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| 00:46.46 | Gnurdux | hmmm |
| 00:47.01 | Gnurdux | you know what would be a good plugin? something that flushes the record buffer on every TK |
| 00:47.18 | wegstar | :) |
| 00:47.41 | Gnurdux | that way admins could go back and see what was actually happening |
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| 00:51.29 | trepan | why flush it? just save back as far as need be |
| 00:51.45 | Gnurdux | yes |
| 00:51.50 | Gnurdux | save the last 15 seconds |
| 00:51.56 | trepan | you can already do that |
| 00:51.59 | Gnurdux | how? |
| 00:52.13 | trepan | by "flush" you mean save? |
| 00:52.17 | Gnurdux | ye |
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| 01:07.50 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org/ || http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag || http://BZFlag.org/wiki/GettingHelp || paste to http://bzflag.pastebin.ca || CVS HEAD is 2.1 UNSTABLE, use for new commits || 2.0.8 is released react acordingly |
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| 01:24.59 | Gnurdux | is there a bzfsapi event callled on server start |
| 01:33.07 | blast007 | Gnurdux: the closest thing you'll get is the plugin load function |
| 01:33.38 | Gnurdux | cause i want to make a plugin that can only be loaded at startup |
| 01:35.39 | blast007 | well an api event would have nothing to do with that then |
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| 01:47.16 | L4m3r | Gnurdux, you could just make sure there are NO players when the plugin is loaded |
| 01:47.23 | Gnurdux | true |
| 01:47.34 | Gnurdux | actually i dont think i want to do it anyway |
| 01:49.36 | blast007 | or add the ability to check the server uptime to the API ;) |
| 01:57.34 | Gnurdux | brad, you want a / command to change maps? |
| 01:57.59 | CBG | huh? |
| 01:58.07 | CBG | just make a rotation and /superkill |
| 01:58.22 | Gnurdux | CBG, apparently you and brad want something like: /map mapname |
| 01:58.24 | blast007 | CBG: I'm assuming to choose which map is next |
| 01:58.25 | Mr_Molez | CBG: say yes ! |
| 01:58.25 | Gnurdux | according to Molez |
| 01:58.40 | blast007 | Gnurdux: I myself think that would be a cool plugin |
| 01:58.44 | CBG | me and brad? huh? |
| 01:58.45 | Mr_Molez | yay |
| 01:58.48 | Mr_Molez | even blast wants it |
| 01:58.58 | Gnurdux | blast007, it would also need an external program |
| 01:59.04 | Gnurdux | ill get started tomorrow, i need to go |
| 01:59.08 | Gnurdux | and it would be linux-only |
| 01:59.09 | Mr_Molez | cool :D |
| 01:59.10 | blast007 | just write the map filename to a file |
| 01:59.17 | blast007 | linux only? |
| 01:59.20 | L4m3r | I've thought about something similar that does whole confs |
| 01:59.35 | blast007 | I don't see why it would have to be linux only |
| 01:59.53 | Mr_Molez | he said he would need an external program to start bzfs up again |
| 01:59.57 | blast007 | there's likely a way to do a similar thing with a batch file |
| 01:59.57 | L4m3r | Because he doesn't understand how stupidly simple the script would have to be |
| 01:59.58 | CBG | and you think Gnurdux would? |
| 02:00.13 | blast007 | and no external program |
| 02:00.19 | L4m3r | yeah, bash, batch, applescript could probably do it even |
| 02:00.19 | blast007 | it would just write the map name |
| 02:00.33 | blast007 | and a script would read the map name, and go from there |
| 02:00.36 | blast007 | or a map conf name |
| 02:00.56 | L4m3r | I was thinking of one to generate a conf using a sort of crude scripting language |
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| 02:01.29 | L4m3r | include files or echo directly into a temporary conf and restart the server |
| 02:01.30 | blast007 | I would think that goes beyond the need of the plugin |
| 02:01.36 | Gnurdux | blast007, the code would all be OS-specific |
| 02:02.04 | Gnurdux | my idea is to have an external program to restart the server, with pipe-based communication |
| 02:02.04 | L4m3r | Gnu, you'd only need like a 3-line shell script to keep the server alive |
| 02:02.08 | blast007 | Gnurdux: wouldn't be much code though |
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| 02:02.24 | blast007 | all the plugin does is write the map or conf filename to another file |
| 02:02.31 | Gnurdux | oohh ok |
| 02:02.39 | Gnurdux | but theres no shutdown in the API |
| 02:02.43 | blast007 | then an external script that is running the server in a loop would read that file, and act accordingly |
| 02:02.47 | blast007 | ah |
| 02:02.57 | blast007 | that might be an issue there |
| 02:03.03 | Gnurdux | also, pipes would be more elegant |
| 02:03.04 | L4m3r | I could swear there was one. |
| 02:03.22 | Gnurdux | wait |
| 02:03.25 | Gnurdux | there is shutdown |
| 02:03.25 | Gnurdux | ok |
| 02:04.01 | Gnurdux | actually, the plugin itself might be able to restart the server |
| 02:04.11 | L4m3r | Not quite. |
| 02:04.25 | L4m3r | That is, unless it incurs a script or something to restart the server |
| 02:04.26 | blast007 | that would be rather hackish |
| 02:04.31 | Gnurdux | what if you did a superkill, started a new server, and shut down the old one? |
| 02:04.47 | L4m3r | the new one would fail to start, unless you put it on another port |
| 02:04.50 | blast007 | if you start it before it shuts the old one down, the port will still be in use |
| 02:04.55 | L4m3r | and that'd complicate things plenty |
| 02:04.59 | blast007 | yeah |
| 02:05.09 | blast007 | best to let an external script handle the loop |
| 02:05.13 | Gnurdux | so i guess the plugin does, on linux: outputs to a file: |
| 02:05.18 | Gnurdux | #!/usr/bin/bash |
| 02:05.21 | blast007 | the plugin doesn't have to be the complete solution |
| 02:05.27 | blast007 | just an aid |
| 02:05.28 | Gnurdux | bzfs -conf file.conf |
| 02:05.38 | Gnurdux | and the script runs the outputted file |
| 02:05.55 | L4m3r | I'd say the easiest way is about 99% plugin and an extremely simple shell script |
| 02:06.04 | Gnurdux | ill do a linux version now |
| 02:06.29 | blast007 | make a config file that lists valid choices too |
| 02:06.33 | L4m3r | file handling is the same across all OSes AFAIK |
| 02:06.45 | Gnurdux | blast007, hmm good idea |
| 02:06.49 | blast007 | L4m3r: not so sure on that |
| 02:06.55 | Gnurdux | if you use C++ it is |
| 02:06.57 | blast007 | the whole / vs \ stuff |
| 02:07.09 | Gnurdux | its doable |
| 02:07.24 | L4m3r | IIRC C++ lets you use / under windows |
| 02:07.26 | Gnurdux | so all it does is output the choice to a file? |
| 02:07.33 | blast007 | L4m3r: even 9x? |
| 02:07.42 | L4m3r | Maybe not. |
| 02:07.42 | blast007 | not that anyone should run a server on 9x ;) |
| 02:08.19 | L4m3r | but even so, that all depends on user input so it doesn't matter |
| 02:08.44 | L4m3r | not like you're going to pass C:/BZFLAG/bzfs through a conf |
| 02:08.45 | Gnurdux | actually there isnt even really a need for a conf |
| 02:08.51 | Gnurdux | it can all be in command string |
| 02:09.00 | Gnurdux | like: |
| 02:09.07 | blast007 | Gnurdux: what if you have 200 maps? :P |
| 02:09.11 | Gnurdux | hmm |
| 02:09.11 | Gnurdux | true |
| 02:09.14 | Gnurdux | actually |
| 02:09.23 | Gnurdux | it can just check if it fails to open or not |
| 02:09.30 | Gnurdux | try opening the file, and see if it succeeds |
| 02:09.33 | blast007 | still not the best solution |
| 02:09.38 | Gnurdux | yes it is |
| 02:09.49 | Gnurdux | then you dont need a seperate conf |
| 02:10.02 | blast007 | /choosemap /etc/passwd |
| 02:10.04 | blast007 | ;) |
| 02:10.04 | Gnurdux | so two arguments: filename,confdir |
| 02:10.13 | Gnurdux | no, it does a check |
| 02:10.15 | L4m3r | Gnurdux, don't think of something like this as a simple POS you just crap out |
| 02:10.16 | Gnurdux | which is possible |
| 02:10.30 | L4m3r | take your time, do it right. |
| 02:10.47 | blast007 | yeah |
| 02:10.51 | L4m3r | personally I think reading confs is a PITA from a coding standpoint, but it makes for a much better plugin |
| 02:10.56 | Gnurdux | theres a function in the bzflag source called badFilename |
| 02:11.01 | blast007 | this conf wouldn't even have to be details |
| 02:11.04 | blast007 | detailed* |
| 02:11.12 | blast007 | just one config name per line |
| 02:11.16 | Gnurdux | L4m3r, why not have all of the server confs in a dir |
| 02:11.28 | Gnurdux | and only let you read them from that dir |
| 02:11.32 | Gnurdux | like my lame themes plugin |
| 02:11.40 | Gnurdux | which also checks to make sure that the filenames are valid |
| 02:11.41 | Mr_Molez | i would like to be able to use different dirs ;) |
| 02:11.51 | Gnurdux | oh ok |
| 02:11.55 | Gnurdux | then a conf it is i guess |
| 02:11.56 | L4m3r | ^^^case and point |
| 02:12.06 | blast007 | Gnurdux: or what if I want to run two server instances, each of which have a shared amounts of maps, and each with unique maps |
| 02:12.09 | Mr_Molez | cuz i have my servers all nicely layed out in different dirs |
| 02:12.26 | Gnurdux | ok |
| 02:12.46 | blast007 | it really won't be too hard to do a config file for this |
| 02:12.58 | Gnurdux | it could just use quotes |
| 02:13.10 | Gnurdux | yes it wouldnt |
| 02:13.20 | Gnurdux | would it need comment support? |
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| 02:14.50 | Gnurdux | i guess all it needs to do is chop off after the #, then call the built in tokenize function |
| 02:15.27 | Gnurdux | so like a line might look like: |
| 02:15.47 | Mr_Molez | Gnurdux: make it and we'll see how good it is :D |
| 02:15.57 | Gnurdux | hixMap /home/molez/hix/hix.conf # HiX map |
| 02:16.28 | L4m3r | read up on file I/O, it's pretty easy. |
| 02:16.51 | Gnurdux | i know file I/O |
| 02:17.17 | L4m3r | well, no problem then :P |
| 02:19.25 | Gnurdux | shoudl it read the conf when loaded, or when /confchange is run? |
| 02:20.05 | Mr_Molez | how would it know the port etc to run on if its run after ? |
| 02:20.23 | Gnurdux | Mr_Molez, thats all the script |
| 02:20.31 | Mr_Molez | oo |
| 02:27.49 | Gnurdux | im using the tokenize function; should the delimeters be " \t" |
| 02:27.50 | Gnurdux | ? |
| 02:30.18 | Gnurdux | lol |
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| 02:33.33 | Mr_Molez | uhoh |
| 02:41.28 | JeffM2501 | I kinda get the impression that this new machine may run a "little" hot |
| 02:43.19 | JeffM2501 | when this is the fan |
| 02:43.20 | JeffM2501 | http://jeffm.bakadigital.com/images/phone/DSC00007.JPG |
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| 02:47.53 | Mr_Molez | Gnurdux: done yet ? |
| 02:48.08 | Gnurdux | i just got a bunch of errors |
| 02:48.17 | Mr_Molez | O |
| 02:49.58 | Gnurdux | cya tomorrow |
| 02:50.02 | Gnurdux | it should be done by rhen |
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| 02:54.33 | Gnurdux | Mr_Molez, ok i have a preliminary version |
| 02:54.37 | Gnurdux | test time! |
| 02:54.42 | Mr_Molez | sweet !¬ |
| 02:54.45 | Mr_Molez | u rule |
| 02:54.52 | Mr_Molez | where can i get it :P |
| 02:58.19 | Gnurdux | yay it works! |
| 02:58.25 | Gnurdux | umm |
| 02:58.26 | Mr_Molez | omg cool ! |
| 02:58.34 | Gnurdux | well what OS are you on? |
| 02:58.36 | Mr_Molez | where where i wanna see |
| 02:58.43 | Mr_Molez | my server uses debian |
| 02:58.47 | Gnurdux | i dont have the scripty made up yet |
| 02:58.55 | Gnurdux | and thats not my job |
| 02:58.57 | Gnurdux | thats yours |
| 02:59.01 | Gnurdux | ill send you the .so ok? |
| 02:59.01 | Mr_Molez | uhhh... |
| 02:59.04 | Mr_Molez | k |
| 02:59.22 | Gnurdux | so it makes a new command: |
| 02:59.27 | Gnurdux | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:59.35 | Mr_Molez | ok |
| 02:59.40 | Gnurdux | when you load it, it takes 2 arguments: |
| 03:00.01 | Mr_Molez | can i have the source code after i have tested it |
| 03:00.03 | Gnurdux | -loadplugin ./confChange.so,outputFile,confFile |
| 03:00.04 | Gnurdux | sure |
| 03:00.20 | Mr_Molez | outputfile ? |
| 03:00.24 | Gnurdux | ok, to use /changeconf, you need the CHANGECONF perm |
