irclog2html for #bzflag on 20051012

`00:09.22`	`Grumbler`	`~seen SportChick`
`00:09.25`	`ibot`	`sportchick is currently on #bzflag (1d 8h 8m 12s). Has said a total of 3 messages. Is idling for 18h 42m 36s`
`00:12.37`	`*** part/#bzflag I_Died_Once (n=mofo@pcp0010382004pcs.savana01.ga.comcast.net)`
`00:16.16`	`JeffM2501`	`I did`
`00:16.25`	`JeffM2501`	`or he could leave`
`00:33.33`	`*** join/#bzflag PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)`
`01:02.30`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/audio/ (inc/audio.h src/audio.cpp):`
`01:02.30`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: notification when jobs are done`
`01:02.30`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: clearing of dead jobs`
`01:02.30`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: Hardware 3D audio`
`01:06.08`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@2002:45a6:86ae:0:0:0:0:1)`
`01:21.15`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)`
`01:21.15`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ`
`01:23.14`	`Thumper_`	`JeffM2501: ping`
`01:23.36`	`JeffM2501`	`?`
`01:23.45`	`Thumper_`	`hi plugins... i have a question`
`01:23.50`	`JeffM2501`	`k`
`01:23.51`	`Thumper_`	`the team data`
`01:24.09`	`Thumper_`	`there is an enum ni the bzfsAPI.h`
`01:24.17`	`Thumper_`	`but it doesn't seem to be correct`
`01:24.22`	`Thumper_`	`when I join as an observer`
`01:24.23`	`Thumper_`	`the value is 5`
`01:24.27`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah it was wrong`
`01:24.29`	`JeffM2501`	`it was fixed`
`01:24.30`	`JeffM2501`	`get cvs`
`01:24.34`	`Thumper_`	`but not = eObservers`
`01:24.36`	`Thumper_`	`ok thanks.`
`01:24.38`	`Thumper_`	`end of question :)`
`01:24.45`	`Thumper_`	`I've got a snapshot of 2.0.4`
`01:24.53`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah it is busted past the team colors there`
`01:24.56`	`JeffM2501`	`meno found it`
`01:25.07`	`Thumper_`	`cvs is still compatible with 2.0.4 I assume`
`01:25.11`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`01:25.19`	`Thumper_`	`any idea when (or if) a protocol change is going to happen?`
`01:26.32`	`JeffM2501`	`when somone changes it`
`01:26.41`	`JeffM2501`	`probalby not till after 2.0.6 I'd guess`
`01:26.43`	`Thumper_`	`:D okay`
`01:26.46`	`Thumper_`	`thanks.`
`01:30.32`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/audio/ (inc/audio.h src/audio.cpp):`
`01:30.32`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: add per channel volume and pan`
`01:30.32`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: add startup options to set max channels and stream buffer`
`01:31.50`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/client/src/client.cpp: read in volumes and startup settings from config`
`01:38.42`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`01:38.42`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`01:46.40`	`*** join/#bzflag bz8268 (n=443898c3@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`01:47.44`	`bz8268`	`~bzfquery ozsoft.biz:5157`
`01:48.29`	`bz8268`	`can someone please help me ?`
`01:54.06`	`SportChick`	`Grumbler: ping`
`01:57.32`	`Thumper_`	`okay... so I update cvs and the plugin teams are fixed... but the plugins won't load anymore :/`
`01:58.45`	`*** join/#bzflag cody6375 (n=443898c3@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`01:59.21`	`cody6375`	`~bzfquery ozsoft.biz:5157`
`01:59.53`	`*** join/#bzflag RPG_ (n=Garrett@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net)`
`02:00.45`	`cody6375`	`hi rpg`
`02:00.58`	`RPG_`	`hi cody person`
`02:01.20`	`cody6375`	`do you know how to get a server started for bzflag?`
`02:01.44`	`RPG_`	`yes`
`02:02.19`	`cody6375`	`I'm having problemms with it would you please help me?`
`02:02.29`	`RPG_`	`sure`
`02:03.05`	`cody6375`	`can you see ibot said it could not find the server`
`02:03.17`	`cody6375`	`tell me what I need to do please`
`02:03.37`	`RPG_`	`what have you done already?`
`02:04.04`	`cody6375`	`can i send the config file to you?`
`02:04.10`	`RPG_`	`dutr`
`02:04.11`	`RPG_`	`sure`
`02:04.44`	`cody6375`	`how?`
`02:05.26`	`RPG_`	`http://bzflag.pastebin.ca`
`02:06.50`	`Grumbler`	`SportChick, pong`
`02:07.19`	`cody6375`	`okay sent`
`02:07.50`	`RPG_`	`now give me the link to it ;)`
`02:08.35`	`Grumbler`	`.....also report your firewall settings, since you probably have to open a couple ports for bzflag to be listed on the list server`
`02:09.11`	`cody6375`	`http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/25282`
`02:09.25`	`RPG_`	`~dns ozsoft.biz`
`02:09.55`	`RPG_`	`your flag settings contradict each other`
`02:09.59`	`RPG_`	`remove the last 3 lines of the file`
`02:10.18`	`RPG_`	`you're telling it to put in good flags, then you're telling it to take out good flags`
`02:10.56`	`cody6375`	`okay I took thenm out`
`02:11.18`	`RPG_`	`alright, do you have a firewall?`
`02:11.46`	`cody6375`	`yes i think`
`02:12.14`	`cody6375`	`it's off`
`02:12.20`	`RPG_`	`Do you have a router?`
`02:12.22`	`SportChick`	`Grumbler: you were looking for me?`
`02:13.05`	`cody6375`	`yes and the the port was set to 5157`
`02:13.15`	`Aribeth`	`hiya Sporty`
`02:13.32`	`RPG_`	`eh?`
`02:13.42`	`RPG_`	`cody6375: do you know what port forwarding is?`
`02:13.57`	`cody6375`	`nope`
`02:14.06`	`RPG_`	`allright, let's start there`
`02:14.09`	`RPG_`	`www.portforward.com`
`02:14.25`	`RPG_`	`what's the manufacturer of your rtoure?`
`02:15.28`	`cody6375`	`netgear`
`02:15.32`	`Grumbler`	`rtoure....is that french for router :)`
`02:15.58`	`RPG_`	`do you knwo the model nubmer?`
`02:16.53`	`cody6375`	`rt314`
`02:17.25`	`cody6375`	`Grumbler that is funny`
`02:18.00`	*** join/#bzflag blast007` (i=blast007@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)
`02:18.53`	`RPG_`	`well, portforward.com gives no help about you, so you're gonna just have to bear with me`
`02:19.06`	`RPG_`	`put this in your browser URL line:`
`02:19.06`	`RPG_`	`http://192.168.1.1/`
`02:19.18`	`RPG_`	`you should be prompted for a user/pass`
`02:20.13`	`Grumbler`	`(almost all netgears have the same software i/f.......but with my luck lately, this one would be different(`
`02:20.33`	`RPG_`	`Grumbler: do you know anythign about them?`
`02:20.37`	`RPG_`	`i have a linksys myself`
`02:20.53`	`cody6375`	`Protected Object`
`02:20.53`	`cody6375`	`This object on the RT314 is protected`
`02:21.20`	`RPG_`	`for the usernaem, type "admin", for password, type "1234"`
`02:21.34`	`cody6375`	`I know how to get into it`
`02:22.04`	`RPG_`	`oh, well then ;)`
`02:22.06`	`RPG_`	`:)`
`02:22.11`	`cody6375`	`sorry`
`02:22.14`	`RPG_`	`get into it`
`02:22.19`	`cody6375`	`I in`
`02:22.25`	`cody6375`	`i'm in`
`02:23.05`	`*** join/#bzflag Naka (n=chatzill@dialup-4.248.236.54.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net)`
`02:23.19`	`RPG_`	`Is there a button that says something similar to "Port Forwarding"`
`02:24.32`	`cody6375`	`yes and this is where we input 5157 to the ip address 192.168.0.2 which is my pc`
`02:25.09`	`RPG_`	`192.168.0.2, are you 100% sure that's yoru lan address?`
`02:25.20`	`cody6375`	`yes`
`02:25.44`	`cody6375`	`how 3would I make sure`
`02:25.50`	`RPG_`	`are your forwarding UDP and TCP packets?`
`02:25.51`	`cody6375`	`?`
`02:26.16`	`RPG_`	`are you on windwos?`
`02:26.20`	`cody6375`	`yes`
