irclog2html for #bzflag on 20051229

`00:03.38`	`*** part/#bzflag BinarySpike (n=BinarySp@206-113-022-139.plateautel.net)`
`00:16.54`	`Aribeth`	`hola trepan`
`00:30.44`	`tsowell`	`is platform-specific code allowed outside of src/platform?`
`00:31.54`	`CosmoL`	`anyone noticing attacks from "the_answer" "42_answer" and "bye"?`
`00:32.11`	`CosmoL`	`I noticed my server was down, and the msg logs have been flooded`
`00:32.31`	`CosmoL`	`looking at bzflag.norang.ca, it looks like im not the only one`
`00:32.53`	`A_Meteorite`	`hmmm`
`00:33.15`	`A_Meteorite`	`I saw it yesterday`
`00:33.22`	`A_Meteorite`	`all 2.0.4 servers are vulnerable`
`00:33.35`	`CosmoL`	`hmm, i have a 2.0.5 build`
`00:33.47`	`A_Meteorite`	`hmmm`
`00:33.49`	`A_Meteorite`	`how new?`
`00:33.50`	`A_Meteorite`	`http://secunia.com/advisories/18238/`
`00:34.00`	`CosmoL`	`thanks for the link`
`00:34.04`	`A_Meteorite`	`welcome`
`00:34.21`	`A_Meteorite`	`it's a DoS attack`
`00:35.35`	`CosmoL`	`hmm`
`00:35.47`	`CosmoL`	`I don't know if this is the same deal`
`00:36.05`	`A_Meteorite`	`might not be`
`00:36.15`	`CosmoL`	`this is a MSG flood, looks like a buffer overflow attempt`
`00:36.24`	`A_Meteorite`	`wow`
`00:37.42`	`CosmoL`	`ip is 69.226.58.242 if anyone wants to take pre-emptive action`
`00:37.49`	`A_Meteorite`	`ok`
`00:40.48`	`TimRiker`	`DynamicColor.cxx: In member function 'void DynamicColor::finalize()':`
`00:40.48`	`TimRiker`	`DynamicColor.cxx:204: warning: comparison is always false due to limited range of data type`
`00:43.12`	`CosmoL`	`http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=63901`
`00:46.11`	`TimRiker`	`all reports are the same IP?`
`00:46.50`	`CosmoL`	`I only know what they connected to my servers with.`
`00:51.58`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03timriker * 10admin/master-bans.txt: http://secunia.com/advisories/18238/`
`00:53.10`	`TimRiker`	`CosmoL: looks like a dynamic IP, so that'll only hold for a while.`
`00:53.27`	`TimRiker`	`upgrading to CVS should fix it.`
`00:53.46`	`CosmoL`	`ok thanks, i'll do that presently`
`01:02.29`	`*** join/#bzflag BusyBeaver (n=thesippe@p549A4F6F.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`01:02.32`	`BusyBeaver`	`lo`
`01:02.39`	`BusyBeaver`	`giges`
`01:02.59`	`BusyBeaver`	`any bzflag shit ready for me to splash away?`
`01:03.33`	`BearPerson`	`wow`
`01:08.56`	`Noodleman`	`TimRiker: could you k-line somebody if you wanted to?`
`01:09.07`	`Noodleman`	`i thought only server gods could do that`
`01:15.28`	`BearPerson`	`yup`
`01:23.09`	`*** join/#bzflag BinarySpike (n=BinarySp@206-113-022-139.plateautel.net)`
`01:28.10`	`BinarySpike`	`How do I get shot information like ricochet?`
`01:28.20`	`BinarySpike`	`in bzflag source*`
`01:34.43`	`BinarySpike`	`I spelt ricochet right... somebody has to help me because of that!`
`01:36.09`	`tsowell`	`what kind of shot information do you want?`
`01:36.35`	`BinarySpike`	`Well, for starters... where is the shot information stored?`
`01:36.59`	`BinarySpike`	`I've found where it's rendered on radar I just get tired of not being able to see those tiny little bullets`
`01:38.06`	`tsowell`	`so you want to know where it draws the shots?`
`01:38.23`	`tsowell`	`or where it controls them, like their velocity and whatnot`
`01:38.47`	`BinarySpike`	`yeah velocity, position, I also want to calculate when they rico and stuff`
`01:39.25`	`tsowell`	`src/bzflag/SegmentedShotStrategy.cxx might be what you're looking for`
`01:39.26`	`BinarySpike`	`k, I'm in that`
`01:39.33`	`BinarySpike`	`Actually in SegmentedShotStrategy.h`
`01:39.37`	`tsowell`	`and if you want to change how they are drawn, look in src/geometry/BoltSceneNode.cxx`
`01:39.51`	`BinarySpike`	`drawn on radar, not on screen`
`01:40.51`	`tsowell`	`ohh.. BoltRenderNode doesn't have a renderRadar()`
`01:40.51`	`BinarySpike`	`SegmentedShotStrategy.cxx:315 is the function that draws it on radar`
`01:41.06`	`BinarySpike`	`SegmentedShotStrategy::radarRender()`
`01:41.09`	`tsowell`	`ah`
`01:41.16`	`tsowell`	`found what you need?`
`01:41.24`	`BinarySpike`	`I need to know where position of shot is stored`
`01:43.06`	`tsowell`	`maybe in class ShotPath?`
`01:43.27`	`BinarySpike`	`Yeah... but I specificly need the data when I render`
`01:43.59`	`tsowell`	`you're trying to make it look bigger on the radar`
`01:44.12`	`BinarySpike`	`or display where it's gonna end`
`01:44.57`	`tsowell`	`ah, so you might need more than radarRender knows. ShotPath.firingInfo.shot.pos might be what you need`
`01:45.05`	`tsowell`	`and ShotPath.firingInfo.shot.vel`
`01:46.49`	`BinarySpike`	`I leave blending off so I can't see blue bullets on black background. so I turn shot tails on but the tail isn't effected when I have enhanced radar on... I also want to calculate shot endings and display it as like a yellow dot or soemthing...`
`01:48.05`	`BinarySpike`	`Guess that's cheating though right? just like what I did to tele's?`
`01:48.45`	`tsowell`	`hehe, I don't know`
`01:50.17`	`BinarySpike`	`Well some ppl believe any enhancments that don't effect anybody but urself is still cheating`
`01:50.31`	`tsowell`	`well, it gives you more information than anyone else has`
`01:50.53`	`tsowell`	`so you have an advantage. whether or not it is an unfair advantage determines whether or not it is cheating`
`01:51.19`	`tsowell`	`(I didn't know there were shot tails - thanks for the tip!)`
`01:51.42`	`BinarySpike`	`It makes the bullets lighter and easyer to see... I should just make all shot's white`
`01:51.56`	`BinarySpike`	`That way it would work with enhanced radar`
`01:52.23`	`BinarySpike`	`brb`
`01:52.29`	`*** part/#bzflag BinarySpike (n=BinarySp@206-113-022-139.plateautel.net)`
`01:56.23`	`*** join/#bzflag BinarySpike (n=BinarySp@206-113-022-139.plateautel.net)`
`01:56.52`	`BinarySpike`	`Mmmmmmmmm I think I can access ShotPath through the constructor... not sure`
`01:58.17`	`tsowell`	`well, SegmentedShotStrategy is passed a pointer to a ShotPath..`
`01:58.25`	`tsowell`	`oh, that's what you meant, isn't it?`
`01:58.52`	`BinarySpike`	`Yeah`
`02:07.51`	`*** join/#bzflag brlcad (n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad)`
`02:07.51`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o brlcad] by ChanServ`
`02:08.47`	`brlcad`	`TimRiker: i see you noticed the secunia filing`
`02:12.38`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=jeffm@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`02:12.38`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`02:13.08`	`*** join/#bzflag lan56 (i=lan56@user-vcauv27.dsl.mindspring.com)`
`02:13.23`	`*** join/#bzflag captrespect (n=captresp@dsl017-059-206.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`02:13.53`	`BinarySpike`	`Ooooh, Jeff`
`02:14.00`	`JeffM2501`	`?`
`02:14.29`	`BinarySpike`	`I'm working on another mod..`
`02:14.45`	`JeffM2501`	`ummm ok`
`02:15.35`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm putting a new video card in the crap machine`
`02:16.58`	`*** join/#bzflag BearPerson (i=karsten@sourcemage/wizard/pdpc.sustaining.BearPerson)`
`02:17.51`	`BinarySpike`	`brb`
`02:17.54`	`*** part/#bzflag BinarySpike (n=BinarySp@206-113-022-139.plateautel.net)`
`02:23.45`	`JeffM2501`	`and I guess that means I'm finaly home`
`02:24.13`	`brlcad`	`boo hiss`
`02:24.19`	`brlcad`	`i mean, yay!`
`02:24.25`	`JeffM2501`	`thanks for doing the groups :)`
`02:24.58`	`brlcad`	`happy gobble jingle`
`02:25.26`	`JeffM2501`	`and how has your anual holliday work stopage week going?`
`02:25.40`	`brlcad`	`going great`
`02:25.43`	`brlcad`	`i'm at work :)`
`02:26.34`	`*** join/#bzflag BinarySpike (n=BinarySp@206-113-022-139.plateautel.net)`
`02:26.41`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`02:30.43`	`*** join/#bzflag A_Meteorite (n=A_Meteor@ppp-69-239-141-236.dsl.snlo01.pacbell.net)`
`02:30.52`	`A_Meteorite`	`hello all`
`02:31.13`	`A_Meteorite`	`we need input on this discussion, stop the cheaters: http://savefile.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2788`
`02:31.14`	`A_Meteorite`	`:)`
`02:31.40`	`BinarySpike`	`Oh Jeff did you get my PM?`
`02:31.55`	`JeffM2501`	`BinarySpike, I have been out of town`
`02:31.59`	`JeffM2501`	`I just got home`
`02:32.01`	`JeffM2501`	`so probalby no`
`02:32.13`	`BinarySpike`	`ah, ok`
`02:32.25`	`*** join/#bzflag Pimpi (n=frank@p5481B01D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`02:32.37`	`JeffM2501`	`A_Meteorite, you can't stop someone from moding the source`
`02:32.44`	`A_Meteorite`	`I know`
`02:32.56`	`JeffM2501`	`so how can that discussion "stop" the cheat?`
`02:33.09`	`A_Meteorite`	`because we might persuade the admins to remove the files`
`02:33.20`	`A_Meteorite`	`if enough BZFlag players say they don't like it`
`02:33.21`	`JeffM2501`	`doubtfull`
`02:33.28`	`JeffM2501`	`but hey, go ahead and try`
`02:33.28`	`A_Meteorite`	`I've gotten it removed three times`
`02:33.42`	`A_Meteorite`	`until the cheater posted grumble`
`02:33.57`	`JeffM2501`	`all you do is play whack-a-mole that way`
`02:34.00`	`A_Meteorite`	`any, yeah, I'm asking to be impersonated by him`
`02:34.00`	`BinarySpike`	`A_Meteorite, that Lord guy was using that exact file.`
`02:34.01`	`BearPerson`	`is it one build by the way?`
`02:34.04`	`JeffM2501`	`if that's how you like to spend your time, have at it :)`
`02:34.17`	`A_Meteorite`	`no, two builds`
`02:34.23`	`A_Meteorite`	`and I have plenty of time :D`
`02:34.24`	`BearPerson`	`maybe you could whack one mole by banning their version string`
`02:34.33`	`A_Meteorite`	`how?`
`02:34.35`	`BearPerson`	`if it's reasonably uncommon`
`02:34.42`	`BearPerson`	`modify the server code :P`
`02:34.43`	`JeffM2501`	`all somone would ahve to do is rebuilt`
`02:34.48`	`BearPerson`	`I know`
`02:34.51`	`JeffM2501`	`better to just detect the cheat`
`02:34.52`	`A_Meteorite`	`but if they didn't know why`
`02:34.54`	`A_Meteorite`	`:)`
`02:35.08`	`BearPerson`	`"Please update your client", kill connection`
`02:35.10`	`JeffM2501`	`BinarySpike, did you get my repply to your PM?`
`02:35.15`	`BinarySpike`	`BearPerson, please understand that the guy that makes that is about to release a new version with a hacked date.`
`02:35.22`	`tsowell`	`nah.. how about "Bad message", kill connection`
`02:35.26`	`A_Meteorite`	`yep`
`02:35.27`	`tsowell`	`that might throw them off a bit`
`02:35.31`	`A_Meteorite`	`it would`
`02:35.36`	`JeffM2501`	`how about just detect the freaking cheat?`
`02:35.43`	`JeffM2501`	`who cares what the version is`
`02:35.44`	`BearPerson`	`I know they can release dates whatever way they want`
`02:35.44`	`A_Meteorite`	`because we don't know how to`
`02:35.51`	`JeffM2501`	`then FIGURE IT OUT`
`02:35.53`	`JeffM2501`	`learn`
`02:35.57`	`A_Meteorite`	`and BZFlag is designed to be a LAN game :P`
`02:36.00`	`JeffM2501`	`it is`
`02:36.04`	`A_Meteorite`	`(hey, you said so yourself :P )`
`02:36.06`	`JeffM2501`	`but that dosn't mean it can't be fixed`
`02:36.12`	`captrespect`	`? a lan game`
`02:36.12`	`A_Meteorite`	`ummm`
`02:36.24`	`BinarySpike`	`If it were designed to be LAN it would use open stream and not data packets :-P`
`02:36.36`	`JeffM2501`	`BinarySpike, what?`
`02:36.37`	`A_Meteorite`	`just quoting Jeff`
`02:36.53`	`JeffM2501`	`it' trusts clients and dosn't deal with packetloss and high ping`
`02:37.02`	`JeffM2501`	`packets exist on an LAN`
`02:37.09`	`BinarySpike`	`yeah I know`
`02:37.09`	`JeffM2501`	`as well as the internet`
`02:37.30`	`BinarySpike`	`Normal LAN games use open stream it's easyer to implement than packets`
`02:37.40`	`JeffM2501`	`you can play around with version strings all you want, but in the end it will not provide a perminant solution`
`02:37.45`	`JeffM2501`	`and at some point you'll ban a real user`
`02:37.56`	`tsowell`	`someone should try to make a secure bzflag server that doesn't trust the clients at all`
`02:37.57`	`BearPerson`	`whack-a-mole`
`02:38.01`	`JeffM2501`	`BinarySpike, no, all the ones I know of use packets`
`02:38.12`	`BearPerson`	`but tracking shots isn't exactly easy, is it?`
`02:38.19`	`JeffM2501`	`the client does it`
`02:38.21`	`JeffM2501`	`you have the code`
`02:38.28`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not that hard`
`02:38.33`	`A_Meteorite`	`ummm`
