irclog2html for #bzflag on 20050718

`00:15.19`	`*** join/#bzflag uso (~uso@84-72-15-104.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`00:18.01`	`*** join/#bzflag EbErT (~EbErT@adsl-219-236-144.asm.bellsouth.net)`
`00:25.19`	`EbErT`	`dtremark, do you know anything about mac bzflag 2.02 having nr sessions`
`00:25.38`	`EbErT`	`i have them, and they last for about 5 to 10 or longer seconds`
`00:26.13`	`DTRemenak`	`EbErT, no idea`
`00:26.35`	`EbErT`	`it isn't the server, and it isn't me`
`00:26.45`	`DTRemenak`	`then what is it? :)`
`00:26.49`	`EbErT`	`i thought there was a problem with the windows version, and it was fixed`
`00:27.00`	`DTRemenak`	`macs do not have that problem`
`00:27.06`	`DTRemenak`	`macs have decent timers :)`
`00:27.10`	`EbErT`	`u sure?`
`00:27.15`	`DTRemenak`	`positive`
`00:27.23`	`EbErT`	`ok then`
`00:27.47`	`DTRemenak`	`and it actually only affected intel-cpu laptops running windows`
`00:27.53`	`EbErT`	`were you one of the ones that yelled for a windowed mode in the mac version before 2.0 came out?`
`00:28.02`	`DTRemenak`	`nope`
`00:28.04`	`EbErT`	`yeah, i heard something like that`
`00:28.15`	`EbErT`	`oh, heh`
`00:28.30`	`EbErT`	`i know i yelled, and i wanted to know who were the ones who did it`
`00:28.42`	`EbErT`	`or others who complained to bricad and others`
`00:29.00`	`DTRemenak`	`you can blame Tupone and brlcad/learner for that`
`00:29.10`	`EbErT`	`ok`
`00:29.24`	`brlcad`	`muahaha`
`00:29.33`	`EbErT`	`there you are`
`00:30.00`	`EbErT`	`i don't know if you remember me bitching about not having a windowed mode for mac, but i thank you for fixing that`
`00:30.10`	`EbErT`	`when 2.0 came out`
`00:30.24`	`brlcad`	`nope, I don't recall to be honest, but yw`
`00:30.32`	`brlcad`	`it was a long requested feature by many`
`00:30.40`	`EbErT`	`yeah, i know\`
`00:30.47`	`EbErT`	`and it was a while ago too`
`00:31.04`	`EbErT`	`it better not be "yeah whateva"`
`00:31.08`	`EbErT`	`:)`
`00:31.14`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`00:31.37`	`brlcad`	`~yw`
`00:31.37`	`ibot`	`it has been said that yw is you're welcome`
`00:31.46`	`DTRemenak`	`pfft, stupid bot ;)`
`00:31.57`	`EbErT`	`yeah, blame the bot`
`00:32.01`	`DTRemenak`	`hehe`
`00:32.12`	`EbErT`	`i just figured out how to use this irc stuff yesterday`
`00:32.23`	`EbErT`	`and put on the #bzflag channel`
`00:34.01`	`EbErT`	`you guys must all talk to eachother in pm i swear`
`00:34.20`	`DTRemenak`	`rarely`
`00:34.28`	`EbErT`	`really?`
`00:34.38`	`DTRemenak`	`mostly we just do other stuff. most of us have an RL too :)`
`00:35.59`	`EbErT`	`but you keep irc on 24 7...`
`00:36.06`	`DTRemenak`	`yup`
`00:36.07`	`EbErT`	`and just let it idle`
`00:36.12`	`DTRemenak`	`yup`
`00:36.23`	`DTRemenak`	`and read the backlog when we return`
`00:37.11`	`brlcad`	`~rl`
`00:37.11`	`ibot`	`rl is probably Real Life (the bad world out there), or known as the Big Blue Box (tm). Conways game using only rational numbers`
`00:37.15`	`brlcad`	`pfft`
`00:38.08`	`DTRemenak`	`hehe`
`00:50.30`	`*** part/#bzflag EbErT (~EbErT@adsl-219-236-144.asm.bellsouth.net)`
`01:05.09`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/ (playing.cxx ScoreboardRenderer.cxx): different coloring for replay observers`
`01:10.10`	`*** join/#bzflag BearPerson (karsten@BearPerson-sustaining-pdpc.sourcemage)`
`01:12.50`	`*** join/#bzflag Legoguy\|L (~Legoguy@68.250.253.78)`
`01:40.29`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar_ (~foo@wegstar.user.allegro)`
`01:53.58`	`*** join/#bzflag Quol (~quol@modemcable040.108-201-24.mc.videotron.ca)`
`02:01.28`	`wegstar`	`hmm.. does ibot have a "player-search" feature?`
`02:03.51`	`*** join/#bzflag bzflag (~18dae8d5@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`02:03.59`	`bzflag`	`hey guys how do you make global logins on a server?`
`02:04.14`	`wegstar`	`...`
`02:04.34`	`trepan`	`the server need to be -public`
`02:04.43`	`bzflag`	`its public`
`02:05.02`	`bzflag`	`what do u do after that?`
`02:05.08`	`trepan`	`then folks with authenticated global logins should get -/+/@ symbols`
`02:05.16`	`trepan`	`nothing, let the good times roll`
`02:05.50`	`trepan`	`bzflag: is it listed on the ServerList ?`
`02:06.46`	`bzflag`	`well when i have it public the lgoball gins stil ldoesnt work`
`02:06.50`	`bzflag`	`*still doesnt`
`02:06.55`	`bzflag`	`server is down right now`
`02:06.59`	`wegstar`	`hehehe`
`02:07.03`	`wegstar`	`windows?`
`02:07.08`	`bzflag`	`yeah`
`02:07.10`	`wegstar`	`:)`
`02:07.23`	`bzflag`	`it doesnt work on windows?`
`02:07.30`	`wegstar`	`nope..`
`02:07.33`	`bzflag`	`o`
`02:07.49`	`wegstar`	`like on 99% of windows computers anyway ;)`
`02:08.00`	`bzflag`	`how come?`
`02:08.09`	`wegstar`	`dunno`
`02:08.27`	`bzflag`	`k`
`02:08.37`	`trepan`	`24.218.232.213, why is that familiar?`
`02:09.07`	`Quol`	`who's IP is that?`
`02:09.20`	`trepan`	`bzflag's`
`02:09.55`	`Quol`	`isn't that just through webchat?`
`02:10.02`	`trepan`	`yup`
`02:10.21`	`Quol`	`does webchat grab the client IP - or is it more of a proxy thing?`
`02:10.22`	`trepan`	`18dae8d5@webchat.bzflag.bz, the hex gives the ip`
`02:12.35`	`Quol`	`how are ya anyway trepan...long time no speak :)`
`02:13.11`	`trepan`	`doing 'bout the same, ca va bien? (excuse the poor french)`
`02:14.53`	`Quol`	`lol - yes, I am ok...haven't played BZ in about a year though, but I try to drop in from time to time when I have the chance`
`02:17.11`	`wegstar`	`:)`
`02:22.01`	`Quol`	`lol`
`02:22.17`	`brlcad`	`mm.. cookie`
`02:22.33`	`Quol`	`hey there ol buddy - what you doing at work?`
`02:22.51`	`brlcad`	`oh, good times`
`02:22.56`	`brlcad`	`getting some code done`
`02:23.26`	`Quol`	`ahh - poor brlcad, all alone coding in the dark late on a sunday night...`
`02:23.51`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`02:23.59`	`brlcad`	`rarely a better way to code`
`02:24.35`	`Quol`	`I guess that's true..you sleeping there these days...`
`02:24.38`	`brlcad`	`beer, with beer can be better`
`02:25.23`	`Quol`	`depends on how much beer - after a few too many I immagine thhatt theree woulddd be tooo manny typpoes`
`02:25.24`	`brlcad`	`just changed offices recently`
`02:25.42`	`brlcad`	`coworker and I took a trip down to ikea and bought a bed/mattress`
`02:25.58`	`Quol`	`the bed is in the office?`
`02:26.02`	`brlcad`	`yup :)`
`02:26.12`	`Quol`	`ohh boy - that's a bad sign :)`
`02:26.14`	`brlcad`	`we were going to get a futon, but there were "problems"`
`02:26.23`	`Quol`	`lol`
`02:26.37`	`Quol`	`futon = problems anyways, I hated those things...`
`02:26.38`	`brlcad`	`just easier to get a bed, so we did :)`
`02:27.00`	`trepan`	`brlcad: the brass thought "futon" sounded too foreign, homeland security and all?`
`02:27.30`	`brlcad`	`heh, nah -- more practical/logistical problems.. small one was too uncomfortable, larger one was .. too large`
`02:27.39`	`Quol`	`futon - you mean freedom coutch :)`
`02:28.18`	`brlcad`	`probably/might still get a couple huge bean bags too`
`02:28.28`	`Quol`	`you guys down there still refering to french fries as freedom fries? or is that all over with`
`02:28.30`	`Quol`	`?`
`02:28.36`	`brlcad`	`good for reading the next research paper`
`02:29.17`	`orange`	`but we do like to watch the tour day france`
`02:29.35`	`Quol`	`hehe`
`02:29.35`	`brlcad`	`we do`
`02:29.44`	`Aribeth`	`hiya orange`
`02:29.45`	`Quol`	`how are ya oragne?`
`02:30.08`	`brlcad`	`so how's work for you these days?`
`02:30.11`	`Quol`	`sorry to butcher your name like that orange :)`
`02:30.19`	`orange`	`hehe, good, long time no see Quol`
`02:30.28`	`orange`	`howdy Aribeth, brlcad`
`02:30.32`	`Quol`	`ya - no kidding...`
`02:30.36`	`Quol`	`brlcad: me?`
`02:30.49`	`Aribeth`	`hi brlcad, Quol`
`02:30.56`	`Quol`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:31.03`	`brlcad`	`anyone would qualify given how I wrote it, but yeah< I did mean the Q :)`
`02:31.39`	`brlcad`	`howdy orangy aribethy`
`02:32.07`	`Quol`	`hehe - just checking....ya - work is OK...this job is what I need right now`
`02:32.52`	`Quol`	`it's just a "joe job", nothing special. They hired me for my services, but that's where it ends, there is no "ownership" or sense of loyalty - OK for now`
`02:33.48`	`Quol`	`enough to heal from my .com burnout - my wife loves the job, and it has allowed me to spend MUCH more time with my family - and that's what counts`
`02:34.01`	`brlcad`	`isn't that generally how it goes right before the "..." -> "profit" steps? :)`
`02:35.03`	`Quol`	`:)`
`02:35.42`	`Quol`	`I actually have been spending lots of time camping - I bought a tent trailer, and every weekend we have gone as a family together`
`02:36.54`	`brlcad`	`that's gotta be nice`
`02:37.31`	`brlcad`	`i've been spending a lot of time working out lately too, not all work and no play for this jack ;)`
`02:38.15`	`Quol`	`that's important :)`
`02:38.29`	`Quol`	`http://www.fleetwoodrv.com/brandtomodel/vrtour.aspx?tour=05victoryvr.jpg&ref=/americana/Default.aspx&slide=1&brand=americana`
`02:38.34`	`Quol`	`that's the one I bought`
`02:39.17`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (~benurban@pcp07709741pcs.nrockv01.md.comcast.net)`
`02:39.36`	`brlcad`	`wow, that's pretty big`
`02:39.57`	`brlcad`	`where's the computer go?`
`02:40.03`	`Quol`	`it's not bad....my wife and I like the king size bed at the front :)`
`02:40.07`	`Quol`	`lol`
`02:40.15`	`Quol`	`if only whe would let me install one`
`02:40.21`	`brlcad`	`hehe`
`02:40.22`	`Quol`	`but then that's why laptops were inventer`
`02:40.37`	`Quol`	`invented I mean :)`
`02:40.57`	`brlcad`	`could always rip out the stove and put a nice big flat panel there`
`02:41.28`	`brlcad`	`:)`
`02:41.33`	`Quol`	`no - there are no computers allowed on family vacations, I have actually unplugged myself a great deal these days (which explains my absense from here these last months)`
`02:41.39`	`brlcad`	`i mean .. you are camping.. you can start a fire pretty much anywhere :)`
`02:41.47`	`Quol`	`lol`
`02:41.53`	`Quol`	`I like your thinking`
`02:41.56`	`Quol`	`:)`
`02:42.14`	`brlcad`	`somehow i doubt your wife would appreciate my thinking :)`
`02:42.51`	`Quol`	`you are right about that - she would chuckle though`
`02:43.06`	`Quol`	`something along the lines of "you geeks and your toys..."`
`02:43.55`	`Quol`	`what I would have to do is try and get Xboxes for the boys...then I could run linux on one of them and use that one :)`
`02:45.05`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/data/radar.png: better indication of possible jumps heights, grey 0 level`
`02:45.11`	`Quol`	`then invent some high speed internet access through a cell phone - that was affordable, and away I would go :)`
`02:46.55`	`brlcad`	`hehe`
`02:51.42`	`*** join/#bzflag SportyGal (~sc@249.sub-70-209-0.myvzw.com)`
`02:51.46`	`SportyGal`	`q`
`02:52.16`	`Aribeth`	`hiya Sporty`
`02:52.28`	`SportyGal`	`hi ari`
`02:52.43`	`bryjen`	`there's satellite for remote bandwith, but no BZ that-a-way`
`02:52.43`	`Quol`	`SportyGal = sportchick?`
`02:53.00`	`SportyGal`	`has there been anymore discussuin on the antiban problems?`
`02:53.06`	`SportyGal`	`quol: yes`
`02:53.07`	`bryjen`	`s/bandwith/bandwidth/`
`02:53.30`	`Quol`	`hehe - I see the beers are paying off already brlcad`
`02:53.32`	`Quol`	`:)`
`02:54.16`	`SportyGal`	`hiya quol - long time no see.`
`02:54.28`	`SportyGal`	`I miss your servers`
`02:56.25`	`Quol`	`SportyGal: ya, I just don't have the time anymore...sorry :)`
`02:56.59`	`Quol`	`I think he fell asleep on his new "office bed"`
`02:57.05`	`SportyGal`	`quol: no worries. it was fun while it lasted`
`02:57.11`	`SportyGal`	`hehe`
`02:57.18`	`Quol`	`yes indeed SportyGal...was nice`
`02:57.56`	`SportyGal`	`will someone try pming me - I want to see what happens on this client`
`02:58.18`	`SportyGal`	`if I don't respond let me know u did it already`
`02:58.44`	`bryjen`	`can you hear me now?`
`02:58.56`	`SportyGal`	`yes now`
`02:59.12`	`Aribeth`	`i just pm'd you Sporty`
`02:59.43`	`SportyGal`	`I guess I cannot see pms. do you get any errors?`
`02:59.50`	`bryjen`	`nope`
`02:59.52`	`Aribeth`	`no`
`02:59.55`	`SportyGal`	`darn`
`03:00.32`	`SportyGal`	`I need to find a new client for my phone, I guess. this one is too primitive`
`03:01.24`	`SportyGal`	`ty for trying`
`03:03.24`	`*** join/#bzflag SportyGal (~sc@249.sub-70-209-0.myvzw.com)`
`03:03.39`	`SportyGal`	`oops - hit wrong key`
`03:04.23`	`SportyGal`	`~Aribeth++`
`03:04.38`	`Aribeth`	`:)`
`03:05.06`	`SportyGal`	`~bryjen++`
`03:07.40`	`SportyGal`	`who wrote the antiban stuff?`
`03:09.28`	`bryjen`	`Tupone, menotume, whoever else is looking at antiban: hostbans are not checked until after player.needsHostbanChecked() is true, which is set in ListServerLink::finalization after auth completes or in GameKeeper::Player::loadEnterData if no token was received`
`03:10.53`	`SportyGal`	`here's my issue...and I just realized I don't know for sure which is happening:`
`03:11.24`	`wegstar`	`~seen brad2901`
`03:11.24`	`ibot`	`brad2901 is currently on #botpark #bzflag #bzleague. Has said a total of 14 messages. Is idling for 6h 35m 1s`
`03:11.28`	`SportyGal`	`antiban is only working part of the time.`
`03:12.13`	`SportyGal`	`I am not sure if it is a global/local problem or a hostban/ipban issue`
`03:12.52`	`bryjen`	`i don't think the current code will let it work against a numeric IP address ban`
`03:13.11`	`bryjen`	`hostname based bans should be OK`
`03:14.13`	`SportyGal`	`I know that a antiban against masterbanlist is ok (agst spoogebob), but I do not know if his is hostban or ip range`
`03:15.21`	`SportyGal`	`bryjen: is there a reason it cannot be made to work w/ ip # ban? it was ways my understanding it could`
`03:15.38`	`bryjen`	`the master bans are all single IP address bans, to avoid blanket banning`
`03:16.36`	`SportyGal`	`antiban is working w that ok then. maybe its a global/local issue`
