22:12.13 | sgk284 | Legoguy: go to display and turn on viewing treads |
| 22:12.17 | Legoguy | woah |
| 22:12.18 | Legoguy | anyway |
| 22:12.20 | sgk284 | i think its in display |
| 22:12.31 | Legoguy | umm ill set up my viper server at turbogfx.homelinux.org |
| 22:12.58 | sgk284 | port? |
| 22:14.05 | *** join/#bzflag t4 (~t4@pirx.hfbk-hamburg.de) |
| 22:14.29 | sgk284 | Legoguy: what port? |
| 22:14.45 | bryjen | ~nslookup ducati.bzflag.org |
| 22:14.47 | Legoguy | hold on setting it up (debugging my script real quick) |
| 22:15.02 | sgk284 | oh ok |
| 22:15.14 | bryjen | ducati's DNS lookup never works for me |
| 22:15.30 | Legoguy | sgk284: its in the list, 5154 |
| 22:15.35 | sgk284 | sounds good |
| 22:16.56 | *** part/#bzflag Memnarch (~c4281e7c@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 22:17.29 | *** mode/#bzflag [-v Patlabor221] by Patlabor221 |
| 22:17.44 | Patlabor221 | tht dosn't make me show as +@Patlabor221 does it? |
| 22:18.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v guu] by Patlabor221 |
| 22:21.04 | sgk284 | no |
| 22:22.08 | Patlabor221 | yay |
| 22:23.09 | Patlabor221 | just so everyone knows, we set up #irc for libIRC stuff, no more commit messages will go here. |
| 22:23.16 | Patlabor221 | well learner set it up |
| 22:27.35 | learner | mm.. guu is all green now |
| 22:27.41 | learner | green guu :) heh |
| 22:27.54 | bryjen | is grey here. and you are green |
| 22:28.19 | learner | aua.. green callsign is in use |
| 22:28.47 | Patlabor221 | she has voice |
| 22:28.52 | Patlabor221 | had to see what she looked like |
| 22:31.21 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (lan56@dialup-4.233.23.209.Dial1.LosAngeles1.Level3.net) |
| 22:31.55 | lan56 | how come guu has voice? were there munchkins on earlier? |
| 22:32.51 | learner | nothing slips by him |
| 22:36.31 | trepan | the std::string clear() calls are breaking gcc 2.95.4, anyone care? |
| 22:37.21 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 22:37.33 | trepan | nuff said |
| 22:37.46 | Legoguy | trepan_away: do you need any help with tread and/or wheel textures |
| 22:37.53 | Legoguy | trepan* |
| 22:38.22 | lan56 | try again, fats :) |
| 22:45.43 | CIA-1 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/ControlPanel.cxx: remove duplicate fm::rebuild call |
| 22:52.21 | learner | but .. should .. not .. |
| 22:53.41 | lan56 | nah, one slice won't kill you :) |
| 22:55.22 | learner | when you don't cut the pizza into "slices" it can |
| 22:56.05 | lan56 | that's just called eating an entire pizza in one bite :) |
| 22:56.07 | Aribeth | it depends on how big the pizza is i guess |
| 22:56.55 | lan56 | ms. piggy eats pizza, so I'd say that makes it fine to eat some |
| 22:57.14 | learner | i ate ms. piggy for lunch |
| 22:57.24 | JBdiGriz | was kermit jealous? |
| 22:57.40 | learner | he was dinner a few weeks ago |
| 22:57.52 | lan56 | eew man, you eat frogs? what culture are you? :) |
| 22:58.38 | learner | i'll eat almost anything organic at least once |
| 22:59.16 | sgk284 | thats a great quote heh |
| 23:04.07 | Legoguy | trepan_away: question, will it be possible to make water non-volatile, in the case of Viper's map where you can drive through the water (upside-down pyramids) in the moat? |
| 23:04.33 | trepan | you already can |
| 23:05.30 | trepan | Legoguy: you just use a shootthru drivethru mesh face with a textuer matrix |
| 23:06.04 | *** part/#bzflag tegan (~lyra@dsl017-034-201.sfo4.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 23:06.07 | trepan | Legoguy: and no, thx for the offer, but don't need help with the tread textures, they don't even exist as separate entities yet |
| 23:07.20 | trepan | the textures will have to be coordinated with the code, in the case of slight team coloration, and in terms of the uv scales |
