| 00:01.38 | Mr_Molez | 1vs1 5160 is has the bug now |
| 00:01.45 | Mr_Molez | if anyone wants to take a look |
| 00:01.46 | wizart | what bug ? |
| 00:01.59 | Mr_Molez | 1vs1.pimpi.org 5160 |
| 00:02.01 | CBG | it's on the list for me.. |
| 00:02.04 | JeffM2501 | did your server send out the update? |
| 00:02.17 | JeffM2501 | it's nothing that can be seen by loging in |
| 00:02.22 | JeffM2501 | check your d log |
| 00:02.25 | JeffM2501 | see if it sent the message |
| 00:02.29 | JeffM2501 | and what it got back |
| 00:02.31 | JeffM2501 | if anything |
| 00:02.33 | CBG | it's not his server, Mr_Molez |
| 00:02.36 | Mr_Molez | CBG: there are people playing on the server, but the list isnt showing that |
| 00:02.43 | CBG | Mr_Molez: ah, yes, right. |
| 00:02.49 | JeffM2501 | you have to see if you sent the message |
| 00:02.55 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: still trying to get it to happen, ive left dddd in the config |
| 00:03.08 | JeffM2501 | untill you can get that to happen there is nothing to see |
| 00:03.22 | JeffM2501 | just loging into the server dosn't show anything about the list server |
| 00:03.29 | Mr_Molez | i was just saying if anyone wants to see what i mean , or wants to see what is happening, its happening on 1vs1.pimpi.org 5160 now |
| 00:03.50 | JeffM2501 | and I'm saying we can't see what's happening just buy the effects ;) |
| 00:04.17 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: i can read |
| 00:04.24 | JeffM2501 | I know |
| 00:10.27 | wizart | Actually both servers don't show up when someone is in. |
| 00:10.39 | Mr_Molez | wizart: thats the bug i was talking about :P |
| 00:10.40 | wizart | Or don't show the players |
| 00:10.49 | Mr_Molez | its really annoying |
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| 02:47.15 | a_meteorite | ~logs |
| 02:47.17 | ibot | logs is, like, http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/, or stats http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/bzflag.html.gz |
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| 04:17.15 | DTRemenak_Srv | apachectl start |
| 04:17.18 | DTRemenak_Srv | ww |
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| 04:44.15 | nick125_lappy | blah! |
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| 15:53.47 | pyr0 | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=8765&highlight= |
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| 15:54.36 | pyr0 | any chance one of you could take a shot at that, at this point, I dont want to try and figure that out, only because it has me a little stumped |
| 15:55.30 | JeffM2501 | oh I'm senind a reply now :) |
| 15:56.53 | JeffM2501 | you can't do global auth unless the server is -public |
| 15:57.02 | JeffM2501 | userdb and passdb are bad |
| 15:57.56 | pyr0 | mmmk, i didnt know that one :) |
| 15:58.05 | JeffM2501 | if you want the server to not list, then just do -advertise NOBODY |
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| 15:58.10 | JeffM2501 | the list server does the global login |
| 15:58.21 | JeffM2501 | so if you don't list with the list server, then it can't do the logins for you |
| 16:00.47 | pyr0 | :) tis why your the developer and im not |
| 16:01.16 | JeffM2501 | I didn't write that one :) |
| 16:01.21 | JeffM2501 | would not have done it the way it was done |
| 16:02.30 | pyr0 | did you manage to get 'your way,' for lack of a better wording, in 2.1? |
| 16:02.41 | JeffM2501 | for what? |
| 16:05.40 | pyr0 | the manner in which bz handles global logins |
| 16:05.57 | JeffM2501 | oh |
| 16:06.06 | JeffM2501 | that's up to others |
| 16:06.54 | JeffM2501 | the people who actualy implement it |
| 16:07.11 | JeffM2501 | and our hands are somewhat tied due to having to support 2.0, and use the same data |
| 16:08.19 | pyr0 | you need to keep what is sent and recieved more or less the same? |
| 16:08.32 | pyr0 | that must suck |