`02:38.33`	`BearPerson`	`we're looking for a 2.0 solution ;-)`
`02:38.37`	`A_Meteorite`	`then why don't you do it? :)`
`02:38.40`	`JeffM2501`	`so`
`02:38.40`	`A_Meteorite`	`;0`
`02:38.45`	`JeffM2501`	`just move the tracking code over`
`02:38.48`	`JeffM2501`	`and add it as a check`
`02:38.52`	`JeffM2501`	`you don't need to change proto for that`
`02:39.01`	`A_Meteorite`	`hmmmm`
`02:39.08`	`JeffM2501`	`if you detect a kill and they don't respond in N seconds, boot em`
`02:39.14`	`JeffM2501`	`just like endshot credits`
`02:39.17`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not that hard`
`02:39.44`	`JeffM2501`	`there is nothing wrong with leting the client do it's own gamestate, as long as the servers is the one everyone trusts`
`02:39.48`	`BinarySpike`	`Then why isn't it in teh game?`
`02:39.57`	`JeffM2501`	`because noone has put it in`
`02:40.15`	`BinarySpike`	`ah... well I thought of that and didn't emplement it because there must have been a better reason`
`02:40.29`	`JeffM2501`	`because everyone goes off on version checks, or checksums, or locked binarys`
`02:40.37`	`JeffM2501`	`and never just looks at the core of the problem`
`02:40.55`	`JeffM2501`	`BinarySpike, you assume orginisation, people just do what they want`
`02:40.55`	`BinarySpike`	`Version strings is a easy fix... everybody wants the easy fix...`
`02:41.00`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not a fix`
`02:41.07`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not even a bandaid`
`02:41.26`	`JeffM2501`	`it' will stop that one build, it will take them 14.6 min to bypess it and post another build`
`02:41.35`	`JeffM2501`	`then what? you make another "fix" and update all servera?`
`02:41.36`	`BearPerson`	`everyone thinks doing all the calculations on the server is too much load on the server`
`02:41.48`	`JeffM2501`	`BearPerson, they are wrong`
`02:41.53`	`JeffM2501`	`every other net game does it`
`02:42.05`	`BinarySpike`	`I want horizontal teleporters!`
`02:42.08`	`JeffM2501`	`profile the client one day, see how much time isn't spent drawing`
`02:42.17`	`JeffM2501`	`BinarySpike, then freaking write them, you can code`
`02:42.22`	`BinarySpike`	`ROFL`
`02:42.31`	`BinarySpike`	`To busy with shots`
`02:42.37`	`JeffM2501`	`you allways say "I want, I want"`
`02:42.37`	`devster`	`i want a money making machine but that aint gonna happen! :)`
`02:42.55`	`BinarySpike`	`It could.. but we would all know... it was u`
`02:42.57`	`JeffM2501`	`the only things you get are the things you make happen`
`02:43.40`	`JeffM2501`	`if you don't know how, and arn't willing to learn, then you have to convince somone who does know how to do it`
`02:43.50`	`BinarySpike`	`Hey Jeff...`
`02:43.54`	`captrespect`	`what, you don't like coding for free?`
`02:44.09`	`JeffM2501`	`yes, BinarySpike ?`
`02:44.10`	`captrespect`	`you mean people get paid good money to do this kind of stuff?`
`02:44.19`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`02:44.21`	`JeffM2501`	`they don't`
`02:44.25`	`captrespect`	`I do`
`02:44.26`	`captrespect`	`:)`
`02:44.32`	`JeffM2501`	`not bzflag`
`02:44.42`	`JeffM2501`	`not by the project`
`02:44.44`	`captrespect`	`yes, not bzflag. but other things.`
`02:44.54`	`JeffM2501`	`sure, other projects are way more organised`
`02:45.00`	`BinarySpike`	`If you pay me $50 I write a reveloutionary AI bypass bot disabling :D`
`02:45.15`	`JeffM2501`	`what?`
`02:45.41`	`BinarySpike`	`Make a better bot AI and bypass disabling bots... so you just want to win... hit nine... hit nine`
`02:45.48`	`A_Meteorite`	`??`
`02:45.58`	`JeffM2501`	`again, waht?`
`02:46.08`	`JeffM2501`	`dude I've seen you code.....`
`02:46.10`	`BinarySpike`	`Haven't you heard of cell theory AI?`
`02:46.25`	`lan56`	`BinarySpike, autopilot is fairly easy to improve because it uses all the functions the human player does`
`02:46.33`	`JeffM2501`	`no I haven't but mostly I'm just trying to read what you said, it seems like your missing words`
`02:46.37`	`lan56`	`now the robots are tougher`
`02:46.45`	`BinarySpike`	`Just make a super robot...`
`02:46.51`	`A_Meteorite`	`I just want to stop the cheaters. :D`
`02:46.56`	`A_Meteorite`	`nothing fancy`
`02:47.04`	`JeffM2501`	`A_Meteorite, then help improve the server to detect the cheats`
`02:47.32`	`JeffM2501`	`the server is the only thing you can trust, because is the the only code you can be sure is unmodified`
`02:47.36`	`JeffM2501`	`as a server op`
`02:47.39`	`A_Meteorite`	`yeah`
`02:47.48`	`A_Meteorite`	`if I decided to do something...`
`02:47.52`	`A_Meteorite`	`should it be based off CVS?`
`02:47.58`	`A_Meteorite`	`2.1 or 2.0.x?`
`02:48.06`	`BinarySpike`	`Whoa! you can get 2.1 in CVS?`
`02:48.08`	`A_Meteorite`	`yes`
`02:48.14`	`BinarySpike`	`Neato...`
`02:48.21`	`A_Meteorite`	`there are only 4 servers for it`
`02:48.23`	`A_Meteorite`	`;)`
`02:48.31`	`BearPerson`	`if you're not careful, you already do by default, iirc`
`02:48.36`	`A_Meteorite`	`yep`
`02:48.37`	`JeffM2501`	`what ever you want to work in you work ing`
`02:48.53`	`JeffM2501`	`BinarySpike, dude 2.1 has been head since 2.0.x was branched, where you been?`
`02:48.58`	`A_Meteorite`	`JeffM2501, patches are best done on current, right?`
`02:49.11`	`*** join/#bzflag Ice_Wewe (n=Zeke@ppp-216-106-101-23.storm.ca)`
`02:49.13`	`JeffM2501`	`A_Meteorite, depends on what you want the patch do do`
`02:49.26`	`A_Meteorite`	`what you've been talking about, checking player shots`
`02:49.27`	`JeffM2501`	`if you expect people to apply it you tell them what version to go from`
`02:49.36`	`JeffM2501`	`if you want us to apply it we can work it in`
`02:49.48`	`A_Meteorite`	`I probably can't do it myself`
`02:49.54`	`JeffM2501`	`then you find help`
`02:49.56`	`A_Meteorite`	`but I like giving things a try :)`
`02:50.07`	`BinarySpike`	`find help... MACnus... :-P`
`02:50.20`	`A_Meteorite`	`lol`
`02:50.27`	`JeffM2501`	`how's your editor coming allong?`
`02:50.28`	`A_Meteorite`	`I want to help too! :D`
`02:50.32`	`A_Meteorite`	`bbl, time to eat dinner`
`02:51.48`	`BinarySpike`	`JeffM2501: How would one get shot positions out of a ShotPath data type?`
`02:52.05`	`BinarySpike`	`Specificly in SegmentedShotStrategy constructor`
`02:52.37`	`JeffM2501`	`look at how the client does it`
`02:52.41`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't know off the top of my head`
`02:53.03`	`BinarySpike`	`_path->getPosition()?`
`02:53.18`	`JeffM2501`	`do you even read what I type?`
`02:53.38`	`BinarySpike`	`HuH?`
`02:53.54`	`JeffM2501`	`serioulsy, what did I JUST type?`
`02:54.26`	`BinarySpike`	`"I don't know off the top of my head" ? :-P I know... I've been looking forever though...`
`02:54.52`	`JeffM2501`	`so then HOW could i answer you on if that function is correct or not?`
`02:55.12`	`BinarySpike`	`YESSS IT IS`
`02:55.25`	`lan56`	`you see what you can do when you try :)`
`02:55.32`	`JeffM2501`	`amazing, you can actualy try something, but it takes 3 IRC messages per function.`
`02:55.58`	`tsowell`	`JeffM2501: he's been asking all night :)`
`02:56.31`	`JeffM2501`	`that is his MO, it takes him about a night to figure out one function, just random fire asking people`
`02:56.37`	`JeffM2501`	`then he stumbles on it`
`02:56.37`	`BinarySpike`	`tsowell you gave me a direct path to it (lost it) but I think it's private data so I couldn't access it the way you showed me anyway :-P`
`02:56.45`	`JeffM2501`	`like using a debuger would kill ya`
`02:57.33`	`*** join/#bzflag BinarySpike (n=BinarySp@206-113-022-139.plateautel.net)`
`02:58.13`	`BinarySpike`	`ew, you declare class functions in ur header files...`
`02:58.31`	`tsowell`	`they're inlined, aren't they?`
`02:58.33`	`JeffM2501`	`for small ones it is common to do that`
`02:58.39`	`BinarySpike`	`ah`
`02:58.41`	`JeffM2501`	`usualy accessors`
`02:58.45`	`BinarySpike`	`quick C++ question...`
`02:59.02`	`lan56`	`hah`
`02:59.22`	`BinarySpike`	`void foo(int a) : foo2(a) { }`
`02:59.46`	`JeffM2501`	`void?`
`02:59.46`	`BinarySpike`	`What does ": foo2(a)" do?`
`02:59.58`	`JeffM2501`	`inits foo2 to a`
`03:00.05`	`BinarySpike`	`so it calls foo2?`
`03:00.09`	`tsowell`	`no`
`03:00.09`	`BinarySpike`	`when you call foo?`
`03:00.14`	`JeffM2501`	`depends what foo2 is`
`03:00.19`	`JeffM2501`	`is foo2 a type?`
`03:00.25`	`devster`	`should the void be there?`
`03:00.28`	`JeffM2501`	`it calls foo2's contstuctor with A`
`03:00.31`	`BinarySpike`	`I have no idea`
`03:00.33`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah the void is wierd`
`03:00.41`	`JeffM2501`	`no void would mean a constructor`
`03:00.42`	`tsowell`	`BinarySpike: that is only valid in a constructor`
`03:00.46`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`03:00.57`	`BinarySpike`	`I've never seen stuff between the function names and {`
`03:01.08`	`devster`	`eg, foo(int a) : bar(a) { ... }`
`03:01.11`	`BearPerson`	`it's no function name`
`03:01.13`	`JeffM2501`	`you can use it to init member vars, or call base class contstuctors`
`03:01.16`	`BearPerson`	`it's a constructor`
`03:01.27`	`JeffM2501`	`BinarySpike, LEARN C++`
`03:01.37`	`BinarySpike`	`That's not in either of my C++ books`
`03:01.39`	`tsowell`	`it should be more like foo_class::foo_class(int a) : member_integer(a) { }`
`03:01.41`	`BinarySpike`	`Already looked`
`03:01.46`	`Ice_Wewe`	`problem with BZFlag in x86_64. You can find the output of bzflag -d -d -d -d d -d -d -d here: http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/35121`
`03:01.48`	`tsowell`	`dude, what kind of books are they?`
`03:01.50`	`JeffM2501`	`then use teh itnernet`
`03:02.04`	`JeffM2501`	`Ice_Wewe, that's too many ds`
`03:02.08`	`JeffM2501`	`and you missed a -`
`03:02.09`	`Ice_Wewe`	`it's better than it was...`
`03:02.19`	`JeffM2501`	`it will only take up to 4`
`03:02.29`	`Ice_Wewe`	`JeffM2501: you get what I mean, it was actually this: "bzflag -d -d -d -d -d -d -d -d -d -d -d"`
`03:02.41`	`Ice_Wewe`	`JeffM2501: well it didn't complain when I gave it more...`
`03:02.51`	`Ice_Wewe`	`anyway, that's not the point`
`03:03.07`	`JeffM2501`	`you used an invalid pointer`
`03:03.12`	`JeffM2501`	`debug and see what the deal is`
`03:03.19`	`Ice_Wewe`	`the good news is, I went from having a broken version this morning, that is one that would crash my computer, because it would improperly flush my video card`
`03:03.30`	`Ice_Wewe`	`JeffM2501: what am I supposed to type in to debug now?`
`03:03.35`	`Ice_Wewe`	`bzflag -dddd`
`03:03.47`	`tsowell`	`are there some BZFlag coding guidelines anywhere?`
`03:03.51`	`Ice_Wewe`	`oh right, got it`
`03:04.06`	`lan56`	`tsowell, /bzflag/bzflag/DEVINFO`
`03:04.14`	`tsowell`	`lan56: great, thanks!`
`03:04.54`	`JeffM2501`	`in general, keep it ugly like the code allready is`
`03:05.02`	`Ice_Wewe`	`lol`
`03:05.13`	`Ice_Wewe`	`JeffM2501: what if he wanted to clean it up, would that be acceptable?`
`03:05.21`	`tsowell`	`hehe, I can't argue with that`
`03:05.38`	`A_Meteorite`	`baaaack`
`03:05.42`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`03:05.50`	`Ice_Wewe`	`A_Meteorite: oh good, I've been meaning to bug you`
`03:05.52`	`lan56`	`A_Meteorite, that was a quick dinner`
`03:05.53`	`Ice_Wewe`	`~wake A_Meteorite`
`03:05.58`	`ibot`	`A_Meteorite: GOOD MORNING!!!`
`03:05.58`	`lan56`	`carl's jr? :)`
`03:06.01`	`JeffM2501`	`he'd have to get new standards approved by tim`
`03:06.08`	`tsowell`	`I wouldn't even try.. too much work`
`03:06.11`	`A_Meteorite`	`Ice_Wewe, yes?`
`03:06.16`	`Ice_Wewe`	`ohh. That sounds like a lotta work`
`03:06.21`	`Ice_Wewe`	`A_Meteorite: bug bug bug. Ok, I'm done`
`03:06.30`	`A_Meteorite`	`lan56, I eat fast ;)`
`03:06.39`	`A_Meteorite`	`ummmm`
`03:06.41`	`Ice_Wewe`	`A_Meteorite: no kidding, did you stop to chew?`
`03:06.48`	`A_Meteorite`	`yes, I did`
`03:06.48`	`lan56`	`ahh I see`
`03:06.58`	`Ice_Wewe`	`;)`
`03:07.10`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone)`
`03:07.10`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ`
`03:07.29`	`A_Meteorite`	`I'm really interested in giving bzfs ability to check shots, etc..`
`03:07.31`	`Ice_Wewe`	`ahh, Tupone's here to make some much needed improvements to the source.`
`03:07.33`	`BinarySpike`	`[Users/BinarySpike/] BinarySpike % remove bzflag`
`03:07.34`	`BinarySpike`	removing `bzflag'...