| 23:12.06 | t4 | hi, can someone point me to where to put maps ? |
| 23:12.34 | Patlabor221 | to use them? or to post for others to use? |
| 23:13.01 | *** join/#bzflag vega (~c2b935ac@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 23:13.04 | t4 | to use them. strings on the binary didn't help me so far *g* |
| 23:13.09 | lan56 | anywhere, just make sure you give BZFS the correct directory, and if the dir has spaces in its name, put the name in quotes, using BZFS options "-world DIR" |
| 23:13.13 | Patlabor221 | they can go anywhrer |
| 23:13.19 | vega | hi |
| 23:13.21 | Patlabor221 | yeah just put it as part of the server command line |
| 23:13.24 | Patlabor221 | hello |
| 23:13.27 | lan56 | hey |
| 23:13.36 | t4 | thanx |
| 23:13.40 | lan56 | np |
| 23:14.02 | vega | can anyone talk with me on bzflag server? |
| 23:14.05 | vega | help |
| 23:14.16 | Patlabor221 | what do you need help with? |
| 23:14.33 | vega | to enable bouncing |
| 23:14.43 | vega | fire bouncing |
| 23:14.49 | Patlabor221 | huh? |
| 23:14.51 | Patlabor221 | jumping? |
| 23:14.56 | lan56 | ricochet you mean? |
| 23:14.57 | vega | no |
| 23:15.04 | Patlabor221 | +r for rico |
| 23:15.13 | lan56 | bzfs option |
| 23:15.14 | vega | on the conf file? |
| 23:15.17 | lan56 | yes |
| 23:15.19 | Patlabor221 | or the command line |
| 23:15.20 | Patlabor221 | ether or |
| 23:15.24 | lan56 | XOR |
| 23:15.37 | vega | ok try thank |
| 23:15.41 | lan56 | np |
| 23:15.47 | lan56 | NEXT! :) |
| 23:16.52 | trepan | and the despondence grows |
| 23:17.03 | Patlabor221 | ibot bzfslist |
| 23:17.07 | Patlabor221 | ibot bzflist |
| 23:17.20 | Patlabor221 | well at least there arn't more serves then players yet |
| 23:18.03 | lan56 | more players would be fantastic |
| 23:18.03 | vega | ok it's working |
| 23:18.07 | vega | thanks guys |
| 23:18.10 | lan56 | np |
| 23:18.30 | vega | you are wellcome on pznet.it |
| 23:19.36 | learner | aa, italiano |
| 23:20.17 | learner | dovreste comunicare con tupone :) |
| 23:23.32 | vega | hehhe chi e'? |
| 23:24.33 | vega | ok must go... |
| 23:24.50 | vega | thanks, night |
| 23:24.55 | *** part/#bzflag vega (~c2b935ac@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 23:30.49 | Legoguy | holy cow... in CVS... is being able to shoot semitransparent bullets in PZ supposed to be there? |
| 23:31.13 | Patlabor221 | it was added |
| 23:31.21 | Patlabor221 | you can only shoot other PZed people |
| 23:31.45 | Legoguy | thatsx what i had hopes |
| 23:31.48 | Legoguy | hoped* |
| 23:32.09 | Legoguy | hmm sounds like fun.. ghost wars |
| 23:33.04 | Legoguy | what exactly does the lag flag do... no noticeable difference when there's only one person on a server |
| 23:33.10 | Patlabor221 | makes pz ever sligtly less stupid |
| 23:33.17 | lan56 | no, but other msgs are slowed |
| 23:33.18 | Patlabor221 | it makes you look all laggy |
| 23:33.40 | Legoguy | oh |
| 23:34.11 | Patlabor221 | what it should do is just delay all your actions by 250ms |
| 23:34.16 | Patlabor221 | fixed |
| 23:34.24 | Legoguy | any progress on the multiple-flag flag thing... if it's planned? |
| 23:34.30 | lan56 | no way |
| 23:34.33 | Patlabor221 | it's not planed |
| 23:34.40 | Legoguy | would be cool :P |
| 23:34.48 | Patlabor221 | it's be a difretn game |
| 23:34.48 | lan56 | sure, but it changes the game a lot |
| 23:34.54 | Legoguy | but i can understand how complex it would make things |
| 23:35.06 | Legoguy | in the coder's perspective |
| 23:35.15 | lan56 | that's taking a cheat, and making it ethical |
| 23:35.16 | Patlabor221 | no it changes the gameplay a lot |
| 23:35.27 | Legoguy | yeah |
| 23:35.28 | Patlabor221 | if your gonna allow multi effects |
