irclog2html for #bzflag on 20050119

`00:00.39`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-3 (~CIA@to.je.spocco.com)`
`00:06.28`	`Tupone`	`DTRemenak: have you dl the source from sf?`
`00:07.59`	`ViPeR`	`DTRemenak: how can i start my own server on windows version of bzflag?`
`00:08.19`	`Tupone`	`from a "dos windows"`
`00:08.28`	`ViPeR`	`ok but how`
`00:08.37`	`Tupone`	`you can start from bzflag, but that will be only local to you`
`00:08.48`	`Tupone`	`bzfs`
`00:08.55`	`ViPeR`	`oh`
`00:09.05`	`ViPeR`	`but there no way to make it public?`
`00:09.23`	`Tupone`	`bzfs -public "My own server"`
`00:09.40`	`ViPeR`	`ok`
`00:09.49`	`Tupone`	`well, you have to fill lot of options. Why not looking at the wiki?`
`00:10.00`	`creeperz`	`i cannot for the life of me figure this out:`
`00:10.05`	`creeperz`	`i have a 2 team CTF`
`00:10.11`	`creeperz`	`red and blue`
`00:10.11`	`Tupone`	`http://www.bzflag.org/wiki/CreatingAServer`
`00:10.13`	`creeperz`	`no rogue`
`00:10.18`	`creeperz`	`how do i set that up?`
`00:10.34`	`creeperz`	`-mp 5,0,0,5,0?`
`00:11.13`	`Tupone`	`-mp is the one`
`00:11.33`	`creeperz`	`thats for total?`
`00:11.36`	`Tupone`	`look at the wiki first`
`00:13.21`	`orchid`	`0,5,0,5,0,0`
`00:21.35`	`Elspuddy`	`is curl an ftp program ?`
`00:23.48`	`JeffM2501`	`curl is both a URL geting application and a library`
`00:23.55`	`JeffM2501`	`bzflag uses the library from some web access`
`00:24.18`	`DTRemenak`	`TimRiker, JeffM2501: source .zip is posted.`
`00:24.31`	`Elspuddy`	`asking this becasue when i tryed to compile 2.0 this after noon it said i was missing that and sdl`
`00:24.32`	`JeffM2501`	`huzzah`
`00:24.43`	`JeffM2501`	`then you need curl and sdl`
`00:24.57`	`JeffM2501`	`what OS?`
`00:25.01`	`*** part/#bzflag Thumper_ (~bernt@CPE000102d0fe24-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`00:25.02`	`Elspuddy`	`freebsd`
`00:25.09`	`DTRemenak`	`you don't need sdl if you only want bzadmin`
`00:25.14`	`JeffM2501`	`you'll want libcurl`
`00:25.16`	`DTRemenak`	`you will want curl`
`00:25.17`	`JeffM2501`	`and curses`
`00:25.28`	`DTRemenak`	`yup`
`00:25.34`	`DTRemenak`	`and you'll need GL headers`
`00:25.42`	`JeffM2501`	`and a ponny`
`00:25.43`	`DTRemenak`	`which sounds strange`
`00:25.52`	`DTRemenak`	`but it's sadly true`
`00:25.58`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah noone gets why the pony needs to be there`
`00:26.04`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`00:26.05`	`Elspuddy`	`do you have the urls for curl and sdl ?`
`00:26.05`	`JeffM2501`	`it just helps alot`
`00:26.14`	`JeffM2501`	`your OS have a package manager?`
`00:26.24`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: use ports if you have it`
`00:26.32`	`DTRemenak`	`it should be in www`
`00:26.38`	`Elspuddy`	`yep, but the only curl that is listed in the ports collection is an ftp program called curl`
`00:26.53`	`JeffM2501`	`look for libcurl`
`00:27.01`	`*** join/#bzflag PrezKennedy (~Matthew@pcp035019pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)`
`00:27.12`	`Elspuddy`	`dont have that one`
`00:27.21`	`JeffM2501`	`guu google libcurl`
`00:27.22`	`guu`	`JeffM2501: Do I look like that kind of girl?`
`00:27.29`	`JeffM2501`	`I guess not`
`00:27.38`	`shorty114`	`heh`
`00:27.40`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: actually, it's a pkg`
`00:27.43`	`DTRemenak`	`not a port`
`00:27.52`	`shorty114`	`!google libcurl`
`00:27.53`	`guu`	`shorty114: bafuuuuuu!`
`00:27.59`	`shorty114`	`~google libcurl`
`00:28.11`	`DTRemenak`	`or just download it there`
`00:28.12`	`JeffM2501`	`just changing how you address guu dosn't change wha she can do`
`00:28.14`	`DTRemenak`	`the first url is correct`
`00:28.20`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah google.. the URL for everything`
`00:29.14`	`PrezKennedy`	`~google newkular power`
`00:29.29`	`Noodle-sensei`	`ibot is that kinda girl`
`00:29.42`	`JeffM2501`	`only if you buy her dinner`
`00:29.47`	`Noodle-sensei`	`~botsnack`
`00:29.47`	`ibot`	`thanks, Noodle-sensei`
`00:30.17`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: looks like ports/ftp/curl includes both curl (the program) and libcurl (the library)`
`00:30.23`	`DTRemenak`	`so it would work`
`00:31.55`	`DTRemenak`	`the most restrictive thing for bzadmin, though, is that you have to have GL.`
`00:32.05`	`shorty114`	`>.<`
`00:32.06`	`DTRemenak`	`to compile it...not necessarily to run it`
`00:32.24`	`JeffM2501`	`that's why OCadmin is called xchat :)`
`00:32.40`	`shorty114`	`heh`
`00:32.47`	`Elspuddy`	`GL ?`
`00:32.51`	`DTRemenak`	`opengl`
`00:32.56`	`DTRemenak`	`it requires GL.h`
`00:32.56`	`Elspuddy`	`epp`
`00:33.01`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, it's stupid`
`00:33.06`	`Elspuddy`	`now i know i dont have that runing right ;)`
`00:33.07`	`shorty114`	`how _can_ i get GL?`
`00:33.32`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: if you can force an install of mesa-devel without installing X that would be good`
`00:33.44`	`DTRemenak`	`good enough, that is`
`00:34.09`	`Elspuddy`	`tbh, i am in x`
`00:34.16`	`DTRemenak`	`oh, ok`
`00:34.21`	`DTRemenak`	`then that's easier`
`00:35.14`	`Elspuddy`	`thats curl installed`
`00:35.26`	`*** join/#bzflag SilverFox (SilverFox@68-116-47-254.or.charter.com)`
`00:35.35`	`Elspuddy`	`do i ned sdl as well ?`
`00:35.39`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`00:35.43`	`DTRemenak`	`not unless you want the bzflag client`
`00:35.57`	`DTRemenak`	`and even then, you don't really need it. it'll just crash less often and work better if you have it :)`
`00:37.40`	`Elspuddy`	`./configure --disable-client --prefix=/usr/home/elspuddy/ <-- that should work right ?`
`00:37.57`	`Tupone`	`Elspuddy: where you get the source?`
`00:38.20`	`Elspuddy`	`err, the web page`
`00:38.35`	`Tupone`	`sourceforge?`
`00:38.52`	`Elspuddy`	`nope, the 1.11 page`
`00:38.53`	`Tupone`	`sf.net?`
`00:38.55`	`Tupone`	`ahh`
`00:39.05`	`Elspuddy`	`i got the server running`
`00:39.13`	`Tupone`	`however, that should work`
`00:39.14`	`Elspuddy`	`just now want the bzadmin`
`00:39.43`	`Elspuddy`	`hmm`
`00:39.48`	`Elspuddy`	`haveing the same problem`
`00:39.52`	`Elspuddy`	`BZFlag-2.0.0.20050119 with the following:`
`00:39.52`	`Elspuddy`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:39.53`	`Elspuddy`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:39.53`	`Elspuddy`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:39.54`	`Elspuddy`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:39.54`	`Elspuddy`	`<PROTECTED>`
`00:40.32`	`Tupone`	`what OS?`
`00:40.34`	`DTRemenak`	`erg`
`00:40.36`	`Elspuddy`	`freebsd`
`00:40.39`	`DTRemenak`	`what does curl-config get you?`
`00:40.47`	`Tupone`	`do you have gl`
`00:40.51`	`*** join/#bzflag lan56 (lan56@h-68-165-22-236.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net)`
`00:41.01`	`Elspuddy`	`was haveing this problem when i was compleing the server this after noon`
`00:41.05`	`lan56`	`oh wow, 2.0 is finally released!`
`00:41.24`	`Elspuddy`	`freebsd# curl-config`
`00:41.24`	`Elspuddy`	`Usage: curl-config [OPTION]`
`00:41.24`	`Elspuddy`	`Available values for OPTION include:`
`00:41.35`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: hmm, then configure should detect it`
`00:42.02`	`Tupone`	`curl-config --version`
`00:42.08`	`Elspuddy`	`Tupone: not to shoure if i got gl running, i know i got x runing`
`00:42.24`	`Elspuddy`	`libcurl 7.12.1`
`00:42.27`	`Tupone`	`you don't need it running, just need the header and library`
`00:42.40`	`DTRemenak`	`do you get a line when running configure like: checking for curl >= 7.9.5... 7.12.1`
`00:43.26`	`Elspuddy`	`checking for GL/glx.h... (cached) no`
`00:43.26`	`Elspuddy`	`checking for SDL/SDL.h... (cached) no`
`00:44.02`	`Elspuddy`	`configure: warning: bzAdmin build has been requested, but GL is not fully available (missing gl.h)`
`00:44.03`	`Elspuddy`	`... disabling bzAdmin generation`
`00:45.13`	`JeffM2501`	`you need that gl`
`00:46.03`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@dialup-4.158.201.162.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net)`
`00:46.16`	`Elspuddy`	`DTRemenak: nope, noe checking for curl`
`00:46.33`	`JeffM2501`	`what would admin use curl for DTRemenak?`
`00:46.55`	`DTRemenak`	`JeffM2501: he mentioned running a server also. bzfs uses it.`
`00:47.01`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh ok`
`00:47.03`	`JeffM2501`	`then yeah`
`00:47.21`	`*** join/#bzflag lordbrocktree (~43a41b63@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`00:47.35`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: grep my_cv_curl_vers config.log`
`00:47.41`	`*** join/#bzflag Timpson (~TimpsonTe@68.95.101.6)`
`00:47.45`	`JeffM2501`	`it's like when you pour water on an anthill :)`
`00:48.02`	`JeffM2501`	`or maybe the cats and a can opener :)`
`00:48.49`	`Elspuddy`	`freebsd# grep my_cv_curl_vers config.log`
`00:48.49`	`Elspuddy`	`freebsd#`
`00:48.58`	`Timpson`	`hello all`
`00:49.10`	`Elspuddy`	`hi Timpson`
`00:49.27`	`Timpson`	`tried to download 2.0 at home and there is some error at sourceforge`
`00:49.38`	`Timpson`	`is there another download sorce`
`00:49.40`	`JeffM2501`	`SF is doing mirror updates`
`00:49.44`	`Timpson`	`source?`
`00:49.45`	`JeffM2501`	`in the topic`
`00:49.56`	`Timpson`	`ah, okay`
`00:49.57`	`JeffM2501`	`of this channel`
`00:50.24`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: that's odd`
`00:50.37`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: grep curl config.log`
`00:50.52`	`lordbrocktree`	`slow today`
`00:51.03`	`Elspuddy`	`DTRemenak: same thing`
`00:51.27`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: very strange.`
`00:52.42`	`DTRemenak`	`grep -c curl configure ?`
`00:52.49`	`DTRemenak`	`without the ? of course`
`00:53.12`	`Elspuddy`	`grep: curl: invalid context length argument`
`00:54.09`	`DTRemenak`	`erg`
`00:54.11`	`*** join/#bzflag Silver[a] (SilverFox@68-116-47-254.or.charter.com)`
`00:54.46`	`DTRemenak`	`grep --version \| head -n 1`
`00:55.12`	`Elspuddy`	`grep (GNU grep) 2.5.1-FreeBSD`
`00:55.24`	`DTRemenak`	`heh. and it doesn't like -c?`
`00:55.54`	`DTRemenak`	`grep --help and find out how to count the number of matching lines without printing every matching line :)`
`00:56.22`	`DTRemenak`	`or you could try grep --count curl configure`
`00:57.02`	`Elspuddy`	`30`
`00:57.06`	`DTRemenak`	`hmmm`
`00:57.11`	`DTRemenak`	`I get 35 here :)`
`00:58.04`	`DTRemenak`	`grep "eval curl-config --version" configure`
`00:58.36`	`Tupone`	`grep curl configure \| wc -l`
`00:59.16`	`DTRemenak`	`Tupone: what's the advantage of that over grep --count?`
`00:59.32`	`Tupone`	`I didn't finish reading :)`
`00:59.37`	`DTRemenak`	`ah :)`
`00:59.58`	`Tupone`	`go sleeping then :/`
`01:00.02`	`Tupone`	`nite all`
`01:00.05`	`*** part/#bzflag Tupone (Tupone@adsl-84-222-137-63.tiscali.it)`
`01:00.51`	`*** join/#bzflag S1gn (~ngis@bzq-82-81-68-231.red.bezeqint.net)`
`01:01.17`	`S1gn`	`please help, where to put maps for windoze version of bzflag?`
`01:01.31`	`Elspuddy`	`if eval curl-config --version >/dev/null >/dev/null; then`
`01:04.17`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: that looks good. wonder why it's not running that test`
`01:04.55`	`Elspuddy`	`pass as well`
`01:05.16`	`Elspuddy`	`<-- know how to run and compile sruff on freebsd and thats about ti`
`01:07.29`	`Sporty`	`~seen Nidhoggr`
`01:07.30`	`ibot`	`nidhoggr is currently on #bzflag. Has said a total of 776 messages. Is idling for 1h 54m 36s`
`01:07.34`	`Sporty`	`hrm`
`01:07.37`	`Elspuddy`	`maby i need to tell ./configure that i want curl ?`
`01:08.05`	`S1gn`	`hello.... I don't have windows to try, can anybody help?`
`01:08.24`	`shorty114`	`anywhere`
`01:08.29`	`shorty114`	`if you're using bzfs...`
`01:08.42`	`shorty114`	`but starting a map in-game, i dunno.`
`01:08.58`	`S1gn`	`some guy with windoze version asks where to put maps there`
`01:09.00`	`shorty114`	`on mac it's /path/to/BZFlag-2.0.app/Contents/resources/`
`01:09.08`	`shorty114`	`i believe`
`01:09.42`	`S1gn`	`hmmm should I try it in wine :)`
`01:18.47`	`Elspuddy`	`DTRemenak: would this issue be because i compiled bzfs before ?`
`01:18.47`	`ViPeR`	`7mp3 [Gwar - nitro burning funny bong] 7- (3:29/128kbps) 7stuff`
`01:19.09`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: I don't think so.`
`01:19.20`	`DTRemenak`	`it should run that test and determine that you have curl and enable it.`
`01:19.45`	`Elspuddy`	`is there a way of telling confiure to look for curl ?`
`01:20.03`	`DTRemenak`	`you can try ./configure --with-curl and see if that helps, but I kind of doubt it will.`
`01:20.13`	`DTRemenak`	`unless you ran ./configure --without-curl before`
`01:21.01`	`Pizbit`	`curl is a PITA`
`01:21.15`	`Pizbit`	`I gave up, no matter what curl packages I installed it wouldn't be picked up by configure:)`
`01:21.54`	`Pizbit`	`I had to use the debian package.`
`01:21.59`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: the other thing you can try is to do ./autogen.sh first...regenerate the configure script`
`01:22.26`	`DTRemenak`	`it could be that there are some things in there that are less than platform-neutral`
`01:22.36`	`Elspuddy`	`freebsd# ./autogen.sh`
`01:22.36`	`Elspuddy`	`aclocal: not found`
`01:22.42`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`01:23.02`	`DTRemenak`	`you'd need autoconf and automake from ports to do that, I forgot`
`01:24.13`	`Elspuddy`	`hmmm`
`01:24.20`	`Elspuddy`	`usr/local/share/autoconf259`
`01:24.32`	`Elspuddy`	`usr/ports/devel/autoconf213`
`01:25.44`	`*** join/#bzflag InfernoPyrotechn (~4470abed@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`01:26.23`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`hi all`
`01:27.18`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`anyone alive today?`
`01:27.25`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`01:27.31`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`oh`
`01:27.43`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`when did you die?`
`01:27.51`	`JeffM2501`	`1803`
`01:27.58`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`WOW`
`01:28.13`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`I'm actually speaking to a ghost`
`01:28.25`	`JeffM2501`	`there have allways been ghosts in the machine`
`01:28.42`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`what was it like back then, i could get in the papers for this`
`01:28.56`	`JeffM2501`	`noone would belive you`
`01:29.05`	`JeffM2501`	`and the men in white suits would come take you away`
`01:29.09`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`You'd make them, woudn't you`
`01:29.09`	`JeffM2501`	`it was the same as it is now`
`01:29.16`	`JeffM2501`	`no flying cars`
`01:29.23`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`oh,`
`01:29.29`	`DTRemenak`	`no cars at all for that matter`
`01:29.41`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: yeah, those two will work`
`01:29.43`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`i'm not thinking future, i'm thinking past`
`01:29.43`	`JeffM2501`	`well not that the history books will show`
`01:29.52`	`JeffM2501`	`it was all about the power of steam!`
`01:30.01`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`sure`
`01:30.06`	`Elspuddy`	`DTRemenak: thik one of them is all ready installed and still geting the same error`
`01:30.15`	`JeffM2501`	`all throught history humans have been proices flying cars by the 21st`
`01:30.20`	`JeffM2501`	`I dn't see any flying cars`
`01:30.24`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: that error means that autoconf is not there`
`01:30.24`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`they had steam cars back then`
`01:31.52`	`JeffM2501`	`we had many things that would boggle your mind`
`01:32.15`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`sure, but we have more things that are going to boggle YOUR mind`
`01:32.45`	`JeffM2501`	`when you've seen over 200 years of human history, its hard to boggle anyting`
`01:32.55`	`JeffM2501`	`specialy when you have become one with infinity`
`01:33.16`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`You talk like a ghost`
`01:33.18`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`NOT`
`01:33.31`	`JeffM2501`	`how ever so whitty`
`01:33.34`	`DTRemenak`	`InfernoPyrotechn: he told you that you wouldn't believe him`
`01:33.34`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`which comp are you current;y haunting`
`01:33.43`	`DTRemenak`	`InfernoPyrotechn: I've seen him, he's real.`
`01:33.43`	`JeffM2501`	`how many other ghosts have you spoken too?`
`01:33.55`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`none for that matter`
`01:34.00`	`JeffM2501`	`infinity gets the internet`
`01:34.07`	`DTRemenak`	`InfernoPyrotechn: so how do you know how they talk?`
`01:34.09`	`orange`	`if I have ncurses installed but configure won't see it, how can I force it to try? It doesn't even seem to be testing for it`
`01:34.10`	`JeffM2501`	`then how can you know what a ghost speaks like, to do a comparison`
`01:34.24`	`JeffM2501`	`and you can be dead and not a ghost :)`
`01:34.31`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`what are you talking bout`
`01:34.32`	`JeffM2501`	`pehar the undead`
`01:34.46`	`JeffM2501`	`orange, make sure it's in your include paths`
`01:34.46`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`i don't see no ghost`
`01:34.48`	`JeffM2501`	`then run your config`
`01:35.05`	`JeffM2501`	`DTRemenak, a number of things seem screey :)`
`01:35.10`	`orange`	`/usr/include/ncurses.h`
`01:35.21`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`what?`
`01:35.28`	`JeffM2501`	`what's config checking for?`
`01:35.36`	`DTRemenak`	`orange: try regenerating configure. ./autogen.sh or just autoconf from the root bzflag dir.`
`01:35.39`	`JeffM2501`	`InfernoPyrotechn, it's a conversion not directed at you.`
`01:35.39`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`i didn't know ghosts talked like thaqt`
`01:35.47`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`i know`
`01:35.53`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`what's the orange mean?`
`01:36.00`	`Elspuddy`	`DTRemenak: just asked on a freebsd channell and thay said maby i could defin it in the make file ?`
`01:36.00`	`InfernoPyrotechn`	`when someone talks`
`01:36.03`	`JeffM2501`	`techincaly I'm a lich not a ghost`
`01:36.18`	`orange`	`(note, I'm trying for a server-only setup)`
`01:36.34`	`JeffM2501`	`then it's fine, it just is used for bzadmin`
`01:36.37`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: if you're sure you have it installed properly, you can change include/config.h`
`01:36.50`	`orange`	`I want bzadmin :-)`
`01:36.54`	`JeffM2501`	`and techicnaly bzadmin dosn't NEED curses, it'll use stdIO as well`
`01:36.54`	`DTRemenak`	`we don't define stuff in the Makefiles, that's just dirty :)`
`01:36.57`	`orange`	`I mean, I can live without it, but I'd like it`
`01:37.00`	`Elspuddy`	`DTRemenak: all i compiled the first time was the bzfs`
`01:37.14`	`JeffM2501`	`orange, what part of curses is it looking for?`
`01:37.15`	`orange`	`or is bzadmin not done when you use --disable-client ?`
`01:37.24`	`JeffM2501`	`don't remember`
`01:37.30`	`orange`	`JeffM2501: I don't know... it just says "no curses!" at the end`
`01:37.45`	`orange`	`I know I don't have sdl, and I don't want to install the 30 other packages to get to sdl`
`01:37.50`	`JeffM2501`	`posibly old version?`
`01:37.51`	`orange`	`but I have libcurl and ncurses`
`01:37.59`	`JeffM2501`	`you don't need sdl`
`01:38.04`	`orange`	`ncurses-5.4-r5`
`01:38.13`	`orange`	`(should be quite new.. just installed it a day or two ago)`
`01:38.21`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: after you know that GL and so on are set up right, after the last time you run configure before building, change the lines that defines "HAVE_CURL" (or "USE_CURL") and "HAVE_CURL_CURL_H" in config.h`
`01:38.45`	`DTRemenak`	`but first you need to have GL set up right`
`01:39.58`	`orange`	`./autogen.sh && ./configure --disable-client && grep -c curses config.log`
`01:39.59`	`orange`	`0`
`01:40.08`	`orange`	`I just can't figure out why it isn't even trying to test it`
`01:40.10`	`Elspuddy`	`/* Define if using libcurl */`
`01:40.10`	`Elspuddy`	`/* #undef HAVE_CURL */`
`01:40.24`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: yeah, change that to #define HAVE_CURL 1`
`01:40.36`	`DTRemenak`	`but if you run ./configure after you change it, it will change it back`
`01:41.19`	`Elspuddy`	`can;t i just do a make ?`
`01:41.27`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: if you have GL set up`
`01:41.33`	`DTRemenak`	`and configure finds GL`
`01:41.45`	`DTRemenak`	`otherwise bzadmin will be turned off too`
`01:41.54`	`Elspuddy`	`dont think i have GL set up`
`01:42.04`	`DTRemenak`	`ports/graphics/mesagl`
`01:42.08`	`DTRemenak`	`it's big`
`01:42.24`	`Elspuddy`	`DTRemenak: cant be as big as kde ;)`
`01:42.33`	`DTRemenak`	`Elspuddy: no, no it's not ;)`
`01:43.05`	`Elspuddy`	`AAAAHHH`
`01:43.06`	`Elspuddy`	`===> Mesa-5.0.1_3 is unnecessary because libGL and libGLU come with XFree86 4.0 and higher.`
`01:46.58`	`*** join/#bzflag shorty114 (~shorty114@shorty114.user)`
`01:47.14`	`*** join/#bzflag shorty114 (~shorty114@shorty114.user)`
`01:48.10`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar_ (~foo@adsl-64-175-248-131.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`01:49.07`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar_ (~foo@adsl-64-175-248-131.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`01:49.23`	`*** join/#bzflag lan56 (lan56@h-68-165-22-236.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net)`
`01:51.09`	`*** join/#bzflag AndySchnopps (~AndyII@dcn242-33.dcn.davis.ca.us)`
`01:51.21`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@2002:45a5:3b8f:0:0:0:0:1)`
`01:51.38`	`shorty114`	`bryjen!!!!!`
`01:51.55`	`wegstar_`	`d`
`01:52.33`	`bryjen`	`who wha?`
`01:57.25`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar_ (~foo@adsl-64-175-248-131.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`01:58.20`	`shorty114`	`just welcoming you, bryjen :)`
`01:58.35`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar_ (~foo@adsl-64-175-248-131.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`01:58.36`	`JeffM2501`	`they've been jumpy like that today`
`01:58.44`	`JeffM2501`	`I think they got into a pile of pixie stix`
`01:58.44`	`bryjen`	`uhm, ok`
`01:59.11`	`*** part/#bzflag wegstar_ (~foo@adsl-64-175-248-131.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`01:59.19`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar_ (~foo@adsl-64-175-248-131.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`01:59.24`	`JeffM2501`	`remember to aim for the center of mass`
`01:59.25`	`bryjen`	`when they start sniffing them, its time to go`
`01:59.34`	`*** part/#bzflag wegstar_ (~foo@adsl-64-175-248-131.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`02:00.31`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar_ (~Mozilla@adsl-64-175-248-131.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`02:02.50`	`wegstar_`	`can someone please post up their server config at pastebin..? I have to do some comparing...`
`02:03.26`	`JeffM2501`	`what features do you want?`
`02:03.34`	`JeffM2501`	`there is a simple config in /misc`
`02:03.49`	`wegstar_`	`It's old... apparently`
`02:03.58`	`JeffM2501`	`does something not work?`
`02:04.15`	`wegstar_`	`yeah.. .you know my problem :)`
`02:04.33`	`JeffM2501`	`does it work if oyu just do -public ?`
`02:04.42`	`wegstar_`	`let me try`
`02:04.48`	`JeffM2501`	`that's the simplest config`
`02:04.52`	`JeffM2501`	`with a description`
`02:04.53`	`JeffM2501`	`of course`
`02:05.30`	`wegstar_`	`ibot could connect earlier.. but people can't spawn`
`02:05.50`	`JeffM2501`	`allways start with the simplest thing you can`
`02:06.22`	`shorty114`	`and work up.`
`02:06.58`	`wegstar_`	`there`
`02:07.14`	`shorty114`	`do a ~bzfquery to check first`
`02:07.17`	`wegstar_`	`~bzfquery node.game-server.cc:5154`
`02:07.19`	`shorty114`	`then try to join ingame`
`02:07.24`	`wegstar_`	`hmm`
`02:07.24`	`shorty114`	`ok`
`02:07.29`	`shorty114`	`it works...`
`02:07.35`	`JeffM2501`	`join and see`
`02:07.47`	`shorty114`	`join ingame and we'll see if it actually works :)`
`02:07.54`	`JeffM2501`	`I can't`
`02:08.12`	`wegstar_`	`works perfectly`
`02:08.17`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`02:08.23`	`JeffM2501`	`then turn on a couple things at a time`
`02:08.28`	`JeffM2501`	`find out when it geeks`
`02:08.31`	`JeffM2501`	`or show me your config`
`02:08.33`	`shorty114`	`geeks?`
`02:08.38`	`shorty114`	`i haven't heard that one before...`
`02:08.38`	`JeffM2501`	`stops working`
`02:08.47`	`JeffM2501`	`then you don't get out much`
`02:08.58`	`wegstar_`	`ok`
`02:09.33`	`shorty114`	`or i dont' hang out around #jeffm2501 much :)`
`02:09.41`	`JeffM2501`	`huh?`
`02:09.44`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a common term`
`02:10.47`	`JeffM2501`	`it means break`
`02:10.50`	`JeffM2501`	`stop`
`02:10.55`	`JeffM2501`	`that kind of stuff`
`02:11.44`	`JeffM2501`	`it's the verb version of the word`
`02:13.02`	`wegstar_`	`hmm`
`02:13.43`	`wegstar_`	`vetoTime does not work, even though that is out of the scope of my problem :(`
`02:13.52`	`wegstar_`	`bad argument`
`02:14.08`	`JeffM2501`	`I think that was moved to a var`
`02:14.14`	`JeffM2501`	`so it could be chaged at runtime`
`02:14.19`	`wegstar_`	`ah`
`02:14.28`	`Pizbit`	`JeffM2501: Heh, not common here:)`
`02:14.45`	`bryjen`	`~dict geek`
`02:15.16`	`JeffM2501`	`somone who swallows bugs`
`02:15.39`	`JeffM2501`	`guu dict geek`
`02:15.40`	`guu`	`JeffM2501: wn, jargon, and foldoc responded: foldoc: geek {computer geek}; wn: geek n 1: a carnival performer who does disgusting acts 2: a person with an unusual or odd personality [syn: {eccentric}, {eccentric person}, {flake}, {oddball}]; jargon: geek n. A person who has chosen concentration rather than conformity; one who pursues skill (especially technical skill) and imagination, not (4 more messages)`
`02:15.46`	`JeffM2501`	`guu more`
`02:15.46`	`guu`	JeffM2501: mainstream social acceptance. Geeks usually have a strong case of {neophilia}. Most geeks are adept with computers and treat {hacker} as a term of respect, but not all are hackers themselves - and some who _are_ in fact hackers normally call themselves geeks anyway, because they (quite properly) regard `hacker' as a label that should be bestowed by others rather than self-assumed. One (3 more messages)
`02:15.48`	`JeffM2501`	`guu more`
`02:15.49`	`guu`	JeffM2501: description (http://www.darkwater.com/omni/geek.html) accurately if a little breathlessly enumerates "gamers, ravers, science fiction fans, punks, perverts, programmers, nerds, subgenii, and trekkies. These are people who did not go to their high school proms, and many would be offended by the suggestion that they should have even wanted to." Originally, a `geek' was a carnival performer who (2 more messages)
`02:15.51`	`JeffM2501`	`guu more`
`02:15.51`	`guu`	JeffM2501: bit the heads off chickens. Before about 1990 usage of this term was rather negative. Earlier versions of this lexicon defined a `computer geek' as one who eats (computer) bugs for a living - an asocial, malodorous, pasty-faced monomaniac with all the personality of a cheese grater. This is often still the way geeks are regarded by non-geeks, but as the mainstream culture becomes more (1 more message)
`02:15.55`	`JeffM2501`	`guu more`
`02:15.55`	`guu`	JeffM2501: dependent on technology and technical skill mainstream attitudes have tended to shift towards grudging respect. Correspondingly, there are now `geek pride' festivals (the implied reference to `gay pride' is not accidental). See also {propeller head}, {clustergeeking}, {geek out}, {wannabee}, {terminal junkie}, {spod}, {weenie}, {geek code}
`02:17.04`	`lan56`	`wow, got the 2.0 source code all good, 2.0 runs like a charm for me, now it's time to reimplement the cheats for 2.0 from my 1.10 build :) jk`
`02:17.16`	`JeffM2501`	`weak`
`02:17.31`	`wegstar_`	`guess you're right JeffM about lan56 ;)`
`02:17.52`	`wegstar_`	`what's replay?`
`02:17.56`	`JeffM2501`	`call em like I see me`
`02:17.57`	`JeffM2501`	`em`
`02:18.16`	`shorty114`	`lan56: i know who to watch on viper's server now :)`
`02:18.43`	`wegstar_`	`?`
`02:19.04`	`lan56`	`wegstar: what did jeffm say behind my back, if I may ask?`
`02:20.13`	`bryjen`	`yeesh. bz2.0 on this win xp pro sp2 fails to even start. one of those "send report to ms" dialogs :(`
`02:20.43`	`bryjen`	`shurely i don't need to reboot`
`02:20.56`	`Pizbit`	`Only 5 times.`
`02:21.29`	`bryjen`	`who made the 'doze packages? DTR?`
`02:21.59`	`bryjen`	`eh, they can't be bad tho, or we'd be flooded with complaints`
`02:22.31`	`Pizbit`	`hehe`
`02:24.32`	`*** part/#bzflag kpreid (~kpreid@69-169-188-143.bflony.adelphia.net)`
`02:24.58`	`*** join/#bzflag bz9975 (~44a516ec@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`02:32.16`	`wegstar_`	`nothing`
`02:32.20`	`wegstar_`	`oh well`
`02:42.51`	`*** join/#bzflag _bubbles_ (~nadic666@Toronto-HSE-ppp3943023.sympatico.ca)`
`02:44.02`	`*** join/#bzflag djlawler97531 (~David@pool-151-197-43-36.phil.east.verizon.net)`
`02:46.04`	`*** part/#bzflag djlawler97531 (~David@pool-151-197-43-36.phil.east.verizon.net)`
`02:46.38`	`*** join/#bzflag djlawler97531 (~David@pool-151-197-43-36.phil.east.verizon.net)`
`02:47.52`	`*** part/#bzflag djlawler97531 (~David@pool-151-197-43-36.phil.east.verizon.net)`
`02:47.53`	`*** join/#bzflag djlawler97531 (~David@pool-151-197-43-36.phil.east.verizon.net)`
`02:48.17`	`*** join/#bzflag AndySchnopps (~AndyII@dcn242-33.dcn.davis.ca.us)`
`02:53.54`	`wegstar`	`~bzfquery node.game-server.cc:5154`
`02:54.03`	`*** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~stevek@AC85239F.ipt.aol.com)`
`02:55.10`	`sgk284`	`hello :)`
`02:55.50`	`cods`	`~bzfquery bzflag3.tuxee.net:45155`
`02:55.57`	`*** join/#bzflag doughecka_ (~Doug@adsl-18-107-92.sdf.bellsouth.net)`
