| 00:00.03 | Gnurdux | whatever im away now |
| 00:03.27 | wegstar | Gnurdux: msdn- "Returns an iterator that addresses the location succeeding the last element in a list." |
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| 00:06.20 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 00:09.48 | Mr_Molez | anyone ever setup a chroot environment ? |
| 00:14.11 | trepan | mr. google has |
| 00:16.31 | Mr_Molez | yup |
| 00:19.06 | *** join/#bzflag EbErT (n=edwardhu@168.16.136.171) |
| 00:19.31 | EbErT | is the silvercat server down right now? |
| 00:19.51 | EbErT | i get "error connecting" just to that server, but it shows up on server list as 1st |
| 00:20.27 | Mr_Molez | ~bzfquery silvercat.bzflag.org |
| 00:21.00 | EbErT | hi molez |
| 00:21.10 | Mr_Molez | ~bzfquery ducati-style.bzflag.org |
| 00:21.11 | Mr_Molez | hey :) |
| 00:21.21 | Mr_Molez | looks like its down :P |
| 00:21.28 | EbErT | ya, thought so |
| 00:21.31 | Mr_Molez | ~bzfquery localhost |
| 00:21.32 | EbErT | thx |
| 00:25.45 | *** join/#bzflag Electric1lf (n=dbharris@69.158.79.94) |
| 00:30.59 | CBG | Try now, EbErT :) |
| 00:32.02 | EbErT | a minor flub i guess |
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| 00:55.59 | brlcad | JeffM2501: wednesday evening could work, sometime after you're home perhaps |
| 00:56.01 | brlcad | thereabouts |
| 01:16.31 | JeffM2501 | sounds good |
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| 01:36.11 | Gnurdux | protectVars.cpp:33: error: expected initializer before 'protector' |
| 01:36.15 | Gnurdux | what would that mean? |
| 01:36.33 | Gnurdux | that line is: |
| 01:36.34 | Gnurdux | Protector protector; |
| 01:36.45 | blast007 | what is Protector? |
| 01:36.56 | Gnurdux | a class |
| 01:37.02 | Gnurdux | class Protector : public bz_EventHandler |
| 01:37.58 | blast007 | it apparently can't see that class in the file you are use it in |
| 01:38.22 | Gnurdux | maybe its not terminated correctly or something |
| 01:38.23 | Gnurdux | its all one file |
| 01:39.32 | Gnurdux | damn it my DNS is down |
| 01:39.49 | Gnurdux | ~dns www.google.com |
| 01:40.09 | Gnurdux | now its up |
| 01:40.34 | Gnurdux | http://pastebin.ca/47931 |
| 01:41.37 | Gnurdux | blast007, where would i get that error |
| 01:42.24 | Gnurdux | i mean why |
| 01:42.49 | Gnurdux | aha |
| 01:42.57 | Gnurdux | i forgot the semicolon at the end of the class |
| 02:37.51 | wegstar | any admins/cops of tuxsux.hepcat.org? |
| 02:38.05 | wegstar | tk'er going wild there... |
| 02:38.18 | blast007 | tried a poll? |
| 02:38.31 | blast007 | or nvm ;) |
| 02:38.54 | wegstar | yep |
| 02:38.59 | wegstar | SAM I AM |
| 02:42.27 | wegstar | hehe.. funny, everyone decided to kill the t'ker, teammate or not, and brad2901 must have had a hard time determining who the t'ker was ;) |
| 02:42.50 | brad2901 | yeah, I was thinking Da Bon was the TKer |
| 02:44.23 | wegstar | :P |
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| 04:27.08 | BenUrban | *sigh* |
| 04:27.11 | BenUrban | sf is still down |
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| 06:25.12 | bz16 | lol |
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| 06:27.46 | a-delusion | I've got a candidate for global ban, if that is still accepted here |
| 06:30.26 | a-delusion | christopher, H. christian anderson, etc.. 68.7.107.207 god mode cheater. he's had the same IP for at least 3 days |
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| 15:06.41 | *** join/#bzflag en4rab (n=nospam@85-210-50-231.dsl.pipex.com) |
| 15:08.22 | en4rab | Does anyone know if TimRiker still comes on this channel? |
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| 15:09.48 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TyroneFHornigh] by ChanServ |
| 15:09.52 | menotume | yes, i know |
| 15:10.09 | menotume | ~seen TimRiker |
| 15:10.18 | ibot | timriker <n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker> was last seen on IRC in channel #classiccmp, 1d 8h 27s ago, saying: 'hi and bye. blue wizard needs sleep badly.'. |
| 15:11.07 | en4rab | thankyou |
| 15:11.11 | menotume | :) |
| 15:20.00 | brlcad | he's not been around much lately, at least not interactively -- but he does join |
| 15:22.00 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 15:22.00 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:24.48 | *** join/#bzflag amcnabb (n=amcnabb@128.187.140.37) |
| 15:25.03 | brlcad | speak and yea shall received |
| 15:27.01 | en4rab | aaah speak of the devil :) |
| 15:27.36 | en4rab | TimRiker i was hoping you would join, I came across some hardware i thought you might be interested in for your elinux site |
| 15:27.52 | *** part/#bzflag devster (i=dev@will.you.stop.watchin.me.uk) |
| 15:27.52 | *** join/#bzflag devster (i=dev@will.you.stop.watchin.me.uk) |
| 15:28.34 | en4rab | Its currently only available in the UK but i think a US company has bought the rights to sell rebadged hardware in the US |
| 15:29.54 | en4rab | http://www.earth.li/~noodles/hardware-e3.html << the amstrad E3 emailer, its a TI omap 5910 based device, 16M ram 32M flash and a very slow colour lcd screen |
| 15:31.35 | TimRiker | price? and #elinix is probably a better place for this conversation. |
| 15:32.21 | en4rab | ok I joined #elinux |
| 15:52.44 | Pimpinella | does anyone know when develpoer cvs will be available again? |
| 15:53.58 | orange | it's been down... what... 5 days? |
| 15:54.10 | orange | no news item on the home page, that I can see |