| 16:08.42 | JeffM2501 | well only for 2.0 clients |
| 16:08.52 | JeffM2501 | we can have new info for new cliens |
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| 16:09.10 | JeffM2501 | the 2 versions don't have to use the same list server |
| 16:09.16 | JeffM2501 | they do have to use the same database |
| 16:09.25 | pyr0 | mmk then, was wondering because you said you needed to use the same data to support 2.0 |
| 16:09.36 | pyr0 | so i assumed 2.2 would use the same as well :) |
| 16:09.44 | pyr0 | :P |
| 16:09.52 | JeffM2501 | just the same users and groups |
| 16:10.04 | JeffM2501 | it can have it's own transport mechanism |
| 16:10.27 | pyr0 | you win, my curiousity has subsided :) |
| 16:10.45 | JeffM2501 | I just had an idea, someone else would have to implement it |
| 16:10.53 | JeffM2501 | someone more network and sql savy then I |
| 16:12.04 | pyr0 | off i run to play a bit before work... adios. thanks for the information :) |
| 16:12.32 | JeffM2501 | have fun |
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| 17:07.09 | SportyGal | ~wake [dmp] |
| 17:07.10 | ibot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on [dmp] and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
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| 17:17.18 | findlay | ~bzfrag SportyGal |
| 17:17.20 | ibot | ACTION tries to kill SportyGal, but SportyGal finds the shield flag |
| 17:18.32 | SportyGal | hrm |
| 17:18.36 | SportyGal | ~lart findlay |
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| 17:45.30 | amcnabb | JeffM2501 and brlcad, I just posted two patches to Sourceforge. I'd love to see them merged in if there aren't any problems with them. |
| 17:46.30 | a_meteorite | amcnabb: not that I can merge anything in myself, what do these patches do? |
| 17:46.51 | amcnabb | I posted the descriptions up there, but the short answer is: |
| 17:47.57 | amcnabb | They don't change anything under normal operation, but they make it easier to do stuff in headless mode. |
| 17:48.18 | amcnabb | I've been using them privately for a while. |
| 17:48.23 | a_meteorite | ahh |
| 17:49.05 | a_meteorite | that would be good for bots :) |
| 17:49.09 | amcnabb | YEp. |
| 17:49.31 | amcnabb | We're still in testing, but we're about ready to release some bot-related stuff that I think is really cool. |
| 17:49.39 | a_meteorite | but 2.2 will be including server-side bots (although this is pretty good for 2.0) |
| 17:49.42 | amcnabb | And if I like it, it must be great. :) |
| 17:49.50 | a_meteorite | heh |
| 17:49.56 | amcnabb | There is still great value in client-side bots. |
| 17:50.28 | amcnabb | I think that in the end it's best to allow them to run on either side. |
| 17:50.36 | a_meteorite | right |
| 17:50.44 | brlcad | amcnabb: glad to hear the work is still progressing |
| 17:50.51 | brlcad | is the patch against HEAD iI hope? |
| 17:50.52 | amcnabb | If you're curious, we have a half-done page at http://bzrc.cs.byu.edu/ |
| 17:50.57 | amcnabb | brlcad, yep. |
| 17:51.00 | brlcad | great! |
| 17:51.02 | brlcad | http://bzrc.cs.byu.edu |
| 17:51.07 | brlcad | ~ww |
| 17:51.08 | ibot | Wrong window pansie |
| 17:51.09 | brlcad | http://bzrc.cs.byu.edu |
| 17:51.13 | brlcad | dammmmit |
| 17:51.15 | amcnabb | :) |
| 17:51.19 | amcnabb | ibot's a genius |
| 17:51.32 | brlcad | and my browser isn't responding apparently.. |
| 17:52.20 | a_meteorite | that AI is way over my head ;) |
| 17:52.35 | amcnabb | We have some other patches, but we're still making sure they work on Windows before we submit anything. |
| 17:52.39 | a_meteorite | such as "Kalman filters" |
| 17:52.49 | amcnabb | a_meteorite, it sounds more complicated than it really is. |
| 17:52.53 | amcnabb | It's actually a lot of fun. |
| 17:53.30 | a_meteorite | well, in plain English terms what exactly is a Kalman filter? :) |
| 17:53.49 | amcnabb | To the uninitiated, it's a set of nasty equations. |
