| 00:07.02 | JeffM2501 | yeah it would be part of a new redundant list system for 2.2 |
| 00:07.12 | JeffM2501 | we had a talk about it the other day |
| 00:07.21 | JeffM2501 | it'll still take a lot of work |
| 00:17.09 | Legoguy | alright, im back and have a couple of raw images that I just photographed to make into new textures for bz |
| 00:18.26 | Legoguy | some grass, brick, stone pathway, concrete pathway, stained deck, painted wood panels, i think thats about it, i can get some asphalt (sealed and non-sealed) if need be |
| 00:18.54 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (n=gnurdux@c-69-251-233-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:19.19 | Legoguy | this is a side project of my own but of course if you guys want to add it to official sources id be glad to put it into public domain |
| 00:19.56 | Gnurdux | Legoguy, what is :? |
| 00:20.10 | Legoguy | you missed my past 2 lines, i'll pm to you |
| 00:20.22 | Gnurdux | also bzf isn't public domain, so you could contribute it to bzflag without doing public domaining it |
| 00:20.34 | Gnurdux | just needs to be released under LPGL |
| 00:21.05 | Gnurdux | thnx |
| 00:21.11 | Legoguy | dont see how pics can be lgpl :) |
| 00:21.36 | Gnurdux | heh |
| 00:21.39 | Legoguy | whatever license fits bz i'll make them |
| 00:21.45 | Gnurdux | bzflag is lgpl |
| 00:21.54 | Gnurdux | you could just contribute em to bz |
| 00:22.06 | Legoguy | whatever works :> |
| 00:22.14 | Legoguy | but.. first i gotta make them ;) |
| 00:27.07 | trepan | Legoguy: seamless tiling? |
| 00:28.05 | Legoguy | trepan: thats the idea |
| 00:29.57 | trepan | just makin' sure |
| 00:30.03 | trepan | ;) |
| 00:35.07 | Legoguy | i know all about textures and uv mapping, ive made several models for computer games before ;) |
| 00:35.40 | Legoguy | haven't done much of it lately but the knowledge is still there |
| 00:36.31 | JeffM2501 | Legoguy, you make them tile? |
| 00:37.30 | Legoguy | .. trepan asked that ;) |
| 00:37.35 | Legoguy | i will be making them tile, yes |
| 00:37.48 | JeffM2501 | ahh |
| 00:37.58 | JeffM2501 | he's purple like Gnurdux so I ignored it :( |
| 00:38.41 | Legoguy | what is the preferred resolution, raw image before the tiling is 3008x2000 |
| 00:38.55 | JeffM2501 | power of 2 |
| 00:39.00 | Legoguy | 1024? |
| 00:39.03 | JeffM2501 | 256x256 or 512x512 |
| 00:39.06 | Legoguy | :< |
| 00:39.19 | Gnurdux | otherwise gl freaks out |
| 00:39.23 | JeffM2501 | 1024 would eat a lot of ram |
| 00:39.26 | JeffM2501 | Gnurdux, no it won't |
| 00:39.28 | Legoguy | i spose |
| 00:39.33 | JeffM2501 | it just means we won't have to scale it |
| 00:39.50 | JeffM2501 | bzflag is designed to run on low end hardware |
| 00:40.32 | JeffM2501 | the standard boxwall is like 128x128 |
| 00:40.47 | Legoguy | well considering that i normally play at about 200+fps, i can see that :P |
| 00:41.02 | JeffM2501 | yeah it's not graphicaly intensive on most modern systems |
| 00:42.07 | JeffM2501 | bz by will scale any texture larger then 512 down to 512 |
| 00:42.40 | Legoguy | ah |
| 00:42.45 | Legoguy | doh :< |
| 00:42.48 | JeffM2501 | a number of GL implementations don't like textures larger then 1024x1024 as well |
| 00:43.29 | Legoguy | before i make these tile i'll put them up for viewing |
| 00:44.45 | JeffM2501 | the ground and bases are our largest ones at 512 |
| 00:44.54 | Legoguy | yeah |
| 00:45.06 | JeffM2501 | they are usualy spread over large areas so more res helps |
| 00:45.09 | trepan | clients can be setup to use larger textures |
| 00:45.14 | JeffM2501 | that they can |
| 00:45.21 | trepan | (without scaling) |
| 00:45.32 | JeffM2501 | but if your looking for inclusion in the base set... |
| 00:46.40 | Legoguy | ah yes |
| 00:46.42 | Legoguy | mountains |
| 00:46.43 | trepan | "bz by will scale any texture larger then 512 down to 512" isn't entirely accurate is all |
| 00:46.52 | Legoguy | too bad i live out in illinois, near chicago |
| 00:46.54 | Legoguy | if you want buildings |
| 00:46.56 | Legoguy | i can do that. |
| 00:47.04 | JeffM2501 | trepan, will it ask GL for it's setting if its' bigger? |
| 00:47.17 | *** join/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=a_temp_d@user-12l2r0o.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 00:47.49 | trepan | it will check GL's max, and user max |
| 00:48.00 | Legoguy | oh yeah i also have a woodchip picture but im not sure how easily i can make that tile |
| 00:48.18 | JeffM2501 | bzdb default max is 512 |
| 00:48.25 | JeffM2501 | most GLs do 1024 IIRC |
| 00:48.45 | trepan | my normal may stuff was mostly 2048x2048 |
| 00:48.51 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 00:49.15 | JeffM2501 | that's probably nvidia's current max |
| 00:49.54 | trepan | 4096 is not uncommon now |
| 00:50.05 | JeffM2501 | wonder what the 7800GTX does |
| 00:50.41 | trepan | my 6800: GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE = 4096 |
| 00:50.57 | trepan | (glxinfo -l) |
| 00:51.06 | JeffM2501 | cool |
| 00:51.35 | JeffM2501 | 78's probably the same then |
| 00:52.07 | JeffM2501 | could have it load difrent texture sets based on the quality setting :) |
| 00:52.34 | JeffM2501 | have low load some textures drawn in crayon |
| 00:52.44 | JeffM2501 | medium load the current |
| 00:52.51 | JeffM2501 | and high and better load some nice ones :) |
| 00:53.39 | trepan | or have it scale (right wrap-around would be nice) |
| 00:53.59 | JeffM2501 | or get rid of low and medium |
| 00:58.31 | Legoguy | saving 16 pics now, will have them up in a moment |
| 01:04.13 | Legoguy | some are better than others; this one is most likely going to be the source of the grass texture: http://turbogfx.homelinux.org/gallery/v/experimental/textures/_DSC2390.jpg.html |
| 01:04.29 | Legoguy | i took a few other grass pics but they were too wide angle (18mm) |
| 01:05.18 | Legoguy | the rest of the pics are in the same gallery |
| 01:07.41 | Legoguy | i believe im going to adjust the white balance on dsc2379 and make that the brick one |
| 01:12.26 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 01:12.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 01:15.58 | JeffM2501 | they look pretyy cool |
| 01:16.12 | JeffM2501 | don't know if they will fit the cartoon feel of the bzflag tanks and shots |
| 01:16.16 | JeffM2501 | but good pictures |
| 01:16.20 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 01:16.20 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ |
| 01:17.29 | trepan | maybe you could whip up some mountains |
| 01:17.46 | trepan | cartoon mountains... oops |
| 01:18.36 | *** join/#bzflag codergeek42 (n=peter@gentoo/developer/codergeek42) |
| 01:23.00 | Legoguy | i have some explosions that i got from the fireworks on the 4th if we need new explosions :P |
| 01:24.14 | JeffM2501 | you'd have to animate and alpha them out |
| 01:24.17 | JeffM2501 | be a lot of work |
| 01:42.35 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (i=SportChi@65.241.176.184) |
| 01:42.35 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 01:52.09 | *** join/#bzflag A-Delusion (n=A-Delusi@pool-141-158-90-152.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:59.55 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QB@adsl-153-89-191.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 02:17.26 | *** join/#bzflag QBeep (n=QB@adsl-153-89-191.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 02:17.29 | *** join/#bzflag Gimble (n=52aa7536@zeebrothers.net) |
| 02:24.00 | Legoguy | trepan: you said there was a way to set max texture size? |
| 02:25.00 | Legoguy | i spose ill check the cfg file heh |
| 02:42.51 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 02:42.51 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 02:50.04 | trepan | Legoguy: maxTextureSize (def 512) |
| 03:00.32 | Legoguy | yeah, got it, these new tex's are going to require different repeat values too which i have figured out as well |
| 03:03.13 | *** join/#bzflag shorty114 (i=shorty11@unaffiliated/shorty114) |
| 03:14.52 | *** join/#bzflag QBeep (n=QB@adsl-153-89-191.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 03:33.33 | *** join/#bzflag deadman (n=vadgoq@60-240-59-187.tpgi.com.au) |
| 03:35.35 | adeadman | anyone know how to use xrobots? |
| 03:35.53 | adeadman | one of trepans scripts |
| 03:51.07 | adeadman | /msg nickserv register lc157935 |
| 03:51.51 | a_meteorite | ... |
| 03:53.06 | trepan | adeadman: huh? |
| 03:54.29 | a_meteorite | Let's all steal his password! |
| 03:54.31 | adeadman | yo, need some help using one of your scripts |
| 03:54.31 | a_meteorite | j/k :P |
| 03:54.51 | trepan | what script? |
| 03:55.02 | dngor | Steal it? He just gave it away. |
| 03:55.08 | a_meteorite | adeadman: I think you mean Teppic's |
| 03:56.04 | adeadman | teppic? oh |
| 04:02.23 | JeffM2501 | adeadman, you just showed us all your password as well |
| 04:08.41 | adeadman | look the other way... |
| 04:08.49 | adeadman | sry |
| 04:09.07 | JeffM2501 | and best thing to get help is ether post on the fourms or send teppic a PM via the froums |
| 04:09.26 | JeffM2501 | then he can repply at his leasure |
| 04:09.37 | adeadman | thx, i gotsta go an change my password |
| 04:09.44 | adeadman | :-) |
| 04:09.58 | JeffM2501 | best of luck |
| 04:25.38 | *** join/#bzflag codergeek42 (n=peter@gentoo/developer/codergeek42) |
| 04:55.41 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QB@adsl-153-89-191.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 05:00.10 | *** join/#bzflag PKMOBILE (n=Apathy@c-69-250-236-100.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 05:47.48 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:47.48 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ |
| 06:12.19 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QB@adsl-153-89-191.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 06:12.50 | *** part/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=a_temp_d@user-12l2r0o.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 06:32.24 | *** join/#bzflag PuMpErNiCkLe (n=PuMpErNi@CPE000d8802a749-CM0012c9a9a6dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 06:47.59 | *** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@treebupf.inet.it) |