| 03:00.25 | Gnurdux | yes |
| 03:00.44 | Gnurdux | wait |
| 03:00.49 | Gnurdux | the permission is confChange |
| 03:00.53 | Mr_Molez | ok |
| 03:00.59 | Gnurdux | conffile looks like: |
| 03:01.10 | Mr_Molez | heh |
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| 04:01.25 | nick125 | grr |
| 04:01.40 | nick125 | i get tired of having to babysit 5 year olds on bzflag.. |
| 04:01.51 | BenUrban | then don't |
| 04:02.06 | DTRemenak | that's what /ban is for |
| 04:03.50 | nick125 | /ban == good |
| 04:07.04 | nick125 | omg |
| 04:07.11 | nick125 | this guy thinks I made it so he can't kill |
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| 04:12.33 | nick125 | finally |
| 04:12.45 | nick125 | Kicking Player moorederodeo [4] Out of map bounds at position (74.20,-217.54,-18.00) |
| 04:12.48 | nick125 | uhh.. |
| 04:13.12 | a-delusion | he lagged out, that's all |
| 04:13.58 | nick125 | aah, just checking to make sure.. |
| 04:14.00 | nick125 | Player Antiworld! [2] shot flag mismatch TH NJ |
| 04:15.58 | a-delusion | he had theif, stole a no jumping flag, then got a shot off, before the server knew the flag had been stolen |
| 04:16.25 | nick125 | I see a bunch of those from this player |
| 04:16.30 | a-delusion | you can completely ig nore that, as long as the first flag is TH |
| 04:16.40 | a-delusion | he lags |
| 04:17.08 | nick125 | aah..I just wanted to make sure.. |
| 04:17.23 | nick125 | It's not like he's playing on my server anymroe..but.. |
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| 05:13.29 | nick125 | I want bzflag for palm os..that would be cool |
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| 06:04.09 | JeffM_ | ahh the joy of installing copies of windows |
| 06:04.35 | A_Meteorite | heh |
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| 06:41.34 | cosmos_ | bzflag for apple // |
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| 13:39.34 | LePoulpe303 | congrats Mr_Molez !! :) |
| 13:39.57 | Mr_Molez | no wait 7 hours :-S |
| 13:40.01 | LePoulpe303 | yeah |
| 13:40.02 | Mr_Molez | wiw |
| 13:40.06 | Mr_Molez | wow |
| 13:40.11 | Mr_Molez | how u been LePoulpe303 ! |
| 13:40.12 | LePoulpe303 | (08:42:27) cosmos |
| 13:40.35 | LePoulpe303 | fine, ty , and u senor molez ? |
| 13:41.20 | Mr_Molez | not bad |
| 13:41.39 | Mr_Molez | LePoulpe303: you dont have any php coding skills by any chance do you |
| 13:42.24 | LePoulpe303 | nope sry :( |
| 13:42.32 | Mr_Molez | hehe okies :P |
| 13:43.07 | SportChick | ~seen menotume |
| 13:43.15 | ibot | menotume is currently on #silvercat #bzflag #kierra. Has said a total of 430 messages. Is idling for 1d 14h 32m 7s, last said: 'hmm'. |
| 13:46.05 | Mr_Molez | LePoulpe303: have you seen the new league? http://openleague.org |
| 13:46.48 | Mr_Molez | there is still 1 feature in development, brad is being nice enough to put on a feature to show where players from each team are playing. To make it easy to find matches |
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| 13:49.13 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 13:49.31 | CBG | my dog is nuts. it's raining so he cowers in the corner, whining and occasionally barking. |
| 14:15.44 | learner | maybe he's the smart one and you're nuts |
| 14:16.36 | JBdiGriz | On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog. |
| 14:18.14 | Mr_Molez | brlcad: uhh omg i didn't know u were learner :-S |
| 14:18.50 | brad | lol |
| 14:19.05 | Mr_Molez | i swear i need to pay more attention to things |
| 14:19.50 | brlcad | who said I was? |
| 14:20.19 | Mr_Molez | my imaginary friend |
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| 14:28.25 | Mr_Molez | Death_Barrel: eww |
| 14:31.33 | Death_Barrel | Mr_Molez: yum |
| 14:33.01 | Death_Barrel | ummm i love guinness beer, it taste like coffee, so its cool to drink it in the morning |
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| 16:23.40 | JeffM2501 | yay for bios updates |
| 16:23.50 | TheRedBaron | ~yay |
| 16:23.52 | ibot | Yipee! |
| 16:24.51 | SportChick | hehe |
| 16:25.03 | *** join/#bzflag |zongo| (n=zongo@4-133.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 16:25.47 | SportChick | |zongo|: hiya |
| 16:26.01 | |zongo| | hiya |
| 16:26.33 | SportChick | |zongo|: not sure if you've seen this yet, but do you mind reading it and commenting? http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=7983 |
| 16:27.05 | |zongo| | SportChick, gonna read it in a while and comment it |
| 16:27.17 | SportChick | |zongo|: thanks! :) |
| 16:27.23 | SportChick | ~|zongo|++ |
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| 16:56.34 | JeffM2501 | yay for intel sucking the big one |
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| 16:56.37 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 16:58.15 | JeffM2501 | I knew that geting an intel system and an ATI chipset was going to be nothin but pain |
| 17:02.05 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportyGal] by ChanServ |
| 17:02.25 | |zongo| | SportyGal, i read it, it's very interesting (i see my ideas in there ;) ) |
| 17:03.05 | bryjen | ~punish JeffM2501 |
| 17:03.07 | ibot | ACTION forces JeffM2501 to install and use Windows |
| 17:03.14 | |zongo| | i totally agree with mistake, gonna post it, if u can make such a league with these ladder it would be excellent |
| 17:03.22 | bryjen | hmm, already doing that too |
| 17:03.33 | SportyGal | |zongo|: great - would you mind explaining how ELO is used in 1v1 in your post? |
| 17:03.40 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, I wish I could |
| 17:03.46 | JeffM2501 | no I can't install any OS on it |
| 17:03.54 | |zongo| | SportyGal, I think it's no use |
| 17:04.05 | SportyGal | |zongo|: ok, but explain that in your post :) |
| 17:04.07 | bryjen | you're using it elsewhere though |
| 17:04.08 | |zongo| | as mistake pointed out, zelo is only a minor thing |
| 17:04.12 | TheRedBaron | |zongo|: what about elo? |
| 17:04.15 | TheRedBaron | err |
| 17:04.18 | TheRedBaron | Zelo |
| 17:04.29 | JeffM2501 | I wanted to put 32bit windows, 64bit windows, and 64 bit linux on it |
| 17:04.33 | JeffM2501 | and use it for builds |
| 17:04.52 | |zongo| | it was only intended to even up things |
| 17:05.17 | JeffM2501 | but my mistake was to assume that an intel motherboard would you know... boot |
| 17:05.47 | |zongo| | if a low-ranked player loses 10-9 to a high-ranked player he did great job and thus increases her zelo score |
| 17:06.24 | |zongo| | SportyGal, i dont wanna explain these things, i dont have time (and i dont wanna) to write a long post |
| 17:06.37 | SportyGal | |zongo|: please? :) |
| 17:06.45 | |zongo| | nah, sincerely |
| 17:06.55 | SportyGal | |zongo|: pretty please? :) |
| 17:06.58 | |zongo| | people can go to 1vs1 main page and read the rules |
| 17:07.24 | |zongo| | plus, zelo scoring is almost the same as the one of the league |
| 17:07.38 | SportyGal | |zongo|: if you recall correctly, I did many months ago and then asked you to explain it to be, because I didn't understand zelo even then |
| 17:07.54 | |zongo| | peeps never asked about ranking in the league, and it's the same thing |
| 17:08.12 | |zongo| | SportyGal, i remember |
| 17:08.36 | |zongo| | but i dont see the point in explaining zelo there while it's not going to be used anyways |
| 17:09.10 | SportyGal | |zongo|: I guess what I'd like to see you post - is why it shouldn't be used or isn't necessary - not really an explanation of how it works |
| 17:09.42 | |zongo| | that's different, but mistake already said it very well |
| 17:09.58 | |zongo| | i will only confirm his sayings anyways |
| 17:10.12 | |zongo| | and im gonna do that, but im not gonna explain the thing |
| 17:10.33 | SportyGal | |zongo|: ok, well, any input is appreciated |
| 17:10.50 | Mr_Molez | |zongo|: nice to see you joined the open league ;) |
| 17:11.25 | |zongo| | SportyGal, fine i was going to answer anyways coz the ideas are good and suit perfectly the ctf league |
| 17:11.30 | |zongo| | Mr_Molez, thx :P |
| 17:12.07 | Mr_Molez | true |
| 17:12.24 | JeffM2501 | or just not enough players |
| 17:13.24 | |zongo| | this is a different question JeffM2501 |
| 17:13.35 | JeffM2501 | no, just a difrent part |
| 17:13.45 | JeffM2501 | for the number of players active, you have too many leagues |
| 17:13.57 | JeffM2501 | that makes 2 solutions |
| 17:13.59 | |zongo| | thats what im saying |
| 17:14.20 | JeffM2501 | so you say, remove leagues, I say get more players ;) |
| 17:14.28 | |zongo| | we can work out one solution, devs and others can try to advertise more for bz |
| 17:14.40 | JeffM2501 | why do devs have to advertise? |
| 17:14.53 | JeffM2501 | it's not enought that we put our spare time into working on it? |
| 17:15.26 | |zongo| | i didnt intended in that way |
| 17:15.28 | Mr_Molez | jeff is in his arguementative mood again |
| 17:15.50 | |zongo| | devs can advertise by making the game more attractive for other persons thats all |
| 17:16.04 | |zongo| | thats what i meant |
| 17:16.14 | |zongo| | anyway i dont wanna argue now |
| 17:16.25 | |zongo| | gonna fix smthing for supper |
| 17:16.39 | Mr_Molez | |zongo|: cu zongo |
| 17:16.48 | |zongo| | later folks |
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| 17:17.56 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 17:18.02 | amcnabb | I'm having a weird problem, and I'm not sure if it's a common one. |
| 17:18.33 | amcnabb | When I start a server and try to join to it, I can't download the world. |
| 17:18.58 | JeffM2501 | wasn't arguing, just making a statement that some people forget |
| 17:19.07 | JeffM2501 | everyone could do more to advertise |
| 17:19.13 | amcnabb | It gives "Error unpacking world database." |
| 17:19.20 | JeffM2501 | what OS and machine? |
| 17:19.22 | TheRedBaron | if you build it, they will come :) |
| 17:19.28 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, no, no they won't |
| 17:19.37 | amcnabb | Debian, AMD64. |
| 17:19.38 | TheRedBaron | oh? |
| 17:19.52 | JeffM2501 | amcnabb, build from source, or get the 2.0.8 package |
| 17:19.59 | JeffM2501 | it'll be in testing |
| 17:20.02 | amcnabb | I built 2.0.8 from source. |
| 17:20.03 | JeffM2501 | or unstable |
| 17:20.06 | JeffM2501 | amcnabb, oh |
| 17:20.10 | JeffM2501 | and you still get the problem |
| 17:20.11 | JeffM2501 | wierd |
| 17:20.21 | amcnabb | I'm running: |
| 17:20.23 | JeffM2501 | that problem is often with the 2.0.4 debian package |
| 17:20.24 | amcnabb | BZFlag client 2.0.8.20060518-MAINT-linux-gnu-SDL (protocol 0026) http://BZFlag.org/ |
| 17:20.30 | JeffM2501 | wierd |
| 17:20.48 | amcnabb | That's what I was thinking. |
| 17:20.50 | JeffM2501 | where did you get the soruce? from the tarball |
| 17:20.55 | amcnabb | Yes. |
| 17:21.01 | JeffM2501 | I don't know then |
| 17:21.16 | amcnabb | What was the problem with 2.0.4? |
| 17:21.23 | amcnabb | In case it's related. |
| 17:21.33 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, even if "I build it" that dosn't make everyone see it, 99.999% of the world will go along and not even know it exists. |
| 17:21.38 | JeffM2501 | amcnabb, bad build |
| 17:22.02 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, you have to push the thing, get it out in view of the people who would play it |
| 17:22.23 | JeffM2501 | and I don't just mean a post on /. where people will laugh at it |
| 17:22.50 | JeffM2501 | the game needs a lot of work before that day tho |
| 17:23.02 | JeffM2501 | it's not easy or intutive for new users |
| 17:24.40 | TheRedBaron | whats not easy or intuitive about it? |
| 17:24.57 | JeffM2501 | how to play, what server to join, how to register, etc.... |
| 17:25.00 | TheRedBaron | the interface? |
| 17:25.05 | TheRedBaron | or the actually game modes? |
| 17:25.07 | JeffM2501 | simple concepts like "don't team kill" |
| 17:25.09 | JeffM2501 | all of them |
| 17:25.14 | JeffM2501 | our instructions are minimal |
| 17:25.16 | JeffM2501 | and hidden |
| 17:25.29 | TheRedBaron | thats not a coding problem is it? |
