| 00:15.25 | *** join/#bzflag wegstar (~foo@adsl-67-121-191-157.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 00:25.23 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@2002:45a6:876a:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 00:32.00 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@dialup-4.254.86.217.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 00:35.48 | retro | ~seen bryjen |
| 00:35.50 | ibot | bryjen is currently on #opencombat (10m 26s) #bzflag (10m 26s) |
| 00:38.17 | *** join/#bzflag ewok111 (~d08bc241@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 00:39.03 | ewok111 | Hello?\ |
| 00:39.30 | bryjen | Hi |
| 00:40.07 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-058-001-210.arcor-ip.net) |
| 00:40.24 | ewok111 | Why is it that when I "Search for Servers" I get about 70 'hits' , but I can only 'get on' one (viper)? |
| 00:42.18 | bryjen | you should be able to use the up/down arrows to select any of those listed |
| 00:43.57 | ewok111 | bryjen, yes I do that, and try logging on to each of them, but all of them 'hang', except for viper, and then I have to ctrl-alt-f1 login killall -9 bzflag ctrl-alt-f7 and start over |
| 00:46.58 | bryjen | ack. that's no fun :( |
| 00:47.28 | ewok111 | is that just that I am too far from all of those servers to be able to play? |
| 00:48.08 | bryjen | i wouldn't think so. |
| 00:48.31 | ewok111 | could it have to do with the ports? firewall? |
| 00:49.25 | bryjen | does viper use the default port? (5154) |
| 00:49.33 | ewok111 | yes |
| 00:50.21 | bryjen | if that was it, i'd expect others using the default would work too |
| 00:51.18 | ewok111 | most of the others don't use the default |
| 00:52.56 | blast007 | 23 servers use 5154 |
| 00:53.37 | blast007 | so try a couple of them and see if they work |
| 00:54.00 | bryjen | viper.pimpi.org has servers running or 5158 and 5159... |
| 00:54.13 | bryjen | s/ or / on / |
| 00:54.42 | ewok111 | bryjen: really ? I guess I could be wrong about the ports |
| 00:54.59 | blast007 | and 5159 is 1.10 |
| 00:55.32 | ewok111 | blast007: yes I tried upgrading to v2.0, but could only find two servers that I could log onto, and the performance was really slow |
| 00:55.43 | blast007 | what video card? |
| 00:55.46 | blast007 | GF4? |
| 00:55.50 | ewok111 | So I uninstalled and went back to v1.10 |
| 00:56.06 | ewok111 | nvidia TNT-2 i believe |
| 00:56.14 | blast007 | hmm, k |
| 00:56.38 | wegstar | ewok111: viper's server of "The Two Castles" is on port 5158 |
| 00:56.46 | ewok111 | this card was a headache to get work with fc-3 (at least with 3-d Opengl drivers) |
| 00:56.55 | blast007 | might be affected too...there were slow downs when using Linux+GF4 with smoothing on |
| 00:57.00 | wegstar | argh ..nvm |
| 00:57.22 | ewok111 | wegstar: yes, The Two Castles is what I have become addicted to |
| 00:57.41 | wegstar | me too, in the old days... :) |
| 00:58.44 | ewok111 | I am discerning from the interest in my problem expressed by this group but the lack of any solutions that I may be just SOL. |
| 01:00.31 | wegstar | hm... bzfs I compiled a few days ago never needed that curl stuff... |
| 01:00.33 | blast007 | so it freezes up when you try to join? how far does it get? should say like Trying... or Downloading Map |
| 01:00.44 | wegstar | why does it now? |
| 01:02.05 | ewok111 | blast007: it says "Trying..." and then the key board is unresponsive except to switch to a virtual terminal |
| 01:02.39 | bryjen | the server used to only use curl for fetching the master ban list. i donno if that's changed |
| 01:03.12 | wegstar | ah... |
| 01:05.00 | bryjen | the client fetched the Message of The Day with it. trepan's been hooking up getting textures from remote sources |
| 01:06.01 | wegstar | yeah... been noticing that :) |
| 01:06.16 | trepan | wegstar: you dev-cpp ? |
| 01:06.24 | wegstar | yes |
| 01:06.32 | trepan | feb15/CVS: make libCURL required (lan56) |
| 01:07.24 | wegstar | ah... ok |
| 01:07.44 | trepan | i may have been complaining about inconsistent client feature sets... |
| 01:16.12 | *** join/#bzflag uidzero (~uidzero@server.bsdhacker.org) |
| 01:16.39 | uidzero | Any reason as to why my sound doesn't work after it did right after the first install? |
| 01:17.41 | blast007 | uidzero: what operating system? :) |
| 01:17.48 | uidzero | Ohh sorry. :) |
| 01:18.00 | blast007 | hehe ;) |
| 01:18.16 | uidzero | One second... phone... |
| 01:18.19 | uidzero | Ok |
| 01:18.20 | blast007 | k |
| 01:18.33 | uidzero | FreeBSD bsd.bsdhacker.org 5.3-RELEASE-p2 FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE-p2 #11: |
| 01:19.08 | uidzero | My xmms, Gaim, and everything has sound.. (even other games) just bzflag doesn't. |
| 01:19.22 | Pizbit | Running a sound server? |
| 01:19.24 | uidzero | I restarted X, nothing. |
| 01:20.00 | bryjen | gnome esd or kde artsd ? |
| 01:20.05 | uidzero | Sound Blaster Live card.. |
| 01:20.13 | uidzero | Gaim uses ESD.... |
| 01:20.18 | uidzero | I'm in iceWM. |
| 01:20.56 | Pizbit | KIll off esd and run bzflag again |
| 01:21.13 | Pizbit | Or use sdl/esd |
| 01:21.33 | uidzero | "ps auxgwww | grep esd |
| 01:21.39 | uidzero | shows nothing. |
| 01:22.11 | bryjen | bzflag with SDL will use esd or artsd, but it can cause a noticable delay in the sounds |
| 01:22.57 | uidzero | artsd isn't running eiher. |
| 01:23.02 | uidzero | either |
| 01:23.47 | DTRemenak | ~trepan++ |
| 01:23.57 | DTRemenak | ~trepan++ |
| 01:24.35 | uidzero | Uhm, any other ideas? |
| 01:24.41 | bryjen | does bzflag say anything about what sound device its using in the message panel right when it starts up? |
| 01:24.43 | uidzero | I'm not much of an X man.... |
| 01:25.23 | uidzero | "Audio driver: audio not available". |
| 01:25.28 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 01:25.36 | DTRemenak | that's not a good sign :) |
| 01:25.54 | uidzero | Yeah, for bzflag, everything else uses sound with no problem. |
| 01:26.11 | trepan | DTRemenak: ? |
| 01:26.51 | DTRemenak | trepan, I was just writing up a map to prove that our PNG support was complete and correct and I realized that I was using about a dozen features you wrote |
| 01:27.01 | DTRemenak | so you deserved karma :) |
| 01:27.12 | DTRemenak | dtremenak.bakadigital.com:5000 if you're interested |
| 01:27.15 | trepan | ah shucks, thx :) |
| 01:27.26 | DTRemenak | that's the entire non-interlaced png test suite |
| 01:27.47 | trepan | hehe, knew that that was what i was going to see :) |
| 01:27.55 | uidzero | Uhm, |
| 01:28.01 | brlcad | uidzero: you can set SDL_VIDEODRIVER to dsp, dma, esd or artsc to request a specific driver |
| 01:28.12 | bryjen | VIDEO? |
| 01:28.18 | brlcad | er, :) |
| 01:28.24 | brlcad | SDL_AUDIODRIVER |
| 01:28.31 | bryjen | on BSD? |
| 01:28.40 | uidzero | How so? |
| 01:28.50 | uidzero | brlcad: I'm on BSD. |
| 01:28.52 | uidzero | err |
| 01:28.55 | uidzero | bryjen: |
| 01:29.01 | brlcad | hrm.. what's your audio device? |
| 01:29.12 | brlcad | you can still set it to whichever device it is |
| 01:29.32 | uidzero | brlcad: Honestly, not sure. :) |
| 01:29.42 | brlcad | there's a config file somewhere that should have been configured with the device type, but if it's not working, that's likely the cause |
| 01:30.30 | brlcad | try export SDL_AUDIODRIVER="openbsd" |
| 01:30.30 | uidzero | brlcad: Besides in bxflag, it works great everywhere else asnd the first time I ran it, it worked great. |
| 01:31.02 | uidzero | csh shell |
| 01:31.18 | uidzero | export: Command not found. |
| 01:31.28 | brlcad | setenv SDL_AUDIODRIVER "openbsd" |
| 01:31.30 | brlcad | which bsd is it? |
| 01:31.40 | uidzero | FreeBSD 5.3. |
| 01:31.48 | brlcad | probably oss then |
| 01:32.04 | brlcad | try that.. then try: setenv SDL_AUDIODRIVER "dsp" |
| 01:32.12 | brlcad | if it doesn't work |
| 01:32.47 | uidzero | nope :| |
| 01:32.56 | brlcad | tried the second? |
| 01:33.36 | uidzero | It worked in the console, just no sound still. |
| 01:33.49 | brlcad | i mean, did you try "dsp" too? |
| 01:34.12 | uidzero | Ohh, dsp I'll try oss |
| 01:34.51 | uidzero | Still no sound. |
| 01:35.11 | uidzero | Couldn't open audio: No available audio device |
| 01:35.16 | uidzero | In the terminal. |
| 01:35.29 | uidzero | bzflag in free(): warning: junk pointer, too high to make sense |
| 01:35.31 | uidzero | That too. :) |
| 01:35.49 | brlcad | "audio", "esd", "artsc", "dma" are other possibilities |
| 01:37.02 | uidzero | nothing., |
| 01:37.11 | uidzero | I'll try reinstalling. |
| 01:37.23 | brlcad | uidzero: try deleting your config first |
| 01:37.31 | brlcad | rm -rf ~/.bzf |
| 01:37.39 | brlcad | unset SDL_AUDIODRIVER |
| 01:38.02 | uidzero | Ok |
| 01:38.03 | uidzero | brb |
| 01:38.34 | brlcad | might be unsetenv SDL_AUDIODRIVER |
| 01:38.39 | brlcad | not a csher myself |
| 01:38.49 | uidzero | That worked, thanks... :) |
| 01:38.50 | uidzero | :) |
| 01:39.00 | uidzero | Try again though,,, it used dma... |
| 01:40.05 | uidzero | Kinda laggyu though. |
| 01:40.29 | DTRemenak | brlcad, simultaneously? |
| 01:40.50 | brlcad | unknown.. we just noticed that two are down a day or two ago |
| 01:40.53 | blast007 | brlcad: yikes :/ |
| 01:41.04 | brlcad | the array is still up and running |
| 01:41.31 | Pizbit | brlcad: Data loss yet? |
| 01:41.31 | brlcad | fortunately they were on separate slices |
| 01:41.31 | DTRemenak | heh. that's why you're supposed to notice when one is down... :) |
| 01:41.31 | brlcad | 2 out of 10 |
| 01:41.55 | brlcad | blessed raid 5 |
| 01:42.01 | uidzero | brlcad: Uh ohh. |
| 01:42.01 | brlcad | it's the only reason it's still alive |
| 01:42.10 | Pizbit | hehe |
| 01:42.24 | brlcad | but if one more fails, it'll go down |
| 01:42.38 | uidzero | My lil server is running Raid5, thankfully, no dead drives yet... (no spares) |
| 01:42.55 | uidzero | (Only 4 drives. :|) |
| 01:42.56 | DTRemenak | only time I had a raid5 drive fail, I wiped the array because I didn't have an extra drive and the dang beeping was driving me bonkers |
| 01:43.05 | Pizbit | brlcad: Trying to decide whether to back it all up before swapping in replacements, or just swapping in replacements eh? |
| 01:43.52 | uidzero | Thanks guys, mind if I idle here tonight? :) |
| 01:43.55 | brlcad | Pizbit: there are multiple backups of everything, so that's not so much a worry -- it's more a matter of preventing downtime |
| 01:44.01 | Pizbit | ahh |
| 01:44.10 | Pizbit | Rebuilding would take a while eh? |
| 01:44.13 | DTRemenak | I wasn't in a very downtime-sensitive environment :) |
| 01:44.54 | brlcad | the drives are over 7 years old, though, iirc |
| 01:45.00 | Pizbit | Heh |
| 01:45.04 | brlcad | so not too shabby |
| 01:45.16 | brlcad | i believe they are the first to fail yet |
| 01:45.19 | *** join/#bzflag orchid (orchid@orchid.user) |
| 01:46.05 | DTRemenak | ours were just over 6 years old |
| 01:46.20 | Pizbit | brlcad: Big drives? |
| 01:46.34 | Pizbit | Wait, if they're that old they have to be rather small heh. |
| 01:47.17 | *** join/#bzflag crko` (jan@crko.user) |
| 01:47.30 | brlcad | Pizbit: big drives |
| 01:47.37 | brlcad | fast drives |
| 01:47.42 | brlcad | expensive drives |
| 01:47.44 | DTRemenak | ours were 9gig'ers |
| 01:47.45 | Pizbit | Heh! |
| 01:47.50 | Pizbit | I knew that was going to be said! |
| 01:48.11 | Pizbit | Now the obvious question "How big in terms of GiB is big?" |
| 01:48.28 | brlcad | I could probably buy several dozen terabytes of storage space for the same money today |
| 01:48.33 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 01:54.10 | DTRemenak | whoa, crazy. accidentally typed bzflagz instead of bzflag, and bzflag-zero started up. flashback time... :) |
| 01:55.21 | blast007 | :) |
| 01:57.28 | *** join/#bzflag AndyIII (~AndyII@dcn242-33.dcn.davis.ca.us) |
| 02:03.49 | *** join/#bzflag a_monkey (~thechimp@user-0can32u.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 02:14.16 | Pizbit | bzflag-zero? |
| 02:15.11 | wegstar | where can I find the libs for curl.. err... |
| 02:16.01 | a_monkey | whoa doood! kool! i more than doubled my framerate by compiling bz w/ a bunch of optimizations! |
| 02:16.39 | a_monkey | used to be at like 29, 30, at the same server with the same options enabled, now it's at like 66 |
| 02:16.48 | bryjen | ~curl |
| 02:16.49 | ibot | Command line tool for getting data from a URL. URL: http://curl.haxx.nu/ |
| 02:17.21 | retro | bryjen, earlier you said that ibot learns stuff for the insults and lart. |
| 02:17.29 | retro | but looking at the ibot source, in the file |
| 02:17.38 | wegstar | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:18.19 | retro | files/blootbot.lart, I see the fish slap lart line, but I don't see how it gets referenced. |
| 02:18.38 | retro | Do you have a clue about this? |
| 02:18.49 | wegstar | no lib? |
| 02:19.31 | orchid | a_monkey: what optimizations did you use? |
| 02:19.31 | bryjen | ibot: literal fishslap |
| 02:19.59 | bryjen | hmm |
| 02:20.05 | bryjen | ibot: hello? |
| 02:20.07 | ibot | Howdy Bub |