`03:17.20`	`bryjen`	`It's not that it can't be done. There's code that look like someone was trying to do it -- but it doesn't take into account that user info from the central registrations may not be available right away`
`03:17.33`	`SportyGal`	`which maybe why I didn't understand what tupone was talking about earlier`
`03:17.39`	`SportyGal`	`ah,ok`
`03:19.34`	`bryjen`	`i doubt anyone would need antiban to get around the master list. even if they're on the same ISP, they'd have to someone get assigned the same 1 address that the bad guy was using when they were banned`
`03:19.58`	`bryjen`	`erg, to someHOW get assigned`
`03:20.40`	`bryjen`	`not to say that can't happen, just with it being 1 address, the odds are low`
`03:21.25`	`*** join/#bzflag ep (~ep@ip68-97-122-98.ok.ok.cox.net)`
`03:22.08`	`SportyGal`	`I think the issue is ip or ip/range bans that occur locally - becuz of course the antiban privileges are assigned locally too`
`03:23.52`	`SportyGal`	`also, I thought the spoogebob ban was a hostban - narrow, but host. is that not true`
`03:24.50`	`bryjen`	`http://www.bzflag.org/master-bans.txt does not mention him, so i dunno`
`03:25.02`	`bryjen`	`if its something local to secretplace`
`03:26.44`	`SportyGal`	`spoogebob? i'm 99.99999 % sure he's in global. I cannot check it from here,but when I get home...`
`03:27.02`	`bryjen`	`that http link is the global list`
`03:27.12`	`SportyGal`	`I know`
`03:27.43`	`SportyGal`	`but if I try to go there, my phone will dump me out of irc`
`03:27.46`	`bryjen`	`oh, duh. spiffy-irc-cell-phone-girlie ;P`
`03:27.56`	`SportyGal`	`hehe`
`03:28.14`	`SportyGal`	`not so spiffy, obviously`
`03:28.27`	`SportyGal`	`tho I can run bzadmin!`
`03:28.33`	`bryjen`	`i've got a *.hostname ban on my server for him. but that's just me.`
`03:29.46`	`SportyGal`	`like I said... I can check at home...`
`03:31.48`	`SportyGal`	`no hostbans at all in masterbanlist?`
`03:32.04`	`bryjen`	`nope`
`03:32.05`	`brlcad`	`not supposed to be`
`03:32.22`	`SportyGal`	`brlcad is alive!!`
`03:32.51`	`brlcad`	`:)`
`03:33.01`	`SportyGal`	`he lives again!`
`03:33.37`	`SportyGal`	`so, if that's the case, i'm back to my initial issue`
`03:34.33`	`SportyGal`	`it's a problem for ip/ip-range bans done locally (and maybe globally) but works fine for hostbans`
`03:35.05`	`brlcad`	`what's the problem?`
`03:35.46`	`Quol`	`well all - time for me to go - wee you all later..`
`03:35.54`	`Quol`	`wee -see :)`
`03:36.01`	`SportyGal`	`bye quol`
`03:36.04`	`brlcad`	`cya quol`
`03:36.07`	`Aribeth`	`bye Quol`
`03:36.27`	`brlcad`	`sorry sportygal.. only glancing at log snippets`
`03:36.28`	`SportyGal`	`antiban does not work properly for ip/ip-range bans`
`03:36.46`	`bryjen`	`brlcad: the antiban permission. i'm pretty sure it's mishandled for ip address bans. the check needs to be postponed until after user info has been retrieved from the list server (like hostbans are)`
`03:36.54`	`SportyGal`	`np - I just can't type very fast w my thumbs`
`03:37.09`	`brlcad`	`hmm`
`03:37.44`	`brlcad`	`the problem with that is that the user can be rejected before they fully attach to bzfs`
`03:38.04`	`SportyGal`	`:(`
`03:38.15`	`brlcad`	`i.e. they are kicked well before anything with list server comes into play`
`03:38.16`	`bryjen`	`yeah, it leaves a window where a banned player can be allowed for a few seconds`
`03:38.57`	`brlcad`	`actually, should cause the opposite -- they'd get kicked`
`03:39.07`	`brlcad`	`when they should have been protected`
`03:39.34`	`brlcad`	`unless bans ahve completely changed`
`03:39.35`	`bryjen`	`oh, yeah, you're talking about ip bans, i'm talking about hostbans`
`03:40.13`	`brlcad`	`you said that antiban was mishandled for ip bans :)`
`03:40.20`	`brlcad`	`maybe mishandled for hostbans?`
`03:40.28`	`brlcad`	`that i'd buy`
`03:40.40`	`SportyGal`	`no it is fine dor hostbans`
`03:40.59`	`SportyGal`	`at least, it works`
`03:41.04`	`bryjen`	`that too`
`03:41.40`	`brlcad`	`interesting.. antiban entry for a hostbanned player works .. is that with an ip antiban or a hostban antiban?`
`03:41.51`	`bryjen`	`currently, ip bans are checked very soon. no waiting for central auth to complete so that antiban can be applied properly`
`03:42.03`	`brlcad`	`right`
`03:43.03`	`SportyGal`	`one second- almost home`
`03:43.26`	`bryjen`	`hostbans use a flag to delay the check, if there is no token recieved - flag is set, check is done; else wait for token to be ack/nacked (and groups/perms applied)- set the flag, check is done`
`03:43.50`	`brlcad`	`antiban shouldn't be tied to auth since it's address-based, not player-based`
`03:44.23`	`bryjen`	`in the hostban scenerio, there's a window for a banned player get in for a brief time`
`03:44.30`	`brlcad`	`sounds like there needs to be an antiban protection check in the hostban section too then`
`03:44.55`	`bryjen`	`antiban is a player-based override for address/hostname bans`
`03:45.21`	`brlcad`	`bah, yeah now I remember sorry`
`03:45.40`	`brlcad`	`it is player-based since it's a perm, duh`
`03:46.58`	`*** join/#bzflag SportChick (~SportChic@ca-redbch-cuda1-c3b-a-40.stmnca.adelphia.net)`
`03:47.05`	`SportChick`	`whew`
`03:47.07`	`SportChick`	`much better/faster`
`03:47.26`	`SportChick`	`hi`
`03:47.28`	`SportChick`	`you guys there?`
`03:47.31`	`bryjen`	`i think it worked before because player info was local, so there was no need to wait`
`03:47.57`	`brlcad`	`yeah, that would be`
`03:47.59`	`SportChick`	`so I'm not sure about for everyone, but secretplace IS running an antiban that works with hostbanning`
`03:48.10`	`SportChick`	`is that a patch or the same for all?`
`03:48.17`	`bryjen`	`the waiting does introduce a hole in the bans`
`03:48.18`	`brlcad`	`still need to/can check local since that's where it will be for non-global authings`
`03:48.48`	`bryjen`	`SportChick: antibans against host _names_ should work`
`03:48.58`	`SportChick`	`bryjen: yes, they do`
`03:49.17`	`SportChick`	`it's the antibans for a single IP address or a range of ip addresses (using numbers rather than hosts) that does not work`
`03:49.25`	`bryjen`	`good. then i'm right about _something_ at least ;)`
`03:49.42`	`SportChick`	`s/bakc/back`
`03:50.22`	`bryjen`	`yes, the numeric bans don't seem to allow for the delay fetching permissions from central auth`
`03:53.25`	`bryjen`	`or more exactly, fetching group memberships from central auth (which are then used to associate permissions)`
`03:54.07`	`brlcad`	`could just require admins to add local antibans`
`03:54.21`	`brlcad`	`since they are special regardless`
`03:54.39`	`bryjen`	`yeah. account needing antiban against IP bans would have to be local accounts`
`03:55.11`	`brlcad`	`or have bzfs cache the global antibans`
`03:55.55`	`brlcad`	`maintain the antiban cache in the ban file or something`
`03:56.32`	`SportChick`	`how would that work?`
`03:56.34`	`brlcad`	`SportyGal: a local group or a global group?`
`03:56.39`	`SportChick`	`global group`
`03:56.49`	`brlcad`	`that's why`
`03:56.54`	`SportChick`	`I know`
`03:57.03`	`SportChick`	`we use no local groups anymore`
`03:57.08`	`SportChick`	`all perms are done globalyy`
`03:57.37`	`bryjen`	`even so, the local permissions are associated to global groups in the server's groupdb file`
`03:57.52`	`brlcad`	`one of the many reasons I'm not a fan of global-only server config'ing ..`
`03:57.59`	`bryjen`	`the list server know only users and groups, it doesn't hand out perms`
`03:58.41`	`brlcad`	`yeah, same end effect though`
`03:59.06`	`brlcad`	`the perms could be anywhere after that`
`03:59.26`	`brlcad`	`only reason they're not on bzbb is that it would have required someone actually do some bzbb work :)`
`03:59.41`	`brlcad`	`to add the perm management interface/module/whatever`
`03:59.57`	`bryjen`	`no, its so different servers can assign different perms to the same group.`
`04:00.28`	`brlcad`	`that too, but that could just of well all been done through bzbb`
`04:00.55`	`SportChick`	`actually our user group is ON bzbb`
`04:01.02`	`SportChick`	`(the one that has the antiban perms)`
`04:01.15`	`brlcad`	`SportChick: yeah, we're referring to the perms`
`04:01.38`	`SportChick`	`ok`
`04:01.45`	`SportChick`	`brb`
`04:01.52`	`bryjen`	`yes, the group itself and its list of members in on bzbb, but it's the bz server's local group file that says what perms that group has on that bz server`
`04:01.58`	`bryjen`	`bah`
`04:03.03`	`brlcad`	`probably the best solution that wouldn't open up any holes would be the periodic group/perm caching/updating`
`04:03.34`	`bryjen`	`the current design isn't just "bad". but it's been done patchwork, and is a little buggy for it ;)`
`04:03.56`	`brlcad`	`yep`
`04:04.47`	`*** join/#bzflag Pimpi (~frank@p548192CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`04:04.49`	`*** join/#bzflag SportChick (~SportChic@ca-redbch-cuda1-c3b-a-40.stmnca.adelphia.net)`
`04:04.53`	`bryjen`	`heh. "design"`
`04:05.10`	`bryjen`	`that sounds too much like a plan or something ;)`
`04:05.29`	`brlcad`	`not gonna happen anytime soon for this project methinks`
`04:05.55`	`bryjen`	`TimRiker is aptly titled "Maintainer"`
`04:06.59`	`bryjen`	`as opposed to "Project Leader"`
`04:07.04`	`brlcad`	`yeah`
`04:07.31`	`brlcad`	`otherwise one might argue that he should be providing a vision and plan, goals, etc.. cough`
`04:14.28`	`*** part/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@2002:45a6:86ae:0:0:0:0:1)`
`04:32.28`	`*** join/#bzflag triclops_ (~triclops@c220-239-40-45.rivrw7.nsw.optusnet.com.au)`
`05:01.05`	`Pimpi`	`<PROTECTED>`
`05:01.06`	`ibot`	`log is probably as piece of wood`
`05:01.22`	`Aribeth`	`heh`
`05:01.51`	`SportChick`	`:)`
`05:02.02`	`Aribeth`	`log by Blamo`
`05:02.19`	`Pimpi`	`anyone remembering the channellog url?`
`05:02.19`	`Aribeth`	`g'night Sporty`
`05:03.18`	`Aribeth`	`ntkx`
`05:03.26`	`Aribeth`	`oops`
`05:03.42`	`Aribeth`	`wrong window :)`
`05:04.31`	`Pimpi`	`k, found it`
`06:01.09`	`*** join/#bzflag Punkus (~chris@222.153.210.20)`
`06:14.58`	`trepan`	`just to give yaz warning, baddmove (aka wiccanrepublic) plans on shutting down bzbb ;)`
`06:15.28`	`trepan`	`http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=43153#43153`
`06:22.16`	`trepan`	`<PROTECTED>`
`06:22.16`	`trepan`	`<PROTECTED>`
`06:22.16`	`trepan`	`<PROTECTED>`
`06:22.16`	`trepan`	`<PROTECTED>`
`06:22.17`	`trepan`	`<PROTECTED>`
`06:22.34`	`brlcad`	`heh, er, yeah :)`
`06:23.04`	`trepan`	`just finished watching the holy grail, couldn't help myself`
`06:33.48`	`purple_cow`	`eegh. this is the most bizzare sunburn I've ever had`
`06:33.58`	`purple_cow`	`it keeps changing color from a darkish tan to bright red`
`06:39.41`	`*** join/#bzflag brad2901 (brad@ACC84142.ipt.aol.com)`
`06:44.15`	`*** join/#bzflag creeperz (~Meatwad@host-57-142-230-24.midco.net)`
`06:46.27`	`*** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@p54B023C5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`07:09.55`	`*** join/#bzflag learner (~brlcad@brlcad.bronze.supporter.pdpc)`
`07:09.55`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o learner] by ChanServ`
`07:15.19`	`*** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net)`
`07:41.23`	`*** join/#bzflag CBG (~CBG@cpc2-stme1-5-1-cust173.cdif.cable.ntl.com)`
`07:41.59`	`CBG`	`bb admins: more foreign spam: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=4401`
`07:46.32`	`CBG`	`what kind of a question is that?`
`07:46.35`	`*** join/#bzflag newbie_dont (~newbie_do@fw.newitech.pl)`
`07:46.50`	`CBG`	`(yes I know it wasnt actually a question, but thats whats it sounded like)`
`07:47.04`	`CBG`	`(yes I know its text and it didnt sound - it LOOKED.....)`
`07:47.33`	`CBG`	`of course not. I don't have a life. I spend 12 hours a day on that forum...`
`07:48.18`	`learner`	`hmm, i figured at least 14 hours .. go figure`
`07:48.22`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx: too much cyan`
`07:48.24`	`trepan`	`do you read _really_ slowly ?`
`07:48.33`	`trepan`	`the just isn't that much content`
`07:49.07`	`CBG`	`No. I just keep looking for new posts.`
`07:49.15`	`trepan`	`averages out to about 2 words/day (on the outside) if you remove all of the fluff`
`07:49.24`	`CBG`	`and when I have read them all, I go back to the "find new posts"`
`07:49.34`	`CBG`	`and keep clicking that untill there is something ney.`
`07:49.38`	`CBG`	`*new`
`07:50.06`	`trepan`	`how much would you pay for a script that'd do the clicking for ya?`
`07:50.19`	`CBG`	`learner: geez man, I need 9 hours sleep, and 3hours for stuff like feeding the cat, cleaning up, EATING... i'm not a robot. :P`
`07:50.20`	`learner`	`2 words/day eh? hmm. not when I'm posting, but then I guess that's why I don't post that much any more :)`
`07:50.21`	`*** join/#bzflag ToughShooter_ (~ts@p54B010C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`07:50.33`	`CBG`	`trepan: $250, tops.`
`07:50.52`	`CBG`	`I am replying to your post on language now learner`
`07:52.00`	`learner`	`my post wasn't so much about language as it was about filtering`
`07:52.06`	`CBG`	`besides, purple_cow : would you rather have to do it your self?`
`07:52.16`	`CBG`	`learner: yes. so was mine.`
`07:52.44`	`purple_cow`	`CBG: i'm just a little surprised at how you're the first one to notice every time`
`07:52.44`	`CBG`	`don't you mean you couldn't care less...?`
`07:52.59`	`learner`	`no, i could care a little less still`
`07:53.09`	`CBG`	`purple_cow: Not everytime... I heard JeffM and DTR say that that stuff is posted almost everyday...`
`07:53.15`	`CBG`	`and its been going for a month or so now.`
`07:53.24`	`CBG`	`I have spotted it maybe 5/6 times...`
`07:53.50`	`learner`	`which in a month corresponds to 25/30 times`
`07:53.59`	`CBG`	`purple_cow: nothing? the bb is nothing?`
`07:54.15`	`purple_cow`	`yep`
`07:54.27`	`CBG`	`if you insist....`