`03:07.34`	`BinarySpike`	`done`
`03:07.35`	`A_Meteorite`	`but, I wouldn't know where to start, lol`
`03:07.35`	`BinarySpike`	`[process done]`
`03:07.59`	`BinarySpike`	`cvs commit bzflag`
`03:08.03`	`BinarySpike`	`;-)`
`03:08.08`	`A_Meteorite`	`heh`
`03:08.12`	`Ice_Wewe`	`Nooo!`
`03:08.40`	`JeffM2501`	`ohh man you are so clever and witty.. how ever do you live your yourself?`
`03:08.48`	`BinarySpike`	`ahh, just cleaned up the code a little don't worry man`
`03:09.01`	`Ice_Wewe`	`very carefully. ;)`
`03:09.12`	`JeffM2501`	`wow, was I that lame when I was a kid?`
`03:09.19`	`Ice_Wewe`	`yep`
`03:09.33`	`JeffM2501`	`then I'm glad I'm not a kid anymore`
`03:09.40`	`Ice_Wewe`	`yep, we are too`
`03:09.44`	`Ice_Wewe`	`;)`
`03:09.54`	`A_Meteorite`	`:P`
`03:09.54`	`Ice_Wewe`	`roflmao`
`03:10.19`	`brlcad`	`bzfs isn't a mystery`
`03:10.34`	`A_Meteorite`	`to someone who knows the basics of C++, it is`
`03:10.41`	`A_Meteorite`	`basics`
`03:10.45`	`JeffM2501`	`it's very simple`
`03:10.46`	`brlcad`	`pretty straightforward code`
`03:10.59`	`JeffM2501`	`it's only has hard as you make it`
`03:11.00`	`Ice_Wewe`	`JeffM2501: I hate to burst your bubble, but there's no difference in output when I compile bzflag --enable-debug, then before. Also, I get MORE information when I put MORE than 4 -d's on it`
`03:11.01`	`brlcad`	`way more simple than the client`
`03:11.18`	`A_Meteorite`	`yes, but I was interested in adding shot checks`
`03:11.21`	`Ice_Wewe`	`so, I get the same error when compiling with the debug flag`
`03:11.22`	`JeffM2501`	`Ice_Wewe, hey if you don't know how to use your debuger, then that's your problem, not mine`
`03:11.30`	`brlcad`	`there are already shot checks`
`03:11.39`	`A_Meteorite`	`not according to Jeff?`
`03:11.41`	`A_Meteorite`	`...`
`03:11.44`	`Ice_Wewe`	`JeffM2501: you just compile BZFlag with debug, right?`
`03:11.48`	`brlcad`	`depends what you're considering a check`
`03:11.56`	`JeffM2501`	`A_Meteorite, what are you taking about, I never said anything about us not having checks`
`03:12.00`	`A_Meteorite`	`well, the ones that stop God mode cheaters :P`
`03:12.01`	`JeffM2501`	`we have many shot checks`
`03:12.04`	`JeffM2501`	`just not the one you need`
`03:12.07`	`Ice_Wewe`	`lol`
`03:12.16`	`JeffM2501`	`don't put words in my mouth`
`03:12.21`	`Ice_Wewe`	`I have a lot of money, just not the same money you need...`
`03:12.35`	`JeffM2501`	`Ice_Wewe, can you please just shut the heck up?`
`03:12.38`	`A_Meteorite`	`I wasn't, AFAIK`
`03:12.38`	`Ice_Wewe`	`sure`
`03:12.43`	`JeffM2501`	`sericoyul I don't need your retard now`
`03:13.23`	`BinarySpike`	`Will I be this rude when I grow up?`
`03:13.27`	`JeffM2501`	`Ice_Wewe, go RUN your client in a debuger, don't just enable the debug symbols. if that isn't enough info for you then go learn how to use your compiler and ebuger`
`03:13.35`	`JeffM2501`	`BinarySpike, probably`
`03:13.40`	`BinarySpike`	`Sweet`
`03:13.42`	`JeffM2501`	`specialy after driving for 10 hours`
`03:13.50`	`tsowell`	`yeah, you have to warm up for it`
`03:13.54`	`JeffM2501`	`then being asked if you got the pM that you allrady repplied to`
`03:14.08`	`Ice_Wewe`	`(that wasn't Ice Wewe)`
`03:14.33`	`Ice_Wewe`	`hey JeffM2501, a stupid question, just because I don't know. What debugging environment can I BZFlag in?`
`03:14.49`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not a bzflag thing, its a your system thing`
`03:15.01`	`tsowell`	`Ice_Wewe: gdb?`
`03:15.04`	`JeffM2501`	`if your on linux then you probably have gdb`
`03:15.24`	`JeffM2501`	`there is also ddd, and other shells for the debugers`
`03:15.24`	`Ice_Wewe`	`yep. Now do I just type 'gdb bzflag'?`
`03:15.29`	`JeffM2501`	`man gdb`
`03:15.30`	`JeffM2501`	`go learn`
`03:15.34`	`Ice_Wewe`	`ok`
`03:15.52`	`brlcad`	`there are loads of tutorials on-line`
`03:15.57`	`tsowell`	`"gdb bzflag", then "run". but yeah, you'll want to RTFM anyway`
`03:16.06`	`brlcad`	`all much more efficient than here`
`03:17.34`	`JeffM2501`	`tsowell, if you are goin to help him please do it in a /msg`
`03:17.44`	`tsowell`	`all right`
`03:17.54`	`JeffM2501`	`the point was to not clutter this channel with crap he should be able to find out on his own`
`03:18.12`	`JeffM2501`	`not a huge rum fan, but thanks`
`03:18.23`	`JeffM2501`	`hopefully the 3rd vodka should kick in soon`
`03:18.37`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`03:18.41`	`lan56`	`is it okay that when a hunt target is spotted that the hunter should be alerted even if the hunted tank has ST? I ask because ST tanks don't appear for GM lock on or identify`
`03:19.02`	`lan56`	`yet they do for hunting, and I suppose it would use the same technology`
`03:19.05`	`brlcad`	`lan56: probably not`
`03:19.31`	`lan56`	`ahh, theres one thing I could fix`
`03:20.15`	`JeffM2501`	`now to see how the $13 GF 6200 runs in the crap machine`
`03:21.07`	`Ice_Wewe`	`JeffM2501: where do you get all this cheap stuff?`
`03:21.21`	`JeffM2501`	`wheel and deal`
`03:21.35`	`Ice_Wewe`	`cool`
`03:21.56`	`JeffM2501`	`gift cards + cash for my old video card that I gave to my parents + 13$ of my own money == gf6200`
`03:21.58`	`BinarySpike`	`Helping met... might be back to ask questions on storring death credits...`
`03:22.33`	`JeffM2501`	`woudn't have had to spend my own cash if the cards hadn't been from compUSA`
`03:22.47`	`lan56`	`thats the problem with gift cards`
`03:23.11`	`JeffM2501`	`my aunt and uncle mean well, they just don't know, so no biggie`
`03:24.12`	`JeffM2501`	`gpx runs at refresh now :)`
`03:24.18`	`JeffM2501`	`time to test swg`
`03:24.55`	`Thumper_`	`DOS attack is back: IP:68.123.152.173`
`03:25.16`	`BinarySpike`	`Arrgh, they were doing that to laser mania the other day`
`03:25.37`	`brlcad`	`Thumper_: how do you know?`
`03:25.50`	`Thumper_`	`my servers are hit right now`
`03:25.59`	`Thumper_`	`same MO`
`03:26.06`	`brlcad`	`can't upgrade them?`
`03:26.11`	`Thumper_`	`they are running latest CVS`
`03:26.16`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03lan56 * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/playing.cxx: if the hunted has ST, the hunter shouldn't be informed if they are spotted as GM lock on and identify don't inform either`
`03:26.27`	`brlcad`	`they what sort of DOS?`
`03:26.32`	`brlcad`	`s/they/then/`
`03:26.41`	`Thumper_`	`long garbage msgs to ALL`
`03:26.45`	`Thumper_`	`then a command`
`03:26.47`	`Thumper_`	`then the server goes away`
`03:26.51`	`Thumper_`	`in an infinite loop`
`03:27.02`	`BinarySpike`	`I wish you could block IP's`
`03:27.12`	`brlcad`	`BinarySpike: you can`
`03:27.14`	`captrespect`	`?`
`03:27.28`	`BinarySpike`	`Not through software... I mean through hardware like my router does port forwarding`
`03:28.12`	`tsowell`	`heh`
`03:28.13`	`brlcad`	`you can do it through hardware too, dunno what he's smoking`
`03:28.14`	`captrespect`	`BinarySpike just tried to enable port forwarding on his router`
`03:28.21`	`tsowell`	`haha`
`03:28.53`	`brlcad`	`Thumper_: do you have a trace of the infinite loop?`
`03:29.00`	`brlcad`	`that should get fixed`
`03:29.33`	`Thumper_`	`not yet - I'll try to get what information I can`
`03:29.42`	`Thumper_`	`will attach to running process with gdb and see what I can figure out`
`03:32.57`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03lan56 * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/GUIOptionsMenu.cxx: make the font smaller, it was starting to run into the console`
`03:33.30`	`brlcad`	`lan56 is on a roll`
`03:33.41`	`brlcad`	`hopefully he won't forget to update the news file ;)`
`03:34.01`	`lan56`	`the changelog?`
`03:34.25`	`brlcad`	`used to be the changelog`
`03:34.55`	`lan56`	`ahh I guess I need to update more files more often`
`03:35.01`	`brlcad`	`now where it's supposed to be, the NEWS file`
`03:35.19`	`lan56`	`ahh`
`03:38.19`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03lan56 * 10bzflag/NEWS: don't inform hunters of stealthy prey`
`03:42.52`	`Thumper_`	`brlcad: have some bt information - but have to go walk the dog...`
`03:43.02`	`brlcad`	`okies dokies`
`03:43.21`	`Thumper_`	`brlcad: have 7 servers in debug... to keep my cpu under control :/`
`03:43.33`	`Thumper_`	`want any of it before I go?`
`03:44.09`	`brlcad`	`sure`
`03:44.15`	`brlcad`	`send me a bt in pm`
`03:49.08`	`*** join/#bzflag bdotson (i=brian@pdpc/supporter/student/bdotson)`
`04:07.32`	`*** join/#bzflag RPG_ (n=G-bus@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net)`
`04:08.49`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: allow any whitespace after /me commands`
`04:09.45`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@68.49.10.243)`
`04:12.21`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx:`
`04:12.21`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: instead of just 'slash, not slash', all server commands should at least be`
`04:12.22`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 'slash, alpha'. this will prevent the current DOS du jour although more checks`
`04:12.22`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: are still needed in parseServerCommand() to prevent the infinite looping`
`04:22.21`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03lan56 * 10bzflag/src/bzadmin/BZAdminClient.cxx: check if the message is to be shown at all before we get involved (except for a few msgs that appearantly must be shown)`
`04:24.43`	`brlcad`	`fg`
`04:24.48`	`menotume`	`bg`
`04:25.40`	`tsowell`	`[1]+ Done nethack`
`04:26.25`	`*** join/#bzflag BinarySpike (n=BinarySp@206-113-022-139.plateautel.net)`
`04:26.41`	`*** join/#bzflag JohnDeere (n=JohnDeer@HSE-Toronto-ppp285297.sympatico.ca)`
`04:26.59`	`A_Meteorite`	`who's going to ask who? ;)`
`04:27.06`	`BinarySpike`	`yeti Jefff! Weee have cooome for you`
`04:27.11`	`JohnDeere`	`hmm, maybe I'd better :)`
`04:27.33`	`JohnDeere`	`shall we vote ?`
`04:27.42`	`tsowell`	`I keep getting DOSed by 206.113.22.139...`
`04:27.42`	`BinarySpike`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:27.50`	`BinarySpike`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:27.51`	`A_Meteorite`	`ban it :)`
`04:28.02`	`RPG_`	`DOSed?`
`04:28.06`	`RPG_`	`with bzflagboom?`
`04:28.07`	`A_Meteorite`	`umm`
`04:28.14`	`BinarySpike`	`DoS = Denial of service`
`04:28.18`	`A_Meteorite`	`block it on your router`
`04:28.19`	`A_Meteorite`	`:)`
`04:28.23`	`RPG_`	`yeah, i know THAT`
`04:28.29`	`menotume`	`inetersting IP`
`04:28.31`	`JohnDeere`	`Jeff, where does the server get told that a client has just hit someone else with his shot ?`
`04:28.32`	`*** join/#bzflag Tegan (n=lyra@eacb02-00-cmmgga-70-34-176-23.atlaga.adelphia.net)`
`04:28.35`	`menotume`	`:)`
`04:28.35`	`A_Meteorite`	`menotume!!`
`04:28.39`	`RPG_`	`IP: 206.113.22.139 Country: United States City: -, Oklahoma`
`04:28.48`	`tsowell`	`<PROTECTED>`
`04:28.51`	`A_Meteorite`	`do you know? :)`
`04:29.22`	`JohnDeere`	`in 2.1 there is a MsgHit, but I can't find it in 2.0.5`
`04:29.49`	`BinarySpike`	`HuH that's My IP!`
`04:29.54`	`A_Meteorite`	`yup`
`04:30.02`	`BinarySpike`	`How?`
`04:30.08`	`A_Meteorite`	`[20:26] *BinarySpike (n=BinarySp@206-113-022-139.plateautel.net) has joined #bzflag`
`04:30.22`	`menotume`	`:)`
`04:30.24`	`BinarySpike`	`No.. how could I be DOSing him...`
`04:30.30`	`A_Meteorite`	`...?`
`04:30.39`	`tsowell`	`it was a joke, man`
`04:30.43`	`brlcad`	`was someone drunk when they rewrote tokenize?`
`04:31.04`	`JohnDeere`	`I'll ask all of you, where does the server get told that a client has just hit someone else with his shot ?`
`04:31.19`	`JohnDeere`	`in 2.1 there is a MsgHit, but not in 2.0.5`
`04:31.20`	`A_Meteorite`	`We neeeeeeeed to know`
`04:32.17`	`RPG_`	`the client that was hit tells the server`
`04:32.24`	`menotume`	`right`
`04:32.28`	`JohnDeere`	`but how does the client find out?`
`04:32.29`	`A_Meteorite`	`ooooh`
`04:32.35`	`brlcad`	`JohnDeere: the client doesn't`
`04:32.41`	`RPG_`	`mathmatecal aloglortihms?`
`04:32.50`	`BinarySpike`	`so you don't know if you hit somebody?`
`04:32.55`	`brlcad`	`at least not yet`
`04:33.02`	`brlcad`	`in 2.0.x`
`04:33.03`	`A_Meteorite`	`what about in 2.1?`
`04:33.21`	`menotume`	`the cleitn that GETS hit knows`
`04:33.24`	`brlcad`	`the client notifies when _they_ die in 2.0`