| 02:20.18 | a_monkey | orchid: a ton. -mtune=G4 -mcpu=G4 -O3 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops -ffast-math -fno-trapping-math -fprefetch-loop-arrays |
| 02:20.32 | bryjen | ~listkeys slap |
| 02:21.11 | retro | hrm, there appear to be 48 more. |
| 02:21.11 | bryjen | ~literal CMD: whaleslap (.*?) |
| 02:21.12 | ibot | "CMD: whaleslap (.*?)" is "($who): <action> slaps $who upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh" |
| 02:21.24 | orchid | a_monkey: gentoo? |
| 02:21.35 | a_monkey | orchid, no |
| 02:21.45 | a_monkey | orchid: debian |
| 02:21.51 | orchid | ahh |
| 02:21.51 | retro | ~literal CMD: fishslap (.*?) |
| 02:21.52 | ibot | "CMD: fishslap (.*?)" is "($who): <action> slaps $who up side the head with a wet fish." |
| 02:22.19 | a_monkey | whaleslap is fun |
| 02:22.24 | bryjen | they're factiods, entries in the database |
| 02:22.48 | retro | If this database unpopulated when you untar the source? |
| 02:22.53 | bryjen | ~whaleslap retro |
| 02:22.56 | ibot | ACTION slaps retro upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 02:22.56 | retro | gan s/If/is |
| 02:23.20 | bryjen | i donno |
| 02:24.12 | retro | Well, the commands "literal" and "listkeys" gives me a few more clues to search for in the source. |
| 02:24.13 | retro | thanks |
| 02:24.16 | retro | ~bryjen++ |
| 02:24.29 | bryjen | i do know ibot here is full of crap ;) |
| 02:25.22 | *** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 02:25.22 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/ || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz || Simple Map Help - http://bzflag.org/wiki/MapMaking || BZFlag 2.0.0 is Released! - Go to http://sf.net/projects/bzflag http://bzflag.org/wiki/Download | |
| 02:25.22 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 02:37.17 | *** join/#bzflag Aribeth (~Aribeth@dsl081-067-057.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 02:49.32 | *** join/#bzflag Legoguy (~Lego|Desk@adsl-67-36-178-174.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 03:13.53 | orange | Legoguy: you always join after my kids are in bed and can't come in to see your robot, if it is even still running :-) |
| 03:14.08 | Legoguy | orange: perfect timing actually |
| 03:14.14 | Legoguy | i just got it working again today |
| 03:14.22 | orange | wow, that's kinda creepy |
| 03:14.42 | Legoguy | yeah |
| 03:15.21 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/Downloads.cxx: ditch the printf's, use a better name |
| 03:25.01 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (~SportChic@adsl-69-224-26-237.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 03:25.10 | *** join/#bzflag ep (~ep@ip68-97-124-161.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 03:25.38 | *** join/#bzflag siimo (~siimo@siimo.user) |
| 03:25.45 | siimo | how do i take screenshots in 2.0.0 |
| 03:25.58 | trepan | F5 |
| 03:26.07 | siimo | ty |
| 03:26.07 | *** part/#bzflag siimo (~siimo@siimo.user) |
| 03:27.01 | *** join/#bzflag wegstar (~foo@adsl-67-121-191-247.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 03:28.02 | *** join/#bzflag LouMan (~42e39a3f@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 03:29.09 | *** part/#bzflag LouMan (~42e39a3f@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 03:40.09 | wegstar | "<<<<<<< URLManager.h" someone working on something? |
| 03:41.40 | *** join/#bzflag _sedna (~sedna@cotton.lonelylion.com) |
| 03:45.36 | purple_cow | brlcad: raid failure? |
| 03:45.55 | brlcad | no, disk failure |
| 03:46.00 | brlcad | raid is what's keeping it alive |
| 03:46.10 | purple_cow | ahh |
| 03:46.14 | brlcad | 2 disks on separate raid slices failed |
| 03:46.18 | purple_cow | in our experience, they're usually one and the same ;) |
| 03:46.51 | brlcad | good ol expensive sgi raid :) |
| 03:47.01 | brlcad | these suckers are probably about 7 years old at least |
| 03:47.22 | purple_cow | heh |
| 03:47.46 | brlcad | hmm.. maybe less -- don't remember exactly when we last upgraded |
| 03:49.05 | purple_cow | what size array? |
| 03:49.19 | brlcad | the raid array did just pay for itself with these failures though |
| 03:57.51 | *** join/#bzflag Quol (~Quol@modemcable103.129-200-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 04:02.41 | *** join/#bzflag wegstar (~foo@adsl-67-121-191-247.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
| 04:02.51 | *** join/#bzflag blast007_ (~blast007@dialup-4.254.81.244.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 04:04.47 | *** join/#bzflag blast007_ (~blast@dialup-4.254.81.244.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 04:06.40 | brlcad | ahh.. express sgi support is damn nice |
| 04:07.17 | brlcad | 5 minutes from dial to hang-up and new drives are on the way |
| 04:08.04 | brlcad | they apologized that they couldn't ship them "today" |
| 04:08.18 | purple_cow | so probably friday then |
| 04:08.22 | purple_cow | not bad :) |
| 04:08.42 | brlcad | and then two weeks for shipping and receiving to deliver them |
| 04:09.08 | purple_cow | hehe |
| 04:09.16 | MeBigFatGuy | too true |
| 04:10.35 | a_monkey | anybody know how to make a box w/ a hole through it vertically? the equivelent of four boxes put together? |
| 04:10.46 | a_monkey | a square ring |
| 04:11.05 | a_monkey | i don't know my geometry, so i have no idea what to call it :-| |
| 04:11.49 | cods | bzmap come with SquareRing :) |
| 04:11.49 | a_monkey | in a bzflag world file, forgot to mention |
| 04:12.01 | a_monkey | cods: it does? kool |
| 04:12.25 | cods | but.. bzmap, not bzmapper. |
| 04:12.37 | cods | (in case it could be confusing) |
| 04:13.12 | cods | and I almost finished meshes CSG.. so that complex mesh creation are possible by scripting |
| 04:13.28 | MeBigFatGuy | a torect :) |
| 04:13.52 | a_monkey | MeBigFatGuy: so that's what you call it |
| 04:14.09 | MeBigFatGuy | well, a donut shape is a torus |
| 04:14.13 | MeBigFatGuy | so... |
| 04:14.34 | Legoguy | cods: something as complex as, say, caverns? |
| 04:14.47 | trepan | a_monkey: it's a default bzw object |
| 04:15.00 | trepan | use arc with ratio 0.5, divisions 4 |
| 04:15.04 | cods | Legoguy: well, any shapes is possible |
| 04:15.10 | trepan | = square with hole in it... |
| 04:15.29 | a_monkey | i was just going to ask if an arc with 4 divisions would work... thx trepan |
| 04:15.58 | cods | Legoguy: see test server on bzflag3.tuxee.net:45155 |
| 04:16.01 | SportChick | Nidhoggr: ping |
| 04:16.28 | Legoguy | heh, i will tomorrow |
| 04:16.33 | Legoguy | i have homework to do still |
| 04:16.33 | Legoguy | so |
| 04:16.33 | Legoguy | night |
| 04:16.42 | cods | hmmm, I mean 45154 |
| 04:16.50 | a_monkey | this is so weird. for some reason the bzflag man pages don't install on my system. |
| 04:17.01 | a_monkey | after make install, man bzw returns an error |
| 04:17.08 | cods | 'night Legoguy |
| 04:17.22 | trepan | a_monkey: also throw in "flatshading" if you want the faces to look flat |
| 04:17.25 | purple_cow | it's diffeomorphic to a torus ;) |
| 04:17.44 | a_monkey | trepan: and definately no smoothbounce, right? |
| 04:17.52 | trepan | prolly not |
| 04:18.10 | bryjen | !dict diffeomorphic |
| 04:18.11 | guu | bryjen: No definition for 'diffeomorphic' could be found. |
| 04:18.35 | purple_cow | it means "the same topology" |
| 04:21.33 | *** join/#bzflag SC (~SportChic@adsl-69-224-26-237.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 04:32.39 | *** join/#bzflag Bagheera (~Grumbler@grumbler.bronze.supporter.pdpc) |
| 04:36.04 | TimRiker | ~nickometer #bzflag |
| 04:36.04 | ibot | Nickometer list for #bzflag (11 of 12): MeBigFatGuy (99.9400%) ;; blast007_away (64%) ;; JBdiGriz (59%) ;; DarkMaster (49%) ;; CIA-5 (45%) ;; blast007 (44%) ;; DTRemenak (27%) ;; sgk284 (24%) ;; theEnemy (18%) ;; Noodle-sensei, _sedna, a_monkey, crko`, darth_mall, kyelewis`, purple_cow (14%) ;; [dmp] (10%). |
| 04:36.21 | MeBigFatGuy | w00t! |
| 04:36.30 | wegstar | ? |
| 04:36.34 | MeBigFatGuy | i am the lamest!!!! |
| 04:36.34 | TimRiker | you're the BigWinner |
| 04:38.25 | TimRiker | ~verstats #bzflag |
| 04:38.36 | meBigFatGuy | thats better |
| 04:41.57 | jpa_ | morning |
| 04:47.45 | *** join/#bzflag gvdm (~gvdm@210-246-20-53.paradise.net.nz) |
| 04:48.01 | brlcad | cods.. csg? :) |
| 04:48.21 | jpa_ | ~weather EFTU |
| 04:48.45 | cods | brlcad: yes (merge/difference/intersection between meshes) |
| 04:49.23 | meBigFatGuy | how pleasant |
| 04:49.32 | meBigFatGuy | when did you last see the sun? |
| 04:49.59 | cods | hmm ? |
| 04:50.10 | meBigFatGuy | jpa_ that is |
| 04:50.15 | jpa_ | cods: either you are up really early or then you should go to sleep |
| 04:50.25 | jpa_ | meBigFatGuy: yesterday afternoon |
| 04:50.28 | brlcad | cods, I know csg ;) .. just curious |
| 04:50.54 | cods | brlcad: I know you know :) I specified that only to make it clear in case I was using wrong term. |
| 04:51.28 | cods | I don't even remember what mean csg (computer solid geometry ? or something like that) |
| 04:51.56 | cods | jpa_: 6am here.. :/ |
| 04:52.00 | brlcad | how are you reconstructing the mesh internals of, say, a difference? |
| 04:52.02 | jpa_ | brlcad knows everything. should he be confused about something, it is just because we are using wrong terms :) |
| 04:52.09 | jpa_ | cods: oh, 6:52 here |
| 04:52.09 | brlcad | constructive solid geometry |
| 04:52.11 | Thumper_ | jpa_: good morning |
| 04:52.25 | brlcad | or combinatorial is you're a math zealot |
| 04:52.34 | jpa_ | cods: so obviously you are gmt+0118 :) |
| 04:52.52 | jpa_ | morning thumwhoshouldbesleepingbynowper |
| 04:53.16 | Thumper_ | jpa: should be but just drank half a pot of coffee... |
| 04:53.19 | cods | brlcad: for A & B, I split respective faces (those who collide with faces from other meshes), then I remove points accordingly to the operation. |
| 04:53.29 | cods | for substraction, I remove any point of A that is inside B |
| 04:53.45 | cods | then I compute the opposible (B-A) then merge both |
| 04:53.50 | cods | hmm, it's for Union here. |
| 04:53.52 | brlcad | but how do you reconstruct that new mesh face? |
| 04:54.08 | cods | for difference, I do the same, except that for the opposite I remove points that are not inside. |
| 04:54.24 | cods | brlcad: what you mean exactly ? |
| 04:54.35 | brlcad | more specific question, how're you stitching the two sub-meshes together? |
| 04:54.40 | brlcad | nearest neighbor or something? |
| 04:55.17 | brlcad | if I could draw on a whiteboard, I would :) |
| 04:55.50 | cods | hmm, I don't really understand. You mean in case 2 points are very near from each other ? |
| 04:56.19 | cods | my "Mesh" object automatically merge identical points |
| 04:56.35 | cods | so that adding 2 faces with a some point coordinate only add one vertex into the mesh |
| 04:56.59 | brlcad | no, no .. duplicates are simple |
| 04:57.23 | cods | hmm, then I don't see what you mean |
| 04:57.34 | brlcad | say you have some coarse sphere with another coarse overlapping sphere being differenced out |
| 04:57.49 | brlcad | e.g. taking a bite out of an apple |
| 04:58.06 | cods | ok |
| 04:58.25 | brlcad | you need to construct that inner-bite surface and attach it to the apple's bite rim |
| 04:58.31 | brlcad | how are you doing that? :) |
| 04:58.36 | brlcad | or are you not? |
| 05:00.00 | cods | say you have 2 meshes: A and B. Before doing CSG, I split each face of A that are overlapped with a face of B. Then I do the same thing on B from faces on A. At this point, I've created points that are common to A & B. |
| 05:00.14 | cods | then, what remain is just to remove a set of points choosed accordingly to the operation. |
| 05:00.47 | brlcad | ahh, splitting the faces of the original to some tolerance? |
| 05:01.31 | cods | I still don't see about what you're talking about tolerance/stitching/nearest.. I think I'm missing something. |
| 05:02.26 | cods | say I've a function prepareCsg(A,B) that return a set of points common to A & B, at no moment there is "imprecision" |
| 05:02.38 | brlcad | take two big intersecting polygons/triangles |
| 05:03.07 | brlcad | assume both are part of separate mesh surfaces |
| 05:03.19 | brlcad | and one is subtracted |
| 05:03.42 | cods | ok, you mean two 3d polygons here ? |
| 05:03.46 | brlcad | yes |
| 05:04.17 | brlcad | so, ideally, you want to end up with what's effectively a new polygon |
| 05:04.41 | brlcad | that's only a portion of the positive face that was subtracted against |
| 05:04.56 | brlcad | so you had to create at least two new points on that polygon where the two intersected |
| 05:05.02 | cods | yes |
| 05:05.03 | brlcad | is that the splitting you refer to? |
| 05:05.09 | cods | yes |
| 05:05.13 | brlcad | okay :) |
| 05:05.15 | brlcad | progress |
| 05:05.19 | cods | I first check if polygons are colliding |
| 05:05.46 | cods | then in this case, I compute face for one polygon and use it to split the other polygon, then I do the opposite operation. |
| 05:05.57 | cods | face->plane |