`07:54.34`	`CBG`	`but thats just your opinion.`
`07:54.36`	`DTRemenak`	`CBG: definately not everyday. two or three times a week maybe`
`07:54.38`	`CBG`	`btw: when is jeff back?`
`07:54.54`	`CBG`	`Well, that still means I dont notice them all, eh DTRemenak. ?`
`07:55.05`	`DTRemenak`	`that it does`
`07:55.30`	`CBG`	`Can you say Piss, on the bb?`
`07:55.51`	`CBG`	`Well, this guy just did: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=4546&highlight=`
`07:56.22`	`CBG`	`nevermid. I see learner already got to it.`
`07:56.36`	`CBG`	`and eddited out lots of stuf EXCEPT piss. so it must be ok. :)`
`07:57.00`	`DTRemenak`	`I'd think "buttholelicker" would be more offensive than "piss" anyway ;)`
`07:57.17`	`CBG`	`except its not a word.`
`07:57.23`	`CBG`	`just like FECK is not a word.`
`07:57.56`	`learner`	`CBG, I populated the vast majority of the current entries in the multilingual swear list`
`07:58.35`	`purple_cow`	`DTRemenak: it's "buutholelicker" ;)`
`07:58.36`	`CBG`	`You "populated"?`
`07:58.45`	`DTRemenak`	`oh sorry :)`
`07:58.50`	`CBG`	`which is even less of a word. :P`
`07:59.02`	`purple_cow`	`populated is too a word!`
`07:59.24`	`trepan`	`~dict populated`
`07:59.37`	`CBG`	`I meant buutholelicker is not a word. ....`
`07:59.45`	`CBG`	`populated is a word, but seems out of context.`
`08:01.27`	`CBG`	`learner: you mean, you though up most of the swear words for the multilingual list?`
`08:01.28`	`learner`	`i don't recall whether there's a length limit concerning whether s*!t should be getting filtered by default`
`08:01.32`	`CBG`	`*thought :/`
`08:01.49`	`learner`	`the limit might be > 4 chars and > 50%, I'd have to rtfs`
`08:01.58`	`CBG`	`suck gets filtered`
`08:02.01`	`CBG`	`shit doesn't`
`08:02.08`	`purple_cow`	`yow`
`08:02.17`	`learner`	`that's most likely some multilingual word matching like I mentioned in my post`
`08:02.36`	`CBG`	`ugh`
`08:02.50`	`learner`	`suck that is`
`08:02.51`	`CBG`	`is english not your first language learner?`
`08:03.15`	`_Manu_`	`k`
`08:03.16`	`learner`	`qu�?`
`08:03.32`	`purple_cow`	`naw, learner's a native english speaker, he's just a little slow sometimes :)`
`08:03.37`	`_Manu_`	`his first language is the spanish`
`08:03.57`	`CBG`	`(incompatible encoding) learner :P`
`08:04.21`	`learner`	`a failure of your client, not mine`
`08:04.24`	`_Manu_`	`CBG, i can read it properly..`
`08:04.40`	`CBG`	`then I guess Colloquy sucks. :P`
`08:04.40`	`_Manu_`	`but he forgot the � ;)`
`08:04.45`	`learner`	`:)`
`08:04.47`	`CBG`	`or would you rather I said it was shit?`
`08:04.47`	`_Manu_`	`�qu�?`
`08:04.58`	`CBG`	`(incompatible encoding) !!!!`
`08:05.01`	`CBG`	`lol`
`08:05.45`	`_Manu_`	`CBG, you forgot the F -> shift`
`08:05.46`	`learner`	`CBG, no, but you should have been clear that you are talking about that word as opposed to those exact letters that you typed (and repeated exactly)`
`08:05.48`	`_Manu_`	`:`
`08:05.49`	`_Manu_`	`:)`
`08:05.58`	`*** join/#bzflag jomojo (~jomojo@c-24-17-68-130.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`08:06.09`	`CBG`	`learner: little kids read the boards...`
`08:06.23`	`learner`	`is this supposed to be news to me?`
`08:06.35`	`CBG`	`no. but I won't swear on that board.`
`08:06.42`	`learner`	`i didn't say write the word, I said you should have been more clear what you meant`
`08:07.21`	`CBG`	`well, can you see what I mean now?`
`08:08.53`	`learner`	`i'll let you take an educated guess on that one`
`08:09.54`	`CBG`	`educated? hehe!`
`08:10.02`	`CBG`	`you may have to wait some years...`
`08:10.15`	`learner`	`have you even see the default list of swear words?`
`08:11.13`	`CBG`	`Nope.`
`08:13.00`	`*** part/#bzflag Punkus (~chris@222.153.210.20)`
`08:13.34`	`learner`	`then it's mighty presumptuous of you to assume anything about what the list should and should not be filtering`
`08:13.54`	`learner`	`the server operators can customize them entirely as well`
`08:13.54`	`purple_cow`	`now let's play the "who wants to buy purple_cow a bicycle seat" game`
`08:14.05`	`CBG`	`learner: ok. :)`
`08:14.16`	`learner`	`whether or not the gu operator added/removed words is also in question`
`08:14.24`	`learner`	`purple_cow, what kind?`
`08:14.32`	`purple_cow`	`http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=18504&subcategory_ID=5210`
`08:14.52`	`CBG`	`I will take it up with GU. But maybe they haven't edited it and it _is_ the error of the default mulitligual list... shock horror`
`08:14.54`	`_Manu_`	`CBG, we are filtering at viper the word you said`
`08:14.59`	`_Manu_`	`and others`
`08:15.13`	`CBG`	`using the default multiligual list?`
`08:15.15`	`learner`	`hey, that looks like my racing saddle`
`08:15.25`	`_Manu_`	`no, enhanced multilingual :)`
`08:15.48`	`purple_cow`	`learner: heh, cool :)`
`08:16.12`	`learner`	`i pulled it off my bike, though .. real pita for long rides`
`08:19.21`	`learner`	`cbg, like I said, there are a variety of known bugs for very specific cases, but on the default list that word should filter just fine`
`08:19.47`	`learner`	`if you think it's an error in the default list.. then look yourself and see if you can find it`
`08:20.15`	`learner`	`purple_cow, how far are you planning on riding and what surface?`
`08:21.21`	`purple_cow`	`learner: well, i generally go anywhere from 3-60 miles, on a variety of roads`
`08:21.24`	`_Manu_`	`learner, spanish zurar is really zurrar... :)`
`08:22.03`	`learner`	`_Manu_: gotta read the preface instructions :) .. letter repetitions are automatically matched`
`08:22.18`	`learner`	`so zurar matches zurrar and zurrrrar, etc`
`08:22.19`	`_Manu_`	`yes yes.. but it's zurrar ;)`
`08:22.35`	`learner`	`it's meant to catch misspellings`
`08:22.37`	`CBG`	`learner. ok :)`
`08:22.48`	`_Manu_`	`and caray is not a swear :)`
`08:22.57`	`_Manu_`	`at last in Spain`
`08:23.02`	`learner`	`_Manu_: depends where you live :)`
`08:23.10`	`purple_cow`	`there are probably some cheaper changes i should make before splurging on a seat though`
`08:23.27`	`_Manu_`	`nowhere in Spain for sure`
`08:23.31`	`learner`	`spanish is worse than most for having words that are swears in one country and completely acceptable in another`
`08:23.52`	`learner`	`purple_cow, I'd suggest not dumping 300 on a seat =)`
`08:24.02`	`purple_cow`	`learner: yeah, i'm aiming more for about 100 ;)`
`08:24.05`	`_Manu_`	`heh`
`08:24.08`	`learner`	`there are perfectly comfortable performance seats for < 100`
`08:24.32`	`learner`	`I'd aim for 40-60 on-line, maybe double retail`
`08:24.36`	`purple_cow`	`i was just surprised and a little frightened that it's possible to spend 300`
`08:25.26`	`purple_cow`	`i'm afraid to ask...`
`08:28.22`	`learner`	`pants`
`08:28.24`	`learner`	`that's where you shouldn't skimp`
`08:28.32`	`purple_cow`	`hehe`
`08:28.41`	`learner`	`the cheap ones really are crap`
`08:30.21`	`Pimpi`	`trepan: still offering a cookie? 24.218.232.213 is redsoxfan90`
`08:30.23`	`Pimpi`	`;)`
`08:30.33`	`learner`	`heh`
`08:30.36`	`_Manu_`	`moin Pimpi`
`08:31.24`	`CBG`	`Cookies? Who got cookies? WHere?`
`08:31.59`	`_Manu_`	`Pimpi, I set _endShotDetection 3 to vipers, for minimizing the cheaters impact :(`
`08:32.03`	`CBG`	`Pimpi: redsoxfan90 == 2shot == unbanned on GU. He suppossedly completely changed...`
`08:32.21`	`Pimpi`	`yeah`
`08:32.38`	`Pimpi`	`hi _Manu_ and * :)`
`08:32.50`	`learner`	`purple_cow, for what it's worth, here's the saddle I mostly use (and am very happy with) now http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=10112`
`08:32.58`	`Pimpi`	`_Manu_: yeah, i read your private`
`08:33.16`	`_Manu_`	`Pimpi, I missed it :)`
`08:33.36`	`*** join/#bzflag Tegan (~lyra@eacb02-00-cmmgga-70-34-176-23.atlaga.adelphia.net)`
`08:33.42`	`ruskie`	`hmmm`
`08:33.46`	`_Manu_`	`antiCheat is working fine.. but better kicking them quick`
`08:34.44`	`*** join/#bzflag tango_ (~nome@host120-184.pool8255.interbusiness.it)`
`08:35.00`	`Pimpi`	`CBG: i alwys thought that redsox was just a kid searching for attention`
`08:35.07`	`CBG`	`Ditto.`
`08:35.14`	`trepan`	`Pimpi: thx, knew that looked familiar`
`08:35.25`	`Pimpi`	`thats why i always gave him a new chande every once in a while`
`08:35.30`	`CBG`	`People making a "cool group" for people who hate redsox, wasn't helping either.`
`08:35.36`	`trepan`	`cookie is being kept at the Starbucks on Elgin St., in Ottawa`
`08:36.05`	`CBG`	`I always treated him like anyone else. It was (suprisingly, maybe...) people like Mikk, brad2901, etc who were mean to him.`
`08:36.05`	`Pimpi`	`;)`
`08:37.44`	`trepan`	`heh, i looked at the masterban list, but forgot that Jeff gave him a reprieve`
`08:46.47`	`_Manu_`	`CBG, one new post ;)`
`08:46.54`	`CBG`	`:o`
`08:47.28`	`CBG`	`Make it an option pleeeaassee!`
`08:48.00`	`_Manu_`	`if you want to be observer.. you simply select observer before join ;)`
`08:48.18`	`_Manu_`	`others are in the queue`
`08:48.40`	`CBG`	`What if you wanted to play, but there was no room, so you became an observer, but then changed your mind and wanted to stay as observer? You have to rejoin?`
`08:49.05`	`_Manu_`	`yes, you become observer but waiting in the queue for the selected team`
`08:49.17`	`_Manu_`	`so automatic join`
`08:49.18`	`ruskie`	`_Manu_, it should be an optional thing`
`08:49.30`	`_Manu_`	`no need to be optional`
`08:49.37`	`CBG`	`Maybe after you become an observer, you decide you want to stay as observer... how do you get out of the queue?`
`08:49.42`	`_Manu_`	`if you simply want to observer.. select observer`
`08:49.56`	`_Manu_`	`observers not join..`
`08:50.04`	`CBG`	`what if you CHANGE your mind.... - i am fickle!`
`08:50.17`	`ruskie`	`I sometimes go to play but get observer spot then I notice that a lot of stuff is happening that needs my attention and decide against going to play...`
`08:50.18`	`_Manu_`	`for example.. you want to play in red.. you select red at the menu options. .and join`
`08:50.35`	`_Manu_`	`then no free slot for reds.. you are moving to reds queue and waiting as observer`
`08:50.54`	`CBG`	`_Manu_ Listen!`
`08:50.54`	`_Manu_`	`but when a red leave.. if it's your turn.. you are moved to read team`
`08:51.01`	`ruskie`	`bad...`
`08:51.28`	`_Manu_`	`and if you are observer and want to play.. just /join red\|green,...`
`08:51.39`	`_Manu_`	`that's what I'm doing now`
`08:51.46`	`CBG`	`Imagine, you want to be red, but you cant. So it makes you observer. THEN you start talking, to people, or you are an admin doing stuff, or you arehaving fun whatching. And THEN you decide you want to STAY as observer... How do you get OUT of the queue????`
`08:52.01`	`_Manu_`	`then.. you do: /join observers`
`08:52.07`	`ruskie`	`ok`
`08:52.13`	`ruskie`	`that's good...`
`08:52.15`	`CBG`	`so, rejoin?`
`08:52.18`	`_Manu_`	`no`
`08:52.39`	`CBG`	`<PROTECTED>`
`08:52.41`	`ruskie`	`/join just changes teams without a rejoin?`
`08:52.43`	`_Manu_`	`after I get this working.. I'll change the client code for avoid rejoining while you are in the same server`
`08:52.52`	`ruskie`	`great`
`08:52.53`	`_Manu_`	`yes`
`08:52.54`	`CBG`	`oh. ok ;)`
`08:53.19`	`_Manu_`	`then if you are playing in a server.. and you decide rejoin.. the client really keep using the same connection`
`08:53.27`	`_Manu_`	`quick and saves bandwidth`
`08:53.36`	`CBG`	`cool. ;)`
`08:56.04`	`CBG`	`roflmfao!!! IE5.2 for mac doesnt seem to support css AT ALL! lol`
`08:57.25`	`ruskie`	`you acctually use ie????`
`08:57.29`	`CBG`	`No.`
`08:57.31`	`CBG`	`I was testing...`
`08:57.32`	`ruskie`	`gasp shock`
`08:57.38`	`ruskie`	`ahhh`
`08:57.38`	`ruskie`	`lol`
`08:57.40`	`CBG`	`Dont be a moron.`
`08:57.47`	`CBG`	`Safari all the way. ;)`
`08:58.02`	`CBG`	`Well. I am off to PLAY some bz. :)`
`09:16.12`	`*** join/#bzflag CBG (~CBG@cpc2-stme1-5-1-cust173.cdif.cable.ntl.com)`
`10:21.41`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (~atupone@host-84-222-136-74.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`10:21.53`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ`
`10:32.55`	`*** join/#bzflag ibunny (~alex@jolie.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`10:39.44`	`ibunny`	`morning`
`10:39.53`	`ruskie`	`hail`
`10:44.32`	`*** join/#bzflag ibunny (~alex@jolie.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`10:51.35`	`*** join/#bzflag CBG (~CBG@cpc2-stme1-5-1-cust173.cdif.cable.ntl.com)`
`10:51.47`	`ibunny`	`CBG CBG <3<3`
`10:52.00`	`CBG`	`ibunny. hugs`
`10:52.10`	`CBG`	`Someone help out this kid: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=4549`
`10:59.28`	`CBG`	`while configuring, it said: checking for gawk... no`
`10:59.28`	`CBG`	`checking for mawk... no`
`10:59.28`	`CBG`	`checking for nawk... no`
`10:59.49`	`CBG`	`oh, there is lots I am missing, it seems...`
`11:01.30`	`CBG`	`well. it seemed to configure okay anyways.`
`11:01.57`	`jpa-`	`i'm baack!`
`11:02.18`	`CBG`	`yay :D`
`11:05.14`	`Bagheera`	`good morning all`
`11:05.28`	`*** part/#bzflag ibunny (~alex@jolie.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`11:05.38`	`CBG`	`Hahaha!! www.mofo.com`
`11:05.43`	`CBG`	`Hi grumbler! :P`
`11:06.01`	`Bagheera`	`morning CBG`
`11:06.21`	`CBG`	`click the linky - its family friendly, thats why its so funny :D`
`11:10.16`	`*** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net)`
`11:19.06`	`CBG`	`Gee... Make is sure taking a while`
`11:25.16`	`CBG`	`over 20 minutes.... yawn`
`12:04.35`	`*** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (~44550a37@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`12:05.02`	`I_Died_Once`	`...is anyone alive in here?`
`12:05.44`	`Tupone`	`nope ... all zombie`
`12:06.09`	`I_Died_Once`	`I'm not surprised. It would be AWESOME is brlcad was here`
`12:06.48`	`CBG`	`he was... earlier`
`12:07.01`	`CBG`	`learner!!`
`12:07.12`	`I_Died_Once`	`Well dammit he was supposed to do me a favor`
`12:07.28`	`menotume`	`maybe that's why he's hiding`