| 07:03.49 | *** join/#bzflag DarkMaster (n=Apathy@c-69-250-236-100.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 07:08.33 | *** join/#bzflag wizart (n=wizart@dslb-084-058-166-088.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 07:30.09 | *** join/#bzflag LePoulpe303 (n=olivier@AMontpellier-157-1-116-122.w86-219.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:01.15 | *** join/#bzflag Pommes (n=Pommes@pD9545372.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:49.36 | *** join/#bzflag brad (n=5808a956@zeebrothers.net) |
| 10:27.19 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (i=SportChi@65.241.176.184) |
| 10:27.19 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 10:29.28 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 10:53.33 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (n=Birdie__@d5153C08E.access.telenet.be) |
| 11:10.23 | *** join/#bzflag Skeeve (n=Skeeve@p50896C8F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:11.03 | *** join/#bzflag Electric1lf (n=dbharris@bas14-toronto12-1167997443.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 11:28.12 | *** part/#bzflag Skeeve (n=Skeeve@p50896C8F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:49.30 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak|RDP (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 11:49.31 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak|RDP] by ChanServ |
| 12:42.55 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow (n=blardebl@smtprelay.masslink.com) |
| 12:42.55 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o purple_cow] by ChanServ |
| 13:04.25 | *** join/#bzflag Saturos (n=Saturos@p57A0DCE4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:11.46 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=cc73bc2e@zeebrothers.net) |
| 13:15.27 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow_ (n=blardebl@smtprelay.masslink.com) |
| 13:19.01 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o purple_cow] by ChanServ |
| 13:23.46 | *** join/#bzflag Saturos (n=Saturos@p57A0DCE4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:53.36 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=SpazzyMc@fordend.demon.co.uk) |
| 14:02.50 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi_ (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 14:08.09 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow (n=blardebl@smtprelay.masslink.com) |
| 14:08.09 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o purple_cow] by ChanServ |
| 14:34.07 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow_ (n=blardebl@smtprelay.masslink.com) |
| 14:35.50 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o purple_cow] by ChanServ |
| 14:43.20 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow_ (n=blardebl@smtprelay.masslink.com) |
| 14:49.14 | *** join/#bzflag tokimi (n=toki@bjoerling.phys.washington.edu) |
| 14:51.17 | *** join/#bzflag A-Delusion (n=A-Delusi@pool-141-158-90-152.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 14:56.33 | *** join/#bzflag mattfp4893 (n=A_Heart_@ool-44c748c9.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 14:56.41 | *** part/#bzflag mattfp4893 (n=A_Heart_@ool-44c748c9.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 15:08.05 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=SpazzyMc@fordend.demon.co.uk) |
| 15:14.31 | *** join/#bzflag ToughShooter (n=ts@p54B02CF3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:15.39 | *** join/#bzflag NTH (n=NTH@host86-140-67-239.range86-140.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:22.23 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 15:22.24 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:28.25 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QB@adsl-153-89-191.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 15:39.44 | *** join/#bzflag amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-67-169-251-207.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 15:43.57 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 15:43.57 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 15:45.02 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@63.147.94.149) |
| 15:45.02 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 15:52.44 | *** join/#bzflag PoiNTBLaNK (n=DannyJB@ip24-251-245-57.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 16:00.58 | *** join/#bzflag Pretender^ (n=w@h88211140156.dsl.speedlinq.nl) |
| 16:01.23 | Pretender^ | hi :P |
| 16:04.36 | *** join/#bzflag PoiNTBLaNK (n=DannyJB@ip24-251-245-57.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 16:08.39 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow (n=blardebl@smtprelay.masslink.com) |
| 16:08.39 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o purple_cow] by ChanServ |
| 16:12.23 | JeffM2501 | ok so who is PoiNTBLaNK and why does he keep joining, disconeting, and changing his/her name? |
| 16:12.57 | PoiNTBLaNK | Sorry, I was running into some problems with Zone Labs. :] |
| 16:13.09 | PoiNTBLaNK | And I was linking this name to another name on IRC. |
| 16:13.45 | JeffM2501 | just seems you reconect and change a LOT over the past couple days ;) |
| 16:14.55 | PoiNTBLaNK | Yeah. :) Sorry. |
| 16:16.30 | *** join/#bzflag ryland (n=eric@CPE0000c6f0453d-CM0013718cbbf2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 16:16.45 | Pretender^ | :) |
| 16:18.43 | ryland | i'm having some issues with audio on my solaris system... could someone tell me what drivers are available to try in the audio config? |
| 16:19.18 | purple_cow | goddamnit |
| 16:19.18 | JeffM2501 | does solaris build with SDL? |
| 16:19.19 | purple_cow | too many ideas |
| 16:19.25 | ryland | yeah, it's linked to sdl |
| 16:19.33 | ryland | i tried "sdl" with no luck |
| 16:19.39 | JeffM2501 | then the drivers are what ever your SDL linked with |
| 16:19.47 | JeffM2501 | usualy alsa esd or oss |
| 16:20.18 | JeffM2501 | what lib is your sdl linked too? |
| 16:22.58 | ryland | none of those worked |
| 16:23.04 | ryland | what lib is my sdl linked to? |
| 16:23.10 | JeffM2501 | only you know that |
| 16:23.26 | JeffM2501 | you'll have to check your SDL port to know what sound system it wants to use |
| 16:23.31 | JeffM2501 | we just pass sound thru to SDL |
| 16:23.34 | ryland | ah, what audio lib you mean? |
| 16:23.42 | JeffM2501 | those driver fields are just passed to sdl envion vars |
| 16:23.44 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 16:23.45 | ryland | i see |
| 16:25.37 | ryland | it doesn't appear to be linked to libSDL_sound at all |
| 16:26.43 | JeffM2501 | that may be a problem then |
| 16:26.49 | JeffM2501 | did you build this from source? |
| 16:26.51 | ryland | yeah.. i'm going to try building it myself |
| 16:26.59 | ryland | no, blastwave.org package.. never used it before |
| 16:27.11 | ryland | a few years ago i built it myself on solaris and i recall the sound working |
| 16:27.17 | JeffM2501 | then I would ask them, we didn't make that package. |
| 16:27.24 | ryland | i know |
| 16:27.28 | ryland | if i get sound, i'll file a bug with them |
| 16:27.47 | JeffM2501 | I'd just build from source |
| 16:29.33 | ryland | yep.. downloading now |
| 16:30.56 | DTRemenak|RDP | solaris typically uses the "audio" driver |
| 16:31.25 | DTRemenak | unless you have oss installed |
| 16:32.02 | ryland | i do not |
| 16:32.12 | ryland | i just now tried "audio" with "/dev/audio" .. nothing |
| 16:32.30 | DTRemenak | k, something else is wrong then |
| 16:32.46 | ryland | i'll see how my own build works |
| 16:33.15 | DTRemenak | if you can't get it to work with sdl, you can rebuild with ./configure --disable-sdl |
| 16:33.42 | ryland | ok, i'll try that if it fails.. thanks |
| 16:33.45 | DTRemenak | you'll lose a couple features, but nothing major |
| 16:39.25 | *** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@treebupf.inet.it) |
| 16:49.39 | uso | ryland: on what machine are you running it? how fast is it? |
| 16:51.53 | ryland | uso, 1.6ghz pentium m w/ 1gb ram |
| 16:52.36 | uso | ah, on an intel, thought you were on a sparc system |
| 16:52.39 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97 (n=Theme97@adsl-68-120-85-174.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 16:53.55 | ryland | i tried it once on a U10, it wasn't much fun :P |
| 16:55.42 | uso | bummer, i thought to try it on a blade |
| 16:56.15 | uso | but the gpu's are probably too weak |
| 16:56.22 | ryland | that might not be too bad |
| 16:56.51 | ryland | one of the higher-end cards may work fine with some graphic settings tweaking |
| 16:57.27 | *** join/#bzflag mozul (n=KBC18135@ABA714.dhcp.lbnl.us) |
| 16:58.25 | uso | yes, but we have no higher-end cards there, standard cards only |
| 16:58.49 | ryland | ah |
| 16:59.00 | ryland | still, i'd try it just for fun.. blastwave has sparc packages |
| 17:06.57 | uso | JeffM2501: you can get a german server with good network connections from 15 euros per month, but if you need a lot of cpu for the listserv you have to pay a couple more |
| 17:10.04 | uso | the cheaper ones mostly only have PIII's or low-end celerons, good enough for bzflag servers, but maybe not for the listserv |
| 17:17.18 | uso | does the server still send game updates to players which are "nr"? |
| 17:19.03 | uso | with 2.0.8 i see a lot more people going "nr" from the view of others, but don't see it themself |
| 17:19.42 | uso | so they can get hit, but can't hit anybody else, leading to more cheating accusations |
| 17:30.19 | *** part/#bzflag mozul (n=KBC18135@ABA714.dhcp.lbnl.us) |
| 17:50.58 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow (n=blardebl@smtprelay.masslink.com) |
| 17:50.58 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o purple_cow] by ChanServ |