| 05:06.15 | cods | I compute plane, I mean. |
| 05:06.28 | brlcad | got it |
| 05:06.56 | cods | ok :) |
| 05:07.19 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~jeffm@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 05:07.20 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 05:07.26 | cods | It's an algorithm I deduced by myself this morning.. |
| 05:08.07 | cods | it's why I asked earlier here if such algorithm was documented somewhere |
| 05:08.24 | cods | but mine seem to work pretty well so far |
| 05:08.46 | cods | "mine".. well, the one used probably since a long time anywhere :) |
| 05:09.07 | brlcad | yes, splitting intersecting faces is pretty common :) |
| 05:09.44 | JeffM2501 | sop for a bsp and painters IIRC |
| 05:09.44 | brlcad | there's more you can do too when you have sub-optimal intersections too |
| 05:10.09 | cods | in my case, it's far from optimal.. and worst, it's in Python.. so it's sloooow |
| 05:10.13 | brlcad | which was a little of what I was getting at -- but that's cool, useful regardless :) |
| 05:10.26 | JeffM2501 | diferent vis algo? |
| 05:12.08 | brlcad | different face splitting |
| 05:12.27 | JeffM2501 | with modern hardware why even bother spliting faces? |
| 05:12.39 | JeffM2501 | the speed of the overdraw is faster then the split and cull |
| 05:12.58 | brlcad | insertion/removal of points to maintain some volumetric shape for example |
| 05:13.25 | trepan | JeffM2501: picture 3 triangles, with circular overlapping, back to front requires spliiting |
| 05:13.50 | JeffM2501 | are we talking transperancy so they HAVE to be sorted? |
| 05:14.01 | JeffM2501 | and yes I know of the painters delema |
| 05:14.29 | trepan | ah, didn't know it was coined |
| 05:14.34 | brlcad | can be a problem you need to shoot a ray and figure a proper face/normal |
| 05:14.35 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 05:14.36 | JeffM2501 | ot |
| 05:14.52 | JeffM2501 | it's one of the things a quake style BSP solved, yet still minimised overdraw |
| 05:15.16 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, yeah it can be, but that's why you store normals with each face on creation :) |
| 05:15.42 | JeffM2501 | from a rendering standpoint if they arn't trasnperant a simple z buffer takes care of it |
| 05:15.49 | JeffM2501 | for a collision standpoint there are issues |
| 05:17.34 | JeffM2501 | sorting for transperancy can be hard, I think that's why many engines store BSPs for all there models that can have them |
| 05:17.40 | JeffM2501 | aka stuff that's not a "world" face |
| 05:18.35 | JeffM2501 | yeah from a generic surface operation issue, anything non manifold can have problems |
| 05:19.15 | JeffM2501 | we have that problem with our solids on ocasion |
| 05:19.21 | JeffM2501 | mostly with non tolerant edges. |
| 05:19.27 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 05:19.34 | JeffM2501 | it just jacks up so many operations |
| 05:19.56 | brlcad | the implementor did kick off a few papers because of it, at least |
| 05:20.15 | JeffM2501 | probably what the stuff we are using is based on :) |
| 05:20.18 | JeffM2501 | in parasolid |
| 05:21.29 | JeffM2501 | is there an exact problem your dicussing, or just general musings? |
| 05:22.02 | brlcad | just dicussing |
| 05:22.08 | JeffM2501 | fun |
| 05:22.36 | JeffM2501 | I'm convinced there is no single game engine or visiblity algo that handles all posible geometric cases, and is still fast |
| 05:33.45 | brlcad | ~dict cocial |
| 05:33.50 | brlcad | drat |
| 05:41.58 | wegstar | n/join #php |
| 05:42.01 | wegstar | shoot |
| 05:42.08 | orchid | :) |
| 05:42.13 | wegstar | :) |
| 05:42.19 | orchid | wegstar: at least it wasnt your passwd this time |
| 05:42.30 | brlcad | heh |
| 05:42.31 | wegstar | hehe :) |
| 05:47.50 | cods | no what ? :) |
| 05:49.57 | Aribeth | wegstar, are you still on sleepycows? |
| 06:00.32 | *** join/#bzflag wegstar (~foo@adsl-67-121-191-247.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net) |
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| 06:32.55 | TimRiker | ~dict faster |
| 06:33.07 | TimRiker | ~dict lamer |
| 06:33.16 | TimRiker | ~dict luser |
| 06:33.27 | TimRiker | ~dict good thing |
| 06:34.40 | orchid | ~dict shabby |
| 06:34.48 | orchid | not too shabby |
| 06:35.03 | TimRiker | heh |
| 06:35.07 | orchid | it chaces now or something? |
| 06:35.40 | *** join/#bzflag ibot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 06:35.40 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/bb/ || http://my.BZFlag.org/ || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || Shellshock is revived http://shellshock.bzflag.bz || Simple Map Help - http://bzflag.org/wiki/MapMaking || BZFlag 2.0.0 is Released! - Go to http://sf.net/projects/bzflag http://bzflag.org/wiki/Download | |
| 06:35.40 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 06:35.40 | TimRiker | nope. just knows when it's done. it used to have to time out. |
| 06:38.11 | TimRiker | ~wtf iirc |
| 06:46.36 | TimRiker | ~wtf iirc |
| 06:46.44 | TimRiker | ~wtf afaik |
| 06:46.49 | TimRiker | ~wtf imho |
| 06:46.56 | TimRiker | ~wtf imnsho |
| 06:48.14 | Pizbit | Hrm. |
| 06:48.16 | Pizbit | That one sucks;) |
| 06:49.32 | TimRiker | ~dict sucks |
| 07:08.40 | sgk284 | *yawn* |
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| 07:21.30 | *** join/#bzflag gvdm (~gvdm@210-246-20-53.paradise.net.nz) |
| 07:23.20 | *** part/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~jeffm@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
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| 07:58.01 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@pD9EA7ABA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:58.52 | sgk284 | hey TS, congrats on ops |
| 08:13.32 | ToughShooter | thank you :-) |
| 08:23.00 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (revol@ALyon-112-1-4-100.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
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| 09:59.53 | *** join/#bzflag bz5790 (~5453c9dd@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 10:00.00 | bz5790 | help |
| 10:00.14 | bz5790 | where do i get my pass |
| 10:00.22 | bz5790 | and my name |
| 10:02.55 | Pizbit | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/ |
| 10:03.17 | Pizbit | Sign up there, it's the user/pass you create there that you use for the global login. |
| 10:21.09 | *** join/#bzflag [Prez|Kennedy] (~Matthew@130.85.253.237) |
| 10:56.12 | jpa_ | morning |
| 10:58.42 | *** join/#bzflag cristi (~cristb@82.137.26.35) |
| 10:59.32 | *** join/#bzflag |zongo| (~zongo@80-218-158-23.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:00.16 | cristi | hi |
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| 13:23.42 | bz8603 | hello |
| 13:24.02 | bz8603 | any bzflag devs there???? |
| 13:26.43 | SportChick | most of them are asleep still, i think |
| 13:31.37 | Chestal | too late |
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| 15:07.45 | jpa_ | lalal |
| 15:11.19 | TheRedBaron | Nidhoggr: ping |
| 15:11.21 | TheRedBaron | :) |
| 15:12.51 | Nidhoggr | hi |
| 15:13.04 | cristi | hi |
| 15:13.34 | TheRedBaron | Sorry I didn't back to you about hosting that server... |
| 15:13.43 | TheRedBaron | life took over. |
| 15:13.56 | Nidhoggr | nod |
| 15:14.00 | Nidhoggr | I know the feeling |
| 15:14.31 | *** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (~bernt@CPE000102d0fe24-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 15:14.35 | cristi | hi |
| 15:14.55 | cristi | how are you, thumper ? |
| 15:14.57 | cristi | :-) |
| 15:22.59 | Bagheera | Nidhoggr< does dragon have to be a four team ctf, or do i have some leeway there |
| 15:23.16 | Thumper_ | what does handicap really do? |
| 15:23.54 | *** join/#bzflag |zongo| (~zongo@80-218-158-23.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:28.52 | TheRedBaron | umm |
| 15:29.00 | TheRedBaron | think of wellfare... |
| 15:30.03 | TheRedBaron | Thumper_, from just what i've seen, those at the bottom of the score list, get benefits to get back up. |
| 15:30.25 | TheRedBaron | faster shot speed, faster tank speed, quicker turn radius... |
| 15:31.29 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (~d59c36c2@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 15:34.42 | orchid | ciao Tupone |
| 15:34.57 | Tupone | ciao |
| 15:35.03 | orchid | TheRedBaron: is that really RB2 in his profile on the gu site? |
| 15:35.06 | Nidhoggr | Bagheera: it can be 2 team. |
| 15:35.17 | Tupone | orchid: have you seen http://newsforge.org ? |
| 15:35.24 | RedBaron2 | lol orchid |
| 15:35.27 | RedBaron2 | no its not :) |
| 15:35.34 | orchid | Tupone: nope /me looks |
| 15:35.48 | orchid | oh RedBaron2 didnt see you there, its not you? |
| 15:35.50 | orchid | aww |
| 15:35.54 | RedBaron2 | lol |
| 15:36.08 | RedBaron2 | menotume put it up as a joke on me |
| 15:36.13 | TheRedBaron | orchid: very similar though :) |
| 15:36.19 | RedBaron2 | lol |
| 15:36.24 | RedBaron2 | not quite ;) |
| 15:37.22 | Bagheera | Nidhoggr< ok, i am decimating the dragons now down to something that is playable.....four maybe too much by the time i am done with the temple structure..........and i have to import some of jpa_ 's ocean world .....assuming he/she doesnt mind |
| 15:37.38 | Tupone | orchid: a week of digital freedom |
| 15:37.44 | orchid | Tupone: hm |
| 15:37.48 | Nidhoggr | cool :) |
| 15:38.01 | orchid | Tupone: oh cool :) |
| 15:38.08 | Tupone | :) |
| 15:38.30 | orchid | what is the Ostiense district of Rome? |
| 15:38.54 | Tupone | It is a piece of Rome :) |
| 15:39.13 | TheRedBaron | ~hail menotume |
| 15:39.15 | ibot | ACTION bows down to menotume and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 15:40.10 | orchid | ~dict menotume |
| 15:40.21 | menotume | lol |
| 15:40.37 | Bagheera | Tupone< nice idea. when is the next week.....i could use a vacation. |
| 15:41.26 | Tupone | lol |
| 15:41.37 | Tupone | Ostiense is a quarter in Rome |
| 15:41.38 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@pD9563817.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:42.55 | Bagheera | rome, hmmm...........a bit touristy |
| 15:43.36 | TheRedBaron | ~dict orchid |
| 15:43.55 | Tupone | orchid: did you see the bzflag mention there, too? |
| 15:44.06 | Bagheera | .....and very difficult to grow |
| 15:44.34 | orchid | Tupone: :) |
| 15:45.51 | Tupone | When I saw this article, I started thinking who got the same idea of our club? :) Then I realize they were talking about our |
| 15:57.42 | orchid | arrays get continual block of memory yes? array[2] would get 0xfffa4 0xfffa5 ? |
| 15:59.06 | Chestal | yes, elements in arrays are contigous, each element follows the preceding one without any padding |
| 15:59.16 | orchid | k |
| 15:59.31 | Chestal | otherweise, pointer arithmetics with arrays wouldn't work, i.e. a[2] = *(a+2) |
| 15:59.50 | orchid | ahh |
| 16:00.11 | Bagheera | do you have any concerns if the hardware is byte addressable or is that handled in the compiler |
| 16:00.31 | Tupone | the address of array[3] is the address of array[2] plus the size of the item |
| 16:00.33 | Bagheera | ie, contiguous array elements are fffa4, fffa8 |
| 16:01.02 | Bagheera | so the compile does assume byte addressable |
| 16:01.06 | Bagheera | compiler |
| 16:02.23 | *** part/#bzflag Tupone (~d59c36c2@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:03.10 | Chestal | addresses as numbers are not part of C :-) |
| 16:04.19 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 16:04.19 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 16:05.46 | Bagheera | they are when you are trying to tweak speed.......many uP do read/modify/writes in place of dedicated byte writes....... |
| 16:08.15 | Bagheera | most of that is transparent to the software.......until some fool comes into my office and starts complaining that my external i/f sucks because their software is slow.......grumble, grumble software push-button-weenies |
| 16:11.25 | Chestal | yes, but you are usually leaving the domain of standard C when you tweak things omn such a low level. It can be helpful to understand what is really going on on a typical platform, too |
| 16:15.27 | *** part/#bzflag xeroc (xeroc@bofh-noc.de) |
| 16:16.06 | Bagheera | whats typical? 32bit, 16bit, 8bit.......i suppose you can say x86 is typical |
| 16:17.36 | jpa_ | Bagheera: no, i do not mind at all |
| 16:17.39 | Thumper_ | is there a way to set wingsJumpCount infinite? |
| 16:19.56 | Bagheera | jpa_< thnx |
| 16:20.18 | Bagheera | Thumper_< doesnt look like it.....although you could set it very/very/very/large |
| 16:20.58 | Thumper_ | yes I've done that |
| 16:23.03 | Bagheera | it would probably be an easy fix, like a check for wingsCount=0 |
| 16:23.23 | jpa_ | nope |
| 16:23.26 | jpa_ | we do not want tha |
| 16:23.29 | jpa_ | maybe -1 |
| 16:23.40 | jpa_ | but, it would break protocol |
| 16:24.01 | Bagheera | why would zero break protocol? |
| 16:24.48 | cods | Thumper_: answer is easy: patch bzfs ! :) |