`02:56.54`	`cods`	`'O' for observer, 'X' for player ?`
`02:57.03`	`cods`	`and 'K'.. hmm..`
`02:57.17`	`cods`	`rabbit?`
`03:04.59`	`*** part/#bzflag djlawler97531 (~David@pool-151-197-43-36.phil.east.verizon.net)`
`03:06.45`	`*** join/#bzflag djlawler97531 (~David@pool-151-197-43-36.phil.east.verizon.net)`
`03:10.49`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@dialup-4.158.201.162.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net)`
`03:12.58`	`bryjen`	`cods: rabbit chase was origionally King of the Hill`
`03:13.09`	`bryjen`	`X is for rogue`
`03:14.03`	`*** part/#bzflag djlawler97531 (~David@pool-151-197-43-36.phil.east.verizon.net)`
`03:14.25`	`bryjen`	`updating the ATI drivers on my winxp laptop fixed the crash. closer examination reveal the error message was about an ati GL dll`
`03:14.53`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`03:21.19`	`*** join/#bzflag Daddo (~David@pool-151-197-43-36.phil.east.verizon.net)`
`03:27.46`	`*** join/#bzflag MeBigFatGuy (dave@balt-209-150-116-130.dynamic-dial.qis.net)`
`03:28.59`	`*** join/#bzflag AndySchnopps (~AndyII@dcn242-33.dcn.davis.ca.us)`
`03:29.42`	`*** part/#bzflag AndySchnopps (~AndyII@dcn242-33.dcn.davis.ca.us)`
`03:36.27`	`*** join/#bzflag noyb (~noyb@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net)`
`03:37.03`	`*** part/#bzflag Daddo (~David@pool-151-197-43-36.phil.east.verizon.net)`
`03:37.07`	`noyb`	`hi there! has it been busy here lately for some reason?`
`03:37.31`	`noyb`	`or is everyone out playing in celebration... :)`
`03:39.41`	`Pizbit`	`Good idea!`
`03:41.53`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`hmmm, new pngs?`
`03:42.16`	`JeffM2501`	`proably just cus of the major version update`
`03:42.25`	`JeffM2501`	`you may be redownloading them`
`03:43.23`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`just d/led yesterday`
`03:43.23`	`*** join/#bzflag SilverFox (SilverFox@68-116-47-254.or.charter.com)`
`03:43.26`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`after release`
`03:43.30`	`JeffM2501`	`odd`
`03:43.42`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`seems like all the pngs coming down again`
`03:43.45`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`and wavs`
`03:44.01`	`JeffM2501`	`all the binarys?`
`03:44.13`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`shrug -- so far`
`03:44.43`	`JeffM2501`	`SF may have changed stuff and changed mod dates`
`03:44.47`	`JeffM2501`	`or something`
`03:44.55`	`JeffM2501`	`or did enable_screw_dialupusers`
`03:45.27`	`*** join/#bzflag Daddo (~David@pool-151-197-43-36.phil.east.verizon.net)`
`03:46.23`	`*** part/#bzflag Daddo (~David@pool-151-197-43-36.phil.east.verizon.net)`
`03:50.16`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007_ (~blast@dialup-4.159.80.221.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net)`
`03:50.25`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`could be`
`03:52.41`	`JeffM2501`	`anyone know the prototype for the [] operator?`
`03:52.59`	`JeffM2501`	`thingy& operator[] ( int ); ?`
`03:54.03`	`JeffM2501`	`or where a list of the operators are?`
`03:56.49`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`i think so`
`03:57.11`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`iirc there's a slight difference between lhs and rhs operator[]`
`03:57.22`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`perhaps depending on whether you return const thingy& or not`
`03:57.28`	`SportChick`	`if one turns verticle velocity on, how do you turn it back off?`
`03:59.37`	`*** join/#bzflag mozul (~Kirk@ca-redbch-cuda1-c5b-b-192.stmnca.adelphia.net)`
`04:00.43`	`mozul`	`hello, where can I find the docs for bzflag 2.0? When I go to the docs link that it installs, windows goes into search mode`
`04:01.09`	`mozul`	`specifically I need documentation of all the /commands possible in this version.`
`04:02.05`	`JeffM2501`	`http://my.bzflag.org/bzfman.cgi`
`04:02.16`	`JeffM2501`	`linked from http://www.bzflag.org/wiki/GettingHelp`
`04:04.52`	`mozul`	`hmm Where can I find a list of all the variables that can be modified with /set?`
`04:05.18`	`mozul`	`(im trying to edit and make sure that this is up to date: http://www.bzflag.org/wiki/KeysAndCommands`
`04:06.11`	`JeffM2501`	`type /set :)`
`04:06.15`	`JeffM2501`	`bzfs lists them in game`
`04:08.52`	`mozul`	`how can I get a list OUT of game?`
`04:09.20`	`SportChick`	`anyone have any idea why several of the secretplace admins can't log in as admins?`
`04:09.58`	`sgk284`	`ping nidhoggr`
`04:10.11`	`JeffM2501`	`probably group setings`
`04:10.12`	`sgk284`	`SportChick, i'd assume its a permissions or bzbb thing...`
`04:10.20`	`JeffM2501`	`bzbb stores NO permisions`
`04:10.26`	`JeffM2501`	`never has`
`04:10.28`	`JeffM2501`	`never will`
`04:10.30`	`sgk284`	`i.e. wrong passwords, different names, or the permissions nid set for them`
`04:10.31`	`JeffM2501`	`just groups`
`04:10.32`	`Nidhoggr`	`it stores groups`
`04:10.48`	`Nidhoggr`	`do they have + in front of their callsigns?`
`04:10.49`	`sgk284`	`JeffM2501, i was referring to local perms but thanks:)`
`04:10.55`	`sgk284`	`wiz did`
`04:10.58`	`JeffM2501`	`then it's not bzbb :)`
`04:11.03`	`mozul`	`yes but no @`
`04:11.11`	`sgk284`	`lol`
`04:11.24`	`SportChick`	`how do you unset a group?`
`04:11.28`	`orchid`	`mozul: you can run the game echo'd to a file bzflag -echo > vars.txt and type /set right off the bat, then edit that file.`
`04:11.35`	`JeffM2501`	`remove the person from the group`
`04:11.48`	`JeffM2501`	`via the bzbb usergroups page`
`04:12.01`	`JeffM2501`	`only the group moderator, or the person in the group can do that`
`04:12.09`	`mozul`	`orchid can I do that in windows?`
`04:12.15`	`JeffM2501`	`or me`
`04:12.21`	`Nidhoggr`	`wiz should be fixed.`
`04:12.22`	`JeffM2501`	`mozul: log in with bzdamin`
`04:12.23`	`Nidhoggr`	`anyone else?`
`04:12.23`	`orchid`	`mozul: yep, windows does redirects I think`
`04:12.28`	`JeffM2501`	`umm`
`04:12.29`	`JeffM2501`	`tim`
`04:12.33`	`JeffM2501`	`and learner`
`04:12.35`	`sgk284`	`&THEMAN`
`04:12.40`	`sgk284`	`err *THEMAN`
`04:12.42`	`JeffM2501`	`I think that's it`
`04:12.53`	`JeffM2501`	`and anyone who sends me a mac mini`
`04:12.54`	`Nidhoggr`	`I have to see if his callsign is in there...`
`04:13.21`	`SportChick`	`I just added *THEMAN, but had two adds to wrong groups and need to know how to fix`
`04:13.23`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm there now nid, want me to check for you?`
`04:13.25`	`Nidhoggr`	`theman should be fixed.`
`04:13.36`	`Nidhoggr`	`I'm there, too. :)`
`04:13.40`	`sgk284`	`~nidhoggr++`
`04:13.48`	`sgk284`	`~sportchick++`
`04:13.55`	`JeffM2501`	`(sigh) the names some people try to register.....`
`04:14.00`	`JeffM2501`	`".?."`
`04:14.10`	`sgk284`	`lol`
`04:14.32`	`Nidhoggr`	`it's a quail :)`
`04:14.33`	`JeffM2501`	`"guest"`
`04:14.57`	`JeffM2501`	`"tim riker"`
`04:15.18`	`sgk284`	`heh`
`04:15.57`	`Nidhoggr`	`ow`
`04:16.27`	`DTRemenak`	`I used a somewhat more colorful expression, but the same general sentiment`
`04:16.32`	`orchid`	`mozul: http://bzgirl.bzflag.org/pub/var.txt`
`04:17.10`	`mozul`	`thanks orchid!`
`04:17.31`	`mozul`	`are there new "/" commands that I can document too?`
`04:17.31`	`orchid`	`mozul: thats some random server I just joined though`
`04:17.37`	`JeffM2501`	`did it invove the term "other"`
`04:17.41`	`orchid`	`so they might not all be at defaults`
`04:17.51`	`JeffM2501`	`and start with the letter "m"`
`04:18.00`	`noyb`	`is there a /save worldname command? didn't check while I was playing just now...`
`04:18.06`	`mozul`	`ok`
`04:19.29`	`*** join/#bzflag bh445 (1003@c-67-168-158-106.client.comcast.net)`
`04:19.59`	`orchid`	`I have that`
`04:20.13`	`noyb`	`hey, here's something I thought that 2.0 was trying to avoid: my client would not start up today behind the firewall.`
`04:20.13`	`JeffM2501`	`oooo`
`04:20.16`	`JeffM2501`	`checking navi`
`04:20.32`	`JeffM2501`	`it starting has nothing to do with a firewall`
`04:20.35`	`JeffM2501`	`it may hang for a timeout`
`04:20.38`	`JeffM2501`	`but then go on`
`04:20.39`	`noyb`	`I pulled out my network cable and the client would start.`
`04:20.49`	`JeffM2501`	`are you behind a proxy?`
`04:20.59`	`noyb`	`yes, proxy`
`04:21.03`	`JeffM2501`	`that's difrent`
`04:21.12`	`JeffM2501`	`bzflag does not support non-transperant proxys`
`04:21.21`	`JeffM2501`	`don't play games at work`
`04:21.37`	`noyb`	`lunch time... pulling the cable is fine for now.`
`04:21.44`	`orange`	`JeffM2501: are you the right one to ask about groups on bzbb?`
`04:21.48`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`04:21.55`	`JeffM2501`	`or nid`
`04:21.57`	`JeffM2501`	`or learner`
`04:21.59`	`JeffM2501`	`or tim`
`04:22.01`	`orange`	`are you taking questions here, or do you want me to ask on the forum in a post?`
`04:22.06`	`JeffM2501`	`not that they have done oneyet :)`
`04:22.12`	`JeffM2501`	`anywhere is fine`
`04:22.21`	`JeffM2501`	`I put where it's requested in the group type`
`04:22.33`	`JeffM2501`	`bzbb username?`
`04:22.39`	`orange`	`orange`
`04:22.41`	`Nidhoggr`	`I have, geekboy! :)`
`04:22.45`	`JeffM2501`	`groupname`
`04:22.47`	`JeffM2501`	`you have?`
`04:22.53`	`orange`	`trying to decide the best thing to do, though...`
`04:22.55`	`Nidhoggr`	`look at the groups list`
`04:23.05`	`Nidhoggr`	`I've added 3`
`04:23.14`	`JeffM2501`	`it's in a pulldown, not like I can se it easy :)`
`04:23.16`	`orange`	`first question, though, is about public vs private servers... is it true that the bzbb usernames/groups won't work on public servers?`
`04:23.26`	`JeffM2501`	`huh?`
`04:23.31`	`JeffM2501`	`they only work on public servers`
`04:23.37`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a list server thing`
`04:23.42`	`orange`	`ohhh`
`04:23.46`	`JeffM2501`	`when your private you don't use the list server`
`04:23.53`	`JeffM2501`	`so no tokens for you!`
`04:23.58`	`JeffM2501`	`you have to walk to work`
`04:24.01`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`anyone seen any shockingly good worlds yet?`
`04:24.01`	`orange`	`heh`
`04:24.18`	`JeffM2501`	`I made one with upside down tanks MeBigFatGuy`
`04:24.19`	`orange`	`well, can you have a server register with the list server, but remain hidden? I have seen mention of that at some point.`
`04:24.29`	`JeffM2501`	`no you can not`
`04:24.35`	`*** part/#bzflag mozul (~Kirk@ca-redbch-cuda1-c5b-b-192.stmnca.adelphia.net)`
`04:24.52`	`orange`	`hmph`
`04:24.55`	`bh445`	`anyone here that can help troubleshoot bzflag on linux?`
`04:25.07`	`JeffM2501`	`first you get a big gun`
`04:25.10`	`orange`	`I'm willing to run a match server, but I cannot expose my company servers to the script kiddy masses`
`04:25.10`	`JeffM2501`	`the biger the better`
`04:25.23`	`JeffM2501`	`then no global groups for j00`
`04:25.28`	`orange`	`boohoo`
`04:25.29`	`DTRemenak`	`orange: give it a little while`
`04:25.31`	`orange`	`thanks anyway :-)`
`04:25.40`	`*** join/#bzflag kyelewis[3] (~kyelewis@kyelewis.user)`
`04:25.46`	`noyb`	`instead of pulling my cable to start the client, maybe there could be a 'private client' setting that would not check public stuff.`
`04:25.48`	`DTRemenak`	`my bet is that 2.0.2 will support it.`
`04:25.52`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah sadly since it's tied to the list server, it's a public thing`
`04:25.54`	`JeffM2501`	`probably`
`04:26.00`	`JeffM2501`	`once he decouples it`
`04:26.20`	`JeffM2501`	`noyb: there is a -nomotd or something`
`04:26.21`	`JeffM2501`	`use that`
`04:26.31`	`JeffM2501`	`that will make it not check for the thing at the start`
`04:26.35`	`JeffM2501`	`and wont' geek on you`
`04:26.38`	`orange`	`ok, I'll wait and watch... and I can help test`
`04:26.46`	`orange`	`couldn't he compile without curl?`
`04:26.50`	`orchid\|away`	`bh445: whats wrong?`
`04:26.52`	`JeffM2501`	`or that`
`04:27.13`	`JeffM2501`	`orange: I think a - command is probably faster`
`04:27.24`	`orange`	`if it exists, definitely`
`04:27.35`	`JeffM2501`	`prety sure I did it`
`04:27.41`	`JeffM2501`	`could have been drunk tho`
`04:27.58`	`bh445`	`orchid\|away: i've got the latest 2.0.0 release. when i try to run it as a normal user it seg faults. it runs fine as root`
`04:28.10`	`JeffM2501`	`you don't have perms for something`
`04:28.16`	`JeffM2501`	`probably like the config`
`04:28.21`	`bh445`	`i figured it was a permission problem, i just don't know where`
`04:28.40`	`JeffM2501`	`it's one of a couple things, config, program, or data dir`
`04:28.42`	`noyb`	`JeffM2501: -nomotd on the macosx version?`
`04:28.47`	`orange`	`bh445: did you run it as root the first time?`
`04:28.48`	`JeffM2501`	`that's about all that it uses`
`04:28.57`	`bh445`	`orange: no`
`04:29.03`	`JeffM2501`	`noyb: all the - commands are on ALL versions`
`04:29.06`	`JeffM2501`	`the mac is not special`
`04:29.30`	`purple_cow`	`bh445: run it in strace`
`04:29.36`	`noyb`	`well, how do I start it with the cmd line options on macosx?`
`04:29.46`	`JeffM2501`	`noyb: with the command line terminal`
`04:29.46`	`bh445`	`purple_cow: how do i do that?`
`04:29.52`	`JeffM2501`	`that every single mac ships with`
`04:30.04`	`JeffM2501`	`strace bzflag one would ting bh445`
`04:30.13`	`bh445`	`thanks`
`04:30.36`	`JeffM2501`	`noyb: I know the thought of typing on a mac is scarry, but you'll be ok :)`
`04:30.44`	`noyb`	`I am fully aware of the Terminal app, but in the past... ./bzflag didn't work on my mac`
`04:30.58`	`JeffM2501`	`were you in the right dir?`
`04:31.07`	`noyb`	`yes`
`04:31.07`	`JeffM2501`	`cus doing that in your home dir, won't cut it`
`04:31.11`	`JeffM2501`	`cus bzflag isn't in your home dir`
`04:31.19`	`JeffM2501`	`did you use the -directory option too?`
`04:31.23`	`JeffM2501`	`to set the path?`
`04:31.55`	`bh445`	`interesting....`
`04:32.59`	`*** join/#bzflag Timpson (~TimpsonTe@68.95.101.6)`
`04:33.07`	`bh445`	`i'm getting stat64("/dev/dri/card0", 0xbfffe820) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied) for card0-card14`
`04:33.14`	`Nidhoggr`	`yo tex`
`04:33.19`	`JeffM2501`	`or just replace your MOTD server with a bogus URL`
`04:33.25`	`JeffM2501`	`that will probably get it to crap faster`
`04:33.39`	`bh445`	`but ls -l /dev/dri returns: crw-rw-rw- 1 root root 226, 0 2005-01-18 18:48 card0`
`04:33.46`	`bh445`	`any ideas?`
`04:33.56`	`JeffM2501`	`bh445: you using the DRI video driver?`
`04:34.02`	`JeffM2501`	`or is that your sound card?`
`04:34.21`	`bh445`	`dri video driver, i believe`
`04:34.29`	`JeffM2501`	`eww`
`04:34.40`	`JeffM2501`	`well looks like those are probalby not happy`
`04:34.42`	`bh445`	`JeffM2501: my hardware is ewwww`
`04:35.11`	`JeffM2501`	`noyb: ok simple thing, put this your config "set disableMOTD 1"`
`04:35.16`	`JeffM2501`	`that'll do it`
`04:35.37`	`JeffM2501`	`sadly I am not a master of crapy linux hardware.`
`04:36.04`	`noyb`	`JeffM2501: thanks. cuz I didn't find the -nomotd`
`04:36.08`	`bh445`	`thats ok, it runs as root just fine`
`04:36.11`	`Timpson`	`anyone know when 2.0 will be back up for download?`
`04:36.14`	`JeffM2501`	`seems I did it as a perm`
`04:36.30`	`JeffM2501`	`Timpson: when sf gets all better, there is a mirror link the topic`
`04:36.45`	`bh445`	`but running things as root is not always the best`
`04:36.52`	`JeffM2501`	`nope`
`04:37.02`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe there are newer divers that help`
`04:37.05`	`Timpson`	`because i is a new guy to this`
`04:37.18`	`JeffM2501`	`noone looks up in general :)`
`04:37.19`	`Timpson`	`from now on I will look up :)`
`04:37.36`	`bh445`	`i got an idea, brb`
`04:37.43`	`*** part/#bzflag bh445 (1003@c-67-168-158-106.client.comcast.net)`
`04:38.55`	`Timpson`	`thx JeffM2501, I looked up and saw the light :)`
`04:39.03`	`JeffM2501`	`up is good`
`04:39.09`	`JeffM2501`	`never be afraid to look up`
`04:39.21`	`JeffM2501`	`unless it's at the sun thru a telescope`
`04:39.28`	`JeffM2501`	`cus that's just stoopid`
`04:39.42`	`jpa-`	`jeff still talking here :)`
`04:40.06`	`JeffM2501`	`never give up`
`04:40.09`	`JeffM2501`	`never surender`
`04:41.53`	`JeffM2501`	`wasn't there suposed to be a doting of the slash today?`
`04:44.35`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@2002:45a5:3b8f:0:0:0:0:1)`
`04:44.59`	`noyb`	`hi bryjen... ya just killed me a lot! thx.`
`04:45.16`	`bryjen`	`are we still +R ? and are the mirror healed?`
`04:45.22`	`bryjen`	`yw, anytime ;)`
`04:45.33`	`noyb`	`;)`
`04:46.00`	`JeffM2501`	`back to normal +n`
`04:46.24`	`*** topic/#bzflag by bryjen -> http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz \|\| Thank you, RPG! - http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=26845#26845 \|\| BZFlag 2.0.0 is Released! - Go to http://sf.net/projects/bzflag to download it \|\| Broken mirrors, found also on http://my.bzflag.org/builds/1.11/`
`04:46.53`	`*** join/#bzflag bh445 (1003@c-67-168-158-106.client.comcast.net)`
`04:47.14`	`noyb`	`Is this the Mirror Crusher I spoke of... or is it some other tech problem?`
`04:47.27`	`JeffM2501`	`they started maintance`
`04:47.33`	`noyb`	`ooof`
`04:47.40`	`bh445`	`i've gotten it fixed, thanks for your help :)`
`04:47.44`	`noyb`	`really bad timing I guess.`
`04:47.50`	`JeffM2501`	`during posting of the release`
`04:47.54`	`JeffM2501`	`it was scheduled`
`04:48.04`	`JeffM2501`	`the posters just didn't check it`
`04:48.17`	`Pizbit`	`heh, whoops:)`
`04:48.23`	`bryjen`	`the maintenance was scheduled. the release was ad-hockery`
`04:48.25`	`JeffM2501`	`its' usualy not a problem`
`04:48.26`	`bh445`	`i had forgotten to enable the DRI section of my xorg.conf`
`04:48.43`	`JeffM2501`	`DRI is the root of all evil`
`04:48.47`	`JeffM2501`	`a what?`
`04:49.11`	`bh445`	`it is, i'll be upgrading my video soon, and won't have to deal with it anymore`
`04:49.12`	`noyb`	`still in the battle of the munchkins... after all this time. (including me)`
`04:49.21`	`JeffM2501`	`what card do you have?`
`04:49.35`	`JeffM2501`	`noyb: I am doomed to repeat myself`
`04:49.39`	`noyb`	`~JeffM2501++`
`04:49.41`	`JeffM2501`	`the banhamer just won't let me go`
`04:49.50`	`JeffM2501`	`there was a bonding`
`04:50.03`	`bh445`	`RageFuryPro 32mb AGP and Radeon 7000 64mb DDR PCI`
`04:50.09`	`JeffM2501`	`BURN IT!!!!!`
`04:50.13`	`JeffM2501`	`oh sorry`
`04:50.15`	`JeffM2501`	`old habbit`
`04:50.27`	`noyb`	`the bzflag dev team is great! thank you so much for all of these great features!`
`04:50.27`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (~foo@adsl-64-175-248-131.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`04:50.28`	`JeffM2501`	`be a decent card under any non linux OS`
`04:50.28`	`bh445`	`soon, very soon....`
`04:50.58`	`bh445`	`it works ok, as long as i have xinerama disabled`
`04:51.00`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-10 (~CIA@to.je.spocco.com)`
`04:51.15`	`JeffM2501`	`bh445: I have a PCI one in my G3 mac and it runs just fine`
`04:51.31`	`noyb`	`I've been a fan for about 5 years now, I am surpised every time the new release comes out.`
`04:51.31`	`JeffM2501`	`you are just in the driver hell, cus ATI hates it's customers`
`04:51.35`	`noyb`	`gotta go.`
`04:51.44`	`JeffM2501`	`bryjen: what did you get?`
`04:51.55`	`wegstar`	`JeffM apparently the problem with my server was that I had too many flags :)... working my way up...`
`04:51.55`	`bh445`	`well, almost, ati doesn't make drivers for cards this old`
`04:51.58`	`bryjen`	`oh, its not a recent purchase`
`04:52.21`	`bryjen`	`i went from a voodoo 3000 pci to a radeon 7500 agp`
`04:52.27`	`JeffM2501`	`ATI deceided not to support anything below the 8000, nivida suppoorts all chipsets down to the TNT2`
`04:52.31`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp726 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
`04:52.34`	`JeffM2501`	`BURN THE VOODOOO`
`04:52.37`	`JeffM2501`	`no realy`
`04:52.38`	`JeffM2501`	`now`
`04:52.41`	`wegstar`	`heh`
`04:52.43`	`JeffM2501`	`and I want to see pictures`
`04:52.49`	`bryjen`	`better yet, i sold it to the inlaws ;)`
`04:53.00`	`JeffM2501`	`someone PAID for that?`
`04:53.12`	`bryjen`	`well, it had a PC wrapped around it`
`04:53.23`	`JeffM2501`	`SOMONE PAID FOR THAT?!?!`
`04:53.39`	`bryjen`	`and their old pc didn't have any 3d hardware`
`04:53.51`	`JeffM2501`	`nether does the current one... :)`
`04:53.56`	`JeffM2501`	`budumupbump`
`04:54.00`	`bryjen`	`ayup`
`04:54.09`	`*** join/#bzflag lan56 (lan56@h-68-165-22-236.lsanca54.dynamic.covad.net)`
`04:54.26`	`JeffM2501`	`I think just ate glue`
`04:54.28`	`JeffM2501`	`brb`
`04:54.35`	`bh445`	`thanks for all the help guys, i'm off to dinner and more bzflag :)`
`04:54.39`	`bh445`	`2.0 is great`
`04:55.10`	`wegstar`	`cya :0`
`04:57.29`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp560 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
`05:01.38`	`bryjen`	`lotsa temporary employment opportunities at the cia ;)`
`05:05.08`	`*** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (~4101564c@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`05:05.46`	`QuantumBeep`	`Howdy! You around?`
`05:06.02`	`QuantumBeep`	`Somebody is, I'm sure.`
`05:06.23`	`SportChick`	`if someone gets a message "global login rejected, bad token" what does it mean?`
`05:06.56`	`bryjen`	`their didnt get thier password right`
`05:07.11`	`bryjen`	`like my speeling`
`05:07.11`	`DTRemenak`	`or they're stealing tokens, which isn't very likely`
`05:07.32`	`QuantumBeep`	`Did anyone mention the chat tab bug?`
`05:07.42`	`DTRemenak`	`QuantumBeep: it's already been fixed`
`05:07.45`	`bryjen`	`how long to tokens last? an unlikey case that they sat at the server list too long before joining?`
`05:07.56`	`DTRemenak`	`bryjen: 15 minutes or something`
`05:08.05`	`bryjen`	`shurely not then`
`05:08.56`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp660 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
`05:09.12`	`DTRemenak`	`I don't think he's real :)`
`05:09.17`	`bryjen`	`have there been any other glitches? i now its only been a day, but hopefully any big ones would fall out fast.`
`05:09.48`	`SportChick`	`is there an expiration on activation of callsigns on the forum?`
`05:09.48`	`DTRemenak`	`bryjen: there's a lagwarn bug too, which has been fixed`
`05:10.31`	`QuantumBeep`	`Who actually manages the central registration database?`
`05:10.37`	`bryjen`	`i hope the double-increment was all of the problem. some of that stuff looks hinkey to me.`
`05:10.59`	`DTRemenak`	`heh :)`
`05:11.04`	`DTRemenak`	`feel free to rewrite it all :)`
`05:11.16`	`brlcad`	`indeed :)`
`05:11.38`	`bryjen`	`no, i'll leave that to JeffM`
`05:11.52`	`SportChick`	`I've got someone who registered yesterday but didn't activate until just now and it's rejecting his tokens`
`05:12.38`	`bryjen`	`ask Nid or a bb admin. brlcad?`
`05:13.27`	`*** join/#bzflag creeperz (creeperz@host-40-145-230-24.midco.net)`
`05:14.51`	`SportChick`	`brlcad is being mean to me`
`05:15.14`	`orchid\|away`	`~brlcad--`
`05:15.24`	`SportChick`	`hehe, good idea`
`05:15.37`	`brlcad`	`bryjen: hmm?`
`05:15.50`	`brlcad`	`SportChick: I am not.. just being honest`
`05:15.54`	`SportChick`	`brlcad: I've got someone who registered yesterday but didn't activate until just now and it's rejecting his tokens`
`05:15.59`	`orchid\|away`	`QuantumBeep: the forum does now`
`05:16.36`	`brlcad`	`.. how to make screen scroll right`
`05:16.38`	`bryjen`	`use the door, silly ;)`
`05:17.22`	`brlcad`	`ooo.. i just did it but don't know how`
`05:17.46`	`brlcad`	`did it again.. how the..`
`05:21.05`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp670 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
`05:22.43`	`Nidhoggr`	`SportChick: what user?`
`05:22.50`	`SportChick`	`elrond`
`05:22.55`	`SportChick`	`~Nidhoggr++`
`05:22.56`	`Nidhoggr`	`let me look`
`05:23.02`	`SportChick`	`Nidhoggr: thanks for paying attention to me`
`05:23.04`	`Nidhoggr`	`I just finished the carnelian.`
`05:23.16`	`SportChick`	`~brlcad--`
`05:23.53`	`brlcad`	`awww.. i can't even read your question yet and I'm loosing karma`
`05:24.10`	`bryjen`	`no linewrap?`
`05:24.15`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp818 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
`05:24.39`	`bryjen`	`and you can't figure out how to scroll? bad ui`
`05:25.13`	`brlcad`	`there is no ui.. just magical keystrokes`
`05:26.11`	`Nidhoggr`	`SportChick: have him log on again and see if it works. he might be doing it wrong, because I didn't see anything wrong with his account.`
`05:27.36`	`Nidhoggr`	`I'm watching the log when he does`
`05:27.39`	`TimRiker`	`SportChick: I'm gussing they use an invalid char in the password.`
`05:28.01`	`SportChick`	`still didn't work, Nid`
`05:28.02`	`TimRiker`	`We've not tested more, so the game only allows the small set mentioned in my bb post.`
`05:28.23`	`Nidhoggr`	`he's giving a token`
`05:28.23`	`TimRiker`	`oh.. can't login on the board? I thought you meant the game.`
`05:28.35`	`Nidhoggr`	`he can't log into the game.`
`05:28.40`	`Nidhoggr`	`it's doing a token.`
`05:28.47`	`Nidhoggr`	`I looked at his account on the board.`
`05:29.02`	`SportChick`	`Nid and Tim: he used a password with all alpha-numeric characters`
`05:29.03`	`TimRiker`	`does the server send his IP? and is it the same IP?`
`05:30.06`	`SportChick`	`ingame ip is 147.126.43.144`
`05:30.26`	`Nidhoggr`	`looks like the same one.`
`05:37.35`	`*** join/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@lsn-boi-catv-c113-p155.vtx.ch)`
`05:37.44`	`*** part/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@lsn-boi-catv-c113-p155.vtx.ch)`
`05:39.58`	`SportChick`	`~timriker++`
`05:40.03`	`SportChick`	`~nidhoggr++`
`05:47.18`	`*** join/#bzflag elrond2 (~937e2e91@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`05:47.27`	`SportChick`	`hi!!`
`05:47.39`	`Nidhoggr`	`hi elrond`
`05:48.12`	`TimRiker`	`elrond2: heya. sorry you're having grief.`
`05:48.29`	`TimRiker`	`elrond2: this may sound like greek, but.....`
`05:49.04`	`TimRiker`	`elrond2: your network connections is sending http request through a different route from non-http requests.`
`05:49.35`	`TimRiker`	`this means that the address that the central list server (my.bzflag.org) sees is different from the address that a bzflag server sees.`
`05:49.41`	`elrond2`	`howdy`
`05:50.05`	`TimRiker`	`so the list server thinks someone is trying to steal access to your account and denies the token.`
`05:50.57`	`JeffM2501`	`somone has a transperant proxy`
`05:51.08`	`TimRiker`	`I started the list server on an additional port. so try using "-list http://my.bzflag.org:8000/db/" on the bzflag command line and see if your global login works that way.`
`05:51.17`	`elrond2`	`asdf`
`05:51.23`	`wegstar`	`fdsa`
`05:51.26`	`SportChick`	`he says he can't chat - he can see our messages, but all is loading slowly`
`05:51.29`	`JeffM2501`	`qwerty`
`05:51.36`	`JeffM2501`	`he can type`
`05:51.43`	`wegstar`	`12345`
`05:51.48`	`JeffM2501`	`NINJA!`
`05:51.58`	`wegstar`	`heh`
`05:52.49`	`TimRiker`	`SportChick: have him try the alternate list server port.`
`05:53.21`	`TimRiker`	`Nidhoggr: I suppose a <1024 port might be nice if folks are going to use it often.`
`05:53.29`	`TimRiker`	`thoughts on a port number? 81?`
`05:53.40`	`JeffM2501`	`tis a comon alt port`
`05:54.37`	`TimRiker`	`~port 42`
`05:54.38`	`ibot`	`port 42 is, like, nameserver - Host Name Server`
`05:54.50`	`TimRiker`	`no that I know what that is.`
`05:54.57`	`TimRiker`	`~port 5154`
`05:54.58`	`SportChick`	`tim, do you mind coming back to secretplace - he can't get irc working`
`05:55.08`	`TimRiker`	`SportChick: sure..`
`05:55.21`	`JeffM2501`	`port 42 has to be for answers`
`05:55.24`	`JeffM2501`	`but not questions`
`05:55.30`	`TimRiker`	`~port 81`
`05:55.31`	`ibot`	`port 81 is probably hosts2-ns - HOSTS2 Name Server`
`05:56.11`	`TimRiker`	`~bzflist`
`05:58.07`	`Nidhoggr`	`sorry. was winding cords... 81 is great.`
`05:58.16`	`SportChick`	`has anyone reported this yet: if you are in observer and watching someone who goes burrow, the text types over itself and you can't read it anymore`
`05:58.35`	`*** join/#bzflag MeBigFatGuy (dave@balt-209-150-116-130.dynamic-dial.qis.net)`
`05:58.44`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`the water ring world is insane`
`05:58.53`	`TimRiker`	`ugh.. osx. how do you add options to osk?`
`05:59.08`	`JeffM2501`	`options?`
`05:59.10`	`JeffM2501`	`osk?`
`05:59.18`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`should have a swim flag`
`05:59.28`	`JeffM2501`	`like -whatever?`
`05:59.37`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: yeah. like -list ...`
`05:59.38`	`SportChick`	`mac devs: where is the config file in ox 10`
`05:59.38`	`brlcad`	`TimRiker: you don't`
`05:59.43`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not fun`
`05:59.49`	`JeffM2501`	`easyer to edit the config`
`05:59.51`	`brlcad`	`you double-click`
`06:00.29`	`brlcad`	`if you must, you fire up a terminal and locate the binary and run it directly like a unix app -- which is generally way beyond most mac users abilities`
`06:00.35`	`JeffM2501`	`even on the double click on a PC you can edit command line options`
`06:00.43`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad: just tell them where the config is`
`06:00.46`	`JeffM2501`	`that'll do em`
`06:00.55`	`brlcad`	`editing the config is much easier`
`06:00.56`	`JBdiGriz`	`SportChick: Library/Application Support/BZFlag/2.0`
`06:01.08`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: yeah, talking him through that now.`
`06:01.16`	`SportChick`	`JBdiGriz: thanks`
`06:01.28`	`brlcad`	`Timriker, they can browse to that directory using finder and double-click the config, edit, save`
`06:01.42`	`TimRiker`	`brlcad: he's doing that now...`
`06:01.48`	`JBdiGriz`	`It's different, I can keep an eye on the game while I'm in IRC ;)`
`06:02.09`	`brlcad`	`:)`
`06:04.15`	`JBdiGriz`	`brlcad: I thought we could add options to the plist`
`06:05.41`	`brlcad`	`hrm, perhaps to the plist`
`06:05.59`	`brlcad`	`would be good to know, and news to me`
`06:06.31`	`TimRiker`	`~nslookup 147.126.43.144`
`06:06.42`	`TimRiker`	`~nslookup 147.126.46.145`
`06:06.54`	`TimRiker`	`silly squid box...`
`06:15.03`	`JeffM2501`	`serialised quantum interferance detector?`