`12:07.32`	`I_Died_Once`	`How they hangin' CannomBall`
`12:07.50`	`I_Died_Once`	`meno, that would be my luck`
`12:07.52`	`menotume`	`I_Died_Once: what do you need ?`
`12:08.37`	`CBG`	`Darth: I'm good... you? Whatcha want?`
`12:08.50`	`I_Died_Once`	`Got any money?`
`12:08.57`	`CBG`	`Me? :o`
`12:10.11`	`I_Died_Once`	`...`
`12:10.42`	`I_Died_Once`	`its gonna be a hundred and forty seven degrees today with the heat index and all`
`12:11.09`	`menotume`	`wow, only 100 here`
`12:11.18`	`I_Died_Once`	`I think the earth is slowly tumbling toward the sun`
`12:11.18`	`CBG`	`whats that in celsius?`
`12:11.27`	`menotume`	`a gazillion`
`12:11.59`	`I_Died_Once`	`It would be great if he WASA delivering ice my way`
`12:12.06`	`I_Died_Once`	`**was`
`12:13.00`	`CBG`	`its about 23 C here, like 75 F I guess...`
`12:13.32`	`I_Died_Once`	`I thought you lived in the states, CannonBallGirl`
`12:13.40`	`CBG`	`Nope. UK.`
`12:13.46`	`I_Died_Once`	`oh snap`
`12:14.10`	`CBG`	`oh. :o`
`12:14.18`	`I_Died_Once`	`its 1300 there aint it?`
`12:14.23`	`CBG`	`I thought YOU lived in rge states.`
`12:14.23`	`I_Died_Once`	`(time)`
`12:14.29`	`CBG`	`13:15`
`12:14.42`	`I_Died_Once`	`five hours ahead`
`12:15.33`	`I_Died_Once`	`CBG, do you know German or any of those other eurotrash languages?`
`12:16.41`	`CBG`	`Nope.`
`12:16.56`	`CBG`	`English on;y. I dropped every other language at school.`
`12:17.01`	`CBG`	`*only`
`12:17.37`	`menotume`	`~convert 147 F to C`
`12:17.46`	`menotume`	`!convert 147 F to C`
`12:17.46`	TheLastSpartan`	`menotume: 63.8888888889`
`12:17.51`	`menotume`	`!convert 100 F to C`
`12:17.52`	TheLastSpartan`	`menotume: 37.7777777778`
`12:18.23`	`I_Died_Once`	`I hate it when the little people come in speaking their special little language that only they can understand`
`12:18.45`	`CBG`	`wow!`
`12:19.00`	`CBG`	`60 deg C ? :o`
`12:19.05`	`CBG`	`You are gonna BURN!`
`12:19.32`	`I_Died_Once`	`well it was an exageration`
`12:19.37`	`menotume`	`:)`
`12:19.48`	`I_Died_Once`	`its more like 110 though with humidity and heat index`
`12:20.04`	`I_Died_Once`	`convert 110 F to C
`12:20.06`	`menotume`	`!convert 110 F to C`
`12:20.07`	TheLastSpartan`	`menotume: 43.3333333333`
`12:20.14`	`I_Died_Once`	`!convert 110 F to C`
`12:20.15`	TheLastSpartan`	`I_Died_Once: 43.3333333333`
`12:22.15`	`CBG`	`Still hot.`
`12:22.47`	`CBG`	`We had about 25 - 30 deg C here last week... and we were all sweating like pigs (which coincidentally don't sweat...)`
`12:24.56`	`menotume`	`!convert 30 C to F`
`12:24.57`	TheLastSpartan`	`menotume: 86.0`
`12:25.00`	`menotume`	`heh`
`12:25.08`	`Bagheera`	`86 would be nice`
`12:26.02`	`CBG`	`I bet thats hardly warm for you guys...`
`12:26.33`	`Grumbler`	`we are in the instant sweat days here`
`12:35.34`	`*** join/#bzflag ElectricElf (~david@ElectricElf.developer.debian)`
`12:38.37`	`menotume`	`CBG, 86F is hot, yes. "but, it's not the heat, it's the humidity" :)`
`12:39.27`	`menotume`	`temp today is supposed to be 90, heat index 100+`
`12:50.04`	`*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (revol@ALyon-253-1-30-2.w83-205.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`13:22.07`	`Grumbler`	`menotume< 103-104 by 3-4 pm`
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`15:32.18`	`menotume`	`Grumbler: so, 106 @ 6pm ?`
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`15:34.04`	`*** part/#bzflag jolie (~alex@jolie.active.supporter.pdpc)`
`15:43.24`	`brlcad`	`Grumbler: yikes`
`15:44.10`	`brlcad`	`i'd heard mid 90's, but not the index`
`15:45.52`	`*** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net)`
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`16:05.45`	`*** join/#bzflag CBG (~CBG@cpc2-stme1-5-1-cust173.cdif.cable.ntl.com)`
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`16:31.44`	`Grumbler`	`brlcad< bring water, lots and lots of water.........and ice.........and AC :)`
`16:32.01`	`Aribeth`	`hot there?`
`16:33.04`	`Grumbler`	`yep, hot there?`
`16:33.06`	`Aribeth`	`its 84 here with a hi of 90 today`
`16:34.45`	`Grumbler`	`just hit 91.7 outside the house`
`16:34.54`	`Aribeth`	`ouch`
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`16:52.55`	`brlcad`	`!weather 21218`
`16:52.55`	TheLastSpartan`	`brlcad: The current temperature in Baltimore, Maryland (21218) is 98�F (12:44 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: 73�F. UV: 4 out of 16`
`16:59.41`	`Aribeth`	`!weather 30040`
`16:59.44`	TheLastSpartan`	`Aribeth: The current temperature in Cumming, Georgia (30040) is 87�F (12:40 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: 69�F. UV: 6 out of 16`
`17:01.01`	`*** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (~44550a37@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`17:01.15`	`brlcad`	`I_Died_Once: got the messages`
`17:01.21`	`brlcad`	`haven't gotten to it yet is all`
`17:01.25`	`brlcad`	`soon`
`17:01.35`	`Aribeth`	`the humidity will go up soon here`
`17:01.47`	`brlcad`	`~fling at SportyGal`
`17:01.47`	`ibot`	`ACTION flings a boogie at SportyGal`
`17:01.55`	`brlcad`	`oh, new ones`
`17:01.58`	`SportyGal`	`~lart brlcad`
`17:02.10`	`SportyGal`	`heh`
`17:02.16`	`Aribeth`	`ouch`
`17:02.36`	`I_Died_Once`	`...`
`17:02.36`	`brlcad`	`mm.. all this talk of ocean and waves is making me thirsty`
`17:02.54`	`Aribeth`	`time for a cold one`
`17:02.59`	`SportyGal`	`oops`
`17:03.05`	`I_Died_Once`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:03.11`	`I_Died_Once`	`Word`
`17:03.17`	`brlcad`	`O.o`
`17:04.26`	`ToughShooter`	`~weather EDDF`
`17:04.39`	`I_Died_Once`	`04red07orange08yellow09green12blue11indigo13violet 01= 04R07o08y 09G. 12B11i13v`
`17:04.49`	`I_Died_Once`	`ok, that was fun`
`17:05.03`	`I_Died_Once`	`"Taste the rainbow"`
`17:05.34`	`I_Died_Once`	`You're in Atlanta?`
`17:05.38`	`I_Died_Once`	`I'm in Savannah`
`17:05.42`	`*** join/#bzflag jomojo (~jomojo@c-24-17-68-130.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)`
`17:05.47`	`ToughShooter`	`Is there one more Earl Grey?`
`17:05.54`	`Aribeth`	`ahhh Atlanta, where its so hotlanta`
`17:05.56`	`Aribeth`	`:)`
`17:06.06`	`I_Died_Once`	`Its like a million and a half degrees here`
`17:06.30`	`Aribeth`	`so do i`
`17:06.41`	`I_Died_Once`	`my sister live in Atlanta`
`17:06.56`	`I_Died_Once`	`my company is headquarered out of Atlanta`
`17:06.57`	`Aribeth`	`im north of Atlants`
`17:07.04`	`ToughShooter`	`~weather EDDF`
`17:07.07`	`Aribeth`	`Atlanta*`
`17:07.10`	`I_Died_Once`	`I'm flying up ther in two weeks`
`17:07.40`	`I_Died_Once`	`~weather Savannah, Ga`
`17:07.48`	`I_Died_Once`	`~weather SAV`
`17:07.51`	`Aribeth`	`it will be in the 90's all week here`
`17:07.55`	`I_Died_Once`	`????`
`17:08.11`	`brlcad`	`feed it a weather station code`
`17:08.19`	`blast007`	`!weather Savannah, Ga`
`17:08.22`	TheLastSpartan`	`blast007: The current temperature in Savannah, Georgia (31322) is 89�F (12:53 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 59%. Dew Point: 73�F. Wind: SSW at 6 mph (9 km/h). Pressure: 30.14 in (1020 hPa). Visibility: 10.0 miles (16.1 kilometers). UV: 12 out of 16`
`17:08.27`	`ToughShooter`	`It's 19:08 for me, still so hot`
`17:08.46`	`I_Died_Once`	`~weather 31408`
`17:09.07`	`Aribeth`	`~weather 30040`
`17:09.11`	`brlcad`	only TheLastSpartan` will do city, state zip lookups
`17:09.22`	`Aribeth`	`!weather 30040`
`17:09.26`	TheLastSpartan`	`Aribeth: The current temperature in Cumming, Georgia (30040) is 84�F (1:00 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 65%. Dew Point: 71�F. UV: 10 out of 16`
`17:09.32`	`brlcad`	`the ibot only does proper weather station codes`
`17:09.36`	`blast007`	`!weather 92328`
`17:09.39`	TheLastSpartan`	`blast007: The current temperature in Death Valley, California (92328) is 99�F (9:56 AM PDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 14%. Dew Point: 42�F. Pressure: 29.79 in (1009 hPa). Visibility: 50.0 miles (80.4 kilometers). UV: 7 out of 16`
`17:09.43`	`I_Died_Once`	`~weather KSAV`
`17:09.55`	`I_Died_Once`	`Thats where I work`
`17:10.23`	`I_Died_Once`	`I cut the grass this morning and sweat about nine pounds of sweat`
`17:10.38`	`Aribeth`	`sounds about right`
`17:10.39`	`I_Died_Once`	`it was gruesome`
`17:10.47`	`brlcad`	`!convert 99 F to C`
`17:10.48`	TheLastSpartan`	`brlcad: 37.2222222222`
`17:10.54`	`I_Died_Once`	`I dont think that shirt is ever going to be the same`
`17:11.03`	`Aribeth`	`heh`
`17:11.09`	`I_Died_Once`	`SO brlcad - whaaats a guy got to do?`
`17:11.20`	`brlcad`	`a guy's got to wait`
`17:11.25`	`Aribeth`	`in Georgia its shower, work, shower, work, shower....`
`17:11.38`	`blast007`	`:)`
`17:11.51`	`I_Died_Once`	`I'm off today`
`17:11.56`	`I_Died_Once`	`and tomorrow`
`17:12.11`	`I_Died_Once`	`so its shower, recreational activities, shower...`
`17:12.18`	`Aribeth`	`heh`
`17:12.45`	`I_Died_Once`	`my year looks nice though`
`17:12.54`	`I_Died_Once`	`better than my trashy neighbors`
`17:12.54`	`Aribeth`	`well, i have to satisfy the yard police, so i prolly will have to mow the back yard`
`17:13.18`	`I_Died_Once`	`now I need to decide if I want a P.T. Cruiser or a Mazda 6`
`17:13.22`	`Aribeth`	`yard police == HOA`
`17:13.53`	`Aribeth`	`how about a 1970 Cevy Chevell?`
`17:13.59`	`I_Died_Once`	`*pass`
`17:14.10`	`Aribeth`	`lots of power`
`17:14.15`	`I_Died_Once`	`I'm sure`
`17:15.09`	`I_Died_Once`	`I want something that'll alst me ten years if I keep the oil changes and belt tight`
`17:15.36`	`Aribeth`	`i've had my 1971 Olds Cutlass for 12 years`
`17:15.45`	`I_Died_Once`	`or I might lease one or the other`
`17:15.53`	`brlcad`	`woot, broke triple digit`
`17:16.00`	`brlcad`	`!weather 21218`
`17:16.01`	`Aribeth`	`wow`
`17:16.03`	TheLastSpartan`	`brlcad: The current temperature in Baltimore, Maryland (21218) is 101�F (1:15 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 56%. Dew Point: 74�F. UV: 7 out of 16`
`17:16.18`	`menotume`	`lucky you, only 90 here`
`17:16.31`	`blast007`	`http://www.rqriley.com/tri-mag.html`
`17:16.35`	`ToughShooter`	`!weather EDDF`
`17:16.36`	TheLastSpartan`	`ToughShooter: The current temperature in Frankfurt/main, Germany is 82�F (6:50 PM CEST on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 35%. Dew Point: 52�F. Wind: WSW at 8 mph (13 km/h). Pressure: 29.74 in (1007 hPa).`
`17:17.56`	`ToughShooter`	`brlcad: I've got some dashboard stuff that converts F to C within microseconds, it's only annoying not to be able to read it directly`
`17:18.53`	`I_Died_Once`	`00Test`
`17:19.25`	`I_Died_Once`	`00 I'm not wearing pants!!`
`17:19.51`	`Grumbler`	`!weather 21401`
`17:19.54`	TheLastSpartan`	`Grumbler: The current temperature in Annapolis, Maryland (21401) is 99�F (1:15 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 41%. Dew Point: 71�F. UV: 7 out of 16`
`17:20.33`	`Grumbler`	`brlcad< you could drive south and cool down a whole 2 degrees :)`
`17:21.33`	`*** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net)`
`17:21.50`	`Grumbler`	`!weather 21619`
`17:21.55`	TheLastSpartan`	`Grumbler: The current temperature in Chester, Maryland (21619) is 99�F (1:15 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: 77�F. UV: 7 out of 16`
`17:22.25`	`BenUrban`	`!weather 20901`
`17:22.29`	`Grumbler`	`odd that the humidity is that much different between there and here`
`17:22.30`	TheLastSpartan`	`BenUrban: The current temperature in Silver Spring, Maryland (20901) is 99�F (1:16 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: 73�F. UV: 10 out of 16`
`17:23.03`	`BenUrban`	`!weather 20852`
`17:23.06`	TheLastSpartan`	`BenUrban: The current temperature in Rockville, Maryland (20852) is 100�F (1:15 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 73�F. UV: 10 out of 16`
`17:23.11`	`BenUrban`	`WOW`
`17:23.14`	`BenUrban`	`100`
`17:23.28`	`BenUrban`	`and i'm in a house without AC`
`17:23.32`	`BenUrban`	`at work`
`17:24.22`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@host-84-222-136-74.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`17:24.22`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ`
`17:24.54`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (~Tupone@host-84-222-136-74.cust-adsl.tiscali.it)`
`17:24.54`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ`
`17:26.22`	`Grumbler`	`whine, whine, whine......we should be looking at the positive effects of high temperatures`
`17:26.40`	`Grumbler`	`old people can move around without pain....`
`17:26.42`	`Aribeth`	`i am. im getting a tan`
`17:27.07`	`Grumbler`	`see, even aribeth is able to move outside to get a tan`
`17:27.10`	`Grumbler`	`;)`
`17:27.25`	`BenUrban`	`lol`
`17:28.03`	`BenUrban`	`she didn't say she was outside...`
`17:28.06`	`BenUrban`	`:P`
`17:28.17`	`Aribeth`	`ROFLOL!`
`17:28.45`	`Grumbler`	`BenUrban< she owns a 1972 cutlass.....i dont think she is getting a tanning bed anytime soon`
`17:28.49`	`Aribeth`	`where else can i sweat to the oldies and get a tan?`
`17:28.57`	`BenUrban`	`hehe`
`17:29.11`	`Grumbler`	`Aribeth< florida`
`17:29.18`	`*** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net)`
`17:29.27`	`Aribeth`	`and thats sweat to the oldies outside without working`
`17:29.38`	`Aribeth`	`hreeh`
`17:30.14`	`Grumbler`	`yep, its hot outside`
`17:30.35`	`BenUrban`	`even my parents are complaining`
`17:30.42`	`Grumbler`	`wonder how many strokes would occur if there was a power outage today`
`17:30.46`	`BenUrban`	`and they got back from 2 weeks in israel on saturday`
`17:31.03`	`Grumbler`	`but its a dry heat in israel`
`17:31.10`	`BenUrban`	`they say it doesn't matter :P`
`17:31.11`	`Aribeth`	`yep`
`17:33.45`	`BenUrban`	`haha`
`17:33.53`	`BenUrban`	`thelastspartan had a stroke :P`
`17:34.38`	`*** join/#bzflag TheLastSpartan (guu@myth.gibbscam.com)`
`17:35.21`	`Aribeth`	`time to go out into the sauna`
`17:56.50`	`*** join/#bzflag lala (~50913e19@genesis.concept69.de)`