| 23:35.36 | Patlabor221 | then make them be weapons not flags |
| 23:35.47 | Legoguy | like.. it woudlnt be all that fun having an ST-GM |
| 23:35.54 | Legoguy | to play against |
| 23:35.54 | Patlabor221 | and make weapons be able to apply bad statuses to people |
| 23:35.58 | Legoguy | or CL-ST |
| 23:35.59 | Legoguy | heh |
| 23:36.03 | lan56 | :) |
| 23:36.30 | Patlabor221 | to ballance that you'd have to give them some sort of power limit that made them ballance when they were active |
| 23:36.38 | Patlabor221 | or make it realy slow down the shot reload time |
| 23:36.47 | Patlabor221 | more items use more power |
| 23:37.01 | Legoguy | we need a BFG9000 for bzflag... the longer you hold down the trigger, the bigger the shot, and it has a little shockwave of its own when it explodes |
| 23:37.02 | lan56 | and it would take less effort and changes to cheat |
| 23:37.09 | Patlabor221 | just go play quake |
| 23:37.15 | Patlabor221 | and make your litle dude a tank |
| 23:37.18 | Legoguy | you mean doom3 |
| 23:37.23 | Legoguy | :P |
| 23:37.25 | Patlabor221 | whatever |
| 23:37.37 | Patlabor221 | I don't like id's latest flashlight simulator |
| 23:37.44 | Legoguy | although sw-bullet might be kinda cool |
| 23:37.53 | Patlabor221 | they should just stick with engines |
| 23:38.05 | Legoguy | meh |
| 23:38.12 | Legoguy | hows progress on the gtk2 bzedit? |
| 23:38.20 | Patlabor221 | the what? |
| 23:38.35 | Legoguy | iirc someone posted shots of a bzedit for gtk2 |
| 23:38.42 | Legoguy | not sure if it was you or someone else |
| 23:38.45 | lan56 | legoguy: where are you getting these from? :) |
| 23:38.46 | Patlabor221 | ohh that stoped ages ago |
| 23:38.52 | Legoguy | aaw |
| 23:38.58 | Patlabor221 | like right after it was started |
| 23:39.02 | Legoguy | i want a native bzedit :( |
| 23:39.07 | Patlabor221 | then code one up |
| 23:39.15 | Legoguy | bah |
| 23:39.21 | Legoguy | im not a C programmer |
| 23:39.22 | Patlabor221 | last editor work was done on looking at using blender for it |
| 23:39.30 | Patlabor221 | use the python one then |
| 23:39.30 | Legoguy | blender wow |
| 23:39.34 | Legoguy | that would be sweet |
| 23:39.42 | Patlabor221 | well 1.11 can have mesh objects |
| 23:39.47 | Legoguy | i saw that |
| 23:39.48 | Patlabor221 | so a simple editor won't cut it |
| 23:39.57 | Legoguy | but its better to use primitives right? |
| 23:40.07 | Legoguy | depending on complexity |
| 23:40.17 | Patlabor221 | no not realy |
| 23:40.25 | Patlabor221 | it all goes into the octree |
| 23:40.34 | Legoguy | hmm |
| 23:40.55 | Legoguy | so is this blender plugin working or is it nonexistent or what |
| 23:41.40 | Patlabor221 | dono |
| 23:41.46 | Patlabor221 | couple guys were starting it |
| 23:41.50 | Patlabor221 | then stoped |
| 23:41.57 | Patlabor221 | same ones that were doing the other edit |
| 23:41.58 | Legoguy | :( |
| 23:42.29 | Legoguy | cause ive been wanting to make a map with a stable program for a while now... stable native program that is |
| 23:42.45 | Legoguy | oh well |
| 23:42.48 | Patlabor221 | well lots of things would be nice |
| 23:42.57 | Patlabor221 | ain't gonna happen unless somone writes one |
| 23:42.57 | Legoguy | yeah |
| 23:42.57 | *** join/#bzflag tegan (~lyra@dsl017-034-201.sfo4.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 23:43.08 | Patlabor221 | you coudl try the python one |
| 23:43.31 | Legoguy | im more of a graphics and web-based programmer.. not so much C |
| 23:43.33 | Legoguy | ok |
| 23:43.42 | Legoguy | pybzedit? |
| 23:43.42 | lan56 | legoguy: what do you think about a calculator in bzflag, an entirely separate tab in the HUD, like the other three tabs? |
| 23:44.08 | Legoguy | lan56: now.. that might be silly.. what are you saying by that statment |