| 18:02.58 | RatOmeter | yeah, I saw one guy at "2 castles" sitting [nr] on his base. next instant, 1) he came back from nr, 2) my team flag disappeared from in front of me and 3) he capped it |
| 18:03.42 | dngor | That's a lot of lag. |
| 18:04.36 | RatOmeter | he said everyone looked [nr] to him, so as a "test" he grabbed my team flag and went to his base and waited |
| 18:05.30 | RatOmeter | I don't think the server should tolerate an [nr] player for more than about 10 seconds |
| 18:06.55 | *** join/#bzflag catay (n=smertens@85-158-210-47.powered-by.benesol.be) |
| 18:07.15 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (n=lan56@adsl-75-17-191-19.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:15.44 | SportChick | I have a hardware question. I'm looking at upgrading my HD from 60gb. I have two options (for a lappy): The 7200 rpm, 100gig drive has 625MB/Sec media transfer rate. The 5400 rpm 160gig drive has 540MB/sec media transfer rate. What would be better, do you think? |
| 18:16.44 | blast007 | the 7200 will use more battery ;) |
| 18:17.19 | SportChick | well currently, I have 7200 60gb |
| 18:17.38 | bryjen | i'm not sure the rate bytes are read off the platters matter since they won't go thru the cable to the PC nearly that fast |
| 18:18.15 | bryjen | seek times may be more meaningful |
| 18:18.20 | blast007 | yeah |
| 18:19.12 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QB@adsl-153-89-191.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 18:22.18 | SportChick | in english? |
| 18:25.18 | bryjen | "media transfer rate" = speed data is read off the actual disks by the drive's own electronics. |
| 18:28.48 | bryjen | at those rates, there will be a bottleneck transfering data to the computer, because most drives do that at 100-150 mb/s |
| 18:29.29 | SportChick | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:30.05 | bryjen | lower times (faster) is better. 1ms isn't a whole lot of difference though |
| 18:36.31 | SportChick | i currently have a 7200 60 gb. If I go with the 5400 160gb, will I notice a drop in speed? |
| 18:36.52 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=jbdigriz@206-15-67-2.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 18:36.53 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 18:38.41 | pyr0 | not necessarily sportchick, the speed is the 100-150 he speaks of, its a bottleneck because of the wires used and the manner the datas transfered... the seek time is what matters |
| 18:39.06 | SportChick | hey pyr0! :) |
| 18:39.29 | pyr0 | chances are good that your seek time on the 60 isnt much better then the 10ms on the 100. maybe by 2ms, only because of the amount of data it goes through. |
| 18:39.35 | pyr0 | hi hi dear |
| 18:39.53 | SportChick | I guess i'm just wondering whether it's worth losing the "speed" (whether real or imagined) to get the additional disc space |
| 18:40.31 | pyr0 | yes, a 5400 will run cooler then the 7200 will, and the speed isnt going to be so much off youll notice this huge death leap of a difference |
| 18:41.03 | pyr0 | you may notice a small one, due to the amount of data once again. harder to locate 1 small portion of a file on a 100gb hdd then a 60gb hdd |
| 18:41.14 | pyr0 | but then again, its newer so its usually a bit more efficent as well |
| 18:41.24 | SportChick | good to know |
| 18:41.36 | SportChick | so with 5400 my battery life will last longer AND it will run cooler? |
| 18:41.38 | pyr0 | itll use less power, so better battery, run cooler so you wont burn your legs, and itll give you that extra 40gb, which i can fill in 2 days :) |
| 18:41.49 | SportChick | actually it'll give extra 100 gb |
| 18:41.55 | pyr0 | true :) |
| 18:41.57 | SportChick | the 5400 is 160 gb |
| 18:42.20 | SportChick | ok |
| 18:42.21 | pyr0 | ohh, your first one said 2 160s, second said 160 and 100 |
| 18:42.29 | SportChick | hrm? |
| 18:42.37 | pyr0 | all the same, 1ms difference between the 2 isnt death at all |
| 18:42.48 | SportChick | the 7200 is 100gb and the 5400 is 160 gb |
| 18:42.57 | pyr0 | a 3 or 4ms might be noticed if you use the system constantly |
| 18:43.06 | pyr0 | yea, get the 160 |
| 18:43.16 | pyr0 | itll still do dandy for the application on hand |
| 18:43.35 | pyr0 | thats all that matters |
| 18:43.43 | SportChick | what do you mean if I use the system constantly? |
| 18:43.59 | SportChick | I tend to have anywhere from 5-15 applications open at once |
| 18:44.02 | ToughShooter | I think the "burn your legs" syndrome comes from the CPUs mainly ;) |
| 18:44.10 | SportChick | and firefox - I usually have about 30 tabs going |
| 18:44.12 | pyr0 | like me, i compile, i play music and i run several programs at once |
| 18:44.18 | SportChick | me too |
| 18:44.23 | pyr0 | i could notice a small difference when the hdd is being abused, but not much |
| 18:44.29 | SportChick | ok |
| 18:44.31 | pyr0 | nothing to make me say "new hdd, better seek" |
| 18:44.53 | pyr0 | and on top of all of it, i download at 800kb/s to the main hdd which is doing the compiles and pulling data for programs and music |
| 18:45.01 | SportChick | ok thanks for the advice! :) |
| 18:45.03 | pyr0 | true ToughShooter, true |
| 18:45.20 | pyr0 | it is the cpus, but itll still help keep it cool to have a cooler hdd in there |
| 18:45.29 | pyr0 | no problem love, no problem |
| 18:46.03 | pyr0 | i think i may anger meno when he hears the news from orange... |
| 18:46.16 | pyr0 | he wanted the code, more or less demanded the code from openleague |
| 18:46.47 | pyr0 | so i emailed FSF, makers of the GNU GPL, the license web-league runs under, and they say I and not required to publish my modified code anywhere if i dont want to |
| 18:47.12 | pyr0 | but i need to wash my hands, i was just trying to get to my linkage from my shifter, i broke it, i cant get out of reverse, whoops |
| 18:47.31 | SportChick | why wouldn't you? meno developed the webleague code and provided it freely. You based yours on his, did you not? |
| 18:48.33 | *** join/#bzflag banana_fish900 (n=817b4879@zeebrothers.net) |
| 18:49.30 | pyr0 | yes SportChick it is based on his. and i would have, keywords being would have, released it to him if he had asked me and not demanded we release the code to him |
| 18:49.57 | pyr0 | he told molez under the GNU GPL we needed and had to release the code and he wanted all of our modifications with it... |
| 18:50.21 | pyr0 | under the GNU GPL though, we are not required to do so if we dont want to, nor are we in need of doing so |
| 18:50.37 | orange | pyr0: I certainly never intended to make any specific accusations. I just found it interesting that was the direction it was going. |
| 18:51.43 | orange | it's an open league based on an open source game running on a codebase of open source php code running on an open source platform |
| 18:52.00 | orange | it just struck me as very odd that it would be in question |
| 18:52.25 | orange | and that it would be put to a vote from the league members, when if there is any decision to be made it ought to be yours anwyay |
| 18:56.19 | JBdiGriz | Has the binary been distributed? |
| 18:56.21 | pyr0 | it wasnt a poll to say Open source or not, it was to say, how many people want us to release our code for use elsewhere |
| 18:56.24 | pyr0 | how many want it |
| 18:56.36 | bryjen | the gpl requires source code to be provided if you distribute the program. letting people download binary exe's is distribution, but the code behind a website isn't exactly distributed by accessing that site's pages |
| 18:56.50 | SportChick | out of curiosity, what was the result of the poll? |
| 18:56.53 | pyr0 | jb, i emailed FSF and recieved a response, they state that i am not required in ANY fasion to distribute this code |
| 18:56.56 | pyr0 | unless i see fit |
| 18:57.06 | pyr0 | to release it, but that was before the meno portion |
| 18:57.26 | pyr0 | exactly bryjen, that was why i emailed them, to be sure of it |
| 18:57.32 | JBdiGriz | I'm not sure who you talked to at the FSF, but you are avoiding the question. Are you releasing the binary to anyone? |
| 18:57.54 | DTRemenak | there is no binary... |
| 18:58.08 | DTRemenak | it's a set of php pages, all interpreted |
| 18:58.13 | bryjen | or did I ? |
| 18:58.13 | DTRemenak | hehehe |
| 18:58.55 | JBdiGriz | And these php pages are only available at the web league site, so it isn't being distributed to others. |
| 19:00.11 | pyr0 | yes and yes |
| 19:00.14 | JBdiGriz | In that case, there isn't any requirement to make the source available, although you are certainly going to be branded a bad OSS citizen. |
| 19:00.37 | pyr0 | i wasnt avoiding it, i was taking the question in a slightly different manner and gave it the correct answer |
| 19:00.43 | pyr0 | just it ended up being the wrong question |
| 19:00.45 | pyr0 | :) |
| 19:01.14 | RatOmeter | say, anyone here tried the F/OSS flight sim called FlightGear? |
| 19:01.16 | JBdiGriz | Why should we make any more open source available to you if you just take it for your own purposes and give nothing back? |
| 19:01.43 | orange | this should never have been an "us vs them" situation, imho |
| 19:01.53 | orange | I don't know how it became such :-/ |
| 19:01.55 | pyr0 | no one said that i had any intention of not releasing it |
| 19:02.14 | pyr0 | i was just being positive i didnt have to fall to the "i have to release it because it was released under XXX" |
| 19:02.39 | orange | this all started because I questioned why the poll was even there |
| 19:02.39 | pyr0 | it seemed inappropriate to me that it was said in that manner, although it may have been meant in another |
| 19:02.49 | orange | it honestly never ocurred to me that it would not be released |
| 19:02.52 | pyr0 | it was just to be sure people wanted the code orange |
| 19:03.03 | pyr0 | that and i need to do quite a bit more before its release |
| 19:03.06 | pyr0 | released* |
| 19:03.13 | orange | that's not what it asked |