| 17:25.33 | JeffM2501 | I mean we have a mode called "free for all" when it's a freaking team game |
| 17:25.37 | TheRedBaron | basically, we need a better readme? |
| 17:25.45 | JeffM2501 | noone reads the readme |
| 17:25.48 | JeffM2501 | the game should help |
| 17:25.52 | JeffM2501 | look at modern games |
| 17:25.54 | JeffM2501 | they have tutorials |
| 17:26.04 | JeffM2501 | they know it's the first run and help the user out |
| 17:26.06 | TheRedBaron | so there is a difference between readme and tutorials? |
| 17:26.08 | JeffM2501 | that's what is expected |
| 17:26.11 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, yeah |
| 17:26.21 | JeffM2501 | we force you to go thru the tutorials ;) |
| 17:26.41 | JeffM2501 | there is just a lot more we can do to add some spit and polish to the game |
| 17:26.44 | TheRedBaron | "training missions" |
| 17:26.50 | TheRedBaron | is that what you mean? |
| 17:26.57 | JeffM2501 | bzflag is baicly an ugly tech demo compared to other games |
| 17:27.05 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, yes kinda |
| 17:27.24 | JeffM2501 | I would make them join a training server that runs them thru a tutorial for a game mode |
| 17:27.45 | JeffM2501 | when they do that, there global account is flaged as having completed it, and then you list the servers of that game mode for them |
| 17:28.04 | JeffM2501 | I mean look at our main menu, it has a cursor, but you can't click on anything |
| 17:28.08 | JeffM2501 | how intutive is that? |
| 17:28.24 | cosmos | its very 1993 intiuitive! |
| 17:28.27 | JeffM2501 | bzflag was made by unix users, for unix users, so it assumes people read ;) |
| 17:28.49 | TheRedBaron | the only thing i think you really need |
| 17:28.53 | TheRedBaron | is a list of what keys do what |
| 17:29.01 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, and what to do |
| 17:29.06 | TheRedBaron | at least add the keymapping in the readme |
| 17:29.13 | JeffM2501 | you have played the game so long, you don't know what it's like to be a noob ;) |
| 17:29.19 | JeffM2501 | noone will read the readme |
| 17:29.33 | TheRedBaron | actually I do remember it took me forever to find the freakin tab button :) |
| 17:29.51 | TheRedBaron | the usual case of pressing each key on the keyboard tactic wasn't working |
| 17:30.00 | TheRedBaron | because i didn't include tab |
| 17:30.01 | JeffM2501 | if we had a live tutorial that told you how to move, shoot, jump, and all that, then it would be fun to learn |
| 17:30.15 | JeffM2501 | yes, I would explain the functions, not the keys |
| 17:30.20 | cosmos | we got out first bzflag copy with a shipment of sgi indys, heck that delayed the project by 2 days :) |
| 17:30.21 | JeffM2501 | and tell them the key with the funcion |
| 17:30.23 | JeffM2501 | not just the keys |
| 17:30.30 | JeffM2501 | cus some functions are not simple keys |
| 17:30.32 | JeffM2501 | like OO |
| 17:30.35 | TheRedBaron | right, i need to be more specific |
| 17:30.35 | JeffM2501 | or PZ |
| 17:30.49 | JeffM2501 | or the fact that badflags may or may not time out |
| 17:31.26 | JeffM2501 | the SGI people loved bzflag because it was one of the few games for the machines, and everyone loves networked games ;) |
| 17:31.48 | JeffM2501 | but in reality we have grown very little in 13 years |
| 17:32.04 | JeffM2501 | I'd like 2.2 to be our polish release |
| 17:32.12 | JeffM2501 | the one you'd like to show to reviewers |
| 17:32.22 | JeffM2501 | the one slashdot won't laugh at |
| 17:33.00 | JeffM2501 | but I don't know what the maintainer's goals are |
| 17:33.02 | JeffM2501 | if any |
| 17:33.40 | Mr_Molez | lol |
| 17:33.51 | Mr_Molez | slashdot laughed at bzflag ? |
| 17:33.55 | JeffM2501 | many times |
| 17:34.00 | Mr_Molez | sweet |
| 17:34.04 | JeffM2501 | they made the simple comparisons to other games |
| 17:34.12 | JeffM2501 | and it falls short |
| 17:34.17 | JeffM2501 | understandably |
| 17:34.20 | TheRedBaron | JeffM2501: me, and a few players are "putting" together a manual |
| 17:34.30 | TheRedBaron | acutally, its a wiki |
| 17:34.34 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, that's good but that's just a patch for a biger problem ;) |
| 17:34.38 | TheRedBaron | but its geared more to the ducati league |
| 17:34.50 | JeffM2501 | a wiki like that is perfect for leauge play |
| 17:35.02 | JeffM2501 | cus that's an advanced feature that people will use after they master the basiscs |
| 17:35.09 | JeffM2501 | the game should help you learn the basiscs |
| 17:35.28 | JeffM2501 | I'd love to push bz to all the webcomics and stuff after it gets cleaned up |
| 17:35.42 | JeffM2501 | I think that could add a lot of good players, to fill out the vast server fields |
| 17:35.47 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: any word from duchtrai? or the shellshock site? |
| 17:36.03 | JeffM2501 | I have an old copy of it |
| 17:36.10 | JeffM2501 | somewhere |
| 17:36.20 | TheRedBaron | a perfect beginner's manual |
| 17:36.26 | TheRedBaron | had some simple tactics |
| 17:36.33 | TheRedBaron | explained the flags |
| 17:36.44 | JeffM2501 | why make them go to a website before they even try the game? |
| 17:37.11 | TheRedBaron | I didn't mean to imply sending them to a website - |
| 17:37.20 | Mr_Molez | ducati just aint a popular enough map to survive on its own anymore :P |
| 17:37.23 | TheRedBaron | but rather using the info/content |
| 17:37.31 | TheRedBaron | from the website |
| 17:37.33 | JeffM2501 | sure you could use that info to make a tutorial |
| 17:37.53 | JeffM2501 | but a lot of hooks have to go in before a tutorial server can be made |
| 17:38.14 | JeffM2501 | one thing I'm doing is making it so the server can tell the client to play an MP3/Ogg stream |
| 17:38.17 | TheRedBaron | a tutorial server is out of my knowledge/capabilities |
| 17:38.17 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=Chris@s122-222.resnet.ucla.edu) |
| 17:38.19 | JeffM2501 | then we can do voice overs :) |
| 17:38.32 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: oh nice ! |
| 17:38.34 | TheRedBaron | but a simple tutorial, should I make myself find the time, i could write |
| 17:38.39 | Mr_Molez | ill be able to force players to listen to crappy music |
| 17:39.06 | JeffM2501 | that, and the ability to have the server keep motion in a zone, and send over object statuses ( like drive thru ) and I think we could make one |
| 17:39.14 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, they can turn it off on the client |
| 17:39.26 | Mr_Molez | :D |
| 17:39.40 | JeffM2501 | or overide it with there own stream, or local files |
| 17:39.41 | JeffM2501 | if I do it all |
| 17:39.59 | JeffM2501 | tho I don't know how many builds would be made with support for it |
| 17:40.12 | amcnabb | JeffM2501, I found some IRC logs, etc. related to the problem I'm having. |
| 17:40.31 | amcnabb | Here's the weird thing: unlike these other people, I can connect to other servers out there, just not my own. |
| 17:40.37 | JeffM2501 | wierd |
| 17:41.03 | JeffM2501 | it's probably going to take some debuging to figureout |
| 17:41.09 | amcnabb | yeah |
| 17:42.03 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, my pefect "tutorial" would be a server or set of servers that when you come in, spawns you in a locked off space, tells you how to do simple things, then repops you out in a common area |
| 17:42.11 | JeffM2501 | where you can play with others |
| 17:42.24 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 17:42.25 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 17:42.36 | JeffM2501 | then you are marked as finishing it when you have played for a bit, and can go on to the real servers |
| 17:42.45 | JeffM2501 | or stay and play in the common area |
| 17:43.00 | JeffM2501 | and if there arn't enough people, spawn some smart server side bots |
| 17:43.17 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@cpc4-stme1-0-0-cust103.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 17:43.43 | JeffM2501 | it dosnt' even have to go thru all the flags |
| 17:43.45 | TheRedBaron | if you ask me, The single biggest step you could do |
| 17:43.54 | TheRedBaron | is the ability to be able to register a callsign from Bzflag |
| 17:44.00 | JeffM2501 | that is needed for sure |
| 17:44.02 | TheRedBaron | and not even have to go to http://my.bzflag.org |
| 17:44.12 | JeffM2501 | I want there to be 3 places to register |
| 17:44.15 | amcnabb | JeffM2501: When I use -d, the client gives "WorldBuilder::unpack() overrun" |
| 17:44.18 | JeffM2501 | 1) when you install, it'll ask you |
| 17:44.30 | JeffM2501 | amcnabb, not that kind of debuging, like gdb real code debugin |
| 17:44.37 | amcnabb | I know |
| 17:44.46 | JeffM2501 | you'll have to see what is packed wrong |
| 17:44.49 | amcnabb | But I was wondering if that's useful feedback. |
| 17:44.49 | amcnabb | ok |
| 17:44.52 | JeffM2501 | not really |
| 17:45.23 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, 2) run the game and arnt' reged, or join a server that needs reg and arn't reged. |
| 17:45.32 | JeffM2501 | 3) the www.bzflag.org mainpage |
| 17:46.01 | JeffM2501 | that will get rid of the registration confusion |
| 17:46.22 | JeffM2501 | then you just have to teach them how to play :) |
| 17:46.32 | JeffM2501 | I mean the concept of a rogue is not even intutive |
| 17:46.38 | TheRedBaron | true |
| 17:46.42 | JeffM2501 | if you just hop in and play |
| 17:46.45 | TheRedBaron | I guess I can't relate |
| 17:47.01 | TheRedBaron | because with every other FPS i've played, I simply install, find a server, and learn as I go |
| 17:47.03 | JeffM2501 | most people will try to relate bzflag to a FPS game |
| 17:47.11 | TheRedBaron | which is pretty much how I learn |
| 17:47.29 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, how many other FPS games do you play? |
| 17:47.36 | TheRedBaron | I always get annoyed at games which mandate tutorials |
| 17:47.39 | TheRedBaron | goodness... |
| 17:47.47 | CBG | 1 is too many. :P |
| 17:47.48 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, true, but you can't realy say " you can't play cus you suck" |
| 17:47.49 | JeffM2501 | ;) |
| 17:47.59 | CBG | JeffM2501: oh, really? bummer |
| 17:48.03 | JBdiGriz | JeffM2501: Why not? :D |
| 17:48.03 | JeffM2501 | sadly no |
| 17:48.06 | CBG | that's why people don't like me. |
| 17:48.16 | JeffM2501 | not realy an "open" stance |
| 17:48.35 | JeffM2501 | we can make the game try to help them be better tho |
| 17:48.41 | TheRedBaron | BF 1942, BF2, Battlezone, Outlaws, Halo, quake, Doom, Castle wolfenstien, cube - are the ones that come to mind right away |
| 17:48.49 | JeffM2501 | oh, old games |
| 17:48.51 | CBG | Hmm, is "-configdir" out-of-date now? |
| 17:48.59 | JeffM2501 | CBG, shodn't be |
| 17:49.06 | TheRedBaron | I have an "old" computer :) |
| 17:49.18 | CBG | I get "Unknown option -configdir." when trying to define the directory my alternative config is in... |
| 17:49.21 | TheRedBaron | and alot of other games i can't currently remember |
| 17:49.25 | TheRedBaron | Far Cry |
| 17:49.27 | TheRedBaron | Serious Sam |
| 17:49.32 | JeffM2501 | halo mandated that you go thru a "tutorial" in the single player |
| 17:49.34 | JeffM2501 | yeah old games |
| 17:49.41 | JBdiGriz | Let's go for an "elite" stance. To play this game, you must be old enough to read, and leave JeffM2501 alone. |
| 17:49.49 | L4m3r | Half-life had the neat hazard course :) |
| 17:49.50 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 17:49.54 | TheRedBaron | FEAR didn't like my computer :( |
| 17:50.07 | JeffM2501 | not if you have a panzy card |
| 17:50.10 | JeffM2501 | fear rocks |
| 17:50.22 | JeffM2501 | but all those games have "tutorials" worked into there single players games |
| 17:50.24 | CBG | Nothing beats BZFlag overall. |
| 17:50.39 | CBG | Sure, some games have flashy graphics, etc, but at the end of the day, BZFlag still wins. |