| 15:54.18 | Pimpinella | yeah, i recognized... |
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| 16:34.28 | *** join/#bzflag bz30 (n=3d1333e4@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:35.29 | bz30 | is it possible to see -- as an non admin user -- the ips of the other players? |
| 16:35.37 | Birdie | nope |
| 16:36.37 | bz30 | sothe only way to identify a client is the callsign, email... and the version for a user? |
| 16:36.59 | bz30 | are there more ways? |
| 16:37.16 | Chestal | sure, by playing style :-) |
| 16:37.25 | bz30 | :) |
| 16:37.44 | Chestal | bz30: if his global login is confirmed, that's the best you get |
| 16:38.25 | bz30 | i even thought of that usual shot freq in fight... |
| 16:38.27 | bz30 | or typical shots... |
| 16:38.31 | bz30 | sth like that... |
| 16:38.41 | bz30 | angle diff.. |
| 16:39.10 | orange | lag |
| 16:39.22 | bz30 | that can change.. |
| 16:39.35 | bz30 | (i thought of typical words too) |
| 16:39.39 | Birdie | the bitching of the player:) |
| 16:39.44 | bz30 | talk freq |
| 16:39.52 | bz30 | bitching? |
| 16:39.57 | bz30 | whats that? |
| 16:40.01 | Birdie | complaining, whining |
| 16:40.08 | Birdie | some people you recognize by that |
| 16:40.52 | bz30 | yeah |
| 16:41.07 | bz30 | i want to programm another version which can identify the player with good results... |
| 16:41.12 | bz30 | oh |
| 16:41.22 | bz30 | whoa im lagging... |
| 16:41.39 | bz30 | ? |
| 16:42.08 | bz30 | well.. th |
| 16:42.14 | bz30 | thx |
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| 17:19.59 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
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| 17:27.13 | brlcad | sf.net updated status |
| 17:27.25 | brlcad | still down, and looking like another day or two |
| 17:27.44 | brlcad | sounds like they're waiting on several dd's to complete |
| 17:27.52 | *** join/#bzflag jbauman (i=Johnq@128.237.231.74) |
| 17:27.58 | Tupone | dd ? |
| 17:28.14 | brlcad | the tool, dd |
| 17:28.19 | Tupone | ahh :) |
| 17:28.31 | JeffM2501 | wonder what broke |
| 17:28.58 | blast007 | the dust filter on a fan |
| 17:29.00 | brlcad | they're backing up data on the disks and it's "taking longer than anticipated".. sounds vaguely familiar to a couple inefficient dd's I've issued before |
| 17:29.25 | brlcad | for that same purpose |
| 17:29.43 | Tupone | short buffer? |
| 17:29.49 | brlcad | yeah |
| 17:30.00 | brlcad | or mismatch between the hardware buffer size |
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| 17:55.25 | CBG | TimRiker: just quick thanks for the cbg.bzflag.org subdomain. I'm very grateful. :) |
| 17:55.36 | Tupone | From the wiki: learner is in the process of adding a logging framework that will unify logging across all of the bzflag binaries. |
| 17:56.23 | CBG | Sounds like the april fools joke - for real. |
| 17:56.47 | Tupone | it was a very old sentences. Still working or parked :) |
| 17:57.03 | JeffM2501 | it's learner's own personal karma |
| 17:57.04 | JeffM2501 | ;) |
| 17:57.13 | CBG | TimRiker: or, what I mean to say is, thanks for the "host entry". ;) |
| 17:57.47 | Tupone | I think, if somebody want to collaborate, to use the wiki for the 2.1. no? |
| 17:58.12 | JeffM2501 | I'd use the wiki more if it was easyer to edit, and rememberd my username ;) |
| 17:58.54 | Tupone | wiki is easy. Me is just not very confortable with moin-moin, I prefer media-wiki |
| 17:59.04 | Tupone | but I guess is quite the same |
| 17:59.13 | JeffM2501 | I think we should use the froums |
| 17:59.21 | JeffM2501 | then we know who edits and posts what |
| 17:59.26 | Tupone | I prefer collaboration then flame |
| 17:59.41 | JeffM2501 | well everyone prefers that |
| 17:59.51 | JeffM2501 | but you can use a forum wiith out flams :) |
| 18:00.26 | Tupone | I wrote something in the forum, nobody added anythings :/ |
| 18:00.58 | Tupone | can I edit an old post in the forum? |
| 18:01.29 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:01.33 | JeffM2501 | you can edit any post you made |
| 18:01.44 | Tupone | and learner posts? |
| 18:01.52 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 18:01.57 | JeffM2501 | that is where the wiki is better |
| 18:02.02 | JeffM2501 | it can make a final document |
| 18:02.16 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B01410.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:02.23 | JeffM2501 | but leading up to that final document not knowing who adds what is a problem I feel |
| 18:02.35 | JeffM2501 | we need like super combo fourm wiki :) |
| 18:02.40 | JeffM2501 | or a wiki with real users |
| 18:02.41 | JeffM2501 | I dono |
| 18:02.58 | JeffM2501 | mostly I think we need discussion |
| 18:03.11 | JeffM2501 | the method of geting the design in the end is the small part |
| 18:03.15 | Tupone | but a discussion is better after writing |
| 18:03.26 | JeffM2501 | I think discussion is better with and during writing |
| 18:03.27 | Tupone | and writing after a discussion |
| 18:04.29 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 18:04.29 | JeffM2501 | the discussions are the parts we don't have :) |
| 18:04.29 | Tupone | niether writing at the moment |
| 18:04.29 | Tupone | neither |
| 18:04.29 | JeffM2501 | true |
| 18:04.32 | JeffM2501 | nor leadership |
| 18:04.38 | JeffM2501 | or motivation |
| 18:04.55 | Tupone | I could be your leader :) I could be your goal :) |
| 18:05.08 | JeffM2501 | any one of us could be the leader |