| 17:53.56 | a_meteorite | heh |
| 17:54.09 | amcnabb | It does magic to remove the effect of noise in observations. |
| 17:54.15 | a_meteorite | ahh I see |
| 17:54.29 | a_meteorite | so basically all the "stuff" works together to make an AI engine? |
| 17:54.36 | a_meteorite | ie, equations |
| 17:54.49 | amcnabb | It's a useful part of an AI engine. |
| 17:55.10 | amcnabb | You can watch a tank moving, and even though each of your readings is incorrect/noisy, you can almost pinpoint where it is. |
| 17:55.28 | a_meteorite | ah, I see what you mean |
| 17:55.51 | amcnabb | Normal BZFlag doesn't add noise to measurements, but we make our students deal with the harsh realities of life. :) |
| 17:56.04 | a_meteorite | will this be applicable to "normal" BZFlag use? |
| 17:56.10 | a_meteorite | like a better bot engine? |
| 17:56.32 | amcnabb | We make it easy to write your own. :) |
| 17:56.39 | a_meteorite | heh |
| 17:56.46 | amcnabb | I admit that most of my goals are educational. |
| 17:57.04 | amcnabb | But there's something cool about seeing BZFlag being used in a class. |
| 17:57.18 | a_meteorite | certainly |
| 17:58.54 | a_meteorite | looks very interesting I must say |
| 17:59.17 | amcnabb | I think so. :) |
| 18:01.54 | brlcad | now that I have my browser working .. |
| 18:02.13 | brlcad | amcnabb: the site looks great.. the glass looks spectacular ;) |
| 18:02.16 | brlcad | s/glass/class/ |
| 18:02.25 | amcnabb | Thanks. |
| 18:02.27 | brlcad | the keyboard is just not behaving for me today |
| 18:02.46 | amcnabb | TimRiker has talked about coming down for the class tournament some time. |
| 18:03.28 | amcnabb | It really is a lot of fun to get a team of students to face off against the best of the bot teams at the end of the tournament. |
| 18:04.13 | a_meteorite | Are there any students (that we may know already but aren't aware of it) that play BZFlag? |
| 18:04.35 | a_meteorite | Over the Internet, that is. ;) |
| 18:05.13 | amcnabb | The BYU UUG (Unix Users Group) has a BZFlag tournament every once in a while. I'm not sure if we have a lot of serious players, but there are a lot of people down here that are familiar with the game. |
| 18:05.35 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 18:05.36 | amcnabb | And findlay (who's on #bzflag right now) is a student in the area. |
| 18:06.00 | a_meteorite | ~bzfrag findlay |
| 18:06.02 | ibot | ACTION squishes findlay with a steamroller |
| 18:06.04 | a_meteorite | ;) |
| 18:06.34 | ToughShooter | I wonder if any bot would make it against some of the best bz players |
| 18:06.42 | a_meteorite | Heh, one of your bots should be named "ibot" in honor. |
| 18:06.50 | amcnabb | :) |
| 18:07.12 | brlcad | amcnabb: i'm sure there are other devs (myself included) that would love to see the tournament sometime too |
| 18:07.16 | a_meteorite | ToughShooter: That would be nice to get the source that all the students put together and actually find out! :D |
| 18:07.44 | brlcad | my work with AI was one of the main reasons I first started developing with bzflag |
| 18:07.50 | a_meteorite | I really would like to see a bot who makes "smart" jumps, I can't wait to see what comes out of this. |
| 18:08.04 | brlcad | not because bz had anything remotely useful back then, but it makes for a great platform to work with |
| 18:08.09 | a_meteorite | And better dodging. :) |
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| 18:08.32 | amcnabb | Unfortunately, students have to balance their classes, so we don't tend to get phenomenal bots in the amount of time people have. |
| 18:08.37 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 18:08.39 | a_meteorite | true |
| 18:08.42 | ToughShooter | dodging itself is not so bad with the standard bots |
| 18:09.08 | a_meteorite | Basically, a well-rounded bot. Good rico, good dodging, and smart jumps. :) |
| 18:09.18 | ToughShooter | