| 00:00.07 | brlcad | sure, that'd work |
| 00:00.13 | JeffM2501 | so that you can just do -window 800x600 |
| 00:00.30 | JeffM2501 | or maybe make it -fullscreen instead of geometry |
| 00:00.38 | JeffM2501 | so -fullscreen 1600x1200 |
| 00:00.49 | brlcad | -geometry matches X11 convention |
| 00:01.01 | DTRemenak | no reason to break everyone's scripts/links either |
| 00:01.05 | brlcad | that's undoubtedly why it was chosen |
| 00:01.07 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 00:01.18 | JeffM2501 | tho X11 isn't our primary client user anymore |
| 00:01.31 | DTRemenak | it's close |
| 00:01.39 | brlcad | still, for command line options, it still makes sense |
| 00:01.42 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 00:01.44 | DTRemenak | and none of the others have such conventions :) |
| 00:01.49 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, got any numbers? |
| 00:02.02 | brlcad | yeah, what's with these "dash" options you speak of on windows? :) |
| 00:02.04 | DTRemenak | sure, I'll go look |
| 00:02.11 | JeffM2501 | been curious how we've been doing lately |
| 00:02.14 | JeffM2501 | bet mac is up |
| 00:02.23 | brlcad | bet it's not |
| 00:02.34 | brlcad | haven't been promoting it in the usual channels |
| 00:02.40 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, many windows apps use - |
| 00:02.42 | brlcad | that's usually half our downloads |
| 00:02.44 | JeffM2501 | int he shortcuts :) |
| 00:02.58 | brlcad | apps from *nix :) |
| 00:03.02 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 00:03.05 | JeffM2501 | normal windows app |
| 00:03.05 | DTRemenak | - is posix standard, is it not? |
| 00:03.11 | JeffM2501 | I think so |
| 00:03.17 | DTRemenak | 'cause / is a directory separator |
| 00:03.21 | JeffM2501 | many windows apps use that standard, even if they arn't a port |
| 00:03.27 | JeffM2501 | it's just not somethign you do often |
| 00:03.42 | brlcad | so is ksh-style shell interpretation, but cmd.com doesn't touch that one :) |
| 00:03.52 | JeffM2501 | all the windows terminal apps take - instead of / |
| 00:04.12 | JeffM2501 | tho they do both |
| 00:04.15 | JeffM2501 | for legacy |
| 00:04.16 | brlcad | dir /p don't work no more? :) |
| 00:04.18 | DTRemenak | brlcad: / as a directory separator is fully supported in NT-derived oses |
| 00:04.29 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 00:04.44 | JeffM2501 | / or \ are the same |
| 00:04.47 | DTRemenak | there are some exceptions still. fdisk still uses / |
| 00:04.58 | JeffM2501 | you use fdisK/ |
| 00:04.59 | JeffM2501 | ? |
| 00:05.05 | DTRemenak | fdisk /mbr :) |
| 00:05.07 | JeffM2501 | wow that's old school |
| 00:05.17 | JeffM2501 | graphical boot CD thingy ;) |
| 00:05.21 | DTRemenak | bah |
| 00:05.26 | JeffM2501 | it's clicky :) |
| 00:05.28 | DTRemenak | graphics schmaphics |
| 00:05.44 | JeffM2501 | the spookyes one was one that did a format, and copy of all my data, even the OS, from within windows |
| 00:05.48 | JeffM2501 | reboot, bam on new drive |
| 00:06.02 | DTRemenak | : write failed, filesystem is full |
| 00:06.40 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, I think more mac users are finding it on the normal channels, cus there are more mac users |
| 00:06.59 | DTRemenak | I'd give you current numbers, but my servers drive seems to be full..... |
| 00:07.11 | JeffM2501 | suckzors |
| 00:08.38 | JeffM2501 | the 250 was damn cheap |
| 00:08.45 | DTRemenak | server will get a wee upgrade when I build a new system |
| 00:08.56 | DTRemenak | I'll put my 80 in it |
| 00:09.07 | JeffM2501 | 80$ for a 250 ;) |
| 00:09.24 | JeffM2501 | sata tho |
| 00:09.45 | brlcad | JeffM2501: i'm sure, though we're down thousands by not posting to places like versiontracker regularly.. |
| 00:09.51 | brlcad | i should update it |
| 00:10.12 | JeffM2501 | I don't think we have thousands of users :) |
| 00:10.20 | DTRemenak | sure we do |
| 00:10.31 | DTRemenak | We have 7216 registered users |
| 00:10.37 | JeffM2501 | not realy |
| 00:10.49 | DTRemenak | some are duplicates, and many are unregistered |
| 00:10.56 | JeffM2501 | many many |
| 00:10.57 | brlcad | most are unregistered |
| 00:10.59 | DTRemenak | ~bzfquery |
| 00:11.04 | JeffM2501 | and many gone |
| 00:11.06 | brlcad | i'd venture more than 95% stay unregistered |
| 00:11.33 | JeffM2501 | there are over a thousand sure |
| 00:11.41 | DTRemenak | ~bzflist |
| 00:11.41 | JeffM2501 | but not enough to say "thoustands" |
| 00:11.58 | brlcad | granted 95% of the players probably account for 5% of the actual players-playing play-time |
| 00:12.05 | JeffM2501 | I'd say there are about 2500 active players, and about 200 at any one time |
| 00:12.17 | DTRemenak | 2500 is thousands dude |
| 00:12.21 | brlcad | heh |
| 00:12.22 | DTRemenak | two of them, plus some |
| 00:12.25 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 00:12.37 | JeffM2501 | well if we LOST thoudands we'd be downt o 500 then ;) |
| 00:12.49 | JeffM2501 | thats why I find the statement iffy |
| 00:12.53 | brlcad | see.. only 176 playing.. that's down thousands ;) |
| 00:13.02 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 00:13.07 | JeffM2501 | maybe |
| 00:13.21 | brlcad | it's because the players are fluid.. i think "most" only play for short bits once in a while |
| 00:13.23 | JeffM2501 | it's like saying your a "hundredare" |
| 00:13.31 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: 2500 total, 176 playing, means the average player spends 1/14 of their time on bzflag |
| 00:13.54 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, no, I think there are players that play a lot, and players that play rarely |
| 00:13.58 | DTRemenak | or around 2 hours a day, every day, all year long |
| 00:14.04 | DTRemenak | average, dude :) |
| 00:14.06 | JeffM2501 | I know |
| 00:14.14 | brlcad | exactly, and I bet that number is actually way way higher for infrequent players that give 1/200th of their time (couple times a month) |
| 00:14.16 | JeffM2501 | I know people that play 8-10 hours |
| 00:14.28 | JeffM2501 | well if we tracked that, we'd know :)( |
| 00:14.49 | JeffM2501 | then we could have a flag in the datbase bNeedsALife |
| 00:15.15 | brlcad | can actually track unique ip players just by looking at the bzfls log |
| 00:15.24 | brlcad | assuming they hit the find server menu |
| 00:15.43 | JeffM2501 | I'd be interested in those numbers |
| 00:15.46 | JeffM2501 | over a month or so |
| 00:16.01 | JeffM2501 | I think it would help us know what we got going for an audience |
| 00:16.27 | JeffM2501 | if we moved the MOTD to .bz we could get more info |
| 00:16.32 | JeffM2501 | cus everyone probably hits that |
| 00:16.52 | brlcad | you can get a feel for that just by watching the download stats |
| 00:17.06 | brlcad | that's at least the ratio of people trying the package |
| 00:17.13 | JeffM2501 | that dosn't tell how many people tried it, didn't get it and left |
| 00:17.23 | JeffM2501 | I'd like to know both numbers |
| 00:17.29 | JeffM2501 | downloaded in a month, and played |
| 00:17.59 | DTRemenak | s.b.o is currently tracking statistics for 7331 pages of nicknames, 30 players per page |
| 00:18.04 | DTRemenak | ~7331*30 |
| 00:18.05 | ibot | 219930 |
| 00:18.13 | JeffM2501 | that's a fair amount |
| 00:18.25 | JeffM2501 | wonder if we could get a list of how many are reged |
| 00:18.37 | JeffM2501 | that'd be a good way to see what the reg % is |
| 00:18.44 | DTRemenak | so if you assume only 2500 active players, each one would need almost one hundred aliases |
| 00:18.49 | brlcad | download counts are pretty massive, http://sourceforge.net/project/stats/?group_id=3248&ugn=bzflag&type=&mode=year |
| 00:18.54 | JeffM2501 | ok so I may be wrong :) |
| 00:19.08 | JeffM2501 | the stats is over what time/ |
| 00:19.11 | JeffM2501 | ? |
| 00:19.22 | DTRemenak | long time, I think |
| 00:19.27 | JeffM2501 | people come and go |
| 00:19.31 | DTRemenak | don't remember ever having purged the s.b.o database |
| 00:19.34 | JeffM2501 | I'm saying 2500 active players at a ttime |
| 00:19.39 | brlcad | we spike several 10's of thousands when we make a release apparently |
| 00:20.05 | JeffM2501 | that's why I'd like to know all the numbers over the same time period |
| 00:20.38 | larsl | Are you aware of anyone else running public list servers somewhere? |
| 00:20.45 | DTRemenak | no |
| 00:20.51 | JeffM2501 | what I don't get is why we have 10's of thousands of downlaods, but only 173 people playing |
| 00:21.08 | JeffM2501 | does that mean a lot of people try it, and don't play? |
| 00:21.17 | larsl | Or play on LAN? |
| 00:21.20 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 00:21.22 | JeffM2501 | or play on lan |
| 00:21.27 | DTRemenak | or download more than one time |
| 00:21.28 | JeffM2501 | is lan play larger then I think |
| 00:21.33 | JeffM2501 | that is more probable |
| 00:21.34 | DTRemenak | yes |
| 00:21.41 | JeffM2501 | I know it's biger then I think |
| 00:21.45 | JeffM2501 | but is it biger then net play? |
| 00:21.54 | DTRemenak | lmao. "I know it's bigger than I think" :) |
| 00:21.58 | JeffM2501 | :) |
| 00:22.05 | JeffM2501 | it's larger then I say it is, how's that |
| 00:22.37 | brlcad | don't think the numbers are going to show us a whole lot more than what is already known -- a ton download, a small subset (maybe 5%) play infrequently but on-going or better, 10% of those or less play regularly |
| 00:22.55 | JeffM2501 | and the rest try it once and leave |
| 00:23.02 | JeffM2501 | I'd like to know why those others leave |
| 00:23.05 | brlcad | windows is about 8-10x mac use, all the other plats about match the macs |
| 00:23.10 | DTRemenak | I suppose I ought to add version tracking directly to the list server |
| 00:23.38 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, but if we have numbers, and make changes, and things go up or down, it can tell us if those changes are good or bad :) |
| 00:23.47 | DTRemenak | not really :) |
| 00:23.54 | JeffM2501 | well we can get trends |
| 00:24.01 | JeffM2501 | I think it is statisicly viable |
| 00:24.06 | JeffM2501 | it's not perfect |
| 00:24.08 | JeffM2501 | but it can help |
| 00:24.14 | DTRemenak | could just mean that there are more macs than there used to be, not that more mac people play bzflag |
| 00:24.16 | DTRemenak | for example |
| 00:24.17 | JeffM2501 | hence why I'd just like to know |
| 00:24.21 | DTRemenak | there are LOTS of external factors |
| 00:24.27 | JeffM2501 | true, but we have other sources that can tell us that |
| 00:24.38 | brlcad | increasing popularity on the sf.net stats is useful |
| 00:24.40 | JeffM2501 | right now we are guessing, maybe we could just make more educated guesses |
| 00:24.53 | DTRemenak | brlcad: a lot of people never download bzflag, but do play it |
| 00:25.00 | JeffM2501 | mostly I want to know why many people download and don't play |
| 00:25.04 | DTRemenak | we're included in many, many linux distros |
| 00:25.10 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 00:25.19 | DTRemenak | that's one reason there's still people playing 1.10 |
| 00:25.30 | JeffM2501 | a motd count of unique IPs and a count of how many times they hit per month would be interesting to me |
| 00:25.44 | brlcad | heh, you say that a lot :) |
| 00:25.48 | brlcad | it's all interesting |
| 00:25.52 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 00:25.53 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: you could implement it, sure :) |
| 00:26.06 | DTRemenak | I'm more interested in version/platform spread personally |
| 00:26.07 | JeffM2501 | I'm sure I could |
| 00:26.15 | JeffM2501 | yes that woudl also be interetsting |
| 00:26.31 | JeffM2501 | it's more fun to just talk about it till you do it |
| 00:26.40 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 00:26.40 | JeffM2501 | mr. Im not in school anymore ;) |
| 00:26.46 | brlcad | woo hoo |
| 00:26.49 | brlcad | free labor |
| 00:26.53 | brlcad | i mean.. |
| 00:26.55 | JeffM2501 | noone ever said I wasn't manipulative |
| 00:26.57 | DTRemenak | heh :) |
| 00:27.05 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, you mean "intern"? |
| 00:27.14 | brlcad | :) |
| 00:27.36 | JeffM2501 | time to go get a lightswitch and a lightsaber |
| 00:28.27 | DTRemenak | it's like 20 minutes away |
| 00:31.44 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (i=lan56@user-vcauucs.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 00:35.32 | Gnurdux | ok |