`02:26.37`	`RPG_`	`i think if you type "ipinfo" in a command prompt you can see yoru LAN ip`
`02:26.44`	`cody6375`	`ok`
`02:27.51`	`cody6375`	`nope didn't work`
`02:29.15`	`cody6375`	`it's ipconfig`
`02:29.22`	`RPG_`	`errr probably`
`02:29.24`	`RPG_`	`i'm not on windows now`
`02:30.03`	`cody6375`	`yes it's 192.168.0.2`
`02:30.06`	`RPG_`	`ok`
`02:30.13`	`RPG_`	`start up the server again`
`02:30.36`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=jeffm@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`02:30.36`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`02:31.08`	`cody6375`	`it says it's started now do I have to be in it ?`
`02:31.14`	`RPG_`	`no you don't`
`02:31.18`	`cody6375`	`ok`
`02:31.21`	`RPG_`	`~bzfquery ozsoft.biz:5157`
`02:31.26`	`RPG_`	`~dns ozsoft.biz`
`02:31.40`	`RPG_`	`~bzfquery 68.56.152.195:5157`
`02:31.59`	`RPG_`	`what ISP do you use, cody?`
`02:32.49`	`cody6375`	`comcast'`
`02:33.57`	`RPG_`	`i'm out of ideas`
`02:34.05`	`cody6375`	`:(`
`02:34.08`	`RPG_`	`you sure you don't have a firewall?`
`02:34.23`	`JeffM2501`	`router?`
`02:34.24`	`cody6375`	`I turned it off`
`02:34.32`	`RPG_`	`we went through the router steps`
`02:34.34`	`cody6375`	`yes I have a router`
`02:34.41`	`JeffM2501`	`you do a port forward?`
`02:34.46`	`cody6375`	`yes`
`02:34.51`	`JeffM2501`	`both TCP and UDP?`
`02:34.56`	`RPG_`	`i'm confuzzled`
`02:35.06`	`cody6375`	`i believe so`
`02:35.40`	`JeffM2501`	`any reason your not using the standard port?`
`02:35.53`	`cody6375`	`nope 5154 ??`
`02:36.04`	`cody6375`	`I can change it back`
`02:36.09`	`JeffM2501`	`back to?`
`02:36.30`	`JeffM2501`	`can you connect localy?`
`02:36.30`	`cody6375`	`5154 it's set to 5157 right now`
`02:36.44`	`cody6375`	`to the router ?`
`02:36.49`	`JeffM2501`	`wan 5254 -> lan 5157 ?`
`02:38.14`	`cody6375`	`we have a lan network here`
`02:38.25`	`JeffM2501`	`I gathered that`
`02:38.32`	`JeffM2501`	`did you set 54 to route to 57 on your router?`
`02:39.18`	`JeffM2501`	`or is 57 maping right to 57?`
`02:39.33`	`*** join/#bzflag Inferno (n=SURE@71-10-74-157.dhcp.dlth.mn.charter.com)`
`02:39.49`	`Inferno`	`What options do I set to get on the list server?`
`02:39.56`	`JeffM2501`	`-public`
`02:40.06`	`JeffM2501`	`and make sure your publicly accessable`
`02:40.37`	`Inferno`	`thx`
`02:40.58`	`cody6375`	`it say start port 5157 end port 5157 and then 192.168.0.2`
`02:41.03`	`Inferno`	`um, so i put in "-public beaulieubrothers.com:80"`
`02:41.21`	`JeffM2501`	`cody6375, did you do -p 5157 in your config?`
`02:41.29`	`cody6375`	`yes`
`02:41.31`	`Grumbler`	`cody6375, make sure you hit apply in both sets of forwarding windows with netgear`
`02:41.39`	`JeffM2501`	`Inferno, no you don't need the addy there, just put your description`
`02:41.55`	`JeffM2501`	`Inferno, if you want to have a domain name then put that in -publicaddr`
`02:41.57`	`JeffM2501`	`with out the port`
`02:41.57`	`Inferno`	`ok, thx`
`02:42.01`	`JeffM2501`	`and -p for the port`
`02:42.08`	`JeffM2501`	`you are really running on 80?`
`02:42.14`	`Inferno`	`yeah`
`02:42.26`	`JeffM2501`	`bzfs as root, brave man :)`
`02:42.36`	`Inferno`	`I donno`
`02:42.50`	`Inferno`	`it's a webserver...`
`02:43.10`	`JeffM2501`	`not anymore :)`
`02:43.10`	`cody6375`	`hmmm,.,,,,`
`02:43.18`	`JeffM2501`	`not if you are running bzfs on port 80`
`02:43.25`	`JeffM2501`	`cus then http won't be using 80`
`02:44.06`	`*** join/#bzflag bz2426 (n=cba660ef@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`02:44.51`	`bz2426`	`:(`
`02:44.53`	`Inferno`	`I know, I'm not that dumb`
`02:45.05`	`Inferno`	`it's only tempiral`
`02:45.08`	`Inferno`	`it's only temporal`
`02:45.28`	`JeffM2501`	`it is the time part of the time space continum? ;)`
`02:45.41`	`JeffM2501`	`well all you need is -plublic and -publicaddr`
`02:46.23`	`bz2426`	`does anyone know any free cgi irc sites that let me connect to other servers instead of just their specified one?`
`02:47.02`	`Naka`	`does anyone here like to see rare clouds?>`
`02:48.42`	`Inferno`	`JeffM2501, it's not showing up??`
`02:48.57`	`cody6375`	`same with mine`
`02:49.18`	`JeffM2501`	`cody6375, I can't even GET to you`
`02:49.33`	`JeffM2501`	`Inferno, run with -ddd and see if you see it contact the list server`
`02:49.46`	`Naka`	`-d -d -d?`
`02:49.51`	`Inferno`	`k`
`02:49.55`	`JeffM2501`	`that or -ddd`
`02:49.59`	`JeffM2501`	`same thing`
`02:50.06`	`JeffM2501`	`ohh Inferno 80 probably won't work`
`02:50.13`	`JeffM2501`	`the list server can't get out on 80 I don't think`
`02:50.16`	`JeffM2501`	`to verify you`
`02:50.22`	`JeffM2501`	`can't you use a real port?`
`02:51.47`	`Inferno`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:52.09`	`cody6375`	`:(`
`02:52.11`	`Inferno`	`did you like my map?`
`02:52.14`	`JeffM2501`	`hmm no, that's not it`
`02:52.20`	`JeffM2501`	`there is a server on 22`
`02:52.28`	`JeffM2501`	`so 80 should work`
`02:52.36`	`JeffM2501`	`what did you put for -public and -publicaddr`
`02:52.49`	`JeffM2501`	`cody6375, does your server even show up localy?`
`02:52.59`	`Inferno`	`-public 80 -publicaddr beaulieubrothers.com -p 80`
`02:53.10`	`Inferno`	`-public HI -publicaddr beaulieubrothers.com -p 80`
`02:53.17`	`JeffM2501`	`hmm that should work`
`02:53.32`	`JeffM2501`	`run with the -d stuff and see what it says`
`02:53.37`	`JeffM2501`	`if you get any list server errors`
`02:53.49`	`Inferno`	`BTW, it is contacting the server and everything is working ecept...`
`02:54.01`	`Inferno`	`I did, it worked`
`02:54.20`	`JeffM2501`	`did you see the list server join and disconnect?`
`02:54.31`	`Inferno`	`yeah`
`02:54.32`	`Naka`	`yay?`
`02:55.20`	`Inferno`	`on "-ddd" it showed me the get header...and it had "connection close" and that was it`
`02:55.35`	`Inferno`	`I didn't get a response from the server...`
`02:56.00`	`JeffM2501`	`so the server could not get back to you`
`02:56.11`	`Inferno`	`oh, so what now?`
`02:56.16`	`JeffM2501`	`you see a player type join and disconnect when it pings you`
`02:56.32`	`JeffM2501`	`well try puting :80 after the publicaddr`
`02:56.37`	`Inferno`	`ok`
`02:56.38`	`JeffM2501`	`other then that I dono`
`02:57.17`	`cody6375`	`~bzfquery ozsoft.biz:5154`
`02:57.31`	`Inferno`	`YAY, that was it!!!`
`02:57.40`	`Inferno`	`all I needed was the port in it`
`02:57.44`	`JeffM2501`	`cool`
`02:57.49`	`cody6375`	`~bzfquery ozsoft.biz:5154`
`02:57.50`	`Inferno`	`thx alot`
`02:58.01`	`JeffM2501`	`cody6375, good, you got your route set`
`02:58.05`	`cody6375`	`i think mine is also working`
`02:58.24`	`JeffM2501`	`now put -public "some server description" and -publicaddr ozsoft.biz in your config`
`02:58.33`	`Naka`	`Let another job done`
`02:58.34`	`JeffM2501`	`if you don't have it in there allraady`
`02:58.41`	`JeffM2501`	`huzzah`
`02:58.44`	`cody6375`	`they are there`
`02:58.45`	`Naka`	`yet*`
`02:58.53`	`JeffM2501`	`are you listed?`
`02:59.06`	`cody6375`	`i don't knoiw how to tell`
`02:59.11`	`Inferno`	`it really sucks that it has :80 in the server list though, "smart people" will think twice before joining`
`02:59.12`	`JeffM2501`	`run a lcient`
`02:59.18`	`JeffM2501`	`do you see your domain name in the list`
`02:59.33`	`cody6375`	`run what ?`
`02:59.38`	`JeffM2501`	`a client`
`02:59.39`	`JeffM2501`	`the game`
`02:59.44`	`cody6375`	`ok`
`02:59.47`	`Inferno`	`bzflag.exe`
`03:01.05`	`cody6375`	`okay I'm a little confussed now how to I start the game and start a client also?`