`17:57.27`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/obstacle/TeleporterSceneNodeGenerator.cxx: less useless scenenodes`
`18:24.29`	`*** join/#bzflag BIYA (~chatzilla@dialup-4.129.81.45.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net)`
`18:26.38`	`*** part/#bzflag BIYA (~chatzilla@dialup-4.129.81.45.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net)`
`18:30.15`	`*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (revol@ALyon-253-1-12-22.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`18:42.23`	`*** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (~bernt@CPE000102d0fe75-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`18:42.33`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (~benurban@68.32.118.193)`
`18:43.02`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)`
`18:44.59`	`Aribeth_away`	`!weather 30040`
`18:45.02`	`TheLastSpartan`	`Aribeth_away: The current temperature in Cumming, Georgia (30040) is 90�F (2:40 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 50%. Dew Point: 66�F. UV: 9 out of 16`
`18:45.10`	`Aribeth_away`	`eek!`
`18:45.16`	`menotume`	`tie!`
`18:45.20`	`menotume`	`!weather 19067`
`18:45.23`	`Aribeth_away`	`im roasted`
`18:45.24`	`TheLastSpartan`	`menotume: The current temperature in Yardley, Pennsylvania (19067) is 88�F (1:53 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 65%. Dew Point: 75�F. Wind: SSW at 5 mph (7 km/h). Pressure: 29.94 in (1014 hPa). Visibility: 6.0 miles (9.7 kilometers). UV: 12 out of 16`
`18:45.34`	`BenUrban`	`you bastard`
`18:45.37`	`Grumbler`	`killer uv index`
`18:45.37`	`menotume`	`ooops, went down - tstorm coming`
`18:45.40`	`Thumper_`	`!weather cyyz`
`18:45.43`	`TheLastSpartan`	`Thumper_: The current temperature in Toronto-Pearson International, Ontario is 91�F (2:00 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 52%. Dew Point: 72�F. Pressure: 29.85 in (1011 hPa). Visibility: 6.0 miles (9.7 kilometers). UV: 6 out of 16`
`18:46.03`	`BenUrban`	`...and the world...`
`18:46.04`	`Grumbler`	`!weather 21619`
`18:46.08`	`TheLastSpartan`	`Grumbler: The current temperature in Chester, Maryland (21619) is 112�F (2:45 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 37%. Dew Point: 71�F. UV: 7 out of 16`
`18:46.16`	`Grumbler`	`oh, yeah`
`18:46.16`	`Aribeth_away`	`i just finished cutting the back lawn`
`18:46.19`	`BenUrban`	`that's a bit too high`
`18:46.24`	`BenUrban`	`lol`
`18:46.39`	`Grumbler`	`!weather 21401`
`18:46.41`	`BenUrban`	`~weather 20901`
`18:46.42`	`TheLastSpartan`	`Grumbler: The current temperature in Annapolis, Maryland (21401) is 112�F (2:45 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 37%. Dew Point: 71�F. UV: 7 out of 16`
`18:46.47`	`Aribeth_away`	`eek!`
`18:46.48`	`BenUrban`	`!weather 20901`
`18:46.50`	`TheLastSpartan`	`BenUrban: The current temperature in Silver Spring, Maryland (20901) is 100�F (2:31 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 58%. Dew Point: 74�F. UV: 4 out of 16`
`18:46.59`	`BenUrban`	`!weather 20852`
`18:47.01`	`TheLastSpartan`	`BenUrban: The current temperature in Rockville, Maryland (20852) is 98�F (2:30 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 55%. Dew Point: 72�F. UV: 4 out of 16`
`18:47.15`	`Grumbler`	`hmmm, think i will go outside and fry up some dinner.....roadkill would be the easiest`
`18:47.23`	`BenUrban`	`it's already fried`
`18:47.24`	`Aribeth_away`	`im a crispy critter`
`18:47.34`	`Thumper_`	`just scrape it onto a plate with a spatula`
`18:47.46`	`Aribeth_away`	`er...im melted`
`18:47.46`	`BenUrban`	`might want to add sauce`
`18:47.49`	`BenUrban`	`or ketchup`
`18:48.00`	`Thumper_`	`Habenero hotsauce will work`
`18:48.05`	`BenUrban`	`yeah`
`18:48.13`	`Aribeth_away`	`came too close to passing out :(`
`18:49.15`	`Thumper_`	`down with rotation servers - the map you want is never available`
`18:49.21`	`Aribeth_away`	`i feel like i just drank a bottle of Habenero`
`18:50.02`	`Thumper_`	`so I have a replacement idea for rotation servers on my limited bandwidth`
`18:50.10`	`Thumper_`	`and I'm playing with it to see if it will actually work`
`18:50.22`	`BenUrban`	`wtf my music is playing slightly faster with glibc 2.3.5`
`18:50.30`	`Thumper_`	`I run one server per map to server (18 servers on my poor little 800kbps uplink`
`18:50.33`	`BenUrban`	`and with more distortion`
`18:50.36`	`Thumper_`	`I can handle about 20 players`
`18:51.00`	`Thumper_`	`when I reach 10 players I shut off the idle servers`
`18:51.10`	`Aribeth_away`	`heh`
`18:51.14`	`Thumper_`	`so only the active servers get bandwidth and the idle servers fall off the list`
`18:51.20`	`Thumper_`	`when players drops to 5 I bring them all up again`
`18:51.32`	`Thumper_`	`any opinions if that will work okay?`
`18:51.45`	`Thumper_`	`server startup with complicated maps pegs my cpu for awhiel`
`18:51.48`	`Thumper_`	`so that might be bad`
`18:52.22`	`Aribeth_away`	`im lucky, i dont have bandwidth problems`
`18:52.27`	`*** join/#bzflag tavla (~spreker@ip51cfa1ef.direct-adsl.nl)`
`18:52.44`	`Aribeth_away`	`i know how you feel though`
`18:52.49`	`Thumper_`	`so maybe you can just run my servers ;)`
`18:52.54`	`Aribeth_away`	`heh`
`18:52.54`	`Thumper_`	`:D`
`18:53.18`	`Thumper_`	`lag lag lag... the story of my life recently`
`18:53.25`	`Aribeth_away`	`im running 8 maps right now`
`18:53.44`	`Aribeth_away`	`i was there in march`
`18:54.09`	`Aribeth_away`	`how many maps you running?`
`18:56.18`	`Grumbler`	`Thumper_< good idea`
`18:57.20`	`Grumbler`	`because sometimes, hepcat can just be tooooo busy`
`18:57.26`	`Aribeth_away`	`Thumper_ how many maps are you running?`
`18:57.29`	`Thumper_`	`18`
`18:57.32`	`Thumper_`	`:)`
`18:57.33`	`Aribeth_away`	`eek`
`18:57.40`	`Thumper_`	`bzflag.norang.ca on the server list`
`18:57.47`	`BenUrban`	`'wow..`
`18:58.06`	`Thumper_`	`I unrolled my rotation server of LouMan maps and that turned into 12 servers`
`18:58.19`	`Thumper_`	`but if they only play one at a time it's fine`
`18:58.28`	`Aribeth_away`	`ahh`
`18:58.45`	`Grumbler`	`but with your idea, the most that could ever truly be running cliients is 9`
`18:58.55`	`Thumper_`	`true`
`18:59.05`	`Thumper_`	`but I figure the players see them all when it's idle`
`18:59.07`	`Thumper_`	`pick what they like and play that`
`18:59.17`	`Thumper_`	`and the unpopular ones go away so they don't suck away bandwidth`
`18:59.25`	`Thumper_`	`then when teh servers are quieter they come back`
`18:59.41`	`Thumper_`	`which is better than a rotation server where it's one map of many and usually not the one someone wants to play on`
`18:59.49`	`Grumbler`	`yeah, but for bandwidth, usage calculations, 9 players.......i dont thiink the server cares if its 9 on one server or 9 on 9 servers`
`18:59.49`	`Thumper_`	`at least it feels that way :)`
`18:59.58`	`Thumper_`	`no it doesn't`
`19:00.14`	`Thumper_`	`so when I hit 10 players I'll shut off all the idle ones`
`19:00.14`	`trepan`	`actually, it does`
`19:00.21`	`Thumper_`	`any of the other ones that go idle will also shut off`
`19:00.42`	`Thumper_`	`so it's an expermient`
`19:00.45`	`Thumper_`	`experiment*`
`19:00.46`	`Aribeth_away`	`hiya trepan`
`19:00.49`	`Thumper_`	`hi trepan :)`
`19:01.00`	`trepan`	`9 on one server generates more outbound traffic then 9 server with 1 player`
`19:01.01`	`ToughShooter`	`Why are observers lags are also sorted? If they would come at beginning it would be less work to check if there is anyone lagging badly.`
`19:01.03`	`trepan`	`hiyaz`
`19:01.03`	`Grumbler`	`trepan< how so....i could see a little overhead, maybe some texture download stuff....`
`19:01.16`	`Grumbler`	`ah`
`19:01.18`	`Grumbler`	`that way`
`19:01.25`	`Grumbler`	`got it`
`19:01.29`	`trepan`	`it's the whole N * (N - 1) thang`
`19:01.45`	`Thumper_`	`oh yeah... and the flag reset on a busy server - that's bad :)`
`19:01.48`	`Thumper_`	`I stopped doing that :)`
`19:02.11`	`Thumper_`	`server sends new flag positions to all players... BIG lag spike`
`19:02.31`	`Grumbler`	`lower your min flag count, that should help`
`19:02.39`	`trepan`	`really? probably flag position calculations (CPU load)`
`19:02.49`	`Thumper_`	`maybe`
`19:03.09`	`trepan`	`could be packets too i guess...`
`19:03.17`	`Aribeth_away`	`thumper_ what are you useing for a server?`
`19:03.21`	`Grumbler`	`of course people might be POed if it takes 10 minutes to get back to decent flag count`
`19:03.50`	`Thumper_`	`AMD K8 Sempron 2.2GHz w/ 256KB cache and 512MB memory`
`19:04.10`	`Thumper_`	`fastest system I own`
`19:04.11`	`Aribeth_away`	`might bump up the memory`
`19:04.27`	`Aribeth_away`	`i found 1 GB helped a lot`
`19:04.45`	`Thumper_`	`ok thx`
`19:05.04`	`trepan`	`are you hitting swap?`
`19:05.07`	`Thumper_`	`no`
`19:05.11`	`Aribeth_away`	`i put in 1gb Corseair XMS ram`
`19:05.23`	`*** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (~ts@p54B006EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`19:05.36`	`Aribeth_away`	`the extra ram alowed me to run more maps`
`19:05.45`	`Thumper_`	`what OS Aribeth?`
`19:06.04`	`Aribeth_away`	`Linux, but my current server runs FreeBSD`
`19:06.17`	`Thumper_`	`Linux here too with the vserver patch`
`19:06.24`	`Aribeth_away`	`i lease a dedicated server at colomart`
`19:07.35`	`Thumper_`	`well I'm going to try this for a week or so and see how bad it is :)`
`19:07.52`	`Aribeth_away`	`:)`
`19:08.20`	`*** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net)`
`19:09.40`	`Aribeth_away`	`!weather 30040`
`19:09.42`	`TheLastSpartan`	`Aribeth_away: The current temperature in Cumming, Georgia (30040) is 90�F (3:00 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 48%. Dew Point: 66�F. UV: 11 out of 16`
`19:11.31`	`bryjen`	`91 in Toronto?`
`19:20.26`	`Thumper_`	`yes`
`19:20.38`	`Aribeth`	`?`
`19:20.47`	`Thumper_`	`it is 91 in Toronto`
`19:20.52`	`Thumper_`	`91F`
`19:20.58`	`Aribeth`	`oh`
`19:21.17`	`Thumper_`	`it is time for a good T-storm to cool us down and rob me of power again...`
`19:21.31`	`Aribeth`	`same here`
`19:22.11`	`Thumper_`	`Do remote observers use less bandwidth than regular players?`
`19:22.45`	`Thumper_`	`ie. bzflag observers, and bzadmin clients`
`19:22.52`	`Thumper_`	`vs a bzflag player`
`19:23.18`	`Aribeth`	`duno`
`19:23.26`	`Thumper_`	`me either`
`19:23.37`	`Thumper_`	`I'm guessing bzadmin is less but bzflag observer is about the same`
`19:23.44`	`Thumper_`	`so I'll go with worst case...`
`19:23.56`	`*** join/#bzflag Punkus (~chris@222.153.210.20)`
`19:24.17`	`Punkus`	`hello`
`19:24.27`	`bryjen`	`the server sends all the same info to bzadmin as an observer, which may be the same as a player`
`19:24.29`	`*** join/#bzflag Dodge_This (~41a6cdfe@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`19:24.42`	`Thumper_`	`hi Punkus`
`19:24.57`	`Punkus`	`lol`
`19:25.03`	`bryjen`	`!weather Toronto, Ontario`
`19:25.05`	`TheLastSpartan`	`bryjen: The current temperature in Toronto, Ontario is 86�F (3:00 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: 75�F. Pressure: 29.83 in (1010 hPa). Visibility: 3.0 miles (4.8 kilometers). UV: 10 out of 16`
`19:25.17`	`bryjen`	`is cooler away from the airport`
`19:25.19`	`BenUrban`	`ugh nthis faster music is making me tense`
`19:25.29`	`Thumper_`	`I'm north of the airport... hot here`
`19:25.30`	`BenUrban`	`wtf did they do to glibc?`
`19:26.24`	`Dodge_This`	`anybody know of and issues compiling on (linux) kernel 2.6`
`19:26.35`	`Aribeth`	`nope`
`19:26.40`	`Thumper_`	`nope`
`19:26.43`	`bryjen`	`works fine here`
`19:26.50`	`Thumper_`	`works great for me too`
`19:26.54`	`Dodge_This`	`cool - thx`
`19:27.12`	`Dodge_This`	`didnt want to waste my time if it wasn't gonna work`
`19:29.33`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (~benurban@68.32.118.193)`
`19:31.25`	`Aribeth`	`oh oh`
`19:32.08`	`BenUrban`	`hmm`
`19:32.10`	`BenUrban`	`not big enough`
`19:32.49`	`Aribeth`	`just get a cutting tourch`
`19:33.05`	`BenUrban`	`i doubt he has one`
`19:33.27`	`BenUrban`	`though the construction workers might`
`19:33.30`	`Aribeth`	`good way to get out the frustration`
`19:35.01`	`Aribeth`	`heh. i have a couple of them as paper weights`
`19:35.19`	`Thumper_`	`I have some 400MB drives you can have :)`
`19:35.28`	`BenUrban`	`lol`
`19:35.36`	`BenUrban`	`i think i do to`
`19:35.37`	`BenUrban`	`o`
`19:36.08`	`Aribeth`	`i have one of seagate's first 10,000 rpm scsi drives. noisy little thing`
`19:36.29`	`BenUrban`	`did i mention there's no ac here?`
`19:36.38`	`Aribeth`	`ahh`
`19:36.39`	`Thumper_`	`I have a pair of 10K drives I can't run anymore... 36GB SCSI - sounds like a jet plane when they have power`
`19:36.43`	`Thumper_`	`horrible things :)`
`19:36.48`	`BenUrban`	`hehe`
`19:37.47`	`BenUrban`	`...in 3 seconds`
`19:37.57`	`Aribeth`	`i have 2 Quantum 10k II Typhone drives. very quiet`
`19:38.19`	`BenUrban`	`heh, everything's quiet compared to these servers about 2 ft away from me`
`19:38.59`	`BenUrban`	`lol`
`19:39.05`	`Aribeth`	`heh`
`19:39.31`	`Aribeth`	`i have the drives in a Sun Ultra 80`
`19:39.47`	`Aribeth`	`i can hardly tell it running :)`
`19:39.55`	`DTRemenak`	`if I had something larger/faster I'd hook it up, but that's the biggest scsi drive I've got :)`
`19:40.22`	`Aribeth`	`i have 5 18 gb scsi drives`
`19:40.44`	`DTRemenak`	`raid is good :)`
`19:40.58`	`Aribeth`	`in 2 computers though`
`19:41.02`	`Aribeth`	`yep`
`19:41.04`	`DTRemenak`	`aww`
`19:41.20`	`Aribeth`	`2 are 68 pin LVD drives`
`19:41.56`	`Aribeth`	`the others are the 80 pin type`
`19:42.47`	`BenUrban`	`hmm`
`19:43.08`	`BenUrban`	`are knoppix cds more sensitive to damage than windows cds?`
`19:43.23`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~jeffm@JeffM2501.sustaining.supporter.pdpc)`
`19:43.23`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`19:43.24`	`Aribeth`	`if you burned it yes`
`19:43.27`	`jpa-`	`BenUrban: yes`
`19:43.38`	`DTRemenak`	`BenUrban, recorded cds are more fragile. the contents don't care though ;)`
`19:44.04`	`Tupone`	`we have raid at work on sun. They always broke in couple :)`
`19:44.14`	`DTRemenak`	`heh :)`
`19:44.23`	`jpa-`	`DTRemenak: they do. windows doesn't necessarily even notice it is corrupted, knoppix has this cd-check thingie`
`19:44.58`	`DTRemenak`	`jpa-, yeah but you notice when you start up windows and it gives you "corrupt, damage or missing file" messages`
`19:45.06`	`DTRemenak`	`just the installer is too stupid to notice`
`19:45.59`	`DTRemenak`	`at my old work we had a 6x18 raid5 array, and one drive failed. the beeping the controller made was loud enough to be heard from the other side of the building (literally)`
`19:46.50`	`Aribeth`	`yep`
`19:47.40`	`DTRemenak`	`needless to say they called me right away..."The server sounds like a dying elephant. Can you come check it out?"`
`19:47.42`	`Aribeth`	`an intern tried to take my raid 5 array from me. i about went balistic on him`
`19:48.03`	`Aribeth`	`he stopped when a drive failed. :)`
`19:48.11`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`19:48.40`	`BenUrban`	`it only took this cd a few weeks to become unbootable`
`19:48.43`	`BenUrban`	`ah`
`19:48.57`	`BenUrban`	`well the windows cds are burned too`
`19:48.58`	`Aribeth`	`time to burn a new one`
`19:49.01`	`BenUrban`	`my guess is that the windows cd doesn't use most of the cd's space`
`19:49.03`	`BenUrban`	`and therefore doesn't notice/care when the free space is scratched`
`19:49.15`	`BenUrban`	`but a knoppix cd uses nearly the whole thing`
`19:49.17`	`BenUrban`	`at boot tiem`
`19:49.19`	`BenUrban`	`*time`
`19:49.27`	`BenUrban`	`is there a way to make an md5 of a cd that would compare to the iso file?`
`19:49.29`	`BenUrban`	`or is there some other way to verify a cd agfainst an iso?`
`19:49.31`	`BenUrban`	`*against`
`19:49.43`	`Aribeth`	`i always kept a copy of MS office that i only used to make copies from`
`19:49.52`	`jpa-`	`BenUrban: what iso? knoppix?`
`19:49.59`	`jpa-`	`knoppix has this cd-test thing :)`
`19:50.01`	`BenUrban`	`yeah`
`19:50.10`	`jpa-`	`in boot menu`
`19:50.13`	`BenUrban`	`i don't wanna reboot my box`
`19:50.18`	`jpa-`	`you must`
`19:50.19`	`BenUrban`	`and i can't trust any other`
`19:50.41`	`jpa-`	`it is just a small boot`
`19:50.43`	`DTRemenak`	`BenUrban, make an iso from it and run diff on the two :)`
`19:50.45`	`Thumper_`	`BenUrban: be virus free... just turn it off and go home :)`
`19:50.46`	`BenUrban`	`eew`
`19:50.48`	`BenUrban`	`lol`
`19:50.52`	`BenUrban`	`haha`
`19:50.55`	`BenUrban`	`can't go home yet`
`19:51.05`	`jpa-`	`BenUrban: mount the cd, there is md5 checksum file in the root folder`
`19:51.06`	`Aribeth`	`just get Gentoo`
`19:51.10`	`jpa-`	`and check against that`
`19:51.17`	`BenUrban`	`i am using gentoo`
`19:51.17`	`Aribeth`	`:P`
`19:51.19`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar (~foo@wegstar.user.allegro)`
`19:51.29`	`jpa-`	`gentoo cutie pie!`
`19:51.31`	`Aribeth`	`:)`
`19:51.45`	`BenUrban`	`jpa-: check what against that?`
`19:51.51`	`wegstar`	`...`
`19:51.54`	`jpa-`	`BenUrban: the files on cd`
`19:52.03`	`BenUrban`	`...`
`19:52.15`	`BenUrban`	`you mean md5sum each file on the cd?`
`19:52.25`	`jpa-`	`md5sum -c md5sum.list`
`19:52.34`	`jpa-`	`basically, yeah`
`19:52.40`	`jpa-`	`md5sum will do it for you, silly :P`
`19:52.44`	`BenUrban`	`lol`
`19:53.02`	`jpa-`	`ERROR: BenUrban is not man enough for md5sum`
`19:53.06`	`BenUrban`	`haha`
`19:53.56`	`Punkus`	`brb`
`19:53.59`	`*** part/#bzflag Punkus (~chris@222.153.210.20)`
`19:54.15`	`wegstar`	`hehe`
`19:54.16`	`BenUrban`	`KNOPPIX autorun.bat autorun.inf autorun.pif boot cdrom.ico index.html`
`19:54.20`	`*** join/#bzflag TimRiker (~timr@TimRiker.bronze.supporter.pdpc)`
`19:54.20`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
`19:54.42`	`BenUrban`	`aha`
`19:54.48`	`jpa-`	`oh true`
`19:54.51`	`BenUrban`	`KNOPPIX has it`
`19:54.57`	`jpa-`	`i forgot, it is in that big file`
`19:55.07`	`BenUrban`	`cat: md5sums: Input/output error`
`19:55.10`	`BenUrban`	`sonofabitch`
`19:55.10`	`jpa-`	`you need to have cloop to mount that thing`
`19:55.24`	`*** join/#bzflag Punku1 (~chris@222.153.210.20)`
`19:55.29`	`BenUrban`	`and how exactly do i do that?`
`19:55.56`	`jpa-`	`well, you don't`
`19:56.01`	`*** part/#bzflag Punku1 (~chris@222.153.210.20)`
`19:56.02`	`BenUrban`	`bah`
`19:56.03`	`jpa-`	`you can just mount the iso image too`
`19:56.06`	`jpa-`	`and md5sum it`
`19:56.10`	`BenUrban`	`hmm`
`19:56.11`	`jpa-`	`'s contents`
`19:56.16`	`jpa-`	`and the md5sum the cd contents`
`19:56.51`	`Aribeth`	`YUMMMM!`
`19:56.54`	`*** join/#bzflag Punkus (~chris@222.153.210.20)`
`19:57.54`	`jpa-`	`on BenUrban.`
`19:57.59`	`Aribeth`	`ouch`
`19:58.05`	`Aribeth`	`lol`
`19:58.37`	`BenUrban`	`haha`
`19:58.53`	`blast007`	`lol`
`19:59.10`	`Aribeth`	`jpa- finds it with a crickett`
`19:59.14`	`SportyGal`	`!weather 90277`
`19:59.17`	`TheLastSpartan`	`SportyGal: The current temperature in Redondo Beach, California (90277) is 75�F (11:47 AM PDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 73%. Dew Point: 66�F. Pressure: 29.82 in (1010 hPa). Visibility: 3.0 miles (4.8 kilometers).`
`19:59.33`	`jpa-`	`no`
`19:59.41`	`Aribeth`	`!weather 30040`
`19:59.42`	`BenUrban`	`haha`
`19:59.43`	`TheLastSpartan`	`Aribeth: The current temperature in Cumming, Georgia (30040) is 88�F (3:40 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 47%. Dew Point: 65�F. UV: 8 out of 16`
`19:59.47`	`SportyGal`	`wow, hot here`
`19:59.56`	`BenUrban`	`that's not hot`
`20:00.07`	`SportyGal`	`it is for here`
`20:00.17`	`BenUrban`	`!weather 20901`
`20:00.22`	`TheLastSpartan`	`BenUrban: The current temperature in Silver Spring, Maryland (20901) is 99�F (3:46 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 54%. Dew Point: 72�F. UV: 5 out of 16`
`20:00.22`	`Thumper_`	`:D`
`20:00.42`	`Tupone`	`ciao SportyGal`
`20:00.43`	`trepan`	`!weather cyow`
`20:00.46`	`TheLastSpartan`	`trepan: The current temperature in Ottawa-Macdonald-Cartier International, Ontario is 88�F (3:00 PM EDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 75�F. Pressure: 29.83 in (1010 hPa). Visibility: 15.0 miles (24.1 kilometers). UV: 5 out of 16`
`20:00.52`	`BenUrban`	`hehe`
`20:00.54`	`BenUrban`	`indeed`
`20:01.02`	`SportyGal`	`ciao tupone - I had more conversation about the antiban issue last night while you slept`
`20:01.05`	`BenUrban`	`whre do you think all this humidity is coming from?`
`20:01.15`	`Tupone`	`aww,`
`20:01.28`	`blast007`	`http://asciimation.co.nz/beer/ < beer cooler`
`20:01.32`	`SportyGal`	`do you log conversations while you sleep? :)`
`20:01.44`	`Tupone`	`I just read Tim logs`
`20:01.45`	`Aribeth`	`heh`
`20:02.20`	`Tupone`	`but I guess I 'll read tomorrow. They are on the server at 0 GMT`
`20:02.49`	`SportyGal`	`hrm - the gist of it is that it looks like the problem is definitely hostban v. ipban`
`20:02.59`	`SportyGal`	`hostban works, ipban doesn't`
`20:03.34`	`Tupone`	`the problem IMHO is that antiban works only for a delay on hostban`
`20:03.45`	`*** join/#bzflag SportChicky (DonnaCrawf@24-75-159-182.vnnyca.adelphia.net)`
`20:04.05`	`BenUrban`	`blast007: domain not found`
`20:04.06`	`Tupone`	`if DNS is speedy, hostban does not work at all`
`20:04.19`	`*** join/#bzflag CBG (~CBG@cpc2-stme1-5-1-cust173.cdif.cable.ntl.com)`
`20:04.19`	`blast007`	`BenUrban: works for me`
`20:04.31`	`BenUrban`	`then i have a problm`
`20:04.41`	`blast007`	`maybe need a www. ?`
`20:05.10`	`BenUrban`	`hmm`
`20:05.12`	`BenUrban`	`there it goes`
`20:06.17`	`BenUrban`	`benurban@lc2430 /mnt/cdrom/KNOPPIX $ md5sum KNOPPIX`
`20:06.17`	`BenUrban`	`md5sum: KNOPPIX: Input/output error`
`20:06.19`	`BenUrban`	`dammit`
`20:06.26`	`BenUrban`	`that one was less than a week`
`20:06.57`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar__ (~foo@adsl-69-109-228-192.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)`
`20:07.32`	`BenUrban`	`wow that thing is really scratched`
`20:07.46`	`BenUrban`	`me dares not burn a third`
`20:07.49`	`BenUrban`	`ack`
`20:08.14`	`Aribeth`	`just dont do the tango on the cd`
`20:08.19`	`BenUrban`	`?`
`20:08.35`	`Aribeth`	`ie handle with care`
`20:08.38`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar___ (~foo@adsl-69-224-3-86.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)`
`20:08.39`	`Aribeth`	`:)`
`20:08.41`	`BenUrban`	`heh`
`20:08.44`	`BenUrban`	`no can do`
`20:09.04`	`BenUrban`	`the place is being constructed around me`
`20:09.12`	`Aribeth`	`dust?`
`20:09.15`	`BenUrban`	`yeah`
`20:09.18`	`Aribeth`	`oh`
`20:09.24`	`BenUrban`	`the servers have filters stuck in front of them :P`
`20:09.33`	`Aribeth`	`then burn several`
`20:09.37`	`BenUrban`	`most of the place is wrapped in plastic`
`20:09.49`	`Aribeth`	`ahh`
`20:10.03`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar___ (~foo@adsl-69-224-3-86.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)`
`20:10.06`	`BenUrban`	`and has been for months`
`20:10.13`	`Aribeth`	`wow`
`20:10.13`	`BenUrban`	`wegstar__: having trouble?`
`20:10.39`	`BenUrban`	`actually close to a year`
`20:10.57`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar___ (~foo@adsl-69-224-3-86.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)`
`20:11.03`	`BenUrban`	`the cats don't like it at all :\`
`20:11.09`	`BenUrban`	`but they loooove me`
`20:11.15`	`Aribeth`	`hheh`
`20:11.28`	`wegstar`	`well yes`
`20:11.31`	`BenUrban`	`LOL`
`20:12.24`	`wegstar`	`not this time ;)`
`20:12.28`	`BenUrban`	`hehe`
`20:12.40`	`BenUrban`	`bah it's 4:20`
`20:12.52`	`Aribeth`	`ewww`
`20:12.53`	`BenUrban`	`and that hd isn't even half done imaging`
`20:12.54`	`wegstar`	`..`
`20:12.55`	`Thumper_`	`it's only 4:13`
`20:13.01`	`BenUrban`	`oops`
`20:13.02`	`BenUrban`	`lol`
`20:13.07`	`BenUrban`	`read the wrong clock`
`20:13.22`	`Aribeth`	`ouch`
`20:13.25`	`Thumper_`	`why would you have a clock that has time+7mins?`
`20:13.31`	`wegstar`	`:(`
`20:13.34`	`BenUrban`	`not me...`
`20:13.36`	`BenUrban`	`clients`
`20:13.41`	`BenUrban`	`with win98 machines`
`20:13.48`	`Thumper_`	`nuf said`
`20:13.50`	`BenUrban`	`indfeed`
`20:13.50`	`Aribeth`	`yuck`
`20:13.51`	`*** join/#bzflag brad2901 (brad@ACD50639.ipt.aol.com)`
`20:13.53`	`BenUrban`	`*indeed`
`20:13.58`	`BenUrban`	`those are the ones that don't boot`
`20:14.04`	`BenUrban`	`well`
`20:14.05`	`Thumper_`	`that's good :)`
`20:14.08`	`BenUrban`	`2/3 of them don't`
`20:14.15`	`jpa-`	`BenUrban: you have safety gloves & mask for handling those?`
`20:14.27`	`BenUrban`	`nope`
`20:14.31`	`BenUrban`	`my boss doesn't provide them`
`20:14.35`	`jpa-`	`poor you`
`20:14.45`	`BenUrban`	`eah`
`20:14.47`	`BenUrban`	`*yeah`
`20:15.08`	`*** part/#bzflag Punkus (~chris@222.153.210.20)`
`20:15.17`	`BenUrban`	`the thing is, if i leave while this hd is still imaging, my boss will yell my ears off because he can't find the hd`
`20:15.22`	`BenUrban`	`even if i leave a note`
`20:15.27`	`BenUrban`	`or 5`
`20:15.33`	`Thumper_`	`you should take that up with blast007... oh nevermind that was too cryptic`
`20:15.37`	`BenUrban`	`lol`
`20:15.41`	`BenUrban`	`indeed it was`
`20:15.57`	`BenUrban`	`hmm`
`20:16.08`	`BenUrban`	`well this thing's not going to boot after it's done imaging anyway...`
`20:17.17`	`wegstar`	`yay!`
`20:17.44`	`BenUrban`	`?`
`20:17.51`	`BenUrban`	`yay that i'm considering cancelling?`
`20:18.40`	`jpa-`	`yay that you exist!`
`20:18.50`	`Aribeth`	`heh`
`20:19.10`	`wegstar`	`...`
`20:19.43`	`wegstar`	`no.. "wegstar__" timed out`
`20:20.06`	`jpa-`	`yay that Aribeth exists too!`
`20:20.27`	`Aribeth`	`:)`
`20:21.31`	`BenUrban`	`hm`
`20:21.38`	`BenUrban`	`my dad can't pick me up until 5`
`20:21.46`	`BenUrban`	`so i guess i'll let it run`
`20:23.17`	`BenUrban`	`figures`
`20:26.19`	`wegstar`	`umm...`
`20:27.02`	`jpa-`	`wegstar: psst...triangle. say triangle.`
`20:27.07`	`*** part/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~jeffm@JeffM2501.sustaining.supporter.pdpc)`
`20:27.36`	`wegstar`	`delta`
`20:28.00`	`Aribeth`	`log`
`20:28.20`	`Aribeth`	`er...right triangle`
`20:31.05`	`*** join/#bzflag EbErT (~EbErT@adsl-219-236-144.asm.bellsouth.net)`
`20:31.40`	`brad2901`	`~bzfquery tankwar.gamesunited.de:5158`
`20:31.45`	`brad2901`	`~bzfquery tankwar.gamesunited.de:5159`
`20:31.54`	`brad2901`	`I can't connect to either :(`
`20:32.00`	`EbErT`	`what's going on?`
`20:32.02`	`brad2901`	`It says: "server not found"`
`20:32.39`	`Tupone`	`brad2901: what version of bzflag ?`
`20:32.49`	`brad2901`	`Oh, I can't connect to any servers`
`20:32.51`	`brad2901`	`2.0.3b3`
`20:33.06`	`blast007`	`brad2901: firewall?`
`20:33.16`	`brad2901`	`I'll give it a try:)`
`20:33.19`	`Tupone`	`have you tried the last one DTRemenak put on bzbb ?`
`20:33.25`	`brad2901`	`nope`
`20:33.28`	`brad2901`	`haven't seen it`
`20:33.52`	`jpa-`	`brad2901: you broke your dns?`
`20:33.59`	`Tupone`	`2.0.3b10 IIRC`
`20:34.04`	`brad2901`	`ok`
`20:34.14`	`brad2901`	`jpa-: I wouldn't know how to :)`
`20:34.22`	`blast007`	`http://my.bzflag.org/builds/2.0.x/bzflag-2.0.3b10.exe`
`20:34.35`	`brad2901`	`Disabled firewall, still doesn't onnect`
`20:34.35`	`brad2901`	`connect`
`20:34.46`	`Aribeth`	`hi EbErT`
`20:35.15`	`Tupone`	`brad2901: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=4494 Testing this will help us`
`20:35.52`	`brad2901`	`I'm downloading now..`
`20:35.59`	`Tupone`	`and you'll enjoy the bleeding edge :)`
`20:36.06`	`brad2901`	`:)`
`20:36.12`	`DTRemenak`	`yaaaay bleeding edge`
`20:36.31`	`blast007`	`oh, and Tupone, I found out why my bzfs wasn't connecting to the list server...turns out it was my firewall`
`20:36.50`	`Tupone`	`ahh, and why the other client worked?`
`20:36.54`	`blast007`	`it wasn't showing the alerts on my session, cuz I was connecting via Remote Desktop`
`20:37.04`	`DTRemenak`	`imagine that...a firewall blocking a connection. they should never do that ;)`