| 23:44.29 | lan56 | legoguy: joking around really |
| 23:44.31 | Patlabor221 | what the heck wold you need a calculator in game for? |
| 23:44.41 | Legoguy | thats what i was thinking |
| 23:44.55 | Legoguy | so we could do math homework while watching the game? |
| 23:45.00 | Legoguy | dono |
| 23:45.08 | learner | then kids could do there math homework AND have fun .. *ahem* |
| 23:45.09 | lan56 | no, solve mathematical statements in others' msgs :) |
| 23:45.16 | lan56 | I'd be famous :) |
| 23:45.33 | Legoguy | yeah, famous for the never-used feature |
| 23:45.40 | lan56 | indeed :) |
| 23:46.03 | bryjen | uhm, k |
| 23:46.22 | Legoguy | that would be called bloat... extreme bloat... bloat that would better be repaced with bugfixes |
| 23:46.28 | Patlabor221 | just seeing if +e is sent to clients |
| 23:46.52 | lan56 | legoguy: actually, it wouldn't take too many lines |
| 23:47.51 | lan56 | it was a joke either way |
| 23:48.15 | tegan | Is there a known cheat that enables a guest player to see all private chat? Yesterday I asked somebody, privately, in bzflag "how is the weather?", and an unrelated player responded something like "Chilly, but it's not snowing yet." |
| 23:48.37 | lan56 | in 1.10.x that was a mistake that was realised a while back |
| 23:48.41 | lan56 | only on some servers IIRC |
| 23:49.25 | tegan | does it only happen intermittantly? This has never been known to happen on this server. |
| 23:49.40 | lan56 | well, you would need to change the client |
| 23:49.47 | lan56 | the client tosses any msgs not for us |
| 23:50.03 | lan56 | that would make this a server side deal I'd say |
| 23:50.18 | *** join/#bzflag _Scorch_ (~18937955@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 23:50.38 | tegan | BZFlag server 1.10.6.20040516-RELEASE-linux-gnu |
| 23:51.06 | lan56 | yeah, 1.10.x issue |
| 23:51.10 | *** join/#bzflag _Scorch_ (~18937955@procyon.noodleroni.com) |
| 23:51.21 | tegan | ok, thanks. It was kind of confusing at the time. |
| 23:51.30 | _Scorch_ | hi |
| 23:51.32 | lan56 | it's a lot of fun :) |
| 23:51.33 | _Scorch_ | or not |
| 23:51.38 | lan56 | scorch: hey |
| 23:51.39 | _Scorch_ | dang http irc client |
| 23:51.48 | _Scorch_ | cant see a d_m_ thing on them |
| 23:51.49 | Patlabor221 | get a real one |
| 23:52.06 | lan56 | damn isn't too bad of a word |
| 23:52.16 | lan56 | he was just being cautious I suppose |
| 23:52.38 | Patlabor221 | oh for the love of crap |
| 23:52.45 | Patlabor221 | that icon HAS TO GO |
| 23:53.09 | Patlabor221 | "lord of gravity" |
| 23:53.34 | lan56 | where? |
| 23:53.45 | Patlabor221 | bzbb |
| 23:53.50 | Patlabor221 | http://bzbb.bzflag.org/viewtopic.php?t=2146 |
| 23:53.53 | lan56 | ahh |
| 23:57.06 | Legoguy | hmm the forum banner image is outdated now :P |
| 23:57.26 | Patlabor221 | I am about [--] this far from requireing 16+ on bzbb |
| 23:57.50 | Legoguy | would prolly be good for your sanity |
| 23:58.52 | lan56 | patlabor221: munchkins would put down there age as over 16 anyway |
| 23:59.03 | Patlabor221 | I mean when your MOM has to send in a permsion slip...... |
| 23:59.06 | lan56 | you could set it to require over 200 years old, and people would still say they are |
| 23:59.15 | Patlabor221 | lan56, but as soon as I found out, I could ban em |
| 23:59.24 | lan56 | indeed |
| 23:59.40 | lan56 | either way, I don't know much about phpbb |
| 23:59.43 | Patlabor221 | or I could say "only with administtor consent" |
| 23:59.47 | huwr | Oh, wow: http://grc.com/dos/grcdos.htm |
| 23:59.51 | huwr | That's an extremely interesting article. |
| 23:59.56 | huwr | It's like... wow. |
| 23:59.56 | Patlabor221 | since there are some kids who are fine |
| 23:59.58 | tegan | what's it about? |