| 16:24.49 | jpa_ | because clients would behave different depending on the version |
| 16:24.54 | SportChick | Bagheera, did you see my question to you on bzbb peepz? |
| 16:24.58 | cods | ah |
| 16:25.00 | cods | it's client side ? |
| 16:25.02 | jpa_ | cods: it is in the client i assume |
| 16:25.14 | cods | right.. would be logical |
| 16:26.07 | Bagheera | jpa_< but you would get that with -1....well except that after 32k jumps it would fall and the other tanks wouldnt |
| 16:26.19 | Bagheera | SportChick< no, i didnt |
| 16:26.37 | jpa_ | Bagheera: umm |
| 16:26.41 | Thumper_ | cods: yes... |
| 16:26.53 | jpa_ | Bagheera: it is not int i think.. long etc |
| 16:26.54 | Thumper_ | was wondering if it was already available first... |
| 16:27.07 | ToughShooter | SportChick: half of people at secretplace are nr and /lagstats doesn't react |
| 16:27.12 | TimRiker | it's both. server sets, client obeys, server kicks if they don't obey (ie: go too high) |
| 16:27.18 | blast007 | s/why would/why/ |
| 16:27.47 | TimRiker | blast007: think "joust" |
| 16:27.59 | Thumper_ | the client probably stops jumping when limit is reached |
| 16:28.02 | Thumper_ | the server sets the limit |
| 16:28.04 | jpa_ | jumping is client.. why wouldn't wings jumping be client |
| 16:28.05 | TheRedBaron | ah nvm, tim just explained away my curiosity. |
| 16:28.14 | SportChick | ToughShooter: Nid is around - I just asked him to check the server |
| 16:28.39 | blast007 | inifinite wings jumps would basically disable the "too high" cheat kick.... |
| 16:28.40 | ToughShooter | I did, too but he didn't react. I guess it's Logan |
| 16:28.51 | Thumper_ | hmm server list is down? |
| 16:28.59 | SportChick | if he doesn't, I'll call him but I think he's looking |
| 16:29.11 | blast007 | ~bzflist |
| 16:29.45 | jpa_ | in the client it is down |
| 16:30.39 | TimRiker | jpa_: huh? ibot uses the same interface the client does. it is a client in that respect. |
| 16:30.42 | *** join/#bzflag Nidhoggr (mandrake@dragon.org) |
| 16:30.47 | jpa_ | hmm |
| 16:30.50 | jpa_ | for me atleast |
| 16:30.57 | Thumper_ | me 2 |
| 16:31.01 | orange | server list works for me |
| 16:31.02 | orange | in client |
| 16:31.03 | Thumper_ | and sbgodin who is on my server |
| 16:31.06 | Thumper_ | trying to get list |
| 16:31.14 | TimRiker | try it in a browser. might be internet routing issues. |
| 16:31.15 | orange | 2.0 anyway |
| 16:31.16 | jpa_ | Searching / |
| 16:31.26 | jpa_ | TimRiker: what was the address? |
| 16:31.30 | blast007 | http://my.bzflag.org/db/?action=LIST |
| 16:31.53 | blast007 | "The page cannot be displayed" :) |
| 16:31.59 | Thumper_ | connecting to bzflag.org... |
| 16:32.05 | Thumper_ | <pause> |
| 16:32.08 | *** join/#bzflag Tartaros (~icechat5@r2b100.chello.upc.cz) |
| 16:32.10 | TimRiker | sounds like a routing issue. works here. |
| 16:32.12 | Thumper_ | then it works |
| 16:32.16 | jpa_ | hmm |
| 16:32.20 | trepan | doesn't work here |
| 16:32.22 | jpa_ | works in firefox.. |
| 16:32.24 | blast007 | ah, now it works for me |
| 16:32.25 | Nidhoggr | routing problems. |
| 16:32.27 | Thumper_ | works now |
| 16:32.29 | Nidhoggr | I can verify that. :( |
| 16:32.29 | jpa_ | now works |
| 16:32.34 | blast007 | :) |
| 16:32.39 | Nidhoggr | we have a routing bug. |
| 16:32.41 | cods | work for me |
| 16:32.51 | trepan | and now i does :) |
| 16:33.02 | Nidhoggr | engineers are working on it. |
| 16:33.13 | blast007 | k :) |
| 16:33.31 | Thumper_ | thx :) |
| 16:34.45 | Pimpinella | TimRiker: thinking of permissions, do you think it would be good to have a state 'forbidden' for perms, additional to 'allowed' and 'not allowed'? |
| 16:35.17 | TheRedBaron | hmm List works fro me to. |
| 16:35.20 | TheRedBaron | *for |
| 16:35.43 | TimRiker | Pimpinella: whats the diff tween "not allowed" and "forbidden" ? |
| 16:36.29 | Pimpinella | so a forbidden action couldn't be accessed even if allowed in another group |
| 16:37.23 | TimRiker | well, if you can propose a clean way of handling it, that's not easier with the current system. |
| 16:37.51 | trepan | like the per-user explicit denys? |
| 16:38.07 | ToughShooter | How does it come that my lag in /lagstas in almost at all times are higher than a traceroute in terminal shows me? |
| 16:38.24 | ToughShooter | trepan: Something is wrong with the texture downloading |
| 16:38.37 | trepan | you'll have to be a little more specific |
| 16:38.56 | ToughShooter | trepan: It never gets downloaded even if packet filter is turned off and all hosts are allowed |
| 16:38.58 | jpa_ | ToughShooter: server connection matters too, and icmp can go faster than udp |
| 16:39.00 | bryjen | do allows or denies take precidence now? or is it dependant on the order the groups are applied to a user? |
| 16:39.17 | TheRedBaron | I thought textures weren't downloaded. |
| 16:39.18 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@bc186118.bendcable.com) |
| 16:39.23 | trepan | ToughShooter: OS? libcurl version? |
| 16:39.24 | ToughShooter | jpa_: traceroute uses UDP, according to man page |
| 16:39.39 | Noodleman | oink |
| 16:39.43 | trepan | TheRedBaron: they are now :) |
| 16:40.02 | TheRedBaron | trepan: so how do you host textures for a map, to be downloaded? |
| 16:40.04 | ToughShooter | Mac OS X, libcurl 7.10.2. Zaphod has no problems and runs Mac OS X, too |
| 16:40.18 | trepan | TheRedBaron: the URLs are built into the map |
| 16:40.43 | TheRedBaron | trepan: url has to be put in the config file, or map file? |
| 16:40.44 | trepan | ToughShooter: so works for one Mac user, but not the other? |
| 16:41.03 | ToughShooter | trepan: It seems so. I am running 10.3.8 () |
| 16:41.25 | ToughShooter | (the latest version) but I dunno whether zaphod runs the same one |
| 16:41.26 | trepan | TheRedBaron: map |
| 16:42.04 | trepan | ToughShooter: run the client with '-d' (a single one), and see what CURL messages get dumped |
| 16:42.11 | TheRedBaron | trepan: is there a "central" url to host your textures, or is the map maker "on his own"? |
| 16:43.28 | trepan | TheRedBaron: there are two domains authorized by default (bzflag.org and bzflag.bz), if the user wants to have access to other sites that have to edit their DownloadAccess.txt file |
| 16:44.05 | ToughShooter | trepan: "curl_easy_perform() error: 28" is the biggest problem, I suppose but there are errors before |
| 16:44.08 | trepan | there is no mechanism for allowing users to store files in either of those 2 domains yet |
| 16:44.36 | trepan | ToughShooter: same error as Tim was getting yesterday |
| 16:44.37 | cods | trepan: what's the problem if there was not this domain authorization thing ? |
| 16:44.46 | trepan | cods: porn |
| 16:45.03 | trepan | it just allows parents to have some control if they run a tight shpi |
| 16:45.10 | trepan | s/shpi/ship |
| 16:45.27 | ToughShooter | trepan: Should I try a build of today? |
| 16:45.39 | trepan | ToughShooter: shouldn't hurt, but doubt it'll help |
| 16:45.57 | trepan | ya, why not ;) |
| 16:46.39 | ToughShooter | trepan: ok, my powerless hardware compiles the software now |
| 16:48.03 | TheRedBaron | trepan: hmmm |
| 16:48.56 | trepan | TheRedBaron: there's also a cache/updating system in place, and downloads can be disabled |
| 16:49.09 | TheRedBaron | trepan: heh, you beat me to it :) |
| 16:49.39 | cods | while I understand now the need for authorizing download site for textures, I think it's a bit weird to ask players to manualy update their configuration file for each servers |
| 16:49.59 | Pimpinella | trepan: i saw per user explicit denies in the code, but it doesn't seem to be documented, is there another way using it but editing the userdb file manually? |
| 16:50.07 | trepan | cods: allow * |
| 16:50.39 | trepan | it's fairly well explained in the DownloadAccess.txt the gets automatically generated |
| 16:50.45 | DTRemenak | cods, I'm betting that there will end up being a central textures host that can be monitored for offensive materials |
| 16:51.28 | trepan | there's also a ServerAccess.txt file, for joining servers |
| 16:51.41 | TheRedBaron | i'm guessing this is in 2.0.1 or 2.0.2 |
| 16:51.52 | trepan | but that is not created by default, so the default remains full access |
| 16:51.59 | cods | trepan: where is this DownloadAccess.txt file ? |
| 16:52.16 | cods | (not in the anon-CVS from yesterday) |
| 16:52.41 | cods | oh |
| 16:52.43 | cods | doh |
| 16:52.50 | cods | that's the configuration file.. |
| 16:52.51 | cods | neverming |
| 16:53.03 | cods | nevermind even |
| 16:53.24 | TheRedBaron | trepan: full access by default? |
| 16:53.33 | trepan | for servers |
| 16:53.46 | trepan | game servers that is |
| 16:53.57 | TheRedBaron | not for client right? |
| 16:54.10 | trepan | huh? |
| 16:54.27 | cods | So I'm supposed to add a comment when people join so that they manually update their configuration and restart their clients ? |
| 16:54.40 | trepan | clients can be disallowed from specific servers using ServerAccess.txt (in the users config dir) |
| 16:55.09 | trepan | cods: a notice is already generated |
| 16:55.19 | cods | oh, good :) |
| 16:55.28 | TheRedBaron | trepan: from what i understand, 2.0.2, new feature comes out, you download custom textures from map/server. There are security settings and the default is, to allow all downloads. |
| 16:55.50 | trepan | TheRedBaron: no, there are 2 files |
| 16:56.01 | Pimpinella | trepan: i saw per user explicit denies in the code, but it doesn't seem to be documented, is there another way using it but editing the userdb file manually? |
| 16:56.02 | trepan | 1 control download servers, the other controls game servers |
| 16:56.26 | trepan | the download servers are limited to bzflag.org and bzflag.bz by dafault |
| 16:56.39 | TheRedBaron | understanding.... |
| 16:56.56 | TheRedBaron | and those have an authorization, to keep the textures clean. |
| 16:58.36 | Bagheera | dejavu |
| 16:58.50 | DTRemenak | all over again |
| 16:59.27 | TheRedBaron | you guys are starting to scare me... :) |
| 16:59.28 | trepan | Pimpinella: huh? (p.s. i've never played with it myself) |
| 16:59.57 | DTRemenak | TheRedBaron, just starting? man, you're not easily scared! :) |
| 17:00.18 | Pimpinella | trepan: you mentioned it, and myself i never heard of it until i read it in the code lately |
| 17:00.20 | DTRemenak | I've been scaring myself for a long time! |
| 17:00.36 | bryjen | Pimpinella: i don't think there are in-game commands for changing permissions. the closest you get is being able to assign groups |
| 17:00.38 | Pimpinella | not even sure if they are saved back to the file again |
| 17:01.03 | trepan | Pimpinella: ya, it's not in the bzfs.6 man page, i only know it from the code too |
| 17:01.04 | TheRedBaron | DTRemenak: TMI!!! |
| 17:01.17 | TheRedBaron | I avoid mirrors at all cost ;) |
| 17:01.22 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 17:01.58 | Nidhoggr | naughty! |
| 17:01.59 | Nidhoggr | :) |
| 17:02.19 | DTRemenak | my ta reminds me of a star trek quote |
| 17:02.24 | trepan | Pimpinella: writePermsFile() seems to output them |
| 17:03.27 | TheRedBaron | I"m still a little lost on the texture downloads... Is this a case of ignorance is bliss? |
| 17:03.43 | trepan | what's the prob? |
| 17:03.46 | DTRemenak | in TNG:Timescape, Picard is talking about a conference he just came back from... "He just kept talking and talking in one looong in-cred-ibly unbroken sentence moving from topic to topic so that noone had a chance to interrupt him...it was really quite hypnotic." |
| 17:04.15 | Pimpinella | trepan: yep... |
| 17:04.27 | Bagheera | the fact that you have it narrowed to the episode name scares me |
| 17:04.42 | trepan | Bagheera: ditto |
| 17:04.56 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 17:04.57 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@Patlabor221.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 17:04.57 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 17:05.01 | DTRemenak | it's season six episode 25 if you to be more scared |
| 17:05.08 | DTRemenak | *want |
| 17:05.47 | TheRedBaron | no thanks DTRemenak, Lunch is coming up, don't want to lose my appetiete. |
| 17:05.53 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 17:08.23 | TimRiker | TheRedBaron: what are you missing re downloads? in 2.0.2 servers understand a texture that contains a url. they send this to clients. 2.0.0 clients ignore it. 2.0.2 clients look in a local file to see if the hostname in the url is one that's allowed. if so they grab the texture and use it. |
| 17:09.00 | ToughShooter | Does anyone remember the problem I meantioned with my map? I've got screenshots from the player now and the whole problems are radar-only, hiding radar gives him 119fps (and with radar 1 fps) |
| 17:09.31 | TimRiker | TheRedBaron: there is a default permission list including *.bzflag.org and it's a one line change to enable all sites. |