`06:18.50`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: he exits bzflag, edits the config to change the list server url, runs bzflag and exits again. it's back to the default value.`
`06:19.16`	`*** join/#bzflag ElectricElf (~david@electricelf.user)`
`06:20.07`	`JeffM2501`	`ewwwww`
`06:20.12`	`TimRiker`	`anyone have osx that can try the list server on a non-default port?`
`06:20.34`	`TimRiker`	`ugh`
`06:21.03`	`brlcad`	`not at my machine right now or I would -- can try later though`
`06:21.04`	`JeffM2501`	`let me see if I have another usb one`
`06:22.06`	`JeffM2501`	`does it work on nix or win?`
`06:22.10`	`JBdiGriz`	`What do you need?`
`06:22.18`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: works here. (linux)`
`06:22.31`	`JeffM2501`	`JBdiGriz has a tosh`
`06:22.48`	`ViPeR`	`sup jeff and tim`
`06:22.53`	`TimRiker`	`JBdiGriz: use http://my.BZFlag.org:81/db/ instead of http://my.BZFlag.org/db/ and see if it sticks in your config.`
`06:24.25`	`JBdiGriz`	`Looks like I have to start it from the command line to specify that option for now ;)`
`06:25.22`	`TimRiker`	`JBdiGriz: if you don't use the option does it return to default value?`
`06:25.27`	`ViPeR`	`is there away i can start my bzfs on my server box by SSH with out conf bzfs.conf file?`
`06:25.46`	`JeffM2501`	`ViPeR: sure`
`06:25.48`	`ViPeR`	`cuz i want to run my server on my server box`
`06:25.55`	`JeffM2501`	`you don't NEED the config`
`06:26.03`	`ViPeR`	`ok`
`06:26.05`	`JeffM2501`	`just put all your options in the command line`
`06:26.17`	`ViPeR`	`ok jeff thanks man`
`06:26.19`	`JeffM2501`	`besure to send it to the background too`
`06:26.22`	`TimRiker`	`but the config is easier. scp one over to the box.`
`06:26.29`	`JeffM2501`	`or it'll quit when you close your ssh window`
`06:26.31`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah config is easyer`
`06:26.47`	`JBdiGriz`	`TimRiker: set list http://my.BZFlag.org:81/db/ is in the config file`
`06:27.00`	`TimRiker`	`JBdiGriz: how does one start bzflag from the command line on a mac?`
`06:27.09`	`JeffM2501`	`open the terminal`
`06:27.17`	`JeffM2501`	`then just like linux`
`06:27.21`	`ViPeR`	`well i dont know how to conf it and it very late and i am starting to sleepy its 1:26 am here btw i am from pennslyvania, usa`
`06:27.23`	`TimRiker`	`and cd where?`
`06:27.32`	`JeffM2501`	`wherever the double click thingy is`
`06:27.38`	`JBdiGriz`	`Actually, I'm using xterm, but that's the idea`
`06:27.39`	`JeffM2501`	`then the double click thingy is realy a dir`
`06:27.41`	`JeffM2501`	`that ends in .app`
`06:27.46`	`JeffM2501`	`then go in there`
`06:27.57`	`ViPeR`	`night guys i am heading to bed`
`06:27.58`	`JeffM2501`	`then to MacOSX ( iirc )`
`06:28.03`	`JeffM2501`	`then the exe is in there`
`06:28.08`	`JBdiGriz`	`and then you cd to Contents/MacOS`
`06:28.11`	`*** part/#bzflag ViPeR (acidblood@internet.drugdealer.org)`
`06:28.14`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh contentes`
`06:28.19`	`JeffM2501`	`knew I missed part`
`06:29.14`	`TimRiker`	`does dragging the icon onto terminal paste the path?`
`06:29.44`	`JBdiGriz`	`No`
`06:30.01`	`TimRiker`	`well it should. ;-)`
`06:30.14`	`JBdiGriz`	`The list configuration isn't reset when I don't specify the option`
`06:30.15`	`JeffM2501`	`does it do it in debian?`
`06:30.41`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: under some terminal apps, yes. not urxvt that I use though.`
`06:30.59`	`JeffM2501`	`OSX can run x widdows`
`06:31.04`	`JeffM2501`	`so mabe it can`
`06:31.14`	`JBdiGriz`	`TimRiker: Yes`
`06:31.37`	`JBdiGriz`	`It works in Terminal, but not in xterm ;-)`
`06:32.00`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: under konsole you get a choice of pasting the filename with path, or just a cd command to that dir, and a few other options I don't recall.`
`06:32.07`	`TimRiker`	`JBdiGriz: cool.`
`06:32.20`	`JeffM2501`	`nice`
`06:33.15`	`*** join/#bzflag Silver[a] (SilverFox@68-116-47-254.or.charter.com)`
`06:34.06`	`*** join/#bzflag noyb (~noyb@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net)`
`06:34.14`	`wegstar`	`hi noyb`
`06:34.27`	`noyb`	`must be me... but I can't use the "find server" thingy right now.`
`06:34.28`	`wegstar`	`!weather 94030`
`06:34.32`	`noyb`	`hi wegstar`
`06:34.40`	`TimRiker`	`I should get this guy to install vnc so I can try it myself.`
`06:34.49`	`wegstar`	`how many times have you tried it?`
`06:35.37`	`noyb`	`it just gets stuck on 'searching'`
`06:35.45`	`TimRiker`	`noyb: it's running. works for me.`
`06:35.46`	`noyb`	`a lot`
`06:35.47`	`TimRiker`	`~bzflist`
`06:36.09`	`JeffM2501`	`TimRiker: he's behind a proxy/some funcky interface, what makes you think he has a clean route for VNC :)`
`06:36.25`	`noyb`	`I can play on the server I had last selected from the find list`
`06:36.38`	`noyb`	`lemme restart the router. worth a shot.`
`06:36.46`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: well there is that. ;-)`
`06:38.38`	`JeffM2501`	`just being a realist :)`
`06:38.59`	`wegstar`	`hmm`
`06:39.09`	`*** join/#bzflag noyb_ (~noyb@wbar2.lax1-4-8-213-215.dsl-verizon.net)`
`06:39.48`	`noyb_`	`well, my router restart didn't do the trick. client still stuck on 'searching' but it worked many times tonight earlier.`
`06:40.28`	`wegstar`	`hmm`
`06:42.07`	`TimRiker`	`so where is the bzflag binary if the icon shows /users/me/apps/bzflag ?`
`06:42.31`	`TimRiker`	`/users/me/apps/bzflag/Contents/MacOS/bzflag ?`
`06:42.35`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`06:42.45`	`JeffM2501`	`well probably bzflag.app/Contents`
`06:42.54`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a "special" dir`
`06:43.25`	`noyb_`	`I lost "find server" after I added 'set disableMOTD 1' to my ~/.bzf/config but I took it out and still have the trouble.`
`06:43.55`	`JeffM2501`	`take our your list serverURL line and let it reset it`
`06:44.16`	`JeffM2501`	`tim I show, Z:\BZFlag.app\Contents\MacOS\bzflag`
`06:44.19`	`JeffM2501`	`well`
`06:44.23`	`JeffM2501`	`as a unix path for you :)`
`06:44.35`	`TimRiker`	`Z: ?`
`06:44.47`	`JeffM2501`	`nix server maped as a drive on my PC`
`06:44.54`	`*** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (~4101564c@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`06:44.56`	`TimRiker`	`and \ instead of / ?`
`06:44.57`	`JeffM2501`	`just put the .app`
`06:45.01`	`JeffM2501`	`and use /`
`06:45.05`	`JeffM2501`	`mac uses /`
`06:45.10`	`JeffM2501`	`I was copying from my PC`
`06:45.16`	`JeffM2501`	`mac is off`
`06:45.21`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`all plats use /`
`06:45.28`	`JeffM2501`	`they can yes`
`06:45.29`	`noyb_`	`serverURL line was commented out. was that a result of disableMOTD?`
`06:45.34`	`JeffM2501`	`but the windows shell does not`
`06:45.40`	`JeffM2501`	`noyb: shuld not be`
`06:45.43`	`JeffM2501`	`remove it`
`06:45.48`	`*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (revol@ATuileries-117-1-24-50.w193-251.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`06:45.51`	`JeffM2501`	`IIRC # is NOT a comment`
`06:45.58`	`JeffM2501`	`not in the configs`
`06:46.00`	`noyb_`	`will it pop back in there when I restart the client?`
`06:46.03`	`JeffM2501`	`it means it's a "required"`
`06:46.04`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`06:46.13`	`QuantumBeep`	`How do I get a copy of BZ with the chat tab fix? CVS?`
`06:46.16`	`TimRiker`	`/users/me/apps/bzflag/Contents/MacOS/bzflag -v got the version string.`
`06:46.23`	`*** part/#bzflag wegstar (~foo@adsl-64-175-248-131.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`06:46.27`	`JeffM2501`	`huzzah`
`06:46.39`	`JeffM2501`	`TimRiker: if you don't run from that dir`
`06:46.43`	`JeffM2501`	`it won't find the data`
`06:46.44`	`TimRiker`	`QuantumBeep: at present, yes.`
`06:46.48`	`JeffM2501`	`and you'll have to use -directory`
`06:46.59`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`winshell does, except for cd /`
`06:47.05`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: argh.. didn't think of that. what dir should he be in?`
`06:47.08`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`which equates to cd .`
`06:47.18`	`JeffM2501`	`that MacOS dir`
`06:47.28`	`JeffM2501`	`MeBigFatGuy: explorer does not`
`06:47.30`	`JeffM2501`	`show it`
`06:47.46`	`TimRiker`	`so: cd /users/me/apps/bzflag/Contents/MacOS ; ./bzflag -v ?`
`06:47.46`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`yea ok`
`06:47.47`	`QuantumBeep`	`Umm... Winshell cd / goes to root of drive, while cd . does nothing, right?`
`06:47.53`	`JeffM2501`	`CD yes`
`06:48.01`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`cd / is the same as cd .`
`06:48.05`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm not talking about the terminal like shell`
`06:48.06`	`Nidhoggr`	`I'm off to sleep. good night all.`
`06:48.08`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`in win32`
`06:48.09`	`*** join/#bzflag t-s (~ts@pD9EA63E7.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`06:48.12`	`Nidhoggr`	`&`
`06:49.18`	`t-s`	`Nighoggr: I was lag kicked again`
`06:49.21`	`TimRiker`	`sending him to port 81 worked. and no need to cd, I'm betting cause the config already had the correct path.`
`06:49.36`	`JeffM2501`	`probably`
`06:50.16`	`TimRiker`	`"MeBigFatGuy cd / is the same as cd ." huh? only if you are already in the root.`
`06:50.22`	`noyb_`	`I was mistaken... I don't have a serverURL line. it was the 'set list http...' line that was commented out.`
`06:50.29`	`MeBigFatGuy`	`not on windows`
`06:50.36`	`JeffM2501`	`that is the list server URL line`
`06:50.43`	`JeffM2501`	`I was not giving you the exact name`
`06:50.53`	`JeffM2501`	`and it's NOT a comment`
`06:50.53`	`noyb_`	`ok. sry`
`06:51.02`	`noyb_`	`sry again.`
`06:51.20`	`noyb_`	`please help me understand the config sytax`
`06:51.23`	`noyb_`	`syntax`
`06:51.28`	`JeffM2501`	`so you don't want it to check the net, but you expect the list server to work?`
`06:51.40`	`JeffM2501`	`that seems like an oxymoron`
`06:51.55`	`JeffM2501`	`the list server is on the net`
`06:52.09`	`noyb_`	`when I'm at work, I don't want network access. I have a private server there. when at home, joy of joys, no network restrictions.`
`06:52.24`	`TimRiker`	`noyb: should have a "set list http://my.bzflag.org/db/"`
`06:52.38`	`noyb_`	`yes, I have that.`
`06:52.39`	`JeffM2501`	`then at work do the config thing to disable it, then you don't ned the list server to work`
`06:52.43`	`JeffM2501`	`and at home, don't touch it`
`06:52.59`	`JeffM2501`	`or is this a laptop thing?`
`06:53.03`	`JeffM2501`	`same config?`
`06:53.07`	`noyb_`	`laptop`
`06:53.19`	`JeffM2501`	`use difrent configs :)`
`06:53.25`	`JeffM2501`	`make a "I'm screwing around at work' user`
`06:53.55`	`noyb_`	`let's be more accurate... we need a "I'm playing during lunch" user...`
`06:53.58`	`noyb_`	`;)`
`06:54.05`	`JeffM2501`	`whatever`
`06:54.10`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: ahh! so if config lines are default then they start with #`
`06:54.17`	`JeffM2501`	`I think so`
`06:54.21`	`JeffM2501`	`IIRC`
`06:54.25`	`TimRiker`	`I didn't tell him to remove the # so it ignored his change.`
`06:54.31`	`JeffM2501`	`he`
`06:54.39`	`JeffM2501`	`heh even`
`06:55.21`	`TimRiker`	`~spell forhead`
`06:55.22`	`ibot`	`possible spellings for forhead: for head for-head forehead forged airhead fathead forced forded forked formed forehand towhead warhead forward Freda foreheads fired Ford Head ford head overhead Fred Frieda behead firmed fished fogged forbade forget hothead forte godhead sorehead Freud ahead farad fared freed fried pothead`
`06:55.23`	`TimRiker`	`heh`
`06:56.02`	`JeffM2501`	`he's allways talking about my mom`
`06:57.57`	`TimRiker`	`ok. so the :81 trick may help folks with auto-squid proxies.`
`07:01.20`	`QuantumBeep`	`!ping`
`07:01.26`	`QuantumBeep`	`Er..`
`07:04.24`	`TimRiker`	`http://bzflag.org/wiki/SquidProxy`
`07:06.29`	`jomojo`	`okay boys and girl developers... i must first say i really appreciate all you did to bring us a free game...`
`07:06.37`	`jomojo`	`but`
`07:06.49`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`07:06.53`	`*** join/#bzflag SilverFox (SilverFox@68-116-47-254.or.charter.com)`
`07:06.59`	`jomojo`	`i have a request so i may continue to play this game i love...`
`07:06.59`	`TimRiker`	`~bzflag jomojo`
`07:07.05`	`TimRiker`	`~bzfrag jomojo`
`07:07.07`	`ibot`	`ACTION skewers jomojo with a super bullet`
`07:07.28`	`jomojo`	`i can't really see the tanks on the new radar`
`07:07.29`	`brlcad`	`jomojo: ze bugs are beeing feexed`
`07:07.37`	`jomojo`	`no its not a bug`
`07:07.40`	`jomojo`	`i dont think`
`07:07.50`	`TimRiker`	`jomojo: step one: open eyes.`
`07:07.57`	`brlcad`	`well that one is complicated, but can probably be changed`
`07:07.57`	`jomojo`	`the tanks images are smaller on the radar`
`07:08.07`	`jomojo`	`my eyes are open`
`07:08.11`	`brlcad`	`i've noticed that it's incredibly difficult to use right now myself`
`07:08.11`	`TimRiker`	`hehe`
`07:08.19`	`jomojo`	`they just don't see very well myself`
`07:08.40`	`brlcad`	`need to do side by side comparisons to see exactly why it feels worse`
`07:08.45`	`TimRiker`	`tried the 3 different radar zoom levels? and the different radar modes? ie: enhanced or fast?`
`07:09.03`	`jomojo`	`literally i have a laptop with a 12 inch monitor... and i cannot see what is happening nearly as well on the new radar`
`07:09.21`	`jomojo`	`without zooming in so that my view of the field is limited`
`07:09.23`	`TimRiker`	`jomojo: also you can make the radar and msg area larger if you like.`
`07:09.33`	`jomojo`	`i tried`
`07:09.51`	`brlcad`	`TimRiker: on a ducati-style map at least, the radar is considerably father zoomed out, you zoom in even with 1 or using 4 to go in even closer and it seeming looses the range from before`
`07:09.59`	`jomojo`	`i in the config file but after i changed the config file the app would no longer start`
`07:10.01`	`brlcad`	`like top-down perspective has changed somewhat`
`07:10.17`	`jomojo`	`yeah agreed...`
`07:10.24`	`brlcad`	`trepan made lots of changes, haven't gotten ahold of him yet to see what it was`
`07:10.37`	`jomojo`	`the way the shots now lag is not accurate`
`07:10.57`	`brlcad`	`now that's probably just a visual effect of the shot changes on radar`
`07:11.15`	`jomojo`	`if the tanks are close it doesn't always look like it has hit you yet`
`07:11.24`	`brlcad`	`the shot tails used to predict forward, now they trail back -- it's configurable on the menu`
`07:11.38`	`jomojo`	`when i take the lagging option off it no longer appears`
`07:11.56`	`brlcad`	`lagging option?`
`07:12.22`	`jomojo`	`in 1.10.4 and beyond which was when i started shots could only be lagging or with a tail.. in shot length now you have an option of either`
`07:12.39`	`jomojo`	`leading or lagging`
`07:12.48`	`brlcad`	`jomojo: right, except internally that "tail" was only leading`
`07:12.59`	`brlcad`	`and the shot was put at the tip`
`07:12.59`	`jomojo`	`in 1.7`
`07:13.07`	`brlcad`	`in front of the "real shot position"`
`07:13.18`	`jomojo`	`hmmm`
`07:13.37`	`brlcad`	`so it's more "correct" now, and there's an option to make it what it was`
`07:14.39`	`brlcad`	`we had complaints/requests that the tail was in front of the shot`
`07:14.44`	`jomojo`	`okay am I being dyslexic? But lagging is when the shot is leading with the tail behind and it and leading is with the line in front of the shot?`
`07:15.09`	`jomojo`	`yeah the old schoolers used to tell me that they wanted the leading tail back`
`07:15.24`	`jomojo`	`but you are supposed to have the option now to have either?`
`07:15.29`	`brlcad`	`and they can have that -- it's on the menu`
`07:15.40`	`brlcad`	`just not the default, iirc`
`07:15.40`	`jomojo`	`right i am with you so far`
`07:16.30`	`jomojo`	`but i noticed that a lagging shot sometimes hits you before it appears to on radar... and now the lagging shot starts behind the tank...`
`07:18.00`	`brlcad`	`that's mainly due to the differences in the graphics drawing, the speed of the shot, "collision size" of the tank .. so you're basically dead the instant you get the shot update before it's had a chance to draw`
`07:18.17`	`brlcad`	`can perhaps think of it as the radar being drawn lagged`
`07:18.46`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/debian/control: no proxy anymore`
`07:18.50`	`jomojo`	`but basically i would just love the old radar back, or at least an option to get some of it back for ducati ctf style`
`07:19.01`	`brlcad`	`that part might be fixable with some reorderings of the rendering, but it's not really any different than before`
`07:19.03`	`TimRiker`	`radar always lags. gotta wait for the pings to come back.`
`07:19.20`	`jomojo`	`anyway but it does look great`
`07:19.23`	`TimRiker`	`next we need to draw the sweep. ;-)`
`07:19.31`	`jomojo`	`well everything but the radar`
`07:19.39`	`jomojo`	`except my fps is way down`
`07:19.40`	`brlcad`	`jomojo: I've said (three times now?) that there is an option for the 1.10 shot drawing behavior on the menu :)`
`07:20.08`	`jomojo`	`yeah i know but its not quite the same`
`07:20.18`	`brlcad`	`how so?`
`07:20.19`	`jomojo`	`and the tanks are smaller images`
`07:20.33`	`*** join/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@lettres118-48.unil.ch)`
`07:20.35`	`brlcad`	`the radar drawing is different, the shot drawing is not if you turn on the option`
`07:21.02`	`jomojo`	`which option is that`
`07:21.22`	`brlcad`	`on the gui menu`
`07:21.28`	`jomojo`	`i mean am i missing something`
`07:21.41`	`jomojo`	`i can control and make it lagging yes`
`07:21.50`	`jomojo`	`radar shot length`
`07:22.10`	`brlcad`	`radar shot length is not the option`
`07:22.18`	`jomojo`	`but there is no one option that i see besides those...`
`07:22.21`	`jomojo`	`what then`
`07:22.22`	`brlcad`	`length just changes the length..`
`07:22.32`	`jomojo`	`lagging?`
`07:22.39`	`jomojo`	`yeah okay i have that`
`07:23.12`	`jomojo`	`is that the option you are talking about bricad?`
`07:23.24`	`brlcad`	`i'm not sure without seeing the menu`
`07:23.35`	`brlcad`	`should be a toggle menu option`
`07:23.37`	`brlcad`	`not a slider`
`07:24.00`	`jomojo`	`exactly there is an on radar shot line": lagging or leading`
`07:24.10`	`brlcad`	`ahh, that sounds like it`
`07:24.18`	`jomojo`	`lagging makes it like it was in 1.10`
`07:24.20`	`jomojo`	`sort of`
`07:24.32`	`brlcad`	`sort of?`
`07:24.39`	`jomojo`	`compare the two`
`07:24.49`	`jomojo`	`defiantly different`
`07:25.09`	`jomojo`	`shots in 1.10 don't start from behind the tank`
`07:25.57`	`brlcad`	`i'll take a look at it later -- there should be an option that gives you exactly what was in 1.10`
`07:26.17`	`jomojo`	`shots in 1.10 don't kill you until they are inside of you on radar... or just about in front of you.. but don't stop short with lagging on.... however.... it sometimes appears that shots don't quite get to me on my radar`
`07:26.30`	`jomojo`	`it is similar but not exactly`
`07:26.36`	`jomojo`	`all of that i can deal with`
`07:26.42`	`jomojo`	`don't like it but i can deal`
`07:27.06`	`jomojo`	`its the smaller tank images on radar.. that are drawn to radar accurate size... makes them hard for me to see`
`07:27.13`	`jomojo`	`and also my fps sucks`
`07:27.59`	`jomojo`	`i have been talking to other mac users.. there has been an issue with us having sub par fps compared to 1.10.... not all of us but those not using the newer G5s`
`07:28.37`	`brlcad`	`do you have hard numbers of before/after?`
`07:28.42`	`brlcad`	`like for ducati?`
`07:29.07`	`brlcad`	`many of the new maps are significantly more complicated than are available in 1.10`
`07:29.08`	`noyb_`	`brlcad: I can give you some numbers if I knew how to see my frame rate.`
`07:29.18`	`brlcad`	`noyb_: press t`
`07:29.26`	`noyb_`	`ok`
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`07:29.45`	`*** part/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@lettres118-48.unil.ch)`
`07:29.52`	`jomojo`	`yeah before 160-170 in ducati now 67`
`07:31.03`	`jomojo`	`i compared to Mikke and i get normally about 30-40 lessfps than him... both macs but his is a G5... he gets the same on 2.0 and 1.10 i get a huge amount less like 100 fps less`
`07:31.05`	`brlcad`	`exact same resolutions, quality settings? those will make a big difference`
`07:31.15`	`jomojo`	`yup compared side by side`
`07:31.27`	`brlcad`	`same radar sizes?`
`07:31.51`	`jomojo`	`same radar sizes, same mouse box sixe`
`07:33.06`	`jomojo`	`just dropped to 50fps`
`07:33.18`	`jomojo`	`i am going to do a custom build later and see if that helps`
`07:33.31`	`brlcad`	`let me know how it goes`
`07:33.57`	`jomojo`	`will do`
`07:34.47`	`jomojo`	`you know how freaked out us ctf league guys get with new clients... we spend so much time tweaking our clients to get the just the way we like them.. and something new comes along and we freak`
`07:34.51`	`jomojo`	`at least i do`
`07:36.37`	`brlcad`	`it is a major update that's been changing for over 8 months`
`07:36.52`	`brlcad`	`so there will be some changes expected and unexpected that will take a little while to resolve`
`07:37.22`	`jomojo`	`true but it does look great.. i have been using the graphics from the 1.11 on 1.10 for a while...`
`07:37.44`	`jomojo`	`however not much beyond that is an advantage non superflag guys such as myself`
`07:37.54`	`jomojo`	`however it is fun to mess around with wings`
`07:38.18`	`noyb_`	`sorry to let you down... I just can't get framerate data in 1.10.8 with 't'`
`07:38.24`	`brlcad`	`there are more changes than that`
`07:38.28`	`brlcad`	`most you don't get to see`
`07:38.43`	`jomojo`	`i know`
`07:38.45`	`brlcad`	`you're on a mac, right? hitting f1 is a big new feature`
`07:38.58`	`jomojo`	`yeah doesn't quite work right though`
`07:39.07`	`jomojo`	`i really do appreciate the effort`
`07:39.13`	`brlcad`	`huh? how so?`
`07:39.15`	`noyb_`	`yay! I found that. but I didn't think that was going to be ready. I missed a couple things away from irc`
`07:39.18`	`jomojo`	`i mean its free`
`07:39.36`	`jomojo`	`it sky rockets your lag for a minute or so`
`07:39.40`	`noyb_`	`brlcad: the window thing via F1`
`07:39.43`	`jomojo`	`along with jitter`
`07:39.52`	`brlcad`	`jomojo: well sure, it's changing your resolution`
`07:40.08`	`jomojo`	`great for obs though`
`07:40.11`	`brlcad`	`that's not bz's doing as much as it is os x's time to change resolution`
`07:40.43`	`noyb_`	`brlcad: in 1.10.8, how do I see framerate?`
`07:40.49`	`brlcad`	`noyb_: t`
`07:40.53`	`jomojo`	`i really like the 4 and 5 options`
`07:40.58`	`jomojo`	`t`
`07:41.26`	`brlcad`	`jomojo: you sure do complain a lot :) so don't USE those keys`
`07:41.33`	`brlcad`	`others have said they love them`
`07:41.40`	`noyb_`	`I set my keymaps back to default, and I pressed t, but the fr is not visible to me. what am I looking for?`
`07:42.13`	`jomojo`	`oh i see since i complain the one thing i compliment you on besides graphics i am told why bother`
`07:42.22`	`jomojo`	`loll:p`
`07:42.27`	`brlcad`	`noyb_: it's no different in 2.0 and 1.10 -- you press t and wait a couple seconds`
`07:42.28`	`jomojo`	`:p`
`07:42.47`	`noyb_`	`ok, I need more patience. that's all.`
`07:42.48`	`brlcad`	`if you press it twice out of impatience, you will have turned it on and off`
`07:44.03`	`TimRiker`	`F1 rocks.`
`07:44.54`	`brlcad`	`jomojo: i'm not saying don't bother, i said don't use it -- you've only told me that you don't like it. Not "liking" it isn't very helpful for making it something you would like. i.e. not exactly constructive`
`07:45.12`	`jomojo`	`yeah all is workable for me... but if i could just make the tanks look bigger on radar.. i would be very happy...`
`07:45.38`	`jomojo`	`no i liked the 4 and 5 options now`
`07:45.52`	`jomojo`	`or rather like the 4 and 5 zoom in and out option for radar`
`07:45.58`	`brlcad`	`ahh, i thought you said you didn't like them`
`07:46.05`	`jomojo`	`no look up`
`07:46.31`	`jomojo`	`lol`
`07:46.49`	`TimRiker`	`a menu option to adjust the tank size would be easy enough. patches welcome.`
`07:48.03`	`brlcad`	`TimRiker: I think the perspective may have actually changed -- i had trouble recreating the same radar views -- could be mistaken`
`07:48.27`	`brlcad`	`so not so much tank size .. though that might be a good option too`
`07:49.22`	`brlcad`	`~trepan++`
`07:50.13`	`trepan`	`it'll be radarTankPixels, no menu option`
`07:52.56`	`noyb_`	`brlcad: I found that 1.10.8 gave 70-129 fps and 2.0 gave 30-69 fps`
`07:53.05`	`jomojo`	`jomojo loves trepan`
`07:53.20`	`noyb_`	`powerbook g4 1.25GB RAM`
`07:53.27`	`brlcad`	`noyb_: which map?`
`07:54.09`	`noyb_`	`uh... pitfalls in 2.0 and something ducati at the top of my list at the time... sorry. 1 sec for details.`
`07:55.50`	`noyb_`	`no, it was hepcat.org ctf for 1.10.8`
`07:57.03`	`brlcad`	`noyb_: that won't do -- they have to be the exact same map`
`07:57.11`	`brlcad`	`and same gui/display options`
`07:57.11`	`noyb_`	`ooof`
`07:57.23`	`TimRiker`	`~trepan++`
`07:57.34`	`noyb_`	`oh, well... ball park?`
`07:58.06`	`noyb_`	`a little slower fps in 2.0 is probably not a bad statement.`
`07:58.43`	`brlcad`	`yes, but just not a very useful statement`
`07:59.10`	`noyb_`	`how can we find exact maps, is that common?`
`07:59.16`	`brlcad`	`try hepcat`
`07:59.21`	`noyb_`	`I thought they would convert and be done with it.`
`07:59.28`	`noyb_`	`ok`
`07:59.49`	`noyb_`	`does the server sense the client and serve the right map?`
`08:01.08`	`noyb_`	`oh, yeah... my searching is still broken. are my prefs in ~/.bzf/config ?`
`08:01.13`	`noyb_`	`2.0`
`08:01.35`	`brlcad`	`which OS?`
`08:01.47`	`noyb_`	`mac`
`08:02.07`	`brlcad`	`no, they're in ~/Library/Application\ Support/BZFlag/2.0/`
`08:02.27`	`noyb_`	`wee! I've been changing the wrong file... sorry.`
`08:05.16`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/ (3 files in 2 dirs): add "radarTankPixels" BZDB var`
`08:05.30`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/common/BZDBCache.cxx: add "radarTankPixels" BZDB var`
`08:11.20`	`noyb_`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:12.12`	`noyb_`	`I hate no jumps... UL_Approved killed me a lot. came out with 1 point.`
`08:17.34`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp694 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
`08:28.33`	`TimRiker`	`~bzflist`
`08:34.22`	`TimRiker`	`commants: http://bzflag.org/wiki/ConfigFile`
`08:35.15`	`TimRiker`	`er.. comments?`
`08:37.05`	`scanline`	`finally, conclusive proof that OS X Isn't Unix!`
`08:38.14`	`TimRiker`	`heh`
`08:38.31`	`TimRiker`	`I'm thinking different`
`08:39.33`	`TimRiker`	`scanline: hey, what if anything is happening with picogui? Have any commercial devices shipped using it?`
`08:39.55`	`scanline`	`TimRiker: haven't touched picogui in ages, don't want to. Not sure if anybody serious is still using it`
`08:40.15`	`scanline`	`ooh... the second edition of rml's linux book is out`
`08:40.21`	`TimRiker`	`GUI choice for small linux devices like phones suck.`
`08:42.02`	`TimRiker`	`Qtopia is huge, and non-free. Gtk is still large, and really wants X. fltk still wants X, wxWidgets I've not yet looked into. Pixel seems dead. They all suck for different reasons. Have not seen China Mobilesofts work, but I can guess.`
`08:42.23`	`TimRiker`	`PalmOS on Linux might be interesting, but the pricing will likely suck on that.`
`08:42.32`	`scanline`	`I can understand why some people want a new GUI, it just isn't something I'm interested in working on any more`
`08:42.56`	`noyb_`	`um... suggestion on _shotsKeepVerticalVelocity laser should not be affected by that, but it is. strange.`
`08:43.27`	`TimRiker`	`scanline: any recommendations? or just it just make your head ache?`
`08:44.26`	`scanline`	`TimRiker: gtk/fb looks like the best bet to me, but I haven't worked on any embedded hardware with a display in a while`
`08:45.13`	`scanline`	`I doubt gtk is really any bigger than picogui if you configure each to have only the features you need`
`08:45.45`	`TimRiker`	`k. I just ordered a Zipit. $99 Linux powered IM WiFi device. arm, w/mmu 2M flash 16M ram, 320x240 b/w display.`
`08:46.08`	`scanline`	`cute`
`08:46.27`	`TimRiker`	`http://elinux.org/wiki/ZipIt`
`08:49.29`	`trepan_away`	`noyb_: done, Laser and Thief`
`08:49.49`	`TimRiker`	`trepan: uh.. that'll be a net change, yes?`
`08:50.00`	`TimRiker`	`we're in stable mode. can't do that.`
`08:50.12`	`trepan`	`ah hell`
`08:50.14`	`trepan`	`undone`
`08:50.19`	`TimRiker`	`some clients will render it the current way, some others.`
`08:50.40`	`TimRiker`	`feel free to add comments as to what needs to be changed.`
`08:50.47`	`DTRemenak`	`more skill involved in hitting stuff`
`08:50.56`	`TimRiker`	`heh =)`
`08:52.35`	`TimRiker`	`what's the exact issue with the teleporters?`
`08:52.59`	`trepan`	`primary one is that the tank crossing width isn't taken into account`
`08:53.17`	`trepan`	`besides the fact that the coldet remains crap in general`
`08:53.27`	`TimRiker`	`so what would happen if some folks had the "fix" and others did not?`
`08:53.36`	`trepan`	`especially for shots...`
`08:53.56`	`trepan`	`TimRiker: advantage to those with the fix, enough not to do it`
`08:53.57`	`TimRiker`	`coldet?`
`08:54.36`	`brlcad`	`collision detection`
`08:54.36`	`trepan`	`collision detection`
`08:54.43`	`TimRiker`	`hmm. might save that one for when we want to "encourge" and upgrade.`
`08:54.53`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/ (RadarRenderer.cxx bzflag.cxx): radarTankPixels only affects tank drawing`
`08:55.35`	`trepan`	`that should be the same scaling as the old way, but still screen aligned...`
`08:57.32`	`TimRiker`	`cool.`
`08:57.48`	`CIA-2`	`BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/ChangeLog: add your changes here =), bzadmin password hiding`
`08:58.56`	`TimRiker`	`nite all`
`08:59.29`	`trepan`	`hmm, fixing the rotation inversion would be a breaker too, oh well`
`09:23.09`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp675 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
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`10:14.22`	`jpa-`	`i need more bandwidth`