| 18:05.31 | Tupone | i was just kidding :) |
| 18:05.44 | blast007 | wiki tied global login? ;) |
| 18:05.46 | JeffM2501 | I don't see why you would have to kidd about it |
| 18:05.51 | blast007 | tied to* |
| 18:05.53 | JeffM2501 | no, wiki is it's own thing |
| 18:06.03 | blast007 | I mean, integrate a wiki |
| 18:06.06 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, we have no goals |
| 18:06.18 | JeffM2501 | blast007, I want to tie less things to the froums ;) |
| 18:06.31 | blast007 | I mean without the phpBB |
| 18:06.46 | JeffM2501 | well then the first part is spliting out the phpbb |
| 18:06.51 | JeffM2501 | and tha'ts a decent sized dask |
| 18:06.53 | JeffM2501 | task |
| 18:07.04 | Tupone | where is the bzbb we can add a mediawiki . |
| 18:09.02 | JeffM2501 | I think we should move to bzflag.bz before we add anything to the poor overlaoded current server |
| 18:09.29 | Tupone | where is located bzbb? |
| 18:09.33 | JeffM2501 | we can discuss and set forth some goals with out a wiki tho ;) |
| 18:09.38 | JeffM2501 | on Nidhoggr's server |
| 18:09.43 | JeffM2501 | same place as the list server |
| 18:09.49 | JeffM2501 | and my.bzflag.org |
| 18:10.27 | Tupone | I like the wiki ... working with that. We can ask to make a wiki at brlcad and use effectively |
| 18:10.35 | ToughShooter | ~bzfquery bzflag.secretplace.us:5355 |
| 18:10.55 | ToughShooter | See, I fear the server doesn't seem so busy nowadays |
| 18:11.05 | JeffM2501 | a better wiki will help sure, but it's not the solution to all our problems |
| 18:12.06 | JeffM2501 | it's not bandwith |
| 18:12.09 | ToughShooter | When you want to reduce load of server you would need to make a small database () |
| 18:12.09 | JeffM2501 | it's cpu |
| 18:12.17 | Tupone | well, I have now to write what else I want to put in 2.2 and I have no space :( |
| 18:12.29 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, todo :) |
| 18:12.38 | JeffM2501 | or use our current wiki |
| 18:12.45 | JeffM2501 | and jsut make sure the rest of us know about it |
| 18:12.48 | Tupone | todo ? I cannot commit |
| 18:12.49 | ToughShooter | PHPBB stores a lot of not needed data for global logins |
| 18:13.12 | JeffM2501 | ToughShooter, that is why we want to split global login out of phpbb |
| 18:13.20 | JeffM2501 | just noone has taken the time to do it |
| 18:13.43 | ToughShooter | Yes, sadly :( |
| 18:13.45 | JeffM2501 | the only reason we used the forums is becuase that is what tim hooked it into ( because it was the only user database we had ) |
| 18:14.12 | JeffM2501 | the rest of us see it as a poor design, but don't have the time/skill to fix it |
| 18:14.25 | JeffM2501 | we need an oficial dedicated web monkey ;) |
| 18:15.05 | ToughShooter | menotume does great jobs but has not much time it seems |
| 18:15.19 | JeffM2501 | yeah time is a big factor |
| 18:15.22 | Tupone | I think we need LDAP, but I'm not so sure |
| 18:15.27 | JeffM2501 | ldap? |
| 18:15.29 | JeffM2501 | what for? |
| 18:15.36 | JeffM2501 | you want an address book? |
| 18:15.45 | Tupone | user data? |
| 18:15.52 | JeffM2501 | a cutom user database is fine |
| 18:15.52 | ToughShooter | I could do, too but I am also very limited and my skills are lower than menotume's I think |
| 18:16.01 | JeffM2501 | it just needs to be not tied to the fourms |
| 18:16.02 | Tupone | I don't know who is taking resource |
| 18:16.11 | JeffM2501 | the server |
| 18:16.14 | ToughShooter | I rather spent my time playing instead of coding :/ |
| 18:16.22 | JeffM2501 | it has a replay bug that is using 75% of the CPU |
| 18:17.10 | ToughShooter | Does global auth use mysql writing on the server? |
| 18:17.17 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:17.20 | JeffM2501 | just a little |
| 18:17.21 | trepan | JeffM2501: what bug? |
| 18:17.31 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, knows more about it |
| 18:17.48 | JeffM2501 | he had told nid what to do, but he has yet to do it ( dono if he saw the thing to do ) |
| 18:18.05 | JeffM2501 | somethere where replay was using a bunch of the CPU on that system |
| 18:18.18 | ToughShooter | Ah, yes, then that was bzls (I don't find that source file right now) but writing should not be necessary and creates load, too |
| 18:18.34 | trepan | bzfs recording that is? or replaying? |
| 18:18.37 | JeffM2501 | the time spent in mysql on the machine issmall |
| 18:18.49 | JeffM2501 | trepan, one of the 2, I don't know |
| 18:18.59 | JeffM2501 | ToughShooter, the problem is not the list server |
| 18:19.11 | Tupone | or replying? |
| 18:19.22 | JeffM2501 | I don't know |
| 18:19.24 | JeffM2501 | ask brlcad |
| 18:19.36 | JeffM2501 | TimRiker, sadly noone else did |
| 18:19.53 | ToughShooter | JeffM2501: It is part of the problem, at least it looks like that for me (but bzls itself does not create much load) |
| 18:20.18 | trepan | JeffM2501: you sure about that? |
| 18:20.28 | JeffM2501 | ToughShooter, talk with brlcad he did the research into the slowdowns and came to the conclusion that it was the server withs omething with record |
| 18:20.32 | JeffM2501 | I just know what I read |
| 18:20.35 | JeffM2501 | he would know more |
| 18:21.10 | TimRiker | JeffM2501: the current feels like a few boxes thrown up on screen. they don't line up. the logo is just another non-lined up box. |
| 18:21.32 | JeffM2501 | it still needs tweaking yes, I think I want to move the side box down |