`04:33.34`	`brlcad`	`they send a MsgKilled`
`04:33.42`	`brlcad`	`src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx`
`04:33.46`	`A_Meteorite`	`but they don't have to do, they?`
`04:33.53`	`bdotson`	`no`
`04:33.56`	`bdotson`	`hence cheating`
`04:33.59`	`brlcad`	`they have to if they're not a cheat client`
`04:33.59`	`menotume`	`no, that's how one does god mode`
`04:34.00`	`JohnDeere`	`how does the client that gets hit know when it gets hit ?`
`04:34.00`	`A_Meteorite`	`thought so`
`04:34.20`	`A_Meteorite`	`it just "knows"?`
`04:34.20`	`JeffM2501`	`every client has a copy of all the shots`
`04:34.21`	`menotume`	`JohnDeere: when they get the MsgKilled`
`04:34.23`	`brlcad`	`JohnDeere: the client performs a kill test`
`04:34.28`	`JohnDeere`	`ahh, ok`
`04:34.37`	`menotume`	`oh, oop`
`04:34.37`	`brlcad`	`they determine whether they are shot or not`
`04:34.43`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03lan56 * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/ (clientCommands.cxx playing.cxx): check if we are falling when we want to pause. it previously only checked if we had jumped`
`04:34.45`	`JohnDeere`	`ok`
`04:34.57`	`brlcad`	`if they determine they are, they relay a MsgKilled packet`
`04:35.23`	`menotume`	`just go get the cheat client, log into your favorite server and get banned :)`
`04:35.34`	`brlcad`	`only caveat is that the server can kill players too`
`04:35.35`	`bdotson`	`so are there any plans to do server-side kill checks`
`04:35.42`	`bdotson`	`or will it remain like this`
`04:35.56`	`JohnDeere`	`I wasn't planning a cheat client, rather a anti-cheat server :)`
`04:36.00`	`lan56`	`that sounds like a massive demand on the cpu to do server side checks`
`04:36.05`	`menotume`	`:)`
`04:36.07`	`RPG_`	`hey bcheater!`
`04:36.13`	`JeffM2501`	`not realy`
`04:36.17`	`bdotson`	`no it's not`
`04:36.24`	`bdotson`	`i will code one this weekend`
`04:36.26`	`bdotson`	`to show that it's not`
`04:36.27`	`brlcad`	`bdotson: it's long been a plan to fix eventually`
`04:36.30`	`bdotson`	`that's such a stupid reason`
`04:36.35`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a very very small amount of time compared to drawing`
`04:36.58`	`lan56`	`ahh I expected to probably be wrong :(`
`04:37.05`	`JeffM2501`	`the people that say it's cpu intensive have 0 clue what they speak about`
`04:37.10`	`brlcad`	`bdotson: it's not cpu intensive, it's simply not been the design -- the game logic has slowly been moving server-side`
`04:37.14`	`lan56`	`that would be me`
`04:37.20`	`JeffM2501`	`just profile the client`
`04:37.26`	`JeffM2501`	`see how much time is spent not drawing`
`04:37.33`	`brlcad`	`it's only recently that it's even been relatively simple to perform the kill check server-side`
`04:37.34`	`JeffM2501`	`that's how much the gamestate takes`
`04:37.39`	`JeffM2501`	`and server would do less`
`04:38.23`	`JeffM2501`	`there are many articles on how to code net games to prevent various types of cheating`
`04:38.27`	`JeffM2501`	`all over the net`
`04:38.42`	`A_Meteorite`	`we were attempting to mod bzfs 2.0.x for anti-cheat`
`04:38.47`	`A_Meteorite`	`while keeping protocol`
`04:38.54`	`menotume`	`gl with that`
`04:38.55`	`BinarySpike`	`anti-godmode*`
`04:38.59`	`JeffM2501`	`it should not be hard to do at all`
`04:39.05`	`A_Meteorite`	`me, binaryspike, and johndeere`
`04:39.40`	`BinarySpike`	`Where does a client find out it died?`
`04:39.47`	`A_Meteorite`	`JeffM2501: Any hints? ;)`
`04:39.51`	`menotume`	`aren't there going to be lag issues ?`
`04:39.56`	`JeffM2501`	`just follow the message in the cleint`
`04:39.57`	`brlcad`	`server knows where all the players are and gets updates of all the shots, just a matter of checking shots against player locations as they come in to see if someone doesn't die when they should`
`04:40.02`	`A_Meteorite`	`ok`
`04:40.04`	`JeffM2501`	`menotume, the client still does it's check`
`04:40.07`	`JeffM2501`	`so no`
`04:40.15`	`JeffM2501`	`the only time it kicks in is when the checks don't match`
`04:40.17`	`JeffM2501`	`aka a cheater`
`04:40.21`	`JeffM2501`	`or someone REALY lagy`
`04:40.52`	`menotume`	`uh, but, local client dodges a shot (quickly) back and forth`
`04:41.04`	`menotume`	`but server says, nahh, he was killed`
`04:41.12`	`JeffM2501`	`that is one problem of it, the client will then send dodge updates`
`04:41.13`	`menotume`	`cause server didn;t get all the updates`
`04:41.16`	`JeffM2501`	`so you can check that`
`04:41.40`	`JeffM2501`	`you can't say they are cheating till you get all the update before and after the shot event`
`04:41.43`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not an instant thing`
`04:41.48`	`menotume`	`nright`
`04:41.51`	`brlcad`	`it's not going to be a solveable problem without timestamping and sync'd states`
`04:41.58`	`menotume`	`i just hope that ME doesn't screw it up`
`04:42.03`	`menotume`	`right`
`04:42.16`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah with out timestamps there will be cracks`
`04:42.25`	`JeffM2501`	`that will fall thru`
`04:42.32`	`brlcad`	`but you should be able to at least detect blatent cheating`
`04:43.06`	`JeffM2501`	`you could keep a "cheat" count, that goes up for every death that you think they miss, and down for all that match`
`04:43.18`	`JeffM2501`	`then only boot em when they get to a certan level`
`04:43.22`	`menotume`	`yes`
`04:43.25`	`BinarySpike`	`Tjat`
`04:43.28`	`A_Meteorite`	`got to get to bed, g'night all`
`04:43.31`	`JeffM2501`	`that way you can be ok to look over one or 3`
`04:43.35`	`BinarySpike`	`That's to advanced for us though...`
`04:43.57`	`JeffM2501`	`why is it too advanced for you?`
`04:44.02`	`menotume`	`alwyas x`
`04:44.03`	`JeffM2501`	`it's just simple logic?`
`04:44.13`	`menotume`	`x1, x2 if you need more`
`04:44.29`	`BinarySpike`	`simple logic... no way`
`04:44.35`	`JeffM2501`	`ummm yeah`
`04:44.41`	`JeffM2501`	`increment on each bad test,`
`04:44.46`	`JeffM2501`	`decrement on each real death`
`04:44.50`	`JeffM2501`	`if it's over a limit, kick`
`04:44.52`	`BinarySpike`	`Yeah... but how would you test?`
`04:44.53`	`JeffM2501`	`use your brain man`
`04:45.11`	`JeffM2501`	`every update compute tank intersections`
`04:45.24`	`JeffM2501`	`if you get a shot tank intersection, mark a flag with the time of the hit`
`04:45.42`	`JeffM2501`	`then wait for an update after it, if that update dosn't move them out of range, you say they should have died`
`04:46.01`	`JeffM2501`	`and if they don't give a killed message, then you mark them as a possible cheater ( increment there cheat score )`
`04:46.10`	`BinarySpike`	`Yeah I got the last parts`
`04:46.18`	`JeffM2501`	`if they do give you a message killed, then decrement`
`04:46.18`	`BinarySpike`	`but how would I calculate a shot tank intersection?`
`04:46.25`	`menotume`	`poor ME users :)`
`04:46.26`	`JeffM2501`	`the same way the client does`
`04:46.29`	`JeffM2501`	`it's ALLL there`
`04:46.37`	`JeffM2501`	`menotume, the ME people will send updates on fast moves`
`04:46.51`	`JeffM2501`	`so if the server waits till it gets the moves it can know they dodged`
`04:46.57`	`menotume`	`yes, i just hope that 30 msg/sec is enough`
`04:47.05`	`menotume`	`for the detail of their path`
`04:47.07`	`JeffM2501`	`they send more then that`
`04:47.13`	`menotume`	`huh ?`
`04:47.22`	`JeffM2501`	`the fast move breaks the DR thing, and they will send an imediate update`
`04:47.24`	`menotume`	`it's clampled to 30/sec (server option)`
`04:47.38`	`menotume`	`it's clamped to 30/sec`
`04:47.42`	`JeffM2501`	`there is code that checks if the current pos is too far out`
`04:47.45`	`JeffM2501`	`of the DR`
`04:47.49`	`JeffM2501`	`it's still clamped?`
`04:47.57`	`menotume`	`i would HOPE so`
`04:48.03`	`JeffM2501`	`I thought the DR thing overrode that`
`04:48.11`	`menotume`	`there has to be a limit`
`04:48.33`	`JeffM2501`	`there is an efective limit based on how fast the tank moves`
`04:48.40`	`JeffM2501`	`the cleint computes what it's DR pos would be`
`04:48.54`	`menotume`	`if running in a circle ...`
`04:48.55`	`JeffM2501`	`if it's off from where it is suposed to be by some value it sends an update`
`04:49.10`	`menotume`	`how many would be sent ?`
`04:49.12`	`JeffM2501`	`well then the server can increase the max if it's running this cheat protection`
`04:49.19`	`menotume`	`yes, true`
`04:49.23`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't recall off the top of my head`
`04:49.29`	`JeffM2501`	`there is some spacial limit tho`
`04:49.32`	`menotume`	`and, hopefully the clients can keepup :)`
`04:49.39`	`JeffM2501`	`and a max turning rad...`
`04:50.08`	`JeffM2501`	`for true authortive server, that solves all your problems, the net stuff needs to be changed`
`04:50.15`	`JeffM2501`	`they should be able to get the major people tho`
`04:50.37`	`menotume`	`yes, with the counter/limit`
`04:51.06`	`JohnDeere`	`so Jeff, all I would need to do is take the client shot code, and put it into the server to check for hits ?`
`04:51.08`	`JeffM2501`	`the fact that the mouse speed can change the performance variables of the tank, show a big flaw in the entire simulation state of bzflag`
`04:51.35`	`JeffM2501`	`JohnDeere, that is the basic idea, yes, but geting it to work will take a fair amount of coding`
`04:51.36`	`menotume`	`i agree, it wasn't designed for it`
`04:51.40`	`JeffM2501`	`since the server dosn't have a gamestate`
`04:51.43`	`JeffM2501`	`you'll be adding one`
`04:51.56`	`JohnDeere`	`yeah, I've no problem with that std:vector probably :)`
`04:52.05`	`JohnDeere`	`or map`
`04:52.13`	`JeffM2501`	`and it's more then just adding some files, you'll need to get all the messages hooked in right, and all the shots update, and stuff`
`04:52.26`	`JohnDeere`	`yeah, that would be the long part`
`04:52.30`	`JeffM2501`	`you also need to have the server know all about the map`
`04:52.38`	`JeffM2501`	`since it needs to know when shots hit walls`
`04:53.11`	`*** join/#bzflag bdotson (i=brian@pdpc/supporter/student/bdotson)`
`04:53.11`	`JohnDeere`	`yeah, hmm, this is quite a bit of work, but I think that it would help in future versions :)`
`04:53.16`	`menotume`	`no biggie, bdotson will do it this weekend`
`04:53.28`	`bdotson`	`i will implement something SIMPLE this weekend`
`04:53.31`	`JohnDeere`	`but would he ?`
`04:53.33`	`brlcad`	`JohnDeere: there's a PositionTracker class that can readily be used to keep track of all the tanks and shots`
`04:53.35`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not hard, it's just tedious, if your using the same code from the client`
`04:53.38`	`bdotson`	`i wasn't infering that i would implement an end-all solution`
`04:53.47`	`JeffM2501`	`I'd personaly implment a new class just for the server, using the same logic style`
`04:53.49`	`brlcad`	`and you can ask for distances between them, and it'll report`
`04:54.00`	`JohnDeere`	`'cause Met, Binary and I want to stop this latest cheating outrage :)`
`04:54.14`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah I'd just add more stuff to the pos tracker`
`04:54.17`	`BinarySpike`	`" JeffM2501: since it needs to know when shots hit walls" can't you just use Shot segments?`
`04:54.29`	`JeffM2501`	`BinarySpike, that is a client class`
`04:54.32`	`JeffM2501`	`not a server class`
`04:54.36`	`JeffM2501`	`that's part of what you'd have to move over`
`04:54.42`	`JeffM2501`	`the segement calculator uses the map`
`04:54.49`	`brlcad`	`the pos tracker was mainly just intended as a container, maybe a DeadReckoning class that utilizes the PositionTracker`
`04:55.11`	`JeffM2501`	`you'd want to modify that dr class to use segments and stuff`
`04:55.53`	`brlcad`	`the position tracker could then be shared for other gamestate activities, like distance-based packet culling (which is what I originally wrote it for (and it worked))`
`04:55.55`	`menotume`	`JohnDeere: theat cheat client was announced today. Just ban them when they come :)`
`04:55.57`	`JeffM2501`	`BinarySpike, before you do it on the server, you should follow it thru on the cloient`
`04:56.23`	`JohnDeere`	`the cheat client has been around for a few days`
`04:56.42`	`menotume`	`heck, i even banned they guy who came to DUB to advertise it :)`