`20:37.20`	`Aribeth`	`heh`
`20:37.29`	`blast007`	`:)`
`20:37.52`	`Aribeth`	`lol`
`20:38.57`	`brad2901`	`and now to test`
`20:39.16`	`wegstar`	`?`
`20:39.24`	`Tupone`	`brad2901: please some mercy to my tank :/`
`20:39.29`	`brad2901`	`heh`
`20:39.51`	`brad2901`	`Is the chat thing supposed to be a lot darker than previous versions?`
`20:40.07`	`Tupone`	`only when not connected`
`20:40.10`	`brad2901`	`oh....`
`20:40.17`	`wegstar`	`hehehe`
`20:40.32`	`brad2901`	`Yay, it connects!`
`20:40.48`	`brad2901`	`And the new client looks awsome :)`
`20:40.58`	`wegstar`	`?`
`20:41.10`	`brad2901`	`All the new effects.... wow`
`20:41.28`	`wegstar`	`oooh.. a new version...`
`20:41.40`	`Tupone`	`I play with all effects disabled. You may turn some on, but be aware they sometime cover your visual`
`20:42.59`	`EbErT`	`wait, is 2.03 out now?`
`20:43.20`	`blast007`	`2.0.3 is a beta version, which will be released officially as 2.0.4`
`20:43.20`	`Aribeth`	`its in cvs`
`20:43.33`	`*** join/#bzflag \|zongo\| (~zongo@84-72-40-59.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`20:43.39`	`Tupone`	`EbErT: it is just a preliminary version, you want to test and complain`
`20:44.55`	`brad2901`	`The score stats look a little messed up though`
`20:45.00`	`*** join/#bzflag RatOmeter (~chatzilla@139.78.95.188)`
`20:45.07`	`brad2901`	`They are quite far apart`
`20:45.26`	`wegstar`	`eeek`
`20:45.28`	`wegstar`	`the icon changed`
`20:47.16`	`blast007`	`yup :)`
`20:47.19`	`wegstar`	`hmm..`
`20:47.37`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@JeffM2501.sustaining.supporter.pdpc)`
`20:47.37`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`20:47.45`	`wegstar`	`looks better`
`20:48.44`	`EbErT`	`ok, just wondering, thought the final version was out`
`20:48.57`	`EbErT`	`i knew that they were working on it`
`20:49.01`	`wegstar`	`:D`
`20:51.29`	`DTRemenak`	`it's their fault!`
`20:53.19`	`Grumbler`	`i bet "them" are the ones that put wings in :)`
`20:53.25`	`wegstar`	`hehehe`
`20:53.30`	`DTRemenak`	`they did, actually`
`20:53.43`	`_Manu_`	`knightmare made it earlier.. lol`
`20:53.49`	`DTRemenak`	`hahaha`
`20:54.03`	`wegstar`	`:D`
`20:55.30`	`RatOmeter`	`speaking of wings (jumping, actually), I envision a variety of auto-pilot to train against to improve my really crappy shot timing while jumping...`
`20:56.13`	`RatOmeter`	`should be an 'easy hack'... make the bot tank mostly stay in one spot, jumping up randomly while firing at you.`
`20:57.00`	`RatOmeter`	`and yes, I'm volunteering myself, just don't expect any fast turnaround. mostly looking for feedback. Worth pursuing?`
`20:58.29`	`brlcad`	`temperature probably`
`20:58.34`	`DTRemenak`	`hehe`
`20:59.39`	`RatOmeter`	`antialiger?`
`21:00.09`	`DTRemenak`	`RatOmeter, literally "against the state of being winged"`
`21:01.25`	`RatOmeter`	`is that a multi-lingual ammalgam?`
`21:01.35`	`DTRemenak`	`nope`
`21:01.45`	`DTRemenak`	`anti = L. against or opposed`
`21:02.04`	`DTRemenak`	`aliger = L. winged, having wings; alt. moving with the speed of flight.`
`21:02.06`	`RatOmeter`	`yah, and aliger, adj. with wings`
`21:02.18`	`RatOmeter`	`just below the prior reach of my vocab`
`21:02.22`	`RatOmeter`	`er, beyond`
`21:02.39`	`DTRemenak`	`hey, a downward-growing stack is nothing to be ashamed of ;)`
`21:03.12`	`RatOmeter`	`makes no diff, my stack pointer gets trashed all the time`
`21:03.30`	`DTRemenak`	`hehe`
`21:03.36`	`RatOmeter`	`RAS. Random Access Stack`
`21:03.54`	`jpa-`	`RFC. Random Function Computer`
`21:04.23`	`RatOmeter`	`That sound very much like a lot of code I've written`
`21:04.24`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)`
`21:04.39`	`wegstar`	`poor modem`
`21:05.25`	`blast007`	`:)`
`21:05.53`	`ToughShooter`	`!weather EDDF`
`21:05.54`	`TheLastSpartan`	`ToughShooter: The current temperature in Frankfurt/main, Germany is 75�F (10:20 PM CEST on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 65%. Dew Point: 63�F. Wind: SSW at 12 mph (18 km/h). Pressure: 29.77 in (1008 hPa). Visibility: 7.0 miles (10.0 kilometers). UV: 0 out of 16`
`21:06.24`	`wegstar`	`!weather KSFO`
`21:06.27`	`TheLastSpartan`	`wegstar: The current temperature in San Francisco International, California (94128) is 71�F (1:56 PM PDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 61%. Dew Point: 57�F. Wind: WNW at 21 mph (33 km/h). Pressure: 29.87 in (1011 hPa). Visibility: 10.0 miles (16.1 kilometers). UV: 11 out of 16`
`21:06.39`	`ToughShooter`	`Look at my daytime...`
`21:06.46`	`wegstar`	`hmph`
`21:07.14`	`RatOmeter`	`Weather wars...`
`21:07.18`	`RatOmeter`	`!weather kswo`
`21:07.20`	`TheLastSpartan`	`RatOmeter: The current temperature in Stillwater Municipal, Oklahoma (74075) is 93�F (3:53 PM CDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 50%. Dew Point: 72�F. Wind: SSE at 9 mph (15 km/h). Pressure: 29.92 in (1013 hPa). Visibility: 10.0 miles (16.1 kilometers). UV: 5 out of 16`
`21:07.28`	`wegstar`	`hmm`
`21:07.45`	`DTRemenak`	`!weather kbur`
`21:07.47`	`TheLastSpartan`	`DTRemenak: The current temperature in Burbank-glendale-pasadena, California (91353) is 87�F (1:53 PM PDT on July 18, 2005). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 43%. Dew Point: 62�F. Pressure: 29.74 in (1007 hPa). Visibility: 6.0 miles (9.7 kilometers). UV: 12 out of 16`
`21:08.15`	`ToughShooter`	`Is there a reason why lag of observer is sorted like all other players? How about putting observers lag first into list. That would make it easier to look if someone lags too much...`
`21:08.16`	`RatOmeter`	`!weather ypad`
`21:08.18`	`TheLastSpartan`	`RatOmeter: The current temperature in Adelaide International, South Australia is 37�F (5:30 AM CST on July 19, 2005). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 36�F. Wind: NNE at 5 mph (7 km/h). Pressure: 30.60 in (1036 hPa). Visibility: 7.0 miles (10.0 kilometers). UV: 0 out of 16`
`21:08.46`	`DTRemenak`	`ToughShooter, or leaving observers out of the lag list altogether? ;)`
`21:09.55`	`RatOmeter`	`WAG, it was easier to code as-is?`
`21:09.57`	`ToughShooter`	`Does that mean there is no reason or am I just asking too naively?`
`21:10.34`	`DTRemenak`	`ToughShooter, that there's no reason, I suppose`
`21:10.51`	`DTRemenak`	`I can't think of any reason to know an observer's lag except maybe my own.`
`21:10.59`	`ToughShooter`	`Is a patch likely to be accepted that takes all observers out of lagstats?`
`21:11.15`	`DTRemenak`	`I would not be opposed to it. I cannot speak for the other devs.`
`21:11.48`	`ToughShooter`	`k, I'll try to make one`
`21:11.56`	`RatOmeter`	`sounds like a simple fix. Maybe as little as 1 line?`
`21:12.00`	`JeffM2501`	`yay only 91 unread emails to go :)`
`21:12.52`	`Tupone`	`My think is, when observer lag, they respond bad to tcp message. So more resource are taken from the server, to buffer message. I don't know if that is worth to note`
`21:13.23`	`DTRemenak`	`JeffM2501, back in town?`
`21:14.19`	`RatOmeter`	`so there might be nearly equal reason to kick an observer and, therefore, they might want to know their lag time?`
`21:14.42`	`blast007`	`it seems like observers always have really high lag`
`21:14.49`	`blast007`	`er, bzadmin ovservers`
`21:15.07`	`Tupone`	`well, that was what I meant`
`21:15.10`	`JeffM2501`	`DTRemenak, I am`
`21:15.19`	`DTRemenak`	`JeffM2501, cool. Have a nice trip?`
`21:15.23`	`JeffM2501`	`at work now checking mail and stuff`
`21:15.25`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah it was fun`
`21:15.26`	`JeffM2501`	`long`
`21:15.30`	`DTRemenak`	`sweet`
`21:15.54`	`DTRemenak`	`Tupone, any idea how to deal with "Too much UDP traffic, will try to catch up later" messages?`
`21:15.55`	`*** join/#bzflag wizart (~wizart@dsl-084-058-152-124.arcor-ip.net)`
`21:16.19`	`DTRemenak`	`do I just need to profile the dang thing and work on reducing time-spent?`
`21:17.06`	`Tupone`	`what happens is that ... normally a loop is done to handle all UDP messages. But if they are going to spend so much time on it, the loop is aborted`
`21:17.18`	`trepan`	`DTRemenak: what are you doing to cause it?`
`21:17.36`	`DTRemenak`	`trepan, I'm not doing anything :) just running the server`
`21:17.44`	`Tupone`	`on a slow machine ?`
`21:17.47`	`DTRemenak`	`on old, slow hardware`
`21:17.47`	`trepan`	`any /command's next to it?`
`21:17.51`	`DTRemenak`	`nope`
`21:18.00`	`DTRemenak`	`get them intermittently`
`21:18.28`	`Tupone`	`I think you hae just to accept it`
`21:18.33`	`DTRemenak`	`bzfs' cpu usage peaks at about 30%, so it's not that`
`21:18.52`	`DTRemenak`	`Tupone, it's unaccptable :(`
`21:18.53`	`trepan`	`ouch, that's 250ms of processing time`
`21:19.04`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, when it happens people get major lagspikes`
`21:19.09`	`DTRemenak`	`sometimes for a minute at a time`
`21:19.46`	`Tupone`	`profile it`
`21:19.52`	`trepan`	`could print out the type and amount of time each command is taking...`
`21:20.09`	`DTRemenak`	`Tupone: heh...that's kinda what I thought you'd say :) thx, just had to make sure`
`21:20.16`	`RatOmeter`	`an RT OS I worked on (proprietary), we'd handle up to MAX_xxx_PACKETS, then exit the loop, leaving the packets queued for the next slice.`
`21:20.30`	`DTRemenak`	`now to figure out how to profile it...`
`21:20.32`	`RatOmeter`	`never overran our queue`
`21:20.35`	`Tupone`	`RatOmeter: that is what we are doing`
`21:21.13`	`Tupone`	`instead of max_no_packet, we use max time serving it`
`21:21.53`	`RatOmeter`	`ah. so an attempt is made to service the rest later?`
`21:21.59`	`Tupone`	`yes`
`21:23.14`	`RatOmeter`	`OK. We cut it off at a number of packets, since our pkt processing was pretty well known. same thing, I guess`
`21:23.24`	`RatOmeter`	`(processing time, that is)`
`21:25.39`	`trepan`	`sometimes ye ole printf debugging is the best way :)`
`21:25.58`	`RatOmeter`	`Is there another kind ;)`
`21:26.16`	`*** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (~jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.pooles.rima-tde.net)`
`21:26.55`	`DTRemenak`	`trepan, too much work ;)`
`21:32.45`	`orchid`	`shouldn't rand() give me a different number each time I call it?`
`21:33.16`	`orchid`	`num = (rand() % 100 + 1);`
`21:33.48`	`orchid`	`to get a number between 1-00, but num is always 84`
`21:34.04`	`wegstar`	`O_o`
`21:34.06`	`wegstar`	`oh`
`21:34.10`	`wegstar`	`that rand()`
`21:34.43`	`wegstar`	`hehe.. I tried making a random map generator once using rand().. the map was always the same`
`21:34.58`	`wegstar`	`umm.. I think you need to give it a seed ?:/`
`21:35.02`	`wegstar`	`srand()`
`21:35.14`	`wegstar`	`with the time and yeah...`
`21:35.17`	`RatOmeter`	`um, that just gives it a different starting point`
`21:35.47`	`DTRemenak`	`yay pseudorandomness`
`21:35.58`	`RatOmeter`	`indeed`
`21:36.13`	`*** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (~44550a37@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`21:37.26`	`RatOmeter`	`orchid: actually, I'm having the same problem, but with Borland's BCC5.5... figured it was a Borland/windows thing`
`21:37.49`	`blast007`	`http://www.phim.unibe.ch/comp_doc/c_manual/C/EXAMPLES/rand.c`
`21:39.41`	`RatOmeter`	`hmm, that sample code works fine for me. Must be and problem between the chair and the keyboard`
`21:39.53`	`RatOmeter`	`in my case`
`21:42.30`	`orchid`	`blast007: that does the trick, thnks`
`21:42.38`	`blast007`	`:)`
`21:45.38`	`trepan`	`be daring, try 'em both at once`
`21:45.49`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`21:46.14`	`RatOmeter`	`if not, you can skip the shower`
`21:46.14`	`DTRemenak`	`definately not`
`21:46.26`	`DTRemenak`	`no, still need a shower for my own comfort`
`21:51.05`	`*** join/#bzflag ruffle (~chatzilla@194.51.78.83.cust.bluewin.ch)`
`21:53.02`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar___ (~foo@adsl-69-109-215-211.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)`
`21:53.42`	`RatOmeter`	`Hmm. what's the timebase for TimeKeeper?`
`21:53.46`	`wegstar___`	`ack!.. my router stopped breathing`
`21:53.58`	`RatOmeter`	`suppose it depends on the platform?`
`21:54.33`	`DTRemenak`	`RatOmeter, the interface returns floating-point seconds`
`21:54.49`	`DTRemenak`	`what it does internally is platform dependent and ugly`
`21:55.05`	`DTRemenak`	`especially on windows`
`21:55.11`	`RatOmeter`	`yes, saw that. surprised me for a moment. Too used to integer-only processors (imbedded stuff)`
`21:55.19`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`21:55.35`	`RatOmeter`	`from the Pentum-something on, there's a hardware timer`
`21:55.42`	`RatOmeter`	`oughta be using that`
`21:55.55`	`DTRemenak`	`what, in assembly? ;)`
`21:56.01`	`RatOmeter`	`uh, yes.`
`21:56.13`	`DTRemenak`	`no assembly in bzflag thanks anyway`
`21:56.39`	`DTRemenak`	`for one thing it runs on more processor types than you can shake a stick at`
`21:56.44`	`RatOmeter`	`every divided a number by multiplying it? That's some of the fun of integer math`
`21:57.26`	`RatOmeter`	`well, there's already plenty of conditional compiles in the code, looks like. It's really just a few instructions to read the timer`
`21:57.49`	`DTRemenak`	`we're working on _eliminating_ conditional compilation not adding more of it`
`21:58.03`	`RatOmeter`	`laudable goal`
`21:58.51`	`DTRemenak`	`most oses expose whatever hardware timer they have access to in a standard form. windows is just crazy.`
`21:59.05`	`trepan`	`should have just emulated gettimeofday() in Windows, nice clean interface`
`21:59.22`	`RatOmeter`	`GetTickCount() or somesuch. Wonder where the number comes from...`
`21:59.49`	`DTRemenak`	`GetTickCount varies if your ticks-per-second varies (e.g. speedstep, powernow)`
`21:59.57`	`RatOmeter`	`Mmm`
`22:00.03`	`RatOmeter`	`nicht gut`
`22:00.28`	`RatOmeter`	`later, lads`
`22:00.44`	`blast007`	`cya`
`22:02.58`	`*** join/#bzflag SportyGal (DonnaCrawf@24-75-159-182.vnnyca.adelphia.net)`
`22:05.54`	`DTRemenak`	`Erwin? Elijah?`
`22:08.37`	`Pimpi`	`hiho`
`22:08.42`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar____ (~foo@adsl-69-109-215-211.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)`
`22:08.50`	`DTRemenak`	`~wake menotume`
`22:08.50`	`ibot`	`menotume: GOOD MORNING!!!`
`22:09.54`	`DTRemenak`	`hehe :)`
`22:10.33`	`Pimpi`	`yo yo`
`22:10.54`	`DTRemenak`	`yo-yos even`
`22:12.08`	`SportyGal`	`bye Pimpi`
`22:12.24`	`Pimpi`	`rrrrrrrzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz`
`22:14.19`	`DTRemenak`	`yodel-eh-HE-ay, yodel-oh-HE-oh, yodel-eeehhh-HEEEE!`
`22:14.38`	`SportyGal`	`~lart DTRemenak`
`22:14.44`	`DTRemenak`	`hehehe`
`22:18.13`	`SportyGal`	`or even the ska`
`22:21.59`	`wegstar`	`...`
`22:23.10`	`*** join/#bzflag knights (~44ee54e0@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`22:23.49`	`knights`	`hello`
`22:23.59`	`knights`	`i bot`
`22:24.01`	`knights`	`ibot`
`22:26.40`	`brlcad`	`hehe`
`22:26.45`	`wegstar`	`heh`
`22:27.22`	`*** join/#bzflag kightsoftheround (~44ee54e0@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`22:27.34`	`kightsoftheround`	`hello all u guys their`
`22:27.45`	`brad2901`	`kights?`
`22:27.49`	`kightsoftheround`	`yes`
`22:27.52`	`blast007`	`some of us are here, some are away`
`22:28.00`	`kightsoftheround`	`hi havent talked in awhile`
`22:28.01`	`blast007`	`but none of us are 'their'`
`22:28.08`	`blast007`	`:)`
`22:28.14`	`Aribeth`	`owwwwie`
`22:28.15`	`kightsoftheround`	`ohh hahh`
`22:28.50`	`Aribeth`	`im never here nor there`
`22:29.19`	`wegstar`	`.`
`22:29.24`	`Aribeth`	`im thinking of removing wings from all my maps`
`22:30.01`	`Aribeth`	`heh`
`22:30.03`	`blast007`	`just crank up the slide time and decrease the wings jump velocity ;)`
`22:30.11`	`DTRemenak`	`Aribeth, why, out of curiosity?`
`22:30.21`	`Aribeth`	`i tried. i got tons of complaints`
`22:30.35`	`blast007`	`ah :/`
`22:30.53`	`Aribeth`	`the not so good players cant counter the players that are really good with it`
`22:30.53`	`blast007`	`I don't think wings is sensible`
`22:31.11`	`DTRemenak`	`that's why I said default-settings. ONE jump`
`22:31.19`	`brlcad`	`the not so good players can't really counter getting shot either ;)`
`22:31.29`	`Aribeth`	`nope`
`22:31.45`	`SportyGal`	`menotume: HI!! you and tupone need to chat!`
`22:32.21`	`Tupone`	`menotume: two of us are too much for this chat ...`
`22:32.29`	`Tupone`	`one have to leave`
`22:32.41`	`trepan`	`Aribeth: what's your current setup, that's getting the complaints?`
`22:33.05`	`trepan`	`jumpCount/jumpVel/slideTime/grav`
`22:33.42`	`Aribeth`	`basicaly giza is set to 10 jumps`
`22:33.54`	`Aribeth`	`i need to lower it`
`22:33.57`	`menotume`	`hmm, huh, whaaaaaaaaaa ?`
`22:34.02`	`trepan`	`heh, and no slide, and no vel/grav adjustments?`
`22:34.30`	`menotume`	`SportyGal: how about using a local.group for antiban`
`22:34.32`	`*** join/#bzflag purple_cow (~jupiter@zero.navi.cx)`
`22:34.32`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o purple_cow] by ChanServ`
`22:34.35`	`Aribeth`	`i did that at ziggy and got lots of complaints, so i removed the flag`
`22:34.45`	`Aribeth`	`no more complaints there`
`22:35.41`	`menotume`	`it's not an easy fix IMHO. depends on which of 2 methods are used to 'fix' it`
`22:36.06`	`Tupone`	`menotume: :)`
`22:36.21`	`menotume`	`agree, Tupone ?`
`22:36.25`	`SportyGal`	`menotume: our usergroup for antiban is a global group - then we'd have to have a local and a global one to combat hostbans & ip bans - seems silly`
`22:36.28`	`menotume`	`TimRiker: pingorama`
`22:36.45`	`menotume`	`ok, patches welcome, then`
`22:36.51`	`Tupone`	`we should have to delete the answer to the enter`
`22:37.06`	`Tupone`	`s/delete/delay/`
`22:37.06`	`menotume`	`i think we need a duiscussion on how to fix anti-ban`
`22:37.20`	`menotume`	`it may affect bzfs auth in general`
`22:37.34`	`menotume`	`here's the problem .....`
`22:37.45`	`menotume`	`global antiban doesn't work`
`22:37.52`	`Tupone`	`:)`
`22:38.18`	`SportyGal`	`menotume: may I interject here?`
`22:38.22`	`menotume`	`because, a player is check for banning before auth (and group info) is ever rexed from bzfls`
`22:38.29`	`menotume`	`ya`
`22:38.32`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar____ (~foo@adsl-69-109-215-211.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)`
`22:38.53`	`menotume`	`but, SportyGal, you submit bugs, why not patches? :D`
`22:38.56`	`SportyGal`	`menotume, Timriker: I'm not entirely sure it's the global that doesn't work. I DO know, however, that antiban will not work to overcome a numerical ip or ip-range ban, whether done locally or globally`
`22:39.10`	`menotume`	`right`
`22:39.26`	`menotume`	`thx, SportyGal :)`
`22:39.43`	`*** join/#bzflag wegstar____ (~foo@adsl-69-109-215-211.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net)`
`22:40.04`	`Tupone`	`hostban works only if dns answer takes more time than authentication`
`22:40.16`	`menotume`	`not exactly true`
`22:40.17`	`Tupone`	`menotume: agree ?`
`22:40.29`	`menotume`	`ohhh, yes, for hostban`
`22:40.46`	`Tupone`	`I meant antihostban :)`
`22:41.10`	`menotume`	`but if IP bans, antiban won't work at all - unless the player is on at the time of the ban, and it's not a mask`
`22:41.30`	`menotume`	`for example: /ban 24.0.0.0`
`22:41.50`	`menotume`	`now, no one can join from that mask - EVEN if they have ANTIBAN prov`
`22:41.58`	`menotume`	`priv`
`22:42.08`	`Tupone`	`menotume: I saw the code, and I 'm sure you are right`
`22:43.03`	`menotume`	`then, rejected or acepted when auth response rxed`
`22:43.05`	`Tupone`	`No need for a queue, why that FIFO?`
`22:43.12`	`*** join/#bzflag Rusure (~1815d19e@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`22:43.12`	`trepan`	`so make everyone wait a little longer, or allow the baddies in for a little while?`
`22:43.16`	`Tupone`	`We just need to delay the answer`
`22:43.19`	`menotume`	`right`
`22:43.43`	`menotume`	`well, as long as we send _something_, like "waiting for auth"`
`22:44.01`	`menotume`	`trepan: right`
`22:44.03`	`Tupone`	`we don't need, we just don't send anything`
`22:44.19`	`Tupone`	`they cannot join if we don't send them the team, flag, and all`
`22:44.31`	`menotume`	`but, i know i have a problem when joining a 'must be globally reged' server, if i spawn too soon`
`22:44.53`	`menotume`	`yes, but if there's a delay - it looks like the server is dead`
`22:45.09`	`menotume`	`we don't _have_ to, it would just be nice`
`22:45.15`	`Tupone`	`so, don't send the answer, wait for authentication and dns, then apply ban, and send the answer`
`22:45.36`	`*** join/#bzflag Rusure (~1815d19e@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`22:45.41`	`menotume`	`ok, and how about time-outs ?`
`22:45.44`	`trepan`	`user feedback is a good thing`
`22:46.06`	`menotume`	`eg: listserver is down or very slow`
`22:46.19`	`Tupone`	`timeout, and no authentication`
`22:46.23`	`menotume`	`and, global reg is NOT required to play`
`22:46.53`	`SportyGal`	`when you first join, it says "trying server" or some such thing - can you just delay the actual connection until authentication process is complete or is that too much work?`
`22:47.00`	`Tupone`	`if not token in, we don't wait for authemtication`
`22:47.17`	`menotume`	`Tupone: right, agreed`
`22:47.23`	`Tupone`	`SportyGal: it is too much work, but I think we have to do`
`22:48.04`	`menotume`	`is porbably easier to delay, than acually send omse kind of 'WAK' msg`
`22:48.47`	`menotume`	`ok good..... is it done yet, Tupone ?`
`22:48.57`	`menotume`	`:)`
`22:49.06`	`Tupone`	`if you wait a couple of minute, I'm testing`
`22:49.07`	`menotume`	`we ceratainly don't want to have to change the client for this`
`22:49.12`	`menotume`	`nokies :)`
`22:49.16`	`menotume`	`i guess i can wait`
`22:49.22`	`Tupone`	`lol`
`22:49.50`	`trepan`	`here's 1 way: make them wait for auth for TIME_MIN (10 secs?), if TIME_MIN elapses (busted db or something), let them it, but stick them in a list that's checked periodically`
`22:50.31`	`menotume`	`yep`
`22:50.31`	`Tupone`	`but ... if it is an antiban you have kicked the guy`
`22:50.49`	`menotume`	`i think he says to let them in`
`22:50.58`	`Tupone`	`if that is normal registration, if you play with a registered nick you were kicked now`
`22:51.29`	`Tupone`	`playing with a registered nick without authentication is a crime in some server`
`22:51.39`	`menotume`	`right`
`22:51.48`	`Tupone`	`so why continue checking ?`
`22:52.04`	`Tupone`	`if that is easy, ok, but we don't need. We gain nothing IMHO`
`22:52.15`	`menotume`	`only continue checking if marked for ban i guess`
`22:52.21`	`Tupone`	`lol`
`22:52.30`	`menotume`	`to see if ther's an antiban`
`22:52.36`	`Tupone`	`a guy require authentication to be banned ?`
`22:52.37`	`menotume`	`getting a bit complex now, though`
`22:52.52`	`menotume`	`the ban info is local, yes ?`
`22:53.19`	`menotume`	`no, requires auth to see if ANTIBAN applies`
`22:53.31`	`Tupone`	`dunno, I think so. So when you burn it ?`
`22:53.43`	`menotume`	`got me :)`
`22:53.46`	`kightsoftheround`	`whats up alll`
`22:53.56`	`SportyGal`	`menotume: yes, ban is usually local`
`22:53.58`	`menotume`	`i guess you don't`
`22:54.15`	`menotume`	`if you get a replay form ls, you do whatever`
`22:54.31`	`menotume`	`if not reply - oh well, a person who is supposed to be banned is playing`
`22:54.47`	`menotume`	`Tim, you talk too much !`
`22:54.53`	`Tupone`	`and if listserver is down?`
`22:55.05`	`menotume`	`then, no reply :)`
`22:55.05`	`Tupone`	`or slow, to take minute?`
`22:55.20`	`Tupone`	`you let burned :) playerr to play ?`
`22:55.29`	`menotume`	`yes...`
`22:55.39`	`Tupone`	`good :/`
`22:55.41`	`menotume`	`this is only after the first 10-second timeout, right ?`
`22:55.57`	`menotume`	`o, i c`
`22:56.05`	`menotume`	`would be better to just ban`
`22:56.10`	`Tupone`	`yeah :)`
`22:56.22`	`menotume`	`if the person was supposed to be antibanned, oh well`
`22:56.26`	`SportyGal`	`are you saying that if it can't connect to authenticate, you'll let a banned player play until authentication/anti-ban can be checked`
`22:56.37`	`menotume`	`yes, no and maybe`
`22:56.51`	`menotume`	`we have to go eone way or the other`
`22:57.07`	`menotume`	`either let a banned person play, or an anti-banned person be banned`
`22:57.09`	`Tupone`	`SportyGal: I'm saying the opposite. If a player is banned, it is waiting for authentication before entering the game`
`22:57.31`	`menotume`	`ahh, then in that case, increase the timeout`
`22:57.31`	`SportyGal`	`menotume: I'm more in favor of letting anti-banned person be banned`
`22:57.33`	`Tupone`	`if authentication unban it, go, otherwise kicked`
`22:57.44`	`menotume`	`yes, i like that`
`22:58.00`	`menotume`	`if banned, increase the timeout from 10 seconds to whatever`
`22:58.04`	`SportyGal`	`Tupone: yes, I like that`
`22:58.11`	`SportyGal`	`and menotume, too`
`22:58.16`	`menotume`	`:)`
`22:58.44`	`Tupone`	`menotume: no timeout, we should wait the answer from listserver. it comes back ok or not ok`
`22:58.56`	`Tupone`	`no wait to not come back`
`22:59.10`	`Tupone`	`Should trap any curl error`
`22:59.27`	`trepan`	`curl will do the timeout then?`
`22:59.38`	`Tupone`	`yeah, I'll go for that`
`22:59.44`	`menotume`	`ok, good enough`
`22:59.49`	`trepan`	`what's the curl timeout?`
`22:59.57`	`trepan`	`(for db accesses...)`
`23:00.01`	`Tupone`	`whatever you want :)`
`23:00.05`	`trepan`	`what is it now`
`23:00.21`	`Tupone`	`not setted, I guess 60 sec`
`23:00.21`	`menotume`	`but, there really should be some user feedback`
`23:00.32`	`menotume`	`esp if no ls reply :)`
`23:00.45`	`Tupone`	`if feedback means client change, I'd postpone`
`23:00.50`	`menotume`	`agreed`
`23:01.00`	`menotume`	`just a chat msg ?`
`23:01.14`	`menotume`	`can that be done if player is not 'joined' ?`
`23:02.10`	`Tupone`	`I don't know, have to check. That is why my sentence`
`23:02.21`	`Tupone`	`the If is for that :)`
`23:03.46`	`*** join/#bzflag EbErT (~EbErT@adsl-219-236-144.asm.bellsouth.net)`
`23:04.22`	`menotume`	`:)`
`23:05.57`	`*** join/#bzflag ElectricElf (~david@ElectricElf.developer.debian)`
`23:06.38`	`Tupone`	`DTRemenak: OTQ where I can get the mail message on windowsXP. Need to save before reinstalling. Not my PC :)`
`23:08.23`	`Tupone`	`any other windows guy ?`
`23:10.59`	`blast007`	`using outlook or outlook express?`
`23:12.31`	`Tupone`	`outlook express`
`23:12.39`	`blast007`	`I know there is a .pst file for outlook, that contains messages and contacts`
`23:13.05`	`blast007`	`typically in c:\documents and settings\<username>\Local Settings\Application Data\Outlook (I think)`
`23:13.11`	`Tupone`	`any hint on outlook express`
`23:13.16`	`menotume`	`something like that, yes`
`23:13.19`	`trepan`	`sendMessage() works in addPlayer(), feedback is easy`
`23:13.31`	`menotume`	`goodie :)`
`23:14.00`	`menotume`	`Tupone: it should be roughly the same place`
`23:14.11`	`blast007`	`http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb%3Ben-us%3B270670`
`23:14.17`	`menotume`	`there should be 1 or 2 files for each folder, iirc`
`23:14.34`	`Tupone`	`I saw nothing in the folder`
`23:14.50`	`blast007`	`(that microsoft link should help)`
`23:15.49`	`menotume`	`might be ..../Application Data/Microshaft/ ...`
`23:16.21`	`blast007`	`yeah, I've never used it on this computer, so none of the locations exist`
`23:16.29`	`blast007`	`I use outlook at work though`
`23:19.38`	`Tupone`	`M$ support info works good`
`23:19.59`	`Tupone`	`menotume: wake me when you have ended coding it`
`23:21.19`	`SportyGal`	`~Tupone++`
`23:21.23`	`SportyGal`	`~menotume++`
`23:21.32`	`SportyGal`	`~trepan++`
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