| 18:21.46 | JeffM2501 | but the old one was just drab and old, many people complained about it |
| 18:21.59 | ToughShooter | The forums look much better but bzflag.org looks not so good now, IMHO |
| 18:22.15 | JeffM2501 | ok I'll take that under advisement |
| 18:22.18 | JeffM2501 | and rework it |
| 18:22.28 | JeffM2501 | I am trying to make them match somewhat |
| 18:22.30 | TimRiker | so the new one is drab and new. nice. :) |
| 18:22.45 | JeffM2501 | I figured tanks are made of metal ;) |
| 18:23.01 | JeffM2501 | other then you guys everyone else I have spoken too likes it |
| 18:23.15 | JeffM2501 | I can understand the alignment thing tho and will work on it |
| 18:23.34 | TimRiker | the forums are nicer now. |
| 18:23.39 | JeffM2501 | that they are |
| 18:23.49 | JeffM2501 | my goal is to have the 2 sites in a similar theme |
| 18:23.58 | JeffM2501 | our final goal would be to integrate both sites |
| 18:23.59 | TimRiker | that would be nice. :) |
| 18:24.09 | JeffM2501 | and have the main site handle user admin instead of the froums |
| 18:24.24 | JeffM2501 | I will work on it when I get home |
| 18:24.40 | JeffM2501 | saturos is going to be making us some logo variatons for each site |
| 18:24.46 | JeffM2501 | when he has the time |
| 18:25.38 | trepan | JeffM2501: just to confirm, your stating that 75% of the CPU on db.bzflag.org is being eaten by a bzfs replay bug? |
| 18:25.59 | JeffM2501 | that is what I got from reading what brlcad was saying to Nidhoggr |
| 18:26.08 | JeffM2501 | he would know more of the specifics |
| 18:26.14 | JeffM2501 | I may be wrong on the exact numbers |
| 18:26.48 | JeffM2501 | he indicated that the slowdown was with the server process, not the froums or list server |
| 18:29.09 | JeffM2501 | like I say, ask him |
| 18:29.18 | JeffM2501 | maybe it was something else |
| 18:29.23 | JeffM2501 | or some other misconfiguration |
| 18:29.25 | JeffM2501 | not a bug |
| 18:29.26 | JeffM2501 | I dono |
| 18:29.35 | JeffM2501 | he used the term "replay" |
| 18:30.47 | JeffM2501 | I just want to get the server moved, I know nid means well by donating it, but his current situation means he don't have as much time for system admin. brlcad has more time for system admin.. and we can keep nids as a backup |
| 18:31.04 | JeffM2501 | I'm sure also reducing bandwith on nids will help him out finacialy |
| 18:32.17 | ToughShooter | I wonder how many traffic is on secretplace :o |
| 18:32.39 | JeffM2501 | nid was saying it's not a bandwith problem |
| 18:32.47 | JeffM2501 | and I hear SP trafic is WAY down |
| 18:33.15 | ToughShooter | I don't think the traffic is the problem now but I am curious how many traffic there is |
| 18:33.27 | JeffM2501 | he has trafic logs somewhere |
| 18:36.04 | ToughShooter | more than 2000GB/month? |
| 18:36.18 | JeffM2501 | I don't know |
| 18:36.29 | JeffM2501 | maybe |
| 18:36.33 | JeffM2501 | in it's heyday |
| 18:36.35 | JeffM2501 | why? |
| 18:37.08 | ToughShooter | I try to imagine how many it must cost |
| 18:37.26 | JeffM2501 | he used to work at an ISP, he gets a special deal |
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| 19:03.36 | BinaryAway | I dreamed 2.0.6 was released (and for some reason you released 1.1 again...) |
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| 19:10.55 | BinarySpike | whoa, so 2.0.6 is almost out :D |
| 19:11.22 | ToughShooter | Dev CVS is down so 2.0.6 has to wait |
| 19:11.52 | Mr_Molez | 2.0.6 should be released a few days after cvs comes up ;) |
| 19:12.16 | BinarySpike | ah, did it breaked? |
| 19:12.52 | Mr_Molez | its always broke :) |
| 19:12.57 | Mr_Molez | always when you need it the most :) |
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| 20:09.21 | Gnurdux | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:09.21 | Gnurdux | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:09.30 | Gnurdux | why are the 2 values outputter different? |
| 20:10.14 | Gnurdux | brlcad |
| 20:10.22 | brlcad | Gnurdux: |
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| 20:12.25 | Gnurdux | blast007, you here |
| 20:14.32 | brlcad | i might have helped until you poked me directly |
| 20:16.05 | brlcad | look at the return type of bz_getBZDBItemPerms, and look up what it means |
| 20:16.10 | Gnurdux | sry i didnt realize that bothers me |
| 20:16.14 | Gnurdux | ok |
| 20:16.34 | Gnurdux | bothers you i mean |
| 20:17.02 | Gnurdux | ok looking at the source of bzfsAPI.h it returns an int |
| 20:17.38 | Gnurdux | hmm and looking at bzfsAPI.cxx its return value has the same meaning as the argument to setbzdbstring |
| 20:18.04 | Gnurdux | it uses the defines in bzfs.h |
| 20:18.09 | brlcad | it's bothersome only because it's a general question -- ask the question and wait for a response, if someone reads it and wants to answer you they will |
| 20:18.14 | CBG | Gnurdux: do you have to 'think aloud'? |
| 20:18.30 | Gnurdux | anyway the output i get is: NPerms 3, 3/nNPerms: 3, 2 |
| 20:18.49 | JeffM2501 | use the debuger... see what each thing retruns and why |
| 20:18.58 | Gnurdux | this is a plugin for setting variable permissions to 3, which makes them inaccessible, and it is supposed to set them back when it unloads |
| 20:19.03 | Gnurdux | but its not doing that |
| 20:19.15 | JeffM2501 | then use the debuger and see what it IS doing |
| 20:19.39 | Gnurdux | hmm. the source seems simple though |
| 20:19.55 | JeffM2501 | except that it is not doing what you expect |