| 17:09.47 | TheRedBaron | TimRiker: seems simply enough, but I'm a visual learner. Don't worry about, i''ll wait for 2.0.2 and find out how it works via "trial and Error" |
| 17:09.59 | TimRiker | =) |
| 17:10.17 | trepan_away | TheRedBaron: http://trepan.bzflag.bz/sat.jpg |
| 17:10.33 | DTRemenak | when are we thinking about 2.0.2? |
| 17:11.08 | TheRedBaron | trepen_away: cool!, but mind boggling :) |
| 17:11.09 | bryjen | last weekend? ;) |
| 17:11.32 | TimRiker | yeah, did you miss it? |
| 17:12.04 | DTRemenak | that's the last I had heard, but nobody did anything about it last weekend... |
| 17:13.15 | DTRemenak | TheRedBaron, http://dtremenak.bakadigital.com/bzfi0000.png |
| 17:14.39 | DTRemenak | compare to http://www.libpng.org/pub/png/pngsuite.html |
| 17:14.42 | TheRedBaron | DTRemenak: impressive! is that with 2.0.2? |
| 17:14.47 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 17:14.55 | Thumper_ | is there a way to display the HUD / altitude in observer mode? |
| 17:15.09 | DTRemenak | it's pulling those images directly of libpng.org's web server |
| 17:15.29 | TheRedBaron | wow. very cool |
| 17:15.35 | DTRemenak | ~trepan++ |
| 17:15.45 | TheRedBaron | Firgured it was 2.0.2, because you have the console disabled... |
| 17:15.54 | DTRemenak | that map is my way of proving that our png decoder works right :) |
| 17:16.33 | TheRedBaron | hmm You could have some pretty interesting map wars going on... |
| 17:16.49 | TheRedBaron | various textures slamming on other players... |
| 17:16.54 | DTRemenak | it'll be interesting to see what creative folks come up with |
| 17:17.15 | TheRedBaron | DTRemenak: yes I agree, but the key word is "creative" :) |
| 17:17.22 | DTRemenak | heh :) |
| 17:18.50 | JeffM2501 | pr0n server |
| 17:19.13 | JeffM2501 | and let the copywright infringement begin!!! |
| 17:19.19 | TheRedBaron | JeffM2501: you dirty ole. **** ;) |
| 17:19.29 | JeffM2501 | like you wouldn't go there :) |
| 17:20.17 | TheRedBaron | nah, From your avatars, you like that jap anime junk... |
| 17:20.27 | Bagheera | ya know, vertex painting was so easy in blender, textures are killing me. |
| 17:20.44 | Bagheera | ~whaleslap TheRedBaron for his ignorance |
| 17:20.46 | ibot | ACTION slaps TheRedBaron for his ignorance upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 17:21.26 | TheRedBaron | ~poke Bagheera |
| 17:21.28 | ibot | but then who will poke the pokers, TheRedBaron? |
| 17:21.52 | TheRedBaron | bah, no fair, You know all the ibot commands. |
| 17:22.03 | TheRedBaron | JeffM2501: CS= counter strike? |
| 17:22.09 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 17:22.13 | JeffM2501 | crystal space |
| 17:22.21 | JeffM2501 | counter strike needs no more shots |
| 17:22.53 | TimRiker | just added new ibot stuff last night. |
| 17:23.22 | TheRedBaron | curiosity killed the cat... :) |
| 17:23.27 | TimRiker | ~wtf imnsho |
| 17:23.30 | JeffM2501 | with a baseball bat |
| 17:23.50 | TheRedBaron | lmao!! |
| 17:23.57 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker, how is your blotbot/infobot merge going? |
| 17:24.01 | TheRedBaron | i love you "~wtf" command... |
| 17:24.05 | TimRiker | not the cleanest short name, but it's an interface to the bsd command. |
| 17:24.13 | TimRiker | ~wtf lmao |
| 17:24.21 | TimRiker | ~wtf rotf |
| 17:24.27 | TimRiker | useless. |
| 17:24.28 | DTRemenak | hah |
| 17:24.34 | JeffM2501 | guu dict wtf |
| 17:24.35 | bryjen | ~wtf wtf |
| 17:24.38 | guu | JeffM2501: foldoc and vera responded: vera: WTF What / Where / Who / Why The Fuck (telecommunication, Usenet, IRC); foldoc: WTF who/what/why the fuck? The universal interrogative particle. Also {WTH} |
| 17:24.53 | TimRiker | ~dict lmao |
| 17:24.55 | JeffM2501 | hmmm guu is not for kids then |
| 17:24.56 | TheRedBaron | lmao = laughing my ankles off. (with a slight twist:) |
| 17:25.03 | TimRiker | ~dict rotf |
| 17:25.06 | DTRemenak | ~wtf rotflmmfao |
| 17:25.17 | JeffM2501 | guu dict lmao |
| 17:25.19 | guu | JeffM2501: foldoc: LMAO <chat> laughed my ass off. Seen on {Compuserve}. (1996-02-04) |
| 17:25.34 | JeffM2501 | at least she knows the slang |
| 17:25.41 | DTRemenak | guu dict rotflmmfao |
| 17:25.43 | guu | DTRemenak: No definition for 'rotflmmfao' could be found. |
| 17:25.51 | DTRemenak | not enough of it |
| 17:25.54 | TheRedBaron | LOl |
| 17:26.13 | TheRedBaron | one doesn't need a definition for that dtr :) |
| 17:26.17 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 17:26.19 | bryjen | mmf? |
| 17:26.25 | DTRemenak | it's pretty self evident |
| 17:26.46 | TheRedBaron | if your mind is twisted enough... |
| 17:26.53 | DTRemenak | bryjen, rotf + lmao + "mf" before "a" |
| 17:27.08 | DTRemenak | mf is a single, profane, adjective |
| 17:27.34 | DTRemenak | if you can't figure it out from that, you can suffer until you wake up tomorrow morning and realize what it is :) |
| 17:27.43 | bryjen | someone need to wash your keyboard |
| 17:27.55 | TimRiker | guu: dict mf |
| 17:27.56 | guu | TimRiker: wn and vera responded: vera: MF Multi Frequency; wn: MF n : 300 to 3000 kilohertz [syn: {medium frequency}] |
| 17:28.03 | DTRemenak | that's true, there's all sorts of junk in it |
| 17:28.03 | TimRiker | hehe |
| 17:28.09 | TheRedBaron | guu: dict Mofo |
| 17:28.11 | guu | TheRedBaron: No definition for 'Mofo' could be found. |
| 17:28.24 | JeffM2501 | guu is a good girl she is. |
| 17:28.24 | TimRiker | that's it multi-frequency, yeah that's right. |
| 17:28.30 | bryjen | Multi Frequency A**, TimRiker ? |
| 17:29.04 | TheRedBaron | anymore of this and the coworkers are going to think i got a different batch of coffee then the rest of them... |
| 17:29.05 | TimRiker | a must be amplifier |
| 17:29.35 | TimRiker | ~dict rotfl |
| 17:29.51 | TheRedBaron | ~dict mofo |
| 17:29.57 | JeffM2501 | friend of mine has a license plate that says "SMRT MF" he had to tell the DMV it meant "master fisherman" |
| 17:30.09 | TheRedBaron | and the DMV fell for it? |
| 17:30.40 | DTRemenak | whoa. guu just spews profanity |
| 17:30.46 | TheRedBaron | gee the roads just got a whole lot safer.... /sarcasm |
| 17:30.52 | JeffM2501 | they did |
| 17:31.01 | JeffM2501 | guu can also cuss in chinese |
| 17:31.01 | guu | JeffM2501: Hoookkkkaaayyy!!?!?! |
| 17:32.10 | TheRedBaron | and that is chinese for...? |
| 17:32.17 | JeffM2501 | okay |
| 17:32.20 | JeffM2501 | :) |
| 17:32.24 | JeffM2501 | she dosn't do it all the time |
| 17:32.26 | JeffM2501 | guu what? |
| 17:32.26 | guu | what is sex |
| 17:32.34 | JeffM2501 | guu what time is it? |
| 17:32.38 | JeffM2501 | guu what time it? |
| 17:32.40 | guu | Dunno, JeffM2501. |
| 17:32.42 | JeffM2501 | guu what time it? |
| 17:32.43 | guu | I don't know. |
| 17:32.44 | JeffM2501 | guu what time it? |
| 17:32.46 | guu | I don't have a clue. |
| 17:32.51 | JeffM2501 | guu blag |
| 17:32.51 | guu | JeffM2501: But I am le-tired. |
| 17:32.53 | JeffM2501 | guu blag |
| 17:32.54 | guu | JeffM2501: Huwwwwat!!?!?! |
| 17:32.56 | JeffM2501 | guu blag |
| 17:32.57 | guu | JeffM2501: this is IRC not a retard convention. |
| 17:33.00 | JeffM2501 | hmmm |
| 17:33.02 | JeffM2501 | guess not |
| 17:33.06 | JeffM2501 | guu blag |
| 17:33.06 | guu | JeffM2501: beats the heck outa me. |
| 17:33.06 | TheRedBaron | haha! |
| 17:33.12 | JeffM2501 | they are in there |
| 17:33.21 | JeffM2501 | she has like 30 responces |
| 17:33.22 | TheRedBaron | yea, she hates me too |
| 17:33.26 | JeffM2501 | some are chinses curses |
| 17:33.31 | menotume | guu time |
| 17:33.32 | guu | menotume: 09:33 AM, February 17, 2005 |
| 17:33.44 | TimRiker | ~x en zh I swear at everyone |
| 17:33.57 | DTRemenak | yeesh. I must not have that charset installed. |
| 17:34.04 | TimRiker | heh |
| 17:34.55 | menotume | ahh, guu is a California girl |
| 17:35.56 | TheRedBaron | ah.. |
| 17:36.04 | TheRedBaron | that explains alot! |
| 17:36.10 | JeffM2501 | totaly |
| 17:36.37 | DTRemenak | like, totaly, dude |
| 17:36.51 | JeffM2501 | I think she was born in texas tho |
| 17:36.57 | DTRemenak | howdy guu |
| 17:36.58 | guu | Bugger all, I dunno. |
| 17:37.01 | DTRemenak | nope |
| 17:37.08 | DTRemenak | not born in texas, or else lobotomized |
| 17:37.14 | JeffM2501 | well she is 1/2 japanese |
| 17:37.21 | TheRedBaron | looks like she's been to australia... |
| 17:37.34 | TheRedBaron | guu dict bugger |
| 17:37.35 | guu | TheRedBaron: web1913 and wn responded: wn: bugger n : someone who engages in anal copulation (especially a male who engages in anal copulation with another male) [syn: {sodomite}, {sodomist}, {sod}] v : practice anal sex upon [syn: {sodomize}, {sodomise}]; web1913: Bugger \Bug"ger\, n. [F. bougre, fr. LL. Bulgarus, a Bulgarian, and also a heretic; because the inhabitants of Bulgaria were infected (1 more message) |
| 17:37.44 | TheRedBaron | woah! |
| 17:37.50 | JeffM2501 | yeah you dn't want to ask that |
| 17:37.52 | TheRedBaron | more than i wanted to know... |
| 17:37.53 | DTRemenak | told you she was vulgar |
| 17:37.55 | JeffM2501 | you didn't know |
| 17:38.00 | JeffM2501 | the brish are dirty :) |
| 17:38.02 | RedBaron2 | wow, thats not the same deffinition i thought |
| 17:38.11 | bryjen | guu more |
| 17:38.15 | DTRemenak | I asked something else and got a nice list of "synonyms" |
| 17:38.16 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (~birdie@d54C34D0B.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:38.19 | JeffM2501 | has to be the same person |
| 17:38.21 | RedBaron2 | lol |
| 17:38.24 | bryjen | a-yup |
| 17:38.27 | TheRedBaron | yea, good thing i never told some one "bugger" |
| 17:38.33 | JeffM2501 | bugger off |
| 17:38.35 | JeffM2501 | ya wank |
| 17:38.41 | TheRedBaron | yea... |
| 17:38.51 | JeffM2501 | or when the brits call ya a "tosser" |
| 17:38.58 | TheRedBaron | this one's going in the black book, for when i go overseas.. |
| 17:39.08 | TheRedBaron | dare I ask guu what a "tosser" is? |
| 17:39.09 | DTRemenak | guu: dict tosser |
| 17:39.10 | guu | DTRemenak: web1913 and wn responded: web1913: Tosser \Toss"er\, n. Ohe who tosser. --J. Fletcher; wn: tosser n 1: terms of abuse for a masturbator [syn: {jerk-off}, {wanker}] 2: someone who throws lightly (as with the palm upward) |
| 17:39.12 | ToughShooter | Hmpf, doesn't work with newest source code, too. |
| 17:39.26 | JeffM2501 | yeah stop asking guu about the nasty words |
| 17:39.38 | TheRedBaron | and you said guu was a good girl Jeff? |
| 17:39.41 | DTRemenak | I only knew of definition 2! |
| 17:39.47 | JeffM2501 | I said a good girl she is |
| 17:39.54 | JeffM2501 | never seen my fair lady have you? |
| 17:39.54 | DTRemenak | ibot: dict tosser |
| 17:40.03 | DTRemenak | hmph |
| 17:40.09 | TheRedBaron | Jeffm2501: oh yes, lots of times |
| 17:40.14 | TheRedBaron | Rex Harrison is my favorite actor |
| 17:40.14 | menotume | guu has a past |
| 17:40.14 | guu | menotume: But I am le-tired. |
| 17:40.19 | DTRemenak | I like ibot's order better at least |
| 17:40.26 | JeffM2501 | config it up |
| 17:40.40 | DTRemenak | guu: tell me about your past |
| 17:40.45 | TheRedBaron | Now i'm suprised guu didn't have the definition for mofo |
| 17:40.52 | DTRemenak | hah |
| 17:41.06 | TheRedBaron | pretty mild compared to what she throws out... |
| 17:41.07 | DTRemenak | in the other window: "<guu> DTRemenak wants me to tell you: about your past" |
| 17:41.23 | JeffM2501 | she's not dumb |
| 17:41.43 | DTRemenak | TheRedBaron, try "dict dickhead" and look at the list of synonyms |
| 17:41.57 | TheRedBaron | i never said she was. dang, and thats not the first time she's "buggered" me... |
| 17:42.11 | bryjen | DTRemenak: try /msg TheRedBaron |
| 17:42.13 | bryjen | ;) |
| 17:42.17 | TheRedBaron | DTRemenak, You know how you said i didn't scare easy... |
| 17:42.22 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 17:42.23 | TheRedBaron | I take that back. |
| 17:42.35 | DTRemenak | bryjen, I didn't tell you to do it :) |
| 17:43.27 | TheRedBaron | so... |
| 17:43.36 | TheRedBaron | who's the sick man who keeps updating her definitions? |
| 17:43.42 | TheRedBaron | Jeff???? |
| 17:43.48 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 17:43.51 | DTRemenak | she grabs them off some online databases I think |
| 17:43.52 | JeffM2501 | she pulls it from the web |
| 17:44.00 | DTRemenak | question is who adds all that junk to the dictionary |
| 17:44.01 | JeffM2501 | yeah she has no internal defs |
| 17:44.10 | JeffM2501 | except the respinces |
| 17:44.21 | TheRedBaron | hmm |
| 17:44.49 | TheRedBaron | Well, I've got to go... |
| 17:44.58 | TheRedBaron | Meeting to run to cya all later |
| 17:46.07 | RedBaron2 | lol, i g2g also |
| 17:46.14 | RedBaron2 | later |
| 17:46.54 | Noodleman | i love british cusswords |
| 17:51.40 | Noodleman | if i could be any nationality, i'd be a brit |
| 17:52.09 | *** join/#bzflag mmu_man (revol@ALyon-112-1-7-156.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:53.43 | DTRemenak | Noodleman, why? |
| 17:54.01 | Bagheera | wow, noodle without the japanse-master title |
| 17:54.10 | DTRemenak | Most of the british people I know are arrogant fools :) |