| 00:35.41 | Gnurdux | someone who plays bzflag is hacking my computer |
| 00:35.57 | Gnurdux | brad, is it really not you? |
| 00:36.14 | Gnurdux | today they hacked from a shell account |
| 00:36.45 | Gnurdux | and i now will need to change my password, for a lot of things |
| 00:37.40 | Gnurdux | or take down ssh |
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| 00:41.01 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
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| 00:51.00 | *** part/#bzflag romfis (i=user@chello062178107024.8.12.vie.surfer.at) |
| 00:53.52 | brlcad | helps if you don't make your password xudrunG |
| 00:54.08 | Gnurdux | it wasnt |
| 00:54.14 | Gnurdux | but it was a dictionary word |
| 00:54.52 | brlcad | would have been better off with xudrunG then |
| 00:55.36 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 00:55.40 | *** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban) |
| 01:08.23 | *** part/#bzflag [dmp] (n=dennis@koderen.dk) |
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| 01:41.43 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
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| 01:51.04 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 01:54.45 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: current stats seem to be win: 58%, mac: 16%, linux: 24%, other unices: 0.4%, n=105,207 |
| 01:55.09 | JeffM2501 | 58 that seems up a bit |
| 01:55.28 | DTRemenak | I don't remember what the old stats were :S |
| 01:55.44 | DTRemenak | guess I could knock the latest data off and add the oldest back in |
| 01:57.27 | JeffM2501 | I remmber 55 |
| 01:57.40 | larsl | Is that download stats? |
| 01:57.46 | DTRemenak | no, connection stats |
| 01:57.48 | larsl | Oh. |
| 01:58.40 | DTRemenak | heh :) |
| 01:58.51 | brlcad | hehe |
| 01:58.56 | DTRemenak | just always connect with a few bots ;) |
| 01:59.35 | *** join/#bzflag codergeek42 (n=peter@gentoo/developer/codergeek42) |
| 01:59.41 | DTRemenak | brlcad: do the .bz servers keep -ddd logs over time? |
| 02:00.24 | brlcad | i believe so, at least most do |
| 02:00.34 | DTRemenak | they're probably more active than mine |
| 02:01.18 | DTRemenak | my sample is from 2.0.4 release to current, so nine months worth or something |
| 02:01.27 | brlcad | different maps also attract different players, would be interesting to see if there was a correlation of OS to game style :) |
| 02:01.55 | *** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (n=I_Died_O@c-69-136-41-111.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) |
| 02:02.04 | larsl | DTRemenak: Could you get statistics for what percentage of the cursing, cheating lower teenagers use Windows? |
| 02:02.17 | DTRemenak | larsl: no, but I can make some up...we'll say 85% |
| 02:02.30 | DTRemenak | and 13% mac |
| 02:03.21 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 02:03.44 | DTRemenak | 36% of clients are using SDL |
| 02:03.55 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 02:04.16 | DTRemenak | so 5 of every 6 on linux, and everyone on mac |
| 02:04.45 | JeffM2501 | how many of the SDL capable builds don't use SDL |
| 02:04.53 | JeffM2501 | so some old 2.0.4s |
| 02:04.58 | DTRemenak | 1/6 of linux users don't |
| 02:05.01 | JeffM2501 | do you have stats on the versions? |
| 02:05.09 | DTRemenak | yeah, but raw form only |
| 02:05.12 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 02:05.16 | JeffM2501 | so it has the date in |
| 02:05.18 | DTRemenak | could crunch them if I wanted |
| 02:05.30 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 02:05.43 | larsl | We should get all that sent to the list server automatically and stored (anonymously). |
| 02:05.50 | larsl | By the clients. |
| 02:05.52 | DTRemenak | it is sent, just not stored |
| 02:06.13 | DTRemenak | I've been pondering building a version stats frontend and storing them |
| 02:06.18 | JeffM2501 | motd for unique Ips would be good |
| 02:06.43 | DTRemenak | don't wanna mess with motd |
| 02:07.03 | JeffM2501 | well we have to mod motd anyway |
| 02:07.10 | JeffM2501 | cus we can't remove them :) |
| 02:08.15 | DTRemenak | the "other unices" breaks down to 88% freebsd, 1% netbsd, 6% dragonfly, 3% irix, <1% solaris |
| 02:08.30 | larsl | "Dragonfly"? |
| 02:08.39 | DTRemenak | http://www.dragonflybsd.org/ |
| 02:08.42 | Gnurdux | dragonflybsd |
| 02:08.46 | Gnurdux | its based on freebsd 4.x |
| 02:08.52 | JeffM2501 | that would be your server conectiong to itself? :) |
| 02:08.58 | DTRemenak | most of them, yeah :) |
| 02:09.20 | JeffM2501 | so realy.. solaris == nothin |
| 02:09.50 | DTRemenak | yeah, two connections |
| 02:09.53 | DTRemenak | probably both me |
| 02:10.33 | DTRemenak | there's still an irix presence. other than that it's windows, mac, linux and bsd |
| 02:11.10 | brlcad | it's worth noting the correlation between the percentage of solaris/irix users and the percentage of solaris/irix binaries we post |
| 02:11.19 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 02:11.35 | *** join/#bzflag JupiterDuo (n=davejh@ip24-253-134-233.hr.hr.cox.net) |
| 02:14.07 | JeffM2501 | how many are downloaded? |
| 02:14.24 | JeffM2501 | oh we don't do binarys do we? |
| 02:14.31 | JeffM2501 | wouldn't they build from source |
| 02:15.03 | brlcad | well they'd have to of course |
| 02:15.15 | JeffM2501 | but would that be there first choice? |
| 02:15.17 | brlcad | but do they expect it.. not necessarily |
| 02:15.37 | brlcad | nah, most irix software is binary |
| 02:16.03 | brlcad | and solaris for that matter |
| 02:16.27 | JeffM2501 | what was our last one? |
| 02:16.29 | brlcad | big freeware repositories that sun and sgi maintain for them if it's not commercial software |
| 02:17.59 | JeffM2501 | didn't SGI file for chaper 11? |
| 02:18.33 | JBdiGriz | yes |
| 02:18.49 | brlcad | yep |
| 02:21.18 | JeffM2501 | does that mean they go bybe? or just reorg? |
| 02:21.22 | JeffM2501 | will they be ok? |
| 02:23.15 | brlcad | unknown yet, right now it's just a reorg |
| 02:28.04 | DTRemenak | 1vs1 servers on .bz end up with the following stats: t=16days n=3828 win=58% mac=13% linux=26% other=0.0% |
| 02:28.06 | JeffM2501 | they still making new machines? |
| 02:28.19 | JeffM2501 | 58 prety consitent |
| 02:28.30 | JeffM2501 | looks a lot like yours |
| 02:28.33 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 02:28.40 | JeffM2501 | that's good that your 2 are so consitent |
| 02:30.39 | brlcad | DTRemenak: check out lasermania, it remains very highly popular |
| 02:31.06 | DTRemenak | louman's server logs are a bit different, trying to wrap my script around them :) |
| 02:31.20 | DTRemenak | split by port and day and gzipped |
| 02:31.26 | DTRemenak | nice setup |
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| 03:17.57 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v orange] by ChanServ |
| 03:50.10 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: louman:2804 ends up at n=~5k, win=49%, mac=14%, linux=18%, fbsd=17% |
| 03:51.23 | DTRemenak | louman:2805 ends up at n=~8k, win=56%, mac=14%, linux=17%, fbsd=11% |
| 03:51.34 | larsl | 17% FreeBSD? Is someone running a dozen of bzadmin scripts on it or something? |
| 03:51.44 | DTRemenak | possible |
| 03:52.52 | DTRemenak | louman:2806 ends up at n=~5k, win=48%, mac=15%, linux=17%, fbsd=17% |
| 03:53.35 | JeffM2501 | wow a lot of bsd there |
| 03:53.54 | DTRemenak | server is fbsd, so probably localhost bzadmin connections |
| 03:54.09 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 03:54.15 | larsl | Hm, Blender doesn't seem to find the BZWTools scripts. |
| 03:54.21 | JeffM2501 | be nice to to not list those |
| 03:54.57 | DTRemenak | louman:2807 ends up at n=~127k, win=60%, mac=17%, linux=21%, fbsd=1% |
| 03:55.06 | DTRemenak | larger sample and they all but disappear |
| 03:55.24 | DTRemenak | be nice to know how many real players were on bsd though |
| 03:55.40 | DTRemenak | it's definately nonzero |
| 03:56.21 | DTRemenak | hmmmm....that's odd |
| 03:56.33 | larsl | Has anyone here got the bzw scripts working in Blender? |
| 03:56.34 | DTRemenak | unknown is listed as *negative* 20 |
| 03:56.44 | DTRemenak | guess some ID'ed as more than one platform |
| 03:58.07 | DTRemenak | 2808 is ~4k connections, around the same distributions as 2804/5 |
| 03:59.48 | DTRemenak | 2807 is lasermania I think...so that'll be a nice balanced set |
| 04:01.32 | larsl | Oh, now it works - but all my other scripts disappeared. =P |
| 04:02.01 | DTRemenak | linux is still outnumbering mac in every set I've done, by anywhere from 10-100% |
| 04:02.49 | DTRemenak | with windows at about 2-3x linux |
| 04:03.05 | DTRemenak | so there's your conclusion, JeffM2501 :) |
| 04:28.09 | Mr_Molez | ~bzcvs |
| 04:28.10 | ibot | cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.bzflag.org:/cvsroot/bzflag co -P -r v2_0branch bzflag |
| 04:47.36 | *** join/#bzflag PuMpErNiCkLe (n=PuMpErNi@CPE000d8802a749-CM0012c9a9a6dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 04:58.14 | *** join/#bzflag nick125_ (n=nick@dsl093-220-003.abq1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 05:15.25 | *** join/#bzflag xbmodder_lappy (i=nobody@xbmodder.us) |
| 05:15.40 | xbmodder_lappy | Is there any guide for writing bzflag bots? |
| 05:15.54 | xbmodder_lappy | does bzflag have scripting capabilities? |
| 05:16.25 | xbmodder_lappy | can I hack the autopilot? |
| 05:17.24 | trepan | n n y |
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| 05:40.46 | *** part/#bzflag Tropican8 (n=Tropican@c-69-253-236-235.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 05:45.43 | *** part/#bzflag larsl (n=larsl@qgis/developer/larsl) |
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| 06:16.59 | cosmos | "netapp 960 filer head was accidentally placed in trash compactor. cosmetic damage but unit should be fully functional, no warranty is implied. $35,000 USD" hahahhaa |
| 06:18.27 | Mr_Molez | cosmos: hey u any good at shell scripting ? |
| 06:18.34 | Mr_Molez | bash scripting |
| 06:18.35 | Mr_Molez | oops |
| 06:20.20 | cosmos | im a perl man myself |
| 06:20.31 | cosmos | bash is too linuxy for me :) but whats the prob |
| 06:29.58 | *** join/#bzflag jujibo (n=_jujibo@98.Red-80-36-59.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 06:29.58 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v jujibo] by ChanServ |
| 06:30.26 | Mr_Molez | cosmos: http://pastebin.ca/57036 |
| 06:30.35 | Mr_Molez | just wondering if u have any idea why that doesnt work :P |
| 06:30.41 | cosmos | ok one sec, looking |
| 06:33.05 | cosmos | what exactly doesnt work first |
| 06:33.35 | Mr_Molez | not exactly sure |
| 06:33.59 | cosmos | what is it supposed to do, what is the confchange plugin |
| 06:34.11 | Mr_Molez | what i want it to do is start up a server with a link to a config file which is set in output |
| 06:34.30 | Mr_Molez | after the server has been shutdown |
| 06:34.50 | cosmos | what generates the output file |
| 06:35.34 | Mr_Molez | a plugin for bzlag |
| 06:36.09 | Mr_Molez | bzfs even |
| 06:36.26 | cosmos | so this plugin generates some output to a file, you read this in and start up a new server isntance once the old one dies |
| 06:36.36 | Mr_Molez | yeh |
| 06:37.09 | Mr_Molez | i was originally using this script |
| 06:37.11 | Mr_Molez | http://pastebin.ca/57037 |
| 06:37.23 | Mr_Molez | but after a short while it just seems to stop |
| 06:37.25 | cosmos | i can think of one way to do it real quick using daemontools. if your original run is just the one line where it reads in output and starts up bzfs |
| 06:38.06 | cosmos | as soon as your original server shuts down, daemontools would restart it with whatever was in the current output |
| 06:38.19 | cosmos | then you dont need any logic in a script |
| 06:38.30 | cosmos | just a line to read in output, startup bzfs with that conf |
| 06:38.42 | Mr_Molez | sounsd good |
| 06:38.50 | cosmos | or i could write a daemon in perl but thats more complicated heh |
| 06:39.07 | cosmos | you know what daemontools is right |
| 06:39.07 | Mr_Molez | but would i also be able to declair all the plugins and log file etc like i have now ? |
| 06:39.27 | cosmos | that single line should be able to be used as the RUN script for daemontools |
| 06:39.30 | Mr_Molez | i know what daemon tools is for window slol |
| 06:40.37 | cosmos | http://cr.yp.to/daemontools.html |