`04:56.46`	`brlcad`	`the cheat itself has been around for years`
`04:56.47`	`bdotson`	`someone else wrote a cheat client?`
`04:57.06`	`brlcad`	`one of the most simple cheats to make`
`04:57.10`	`tsowell`	`who hasn't written a cheat client?`
`04:57.12`	`JohnDeere`	`yeah`
`04:57.14`	`JohnDeere`	`me`
`04:57.20`	`JohnDeere`	`I haven't`
`04:57.22`	`tsowell`	`yeah, me either. but you know what I mean`
`04:57.31`	`bdotson`	`tsowell: tuche. i suspect a lot have and just don't advertise`
`04:57.33`	`*** join/#bzflag BinarySpike (n=BinarySp@206-113-022-139.plateautel.net)`
`04:57.35`	`bdotson`	`in fact i know they have`
`04:57.40`	`brlcad`	`the caliber of cheat clients is sadly decreasing :)`
`04:57.41`	`bdotson`	`i've been the victim of subtle cheats`
`04:57.49`	`tsowell`	`I wouldn't be surprised. it's painfully easy`
`04:58.01`	`tsowell`	`if not kind of boring...`
`04:58.15`	`Tegan`	`hey brlcad`
`04:58.19`	`BinarySpike`	`about the cheat client... I heard Lord Jesus used it a pre-made one so I went at googled it... :'( flag coloring and subtle turn speed enhancments`
`04:58.20`	`tsowell`	`I'd rather do something beneficial with my coding time`
`04:58.40`	`tsowell`	`hm, is flag coloring that bad?`
`04:58.44`	`JohnDeere`	`my bro once made a private (never went on a public server) one, and its GM's turned on a dime, and went through buildings :)`
`04:59.01`	`BinarySpike`	`Which bro?`
`05:00.22`	`BinarySpike`	`lol, nvm`
`05:01.31`	`JohnDeere`	`well Bin, looks like we're gonna have to add shot tracking to the server, but I'm sure the entire BZFlag community, including ALL the developers will highly applaud us once done :D`
`05:02.18`	`BinarySpike`	`Arrgh, applaud...`
`05:02.26`	`JohnDeere`	`what?`
`05:03.43`	`brlcad`	`seriously, check out the PositionTracker, adding a DeadReckoning class that utilizes it -- populate the position tracker as MsgShotBegins arrive and MsgPlayerUpdates are received`
`05:04.16`	`BinarySpike`	`I can't think this late... I'll probably write a documentation file later...`
`05:04.17`	`brlcad`	`update the tracker each server timestep, validating with the dead reckoner`
`05:04.30`	`BinarySpike`	`brb...`
`05:04.35`	`brlcad`	`also validate with the dead reckoner as MsgKilled's come in`
`05:04.58`	`JohnDeere`	`ok, thanks, I'll check that out`
`05:07.16`	`Tegan`	`~seen silent_swan`
`05:07.19`	`ibot`	`silent_swan <n=silent@adsl-64-108-223-145.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 72d 3h 58m 13s ago, saying: 'brb.. need to fix something.'.`
`05:07.31`	`brlcad`	`the only real "work" is writing the dead reckoner such that it detects whether a player died within some given time window and if not, counting how many times that happens`
`05:07.41`	`Tegan`	`~seen silentswan`
`05:07.43`	`ibot`	`silentswan <n=cygnus@unaffiliated/silentswan> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 21d 23h 32m 31s ago, saying: 'anyway, since i do not even play this game anymore, i guess it's safe to say i don't belong here. probably never did to begin with, so... bye.'.`
`05:07.48`	`brlcad`	`:(`
`05:07.54`	`menotume`	`ohh :(`
`05:07.55`	`Tegan`	`:'(`
`05:08.44`	`JohnDeere`	`brlcad: thanks`
`05:08.58`	`JohnDeere`	`ok, I have to go now now`
`05:09.12`	`JohnDeere`	`thanks for your help`
`05:09.35`	`brlcad`	`Thumper_: ping`
`05:09.54`	`Thumper_`	`brlcad: pong`
`05:10.06`	`*** part/#bzflag JohnDeere (n=JohnDeer@HSE-Toronto-ppp285297.sympatico.ca)`
`05:10.43`	`brlcad`	`Thumper_: got any more of those traces?`
`05:11.02`	`Thumper_`	`um not anymore - they all looked like the one I sent you`
`05:11.16`	`brlcad`	`all _exactly_ the same, or just close?`
`05:11.27`	`Thumper_`	`well except for the message data part`
`05:11.35`	`Thumper_`	`sorry - they're gone now`
`05:11.47`	`Thumper_`	`I'll send you more if I get any`
`05:11.51`	`Thumper_`	`running the latest patch now`
`05:11.52`	`brlcad`	`all in find_first_not_of()`
`05:11.56`	`Thumper_`	`yes`
`05:12.46`	`brlcad`	`that fix will prevent the specific problem that I saw just by preventing processing of server messages that don't start with /[a-z]`
`05:12.54`	`Thumper_`	`ok`
`05:13.15`	`brlcad`	`so a 1-char fix to that client will likely get them going again`
`05:13.22`	`brlcad`	`until I can figure out why tokenize() is stuck`
`05:13.25`	`Thumper_`	`all the bt's that had anything useful in them looked like the same thing`
`05:13.33`	`Thumper_`	`ok`
`05:13.57`	`brlcad`	`i just wish I knew which of the two find_first_not_of() it's stuck in`
`05:15.30`	`Thumper_`	`I have a bunch of 'junk' in my logs from this`
`05:15.39`	`Thumper_`	`not sure if any of that is useful`
`05:15.48`	`captrespect`	`I like how if you try to connect, and it times out and if you try again, bzflag will hang till you kill -9 it`
`05:15.54`	`Thumper_`	`I log the command before it executes`
`05:16.37`	`brlcad`	`captrespect: the timeout is very long`
`05:16.52`	`brlcad`	`how long have you waited`
`05:17.09`	`captrespect`	`10 seconds`
`05:17.11`	`captrespect`	`or so`
`05:17.16`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`05:17.29`	`brlcad`	`i mean how long did you wait before kill -9'ing`
`05:17.46`	`captrespect`	`I ain't got that kind a time. I have to pretend to be working`
`05:18.00`	`brlcad`	`not asking you to wait`
`05:18.05`	`brlcad`	`asking how long did you wait`
`05:18.12`	`captrespect`	`a couple minutes`
`05:18.20`	`brlcad`	`a couple as in 2?`
`05:18.30`	`captrespect`	`maybe`
`05:18.46`	`captrespect`	`how long is the timeout? the first timeout seems to work.`
`05:18.49`	`brlcad`	`k, that's under the possible timeout delay for the second lookup`
`05:18.58`	`brlcad`	`10 minutes or somesuch`
`05:19.09`	`captrespect`	`wow, that is a long time`
`05:19.16`	`brlcad`	`file a bug report ;)`
`05:19.24`	`captrespect`	`nah, I don't care that much`
`05:20.41`	`*** join/#bzflag SportChick (n=SportChi@ca-redbch-cuda1-c3b-a-40.stmnca.adelphia.net)`
`05:22.10`	`*** part/#bzflag captrespect (n=captresp@dsl017-059-206.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`05:32.16`	`brlcad`	`lan56: that myTank->isFalling() implies that someone isn't setting LocalPlayer::InAir to me`
`05:32.32`	`brlcad`	`if you're falling, you should be InAir`
`05:42.28`	`brlcad`	`okie dokie, this one is a dewsie`
`05:42.40`	`brlcad`	`i'll need some kind server admins running latest cvs to test this one out`
`05:43.39`	`brlcad`	`s/latest/latest 2.0.5 or whatever we're up to now.. ;)/`
`05:48.15`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/common/TextUtils.cxx:`
`05:48.15`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: there are DOS attacks causing an infinite loop in the tokenizer. trace showed`
`05:48.15`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: it stuck in find_first_not_of() so presuming it's not the first one, this fix`
`05:48.15`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: should abort out better when the end of the input is reached. the`
`05:48.15`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 'enoughTokens' counter test doesn't need to break, that's the job of the while`
`05:48.16`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: loop test that immediately follows. suspicions point to trying a`
`05:48.18`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: find_first_not_of() with a bad pos (probably > len).`
`05:50.11`	`orange`	`brlcad: huh? :-)`
`05:50.47`	`brlcad`	`that commit to 2.0 needs some testing`
`05:50.53`	`Thumper_`	`brlcad: so how do you want it tested? just run it and see what happens?`
`05:51.01`	`brlcad`	`the tokenizer is pretty tricky`
`05:51.15`	`lan56`	`brlcad: sry I am late, I was eating dinner. let me take a look at the path leading to falling`
`05:51.16`	`brlcad`	`i either really screwed it up, or it fixes the DOS problem`
`05:51.35`	`Thumper_`	`I'm willing to break my servers using it :)`
`05:51.42`	`Thumper_`	`no worse than the DOS attack itself`
`05:51.42`	`brlcad`	`lan56: no problemo, just noticed`
`05:51.42`	`Thumper_`	`:)`
`05:51.49`	`brlcad`	`heh, well .. :)`
`05:52.11`	`brlcad`	`again, if it fails, it's going to fail hard more than likely, incorrectly tokenizing commands :)`
`05:52.25`	`Thumper_`	`ok`
`05:52.30`	`brlcad`	`going to add one more sanity check to make sure all messages are mostly legible`
`05:52.43`	`Thumper_`	`I'll wait then... say "when"`
`05:52.55`	`brlcad`	`that should cut the "feed you random crap" attacks from hitting the logs at least`
`05:53.15`	`brlcad`	`if your not on anonymous, then when`
`05:53.28`	`brlcad`	`no sense waiting for this last bit`
`05:53.38`	`Thumper_`	`k`
`06:17.54`	`Thumper_`	`brlcad: okay new code is running. no players now but servers seem to function okay`
`06:18.14`	`Thumper_`	`it's late so I'm off to bed - will check them in the morning`
`06:20.33`	`brlcad`	`Thumper_: is that using that latest commit?`
`06:20.44`	`Thumper_`	`yes`
`06:21.00`	`Thumper_`	`after you said 'when' from dev cvs`
`06:21.04`	`brlcad`	`did you try running a command like /me something or /kick blah balh`
`06:21.30`	`Thumper_`	`I did /playerlist and /clientquery`
`06:21.35`	`Thumper_`	`will do the others - hold on`
`06:21.39`	`brlcad`	`something that takes an arg`
`06:22.24`	`Thumper_`	`seems to work fine`
`06:22.28`	`Thumper_`	`I can kick myself :)`
`06:22.29`	`brlcad`	`excellent`
`06:22.44`	`brlcad`	`hopefully it fixes the problem`
`06:22.50`	`Thumper_`	`so far anyway ;)`
`06:22.50`	`brlcad`	`maybe, maybe not`
`06:23.10`	`Thumper_`	`I'll tell you tomorrow if the servers crash and burn ;)`
`06:23.12`	`brlcad`	`another trace like that if it goes into a loop will be gold`
`06:23.19`	`Thumper_`	`ok`
`06:23.22`	`Thumper_`	`I can do that`
`06:23.30`	`brlcad`	`~Thumper_++`
`06:23.48`	`Thumper_`	`oooh karma... haven't had that in ages`
`06:23.49`	`Thumper_`	`:D`
`06:24.10`	`Thumper_`	`brlcad++`
`06:24.13`	`Thumper_`	`for actually fixing it...`
`06:24.21`	`Thumper_`	`~brlcad++`
`06:24.22`	`Thumper_`	`:-P`
`06:24.42`	`Thumper_`	`nighit`
`06:25.15`	`Thumper_`	`night*`
`06:25.17`	`Thumper_`	`cya`
`06:25.43`	`brlcad`	`cya`
`06:25.45`	`brlcad`	`and thanks`
`06:25.54`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/ChangeLog: Fixed issue with Denial-of-service message attacks`
`06:26.44`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/ChangeLog: meh, s/Den/den/`
`06:29.15`	`lan56`	`brlcad: I am having a hard time finding where PlayerState::Falling is set to true. I tried adding an else{} at line 757 in LocalPlayer.cxx and that fails`
`06:29.39`	`lan56`	`I think that line I mentioned is where it sets falling to true, but I can't seem to fix the InAir issue`
`06:31.00`	`lan56`	`yawn kobe got cocky again and lost the game for the Lakers`
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`06:46.51`	`brlcad`	`lan56: try tracing back all the places where/how InAir gets set`
`06:47.04`	`lan56`	`ok sure thing`
`06:48.31`	`lan56`	`actually how would that find where falling is set? because currently when falling is set to true InAir isn't touched, therefore finding InAir's path wouldn't involve finding where falling is, which is what we want`
`06:48.44`	`lan56`	`I have a feeling I am wrong somehow, tho`
`06:49.28`	`brlcad`	`no, you're right -- the problem is that InAir isn't getting set, I was just having you look up how it is set while I looked at Falling real quick ;)`
`06:49.49`	`lan56`	`ahh ok I will look it up :)`
`06:53.07`	`lan56`	`ok, if the player is on a building higher than ground level then line 625 in LocalPlayer.cxx sets location = InAir. if the player has jumped, line 1350 in LocalPlayer.cxx sets InAir`
`06:56.26`	`brlcad`	`wow Falling is only set in once place`
`06:57.02`	`lan56`	`752 area in LocalPlayer.cxx IIRC`
`06:57.40`	`brlcad`	`763 to be exact`
`06:58.53`	`brlcad`	`if we're not OnGround, OnBuilding, or InBuilding at 0.0 elevation`
`06:59.13`	`brlcad`	`and we're either InAir or InBuilding`
`06:59.19`	`lan56`	`right`
`06:59.51`	`brlcad`	`so if we're falling through a building, InAir won't be set`
`07:00.12`	`brlcad`	`that much makes sense so far`
`07:00.17`	`lan56`	`but what if we are falling through mid air?`
`07:01.13`	`brlcad`	`that's where finding where InAir gets set comes into play`