`10:14.36`	`jpa-`	`http://warri1.dyndns.org/ping/`
`10:14.48`	`jpa-`	`bzfs is constantly overloading my dsl`
`10:14.52`	`*** join/#bzflag Pizbit_ (~Pizbit@203-79-124-44.adsl.paradise.net.nz)`
`10:15.10`	`jpa-`	`outbound traffic doubled when bzflag 2.0 went out :S`
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`12:05.52`	`jpa-`	`any devs present?`
`12:08.45`	`*** part/#bzflag mmj (~mmj@panther.mmj.dk)`
`12:09.38`	`jpa-`	`ok`
`12:10.51`	`cods`	`hi`
`12:11.12`	`jpa-`	`hi`
`12:11.20`	`jpa-`	`still debugging problem`
`12:11.42`	`jpa-`	`now i set up box with exactly same libs as one that bzfs does not work on`
`12:11.56`	`jpa-`	`so, now i'm getting same prob on two machines :)`
`12:12.15`	`jpa-`	`(now compiling on the other machine, testing continues)`
`12:12.51`	`jpa-`	`(and wondering why bzfs is 13M big)`
`12:12.55`	`jpa-`	`not play`
`12:12.56`	`Pizbit`	`Nah`
`12:13.01`	`jpa-`	`run teh server :)`
`12:13.03`	`Pizbit`	`I cbf wondering about that too. :)`
`12:13.14`	`jpa-`	`~cbf`
`12:13.15`	`ibot`	`extra, extra, read all about it, cbf is CANNOT BE FUCKED!, or cherry blossoms fall`
`12:15.13`	`jpa-`	`i mean 14M`
`12:15.22`	`jpa-`	`make it 15M`
`12:18.22`	`jpa-`	`or then i failed having same libs...`
`12:18.28`	`Pizbit`	`13,14,15...16?:)`
`12:19.56`	`jpa-`	`? :)`
`12:20.20`	`Chestal`	`it's the debug info, if you strip it, it will be much smaller`
`12:20.52`	`jpa-`	`hmp mp`
`12:20.59`	`jpa-`	`but, i want all the debug i can get`
`12:21.04`	`jpa-`	`i'm debugging, anyway`
`12:21.26`	`jpa-`	`that is so strange problem that it must be something like gcc compiling wrong etc`
`12:22.58`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp435 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
`12:41.30`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp088 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
`12:47.38`	`*** join/#bzflag tapo (~tklopp@213.178.11.129)`
`12:52.01`	`*** join/#bzflag Tartaros (~icechat5@r2b100.chello.upc.cz)`
`13:01.06`	`*** join/#bzflag ElectricElf (debian-tor@electricelf.user)`
`13:02.39`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp980 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
`13:10.48`	`*** join/#bzflag nmb10 (tnt0n@81.176.6.149)`
`13:11.01`	`nmb10`	`hi all`
`13:11.10`	`nmb10`	`can somebody help me?`
`13:11.19`	`Quol`	`what's up`
`13:11.34`	`*** join/#bzflag \|zongo\| (~zongo@131.152.41.89)`
`13:11.46`	`nmb10`	`i've downloaded bzflag 2.0 fo windows`
`13:11.47`	`jpa-`	`has anyone had succeful build of bzfs 2.0 on debian stable 3?`
`13:12.19`	`nmb10`	`when i try to start server, i get failed... unknown problem`
`13:12.36`	`Quol`	`nmb10: which windows?`
`13:12.53`	`jpa-`	`sp2 on xp?`
`13:13.05`	`nmb10`	`my os is win2003`
`13:13.22`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp696 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
`13:14.03`	`Quol`	`do any of the example servers work?`
`13:14.31`	`Quol`	`like start-> programs -> bzflag 2.0.0 -> server -> XXXX`
`13:15.44`	`Quol`	`it could just be a configuration issue, or a map issue - are you loading a map too?`
`13:20.31`	`Chestal`	`jpa-: yes, ducati`
`13:21.07`	`jpa-`	`Chestal: hmm`
`13:21.12`	`Quol`	`hello Chestal - how are ya?`
`13:21.13`	`jpa-`	`Chestal: could i get the binary?`
`13:21.28`	`Chestal`	`Quol: hi, stressed I am`
`13:21.28`	`jpa-`	`i'm having strange issues on two debian stable comps`
`13:21.31`	`jpa-`	`or better..`
`13:21.42`	`Chestal`	`I have no curl, though`
`13:21.49`	`jpa-`	`you could test http://www.kapsi.fi/~jpa/stuff/river.bzw on ducati`
`13:22.04`	`Quol`	`Chestal: sorry to hear that you are stressed - hang in there :)`
`13:22.08`	`jpa-`	`it works on debian testing compiled server, but not on debian stable for me`
`13:22.47`	`*** join/#bzflag Wilinckx (~willem@ip-81-11-133-169.dsl.scarlet.be)`
`13:23.06`	`Chestal`	`jpa: I get warnings: river.bzw: warning (line 316): discarding incomplete object, about 12 of those`
`13:23.10`	`Wilinckx`	`Can someone check if he/she can resolve the host willem.penninckx.org ?`
`13:23.28`	`jpa-`	`Chestal: ok, i will call that a confirmed debian stable issue`
`13:23.39`	`Chestal`	`hmm?`
`13:23.50`	`jpa-`	`that map works fine`
`13:24.02`	`Quol`	`Wilinckx: no, I can't - time out`
`13:24.03`	`jpa-`	`i'm running it now on my home debian testing server`
`13:24.08`	`Chestal`	`meaing you get no warnings on a machine with testing?`
`13:24.11`	`jpa-`	`yup`
`13:24.20`	`Chestal`	`code could still be wrong`
`13:24.20`	`jpa-`	`and no warnings with gentoo, either`
`13:24.23`	`Wilinckx`	`Quol: thx. and penninckx.org and www.penninckx.org?`
`13:24.29`	`Chestal`	`gcc 3.x on testing I assume?`
`13:24.34`	`jpa-`	`yes`
`13:24.43`	`jpa-`	`and i tried gcc 3.4 on stable, too`
`13:24.49`	`jpa-`	`didn't work any better`
`13:24.49`	`Chestal`	`2.95 here on stable`
`13:24.57`	`Quol`	`Wilinckx: same - you register these at the appropriate registrar?`
`13:24.59`	`Chestal`	`this should be debugged, though`
`13:25.04`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp738 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
`13:25.11`	`jpa-`	`i've been debugging for two days`
`13:25.25`	`jpa-`	`disabling optimisations does not work any better`
`13:25.32`	`Wilinckx`	`Quol: ehm, i have that domain already a year or something like that, but now it's running a bzflag mirror it seems to be down :)`
`13:25.38`	`Chestal`	`I meant, understanding what happens`
`13:26.02`	`jpa-`	`and, i had a test map with one warning`
`13:26.07`	`jpa-`	`i removed everything else than the object with warning and its material`
`13:26.11`	`jpa-`	`-> it worked`
`13:26.21`	`jpa-`	`so there was nothing wrong with the object, i assume`
`13:27.02`	`jpa-`	`i think i will submit a bug to sf.net`
`13:27.03`	`Quol`	`Wilinckx: OK, just checking :) Ican't even get the SOA....`
`13:27.26`	`Wilinckx`	`Quol: what is SOA?`
`13:27.55`	`Quol`	`Wilinckx: the DNS start of authority - it lets you know who is responsible for that domain name (which DNS server that is)`
`13:28.06`	`Wilinckx`	`you mean a whois?`
`13:28.10`	`Quol`	`are you hosting it your self - or your ISP or something?`
`13:28.19`	`Wilinckx`	`a company`
`13:28.29`	`Wilinckx`	`but i always thaught it wasn't a good one and now i have the proof :D`
`13:28.41`	`Wilinckx`	`but my fathers knows the owner`
`13:28.53`	`Quol`	`a whois only checks the registrar, every server that is authoritative for a domain has a SOA - it's part of the DNS standard`
`13:30.08`	`Quol`	`Wilinckx: this happen often? it could just be that their DNS servers are down, and that's why I can't contact them to get the SOA or any other record information`
`13:31.00`	`Wilinckx`	`ehm i don't use the domain often so i don't know, i think there whole server is down`
`13:31.16`	`Wilinckx`	`i can't even ping the ip or connect to it in any way`
`13:31.51`	`Quol`	`ya - I would contact them if yo have some types of support - just to see what's up...I guess they do not have any redundancy whatsoever...`
`13:32.22`	`Wilinckx`	`other domains running there too are down too`
`13:32.48`	`Quol`	`if the server is down, everything will be down :)`
`13:32.51`	`Wilinckx`	`:)`
`13:33.31`	`Quol`	`you paying for this service? or is it free?`
`13:34.20`	`Wilinckx`	`my father pays for it`
`13:34.33`	`Wilinckx`	`but i never really used it because i didn't trust it`
`13:35.00`	`Wilinckx`	`but my father always said he's good, and i always said he isn't really good, so .... :)`
`13:43.01`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp574 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
`13:43.29`	`Quol`	`Wilinckx: if it is more than 50$US/year, then you can get much better service - with fully redundant DNS servers on different internet links so that your domain's have complete redundancy`
`13:43.50`	`Wilinckx`	`aha`
`13:44.06`	`Wilinckx`	`i'm going to ask my father how much it costs, brb`
`13:46.51`	`*** join/#bzflag mother (~45f06abf@rw08.de)`
`13:58.32`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp815 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
`14:01.15`	`*** join/#bzflag Wilinckx_ (~willem@ip-195-95-93-75.dsl.scarlet.be)`
`14:01.56`	`Wilinckx_`	`Quol: he doesn't know how much it costs because he neved had to pay for it - i've called the owner of the server and he says he get a hight peek of upload traffic and than his firewall got problems`
`14:05.26`	`Quol`	`Wilinckx; well - you can't argue with free :)`
`14:05.33`	`Wilinckx_`	`hehe :)`
`14:11.19`	`*** join/#bzflag newbie_dont (~janko@dlt108.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)`
`14:12.23`	`*** join/#bzflag t-s (~ts@pD95631A2.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`14:26.22`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp036 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
`14:28.12`	`*** join/#bzflag Grumbler (~381047b6@grumbler.bronze.supporter.pdpc)`
`14:32.31`	`Grumbler`	`dang, man, after that RPG thing, i might have to actually do something`
`14:32.47`	`*** part/#bzflag tapo (~tklopp@213.178.11.129)`
`14:33.37`	`*** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`14:33.37`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
`14:33.47`	`brlcad`	`Grumbler: =)`
`14:34.16`	`Grumbler`	`i knew that forum title would get me in trouble one of these days`
`14:34.37`	`*** join/#bzflag dax (~me@pD9536EF9.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`14:35.00`	`*** topic/#bzflag by Grumbler -> http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz \|\| Thank you, RPG! - http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=26845#26845 \|\| BZFlag 2.0.0 is Released! - Go to http://sf.net/projects/bzflag to download it \|\| Broken mirrors, found also on http://my.bzflag.org/builds/1.11/\|\|Grumbler apologizes for being called a dev`
`14:35.04`	`SportChick`	`TimRiker: is the command you gave elrond last night for mac going to be the same for a linux player?`
`14:35.13`	`*** topic/#bzflag by Grumbler -> http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz \|\| Thank you, RPG! - http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=26845#26845 \|\| BZFlag 2.0.0 is Released! - Go to http://sf.net/projects/bzflag to download it \|\| Broken mirrors, found also on http://my.bzflag.org/builds/1.11/ \|\| Grumbler apologizes for being called a dev`
`14:35.56`	`brlcad`	`bah`
`14:37.36`	`brlcad`	`don't think so SportChick`
`14:37.51`	`brlcad`	`that's just be the cmdline arg`
`14:38.07`	`SportChick`	`~seen TimRiker`
`14:38.13`	`ibot`	`timriker is currently on # (4m 36s) #debian-bots (4m 36s) #botpark (4m 36s) #elinux (4m 36s) #ol (4m 36s) #bzflag (4m 36s) #pegasos.org (4m 36s)`
`14:38.18`	`*** join/#bzflag newbie_dont (~janko@dlt108.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)`
`14:38.24`	`brlcad`	`config file will be something like "set list http://my.bzflag.org:81/db/"`
`14:38.24`	`SportChick`	`brlcad: any idea what the equivalent linux command would be?`
`14:38.42`	`brlcad`	`but it may not be list.. might be listserver or something else`
`14:39.55`	`SportChick`	`brlcad: who are the linux guys I should bug to find out?`
`14:39.56`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@63.147.94.145)`
`14:41.31`	`*** join/#bzflag t-s (~ts@pD95631A2.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`14:45.38`	`*** join/#bzflag TOKIMI ([U2FsdGVkX@co2.cudenver.edu)`
`14:45.48`	`SportChick`	`TimRiker: I could use your help`
`14:47.17`	`brlcad`	`SportChick: i'm not sure "bug" is the right approach .. but pretty much anyone that can read the config file and/or the source should be able to help`
`14:47.39`	`brlcad`	`perhaps try setting -list yourself and see if it sticks in your config file`
`14:47.40`	`SportChick`	`brlcad: I was only asking for Tim becuase he solved this problem for me last night`
`14:48.15`	`brlcad`	`i know :)`
`14:48.54`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp339 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
`14:48.56`	`brlcad`	`it's a freak of chance that even I'm awake and listening righ tnow :)`
`14:48.59`	`*** join/#bzflag Saturos (~Saturos@pD9E6DF0E.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`14:51.07`	`SportChick`	`he is getting the same error as the guy last night - global login rejected , no token`
`14:51.22`	`*** join/#bzflag toaster (~toaster@host-12-163-34-85.telstar-online.net)`
`14:51.25`	`*** join/#bzflag ElectricElf (~david@electricelf.user)`
`14:51.26`	`SportChick`	`brlcad: can you look at bzflag.org to see if his reg is all in order?`
`14:51.48`	`SportChick`	`brlcad: or do I have to wait for Nidhoggr, Tim or some such person`
`14:52.16`	`toaster`	`Hello!`
`14:53.01`	`SportChick`	`hi toaster`
`14:53.21`	`toaster`	`How you been, SportChick?`
`14:53.45`	`TimRiker`	`SportChick: http://www.bzflag.org/wiki/SquidProxy`
`14:54.11`	`toaster`	`Tim: who's the right person to talk to about rendering / tank track marks in 2.0 ?`
`14:54.17`	`TimRiker`	`SportChick: if he get's a token, but then gets rejected, then I suspect the squid issue.`
`14:54.29`	`Saturos`	`nhi all`
`14:54.31`	`Saturos`	`n:D`
`14:54.41`	`TimRiker`	`if he does _not_ get a token, I suspect invalid chars in his username or password.`
`14:57.29`	`SportChick`	`TimRiker: I can't check the boards, I don't htink - no rights. But he says he's gettting an error saying invalid callsign or password and no token`
`14:57.38`	`SportChick`	`so I'm trying to figure out where the login went wrong`
`14:57.43`	`*** join/#bzflag trepan (~trepan@trepan.user)`
`14:57.51`	`SportChick`	`no char other than alphanumeric and space in password`
`14:58.02`	`TimRiker`	`if he's not getting a token, then changing the list will not help.`
`14:58.34`	`TimRiker`	`ask him if he can login on the forum. if not, then the issue is with the forum.`
`14:58.38`	`SportChick`	`ok`
`14:59.14`	`TimRiker`	`if he can login in the forum, but does not get a token, then the issue is that he either has invalid chars in his username/password or he just didn't enter them correctly.`
`14:59.36`	`SportChick`	`he's trying.`
`14:59.57`	`SportChick`	`toaster: I'm good. But I really shouldn't be doing this - lots to do! Today is our anniversary`
`15:00.37`	`TimRiker`	`happy anniversary!`
`15:00.48`	`*** part/#bzflag TOKIMI ([U2FsdGVkX@co2.cudenver.edu)`
`15:00.57`	`SportChick`	`hehe, thanks Timriker`
`15:02.05`	`SportChick`	`TimRiker: someone is also having problems with his sound not working. He's on linux`
`15:02.37`	`cods`	`weird, people continue to report very (1fps..) slow rendering on my server even with depth buffer enabled.. while other servers are fines.`
`15:03.17`	`Saturos`	`My BZFlag freezes all the time but only on jumping servers... ducati and hepcat are just fine. O_o`
`15:03.56`	`SportChick`	`hehe, I think I see his problem - and didn't even need special rights`
`15:04.09`	`SportChick`	`I think he signed up on the forums iwth a diff spelling of his name`
`15:04.30`	`Saturos`	`lol`
`15:05.09`	`bryjen`	`details, details`
`15:06.14`	`Nidhoggr`	`~sdl`
`15:06.15`	`ibot`	`from memory, sdl is Look at http://www.libsdl.org`
`15:07.08`	`Saturos`	`are you talking to me?`
`15:07.21`	`SportChick`	`Nidhoggr: I have been talking to Squirrel G. He was having problems with no token. I'm not positive but I THINK he was getting an error because of the spelling of his name. On the forums, it has 2 "L"s. In game, I believe he was using 1.`
`15:07.34`	`Nidhoggr`	`that would do it.`
`15:07.44`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`15:07.50`	`Grumbler`	`cods, yep, it was jumpy for me last night`
`15:08.02`	`Grumbler`	`cods, but not below 1fps`
`15:08.15`	`SportChick`	`also, t-s is still having mega-lag/packet loss problems and has been pming me every 30 secons or so`
`15:08.29`	`Nidhoggr`	`I'm going to work on installing new bzadmin it will be bzadmin2 when it's done. about 10 minutes or less.`
`15:08.34`	`cods`	`it look like it's from player using a NVidia GF2, so I guess that transparent walls are very bad for this video card.`
`15:08.38`	`SportChick`	`ok thanks`
`15:08.52`	`Nidhoggr`	`the lag issue has been fixed in the code. it just needs to have new builds.`
`15:08.53`	`*** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~sgk284@ws50.cs.drexel.edu)`
`15:08.53`	`t-s`	`Perhaps it is just me but I don't believe so`
`15:09.01`	`sgk284`	`g' morning`
`15:09.05`	`t-s`	`hello`
`15:09.12`	`Nidhoggr`	`hi sgk284`
`15:09.15`	`Grumbler`	`cods, i am using an fx if that helps, and it was jumpy`
`15:09.20`	`sgk284`	`hey nidh`
`15:09.25`	`sgk284`	`nid*`
`15:09.38`	`cods`	`Grumbler: 'fx' is a recent video card ?`
`15:09.47`	`t-s`	`I always get way too high lag when going from fullscreen-mode to windowed mode`
`15:10.06`	`Grumbler`	`cods, yes, the best nivdia before they went pci-express`
`15:10.09`	`t-s`	`even on servers I always have around 75ms I get 950ms!`
`15:10.31`	`Grumbler`	`at least i think its fx....`
`15:10.37`	`cods`	`Grumbler: but, my "old" geforce4 provide 60-80fps.. That's weird.`
`15:11.01`	`Grumbler`	`fx5950 ultra`
`15:11.31`	`Grumbler`	`i dont think it was transparency though, because it was localized to certain points on the map`
`15:12.16`	`*** join/#bzflag orchid (orchid@orchid.user)`
`15:12.17`	`toaster`	`later, all.`
`15:12.22`	`*** part/#bzflag toaster (~toaster@host-12-163-34-85.telstar-online.net)`
`15:13.20`	`sgk284`	`hey orchid`
`15:13.22`	`*** join/#bzflag ajb (~ajb@jabber.org.uk)`
`15:13.24`	`orchid`	`hello`
`15:13.33`	`Nidhoggr`	`hiya orchid`
`15:18.21`	`Nidhoggr`	`is the lag fix in server or in client or both? if I install new server, will it fix?`
`15:18.32`	`*** join/#bzflag Privia (~Privia@h000d93444438.ne.client2.attbi.com)`
`15:20.41`	`TimRiker`	`Nidhoggr: I think it was server only.`
`15:20.47`	`cods`	`Grumbler: thx for testing`
`15:21.11`	`sgk284`	`~weather philadelphia pa`
`15:21.13`	`Grumbler`	`np, although i am not sure what the issue is........trepan might be able to help`
`15:21.24`	`sgk284`	`grr`
`15:21.30`	`Grumbler`	`!weather philadelphia,pa`
`15:21.36`	`sgk284`	`ahh thats it :)`
`15:21.52`	`Grumbler`	`although guu does not seem to like the spelling`
`15:21.59`	`Nidhoggr`	`Tim, excellent.`
`15:22.04`	`sgk284`	`:)`
`15:22.13`	`orchid`	`its the , Grumbler I think`
`15:22.30`	`sgk284`	`!weather philadelphia pa`
`15:22.40`	`sgk284`	`heh oh well....`
`15:23.38`	`Nidhoggr`	`what's philadelphia's airport code?`
`15:23.58`	`*** join/#bzflag Daddo (~LD003@slip-32-102-154-229.pa.us.prserv.net)`
`15:24.01`	`sgk284`	`phl?`
`15:24.06`	`sgk284`	`i dunno only used it once :)`
`15:24.08`	`Nidhoggr`	`~weather kphl`
`15:24.13`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`15:24.19`	`sgk284`	`~nidhoggr++`
`15:24.32`	*** join/#bzflag cortana` (guu@myth.gibbscam.com)
`15:24.35`	`sgk284`	`:)`
`15:24.49`	`Nidhoggr`	`was worth a try to see if that was the code.`
`15:24.56`	`sgk284`	`yea its freezing here... not as bad as yesterday (-1 F)`
`15:24.58`	`*** join/#bzflag bomber (~bomber@ap97.physik.uni-frankfurt.de)`
`15:25.02`	`bomber`	`moin`
`15:25.03`	`Nidhoggr`	`it's kinda nice here.`
`15:25.05`	`Nidhoggr`	`hi bomber`
`15:25.35`	`sgk284`	`although its probably going to snow tomorrow which will be fun :)`
`15:25.39`	`*** join/#bzflag orchid (orchid@orchid.user)`
`15:25.41`	`Nidhoggr`	`oooh. snow.`
`15:26.58`	`Nidhoggr`	`man... so much to do, so little time.`
`15:28.45`	`Daddo`	`~weather Phoenix, AZ`
`15:28.54`	`Daddo`	`ah`
`15:29.00`	`Nidhoggr`	`~weather kphx`
`15:29.18`	`Daddo`	`mush nicer than PHL :(`
`15:29.19`	`Nidhoggr`	`daddo: I am in phoenix, too. :)`
`15:29.24`	`sgk284`	`~fishslap Nidhoggr`
`15:29.26`	`ibot`	`ACTION slaps Nidhoggr up side the head with a wet fish.`
`15:29.36`	`Nidhoggr`	`~lart sgk284`
`15:29.40`	`Daddo`	`no - i am like the other guy in PA :(`
`15:29.42`	`sgk284`	`heh`
`15:29.44`	`Nidhoggr`	`aaah`
`15:30.01`	`Nidhoggr`	`I have a friend in PA. He's not fond of it.`
`15:30.45`	`Daddo`	`moved from FL last year (job) - takes a bit of getting used to (at least I lived in the region before)`
`15:31.11`	`*** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (~45f06abf@rw08.de)`
`15:31.19`	`Nidhoggr`	`mmm sushi`
`15:31.36`	`Nidhoggr`	`hope it wasn't :)`
`15:31.39`	`sgk284`	`i was thinking more along the lines of a fishicle ...`
`15:31.44`	`bomber`	`lol`
`15:31.44`	`Nidhoggr`	`heh`
`15:31.46`	`TheRedBaron`	`eww`
`15:31.50`	`sgk284`	`lol`
`15:32.11`	`Nidhoggr`	`beef is nice raw, too.`
`15:32.22`	`orchid`	`ugh`
`15:32.23`	`TheRedBaron`	`barbarian!`
`15:32.23`	`Daddo`	`steak tartar ?`
`15:32.27`	`Nidhoggr`	`yeah`
`15:32.38`	`Nidhoggr`	`one of my favorites... if you can get people to make it.`
`15:32.38`	`TheRedBaron`	`ok, pardon me but i've 2 quick questions about 2.0 :)`
`15:32.45`	`Daddo`	`can't say i've tried it - or would even hope to :)`
`15:32.47`	`Nidhoggr`	`there is ONE restaraunt here that wil lmake it.`
`15:32.51`	`TheRedBaron`	`and yes, one of them is about radar.... :)`
`15:33.02`	`Daddo`	`you mean something ON TOPIC - good grief :)`
`15:33.02`	`sgk284`	`TheRedBaron, go for it`
`15:33.09`	`TheRedBaron`	`lol`
`15:33.18`	`orchid`	`TheRedBaron: ask in #rawbeef`
`15:33.22`	`sgk284`	`this early in the morning I dunno if I can handle something on topic`
`15:33.22`	`TheRedBaron`	`1 default button to toggle console is "w" correct?`
`15:33.33`	`sgk284`	`yes`
`15:33.43`	`TheRedBaron`	`when i press it, nothing happens`
`15:33.55`	`TheRedBaron`	`i've checked my key mapping, and its set as "w".`
`15:34.00`	`sgk284`	`options->input settings->key mappings->reset defaults`
`15:34.05`	`sgk284`	`hmm...`
`15:34.23`	`TheRedBaron`	`i press it and i get the message "to toggle console press 'w' "`
`15:34.33`	`TheRedBaron`	`but other than that, nothing happens.`
`15:34.39`	`sgk284`	`sure your not hitting "M"... its not an upside down W`
`15:34.42`	`sgk284`	`;)`
`15:34.44`	`TheRedBaron`	`lol`
`15:34.51`	`TheRedBaron`	`i've cleared out the config files`
`15:35.00`	`TheRedBaron`	`so nothing from 1.10 is carrying over`
`15:35.30`	`sgk284`	`what OS ?`
`15:35.34`	`TheRedBaron`	`windows :)`
`15:35.43`	`sgk284`	`okay well thats your first problem...`
`15:35.52`	`sgk284`	`:)`
`15:36.10`	`orchid`	`its those teen pics`
`15:36.29`	`sgk284`	`lol orchid`
`15:36.41`	`TheRedBaron`	`ok if the first prob wasn't enough i've got another one.`
`15:36.42`	`Daddo`	`On mine (windows) Q works for radar but W says 'hit W to toggle console' but it doesn't`
`15:36.48`	`poxy`	`does bzflag 2 have server compatability with 1.10.6?`
`15:36.54`	`sgk284`	`hmm we may have a bug on our hands`
`15:36.54`	`TheRedBaron`	`Daddo, diitto`
`15:37.07`	`TheRedBaron`	`well, i was talking to one player, and it worked for him`
`15:37.10`	`sgk284`	`any devs with windows? feel like testing it`
`15:37.13`	`TheRedBaron`	`but i don't know what his OS whas`
`15:37.19`	`bryjen`	`poxy: no. version 2 doesn't mix with version 1.10`
`15:37.19`	`sgk284`	`that question mark was definitly in the wrong place`
`15:37.33`	`TheRedBaron`	`yep`
`15:37.40`	`poxy`	`ok...`
`15:37.51`	`poxy`	`ill see if it works on my system...and start complaining about what's broken`
`15:37.55`	`TheRedBaron`	`ok and someone forget the manuels`
`15:37.56`	`poxy`	`of course, all done after it has been released`
`15:38.02`	`TheRedBaron`	`*manuals`
`15:38.19`	`Daddo`	`manuals - who needs stinking manuals :)`
`15:38.20`	`sgk284`	`if its broken blame it on DTRemenak`
`15:38.36`	`sgk284`	`dunno if he caused it, but he's as good as anyone to blame :)`
`15:38.37`	`TheRedBaron`	`under the start menu, bzflag 2.0, docs, bzflag game manual`
`15:38.46`	`Nidhoggr`	`cumin is too pungent for oatmeal. eeeew.`
`15:38.57`	`TheRedBaron`	`Daddo, i don't need them, i was trying to be a gentleman`
`15:38.59`	`orchid`	`Grumbler: try cinnamon`
`15:38.59`	`TheRedBaron`	`:)`
`15:39.22`	`Daddo`	`if you get the source - the bzfs man page is about the best you can do as far as current information`
`15:39.29`	`Grumbler`	`thats what i thought it was.....similar in color`
`15:39.35`	`orchid`	`:)`
`15:39.35`	`TheRedBaron`	`Daddo, gotta make and attempt somewhere so bzg wont hate on me and my radar :)`
`15:39.39`	`poxy`	`Hrm... ftp.bzflag.org which goes to sf.net, and going to pub/sourceforge/b/bz/bzflag doesnt let me download the file`
`15:39.42`	`sgk284`	`poxy, any luck?`
`15:39.53`	`Daddo`	`ah`
`15:39.58`	`sgk284`	`oh you dont have 2.0 already?`
`15:40.03`	`orchid`	`TheRedBaron: whats wrong with your stupid radar this time? :P`
`15:40.11`	`poxy`	`no, i dont..plus i normally only run the server`
`15:40.13`	`TheRedBaron`	`orchid, it won't toggle`
`15:40.19`	`orchid`	`ahh, hmm`
`15:40.24`	`poxy`	`i also run it on a 64bit system, so that will find some problems in the code, for sure`
`15:40.35`	`*** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (~JBdiGriz@adsl-63-204-116-8.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net)`
`15:40.35`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ`
`15:40.53`	`TheRedBaron`	`Grumbler: cumin is yellowish orange, cinnimon is a maroon.`
`15:40.54`	`sgk284`	`poxy, err the binaries are 32 bit`
`15:41.00`	`sgk284`	`:)`
`15:41.03`	`TheRedBaron`	`how did you confuse the two? :)`
`15:41.03`	`poxy`	`sgk284: i compile it myself on freebsd/sparc64`
`15:41.05`	`Daddo`	`orchid: I think the Barron is having a problem toggling the console - radar I think works`
`15:41.11`	`sgk284`	`poxy, oh okay:)`
`15:41.29`	`bryjen`	`err, poxy, by "server compatibility" do you mean will your 1.10 server configs work with v2 bzfs. then, yes, with maybe some minor editing`
`15:41.48`	`TheRedBaron`	`orchid: ok, i can turn the rarar on and off, but i can't make it so the radar is big, and cover the whole screen`
`15:41.53`	`TheRedBaron`	`*radar`
`15:41.57`	`poxy`	`bryjen: I meant... do 2.0 people need me to run a 2.0 server... and also meant will it crash running on my system`
`15:42.02`	`orchid`	`TheRedBaron: I dont think thats the intent`
`15:42.25`	`TheRedBaron`	`orchid: you mean you deliberately put that in there to aggravate me?!?`
`15:42.28`	`sgk284`	`TheRedBaron, you never could`
`15:42.34`	`TheRedBaron`	`and i though you were a nice girl....`
`15:42.57`	`orchid`	`I had nothing to do with it :)`
`15:43.04`	`Grumbler`	`TheRedBaron, it was dark, i was tired, and my brain was inactive`
`15:43.16`	`orchid`	`and my Baron_lose patch was rejected`
`15:43.18`	`sgk284`	`TheRedBaron, if you want full screen radar i believe you have to use pyBzflag which is still on 1.7.2 or something like that....`
`15:43.28`	`TheRedBaron`	`Grumbler: i bet your brain woke up after the fact.`
`15:43.51`	`TheRedBaron`	`sgk284: not quite full screen, but a radar the covers the entire console, no?`
`15:44.04`	`orchid`	`TheRedBaron: dont think so`
`15:44.17`	`sgk284`	`like a rectangle?`
`15:44.29`	`orchid`	`TheRedBaron: would you want a radar thats not square?`
`15:44.34`	`TheRedBaron`	`ug, it would make a rectangle radar?`
`15:44.39`	`TheRedBaron`	`that would be ugly`
`15:44.50`	`TheRedBaron`	`you guys know how to mess up a radar for sure.`
`15:45.03`	`sgk284`	`TheRedBaron, the console is a rectangle... and you said you wanted it to cover the console area`
`15:45.05`	`TheRedBaron`	`were would you be without someone like me to keep you in check? :)`
`15:45.22`	`*** part/#bzflag Daddo (~LD003@slip-32-102-154-229.pa.us.prserv.net)`
`15:45.36`	`trepan`	`TheRedBaron: why would you suddenly expect to be able to get a full screen radar?`
`15:45.38`	`orchid`	`TheRedBaron: a better idea might be toggling out-the-window with radar, but thats not a feature at the moment`
`15:45.43`	`sgk284`	`otherwise a square is the same height and width so if its square radar and its width is the screen its going to cover the height too...`
`15:45.53`	`sgk284`	`~treapn++`
`15:45.57`	`sgk284`	`oops`
`15:46.02`	`trepan`	`that's not a problem, it's a feature request`
`15:46.04`	`sgk284`	`you get the point:)`
`15:46.18`	`sgk284`	`a wierd feature request :)`
`15:46.37`	`TheRedBaron`	`whatever happened to the simple days of 1.6? ;)`
`15:46.42`	`sgk284`	`BZFlag 2.0.2 now in 2D`
`15:46.44`	`orchid`	`sgk284: nah, id like full screen radar too`
`15:46.58`	`sgk284`	`orchid, how wouldyou jump?`
`15:47.03`	`trepan`	`TheRedBaron: you can start up a 1.6 server, and play there to your heart's delight is you wish :)`
`15:47.12`	`sgk284`	`or do mean like 50% alphatransparency`
`15:47.15`	`TheRedBaron`	`sgk284, you can jump with radar`
`15:47.40`	`sgk284`	`i guess with enhanced radar it might work out...`
`15:47.43`	`ls`	`~bzflist`
`15:47.58`	`TheRedBaron`	`so, what was my original problem?`
`15:48.16`	`trepan`	`something about 'w'`
`15:48.17`	`poxy`	`yay...mine's up there`
`15:48.19`	`*** join/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@lsn-boi-catv-c113-p155.vtx.ch)`
`15:48.39`	`trepan`	`TheRedBaron: try remapping the key in options->input->change key mapping`
`15:48.54`	`TheRedBaron`	`i did`
`15:48.55`	`sgk284`	`trepan, its already mapped and daddo reproduced the problem`
`15:48.57`	`TheRedBaron`	`changed it to "c"`
`15:49.03`	`TheRedBaron`	`still no luck`
`15:49.20`	`trepan`	`oh well, can't help ya, no windows here`
`15:49.26`	`TheRedBaron`	`if all it does is turn off my console and leave my radar the same size, then i'm not going to bother you about it`
`15:49.33`	`poxy`	`heh i have windows and a crappy number 9 video card`
`15:49.36`	`sgk284`	`thats all it does`
`15:49.37`	`TheRedBaron`	`i was thinking it would make my radar bigger`
`15:49.49`	`TheRedBaron`	`and therefore wanted such a feature`
`15:50.03`	`trepan`	`TheRedBaron: nope, just turns off the console`
`15:50.04`	`TheRedBaron`	`but apparently i got the short end of the deal...`
`15:50.06`	`TheRedBaron`	`:)`
`15:50.09`	`sgk284`	`:)`
`15:50.29`	`poxy`	`what... --disable-client disabled bzadmin...bad bad configure`
`15:50.47`	`Nidhoggr`	`did it?`
`15:50.55`	`Nidhoggr`	`mine didn't when I compiled.`
`15:51.03`	`Nidhoggr`	`:( bad bad bad`
`15:51.07`	`poxy`	`i typed ./configure --disable-client`
`15:51.09`	`TheRedBaron`	`ok well, seeing as the solution to my problem wont help me... :)`
`15:51.13`	`TheRedBaron`	`i'm off to enjoy 2.0.`
`15:51.18`	`poxy`	`then it said bzadmin and client were disabled`
`15:51.21`	`Nidhoggr`	`I should download newest and compile to get rid of lag bug.`
`15:51.24`	`poxy`	`%./configure --disable-client --enable-bzadmin`
`15:51.24`	`TheRedBaron`	`cya guys later`
`15:51.31`	`sgk284`	`cya`
`15:51.35`	`Nidhoggr`	`later trb`
`15:51.38`	`TheRedBaron`	`thanks a million for the "shot line" option :)`
`15:51.40`	`sgk284`	`orchid: you don't jump?`
`15:51.45`	`sgk284`	`:)`
`15:51.47`	`orchid`	`poxy: check the configure log, bzadmin might be disabled for another reason`
`15:51.55`	`trepan`	`Any windows users have the console toggling working?`
`15:51.59`	`poxy`	`http://pastebin.dyndns.org/32`
`15:52.04`	`orchid`	`sgk284: nah, my tank stays on the ground`
`15:52.11`	`orchid`	`even on jumping servers`
`15:52.15`	`sgk284`	`wings must be pretty boring then ;)`
`15:52.35`	`orchid`	`frivolity flag :)`
`15:52.44`	`sgk284`	`lol`
`15:53.38`	`orchid`	`poxy: install curses`
`15:53.48`	`*** part/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@lsn-boi-catv-c113-p155.vtx.ch)`
`15:56.01`	`sgk284`	`well i should get to class, cya`
`15:58.31`	`bryjen`	`proxy: "no curses!" or at least configure didn't find it`
`16:01.18`	`bryjen`	`~bzflist`
`16:01.48`	`bryjen`	`hmm, it'd be neat if it broke out players by version too`
`16:03.26`	`bryjen`	`oop, that's what it's doing now. n/m me`
`16:03.28`	`*** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (~bernt@CPE000102d0fe24-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`16:06.36`	`Grumbler`	`some sort of irony with finding a dog hair in your mouse`
`16:07.47`	`poxy`	`orchid: I used it before...it worked`
`16:08.03`	`poxy`	`darn configure is probably not used to a system that is proper and adheres to heir(4)`
`16:08.16`	`poxy`	`all user-installed libarries are /usr/local/lib and includes are /usr/local/include/`
`16:08.45`	`Nidhoggr`	`grumbler: you should get a mouse that can't get dog hairs in it. :)`
`16:09.54`	`ruskie`	`bzflag --> Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed) :'(`
`16:10.09`	`poxy`	`I meant hier(4)`
`16:11.08`	`cods`	`trepan: you saw my bug report about spinning transformation ?`
`16:11.16`	`cods`	`do you have any idea about what could be wrong ?`
`16:11.34`	`trepan`	`cods: yup, it should be a determinant test`
`16:11.46`	`cods`	`ok`
`16:11.51`	`trepan`	`can't fix it until next protocol breakage...`
`16:11.59`	`cods`	`so just testing det(M)<0 would be sufficient ?`
`16:12.04`	`cods`	`hmm`
`16:12.10`	`cods`	`how it's related to protocol ?`
`16:12.31`	`trepan`	`different clients will behave differently`
`16:12.53`	`Pimpi`	`how do you get those blender files to bzw?`
`16:12.56`	`trepan`	`should have them all equal within the same network protocol version`
`16:13.10`	`trepan`	`(and it will affect physics, horribly)`
`16:13.30`	`trepan`	`best i can do is put a warning in`
`16:13.33`	`poxy`	`motd is disabled without libcurl??`
`16:13.36`	`Grumbler`	`Pimpi there is a plugin from purple cow, but it does not handle meshes ithink`
`16:13.43`	`cods`	`trepan: but bzfs could handle that by swapping ccw/cw (or inverted flag) before feeding the map to client, no ?`
`16:13.45`	`poxy`	`oh, i guess that make sense... if it pulls it from a web server`
`16:14.10`	`cods`	`trepan: hmmm, neverming. I'm wrong.`
`16:14.18`	`cods`	`g->d`
`16:15.01`	`trepan`	`Pimpi: i was doing it with 3ds2bzw`
`16:15.20`	`trepan`	`JeffM also has an OBJ to bzw converter in there`
`16:15.36`	`Grumbler`	`trepan, is that in the forum somewhere, i was looking`
`16:15.37`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-temp049 (~CIA@flapjack.navi.cx)`
`16:15.39`	`trepan`	`i also have a an incomplete mesh exporter for blender`
`16:16.07`	`trepan`	`Grumbler: Jeff's is in tools/modeltool, iirc`
`16:16.26`	`trepan`	`3ds2bzw should be in misc/`
`16:16.45`	`Grumbler`	`trepan, is your mesh exporter part of the purple_cow plugin, or a post export script`
`16:16.52`	`trepan`	`if you can get the .obj one working, it's probably better then the .3ds one`
`16:16.55`	`Grumbler`	`ah, answered`
`16:17.51`	`Grumbler`	`i'll look later`
`16:26.51`	`*** join/#bzflag mother (~45f06abf@rw08.de)`
`16:27.19`	`poxy`	`if I use --prefix=/usr/local why doesnt ./configure find /usr/local/lib/libcurl.* ?`
`16:28.21`	`trepan`	`poxy: what does --prefix do?`
`16:28.33`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`16:28.44`	`poxy`	`heh... i see.. it installs architecture independent files there...`
`16:29.48`	`poxy`	`but that's not all true...because some other things show up as PREFIX/lib`
`16:30.09`	`poxy`	`--includedir=DIR C header files in DIR [PREFIX/include]`
`16:30.11`	`poxy`	`for example...`
`16:30.52`	`trepan`	`poxy: that's listed under: Fine tuning of the installation directories:`
`16:31.14`	`trepan`	`so can you guess what that option would be for?`
`16:31.30`	`poxy`	`it says Directory and file names right above prefix when i do ./configure --help`
`16:31.46`	`Grumbler`	`JeffM2501, what work was done with the obj2bzw converter, and could someone with almost no skills continue developing it?`
`16:32.30`	`*** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (~bernt@CPE000102d0fe24-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`16:32.40`	`poxy`	`in fact doing grep -ri "fine tuning" in the bzflag dir doesnt give anything`
`16:33.44`	`trepan`	`paste your ./configure --help ?`
`16:34.13`	`poxy`	`http://pastebin.dyndns.org/33`
`16:35.13`	`trepan`	`ya, different autoXXXX toolset i guess`
`16:35.39`	`poxy`	`http://pastebin.dyndns.org/34 <-- if you care to see my auto* programs`
`16:36.46`	`trepan`	`either way, all those in the PREFIX listing are for installation, iirc`
`16:36.58`	`poxy`	`but then why is PREFIX talked about in regards to includedir?`
`16:37.07`	`poxy`	`"C header files in DIR [PREFIX/include]`
`16:37.16`	`trepan`	`although your help isn't quite as friendly as mine :)`
`16:38.53`	`trepan`	`http://pastebin.dyndns.org/35`
`16:40.26`	`*** join/#bzflag robust (~robust@c-567472d5.01-167-70697410.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`16:42.24`	`poxy`	`what version do yo use?`
`16:42.39`	`poxy`	`im using 259`
`16:42.48`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/game/MeshTransform.cxx: abort if the inversion bug is present (hopefully server-side)`
`16:43.07`	`Nidhoggr`	`well, I compiled new bzfs to fix lag issue... now I need to find time to restart the server. :)`
`16:43.25`	`Grumbler`	`lag issue?`
`16:44.29`	`bryjen`	`i wonder how many times i'll type that before bzflag-2.0 becomes habit`
`16:44.30`	`poxy`	`configure: warning: bzAdmin build has been requested, but GL is not fully available (missing gl.h)`
`16:46.21`	`bryjen`	`bzadmin was (still is?) intertwined with the client, causing a dependency on GL`
`16:46.34`	`poxy`	`um... i used to build it on this same system`
`16:47.04`	`Nidhoggr`	`tim said that bzadmin could be coded to not show the command line options in the "ps". how hard is that to do?`
`16:47.53`	`Nidhoggr`	`poxy: I'm still complaining about that one. bzadmin requiring GL is stupid as dirt.`
`16:48.04`	`*** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-057-037-022.arcor-ip.net)`
`16:48.12`	`Nidhoggr`	`but there is GL stuff in the client common files.`
`16:48.27`	`JeffM2501`	`Grumbler, it's very simple`
`16:48.33`	`JeffM2501`	`as long as you are OK with sdl`
`16:48.38`	`JeffM2501`	`what changes do you want to make to it?`
`16:48.58`	`JeffM2501`	`it does prety much all it can do`
`16:49.02`	`Grumbler`	`not sure, not sure what it does now`
`16:49.06`	`Nidhoggr`	`grumbler: the code mistakingly double the number of packets lost in it's counting and kicks people off if they loose a very low number of packets.`
`16:49.16`	`JeffM2501`	`it converts obj files into a map`
`16:49.19`	`Grumbler`	`jeffM2501, trepan indicated it might be incomplete`
`16:49.26`	`JeffM2501`	`making each group of objs into mesh objects`
`16:49.57`	`Grumbler`	`i guess it cant handle links/teleporters.....which is probably an issue`
`16:49.59`	`*** part/#bzflag Privia (~Privia@h000d93444438.ne.client2.attbi.com)`
`16:50.07`	`JeffM2501`	`OBJ can't handle links and teleporters`
`16:50.12`	`JeffM2501`	`so why would it`
`16:50.21`	`bryjen`	`Nidhoggr: i think Tim may have already done something for that bzadmin password issue`
`16:50.29`	`JeffM2501`	`bzflag is the only thing that knows what a teleporter and a link is`
`16:50.30`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007_school (~c6964c04@rw08.de)`
`16:50.41`	`JeffM2501`	`so I don't see how it COULD handle it`
`16:50.56`	`Grumbler`	`i am looking to see if there is a way to add an attribute to "something" and it would get intrepreted as a link/tele`
`16:51.15`	`JeffM2501`	`the only thing would be an object with a special name`
`16:51.16`	`Grumbler`	`i started looking at purple_cow's code`
`16:51.25`	`JeffM2501`	`purplecows is for blender`
`16:51.29`	`Grumbler`	`yeah`
`16:51.31`	`JeffM2501`	`he has more info the an obj file`
`16:51.47`	`Grumbler`	`ok`
`16:51.49`	`poxy`	`Nidhoggr: 1.10.6 didnt require GL... and I think if you modify argv[0]... searching the web would give you instructions`
`16:51.51`	`JeffM2501`	`the problem with that is, in a mesh file you don't have a "position" or a "rotatioN"`
`16:52.03`	`JeffM2501`	`all the points are allready in 3d space`
`16:52.23`	`JeffM2501`	`so the file dost say " move an object this big, to here, and rotate it "`
`16:52.30`	`JeffM2501`	`it dosnt' even know what an object is`
`16:52.56`	`JeffM2501`	`Grumbler, it's not designed to be a modeling solution`
`16:52.56`	`Grumbler`	`ah, i will look later, and speak more intelligently after that`
`16:52.59`	`JeffM2501`	`it's just at ool`
`16:53.05`	`JeffM2501`	`tool even :)`
`16:53.20`	`JeffM2501`	`are you trying to get another bzedit like solution?`
`16:53.23`	`Noodle-sensei`	`EVIL`
`16:53.41`	`Grumbler`	`i was looking to see how i could tweak the blender stuff.`
`16:53.43`	`poxy`	`Why didnt 1.10.6 require GL, but 2.0 does, for bzadmin? I am going to have to clutter my system for this`
`16:53.59`	`JeffM2501`	`the OBJ converter has nothing to do with the blender plugin`
`16:54.03`	`JeffM2501`	`blender is the way you want to go`
`16:54.14`	`JeffM2501`	`it allows object atributes`
`16:54.15`	`Grumbler`	`ok`
`16:54.21`	`JeffM2501`	`so that will let you do extra stuff`
`16:54.46`	`Grumbler`	`yeah, the link stuff is what is missing out the blender stuff for 1.10, but then there are meshes........`
`16:54.59`	`JeffM2501`	`I just made the model tool because trepans 3ds2Bzw was not easy to build, and didn't support models.`
`16:55.00`	`Nidhoggr`	`bryjen: just tried newest cvs bzadmin and it still shows password.`
`16:55.11`	`JeffM2501`	`blender has meshes`
`16:55.15`	`JeffM2501`	`so it should be easy to export`
`16:55.25`	`JeffM2501`	`it's just an index list`
`16:55.46`	`trepan`	`just haven't bother with the materials yet`
`16:55.48`	`JeffM2501`	`IIRC the blender thing was made for 1.11 so it may have some mesh stuff in it`
`16:56.05`	`JeffM2501`	`see there ya go :)`
`16:56.06`	`trepan`	`purple_cow's has no mesh stuff in it, that i known of`
`16:56.10`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`16:56.15`	`poxy`	`Nidhoggr: you could try bzadmin -uuser -p $(cat passfile)`
`16:56.26`	`trepan`	`although he could probably finish it off faster then i could`
`16:56.28`	`Grumbler`	`it didnt look like it, but i could be wrong, i just did a 20 minute tour to see what blender was and how the plugin interacted`
`16:56.28`	`JeffM2501`	`I think his plan was to do them , when you had them done, that's what got him the idea of blender.`
`16:56.29`	`poxy`	`oosp nevermind that's dumb`
`16:56.32`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`16:56.48`	`bryjen`	`heh. there's a commit regarding it http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/bzflag/bzflag/src/bzadmin/bzadmin.cxx?rev=2.2&view=log`
`16:57.45`	`Nidhoggr`	`well, it's nice in theory. :) but I still see my password in PS.`
`16:57.57`	`trepan`	`JeffM2501: what kinds of unsupported "models"?`
`16:58.06`	`bryjen`	`yeah. i don't see that patch doing what the comment says it does :(`
`16:58.16`	`orange`	`OK, who is responsible for putting the IP in the join message for admins to see when they join... I can't remember who actually wrote it`
`16:58.19`	`JeffM2501`	`trepan, huh?`
`16:58.29`	`trepan`	`orange: learner and myself`
`16:58.34`	`orange`	`trepan++`
`16:58.38`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`16:58.38`	`orange`	`~trepan++`
`16:58.40`	`orange`	`~learner++`
`16:58.47`	`trepan`	`orange: if you put "set showips 1" in your config, you get even more`
`16:58.47`	`Nidhoggr`	`~learner++`
`16:58.57`	`Nidhoggr`	`~learner++`
`16:59.03`	`trepan`	`they also get put into the Server menu tab`
`16:59.26`	`orange`	`many thanks... that's a great help`
`16:59.34`	`trepan`	`JeffM2501: 3ds2Bzw was not easy to build, and didn't support models.`
`16:59.39`	`JeffM2501`	`sorry`
`16:59.41`	`JeffM2501`	`normals :)`
`16:59.46`	`trepan`	`(fairly easy to build too)`
`16:59.46`	`JeffM2501`	`not the apps fualt`
`16:59.48`	`JeffM2501`	`but the libs`
`16:59.56`	`trepan`	`and it does do normals, just _really_ badly :)`
`16:59.58`	`JeffM2501`	`lib3ds is picky on windows :)`
`17:00.10`	`JeffM2501`	`it was not happy\`
`17:00.16`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah smothing groups is not real normals`
`17:00.24`	`JeffM2501`	`obj had it all, and I had the code to read one.`
`17:00.39`	`JeffM2501`	`even tho I rewrote it whilst doing it :)`
`17:00.45`	`JeffM2501`	`but it's way cleaner now`
`17:01.33`	`trepan`	`nice to have the .obj converter regardless of any possible blender mesh tools`
`17:01.48`	`trepan`	`easier on folks that don't want to install it`
`17:02.07`	`trepan`	`could almost throw an "import" keyword in`
`17:02.21`	`JeffM2501`	`?`
`17:02.28`	`JeffM2501`	`into where?`
`17:02.38`	`trepan`	`bzfs`
`17:02.46`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`17:03.02`	`poxy`	`hahahahah Nidhoggr I figured it out`
`17:03.07`	`JeffM2501`	`or just look at extenstion`
`17:03.21`	`JeffM2501`	`model tool is actualy set up to handle more then one type`
`17:03.42`	`*** join/#bzflag Birdie (~birdie@d54C34D0B.access.telenet.be)`
`17:03.43`	`trepan`	`i'd still just import into a regular bzw file right now`
`17:03.52`	`trepan`	`stick it in a group, and off you go`
`17:03.59`	`poxy`	`http://pastebin.dyndns.org/36`
`17:04.47`	`JeffM2501`	`I'd make bzfs take a paramater that is an application that it can call to have it make it a world whenever it needs`
`17:04.52`	`cods`	`trepan: about polarity, now you render the map invalid by abort()ing bzfs ?`
`17:05.00`	`JeffM2501`	`that way it would make rotatator easyer`
`17:05.01`	`trepan`	`cods: yup`
`17:05.18`	`cods`	`ok`
`17:05.23`	`poxy`	`Nidhoggr: if you compile the program to a.out, and run the program as ./a.out search search and wait 6 seconds, run ps auxw \| grep search and see what it comes up as...`
`17:05.41`	`trepan`	`JeffM2501: easier to just call load different .bzw files, for all the different bzflag specific properties`
`17:06.02`	`trepan`	`unless you want to start jamming junk into the .obj comment fields, or the equivalent in whatever formats you're suggesting`
`17:06.31`	`trepan`	`cods: it should get fixed during the next breakage`
`17:06.39`	`JeffM2501`	`well I was also thinking that you could then externalise stuff like map que and random generation, or stuff with variaitons, and let like a plugin app generate it each time`
`17:06.55`	`JeffM2501`	`not nesisarly using the OBJ converter`
`17:06.58`	`JeffM2501`	`but another app`
`17:07.03`	`JeffM2501`	`like bzmaper`
`17:07.14`	`trepan`	`bzmapper don't do meshes :)`
`17:07.14`	`JeffM2501`	`that maybe could have fields that could be set to random ranges`
`17:07.28`	`JeffM2501`	`but it could include pregenerated object from include files`
`17:07.38`	`JeffM2501`	`that way you can have styliesed random maps`
`17:07.42`	`JeffM2501`	`well random ish`
`17:07.57`	`JeffM2501`	`or maybe an app that checks a page for the highest rated map, and uses that`
`17:08.01`	`JeffM2501`	`or whatever`
`17:08.03`	`trepan`	`could just strip some of the parsing code from bzmapper and make it part of bzfs`
`17:08.14`	`JeffM2501`	`that would work as well`
`17:08.24`	`Tartaros`	`is the new server still able to spawn a tank in front of flying bullet?`
`17:08.31`	`JeffM2501`	`externalising it just sounded easy and the most flexable`
`17:08.33`	`Tartaros`	`I mean, the new version of it`
`17:08.41`	`trepan`	`not too fond of calling external programs because it wouldn't be as consistent from machine to machine`
`17:09.00`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah maybe it wouldn't be`
`17:09.07`	`JeffM2501`	`ok call a python script :)`
`17:09.14`	`poxy`	`heh...`
`17:09.43`	`JeffM2501`	`then that could gen the map, load it, or call a tool :)`
`17:09.45`	`JeffM2501`	`it dosn't mater`
`17:09.45`	`trepan`	`or any other embeddable language with hooks...`
`17:09.56`	`JeffM2501`	`bz can't change maps mid game anway`
`17:10.02`	`JeffM2501`	`it'd only be usefull if it could`
`17:10.14`	`trepan`	`ya, might as well restart bzfs as it is now`
`17:10.16`	`JeffM2501`	`yes or any other lang`
`17:10.18`	`trepan`	`(as folks do)`
`17:10.22`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`17:10.32`	`poxy`	`hrm... /me recalls his restart bzflag server on the fly idea`
`17:10.58`	`JeffM2501`	`poxy, yeah but that was wacky, better to just make a "here is the world again" message and make the clients support it`
`17:11.06`	`JeffM2501`	`yours was more of an upgrade`
`17:11.07`	`bryjen`	`while true ; do makemap.sh > map.bzw ; bzfs -world map.bzw ; done`
`17:11.08`	`JeffM2501`	`not just a restart`
`17:11.23`	`JeffM2501`	`bryjen, but it kicks everyopne`
`17:11.34`	`JeffM2501`	`a cleaner way is to bump them to observer`
`17:11.37`	`JeffM2501`	`resend the map`
`17:11.39`	`trepan`	`poxy: your idea would have been a dev nightmare`
`17:11.52`	`poxy`	`trepan: not really... as long as serialization and deserialization routines were written and kept up to date`
`17:11.54`	`JeffM2501`	`and then reset score, and let them respawn`
`17:12.00`	`bryjen`	`oops, put a -g in there so bzfs runs untill eveyone leaves, the restarts itself empty`
`17:12.11`	`JeffM2501`	`poxy, major data structure changes would have been screwd`
`17:12.27`	`trepan`	`you were trying to warm jump from one bzfs version to another, a maintenance nightmare`
`17:12.40`	`JeffM2501`	`with little benefit`
`17:12.47`	`poxy`	`yeah, a very specific application...`
`17:12.47`	`JeffM2501`	`in that case a restart is waranted`
`17:12.59`	`JeffM2501`	`for a map change, I'm not so sure`
`17:13.07`	`JeffM2501`	`most other games support in game map changes`
`17:13.08`	`poxy`	`for tseting little bits of code changes that dont affect the structures`
`17:13.13`	`JeffM2501`	`most even support a vote for a new map`
`17:13.25`	`JeffM2501`	`poxy, redo bzfs in python`
`17:13.27`	`JeffM2501`	`then you'd be fine`
`17:13.37`	`JeffM2501`	`or run it in visual studio`
`17:13.43`	`JeffM2501`	`using edit and continue.`
`17:14.07`	`Tartaros`	`in python you would still have to reinstantiate the objects, just like in any other language :)`
`17:14.13`	`poxy`	`but serialization and deserialization would have worked fine`
`17:14.22`	`poxy`	`sounds like you would have had to do the same with with python ;P`
`17:14.33`	`Tartaros`	`correct`
`17:14.53`	`poxy`	`so , why rewrite in another language, AND write de/serialization routines ;)`
`17:14.56`	`bryjen`	`not when the object you serialized its the same on the other end`
`17:15.06`	`bryjen`	`s/its/isn't`
`17:15.35`	`poxy`	`a little version toggle could have been created, and just made it like a normal rsetart if toggled`
`17:31.25`	`JeffM2501`	`python supports updating running code as it runs, so all it would have needed was versions on structures, and some update featuers.`
`17:31.53`	`JeffM2501`	`you wouldn't have to seralise`
`17:31.58`	`JeffM2501`	`that's just ONE way of doing it`
`17:32.03`	`JeffM2501`	`ther are otehrs`
`17:32.22`	`*** join/#bzflag Privia (~Privia@h000d93444438.ne.client2.attbi.com)`
`17:32.38`	`JeffM2501`	`bzflag does not have a 24/7 uptime requirement`
`17:32.56`	`JeffM2501`	`so why add unessisary complexity just cus you hate to restart, and like to test on live servers?`
`17:33.21`	`*** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`17:33.21`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
`17:33.49`	`Chestal`	`Linux Kernel should be hot-switchable, that would be useful to have`
`17:34.19`	`JeffM2501`	`you going to make that work on all OSs?`
`17:34.31`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/ (BUGS src/game/MeshTransform.cxx): typo, and add a note in BUGS`
`17:34.51`	`Grumbler`	`hmmm, also known as ls`
`17:35.35`	`*** join/#bzflag _My[DSMBR (~muahahah@3ffe:80ee:26ba:0:0:0:0:1)`
`17:35.56`	`JeffM2501`	`TimRiker knows the contents of ALL dirs :)`
`17:37.08`	`Grumbler`	`!weather annapolis md`
`17:37.11`	`guu`	`Grumbler: The current temperature in Annapolis, Maryland is 19�F (12:26 PM EST on January 19, 2005). Conditions: Snow Showers Freezing Fog. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 18�F. Pressure: 30.20 in (1023 hPa). Visibility: 0.2 miles (0.4 kilometers). UV: 0 out of 12`
`17:38.21`	`*** join/#bzflag Daddo (~41de8202@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`17:38.57`	`bryjen`	`TimRiker: your change to bzadmin to blank password from argv doesn't`
`17:39.53`	`*** join/#bzflag tapo (~tapo@p50928548.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`17:40.06`	`tapo`	`can I ask no question? :)`
`17:41.07`	`Daddo`	`you just did :) - go ahead!`
`17:41.49`	`tapo`	`no no, just being here while compiling bzflag...`
`17:42.12`	`Daddo`	`oh`
`17:46.52`	`*** join/#bzflag ElectricElf (~david@electricelf.user)`
`17:49.21`	`trepan`	`SF is on its hands and knees again`
`17:50.00`	`Grumbler`	`....who released bz while sf is crawling... :)`
`17:50.58`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@198.150.76.4)`
`17:53.48`	`*** join/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@lsn-boi-catv-c113-p155.vtx.ch)`
`17:55.58`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (Tupone@adsl-84-222-136-214.tiscali.it)`
`17:59.02`	`*** join/#bzflag SportyGal (sportygali@67-21-174-30.stmnca.adelphia.net)`
`18:00.31`	`*** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~sgk284@ws79.cs.drexel.edu)`
`18:00.36`	`sgk284`	`its snowing!!!`
`18:00.44`	`sgk284`	`oh and hello`
`18:00.59`	`sgk284`	`~weather kphl`
`18:01.18`	`sgk284`	`:( doesnt say its snowing`
`18:01.28`	`bryjen`	`light ellipsis`
`18:03.10`	`TimRiker`	`bryjen: huh? Tested on linux and it does. what os doesn't?`
`18:03.35`	`sgk284`	`any devs using windows and can test a bzflag bug?`
`18:03.57`	`Noodle-sensei`	`windows support IS a bzflag bug`
`18:03.58`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007_ (~blast007@198.150.76.4)`
`18:04.03`	`DTRemenak`	`sgk284: sure`
`18:04.08`	`sgk284`	`two folks earlier reported that in windows w doesn't hid the console as it does on *nix and mac`
`18:04.10`	`DTRemenak`	`~whaleslap Noodle-sensei`
`18:04.13`	`ibot`	`ACTION slaps Noodle-sensei upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh`
`18:04.14`	`bryjen`	`it didn't for Nidhoggr, and i don't see it here http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/bzflag/bzflag/src/bzadmin/bzadmin.cxx?r1=2.1&r2=2.2`
`18:04.31`	`sgk284`	`w as is pressing "W" should hide the console`
`18:05.01`	`*** topic/#bzflag by TimRiker -> http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz \|\| Thank you, RPG! - http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=26845#26845 \|\| BZFlag 2.0.0 is Released! - Go to http://sf.net/projects/bzflag to download it \|\| Broken mirrors, found also on http://my.bzflag.org/builds/`
`18:05.27`	`DTRemenak`	`sgk284: works for me`
`18:05.31`	`sgk284`	`okay`
`18:05.39`	`sgk284`	`solves that issue :)`
`18:05.51`	`sgk284`	`they claimed to have had it mapped properly but i dunno`
`18:06.01`	`sgk284`	`i dont have a win box to test`
`18:06.03`	`sgk284`	`:/`
`18:06.06`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone_ (Tupone@adsl-84-222-136-61.tiscali.it)`
`18:06.56`	`blast007`	`sgk284: it had worked fine for me`
`18:07.18`	`sgk284`	`sounds good`
`18:07.30`	`blast007`	`on both Windows 2000 and XP, with completely different hardware (XP has a GeForce, 2000 is software rendering)`
`18:07.47`	`blast007`	`most likely a config issue`
`18:08.00`	`Nidhoggr`	`TimRiker: check /usr/local/bin/bzadmin2 on m.b.o. I can log in with bzadmin2 user:pass@server:port, and still see my pass in ps.`
`18:08.14`	`DTRemenak`	`this is on W2KAS if it matters`
`18:09.40`	`*** join/#bzflag mothermellus (~45f06abf@rw08.de)`
`18:09.43`	`sgk284`	`Nidhoggr, quick fix: rm -f /bin/ps`
`18:09.52`	`Nidhoggr`	`:p`
`18:09.53`	`sgk284`	`;)`
`18:10.28`	`blast007`	`strange...I'm still getting errors in URLManager.cxx about the winsock stuff..`
`18:10.37`	`*** join/#bzflag \|zongo\| (~zongo@lsn-boi-catv-c113-p155.vtx.ch)`
`18:10.49`	`blast007`	`or wait, I'm getting _more_ errors now`
`18:10.51`	`TimRiker`	`Nidhoggr: where is the dir that built that?`
`18:10.54`	`DTRemenak`	`well, people who write rootkits rewrite ps to not show their apps, you could do the same thing to hide bzadmin's args :)`
`18:10.57`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: hopefully fix the bug where dead folks don't respawn on their bases after a capture`
`18:10.59`	`blast007`	`bzflag.exe - 68 error(s), 22 warning(s)`
`18:11.03`	`Nidhoggr`	`<PROTECTED>`
`18:11.19`	`trepan`	`...that one needs testing; not my code originally, so don't know the nuances`
`18:11.22`	`DTRemenak`	`blast007: that doesn't sound good`
`18:11.41`	`blast007`	`think it might just be a header order thing`
`18:12.49`	`Nidhoggr`	`I just did a cvs update, ./configure and make. I didn't make clean.`
`18:13.32`	`blast007`	`DTRemenak: what defines _MSC_VER ? A Microsoft compiler?`
`18:13.44`	`DTRemenak`	`yes, any microsoft C compiler`
`18:14.07`	`DTRemenak`	`5 is 1100, 6 is 1200, 7.0 is 1300`
`18:14.09`	`blast007`	`ah, that's where I had the include before, right after #define _WINSOCK2API_`
`18:14.35`	`blast007`	`yup, that works now`
`18:15.28`	`blast007`	`apparently need to be included before URLManager.h`
`18:15.41`	`blast007`	`winsock.h, that is`
`18:15.56`	`*** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~sgk284@ws79.cs.drexel.edu)`
`18:17.34`	`DTRemenak`	`hmm`
`18:18.13`	`t-s`	`I still get kicked with too high lag (at 440ms)`
`18:18.26`	`t-s`	`ping via command line at same time:`
`18:18.32`	`t-s`	`59 packets transmitted, 59 packets received, 0% packet loss`
`18:18.32`	`t-s`	`round-trip min/avg/max = 205.713/263.212/495.631 ms`
`18:18.47`	`DTRemenak`	`blast007that does not make any sense`
`18:19.10`	`sgk284`	`Nidhoggr, you around?`
`18:19.30`	`Nidhoggr`	`?`
`18:19.31`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03timriker * 10bzflag/src/bzadmin/OptionParser.cxx: bzadmin password hiding`
`18:19.45`	`DTRemenak`	`URLManager.h does not have anything in it that would be affected by winsock's presence or non-presence.`
`18:19.46`	`Tupone`	`DTRemenak: urlmanager.h need to include common.h`
`18:20.16`	`t-s`	`there are little peaks when I look at log of ping. server grabbed exactly that peaks, not the low usual cases`
`18:20.29`	`TimRiker`	`well. it helps if I commit the change after testing it. =/`
`18:20.40`	`sgk284`	`lol`
`18:20.57`	`blast007`	`it either doesn't like being included after URLManager.h or common.h`
`18:21.05`	`t-s`	`I've a lag around 75ms, the rest is distance only`
`18:21.08`	`DTRemenak`	`Tupone: true as that is, it should not have any effect in this case`
`18:21.19`	`blast007`	`the compiler was reporting "errors" in winsock.h`
`18:21.19`	`Tupone`	`I know, but rule is rule :)`
`18:21.24`	`DTRemenak`	`yup :)`
`18:22.11`	`Grumbler`	`t-s, its the number of peaks.......so it could catch them 4 out of 10, or 4 out of 100, it will still lag kick you for high lag. suggest you find out what is running on your network and shut the busy service down`
`18:22.15`	`t-s`	`so there are 10 seconds around 210 and then one with 340 and this one is grabbed`
`18:22.54`	`Nidhoggr`	`where are you located, t-s?`
`18:23.02`	`Nidhoggr`	`it really could be a bad route or something`
`18:23.14`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/include/URLManager.h: common.h first. As Tupone says, a rule is a rule.`
`18:23.18`	`t-s`	`Grumbler: I don't have a network, directly connected via ADSL-"modem" to provider`
`18:23.25`	`t-s`	`Nidhoggr: Germany`
`18:23.35`	`Tupone`	`t-s, there is an issue on 2.0.0, so the number of lag pick are half of the one specified`
`18:23.46`	`sgk284`	`the password for bzflag isn't sent as plaintext to the server right?`
`18:23.47`	`Tupone`	`fixed in CVS HEAD`
`18:23.58`	`Tupone`	`that is a server problem`
`18:24.00`	`sgk284`	`bzbb gives a token and the token gets sent to the bzfs server`
`18:24.04`	`sgk284`	`right?`
`18:24.10`	`bryjen`	`sgk284: correct`
`18:24.14`	`DTRemenak`	`blast007: yeah, winsock needs to be before common <ugh>`
`18:24.16`	`sgk284`	`okay`
`18:24.32`	`Nidhoggr`	`t-s running a test to your ip for a while.`
`18:24.38`	`blast007`	`DTRemenak: k`
`18:24.48`	`Tupone`	`DTRemenak: if that is the need, we have to change common`
`18:24.50`	`t-s`	`Tupone: so it is only randomness?`
`18:25.14`	`DTRemenak`	`blast007: I still don't get why you need it at all though :)`
`18:25.34`	`t-s`	`Nidhoggr: Sorry for causing so much trouble :-(`
`18:25.42`	`Tupone`	`its lag, you get a warning for any period of high lag`
`18:25.53`	`sgk284`	`bryjen, is the md5 or plaintext sent to bzbb, just out of curiosity?`
`18:25.58`	`DTRemenak`	`Tupone: but including winsock multiple times breaks the compile. it's not protected. therefore it can't be put in common.`
`18:26.11`	`Tupone`	`should protect common then`
`18:26.27`	`Tupone`	`with an #ifdef _COMMON ?`
`18:26.28`	`DTRemenak`	`probably should anyway`
`18:26.54`	`DTRemenak`	`it's also a very large and very dirty header`
`18:27.12`	`bryjen`	`sgk284: i donno about that.`
`18:27.15`	`DTRemenak`	`and it conflicts with winsock2.h which we include elsewhere`
`18:27.21`	`sgk284`	`okay:)`
`18:27.30`	`Tupone`	`DTRemenak: it is already protected`
`18:27.34`	`Grumbler`	`t-s, if there are no other computers on your network, then i suggest look to see what is running on your computer.....ie, mail, im, irc....anything that could have burst lag`
`18:27.36`	`sgk284`	`TimRiker, does bzbb get the md5 or plaintext password?`
`18:27.59`	`DTRemenak`	`blast007: if you take the winsock.h include out, what errors do you get?`
`18:29.48`	`Tupone`	`DTRemenak: #define _WINSOCK2API_ where is used?`
`18:30.01`	`blast007`	`http://www.pastebin.com/230901`
`18:30.08`	`DTRemenak`	`Tupone: that's what I'm trying to find now`
`18:30.15`	`TimRiker`	`sgk284: gets plain text. stores md5`
`18:30.39`	`sgk284`	`TimRiker, okay`
`18:30.49`	`Tupone`	`I guess we should move that to URLManager.h before common.h`
`18:31.03`	`Tupone`	`or put inside common.h :/`
`18:31.18`	`TimRiker`	`sgk284: sending md5 defeats the purpose of storing it in md5. ie: the password in the db is would then be the same one you need to send.`
`18:31.25`	`DTRemenak`	`Tupone: it shouldn't need any winsock stuff at all`
`18:31.31`	`sgk284`	`anythought into maybe modifying it so you make a request on bzbb, bzbb gives you some salt, then you send the md5+salt`
`18:31.50`	`sgk284`	`err nevermind... i guess the current scheme is fine`
`18:31.57`	`TimRiker`	`sgk284: then you would be effectively storing unencrypted passwords.`
`18:32.36`	`sgk284`	`an admin at secretplace expressed some minor concerns with plaintext passwords, thats the only reason i'm asking :)`
`18:32.39`	`sgk284`	`i'm responding to him now`
`18:32.58`	`t-s`	`Grumbler: Only BZFlag, Collolquy (IRC-client) and Finder is running`
`18:32.58`	`Tupone`	`DTRemenak: curl include need those?`
`18:33.19`	`DTRemenak`	`Tupone: shouldn't. that's what I'm trying to figure out`
`18:33.47`	`TimRiker`	`sgk284: next step is to use the multi interface on curl, then add ssl support and talk to the list server over https`
`18:33.59`	`sgk284`	`heh you read my mind :)`
`18:34.09`	`Nidhoggr`	`cross your fingers... we are running on generator for UPS maintenance. :)`
`18:34.18`	`DTRemenak`	`blast007: what version of curl are you using?`
`18:34.20`	`sgk284`	`heh`
`18:34.32`	`Grumbler`	`t-s, anything else possibly using a lot of cpu`
`18:35.13`	`t-s`	`Grumbler: only WindowServer`
`18:35.45`	`blast007`	`1 sec`
`18:36.00`	`blast007`	`#define LIBCURL_VERSION "7.11.1"`
`18:36.02`	`Nidhoggr`	`well, I've done a pretty long test... and the worst time I got was 302ms.`
`18:36.21`	`Nidhoggr`	`8. pD95631A2.dip.t-dialin.net 1% 704 707 207 205 207 302`
`18:37.49`	`blast007`	`tried commenting out #define HAVE_CURL 1 in ./win32/VC6/config.h, and it still gives me the errors`
`18:38.33`	`tapo`	`there's an terrible idiot on one of the rabbit server. callsign is ViPer`
`18:39.15`	`DTRemenak`	`blast007: try replacing your header block in URLManager.h with this. http://pastebin.ca/4448`
`18:40.20`	`t-s`	`In last minutes I was trying to compile BZLag by myself to get a higher CPU-load`
`18:42.38`	`t-s`	`I was playing on same server more than a year regularly several hours a day and I was only around 20 times lag kicked`
`18:43.07`	`blast007`	`DTRemenak: assuming you mean URLManager.cxx :)`
`18:43.16`	`DTRemenak`	`yes`
`18:43.17`	`DTRemenak`	`:)`
`18:44.13`	`blast007`	`bzfs.exe - 38 error(s), 3 warning(s)`
`18:44.26`	`DTRemenak`	`what are they?`
`18:44.47`	`blast007`	`1 sec, pastebin site is being slow ;)`
`18:45.06`	`TimRiker`	`list server died?`
`18:45.08`	`TimRiker`	`~bzflist`
`18:45.37`	`DTRemenak`	`no ssh response from my.b.o either`
`18:46.08`	`sgk284`	`heh guess its good that local auth is still in 2.0 :)`
`18:46.11`	`TimRiker`	`Nidhoggr: it died!`
`18:46.27`	`TimRiker`	`~page Nidhoggr my.bzflag.org is down`
`18:46.35`	`TimRiker`	`aw`
`18:46.37`	`blast007`	`DTRemenak: http://pastebin.ca/4450`
`18:46.48`	`t-s`	`Nidhoggr: bzflag.secretplace.us is no longer reachable, 100% package loss`
`18:46.57`	`sgk284`	`TimRiker, earlier he said something about it being on a generator while the ups was being repairted or something....`
`18:47.10`	`*** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (~bernt@CPE000102d0fe24-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`18:47.11`	`TimRiker`	`~bzflist`
`18:47.13`	`sgk284`	`s/repairted/repaired`
`18:47.14`	`DTRemenak`	`TimRiker: a while back we were discussing a redundant synchronized list server setup - any news on that?`
`18:47.16`	`TimRiker`	`back.`
`18:47.22`	`sgk284`	`ahh there we go:)`
`18:47.39`	`*** part/#bzflag ajb (~ajb@jabber.org.uk)`
`18:47.47`	`tapo`	`is admin of antescher here?`
`18:47.50`	`TimRiker`	`DTRemenak: setting up another list server is easy. coding the syncronization is not. That's the part that need working on.`
`18:47.59`	`DTRemenak`	`ok`
`18:48.57`	`TimRiker`	`down again...`
`18:49.43`	`DTRemenak`	`blast007: that's no good.`
`18:49.50`	`sgk284`	`~bzflist`
`18:49.57`	`DTRemenak`	`blast007: I'll work on it some more thisafternoon if you'll be around`
`18:50.22`	`TimRiker`	`can't get past ge2-3-0-25.jr1.phx3.llnw.net which looks like Nidhoggr's local router`
`18:51.08`	`blast007`	`DTRemenak: I'll probably be around here a bit`
`18:52.46`	`*** topic/#bzflag by TimRiker -> http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz \|\| Thank you, RPG! - http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=26845#26845 \|\| BZFlag 2.0.0 is Released! - Go to http://sf.net/projects/bzflag http://bzflag.org/wiki/Download \|\| list server (my.bzflag.org) down, Nid has been paged`
`18:53.29`	`Tupone`	`http://www.libsdl.org/news.php`
`18:53.43`	`blast007`	`cool :)`
`18:53.55`	`Tupone`	`I added :)`
`18:55.27`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/src/common/URLManager.cxx: common header go to file header`
`18:55.47`	`*** part/#bzflag tapo (~tapo@p50928548.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`18:56.46`	`TimRiker`	`Nidhoggr confirms there are "power problems" and they are looking into it.`
`18:57.29`	`ruskie`	`grumbl... bzflag 2 keeps segfaulting on me :'(((`
`18:58.17`	`Tupone`	`ruskie: OS ?`
`18:58.21`	`ruskie`	`linux`
`18:58.26`	`ruskie`	`2.6.10`
`18:58.30`	`ruskie`	`gcc 3.4.2`
`18:58.34`	`Tupone`	`have you a backtrace ?`
`18:58.37`	`ruskie`	`erm 3.4.3 even`
`18:58.51`	`ruskie`	`nope... how...`
`18:58.53`	`*** part/#bzflag t-s (~ts@pD95631A2.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:59.07`	`Tupone`	`did it happen a sistematically?`
`18:59.08`	`*** join/#bzflag t-s (~ts@pD95631A2.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:59.17`	`ruskie`	`Tupone, each time I start it it segfaults`
`18:59.25`	`ruskie`	`bzflag`
`18:59.25`	`ruskie`	`Fatal signal: Segmentation Fault (SDL Parachute Deployed)`
`18:59.34`	`Tupone`	`do you know how to start with gdb ?`
`18:59.47`	`ruskie`	`gdb /path/to/bzflag?`
`18:59.51`	`*** topic/#bzflag by TimRiker -> http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz \|\| Thank you, RPG! - http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=26845#26845 \|\| BZFlag 2.0.0 is Released! - Go to http://sf.net/projects/bzflag http://bzflag.org/wiki/Download`
`18:59.54`	`TimRiker`	`~bzflist`
`19:00.14`	`Tupone`	`yeah and then "run -window"`
`19:00.27`	`ruskie`	`to keep it in a window?`
`19:00.58`	`Tupone`	`yeah, so you can see the debugger, otherwise you 're locked out from you graphic screen`
`19:01.41`	`ruskie`	`lemme just get gdb working here...`
`19:02.09`	`*** part/#bzflag t-s (~ts@pD95631A2.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`19:02.10`	`ruskie`	`what's with all this ctcp versions... grumbl...`
`19:02.31`	`Tupone`	`trying to see the version without asking :)`
`19:02.53`	`ruskie`	`one day I'll start ignoring all ctcps...`
`19:03.26`	`Tupone`	`And I continue ignoring help request :)`
`19:05.28`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007_ (~blast007@198.150.76.4)`
`19:05.59`	`*** join/#bzflag TOKIMI ([U2FsdGVkX@co2.cudenver.edu)`
`19:06.16`	`*** part/#bzflag TOKIMI ([U2FsdGVkX@co2.cudenver.edu)`
`19:06.50`	`TimRiker`	`my.b.o is down again...`
`19:07.51`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh so the new deoderant worked? ;)`
`19:08.07`	`JeffM2501`	`TimRiker, I have his cell phone # if you want it`
`19:08.27`	`menotume`	`lol JeffM2501`
`19:09.02`	`ruskie`	`:))`
`19:10.13`	`poxy`	`Anybody have an idea of what configure arguments I need on a system that conforms to hier(4) (installed libs for curl are in /usr/local/lib, includes are /usr/local/include, n/curses lib is in /usr/lib`
`19:10.20`	`poxy`	`to get it to compile?`
`19:11.05`	`poxy`	`Actually... I think what im missing at this point is GL.h... SO hold on before you do any thinking`
`19:15.01`	`ruskie`	`Tupone, still here...`
`19:15.19`	`Tupone`	`and you get gdb working?`
`19:15.25`	`ruskie`	`yup`
`19:15.50`	`Tupone`	`did you run bzflag withing gdb within window?`
`19:15.56`	`ruskie`	`yup...`
`19:16.03`	`Tupone`	`and did it segfault?`
`19:16.10`	`ruskie`	`Program received signal SIGFPE, Arithmetic exception.`
`19:16.11`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: I paged him. he's working on it.`
`19:16.11`	`ruskie`	`0xb7764534 in ?? ()`
`19:16.28`	`Tupone`	`try bt`
`19:16.38`	`Tupone`	`if it is big do not paste here`
`19:16.42`	`*** topic/#bzflag by TimRiker -> http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz \|\| Thank you, RPG! - http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=26845#26845 \|\| BZFlag 2.0.0 is Released! - Go to http://sf.net/projects/bzflag http://bzflag.org/wiki/Download \|\| list server (my.bzflag.org) may be up and down, power tests`
`19:16.51`	`ruskie`	`it's a lot... and it seems no debugging symbols...`
`19:16.55`	`poxy`	`ruskie: paste in http://pastebin.dyndns.org/`
`19:17.45`	`Tupone`	`some names, understandable?`
`19:18.06`	`JeffM2501`	`TimRiker, ok cool`
`19:18.38`	`orange`	`so motd and server list come from different places?`
`19:18.46`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`19:18.49`	`JeffM2501`	`motd is from SF`
`19:18.55`	`Tupone`	`ruskie: you did remove the old config file, after installing the new version`
`19:19.12`	`TimRiker`	`Nid says "Idiot contractors have killed power 3 times now. Powering off til stable. Will keep you posted"`
`19:19.23`	`JeffM2501`	`ohh that has to suck`
`19:19.32`	`poxy`	`Actually... I have gl.h installed in /usr/X11R6/include/GL`
`19:19.32`	`ruskie`	`Tupone, ohhh could thate be the problem?`
`19:19.38`	`Tupone`	`yeah`
`19:19.40`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007_ (~blast007@198.150.76.4)`
`19:19.48`	`Tupone`	`not GL`
`19:20.03`	`poxy`	`it's under GL/`
`19:20.17`	`Tupone`	`who, what where?`
`19:20.27`	`ruskie`	`removed and I still get the segfault...`
`19:20.29`	`poxy`	`<PROTECTED>`
`19:20.52`	`Tupone`	`poxy, can you make a link to /usr/include/`
`19:21.14`	`Tupone`	`ruskie: paste the bt on pastebin`
`19:21.21`	`poxy`	`That's blasphemy... configure should be able to work this`
`19:21.35`	`Tupone`	`patch welcome`
`19:22.00`	`poxy`	`patch to make it work on a machine that uses hier(4) ?`
`19:22.16`	`Tupone`	`ln -sf /usr/X11R6/include/GL`
`19:23.49`	`poxy`	`What artificial intelligence can be used with bz's robots?`
`19:24.03`	`ruskie`	`Tupone, http://pastebin.dyndns.org/37`
`19:24.15`	`Tupone`	`poxy: just a joke, from Tim :/`
`19:25.07`	`poxy`	`Take a look at netris... It can be done`
`19:25.45`	`Tupone`	`ruskie: eek, too big. please, reconfigure with --enable-debug and rebuild it`
`19:25.51`	`ruskie`	`ok`
`19:26.24`	`poxy`	`cool, strace and gdb backtrace info`
`19:27.09`	`*** join/#bzflag Sbgodin (~Chris@sbgodin.dyndns.org)`
`19:27.36`	`poxy`	`cool, somebody paid dyndns.org for rev dns capability`
`19:27.41`	`ruskie`	`rebuilding with enable debug... I hope make install doesn't do automatic striping... like most ppl like it...`
`19:27.59`	`poxy`	`Heh, that'd be funny..compile with debugging symbols, and then install with --strip`
`19:28.16`	`Sbgodin`	`Hi all. "List server send failed: Connection timed out" is familiar to you ?`
`19:28.17`	`ruskie`	`yeah well happned to me with a lot of softs`
`19:28.31`	`ruskie`	`I disabled strip optimization on my system...`
`19:28.35`	`JeffM2501`	`Sbgodin, read the topic`
`19:28.35`	`poxy`	`Sbgodin: there are power problems where the list server is being hosted`
`19:29.16`	`Sbgodin`	`Okay. the 20 last caracters of the 250-long caracters topic ;-) I'll pay attention, next time.`
`19:29.19`	`ruskie`	`-mcpu=' is deprecated. Use `-mtune=' or '-march=' instead.
`19:29.30`	`JeffM2501`	`then end is allways current`
`19:29.37`	`ruskie`	`someone might want to fix all the shitloads of these messages I'm getting :))`
`19:29.50`	`JeffM2501`	`ruskie, please watch your language`
`19:30.00`	`ruskie`	`what did I say something bad?`
`19:30.04`	`poxy`	`yes, this is a kids' channel`
`19:30.12`	`JeffM2501`	`tis a fmaly orientd channel`
`19:30.14`	`JeffM2501`	`there are kids here`
`19:30.18`	`ruskie`	`now if I'd have said g&/%$&# then I'd be cursing`
`19:30.27`	`Sbgodin`	`Btw, list server also host global login ? (family-kind question)`
`19:30.31`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`19:30.43`	`poxy`	`If you dont censor yourself, somebody will ;)`
`19:31.41`	`Sbgodin`	`Another question, What if I want to save my favorite servers ? As fredcods' :-)`
`19:31.55`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/ (BUGS ChangeLog): CTF restart, Chat on a single line, SEGV with no audio fixed`
`19:31.55`	`Sbgodin`	`I never remind the server name and port.`
`19:31.57`	`JeffM2501`	`there is no bookmarking support`
`19:32.19`	`JeffM2501`	`there is an option to cache the last good listeserver list`
`19:32.20`	`poxy`	`ooh, bookmarks would be a great idea`
`19:32.21`	`JeffM2501`	`that's about itl`
`19:32.23`	`Tupone`	`Sbgodin: play only with you're preffered. It stay there`
`19:32.41`	`JeffM2501`	`but if they require login then your not going to get in`
`19:32.42`	`ruskie`	`alias is your friend :))`
`19:32.49`	`Sbgodin`	`Must take a look at the list cache, then. It may be disable.`
`19:32.59`	`JeffM2501`	`it's an option`
`19:33.03`	`Sbgodin`	`alias ? Good idea, but no icon-friendly.`
`19:33.19`	`sgk284`	`timriker, have any ideas about syncing the list in the future?`
`19:33.19`	`ruskie`	`acctually icon friendly == run it as one...`
`19:33.26`	`ruskie`	`<-- uses no icons and such...`
`19:33.35`	`JeffM2501`	`sgk284, syncing it to what?`
`19:33.36`	`Sbgodin`	`of course.`
`19:34.00`	`Sbgodin`	`Server list cache is off/backup mode. What does it mean ?`
`19:34.01`	`sgk284`	`JeffM2501, earlier the idea was brought up to have duplication of servers`
`19:34.12`	`sgk284`	`tim said the biggest hurdle was keeping them in synch`
`19:34.23`	`JeffM2501`	`well sure, but that's a LOT more then just sycning, it's just the hardest part`
`19:34.42`	`JeffM2501`	`changes need to be made to bz to make it support looking for more then 1`
`19:34.51`	`sgk284`	`maybe i'm missing something... i don't see anything too complicated with making two spearte lists show the same information`
`19:34.59`	`sgk284`	`especially when one of them is just a backup`
`19:35.08`	`sgk284`	`so like 5 minutes behind wouldnt be a killer`
`19:35.11`	`JeffM2501`	`mysql dosn't realy support sycning`
`19:35.11`	`poxy`	`i doubt it would be too hard... when a change is made to one, it contacts all the others, and notifies them of the change`
`19:35.21`	`JeffM2501`	`what if they get out of sycn`
`19:35.23`	`poxy`	`JeffM2501: it supports replication`
`19:35.24`	`JeffM2501`	`due to a split`
`19:35.46`	`JeffM2501`	`it dosnt' support a remerge when they are out of sync`
`19:36.01`	`JeffM2501`	`it means the backup would need to be read only`
`19:36.17`	`JeffM2501`	`cus there could be cases where both are writen to, then they need to resync`
`19:36.23`	`JeffM2501`	`and that needs to be resolved.`
`19:36.37`	`ruskie`	`here's an idea for bookmarks... make bzflag:// protocol support for web browsers :)) then you can have full bookmarks :))`
`19:36.47`	`JeffM2501`	`ruskie, code it up`
`19:36.55`	`ruskie`	`<-- not a coder... bash scripter...`
`19:37.09`	`ruskie`	`but I do have some insane ideas from time to time...`
`19:37.11`	`JeffM2501`	`too bad`
`19:37.22`	`sgk284`	`quick question, once bzfs notifies the list, does the list make sure that its still there or does the server send something to the effect of a keep alive packet?`
`19:37.42`	`ruskie`	`and yes it's true... make install strips the binary...`
`19:38.24`	`JeffM2501`	`sgk284, there are updates the server has to send`
`19:38.57`	`TimRiker`	`sgk284: both.`
`19:39.22`	`sgk284`	`whats wrong with just having bzfs notify list server a and list server b? and any furute notifications go to both...`
`19:39.31`	`TimRiker`	`list server reconnects to verify the ip:port, and bzfs reconnects to update the entry, else it expires`
`19:39.45`	`sgk284`	`and both list servers will indepentently do whatever checking they do`
`19:39.51`	`TimRiker`	`sgk284: and where do lists get maintained?`
`19:40.12`	`TimRiker`	`info like user tokens, groups, etc.`
`19:40.27`	`TimRiker`	`not to mention user callsigns/passwords`
`19:40.52`	`TimRiker`	`ie: what happens when they get out of sync?`
`19:40.52`	`poxy`	`yay, i finally got it working`
`19:40.56`	`sgk284`	`hmm okay, guess i'll think about it alitte more :)`
`19:41.00`	`poxy`	`TimRiker: the newest change overrides all`
`19:41.12`	`poxy`	`TimRiker: how do eggdrops do it?`
`19:41.20`	`TimRiker`	`poxy: and how do you which is the "newest" ?`
`19:41.25`	`poxy`	`timestamp`
`19:41.40`	`TimRiker`	`poxy: iirc eggdrops have a master.`
`19:41.57`	`poxy`	`yes, they also have a secondary, and can operate independently until the master is back up`
`19:41.59`	`TimRiker`	`poxy: ah, but who's timestamp?`
`19:42.01`	`poxy`	`then all changes are synched back up`
`19:42.08`	`poxy`	`TimRiker: both are checked, and the newest is used`
`19:42.51`	`TimRiker`	`poxy: so what if A is master and B and C have copies. A goes down, user foo makes a change on B and user bar makes a change on C.`
`19:43.03`	`TimRiker`	`when they "sync back up" what happens?`
`19:43.50`	`TimRiker`	`or even worse... if A B and C are all up, and just can't see each other. then they each gte changes, and eventually they do see each other and then you have all kinds of mess.`
`19:44.06`	`poxy`	`they all sync up gracefully`
`19:44.13`	`cods`	`hmm, issuing /deregister crash bzfs`
`19:44.21`	`poxy`	`just because you cant imagine it doesnt mean it doesnt happen...check out their code..`
`19:44.27`	`*** join/#bzflag Nidhoggr (~cj@dhcp-97-phx3.llnw.com)`
`19:44.27`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v Nidhoggr] by ChanServ`
`19:44.44`	`TimRiker`	`poxy: oh, I can imagine it just fine. I'm just saying it's non-trivial.`
`19:44.50`	`Nidhoggr`	`just on with laptop to try to keep folks informed. :(`
`19:44.59`	`*** join/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@lsn-boi-catv-c113-p155.vtx.ch)`
`19:45.07`	`Nidhoggr`	`they broke an 800amp transfer switch and we can't trust power.`
`19:45.08`	`TimRiker`	`Nidhoggr: router looks up, but my.b.o is still down, yes?`
`19:45.11`	`Nidhoggr`	`so we have stuff turned off.`
`19:45.16`	`TimRiker`	`ah`
`19:45.31`	`bryjen`	`individual items in the db would need timestamps and there'd have to be a conflict detector/remerge procedure`
`19:45.33`	`Nidhoggr`	`so when they give the power an OK, I will turn it on.`
`19:45.44`	`Nidhoggr`	`as it is, it booted, and lost power, 3 times.`
`19:45.46`	`Nidhoggr`	`I'm livid.`
`19:46.03`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o Nidhoggr] by ChanServ`
`19:46.13`	`menotume`	`hi livid`
`19:46.31`	`sgk284`	`TimRiker, make A the master, B and/or C sync with A. B and C are read only. If A stops responding, bzflag queries B or C. The sync wouldn't have to be in realtime, just like once a day or something (well other then the list server which changes frequently)`
`19:46.43`	`Nidhoggr`	`I'm trying to breath.`
`19:46.43`	`Pimpi`	`Nidhoggr: hardware problems on the listserver?`
`19:47.00`	`poxy`	`bryjen: exactly...each entry in the eggdrop user file has a timestamp`
`19:47.07`	`Nidhoggr`	`pimpi: datacenter is on generator with a band transfer switch. it's gone down 3 times in an hour.`
`19:47.11`	`poxy`	`and they dont sync up to eahc other if the individual timestamps are too far offf`
`19:47.17`	`Nidhoggr`	`err bad transfer switch.`
`19:47.20`	`sgk284`	`but not many users register in a given day so if the lsit is down and they registered that day, well they jsut wont authenticate :)`
`19:47.26`	`Nidhoggr`	`on a better note, macirssi is nice.`
`19:49.30`	`Nidhoggr`	`heh`
`19:49.45`	`poxy`	`oh.. i forgot about the new 2.0 big brother thing`
`19:49.47`	`bryjen`	`he is Rikutis of mborg, we have been assimilated! ;)`
`19:49.58`	`sgk284`	`poxy, huh?`
`19:50.51`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007_ (~blast@dialup-4.158.219.136.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net)`
`19:51.01`	`TimRiker`	`Grumbler: mbo work for you?`
`19:51.15`	`sgk284`	`woah my university started prepending Mr. to my name in emails ... wierd`
`19:51.31`	`sgk284`	`~bzflist`
`19:51.32`	`TimRiker`	`sgk284: you must be getting old.`
`19:51.34`	`bryjen`	`you would prefer Ms?`
`19:51.38`	`sgk284`	`lol`
`19:52.30`	`Grumbler`	`when it takes 8 years to graduate, they start doing things like that`
`19:52.33`	`sgk284`	`i'm gonna go play in the snow so i feel young again...`
`19:53.13`	`sgk284`	`err actually i have class in 7 minutes...better get running`
`19:53.49`	`bryjen`	`"ssh: connect to host cvs.sourceforge.net port 22: Connection refused" bah!`
`19:54.01`	`ruskie`	`hmmm weird if I run it from the source dir with -directory it runs properly...`
`19:55.10`	`Grumbler`	`its all a conspiracy i tell ya......list server down, sf servers borked..............they are coming for us all..............soilent green is people`
`19:56.43`	`*** join/#bzflag odie (~odie@lsne-catv-dhcp-14-47.urbanet.ch)`
`20:00.23`	`poxy`	`im hit im hit...the black machine guns from the black 'copters got me...`
`20:01.11`	`poxy`	`heh, i started bzflag compiling.. i left, got lunch, ate it, and it's still compiling`
`20:01.30`	`Nidhoggr`	`found out they have a bad part on the transfer switch and we'll have to go completely dark to replace it.`
`20:01.42`	`Nidhoggr`	`they are trying to find someone who can fix it.`
`20:01.47`	`poxy`	`funy`
`20:01.48`	`Nidhoggr`	`and has the part in stock.`
`20:02.01`	`poxy`	`what power company?`
`20:02.10`	`Nidhoggr`	`it's a building power problem.`
`20:02.15`	`Nidhoggr`	`not a power company problem.`
`20:02.24`	`poxy`	`im sorry`
`20:02.33`	`Nidhoggr`	`transfer switch is 800amp switch to cut to/from commercial power.`
`20:05.02`	`*** join/#bzflag benny (~benny@83-134-75-78.Gent.GoPlus.FastDSL.tiscali.be)`
`20:05.36`	`benny`	`ibot: bzflist`
`20:05.41`	`*** join/#bzflag TOKIMI ([U2FsdGVkX@co2.cudenver.edu)`
`20:05.53`	`Nidhoggr`	`benny: it won't work if the listserver is down.`
`20:05.59`	`benny`	`???`
`20:06.01`	`blast007`	`benny: look at the topic ;)`
`20:06.31`	`benny`	`topic?`
`20:06.35`	`Nidhoggr`	`was going to grab lunch when it happened... maybe I can get boss to order food.`
`20:06.39`	`Sbgodin`	`the three big lines..;`
`20:06.47`	`benny`	`stupid windoze client <:(`
`20:06.47`	`poxy`	`type /topic`
`20:06.59`	`poxy`	`"stupid linux client!!"`
`20:07.29`	`benny`	`what happend to the list server?`
`20:07.42`	`Nidhoggr`	`power outage at the datacenter it is in.`
`20:07.58`	`benny`	`oh my...`
`20:08.06`	`benny`	`whats the expexted downtime?`
`20:08.30`	`Sbgodin`	`Anyway, with bzfls we could do our own list but it won't be the list.`
`20:08.33`	`Nidhoggr`	`still no solid ETA. they found the problem, now they gotta find someone who can fix it.`
`20:09.25`	`Thumper_`	`sbgodin: you need the address for FredCods rabbit server?`
`20:09.34`	`Sbgodin`	`It may be cool :-)`
`20:10.00`	`Sbgodin`	`And the port.`
`20:10.45`	`Thumper_`	`sbgodin: rabbit2.0 bzflag3.tuxee.net:45155 olympic2.0 bzflag.norang.ca:25154 (old versions are ports 45154 and 5154 resp.)`
`20:11.25`	`Sbgodin`	`Thumper_: thank you :-)`
`20:13.42`	`benny`	`anyone got a suggestion?`
`20:14.32`	`Grumbler`	`isnt this why they put that cache option in the join menu?`
`20:14.36`	`Nidhoggr`	`~bzfquery bzflag.tuxee.net:45155`
`20:14.45`	`ruskie`	`ahh got bzflag working finnaly...`
`20:15.21`	`Grumbler`	`fyi the olympic server has a very cool ice skating area`
`20:15.25`	`benny`	`cache is no good if you just did a fresh install :(`
`20:15.46`	`Grumbler`	`well, you could just pick random words and numbers and see if you connect`
`20:15.51`	`Grumbler`	`;)`
`20:15.55`	`poxy`	`use 66.9.27.147:6700`
`20:16.31`	`*** topic/#bzflag by TimRiker -> http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz \|\| Thank you, RPG! - http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=26845#26845 \|\| BZFlag 2.0.0 is Released! - Go to http://sf.net/projects/bzflag http://bzflag.org/wiki/Download \|\| list server (my.bzflag.org) may be down, email Nidhggr an 800amp transfer switch to fix it.`
`20:16.41`	`Grumbler`	`heh`
`20:17.05`	`ruskie`	`hmmm now where can I find a compatible server to mess about...`
`20:17.15`	`poxy`	`2.0 server/`
`20:17.18`	`benny`	`800am yeez what timezone would that be`
`20:17.28`	`poxy`	`ill have my map until 2.0 today or tomorrow some time.. that is if it compiles and doesnt crash`
`20:17.40`	`ruskie`	`something in the genereal area of slovenia i.e. italy, hungary, croatia, germany`
`20:17.49`	`ruskie`	`austria`
`20:17.53`	`Nidhoggr`	`tim :)`
`20:17.55`	`poxy`	`heh, mine is in manhattan`
`20:18.00`	`Grumbler`	`tuxee would work ruskie`
`20:18.05`	`benny`	`ah just +1h then`
`20:18.20`	`poxy`	`benny: 800 ampere, not am or pm`
`20:18.28`	`Nidhoggr`	`grrr. people left the room and went to work on stuff which we are supposed to leave down just to get away from answering phones. I'm gunna go postal.`
`20:18.54`	`benny`	`@poxy: bangs his head to the wall`
`20:18.59`	`benny`	`sry`
`20:19.02`	`*** join/#bzflag bailmann (~user@a81-14-165-43.net-htp.de)`
`20:19.25`	`bailmann`	`hi there, i got a problem with bzflag`
`20:19.41`	`poxy`	`read the topic befre you speajk`
`20:19.44`	`bailmann`	`it doesn't list any server`
`20:19.59`	`bailmann`	`ahh i see - thx`
`20:21.07`	`bailmann`	`allready upgraded to 2.0 - thaught it was that`
`20:21.07`	`Thumper_`	`TimRiker: can't we just fax him one? (re: Nidhoggr and transfer switch) ... btw you blew his callsign in the topic ;)`
`20:21.07`	`ruskie`	`Grumbler, tuxee errores out...`
`20:21.07`	`benny`	`anyone know a server for 2.0? its either that or get some work done... :p`
`20:21.07`	`ruskie`	`benny, I'm looking for one as well :))`
`20:21.07`	`poxy`	`benny: mine in about an hour or so`
`20:21.09`	`*** topic/#bzflag by TimRiker -> http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz \|\| Thank you, RPG! - http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=26845#26845 \|\| BZFlag 2.0.0 is Released! - Go to http://sf.net/projects/bzflag http://bzflag.org/wiki/Download \|\| list server (my.bzflag.org) may be down, email/fax/im Nidhoggr an 800amp transfer switch to fix it.`
`20:21.15`	`poxy`	`BTW, what do I have to do to get a bzflag 1.10 world to work in 2?`
`20:21.37`	`Legoguy`	`here's an idea: why not include a working listserver with the motd data?`
`20:21.47`	`bryjen`	`world files shouldn't need anything`
`20:21.50`	`poxy`	`motd and listserver are the same box?\`
`20:21.51`	`Legoguy`	`url to a working listserver that is`
`20:22.01`	`*** join/#bzflag Maligor (~maligor@a80-186-63-120.elisa-laajakaista.fi)`
`20:22.03`	`Legoguy`	`doesn't seem to be, motd works`
`20:22.07`	`Legoguy`	`afaict`
`20:22.08`	`bryjen`	`motd pulls from an url at sourceforge`
`20:22.14`	`Thumper_`	`Tim: :)`
`20:23.00`	`*** join/#bzflag Wilinckx (~willem@ip-195-95-93-75.dsl.scarlet.be)`
`20:24.28`	`bryjen`	`looks like brlcad fixed up bzfs talking to multiple list servers (from 2.0 Changelog). just need the client to check them and merge lists`
`20:24.31`	`*** join/#bzflag theEnemy (~jifl@cpc3-cmbg5-3-0-cust28.cmbg.cable.ntl.com)`
`20:24.52`	`*** join/#bzflag dingelhopper (~administr@p54873499.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`20:26.26`	`dingelhopper`	`ibot: bzflist`
`20:26.40`	`Tupone`	`dingelhopper: see topic ^^^`
`20:26.51`	`dingelhopper`	`:)`
`20:27.27`	`poxy`	`man, bzflag 2.0 takes 50 times as much time to compile as 1.10.6`
`20:27.32`	`*** join/#bzflag SC (sportygali@67-21-174-30.stmnca.adelphia.net)`
`20:28.04`	`*** join/#bzflag Sporty (~SportChic@ca-redbch-cuda1-c5b-b-192.stmnca.adelphia.net)`
`20:29.27`	`bryjen`	`hi hi hi hi SC / SportChick / Sporty / SportyGal`
`20:29.33`	`odie`	`FYI: v2.0 of bzflag0.gamesunited.de is available at tankwar.gamesunited.de:5156`
`20:29.45`	`retro`	`hey sc`
`20:30.15`	`SC`	`hiy bryjen and retro`
`20:31.53`	`*** join/#bzflag BatMan (~Azureus@h196n2fls32o293.telia.com)`
`20:32.23`	`theEnemy`	`are there plans to move the list server dns entry to point somewhere else?`
`20:32.32`	`BatMan`	`why cant you connect to the server list?`
`20:32.47`	`BatMan`	`oh, let me guess, server down?`
`20:32.48`	`retro`	`read the topic BatMan`
`20:33.10`	`retro`	`Sounds like a power outage at CoLo from the limited info in the topic.`
`20:33.28`	`BatMan`	`hmm, thx, using a wierd irc client.. the topic is somewhat hidden.. hehe..`
`20:33.33`	`BatMan`	`oh, found it.. =)`
`20:33.54`	`retro`	`800 amp transfer switches are serious power hardware. Not found in homes. Must be a commercial setting.`
`20:34.06`	`ruskie`	`just tried bzflag 2 on a random map.... drooooooooooooooooolllll`
`20:34.09`	`poxy`	`BatMan: type /topic`
`20:35.00`	`BatMan`	`oh, serious.. I need to get a new client.. "the /topic command isn't supported" haha..`
`20:35.15`	`BatMan`	`but i've read it now`
`20:35.56`	`BatMan`	`but i don't get it, it's just down, just to wait for some nice guys to fix it?`
`20:36.31`	`*** join/#bzflag S1gn (~ngis@bzq-82-81-170-233.red.bezeqint.net)`
`20:36.38`	`BatMan`	`sorry if im dumb, but i aren't that good at english. =D`
`20:37.08`	`S1gn`	`is there any alternative servlist url?`
`20:37.25`	`Nidhoggr`	`not presently.`
`20:37.34`	`ndim`	`# Just for kicks`
`20:37.34`	`ndim`	`AC_MSG_CHECKING([for artificial intelligence for bz's robots])`
`20:37.34`	`ndim`	`AC_MSG_RESULT([not found])`
`20:37.39`	`ndim`	`ROTFL`
`20:38.27`	`BatMan`	`yeah, well thanks for the information anyway.., good to know it's not just me.`
`20:38.39`	`Maligor`	`wouldn't Artificial Sentience be more appropriate?`
`20:40.29`	`*** join/#bzflag Scumbag (~chatzilla@dynadsl-080-228-86-133.ewetel.net)`
`20:40.47`	`S1gn`	`I assume somebdy already emailed/faxed/im'ed Nidhoggr about my.BZFlag.org problem`
`20:41.27`	`*** join/#bzflag xxxl (~nunya@66-108-60-91.nyc.rr.com)`
`20:41.34`	`Scumbag`	`ibot: bzflist`
`20:41.51`	`poxy`	`Scumbag: type /topic and read all of the topic`
`20:42.19`	`*** part/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@lsn-boi-catv-c113-p155.vtx.ch)`
`20:42.24`	`Scumbag`	`Oh ... thanx`
`20:42.24`	`xxxl`	`is secretplac down too ?`
`20:42.26`	`xxxl`	`sup poxy`
`20:42.32`	`xxxl`	`im the nyc dude`
`20:42.44`	`Scumbag`	`what shall i do the whole evening now?!?`
`20:42.46`	`xxxl`	`from efnet`
`20:43.06`	`xxxl`	`manually enter server info ?`
`20:43.21`	`Scumbag`	`have none, cleared the cache`
`20:43.33`	`xxxl`	`ooooooh that hurts`
`20:43.37`	`poxy`	`hrm... i dont recall...`
`20:43.48`	`xxxl`	`i can't get on secretplace , the 2.0 one`
`20:43.55`	`poxy`	`im still compiling bzfs 2.0`
`20:43.55`	`xxxl`	`havent tried old version`
`20:44.07`	`poxy`	`my server's still up`
`20:44.18`	`xxxl`	`i cant play on your crackhead server`
`20:44.18`	`bryjen`	`secretplace and the list server are in the same place`
`20:44.24`	`Scumbag`	`whats your IP and port? :)`
`20:44.31`	`poxy`	`66.9.27.147 6700`
`20:45.05`	`xxxl`	`bryjen: ahhh`
`20:45.24`	`xxxl`	`what is the address to 'little hop' on ducati ?`
`20:46.07`	`*** join/#bzflag bone_idol (~bone_idol@springnight.burngreave.net)`
`20:46.32`	`poxy`	`If you're truly bored, you can watch my girlfriend's betta splendens spawn tank... there are 5 little babies swimming around`
`20:46.42`	`poxy`	`http://bettagirl.com/cam/cam.html It's rated G... and always will be G...`
`20:47.27`	`xxxl`	`u dont know the addy for ducati ?`
`20:47.31`	`*** join/#bzflag Electric1lf (~david@serifos.eecs.harvard.edu)`
`20:48.45`	`Tupone`	`ducati.bzflag.org`
`20:49.02`	`Tupone`	`59156`
`20:49.06`	`bone_idol`	`i'm trying to compile new BZflag`
`20:49.15`	`bone_idol`	`but its saying it can't find SDL`
`20:49.25`	`bone_idol`	`sdl-config is in /usr/bin`
`20:49.34`	`xxxl`	`tx tupone`
`20:49.39`	`Tupone`	`what OS and distribution?`
`20:49.52`	`bone_idol`	`SuSe 9.2`
`20:49.56`	`bone_idol`	`Linux`
`20:50.14`	`Tupone`	`do you installed the dev package for sdl, mesa, x ...`
`20:50.50`	`Tupone`	`libX11-dev, libGLMesa-dev, SDL-dev . Not sure about the name`
`20:50.58`	`bone_idol`	`I think so .. I 've always managed to compile previously`
`20:51.05`	`bone_idol`	`SDL is a new dependecy ?`
`20:51.09`	`Tupone`	`yeah`
`20:51.17`	`bryjen`	`bone_idol: sdl-config --version ?`
`20:51.34`	`bone_idol`	`1.2.7`
`20:51.51`	`bryjen`	`that should work`
`20:52.17`	`bone_idol`	`can I tell ./configure to make it find it ?`
`20:52.31`	`Tupone`	`see if you have the dev package for SDL if yes, look at config.log`
`20:53.03`	`Scumbag`	`not my day`
`20:53.10`	`Scumbag`	`not my server ... :)`
`20:56.19`	`poxy`	`Grumbler: a UPS is to allow enough time for a graceful shutdown`
`20:57.02`	`Grumbler`	`heh, well, i have worked an hour or two before graceful shutdown.....it bought an hour`
`20:57.45`	`poxy`	`I have all my electronic equipment on a UPS.. it can power it all.. plus the tv`
`20:58.18`	`bryjen`	`Grumbler: the switch flops between outside power and generator, there'd be an UPS on the equipment side big enough to hold the equipment up long enough for the generator to spool up`
`20:58.38`	`poxy`	`spool? :P`
`20:59.02`	`bryjen`	`sha, gas-turbine ;)`
`20:59.18`	`Grumbler`	`not diesel`
`20:59.22`	`newbie_dont`	`is list server down at the moment?`
`20:59.27`	`poxy`	`newbie_dont: type /topic`
`20:59.28`	`orchid`	`I thought the big push was to have listserver redundancy? I recall people upset when it used to be only on tims machine, and would go down, redundancy! we all cried, now weve just moved it to another location? (just wondering)`
`21:00.00`	`bryjen`	`just kidding. "spool up" as in come up from stopped to a usable stable state`
`21:00.00`	`poxy`	`I think the TTL for the list server should be 5 minutes, and in cases like this, a manual intervention should be used...`
`21:00.00`	`Grumbler`	`the cache was suppose to help i think.....but it doesnt help when it crashes around a release`
`21:00.03`	`poxy`	`wouldnt be too bad`
`21:00.15`	`newbie_dont`	`i know but i want to be sure that problem lies on the side of server`
`21:00.43`	`Grumbler`	`thats your cue poxy to give out your server info`
`21:01.12`	`bryjen`	`the transfer switch is probly the single-weakest-point-of-failure in Nidhoggr's setup`
`21:02.34`	`Grumbler`	`its a little better then the riker server that the dog kept tripping over :)`
`21:03.17`	`bailmann`	`does anybody know any servers where people play? tankwar.gamesunited.de:5156 is empty at the moment`
`21:04.02`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`21:04.02`	`Grumbler`	`heh`
`21:05.14`	`*** join/#bzflag david_v (~david_v@c-4ebae055.17-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se)`
`21:05.31`	`JeffM2501`	`tho I'm sure web could be done in round robin too`
`21:06.10`	`JeffM2501`	`how many IPs can a DNS refrence?`
`21:06.18`	`bryjen`	`many many`
`21:06.28`	`JeffM2501`	`so more then 3?`
`21:06.46`	`bryjen`	`yeah. i don't know if there's a limit`
`21:06.55`	`JeffM2501`	`probably 4 billion`
`21:07.06`	`bryjen`	`then there's IPv6`
`21:07.12`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`21:07.21`	`*** join/#bzflag tdfc (tdfc@sverige.freeshell.org)`
`21:07.33`	`*** join/#bzflag Nidhoggr_ (~cj@dhcp-79-phx3.llnw.com)`
`21:07.34`	`tdfc`	`is anyone experiencing difficulties connection to servers ?`
`21:07.50`	`ruskie`	`when will viper.pimpi.org be running bzfalg 2 compat???`
`21:07.50`	`odie`	`RFT`
`21:07.51`	`JeffM2501`	`everyone is`
`21:07.54`	`bryjen`	`no, everyone here stopped trying after reading the topic`
`21:07.57`	`*** part/#bzflag dingelhopper (~administr@p54873499.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`21:08.04`	`tdfc`	`i see`
`21:08.18`	`tdfc`	`no the topic is quite obscured`
`21:08.24`	`*** join/#bzflag CrazyNorman (~daniel@cpe-68-116-200-58.ma.charter.com)`
`21:08.26`	`CrazyNorman`	`hi`
`21:08.27`	`JeffM2501`	`perhaps one of the chanserv enabled people should set a welcome message`
`21:08.39`	`tdfc`	`i was scaird for a bit that i would have got banned from all servers because of hacking`
`21:08.47`	`JeffM2501`	`were you hacking?`
`21:08.50`	`tdfc`	`but after a second thought...`
`21:08.53`	`tdfc`	`me ?`
`21:08.56`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`21:08.57`	`tdfc`	`No.`
`21:09.01`	`CrazyNorman`	`I'm having a proble compiling bzflag 2.0.0 on Ubuntu (pretty much Debian), except on an AMD64 so I can't just use the normal packages`
`21:09.04`	`Grumbler`	`the topic could be cleaned up a little bit.....maybe colors, and bold face........with little anime characters pointing to it`
`21:09.05`	`JeffM2501`	`then why worry about being baned?`
`21:09.11`	`cods`	`I'm lost with new identify scheme.. I can't identify anymore. I'm not locally registered. (I know there is problem with servers) I checked my users file, and I don't have entry for my nickname. I tried by adding myself to local.global (from an admin account) but don't help.`
`21:09.11`	`CrazyNorman`	`and I get the following`
`21:09.16`	`tdfc`	`people asked if i was hacking because i had good scores`
`21:09.18`	`CrazyNorman`	`BZFlag-2.0.0.20050119 with the following:`
`21:09.18`	`CrazyNorman`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:09.18`	`CrazyNorman`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:09.18`	`CrazyNorman`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:09.18`	`CrazyNorman`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:09.19`	`CrazyNorman`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:09.22`	`tdfc`	`but i just got a lag less computer`
`21:09.27`	`JeffM2501`	`cods, if your global, you DON"T /identify`
`21:09.45`	`cods`	`JeffM2501, please..`
`21:09.46`	`CrazyNorman`	`and I installed libncurses5-dev`
`21:09.50`	`JeffM2501`	`CrazyNorman, get SDL and curses`
`21:09.51`	`cods`	`I WANT to /identify`
`21:09.58`	`*** join/#bzflag nullified (~shess@138.9.200.8)`
`21:10.01`	`CrazyNorman`	`jeffM2501: and libsdl dev`
`21:10.08`	`bryjen`	`cods, you put your password into the Join Menu`
`21:10.11`	`CrazyNorman`	`both installed`
`21:10.16`	`JeffM2501`	`cods, if your using a global Reg it happens autmaticly`
`21:10.17`	`tdfc`	`is there an alternative list server ?`
`21:10.17`	`*** part/#bzflag odie (~odie@lsne-catv-dhcp-14-47.urbanet.ch)`
`21:10.22`	`CrazyNorman`	`I have the following files`
`21:10.22`	`JeffM2501`	`the server dosnt' WANT your password`
`21:10.25`	`JeffM2501`	`it's dirty`
`21:10.28`	`CrazyNorman`	`/usr/include/curses.h`
`21:10.28`	`CrazyNorman`	`/usr/include/ncurses.h`
`21:10.28`	`CrazyNorman`	`/usr/include/ncursesw/curses.h`
`21:10.28`	`CrazyNorman`	`/usr/include/ncursesw/ncurses.h`
`21:10.28`	`CrazyNorman`	`/usr/include/slcurses.h`
`21:10.29`	`CrazyNorman`	`/usr/lib/gcc-lib/x86_64-linux/3.3.5/include/ncurses.h`
`21:10.32`	`tdfc`	`i'm really in need of playing`
`21:10.34`	`cods`	`damn.. I'm not clear.`
`21:10.47`	`JeffM2501`	`cods, are you using a bzbb username?`
`21:10.56`	`tdfc`	`CrazyNorman: we will review your submition without 48 hours, please stop now`
`21:10.56`	`JeffM2501`	`cus it ain't gonna work`
`21:11.02`	`JeffM2501`	`untill the list server is back up`
`21:11.07`	`Tupone`	`CrazyNorman: you need to install gl-dev`
`21:11.13`	`cods`	`I'm using a bzbb accound since 2 weeks, all work fine in my bzflag client. Please, it's not what i'm asking.`
`21:11.20`	`JeffM2501`	`CrazyNorman, please use pastebin for large.`
`21:11.28`	`cods`	`don't just say "DONT use that". I hate such answer.`
`21:11.31`	`JeffM2501`	`cods, what are you asking.`
`21:11.48`	`JeffM2501`	`if your using a bzbb account, then you don't identify, it's part of the system`
`21:11.57`	`CrazyNorman`	`k`
`21:11.57`	`Tupone`	`cods: DONT use that`
`21:11.59`	`JeffM2501`	`identify is just for local users with a local password`
`21:12.02`	`*** part/#bzflag TOKIMI ([U2FsdGVkX@co2.cudenver.edu)`
`21:12.06`	`cods`	`:)`
`21:12.14`	`cods`	`JeffM2501: i know... i know...`
`21:12.15`	`cods`	`ok`
`21:12.19`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`21:12.20`	`cods`	`let me try to be more clear`
`21:12.23`	`JeffM2501`	`then what do you want to do?`
`21:12.24`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`21:12.49`	`cods`	`I'm trying to login as usual in bzflaf client, using my bzbb account. So far, it worked fine for 2 weeks.`
`21:12.57`	`cods`	`today, since some hours, it don't work anymore.`
`21:13.01`	`cods`	`configuration don't changed.`
`21:13.03`	`JeffM2501`	`well that makes sense`
`21:13.06`	`JeffM2501`	`BZBB is DOWN`
`21:13.11`	`JeffM2501`	`it's tied to the list server`
`21:13.14`	`JeffM2501`	`so it won't work`
`21:13.14`	`cods`	`aaaaaaaargh`
`21:13.16`	`cods`	`please JeffM2501`
`21:13.19`	`JeffM2501`	`until it comes back`
`21:13.21`	`cods`	`I know`
`21:13.25`	`cods`	`it's what I'm saying....`
`21:13.27`	`cods`	`incredible`
`21:13.42`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`21:13.42`	`tdfc`	`i read your mind`
`21:13.51`	`JeffM2501`	`are you trying to make it into a local account?`
`21:13.59`	`JeffM2501`	`so you can still admin when the server is down?`
`21:14.25`	`ruskie`	`can someone explain me now this global/local stuff works...`
`21:14.35`	`JeffM2501`	`bzbb can when it's back`
`21:14.39`	`tdfc`	`anyone know of a server with currently over 10 players ?`
`21:14.43`	`CrazyNorman`	`Tupone: I think I have gl dev installed, cause I have gl.h in /usr/include, but it says "(missing gl.h)"`
`21:14.52`	`JeffM2501`	`tdfc, check your server list cache`
`21:14.52`	`xxxl`	`what is the port number for ducati little hop ?`
`21:14.54`	`poxy`	`tdfc: pieinthesky.kicks-ass.org port 6700 (66.9.27.147 6700)`
`21:14.58`	`tdfc`	`done that`
`21:15.03`	`tdfc`	`thanks poxy`
`21:15.13`	`Tupone`	`you have /usr/include/GL/gl.h?`
`21:15.16`	`cods`	`JeffM2501: I WANT to login with /identify with my usual nickname.`
`21:15.19`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`21:15.19`	`poxy`	`CrazyNorman: I had that problem too.. I had to set some environment variables to get it to work`
`21:15.27`	`JeffM2501`	`so yes your trying to make it into a local account`
`21:15.27`	`CrazyNorman`	`/usr/include/GL/gl.h is there`
`21:15.28`	`CrazyNorman`	`k`
`21:15.33`	`JeffM2501`	`did you do a /register ?`
`21:15.37`	`cods`	`argh`
`21:15.39`	`cods`	`yes`
`21:15.39`	`JeffM2501`	`when loged in under that name?`
`21:15.41`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`21:15.42`	`cods`	`I tried that first`
`21:15.43`	`CrazyNorman`	`poxy: Any variable in particular?`
`21:15.49`	`JeffM2501`	`so you have an entry in the userndb and passdb?`
`21:15.59`	`JeffM2501`	`for that user`
`21:16.05`	`xxxl`	`my username is illegal in the new version lol`
`21:16.11`	`poxy`	`CrazyNorman: CFLAGS LDDFLAGS, etc... check config.log to see what arguments its using.. and infer what you need to setenv or export var=something from that`
`21:16.15`	`JeffM2501`	`xxxl then pick a new one`
`21:16.17`	`cods`	`JeffM2501: ok. We can stop here. Each time you ask me what I've just explained..`
`21:16.23`	`xxxl`	`i did , ao_`
`21:16.25`	`Nidhoggr_`	`20 minutes to cutover. hopefully the switch holds out.`
`21:16.28`	`JeffM2501`	`cods, I'm trying to find out why`
`21:16.29`	`xxxl`	`added the _`
`21:16.33`	`JeffM2501`	`so I'm geting up to speed with ouy`
`21:16.34`	`JeffM2501`	`you`
`21:16.41`	`JeffM2501`	`so you may have to riterate`
`21:16.41`	`poxy`	`CrazyNorman: the things at the bottom of a ./configure`
`21:16.45`	`Chestal`	`cods: what's in your user and password file?`
`21:16.45`	`JeffM2501`	`does your server have a passdb?`
`21:16.50`	`CrazyNorman`	`poxy: k`
`21:16.53`	`cods`	`JeffM2501: Sorry. You try to help me. I know that :/`
`21:16.54`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah thats where I am now`
`21:17.01`	`JeffM2501`	`do you have a passdb?`
`21:17.12`	`poxy`	`are the old and new passdb/groupdb, etc files compatable?`
`21:17.21`	`JeffM2501`	`poxy, yes`
`21:17.26`	`JeffM2501`	`tho some group names changed`
`21:17.26`	`cods`	`I don't have a 'CODS' entry in my userdb.`
`21:17.35`	`poxy`	`I see...`
`21:17.41`	`JeffM2501`	`cods DO YOU HAVE A PASSDB?`
`21:17.51`	`poxy`	`I'll figure it out as soon as it compiles... it's been like an hour`
`21:18.02`	`cods`	`JeffM2501: sorry, I mean 'passdb' not 'userdb'. So yes.`
`21:18.07`	`JeffM2501`	`ok good`
`21:18.16`	`JeffM2501`	`and you have a user in userdb?`
`21:18.21`	`JeffM2501`	`for your CODS user?`
`21:18.31`	`cods`	`yes`
`21:18.34`	`*** join/#bzflag Elspuddy (~laptopinh@213.208.100.221)`
`21:18.39`	`JeffM2501`	`ok then it's thinking it's a remote account`
`21:18.45`	`JeffM2501`	`pull the CODS from the userdb`
`21:18.48`	`JeffM2501`	`redo the /reg`
`21:18.50`	`Elspuddy`	`hi`
`21:18.57`	`JeffM2501`	`and it should add stuff to the user and passdb`
`21:19.12`	`JeffM2501`	`make sure those 2 things happen`
`21:19.32`	`JeffM2501`	`if it dosn't do the passdb then that's the problem`
`21:19.37`	`Elspuddy`	`still tring to compile bzflag 2.0 up, managed to get libcurl to be enabled`
`21:19.38`	`JeffM2501`	`and that has to be figured out`
`21:19.44`	`tdfc`	`bzflag is SO broken`
`21:20.01`	`tdfc`	`i can't even connect to pieinthesky`
`21:20.18`	`poxy`	`That's weird... try 66.9.27.147 port 6700`
`21:20.23`	`tdfc`	`was my bzflag hacked ?`
`21:20.33`	`tdfc`	`i tried`
`21:20.38`	`tdfc`	`both hostname and ip`
`21:20.47`	`ruskie`	`I get an incompatible version on it...`
`21:20.54`	`tdfc`	`hostname can't resolve, even tho i can, ip can't connect, even tho i can`
`21:20.55`	`poxy`	`that's because you're using a 2.0 client`
`21:21.04`	`TimRiker`	`tdfc: list server is down. clear your password.`
`21:21.13`	`tdfc`	`i'm not registered`
`21:21.18`	`ruskie`	`well I do want to find a 2.0 server with more than 0 ppl...`
`21:21.21`	`TimRiker`	`hmm. then it should work.`
`21:21.25`	`*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (revol@ALyon-112-1-7-35.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`21:21.29`	`poxy`	`ruskie: why not use a 1.10 server?`
`21:21.30`	`TimRiker`	`~bzfquery 66.9.27.147:6700`
`21:21.56`	`ruskie`	`poxy, casue I'm not in the mood to downgrade bzflag... and cause I already played 1.x a lot...`
`21:21.56`	`JeffM2501`	`wow it's like having a hose in a rainstorm here :)`
`21:21.59`	`TimRiker`	`that one is a 1.10 server (note the 1910 prefix on ibot's reply)`
`21:22.07`	`Elspuddy`	`when i compile bzflag if i just want to server to compile di i just add --disable-client ?`
`21:22.12`	`cods`	`JeffM2501: so, as expected, removing the account, I can /register & /identify again normaly.`
`21:22.18`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`21:22.24`	`TimRiker`	`~bzfquery one.bzflag.org:5153`
`21:22.30`	`cods`	`but.. the problem is that I've shutdown the server for that..`
`21:22.31`	`JeffM2501`	`basicly if it has a user but no pass, it knows it's a global account`
`21:22.35`	`cods`	`fortunately, only 2 players were connected.`
`21:22.39`	`tdfc`	`i get error connecting to server`
`21:22.43`	`JeffM2501`	`cods, sadly :(`
`21:22.57`	`JeffM2501`	`cods you CAN try one thing`
`21:23.10`	`TimRiker`	`cods: you should be able to use /reload iirc.`
`21:23.15`	`JeffM2501`	`cods, if you can login as some adin ( using /password maybe ) try a /setpassword on the account.`
`21:23.23`	`JeffM2501`	`that may make a password for you.`
`21:23.26`	`poxy`	`TimRiker: that is a command I made... ;P`
`21:23.28`	`*** join/#bzflag ep (~ep@ip68-97-124-161.ok.ok.cox.net)`
`21:23.36`	`TimRiker`	`~poxy++`
`21:23.41`	`cods`	`TimRiker: doh.. /reload yep.. forgot about that.`
`21:23.42`	`xxxl`	`there's a google cache of the server list`
`21:23.48`	`poxy`	`I mean.. once upon a time... for causing bzfs to reload itself`
`21:23.58`	`cods`	`JeffM2501: ah yes, forgot too to try /password`
`21:24.01`	`poxy`	`you can take that karma away`
`21:24.08`	`Chestal`	`you can also use the in-game cache when you were connected before the list went down`
`21:24.10`	`tdfc`	`~help`
`21:24.23`	`cods`	`anyway.. why /register don't work for global account. I would have found "normal" to create a local password.`
`21:24.25`	`Chestal`	`I thought the cache should kick-in automatically, though?`
`21:24.44`	`JeffM2501`	`cods, it fails once there is allready a user there`
`21:24.50`	`ep`	`does the client log the last few servers visited?`
`21:24.51`	`xxxl`	`my in game cache is only one page`
`21:25.00`	`cods`	`I understand that. But it's this way ?`
`21:25.02`	`JeffM2501`	`cods, that's the first test, prevents anyone from messing with the password`
`21:25.02`	`cods`	`+why`
`21:25.10`	`TimRiker`	`http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:ZBW6ZSF2_zMJ:my.bzflag.org/serverlist.php+&hl=en`
`21:25.11`	`TimRiker`	`though it does not say which are 1.10 and which are 2.x`
`21:25.12`	`JeffM2501`	`cods, because /register has no permsion`
`21:25.15`	`JeffM2501`	`so anyone could do it`
`21:25.25`	`cods`	`but, what happen when server is down is that I'm kicked if I can't auth. using bzbb..`
`21:25.29`	`cods`	`it's bad IMHO`
`21:25.33`	`JeffM2501`	`if we let it, then you as an unregisterd cods could have set a password for that account`
`21:25.34`	`*** join/#bzflag SC (sportygali@67-21-174-30.stmnca.adelphia.net)`
`21:26.07`	`Chestal`	`problem might be, that the command is not widely known`
`21:26.07`	`JeffM2501`	`cods, an admin can do the set password`
`21:26.07`	`Chestal`	`but it's much more logical than using /register for that`
`21:26.07`	`ep`	`is the 'list server' down?`
`21:26.07`	`poxy`	`ep: type /topic and look at the last part`
`21:26.07`	`JeffM2501`	`cods, at the point you /register you are unverifyed, it could be anyone seting a password for you ADMIN account.`
`21:26.09`	`JeffM2501`	`cods, and that would be bad`
`21:26.14`	`JeffM2501`	`so we disallow it`
`21:26.23`	`cods`	`JeffM2501: but it's why there LOCAL.GLOBAL group no ? To prevent that IIRC.`
`21:26.31`	`*** join/#bzflag KnottyMan (~cbond@4.27.10.160)`
`21:26.36`	`poxy`	`I hope one day I understand what you're talking about.. or I don't`
`21:26.38`	`ruskie`	`so were could someone get some playing done on a bz 2.0 server...`
`21:26.53`	`JeffM2501`	`cods, when the list server is DOWN then global can't be used, you'd still be unverified`
`21:26.53`	`Chestal`	`cods: when you are logged in via global login, you can set/change local passwd with /setpass`
`21:27.00`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`21:27.04`	`Chestal`	`(same hold when you are locally identified of course)`
`21:27.04`	`poxy`	`ruskie: why cant you have two concurrent versions installed?`
`21:27.19`	`JeffM2501`	`you don't want to let /register set a password for an existing account wheny ou can't verify the user's auth`
`21:27.19`	`cods`	`Chestal: good to know.`
`21:27.21`	`ruskie`	`poxy, don't want now that I saw the new one...`
`21:27.27`	`Chestal`	`cods: when local.global is not set, the accoun tis local only`
`21:27.28`	`tdfc`	`ok i give up`
`21:27.33`	`tdfc`	`when will that be fixed ?`
`21:27.38`	`CrazyNorman`	`ok, this is weird`
`21:27.39`	`tdfc`	`the server list`
`21:27.40`	`Chestal`	`cods: any account created by /register will be this way`
`21:27.43`	`CrazyNorman`	`its finding glx.h`
`21:27.44`	`poxy`	`tdfc: could be 4-8hrs to a few days`
`21:27.45`	`JeffM2501`	`tdfc, read the topic`
`21:27.48`	`CrazyNorman`	`but not gl.h, which is in the same folder`
`21:27.55`	`poxy`	`CrazyNorman: it's a directory, not a folder`
`21:28.06`	`poxy`	`sorry... im just being too buttal`
`21:28.08`	`JeffM2501`	`cods, if we let /register do it, I could take over and set a password for any global only account on any server`
`21:28.16`	`tdfc`	`JeffM2501: i don't see that in the topic, it's quite obscure however`
`21:28.17`	`CrazyNorman`	`directory*`
`21:28.31`	`TimRiker`	`one.bzflag.org:5153 is a 2.0 server. I turned off requireidentify for the time being.`
`21:28.35`	`poxy`	`tdfc: the general answer when a time isnt given is`
`21:28.36`	`JeffM2501`	`tdfc still dosnt' change that it's there :)`
`21:28.39`	`poxy`	`"When it's ready"`
`21:28.47`	`cods`	`JeffM2501: i'm aware of that. But I would have expected to be identified without my usual rights.`
`21:28.58`	`cods`	`('permissions' I mean)`
`21:29.03`	`JeffM2501`	`cods you can't, cus you didn't have access to the list server`
`21:29.05`	`*** join/#bzflag odie (~odie@lsne-catv-dhcp-14-47.urbanet.ch)`
`21:29.09`	`tdfc`	`JeffM2501: i asked when, it just says the situation, what do you have to say for your defence ?`
`21:29.09`	`JeffM2501`	`so you were unIDed`
`21:29.27`	`ep`	`is there someplace else that lists known servers/ports`
`21:29.31`	`JeffM2501`	`tdfc, it says send him a 800 amp switch to fix it`
`21:29.37`	`tdfc`	`lol`
`21:29.40`	`JeffM2501`	`do you have one of those tdfc?`
`21:29.49`	`JeffM2501`	`if so I'd get it on a truck`
`21:29.49`	`tdfc`	`no`
`21:29.50`	`Nidhoggr_`	`ep: the listserver, which is down. :)`
`21:29.54`	`JeffM2501`	`or shuddap :)`
`21:29.56`	`Chestal`	`ducati.bzflag.org 59500 is a simple 2.0 server running handicapped FFA`
`21:29.59`	`TimRiker`	`ep: http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:ZBW6ZSF2_zMJ:my.bzflag.org/serverlist.php+&hl=en`
`21:29.59`	`poxy`	`I expect this to take days :P`
`21:30.00`	`tdfc`	`hehe`
`21:30.04`	`ep`	`how can you fax a hardware anyway -- you have to teleport!`
`21:30.21`	`JeffM2501`	`ep you have to push it realy hard`
`21:30.24`	`JeffM2501`	`I'd get on it now`
`21:30.32`	`tdfc`	`ep: no, canon made a warpable fax machine`
`21:30.35`	`TimRiker`	`ep: perhaps if you uuencode it first?`
`21:31.06`	`Chestal`	`if you zip it first, it will fit`
`21:31.37`	`poxy`	`eek...this misuse of terms and technology is going to make me cry`
`21:31.45`	`JeffM2501`	`poxy, you'll live`
`21:31.46`	`tdfc`	`i can't beleive that is happening to me now`
`21:31.58`	`poxy`	`JeffM2501: That's what I said last time...`
`21:31.59`	`tdfc`	`who ever is managing this...`
`21:32.01`	`JeffM2501`	`tdfc, go outside, see the sun.. it'll all be ok later`
`21:32.23`	`JeffM2501`	`there is a world outside the basement`
`21:32.29`	`tdfc`	`building an addiction to so many peopl then depriving them is awfull!`
`21:32.34`	`CrazyNorman`	`ok, here is the error from the log "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lopengl32" just incase, could this have anything to do with me running the nvidia drivers`
`21:32.41`	`JeffM2501`	`tdfc, welcome to the real world`
`21:32.48`	`tdfc`	`damn`
`21:32.49`	`JeffM2501`	`send me 20$ and I'll start a list server`
`21:32.54`	`tdfc`	`ok`
`21:32.54`	`Nidhoggr_`	`:)`
`21:32.58`	`tdfc`	`do you have paypal`
`21:33.02`	`JeffM2501`	`totaly`
`21:33.11`	`tdfc`	`will you really make one ?`
`21:33.21`	`Nidhoggr_`	`since cutover is in 5 minutes, we might have ours back in the next 30 minutes.`
`21:33.23`	`bone_idol`	`All compiled... now wheres the servers!`
`21:33.37`	`tdfc`	`and when will it be working`
`21:33.37`	`JeffM2501`	`actualy I probably still have one`
`21:33.42`	`tdfc`	`:\`
`21:33.43`	`*** join/#bzflag orchid (orchid@orchid.user)`
`21:33.52`	`JeffM2501`	`mine is probably still running now`
`21:34.05`	`ep`	`the damn google cache site aint loading either -- to many bzflagers hitting it`
`21:34.15`	`xxxl`	`hestal`
`21:34.32`	`tdfc`	`i'd rather donate 20$ to bzflag instead of paying someone to make something that's already suposed to work, after a second thought`
`21:34.42`	`xxxl`	`chestal, i can get on to 59156 but not 59500`
`21:34.49`	`tdfc`	`anyways, i'm going for the sun option`
`21:34.57`	`tdfc`	`thanks`
`21:35.02`	`JeffM2501`	`http://sasami.bakadigital.com/db`
`21:35.03`	`Chestal`	`xxxl: should be running, try automatic or rogue as team`
`21:35.04`	`xxxl`	`yeah right`
`21:35.05`	`JeffM2501`	`there ya go`
`21:35.07`	`JeffM2501`	`one list server`
`21:35.11`	`xxxl`	`its cold and snowing here`
`21:35.11`	`Nidhoggr_`	`heh`
`21:35.58`	`xxxl`	`no sun just bitter cold`
`21:36.04`	`*** join/#bzflag Naruto_desu (cc@h120n1fls309o1101.telia.com)`
`21:36.09`	`xxxl`	`Chestal: ill try again`
`21:36.25`	`odie`	`Chestal: just tried and it didn't work`
`21:37.04`	`xxxl`	`Chestal: same here`
`21:37.11`	`xxxl`	`59156 works tho`
`21:37.13`	`Naruto_desu`	`hi all, is bzflag 2 working for you?`
`21:37.14`	`*** join/#bzflag S1gn (~ngis@bzq-82-81-170-233.red.bezeqint.net)`
`21:37.27`	`KnottyMan`	`lurk for a bit and you will understand`
`21:37.31`	`Chestal`	`xxxl: hmm, indeed`
`21:37.46`	`TimRiker`	`http://rikers.org/db/bzfls.php there's another.`
`21:37.47`	`JeffM2501`	`Tim or chestal should set a welcome message`
`21:38.00`	`JeffM2501`	`oo a new one`
`21:38.01`	`KnottyMan`	`(the list server is having issues as stated in the topic)`
`21:38.03`	`JeffM2501`	`mine is old`
`21:38.21`	`ruskie`	`well get's kinda broing if nobody else comes to play...`
`21:38.24`	`JeffM2501`	`I prefer the term "classic"`
`21:38.31`	`bryjen`	`bzflag.bz is still running a listserv too (empty of course, as no servers are using it either)`
`21:38.54`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah but mine was a honneypot for knightmare IPs :)`
`21:39.52`	`tdfc`	`omg that was u!`
`21:40.11`	`JeffM2501`	`gotta love the interent`
`21:40.14`	`Chestal`	`xxxl: ah, I forgot, I moved it to port 5155 today`
`21:40.28`	`odie`	`:-)`
`21:40.56`	`xxxl`	`k`
`21:41.31`	`tdfc`	`hacking is evil`
`21:41.47`	`JeffM2501`	`you seem very woried about hacking tdfc?`
`21:41.54`	`TimRiker`	`cracking is evil. hacking is elegant`
`21:41.54`	`JeffM2501`	`guilty concience?`
`21:42.13`	`bryjen`	`TimRiker forgot to say the list server is down too`
`21:42.15`	`JeffM2501`	`umm TimRiker isn't the definition of a "hack" mean uneligant?`
`21:42.29`	`purple_cow`	`JeffM2501: no, that's "dirty hack"`
`21:42.38`	`bryjen`	`~jargon hack`
`21:42.42`	`ibot`	`well, jargon hack is 1. n. Originally, a quick job that produces what is needed, but not well. 2. n. An incredibly good, and perhaps very time-consuming, piece of work that produces exactly what is needed. 3. vt. To bear emotionally or physically. "I can't hack this heat!" 4. vt. To work on something (typically a program). In an immediate sense "What are you ...`
`21:42.43`	`JeffM2501`	`guu dict hack`
`21:42.44`	`guu`	`JeffM2501: web1913, jargon, foldoc, and wn responded: web1913: Hack \Hack\, n. (Football) A kick on the shins, or a cut from a kick; web1913: Hack \Hack\, v. t. (Football) To kick the shins of (an opposing payer); web1913: Hack \Hack\, v. i. To cough faintly and frequently, or in a short, broken manner; as, a hacking cough; web1913: Hack \Hack\, v. t. 1. To use as a hack; to let out for (18 more messages)`
`21:42.45`	`Grumbler`	`no thats a kluge`
`21:42.49`	`JeffM2501`	`and guu wins by a nose`
`21:43.17`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: depends on the hack. ;-)`
`21:43.27`	`bryjen`	`neither definition is quite what we were looking for`
`21:43.32`	`Grumbler`	`~jargon kluge`
`21:43.34`	`ibot`	from memory, jargon kluge is /klooj/ [from the German `klug', clever] 1. n. A Rube Goldberg (or Heath Robinson) device, whether in hardware or software. (A long-ago `Datamation' article by Jackson Granholme said "An ill-assorted collection of poorly matching parts, forming a distressing whole.") 2. n. A clever programming trick intended to solve a particular nasty ...