| 17:57.19 | Arrogance | man, someone has arrogance registered....shoot |
| 17:57.50 | *** join/#bzflag crko (jan@crko.user) |
| 17:58.43 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (Tupone@host-84-222-138-188.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 18:05.37 | Noodle-sensei | Grumbler: ok, you happy? :-) |
| 18:05.44 | Grumbler | no, i am never happy |
| 18:05.49 | Noodle-sensei | well yeah |
| 18:05.58 | Noodle-sensei | you're always grumbling, but that's cool |
| 18:06.04 | Grumbler | heh |
| 18:06.09 | Noodle-sensei | there's plenty to grumble about |
| 18:06.37 | Grumbler | it does make it easy |
| 18:06.41 | Noodle-sensei | DTRemenak: because brits have the best humor, the best cusswords, the best everything |
| 18:07.00 | Grumbler | except the best looking women....generally speaking |
| 18:07.09 | Noodle-sensei | well, maybe so |
| 18:07.14 | Grumbler | and food |
| 18:07.18 | Grumbler | their food sucks |
| 18:07.21 | DTRemenak | Noodle-sensei, I'd tend to disagree. I favor the Australians personally :) |
| 18:07.27 | Noodle-sensei | you don't like crumpets and potted meat? |
| 18:08.03 | Grumbler | potted meat sounds like a fetish topic on a p0rn site |
| 18:08.08 | Noodle-sensei | haha |
| 18:08.14 | DTRemenak | Grumbler, I did not need to think about that |
| 18:08.32 | DTRemenak | and did not want to for that matter... |
| 18:08.48 | Noodle-sensei | that's nothing different than the crap that goes through my mind all the time anyway |
| 18:09.09 | DTRemenak | Noodle-sensei, you are one sick, sick man... |
| 18:09.16 | Noodle-sensei | i don't deny it |
| 18:09.30 | Noodle-sensei | come to #noodlebot sometime when we are all high on caffeine |
| 18:09.50 | Noodle-sensei | paraphilias galore |
| 18:10.11 | Grumbler | its a sad, sad world when you have your own channel |
| 18:10.42 | Noodle-sensei | it's a pretty good channel :-P |
| 18:11.57 | brlcad | mm.. |
| 18:12.01 | brlcad | suchi |
| 18:12.02 | *** join/#bzflag Elf (~Elf@host164-238.pool81114.interbusiness.it) |
| 18:12.23 | Noodle-sensei | DTRemenak: you don't wanna do that |
| 18:12.30 | Noodle-sensei | trust me, you DON'T wanna do that |
| 18:12.36 | *** join/#bzflag M0rpheus` (griffith@cmb1-204.dial-up.arnes.si) |
| 18:12.46 | DTRemenak | I can't stop now :) |
| 18:12.52 | DTRemenak | muwahahaha |
| 18:13.05 | DTRemenak | I can't _be_ stopped now :) |
| 18:13.52 | *** join/#bzflag ep (~ep@ip68-97-124-161.ok.ok.cox.net) |
| 18:14.10 | guest-ita | hi all |
| 18:14.15 | guest-ita | may need help |
| 18:14.46 | guest-ita | it seems i can't ask here :-) |
| 18:15.06 | DTRemenak | ~ask |
| 18:15.08 | ibot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Please don't be demanding or insulting. Remember, we're all volunteers. Please don't /msg people without permission. See also http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
| 18:15.16 | JeffM2501 | you can |
| 18:15.19 | guest-ita | ok |
| 18:15.19 | Noodle-sensei | kinda hard to ask when a weirdo dude that thinks he's a vampire has just fed upon all your blood |
| 18:15.20 | guest-ita | thanks |
| 18:15.20 | JeffM2501 | they are just being stupid |
| 18:15.32 | guest-ita | just installed it |
| 18:15.40 | guest-ita | with gentoo emerge, version 2.0.0 |
| 18:15.53 | guest-ita | it doesn't start because it says : |
| 18:15.54 | guest-ita | Could not set Video Mode: X11 driver not configured with OpenGL. |
| 18:15.54 | guest-ita | Error creating window - Exiting |
| 18:16.04 | guest-ita | but |
| 18:16.04 | JeffM2501 | what video card do you have? |
| 18:16.10 | guest-ita | Ati |
| 18:16.17 | guest-ita | with Linux, ati drivers |
| 18:16.17 | JeffM2501 | what drivers are you running? |
| 18:16.28 | JeffM2501 | what model ATI? |
| 18:16.44 | guest-ita | 0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Radeon R250 Lf [FireGL 9000] (rev 02) |
| 18:16.51 | JeffM2501 | eww firegl |
| 18:16.58 | guest-ita | yes |
| 18:17.05 | JeffM2501 | well we asked for openGL and didn't get it. |
| 18:17.22 | guest-ita | so that's the problem |
| 18:17.29 | JeffM2501 | you are running the drivers that come with X ( DRI) or the ones from www.ati.com ? |
| 18:17.39 | guest-ita | those from ati |
| 18:18.05 | JeffM2501 | well you could try to build it yourself |
| 18:18.08 | jpa_ | umm |
| 18:18.15 | jpa_ | you could emerge ati-drivers |
| 18:18.23 | JeffM2501 | or dosn't emerge build bzflag? |
| 18:18.26 | JeffM2501 | or is it just a binary |
| 18:18.26 | guest-ita | already done |
| 18:18.34 | guest-ita | i emerged ati-drivers |
| 18:18.35 | jpa_ | emerge does build bzflag |
| 18:18.37 | guest-ita | set up X |
| 18:18.39 | JeffM2501 | ATI may use a diferent GL lib, that bz may need to be built with |
| 18:18.44 | guest-ita | tested with glxgears |
| 18:18.46 | jpa_ | but, 2.0.0 only with ~x86 |
| 18:18.47 | guest-ita | and glxinfo |
| 18:18.54 | DTRemenak | guest-ita, are you using bzflag with SDL or not? |
| 18:19.02 | JeffM2501 | yeah that's the next thing |
| 18:19.04 | JeffM2501 | try non SDL |
| 18:19.11 | jpa_ | i have bzflag and ati working fine |
| 18:19.19 | jpa_ | on gentoo |
| 18:19.28 | JeffM2501 | or SDL if your not doing it. |
| 18:19.34 | jpa_ | bzflag build by my self, though |
| 18:19.38 | bryjen | did you get the ati drivers before or after you built bzflag? |
| 18:19.43 | JeffM2501 | something may have been built before the drivers |
| 18:19.46 | guest-ita | before |
| 18:20.02 | JeffM2501 | did you do SDL before or after the drivers? |
| 18:20.04 | guest-ita | gentoo ebuild is 2.0.0.20050117 and it's not ~x86 |
| 18:20.23 | jpa_ | so it has gone stable now |
| 18:20.25 | guest-ita | before |
| 18:20.29 | JeffM2501 | they make ATI drivers for not x86? |
| 18:20.41 | JeffM2501 | guest-ita, you may want to do SDL AFTER since it will need to link with GL |
| 18:20.46 | JeffM2501 | and the ATI may replace your GL lib |
| 18:20.47 | jpa_ | was ~ week or two ago |
| 18:21.08 | JeffM2501 | your SDL may be linked to a now non existant GL |
| 18:21.13 | guest-ita | JeffM2501, that's a good point |
| 18:21.24 | jpa_ | JeffM2501: ~x86 in gentoo means unstable, beta, x86 being the stable |
| 18:21.25 | JeffM2501 | and by default bzflag will try to use SDL |
| 18:21.30 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 18:21.39 | JeffM2501 | you could tell bz to not use SDL as well |
| 18:21.47 | guest-ita | good, how ? |
| 18:22.01 | JeffM2501 | --without-SDL in config IIRC |
| 18:22.09 | JeffM2501 | I'd just rebuild your SDL |
| 18:22.14 | JeffM2501 | the SDL is a good thing to have |
| 18:22.19 | Noodle-sensei | gentoo is awesome |
| 18:22.28 | guest-ita | i think so, better rebuild SDL |
| 18:22.31 | jpa_ | that is USE="-sdl" emerge bzflag |
| 18:22.37 | jpa_ | if you want not to have sdl |
| 18:23.13 | jpa_ | Noodle-sensei: true :) |
| 18:23.33 | jpa_ | Noodle-sensei: while i have not come up with any good explanation why it is so awesome, but it just is :) |
| 18:23.53 | Noodle-sensei | it's awesome because it's so tweakable |
| 18:23.58 | guest-ita | Well, thanks guys for your support, now i have some clues |
| 18:24.00 | Noodle-sensei | and so, well |
| 18:24.03 | Noodle-sensei | GEEKY |
| 18:24.18 | jpa_ | oh, yes, that must be it :P |
| 18:24.50 | guest-ita | well, see you! |
| 18:25.06 | jpa_ | cya |
| 18:25.33 | jpa_ | slackware is ok |
| 18:25.36 | jpa_ | or was ok |
| 18:25.39 | Noodle-sensei | i use debian, not because i like it, but because it's so quick to set up |
| 18:25.48 | bryjen | 80 v2 servers 41 v1.10 |
| 18:26.01 | DTRemenak | only 80? |
| 18:26.07 | DTRemenak | ~bzflist |
| 18:26.08 | jpa_ | it has fallen behind now, package-manager implementation just does not compare to portage or apt |
| 18:26.12 | Pimpinella | 40 now |
| 18:26.17 | DTRemenak | jpa_, I don't use packages anyway |
| 18:26.23 | DTRemenak | at least slack doesn't get in the way |
| 18:26.45 | DTRemenak | that's the problem I always had with redhat, suse, mandrake. their dumb binary packages conflicted with everything I built |
| 18:27.00 | jpa_ | yup |
| 18:27.04 | jpa_ | gentoo is nice on that |
| 18:27.11 | DTRemenak | suse's an awesome system other than that though :) |
| 18:27.19 | jpa_ | when everything is build, you atleast have dev stuff also :) |
| 18:28.03 | ToughShooter | Can someone help me regarding erors with my map? http://resfork.sourceforge.net/temp/BZFlag/ |
| 18:28.06 | DTRemenak | yeah, slack provides all the dev stuff by default. building from tarballs is painless. |
| 18:28.33 | bryjen | DTRemenak: curl "http://db.bzflag.org/db?action=LIST" 2> /dev/null | grep "BZFS0026" | wc -l |
| 18:29.01 | DTRemenak | bryjen, then why does Ibot say 125? |
| 18:29.09 | DTRemenak | or is that players? |
| 18:29.10 | bryjen | that's players |
| 18:29.12 | DTRemenak | ah |
| 18:29.20 | Grumbler | ug, even i knew that ;) |
| 18:29.21 | DTRemenak | k, that makes more sense |
| 18:29.27 | DTRemenak | Grumbler, shuddup :) |
| 18:29.59 | Grumbler | sry, i will go back to my corner........anybody seen my pointy hat |
| 18:30.17 | DTRemenak | Noodle-sensei stole the tin foil one :) |
| 18:30.34 | Grumbler | shoot, it took me a whole week to make that |
| 18:31.00 | Grumbler | http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html |
| 18:32.30 | DTRemenak | heh, http://zapatopi.net/mindguard.html |
| 18:33.38 | Grumbler | the name known and trusted by Amiga users for nearly a decade |
| 18:34.02 | Grumbler | Belgium Doesn't Exist! - Land of sprouts and chocolate? I think not! |
| 18:34.51 | Grumbler | http://zapatopi.net/belgium.html |
| 18:34.51 | DTRemenak | "Prolong staring at this static DePsych display may result in memory fragmentation and involuntary hypertelekinesis." |
| 18:34.57 | DTRemenak | involuntary hypertelekinesis...cool |
| 18:35.18 | Grumbler | noodleman must be a consultant for that display |
| 18:35.48 | DTRemenak | hahahaha |
| 18:35.49 | DTRemenak | http://zapatopi.net/mgpl.html |
| 18:37.15 | DTRemenak | it's beautiful *sob* |
| 18:38.11 | DTRemenak | "If this paragraph wasn't here, the Internet as a whole would fall under this License. Aren't you glad I included it?" |
| 18:38.44 | *** part/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@pD9563817.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:39.36 | bryjen | "For what is source code but thought logically expressed and haphazardly indented?" |
| 18:45.37 | *** join/#bzflag bz8412 (~522398a9@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:46.49 | DTRemenak | "Although conveniently left out of most C textbooks, it's a well-known fact in the anti-mind-control community that the rand() function -- originally developed by the RAND Corporation for use in its political mind-control research -- interacts with a computer's underlying circuitry in complexly emergent ways, making the function useful for mind-control detection due to the quantum effects of... |
| 18:46.50 | DTRemenak | ...psychotronics on aluminum atoms. A side-effect of this is that it also works well for pseudo-stochastic number generation, something many hack programmers ignorantly use it for." |
| 18:49.44 | *** join/#bzflag andy (andy@www.bettagirl.com) |
| 18:56.26 | jpa_ | lalalalala |
| 19:05.42 | *** join/#bzflag bz0690 (~52439b5d@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 19:14.34 | *** join/#bzflag crko (jan@cmb27-47.dial-up.arnes.si) |
| 19:21.25 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (~birdie@d54C34D0B.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:24.04 | sgk284 | DTRemenak, was whoever wrote that serious? |
| 19:24.13 | DTRemenak | sgk284, you decide :) |
| 19:24.23 | DTRemenak | the mgpl is really a fun read though |
| 19:24.46 | sgk284 | lol well obviously i know its false... but some people are crazy and would seriosuly write something like that thinking it was true heh |
| 19:24.55 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 19:32.45 | *** join/#bzflag LunarFault (Fault@r118056.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) |
| 19:33.06 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:35.05 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/ (4 files in 3 dirs): provide the user with download error messages |
| 19:35.06 | trepan | twice bitten, thrice shy |
| 19:40.55 | *** part/#bzflag LunarFault (Fault@r118056.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp) |
| 19:42.51 | *** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:44.40 | jpa_ | are those new error messages trepan added for download errors? |
| 19:45.04 | TimRiker | and: for details type "I don't understand the meaning of NO WARRANTY". |
| 19:45.08 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-058-046-013.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:45.31 | jpa_ | I don't understand the meaning of NO WARRANTY |
| 19:45.34 | TimRiker | jpa_: hehe. nope. quotes from the above: http://zapatopi.net/mgpl.html |
| 19:46.04 | jpa_ | oh.. |
| 19:46.12 | jpa_ | those messages would have been cool :) |
| 19:46.49 | trepan | jpa_: yup |
| 19:50.56 | jpa_ | "but only non-evil |