| 19:03.25 | pyr0 | that may be a week, or a month, or even 6, unsure. depends when i can get back to development |
| 19:03.27 | orange | nor was that the spirit in which it was answered, at least by the 'no-sayers' |
| 19:03.49 | pyr0 | well, some didnt want it released to keep it "OL Only" for lack of a better term |
| 19:04.03 | pyr0 | some dont want it to show up on Ducati, Pillbox, Mofo or GU |
| 19:04.03 | orange | right |
| 19:04.06 | orange | precisely |
| 19:04.07 | orange | closed |
| 19:04.08 | pyr0 | some want it to be there if they want it |
| 19:04.10 | orange | wrong, imho |
| 19:04.21 | pyr0 | well, that was their opinion, i voted yes personally |
| 19:04.30 | orange | fantastic :-) |
| 19:04.31 | pyr0 | as did all of the other staff |
| 19:04.34 | JBdiGriz | Who made the changes? |
| 19:04.44 | pyr0 | i did |
| 19:04.44 | orange | but was it wrong for me to question why the open league members would vote no ever? |
| 19:04.47 | pyr0 | it is my choice to make |
| 19:04.54 | orange | pyr0: yes, so why the poll? |
| 19:05.01 | orange | just to expose the 'us vs them' mentality? |
| 19:05.02 | pyr0 | but i wanted a public opinion, seeing as it a public grouping of people |
| 19:05.11 | pyr0 | no, not in any sense |
| 19:05.19 | JBdiGriz | Were you paid by the open league people to make the changes? |
| 19:05.20 | pyr0 | it was to make sure that the community agreed with me |
| 19:05.23 | pyr0 | no, i was not |
| 19:05.59 | JBdiGriz | So it's not a question of the community, it's whether you are participating in open source software development, or just taking advantage of other people's work. |
| 19:06.40 | pyr0 | it is a question of the community. i wanted the communities opinion on the matter toward whether they liked the idea of us having it and only us, or if theyd like to see it elsewhere |
| 19:06.45 | pyr0 | no matter the poll |
| 19:06.52 | pyr0 | the code was available to those who asked me directly and nicely |
| 19:06.54 | JBdiGriz | You can run polls all you want, but it's up to you to decide what to do with your own software. |
| 19:07.12 | pyr0 | not this second it isnt, but all the same, it was available to whoever asked when it was complete |
| 19:07.27 | pyr0 | until then, i may or may not have released it only due to what im still missing in the code |
| 19:07.37 | pyr0 | fixes to autoreport, sql injections in the admin panel and the such |
| 19:07.52 | JBdiGriz | And it comes up to us whether we will support any of your further endeavours. |
| 19:08.28 | pyr0 | my being supported was never the question at hand. all that ive done with the league code has been supported. if it wasnt, i wouldnt have coded it |
| 19:09.03 | pyr0 | as for being supported, if i wish to code something, ill gladly code it. if i get asked to help out with something i can help with, i will |
| 19:09.09 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@adsl-75-15-145-111.dsl.snlo01.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:09.34 | pyr0 | the support isnt an issue though, i have my own means of supporting my own path, sometimes i decide id like that support to continue |
| 19:09.45 | pyr0 | in the OL case, i only code when the idea is supported |
| 19:09.57 | pyr0 | poll, shoutbox and the updates to the admin panel have all been supported |
| 19:10.09 | pyr0 | admin logging has been supported, autoreports been supported |
| 19:10.13 | JBdiGriz | You seem to think that support is only for this one piece of software, and not from the community in general. |
| 19:10.23 | pyr0 | and i've continues with all of them. others have been dropped, other have been put off |
| 19:10.57 | pyr0 | the community does not need to support my actions with coding the web-league for OpenLeagues sake. that is OL community related |
| 19:11.21 | pyr0 | as for anything else in the BZ community, i help where I can, i get the support i need and i work from there |
| 19:12.02 | pyr0 | but at the same time, i havent been asked for much to need to be supported in BZ, therefore support from the community of BZ doesnt matter much |
| 19:12.30 | JBdiGriz | I believe I understand your rationale. You don't need to contribute anything back to the community where you got things from, and that is legally true. |
| 19:13.56 | pyr0 | 1 min, phone |
| 19:14.20 | Mr_Molez | JBdiGriz: he was all along going to release the code dont put words into his mouth ;) |
| 19:14.28 | Mr_Molez | infact one league is already using his code |
| 19:14.50 | orange | why the poll? |
| 19:14.54 | orange | that's what was confusing I think |
| 19:15.04 | orange | and the fact that people actually voted no |
| 19:15.14 | orange | shocking, in this open-source game community |
| 19:15.21 | Mr_Molez | i dont know why the poll, but people have the right to their own opinions :P |
| 19:15.30 | JBdiGriz | I don't think I put any words into his mouth. I stated a simple legal rationale which he is following. I never claimed he would or wouldn't release it. |
| 19:15.39 | Mr_Molez | orange: trepan coded ahod code, i dont see that relased :p |
| 19:16.12 | JBdiGriz | Is trepan using the code for his own benefit? |
| 19:16.14 | orange | perhaps he has other reasons, but I'm relatively sure it wasn't based on a poll of ahod players |
| 19:16.17 | pyr0 | actually orange, you do understand the pole, you said you did earlier when i explained it |
| 19:16.45 | Mr_Molez | orange: no i was just giving an example of how some people dont release everything in the name of open source |
| 19:16.47 | pyr0 | as for JBdiGriz, i would love to contribute back to the bz community, and i try my best, but sometimes there isnt much i can do |
| 19:17.04 | SportChick | pyr0: you do more than me :D |
| 19:17.08 | orange | pyr0: no, I still don't understand the poll, nor people's responses, sorry |
| 19:17.36 | pyr0 | i offer hosting to anyone who needs help with it, i hosted htfleague when it was running, i hosted bzb when it was around, i still host images and maps for people when i can |
| 19:17.41 | JBdiGriz | That's an interesting position to take. You can't contribute back to the bz community, but you need to take a poll to determine if you can contribute back to the bz community. |
| 19:17.46 | pyr0 | i tried to run rpgs map site until my previous host shut down |
| 19:18.05 | pyr0 | actually, the point was not whether or not my code would be released |
| 19:18.23 | pyr0 | the point, as i explained earlier, was to see which of the users wanted us to keep it OL Only |
| 19:18.29 | pyr0 | not saying it would be ol only in that sense |
| 19:18.36 | pyr0 | but that it would be released upon request only |
| 19:18.43 | orange | perhaps it was worded poorly |
| 19:18.46 | pyr0 | as opposed to a tarballed file for download |
| 19:18.51 | pyr0 | true, it may have been |
| 19:18.59 | a_meteorite | pyr0: you need to understand if you do close-source OL, there will be others that will do what you're doing and then open-source it |
| 19:19.02 | pyr0 | but the point has been explained here, not 3 times by 2 people |
| 19:19.15 | pyr0 | true a_meteorite, true... but like i said |
| 19:19.24 | pyr0 | after the poll, before the meno and orange portions |
| 19:19.40 | pyr0 | i had intentions of ending the poll after 1 week, and posting either a link to a tarball if i fixed the sql injection |
| 19:19.51 | pyr0 | or posting saying the poll failed and it would be by request only |
| 19:19.54 | pyr0 | so request away |
| 19:19.55 | a_meteorite | I didn't even get a chance to vote, pooey. |
| 19:20.00 | pyr0 | that was the position i took |
| 19:20.03 | JBdiGriz | Do you feel you gained a substantial advantage by starting with meno and orange's sources? |
| 19:20.04 | a_meteorite | and I missed most of it |
| 19:20.06 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:20.07 | orange | I'm still not sure how I fit into this, other than asking why OL members would consider *not* releasing it |
| 19:20.21 | orange | I wasn't an author |
| 19:20.24 | Pretender^ | hi |
| 19:20.25 | Pretender^ | :P |
| 19:20.26 | pyr0 | sorry JBdiGriz, but i didnt understand that one |
| 19:20.29 | orange | just asked a question |
| 19:20.54 | pyr0 | well, it was how your post was probably brought the poll to menos attention and led to all of this |
| 19:20.57 | JBdiGriz | You took someone else's software and modified it for your own use. Why didn't you start entirely on your own? |
| 19:21.14 | orange | sure, I told meno, I thought he'd be interested |
| 19:21.15 | pyr0 | ahh that, ok then... because why fix what isnt broken |
| 19:21.21 | pyr0 | why not improve upon what works |
| 19:21.38 | pyr0 | exactly, that was how you were brought into this orange |
| 19:21.44 | pyr0 | nothing more |
| 19:22.10 | pyr0 | and it isnt something personal against you or meno either, nor was the poll to not give back to the community |
| 19:22.42 | JBdiGriz | It's a good idea to improve upon what works, but it's also a good idea to do so in the same spirit as it was provided to you. Again, you aren't legally required to do so, and that seems to make the most difference to you. |
| 19:23.23 | pyr0 | i checked the legal portion of it all, yes |
| 19:23.26 | pyr0 | but for one reason |
| 19:23.44 | pyr0 | i saw what meno told Mr_Molez and took it as he was threatening us legally with the GNU GPL |
| 19:24.00 | pyr0 | so i wanted to clarify for my own sake as well as OpenLeagues sake to ensure that we are in the clear |
| 19:24.50 | a_meteorite | pyr0: I think I might of caught up now, so you're saying you won't release your source mods JUST because meno didn't ask you right? |
| 19:25.02 | pyr0 | close, but no |
| 19:25.04 | a_meteorite | that's pretty harsh considering there are others |
| 19:25.07 | pyr0 | your mostly caught up |
| 19:25.16 | JBdiGriz | You are in the clear. Legally you have no responsibility. OTOH, you are unlikely to get anything further from meno, or anyone else who finds your stance morally bankrupt. |
| 19:25.34 | pyr0 | the point was that i wanted to ensure that myself and Openleague were not at fault if we decided to hold off on it for a while longer |