`21:43.35`	`cods`	`~jargon hacker`
`21:43.37`	`ibot`	`it has been said that jargon hacker is [originally, someone who makes furniture with an axe] n. 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. 2. One who programs enthusiastically (even obsessively) or who enjoys programming rather ...`
`21:43.45`	`*** part/#bzflag KnottyMan (~cbond@4.27.10.160)`
`21:43.47`	`*** join/#bzflag KnottyMan (~cbond@4.27.10.160)`
`21:43.51`	`bryjen`	`Never disagree with a purple_cow ;)`
`21:44.03`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah he might go off like scanline did that one day`
`21:44.18`	`Grumbler`	`hmm, now thats not the way i have used kluge, it must be that jargon was written by a software dude`
`21:44.45`	`*** join/#bzflag tapo (~tapo@p50928548.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`21:45.13`	`tdfc`	`cods: hackers hack.`
`21:45.37`	`bryjen`	`yes, and neither of those are bad`
`21:45.39`	`poxy`	`crackers crack`
`21:45.43`	`*** part/#bzflag tapo (~tapo@p50928548.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`21:45.49`	`tdfc`	`cheaters cheat :)`
`21:45.55`	`bryjen`	`crackers break (into) things`
`21:45.57`	`cods`	`tanks fly`
`21:46.02`	`*** join/#bzflag benj (~benj@ATuileries-151-1-43-178.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`21:46.04`	`benj`	`hi there`
`21:46.09`	`tdfc`	`hi benj`
`21:46.12`	`poxy`	`wow.. i finally finished compiling bzflag`
`21:46.16`	`poxy`	`benj: dont ask.. type /topic and read it all`
`21:46.28`	`KnottyMan`	`heh`
`21:46.34`	`poxy`	`bzfs: ELF 64-bit MSB executable, SPARC V9, version 1 (FreeBSD), for FreeBSD 5.3.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped`
`21:46.38`	`*** part/#bzflag Privia (~Privia@h000d93444438.ne.client2.attbi.com)`
`21:46.43`	`newbie_dont`	`hey i cant make 'cvs up' since 1 hour`
`21:46.50`	`newbie_dont`	`cvs update: [21:46:45] waiting for brlcad's lock in /cvsroot/bzflag/bzflag/src/ogl`
`21:46.53`	`poxy`	`newbie_dont: sourceforge sucks...`
`21:46.58`	`newbie_dont`	`true true`
`21:47.06`	`*** part/#bzflag tdfc (tdfc@sverige.freeshell.org)`
`21:47.11`	`Grumbler`	`hackers is a term that, due to the political nature of things, and the rebelliousness of youth, has been changed over the years to a term for someone who knows more about the ins and outs of things, however, that does not imply by title that they are not dirty`
`21:47.11`	`poxy`	`i heard some parts of it wwere down before by somebody else trying to do ssh to it`
`21:47.26`	`poxy`	`crackers immediately imply dirty`
`21:47.42`	`poxy`	`did the default port change for bzflag 2?`
`21:47.49`	`Grumbler`	`although in the 70s is was a racial slur to imply white`
`21:47.51`	`bryjen`	`nope 5154`
`21:48.00`	`poxy`	`oh, i just dont have a server running on a default port`
`21:48.29`	`JeffM2501`	`Grumbler, your thinking of "crakka"`
`21:48.37`	`poxy`	`haha`
`21:48.38`	`ruskie`	`TimRiker, motd hacked in seems to work...`
`21:48.46`	`TimRiker`	`ruskie: cool.`
`21:48.53`	`poxy`	`im about to start up pieinthesky-2`
`21:48.56`	`JeffM2501`	`well motd should work, it's on a difrent server`
`21:49.26`	`Chestal`	`maybe the motd should explicitly mention the server list, too?`
`21:49.35`	`david_v`	`http://fortix.bzflag.org/list.php should now work although has some cosmetic issues due to missing list servers`
`21:49.42`	`poxy`	`i wonder if I should share my groupdb and userdb and passdb files between my 1.10 and 2 servers`
`21:50.23`	`TimRiker`	`Chestal: does now. and to clear your password.`
`21:51.17`	`poxy`	`TimRiker: A yea or nay about sharing the userdb/passdb files between 1.x and 2.x servers?`
`21:51.30`	`TimRiker`	`poxy: nay`
`21:51.41`	`TimRiker`	`poxy: well, not without edits...`
`21:51.43`	`poxy`	`I share it between 1.x servers... would you yea or nay that?`
`21:51.49`	`Chestal`	`does LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT work with ATI`
`21:51.56`	`*** join/#bzflag legolas_away (~who@69.106.188.199)`
`21:51.59`	`legolas_away`	`hi guys`
`21:52.01`	`poxy`	`shouldnt indirect work with any video card?`
`21:52.04`	`poxy`	`legolas_away: before you ask, read the topic`
`21:52.13`	`TimRiker`	`DEFAULT<>EVERYONE and REGISTER<>VERIFIED and ADMIN<>LOCAL.ADMIN`
`21:52.15`	`bryjen`	`poxy: the builtin groupnames changed default->everyone, registered->verified`
`21:52.15`	`Chestal`	`poxy: it's en environemtn variable to force software rendering`
`21:52.15`	`legolas_away`	`ask what`
`21:52.22`	`JeffM2501`	`anything`
`21:52.25`	`poxy`	`TimRiker: dont you mean !=?`
`21:52.25`	`legolas_away`	`oh that lol i new that`
`21:52.25`	`Chestal`	`AFAIK it doesn't work with nvidia`
`21:52.32`	`TimRiker`	`poxy: if you enter all those groups, then shareing tween 1.11 and 2.0 should work.`
`21:52.44`	`Maligor`	`Chestal: if it uses mesa, yes`
`21:52.53`	`poxy`	`I see... Ill have to ponder this`
`21:52.56`	`legolas_away`	`so do you know the problem?`
`21:53.05`	`TimRiker`	`if someone defines a global group that colides with your local group(s) then you may be giving out unexpected permissions.`
`21:53.15`	`poxy`	`ill just start out anew`
`21:53.16`	`JeffM2501`	`so you didn't read the topic then? legolas_away?`
`21:53.17`	`TimRiker`	`poxy: yeah. != <> whatever.`
`21:53.21`	`legolas_away`	`<PROTECTED>`
`21:53.31`	`poxy`	`TimRiker: <> gives me bad flashbacks from a BASIC(A) era`
`21:53.36`	`TimRiker`	`heh`
`21:53.47`	`legolas_away`	`how do you do that?`
`21:53.50`	`JeffM2501`	`then why ask, the why question when it says it there?`
`21:54.08`	`legolas_away`	`it doesn sya what i asked`
`21:54.20`	`david_v`	`TimRiker: in case it helps, http://fortix.bzflag.org/list.php will give a list of servers. it won't magically add new stuff without list servers though, is it http://sasami.bakadigital.com/db that's going to be used?`
`21:54.34`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah he has a number of bad names, many of them had to be removbd`
`21:54.44`	`legolas_away`	`yes thanks jeff`
`21:54.47`	`*** join/#bzflag tdfc (tdfc@sverige.freeshell.org)`
`21:54.49`	`TimRiker`	`david_v: no. main server should be back soon.`
`21:55.02`	`JeffM2501`	`david_v, I was just screwing with they guy`
`21:55.10`	`poxy`	`hs the max shot limit changed from 10?`
`21:55.16`	`david_v`	`heh i'm not really reading here :)`
`21:55.24`	`poxy`	`s/max/default\ max/`
`21:55.25`	`legolas_away`	`how do you transfer to a 800amp?`
`21:55.25`	`david_v`	`oki then`
`21:55.48`	`poxy`	`legolas_away: 800 ampere... an ampere is 6 million million million electrons flowing over a certain point on a wire`
`21:55.55`	`legolas_away`	`ok`
`21:56.05`	`*** topic/#bzflag by TimRiker -> http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz \|\| Thank you, RPG! - http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=26845#26845 \|\| BZFlag 2.0.0 is Released! - Go to http://sf.net/projects/bzflag http://bzflag.org/wiki/Download \|\| list server (my.bzflag.org) may be down, email/fax/im Nidhoggr an 800amp transfer switch to fix it. see h`
`21:56.07`	`*** join/#bzflag RP1 (~RPG@c-24-15-87-171.client.comcast.net)`
`21:56.07`	`poxy`	`or is it million million... im not sure.. and i think there's a specific ohm value in the equation`
`21:56.19`	`JeffM2501`	`TimRiker, too long`
`21:56.24`	`legolas_away`	`hehe`
`21:56.26`	`JeffM2501`	`TimRiker, use a welcome message`
`21:56.32`	`JeffM2501`	`just /msg chanserv help`
`21:56.34`	`bryjen`	`I see h`
`21:56.35`	`S1gn`	`see what? ;)`
`21:56.49`	`*** topic/#bzflag by TimRiker -> http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz \|\| Thank you, RPG! - http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=26845#26845 \|\| BZFlag 2.0.0 is Released! - Go to http://sf.net/projects/bzflag http://bzflag.org/wiki/Download \|\| list server (my.bzflag.org) may be down, try http://fortix.bzflag.org/list.php`
`21:57.37`	`RP1`	`why does it tell us to draw from the fortix server? doesn't fortix draw from the down server?`
`21:57.54`	`poxy`	`yep, but at least you can see thelast update, rp1`
`21:58.08`	`RP1`	`um... not really`
`21:58.08`	`legolas_away`	`that doesnt work for me`
`21:58.15`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: set.`
`21:58.19`	`bryjen`	`that's not a list url for bzflag, just a web page for you to go look at`
`21:58.20`	`JeffM2501`	`huzzah!`
`21:58.22`	`poxy`	`TimRiker: and forget`
`21:58.38`	`TimRiker`	`RP1: yes, but it has a cached list.`
`21:58.47`	`RP1`	`not that i'm seeing`
`21:59.03`	`JeffM2501`	`this must be what being a kindergarden teacher is like.`
`21:59.19`	`poxy`	`JeffM2501: are you sure? young kids are pliable, and listen`
`21:59.44`	`JeffM2501`	`poxy, no your just old and bitter :)`
`21:59.53`	`bryjen`	`at least kindergardeners have an excuse for not reading ;)`
`21:59.53`	`poxy`	`compared to a young child ;P`
`22:00.05`	`JeffM2501`	`and kids never listen`
`22:00.20`	`JeffM2501`	`you don't have kids do you poxy?`
`22:00.33`	`poxy`	`I know.. I had a 'mistake' brother .. so i've seen, from when I was 12, the progression of a child`
`22:00.47`	`poxy`	`s/had/have/g`
`22:01.00`	`JeffM2501`	`a brother is difrent from your own kid :)`
`22:01.21`	`poxy`	`Not when you're forced to take care of said brother :P`
`22:01.29`	`poxy`	`err, im wrong`
`22:01.29`	`*** part/#bzflag KnottyMan (~cbond@4.27.10.160)`
`22:01.32`	`poxy`	`it's still different...`
`22:01.35`	`*** part/#bzflag RP1 (~RPG@c-24-15-87-171.client.comcast.net)`
`22:01.39`	`*** join/#bzflag Daddo (~LD003@slip-32-102-155-233.pa.us.prserv.net)`
`22:01.45`	`legolas_dead`	`hey daddo\`
`22:01.55`	`poxy`	`JeffM2501 is right`
`22:01.56`	`Daddo`	`hi there`
`22:02.20`	`Daddo`	`logolas: did you kill sourceforge :)`
`22:02.36`	`legolas_dead`	`yes i did`
`22:02.55`	`Daddo`	`good job!`
`22:04.36`	`Daddo`	`hmmm - multiple personality disorder here`
`22:04.40`	`poxy`	`Even a fool is counted as wise when he is silent`
`22:04.47`	`legolas_idiot`	`hehe`
`22:04.52`	`Nidhoggr`	`server powered back on.`
`22:04.54`	`*** join/#bzflag Timpson (~Dave@cdm-66-76-63-29.nacd.cox-internet.com)`
`22:04.56`	`Nidhoggr`	`hopefully it boots okay`
`22:04.57`	`legolas_idiot`	`cool`
`22:05.00`	`bryjen`	`yeay!`
`22:05.08`	`poxy`	`considering linux mounts its filesystems async.. its a tossup`
`22:05.10`	`Nidhoggr`	`all the consoles are in use.`
`22:05.37`	`legolas_idiot`	`it sill is not up for the idiot`
`22:05.45`	`xxxl`	`well you are forcing me to leave the apt`
`22:05.55`	`Timpson`	`my life is drained, please help! just kidding`
`22:05.57`	`poxy`	`I am going to have to port my insult patche to 2`
`22:06.06`	`TimRiker`	`Nidhoggr: it's pinging`
`22:06.06`	`poxy`	`I wonder if I can apply it cleanly`
`22:06.09`	`legolas_idiot`	`how long will it take to start to work?`
`22:06.12`	`Timpson`	`I'm having to spend my breaks with people that smoke`
`22:06.16`	`Nidhoggr`	`yay`
`22:06.47`	`Timpson`	`*cough`
`22:06.50`	`Grumbler`	`http://www.galkire.net/Japan_webalbum/Nara/Isuien%20Garden/images/DSCN0734_edited-1.jpg`
`22:06.53`	`Nidhoggr`	`in with shell`
`22:06.55`	`Grumbler`	`ww`
`22:07.03`	`bryjen`	`ext3. journaled filesystem.`
`22:07.10`	`legolas_idiot`	`how long will it take to start to work?`
`22:07.29`	`TimRiker`	`~bzflist`
`22:07.37`	`legolas_idiot`	`whose fish grumbler?\`
`22:07.37`	`poxy`	`hrm... some hunks succeeded some hunks failed`
`22:07.43`	`legolas_idiot`	`bzflist
`22:07.51`	`legolas_idiot`	`~bzflist`
`22:08.10`	`poxy`	`bryjen: ext2 is lacking... so adding a journal to it doesn't really help too much`
`22:08.18`	`legolas_idiot`	`how do i get it to check for my server/`
`22:08.21`	`TimRiker`	`Nidhoggr: local dns for mbo still down?`
`22:08.36`	`Nidhoggr`	`yes.`
`22:08.41`	`Nidhoggr`	`I have to kick the machine.`
`22:08.48`	`legolas_idiot`	`~QUERY annihiiation.servegame.org`
`22:09.02`	`legolas_idiot`	`what am i doing wrong?`
`22:09.14`	`bryjen`	`~bzfquery annihiiation.servegame.org`
`22:09.14`	`Nidhoggr`	`I'll try to get to it asap.`
`22:09.29`	`theEnemy`	`poxy: ext3 has worked wonders on a machine I had that kept crashing (don't ask why)`
`22:09.36`	`theEnemy`	`it's pretty solid these days`
`22:10.00`	`legolas_idiot`	`~bzfquery annihiliation.servegame.org:5154`
`22:10.07`	`legolas_idiot`	`darn`
`22:10.10`	`poxy`	`theEnemy: softupdates + bgfsck has worked wonders for me too... i think... i havent had my machine crash in ... i dont remember`
`22:10.40`	`poxy`	`Heh, my insults stuff doesn't patch... figure ;)`
`22:11.03`	`legolas_idiot`	`to bad`
`22:11.14`	`poxy`	`that jsut means i'll have to do it manually`
`22:11.24`	`TimRiker`	`only servers listing by IP are getting added in the mean time.`
`22:11.27`	`TimRiker`	`~bzflist`
`22:11.35`	`poxy`	`heh, because the dns is broken?`
`22:11.48`	`poxy`	`funny`
`22:11.57`	`TimRiker`	`yeah. the list server tries to confirm the dns entry and can't so it drops it.`
`22:11.59`	`Timpson`	`Hello Nidhoggr`
`22:12.15`	`TimRiker`	`Timpson: he's busy.`
`22:12.26`	`Timpson`	`ooops sorry`
`22:12.27`	`*** join/#bzflag zongo_ (~zongo@lsn-boi-catv-c114-p158.vtx.ch)`
`22:12.30`	`Timpson`	`:(`
`22:12.37`	`xxxl`	`my son is ecstatic to go outside in the freezing friggin cold`
`22:13.13`	`Daddo`	`get him to shovel the driveway - that will really make him happy`
`22:13.38`	`xxxl`	`no driveway, live in the east village, manhattan`
`22:13.43`	`xxxl`	`, he can shovel the stoop`
`22:14.08`	`Daddo`	`quicker at least`
`22:15.23`	`xxxl`	`haven/t left the apt in over 24 hrs bnow`
`22:15.32`	`Daddo`	`this is worse than a plague of frogs`
`22:16.07`	`poxy`	`heh`
`22:16.09`	`*** join/#bzflag phoukka (~8ca3fe81@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`22:16.14`	`poxy`	`thats hilarious`
`22:16.26`	`Daddo`	`I got here late - anyone know what killed the poor list server?`
`22:16.46`	`JeffM2501`	`electricity`
`22:16.52`	`JeffM2501`	`and the lack of it`
`22:17.03`	`TimRiker`	`Nidhoggr: I added another dns server in resolv.conf for the moment and restarted apache.`
`22:17.04`	`JeffM2501`	`and in answer to your next question`
`22:17.05`	`TimRiker`	`~bzflist`
`22:17.09`	`JeffM2501`	`soon(tm)`
`22:17.16`	`Nidhoggr`	`excellent.`
`22:17.22`	`Nidhoggr`	`nameserver just started pinging.`
`22:17.26`	`JeffM2501`	`aww there is my baby`
`22:17.35`	`*** part/#bzflag phoukka (~8ca3fe81@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`22:17.52`	`TimRiker`	`k. when it's back remove the line in resolv.conf. you should really have multiple entries though, there was only one.`
`22:18.44`	`Daddo`	`So I guess that donation I never (yet) made could go to a UPS?`
`22:19.06`	`*** join/#bzflag user_ (~user@a81-14-165-43.net-htp.de)`
`22:19.18`	`Daddo`	`or more batteries for the ups`
`22:19.28`	`JeffM2501`	`Daddo, the datacenter was doing maint on the UPS`
`22:19.32`	`JeffM2501`	`and "BAD" thing happend`
`22:19.47`	`*** join/#bzflag triclops (~caleb@c211-31-49-112.rivrw7.nsw.optusnet.com.au)`
`22:19.52`	`poxy`	`triclops: its fixed, dont ask`
`22:20.02`	`Daddo`	`that's the problem with doing maintenance - it makes things break`
`22:20.17`	`JeffM2501`	`or blows out breakers`
`22:20.27`	`JeffM2501`	`Nidhoggr has been on it since it happend`
`22:20.41`	`Daddo`	`and we've all been so patient too`
`22:21.00`	`bryjen`	`wow 73 users`
`22:21.05`	`Nidhoggr`	`was UPS maint... they threw switch to go back to commercial power and 800amp circuit breaker failed.`
`22:21.10`	`JeffM2501`	`where patient = like a bunch of kids beating on the candy store dore for their next fix....`
`22:21.20`	`Daddo`	`exactly`
`22:21.44`	`JeffM2501`	`they daystar has probably burned a number of munchkins today.`
`22:22.17`	`*** topic/#bzflag by TimRiker -> http://BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/ \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz \|\| Thank you, RPG! - http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=26845#26845 \|\| BZFlag 2.0.0 is Released! - Go to http://sf.net/projects/bzflag http://bzflag.org/wiki/Download \|\| list server on http://my.bzflag.org/ was down should be back now.`
`22:22.24`	`bryjen`	`!weather 42301`
`22:22.26`	`guu`	`bryjen: The current temperature in Owensboro, Kentucky is 41�F (3:45 PM CST on January 19, 2005). Conditions: Overcast. Pressure: 30.16 in (1021 hPa). Visibility: 10.0 miles (16.1 kilometers). UV: 0 out of 12`
`22:22.42`	`poxy`	`What's this spam warning function ?`
`22:22.42`	`JeffM2501`	`"in unrelated news... the national burn center has reported thousands of kids have reported sunburns from going outside today"`
`22:23.00`	`poxy`	`How does it determine spam? or just a message rate limiter.. and not a specific www.***.tld is disallowed`
`22:23.02`	`JeffM2501`	`bryjen, you don't have the sun?`
`22:23.07`	`JeffM2501`	`guu weather 93021`
`22:23.09`	`guu`	`JeffM2501: The current temperature in Moorpark, California is 39�F (2:21 PM PST on January 19, 2005). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 27%. Dew Point: 39�F. UV: 3 out of 12`
`22:23.14`	`bryjen`	`JeffM2501: not today`
`22:23.18`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not 39`
`22:23.27`	`JeffM2501`	`wtf`
`22:23.35`	`JeffM2501`	`guu weather 93065`
`22:23.36`	`guu`	`JeffM2501: The current temperature in Simi Valley, California is 81�F (1:51 PM PST on January 19, 2005). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 23%. Dew Point: 40�F. Pressure: 30.09 in (1019 hPa). Visibility: 10.0 miles (16.1 kilometers). UV: 3 out of 12`
`22:23.39`	`JeffM2501`	`there we go`
`22:23.47`	`poxy`	`guu weather 10012`
`22:23.49`	`guu`	`poxy: The current temperature in New York, New York is 25�F (4:51 PM EST on January 19, 2005). Conditions: Light Snow Showers. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: 18�F. Pressure: 30.05 in (1018 hPa). Visibility: 2.0 miles (3.2 kilometers). UV: 0 out of 12`
`22:23.59`	`poxy`	`Cool`
`22:24.23`	`poxy`	`I dont see the wind... they need to mention the wind`
`22:24.31`	`bryjen`	`that's a helluva draft across the thermometer there in Moorpark`
`22:24.32`	`poxy`	`Yesterday it was so windy elevator doors weren't closing`
`22:24.49`	`JeffM2501`	`ibot does more detailed weather, but uses wierder notation`
`22:24.58`	`JeffM2501`	`airport codes`
`22:25.14`	`Nidhoggr`	`bringing back my other irc client. brb.`
`22:26.04`	`*** join/#bzflag sgk284 (~stevek@AC85239F.ipt.aol.com)`
`22:26.07`	`sgk284`	`g' day`
`22:26.18`	`*** join/#bzflag Nidhoggr (mandrake@dragon.org)`
`22:26.18`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v Nidhoggr] by ChanServ`
`22:26.24`	`sgk284`	`hey Nidhoggr`
`22:26.30`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o Nidhoggr] by ChanServ`
`22:26.31`	`Nidhoggr`	`hi`
`22:26.59`	`Grumbler`	`so did everybody come back in to answer the phones again`
`22:27.37`	`Nidhoggr`	`fortunately my phone is broken right now.`
`22:27.48`	`Daddo`	`guu weather 19454`
`22:27.51`	`guu`	`Daddo: The current temperature in North Wales, Pennsylvania is 23�F (5:20 PM EST on January 19, 2005). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 21�F. Pressure: 30.01 in (1016 hPa). Visibility: 4.0 miles (6.4 kilometers). UV: 0 out of 12`
`22:28.00`	`bryjen`	`http://www.weather.com/maps/maptype/satelliteusnational/index_large.html quite cloudy this side of the continent`
`22:28.01`	`poxy`	`hrm.. what replaced victim->callSign?`
`22:28.42`	`poxy`	`rather, player->callSign`
`22:28.43`	`sgk284`	`~weather kphl`
`22:29.18`	`Timpson`	`hello sgk284`
`22:29.31`	`sgk284`	`hey Timpson`
`22:30.05`	`*** part/#bzflag Birdie (~birdie@d54C34D0B.access.telenet.be)`
`22:30.55`	`sgk284`	`cd bzflag/2.0`
`22:30.59`	`sgk284`	`ww`
`22:33.02`	`sgk284`	`whats the weather code site?`
`22:33.07`	`sgk284`	`!weather`
`22:33.14`	`sgk284`	`~weather`
`22:33.16`	`creeperz`	`!weather 57350`
`22:33.18`	`guu`	`creeperz: The current temperature in Huron, South Dakota is 36�F (3:55 PM CST on January 19, 2005). Conditions: Mist. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 30�F. Wind: SSE at 10 mph (17 km/h). Pressure: 30.05 in (1018 hPa). Visibility: 5.0 miles (8.0 kilometers). UV: 0 out of 12`
`22:33.23`	`sgk284`	`~weather help`
`22:33.35`	`sgk284`	`there ya go timpson`
`22:33.51`	`Timpson`	`thx`
`22:33.58`	`sgk284`	`sure`
`22:34.35`	`poxy`	`I think you can do all this in private message`
`22:34.54`	`sgk284`	`err how would ibot be reading a pm?`
`22:35.04`	`sgk284`	`nevermind`
`22:35.09`	`sgk284`	`you mean send ibot a pm?`
`22:35.38`	`sgk284`	`if we don't fill up the room with text... then who will? :) someones gotta do it`
`22:35.46`	`sgk284`	`~fishslap poxy`
`22:35.51`	`ibot`	`ACTION slaps poxy up side the head with a wet fish.`
`22:35.52`	`sgk284`	`;)`
`22:36.22`	`ep`	`-weather kokc`
`22:36.43`	`brlcad`	`Nidhoggr: you were right, we should have ;)`
`22:37.56`	`*** join/#bzflag Pizbit_ (~Pizbit@203-79-124-44.adsl.paradise.net.nz)`
`22:38.01`	`Pizbit_`	`Ah!`
`22:38.02`	`bryjen`	`and hiya brlcad`
`22:38.06`	`brlcad`	`howdy`
`22:38.12`	`Nidhoggr`	`hi brlcad`
`22:38.13`	`Pizbit_`	`bzflag doesn't handle ones internet connection dying very well at all`
`22:38.24`	`poxy`	`Pizbit_: none of us have such poor internet connections`
`22:38.28`	`sgk284`	`hey brlcad`
`22:38.31`	`Nidhoggr`	`I'm still doing damage control at work. :(`
`22:38.41`	`Pizbit_`	`poxy: Nor do I, but I do have a POS router.`
`22:38.58`	`poxy`	`I see`
`22:39.02`	`ruskie`	`hmmm either it's something in the bzflag code or something in the dri code or something wrong with my gfx card... but I keep getting droped off all the time... screen freezes or shutsdown...`
`22:39.33`	`ruskie`	`ussualy when I mess with various bzflag display settings...`
`22:39.36`	`Pizbit_`	`Basically bzflag only loads as far as showing the console tabs and nothing else, not even the menu when it can't access the internet.`
`22:39.41`	`sgk284`	`what OS?`
`22:39.51`	`Pizbit_`	`Makes one think it's broken.:)`
`22:40.09`	`JeffM2501`	`Pizbit it will eventualy time out`
`22:40.16`	`bryjen`	`Pizbit_: be very patient. it may come back. i think the fetching of the MoTD has a long timeout`
`22:40.31`	`sgk284`	`yea the motd sometimes takes 30 seconds`
`22:40.31`	`JeffM2501`	`it should be 15 seconds now`
`22:40.39`	`sgk284`	`or so it seems`
`22:40.41`	`JeffM2501`	`you can set the timeout`
`22:40.47`	`JeffM2501`	`set it to 1`
`22:40.47`	`Pizbit_`	`Surely there should be some indication that it's doing somehting though?`
`22:40.49`	`JeffM2501`	`or 0`
`22:40.55`	`JeffM2501`	`no the motd is blocking`
`22:41.03`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a known issue`
`22:41.07`	`JeffM2501`	`patches welcome`
`22:41.10`	`sgk284`	`if the server was threaded itd be different:)`
`22:41.17`	`JeffM2501`	`huh?`
`22:41.21`	`Pizbit_`	`JeffM2501: Hrm, is it in python?! :)`
`22:41.22`	`JeffM2501`	`has nothing to do with the server`
`22:41.27`	`JeffM2501`	`nope C++`
`22:41.45`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (~foo@adsl-67-123-173-96.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)`
`22:41.45`	`Pizbit_`	`SOL then :)`
`22:42.05`	`Grumbler`	`yep the whole problem is that the server was not written in forth......wouldnt have any issues then.......no need for power.........hell, it generates it`
`22:42.06`	`sgk284`	`err i meant client*`
`22:42.11`	`sgk284`	`heh`
`22:42.15`	`JeffM2501`	`sgk284, curl supports a progress callback that could be put in that could show progress and show a cancel button`
`22:42.21`	`sgk284`	`oh okay`
`22:42.22`	`JeffM2501`	`threading is just one way to handle it`
`22:42.34`	`JeffM2501`	`no mater what the client has to change it to a "job" type API`
`22:42.42`	`JeffM2501`	`and that's a sizeable change`
`22:43.06`	`JeffM2501`	`it all goes to C++ anyway:)`
`22:43.10`	`sgk284`	`hehe`
`22:43.20`	`cods`	`there is no "c++ sockets"`
`22:43.31`	`cods`	`just c socket that map more or directly to python socket module.`
`22:43.34`	`Pizbit_`	`JeffM2501: I was just thinking of some text on the screen saying 'retrieving motd' 'time out in xx seconds' with xx decreasing until it, uh, timeouts:)`
`22:43.37`	`cods`	`+less`
`22:43.48`	`JeffM2501`	`Pizbit_, yes that can be done, it just currently is`
`22:43.50`	`JeffM2501`	`patches welcome`
`22:44.05`	`JeffM2501`	`C++ contains C`
`22:44.13`	`JeffM2501`	`so a C socket is a C++ socket :)`
`22:44.31`	`JeffM2501`	`I coudl say there is no such thing as C`
`22:44.32`	`Maligor`	`the server connection system could use with a sensible timeout aswell`
`22:44.36`	`bryjen`	`sooouperset`
`22:44.38`	`sgk284`	`lol`
`22:44.41`	`JeffM2501`	`just gimped C++ compliers :)`
`22:44.44`	`Pizbit_`	`Well, considering that bzflag doesn't even compile on my system and I know neither C/C++ I think I'll give it a pass :P`
`22:45.00`	`JeffM2501`	`Pizbit_, there are some very good books ;)`
`22:45.05`	`Maligor`	`it seems to freeze the whole client if something goes wrong`
`22:45.11`	`ruskie`	`also I'm guessing some weird stuff was added in the game engine since my gfx seems to lock a lot... on a r9250...`
`22:45.25`	`bryjen`	`the server connection has progress and abort now`
`22:45.34`	`JeffM2501`	`bzflag as an engine?`
`22:45.42`	`sgk284`	`heh`
`22:45.49`	`*** join/#bzflag stevek_ (~stevek@AC85239F.ipt.aol.com)`
`22:46.58`	`scanline`	`JeffM2501: C++ isn't technically a superset of C, it's just usually compatible`
`22:47.08`	`JeffM2501`	`true`
`22:47.15`	`JeffM2501`	`efectivly a superset :)`
`22:47.24`	`theEnemy`	`poxy: since you're here, what happened to that server ofyours where everything was, er, faster. 50 shot?`
`22:47.46`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@dialup-4.158.219.136.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net)`
`22:48.12`	`wegstar`	`is thumper around ?`
`22:49.15`	`poxy`	`50 shot.. did it get really slow with a lot of people, and did it say it ran on a 50MHz sparcstation?`
`22:50.18`	`poxy`	`I'm making some bzflag 2.0 mods... i can get back to some silly stuff later`
`22:50.45`	`Thumper_`	`wegstar: what's up?`
`22:50.52`	`wegstar`	`hi..`
`22:51.02`	`wegstar`	`um how do you make those angled shots.?`
`22:51.14`	`Thumper_`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:51.19`	`wegstar`	`thx`
`22:54.33`	`poxy`	`Hrm... what did string_util::format become?`
`22:58.25`	`poxy`	`JeffM2501: Are you alive?`
`22:58.34`	`JeffM2501`	`techincaly I'm undead`
`22:58.51`	`JeffM2501`	`it's text_utils now`
`22:58.53`	`JeffM2501`	`not string utils`
`22:58.57`	`JeffM2501`	`cus it does more then strings`
`22:59.01`	`poxy`	`so, just s/string/text/ and that's it?`
`22:59.20`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe a capital T in there somehwere`
`22:59.20`	`JeffM2501`	`check`
`22:59.21`	`JeffM2501`	`the file is textutils`
`22:59.54`	`poxy`	`cool...thanks JeffM2501`
`23:00.57`	`*** join/#bzflag amathis (~amathis@cpe-024-165-189-009.midsouth.rr.com)`
`23:02.25`	`poxy`	`It's s/string_utils::/TextUtils::/`
`23:03.13`	`sgk284`	`~bzfquery bzflag.secretplace.us`
`23:03.32`	`poxy`	`~bzfquery 66.9.27.147`
`23:03.35`	`sgk284`	`~bzfquery bzflag.secretplace.us:5255`
`23:03.46`	`sgk284`	`ping nidhoggr`
`23:03.47`	`sgk284`	`:)`
`23:03.55`	`Nidhoggr`	`it's still down. let me start it. I'm totally swamped.`
`23:04.01`	`sgk284`	`oh dont worry about it`
`23:04.02`	`poxy`	`~bzfquery 66.9.27.147:5154`
`23:04.06`	`poxy`	`~bzfquery 66.9.27.147:5000`
`23:04.06`	`sgk284`	`wasnt sure if you knew or not`
`23:04.11`	`poxy`	`Sorry, i'll stop that`
`23:04.53`	`Nidhoggr`	`started`
`23:05.05`	`sgk284`	`~nidhoggr++`
`23:05.08`	`sgk284`	`~karma Nidhoggr`
`23:05.08`	`ibot`	`nidhoggr has karma of 43`
`23:05.12`	`sgk284`	`~karma sgk284`
`23:05.12`	`ibot`	`sgk284 has karma of 18`
`23:05.16`	`Nidhoggr`	`:)`
`23:05.19`	`sgk284`	`:)`
`23:05.21`	`Nidhoggr`	`~sgk284++`
`23:05.27`	`sgk284`	`awesome:)`
`23:05.35`	`sgk284`	`your still twice as great as me ;)`
`23:05.43`	`Nidhoggr`	`I don't think I'm leaving work on time tonight. :/`
`23:05.48`	`sgk284`	`thats no fun`
`23:06.21`	`poxy`	`~karma poxy`
`23:06.21`	`ibot`	`poxy has karma of 2`
`23:06.46`	`JeffM2501`	`moving up in the world it seems`
`23:07.08`	`poxy`	`really funny JeffM2501`
`23:07.36`	`JeffM2501`	`ibot karma JeffM2501`
`23:07.36`	`ibot`	`jeffm2501 has karma of 6`
`23:07.43`	`JeffM2501`	`see I'm not very high ether`
`23:07.44`	`JeffM2501`	`I suck`
`23:07.49`	`poxy`	`what was your old name?`
`23:07.58`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't remember`
`23:08.04`	`poxy`	`dont front`
`23:08.21`	`JeffM2501`	`it died :)`
`23:08.33`	`JeffM2501`	`it's also right in front of you :)`
`23:08.52`	`poxy`	`oh, patrol`
`23:08.54`	`JeffM2501`	`allways underneath, hiding.. lurking.`
`23:09.17`	`wegstar`	`hehe`
`23:09.29`	`wegstar`	`patlabor221 was it?`
`23:09.33`	`poxy`	`that's redundant... heh... ignites on fire`
`23:09.35`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a nuke plant`
`23:12.02`	`poxy`	`Isn't -g and -O2 just a waste of cpu time? Why put debugging symbols if you're going to optimize parts of your code away...`
`23:15.57`	`poxy`	`It's like installing a turbocharger on your car, and then restricting intake...`
`23:18.13`	`poxy`	`Speaking of restricted intakes, reducing the amount of port space in the intake (J&B epoxy welding) will cause a higher velocity of fuel flow into the cylinder when the piston is going back up for the ignition...`
`23:23.10`	`*** join/#bzflag newbie__dont (~janko@dlt14.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)`
`23:27.06`	`Elspuddy`	`is there an option so i can up the player count with an admin command ?`
`23:27.25`	`wegstar`	`i don't think so..`
`23:27.35`	`wegstar`	`actually no`
`23:28.51`	`poxy`	`hrm... why is something created from PlayerInfo not let me access callSign?`
`23:29.00`	`poxy`	`says its private data...worked in 1.10`
`23:30.39`	`poxy`	`ok, thanks poxy`
`23:31.06`	`DTRemenak`	`poxy: just do it the right way and use ->getCallSign(). don't try to access private data, that's what the methods are there for.`
`23:31.16`	`poxy`	`Well, there wasnt a method before...`
`23:31.26`	`trepan`	`things change, imagine that`
`23:31.27`	`poxy`	`And that's what im doing :)`
`23:31.32`	`poxy`	`trepan: nO! i cant...`
`23:33.01`	`poxy`	`I'm sorry... I apologize for my actions. Thank you for the code.`
`23:37.52`	`TimRiker`	`poxy: there is a global stuct/class someplace that has callsign password and token in it. I forget the name.`
`23:43.41`	`purple_cow`	`brlcad: looks like printing will be cheaper than i thought - there's a photo lab here that can do archival prints for ~$20 for the size we want`
`23:45.18`	`*** join/#bzflag ep (~ep@ip68-97-124-161.ok.ok.cox.net)`
`23:45.49`	`*** join/#bzflag lordbrocktree (~43a41b63@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`23:45.56`	`lordbrocktree`	`can someone help me with linux`
`23:47.08`	`wegstar`	`lord brocktree.. that's sounds like it is from a book :)`
`23:49.11`	`ep`	`version 2.0 for the client? I'm running 1.10.6, what happened?`
`23:54.36`	`*** join/#bzflag Naruto_desu (cc@h120n1fls309o1101.telia.com)`
`23:55.25`	`Naruto_desu`	`I can't use the keyboard arrows in bz, even tho I have keyboard as in the input config..`
`23:56.05`	`*** join/#bzflag Privia (~Privia@h000d93444438.ne.client2.attbi.com)`
`23:56.50`	`brlcad`	`purple_cow: awesome`
`23:58.29`	`purple_cow`	`brlcad: of course, that's all dependent on scanline not getting distracted with cia in the next hour :P`

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