`03:02.54`	`*** join/#bzflag lan56 (i=lan56@user-vcauvv9.dsl.mindspring.com)`
`03:03.52`	`Naka`	`?`
`03:04.03`	`JeffM2501`	`the game IS the client`
`03:04.05`	`JeffM2501`	`just run bzflag`
`03:04.08`	`JeffM2501`	`the thing you play`
`03:04.13`	`JeffM2501`	`with the tanks`
`03:04.24`	`JeffM2501`	`and the ping-pong balls`
`03:04.27`	`JeffM2501`	`and the shooting`
`03:04.31`	`cody6375`	`lol funny`
`03:04.46`	`Naka`	`I thought they were over radiated potatoes`
`03:04.49`	`cody6375`	`it comes up as local host on my server'`
`03:05.12`	`JeffM2501`	`see if you see it again in the list`
`03:05.31`	`JeffM2501`	`or check http://my.bzflag.org/db/?action=LIST`
`03:07.24`	`cody6375`	`yes I seen it but it does not say ozsoft. it says comcast`
`03:07.38`	`JeffM2501`	`what do you have for publicaddr ?`
`03:07.47`	`cody6375`	`ozsoft.biz`
`03:08.05`	`JeffM2501`	`what is the full exact line in your confg for that?`
`03:08.26`	`cody6375`	`# This is also needed to be listed on the public server list. The`
`03:08.26`	`cody6375`	`# address needs to be valid in DNS.`
`03:08.26`	`cody6375`	`-publicaddr ozsoft.biz:5154`
`03:08.41`	`JeffM2501`	`take out the : part`
`03:08.46`	`JeffM2501`	`and a -p if you have it`
`03:08.53`	`JeffM2501`	`you don't need the : for the default port`
`03:09.02`	`cody6375`	`ok`
`03:09.45`	`cody6375`	`-publicaddr ozsoft.biz is this what the line should look like ?`
`03:09.54`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`03:10.04`	`JeffM2501`	`and if you have a -p 5154 line, take it out`
`03:10.19`	`cody6375`	`im do`
`03:11.33`	`JeffM2501`	`take it out`
`03:11.42`	`SportChick`	`!weather 90277`
`03:11.47`	`TheLastSpartan`	`SportChick: The current temperature in Weather Underground is 61�F.`
`03:11.50`	`SportChick`	`brrrrr`
`03:12.08`	`JeffM2501`	`all the east coasters are going to beat you up now SportChick :)`
`03:12.25`	`blast007`	`Weather Underground?`
`03:12.30`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a lovely night, just like we pay for`
`03:12.47`	`JeffM2501`	`!weather 93021`
`03:12.49`	`TheLastSpartan`	`JeffM2501: The current temperature in Weather Underground is 51�F.`
`03:13.13`	`Grumbler`	`heh, weather underground`
`03:13.22`	`JeffM2501`	`porbably a page or RSS change`
`03:13.32`	`cody6375`	`it's still comming up as cody.hsdl.fl.comcast.net`
`03:14.02`	`JeffM2501`	`cody6375, your not in the list as that`
`03:14.05`	`JeffM2501`	`not in the real list`
`03:14.10`	`JeffM2501`	`that's your lan discovery`
`03:14.28`	`cody6375`	`okay I'm lost now`
`03:14.29`	`JeffM2501`	`run with -ddd and see what it says`
`03:14.45`	`blast007`	`run the server, and let use see what it shows`
`03:15.02`	`cody6375`	`I think I'm starting this thing wrong`
`03:15.16`	`cody6375`	`i start the server in windows`
`03:16.11`	`cody6375`	`it's started`
`03:16.40`	`blast007`	`not seeing it on the list, even when I search for the IP`
`03:16.55`	`cody6375`	`~bzfquery ozsoft.biz:5157`
`03:17.08`	`blast007`	`~bzfquery ozsoft.biz`
`03:18.04`	`cody6375`	`it shopws I'm on page 3 second from the bottom`
`03:18.08`	`blast007`	`you sure you have -public in your config?`
`03:18.22`	`cody6375`	`let me chack again`
`03:18.26`	`blast007`	`it only shows for you, cuz it's on your local network`
`03:19.02`	`JeffM2501`	`thanks blast`
`03:19.12`	`cody6375`	`-public "ozsoft BZFlag server - we are still learnings"`
`03:19.19`	`blast007`	`hmm`
`03:19.52`	`JeffM2501`	`is port 80 outbound blocked or filtered?`
`03:20.14`	`JeffM2501`	`and you don't have -publiclist in the config do you?`
`03:20.16`	`cody6375`	`it runs our web server`
`03:20.24`	`*** join/#bzflag triclops (n=triclops@203-206-249-42.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`03:20.25`	`JeffM2501`	`that is inbount`
`03:20.30`	`JeffM2501`	`I mean outbound`
`03:20.35`	`JeffM2501`	`can that computer get to a web page?`
`03:20.45`	`JeffM2501`	`you don't have a proxy or anything do you?`
`03:20.49`	`blast007`	`hmm, well, his client can get the list`
`03:20.58`	`JeffM2501`	`that may be on anoher system`
`03:21.21`	`JeffM2501`	`or if he's soft firewall, bzflag.exe may be let out but not bzfs`
`03:21.25`	`cody6375`	`this thing as you call it can get a web page I'm here`
`03:22.01`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`03:22.11`	`JeffM2501`	`do you have -publiclist in your config?`
`03:23.02`	`cody6375`	`yes it was commented out I just changed it`
`03:23.21`	`JeffM2501`	`what was it set to?`
`03:23.26`	`JeffM2501`	`oh commented`
`03:23.27`	`JeffM2501`	`good`
`03:23.30`	`JeffM2501`	`you don't want that there`
`03:24.09`	`cody6375`	`-publiclist <list-server-url> is all the line reads`
`03:24.31`	`blast007`	`with the # still in front of it?`
`03:24.53`	`cody6375`	`nope`
`03:25.01`	`blast007`	`put the # back in`
`03:25.06`	`cody6375`	`ok`
`03:25.10`	`JeffM2501`	`or remove the line`
`03:25.15`	`blast007`	`or that ;)`
`03:25.28`	`cody6375`	`done`
`03:26.33`	`blast007`	`try the server again`
`03:26.37`	`cody6375`	`~bzfquery ozsoft.biz`
`03:27.04`	`blast007`	`did you restart it?`
`03:27.16`	`cody6375`	`doing it now`
`03:27.27`	`blast007`	`k`
`03:27.45`	`cody6375`	`ok it's started`
`03:28.34`	`cody6375`	`~bzfquery ozsoft.biz`
`03:28.55`	`cody6375`	`at lease it seen I was in it`
`03:29.16`	`blast007`	`still not listed though :(`
`03:30.00`	`cody6375`	`nope :(`
`03:30.50`	`cody6375`	`:( :.(`
`03:31.32`	`cody6375`	`bed time I will have to try again tomorrow have a great night guys and thanks for all your help`
`03:31.38`	`blast007`	`k, cya`
`03:31.55`	`*** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (n=I_Died_O@pcp0010382004pcs.savana01.ga.comcast.net)`
`03:32.22`	`I_Died_Once`	`~seen DTRemenak`
`03:32.26`	`ibot`	`dtremenak is currently on #bzflag (2h 11m 5s) #brlcad (2h 11m 5s)`
`03:33.48`	`I_Died_Once`	`gah`
`03:34.35`	`*** join/#bzflag bz5542 (n=d135c281@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`03:35.55`	`bz5542`	`hi - i'm using bzflag 204 on a mac - and the graphics seems to be bad (16 color?) - powerbook g4 btw`
`03:36.04`	`bz5542`	`any ideas?`
`03:36.37`	`I_Died_Once`	`yeah, in the game, go options - display settings - and change your quality`
`03:36.53`	`bryjen`	`or the video format`
`03:36.59`	`I_Died_Once`	`yeah`
`03:37.00`	`bz5542`	`it only has resolution - not number of colors`
`03:37.25`	`bryjen`	`what's Quality set to?`
`03:37.57`	`bz5542`	`i tried experimental and the one below that`
`03:38.38`	`bryjen`	`ok, how about Texturing?`
`03:39.28`	`*** join/#bzflag Quol_InMemphis (n=IceChat7@rrcs-70-60-81-194.central.biz.rr.com)`
`03:39.56`	`bz5542`	`mmm - think i tried "best" - the game isn't running right now...`
`03:40.34`	`JeffM2501`	`what chipset is in the powerbook?`
`03:40.38`	`JeffM2501`	`the old ATI rage?`
`03:40.39`	`I_Died_Once`	`seek ye "linear mipmap linear"`
`03:40.44`	`bz5542`	`i'll play around a bit - i was just seeing if there are any known problems`
`03:40.54`	`bryjen`	`i don't think "best" is an option for texturing.`
`03:40.57`	`bz5542`	`linear - i'll try it`
`03:40.58`	`JeffM2501`	`how fast is the powerbook`
`03:41.14`	`bz5542`	`think it's 1.5G`
`03:41.35`	`bz5542`	`it's one behind the current pbook g4`
`03:41.36`	`JeffM2501`	`then it may have a radeon 7k or the likes int it`
`03:41.40`	`JeffM2501`	`should run fine`
`03:41.46`	`JeffM2501`	`just make sure depth buffer is on`
`03:42.10`	`trepan`	`<PROTECTED>`