| 19:26.08 | Mr_Molez | JBdiGriz: what you want to hear is blinding you from the truth ;) |
| 19:26.10 | pyr0 | true JBdiGriz, but it isnt the question of my stance ... since that has been pointed out several times over this conversation |
| 19:26.14 | Admirarch | (I'm fairly sure meno doesn't actually want to use the code) |
| 19:26.28 | pyr0 | as am I Admirarch, as am I |
| 19:26.46 | pyr0 | it seemed rude in the manner he asked for it |
| 19:27.05 | pyr0 | or, as it seemed, a beat around the bush manner of telling us he wanted it and gnu gpl said we had to give it to him |
| 19:27.49 | a_meteorite | (um, ooook... I really don't see what's the whole fuss over some code is, but oh well) |
| 19:27.54 | a_meteorite | time to eat. |
| 19:29.42 | orange | DB's deleted post summarized what I felt was the attitude of the folks who voted NO to release the software |
| 19:29.58 | orange | in typical DB language, but you have to read past that |
| 19:30.05 | Mr_Molez | orange: i had to delete that because shoutbox is not yet finished coding |
| 19:30.12 | Mr_Molez | he swore and i had no way of editing that one word |
| 19:30.13 | pyr0 | well, for my sake, i wasnt there for it... |
| 19:30.27 | pyr0 | my edit code is having one permissions issue which i havent gotten to fixing |
| 19:30.39 | orange | and pyr0, if you didn't see DB's post, then you don't know why I said "gracious as always :-)" to him |
| 19:30.45 | pyr0 | and molez doesnt understand phpmyadmin or sql, so he didnt have another means to do so |
| 19:30.46 | orange | because it was pretty vile |
| 19:30.53 | DTRemenak | hmm, does this channel seem rather warm to anyone else? |
| 19:30.57 | Mr_Molez | orange: unless u want people swearing everywhere, if thats your thing fine, but it aint mine |
| 19:30.57 | pyr0 | i dont doubt it in the slightest |
| 19:31.18 | orange | Mr_Molez: not at all, but it leaves holes |
| 19:31.24 | orange | which can be confusing |
| 19:31.31 | Mr_Molez | well once its finished coding there will be less holes :P |
| 19:31.32 | orange | deleting some lines of a conversation makes context difficult :-) |
| 19:31.36 | Mr_Molez | but it aint finished :) |
| 19:31.43 | pyr0 | all the same, the swear filter isnt up, and the edit code has a permissions flaw |
| 19:31.53 | Mr_Molez | orange: sorry you may like people swearing, i wont tolerate it |
| 19:32.25 | pyr0 | plus, hes and admin if i remember right, which may be the other reason, permissions may be fine... but i disabled admin editing when an admin edited my posts before i had the admin logging up |
| 19:32.34 | orange | Mr_Molez: I'm nto sure why you keep saying that, because that isn't my point at all |
| 19:33.24 | pyr0 | all the same, forget the shoutbox, i didnt catch all of it so it's beyond me |
| 19:33.24 | Mr_Molez | oh ok |
| 19:33.27 | orange | the *only* reason I pointed out the deleted post was it left other things out of context |
| 19:33.39 | orange | so it might mislead people as to the intent of some comments |
| 19:33.43 | orange | (like catay) |
| 19:33.46 | SportChick | I'm off to lunch, but pyr0, blast007 and bryjen, thanks for the HW advice. |
| 19:34.02 | pyr0 | adios SportChick, ill be around later to talk with you :P |
| 19:34.14 | SportChick | okies :) |
| 19:35.09 | tokimi | cu SportChick |
| 19:35.12 | pyr0 | all the same orange, Admirarch and JBdiGriz, i had every intention of releasing the code, in either a limited fasion by request only or by a full on tar.gz for all |
| 19:35.22 | pyr0 | it was the poll that would decide that factor |
| 19:35.22 | orange | pyr0: excellent |
| 19:36.24 | pyr0 | menos messages to Mr_Molez made me wonder why he wouldnt, A) come to me directly as every occassion has been in the past where i updated code a bit with features, the old coder always came to me and not the site owner, and i always released with that |
| 19:36.42 | pyr0 | and then also B), the wording that he used seemed rude and inappropriate for the situation |
| 19:36.54 | orange | I haven't seen it, but perhaps it was formal rather than rude |
| 19:36.55 | pyr0 | as well as it seemed like he was attempting a form of legal threat for the code |
| 19:37.02 | pyr0 | when all he had to do was ask |
| 19:37.39 | pyr0 | this is what Mr_Molez posted in the OpenLeague channel, yesterday if i remember correctly |
| 19:37.39 | orange | honestly, pyr0, I think it was because the wording of the poll indicated a possible intent to never release it |
| 19:37.43 | pyr0 | 12:01 | @Mr_Molez> 18:26 <menotume> are you aware that the license on web-league code is GPL ? |
| 19:37.46 | pyr0 | 12:01 | @Mr_Molez> 18:26 <menotume> on sourceforge: License: GNU General Public License (GPL) |
| 19:37.50 | pyr0 | 12:01 | @Mr_Molez> 18:27 <menotume> that that i particularly want any changes that you made, just an FYI |
| 19:37.53 | pyr0 | sorry for that, but its only 3 lines |
| 19:38.09 | pyr0 | i do believe that, yes |
| 19:38.14 | orange | the poll (as I recall) said "Should the OL code be made public?" |
| 19:38.21 | orange | it's gone now, so I don't know for sure |
| 19:38.29 | pyr0 | yes, by made public i should have worded it differently |
| 19:38.46 | orange | and some (DB for example) definitely took it the same way I did |
| 19:38.57 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow (n=blardebl@smtprelay.masslink.com) |
| 19:38.57 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o purple_cow] by ChanServ |
| 19:39.01 | orange | because he was emphatic that none of the other whiners should benefit from OL's work :-) |
| 19:39.07 | pyr0 | all i know is that i didnt see any admins vote against it |
| 19:39.25 | orange | so that would be the reason I asked |
| 19:39.38 | orange | and the reason menotume made his point (which didn't seem rude at all, actually) |
| 19:40.12 | pyr0 | to me it did, because it was directed to someone he knew had no knowledge of software licensing and who he also knew had nothing to do with the code development process |
| 19:40.37 | pyr0 | and then the manner in which, as ive said, was a beat around the bush fasion to say "i want it, tis gnu gpl, you need to release it" |
| 19:40.41 | pyr0 | that is how i saw it |
| 19:40.47 | orange | hmmm, to me, it was sent to the head of the league that was asking if that league's code would be released |
| 19:40.51 | pyr0 | not "Release it, |
| 19:40.53 | pyr0 | " |
| 19:40.53 | orange | also seems reasonable, but anyway |
| 19:40.57 | pyr0 | but instead "release it to me" |
| 19:41.16 | pyr0 | yes and no, the reason i was offended by that action was simple really |
| 19:41.55 | pyr0 | all other codes ive developed on, from simple blogs to forums to mmorpgs, it was always the head dev who came to me, the non owner of the site but the head coder |
| 19:42.02 | pyr0 | never once did it fail |
| 19:42.17 | pyr0 | and i always released it to them, no questions, no qualms |
| 19:42.28 | tokimi | talking to the "owner" is the formal way of doing it, yes. |
| 19:42.28 | pyr0 | i would never have denied any of them that right to their own code with the modifications |
| 19:42.50 | pyr0 | yes, i understand that, but it has never happened in that manner before |
| 19:42.53 | pyr0 | that is what bothered me the most |
| 19:43.01 | pyr0 | that is what i took as the most offensive portion of it all |
| 19:43.31 | tokimi | pyr0: you really seem to have been cought in the middle of some back ground bad blood |
| 19:43.55 | pyr0 | all the same, its over ... we all understand what the poll was saying, we understand the plan, and we know my morals and that they arent a problem here |
| 19:44.33 | pyr0 | tokimi: that in itself is the weird part... ive associated with a little of everyone, from you and SportChick to Mr_Molez and Death Barrel |
| 19:44.50 | pyr0 | in between i have people like moonpix and catay |
| 19:45.11 | pyr0 | i get along with most anyone without issue. that is my personality |
| 19:45.16 | tokimi | pyr0: well, being in the middle means shots will be fired over your head.... it happens (i know...) |
| 19:45.30 | pyr0 | yep, happens all the time |
| 19:45.35 | tokimi | yup |
| 19:45.38 | pyr0 | price to pay i suppose |
| 19:45.55 | tokimi | but hey, we all shoot each other on bz any way, so in that respect, its all good |
| 19:46.01 | pyr0 | exactly |
| 19:47.02 | JBdiGriz | You can ignore the way things are said, and assume the best intentions from everyone until they start really being intentionally rude/crude. |
| 19:47.04 | orange | well, pyr0, for what it's worth, I didn't even know you were the coder or what your involvement was, so it definitely couldn't have been personal :-) |
| 19:47.34 | pyr0 | I've even associated with you orange, so I didnt take what you said as personal |
| 19:47.36 | pyr0 | no worried there |
| 19:48.02 | pyr0 | meno, who I've also associated with, I did take a bit personally, but that was for different reasons then most would expect |
| 19:48.17 | pyr0 | mmm, but I was never rude or crude JBdiGriz |
| 19:48.51 | JBdiGriz | Exactly so. Neither was anyone else, so I am assuming the best intentions. |
| 19:48.58 | pyr0 | :P |
| 19:49.08 | orange | Mr_Molez took care of the only rude and crude comments about it |
| 19:49.43 | pyr0 | but, now that I've babbled for most of an hour, I believe it is time to go and try to fix the linkage so I can go to school soon, otherwise, I'm making a call and renting a car, heh |
| 19:49.44 | JBdiGriz | In that one case, I would not assume the best intentions, but I would rather avoid that. |
| 19:49.48 | pyr0 | out of options here |
| 19:49.56 | pyr0 | adios and good day |
| 19:50.08 | a_meteorite | maybe if we lart everyone we'll all feel better? :) |
| 19:50.14 | a_meteorite | ~lart * |
| 19:50.27 | JBdiGriz | a_meteorite: Are you feeling bad? |
| 19:50.42 | a_meteorite | JBdiGriz: Nah, this all just seems over the top to me |
| 19:51.11 | a_meteorite | And a *little* saddened that we may never see some of OL's nice features |
| 19:51.22 | a_meteorite | So, technically, yes I guess so |
| 19:51.26 | JBdiGriz | I don't think anyone else is feeling bad either. We discuss issues here, and open source development is at the core of a lot of what we do. |
| 19:51.47 | a_meteorite | quite true |
| 19:51.53 | orange | a_meteorite: pyr0 says he intends to release the code |
| 19:51.55 | orange | one way or another |
| 19:52.02 | a_meteorite | orange: that's good to hear |
| 19:52.16 | orange | some of this was just misunderstanding, bad wording, and hurt feelings |
| 19:52.20 | a_meteorite | I don't meno intended to be rude, he was just being formal |
| 19:52.27 | a_meteorite | which is what I would have done |
| 19:52.31 | orange | heck, I don't even think it was that formal |
| 19:52.41 | orange | but everyone hears things differently, and that's life |
| 19:52.48 | JBdiGriz | I believe orange pointed out the only possibility of rude behavior, and that's over and done with. |
| 19:53.04 | orange | correct |
| 19:53.49 | a_meteorite | Great, no hurt feelings. :) |
| 19:54.33 | JBdiGriz | You will have lots more opportunities to get hurt feelings over realities. Don't look for more of them! |
| 19:55.24 | a_meteorite | I don't look for hurt feelings. I avoid them like the plague. ;) |
| 19:56.04 | Birdie | JeffM2501: is it possible to put a sound for pausing a countdown? |
| 19:56.12 | Birdie | (in the next release) |
| 19:57.12 | *** join/#bzflag Xe11 (n=z@p54875EB1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:58.13 | RatOmeter | I dislike infighting when it comes to F/OSS. |
| 19:58.36 | orange | heh, I doubt a single project has avoided it, once the # developers exceeds 1 |
| 19:59.09 | JBdiGriz | GPL vs BSD (and then we get to the various revisions!) |
| 20:00.09 | RatOmeter | Only slightly related, a dutch feller I know refuses to open any of his source, cause the inventor of XModem accused him of lifting his code for a compatible implementation |
| 20:00.50 | RatOmeter | and I *really* wanted the source to his XYZ plasma cutter/router table |
| 20:02.55 | A-Delusion | ~logs |
| 20:02.56 | ibot | [logs] http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/, or stats http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/bzflag.html.gz |
| 20:06.57 | *** join/#bzflag amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-67-169-251-207.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:10.56 | *** join/#bzflag PoiNTBLaNK (n=DannyJB@ip24-251-245-57.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 20:12.55 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QB@adsl-153-89-191.lft.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:13.36 | dngor | ~help |
| 20:16.58 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 20:16.59 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 20:17.14 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@24-159-201-32.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 20:17.25 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=SpazzyMc@fordend.demon.co.uk) |
| 20:17.26 | *** part/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=SpazzyMc@fordend.demon.co.uk) |
| 20:26.55 | RatOmeter | er, twasn't the inventor of Xmodem that accused my friend of lifting code, twas Chuck Forsberg, of Ymodem fame |
| 20:29.42 | *** join/#bzflag zee990 (n=54ae8102@zeebrothers.net) |
| 20:33.16 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (n=gnurdux@c-69-251-233-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 20:33.38 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (n=lan56@adsl-75-17-191-19.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:35.09 | *** join/#bzflag PuMpErNiCkLe (n=PuMpErNi@CPE000d8802a749-CM0012c9a9a6dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:37.51 | JeffM2501 | Birdie, anything is possible |
| 20:37.55 | JeffM2501 | someone just has to write it |
| 20:40.21 | Birdie | well as code noob, i would need some one for that:) |
| 20:40.23 | Birdie | but its not hard to do i think? |
| 20:40.32 | Birdie | its just like a capture, but than a pause:) |
| 20:41.36 | *** part/#bzflag zee990 (n=54ae8102@zeebrothers.net) |
| 20:42.05 | JeffM2501 | is it even sent to the client? |
| 20:45.08 | *** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@host60-148.pool8256.interbusiness.it) |
| 20:51.33 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (i=SportChi@65.241.176.184) |
| 20:51.33 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 21:09.50 | CBG | Would there be a way to setup an "outgoing filter" on a client? So that the player can not say certain things? |
| 21:10.20 | RatOmeter | what purpose would that serve? |
| 21:10.35 | RatOmeter | or, should I say, what kind of things? |
| 21:10.47 | CBG | It would stop me getting mad and being a jerk. :" |
| 21:10.52 | CBG | :| * |
| 21:11.24 | RatOmeter | ah, software technology hasn't quite reached that level yet. In the next 30 years, I'm guessing |
| 21:11.24 | JeffM2501 | or can't you just read before you hit enter ;) |
| 21:11.34 | CBG | JeffM2501: nope, sorry. |
| 21:11.48 | JeffM2501 | computers can't solve all your problems then ;) |
| 21:11.50 | CBG | I can't control myself once I am mad. |
| 21:12.05 | DTRemenak | then you would just turn off your own controls, eh? |
| 21:12.20 | CBG | DTRemenak: you mean, before I get mad? |
| 21:12.34 | RatOmeter | CBG: I'm with you. I seriously considered a compile time option to disable chat ;) |
| 21:12.36 | JeffM2501 | if you were REALY mad, you'd turn off the filter |
| 21:12.40 | JeffM2501 | so it's pointless |
| 21:12.44 | DTRemenak | no...when you get mad, and realize that what you say does not go through, you'd turn it off |
| 21:12.59 | CBG | Well, I would think it was hard-coded in so to speak. |
| 21:13.00 | JeffM2501 | better to just learn how to deal with people in the real world like an adult, and not relly on tech to protect you. |
| 21:13.08 | CBG | Not something you just "turn off" with one key stroke. |
| 21:13.18 | RatOmeter | that's why it'd have to be a compile time option |
| 21:13.31 | JeffM2501 | bzflag cybernanny |
| 21:13.34 | JeffM2501 | code it up ;) |
| 21:13.37 | CBG | obviously. |
| 21:13.44 | CBG | JeffM2501: heh... |
| 21:13.52 | JeffM2501 | it's not funny it's what your asking for |
| 21:13.59 | RatOmeter | you'd be runnng a binary that had no chat, by the time you quit your game to switch clients, you'd be cooled off or tired of the effort |
| 21:14.31 | JeffM2501 | yeah just silence everyone, then you won't get mad |
| 21:14.39 | *** join/#bzflag Minkus (i=Minkus@cpc3-colc4-0-0-cust99.colc.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:14.39 | CBG | JeffM2501: "code it up" was a little less helpful than I was hoping for. :) |
| 21:14.50 | JeffM2501 | or unbind your "n" key |
| 21:14.52 | CBG | I silence a lot of people now, AFTER I get mad. |
| 21:15.08 | CBG | and I did unbind my n key earlier. |
| 21:15.15 | JeffM2501 | the problem solved |
| 21:15.18 | RatOmeter | I like JeffM's "unbind the n key" |
| 21:15.22 | CBG | But, sadly I cannot do this BEFORE I get mad. |
| 21:15.23 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (i=lan56@adsl-75-17-183-88.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:15.25 | JeffM2501 | I think the root of your problem is the anger, not the software |
| 21:15.28 | JeffM2501 | why don't you work on that part |
| 21:15.30 | CBG | I cannot predict when I will get mad. |
| 21:15.38 | CBG | I do, I am, I will. |
| 21:15.40 | JeffM2501 | but you CAN deal with it in an adult way |
| 21:15.47 | CBG | But I think I'm just a generally angry person. |
| 21:15.59 | JeffM2501 | that statement dosn't make it right |
| 21:16.03 | CBG | I don't think I can. Not yet anyway. |
| 21:16.10 | CBG | I didn't say it was right. |
| 21:16.16 | CBG | It was just a statement. |
| 21:16.47 | JeffM2501 | you must take the game way too seriously if you get realy mad about it |
| 21:17.04 | CBG | Yup. |
| 21:17.12 | JeffM2501 | have you ever thought about decaf? |
| 21:17.19 | blast007 | hehe |
| 21:17.25 | CBG | ... |
| 21:18.14 | CBG | It would be possible to hardcode in a chat filter (that filters what I say) though? |
| 21:18.25 | JeffM2501 | anything is possible |
| 21:18.27 | JeffM2501 | it just takes code |
| 21:18.34 | JeffM2501 | so yes, it's possilbe |
| 21:18.43 | JeffM2501 | just move the server filter over |
| 21:18.50 | CBG | Ok, thanks. |
| 21:19.05 | JeffM2501 | and hook it up |
| 21:20.09 | JBdiGriz | a pair of scissors to the network connection should solve all of the problems. |
| 21:20.09 | JeffM2501 | that too |
| 21:20.10 | JeffM2501 | a good firewal |
| 21:20.17 | CBG | *sigh* |
| 21:20.20 | JBdiGriz | air gap firewall |
| 21:20.21 | RatOmeter | or a microwave oven with the door interlocks jimmied if wireless |
| 21:20.57 | JeffM2501 | technology isn't always the best solution for social problems |
| 21:21.01 | JeffM2501 | it can be the cause of them |
| 21:21.02 | RatOmeter | er, that might create a hotter "firewall" |
| 21:21.35 | JBdiGriz | technology is rarely the best solution for social problems. |
| 21:21.47 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak|RDP (n=DTRemena@c-24-23-59-104.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:21.47 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak|RDP] by ChanServ |
| 21:22.12 | JeffM2501 | his best solution may just be a swift kick in the butt ;) |
| 21:22.22 | JBdiGriz | that would get him mad. |
| 21:22.37 | JeffM2501 | well by some parentals |
| 21:23.10 | JBdiGriz | Parenting skills are another social problem which is being made worse by technology. |
| 21:23.16 | JeffM2501 | true nuf |
| 21:23.39 | RatOmeter | you mean I should be doing less playing of bzflag and more parenting of my 2 kids?! |
| 21:23.57 | lan56 | hey don't blame this on bzflag! :) |
| 21:24.21 | JeffM2501 | ignoring kids for a silly game like bz, that's sad |
| 21:24.27 | JBdiGriz | My kids are working together to figure out how to buy a game console and share it. They are also putting together the plans for how they will share it. |