`07:01.27`	`lan56`	`indeed`
`07:05.08`	`lan56`	`brlcad: I oughta take a shower and groom,etc... then hit the hay. I apologize I must leave in the middle of this but feel free to leave me memos or email me or bzbb PM for anything in the mean time. I will keep on top of this too and be looking out for a fix`
`07:05.17`	`lan56`	`thanks for all the help`
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`07:42.23`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx:`
`07:42.23`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: check the message being sent for invalid characters. long unreadable messages`
`07:42.23`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: are indicative of denial-of-service attacks and crash attempts. remove the`
`07:42.23`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: player immediately, only modified clients should be sending such garbage chat`
`07:42.23`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: messages. that said, allow a few if only to provide a means for magic byte`
`07:42.25`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: client-side display processing like was used for the /me command.`
`07:49.51`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: merge the denial-of-service changes from v2_0branch to HEAD, check for garbage messages`
`07:51.07`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/src/common/TextUtils.cxx: merge the denial-of-service changes from v2_0branch to HEAD, prevent an infinite loop in the tokenizer`
`07:57.19`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/NEWS: Prevent bzfs denial-of-service infinite loop; Minimize attempts to crash servers with malformed messages; merge from v2_0branch: Fixed issue with denial-of-service message attacks`
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`09:03.00`	`brlcad`	`buenos dias _Manu_`
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`09:50.20`	`{janis}`	`hi a;;`
`09:50.22`	`{janis}`	`hi all`
`09:50.29`	`{janis}`	`i have qustion!! :D`
`09:50.52`	`{janis}`	`how to create server?`
`09:52.03`	`{janis}`	`lease guys say`
`09:57.35`	`sniperyyd`	`~man bzw`
`09:57.36`	`ibot`	`rumour has it, man bzw is http://my.bzflag.org/bzfman.cgi?bzw.5s`
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`15:32.22`	`Thumper_`	`brlcad: ping`
`15:41.39`	`brlcad`	`Thumper_: sup`
`15:42.35`	`Thumper_`	`the servers are still running but the perp. hasn't returned to try and break things (yet)`
`15:42.52`	`Thumper_`	`what's the SOP on updating Changelog and NEWS ?`
`15:43.07`	`Thumper_`	`I added some plugin hooks and a plugin awhile back but`
`15:43.13`	`Thumper_`	`never did anything with either of these`
`15:45.04`	`brlcad`	`you don't need to update Changelog on CVS head, but would on v2_0branch`
`15:45.18`	`brlcad`	`on v2_0branch, Changelog == NEWS and NEWS doesn't exist`
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`15:45.52`	`brlcad`	`the news file is a log of all _user_visible_ changes`
`15:46.07`	`brlcad`	`so if there's a user that can see a change you've made, a line should go into the news file`
`15:46.33`	`brlcad`	`conventionally, this is a simple one-liner that summarizes the change and who made it`
`15:46.39`	`Thumper_`	`define user :) is a plugin author a user ? or just things players notice`
`15:46.42`	`brlcad`	`the line should fit within 80 columns`
`15:46.47`	`Thumper_`	`ie new functions etc for plugins`
`15:47.27`	`brlcad`	`if it's something I'll notice when I fire up the client and start playing, or something I'll notice when I run a server`
`15:47.32`	`spldart`	`I tried X11.org 6.8 etch version from debian... It auto recognized the card and loaded r350 module or something like that. I only got partial acceleration though on BZflag... and the bz client popped up something along the lines of "indirect opengl" or some such thing. :(`
`15:47.37`	`brlcad`	`not other developers`
`15:47.39`	`Thumper_`	`ok`
`15:48.07`	`Thumper_`	`thanks`
`15:48.13`	`brlcad`	`so "added new shockwave plugin - Joe Smoe" might be one since both players and server ops might want to knwo that`
`15:48.24`	`brlcad`	`fixed bug in plugin foo, etc`
`15:49.21`	`spldart`	`BTW: the unstable 'etch' version of deb netinst is definitely unstable ;-)`
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`15:57.18`	`Tupone`	`spldart: have you checked the /var/log/Xserver.0.log`
`15:58.20`	`Tupone`	`you probably have permission problem on drm. Check if the xorg.conf has a section for it with permission 0666`
`15:59.08`	`spldart`	`Thanks Tupone... I'll check that when I get home today :)`
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`16:00.13`	`Tupone`	`normally /dev/dri/card* are not accessible from user, unless you ask it on xorg.conf`
`16:00.15`	`spldart`	`can a quick check be logging in and starting x session as root?`
`16:00.24`	`Tupone`	`yep`
`16:00.26`	`spldart`	`then starting bzflag`
`16:00.38`	`Tupone`	`within root, yes`
`16:00.38`	`spldart`	`prolly try that first :)`
`16:01.04`	`spldart`	`what's a good irc client to grab for linux?`
`16:01.10`	`Tupone`	`xchat :)`
`16:01.18`	`spldart`	`kew`
`16:01.19`	`Tupone`	`but you start a flame war`
`16:01.27`	`spldart`	`haha`
`16:01.53`	`spldart`	`I did that on accident in #debian last I was in there :(`
`16:02.01`	`JeffM2501`	`xchat is the standard graphical on`
`16:02.02`	`JeffM2501`	`one`
`16:02.34`	`Tupone`	`brlcad: hi`
`16:02.46`	`spldart`	`I want something minimally graphic... running flux on x11 6.8`
`16:03.02`	`spldart`	`for as long as unstable lasts :eek:`
`16:03.05`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03bthansen 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/ChangeLog: Update Changelog for new logDetail plugin`
`16:03.10`	`soarkalm`	`spldart,irssi?`
`16:03.37`	`JeffM2501`	`that's a command line one is it not?`
`16:03.44`	`soarkalm`	`yes`
`16:03.52`	`JeffM2501`	`I do not think he would like it`
`16:03.54`	`soarkalm`	`he said minimally graphic :)`
`16:04.04`	`Tupone`	`hmm, xchat is designed for interfacing freenode easily, dunno the other. So /ns is for talking to nick server, /ms to talk to memo server`
`16:04.08`	`soarkalm`	`JeffM2501, you are probably right`
`16:04.19`	`spldart`	`I'm really liking flux after jeffM first suggested it`
`16:04.23`	`JeffM2501`	`xchat is simple`
`16:04.27`	`spldart`	`it's so minimal yet configurable`
`16:05.02`	`soarkalm`	`JeffM2501, agreed`
`16:05.05`	`spldart`	`wanted irc that's similar`
`16:06.44`	`Tupone`	`someone like the chatzilla ... dunno if heavy`
`16:07.45`	`soarkalm`	`Since this conversation has lagged...any details on the DOS about 12 hours ago?`
`16:08.09`	`ToughShooter`	`Tupone: I have observed people called Mozilla an OS :)`
`16:08.20`	`Tupone`	`lol`
`16:08.44`	`Tupone`	`soarkalm: some fixes are in CVS`
`16:09.35`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: unused variable should go to /dev/null`
`16:09.47`	`soarkalm`	`Tupone, ok`
`16:10.49`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/package/win32/ (Makefile.am nsis/Makefile.am): Fixing make dist`
`16:11.48`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/Dev-C++/Makefile.am: Fixing make dist`
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`16:18.45`	`stumpgrinder`	`Pimpi: ping`
`16:22.04`	`Thumper_`	`brlcad: okay one problem with your fix... /? no longer works`
`16:22.15`	`Thumper_`	`since it's not a command anymore :)`
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`16:30.07`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03atupone * 10bzflag/DEVINFO: Specify options to add to cvs2pl`
`16:34.45`	`spldart`	`Hrm... "X11org is the future" Guess I'll hafta make this transition work :eek:`
`16:36.56`	`Pimpi`	`stumpgrinder: pong`
`16:46.26`	`stumpgrinder`	`pimpi :) may i join for a test?`
`16:46.31`	`Pimpi`	`go in`
`16:47.11`	`Pimpi`	`bad karma`
`16:47.18`	`stumpgrinder`	`down?`
`16:47.36`	`Pimpi`	`yep`
`16:47.42`	`stumpgrinder`	`sry... :(`
`16:47.54`	`Pimpi`	`really no idea why it happens`
`16:48.09`	`Pimpi`	`np, i allowed you to rash it ;)`
`16:48.14`	`Pimpi`	`crash`
`16:48.27`	`stumpgrinder`	`me neither. did you banned me as accident?`
`16:48.41`	`Pimpi`	`i banned you?`
`16:48.59`	`Pimpi`	`not me at least`
`16:49.08`	`Pimpi`	`maybe somebody else`
`16:49.19`	`stumpgrinder`	`and if, it should not crash..`
`16:50.13`	`Pimpi`	`can still crash, just depends when the crash happens`
`16:54.53`	`stumpgrinder`	`i think the best way is for me to do not play there anymore (although i like the map). but dont make it as a problem for you.`
`16:55.48`	`Pimpi`	`i'd really like to help you, i just have not enough time to build up a full featured test scenario...`
`16:57.46`	`stumpgrinder`	`no stress. i can live without it. but just till a viper.league will be created ;)`
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`17:57.11`	`blizzo1`	`Is there a fix to prevent the god-mode client yet?`
`17:57.35`	`blast007`	`nope`
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`18:42.42`	`Teppic_`	`Hello?`
`18:45.26`	`Teppic_`	`Hello?`
`18:49.33`	`*** join/#bzflag bdotson (i=brian@pdpc/supporter/student/bdotson)`
`18:51.52`	`blast007`	`Teppic_: yes?`
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`19:09.12`	`*** part/#bzflag Allied (n=Allied@69.158.102.189)`
`19:22.00`	`Teppic_`	`Hello?`
`19:23.35`	`blast007`	`...`
`19:24.04`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03bthansen 07v2_0branch * 10bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: Fix /? command so it works again`
`19:24.35`	`Teppic_`	`Sry miles away, anyone know how to glob characters in the badwords file?`
`19:30.47`	`Teppic_`	`I'll take that as a no then.....`
`19:34.31`	`blast007`	`not really sure what you mean by 'glob characters'`
`19:36.37`	`*** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B03BD4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`19:37.08`	`Teppic_`	`Wildcard`
`19:38.33`	`blast007`	`have an example of what you are trying to do with a wildcard?`
`19:41.48`	`tsowell`	`like "f??k"?`
`19:42.36`	`blast007`	`well, yes`
`19:42.58`	`blast007`	`I'm wanting to know what already isn't taken care of`
`19:43.48`	`blast007`	`The top lists some of the ways it will automatically match things: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/bzflag/bzflag/misc/multilingualSwearList.txt?view=markup`
`19:44.46`	`blast007`	`even matches l33t :)`
`19:51.12`	`Teppic_`	`Yeah, but only words with accepted pre/suffixes are matched, I want the eqivalent, excude mt language, of ass`
`19:51.37`	`tsowell`	`what about bass?`
`19:51.57`	`Teppic_`	`That isn't the specific word I'm trying to match, just an example`
`19:52.15`	`*** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@host11-210.pool8254.interbusiness.it)`
`19:52.29`	`Teppic_`	`It's to stop variations by addition of unwanted callsigns`
`19:54.32`	`*** part/#bzflag Teppic_ (n=Teppic@cpc2-cbly2-5-0-cust83.glfd.cable.ntl.com)`
`19:54.32`	`blast007`	`ah`
`20:06.23`	`*** join/#bzflag Teppic_ (n=Teppic@cpc2-cbly2-5-0-cust83.glfd.cable.ntl.com)`
`20:21.31`	`*** join/#bzflag BeerPerson (i=karsten@sourcemage/wizard/pdpc.sustaining.BearPerson)`
`20:21.57`	`synthemesc`	`OH EM EFF GEE`
`20:21.59`	`synthemesc`	`http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0714051dui1.html`
`20:22.01`	`synthemesc`	`hahaha`
`20:24.22`	`*** join/#bzflag _Manu_ (n=jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`20:36.58`	`*** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker)`
`20:37.01`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
`20:46.44`	`*** join/#bzflag Dhraakellian (n=ntryon@cpe-66-67-53-29.rochester.res.rr.com)`
`20:47.39`	`Dhraakellian`	`trying to connect to the hide-n-seek hills map, I'm getting "Incompatible server version BZFS0032"`
`20:49.59`	`ruskie`	`Dhraakellian, what client are you using?`
`20:50.32`	`*** join/#bzflag jujibo (n=jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.staticIP.rima-tde.net)`
`20:52.48`	`Dhraakellian`	`2.0.4`
`20:52.59`	`Dhraakellian`	`archlinux packages`
`20:53.02`	`blast007`	`you shouldn't be seeing that server on the list then`
`20:53.12`	`Dhraakellian`	`hmm?`