| 20:19.59 | JeffM2501 | why do you fear the debuger so? |
| 20:20.07 | Gnurdux | im not good with debuggers |
| 20:20.14 | JeffM2501 | then become better |
| 20:20.18 | JeffM2501 | learn |
| 20:20.22 | JeffM2501 | they are a powerfull tool |
| 20:20.22 | Gnurdux | and my bzfs isnt built with debug in it |
| 20:20.29 | JeffM2501 | then build it |
| 20:20.55 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, looking at the code yourself should the 2 values be the same> |
| 20:21.03 | JeffM2501 | use the debuger |
| 20:21.08 | JeffM2501 | don't try to babble your way out of it |
| 20:21.58 | Gnurdux | how could the debugger help?\ |
| 20:22.12 | JeffM2501 | you can step thru the code as it exwcutes and see WHY it comes out diferent |
| 20:22.18 | brlcad | because you'll learn what is going on |
| 20:22.28 | brlcad | learning is good |
| 20:22.40 | JeffM2501 | using a debuger is part of being a developer |
| 20:22.45 | CBG | Gnurdux: it will DE-BUG your code... ;) |
| 20:23.30 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, should i debug the whole server or just the plugin |
| 20:23.39 | JeffM2501 | I would do both |
| 20:23.51 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, so apple didn't do anything for it's 30th? |
| 20:24.22 | CBG | I don't think so. :( |
| 20:24.23 | brlcad | apparently not |
| 20:24.41 | JeffM2501 | did they even do an april fools? |
| 20:26.00 | brlcad | i can't recall them ever doing an april fools |
| 20:26.06 | JeffM2501 | I can |
| 20:26.14 | JeffM2501 | the intel pentium space heater ;) |
| 20:29.36 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, how could a debugger help me with those 2 lines? |
| 20:30.12 | blast007 | Gnurdux: o.O |
| 20:30.38 | brlcad | Gnurdux: why don't you give the debugger a try so you find out |
| 20:30.48 | brlcad | you could be part way through the manual by now |
| 20:31.37 | brlcad | ~google "gdb tutorial" |
| 20:32.12 | Gnurdux | ive used gdb before, im jsut not a big fan of it |
| 20:33.17 | JeffM2501 | then you probably didn't understand what it can do |
| 20:33.24 | JeffM2501 | I don't like GDB ether |
| 20:33.36 | JeffM2501 | but that dosn't mean I don't llike other debugers ;) |
| 20:33.42 | JeffM2501 | the one in kdev is prety cool |
| 20:34.27 | JeffM2501 | for a gcc debuger |
| 20:34.55 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, is bz debugable with xchat? even tho it's built by the makefile sripts? |
| 20:35.24 | JeffM2501 | I've never tried |
| 20:36.19 | brlcad | "with xchat"? |
| 20:36.24 | JeffM2501 | sorry xcode |
| 20:36.27 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 20:36.30 | brlcad | oh, heh |
| 20:36.32 | JeffM2501 | that would be wierd to have an IRC debuger |
| 20:36.39 | brlcad | yeha |
| 20:37.00 | JeffM2501 | /next_line #bzflag LOL j00 r0x0rz! |
| 20:37.07 | brlcad | yeah, it's debuggable -- but need to run windowed |
| 20:37.13 | JeffM2501 | well sure |
| 20:37.17 | JeffM2501 | or you don't see anything ;) |
| 20:37.20 | JeffM2501 | same on windows |
| 20:37.27 | brlcad | i see something :) |
| 20:37.30 | JeffM2501 | well unless you run multiple displays |
| 20:37.33 | brlcad | multiple displays |
| 20:37.36 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:37.43 | JeffM2501 | no multi on the mini |
| 20:38.09 | brlcad | but bz doesn't pass the events if you're fullscreen (boo hiss) so I can't get focus into the other displays to type |
| 20:38.16 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 20:38.22 | brlcad | the mouse events make it, but not the keyboard |
| 20:38.31 | brlcad | should probably fix that, but it's minor |
| 20:38.38 | JeffM2501 | well it works, that's the imortant thing |
| 20:39.11 | JeffM2501 | hmm we may not even make wednesday if they don't get the backup done today |
| 20:40.05 | JeffM2501 | have to copy bz to my new "sqishy" usb flash drive |
| 20:44.10 | brlcad | if not, we can go for saturday afternoon |
| 20:44.16 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
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| 21:08.09 | brlcad | woot, an elicited response |
| 21:08.17 | DTRemenak | whoops, instinct |
| 21:09.20 | JeffM2501 | dude I love the naughty chair |
| 21:09.58 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: I wasn't referring to your bondage chair ;) |
| 21:10.30 | JeffM2501 | all the cool kids hang out at the naughty chair |
| 21:10.37 | JeffM2501 | even capiatan hero |
| 21:11.16 | JeffM2501 | you don't watch "Drawn Together" ? |
| 21:11.26 | Mr_Molez | nope |
| 21:11.35 | JeffM2501 | then you are missing a very funny show |
| 21:30.31 | BenUrban | heh |
| 21:30.57 | BenUrban | actually it's nauty stool |
| 21:30.59 | BenUrban | err |
| 21:31.01 | BenUrban | naughty |
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| 21:32.15 | blast007 | or knotty stool |
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| 21:39.15 | Mr_Molez | the stool is out of fashion |
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| 22:05.56 | Gnurdux | Mr_Molez, you know how to make plugins too? |
| 22:09.16 | Gnurdux | orange, btw i finished the themes plugin--sort of (it requires linux and a patch for the server)--and its available for demonstration of brad's crazy server |
| 22:11.12 | Mr_Molez | uh no |
| 22:11.20 | Gnurdux | :( |
| 22:11.27 | Gnurdux | but you know how to make cheat clients |
| 22:11.40 | Mr_Molez | shut up |
| 22:11.58 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, please do not discuss cheats here |