| 06:40.50 | Mr_Molez | thanks :P |
| 06:41.53 | cosmos | its basically a daemon that constantly ensures your services are running |
| 06:41.59 | cosmos | i use it to keep hepcat pillbox servers up |
| 06:42.12 | xbmodder_lappy | not like that nasty windows version |
| 06:42.31 | cosmos | so if your inital RUN just reads ouput and generates a bzfs line |
| 06:42.48 | cosmos | as soon as it exits a new bzfs will start with the current conf from your output file |
| 06:43.00 | Mr_Molez | sounds good :D |
| 06:43.03 | Mr_Molez | ill give it a try |
| 06:46.02 | cosmos | k, just ping me if you have a question |
| 06:46.10 | Mr_Molez | cosmos: ok thanks alot :D |
| 06:46.32 | cosmos | if i dont respond, a pm on the forums will do :) |
| 06:46.51 | Mr_Molez | ok :P |
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| 07:21.28 | L4m3r | I'm trying to start my server, and it's halting at "queueing ADD message to list server" |
| 07:21.45 | L4m3r | is the list server being worked on right now? |
| 07:33.42 | *** join/#bzflag broken_chaos (n=akatsuki@S010600045ae0d580.ok.shawcable.net) |
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| 11:07.26 | jomojo | i would like an admin for gu 5154 please |
| 11:17.51 | brlcad | i would like 2 eggs and a steak please |
| 11:18.07 | brlcad | over easy |
| 11:27.48 | *** join/#bzflag Pommes (n=Pommes@p548B0C29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 12:01.50 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/ (NEWS src/net/Pack.cxx): |
| 12:01.50 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: Andrew McNabb fixed cross-platform and 64-bit network protocol bug (applied sf |
| 12:01.51 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: patch 1491304 - fix for packing floats). To paraphrase his patch comment, this |
| 12:01.51 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: fixes a bug which is made apparent by the gcc strict-aliasing option by using a |
| 12:01.51 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: union instead of magic pointer casting when packing and unpacking floats. |
| 12:02.11 | *** join/#bzflag larsl (n=larsl@qgis/developer/larsl) |
| 12:02.11 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o larsl] by ChanServ |
| 12:09.14 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/AUTHORS: Andrew McNabb contributes a signficant code fix as well as other code cleanup, added to dev list. |
| 12:10.07 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/AUTHORS: larsl |
| 12:14.21 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/plugins/configure.ac: |
| 12:14.21 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: was using AC_CONFIG_AUX_DIR rather poorly, needs to be fully contained so make |
| 12:14.21 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: plugins use their own local aux dir. regardless, the relative pathing seems to |
| 12:14.21 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: provoke an automake bug where depcomp and other aux resources are not correctly |
| 12:14.22 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: located. |
| 12:17.59 | *** join/#bzflag LePoulpe303 (n=Olivier@LAubervilliers-151-11-28-35.w193-251.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:19.36 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * 10bzflag/configure.ac: the dumb temporary LIBS and LDFLAGS hacks need to come after all of the SDL library checks or Mac links with the wrong libs if there is no SDL. |
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| 14:31.25 | *** part/#bzflag Chestal (i=thilo@pdpc/supporter/active/Chestal) |
| 15:46.45 | bryjen | ~bzflist |
| 15:47.18 | bryjen | ~nslookup 216.55.160.43 |
| 15:50.10 | bryjen | ~bzfquery 216.55.160.43 |
| 15:51.02 | *** part/#bzflag Upsetter (n=opsala@draugr.de) |
| 16:19.44 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 16:19.44 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 16:24.32 | bryjen | ~weather klax |
| 16:27.25 | JeffM2501 | no not to LA ;) |
| 16:27.28 | JeffM2501 | it's kinda fogy |
| 16:27.44 | JeffM2501 | went to fry's to get an exchange on the busted ATI mobo |
| 16:28.00 | JeffM2501 | and they had a AMD 64 3000+ and mobo for 99$ |
| 16:35.45 | cosmos | ~bzflist |
| 16:36.27 | larsl | Can ibot say on which server someone is playing? |
| 16:36.38 | *** join/#bzflag ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) |
| 16:36.38 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ChanServ] by irc.freenode.net |
| 16:38.23 | bryjen | larsl: no, but you might try http://stats.bzflag.org/currentplayers.php |
| 16:39.35 | brlcad | guu used to be able to indirectly |
| 16:40.06 | JeffM2501 | yeah via the feeds |
| 16:40.13 | JeffM2501 | I'll work on guu this weekend |
| 16:57.16 | *** join/#bzflag amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-67-169-251-207.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
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| 17:27.36 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 17:41.26 | JeffM2501 | they have good AMD64 support? |
| 17:41.53 | JBdiGriz | I haven't tried, but they do have good SMP support. |
| 17:42.12 | JeffM2501 | this is one core |
| 17:42.30 | JeffM2501 | just a 3000+ |
| 17:42.56 | JBdiGriz | I'm looking at the web site to see if they have a specific release notes for the AMD64 distro. |
| 17:43.25 | larsl | JBdiGriz: Can they load ALSA drivers? |
| 17:43.31 | *** join/#bzflag mahdi (n=chatzill@adsl-dc-36569.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 17:46.20 | JeffM2501 | what is the diff between 6.1 and 5.4 ? |
| 17:46.50 | JBdiGriz | You can always check www.freebsd.org for your sound card. I'm still curious about the 64 bit support they have added. It's more along the lines of my interest. |
| 17:46.53 | larsl | 0.7? |
| 17:46.58 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 17:47.26 | JeffM2501 | nvidia drivers hard to do under the bsd? |
| 17:47.31 | JeffM2501 | or same as linux? |
| 17:48.26 | JBdiGriz | nvidia has native FreeBSD drivers |
| 17:48.36 | JeffM2501 | for video and mobo chipsets? |
| 17:49.19 | JBdiGriz | Check the nvidia web site, they support it. |
| 17:49.25 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 17:49.39 | brlcad | use it on amd64 here, pretty good |
| 17:50.01 | JeffM2501 | still have to wait for second install of windows to finihs |
| 17:50.04 | JeffM2501 | finish |
| 17:51.22 | JBdiGriz | It looks like their 64 bit support is good, but they haven't done anything special yet. They have tested 8GB memory systems. |
| 17:51.41 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 17:51.58 | JeffM2501 | tho that would prevent me from making AMD64 debian packages |
| 17:52.03 | JBdiGriz | http://www.freebsd.org/platforms/amd64.html |
| 17:52.45 | JeffM2501 | hmm my mobo isn't thre |
| 17:53.03 | JBdiGriz | I'm sure there is a way to do it, but it would allow you to make AMD64 FreeBSD packages. :) |
| 17:53.21 | JeffM2501 | how big a use is that? |
| 17:53.33 | JeffM2501 | this system is basicly just to build packages, and IRC ;) |
| 17:54.12 | JeffM2501 | hmm... it may not do my nic |
| 17:54.18 | JeffM2501 | On-board Marvell ethernet is not supported. |
| 17:55.32 | JBdiGriz | I was going to do some work to support a gigE cheap board, where they supported the chipset, although not the particular board. It just came up, and I didn't have to do anything special. |
| 17:55.49 | *** join/#bzflag orchid_ (n=bzgirl@unaffiliated/orchid) |
| 17:55.49 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v orchid_] by ChanServ |
| 17:55.52 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 17:56.04 | JeffM2501 | this is an nforce3 so it is older |
| 17:56.18 | JeffM2501 | had problems with nf4 on the older ubuntu |
| 17:56.29 | JBdiGriz | OTOH, I tend to be pretty experimental, so if it's not listed, I would recommend going with Linux if you know that it works. |
| 17:57.12 | *** join/#bzflag Groovy (i=opera@BSN-77-234-236.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 17:58.12 | JeffM2501 | I'm more worried about the 64bit windows not working |
| 17:58.55 | Groovy | is it possible to chat in the game? Chat tab... how can i reach it? |
| 18:00.13 | blast007 | you chat with the 'n' key for sending to all players, and 'm' for sending to your team |
| 18:00.28 | blast007 | the chat tab itself just shows chat message only |
| 18:00.57 | Groovy | ok, thanks |
| 18:01.32 | *** part/#bzflag Groovy (i=opera@BSN-77-234-236.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 18:01.33 | blast007 | the help menu will show you your current key mappings |
| 18:11.45 | amcnabb | JeffM2501, did you have a chance to look at the packing fix? |
| 18:11.55 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 18:11.58 | JeffM2501 | well yes and no |
| 18:12.02 | JeffM2501 | I looked at it |
| 18:12.10 | amcnabb | :) |
| 18:12.19 | JeffM2501 | but I did not try to apply it |
| 18:12.24 | amcnabb | I was just curious if there are any problems on Windows, etc. |
| 18:12.40 | JeffM2501 | havent tried yet |
| 18:12.51 | JeffM2501 | it looks like it'll be ok |
| 18:15.24 | blast007 | amcnabb: brlcad applied the patch to CVS it seems |
| 18:15.55 | blast007 | http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag 5th one down |
| 18:16.46 | JeffM2501 | whoot |
| 18:16.49 | JeffM2501 | then I have nothign to do :) |
| 18:17.07 | blast007 | hehe |
| 18:19.37 | *** join/#bzflag eXtreme (i=bradd@unaffiliated/brad2901) |
| 18:31.38 | amcnabb | blast007, thanks. |
| 18:36.42 | JeffM2501 | what branch did he put it in? |
| 18:39.23 | blast007 | head |
| 18:39.36 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 18:39.41 | JeffM2501 | I'll test it on windows later today |
| 18:40.49 | brlcad | amcnabb: left you comments and a question on the tracker |
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| 18:47.54 | *** join/#bzflag mozul (n=KBC18135@irsumdhcp-11.ifa.hawaii.edu) |
| 18:48.40 | mozul | Hello. Is it possible to get to the list server another way if you are behind a firewall? That is my current situation. |
| 18:49.46 | *** join/#bzflag Daler (n=Daler@willm.micgi.com) |
| 18:51.28 | blast007 | mozul: the list server listens on both port 80 and 81 |
| 18:51.47 | mozul | ok. how do I adjust the port I am using? |
| 18:52.39 | blast007 | open up your bzflag config in a text edit, and look for the 'set list' line |
| 18:53.01 | mozul | #set list http://list.bzflag.bz/db/ |
| 18:53.32 | blast007 | okay, change that to: set list http://my.bzflag.org:81/db/ |
| 18:53.32 | amcnabb | brlcad, thanks |
| 18:53.32 | blast007 | (without the #) |
| 18:54.00 | brlcad | anyone here have VS2005? |
| 18:54.04 | mozul | ok testing..... |
| 18:54.43 | brlcad | or more to the point, does anyone know if K&R C support was ripped out or if there's some option to enable it? |
| 18:56.20 | mozul | ok I tested again and when it starts it can't get the MOTD, and then when I go to the server list I get "can't talk to the list server" in red and when I try to connect to a server by giving it the exact IP and Port, i get Cannot connect to the server and another red can't talk to the list server. |
| 18:57.31 | blast007 | mozul: can you browse the web on that machine? |
| 18:57.44 | mozul | yes |
| 18:57.56 | blast007 | so is it a software firewall? |
| 18:58.11 | blast007 | cuz the MOTD is just web traffic |
| 18:58.19 | mozul | xp asked if bz can access the net and I allowed it. |
| 18:58.26 | blast007 | as is the list server when on the normal port |
| 18:59.28 | mozul | actually it was zonelabs. Windows fireweall is off. |
| 18:59.35 | brlcad | amcnabb: nice work tracking down the problem |
| 18:59.41 | amcnabb | Thanks. |
| 18:59.46 | mozul | I shut down zonelabs and am trying again... |
| 18:59.50 | blast007 | k |
| 19:00.26 | mozul | That was it. Thanks guys. Sorry for the interruption. |
| 19:01.05 | blast007 | :) |
| 19:02.19 | *** part/#bzflag mozul (n=KBC18135@irsumdhcp-11.ifa.hawaii.edu) |
| 19:02.52 | DTRemenak | brlcad: I know of no such options. I haven't run across anything that won't compile yet though. |
| 19:05.12 | brlcad | DTRemenak: have you tried any k&r formatted function decls? |
| 19:05.39 | DTRemenak | brlcad: probably not |
| 19:10.51 | DTRemenak | brlcad: seems to work here |
| 19:12.05 | DTRemenak | at least, http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/57164 compiles |
| 19:12.56 | brlcad | hrmph, okay -- well thanks |
| 19:13.29 | DTRemenak | in C mode, of course |
| 19:13.40 | DTRemenak | strongly doubt it would work in c++ mode |
| 19:15.45 | brlcad | this C mode you speak of.. is that an option you set somewhere? :) |
| 19:16.17 | DTRemenak | yes |
| 19:16.50 | DTRemenak | file properties->C/C++->Advanced->Compile As... |
| 19:18.46 | brlcad | if you're working with a project workspace, there's presumably a project-wide setting for that |
| 19:20.33 | DTRemenak | yeah, you can set it in project properties too, looks like |
| 19:20.37 | DTRemenak | files will inherit it |
| 19:21.06 | brlcad | cool, thx |
| 19:21.21 | DTRemenak | np. hope it helps :) |
| 19:21.26 | brlcad | yeah :) |
| 19:25.38 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 19:25.38 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 19:49.47 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=Chris@s122-222.resnet.ucla.edu) |
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| 19:56.58 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, AMD 3000+ 54 bit, 99$ |
| 19:57.02 | JeffM2501 | with mobo ;) |
| 19:57.10 | L4m3r | 54 bit? o_O |
| 19:57.14 | JeffM2501 | 64 |
| 19:57.15 | JeffM2501 | sorry |
| 19:57.17 | L4m3r | hehe |
| 19:57.36 | Gnurdux | margueritas you mean |
| 19:58.07 | JeffM2501 | whatever |
| 19:58.19 | L4m3r | what's the point of a score modding plug-in if you have to mod the client? :| |
| 19:58.41 | JeffM2501 | cus the API was done before we realised the client would need mods too |
| 19:58.50 | JeffM2501 | so it's a screwup |
| 19:59.10 | L4m3r | well, yeah, I know... I mean, why bother to use it? lol |
| 19:59.31 | JeffM2501 | it works in 2.1 |
| 19:59.35 | L4m3r | it's hard to expect all your players to patch, and it's annoying when the scores are out of sync |
| 19:59.55 | JeffM2501 | that is why we pulled the score function from it |
| 20:00.01 | Tupone | Margarita? hmmm |
| 20:00.01 | L4m3r | yeah |
| 20:00.25 | L4m3r | is it still pulled in v2_0 branch? |
| 20:00.27 | JeffM2501 | hmm I'v I'm buzzed maybe it's a good time to start a gentoo install |
| 20:00.37 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, the plugins should not call it |
| 20:00.40 | Tupone | yeah for gentoo |
| 20:00.43 | L4m3r | :| |
| 20:00.56 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, you do the bzflag ebuilds |
| 20:01.01 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, what one is that? |
| 20:01.05 | Tupone | not yet |
| 20:01.07 | L4m3r | CTF bonus |
| 20:01.15 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, who wrote it? |
| 20:01.20 | L4m3r | let me check |
| 20:01.27 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, ahh somone was saying 2.0.6 wasn't in gento emerge |
| 20:01.35 | JeffM2501 | didn't know if that was you or not |
| 20:01.35 | L4m3r | Daler. |
| 20:01.41 | Tupone | yeah I said it |
| 20:01.50 | JeffM2501 | L4m3r, then daler is dumb |
| 20:01.54 | JeffM2501 | Tupone, no somone not you |
| 20:01.54 | L4m3r | lol |
| 20:02.02 | L4m3r | he included the client patch too |
| 20:02.10 | JeffM2501 | lame |
| 20:02.10 | L4m3r | and made full mention of the bug |
| 20:02.25 | JeffM2501 | maybe it's a gnardux pen name ;) |
| 20:02.35 | L4m3r | ...apparently he hadn't noticed that everyone has thought of and talked about it, but the bug has irked anyone too much to do it |
| 20:03.08 | L4m3r | I think he runs that bizarre CTF game with bots... |
| 20:03.12 | JeffM2501 | we ddn't fix the bug cus it would have made old clients inconsistent |
| 20:03.19 | L4m3r | yeah, I figured as much |
| 20:03.37 | L4m3r | although there's the same problem with /kill and the API's killing function |
| 20:03.46 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:03.51 | JeffM2501 | there are many bugs |
| 20:03.54 | L4m3r | I just patch it so that the server doesn't take points away |
| 20:03.54 | JeffM2501 | all over the software |
| 20:03.54 | Gnurdux | but when the problem in the first place is an inconsistency, its better for clients to be inconsistent on consistency than consistently inconsistant |
| 20:04.11 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, WTF? |
| 20:04.17 | Gnurdux | lol |
| 20:04.18 | L4m3r | not clean, but at least it keeps the scores even |
| 20:04.33 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, think about it |
| 20:04.34 | JeffM2501 | yah it's better to be constent rather the "right" |
| 20:04.46 | JeffM2501 | there is no inconsitency with the bug |
| 20:04.51 | JeffM2501 | it's just not "right" |
| 20:05.03 | JeffM2501 | if all users have the bug then all users will behave in the same buggy way |
| 20:05.08 | JeffM2501 | but they will be consistent |
| 20:05.09 | Gnurdux | but its different |
| 20:05.11 | JeffM2501 | with each other |
| 20:05.20 | Gnurdux | because i am seeing a different score than you are |
| 20:05.24 | Gnurdux | both for your score and mine |
| 20:05.29 | Gnurdux | tho we agree on all other scores |
| 20:05.30 | JeffM2501 | only if you have a plugin that changes it |
| 20:05.34 | Gnurdux | or /kill |
| 20:05.35 | JeffM2501 | that's why we made no plugins that changed it |
| 20:05.41 | L4m3r | or if you use /kill too much |
| 20:05.46 | Gnurdux | or the kill when you spawn to early |
| 20:05.50 | JeffM2501 | then dont' use /kill ;) |
| 20:05.59 | JeffM2501 | it dosnt' mater |
| 20:06.03 | JeffM2501 | it will be fixed in head |
| 20:06.04 | L4m3r | well, that's fixable server-side |
| 20:06.06 | JeffM2501 | 2.0.x is dead |
| 20:06.10 | JeffM2501 | dead dead dead |
| 20:06.19 | L4m3r | Good riddance. |
| 20:06.57 | Gnurdux | it is good riddance, but its also bad because now we have to wait till 2.1, we cant just grab a CVS and expect both new features and working with old clients |
| 20:07.06 | JeffM2501 | oh I'm sure we'll find just as many problems in whatever new protocoll we make |
| 20:07.18 | Gnurdux | different types tho |
| 20:07.21 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, the protocoll only supports so much |
| 20:07.29 | JeffM2501 | what else would you have us do? |
| 20:07.29 | L4m3r | yes, but at least we move forward, right? |
| 20:07.39 | JeffM2501 | constantly support all the old protocolls with new features? |
| 20:07.56 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, im not saying that your doing anything wrong |
| 20:07.57 | JeffM2501 | and spend more time fugeing things into old stuff then actualy desinging new stuff? |
| 20:08.08 | Gnurdux | im just saying that its still inconvenient in the short run |
| 20:08.09 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, yet you allways big up that "it will be a long time" |
| 20:08.19 | L4m3r | I'd rather wait and have the assurance that it was done right, then have it crapped out with hardly any new features and a lot of the same problems. |
| 20:08.28 | L4m3r | than* whoops |
| 20:08.45 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, by making statements like that you are ether saying you think it shoudl be difrent, or saying things we all already know |
| 20:08.55 | JeffM2501 | and you know how we feel about you restating the obvious |
| 20:09.13 | JeffM2501 | you can get CVS and get new features |
| 20:09.18 | JeffM2501 | they just will use other servers |
| 20:09.58 | L4m3r | So I'm curious, since I'm relatively new to BZFlag, how does the transition usually go between versions? |
| 20:10.08 | JeffM2501 | we make it |
| 20:10.11 | JeffM2501 | then release it |
| 20:10.15 | JeffM2501 | and people hate it |
| 20:10.17 | JeffM2501 | and some move |
| 20:10.17 | L4m3r | I mean, does everyone just hop on over once the stable version is released, or does it happen gradually? |
| 20:10.20 | JeffM2501 | then the rest move |
| 20:10.22 | JeffM2501 | and it's done |
| 20:10.32 | L4m3r | heh |
| 20:10.34 | JeffM2501 | yeah there is usualy a hop |
| 20:10.40 | JeffM2501 | the comunity will be split for a bit |
| 20:10.44 | JeffM2501 | those that like it |
| 20:10.46 | JeffM2501 | those that don't |
| 20:10.52 | JeffM2501 | but eventualy they will all move |
| 20:11.01 | JeffM2501 | there will be one big feature that will make people hate it |
| 20:11.05 | JeffM2501 | 1.10 had the spawns |
| 20:11.06 | L4m3r | well, it's all in the hands of the server owners really |
| 20:11.09 | JeffM2501 | 2.0 had wings |
| 20:11.13 | JeffM2501 | yes it is |
| 20:11.30 | L4m3r | 1.10 had spawns? |
| 20:11.35 | blast007 | server-side spawns |
| 20:11.38 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:11.41 | L4m3r | ah. |
| 20:11.45 | Gnurdux | before client could choose where to spawn? |
| 20:11.48 | JeffM2501 | the first server side spawns didn't take shots into account |
| 20:11.52 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, yes |
| 20:11.58 | JeffM2501 | cus that was the only place with a full gamestate |
| 20:12.00 | larsl | Gnurdux: Yes. And some chose very conveniently every time. |
| 20:12.03 | L4m3r | wow, cheat nightmare much? |
| 20:12.05 | Gnurdux | hehe |
| 20:12.07 | JeffM2501 | bzflag was a lan game |
| 20:12.35 | blast007 | the old "if someone cheated, you could go punch them" idea ;) |
| 20:12.42 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 20:12.42 | L4m3r | lol |
| 20:12.54 | JeffM2501 | cheating wasn't a big deal till the internet |
| 20:13.05 | L4m3r | 2.1 should have an e-slap |
| 20:13.08 | blast007 | lol |
| 20:13.18 | JeffM2501 | umm whatever |
| 20:13.27 | L4m3r | a big hand flies across the screen and blinds you for a sec |
| 20:13.54 | JeffM2501 | or just a valid server state that verifies input |
| 20:13.58 | JeffM2501 | cus that would actualy WORK |
| 20:14.09 | L4m3r | heh |
| 20:15.58 | *** part/#bzflag larsl (n=larsl@qgis/developer/larsl) |
| 20:25.33 | Gnurdux | brad, you there? |
| 20:25.52 | Gnurdux | i cant talk on the GU server because im not a leage member |
| 20:31.45 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (n=wizart@dslb-084-058-155-074.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:42.46 | *** join/#bzflag JBGood25 (n=Johnq@66.216.160.160.dynamic.dejazzd.com) |
| 20:57.15 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: have a bad experience? :) |
| 20:57.28 | JeffM2501 | can't run 32bit shell extensions |
| 20:57.36 | JeffM2501 | going to have to build them all |
| 20:57.38 | DTRemenak | ah |
| 20:57.46 | JeffM2501 | no tort CVS :( |
| 20:58.02 | DTRemenak | build tort |
| 20:58.11 | DTRemenak | they'd appreciate a 64-bit build I'm sure |
| 20:58.23 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:58.25 | JeffM2501 | I'm try8ing |
| 20:58.28 | JeffM2501 | it isn't "easy" |
| 20:58.37 | JeffM2501 | hell geting it unziped isnt' easy :) |
| 20:58.59 | JBdiGriz | Running windows isn't "easy". You already win enough kudos just for that. |
| 20:59.00 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 20:59.02 | JeffM2501 | I can get all the sources under 32 I think tho |
| 20:59.05 | DTRemenak | or use wincvs |
| 20:59.15 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, death first! ;) |
| 20:59.21 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 20:59.36 | JeffM2501 | what I could also do is build under 32, and just test in 64 |
| 21:00.01 | DTRemenak | true |
| 21:00.31 | JeffM2501 | gotta do all the windows updates in 32 now |
| 21:01.02 | JeffM2501 | then build curl |
| 21:01.05 | JeffM2501 | pdcurses |
| 21:01.06 | JeffM2501 | zlip |
| 21:01.09 | JeffM2501 | zlib |
| 21:01.10 | JeffM2501 | etc.. |
| 21:01.17 | JeffM2501 | hope bz builds ok :) |
| 21:01.59 | JBdiGriz | JeffM2501 with too many Margeritas starts to sound a little like Gnurdux |
| 21:02.06 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 21:02.13 | JeffM2501 | and to think it was only 1 |
| 21:02.46 | DTRemenak | pdcurses should be interesting. it's a rather old codebase. |
| 21:03.07 | JeffM2501 | think it does anything wierd with pointers? |
| 21:03.12 | DTRemenak | oh yeah |
| 21:03.16 | JeffM2501 | joy |
| 21:03.26 | DTRemenak | but it'll prolly be ok |
| 21:03.35 | JeffM2501 | well not using curses is always an option |
| 21:03.36 | DTRemenak | not sure about the windows-specific chunks |
| 21:03.54 | DTRemenak | but the rest of it builds on solaris 64-bit iirc |
| 21:04.28 | JeffM2501 | I hope that the stuff that builds fine on 64 bit linux and stuff works ok under win64 |
| 21:04.40 | DTRemenak | most of it should |
| 21:04.48 | JeffM2501 | you would think the pointer stuff should be ok at least |
| 21:04.53 | DTRemenak | but there is windows-specific code in some of it |
| 21:05.03 | DTRemenak | zlib is ok on win64 |
| 21:05.04 | JeffM2501 | win64 is shurely slower it seems |
| 21:05.34 | JeffM2501 | and uses more ram |
| 21:05.34 | *** join/#bzflag A_Meteorite (n=A_Meteor@adsl-75-15-139-15.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:05.37 | Gnurdux | hi A_Meteorite |
| 21:05.50 | A_Meteorite | hey |
| 21:05.51 | Gnurdux | A_Meteorite, i made the confChange plugin |
| 21:05.59 | A_Meteorite | confChange? |
| 21:06.06 | JeffM2501 | I didn't see a binary for zlib but picked up the sources, tho don't you have curl use the BZ sources? |
| 21:06.13 | JeffM2501 | for zlib at least? |
| 21:06.21 | DTRemenak | no, I build curl sans zlib |
| 21:06.23 | A_Meteorite | argh, gotta restart colloquy |
| 21:06.23 | A_Meteorite | brb |
| 21:06.25 | Gnurdux | A_Meteorite, combined with a script, it lets admins select a config with a command |
| 21:06.29 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 21:06.32 | DTRemenak | have it use the bz ares sources |
| 21:06.37 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 21:06.39 | DTRemenak | but my build setup is a wee bit odd |
| 21:06.50 | JeffM2501 | now why do we not want to have zlib support in curl? |
| 21:06.57 | DTRemenak | no need for it |
| 21:07.00 | *** join/#bzflag A_Meteorite (n=A_Meteor@adsl-75-15-139-15.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:07.16 | DTRemenak | guess we could compress the server list :S |
| 21:07.17 | JeffM2501 | no URLs will ever be compressed by it? |
| 21:07.23 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 21:07.24 | A_Meteorite | brb |
| 21:07.27 | Gnurdux | A_Meteorite, combined with a script, it lets admins select a config with a command |
| 21:07.33 | DTRemenak | no point in compressing pngs |
| 21:07.38 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:07.42 | DTRemenak | worldfiles are dcompressed by bz |
| 21:07.44 | JeffM2501 | sounds will be too |
| 21:07.48 | JeffM2501 | so ok |
| 21:07.54 | DTRemenak | would just be server list and motd |
| 21:07.59 | DTRemenak | and that seems a mite pointless |
| 21:08.04 | JeffM2501 | cus that MOTD is huge ;) |
| 21:08.08 | DTRemenak | oh yeah |
| 21:08.26 | JeffM2501 | there dosnt' seem to be an interface to remove MOTD messages |
| 21:08.41 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 21:08.44 | DTRemenak | write one |
| 21:08.59 | JeffM2501 | well you did the rewite, didn't know if I was missing something |
| 21:09.00 | A_Meteorite | Gnurdux: ahhh, send it over ;) |
| 21:09.03 | A_Meteorite | back |
| 21:09.09 | DTRemenak | I did no such thing |
| 21:09.13 | Gnurdux | A_Meteorite, its on my http server |
| 21:09.18 | A_Meteorite | link needed |
| 21:09.22 | JeffM2501 | you made it an RSS feed didn't oyu? |
| 21:09.27 | DTRemenak | heck no |
| 21:09.29 | JeffM2501 | from my inital flat text page |
| 21:09.30 | Gnurdux | http://gnurdux.homelinux.net/bzplugins/ |
| 21:09.31 | JeffM2501 | who did that then |
| 21:09.32 | JeffM2501 | hmmm |
| 21:09.34 | DTRemenak | I've got no use for rss :) |
| 21:09.38 | JeffM2501 | somone did it |
| 21:09.39 | DTRemenak | and I hate php |
| 21:09.39 | bryjen | elves! |
| 21:09.41 | JeffM2501 | I thought it was oyu |
| 21:09.43 | JeffM2501 | you |
| 21:09.54 | Gnurdux | A_Meteorite, Mr_Molez wanted it |
| 21:09.57 | JeffM2501 | musta been meno |
| 21:09.57 | Gnurdux | he knows how to use it |
| 21:09.59 | DTRemenak | heh, I thought it was you :) |
| 21:10.04 | JeffM2501 | great |
| 21:10.06 | JeffM2501 | mistery code |
| 21:10.11 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 21:10.14 | A_Meteorite | ok |
| 21:10.48 | DTRemenak | Wed Oct 6 06:27:53 2004 UTC (19 months, 1 week ago) by brlcad |
| 21:10.53 | DTRemenak | update MOTD to support a bunch of new fields including title, author, description, version, publication date, and a mostly unique ID. also add mime types to the output. |
| 21:11.25 | JeffM2501 | ahh so it was HIM |
| 21:11.31 | JeffM2501 | should have known |
| 21:11.47 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, you know sql syntax so it could have been you |
| 21:12.01 | DTRemenak | heh, I've never used the interface though |
| 21:12.11 | JeffM2501 | true, you don't even have an account |
| 21:12.14 | DTRemenak | only time I changed an motd message I did it through the mysql client |
| 21:12.23 | JeffM2501 | tho I'm sure you could get one if you wanted it :) |
| 21:12.23 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 21:12.27 | DTRemenak | yeah, I could add myself |
| 21:12.33 | DTRemenak | or ask to be added |
| 21:12.43 | JBdiGriz | Avoid getting accounts, it only leads to responsibility. |
| 21:12.44 | JeffM2501 | I'm betting youd' do both ;) |
| 21:13.31 | DTRemenak | I wrote an update for the client for motd |
| 21:13.39 | DTRemenak | that might be what you're remembering |
| 21:14.15 | DTRemenak | for version globbing |
| 21:14.26 | DTRemenak | and auto-upgrade on windows |
| 21:15.11 | PuMpErNiCkLe | Gnurdux: :p |
| 21:15.14 | DTRemenak | but no server-side stuff :) |
| 21:19.18 | *** join/#bzflag randomparticle (n=502aba5b@zeebrothers.net) |
| 21:20.26 | randomparticle | hi |
| 21:20.44 | randomparticle | anyone out there? :) |
| 21:20.59 | JeffM2501 | maybe |
| 21:21.00 | A_Meteorite | yes |
| 21:21.09 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, probably |
| 21:21.09 | A_Meteorite | but we could be lying |
| 21:21.13 | JeffM2501 | and the mail thing |
| 21:21.14 | randomparticle | hehe |
| 21:21.26 | randomparticle | do you know, is this the best place to get subversion? -> http://subversion.tigris.org/ |
| 21:21.28 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, I'm old, I could be losing it |
| 21:21.37 | JeffM2501 | randomparticle, best? |
| 21:21.40 | JeffM2501 | it's the same everywhere |
| 21:21.44 | randomparticle | well, official, i guess |
| 21:21.55 | randomparticle | would like to know i'm not downloading a virus or something |
| 21:21.56 | JeffM2501 | I think that's there page |
| 21:22.07 | JeffM2501 | then read what your downloading ;) |
| 21:22.20 | JeffM2501 | I've never heard of an infected subversion tho |
| 21:22.21 | randomparticle | all 500,000,000 lines? nice :P |
| 21:22.36 | *** join/#bzflag larsl (n=larsl@qgis/developer/larsl) |
| 21:22.36 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o larsl] by ChanServ |
| 21:22.42 | JeffM2501 | how do you know we don't put viruses in bzflag? |
| 21:22.56 | DTRemenak | ooh, that sounds like fun |
| 21:23.02 | DTRemenak | we could have our own personal botnet |
| 21:23.03 | randomparticle | if you do, the infection helps me :) |
| 21:23.23 | DTRemenak | (for the logs, being sarcastic here) |
| 21:23.25 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, who says we don't :) |
| 21:23.34 | JeffM2501 | list server + 200 server + players |
| 21:23.38 | randomparticle | ach! the paranoia |
| 21:23.39 | JeffM2501 | + motd |
| 21:23.40 | JeffM2501 | :) |
| 21:23.45 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: I don't...you might, but whatever :) |
| 21:23.49 | JeffM2501 | all nice and comunicating thru a couple places |
| 21:24.01 | DTRemenak | would be a nice little net |
| 21:24.11 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:24.28 | JeffM2501 | even if you put it just in the bzflag client, you'd get 200 or so at a time |
| 21:24.33 | JeffM2501 | sadly many on dialup :) |
| 21:24.51 | JeffM2501 | we could put it in the servers and get some use out of nearly 200 servers ;) |
| 21:24.53 | larsl | Hmmmm. =) |
| 21:25.01 | larsl | You need anyone to package binaries? =) |
| 21:25.16 | JeffM2501 | why even package bins? |
| 21:25.21 | JeffM2501 | put it in the source |
| 21:25.27 | JeffM2501 | noone reads it all |
| 21:25.32 | DTRemenak | *coughs* |
| 21:25.46 | Gnurdux | you can read the commits tho |
| 21:25.51 | JeffM2501 | call it something else |
| 21:25.55 | larsl | True, or you would never have run bzadmin... |
| 21:25.59 | JeffM2501 | the odds of being found out are slim |
| 21:26.08 | JeffM2501 | larsl, I dont' run bzadmin ;) |
| 21:26.16 | JeffM2501 | sadly I just build it |
| 21:26.16 | DTRemenak | except for trepan's mongo-mega-commits, I've read every the source of commit in the last two years |
| 21:26.21 | randomparticle | hey guys, how did that spawning bug slip by you? :) |
| 21:26.25 | DTRemenak | tis called peer review :) |
| 21:26.26 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, so we put you on the payroll |
| 21:26.32 | JeffM2501 | and you let it slide |
| 21:26.40 | DTRemenak | sweet |
| 21:26.41 | larsl | DTRemenak: SO you are that guy who keep resetting my connection? |
| 21:26.43 | DTRemenak | I'm down with that |
| 21:26.46 | JeffM2501 | randomparticle, cus noone tests the beta versions |
| 21:26.52 | randomparticle | ah.. |
| 21:26.55 | JeffM2501 | reading the code and live testing are not the same |
| 21:27.07 | JeffM2501 | we post the betas up there for peer review. |
| 21:27.08 | randomparticle | yes. it was spotted almost instantly on gu |
| 21:27.10 | JeffM2501 | and it sliped thru that |
| 21:27.19 | DTRemenak | yeah, I don't actually *play* the darn thing ;) |
| 21:27.20 | JeffM2501 | cus they didn't upgrade till the release |
| 21:27.36 | DTRemenak | the code was correct, just didn't do what you thought it ought to do :) |
| 21:27.40 | JeffM2501 | your server and bryjen's servers are usualy up to date |
| 21:27.42 | Gnurdux | GU is still on 2.0.4 |
| 21:27.46 | randomparticle | was kind of entertaining |
| 21:27.50 | Gnurdux | GU is still on 2.0.3 i mean |
| 21:27.50 | randomparticle | gu is 2.0.3 |
| 21:27.50 | DTRemenak | I'm on HEAD, JeffM2501 |
| 21:27.58 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, like I said, up to date :) |
| 21:28.02 | DTRemenak | ah |
| 21:28.11 | JeffM2501 | bryjen's even got a playground server |
| 21:28.14 | JeffM2501 | he's my personal hero |
| 21:28.17 | larsl | Are there hooks for spawn positions (per spawn) in the plugin API? |
| 21:28.23 | JeffM2501 | larsl, yes |
| 21:28.29 | JeffM2501 | the API can modify the spawn |
| 21:28.32 | larsl | Cool. |
| 21:28.35 | JeffM2501 | there is even a plugin that does that |
| 21:28.36 | JeffM2501 | airspawn |
| 21:28.48 | randomparticle | can you link bad spawns to the use of the word "lucker"? |
| 21:29.00 | JeffM2501 | how do you know it's a "bad" spawn in code? |
| 21:29.08 | randomparticle | the more you use it, the worse the spawns get for you |
| 21:29.11 | larsl | So you could sort players after score, and spawn the good ones in one section and bad ones in another, with no way to get from one to the other. |
| 21:29.21 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:29.26 | JeffM2501 | you'd have to do the work to find out where everyone is |
| 21:29.30 | JeffM2501 | and where boxes are |
| 21:29.32 | JeffM2501 | but yeah, you could |
| 21:29.37 | bryjen | drop 'em on top of a SW world weapon |
| 21:29.37 | larsl | Or even have a whole chain of rooms, from "supergods" to "total loosers". |
| 21:29.53 | larsl | s/oo/o/ |
| 21:29.53 | JeffM2501 | the API has a "point is clear" function IIRC |
| 21:30.19 | JeffM2501 | you can mark 3d locations in the map with custom map objects if you wanted |
| 21:30.25 | JeffM2501 | and then use those as spawns |
| 21:31.14 | JeffM2501 | the API dosn't have all the hooks it can, but I tried to put in some usefull ones |
| 21:31.16 | larsl | I wish I had a proper connection instead of this stupid DSL so I could do some fun stuff with a server. |
| 21:31.33 | JeffM2501 | ask brlcad if he'll host a server on .bz for you |
| 21:32.09 | larsl | That's a bit too formal... I'd probably get bored after a day or two anyway. =) |
| 21:32.22 | JeffM2501 | then shut it down and leave it :) |
| 21:34.05 | *** join/#bzflag im_fine_u (n=qbfreak2@ool-457701c7.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:34.09 | im_fine_u | hello |
| 21:34.22 | PuMpErNiCkLe | woo, I found a bug :D |
| 21:34.37 | DTRemenak | PuMpErNiCkLe: one down, seven hundred to go? |
| 21:34.43 | PuMpErNiCkLe | something like that, yeg |
| 21:34.45 | PuMpErNiCkLe | *yeh |
| 21:35.04 | JeffM2501 | we are down too 700? |
| 21:35.06 | JeffM2501 | sweet |
| 21:35.33 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: conservative estimate :) |
| 21:36.13 | *** part/#bzflag im_fine_u (n=qbfreak2@ool-457701c7.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 21:39.06 | SportChick | randomparticle: lol |
| 21:39.28 | *** join/#bzflag amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-67-169-251-207.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:43.37 | larsl | Did anything ever happen with those ideas about trans-server teleporters that someone talked about a while back? |
| 21:44.04 | JeffM2501 | they talked about it |
| 21:44.19 | JeffM2501 | personaly I think it's a dumb idea on a general level |
| 21:44.24 | JeffM2501 | I can see it for a graphical loby |
| 21:44.33 | JeffM2501 | but not as something on a game server level |
| 21:44.40 | JeffM2501 | woudl be too easy to exploiit |
| 21:44.55 | JeffM2501 | if it was treated just like a normal TP |
| 21:45.12 | DTRemenak | why? |
| 21:45.28 | JeffM2501 | basicly makes it easyer for people to join and quit |
| 21:45.32 | larsl | I imagine that it would basically just be an in-game shortcut for "Leave game", "Join other game". |
| 21:45.38 | JeffM2501 | what about shots? |
| 21:45.51 | JeffM2501 | and PZ |
| 21:45.52 | DTRemenak | shots don't go through? |
| 21:45.58 | JeffM2501 | the just explosde there? |
| 21:46.03 | DTRemenak | pz acts normally, you don't leave the world |
| 21:46.05 | larsl | Ooh yeah. Sitting in HiX, firing GMs on a ducati style CTF server. =) |
| 21:46.15 | DTRemenak | yeah, just end them there |
| 21:46.26 | JeffM2501 | so then one TP magicaly behaves difrent then others |
| 21:46.34 | JeffM2501 | for no apearant reason |
| 21:46.38 | DTRemenak | different color, has the server name across it |
| 21:46.43 | JeffM2501 | in what language :) |
| 21:46.45 | DTRemenak | should be fairly obvious ;) |
| 21:46.53 | JeffM2501 | it can be done sure |
| 21:46.59 | JeffM2501 | I just don't think it's a good idea |
| 21:47.02 | JeffM2501 | just my opinion |
| 21:47.09 | JeffM2501 | as a loby type server sure |
| 21:47.14 | *** part/#bzflag randomparticle (n=502aba5b@zeebrothers.net) |
| 21:47.14 | JeffM2501 | but I think you'll run into problems |
| 21:47.20 | JeffM2501 | as allways testing woudl tell |
| 21:47.22 | DTRemenak | server name dude. like "bryjen.bzflag.org" painted over it - no language there |
| 21:47.37 | DTRemenak | I'm pretty sure it can be done nicely |
| 21:47.49 | JeffM2501 | I jsut fear if oyu have 2 linked servers, somone cuting back and forth real fast |
| 21:47.56 | JeffM2501 | go get rid of a bad score |
| 21:48.05 | JeffM2501 | cus you've made it a lot easyer |
| 21:48.28 | DTRemenak | rejoin stuff would limit that. force a respawn on the other side. |
| 21:48.28 | JeffM2501 | or driving in, spouting crap, driving out |
| 21:48.44 | JeffM2501 | so you'd not have double links |
| 21:48.49 | JeffM2501 | that could help |
| 21:48.53 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 21:49.02 | JeffM2501 | code it up :) |
| 21:49.09 | DTRemenak | also means you don't need servers to cooperatively agree on where links go |
| 21:49.15 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 21:49.19 | JeffM2501 | cus that would never work out |
| 21:49.27 | larsl | I still think it would be cool if you got to keep your flag... it would be great to roll into a flagless server and SW everyone. |
| 21:49.29 | DTRemenak | oh it would some places |
| 21:49.35 | PuMpErNiCkLe | Unless it was between maps on the same server. |
| 21:49.36 | larsl | I am not serious, of course. |
| 21:49.44 | DTRemenak | larsl: it would pull flags that aren't allowed on the remote end |
| 21:49.53 | DTRemenak | if you had one that was allowed, it'd leave it |
| 21:50.12 | JeffM2501 | so you'd add a new flag to the existing state? |
| 21:50.19 | JeffM2501 | or zap one? |
| 21:50.28 | DTRemenak | no, pull it off the map for the new tank. it'd have to be not in use |
| 21:50.36 | JeffM2501 | becomes rather complex |
| 21:50.41 | PuMpErNiCkLe | Maybe have a 'spare' pool of flags to deal with this issue. |
| 21:50.44 | JeffM2501 | so then that's an easy instant way to find GM |
| 21:50.48 | JeffM2501 | I make a map with all GM |
| 21:50.53 | JeffM2501 | and a link to my server |
| 21:50.54 | *** join/#bzflag RPG_ (n=darkslac@c-24-15-87-171.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:50.55 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 21:50.56 | JeffM2501 | pick up GM, and drive thru |
| 21:50.59 | DTRemenak | true enough |
| 21:51.06 | JeffM2501 | and it's not a "cheat" |
| 21:51.06 | RPG_ | I have this jitter problem |
| 21:51.15 | larsl | JeffM2501: But it would be the server owners who defined the links. |
| 21:51.23 | DTRemenak | remote server probably will have settings for what to do with incoming tanks |
| 21:51.34 | JeffM2501 | not the links INTO your server, if you force a respawn on drive in |
| 21:51.36 | JBdiGriz | Server owners cheating? I don't think you will ever have a technical solution for that one. |
| 21:51.39 | RPG_ | Windows XP SP 1, GeForce 6600 GT (PCIe), AMD Athlon 3000+ |
| 21:51.45 | RPG_ | my FPS says 60 - 58 |
| 21:51.46 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, even players, with local servers |
| 21:51.53 | RPG_ | my lagstats say 83 +- 9 |
| 21:51.56 | JeffM2501 | I'm just saying it opens up a lot |
| 21:51.58 | RPG_ | and yet, my screen jitters |
| 21:51.59 | DTRemenak | could even have an "only allow links from" setting |
| 21:52.05 | JeffM2501 | RPG_, dual core? |
| 21:52.08 | DTRemenak | if you didn't want random people teleporting in |
| 21:52.12 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, or ban links |
| 21:52.15 | JeffM2501 | or whatnot |
| 21:52.16 | RPG_ | this is with 2.0.8 |
| 21:52.17 | DTRemenak | right |
| 21:52.17 | JBdiGriz | I wouldn't allow just any server to link to my server. |
| 21:52.21 | RPG_ | it hapened also with 2.0.6 |
| 21:52.25 | JeffM2501 | RPG_, dual core CPU? |
| 21:52.31 | RPG_ | no, scratch that, it happened also with 2.0.4 |
| 21:52.37 | RPG_ | 2.0.6 was the only build that worked perfectly |
| 21:52.41 | DTRemenak | JBdiGriz: yeah, I expected that'd be the response of a lot of server owners. thus...server owners must have control |
| 21:52.43 | JeffM2501 | RPG_, dual core CPU? |
| 21:53.56 | JeffM2501 | and windows or linux? |
| 21:54.47 | JBdiGriz | or Darwin or FreeBSD or Solaris? |
| 21:55.09 | JeffM2501 | IIRC he runs windows or linux |
| 21:55.09 | PuMpErNiCkLe | Or SkyOS or Debian/Hurd or BeOS? |
| 21:55.12 | JeffM2501 | so I kept it to those |
| 21:55.17 | JeffM2501 | smartasses |
| 21:55.24 | PuMpErNiCkLe | :> |
| 21:55.40 | JBdiGriz | Actually, he originally said Windows XP SP 1, so you could have eliminated one of those. ;) |
| 21:55.46 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 21:55.48 | JeffM2501 | sorry didn't see that |
| 21:55.53 | JeffM2501 | thank you for pointing it out |
| 21:55.57 | DTRemenak | bzflag doesn't run on skyos afaik |
| 21:55.59 | JeffM2501 | you know instead of ridculing me |
| 21:56.03 | JeffM2501 | SP 1 |
| 21:56.04 | JeffM2501 | eww |
| 21:56.07 | JBdiGriz | It's those Margeritas at lunch. |
| 21:56.14 | JeffM2501 | yeah that's it' I'm sure |
| 21:56.31 | JeffM2501 | if it's a dual core then it sounds like the afinity problem |
| 21:56.31 | PuMpErNiCkLe | DTRemenak: I wouldn't know, it's a paid beta. Have you tried it? |
| 21:56.38 | JBdiGriz | and it is far more fun to ridicule you and your prejudices. |
| 21:56.38 | DTRemenak | no |
| 21:56.50 | DTRemenak | if I had tried it, I'd have bzflag running on it, sillyh |
| 21:56.50 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, I'm sure it is |
| 21:56.55 | JeffM2501 | for you |
| 21:57.03 | PuMpErNiCkLe | ah, of course |
| 21:57.10 | JeffM2501 | cus you know, runing windows makes me prejudiced |
| 21:57.31 | JBdiGriz | as running Mac OS makes me prejudiced. |
| 21:57.57 | JeffM2501 | naw it just means you like spiffy lookin shells ;) |
| 21:58.05 | JBdiGriz | bash? |
| 21:58.08 | PuMpErNiCkLe | Being prejudiced makes me prejudiced. |
| 21:58.11 | JeffM2501 | the graphical shell |
| 21:58.25 | PuMpErNiCkLe | I'm oldschool prejudiced. |
| 21:58.29 | JeffM2501 | it's still called the finder right? |
| 21:58.33 | PuMpErNiCkLe | yeah |
| 21:58.51 | JeffM2501 | sadly I have not used my mac much since I got the ipod |
| 21:59.54 | JBdiGriz | Sadly, I have not used my Newton much since ..... |
| 22:00.01 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 22:00.13 | JeffM2501 | did you own one? |
| 22:00.23 | JBdiGriz | I still have it. |
| 22:00.34 | JeffM2501 | wonder why they never took that market further |
| 22:00.50 | JBdiGriz | Too big, too heavy. |
| 22:01.11 | JeffM2501 | why didn't they stay in the PDA market tho? |
| 22:01.19 | JeffM2501 | make smaller lighter ones |
| 22:01.27 | JeffM2501 | like palm did |
| 22:01.57 | JeffM2501 | I mean it's not like people won't buy an apple portable device these days |
| 22:02.09 | JBdiGriz | Palm came along later when the hardware technology caught up. |
| 22:02.29 | JBdiGriz | And PDA's are rather passe at this point. |
| 22:02.51 | JeffM2501 | phones are taking up a lot of that market |
| 22:02.57 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, guess its just my term |
| 22:03.11 | JeffM2501 | the pouinty clicky windowy thing on top of the base OS |
| 22:03.16 | JBdiGriz | I use fancy graphics to draw glyphs for bash. |
| 22:03.50 | JeffM2501 | well techincaly if your on the current OS, your bash shell is drawn with openGL sisn't it? |
| 22:04.06 | brlcad | yay, Terminal using a Wingdings font |
| 22:04.26 | brlcad | that's pretty graphical :) |
| 22:04.26 | JBdiGriz | Of course yesterday, JeffM2501 was accusing me of being a terminal user, and today he tells me I'm a "graphical shell" user. |
| 22:04.39 | bryjen | long, long, ago, in an .ini file far away, there was "shell=progman.exe", or winfile.exe if you preferred |
| 22:05.10 | JBdiGriz | Nope, nothing there |
| 22:05.15 | bryjen | not that far away, JBdiGriz ;) |
| 22:06.38 | JBdiGriz | From what I can tell, the mac doesn't use OpenGL for aqua. It's a supported interface for the programs that want it. |
| 22:07.49 | brlcad | aqua directly doesn't, quartz can (the compositor of the windows and aqua) |
| 22:07.50 | JeffM2501 | I didn't say you used the shell |
| 22:07.55 | JeffM2501 | the graphical one |
| 22:07.59 | JeffM2501 | just oyu like it |
| 22:08.08 | JeffM2501 | if you are going to mock me please get it straight |
| 22:08.23 | JeffM2501 | cus I can go elsewhere for better more accurate criticisms |
| 22:08.46 | JBdiGriz | Then I shall do more than mock you. That way I don't have to get it straight. |
| 22:09.01 | JeffM2501 | so much for real conversations here |
| 22:09.03 | JeffM2501 | oh well |
| 22:09.09 | JBdiGriz | It's friday. |
| 22:09.19 | brlcad | woo hoo, friday! |
| 22:09.37 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, where did you see in VC8 the options to o 64 bit builds |
| 22:09.38 | bryjen | cat5 or 6 ? |
| 22:09.45 | JBdiGriz | JeffM2501: and you and I are on the wrong side of the continent. Everyone else is starting to drink already. |
| 22:09.52 | brlcad | bryjen: definitely fiber optic |
| 22:10.08 | JeffM2501 | no I started too |
| 22:10.14 | JeffM2501 | so it's just you |
| 22:10.19 | JeffM2501 | get with the program! |
| 22:10.33 | bryjen | as long as the light source isn't in your .... ;) |
| 22:10.35 | JBdiGriz | Then I'm alone in my sobriety. |
| 22:10.43 | JeffM2501 | that means you can drive us all home |
| 22:11.13 | JBdiGriz | I'll meet you out front. I should be there in about 6 hours. |
| 22:11.16 | PuMpErNiCkLe | This means I have to start waking up before 3PM... I'm missing the fun. |
| 22:11.37 | JeffM2501 | 6? |
| 22:11.37 | brlcad | JBdiGriz: hehe |
| 22:11.43 | JeffM2501 | you drive too slow :) |
| 22:11.55 | JBdiGriz | I have to finish up working before leaving. |
| 22:12.03 | JeffM2501 | bahh, blow off the work |
| 22:12.43 | JBdiGriz | Tempting, but there are all of these design reviews that I have to attend next week. |
| 22:14.21 | JBdiGriz | and it would probably still be 6 hours, since I would be arriving at I10 around 5:30pm |
| 22:14.30 | JeffM2501 | yeah.. eww |
| 22:15.05 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: standard toolbar. next to the "solution configurations" dropdown is a "solution platforms" dropdown. hit it, hit Configuration Manager, Active Solution Platforms, New..., x64 |
| 22:16.03 | DTRemenak | or PocketPC. that could be fun. |
| 22:16.20 | JeffM2501 | only thing is pocket PC and smartphone |
| 22:16.25 | JeffM2501 | wonder if I missed an option |
| 22:17.04 | JeffM2501 | you on VC.net 2005 standard? or pro? |
| 22:17.31 | DTRemenak | pro |
| 22:17.38 | JeffM2501 | hmm same here |
| 22:17.43 | JeffM2501 | I did a custom install |
| 22:17.47 | JeffM2501 | musta missed something |
| 22:17.53 | DTRemenak | yeah, mighta left it out |
| 22:18.21 | DTRemenak | it's about 700mb extra or something. an entire extra set of debug and runtime libs |
| 22:18.26 | JeffM2501 | k |
| 22:19.17 | JeffM2501 | aha.. the ONE thing they uncheck by default in the install :) |
| 22:19.29 | JeffM2501 | yay for repair |
| 22:19.43 | JeffM2501 | going to try to build tort :) |
| 22:20.04 | JeffM2501 | the author says it's ready for 64, but he can't build installers cus he has no machine |
| 22:20.14 | DTRemenak | cool |
| 22:20.53 | JeffM2501 | now will the 64bit AMD systems run 32 bit linux kernels too? |
| 22:21.17 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 22:21.25 | DTRemenak | but there's no reason not to go 64 |
| 22:21.28 | DTRemenak | for linux |
| 22:21.40 | JeffM2501 | wonder if anyone has done a speed test between a 32 bit build and a 64 build of bz |
| 22:21.52 | JeffM2501 | not unless you needed the address space right? |
| 22:22.07 | DTRemenak | huh? |
| 22:22.15 | JeffM2501 | oh to NOT go 64 |
| 22:22.19 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 22:22.21 | JeffM2501 | read that wrong |
| 22:22.26 | DTRemenak | there's no downside :) |
| 22:22.29 | JeffM2501 | would not your pointers be larger? |
| 22:22.34 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 22:22.36 | DTRemenak | so? |
| 22:22.36 | JeffM2501 | or does it by default use 32bit ones |
| 22:22.44 | JeffM2501 | isn't that more data to sling around |
| 22:23.02 | DTRemenak | yeah. but you also get access to the extra registers, nx bits, and so on |
| 22:23.12 | JeffM2501 | do all apps use those ? |
| 22:23.35 | DTRemenak | gcc optimizes for the extra registers if you build for 64-bit |
| 22:23.40 | JeffM2501 | just wondering if it's faster to sling around 2 32's in the space of 1 64 if you don't need the range of the 64 |
| 22:23.42 | DTRemenak | nx is still per-app I think |
| 22:23.49 | DTRemenak | but important things can use it. like openssh |
| 22:24.06 | DTRemenak | usually you can't actually move 2 32s in the same space |
| 22:24.16 | JeffM2501 | probably not |
| 22:24.22 | DTRemenak | sometimes you can |
| 22:24.29 | JeffM2501 | and a 64 bit app can still walk data in 32bit chuncks |
| 22:24.35 | DTRemenak | yup |
| 22:25.07 | DTRemenak | intel's 64-bit procs cheat and you end up with half of the arithmetic units if you run in 64 mode |
| 22:25.46 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 22:25.50 | brlcad | yay, cheat |
| 22:26.00 | JeffM2501 | they just compbine 2 32 bit modules |
| 22:26.01 | JeffM2501 | ? |
| 22:26.17 | DTRemenak | no, they replaced every pair of 32s on the core with 1 64 |
| 22:26.25 | JeffM2501 | so same data path in |
| 22:26.26 | DTRemenak | and split them back up when run in 32-bit mode |
| 22:26.29 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 22:26.43 | JeffM2501 | maybe it's a good thing I didn't keep the 805D then :) |
| 22:26.56 | DTRemenak | so it runs the same as an ordinary p4 in 32 bit mode, but half as many amus in 64 :) |
| 22:27.13 | DTRemenak | isn't a big problem for most apps |
| 22:27.29 | DTRemenak | but it's there |
| 22:27.42 | JeffM2501 | when you made bz work in VC8 how did you get around the depricated string stuff? |
| 22:27.58 | JeffM2501 | or I should say deprecated |
| 22:28.11 | DTRemenak | #define _CRT_SECURE_NO_DEPRECATE 1 |
| 22:29.08 | DTRemenak | ms says they'll never remove them, so I just turned off the deprecation |
| 22:30.03 | JeffM2501 | ahh ok |
| 22:30.17 | JeffM2501 | have to see if they use a common h file here |
| 22:33.15 | JeffM2501 | whoooo lots of size warnings in BZ |
| 22:33.34 | JeffM2501 | size_t to int stuff |
| 22:35.18 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 22:35.37 | DTRemenak | I haven't fixed everything yet ;) |
| 22:35.42 | DTRemenak | they're all safe afaict |
| 22:35.49 | JeffM2501 | they look it |
| 22:35.58 | JeffM2501 | so far only errors are it can't find curl |
| 22:36.09 | DTRemenak | we usually assume size_t is only 32 bits, so we're not packing more than 2 billion items into vectors or strings ;) |
| 22:36.17 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 22:36.26 | JeffM2501 | yeah that would be a little slow on some systems |
| 22:36.30 | DTRemenak | a little |
| 22:37.02 | JeffM2501 | it would not suprise me to have someone ask for a map with 3 billion objects |
| 22:37.11 | JeffM2501 | "but I made the map at an atomic level" |
| 22:38.48 | DTRemenak | it only takes 35gb of memory! |
| 22:39.08 | DTRemenak | need 64-bit for it anyway ;) |
| 22:39.31 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 22:39.38 | JeffM2501 | be a lot of GL spheres |
| 22:39.50 | JeffM2501 | well libcurl builds |
| 22:39.54 | JeffM2501 | couple warnings |
| 22:39.56 | JeffM2501 | but no errors |
| 22:40.38 | DTRemenak | yeah, it's built on other 64-bit systems for ages |
| 22:43.15 | JeffM2501 | now to just get it to stop mixing with the 32bit version of the lib |
| 22:44.26 | brlcad | ruskie: you've been published! :) |
| 22:44.52 | JeffM2501 | wonder if I should send them a VC8 sln |
| 22:45.20 | brlcad | http://www.macobserver.com/columns/slackersguide/2006/20060519.shtml |
| 22:46.30 | *** join/#bzflag Blue-Eyes (n=Blue@host117-169.pool875.interbusiness.it) |
| 22:46.42 | JeffM2501 | a coworker found that today, and said " don't you do smething with this?" |
| 22:46.59 | brlcad | hehe |
| 22:47.16 | brlcad | "something" |
| 22:48.46 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 22:51.48 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (n=wizart@dslb-084-058-155-074.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:52.32 | JeffM2501 | ah cool, seperate include dirs for x32 and x64 |
| 22:53.23 | larsl | Wouldn't the include files be pretty much the same? |
| 22:53.31 | larsl | But with different libraries. |
| 22:53.37 | JeffM2501 | they do both |
| 22:53.51 | JeffM2501 | include, lib, and excutable |
| 22:54.06 | JeffM2501 | but yes, the incs are almost always the same |
| 22:54.28 | JeffM2501 | oh man.. directX |
| 22:54.38 | JeffM2501 | hope they have a 64 of that sucker :) |
| 23:08.03 | SportChick | JeffM2501: random question |
| 23:08.16 | SportChick | I'll probably get the question wrong the first attempt too :) |
| 23:08.18 | JeffM2501 | randome answer |
| 23:08.33 | DTRemenak | yay randomness |
| 23:08.43 | JeffM2501 | chaos rules the day |
| 23:08.56 | SportChick | iirc, you were talking about the abiity to sort the server list and have favorites in a new version. |
| 23:08.56 | DTRemenak | ~random |
| 23:09.11 | JeffM2501 | SportChick, yeah it was an idea |
| 23:09.18 | JeffM2501 | a better inteface for the data |
| 23:09.29 | SportChick | would it be possible for that to happen if you just said "ducati league" - it would pull up all ducati league servers? |
| 23:09.42 | JeffM2501 | anything is possbile if it's coded that way |
| 23:09.49 | larsl | It would definitely be possible to define server groups on the list server. |
| 23:09.49 | JeffM2501 | but yeah, I would like to have server groups |
| 23:09.53 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:09.59 | JeffM2501 | then you group by them |
| 23:10.06 | DTRemenak | ... |
| 23:10.08 | JeffM2501 | that's why I want servers to register globaly |
| 23:10.14 | SportChick | ok |
| 23:10.15 | larsl | A server hierarchy, even. |
| 23:10.20 | JeffM2501 | in addition to users |
| 23:10.20 | SportChick | thanks, jeffm |
| 23:10.31 | JeffM2501 | now geting somone to DO It... that's the tricky part |
| 23:10.43 | larsl | With a spiffy treeview instead of the 19 page list. |
| 23:10.45 | DTRemenak | hmm, that solves one of tim's old gripes too |
| 23:10.53 | DTRemenak | associates an email address with each server |
| 23:11.00 | JeffM2501 | larsl, I would like a tree as well, but also tabs |
| 23:11.05 | JeffM2501 | tabs based on game type |
| 23:11.09 | JeffM2501 | if the server is NEW |
| 23:11.14 | JeffM2501 | the ability to tree based on hostname |
| 23:11.30 | larsl | Ping sorting would be cool too. |
| 23:11.34 | JeffM2501 | so if you have more then one server on the same DNS then they get one item unless you expand |
| 23:11.40 | larsl | But that would require pinging every server. |
| 23:11.41 | JeffM2501 | there is lots we can do |
| 23:11.43 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 23:11.54 | JeffM2501 | we could have the list server time it's requests |
| 23:12.01 | JeffM2501 | and have that as a vauge "rating" |
| 23:12.13 | larsl | You should have registered for Google summer of code. =) |
| 23:12.16 | larsl | Or did you? |
| 23:12.20 | larsl | (as a project, I mean) |
| 23:12.25 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 23:12.28 | DTRemenak | that's not very good for internationally, JeffM2501 |
| 23:12.36 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, I know |
| 23:12.41 | DTRemenak | list server's ping to australia would suck |
| 23:12.47 | JeffM2501 | the other option is to ping em all |
| 23:12.50 | DTRemenak | like 200ms right there |
| 23:13.03 | JeffM2501 | maybe if it was borken down into smaller tabs its a samller group to ping |
| 23:13.35 | JeffM2501 | well if we had more then one list server, the rating coudl be in the database, and be updated by the server with the lowest ping ;) |
| 23:13.36 | JeffM2501 | ha! |
| 23:13.50 | DTRemenak | oooh |
| 23:13.56 | DTRemenak | then we'd need to localize the servers |
| 23:14.05 | DTRemenak | then you could use the locallest list server too |
| 23:14.09 | DTRemenak | that'd be fun |
| 23:14.14 | DTRemenak | localest? |
| 23:14.15 | JeffM2501 | well or somone that gets a crap rating, you say "dude just run a list server for us" :) |
| 23:14.20 | DTRemenak | hehe |
| 23:14.37 | larsl | We could show a world map with all the list servers and the game servers distributed around them depending on the ping to the different list servers... |
| 23:14.37 | DTRemenak | I'm sure we could find a willing german host |
| 23:14.37 | JeffM2501 | it's on option |
| 23:14.48 | larsl | A spinning globe with glowing dots for game servers. |
| 23:14.49 | JeffM2501 | I'm sure |
| 23:14.49 | DTRemenak | not sure about elsewhere |
| 23:15.11 | JeffM2501 | they would show up as the other server got crap ratings :) |
| 23:15.12 | DTRemenak | there are quite a few aussie players. think they only have one or two native servers though |
| 23:15.24 | JeffM2501 | ping is odd |
| 23:15.35 | JeffM2501 | it would be easyer if we had a smaller list |
| 23:15.47 | JeffM2501 | maybe just have an option that the user can set to ping a tab or group |
| 23:15.51 | JeffM2501 | then they choose |
| 23:16.01 | JeffM2501 | probalby a good enough start |
| 23:16.11 | JeffM2501 | and never ping more then 3-4 at a time |
| 23:16.14 | DTRemenak | they loved it when my servers were on Tech's connection, 'cause there was a fiber link from Tech to one of the UNSW campuses |
| 23:16.15 | JeffM2501 | and just move thru the list slowly |
| 23:16.49 | DTRemenak | could do that |
| 23:16.57 | DTRemenak | or just send all the pings at once |
| 23:17.02 | JeffM2501 | ouch |
| 23:17.04 | DTRemenak | not like they're big |
| 23:17.13 | JeffM2501 | "your on dialup, screw your pipe!" |
| 23:17.14 | JeffM2501 | :) |
| 23:17.26 | A_Meteorite | what if the pings are stored at the listserver? |
| 23:17.28 | JeffM2501 | you can have that if I can have a GPU requirement? :) |
| 23:17.31 | DTRemenak | dude, pings don't even affect people on dialup :P |
| 23:17.32 | A_Meteorite | and it updates and averages it |
| 23:17.39 | JeffM2501 | A_Meteorite, read up |
| 23:17.43 | A_Meteorite | k |
| 23:17.45 | larsl | A_Meteorite: The list server is in US, I am in Sweden. |
| 23:17.49 | DTRemenak | unless you like flood them constantly |
| 23:17.52 | JeffM2501 | DTRemenak, but what's the point of sending out pings to serves you may not even care about |
| 23:17.52 | A_Meteorite | ah |
| 23:18.05 | DTRemenak | JeffM2501: some people only care about their lag :) |
| 23:18.11 | JeffM2501 | but a lot of pings is better then NO pings |
| 23:18.17 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 23:18.20 | larsl | The more lag, the harder it is for other people to hit me. =) |
| 23:18.29 | DTRemenak | ~lart larsl |
| 23:18.31 | larsl | I need to find an australian server. |