| 21:24.30 | JeffM2501 | now if it was WoW.. that's another story ;) |
| 21:24.50 | JBdiGriz | "ignoring"? I shoot them! |
| 21:25.01 | TD-Linux | you still have them? |
| 21:25.09 | TheBarron | wow |
| 21:25.11 | PuMpErNiCkLe | People still make those? |
| 21:25.12 | Theme97 | You shoot them? What gun? |
| 21:25.13 | TheBarron | what a freakin baby |
| 21:25.16 | TheBarron | CBG |
| 21:25.18 | JeffM2501 | what console they gonna get? |
| 21:25.48 | JBdiGriz | the barrel of a bztank, of course. Everyone has there own computer and there's a lan at home. |
| 21:26.03 | JeffM2501 | TheBarron, sadly he's another closet youth of today, learning how to deal with the rest of the world. seems to be a common problem. |
| 21:26.50 | TD-Linux | I can deal with the world in a very easy way, but when I do deal with them that way, they don't like it :) |
| 21:26.51 | TheBarron | "can't control myself" "can't predict when I'll get mad" |
| 21:27.01 | TheBarron | what a selfish, moronic little tard :) |
| 21:27.12 | JeffM2501 | no need to get mean |
| 21:27.16 | TimRiker | ok, tone it down. |
| 21:27.19 | JBdiGriz | They are deciding on the gamecube. |
| 21:27.28 | TD-Linux | gamecube? |
| 21:27.29 | JeffM2501 | JBdiGriz, many good fun famialy games for that one |
| 21:27.35 | TD-Linux | suppose the price has dropped... |
| 21:27.38 | JeffM2501 | it's all about the mario cart :) |
| 21:27.54 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@cpc4-stme1-0-0-cust103.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:27.56 | JBdiGriz | That's the reason for it. :D |
| 21:27.59 | TD-Linux | I have a DS... I prefer it to Gamecube simply because I can play in bed :) |
| 21:28.14 | TD-Linux | I don't have any game consoles at all, in fact |
| 21:28.15 | JeffM2501 | it's all about mario cart on the DS too :) |
| 21:28.22 | TD-Linux | mario kart is a fun game |
| 21:28.34 | TD-Linux | and you can play it on the Internet too :) |
| 21:28.39 | TD-Linux | though it only supports WEP |
| 21:28.53 | JBdiGriz | We don't have any game consoles, just various computers. They have decided they want the console, and they are willing to work for it. |
| 21:29.13 | JeffM2501 | fair nuf |
| 21:29.24 | JBdiGriz | They have a couple of gameboys, but that can't be shared as easily. |
| 21:29.30 | JeffM2501 | and a word of advice.. wavebirds.. they are worth every penny. |
| 21:29.52 | TD-Linux | I interfaced to a PS2 controller once |
| 21:30.04 | CBG | TMI! |
| 21:30.11 | TD-Linux | to get the vibrators to work, I had to translate a Japanese document piece by piece with various translators :) |
| 21:30.22 | JeffM2501 | now that taken out of context.... |
| 21:30.22 | CBG | T! M! I! |
| 21:30.29 | TheBarron | heh |
| 21:30.33 | TheBarron | yeah.. I had to go back a few lines |
| 21:30.55 | JeffM2501 | cube games come on those cute little disks too :) |
| 21:30.55 | JBdiGriz | Right now, they aren't thrilled with the wireless controllers. They have noticed problems with them. |
| 21:30.59 | TheBarron | I had missed the fact we were talking about PS2 controllers. I thought 'wow, he's serious about his.. ' |
| 21:31.11 | RatOmeter | heh, I had fun with the NEC powerglove interfaced to a PC, back in the day. |
| 21:31.22 | JeffM2501 | the wavebird is the only wireless controller I used that worked as well or better then the corded ones. |
| 21:32.01 | CBG | Wireless controllers don't seem a particularly good idea to me. |
| 21:32.07 | TheBarron | NES |
| 21:32.11 | JeffM2501 | for a console they are great |
| 21:32.24 | CBG | At the end of the day, you can't get too far from the console/screen anyway - since you need to SEE the screen. |
| 21:32.28 | JeffM2501 | specialy if you have things that run between the couch and the TV |
| 21:32.36 | JeffM2501 | dogs, kids.. etc.. |
| 21:32.41 | CBG | Ah, that's true. |
| 21:32.47 | CBG | I guess I am used to playing in my room. |
| 21:32.59 | JeffM2501 | most people don't sit that close to 32 inch or larger TVs |
| 21:33.01 | CBG | Wait... |
| 21:33.11 | CBG | 32 inch? |
| 21:33.13 | JeffM2501 | or at least shouldnt |
| 21:33.16 | JeffM2501 | umm yeah |
| 21:33.25 | JeffM2501 | our 42 is about 15 feet away |
| 21:33.32 | CBG | Geez. Mines like, 14 inch. |
| 21:33.32 | JeffM2501 | really needs wireless |
| 21:33.42 | JeffM2501 | oh |
| 21:33.48 | JeffM2501 | yeah then you don't need a wavebird |
| 21:33.54 | CBG | Yeah. :P |
| 21:34.05 | JeffM2501 | if it's gonna be that small, play on the PC |
| 21:34.13 | CBG | We can agree for once here. With 30+ inch screens, yeah, get wireless. :P |
| 21:34.22 | CBG | JeffM2501: my iBook is 12 inch. |
| 21:34.29 | CBG | So it's all pretty much evens. |
| 21:34.30 | JeffM2501 | to each ther eown |
| 21:34.32 | JeffM2501 | own |
| 21:34.48 | CBG | Though I gave my PS2 to my brother, since I never play it anymore. |
| 21:34.52 | CBG | BZ is the only game for me. |
| 21:35.36 | CBG | Oh, not counting the old mac classics - Spectre, Dirt Bike, etc. Though I just never get around to playing those. |
| 21:35.58 | TheBarron | heh.. I didn't know there WERE old mac classic games ;) |
| 21:36.14 | JeffM2501 | yeah those are prety old |
| 21:36.17 | CBG | Sure, games from like, 10-15 years ago are great. |
| 21:36.23 | JeffM2501 | coudn't get specter to run on the mini |
| 21:36.31 | CBG | Maelstrom is another one. The original asteroids I think. |
| 21:36.39 | CBG | JeffM2501: ah, bummer, your missing out. |
| 21:36.46 | JeffM2501 | not realy |
| 21:36.56 | JeffM2501 | maelstrom is NOT the origonal asteroids ;) |
| 21:37.04 | CBG | It's like single player BZ, with funky-ass graphics. |
| 21:37.05 | JeffM2501 | not even close :) |
| 21:37.14 | CBG | Aw, well it still rocked. |
| 21:37.25 | JeffM2501 | it was fun for a clone yes |
| 21:37.35 | JeffM2501 | origonal asteroids didn't even have pixels |
| 21:37.39 | CBG | lol |
| 21:37.50 | JeffM2501 | vector display |
| 21:37.56 | JeffM2501 | same as battlezone |
| 21:38.15 | CBG | ahha |
| 21:38.32 | CBG | What about Dirt Bike, remember that one? |
| 21:38.45 | CBG | Oh, and Sim City - though that's less of a "Classic". |
| 21:39.06 | CBG | And of course, my all time fave: (Escape from) Monkey Island! :D |
| 21:39.30 | CBG | I got the files for that recently, and with ScummVM... MI back in all it's glory. |
| 21:39.52 | CBG | Completed it in two sittings, would have been one if I didn't start it at 3 AM... |
| 21:40.02 | TD-Linux | I have Sim City for OS/2 |
| 21:40.14 | CBG | what version? |
| 21:40.23 | CBG | I remember "Sim City 2000" i think. |
| 21:40.23 | TD-Linux | 2.1 or 3.1, forgot which |
| 21:40.30 | CBG | o.O |
| 21:40.32 | TD-Linux | this is SimCity *one* |
| 21:40.36 | TD-Linux | the first |
| 21:40.49 | CBG | heh |
| 21:40.51 | TD-Linux | 8x8 tile grid |
| 21:40.54 | TD-Linux | 16 colors |
| 21:40.55 | CBG | :D |
| 21:41.01 | TD-Linux | or was it 256, I forgot |
| 21:41.08 | CBG | I _want_ it! |
| 21:41.20 | TD-Linux | OS/2 refuses to run at anything other than 640x480x16 in VMware |
| 21:41.36 | TD-Linux | CBG: I got an asteroids clone too, but with aliens :) |
| 21:41.46 | CBG | heh |
| 21:41.55 | TD-Linux | one of them traps you inside it, along with any asteroids it has caught, and grinds you to pieces |
| 21:42.36 | CBG | eek |
| 21:42.57 | TD-Linux | and the original Sokoban |
| 21:43.11 | CBG | Uh, didn't like that. |
| 21:43.21 | TD-Linux | It's like my favorite game EVER ;) |
| 21:43.22 | CBG | Dunno if I played the original or what, but... :| |
| 21:43.27 | TD-Linux | 'cept for BZFlag |
| 21:43.36 | CBG | goes without saying. |
| 21:59.41 | *** join/#bzflag menotume (n=meno@pdpc/supporter/active/menotume) |
| 21:59.42 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v menotume] by ChanServ |
| 22:00.59 | RatOmeter | I think a 6502 was at the heart of the gfx board |
| 22:06.38 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (i=SportChi@65.241.176.184) |
| 22:06.38 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 22:10.40 | *** join/#bzflag Ballard (n=Administ@stjch2-12-46-85-176.stjohncable.com) |
| 22:23.21 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow (n=david@zero.navi.cx) |
| 22:23.21 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o purple_cow] by ChanServ |
| 22:26.17 | *** join/#bzflag Ballard (n=Ballard@stjch2-12-46-85-176.stjohncable.com) |
| 22:59.21 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, does commandLine for plugins stay valid? |
| 23:00.45 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 23:00.59 | Theme97_ | ? |
| 23:01.30 | Gnurdux | JeffM2501, plugins get passed a char pointer with their command line args |
| 23:01.36 | Gnurdux | does it stay valid, or not |
| 23:01.48 | JeffM2501 | outside of the function you mean? |
| 23:01.53 | Gnurdux | yes |
| 23:01.56 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 23:02.00 | Gnurdux | ok |
| 23:02.13 | JeffM2501 | why would it? |
| 23:02.14 | a_meteorite | can't you make a new var with them :) |
| 23:02.24 | JeffM2501 | he can copy the data easy |
| 23:04.09 | JeffM2501 | plugins should not hang onto ram allocated by bzfs |
| 23:04.23 | JeffM2501 | same as bzfs should not do anythign with allocaitons from the plugin |
| 23:04.28 | JeffM2501 | as they are in difrent modules |
| 23:04.35 | JeffM2501 | and if one frees the other, it's bad |
| 23:09.26 | JeffM2501 | what are you doing with it Gnurdux ? |
| 23:09.55 | Gnurdux | using it to get the command line of a program to pipe to |
| 23:10.13 | JeffM2501 | and you need it to be scoped outside of that function? |
| 23:10.20 | Gnurdux | yes |
| 23:10.27 | Gnurdux | don't worry i got it |
| 23:10.32 | JeffM2501 | and you didn't want to copy it? |
| 23:11.07 | Gnurdux | yes, but now i got it |
| 23:11.14 | JeffM2501 | ok |
| 23:11.27 | JeffM2501 | in geneal it's good style to copy the data you NEED to keep around. |
| 23:11.37 | JeffM2501 | so your not dependent on anyone else jacking your cheese |