`03:42.12`	`bz5542`	`thanks - i'll be back later if i can't figure it out :)`
`03:42.20`	`trepan`	`(as there is no option in the menu)`
`03:42.32`	`bz5542`	`trepan - thx`
`03:42.48`	`JeffM2501`	`hah, that's right we pulled it`
`03:42.58`	`trepan`	`'we'? ;)`
`03:43.05`	`JeffM2501`	`dtr helped`
`03:43.09`	`JeffM2501`	`he pulled the menu`
`03:43.25`	`trepan`	`i guess 'we' forgot to add the warning too`
`03:43.49`	`JeffM2501`	`it should never pick it by defalt now tho`
`03:43.54`	`JeffM2501`	`so his is probably on`
`03:45.30`	`bryjen`	`~bzfquery bryjen.homelinux.org`
`03:45.43`	`bryjen`	`duh`
`03:45.50`	`bryjen`	`~bzfquery bryjen.bzflag.org`
`03:46.04`	`bryjen`	`eep, peoples`
`03:46.10`	`Grumbler`	`is there a program that will play wmv on mac`
`03:46.28`	`sgk284`	`vlc`
`03:46.50`	`sgk284`	`http://www.videolan.org/`
`03:47.03`	`sgk284`	`should play it unless its got drm or some nonsense`
`03:47.12`	`trepan`	`mplayer will prolly work too`
`03:47.16`	`sgk284`	`yea`
`03:48.10`	`bryjen`	`hmm`
`03:48.14`	`Grumbler`	`i am working with a completley non-technical person remotely.......so, i will assume either will work effortlessly ?`
`03:48.45`	`sgk284`	`i've had good experience with vlc, never tried mplayer on a mac`
`03:48.53`	`sgk284`	`i assume both would work fine`
`03:49.08`	`sgk284`	`both are good products (google based their video plugin off of vlc)`
`03:50.41`	`Grumbler`	`well, i can only hope one of them works......probably find out tomorrow`
`03:50.44`	`Grumbler`	`thnx`
`03:50.50`	`sgk284`	`:)`
`03:51.22`	`Grumbler`	`more than likely, i will get an email to the effect of "i dont know how to install this.....its not worth it"`
`03:51.46`	`sgk284`	`lol`
`03:52.22`	`jpa-`	`sgkpie :)`
`03:52.29`	`sgk284`	`considering that the mac has IE, and Office support, one would think MS provided codecs`
`03:52.35`	`sgk284`	`i guess not though`
`03:52.38`	`sgk284`	`jpa- !!!`
`03:52.40`	`sgk284`	`hey :)`
`03:52.44`	`Grumbler`	`Quol_InMemphis, ....walking in memphis`
`03:53.11`	`Quol_InMemphis`	`Grumbler: yup :) how are ya?`
`03:53.31`	`Grumbler`	`heh, nb....little far south for you isnt it`
`03:53.55`	`sgk284`	`ugh.. 20 minutes for one matrix multiplication, i didnt think it was ever going to finish :)`
`03:54.10`	`Quol_InMemphis`	`yup - here on work....fun fun stuff :) (boring IT audits)`
`03:54.26`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)`
`03:54.27`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ`
`03:54.36`	`Grumbler`	`...ah, well, dont insult elvis, and have fun`
`03:54.49`	`Quol_InMemphis`	`lol`
`03:55.01`	`sgk284`	`hey DTRemenak`
`03:55.02`	`Quol_InMemphis`	`elvis is alive and well in this town - that's for sure`
`03:55.05`	`Quol_InMemphis`	`he is everywhere`
`03:55.34`	`Quol_InMemphis`	`any bzers around memphis/mississippi?`
`03:56.41`	`JeffM2501`	`does hepcat/silvercat have a logo image that we host for them anywhere?`
`04:15.28`	`JeffM2501`	`whoot 416.5 fps :)`
`04:19.43`	`bryjen`	`sli?`
`04:19.56`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`04:20.01`	`JeffM2501`	`tho I'm stillin eq2 mode`
`04:20.05`	`JeffM2501`	`should try generic`
`04:20.10`	`JeffM2501`	`and its only on a single quad`
`04:20.20`	`JeffM2501`	`just wanted to test the max speed of the framework`
`04:20.26`	`JeffM2501`	`using ftgl`
`04:20.36`	`bryjen`	`hehe. "look ma, i draw squares real fast!"`
`04:21.03`	`JeffM2501`	`well it just means the font system, the sound system, and the event system arn't real slowdowns`
`04:21.17`	`JeffM2501`	`tupone had said ftgl was not fast`
`04:22.51`	`brlcad`	`Grumbler: mplayer might but windows media player will for sure (on the mac)`
`04:23.51`	`bryjen`	`...or was that "with no name"`
`04:24.02`	`bryjen`	`i don't remeber`
`04:25.44`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007 (i=blast007@24-196-92-143.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com)`
`04:29.10`	`teh_conqerer`	`how black sabbath never made it to the hall of fame is beyond me`
`04:30.13`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/ (3d/inc/textures.h 3d/src/textures.cpp client/src/menus.cpp): alignment modes for drawn images`
`04:34.21`	`*** join/#bzflag Megachirops (n=cmassey1@pcp019255pcs.cabrillo.reshall.calpoly.edu)`
`04:35.27`	`Quol_InMemphis`	`well - bed time for this guy - see you all later...`
`04:35.33`	`DTRemenak`	`~lart Megachirops`
`04:35.41`	`Megachirops`	`yikes`
`04:36.01`	`DTRemenak`	`ibot gets more vicious all the time`
`04:36.24`	`*** join/#bzflag Blue_Beard (i=BlueBear@c-24-7-247-223.hsd1.in.comcast.net)`
`04:36.28`	`Blue_Beard`	`Weeeeeeeee!`
`04:36.52`	`*** join/#bzflag lan56 (i=lan56@user-vcauvoi.dsl.mindspring.com)`
`04:45.04`	`*** part/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@2002:45a6:86ae:0:0:0:0:1)`
`05:34.05`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone)`
`05:34.05`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ`
`06:18.34`	`*** join/#bzflag Chestal (i=thilo@pdpc/supporter/active/Chestal)`
`06:18.34`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o Chestal] by ChanServ`
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`06:40.05`	`*** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (n=jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`07:03.12`	`*** join/#bzflag LePoulpe303 (n=Miranda@AMontpellier-251-1-64-157.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`07:10.41`	`*** join/#bzflag LePoulpe303 (n=Miranda@AMontpellier-251-1-64-157.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`07:30.10`	`*** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B02C12.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`08:01.10`	`*** join/#bzflag bz0314 (n=3e67273c@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`08:21.59`	`*** join/#bzflag LePoulpe303 (n=Miranda@AMontpellier-251-1-64-157.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`08:23.46`	`*** join/#bzflag gurto (n=54a92eca@genesis.concept69.de)`
`08:24.29`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/data/font/nasalization.ttf: menu font`
`08:25.43`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03trepan * 10bzflag/src/obstacle/MeshDrawInfo.cxx: oops, make it so that lods don't have to be ordered`
`08:26.17`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/data/ (3 files in 2 dirs): menu sounds a little bgm`
`08:27.32`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/3d/ (inc/fonts.h src/fonts.cpp):`
`08:27.32`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: string size util`
`08:27.32`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: option to draw centered`
`08:28.09`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/3d/ (inc/openGL.h inc/textures.h src/textures.cpp): more ways to draw quads then you can shake a cat at`
`08:28.38`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/audio/ (inc/audio.h src/audio.cpp): let simple jobs start playing for simplicity`
`08:29.22`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/client/ (inc/menus.h src/client.cpp src/menus.cpp): more menus`
`08:29.42`	`*** part/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=jeffm@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`09:09.12`	`*** join/#bzflag newbie_dont (n=newbie_d@fwt.computerland.pl)`
`09:19.22`	`*** join/#bzflag stahlsau (n=stahlsau@p85.212.21.38.tisdip.tiscali.de)`
`09:19.33`	`stahlsau`	`hi`
`09:44.35`	`*** join/#bzflag Elachys (n=Elachys@81-178-200-25.dsl.pipex.com)`
`10:13.38`	`*** join/#bzflag Birdie (n=Birdie__@d54C34DE9.access.telenet.be)`
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`11:25.22`	`*** join/#bzflag YAKarsten (i=karsten@sourcemage/pdpc.sustaining.BearPerson)`
`11:32.32`	`*** join/#bzflag Birdie (n=Birdie__@d54C34DE9.access.telenet.be)`
`11:41.14`	`*** join/#bzflag brad2901 (i=brad2901@unaffiliated/brad2901)`
`12:27.32`	`BearPerson`	`ah, in c++ you seem to be able to do call by reference without having to do anything when calling the function`
`12:29.34`	`Pimpinella`	`BearPerson: explain?`
`12:29.44`	`BearPerson`	`nm, I didn't know c++ enough`
`12:30.16`	`BearPerson`	`it looked like a variable was used uninitialized, but it was just initialized in another function`
`12:30.42`	`BearPerson`	`in C, function(variable) is always call by value and function(&variable) would be passing a pointer, so call by reference`
`12:30.46`	`Pimpinella`	`there are 2 ways of call by reference, 1. using pointers (C and C++) and 2. using references (only C++)`
`12:30.55`	`BearPerson`	`in C++, function(variable) can be by reference too, yeah`
`12:32.09`	`BearPerson`	`I'm thinking if we might be able to make the spawn code more expensive if we try to place the player like 100 times, then let the main loop run again, then notice we still have someone to place, and try again`
`12:32.33`	`BearPerson`	`so it wouldn't lock until he is placed, but until he is placed or we have tried for long enough`
`12:33.01`	`BearPerson`	`which means we can make spawn code that takes e.g. 50ms on average without the players ever noticing`
`12:33.21`	`BearPerson`	`while on the current implementation that would mean the server lagging out for 50ms per spawn`
`12:33.33`	`brlcad`	`If the spawn code fails that many times, it's an indicator that it needs to be reworked to select more intelligently`
`12:34.08`	`Pimpinella`	`would be possible, if the first try fails further attempts could be started from doStuffOnPlayers()`
`12:34.22`	`BearPerson`	`maybe it should try to find a very good spot at first, every retry a bit worse a position is allowed`
`12:34.41`	`Pimpinella`	`brlcad: it doesn't fail often, it just returns crappy spawn positions quite often`
`12:35.23`	`BearPerson`	`in the path of a shot is += high badness, near a player is += low badness, near a flag-carrying player += med badness, near a team-flag-carrying player += high badness`
`12:35.27`	`brlcad`	`returning a crappy position could be considered a failure too depending on how you look at it ;)`
`12:35.40`	`Pimpinella`	`so it needs to be reworkes anyway, but it can be much more expensive using the way BearPerson describes`
`12:35.51`	`BearPerson`	`essentially, we probably need a better idea of "badness"`
`12:36.01`	`BearPerson`	`and we need to somehow find the time to calculate it`
`12:36.36`	`BearPerson`	`so my first idea might be a way how you could use some time without affecting gameplay`
`12:36.50`	`Pimpinella`	`lunch`
`12:38.08`	`brlcad`	`I would change it to stop guessing positions`
`12:38.40`	`brlcad`	`the position tracker I'd started maintains perfect knowledge of where all objects are on the map`
`12:39.07`	`brlcad`	`it can use that to maintain spawn zones of varying quality for instant placement`
`12:39.29`	`BearPerson`	`shots change quality very quickly though`
`12:39.45`	`brlcad`	`sure, and the server knows about them already`
`12:39.59`	`brlcad`	`or at least needs to know about them (minimally to relay them)`
`12:40.01`	`BearPerson`	`so you'd need to not place a player in the path of a shot`
`12:40.11`	`BearPerson`	`shouldn't be too hard to do`
`12:40.53`	`brlcad`	`shouldn't be in the path of anything moving that's potentially deadly`
`12:41.14`	`brlcad`	`including tanks, world weapons, shots, etc`
`12:41.23`	`BearPerson`	`abs(shotCoords.x - playerCoords.x)shotSpeed.y - abs(shotCoords.y - playerCoords.y)shotSpeed.x`
`12:41.37`	`BearPerson`	`world weapons == shots usually`
`12:41.45`	`BearPerson`	`we already check if a tank is facing them, iirc`
`12:41.58`	`BearPerson`	`or rather, if the nearest enemy tank is facing them`
`12:45.35`	`BearPerson`	`though I'd work with float badness and not with bool foundspot`
`13:20.32`	`Thumper_`	`ok I'm confused.`
`13:20.44`	`Thumper_`	`Plugins: with the current CVS they don't build .so files anywhere I can file`
`13:20.46`	`Thumper_`	`what gives?`
`13:20.54`	`Thumper_`	`...I can find*`
`13:29.48`	`Pimpinella`	`Thumper_: ./configure --enable-shared`
`13:31.53`	`Thumper_`	`Pimpinella: thx - that isn't obvious ... is it?`
`13:33.36`	`Pimpinella`	`unless you have read ./configure --help carefully it isn't`
`13:35.10`	`Thumper_`	`do I also need --enable-plugins ?`
`13:35.22`	`Pimpinella`	`souldn't harm`
`13:35.39`	`Thumper_`	`thx`
`13:35.39`	`Pimpinella`	`shouldn't harm`
`13:38.01`	`Grumbler`	`ecoo`
`13:38.04`	`Grumbler`	`echo`
`13:38.16`	`*** join/#bzflag kahcepb[Ru] (n=den@213.189.217.163)`
`14:32.16`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@63.147.94.151)`
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`14:58.20`	`menotume`	`echo`
`15:00.50`	`ToughShooter`	`EHLO`
`15:00.56`	`Aribeth`	`hi`
`15:00.58`	`Thumper_`	`coeh`
`15:01.09`	`Thumper_`	`the 'lighter' letters travel faster`
`15:01.19`	`Aribeth`	`lol`
`15:01.39`	`*** join/#bzflag brad2901 (i=brad2901@unaffiliated/brad2901)`
`15:02.42`	`ToughShooter`	`Maybe it's the flag fairy causing it`
`15:02.53`	`Aribeth`	`hehe`
`15:03.20`	`ToughShooter`	`Like bringing OO to highest point of maps ;)`
`15:06.14`	`Thumper_`	`you've noticed that too`
`15:08.12`	`ToughShooter`	`Sure, I spent too much time playing`
`15:10.57`	`ToughShooter`	`or make some sellers at ebay go NR after paying`
`15:11.00`	`menotume`	`brlcad: could you ping learner for me ?`
`15:16.38`	`trepan`	`slight improvement: http://trepan.bzflag.bz/noshow/sw4pass.jpg`
`15:17.09`	`brad2901`	`http://trepan.bzflag.bz/noshow/sw4pass.jpg`
`15:17.12`	`brad2901`	`oops`
`15:17.23`	`brad2901`	`stupid irssi =)`
`15:17.27`	`menotume`	`shiny bubbles ...`
`15:17.56`	`trepan`	`as compared with: http://trepan.bzflag.bz/noshow/logic-sw.jpg`
`15:20.17`	`menotume`	`much betterer :)`
`15:29.20`	`BenUrban`	`just gotta pick the right blending method`
`15:29.23`	`Aribeth`	`let the waveing begin :)`
`15:29.29`	`BenUrban`	`heh`
`15:29.31`	`BenUrban`	`waving`
`15:29.50`	`Aribeth`	`aok, i can't spell ')`
`15:29.59`	`Aribeth`	`or type`
`15:30.12`	`Aribeth`	`;)`
`15:30.32`	`BenUrban`	`:ud`
`15:30.34`	`Aribeth`	`especialy when im still half asleep`
`15:30.44`	`Aribeth`	`ewwww`
`15:30.44`	`menotume`	`show off`
`15:30.46`	`BenUrban`	`(for no apparent reason)`
`15:30.52`	`BenUrban`	`heh`
`15:31.31`	`trepan`	`it's volumetric color inversion that's key, not the blending`
`15:31.36`	`BenUrban`	`ah`
`16:19.06`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
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`17:48.11`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/ (audio/inc/audio.h audio/src/audio.cpp client/src/client.cpp):`
`17:48.12`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: cache sounds so they are only ever loaded once`
`17:48.12`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: only load sounds when they are first played.`