| 17:50.42 | JeffM2501 | CBG, in your opinion, in others, many things do |
| 17:50.44 | TheRedBaron | add "America's army" |
| 17:50.53 | JeffM2501 | AA has training dosn't it? |
| 17:50.54 | TheRedBaron | which does mandate a tutorial :( |
| 17:50.58 | TheRedBaron | yes mandatory |
| 17:51.04 | CBG | JeffM2501: It's a fact!!! :P |
| 17:51.06 | JeffM2501 | cus they don't have single player |
| 17:51.09 | L4m3r | yeah, free online multiplayer games that don't suck are few and far in between |
| 17:51.12 | JeffM2501 | CBG, geta life |
| 17:51.17 | CBG | No thanks. |
| 17:51.25 | L4m3r | or at least ones that aren't RPG/strat... |
| 17:51.27 | JBdiGriz | AA was too complex for me to spend the time on it. |
| 17:51.35 | CBG | Can someone help me with -configdir please? |
| 17:51.53 | CBG | This should all be in #bzchat anyway, if we wanna be picky. :P |
| 17:52.05 | JeffM2501 | we were talking about what games had multiplayer but no single the other day |
| 17:52.08 | JeffM2501 | there arn't many |
| 17:52.18 | JeffM2501 | and those are the ones that have to "force" a tutorial |
| 17:52.25 | TheRedBaron | JBdiGriz: did you actually get to the online playing part? |
| 17:52.31 | JeffM2501 | the others can work it into the single player game, and make it not seem so "forced" |
| 17:52.38 | L4m3r | doing a single-player bzflag would be simple enough |
| 17:52.45 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, that's what probably pisses you off, the fact that it seems forced. |
| 17:52.51 | TheRedBaron | yup |
| 17:52.53 | JBdiGriz | I worked through a couple of the missions, and just got tired of the tutorial. |
| 17:52.59 | JeffM2501 | or do you skip the single player parts too? |
| 17:53.00 | TheRedBaron | I like to be self-taught |
| 17:53.12 | JeffM2501 | do you do the single, then jump online? |
| 17:53.18 | JeffM2501 | or just jump online right off the bat? |
| 17:53.27 | TheRedBaron | single and then jump online usually |
| 17:53.32 | L4m3r | It would be simple enough to set up a tutorial server and have a plug-in that talks to it |
| 17:53.38 | JeffM2501 | ok, so then you arn't realy learning on your own |
| 17:53.44 | JeffM2501 | you are leting the single player game teach you |
| 17:53.52 | TheRedBaron | eh? |
| 17:53.54 | JeffM2501 | and tell you a story ;) |
| 17:54.04 | TheRedBaron | I play for the story :) |
| 17:54.07 | L4m3r | so a major public server could require one to finish the course before being allowed to play... |
| 17:54.09 | JeffM2501 | every single player games start off with somone explaining the basics of movement |
| 17:54.17 | JeffM2501 | it's just pushed into the story so you don't see it :) |
| 17:54.20 | CBG | I never completed any tutorial in any game, always more fun to jump right in and spend 2 hours on level/mission #1. |
| 17:54.25 | JeffM2501 | we don't have a story to hide behind |
| 17:54.25 | TheRedBaron | BF2 and BF1942 don't |
| 17:54.34 | JeffM2501 | true, those are mostly online type games |
| 17:54.35 | TheRedBaron | halo doesn't either |
| 17:54.40 | JeffM2501 | yes halo does |
| 17:54.44 | TheRedBaron | for PC? |
| 17:54.46 | JeffM2501 | remember the part when you wake up |
| 17:54.46 | TheRedBaron | or xbox? |
| 17:54.46 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 17:54.49 | JeffM2501 | bothy |
| 17:54.56 | JeffM2501 | they tell you to move and look |
| 17:54.57 | TheRedBaron | I remember that part, I was pissed |
| 17:54.59 | TheRedBaron | no gun! |
| 17:55.08 | JeffM2501 | but it was story ;) |
| 17:55.27 | TheRedBaron | kinda |
| 17:55.27 | JeffM2501 | if you work it into the story, it's easyer to swallow ;) |
| 17:55.45 | JeffM2501 | and you had cortana in your head to tell you what to do |
| 17:55.48 | TheRedBaron | what I'm talking about, is tutorials that explain what movements do what, etc etc |
| 17:55.48 | JeffM2501 | like a voice over ;) |
| 17:55.54 | brlcad | TheRedBaron: no word, feel free to keep pinging him please :) |
| 17:56.00 | JeffM2501 | yeah, you should let people skip the basics |
| 17:56.02 | JeffM2501 | or even all of them |
| 17:56.05 | TheRedBaron | cortana didn't tell me to press tab to switch guns |
| 17:56.07 | JeffM2501 | but that dosnt' mean NOT have them |
| 17:56.21 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, no, the inteface did ;) |
| 17:56.27 | TheRedBaron | I'm just defending myself here now, that I prefer to be self-taught. |
| 17:56.29 | JeffM2501 | when you stand over a gun |
| 17:56.36 | TheRedBaron | no no |
| 17:56.39 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, and I'm saying it's an illusion ;) |
| 17:56.43 | TheRedBaron | yea |
| 17:56.48 | TheRedBaron | stop shattering my illusion |
| 17:56.49 | JeffM2501 | but belive what you want |
| 17:56.55 | TheRedBaron | I'm happily dissillusioned :) |
| 17:56.56 | JeffM2501 | I could add a story to bzflag |
| 17:57.04 | TheRedBaron | and its E to trade guns |
| 17:57.10 | TheRedBaron | and tab to swap the guns in your inventory |
| 17:57.14 | TheRedBaron | but aside from that |
| 17:57.15 | JeffM2501 | oh |
| 17:57.16 | brlcad | Mr_Molez: BS, it's never lost any popularity really .. only difference is that there are more players overall |
| 17:57.18 | JeffM2501 | dude PC sucks then |
| 17:57.32 | TheRedBaron | halo, and the other games I referenced use a basic keypattern |
| 17:57.36 | TheRedBaron | wasd |
| 17:57.38 | JeffM2501 | most do yes |
| 17:57.42 | TheRedBaron | e is generic for action |
| 17:57.48 | JeffM2501 | movement in bzflag isn't realy standard |
| 17:57.52 | TheRedBaron | exactly |
| 17:57.58 | JeffM2501 | so it may be benifical to show noobs how to move |
| 17:58.16 | L4m3r | I think the default controls could use a bit of work also *cough* |
| 17:58.21 | TheRedBaron | besides, keyboard mouse interface is sooo much better than a dinky gamepad with bizarre little joysticks :D |
| 17:58.34 | L4m3r | fire and jump shouldn't be at opposite ends of the keyboard :| |
| 17:58.47 | TheRedBaron | brb |
| 17:58.47 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, yes, the input could use a polish pass |
| 17:58.59 | brlcad | JeffM2501: you can say "you can't play on these servers cus you suck" ;) subspace newbie portals, etc |
| 17:59.01 | JeffM2501 | everything shoudl be looked at and made to fit a consistent set of rules |
| 17:59.12 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, that's what I have been describing ;) |
| 17:59.32 | brlcad | yay, all caught up with log |
| 17:59.36 | JBdiGriz | JeffM2501: but you claim that's not an "open" stance |
| 18:00.12 | L4m3r | lol@bryjen |
| 18:00.16 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, to just outright blow people out, yes |
| 18:00.29 | brlcad | the tab was a horrible default binding for jump |
| 18:00.29 | JeffM2501 | to show them a tutorial, and let them play, then let them, that is helping and open |
| 18:00.44 | L4m3r | I like space, personally |
| 18:00.47 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, I'm trying to find a middle ground |
| 18:00.48 | JBdiGriz | If they can't read, blow them out. We don't need to teach people to read. |
| 18:00.51 | L4m3r | but then I also use z to fire |
| 18:01.04 | brlcad | and the whole "i want to jump while i'm talking" is a lame reason to keep it that way imo :) |
| 18:01.05 | L4m3r | and a/s/d/q for other stuff |
| 18:01.09 | bryjen | silly keyboarders. left hand = radar keys & jump, right hand mouse = fire & drive ;) |
| 18:01.10 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, spken like a true terminal user ;) |
| 18:01.33 | brlcad | use the freaking usual jump key |
| 18:01.39 | JBdiGriz | JeffM2501: Have you ever worked help desk? |
| 18:01.49 | JeffM2501 | yes I did |
| 18:01.50 | JeffM2501 | 5 years |
| 18:01.56 | L4m3r | typing and playing can work in two ways |
| 18:02.03 | L4m3r | Type fast, or type dead. :D |
| 18:02.55 | JBdiGriz | Then you should understand, it's not a terminal user attitude. Help desk has to work with everyone. I don't have to work with everyone. |
| 18:03.35 | JBdiGriz | OTOH, if you want to make sure it works for everyone, be my guest, but don't expect that everyone is going to help you with it. |
| 18:03.40 | JeffM2501 | so you want this game to be your own personal private party |
| 18:03.52 | JeffM2501 | and just screw everyone else who wants to play and dosn't fit into your small world view? |
| 18:04.08 | JeffM2501 | then leave bz as it is |
| 18:04.30 | brlcad | most all games do that to at least some degree |
| 18:04.55 | JeffM2501 | all the modern games I've seen at least want you to try and play them, and try to help out |
| 18:04.59 | JeffM2501 | but then they also cost moeny |
| 18:05.00 | brlcad | if i want an adventure, i won't be playing bz :) |
| 18:05.07 | JBdiGriz | It already is a private party, although not my own. I would rather improve the game along many of the lines discussed, and let you and others work with the rest of the world. |
| 18:05.22 | JBdiGriz | If I want an adventure, I'll read a book. ;) |
| 18:05.24 | brlcad | and if bz tried to be an adventure, I'm sure it'd be horrible |
| 18:05.36 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, umm ok, never asked you to talk to the rest of the world... so don't know where your going here |
| 18:05.53 | JeffM2501 | oh bz would be a horible single player game |
| 18:06.10 | brlcad | not to bad with a good ai |
| 18:06.18 | brlcad | like old 'bz' even |
| 18:06.24 | JBdiGriz | I don't want to deal with a story, and I don't want to deal with a tutorial. |
| 18:06.25 | brlcad | tanks just start charging you down |
| 18:06.33 | JeffM2501 | oh JBdiGriz that was a joke |
| 18:06.37 | JeffM2501 | sorry if it disn't come off that way |
| 18:07.04 | brlcad | i don't think a tutorial can't be "required" but it could be useful for those that want to be taught even what may be completely obvious |
| 18:07.12 | JeffM2501 | no you'd ask em |
| 18:07.18 | brlcad | s/can't/can/ |
| 18:07.20 | JeffM2501 | and let them not do it if they don't |
| 18:07.29 | JeffM2501 | I'd also flag all existing global acocunts as having done it |
| 18:07.42 | brlcad | that shouldn't be a substitute for providing a simple intuitive default interface too though |
| 18:07.46 | JeffM2501 | but I think if it was there, and the default choice, many would use it |
| 18:07.59 | JeffM2501 | oh yeah, the inteface blows for a new user |
| 18:08.08 | JeffM2501 | "I can move the mouse but not click?" |
| 18:08.17 | brlcad | actually, I thought bz's was mostly intuitive and simple when I started |
| 18:08.18 | JeffM2501 | I'm suprised you have any Mac players ;) |
| 18:08.26 | brlcad | the only problem was knowing key binding |
| 18:08.27 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, cus your smart |
| 18:09.03 | JeffM2501 | we just need a pass to look at all the features and see if they make sense to a new users |
| 18:09.10 | JeffM2501 | global registration is a big one that dosn't |
| 18:09.15 | brlcad | the biggest problem was there was this big flashing "Right-click to start" in front of me after I'd picked a server |
| 18:09.25 | JeffM2501 | high end concepts like team killing, and bad flags, don't |
| 18:09.28 | brlcad | with me staring at my laptop's one button |
| 18:09.35 | bryjen | hehe |
| 18:09.36 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, heh |
| 18:09.58 | brlcad | so i try the mac-obvious ctrl-click for right-click, which of course didn't work :) |
| 18:10.07 | JeffM2501 | I hate that it tells you to right click to start, when you can't, cus your global auth isn't done |
| 18:10.07 | brlcad | but that was buggy old days now :) |
| 18:10.45 | JeffM2501 | you use your pinky |
| 18:10.45 | brlcad | very softly |
| 18:10.56 | JBdiGriz | on your right hand. |
| 18:11.10 | JeffM2501 | why isn't it just "click to join?" |
| 18:11.16 | JeffM2501 | it'snot like you can fire |
| 18:11.19 | JeffM2501 | or click anything else |
| 18:11.25 | bryjen | that makes middle-clicking interesting... |
| 18:11.50 | JBdiGriz | bryjen: I have seen many people who were apparently middle-clicking their touch screens. |
| 18:11.57 | TheRedBaron | brlcad: i'm lost, keep pinging who? |
| 18:12.04 | brlcad | dutchrai |
| 18:12.09 | JBdiGriz | usually accompanied by some very salty language. |
| 18:12.42 | TheRedBaron | oh |
| 18:13.24 | TheRedBaron | its not a matter of our own personal world/game and screw everyone else |
| 18:13.39 | TheRedBaron | its that bzflag offers a game structure apart from all other FPS games i've played |
| 18:13.59 | bryjen | yeah, I've gotten stuck in limbo right clicking too many times before auth finishes, so even after it does, I can't spawn :( |
| 18:14.01 | TheRedBaron | the only other game I've played, that has a teamwork structure similar to it, is America's Army |
| 18:14.18 | *** join/#bzflag zongo_ (n=zongo@int-33-72.mobile.unibas.ch) |
| 18:14.19 | TheRedBaron | but bzflag offers more than that |
| 18:14.31 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, play tribes ;) |
| 18:14.44 | JBdiGriz | Given this conversation, cvs must be down. |
| 18:14.53 | TheRedBaron | most mainstream games out there, offer a huge arsenal to blow away your competition, instead of outsmarting them/shooting them |
| 18:15.04 | TheRedBaron | i'm thinking quake, doom and rocket wars on halo :) |
| 18:15.20 | TheRedBaron | or down to your ww2 FPS |
| 18:15.27 | JeffM2501 | TheRedBaron, umm no, just the quake and UT games |
| 18:15.36 | TheRedBaron | grab the gun with the higher rate of fire and bigger clip |
| 18:15.38 | JeffM2501 | halo only let you have 2 |
| 18:15.47 | TheRedBaron | aka thompson and mp40 |
| 18:15.56 | JeffM2501 | it's all about the snipe |
| 18:16.04 | TheRedBaron | and complex pool shot :) |
| 18:16.08 | JeffM2501 | lowest rate of fire, smallest clip |
| 18:16.08 | TheRedBaron | don't forget the complex pool shot |
| 18:16.11 | JeffM2501 | it's how you play it |
| 18:16.19 | JeffM2501 | most people just do the run and gun |
| 18:16.23 | JeffM2501 | just like in bz |
| 18:16.28 | JeffM2501 | pray and spray |
| 18:16.44 | TheRedBaron | 10 shot servers |
| 18:16.49 | TheRedBaron | hence I play 3 shot and 2 shot servers |
| 18:16.51 | JeffM2501 | exactly |
| 18:17.02 | JeffM2501 | so it sounds like you play AA like the "munchkins" play bz ;) |
| 18:17.16 | TheRedBaron | oh no :) |
| 18:17.22 | TheRedBaron | only when I have the saw :) |
| 18:17.30 | JeffM2501 | you set up complex pool shots? |
| 18:17.41 | TheRedBaron | on bz? heck yes :) |
| 18:17.44 | *** join/#bzflag |zongo| (n=zongo@4-133.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 18:17.45 | TheRedBaron | i love my rico |
| 18:18.07 | TheRedBaron | I like playing no jumping :) |
| 18:18.12 | TheRedBaron | so you have to use rico |
| 18:18.36 | TheRedBaron | because you can't turn to face your oppenent, shoot, and jump to escape as he drops a bullet down your barrel |
| 18:18.42 | TheRedBaron | you have to find other ways to hit him |
| 18:18.46 | TheRedBaron | ~bind JeffM2501 |
| 18:18.48 | ibot | ACTION wraps JeffM2501 up with 100 rolls of duct tape |
| 18:19.15 | JeffM2501 | WITH IS MIND!. |
| 18:19.16 | JeffM2501 | ;) |
| 18:19.20 | TheRedBaron | heretic! |
| 18:19.39 | TheRedBaron | you must suffer now |
| 18:19.52 | TheRedBaron | dub.bzflag.org:5154 tonight 8:30 EST :D |
| 18:20.24 | JeffM2501 | going to send me to lions now? |
| 18:20.31 | TheRedBaron | yes |
| 18:20.35 | JeffM2501 | oh dude you'd whup me in bzflag |
| 18:20.39 | TheRedBaron | you must suffer at the hand of the burly cad |
| 18:20.42 | JeffM2501 | anyone would |
| 18:20.47 | bryjen | "you must suffer 6 hours from now" doesn't have the same ring to it, TheRedBaron |
| 18:21.05 | TheRedBaron | bryjen: yea, i was never a good villian :( |
| 18:21.18 | JeffM2501 | everyone knows I can't play ;) |
| 18:21.23 | JeffM2501 | hence why I can see the game as a noob ;0 |
| 18:21.56 | TheRedBaron | yes, but that also means, you don't see the game and its potential, (not trying to be mean or offensive here) |
| 18:22.06 | JeffM2501 | oh I see it's potential |
| 18:22.08 | brlcad | a pool map would be sweet.. where your shots thrust players in directions, with pocket holes on the map |
| 18:22.10 | JeffM2501 | it has many posibilitys |
| 18:22.13 | JeffM2501 | you see some |
| 18:22.15 | JeffM2501 | I see some |
| 18:22.17 | brlcad | once a whole team was pocketed, the team wins |
| 18:22.19 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz sees some |
| 18:22.26 | TheRedBaron | scratch that |
| 18:22.31 | DTRemenak | sounds like the pinball mod for elite force |
| 18:22.33 | TheRedBaron | you do see potential for the game |
| 18:22.39 | TheRedBaron | thats what scares me :) |
| 18:22.41 | JeffM2501 | I don't see the game as you do |
| 18:22.42 | DTRemenak | fun, that |
| 18:22.45 | orange | brlcad: lol, that's a good one |
| 18:22.46 | JeffM2501 | that's what scares you |
| 18:22.51 | bryjen | "i've had it 5 minutes ago and i suck" is newbie. "i've been here 5 years and i suck" is something else, JeffM2501 |
| 18:23.04 | bryjen | ;) |
| 18:23.05 | JeffM2501 | bryjen, ;) |
| 18:23.09 | JeffM2501 | I suck by choice |
| 18:23.12 | JeffM2501 | I get more tips that way |
| 18:23.42 | amcnabb | JeffM2501: I have a little bit more information. |
| 18:23.53 | JeffM2501 | as was intended |
| 18:23.59 | JeffM2501 | was funny to watch the channel go silent |
| 18:24.14 | TheRedBaron | the oddity in IRC |
| 18:24.25 | amcnabb | There's a problem with floats, as you mentioned. |
| 18:24.25 | TheRedBaron | full blow discussion going on |
| 18:24.29 | TheRedBaron | and in a second, nothing |
| 18:24.41 | amcnabb | The server thinks that waterLevel is -1.0 and the client thinks that waterLevel is 0.0. |
| 18:24.41 | bryjen | nice typo, TRB |
| 18:24.49 | amcnabb | So the client tries to unpack matindex. |
| 18:24.49 | TheRedBaron | ew |
| 18:24.50 | JeffM2501 | amcnabb, it sounds like tim's fix for the build didn't affect the server then |
| 18:25.43 | *** join/#bzflag JBGood (n=Johnq@66.216.160.160.dynamic.dejazzd.com) |
| 18:26.46 | JBdiGriz | ~mop bryjen |
| 18:26.48 | ibot | ACTION get's a mop and cleans up after bryjen |
| 18:26.50 | TheRedBaron | i wasn't going to mention that :) |
| 18:27.51 | JeffM2501 | most of the obersvations I make about the noob stuff is from what I see from noobs |
| 18:27.57 | JeffM2501 | the questions they ask |
| 18:28.10 | JeffM2501 | registration is of course the bigest |
| 18:28.23 | JBdiGriz | You only see the questions they ask in IRC and the forums. Most of them don't get that far. |
| 18:28.29 | CBG | heh |
| 18:28.53 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, yeah, so it may be an even biger problem |
| 18:29.46 | JBdiGriz | It is a huge problem, but not one that I'm interested in solving. Most of the noobs are kids whose parents are using the PC as a babysitter. |
| 18:30.04 | JeffM2501 | that is a truth |
| 18:30.39 | JeffM2501 | not sure if it's wise to gimp the game for legitmate new users, just because of a social problem in the US. |
| 18:30.50 | TheRedBaron | bryjen: and it wouldn't help if i changed it to "blown" would it? :D |
| 18:31.09 | JeffM2501 | it all comes down to what our goals are |
| 18:31.15 | bryjen | TRB, not much ;) |
| 18:31.15 | JeffM2501 | and the goals of the project are |
| 18:31.24 | JeffM2501 | and I think eveyrone has there own ideas of what that is |
| 18:31.26 | JBdiGriz | I'm not sure if the problem is limited to the US. I think we may be more upfront about it, but the Internet is definitely global. |
| 18:31.34 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 18:32.24 | JeffM2501 | make them enter 5 prime numbers to play ;) |
| 18:32.34 | JBdiGriz | :D |
| 18:32.37 | JeffM2501 | "please hold your theisis up the screen" |
| 18:32.58 | bryjen | here comes that middle-click again |
| 18:33.08 | JBdiGriz | See figure 1 |
| 18:33.09 | cosmos | the pc is the 21st century parental unit |
| 18:33.14 | JeffM2501 | the subspace "zone" think would probalby be the best way to balance it for all users |
| 18:33.42 | JeffM2501 | the open to all noobs zones are the public play grouns |
| 18:34.00 | JeffM2501 | then as you play more and learn about the leauges and stuff, more is opened up to you |
| 18:34.21 | JeffM2501 | so it's not a "no you can't play" it's a "yes you can play, but play over there " |
| 18:34.32 | cosmos | Leno did his jaywalk segment at a UNLV college graduation ceremony, he showed a campagin button of eisenhower and nixon, the recent grads thought they were from the Love Boat tv show |
| 18:34.35 | JBdiGriz | So the initial reviewers just say that the game really sucks, and never get to the good stuff. I like that! |
| 18:34.35 | JeffM2501 | it's worked well for a number of MMORPGS |
| 18:34.51 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, well you spell it all outy |
| 18:34.58 | JeffM2501 | you assume revewiers can read? |
| 18:35.09 | JBdiGriz | It won't solve the problem of slashdot ;) |
| 18:35.12 | cosmos | they are too busy recompiling their kernel |
| 18:35.18 | TheRedBaron | that opens a new can |
| 18:35.21 | JeffM2501 | nothing make everyone on /. happy |
| 18:35.24 | TheRedBaron | the topic of leagues |
| 18:35.45 | JeffM2501 | but its ether that or the reviewer sees a mess of servers and says the game sucks |
| 18:35.59 | TheRedBaron | for me, leagues open a whole new enjoyment of a game |
| 18:36.11 | JeffM2501 | the concept of "prefered" servers may help |
| 18:36.20 | TheRedBaron | because then you have a team, and public playing becomes alot more fun, because you can actually "work/play" together |
| 18:36.28 | brlcad | on that same level, though, we shouldn't be designing the game for reviewers |
| 18:36.30 | cosmos | i agree |
| 18:36.32 | TheRedBaron | I enjoy teamwork |
| 18:36.34 | brlcad | even if they misperceive the game |
| 18:36.34 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, true |
| 18:36.41 | brlcad | that's their problem |
| 18:36.44 | JBdiGriz | Leagues are only enjoyable if you are assured of a level playing field. Who wants to compete when others are cheating? |
| 18:36.48 | brlcad | if our players like it, that's the gold |
| 18:36.56 | TheRedBaron | JBdiGriz: thats an even uglier can of worms |
| 18:37.02 | JeffM2501 | thats why I think the zone system is good |
| 18:37.03 | brlcad | if it attracts new players, that's "can" be gold |
| 18:37.12 | JeffM2501 | the longer you play the more you get access to |
| 18:37.37 | JBdiGriz | That is a can of worms that we could actually make better, as opposed to trying to make /. happy. |
| 18:37.40 | brlcad | you mean .. as my *cough* karma improves |
| 18:37.47 | JeffM2501 | some players may like the chaos of a 20 shot 20man teamles brawl |
| 18:37.51 | TheRedBaron | ~brlcad++ |
| 18:37.57 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, heh |
| 18:38.01 | JeffM2501 | I'd just do it on time |
| 18:38.10 | JeffM2501 | nothing as explotable as karma |
| 18:38.22 | JeffM2501 | play in alpha zone for an hour, get access to the main zones |
| 18:38.29 | TheRedBaron | JeffM2501: yes, there is that popularity factor - but that soon dwindles, and you soon look for more from the game |
| 18:38.33 | JeffM2501 | after that its leauges and stuff that you have to join |
| 18:38.36 | TheRedBaron | thats when I discovered the league |
| 18:38.42 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: you'll end up with people idling just to get to the next area |
| 18:39.02 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, not if there are only 2 real levels based on time |
| 18:39.14 | JeffM2501 | just one to make sure you've played a bit |
| 18:39.19 | JeffM2501 | that's all subspace did |
| 18:39.21 | TheRedBaron | but currently, bz really doesn't support leagues |
| 18:39.26 | JeffM2501 | no it dosn't |
| 18:39.28 | DTRemenak | naw, still won't make sure of anything |
| 18:39.30 | JeffM2501 | and it could do a LOT more |
| 18:39.41 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, nothing is 'sure" |
| 18:39.57 | TheRedBaron | and I think that - along with your "tutorial" would be one of the best benefits to the game |
| 18:40.08 | DTRemenak | and it'll annoy older players too |
| 18:40.24 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, only new players would see it |
| 18:40.27 | DTRemenak | unless you plan on implementing a full alias system for global auth |
| 18:40.29 | JeffM2501 | so they'd know no diference |
| 18:40.35 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, of course |
| 18:40.59 | TheRedBaron | Are you familiar with the Honor system of America's army? |
| 18:41.18 | brlcad | similar concept |
| 18:41.18 | DTRemenak | TheRedBaron: it's like karma ;) |
| 18:41.44 | TheRedBaron | it would require a major revamping of how the scoring in bzflag works |
| 18:41.44 | JeffM2501 | any systemt that trusts humans is explotable ;) |
| 18:41.54 | TheRedBaron | evil h00mans |
| 18:41.54 | brlcad | if we had server-side state, something like honor becomes a lot more tangible |
| 18:42.12 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 18:42.23 | JeffM2501 | I say we break all the players up into 2 groups.. lets say "the horde" and "the alliance" |
| 18:42.31 | TheRedBaron | no no! |
| 18:42.33 | JeffM2501 | and then we make servers wheyre they can fight each other |
| 18:42.40 | JeffM2501 | and some servers where they just fight bots |
| 18:42.43 | JeffM2501 | it'll be great |
| 18:42.51 | JeffM2501 | and you can buy better tank parts |
| 18:42.52 | JeffM2501 | with "gold" |
| 18:42.52 | TheRedBaron | I say (per a debate i had yesterday) we break up into 2 groups "Mustache" vs "beards" |
| 18:42.57 | JeffM2501 | ;) |
| 18:43.19 | bryjen | that leaves the kids out |
| 18:43.20 | ruskie | weee I HATE this spawn algo... I was st and an enemy spawned INTO me |
| 18:43.26 | TheRedBaron | bryjen: thats the point :) |
| 18:43.27 | bryjen | the wimin too |
| 18:43.33 | bryjen | hopefully |
| 18:43.39 | TheRedBaron | they get to watch on the sidelines and cheer |
| 18:43.44 | TheRedBaron | or run in horror |
| 18:43.55 | TheRedBaron | whichever is more appealing to them |
| 18:44.03 | brlcad | woot, BRL-CAD Birds of a Feather at Siggraph is finalized |
| 18:44.41 | bryjen | ruskie: should be fixed on a 2.0.8 server.... |
| 18:45.51 | ruskie | how about the jump and the whole oposing team spawns under you |
| 18:46.31 | trepan | that's by design, for laughs |
| 18:46.43 | bryjen | "you fly, you die" |
| 18:48.54 | ruskie | so broken design |
| 18:49.11 | *** join/#bzflag mahdi (n=chatzill@adsl-dc-36569.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 18:57.23 | Manu | trepan, lol |
| 18:58.23 | Manu | ruskie, before jump watch if someone have died :) |
| 18:58.33 | *** join/#bzflag Death_Barrel (n=eric@adsl-70-247-47-30.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 18:59.07 | ruskie | Manu, lol for me it's ussualy jump then someone genos the other team and they all spawn under me |
| 18:59.27 | Manu | so don't jump :) |
| 19:00.48 | Manu | bryjen, nice sentence. I'll use it ;) |
| 19:02.31 | *** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@host117-169.pool875.interbusiness.it) |
| 19:17.34 | trepan | mouse vs. kb, resolved: http://www.combimouse.com/Assets/Video/Combimouse%20demo.MOV |
| 19:19.25 | SportyGal | someone should kick him for this --> [11:42] TheRedBaron they get to watch on the sidelines and cheer |
| 19:19.44 | brlcad | trepan: heh, cute |
| 19:19.56 | SportyGal | TheRedBaron: join ##essy so I can kick you :) |
| 19:20.17 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o SportyGal] by ChanServ |
| 19:20.21 | TheRedBaron | oh no |
| 19:20.31 | TheRedBaron | whose responsible for that? |
| 19:21.09 | brlcad | what'd I do? :) |
| 19:21.34 | SportyGal | ooo can I? |
| 19:21.39 | *** kick/#bzflag [TheRedBaron!i=DonnaCra@exchange.kingsharbor.org] by SportyGal (meanie!) |
| 19:21.50 | SportyGal | thanks :) you can remove it now |
| 19:21.51 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=trb@koderen.dk) |
| 19:21.55 | SportyGal | thanks :) you can remove it now |
| 19:21.57 | *** kick/#bzflag [TheRedBaron!i=DonnaCra@exchange.kingsharbor.org] by SportyGal (meanie!) |
| 19:22.04 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=trb@koderen.dk) |
| 19:22.05 | TheRedBaron | I fail to see what was meanie |
| 19:22.14 | SportyGal | hrmph all the more of a problem then :) |
| 19:22.18 | *** mode/#bzflag [-o SportyGal] by ChanServ |
| 19:22.18 | brlcad | ooh, heh |
| 19:22.30 | SportyGal | ;) |
| 19:26.54 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@63.147.94.149) |
| 19:26.54 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
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| 19:39.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ |
| 19:57.55 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (n=gnurdux@c-69-251-233-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 19:58.25 | Gnurdux | Mr_Molez, sorry I had to leave before i could tell how to use the plugin |
| 19:58.50 | Gnurdux | if im not here im biking |
| 20:00.05 | Gnurdux | awayy |
| 20:00.46 | Mr_Molez | Gnurdux: i never actually got it ne way |
| 20:01.19 | *** join/#bzflag CT-Matt (n=chatzill@pool-141-158-185-249.cap.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:01.34 | CT-Matt | newb question - how do I keep a server off the server list |
| 20:02.15 | Mr_Molez | dont use -public or -publicaddr |
| 20:02.26 | CT-Matt | ok - but how do I define a servername then? |
| 20:02.34 | CT-Matt | -addr? |
| 20:02.46 | Mr_Molez | or do -advertise somethingsillythatnoonewillsee |
| 20:05.02 | *** join/#bzflag moriah (n=47009dc2@zeebrothers.net) |
| 20:05.11 | moriah | cosmos ping |
| 20:07.52 | CT-Matt | hmm - I am running multiple servers/ports; if I dont use publicaddr what do I use to feed it an address? |
| 20:08.09 | brad | you use any address that points to the server |
| 20:08.14 | brad | you don't need to specify it |
| 20:08.23 | brad | for different ports use -p |
| 20:08.25 | CT-Matt | ahh |
| 20:08.28 | CT-Matt | got it |
| 20:08.57 | Mr_Molez | even still u can specify it |
| 20:09.00 | Mr_Molez | and use -advertise |
| 20:09.09 | Mr_Molez | -advertise somethingsillythatnoonewillsee |
| 20:09.16 | Mr_Molez | if u use that no one will be able to see it |
| 20:09.28 | CT-Matt | ok |
| 20:11.56 | JeffM2501 | you can use noone |
| 20:12.03 | JeffM2501 | or none |
| 20:12.18 | JeffM2501 | there will not be groups called that |
| 20:14.00 | CT-Matt | I think it worked - My cache was still showing it |
| 20:14.04 | CT-Matt | thanks guys |
| 20:18.34 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B001BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:23.34 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, what ATI video card did you end up with? |
| 20:24.00 | JeffM2501 | then one you said sucked? |
| 20:24.11 | *** part/#bzflag moriah (n=47009dc2@zeebrothers.net) |
| 20:24.43 | Mr_Molez | ati radeon x550 |
| 20:25.06 | Mr_Molez | it works for what i need, just about ;) |
| 20:25.16 | JeffM2501 | a 500 ok |
| 20:25.22 | JeffM2501 | new mobo has a x200 on it |
| 20:25.29 | JeffM2501 | trying to figureo out how fast it will be |
| 20:25.33 | JeffM2501 | it's gonna suck :( |
| 20:26.17 | Mr_Molez | should be ok if you use 800x600 |
| 20:26.23 | Mr_Molez | might be able to get away with 1024x768 |
| 20:26.35 | JeffM2501 | I'm not going to play on it |
| 20:26.48 | Mr_Molez | oh |
| 20:26.48 | JeffM2501 | just test |
| 20:26.55 | JeffM2501 | it's not my main system |
| 20:27.05 | JeffM2501 | so it's mostly curousity |
| 20:27.15 | JeffM2501 | my display will ONLY do 1280x1024 |
| 20:32.39 | JeffM2501 | ugg building a win64 bz is going to be "fun" |
| 20:32.49 | JeffM2501 | I'll have to build my own curl and stuff too |
| 20:33.00 | JeffM2501 | and probably pdcurses |
| 20:39.16 | *** join/#bzflag wizatcomputer (n=wizatcom@pool-71-254-21-168.clppva.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:48.36 | Mr_Molez | Gnurdux: ping |
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| 20:52.53 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportyGal] by ChanServ |
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| 20:54.58 | *** join/#bzflag RPG_ (n=darkslac@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
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| 20:55.30 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 20:56.32 | JeffM2501 | SportyGal, pingy |
| 20:56.49 | SportyGal | JeffM2501: pongalong |
| 20:57.03 | JeffM2501 | peepz hasn' used it's team froum since febuary |
| 20:57.05 | JeffM2501 | is it dead? |
| 20:57.18 | SportyGal | JeffM2501: no, but it's being revamped |
| 20:57.32 | JeffM2501 | still need it? |
| 20:57.41 | JeffM2501 | you are the last team forum |
| 20:57.46 | JeffM2501 | and we will not be hosting any more |
| 20:58.04 | SportyGal | well, it's not a "team" per se - it's the admins of secretplace |
| 20:58.16 | JeffM2501 | ok so it's realy a SP server fourm then right? |
| 20:58.22 | SportyGal | yes |
| 20:58.24 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 20:58.27 | JeffM2501 | then I'll just ranme it |
| 20:58.35 | SportyGal | ok, perfect |
| 20:58.36 | SportyGal | thanks |
| 20:58.38 | JeffM2501 | we are doing server forums still for servers that are kind :) |
| 20:59.01 | JeffM2501 | and SP is kinda cool to us ;) |
| 20:59.02 | SportyGal | awww :) |
| 20:59.08 | SportyGal | ~nidhoggr++ |
| 20:59.23 | Mr_Molez | really ? i got offered 1 earlier lol |
| 20:59.32 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, ? |
| 20:59.37 | Mr_Molez | nevermind :P |
| 20:59.54 | Gnurdux | Mr_Molez, pong |
| 20:59.58 | Mr_Molez | yay !!! |
| 21:00.07 | Mr_Molez | Gnurdux: i never actually got the code, irc didn't let me get it |
| 21:00.12 | Gnurdux | yes it did |
| 21:00.15 | JeffM2501 | I just don't want the hassle of dealing with "teams" |
| 21:00.15 | Gnurdux | you recieved it |
| 21:00.16 | Mr_Molez | if you could just put it on a http server or something |
| 21:00.21 | Gnurdux | ooh good idea |
| 21:00.25 | Gnurdux | ill put the whole thing up |
| 21:00.30 | Mr_Molez | hmm ill look but im pretty sure i didnt get it |
| 21:00.35 | Gnurdux | but lemme do some more testing firts |
| 21:00.39 | Gnurdux | Mr_Molez, what client isi t? |
| 21:00.51 | Mr_Molez | nah didn't get it |
| 21:00.52 | Mr_Molez | irssi |
| 21:01.01 | Mr_Molez | im not even sure irssi can do file transfer |
| 21:01.05 | brad | it can |
| 21:01.08 | Mr_Molez | oh |
| 21:01.17 | brad | type /get gnurdux I think |
| 21:01.22 | brad | or dcc get Gnurdux |
| 21:01.28 | brad | can't remember |
| 21:02.00 | trepan | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:02.05 | Mr_Molez | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:02.12 | Mr_Molez | i did it,, but nothing happened :P |
| 21:02.25 | Gnurdux | yes it probably did |
| 21:02.25 | Mr_Molez | then he went offline so i couldn't continue trying ;) |
| 21:02.30 | JeffM2501 | /help /msg |
| 21:02.33 | Gnurdux | because it said you recieved |
| 21:02.42 | Mr_Molez | well, just put the code on a http server |
| 21:02.45 | Mr_Molez | so i can really get it |
| 21:02.47 | Gnurdux | sry |
| 21:02.50 | JeffM2501 | email it |
| 21:02.53 | JeffM2501 | for cripes sake |
| 21:03.10 | JeffM2501 | transfering files over the internet is NOT hard. |
| 21:03.13 | Mr_Molez | no, im not logging into my mail just to put it on my computer |
| 21:03.14 | Mr_Molez | just to upload to my server |
| 21:03.16 | Mr_Molez | waste of time |
| 21:03.37 | JeffM2501 | you want some cheeze with that whine? |
| 21:03.51 | JeffM2501 | :) |
| 21:03.54 | JeffM2501 | works every time |
| 21:04.40 | *** join/#bzflag titmouse (n=Administ@ool-182ccd22.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:05.47 | amcnabb | JeffM2501, I looked at this bug a little bit more. It's creeping me out. |
| 21:05.51 | amcnabb | I think it's a Heisenbug. |
| 21:05.59 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 21:06.11 | JeffM2501 | its probably the float format |
| 21:06.25 | amcnabb | I put in some printf's in the nboUnpackFloat and nboPackFloat functions. |
| 21:06.38 | amcnabb | When the printf's are there, everything's fine. When I take them out, it breaks again. |
| 21:06.44 | JeffM2501 | wierdness |
| 21:06.50 | JeffM2501 | could be optimisations |
| 21:06.50 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:06.52 | JeffM2501 | or something |
| 21:06.59 | amcnabb | It would have to be. |
| 21:07.15 | JeffM2501 | or jsut more fule for me to say GCC sucks ;) |
| 21:07.20 | amcnabb | :) |
| 21:07.36 | amcnabb | I'll play around with it a little more. |
| 21:07.59 | JeffM2501 | I shan't say GCC sucks till I try to build a 64 bit windows one |
| 21:08.04 | JeffM2501 | cus it may suck too |
| 21:08.09 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 21:08.13 | brlcad | from my quick look the other day, the cast from float to long worries me somewhat |
| 21:08.24 | JeffM2501 | asuming I can get a computer that works with the bloddy OS |
| 21:09.24 | JeffM2501 | yes that looked wierd |
| 21:09.29 | DTRemenak | if you think it's a float-related problem, try without -ffast-math first |
| 21:10.04 | brlcad | i think it should really mask the bits off the float into chars and perform a manual htonfish operation, not cast to long and htonl it |
| 21:10.05 | amcnabb | It's not float-arithmetic. It's in the type-casting. |
| 21:10.23 | JeffM2501 | he can connect to other servers fine and unpack the world, but when unpacking from his local server the pack is jacked |
| 21:10.28 | brlcad | DTRemenak: oh, good one, I hadn't thought of that |
| 21:10.43 | amcnabb | What sorts of optimizations does -ffast-math do? |
| 21:10.49 | brlcad | the code assumes IEEE floating point, --fast-math does not |
| 21:10.56 | DTRemenak | amcnabb: -ffast-math affects more than you might think. things are not IEEE compliant with it on |
| 21:11.00 | trepan | amcnabb: try clearing out your .bzf/cache ? |
| 21:11.12 | trepan | (iirc, that worked for someone else) |
| 21:13.03 | amcnabb | trepan, I have two binaries--one that prints out a variable and one that doesn't. The one always works and the other never does. |
| 21:13.10 | amcnabb | It does sound like an optimization thing. |
| 21:13.34 | JeffM2501 | amcnabb, or a float format thing, maybe it has to go to IEEE to do the printf |
| 21:14.04 | JeffM2501 | it's something to try |
| 21:14.48 | amcnabb | Yeah. I'm compiling without -ffast-math now. |
| 21:15.32 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, does vc8 cross compile for Win64? |
| 21:15.43 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 21:15.58 | RPG_ | http://images.bzflag.org/submitimages/ is now complete. |
| 21:16.03 | JeffM2501 | wonder if I'll have to use that for a 64 version |
| 21:16.22 | JeffM2501 | RPG_, cool, post on the froums at let the flood comence. |
| 21:16.30 | L4m3r | :D |
| 21:17.17 | DTRemenak | RPG_: does it use groups for admin auth yet? |
| 21:21.03 | JeffM2501 | if it does I have the group it should use |
| 21:24.53 | *** join/#bzflag ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 21:24.53 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 21:25.54 | amcnabb | I just compiled without -ffast-math and it's still broken. |
| 21:28.37 | *** join/#bzflag Tropican8 (n=Tropican@c-69-253-236-235.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 21:29.00 | trepan | RPG_: add (required) after "Author Information", or mention that all fields must be entered |
| 21:30.22 | *** join/#bzflag |zongo| (n=zongo@4-133.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 21:31.34 | JeffM2501 | amcnabb, so gcc sucks then? ;) |
| 21:31.41 | amcnabb | I guess. :) |
| 21:31.50 | amcnabb | I actually have an idea I'm testing real quick. |
| 21:32.05 | Tropican8 | gcc sucks? I'm hoping you mean for a specific thing |
| 21:32.16 | amcnabb | of course |
| 21:34.32 | JeffM2501 | Tropican8, mostly I'm just being funny ;) |
| 21:34.52 | JeffM2501 | all software has bugs in some area |
| 21:34.55 | JeffM2501 | cept hello world |
| 21:36.44 | Tropican8 | Microsoft software has no bugs though, right? According to them every line of code they release is perfect and will revolutionize the computer industry |
| 21:36.54 | JeffM2501 | I never said that |
| 21:37.07 | JeffM2501 | why would you get that statement from what I said? |
| 21:37.14 | JeffM2501 | nothing is ever perfect |
| 21:37.19 | Tropican8 | lol I was playing xtux a while ago |
| 21:37.26 | Tropican8 | A real Microsoft hating game |
| 21:37.34 | JeffM2501 | umm ok |
| 21:37.36 | Gnurdux | Tropican8, that game is AWESOME |
| 21:37.40 | Gnurdux | wanna play with me? |
| 21:37.42 | JeffM2501 | what ever floats your boat |
| 21:38.02 | Tropican8 | yeah what ip? |
| 21:38.23 | Gnurdux | gnurdux.homelinux.net |
| 21:38.27 | Gnurdux | lemme put up the server |
| 21:38.50 | amcnabb | Is it possible to tell gcc not to try to optimize a certain function? |
| 21:39.18 | Gnurdux | Tropican8, its up |
| 21:39.34 | Tropican8 | k I gotta recompile, wait a sec |
| 21:40.26 | Gnurdux | xtux compiles pretty damn fast |
| 21:40.28 | Tropican8 | ok |
| 21:41.31 | Tropican8 | yes it does, ip? |
| 21:41.52 | Gnurdux | gnurdux.homelinux.net |
| 21:41.58 | *** join/#bzflag larsl (n=larsl@qgis/developer/larsl) |
| 21:41.58 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o larsl] by ChanServ |
| 21:42.40 | larsl | The ship map is really fun. =) |
| 21:51.54 | TheRedBaron | .... |
| 21:52.01 | TheRedBaron | laugh away |
| 21:52.02 | Tupone | hi larsl |
| 21:52.06 | *** part/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=trb@koderen.dk) |
| 21:52.10 | larsl | Tupone: Evening. |
| 21:52.18 | Tupone | nite you mean? |
| 21:53.15 | larsl | No. Morning is 9:00 - 12:00, day is 12:00 - 19:00, afternoon is 19:00 - 22:00, evening is 22:00 - 04:00. |
| 21:53.18 | larsl | The rest is night. |
| 21:53.22 | Tupone | :) |
| 21:57.25 | RPG_ | i'll make some noise about it |
| 21:59.30 | Mr_Molez | ~bzcvs |
| 21:59.31 | ibot | cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co -P -r v2_0branch bzflag |
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| 22:07.38 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Chestal] by ChanServ |
| 22:11.44 | Tropican8 | That was intense Gnu!!! |
| 22:12.13 | Gnurdux | its a nice game isnt it? someone needs to redo it, with more levels and in 3d |
| 22:12.16 | Tropican8 | yeah |
| 22:12.35 | Tropican8 | The guy has all of his 3d models on the site |
| 22:12.44 | Gnurdux | also the single player story-mode should have seperate maps than a multiplayer duke-it-out mode? |
| 22:12.46 | Gnurdux | Tropican8, he does? |
| 22:12.56 | Tropican8 | appearently he converted them down into a simpler format for the game |
| 22:13.05 | Gnurdux | there shouldnt be multiplayer save the world |
| 22:13.15 | Gnurdux | and free for all should have a different set of maps |
| 22:13.20 | Tropican8 | http://xtux.sourceforge.net/models/ |
| 22:13.29 | Gnurdux | but xtux isnt 3 |
| 22:13.30 | Gnurdux | d |
| 22:13.57 | Tropican8 | 3d studio max format, dunno really if that's 3d or psudo-3d |
| 22:14.05 | RPG_ | BZ image submitter is now live |
| 22:14.17 | L4m3r | woohoo |
| 22:14.31 | trepan | RPG_: hm, my most excellent image was delisted, sans email |
| 22:14.34 | Gnurdux | it would be better if it was a slightly angled view |
| 22:14.45 | Gnurdux | ie a 45 degree angle, rather than pure top-down |
| 22:15.10 | Tropican8 | yeah |
| 22:15.20 | Gnurdux | it could be done with opengl |
| 22:15.34 | Gnurdux | i wonder if we could contact that guy |
| 22:15.36 | Tropican8 | It should be made into an opengl fps |
| 22:16.05 | larsl | RPG_: What does it do? |
| 22:16.26 | Tropican8 | I'm gonna look for a game engine that supports his model format |
| 22:16.40 | *** part/#bzflag Death_Barrel (n=eric@adsl-70-247-47-30.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net) |
| 22:17.24 | Gnurdux | Tropican8, hmm |
| 22:17.33 | Gnurdux | i want to contact the guy |
| 22:17.44 | Gnurdux | Tropican8, do you program? |
| 22:17.55 | trepan | Gnurdux: /msg, or start an #xtux3d channel |
| 22:18.17 | Tropican8 | nope but there are so many game editors you really don't need to unless you want a really polished game like bz |
| 22:18.41 | Tropican8 | heh lol good idea, sry bzers |
| 22:20.41 | larsl | Where does one download bzedit these days? |
| 22:21.12 | Tropican8 | sourceforge... |
| 22:22.36 | trepan | larsl: a 3d modeler might server you better, depending on the kind of map you want to make |
| 22:23.05 | larsl | trepan: Would Blender work? |
| 22:23.49 | trepan | yup, there's even a bzw import/export plugin for it |
| 22:23.53 | larsl | Cool. |
| 22:24.14 | larsl | Is it possible to make gravity non-uniform in BZFlag? |
| 22:24.28 | larsl | E.g. directed outwards in a cylinder. |
| 22:25.23 | trepan | larsl: nope, the closest thing to that are the contact based physics drivers |
| 22:25.35 | larsl | Ah. |
| 22:25.57 | trepan | heh, just finished reading those |
| 22:26.06 | trepan | did a model based on it for another proj |
| 22:26.16 | larsl | trepan: After the first book they get really horrible really fast. =P |
| 22:26.20 | larsl | Boo for Gentry Lee. |
| 22:27.00 | trepan | ACC isn't my fav. either |
| 22:28.26 | trepan | would be easy to add volume based modifiers in 2.1, esp. if the physics are reworked ;) |
| 22:28.43 | larsl | Haha. |
| 22:29.39 | larsl | What do the contact based physics drivers do? What files are they in? |
| 22:30.19 | *** part/#bzflag Tropican8 (n=Tropican@c-69-253-236-235.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 22:30.42 | trepan | http://my.bzflag.org/bzfman.cgi?bzw.5.in , search "physics driver" |
| 22:30.52 | trepan | src/game/PhysicsDriver.cxx |
| 22:32.44 | trepan | larsl: can make jump pads, "no jump" pads, conveyors, ice, and death |
| 22:33.02 | larsl | Are there "no shooting" zones too? |
| 22:33.25 | trepan | nope |
| 22:37.28 | larsl | trepan: What does "slide" do in the phydrv object? Reduce friction? |
| 22:38.50 | trepan | it's not really friction based, more like 0 friction with a max accel |
| 22:41.04 | [dmp] | Have an image submitter been chosen? |
| 22:44.55 | JeffM2501 | rpg has put one up that looks prety cool |
| 22:45.00 | JeffM2501 | and is working |
| 22:45.42 | [dmp] | ok, i'll clean up then |
| 22:47.07 | larsl | What does the image submitter do? |
| 22:47.18 | [dmp] | upload pictures to images.bzflazg.org |
| 22:47.21 | JeffM2501 | lets users sumbit textures to be hosted on the site |
| 22:47.30 | JeffM2501 | and e-mails admins so they can aprove them |
| 22:48.01 | JeffM2501 | we used to do it via a big fourm thread, and that was a pain |
| 22:48.13 | JeffM2501 | next will be automated group making ;) |
| 22:49.40 | JeffM2501 | well I think some of your features should be put into DMPs |
| 22:49.43 | JeffM2501 | yours was cool |
| 22:49.47 | larsl | "group making"? |
| 22:49.49 | JeffM2501 | both work mostly the same |
| 22:49.54 | JeffM2501 | larsl, global admin groups |
| 22:50.13 | JeffM2501 | bzfs can see if a user is in a froum group |
| 22:50.28 | JeffM2501 | and can asign them permisions based on that |
| 22:50.33 | JeffM2501 | but making the groups per server is a pain |
| 22:50.41 | [dmp] | implementing my features into DMPs shouldnt be hard :-) |
| 22:50.49 | JeffM2501 | sorry in RPGs |
| 22:50.55 | JeffM2501 | you have group auth, he dosn't |
| 22:51.15 | JeffM2501 | your style was a bit better |
| 22:51.29 | JeffM2501 | he's been busting his ass on his tho |
| 22:52.59 | JeffM2501 | it does bring up some questions on the cash for feature thing, how do you handle more then one submision |
| 22:54.56 | larsl | "Cash for feature"? |
| 22:55.02 | larsl | Who's cash? |
| 22:55.12 | JeffM2501 | money |
| 22:55.15 | JeffM2501 | $$$ |
| 22:55.23 | JeffM2501 | payment |
| 22:55.32 | larsl | s/Who's/Whose/ |
| 22:55.48 | JeffM2501 | mine and brlcad's |
| 22:56.14 | trepan | which features? ;) |
| 22:56.33 | JeffM2501 | the image submiter was the first one |