| 19:50.58 | jpa_ | people can modify" |
| 19:51.00 | jpa_ | :( |
| 19:51.10 | jpa_ | i've been left outside :E |
| 19:51.41 | *** join/#bzflag |zongo| (~zongo@80-218-158-23.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:03.08 | poxy | hrm.. when I run bzflag it nearly instantly causes Xorg to use 100% cpu time... |
| 20:03.14 | poxy | i think its a dridriver problem |
| 20:03.31 | poxy | when i kldunload radeon after the crash, the system stops responding totally |
| 20:05.10 | edini | freebsd user with radeon? i can`t even run bzflag |
| 20:05.25 | edini | i use windows just for bzflag ;) |
| 20:05.28 | poxy | heh, it's in my embedded system :) |
| 20:05.34 | *** join/#bzflag blast007__ (~blast007@dialup-4.254.81.187.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 20:05.41 | poxy | system-on-a-board with a super small case & psu |
| 20:05.42 | *** join/#bzflag blast007_ (~blast@dialup-4.254.81.187.Dial1.Chicago1.Level3.net) |
| 20:05.57 | poxy | its so cute... its like 8" wide, 9" deep, and 3" tall |
| 20:07.24 | poxy | it only seems to do that with bzflag tho... i can run 3 glxgears just fine... |
| 20:07.34 | poxy | but bzflag in full screen or window crashes the instant i start the game |
| 20:07.38 | poxy | mayeb i should try a different server |
| 20:08.00 | poxy | turning texturing off fixes it too |
| 20:08.35 | poxy | heh i can hear the power supply make a different noise and hear the fan speed change with every thing i do |
| 20:08.51 | orange | has anyone ever given the idea of something like death zones for certain teams? Like an area of the map that reds can stay in as long as they want, but if anyone else goes in there for more than 5 seconds they die? |
| 20:10.02 | poxy | i think it could be that the power supply cant give enough voltage for the card |
| 20:10.07 | orange | or a world weapon that doesn't affect a particular team? |
| 20:10.21 | poxy | and only when doing texturing does the problem crop up |
| 20:10.23 | Grumbler | poxy, (well, you know i am not the best source, but), have you looked at the amount of memory the textures are using?.......maybe a bad section in an upper ram |
| 20:10.52 | poxy | vram or systemram? |
| 20:11.11 | Grumbler | depends on the graphics card, could be shared |
| 20:11.34 | poxy | its an ati rage128..pci..i dont think its shared |
| 20:13.22 | poxy | it very well could be the voltage...its probably a 50W power supply |
| 20:13.49 | poxy | it works without texturing..i could try all settings down plus texturing |
| 20:14.16 | Grumbler | if so, the textures could cause your g.card to use more power and kill it |
| 20:14.27 | poxy | it just crashes the video card |
| 20:14.41 | trepan | poxy: you tried it in a debugger? |
| 20:14.58 | poxy | i can hear the power usage as i am in options before i open up a game and change texturing from off to on |
| 20:15.11 | poxy | trepan: tried what? bzflag? Xorg takes 100% cpu time when this happens |
| 20:16.25 | Grumbler | poxy have you tried lower resolutions? |
| 20:16.31 | poxy | no i haven't |
| 20:16.33 | trepan | so xorg crashes, xorg goes into a spin and doesn't come out, or bzflag does? |
| 20:16.40 | poxy | trepan: xorg does |
| 20:17.07 | poxy | heh i was playing with all options off with texturing and it worked longer than normal and then it did it again...im 99% sure its just the power ;) |
| 20:17.49 | poxy | i reset my bios options and im going to try it again |
| 20:18.11 | Pizbit | poxy: Using xcompmgr at all? |
| 20:18.19 | poxy | no...i dont know what that is |
| 20:18.25 | Pizbit | heh |
| 20:18.41 | Pizbit | It's the program that does all the fancy effects:) |
| 20:19.00 | Pizbit | Window transparency, shadows, etc. |
| 20:19.42 | poxy | ill try at 640x480 |
| 20:21.18 | poxy | hrm... if there was a frame rate limiter, i i might be able to get this to work |
| 20:22.12 | poxy | i wonder if it could be a misconfiguration between what xorg thinks the card is, and what it is |
| 20:24.20 | SportChick | DTRemenak: I still am having horrendous lag and jitter problems. And I just kept going nr with lag of 32ms and I couldn't see that I was nr, but I was nr to other players |
| 20:24.32 | DTRemenak | hm :( |
| 20:24.44 | SportChick | it makes it virtually impossible to play the game and I don't see any progress toward finding a solution |
| 20:24.49 | SportChick | so.. |
| 20:24.56 | Tupone | poxy: a frame limiter could be a vsync to blank |
| 20:25.03 | retro | SportChick, do you see this on other servers,or just secretplace? |
| 20:25.10 | SportChick | multiple servers |
| 20:25.25 | retro | Also, if you run a 1.10.8 version and play on older servers, do you see the problem there? |
| 20:25.39 | poxy | Tupone: I think I just need to give up on the dream of using this computer for bzflag, or get a beefier power supply (not happening with this case) |
| 20:26.06 | Tupone | hehe, power will do that ! |
| 20:26.17 | Birdie | how can i improve fps? except changing options, and if i need to stay with the graphic card i have now (matrox G550), on servers like secret place its hardly impossible to play |
| 20:26.30 | *** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (~fly_for_y@host244-152.pool62211.interbusiness.it) |
| 20:26.30 | uidzero | What connection is "idea" for a server? |
| 20:26.35 | uidzero | + speed |
| 20:26.46 | DTRemenak | Birdie, did it get significantly worse with 2.0? |
| 20:26.47 | poxy | how much power do you think a r128 sucks up in 3d mode at max power? |
| 20:27.06 | Birdie | 1.10.8 was very worse to, hard to say if it got worser |
| 20:27.12 | SportChick | retro: no - no problem on older servers |
| 20:27.19 | Birdie | some time ago i had fps of 18 on secret place |
| 20:27.35 | Grumbler | Birdie< http://zapatopi.net/belgium.html .....dont try and fool us |
| 20:27.36 | retro | hrm, so we've isolated the problem to just bzflag version 2.0. |
| 20:27.39 | Birdie | now i changed some options, lower quality etc, i have 35, but thats still not that good |
| 20:27.43 | DTRemenak | iirc Matrox cards hate having lots of texture lists, so the new font renderer can be bad for them. try "set useBitmapFontRenderer 1" in your config file |
| 20:28.01 | Chestal | smoothing always hurt my fps with G400 on Linux |
| 20:28.06 | DTRemenak | no guarantees but it might help |
| 20:28.09 | retro | poxy, dump the rage 128 card. I did, and I _LOVE_ my new radeon 9800! |
| 20:28.36 | Birdie | i'll try DTRemenak, thx |
| 20:28.45 | Birdie | G550 is so worse for 3D:( |
| 20:28.48 | DTRemenak | thank Chestal if it works :) |
| 20:28.49 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@pD9563817.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:28.54 | Birdie | thx chestal:) |
| 20:29.02 | poxy | retro: that wouldnt help with the power issue |
| 20:29.16 | ToughShooter | ping trepan |
| 20:29.27 | retro | oh, sorry. I got confused with the multiple conversations. You're concerned with power, not fps. GOt it. |
| 20:29.44 | trepan | ToughShooter: ? |
| 20:30.00 | ToughShooter | I tried it with newest build and I get still the same error |
| 20:30.09 | Birdie | btw grumbler lol |
| 20:30.57 | trepan | ToughShooter: dunno, i can't reproduce the error here, Mr. Riker may be better situated to help you |
| 20:31.21 | trepan | ToughShooter: it was debug error 28? |
| 20:31.36 | trepan | s/debug/CURL |
| 20:31.39 | ToughShooter | Yes, IIRC |
| 20:31.59 | poxy | should I look at the 5v or 12v rail? i believe just the 5 cuz its the pci card... |
| 20:32.05 | trepan | and you've got the old libcurl, 7.10.x |
| 20:33.13 | ToughShooter | libcurl 7.10.2, Mac OS X 10.3.8 |
| 20:35.37 | uidzero | What connection speed is "idea" for a server? |
| 20:35.38 | uidzero | :) |
| 20:35.43 | uidzero | ideal |
| 20:35.57 | ToughShooter | When using that texture demo at your server at port 8888 I get "curl_easy_perform() error: 28", then 2*"setTextureFilter() Couldn't find texid: -1", 6 times the first error and then one time the second one (curl) |
| 20:36.30 | Grumbler | uidzero< how many players, how many shots |
| 20:36.36 | uidzero | Just |
| 20:36.42 | poxy | I see the 5v rail power go down and the 12v rail go up when I load the video card |
| 20:36.58 | uidzero | Just "open" (suggestions?) what is a good number of shots? |
| 20:37.11 | uidzero | I have cable, 256K up and 5 meg down.... |
| 20:37.21 | poxy | heh 3 shot 6 player |
| 20:37.22 | uidzero | Would that be "so-so". |
| 20:37.29 | uidzero | Ack! |
| 20:37.29 | uidzero | :) |
| 20:37.42 | uidzero | What about a barely used T1? |
| 20:37.43 | ToughShooter | trepan: commands like "/usr/bin/curl -C - -O http://www.planamesa.org/neojava/downloads/NeoOfficeJ-1.1_Beta.dmg" work perfect |
| 20:37.45 | poxy | having 50 people on my 10shot when bz was slashdotted created 10,000packets per second output and 1MB/s out |
| 20:37.49 | poxy | uidzero: that'd work great |
| 20:37.57 | uidzero | Ok, I may do that soon. |
| 20:37.58 | poxy | for up to 15 players at 3-10 shot |
| 20:38.20 | uidzero | Dual PIII 600, 512 ecc ram, and 4 - 9 gig scsi drives in Raid5... |
| 20:38.26 | poxy | yeah, dont need raid for bzflag |
| 20:38.34 | uidzero | That wuold be the only "service".. |
| 20:38.42 | poxy | if you wanna talk server, i have a 8-way piii xeon 550MHz with 2gb ram and raid 10 |
| 20:38.43 | uidzero | would - Would it still work though. :) |
| 20:38.53 | uidzero | poxy: I'm a poor boy. :) |
| 20:38.55 | Grumbler | poxy, the reason 12 goes up is probably the ground reference moving around with the increased 5v load.......if you had a good scope, you might be able to see if the 5v supply drops low enough to upset the card |
| 20:38.58 | poxy | uidzero: so am i |
| 20:39.08 | menotume | someone please help SportChick - her jitter and NRs are baaaaad |
| 20:39.18 | uidzero | This is my server... not a "employers/friends/etc".. :) |
| 20:39.26 | poxy | uidzero: heh so is the one I named ;) |
| 20:39.31 | uidzero | s/a/an/ :) |
| 20:39.32 | Grumbler | uidzero< cpu power is usually not an issue....its all aboud bandwidth |
| 20:39.41 | *** join/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@80-218-158-23.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 20:39.45 | uidzero | You are richer (poorer) than me. :) |
| 20:39.53 | DTRemenak | Grumbler speaks the truth |
| 20:39.54 | uidzero | Grumbler: Ahh, ok. I'll try it still. |
| 20:39.55 | poxy | oh, a 50Mhz turbosparc (i think) anyway, a sparc classic isnt good for more than 6 or so people with (infinite) shot |
| 20:40.04 | jpa_ | i have double P4 2.8ghz 3GB with 100Mbit connection :) |
| 20:40.07 | trepan | ToughShooter: too bad 'curl -v' doesn't show function calls |
| 20:40.08 | uidzero | It does run as a daemon? Or do I need to have a monitor? |
| 20:40.10 | jpa_ | but it is not mine :( |
| 20:40.15 | poxy | heh its a daemon of course |
| 20:40.19 | uidzero | Ok |
| 20:40.32 | jpa_ | umm no, not a daemon |
| 20:40.32 | uidzero | I think it has a 1 meg video card. :) |
| 20:40.43 | jpa_ | it does not detach from console |
| 20:40.44 | uidzero | if that.. |
| 20:40.52 | jpa_ | but you can run it with ssh/screen |
| 20:40.58 | DTRemenak | jpa_, it does if you run it with daemon :) |
| 20:40.59 | uidzero | jpa_: Ok, as long as I don't need XZ. :) |
| 20:41.00 | uidzero | I'll go and read up on it. |
| 20:41.13 | uidzero | Thanks for covering these few questions for me. |
| 20:41.17 | *** part/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@pD9563817.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:41.20 | Grumbler | uidzero< have you read this http://bzflag.org/wiki/CreatingAServer |
| 20:41.23 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (~tuckerm@bc186118.bendcable.com) |
| 20:42.00 | jpa_ | poxy: so by far, i seem to have most over-sized server for bzflag? :P |
| 20:42.16 | jpa_ | and a poor 10Gbyte transfer limit :( |
| 20:42.26 | uidzero | Grumbler: not yet, I will now though. |
| 20:42.28 | poxy | heh, i have 3.5mbit unmetered |
| 20:42.45 | Grumbler | you found another provider eh, poxy |
| 20:42.54 | poxy | no, same provider, different account/connection speed |
| 20:42.55 | uidzero | up/down? |
| 20:43.04 | poxy | uidzero: both...add 'em up to get full duplex speed |
| 20:43.04 | uidzero | Ohhh, data center? |
| 20:43.10 | SportChick | hubby's home - going |
| 20:43.12 | poxy | no, dedicated line to building in manhattan |
| 20:43.20 | uidzero | Nice. |
| 20:43.31 | poxy | pseudo-dedicated heh... its a trunk from a t3 |
| 20:44.09 | poxy | they're dumb tho. but they did increase the speed from 3 to 3.5mbit because i helped them with some of their network problems |
| 20:44.26 | jpa_ | :D |
| 20:44.32 | poxy | that's really sad...but the problem wasnt too horrid... data was going over one of their backup t1s instead of the t3 |
| 20:44.45 | poxy | they lost the preference data :P |
| 20:45.00 | orange | uh-huh, so "they" increased your speed? ;-) |
| 20:45.30 | poxy | yeah...because they werent listening to me and kept insisting i disconect my network and connect a computer directly and it "had" to be my firewall's fault |