| 23:12.48 | JeffM2501 | good thing I made a copy first ;) |
| 23:16.19 | JeffM2501 | cp ./bzflag/src ../bzflagcopy |
| 23:16.26 | JeffM2501 | there ya go |
| 23:16.33 | trepan | -r |
| 23:17.34 | Legoguy | all of a sudden bzflag is refusing to load a valid, working png image |
| 23:17.58 | DTRemenak | Legoguy: got a link? |
| 23:18.05 | Legoguy | to the image? |
| 23:18.08 | Legoguy | one moment |
| 23:18.09 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 23:18.57 | Legoguy | http://turbogfx.homelinux.org/gallery/v/experimental/textures/grass-gimp.png.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1 |
| 23:19.16 | Legoguy | im playing with it in the data/ directory, new base textures |
| 23:20.00 | Legoguy | yeah sorry its on my home server so its going to be a while to download x_x |
| 23:20.26 | DTRemenak | tis ok |
| 23:20.38 | DTRemenak | it's....large :) |
| 23:20.43 | Legoguy | ;) |
| 23:22.08 | a_meteorite | Legoguy: is that ready as a drop in replacement? |
| 23:23.21 | Legoguy | i was hoping so, however the tiling should be changed, thats what i was working on, i just made the texture darker and then bam |
| 23:23.26 | Legoguy | it stopped working |
| 23:23.53 | JeffM2501 | bzflag may be reading it, your driver may not be showing it ;) |
| 23:23.59 | JeffM2501 | does bz generate an error? |
| 23:24.04 | Legoguy | "couldnt load grass-gimp" |
| 23:24.08 | Legoguy | or whatever |
| 23:24.09 | JeffM2501 | wierd |
| 23:24.30 | Legoguy | "cannot load texture: grass-gimp" and the ground is white |
| 23:25.34 | Legoguy | lemme try and optipng it |
| 23:26.01 | DTRemenak | it looks good to me |
| 23:26.04 | DTRemenak | the file, that is |
| 23:26.12 | Legoguy | hmm, optipng fixed it |
| 23:26.23 | Legoguy | looks like bzflag might have some problems loading large png's :/ |
| 23:26.39 | *** join/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=a_temp_d@user-12l2r0o.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 23:27.44 | DTRemenak | or a myriad of other possibilities. it's got several hundred IDAT chunks, for one thing |
| 23:28.38 | JeffM2501 | nice, it'll take up 3 megs of card ram just for that texture, not counting the mips :) |
| 23:29.03 | *** join/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=a_temp_d@user-12l2r0o.cable.mindspring.com) |
| 23:29.40 | DTRemenak | that's assuming we're smart and don't load the alpha texture off of it |
| 23:29.40 | Legoguy | who says this will be the final resolution :P |
| 23:29.47 | JeffM2501 | we don't |
| 23:29.54 | JeffM2501 | that I am prety sure of |
| 23:29.55 | DTRemenak | we must be smart then |
| 23:30.00 | Legoguy | optipng removed the alpha channel |
| 23:30.03 | JeffM2501 | well we are less dump :) |
| 23:30.07 | JeffM2501 | dumb |
| 23:32.21 | DTRemenak | where do we put our debug channel output on windows? |
| 23:32.35 | JeffM2501 | by default |
| 23:32.36 | JeffM2501 | nowhere |
| 23:32.50 | JeffM2501 | if you have echo it'll put stdout.txt in the current working dir |
| 23:32.58 | JeffM2501 | assuming your talking about client |
| 23:33.42 | DTRemenak | yeah |
| 23:34.04 | DTRemenak | we have a PNGImageFile: Z_STREAM error |
| 23:35.04 | JeffM2501 | single mips of that would only take 4 megs, not too bad :) |
| 23:35.30 | JeffM2501 | anisotropic...another thing entirely |
| 23:35.36 | DTRemenak | changes our texture ram requirement from 12mb to 16mb anyway :) |
| 23:36.25 | JeffM2501 | interesting, going down to a 512 makes it take only 1 meg |
| 23:36.34 | JeffM2501 | wonder how the visual quality is |
| 23:37.05 | Legoguy | well after fiddling around with it, it does seamlessly tile, but it visually repeats quite a bit |
| 23:37.15 | JeffM2501 | it's cus of the perspective |
| 23:37.16 | DTRemenak | Z_BUF_ERROR in zlib |
| 23:37.28 | JeffM2501 | the blades on the left have a difrent perspective then those on the right |
| 23:37.32 | JeffM2501 | cus that's where the camera was |
| 23:37.38 | JeffM2501 | so you end up with a "bubble" in the middle |
| 23:37.50 | JeffM2501 | it's one problem with repeating photo textures |
| 23:38.00 | JeffM2501 | longer lenses help a lot |
| 23:38.06 | JeffM2501 | less field of view |
| 23:39.08 | Legoguy | need to be higher off the ground however |
| 23:39.32 | Legoguy | my macro 75-300 might be able to do well |
| 23:39.53 | JeffM2501 | macros are the worse |
| 23:40.02 | JeffM2501 | basicly you want as little fisheye as possible |
| 23:40.09 | Legoguy | however its 94F outside, heat index 96.5 |
| 23:40.13 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 23:40.31 | Legoguy | well at 75mm its more of a 'close focus' than 'macro' |
| 23:40.33 | JeffM2501 | you can illustrate the problem by ligning up a bunch of blocks |
| 23:40.50 | JeffM2501 | you'll see the right side of the ones on the left, and the left side of the ones on the right |
| 23:40.58 | Legoguy | yeah |
| 23:41.04 | JeffM2501 | no amount of photoshop clone tool will fix that ;) |
| 23:41.07 | Legoguy | nope |
| 23:41.27 | JeffM2501 | what I've seen people do for grass is overlay a couple difrent shots and mix them up |
| 23:41.31 | JeffM2501 | and blend them |
| 23:41.35 | Legoguy | yeah |
| 23:41.37 | JeffM2501 | so you don't have a single focal point |
| 23:41.45 | Legoguy | i might end up doing that |
| 23:42.02 | JeffM2501 | also doing a detail texture on the ground with a difrent repeat helps |
| 23:42.27 | Legoguy | eh? |
| 23:42.36 | Legoguy | didnt quite catch that |
| 23:42.47 | JeffM2501 | basicly put a seperate texture with an alpha over your texture |
| 23:42.54 | JeffM2501 | that repeats at a difrent rate |
| 23:43.00 | JeffM2501 | so it breaks up the bubble |
| 23:43.01 | Legoguy | oh, well isnt that better done in program |
| 23:43.05 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 23:43.15 | JeffM2501 | bz supports more then one ground texture |
| 23:43.22 | Legoguy | oh really O_O |
| 23:43.29 | JeffM2501 | yeah world object IIRC |
| 23:43.34 | Legoguy | semitransparent too? |
| 23:43.40 | JeffM2501 | yeah they are layerd |
| 23:43.46 | JeffM2501 | assuming I commited the code for it |
| 23:43.48 | JeffM2501 | I think I did |
| 23:43.49 | Legoguy | lol |
| 23:44.26 | JeffM2501 | or maybe it scans the dirs for like "ground_1.png", "ground_2.png", etc.. |
| 23:44.28 | Legoguy | so if i get some nice textures set up, would something like that be doable stock instead of only by world choice? |
| 23:44.28 | JeffM2501 | don't remember |
| 23:44.40 | JeffM2501 | have to see them |
| 23:44.41 | Legoguy | hmm |
| 23:44.51 | JeffM2501 | I'd rather not increase the download |
| 23:45.06 | JeffM2501 | and I'm not sure the photo images fit the toon like feel of bz |
| 23:45.19 | Legoguy | hmm. idea |
| 23:45.34 | JeffM2501 | but I'd be willing to put them on the default image hosting, so they can be used in any map out of the box. |
| 23:46.00 | JeffM2501 | and I'm not the only one to decide ;) |
| 23:46.33 | Legoguy | why not use all four channels of the image, each one considered a luminance map, one on red, green, blue etc and just apply a standard green color to each, and make those the four (if we even need 4) overlays |
| 23:46.54 | Legoguy | not luminance |
| 23:46.57 | Legoguy | value |
| 23:47.01 | JeffM2501 | we used to do that |
| 23:47.08 | JeffM2501 | rgb images look better |
| 23:47.16 | *** join/#bzflag triclops (n=triclops@203-158-48-238.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 23:47.19 | JeffM2501 | a lot better |
| 23:47.28 | Legoguy | heh didnt know you used to do that :P |
| 23:47.58 | JeffM2501 | many of the old textures were just grayscale and we blended geometry color with them |
| 23:48.01 | JeffM2501 | ground |
| 23:48.02 | JeffM2501 | tanks |
| 23:48.04 | JeffM2501 | flags |
| 23:48.05 | JeffM2501 | etc.. |
| 23:48.21 | JeffM2501 | in 2.0 the ctf flags are still done that way |
| 23:48.47 | JeffM2501 | it has a tendency to wash out the image, as with a simple blend the white in the image goes out to just the color |
| 23:49.01 | JeffM2501 | there are some better blending modes, but not all cards/systems support them IIRC |
| 23:49.15 | JeffM2501 | best would be to proceduraly generate the grass using a shader |
| 23:49.24 | JeffM2501 | pulling from a number of images |
| 23:49.31 | JeffM2501 | and deforming based on trafic ;) |
| 23:52.26 | Legoguy | ill tell you what though, this brick texture, on the other hand.. |
| 23:52.29 | Legoguy | works quite well |
| 23:52.39 | DTRemenak | Legoguy: there you go |
| 23:52.44 | CIA-6 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * 10bzflag/src/mediafile/PNGImageFile.cxx: don't treat input exhastion as an error. fixes loading of PNGs where the IDAT size is less than the size of a single scanline. |
| 23:52.53 | JeffM2501 | yeah stuff with lower depth values have the problem less |
| 23:53.07 | Legoguy | aha |
| 23:53.16 | DTRemenak | your picture was very large and gimp divided it into very small chunks :) |
| 23:53.19 | JeffM2501 | the closer the edges are to the focal plane the better it is |
| 23:53.34 | DTRemenak | ~spell exhaustion |
| 23:53.41 | DTRemenak | thought so |
| 23:53.55 | Legoguy | http://turbogfx.homelinux.org/gallery/v/experimental/textures/brick-tile-2.png.html thats the resized-by-gallery version, 1024x1024 is the fullsize link |
| 23:54.14 | JeffM2501 | got a screenshot of it in game? |
| 23:54.21 | Legoguy | yeah sec |
| 23:57.54 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (n=lan56@adsl-75-5-13-243.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:58.09 | Legoguy | http://turbogfx.homelinux.org/gallery/v/experimental/textures/bzfi0005.png.html |
| 23:58.34 | Legoguy | those mountains really do need work don't they. |
| 23:58.57 | JeffM2501 | nice |
| 23:58.59 | Legoguy | i should get my friend in New Zealand to take some nice photos for me |
| 23:59.00 | JeffM2501 | yeah they do |
| 23:59.26 | JeffM2501 | tho at scale, those'd be some big ass bricks ;) |
| 23:59.48 | DTRemenak | http://www.swordofkahless.com/bzf-newtex.png exhibits both new textures at 1024x1024 |