| 22:12.03 | Gnurdux | ok |
| 22:12.40 | JeffM2501 | do you know what the word "tact" means |
| 22:12.47 | Gnurdux | yes |
| 22:12.51 | JeffM2501 | then use some |
| 22:13.39 | Gnurdux | tact is something that i lack |
| 22:13.50 | JeffM2501 | very much |
| 22:13.54 | JeffM2501 | so get some |
| 22:14.56 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, just because you are a cheater and can build plugins dosn't mean eveyrone else who can build bzfs can build plugins |
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| 22:17.18 | Tupone | JeffM2501: how is irrlicht ? |
| 22:17.40 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, an interetesting quake variant |
| 22:17.45 | JeffM2501 | lighting is it's bigest thing |
| 22:17.56 | JeffM2501 | I wasn't impressed by it's code style |
| 22:18.07 | Tupone | :) |
| 22:18.17 | Tupone | it says it is very fast |
| 22:18.36 | JeffM2501 | yeah it dosn't do much |
| 22:18.40 | JeffM2501 | in the way of effects |
| 22:18.51 | JeffM2501 | so it is very fast at the simpler geometries it renders |
| 22:19.17 | JeffM2501 | IIRC it's doing a BSP/PVS type of world |
| 22:19.22 | JeffM2501 | not realy well suited for our stuff |
| 22:19.26 | JeffM2501 | more for indoor things |
| 22:19.33 | Tupone | ahh |
| 22:19.45 | JeffM2501 | it started life as a quake map viewer |
| 22:19.48 | Tupone | I 've seen most indoor screenshot |
| 22:20.01 | JeffM2501 | yeah they have some outdoor support |
| 22:20.05 | JeffM2501 | but it's done as a hack |
| 22:20.15 | JeffM2501 | basicly a large invisible "room" around it all |
| 22:20.21 | JeffM2501 | it works but it's not optimal |
| 22:20.49 | JeffM2501 | personaly I'm a fan of portal systems |
| 22:20.58 | Tupone | like ? |
| 22:21.03 | JeffM2501 | unreal |
| 22:21.17 | Tupone | never played there :/ |
| 22:21.31 | JeffM2501 | a good portal system can do fast indoor and outdoor |
| 22:21.39 | JeffM2501 | thre are many games based on the unreal engine |
| 22:21.45 | JeffM2501 | sadly it is not free |
| 22:21.58 | JeffM2501 | I don't find many good open source portal engines |
| 22:22.31 | JeffM2501 | if we realy wanted to do a 3rd party engine, then ogre would probably be best, since we could write our own scenegraph plugin if we wanted to |
| 22:22.33 | JeffM2501 | that would be optimal |
| 22:22.44 | JeffM2501 | tho they have an octree one now that is probably as fast as our current stuff |
| 22:23.00 | Tupone | openscengraph? |
| 22:23.15 | Tupone | too much scene? |
| 22:23.20 | JeffM2501 | that would be another too look at |
| 22:23.37 | JeffM2501 | or maybe leting OSG do the scenegraph for Ogre ( a posiblity ) |
| 22:23.44 | JeffM2501 | ogre has a lot of nice material features |
| 22:23.56 | JeffM2501 | and reads many thigns from it's own scripts |
| 22:24.24 | JeffM2501 | those 2 are the "big" ones to look at I think |
| 22:24.30 | Tupone | I will try to put openscenegraph inside gentoo :] but later |
| 22:24.45 | JeffM2501 | crystal space would be another but I hear it's a dependency hog |
| 22:25.22 | purple_cow | ogre's API is pretty |
| 22:25.25 | JBdiGriz | too much emphasis on graphics, not enough on gameplay........ |
| 22:25.26 | Tupone | crystalspace is still like in beta. version 0.99 if that count as beta |
| 22:25.31 | purple_cow | except for cegui |
| 22:25.33 | JeffM2501 | I think we need to get as much stuff as we can on the server first before we look at angines |
| 22:25.41 | JeffM2501 | yeah ogre is a very clean API |
| 22:25.52 | JeffM2501 | yeah well you don't have to use Eddies GUI ;) |
| 22:26.20 | JeffM2501 | purple_cow, reimplement picoGUI in ogre ;) |
| 22:26.35 | purple_cow | hahahaha |
| 22:26.39 | Tupone | what is the easier things to do for adding unicode ? |
| 22:26.47 | purple_cow | i'll ask scanlime |
| 22:26.53 | purple_cow | he'll be happy to! |
| 22:27.00 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, canpasulate all our string handling into a text manager |
| 22:27.17 | JBdiGriz | ~dict canpasulate |
| 22:27.18 | Tupone | but I'm worried about renderer |
| 22:28.06 | JeffM2501 | wrap up |
| 22:28.15 | JeffM2501 | oh yeah rendering |
| 22:28.16 | JBdiGriz | like a burrito? |
| 22:28.18 | JeffM2501 | yeah FTGL man :) |
| 22:28.49 | Tupone | FTGL need to be integrated in out engine, but it was slow |
| 22:28.56 | JeffM2501 | just cus the way you did it |
| 22:29.08 | JeffM2501 | I'm using FTGL in GPx01 and it's fine and dandy |
| 22:29.12 | Tupone | aww, please please .. can you do it ? |
| 22:29.19 | Tupone | in bzflag |
| 22:29.36 | JeffM2501 | yeah we could just pull the font manager over from GPx01 |
| 22:29.44 | JeffM2501 | I was just waiting till 2.1.x was going more |
| 22:29.55 | Tupone | yep, in 2.1 |
| 22:30.03 | JeffM2501 | it should not be hard |
| 22:31.33 | Tupone | then I'm not searching for a new engine. I just want the unicode |
| 22:31.57 | JeffM2501 | the unicode for now is best served by FTGL |
| 22:32.03 | JeffM2501 | should not be hard |
| 22:32.14 | JeffM2501 | the hard part is all the internal storeage and tranmition |
| 22:32.16 | Tupone | great |
| 22:32.19 | JeffM2501 | on the bzflag side |
| 22:32.56 | Tupone | what is available on windows for i18n? |
| 22:33.12 | JeffM2501 | dono |
| 22:33.51 | Tupone | that should be investigated, after getting international character set |
| 22:34.06 | JeffM2501 | well windows supports what we have now |
| 22:34.37 | Tupone | I think windows support more |