| 20:45.36 | poxy | and finally somebody listened... |
| 20:46.52 | poxy | 5v rail idle: 4.75, burnMMX enabled: 4.5V |
| 20:47.48 | poxy | 12v rail idle: 13V-13.3V, burnMMX enabled: 14V |
| 20:48.34 | Grumbler | wow, thats a heft dip for 5v.....with noise, 4.5v might be enough to flip some bits you dont want flipped |
| 20:50.14 | Grumbler | 12v rails dont freak me out all that much, they are usually put into voltage regulators or used for some long length signal drives.......which have some big margins |
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| 20:51.13 | orange | worst I can do with the burn utilies is make my CPU temp go up 10degrees C |
| 20:51.29 | orange | but man, it happens fast |
| 21:09.18 | poxy | heh nothing bad is happening when i run the utility :P |
| 21:10.29 | poxy | heh, i ran burnMMX and then bzflag and it crashed even before it displayed anything...although glxgears worked fine...this is cool |
| 21:28.04 | Grumbler | poxy any other opengl game you could play on it....tux racer maybe |
| 21:28.23 | poxy | the 5 volt fan on the radeon is getting 4.5V power...is this normal? |
| 21:28.38 | Grumbler | who cares, its a fan |
| 21:28.41 | poxy | 4.7 now... heh it cant be normal |
| 21:29.04 | poxy | ill try another game |
| 21:32.32 | trepan | TimRiker: i just installed libcurl 7.13.0, no connection problems |
| 21:34.18 | poxy | Grumbler: I played a tuxracer race, and the voltage was down to 4.57 and it didnt freak out |
| 21:36.20 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/common/URLManager.cxx: DEBUG1 for libcurl version |
| 21:39.45 | poxy | So that is weird, because tuxracer textures everywhere and everything |
| 21:40.44 | Grumbler | yeah, my uneducated opinion is that tux racer would use as much memory as bzflag, and would be as hard on the hardware. |
| 21:41.09 | poxy | i've used this card to play bzflag with xfree86 (not xorg) in another system just fine |
| 21:41.29 | TimRiker | trepan: I suspect I was on a slower link to the outside world. comcast |
| 21:41.53 | trepan | didn't you try 150 second timeout? |
| 21:43.06 | Grumbler | poxy, well if the card has been used in another system, it would give you a better feel that it is not the card......i am not familar with differences in xorg/xfree so i dont know if something can be drawn from that. |
| 21:45.30 | Grumbler | as far as the power differences between the two, without a scope on the power line, I am not sure an rms volt meter could see a surge effectively enough to draw conclusions that it is not the power supply. |
| 21:45.33 | poxy | Hrm, I still think bzflag is harder on the hardware than tuxracer... tuxracer only brought the voltage to 4.57, bzflag got it to 4.50 which is right when it messed up |
| 21:45.53 | poxy | its a "True RMS Multimeter" |
| 21:46.06 | trepan | TimRiker: and wasn't the report that you were getting immediate failures? ("it's spending less than a second on each request") |
| 21:46.10 | Grumbler | heh |
| 21:46.43 | Grumbler | dont suppose you have a spare supply around you could plug in |
| 21:47.04 | poxy | this is a special mini power supply...this whole enclosure is about 8" wide, 2.5" tall, and 10" deep |
| 21:47.14 | poxy | "this whole enclosure" == the whole computer |
| 21:47.22 | Grumbler | are the connectors any different |
| 21:47.29 | poxy | it's AT |
| 21:47.51 | Grumbler | i'm thinking for a quick test, nothing long term |
| 21:47.57 | poxy | ill go see if i can find an at power supply |
| 21:51.26 | poxy | hrm it also has a connector that many atx psus have... three black, two orange, one red |
| 21:51.54 | poxy | in the same order, the original one has blue, 2 black, 2 red, 1 yellow |
| 21:54.11 | Grumbler | must be a source on the web to tell you what the voltages are on those lines..... |
| 21:54.23 | poxy | ill short the power supply on, and test it |
| 21:54.53 | Grumbler | without a load, you may see some freaky stuff |
| 21:56.33 | poxy | looks correct |
| 21:57.38 | Chestal | ah, Radeon now working here on Debian |
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| 22:11.01 | Grumbler | Chestal< is there a way in debian to track memory allocation.......i believe i am tracking a memory leak, but i cant find the culprit....top/slabtop are rough to correlate over a long time |
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| 22:32.05 | poxy | |wow |
| 22:32.16 | poxy | i put pints out from a normal psu into the computer |
| 22:32.18 | poxy | its really really ugly |
| 22:32.22 | poxy | i wish i could take a pic |
| 22:34.04 | poxy | Grumbler: works much better with a 300watt psu |
| 22:34.38 | *** join/#bzflag elmerfudd (~elmer@67-51-33-137.nrp4feld.roc.ny.frontiernet.net) |
| 22:35.13 | poxy | 5 volt rail is actually 5 volts, and between loaded and unloaded condition doesnt differ more than three or four hundreths |
| 22:36.22 | Chestal | Grumbler: hmm, no, all I would have recommended is ps/top and slabtop |
| 22:37.33 | poxy | Grumbler: do you know enough about electronics to be able to give a modification for a current psu design? ;) |
| 22:38.12 | Grumbler | ah,er, yah, i probably could.....not my idea of fun though ;) |
| 22:38.40 | poxy | how could i determine how many watts the psu is? there's no label |
| 22:38.42 | Grumbler | Chestal< hmmm, ok, guess i have to start shutting down services and see if i can track it |
| 22:39.22 | poxy | i guess i could run the 5v rail through my ammeter |
| 22:39.32 | Grumbler | poxy< the easy way, put a meter in.....most cards are specified chip by chip |
| 22:39.45 | poxy | put a meter in what? |
| 22:39.55 | Grumbler | in between the wall and the box |
| 22:40.21 | poxy | figure out amps drawn and get watts from it and voltage? |
| 22:40.47 | Grumbler | oh, you want to know what the wattage on the "un-working" psu is? |
| 22:40.54 | poxy | no, working is good |
| 22:41.01 | poxy | oh yeah, the capacity |
| 22:41.59 | Grumbler | best way, did the numbers off the box and find the manufacturer on the web |
| 22:42.35 | poxy | well im running an ammeter on the 5v rail... |
| 22:43.42 | poxy | it goes up to .85A at its peak... idles at around .4 |
| 22:45.26 | poxy | tuxracer uses .75A max |
| 22:46.43 | poxy | what's funny is that burnMMX causes 5v draw to go to .9A |
| 22:47.22 | TimRiker | Grumbler: strace perhaps? that's a lot of info though. |
| 22:59.51 | Grumbler | poxy, yeah, it could have been noise, board level etc.....when you dont have the power right, sometimes it nots a simple failure but a combination of surge,etc..... |
| 23:00.02 | Grumbler | sry it took awhile to get back....work |
| 23:00.22 | poxy | could a cap somewhere help? |
| 23:00.49 | poxy | i guess that's too hard a question to answer without seeing it |
| 23:01.56 | Grumbler | poxy< if its surge, yes, if its noise, its ify. |
| 23:02.19 | poxy | yeah you cant see a surge with a reading every 1/4th second |
| 23:02.21 | Grumbler | its not an easy debug without a lot of probing |
| 23:03.13 | Grumbler | now, this is probably not simple, but is there a way to measure the voltage at the supply and the voltage at the card |
| 23:03.27 | poxy | that's why i measured the fan on the card :) |
| 23:03.32 | Grumbler | ah |
| 23:04.12 | Grumbler | i was thinking you might be able to put in a larger wire for the 5v and decrease the voltage drop across that line |
| 23:04.26 | Grumbler | probably have to do it to the gnd as well |
| 23:05.05 | poxy | heh... the wire isnt too small...its actually bigger than used in the normal power supply lines |
| 23:05.16 | Grumbler | bummer |
| 23:10.09 | poxy | i see "Analog vision" as the maker...and a serial num on a huge cap |
| 23:10.31 | poxy | hey that same cap has all the info i need |
| 23:11.43 | poxy | ttp://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:odwltHwQAAgJ:81.201.129.146/hitek/pdf/hitekstocklistuk.pdf++fuda705&hl=en |
| 23:11.47 | poxy | 63 watts |
| 23:12.13 | poxy | "FUDA705" |
| 23:13.06 | Grumbler | 100w underneath it |
| 23:13.33 | poxy | that site is the only mention of "fuda705" in google's archive |
| 23:14.23 | Grumbler | goto the hitek site |
| 23:15.54 | poxy | wow... maybe i could really order a new one... heh |
| 23:16.21 | *** part/#bzflag DarthValou (~none@80-218-158-23.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 23:18.20 | Grumbler | you said the form factor was ps |
| 23:18.23 | Grumbler | ? |
| 23:18.29 | JeffM2501 | yay the mini now has a respetable amout of ram :) |
| 23:18.39 | poxy | no, it's an open type |
| 23:18.41 | poxy | just a pcb |
| 23:19.01 | poxy | "open frame pcb" |
| 23:19.18 | poxy | http://81.201.129.146/hitek/usa/low-int.asp <-- there shows a picture of what my psu looks like |
| 23:19.50 | poxy | http://81.201.129.146/hitek/pdf/int.pdf |
| 23:20.39 | poxy | hrm mine is a triple output model, and the highest triple output power available |
| 23:22.33 | Grumbler | hmm, it does indicate a voltage adjustment.... |
| 23:23.06 | poxy | huh? |
| 23:23.16 | poxy | it can be adjusted? |
| 23:23.26 | Grumbler | you might be able to tweak a pot and have it work on the edge |
| 23:23.38 | Grumbler | +/- 5% |
| 23:23.39 | poxy | what documents did you use to get this info? |
| 23:23.45 | Grumbler | the pdf |
| 23:24.03 | poxy | i guess that's what "power factor correction" means |
| 23:24.48 | orchid | JeffM2501: how much? |
| 23:25.07 | poxy | oh heh "voltage adjust" -+5% of output ;) |
| 23:25.34 | JeffM2501 | a gig |
| 23:25.54 | orchid | nifty |
| 23:28.12 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:28.13 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (~DTRemenak@DHCP-170-84.caltech.edu) |
| 23:28.20 | poxy | the only thing that looks like a pot in any way says "AI-POT" and doesn't look very adjustable |
| 23:28.32 | JeffM2501 | had to open the thing with a pocket knife, since I can't find the iSpatula |
| 23:29.34 | poxy | JeffM2501: yeah, but your computer doesnt run on 61 watts... so there! |
| 23:29.58 | poxy | and the big computer I have probably uses about 1.5kw/hr |
| 23:31.01 | Grumbler | poxy< it might be a very primitive mechanism.....might even be moving a resistor around.....i would have expected the website to a spec sheet with a diagram of how to adjust |
| 23:31.18 | Grumbler | which basically implies it is probably imprinted on the card |
| 23:32.06 | poxy | do you see a pot in either of those two pictuers? |
| 23:32.09 | JeffM2501 | poxy, no it's very small |
| 23:32.12 | JeffM2501 | fits in my hand |
| 23:32.25 | JeffM2501 | 1.2 gig CPU too |
| 23:32.56 | poxy | if i dont mind my hand being squashed, my proliant 8500 fits in my hand too |
| 23:33.51 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 23:34.05 | JeffM2501 | but can it play Worlds of Warcraft? |
| 23:34.12 | orchid | :) |
| 23:34.22 | poxy | on which one of its cpus would you want it to play it on? 1? 5? 8? |
| 23:34.41 | Grumbler | poxy< http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Power%20One%20Web%20Data/MPB80%20Series.pdf |
| 23:34.45 | JeffM2501 | it runs OSX or windows? |
| 23:34.50 | poxy | freebsd |
| 23:35.03 | JeffM2501 | then no, it dosn't play Worlds of Warcraft |
| 23:35.06 | JeffM2501 | what's it got for video? |
| 23:35.08 | poxy | it could under vmware |
| 23:35.18 | poxy | i dunno, it's a server, not a desktop..what desktop has 8 cpus? |
| 23:35.33 | JeffM2501 | workstation class desktops |
| 23:35.47 | JeffM2501 | used to like build lightmaps |
| 23:35.55 | JeffM2501 | or previs stuff |
| 23:36.49 | JeffM2501 | how much did it cost? |
| 23:36.54 | poxy | 650 |
| 23:37.11 | JeffM2501 | with how many CPUs? |
| 23:37.13 | poxy | 8 |
| 23:37.20 | JeffM2501 | at what speed? |
| 23:37.21 | poxy | 8 550mhz pIII xeon with 1MB cache |
| 23:37.32 | Grumbler | good price |
| 23:37.35 | JeffM2501 | very |
| 23:37.48 | JeffM2501 | the mini has a faster bus tho :) |
| 23:37.56 | poxy | yes, 100mhz is limiting :/ |
| 23:38.03 | JeffM2501 | and woudl beat it at single thread stuff |
| 23:38.07 | poxy | sure would |
| 23:38.09 | Grumbler | http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/Power%20One%20Web%20Data/MAP140%20Series.pdf |
| 23:38.39 | Grumbler | http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Criteria?Ref=273941&Site=US&Cat=32178693 |
| 23:39.40 | Grumbler | i doubt hitek is the only company to make that form factor...although it is possible |
| 23:40.17 | Grumbler | although the 100w'ers are pretty expensive |
| 23:40.29 | poxy | eh? how much? |
| 23:40.38 | Grumbler | 100-200 |
| 23:40.49 | poxy | wow... |
| 23:41.07 | Grumbler | small quantity is a bitch |
| 23:41.13 | Grumbler | err, bad thing |
| 23:42.04 | poxy | thanks for your help |
| 23:44.20 | poxy | heh it says mtbf 180000hrs... that's less than what some hd mfgrs claim |
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| 23:49.16 | *** part/#bzflag |zongo| (~zongo@80-218-158-23.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
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| 23:59.07 | menotume | ~Pimpinella++ |