`20:53.13`	`blast007`	`that's a 2.1.x server`
`20:53.16`	`Dhraakellian`	`ah`
`20:53.50`	`blast007`	`2.0.x protocol is BZFS0026`
`20:54.00`	`Dhraakellian`	`ah`
`21:02.31`	`spldart`	`2.1.x server?`
`21:02.50`	`spldart`	`what protocol is that?`
`21:05.05`	`blast007`	`there have been several, but the newest is 0033`
`21:05.25`	`spldart`	`how recent is 0033?`
`21:05.37`	`blast007`	`that's the current`
`21:05.48`	`blast007`	`current HEAD, anyway`
`21:05.52`	`spldart`	`I mean when was it released`
`21:06.00`	`BearPerson`	`released?`
`21:06.02`	`spldart`	`and what version on up client do you need?`
`21:06.09`	`BearPerson`	`CVS`
`21:06.20`	`spldart`	`ah`
`21:06.25`	`blast007`	`it won't be released as 2.1`
`21:06.26`	`spldart`	`off to cvs I go`
`21:06.38`	`BearPerson`	`I think only 3 servers are on 2.1`
`21:07.20`	`spldart`	`So I can be number 4 tonight :)`
`21:07.54`	`spldart`	`I was going to compile anew last night but got sucked into a unstable test deb install on another machine`
`21:07.55`	`blast007`	`nobody plays 2.1 :)`
`21:08.00`	`spldart`	`No?`
`21:08.06`	`blast007`	`it's not a released version`
`21:08.16`	`spldart`	`so only dev's play`
`21:08.20`	`A_Meteorite`	`hey all`
`21:08.20`	`blast007`	`it's the development version`
`21:08.22`	`A_Meteorite`	`:)`
`21:08.31`	`blast007`	`just like 1.9 was, which became 1.10`
`21:08.44`	`blast007`	`hi A_Meteorite`
`21:09.01`	`spldart`	`so if I cvs and compile a newest bzflag for my server I will still be 0026 compliant?`
`21:09.15`	`A_Meteorite`	`no`
`21:09.24`	`BearPerson`	`depends on what branch you pull off CVS`
`21:09.38`	`A_Meteorite`	`Use -r v2_0branch while checking out`
`21:09.43`	`A_Meteorite`	`it will get you 2.0.x`
`21:09.56`	`A_Meteorite`	`if you WANT 2.1 just take that out and you get 2.1 ;)`
`21:10.10`	`spldart`	`ah`
`21:10.22`	`blast007`	`yeah, instead of 'co bzflag' at the end of the command, do 'co -r v2_0branch bzflag'`
`21:10.28`	`A_Meteorite`	`right`
`21:10.37`	`spldart`	`Or I can compile one with and one without and run two instances of bzfs on my server :)`
`21:10.51`	`A_Meteorite`	`hehe`
`21:11.43`	`spldart`	`Can I run multiple app's without a x window system on linux?`
`21:11.54`	`blast007`	`use screen`
`21:11.54`	`A_Meteorite`	`umm`
`21:11.55`	`spldart`	`I mean... without some auto daemon thing`
`21:11.57`	`spldart`	`ah`
`21:13.30`	`spldart`	`WOAH SWEET I didn't know I could do that :-D`
`21:14.15`	`Teppic_`	`You can write a startup script for it so it starts ion boot.`
`21:14.21`	`Teppic_`	`*on`
`21:14.29`	`A_Meteorite`	`Teppic: Do you do lots of Bash scripting?`
`21:14.31`	`spldart`	`I knew I could do that :)`
`21:14.39`	`Teppic_`	`S** loads, why?`
`21:14.50`	`A_Meteorite`	`because I want to make one server per Terminal window on my Mac`
`21:14.51`	`tsowell`	`Teppic_: you can start stuff in the background..`
`21:14.54`	`A_Meteorite`	`right now it's three`
`21:15.02`	`A_Meteorite`	`bzfs, meteorite_logger, meterite_admin`
`21:15.03`	`tsowell`	`Teppic_: or one them on different real ttys`
`21:15.15`	`A_Meteorite`	`I looked into screen but got utterly confused`
`21:15.41`	`blast007`	`A_Meteorite: screen would do what you want though ;)`
`21:15.45`	`A_Meteorite`	`problem is I can't get bzfs to release control to bzadmin`
`21:16.11`	`Teppic_`	`tso well, either, in background or in ttys.`
`21:16.20`	`A_Meteorite`	`can you make a script for me? :)`
`21:16.24`	`Teppic_`	`A_M release?`
`21:16.25`	`A_Meteorite`	`I use Bash - Mac OS X`
`21:16.28`	`Dhraakellian`	`screen++`
`21:16.28`	`tsowell`	`Teppic_: yeah I meant to tell that to spldart`
`21:16.46`	`A_Meteorite`	`huh?`
`21:16.51`	`A_Meteorite`	`sure`
`21:16.56`	`Dhraakellian`	`n/me wonders why his sound starts to lag behind actual events in the game`
`21:17.16`	`A_Meteorite`	`I also want to be able to add more servers easily`
`21:17.18`	`Teppic_`	`oh, erm use bzfs -ui stdout >/dev/null`
`21:17.21`	`blast007`	`~n`
`21:17.22`	`ibot`	`methinks n is the disease bzflag players get when they play too much`
`21:17.24`	`A_Meteorite`	`aha!!`
`21:17.47`	`A_Meteorite`	`umm`
`21:17.55`	`A_Meteorite`	`tells me -ui is not an aregument`
`21:18.05`	`A_Meteorite`	`I think that's bzadmin only`
`21:18.20`	`Teppic_`	`Sry,. thats for bzadmin, just bzfs >/dev/null & bzadmin`
`21:18.25`	`A_Meteorite`	`oh`
`21:18.30`	`A_Meteorite`	`hold on, I'll try that`
`21:18.54`	`Dhraakellian`	`heh`
`21:19.12`	`Teppic_`	`Dhraakellian, what os?`
`21:19.17`	`Dhraakellian`	`and it seems kind of rude to quit and rejoin every so often when my score is negative`
`21:19.25`	`Dhraakellian`	`linux`
`21:19.27`	`Dhraakellian`	`arch`
`21:19.50`	`Teppic_`	`Dhraakellian , soude system (alsa oss sdl )`
`21:19.50`	`Dhraakellian`	`and it's not just when I have amaroK playing music in the background`
`21:20.14`	`Dhraakellian`	`alsa, I assume, since I am able to have sound from multiple sources`
`21:20.16`	`*** join/#bzflag captrespect (n=captresp@dsl017-059-206.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`21:20.44`	`Teppic_`	`Read gentoo alsa how to and setup an .asoundrc file to change the rate of your dmix pcm.`
`21:21.01`	`Dhraakellian`	`at startup, bzflag says Audio driver : esd`
`21:21.07`	`A_Meteorite`	`weird...`
`21:21.10`	`spldart`	`is bzfs specific to the build machine or can I build bz on say a fast dually machine then use the new bzfs on a slow server machine?`
`21:21.11`	`A_Meteorite`	`it won't work, Teppic`
`21:21.17`	`Dhraakellian`	`Teppic_: it starts out in sync`
`21:21.43`	`*** part/#bzflag captrespect (n=captresp@dsl017-059-206.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`21:21.43`	`Teppic_`	`A_Meteorite whats it say, Dhraakellian thats why I said it.`
`21:22.09`	`orchid`	`A_Meteorite: http://bzgirl.bakadigital.com/conf/screenrc nice simple .screenrc to get you started`
`21:22.16`	`A_Meteorite`	`I PMed you, Teppic`
`21:22.19`	`A_Meteorite`	`in IRC`
`21:22.58`	`A_Meteorite`	`orchird: can you make multiple thing startup at once, without it being a "session"?`
`21:23.13`	`brlcad`	`Thumper_: interesting, didn't know there was a /?`
`21:23.13`	`A_Meteorite`	`I don't want bzfs to startup everytime I use screen`
`21:23.36`	`brlcad`	`are there any other /* commands that aren't /[[:alpha:]] ?`
`21:23.37`	`A_Meteorite`	`Teppic_: Did you get my private IRC IM?`
`21:25.45`	`Teppic_`	`A_Meteorite yep ,try the new line`
`21:25.54`	`Teppic_`	`Or I can write a script for it.`
`21:25.58`	`A_Meteorite`	`that would help`
`21:26.15`	`Teppic_`	`hang on then 2 mins`
`21:26.21`	`A_Meteorite`	`btw, I think my IRC is broken, I didn't get your reply`
`21:26.23`	`A_Meteorite`	`ok, thanks`
`21:26.31`	`orchid`	`A_Meteorite: what?`
`21:26.38`	`A_Meteorite`	`just need it to able to use multiple servers :)`
`21:26.52`	`A_Meteorite`	`orchird: If I click on someones name I can privately talk to them`
`21:28.06`	`orchid`	`no I meant about "sessions" you mentioned earlier`
`21:28.23`	`A_Meteorite`	`can I make multiple things launch`
`21:28.30`	`A_Meteorite`	`based off the command-line`
`21:28.32`	`A_Meteorite`	`and not some config file`
`21:29.06`	`orchid`	`yes, it's a shell, you can do inside screen anything you can do in your shell`
`21:29.18`	`A_Meteorite`	`no`
`21:29.31`	`A_Meteorite`	`when you do screen [-arguments here]`
`21:29.41`	`A_Meteorite`	`can you do everything you want to run from the screen command?`
`21:29.56`	`brlcad`	`except press ctrl-a and expect it to go to beginning of line :)`
`21:30.19`	`Teppic_`	`xxx.teppic.homelinux.net/A_M-server.sh`
`21:30.26`	`A_Meteorite`	`ok`
`21:30.48`	`Teppic_`	`oops, try again.`
`21:31.06`	`A_Meteorite`	`k`
`21:31.19`	`brlcad`	`~ping xxx.teppic.homelinux.net`
`21:31.20`	`ibot`	`pong xxx.teppic.homelinux.net`
`21:31.28`	`brlcad`	`hmm`
`21:31.33`	`orchid`	`well brlcad as you know everyone who uses emacs changes screens defauld command char to something resonable :)`
`21:32.34`	`A_Meteorite`	`yay!! it worked`
`21:32.39`	`A_Meteorite`	`thanks a bunch, Teppic`
`21:34.01`	`Teppic_`	`OMG, no 20 revisions later it kinda worked?`
`21:34.16`	`A_Meteorite`	`huh?`
`21:34.42`	`Teppic_`	`j/k, I'm treally bad at making syntax typos.`
`21:34.47`	`A_Meteorite`	`heh`
`21:37.40`	`Dhraakellian`	`hmm`
`21:39.21`	`Teppic_`	`WTF is screen?`
`21:39.27`	`Dhraakellian`	`it probably goes back to when I was on gentoo and had long compiles`
`21:39.46`	`Dhraakellian`	`http://www.gnu.org/software/screen/`
`21:40.09`	`Teppic_`	`emerge -a screen ;-)`
`21:40.11`	`A_Meteorite`	`bbl`
`21:40.16`	`A_Meteorite`	`imposter of me on now`
`21:40.50`	`Dhraakellian`	`emerge -avt screen`
`21:40.50`	`A_Meteorite`	`a cheater!!`
`21:40.50`	`A_Meteorite`	`GAH!`
`21:40.50`	`Dhraakellian`	`!;)`
`21:40.50`	`A_Meteorite`	`bbl all`
`21:40.51`	`Teppic_`	`no v, v sucks`
`21:41.04`	`Dhraakellian`	`I still miss it from time to time`
`21:41.33`	`orchid`	`Dhraakellian: look at the help-screen mailing list archives for the pageup\|down thingy`
`21:41.33`	`Dhraakellian`	`but arch should probably be just as good, assuming that I actually take the time to figure out avs one of these days`
`21:41.37`	`Teppic_`	`I like it 'cos it works.`
`21:42.09`	`Dhraakellian`	`orchid: well, I do have it working outside of screen, and I think I had it working inside screen briefly`
`21:42.20`	`Dhraakellian`	`/etc/inputrc stuff`
`21:43.15`	`Teppic_`	`They havn't worked out Xchat yet.`
`21:44.55`	`A_Meteorite`	`watch out someone under my name is impostering me`
`21:45.08`	`A_Meteorite`	`brb`
`21:45.16`	`Teppic_`	`Are you not registered`
`21:45.28`	`A_Meteorite`	`I am`
`21:45.52`	`Teppic_`	`they play un identified?`
`21:45.55`	`A_Meteorite`	`nope`
`21:46.02`	`A_Meteorite`	`he went under "A Metorite"`
`21:46.04`	`A_Meteorite`	`without the e`
`21:46.11`	`Teppic_`	`Sucks`
`21:46.12`	`A_Meteorite`	`and then "A Meteoritee"`
`21:46.19`	`A_Meteorite`	`it's that cheater`
`21:46.26`	`Teppic_`	`OO, got ip`
`21:46.27`	`A_Meteorite`	`I banned him this morning at 4 servers`
`21:46.35`	`A_Meteorite`	`nope, no admin present`
`21:46.45`	`A_Meteorite`	`we /poll banned but the server crashed for some reason`
`21:46.47`	`A_Meteorite`	`it was 2.0.2`
`21:46.58`	`Teppic_`	`I have a goo mind to go in there god mode wings cheat and piss him off.`
`21:47.05`	`A_Meteorite`	`heh`
`21:47.20`	`Teppic_`	`good*`
`21:47.32`	`Teppic_`	`I have a plan, we all use god mode, they get bored.`
`21:47.34`	`A_Meteorite`	`I'm watching him, apparently he's not using "A Meteorite" because it would be obvious with a - by his name`
`21:47.48`	`Teppic_`	`Where is he`
`21:47.58`	`A_Meteorite`	`I don't know I made him mad`
`21:48.05`	`A_Meteorite`	`I meant watching as in the playerlist`
`21:48.14`	`Teppic_`	`I soo want to dos there effing blog.`
`21:48.21`	`A_Meteorite`	`me too`
`21:48.30`	`A_Meteorite`	`but I don't want no FBI on me ;)`
`21:48.35`	`A_Meteorite`	`I bet he made a post on me`
`21:48.40`	`A_Meteorite`	`or I'm in his sidebar`
`21:48.55`	`A_Meteorite`	`with a very descriptive name by myself`
`21:49.25`	`A_Meteorite`	`nope, not yet`
`21:49.35`	`Teppic_`	`I stepped up security on my server`
`21:49.56`	`Teppic_`	`Every hour anyone in the banlist gets upped to the firewall config.`
`21:50.12`	`A_Meteorite`	`hehe!!`
`21:50.15`	`A_Meteorite`	`that's awesome`
`21:50.24`	`A_Meteorite`	`gone for good`
`21:50.50`	`Teppic_`	`Never underestimate the power of *BASH*`
`21:51.06`	`A_Meteorite`	`I'm in the middle of merging accounts because my server acct. has become alomost my main account`
`21:51.16`	`A_Meteorite`	`and the prefs is getting confusing between the two`
`21:51.46`	`A_Meteorite`	`but I'm worried about someone hacking bzfs and getting into my admin account`
`21:51.54`	`A_Meteorite`	`(personal files and all)`
`21:52.14`	`Teppic_`	`Ahh, user accounts?`
`21:52.18`	`A_Meteorite`	`yes, Mac OS X`
`21:52.21`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=jeffm@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`21:52.21`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`21:52.30`	`A_Meteorite`	`but all the different stuff in each makes it hard to do anything`
`21:52.35`	`A_Meteorite`	`and two accts. at once eat memory`
`21:53.22`	`Teppic_`	`just su into the limited acces one.`
`21:53.38`	`A_Meteorite`	`oh...`