`17:48.12`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: default volumes.`
`17:51.05`	`orange`	`found a post in bzbb that references a 'worlds' link from stats.bzflag.org which doesn't seem to exist anymore... anybody know where that used to link to?`
`17:52.20`	`JeffM2501`	`it used to host maps`
`17:52.25`	`JeffM2501`	`it dosn't anymore`
`17:53.12`	`orange`	`found what I wanted on sid6.7's site, I think`
`18:13.20`	`*** part/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@63.147.94.151)`
`18:21.56`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@63.147.94.150)`
`18:23.20`	`TimRiker`	`~dinfo bzflag`
`18:24.17`	`TimRiker`	`hmm. no 2.0.4 there yet. It's been uploaded.`
`18:31.13`	`*** join/#bzflag ruskie (n=ruskie@sourcemage/ruskie)`
`18:45.37`	`*** join/#bzflag meacan (n=dennis@dahlia.d75.net)`
`18:46.07`	`meacan`	`ibot: bzfquery 69.198.211.32:5157`
`18:47.12`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@68.50.155.230)`
`18:47.23`	`*** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B00AA6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`19:03.57`	`*** join/#bzflag PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@pcp0011645240pcs.aberdn01.md.comcast.net)`
`19:12.32`	`*** join/#bzflag lan56 (n=9c036de6@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`19:16.43`	`*** join/#bzflag lan56 (n=9c036de6@webchat.bzflag.bz)`
`19:20.45`	`*** join/#bzflag Naka (n=chatzill@dialup-4.129.84.51.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net)`
`19:21.00`	`Naka`	`I found a good use for IE :)`
`19:22.23`	`lan56`	`browsing the internet? :)`
`19:28.56`	`trepan`	`orange: http://trepan.bzflag.bz/noshow/skeletal.jpg (sweeps from the center)`
`19:30.00`	`wizart`	`wow. looks interesting`
`19:30.57`	`menotume`	`whoa - 'wide-angle' perspective`
`19:32.53`	`trepan`	`quite cheesy at the moment, might find better uses than as another spawn effect`
`19:34.41`	`orange`	`trepan: neato`
`19:34.41`	`Naka`	`Lan not only that but for some reason its better at um do you call it Streaming? It allows me to listen to streamed mp3s but mozilla makes me download a plugin that is not there...`
`19:34.44`	`orange`	`would be great to use if there will eventually be invulnerability at spawn`
`19:35.52`	`Naka`	`Nice trepan`
`19:36.18`	`Naka`	`looks like it builds back together when it spawns ;)`
`19:45.57`	`bryjen`	`blarg!`
`19:46.20`	`JeffM2501`	`tho I just realised all those little tanks are upside down`
`19:46.50`	`JeffM2501`	`reload for them right side up :)`
`19:47.17`	`Aribeth`	`thats because they are dead tanks, shot all to peices :P`
`19:47.22`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`19:47.26`	`JeffM2501`	`they move`
`19:47.30`	`JeffM2501`	`and drive around`
`19:47.32`	`JeffM2501`	`during the menu`
`19:47.37`	`Aribeth`	`cool`
`19:47.47`	`bryjen`	`overlapping in odd ways`
`19:47.55`	`JeffM2501`	`trepan, how do I do a 2d circle/circle intersection?`
`19:48.05`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah I need to make them know to steer around each other`
`19:48.12`	`JeffM2501`	`hence my question to trepan :)`
`19:48.21`	`trepan`	`huh? just check the distance?`
`19:48.25`	`JeffM2501`	`oh it's just dist squared betwen`
`19:48.26`	`JeffM2501`	`duhh`
`19:48.30`	`JeffM2501`	`sorry`
`19:48.31`	`JeffM2501`	`brain fart`
`19:49.00`	`Naka`	`happens`
`19:51.47`	`trepan`	`you may also want to try it time parametric line-swept-sphere style, depends how you're doing it`
`19:52.12`	`JeffM2501`	`going simple`
`19:52.48`	`JeffM2501`	`if they are going to move into a space that is ocupied, they will turn +-rand(90) and then try to move again`
`19:52.58`	`JeffM2501`	`should be good enough`
`19:53.12`	`JeffM2501`	`for a silly menu :)`
`19:53.39`	`*** join/#bzflag Silent_Swan (n=pepper@adsl-64-108-223-145.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net)`
`19:53.49`	`Silent_Swan`	`anyone here running suse linux?`
`19:54.24`	`Tupone`	`_Manu_ is`
`19:55.02`	`trepan`	`massive, heh? might want use a co-sim`
`19:55.11`	`JeffM2501`	`lame old logo`
`19:55.13`	`trepan`	`or is that some sort of data size, and not player count? ;)`
`19:55.26`	`JeffM2501`	`no just a lame old logo :)`
`19:56.24`	`_Manu_`	`Tupone, Manu was ;)`
`19:56.31`	`trepan`	`decent menu font, the nasal one?`
`19:56.39`	`Tupone`	`:)`
`19:56.48`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`19:56.54`	`JeffM2501`	`pulled right from the TTF`
`19:57.06`	`JeffM2501`	`Tupone, that ftgl is prety fast if you use it right`
`19:57.17`	`Tupone`	`great`
`19:58.09`	`Tupone`	`are you going to put inside bzflag then ? or just your game ?`
`19:58.16`	`JeffM2501`	`dono`
`19:58.25`	`JeffM2501`	`we shall see where the winds of fate take us`
`19:58.37`	`Tupone`	`well, if you do, is one things that we agree on :)`
`19:59.00`	`Tupone`	`hmm, better not going on this road ... :)`
`19:59.02`	`JeffM2501`	`I think it was so slow in bz due to all the state changes thing`
`19:59.09`	`JeffM2501`	`the lib is fine, bz is not`
`19:59.17`	`Tupone`	`:(`
`19:59.22`	`JeffM2501`	`to put it in the core lib would mean to clean up our state changes first`
`19:59.44`	`JeffM2501`	`also the no texture requirement of bz may make it not so good`
`20:00.09`	`Tupone`	`hmm, ftgl is able to go without texture I remember`
`20:00.13`	`JeffM2501`	`it is`
`20:00.18`	`JeffM2501`	`but that method is a LOT slower`
`20:00.22`	`JeffM2501`	`then textures`
`20:00.32`	`JeffM2501`	`lot more geometry`
`20:00.36`	`Tupone`	`even with bitmap ?`
`20:00.41`	`*** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker)`
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`20:00.48`	`JeffM2501`	`and if you don't have fast textures theny ou don't have fast geometry, or fast bit bliting`
`20:00.58`	`JeffM2501`	`the bitmap uses other slower methods`
`20:01.23`	`JeffM2501`	`basicly if you don't have fast textures, odds are the rest of it's not going to be fast ether`
`20:01.25`	`Tupone`	`but seems that guys without texture use bitmapped font now, in bzflag`
`20:01.26`	`JeffM2501`	`not in this day in age`
`20:01.37`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah and our current font system is the slowest part of BZ`
`20:01.54`	`JeffM2501`	`you could probalby get ftgl to work, you'd just have to bang on it a lot`
`20:01.59`	`Tupone`	`that I know, from when DTRemenak started to work with them`
`20:06.05`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/3d/ (inc/objFile.h src/objFile.cpp): make the objects use a simple display list`
`20:06.41`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/3d/ (inc/openGL.h src/textures.cpp): move the invalid ID to the gl header so anyone can use it`
`20:07.36`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/client/ (inc/menus.h src/client.cpp src/menus.cpp): make some random little tanks drive around behind the menu`
`20:07.49`	`Naka`	`lol`
`20:12.41`	`*** join/#bzflag mmu_man (i=revol@ALyon-253-1-6-92.w83-201.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`20:35.10`	`JeffM2501`	`the model probalby needs help too, it's a 3d version of the icon :)`
`20:36.06`	`ruskie`	`:)`
`20:36.33`	`ruskie`	`and maybe have different shapes...`
`20:36.39`	`JeffM2501`	`there has been talk of it`
`20:36.58`	`JeffM2501`	`there are a couple issues to resolve ( the mind affecting flags )`
`20:37.09`	`ruskie`	`erm`
`20:37.11`	`JeffM2501`	`like what model do you shift them to when you are CB`
`20:37.12`	`ruskie`	`which ones are those?`
`20:37.18`	`JeffM2501`	`CB, masquerade`
`20:37.22`	`ruskie`	`<-- mind is affected... sleep deprivation`
`20:37.28`	`JeffM2501`	`the ones that currently change a tanks color`
`20:37.35`	`ruskie`	`hmmm default model I guess`
`20:37.42`	`ruskie`	`though I think shape should stay same`
`20:37.58`	`JeffM2501`	`then if you know noone is using the default model on your team, then the guy in the defualt model is an imposter :)`
`20:38.17`	`JeffM2501`	`if you keep the sape the same, then it's easy to see who the impostor is, if they had a unique model`
`20:38.38`	`JeffM2501`	`there are workarounds, they just all get a little hackish`
`20:38.46`	`JeffM2501`	`because those flags are based on the fact that all tanks look the same`
`20:39.01`	`JeffM2501`	`solutions just need to be picked, that's all`
`20:39.07`	`ruskie`	`hmmm how about this one: masq looks same as your own tank`
`20:39.24`	`ruskie`	`cb looks same as your own tank all as well`
`20:39.28`	`JeffM2501`	`then if you know you are the only one on your team with that model, the person who looks like you is the imposter`
`20:39.44`	`JeffM2501`	`there is a drawback to each one`
`20:39.50`	`ruskie`	`well considering there's a HUGE BLIP on the radar for the masq`
`20:39.54`	`JeffM2501`	`in CB, you'd have to make all tanks be the same`
`20:40.08`	`ruskie`	`yeah all same as you imho`
`20:40.13`	`JeffM2501`	`true, but it still changes the gameplay if an allready weak flag :)`
`20:40.27`	`JeffM2501`	`I'd personaly like to remove those flags`
`20:40.35`	`ruskie`	`well consdier this... a good player isn't really fooled by masq`
`20:40.43`	`JeffM2501`	`exactly`
`20:40.44`	`ruskie`	`only ppl fooled by masq are newbs`
`20:40.45`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a weak flag`
`20:40.55`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't think it really has a place in the game`
`20:40.58`	`JeffM2501`	`noone "uses" it`
`20:41.03`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't think`
`20:41.16`	`ruskie`	`well I know a few use it from time to time`
`20:41.24`	`ruskie`	`can reign havoc on enemy`
`20:41.35`	`ruskie`	`btw why are bullets still coloured if you have cb?`
`20:41.41`	`trepan`	`-noradar might make a diff`
`20:41.49`	`JeffM2501`	`that's just the way somone coded it`
`20:41.54`	`ruskie`	`yeah`
`20:41.57`	`ruskie`	`noradar would do it`
`20:42.14`	`ruskie`	`but then there's not many maps that are radarless`
`20:42.24`	`JeffM2501`	`for models and skins also have to do some sort of access list/ aproval thing, so people don't drive around in a huge penis on the kids servers`
`20:42.29`	`ruskie`	`and an ID click still reveales the proper one`
`20:43.05`	`ruskie`	`my recommendation only have officialy approved models on some central server than can be downloaded and used`
`20:43.13`	`ruskie`	`and all servers would only pull from that`
`20:43.27`	`ruskie`	`if a player has own custom models in his own client it wouldn't get pulled`
`20:43.28`	`trepan`	`ya, that's already covered, a la DownloadAccess.txt`
`20:43.55`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`20:43.56`	`JeffM2501`	`it is`
`20:44.12`	`trepan`	`the decisions are trivial, convincing someone to code it up...`
`20:44.25`	`ruskie`	`true`
`20:44.29`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`20:44.36`	`JeffM2501`	`we all know what we have to do, somone just has to do it`
`20:44.38`	`JeffM2501`	`and care`
`20:44.40`	`ruskie`	`I wish I knew how to code :(`
`20:44.53`	`bryjen`	`bullets are yellow (rogue) when you have CB. they remain the tanks' true color when the tank has MQ`
`20:44.54`	`ruskie`	`I'll be learned C in 6 months time...`
`20:45.03`	`ruskie`	`erm s/leanrned/learning/`
`20:45.05`	`JeffM2501`	`so do I`
`20:45.22`	`ruskie`	`bryjen, iirc I saw bullets always team colour...`
`20:45.27`	`ruskie`	`as well as spawns...`
`20:45.39`	`ruskie`	`but I didn't see any spawns+cb since I updated the client`
`20:45.51`	`trepan`	`drawInfo parsing takes straight from an iostream... hmm`
`20:45.51`	`ruskie`	`so until I do I can't comment on that`
`20:46.02`	`ruskie`	`but I did see red bullets and blue bullets while cbed`
`20:46.23`	`bryjen`	`well, the spawn effects are new, so they may have a bug. i'm pretty sure the bullets aren't supposed to be colored....`
`20:46.25`	`trepan`	`the other nastiness is getting translucent drawing for PZ, etc, to look propa`
`20:46.40`	`*** join/#bzflag RPG_ (n=Garrett@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net)`
`20:47.02`	`ruskie`	`brb...`
`20:48.10`	`trepan`	`although MeshSceneNode already covers some of that, and has lods and stripping`
`20:48.31`	`trepan`	`even gl points, for the top lights`
`20:50.17`	`*** join/#bzflag ruskie (n=ruskie@sourcemage/ruskie)`
`20:50.35`	`ruskie`	`that's better`
`20:50.44`	`ToughShooter`	`JeffM2501: Why is all the last thing in Makefile? ;)`
`20:51.01`	`JeffM2501`	`ToughShooter, what?`
`20:52.17`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`20:52.20`	`JeffM2501`	`makefile`
`20:52.22`	`JeffM2501`	`right`
`20:52.28`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not current`
`20:52.51`	`JeffM2501`	`like I'd even know how to make one`
`20:53.16`	`ToughShooter`	`It should be first and the Xcode project should contain the link to macapp.h relative to project, not as absolute path`
`20:53.26`	`JeffM2501`	`huh what?`
`20:53.35`	`bryjen`	`hmm, tanks and shots appear as rogue when I have CB here. out-the-window and on radar`
`20:53.51`	`JeffM2501`	`ToughShooter, I haven't make an xcode project for it yet`
`20:53.58`	`JeffM2501`	`and that makefile is like way way outdated`
`20:54.34`	`ToughShooter`	`bah, it was osapp.h`
`20:54.42`	`ToughShooter`	`*osxapp.h`
`20:54.49`	`JeffM2501`	`are you talking about the map editor?`
`20:54.55`	`ToughShooter`	`yeah`
`20:54.59`	`JeffM2501`	`there ya go skip`
`20:55.13`	`JeffM2501`	`that too is old`
`20:55.16`	`JeffM2501`	`it was just a test`
`20:55.24`	`JeffM2501`	`what are you trying to do with it?`
`20:55.28`	`ToughShooter`	`nice to investigate what you've done ;)`
`20:55.41`	`JeffM2501`	`if it' ain't on windows, it ain't current`
`20:55.43`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007 (n=blast007@198.150.76.4)`
`20:56.07`	`ToughShooter`	`nothing, just looking in hope to learn a bit more about C(++)`
`20:56.20`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm probably not the best to learn from :)`
`20:56.47`	`JeffM2501`	`that xcode project is basicly one of the samples with some files hucked in`
`20:57.03`	`ToughShooter`	`tutorials are so boring and .. serious :(`
`20:57.13`	`JeffM2501`	`don't take a shortcut`
`20:57.19`	`JeffM2501`	`just learn the damn language, it's not that hard`
`20:57.26`	`JeffM2501`	`you can't jump right into making a game`
`20:57.53`	`ToughShooter`	`bah, in Haskell you don't even have byref or byvalue, you simply pass expressions etc`
`20:58.01`	`JeffM2501`	`then go code your crap in haskel`
`20:58.09`	`JeffM2501`	`hearing you drone about that language is anoying man`
`20:58.20`	`JeffM2501`	`c++ is what is is, take it or leave it`
`20:58.44`	`ToughShooter`	`I want to learn, just being mad about some differences`
`20:58.51`	`JeffM2501`	`there are many other langauges out there suited for jobs`