| 22:56.41 | JeffM2501 | kind of a test |
| 22:57.09 | trepan | how much? |
| 22:57.23 | JeffM2501 | 25$ from each of us |
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| 22:58.38 | JeffM2501 | I was thinking in like amazon gift certs, but we'll ahve to see, maybe via paypall |
| 22:58.47 | JeffM2501 | tho tha'll cost the person money to convert to real $ |
| 22:59.05 | JeffM2501 | maybe just allways give the option |
| 22:59.45 | trepan | it's rumoured that monkeys like bananas |
| 23:00.25 | JeffM2501 | so pay web designers in bandwith? |
| 23:01.07 | *** join/#bzflag orange_ (n=mdw@volt.expo.net) |
| 23:02.07 | [dmp] | JeffM2501: can you delete /usr/web/images.bzflag.org/submitimages_dmp/pub ? (files owned by webserver, so i cannot remove it) |
| 23:02.10 | JeffM2501 | tho his image loader just sent me 2 emails, that have nothing int it |
| 23:02.24 | JeffM2501 | no I don't have the sudoness |
| 23:02.27 | JeffM2501 | I am the same as you |
| 23:02.43 | [dmp] | ok |
| 23:02.47 | JeffM2501 | thankfully I have no power over the webserver :) |
| 23:02.56 | JeffM2501 | so it's not my fault if it breaks :) |
| 23:03.42 | larsl | How hard would it be to add physics drivers based on what volume you are contained in instead of what surface you are touching? |
| 23:04.00 | JeffM2501 | those are called zones |
| 23:04.16 | larsl | JeffM2501: Are there 3D zones? That affect you while you're in the air? |
| 23:04.19 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 23:04.23 | larsl | Oh, cool. |
| 23:04.28 | JeffM2501 | tho I don't know if they can do a phydriv |
| 23:04.38 | JeffM2501 | I know you can do them for spawns |
| 23:05.03 | trepan | zones are not built into the physics for the most part |
| 23:05.15 | trepan | they aren't really handled as 3d objects, even for player/flag spawns |
| 23:05.17 | JeffM2501 | and there is your answer :) |
| 23:05.38 | trepan | the Z component is used as a weighing factor |
| 23:06.01 | trepan | but, as previously mentionned: "would be easy to add volume based modifiers in 2.1, esp. if the physics are reworked" |
| 23:06.07 | JeffM2501 | lots of things would be easy if they were reworked |
| 23:06.33 | JeffM2501 | hope somone(tm) does it |
| 23:06.35 | trepan | and yet, to read the line, you'd think it easy even without the rework |
| 23:08.23 | trepan | T&E, it's all the rage |
| 23:09.07 | JeffM2501 | Transforms and Evangelism? |
| 23:09.17 | [dmp] | RPG_: You need to escape user-provided values (such as filename, email, callsign..) it might contain javascript or whatever people may put in there (currently, javascript can be used to auto-approve images once admins just looks at the images awaiting approval). |
| 23:09.40 | JeffM2501 | oo dmp is smart :) |
| 23:10.52 | *** join/#bzflag tofu (n=sean@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 23:11.00 | *** join/#bzflag brlcad (n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad) |
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| 23:11.00 | *** mode/#bzflag [+ovv brlcad orange menotume] by irc.freenode.net |
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| 23:14.00 | [dmp] | RPG_: you shouldnt rely on callsign for naming files in image_holding. If i create a user named something like "../" .. then i dont need to the image to be approved. |
| 23:15.13 | JeffM2501 | you can probalby just make the changes if you want |
| 23:15.24 | JeffM2501 | we'll call it a "group" project |
| 23:16.27 | [dmp] | I would need to download and make it working. I think his naming convention is used in many parts of the code. And he should be aware of it in future projects :-) |
| 23:16.48 | *** part/#bzflag RPG_ (n=darkslac@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:23.55 | JeffM2501 | I've sent him a message saying he needs to hear what you have to say |
| 23:24.31 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (n=SportChi@69-167-25-130.stmnca.adelphia.net) |
| 23:24.32 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 23:26.19 | JeffM2501 | would you ever use -geometry with out -window ? |
| 23:33.26 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (n=triclops@210-84-32-96.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:35.47 | amcnabb | JeffM2501, I just submitted a fix for the packing bug. |
| 23:35.52 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 23:36.02 | amcnabb | I've tested it on my system. |
| 23:36.16 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 23:38.04 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/ (7 files in 4 dirs): |
| 23:38.05 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: remove -geometry, move it's input to -window |
| 23:38.05 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: remove old 3dfx passthru card stuff, it's dead, gone and done with... |
| 23:39.24 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03jeffm2501 * 10bzflag/package/win32/nsis/BZFlag.nsi: installer shortcuts don't need -geometry ether |
| 23:41.35 | JeffM2501 | of course I can't see it since SF's pages are like locked up |
| 23:41.46 | amcnabb | D'oh. |
| 23:41.52 | amcnabb | Do you want me to post it somewhere else? |
| 23:42.07 | JeffM2501 | what is the change? |
| 23:42.08 | JeffM2501 | is it big? |
| 23:42.20 | amcnabb | Very small. Instead of using pointer magic, we now use a union. |
| 23:42.35 | JeffM2501 | eww union |
| 23:42.57 | amcnabb | -strict-aliasing is default in gcc now (if you do -no-strict-aliasing it also fixes the problem, but that's evil) |
| 23:43.43 | JeffM2501 | I'll have to test it on windows |
| 23:45.05 | amcnabb | Cool. |
| 23:45.14 | JeffM2501 | and that thar 'tosh |
| 23:45.16 | DTRemenak | aw, JeffM2501 doesn't like unions? :) |
| 23:45.33 | amcnabb | They're less evil than casting between pointer types. :) |
| 23:45.33 | JeffM2501 | they have there uses |
| 23:45.52 | tofu | JeffM2501: i've used it without several times |
| 23:46.06 | JeffM2501 | used what without? |
| 23:46.10 | DTRemenak | mmm, tofu |
| 23:46.13 | tofu | -geometry -window |
| 23:46.32 | JeffM2501 | window works with out geometry |
| 23:46.32 | tofu | ooh, i became tofu |
| 23:46.39 | JeffM2501 | but what does -geometry do by istself? |
| 23:46.45 | DTRemenak | ... |
| 23:46.54 | DTRemenak | sets the geometry, maybe? ;) |
| 23:46.55 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o tofu] by ChanServ |
| 23:47.06 | JeffM2501 | the man page says it works with -window |
| 23:47.30 | tofu | sets the resolution of the full-screen context |
| 23:47.32 | JeffM2501 | I combined them, if someone finds a need for them to be seperate they can put it back ;) |
| 23:47.49 | tofu | i might play at 640x480 full screen or 1600x1200 |
| 23:47.51 | JeffM2501 | ahh same as the config or the in agme options |
| 23:48.03 | JeffM2501 | think they need to be seperate? |
| 23:48.14 | JeffM2501 | I'd think most people pick one and go with it |
| 23:48.27 | JeffM2501 | and leave it stored in the config |
| 23:48.35 | brlcad | nah, some maps are more intense |
| 23:48.43 | JeffM2501 | upgrade :) |
| 23:48.46 | brlcad | if you've not got bleeding edge hardware, you have to tone it down |
| 23:48.55 | JeffM2501 | I'll put it back later then |
| 23:49.00 | JeffM2501 | but I'm leaving the 3dfx stuff out |
| 23:49.07 | Gnurdux | http://gnurdux.homelinux.net/bzplugins/confChange/ |
| 23:49.12 | JeffM2501 | just on prinicple |
| 23:49.18 | DTRemenak | 3dfx stuff was broken last I heard anyway |
| 23:49.22 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:49.24 | JeffM2501 | for a long time |
| 23:49.33 | JeffM2501 | so no need to fix it :) |
| 23:49.35 | JeffM2501 | just pull it |
| 23:49.58 | JeffM2501 | wonder if we can require gl 1.1 now? |
| 23:50.05 | JeffM2501 | 1.2 would be cool |
| 23:50.36 | JeffM2501 | and a GPU ;) |
| 23:50.43 | DTRemenak | ~lart JeffM2501 |
| 23:50.51 | JeffM2501 | ok, 1.2 and no GPU |
| 23:50.56 | JeffM2501 | I'll compromise |
| 23:51.10 | JeffM2501 | and ibot.. eww |
| 23:51.19 | JeffM2501 | like double eww |
| 23:51.32 | brlcad | milking gloves could be taken several ways, could be fun |
| 23:51.47 | JeffM2501 | how about texturing dtr |
| 23:51.52 | JeffM2501 | no gpu but texturing :) |
| 23:51.59 | DTRemenak | aww, if you require 1.2, I won't be able to run it on OS/2 :) |
| 23:52.08 | JeffM2501 | and how often do you do that? |
| 23:52.19 | DTRemenak | only have once |
| 23:52.24 | DTRemenak | never checked in the port |
| 23:52.28 | JeffM2501 | was it pain? |
| 23:52.33 | DTRemenak | yessirree |
| 23:52.44 | JeffM2501 | do we need to keep suporting the pain? |
| 23:52.50 | JeffM2501 | just let it go |
| 23:52.53 | JeffM2501 | fly.. be free |
| 23:52.54 | DTRemenak | never supported it in the first place :) |
| 23:53.03 | DTRemenak | like I said, I never checked it in |
| 23:53.07 | JeffM2501 | so you are fine with 1.2? |
| 23:53.10 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 23:53.26 | amcnabb | JeffM2501, I'm heading out for today. Let me know if you see any problems with the patch. |
| 23:53.27 | JeffM2501 | bet it means desuporting the old irx |
| 23:53.49 | DTRemenak | looks like beos has a 1.2 impl |
| 23:54.06 | JeffM2501 | yay so we can do another OS noone runs :) |
| 23:54.26 | DTRemenak | hey, that one is supported though :) |
| 23:54.37 | DTRemenak | you can get away with breaking OS/2 |
| 23:54.40 | JeffM2501 | what about the old irx and sgi stuff? |
| 23:54.46 | brlcad | we have opengl bugs in there now that should probably get fixed first |
| 23:54.54 | DTRemenak | irix 6.2 and newer have gl 1.2 support afaict |
| 23:54.58 | JeffM2501 | we have lots of bugs |
| 23:55.05 | JeffM2501 | in many places |
| 23:55.19 | brlcad | there's still a lighting bug, and the horrible full-resets that we do just cause "it makes it not crash" |
| 23:55.28 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:55.31 | Mr_Molez | bad argument "options" |
| 23:55.33 | DTRemenak | heh. ati is special. |
| 23:55.37 | Mr_Molez | anyone know why i would get that error ? |
| 23:55.46 | JeffM2501 | cus the argument "options" is bad |
| 23:55.52 | brlcad | spec says what ati does is allowed |
| 23:55.56 | JeffM2501 | yeah ATI is very special |
| 23:56.07 | brlcad | not guaranteed context retention |
| 23:56.10 | JeffM2501 | ATI rides the shortGL bus |
| 23:56.13 | brlcad | just would be nice |
| 23:56.16 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: hmm, actually requiring 1.2 would break windows too - MSGL is 1.1 only |
| 23:56.21 | Mr_Molez | i thought "options" was a real thing |
| 23:56.25 | JeffM2501 | realy? |
| 23:56.27 | JeffM2501 | hmm |
| 23:56.36 | DTRemenak | so if your hardware vendor doesn't do separate opengl drivers, you're screwed |
| 23:56.37 | JeffM2501 | Mr_Molez, then you thougt wrong |
| 23:56.51 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, so basicly I'd be screwing software :) |
| 23:56.53 | JeffM2501 | SWeet |
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| 23:57.02 | DTRemenak | and intel chips |
| 23:57.09 | JeffM2501 | double sweet |
| 23:57.14 | DTRemenak | haha |
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| 23:57.26 | JeffM2501 | 1.1 would clean up some things |
| 23:57.41 | A_Meteorite | can't... see... anything... |
| 23:57.42 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, I think our entire use of the context and state need to be looked at |
| 23:57.56 | *** join/#bzflag A_Meteorite (n=A_Meteor@adsl-75-15-142-204.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:58.07 | JeffM2501 | and we do a clean reset on each regain of focus |
| 23:58.20 | JeffM2501 | on windows the context could go invalid when you lose focus |
| 23:58.27 | JeffM2501 | for any vendor |
| 23:58.57 | JeffM2501 | does ATI need a reset more often then that? |
| 23:59.43 | brlcad | mac does the same |
| 23:59.54 | brlcad | linux and bsd where the ones that retained it |
| 23:59.55 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, how about I do this for -geometry, put it back the way it was, but also make -window take the size too |