`21:53.46`	`A_Meteorite`	`what about a chroot?`
`21:53.55`	`A_Meteorite`	`:)`
`21:54.04`	`A_Meteorite`	`or, even better`
`21:54.09`	`Teppic_`	`chroot is safer, but takes time to setup`
`21:54.12`	`A_Meteorite`	`yeah`
`21:54.20`	`A_Meteorite`	`I could mod your script to su`
`21:54.25`	`A_Meteorite`	`and just enter password`
`21:54.48`	`Teppic_`	`just su serveracctname -c A_M-server.sh`
`21:54.56`	`A_Meteorite`	`ahh`
`21:55.10`	`Teppic_`	`su -c runs a command from the su sccount`
`21:55.17`	`Teppic_`	`so use su -c to run the script`
`21:55.23`	`A_Meteorite`	`ok`
`21:55.49`	`Teppic_`	`make sure you put the name in, or it'll run as root, kinda the oposite really.`
`21:55.50`	`A_Meteorite`	`lol`
`21:56.50`	`*** part/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=jeffm@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`21:57.44`	`A_Meteorite`	`imposter again`
`21:57.46`	`A_Meteorite`	`bbl, got to ban him`
`22:08.16`	`A_Meteorite`	`GAH`
`22:08.19`	`Dhraakellian`	`okay, regarding my screen thing, I did "su -" and then "screen" instead of 'su - -c "screen"'`
`22:08.21`	`A_Meteorite`	`he's an idior`
`22:13.09`	`brlcad`	`A_Meteorite: and you're falling exactly into what he wants, just ignore em and he'll get bored and go away`
`22:13.28`	`A_Meteorite`	`no`
`22:13.31`	`brlcad`	`a jail is better than a chroot`
`22:13.36`	`A_Meteorite`	`he's done a lot to Win Xp`
`22:13.44`	`A_Meteorite`	`racked up over 1000 pts on his name`
`22:13.51`	`A_Meteorite`	`we're /poll banning him too`
`22:14.19`	`A_Meteorite`	`I doubt he's just going to go awway`
`22:14.25`	`A_Meteorite`	`I've been banning him a lot`
`22:14.41`	`brlcad`	`so he racked up points under a similar yet different name`
`22:14.44`	`brlcad`	`big deal :)`
`22:14.57`	`brlcad`	`life will go on, I promise`
`22:14.58`	`A_Meteorite`	`it's one letter off`
`22:15.00`	`brlcad`	`unless I get my way`
`22:15.09`	`A_Meteorite`	`people will think he's me`
`22:15.13`	`A_Meteorite`	`vice versa`
`22:15.25`	`A_Meteorite`	`...`
`22:15.27`	`A_Meteroite`	`yeah, they might`
`22:15.38`	`A_Meteorite`	`right`
`22:15.39`	`A_Meteroite`	`and they might not`
`22:15.55`	`A_Meteroite`	`expecially if they're not an idiot and notice the identity flags`
`22:16.43`	`A_Meteorite`	`Either that I ban him more and he gives up? ;)`
`22:16.59`	`A_Meteroite`	`my nick is a pretty common word yet unique to me, i still dont' get all busted up and protective of the slight variants`
`22:17.11`	`A_Meteorite`	`he's cheating under it`
`22:17.17`	`A_Meteroite`	`or you just encourange and entice him to keep doing it`
`22:17.34`	`A_Meteroite`	`he's looking for attention, not scoreboard points`
`22:17.41`	`A_Meteroite`	`and you're giving him exactly that`
`22:17.51`	`A_Meteorite`	`hmmm`
`22:18.00`	`A_Meteorite`	`what if I use my secret nick? :)`
`22:18.04`	`A_Meteorite`	`and ban him then`
`22:18.06`	`A_Meteorite`	`>:)`
`22:18.13`	`A_Meteroite`	`shrug`
`22:18.22`	`A_Meteroite`	`the fact that it even bothers you is the issue :)`
`22:18.22`	`A_Meteorite`	`why, shrug`
`22:18.40`	`A_Meteorite`	`I mean.. he doesn't know what the secret nick is`
`22:19.19`	`SilverFox`	`Anyone have trouble compiling bzfscron? http://pastebin.ca/35207`
`22:21.24`	`SilverFox`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:23.12`	`*** join/#bzflag sussi (i=ralf@217-68-182-127.cable.primacom.net)`
`22:27.10`	`SilverFox`	`does this have something to do with // this should always be the very FIRST header`
`22:27.10`	`SilverFox`	`in config.h ?`
`22:28.32`	`*** join/#bzflag Xell (n=Xell@p548753AC.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`22:29.52`	`trepan`	`SilverFox: "config.h: No such file or directory", look suspicious to you?`
`22:30.19`	`trepan`	`you do a ./configure for the sources?`
`22:31.52`	`SilverFox`	`there is no configure script for bzfscron.`
`22:32.17`	`SilverFox`	`is the plugin compiled as part of the bzflag compile, or seperately?`
`22:36.06`	`*** join/#bzflag triclops (n=triclops@203-166-252-226.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`22:37.44`	`conanhome`	`~dub`
`22:37.45`	`Teppic_`	`Stick the sources in a subfolder of the plugin dir, then run make in there.`
`22:37.59`	`conanhome`	`~dub.bzflag.org`
`22:38.49`	`*** part/#bzflag Dhraakellian (n=ntryon@cpe-66-67-53-29.rochester.res.rr.com)`
`22:39.05`	`SilverFox`	`Teppic_, that's exactly what I did.`
`22:39.40`	`SilverFox`	`I'm getting a new error since I did a make clean on the bzflag source though. I updated the pastebin.`
`22:39.49`	`SilverFox`	`(in the comment at the bottom)`
`22:41.32`	`Teppic_`	`oh ;(`
`22:43.35`	`SilverFox`	`tell me about it. ;)`
`22:46.24`	`Teppic_`	`Can't you rerun ./configure for the whole source tree?`
`22:46.42`	`Thumper_`	`brlcad: I don't know of any other non-alpha commands (other than /?) but I haven't gone to look them all up either...`
`22:46.58`	`SilverFox`	`Teppic_, I've done that too.`
`22:46.59`	`Thumper_`	`the broken /? also broke the serve side of /cmds in the bzflag client`
`22:47.08`	`Thumper_`	`server*`
`22:47.17`	`SilverFox`	`do I need to edit the Makefile.am in ./plugins/?`
`22:49.08`	`Teppic_`	`I'd guess you have to make from scratch.`
`22:52.01`	`trepan`	`edit configure.ac to include to subdir (find AC_CONFIG_FILES)`
`22:52.30`	`trepan`	`you may also need --enable-shared or some such flag`
`22:57.55`	`brlcad`	`Thumper_: hmm? what do you mean by broke the server-side /cmds?`
`23:01.53`	`SilverFox`	`trepan, now after changing configure.ac, I get config.status: error: cannot find input file: plugins/bzfscron/Makefile.in when doing a /configure --enable-shared`
`23:03.02`	`brlcad`	`SilverFox: you have to run ./autogen.sh again`
`23:03.29`	`brlcad`	`and you do need to edit the plugins/Makefile.am`
`23:03.37`	`brlcad`	`and add --enable-shared`
`23:05.06`	`SilverFox`	`what do you mean "add --enable-shared" ? Where?`
`23:05.21`	`brlcad`	`when you run configuree`
`23:05.28`	`brlcad`	`./configure --enable-shared`
`23:05.28`	`SilverFox`	`brlcad, I added bzfscron to plugins/Makefile.am too (although I think that's only necessary when doing a make from plugins/`
`23:05.29`	`SilverFox`	`)`
`23:05.41`	`SilverFox`	`ah, yes, I did that. That resulted in the error mentioned above.`
`23:05.50`	`SilverFox`	`no Makefile.in file in plugins/bzfscron/`
`23:06.01`	`brlcad`	`the error above is because you need to run autogen.sh`
`23:06.45`	`brlcad`	`you are correct in that you only need to add it to the subdirs in plugins/Makefile.am if you want recursive make to work`
`23:07.32`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@68.49.10.243)`
`23:08.45`	`SilverFox`	`brlcad, should I run make in plugins/bzfscron or in . once I do this?`
`23:08.49`	`SilverFox`	`err...`
`23:09.14`	`SilverFox`	`I did ./autogen.sh and then ./configure --enable-shared, which resulted in the same configure error.`
`23:13.24`	`*** join/#bzflag spldart (n=james@cpe-67-10-221-4.houston.res.rr.com)`
`23:15.40`	`Thumper_`	`brlcad: /cmds is a bzflag client command...`
`23:15.47`	`Thumper_`	`that lists both client and server side / commands`
`23:15.58`	`Thumper_`	`and it must use /? to get the server command list`
`23:16.23`	`Thumper_`	`since that stopped working`
`23:16.29`	`Thumper_`	`I mostly just use /? directly from bzadmin`
`23:19.20`	`brlcad`	`ahh, so a command that invoked the /? command`
`23:19.29`	`brlcad`	`got it`
`23:19.37`	`brlcad`	`so fixing /? so fix the other`
`23:25.53`	`Thumper_`	`it seems to be working fine now...`
`23:26.21`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`23:26.31`	`brlcad`	`i haven't checked my mail, someone might have fixed it`
`23:26.41`	`Thumper_`	`that would be me :)`
`23:27.15`	`brlcad`	`ahh, i didn't read that you fixed it too`
`23:27.59`	`Thumper_`	`sorry... I (bthansen) just committed the fix`
`23:28.20`	`Thumper_`	`maybe I should change my nick... to match my sourceforge id if that's less confusing`
`23:29.56`	`brlcad`	`nah, I just didnt' see the cia notification either`
`23:30.03`	`brlcad`	`nah, I just didnt' see the cia notification either`
`23:31.06`	`Thumper_`	`company coming... g2g`
`23:34.34`	`SilverFox`	`I'm not gettng anywhere, so I've posted on bzbb: http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=64026#64026`
`23:37.06`	`spldart`	`ok.. just got gcc-4.0 libcurl3-dev libtool`
`23:37.30`	`spldart`	`can anyone help me do a test build of the unreleased bzfs?`
`23:39.08`	`brlcad`	`SilverFox: well, you got the makefile right`
`23:39.17`	`brlcad`	`now it's a bonefide compiler error`
`23:40.21`	`spldart`	`and it's a dual processor environment ....`
`23:42.04`	`brlcad`	`spldart: ./autogen.sh && ./configure --enable-shared && make -j2`
`23:42.50`	`spldart`	`I have to grab stuff off cvs first right?`
`23:43.51`	`trepan`	`SilverFox: bz_setPlayerAdmin() was removed between bzfsAPI.h revs. 1.89 and 1.90`
`23:44.04`	`spldart`	`I just typed in cvs -d:pserver_anonymous@cvs.soureforge.net:/cvsroot/bzflag login and it came back with cvs: command not found`
`23:45.20`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/include/bzfsAPI.h: missing declaration of bz_setPlayerAdmin()`
`23:46.18`	`brlcad`	`SilverFox: add this to include/bzfsAPI.h:`
`23:46.20`	`brlcad`	`BZF_API bool bz_setPlayerAdmin ( int playerID, int wins );`
`23:46.52`	`trepan`	`brlcad: bz_setPlayerAdmin() isn't defined anywhere in v2_0branch`
`23:47.10`	`SilverFox`	`spldart, what distro?`
`23:47.47`	`brlcad`	`it was still missing from the header, even on cvs head`
`23:48.20`	`trepan`	`it was removed, if it won't link, then it need not be in the header ;)`
`23:48.36`	`brlcad`	`the function exists in src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx`
`23:48.46`	`brlcad`	`(again, on head)`
`23:48.58`	`*** join/#bzflag Allied (n=Allied@69.158.102.189)`
`23:49.13`	`trepan`	`ah, looks like it was replaced with bz_setPlayerOperator() in the branch`
`23:49.29`	`Allied`	`does anyone know if in a group file, it's possible to do things like this:`
`23:49.29`	`Allied`	`LOCAL.ADMIN`
`23:49.29`	`Allied`	`Kick Ban`
`23:49.29`	`Allied`	`and so on`
`23:49.59`	`SilverFox`	`brlcad, will a new cvs update fix my compile problem?`
`23:50.13`	`brlcad`	`SilverFox: are you compiling against 2.0 or 2.1?`
`23:50.38`	`brlcad`	`cvs status README`
`23:51.01`	`spldart`	`ok... got logged on cvs`
`23:51.46`	`spldart`	`cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.soureforge.net:/cvsroot/bzflag co -P bzflag ?`
`23:51.47`	`trepan`	`brlcad: odd, I don't see it in bzfsAPI.cxx in HEAD either`
`23:52.00`	`spldart`	`Or do I change that if I want the unreleased dev package?`
`23:52.19`	`trepan`	`brlcad: what rev of bzfsAPI.cxx are you looking at?`
`23:52.43`	`SilverFox`	`spldart, cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/bzflag checkout`
`23:52.52`	`brlcad`	`trepan: er, neither do I now`
`23:52.56`	`brlcad`	`eyes are playing tricks on me`
`23:52.59`	`SilverFox`	`spldart, if you want the 2.0, then: cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/bzflag checkout -r v2_0branch bzflag`
`23:53.15`	`SilverFox`	`spldart, cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sf.net:/cvsroot/bzflag checkout bzflag`
`23:53.18`	`SilverFox`	`forgot the bzflag.`
`23:53.33`	`spldart`	`I wanted to try the newest unreleased ver`
`23:53.49`	`CIA-9`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/include/bzfsAPI.h: bad declaration, no donut for you`
`23:53.59`	`brlcad`	`SilverFox: so scratch that`
`23:54.01`	`SilverFox`	`then remove the -r v2_0branch portion.`
`23:54.24`	`brlcad`	`instead edit bzfscron.cpp and replace bz_setPlayerAdmin with bz_setPlayerOperator`
`23:54.40`	`spldart`	`sweet. that got my download going`
`23:54.52`	`SilverFox`	`k`
`23:54.57`	`spldart`	`sans -r v2_0branch bzflag`
`23:55.04`	`brlcad`	`curiously, jeff was going to add both admin and operator after than whole renaming ordeal`
`23:55.10`	`brlcad`	`apparently got sidetracked`
`23:56.04`	`SilverFox`	`brlcad, thank you much!`
`23:56.14`	`brlcad`	`don't thank me, thank the children`
`23:56.59`	`spldart`	`oops... might need automake and autoconf`
`23:57.37`	`brlcad`	`spldart: autogen.sh will tell you if you're missing anything`

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