`20:59.07`	`JeffM2501`	`ToughShooter, then do the tutorials`
`20:59.10`	`bryjen`	`purple_cow doesn't whine on about it. or constantly fawn over python ;)`
`20:59.41`	`purple_cow`	`ToughShooter: every language has things you won't like. if you get angry about things like calling conventions, you'll never be able to manage :P`
`20:59.47`	`ToughShooter`	`sigh, no way around them :/`
`21:00.11`	`JeffM2501`	`if there was, then there woudn't be tutorials on the net would there?`
`21:00.18`	`JeffM2501`	`your not the first person to learn C++ you know`
`21:02.01`	`ToughShooter`	`Yeah, basically I only want to help. I better shut up before I've done a few tutorials`
`21:02.29`	`JeffM2501`	`helping is fine, just don't shortchange yourself by not learning the language`
`21:03.04`	`JeffM2501`	`you don't want to know how many people I've seen try to learn C++, get pissed that the first tutorial isn't a full game, and just try to learn by "looking at the code"`
`21:03.12`	`JeffM2501`	`it just dosnt' work, and you'll end up giving it up`
`21:03.41`	`RPG_`	`learn smaller games first ;)`
`21:03.49`	`JeffM2501`	`do the tutorials`
`21:04.07`	`ToughShooter`	`I learned delphi with analysing a simple text editor`
`21:04.11`	`JeffM2501`	`RPG_, you shoudln't talk, you seriously lack understanding of many core concepts`
`21:04.22`	`JeffM2501`	`ToughShooter, some languages are somewhat self documenting`
`21:04.26`	`JeffM2501`	`C++ not so much`
`21:04.30`	`RPG_`	`yes, thats because i learn by looking`
`21:04.42`	`JeffM2501`	`you can learn by looking`
`21:04.46`	`RPG_`	`and editing`
`21:04.47`	`JeffM2501`	`by looking at the tutorial apps`
`21:05.02`	`JeffM2501`	`bet you could not even make a linked list if I asked you to`
`21:05.12`	`JeffM2501`	`programing is so much more then just knowing a language`
`21:05.16`	`RPG_`	`mennhhhh`
`21:05.16`	`ToughShooter`	`I made one`
`21:05.38`	`JeffM2501`	`ToughShooter, yes you seem smart in a programer way, that's why I don't want to see you shortchange yourslef`
`21:05.54`	`JeffM2501`	`if you understand how to program, the C++ tutorials shoudl take like a day`
`21:06.06`	`JeffM2501`	`it's nothing`
`21:06.12`	`ToughShooter`	`yeah but I'm lazy`
`21:06.24`	`JeffM2501`	`that is a lame excuse`
`21:06.46`	`JeffM2501`	`if your too lazy to learn a language, why would we want your lazy lasy code to help then?`
`21:09.02`	`ToughShooter`	`I can't help myself being lazy in a few things, have to force myself to do some things`
`21:09.22`	`JeffM2501`	`it all depends on how much you care`
`21:10.05`	`purple_cow`	`laziness is a good trait for a programmer, but only after they're accomplished enough to know how to be lazy in the right way`
`21:10.07`	`JeffM2501`	`hmm now how hard are circle line intersections :)`
`21:10.18`	`JeffM2501`	`it's all about code reuse :)`
`21:11.22`	`ToughShooter`	`(abstract and concrete) classes are cool, lots of more work without them`
`21:12.08`	`JeffM2501`	`orchid, that's what the internet is for :)`
`21:12.23`	`orchid`	`yes and ~/howto`
`21:27.13`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/client/src/menus.cpp: little tilt to the mini tanks to make em look more 3dish`
`21:30.24`	`*** part/#bzflag RPG_away (n=Garrett@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net)`
`21:40.19`	`*** join/#bzflag ruskie (n=ruskie@sourcemage/ruskie)`
`21:59.45`	`Tupone`	`http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Circle-LineIntersection.html`
`22:00.35`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`22:00.37`	`JeffM2501`	`not too bad`
`22:35.55`	`JeffM2501`	`if I go crasy, then will you still call me superman? If I'm alive and well, will you be there holding my hand? I'll keep you by my side with my superhuman... my kryptonite.`
`22:46.45`	`SportyGal`	`!weather 90277`
`22:46.50`	`TheLastSpartan`	`SportyGal: The current temperature in Weather Underground is 68�F.`
`22:54.27`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@DHCP-170-143.caltech.edu)`
`22:54.27`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ`
`22:54.40`	`SportyGal`	`!weather 94710`
`22:54.43`	`TheLastSpartan`	`SportyGal: The current temperature in Weather Underground is 77�F.`
`22:56.24`	`JeffM2501`	`I think they are teretorial`
`22:56.34`	`Silent_Swan`	`yeah`
`22:56.35`	`Silent_Swan`	`very`
`22:57.07`	`JeffM2501`	`when you see another one, do you puff yourself up to make yourself look big?`
`22:57.11`	`JeffM2501`	`or is that just cats?`
`22:57.14`	`Silent_Swan`	`yeah`
`22:57.16`	`Silent_Swan`	`and i hiss`
`22:57.22`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`22:57.43`	`Silent_Swan`	`and then,i go flatten the offender's tires`
`23:04.39`	`JeffM2501`	`only how long to get him to post a tupping debian?`
`23:07.43`	`Silent_Swan`	`believe me, it was very tempting`
`23:07.55`	`JeffM2501`	`it was?`
`23:07.59`	`Silent_Swan`	`oh yes`
`23:08.09`	`JeffM2501`	`why didn't you?`
`23:08.16`	`Silent_Swan`	`too easily seen`
`23:08.35`	`JeffM2501`	`swans can have ninja-like stealth powers`
`23:08.43`	`Silent_Swan`	`only black swans`
`23:08.46`	`JeffM2501`	`unless your named denis`
`23:08.51`	`JeffM2501`	`he had no ninja`
`23:09.02`	`JeffM2501`	`you could dress up`
`23:09.11`	`Silent_Swan`	`hah,what was that website... "Real Ultimate Power"? There's a book on that now`
`23:09.20`	`Silent_Swan`	`the ninja freak`
`23:09.22`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`23:09.26`	`JeffM2501`	`true ultimate power`
`23:09.30`	`JeffM2501`	`it's all about the ninja`
`23:09.37`	`JeffM2501`	`unless there is a pirate`
`23:09.45`	`JeffM2501`	`cus pirates and ninjas are natural enimys`
`23:09.49`	`Silent_Swan`	`http://www.realultimatepower.net/`
`23:10.00`	`Silent_Swan`	`this guy's making a fortune off of that`
`23:10.14`	`Silent_Swan`	`see, what i need to do is come up with a really STUPID idea and market it`
`23:10.18`	`Silent_Swan`	`people will buy it`
`23:10.27`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe he can afford some real fonts`
`23:11.42`	`JeffM2501`	`clasic -> http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/rup/ninjalessons32.jpg`
`23:13.50`	`Silent_Swan`	`i'm going home`
`23:13.52`	`Silent_Swan`	`bye`
`23:25.26`	`*** join/#bzflag Tegan (n=lyra@eacb02-00-cmmgga-70-34-176-23.atlaga.adelphia.net)`
`23:36.08`	`*** join/#bzflag frank__ (n=frank@p548197FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`23:36.45`	`*** join/#bzflag triclops (n=triclops@203-206-249-42.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`23:36.58`	`Tegan`	`g'day triclops`
`23:37.14`	`triclops`	`hey`
`23:41.26`	`*** part/#bzflag triclops (n=triclops@203-206-249-42.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`23:41.35`	`*** join/#bzflag triclops (n=triclops@203-206-249-42.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`23:42.47`	`*** join/#bzflag awelux__ (n=wizart@dslb-084-058-146-117.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`23:57.05`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10BZFlagG3D/client/ (9 files in 3 dirs):`
`23:57.05`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: split up menus`
`23:57.05`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: move more menu code to common base class`
`23:57.05`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: add start of game list menu`

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