| 22:35.40 | JeffM2501 | there will probably be a solution for every OS |
| 22:35.53 | JeffM2501 | the fun part is changing all of the internal string handling |
| 22:36.03 | Tupone | I hope not very different from OS to OS |
| 22:36.15 | JeffM2501 | probably not if we just include the code in bzflag |
| 22:36.20 | JeffM2501 | since we are doing our own rendering |
| 22:36.24 | JeffM2501 | don't need much OS support |
| 22:36.37 | Tupone | well, we need the translation |
| 22:36.46 | JeffM2501 | that's the human part :) |
| 22:37.24 | JeffM2501 | and would be pulled from our interneal string resouces |
| 22:37.29 | Tupone | there is something that is not doable just converting string to string, like when doing plurals for instance |
| 22:37.50 | JeffM2501 | then we'll need resource IDs that are uses for each message |
| 22:37.50 | Tupone | one shot, two shots |
| 22:37.54 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 22:37.58 | JeffM2501 | we'll have to do it smart |
| 22:38.08 | JeffM2501 | we have to do the same thing our our product here |
| 22:38.12 | JeffM2501 | we support 13 languages |
| 22:38.16 | Tupone | windows and unix already have that smart, unix for sure |
| 22:38.36 | JeffM2501 | as far as I know, windows provides no string translation services |
| 22:38.38 | JeffM2501 | it's up to the app |
| 22:38.54 | JeffM2501 | windows by default only knows of one language |
| 22:38.57 | Tupone | however there is a free library |
| 22:38.57 | JeffM2501 | the installed one |
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| 22:39.18 | JeffM2501 | i'd rather not use automatic translations |
| 22:39.21 | JeffM2501 | but resource trees |
| 22:39.32 | Tupone | is nothing automatic |
| 22:39.49 | Tupone | you still provide file for translation |
| 22:39.57 | JeffM2501 | then what do you need a lib for? |
| 22:40.07 | Tupone | and the syntax is like the one we use |
| 22:40.09 | JeffM2501 | if it's just a lookup and string grab |
| 22:40.25 | Tupone | probably the po file could be kept |
| 22:40.47 | JeffM2501 | how do other applications do it? |
| 22:40.51 | JeffM2501 | like firefox? |
| 22:41.16 | Tupone | All applications use gettext (?) |
| 22:41.40 | JeffM2501 | what does it take and return? |
| 22:41.54 | Tupone | english string and translated string IIRC |
| 22:41.58 | JeffM2501 | oh |
| 22:42.00 | JeffM2501 | eww |
| 22:42.08 | Tupone | plus some parameters, like the format |
| 22:42.11 | JeffM2501 | why not just pass in a message ID number |
| 22:42.17 | JeffM2501 | and get back the string |
| 22:42.37 | Tupone | I will study it when I 'll se unicode in bzflag |
| 22:42.49 | Tupone | I never used before |
| 22:42.52 | JeffM2501 | nor I |
| 22:43.12 | JeffM2501 | but I"d think that would be a lower priority item then server side auth |
| 22:44.27 | Tupone | probably, even if unicode is a priority for japanese :) |
| 22:44.37 | *** join/#bzflag mozul (n=KBC18135@aba714.aero.org) |
| 22:44.51 | JeffM2501 | honestly, they have had to deal with english for so long. it's not THAT bad for them |
| 22:45.04 | Tupone | hmm we will get more lag if we implement unicode then :/ |
| 22:45.22 | JeffM2501 | lag I don't know. bandwith requirements for text messages would increase |
| 22:45.31 | JeffM2501 | you would only add lag if the pipe was flooded |
| 22:45.51 | Tupone | I just mean that people from far country will try to play. That will increase lag |
| 22:46.01 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 22:46.07 | JeffM2501 | they would have higher latency |
| 22:46.12 | JeffM2501 | same as now |
| 22:46.38 | JeffM2501 | same as australian people trying to play on US servers |
| 22:47.05 | Tupone | yeah, is so bad that they use the same character set as our :) |
| 22:47.29 | JeffM2501 | if the server list was better it could help them find the best server for each locale |
| 23:00.32 | *** join/#bzflag javaJake (n=185bba28@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 23:00.44 | javaJake | Hey, my MSN crashed, and it didn't log. |
| 23:00.50 | JeffM2501 | umm ok |
| 23:01.02 | javaJake | I'm looking for jeffry(something)@hotmail.com |
| 23:01.07 | JeffM2501 | me? |
| 23:01.12 | javaJake | He was helping me with vid cards |
| 23:01.15 | JeffM2501 | that was me |
| 23:01.17 | javaJake | haha |
| 23:01.19 | javaJake | No way |
| 23:01.21 | javaJake | Whew |
| 23:01.39 | JeffM2501 | use /msg javaJake |
| 23:01.42 | javaJake | OK |
| 23:01.43 | javaJake | Sorry |
| 23:06.04 | *** part/#bzflag javaJake (n=185bba28@webchat.bzflag.bz) |
| 23:06.16 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (n=SportChi@69-167-25-130.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 23:06.16 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
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| 23:14.23 | mozul | Hello JeffM2501 |
| 23:14.28 | JeffM2501 | sup |
| 23:14.46 | mozul | I'm in the market for a new monitor |
| 23:14.55 | JeffM2501 | how big? |
| 23:15.01 | mozul | my old freebie 17" is getting blurrier and blurrier |
| 23:15.08 | mozul | i want CRT and big as will fit. |
| 23:15.14 | JeffM2501 | why a CRT? |
| 23:15.26 | mozul | better for games right? I don't need thin |
| 23:15.33 | JeffM2501 | not really |
| 23:15.40 | JeffM2501 | LCDs are very crisp |
| 23:15.55 | JeffM2501 | and if you get the right one, just as fast on refresh as a CRT |
| 23:16.04 | JeffM2501 | how much do you have to spend is the big question? |