| 23:18.33 | JeffM2501 | well we can fix that by puting your input state on the server :) |
| 23:18.56 | DTRemenak | larsl: it's easy to artificially introduce lag |
| 23:19.22 | larsl | Of course. |
| 23:20.24 | brlcad | actually the best network repair algo I've come up with requires the injection of artificial lag for best results :) |
| 23:20.40 | JeffM2501 | a hot lag injection? |
| 23:20.41 | brlcad | mind you just a tiny variable amount |
| 23:21.27 | larsl | Just enough to get those super bullets to go swooshing by behind your tail. |
| 23:21.30 | brlcad | enough to bring down the average overall lag just slightly allowing for more widely distributed lag variance |
| 23:27.48 | SportChick | JeffM2501: another question..? Is it possible to use more than one "master ban list"? |
| 23:27.59 | JeffM2501 | not at present |
| 23:28.12 | SportChick | would it be hard to change that? |
| 23:28.15 | JeffM2501 | you can fake it by making your own, that includes the data from the master |
| 23:28.21 | brlcad | there is only "one" at this point too |
| 23:28.23 | SportChick | I see |
| 23:28.29 | SportChick | brlcad: yes, I know that |
| 23:28.37 | JeffM2501 | it woudl not be hard to make it pull from a list of URLS |
| 23:28.46 | JeffM2501 | and merge them |
| 23:28.56 | A_Meteorite | just a simple PHP require() |
| 23:28.56 | SportChick | ohhh |
| 23:28.59 | JeffM2501 | the interface for that would be somewhat of a hack |
| 23:29.07 | JeffM2501 | yeah doing it in php would be best |
| 23:29.20 | JeffM2501 | you get all your ban lists, read them, merge them, then make your servers read that ONE |
| 23:29.24 | SportChick | If you are looking at setting up "associations" of servers - or whatever you call it - it might be worthwhile |
| 23:29.34 | brlcad | somewhat dangerous concept in itself |
| 23:29.38 | SportChick | it certainly would have use for things like leagues |
| 23:29.39 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 23:29.46 | JeffM2501 | I want to remove the masterban list |
| 23:29.53 | A_Meteorite | Why? |
| 23:29.56 | JeffM2501 | and provide real support for those "associatations" |
| 23:30.07 | JeffM2501 | and then have the global system provide them with the acccess lists |
| 23:30.43 | JeffM2501 | A_Meteorite, becase it's not meant to be a server policeing system |
| 23:30.47 | brlcad | still nice to have a centralized point of control to block out troublemakers, regardless of these associations |
| 23:30.51 | JeffM2501 | if we want that, then lets make ONE |
| 23:30.57 | SportChick | JeffM2501: by access list, do you mean sort of the way that the user groups are currently used - but which would allow a player access to a specific server? |
| 23:31.06 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, sure, you do that by puting a banlist in the list server ;) |
| 23:31.20 | JeffM2501 | SportChick, yes like super duper groups |
| 23:31.23 | brlcad | really need to get regex support added or something though so that wildcards and host-based bans can be made globally too |
| 23:31.28 | SportChick | ok, I understand |
| 23:31.50 | JeffM2501 | then the game would have beter support for managed leagues |
| 23:32.15 | brlcad | putting it in the list server doesn't prevent them from playing (at least without forced registration) |
| 23:32.19 | JeffM2501 | combined with who you advertise to, groups people are in, banlists used, the global system can manage all that for you |
| 23:32.46 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, I say make the game ask the list server "is this host/IP cool?" |
| 23:32.50 | JeffM2501 | same concept of the masterban |
| 23:32.55 | JeffM2501 | just checks each time |
| 23:33.00 | JeffM2501 | instead of loading the list |
| 23:33.11 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@2002:45a6:86ae:0:0:0:0:1) |
| 23:33.11 | JeffM2501 | since it has to contact the list server anway to update player counts |
| 23:33.15 | brlcad | could be spensive for something that rarely changes, dunno |
| 23:33.28 | JeffM2501 | they hit the list to do global auth now anyway |
| 23:33.33 | JeffM2501 | so just tag it onto that |
| 23:33.51 | brlcad | only if they try to auth |
| 23:33.53 | JeffM2501 | it would be the same number of hits if everyone was reged |
| 23:34.07 | JeffM2501 | even if they don't auth, the server updates the player count |
| 23:34.12 | JeffM2501 | so the server STILL hits the list |
| 23:34.16 | brlcad | that it does |
| 23:34.16 | JeffM2501 | so it's no more hits then now |
| 23:34.39 | JeffM2501 | just a little more data |
| 23:34.53 | brlcad | not quantity of hits, it's the "quality".. lots of servers hitting up list server with extra requests .. for data that's not changing |
| 23:34.53 | JeffM2501 | and foloows the masterban concept of "you have to be public" to use it |
| 23:35.18 | JeffM2501 | oh I'm not saying that the list server send a banlist back |
| 23:35.24 | brlcad | i could see adding a bzfls optional reply of "oh, by the way, here's a masterban update" |
| 23:35.33 | JeffM2501 | no no |
| 23:35.34 | JeffM2501 | simpler then that |
| 23:36.15 | brlcad | if it's bzfs asking "is this player ok?" that's "mostly" unnecessary work for bzfls, even if the answer is a one-bit yes/no |
| 23:36.17 | JeffM2501 | when game server says "palyer update" it also sends along the hostmasks and IPs of JUST the new player(s) and then the "ok" respownce for the update has the "they are cool, or baned" in it |
| 23:36.47 | JeffM2501 | depends what you think is nessisary |
| 23:37.06 | JeffM2501 | if you want your server to be part of a global managed, group.. no it's not |
| 23:37.10 | JeffM2501 | maybe split it out into another server |
| 23:37.15 | JeffM2501 | that is not part of the list |
| 23:37.19 | JeffM2501 | and then groups could have there own |
| 23:37.24 | brlcad | that doesn't change the work :) |
| 23:37.27 | JeffM2501 | and we could offer a global one |
| 23:37.28 | brlcad | it's not where or who |
| 23:37.29 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 23:37.46 | JeffM2501 | but why send em a list of people who may never join? |
| 23:38.16 | JeffM2501 | leting the list server do it combines ID ban, ip, and hostmask into one check |
| 23:38.37 | JeffM2501 | and since they are hiting a global sorce anyway |
| 23:38.41 | brlcad | is having some remote system scanning a banlist for some/all ips on every join on a list that doesn't really change |
| 23:39.09 | JeffM2501 | just a difrent way of looking at it I guess |
| 23:39.14 | larsl | Scanning the list doesn't have to take much time. You could keep the banlist in a hashtable. |
| 23:39.24 | brlcad | it's pushing that work down to the servers or centralizing it, both have merits I reckon |
| 23:39.59 | JeffM2501 | yeah it realy just changes what happens when you add a user, do you push new stuff to all the servers, or let them ask |
| 23:40.04 | larsl | Ah, no. You need to do pattern matching. |
| 23:40.08 | JeffM2501 | I can undertsand that it's a rare thing |
| 23:40.12 | JeffM2501 | to add new users |
| 23:40.14 | brlcad | i'm just hesitant for more strict reliance on network services when our fault tolerance (in bzfs and bzflag proper) is horrible :) |
| 23:40.21 | JeffM2501 | yes yes |
| 23:40.32 | JeffM2501 | this would all have to be after we have more then one server |
| 23:40.47 | JeffM2501 | I mean global auth is tied to that ONE server now |
| 23:40.57 | JeffM2501 | best not to hang anythign else off that till it's rock solid |
| 23:41.00 | brlcad | them receiving updates is like them receiving dns updates.. all dns updates "could" happen centrally, but that can easily turn into a big problem |
| 23:41.22 | brlcad | dns is cached locally and updates distributed as needed |
| 23:41.35 | brlcad | bidirectional publish/subscribe |
| 23:41.41 | *** part/#bzflag romfis (i=user@chello062178107024.8.12.vie.surfer.at) |
| 23:41.50 | JeffM2501 | I don't think we should add any global services, till 2 things happnen, 1) more then one server, 2) the user stuff is pulled out of phpbb |
| 23:42.22 | larsl | Hm, I've forgotten my password for the global login. |
| 23:42.33 | JeffM2501 | there is a link you can click :) |
| 23:42.38 | JeffM2501 | and it'll send you an e-mail |
| 23:43.06 | brlcad | in addition to that, I think our entire system should work in some sort of functional state (even if it's degraded services of some sort) if there were absolutely no network services (i.e. for when we f-up majorly) |
| 23:43.24 | JeffM2501 | or for lan games |
| 23:43.25 | JeffM2501 | :) |
| 23:43.31 | larsl | But I don't remember which email address I used for registration. =P |
| 23:43.37 | brlcad | cached lists in the client is a good start, but the recovery in bzfs isn't there |
| 23:43.44 | JeffM2501 | larsl, want a hint? |
| 23:43.58 | larsl | JeffM2501: Yes please. |
| 23:44.23 | JeffM2501 | your SF |
| 23:44.44 | larsl | But I tried that... |
| 23:44.50 | larsl | ...ah, right. |
| 23:44.56 | JeffM2501 | that's what you have set as the addy |
| 23:44.59 | JeffM2501 | so that's where it'll send |
| 23:45.02 | larsl | I'm not "Lars" on the board, I'm "larsl". |
| 23:45.07 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 23:45.12 | larsl | But I used to play as "Lars". |
| 23:45.31 | JeffM2501 | that's another feature we need after we split, a username/callsign split |
| 23:45.37 | JeffM2501 | with anon bits |
| 23:45.56 | JeffM2501 | and maybe a roleplay bit ;) |
| 23:46.27 | brlcad | you mean a gutting of the user system so that it's implemented how it should have been done in the first place :) |
| 23:46.37 | JeffM2501 | mmmmaaaaayyyyybbbeeeeee |
| 23:46.54 | JeffM2501 | kinda like 2 intrepid developers told the implementer when he was doing it. |
| 23:47.18 | JeffM2501 | and he did it so he could get "karma" |
| 23:47.20 | larsl | Authentification isn't that useful if you can be anonymous though. |
| 23:47.24 | JeffM2501 | and that worked out so well |
| 23:47.34 | JeffM2501 | by "anon" I mean you don't show your groups |
| 23:47.37 | brlcad | personally, i starting to convince myself that it should be compiled code |
| 23:47.56 | JeffM2501 | so you can reg a callsign that is tied to your account ( same password ), but you don't show as admin for instance |
| 23:47.57 | brlcad | a daemon |
| 23:48.00 | larsl | "I know this guy is who he says he is, but he doesn't say who he is" |
| 23:48.02 | JeffM2501 | you are still "registered" |
| 23:48.12 | JeffM2501 | and you have the name |
| 23:48.22 | JeffM2501 | well then we can find out WHO is is, by doing a back lookup |
| 23:48.41 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, if the comunity increases by 10x.. it'll kill apache |
| 23:48.47 | *** join/#bzflag romfis (i=user@chello062178107024.8.12.vie.surfer.at) |
| 23:49.16 | JeffM2501 | they get marked as spam A LOT |
| 23:50.30 | larsl | I've been getting lots of spam lately with long excerpts from "The Hobbit". |
| 23:50.37 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 23:50.43 | brlcad | JeffM2501: that's part of my motivation -- we can respond and perform a lot faster with simple daemon services |
| 23:50.56 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 23:51.04 | JeffM2501 | why he picked web is beyond me |
| 23:51.07 | brlcad | heck I think 1000 lines would probably encompass the core logic of an entire user/group/registration system |
| 23:51.08 | JeffM2501 | probably cus it was easy |
| 23:51.12 | brlcad | doesn't need to be really fancy |
| 23:51.26 | larsl | There may even be existing systems that could be used. |
| 23:51.29 | JeffM2501 | web admin of it is good |
| 23:51.53 | brlcad | he picked it because it was simple to hook into i'd venture |
| 23:51.59 | JeffM2501 | and was "there" |
| 23:52.09 | JeffM2501 | I had the only list of users |
| 23:52.13 | brlcad | it is true that it's "slightly" easier to hook into certain facilities with it, like mysql |
| 23:52.20 | brlcad | but that's even not that difficult in code |
| 23:52.46 | JeffM2501 | for you :) |
| 23:52.48 | brlcad | it's just not researching/new/different |
| 23:52.53 | brlcad | using apache was |
| 23:54.31 | brlcad | yay, "bzflag user daemon" .. bzfud :) |
| 23:55.00 | brlcad | or maybe auth daemon |
| 23:55.14 | larsl | No, BZFLAG, the BZFlag List and Authentification Gizmo. |
| 23:55.21 | brlcad | heh |
| 23:58.08 | brlcad | excellent |
| 23:59.23 | larsl | I have a stag party to go to tomorrow, need to get some sleep... |
| 23:59.27 | larsl | But not quite yet. |