| 23:16.08 | mozul | whatever I get I'd like my video card to be able to run at max res |
| 23:16.23 | JeffM2501 | what card do you have? |
| 23:16.48 | mozul | nvidea |
| 23:16.51 | mozul | 7800gt |
| 23:17.03 | mozul | 2048 x 1536 is max on it i think |
| 23:17.03 | JeffM2501 | that will run prety much anything at max res |
| 23:17.06 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:17.14 | JeffM2501 | you wn't find a CRT that goes that big |
| 23:17.24 | JeffM2501 | CTRs usualy stop at about 1600x1200 |
| 23:17.24 | mozul | actually i do |
| 23:17.37 | JeffM2501 | how much you want to spend? |
| 23:17.51 | mozul | <$400 |
| 23:17.55 | JeffM2501 | I just got a dell 24 widescreen LCD and I'll never go back |
| 23:18.04 | JeffM2501 | umm you can get a good CRT 21 inch for that |
| 23:18.12 | JeffM2501 | or a good 19inch LCD for that |
| 23:18.28 | JeffM2501 | both are about the same phisical sise usualy |
| 23:18.51 | mozul | i was leaning to this http://www.pricegrabber.com/p__Philips_202P73_27_22_Monitor,__10599854/sort_type=bottomline |
| 23:18.53 | JeffM2501 | for a band I've had good luck with videwsonic |
| 23:19.15 | JeffM2501 | at max res that will slow down your games |
| 23:19.20 | JeffM2501 | and things will look VERY Small |
| 23:19.26 | JeffM2501 | I've never used a philoips |
| 23:19.55 | JeffM2501 | well if your games even support that res |
| 23:20.02 | JeffM2501 | most will probably crap out at 1600 |
| 23:20.02 | mozul | and even that one doesn't fill the space in my desk |
| 23:20.03 | *** join/#bzflag Legoguy (n=Legoguy@70.131.162.162) |
| 23:20.26 | mozul | ok so I really dont need more than that I suppose |
| 23:21.07 | JeffM2501 | this is what I just got |
| 23:21.08 | JeffM2501 | http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/ProductDetail.aspx?sku=24053YR&c=us&cat=snp&category_id=6198&cs=19&l=en&Page=productlisting.aspx |
| 23:21.32 | JeffM2501 | and it runs games fine with a 7800GTX |
| 23:23.01 | Mr_Molez | uhh is there a way to un-rm something ? |
| 23:23.09 | Gnurdux | not really |
| 23:23.15 | Gnurdux | rm == delete |
| 23:23.26 | Mr_Molez | terrific |
| 23:23.40 | Gnurdux | what did you rm? |
| 23:23.54 | JeffM2501 | it's unix your suposed to know what your are doing |
| 23:23.57 | Mr_Molez | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:24.02 | Gnurdux | omfg |
| 23:24.04 | Mr_Molez | yeh well :( |
| 23:24.05 | Gnurdux | your screwed |
| 23:24.13 | Gnurdux | that will fuck up your system |
| 23:24.19 | Gnurdux | sorry to tell you that |
| 23:24.23 | Gnurdux | its not all lost though |
| 23:24.24 | Mr_Molez | shush the system might not notice:) |
| 23:24.29 | Gnurdux | you can look at groups |
| 23:24.57 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, please watch your language |
| 23:24.58 | *** join/#bzflag mozul (n=KBC18135@aba714.aero.org) |
| 23:25.01 | Gnurdux | oh sorry |
| 23:25.18 | JeffM2501 | and your furry god has nothing to do with RM |
| 23:25.23 | mozul | stupid gaim locked up when I clicked that. |
| 23:25.27 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 23:25.46 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, welcome to the world of "recovery CD" |
| 23:25.53 | *** join/#bzflag Legoguy_ (n=Legoguy@ppp-70-131-174-125.dsl.emhril.ameritech.net) |
| 23:26.24 | Mr_Molez | no chance. I can't I won't , there must be another way |
| 23:26.49 | JeffM2501 | there may be some disk tools to search the directory tree for the lost file |
| 23:26.59 | JeffM2501 | the longer you use the system disk the harder it is to get back |
| 23:27.19 | JeffM2501 | generaly you need to boot from a recoery cd or disk so that the app can do it's work on the disk |
| 23:28.19 | JeffM2501 | or if you know all the users on the machine you can set new passwords for them |
| 23:28.24 | JeffM2501 | and rebuild the file manualy |
| 23:28.31 | Mr_Molez | The Debian system makes regular backups of them in /var/backups |
| 23:28.35 | Mr_Molez | yay |
| 23:28.37 | JeffM2501 | ahh good |
| 23:28.46 | mozul | that one is a bit higher priced for me. but you have made me look into LCD's again |
| 23:28.53 | Mr_Molez | love you debian ! |
| 23:29.26 | JeffM2501 | mozul, if you get an LCD with a refresh time of 15ms or faster, then it's fine for games |
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| 23:30.36 | JeffM2501 | mozul, it raining out there? |
| 23:30.53 | mozul | It was. Cloudy now. |
| 23:30.58 | JeffM2501 | same here |
| 23:31.01 | mozul | they say we are gonna get dumped on tonight |
| 23:31.11 | JeffM2501 | :( |
| 23:31.30 | JeffM2501 | I wanted to rid me motorcycle to work tomorow :( |
| 23:32.12 | JeffM2501 | wow kinda nasty all week even |
| 23:34.31 | mozul | Ride thursday |
| 23:34.34 | mozul | or friday |
| 23:40.32 | mozul | http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/ProductDetail.aspx?TabPage=techspecs&sku=20013YR&spagenum=1&category_id=5194&brandid=&k=&c=us&l=en&cs=19&mnf=&prst=&prEnd=&mnfsku=&orderby=final_price&searchtype=&pageb4search=&page=productlisting.aspx&instock=&refurbished= < looks good |
| 23:42.36 | menotume | you may be able to get a better deal at newegg |
| 23:43.30 | menotume | mozul: http://www.newegg.com/ProductSort/SubCategory.asp?SubCategory=20 |
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| 23:50.33 | A_Meteorite | g2g |
| 23:58.21 | JeffM2501 | LCDs are very very crisp |
| 23:58.25 | JeffM2501 | and look great for text |
| 23:58.43 | JeffM2501 | it hurts me to go from home on an LCD to work on CRTs |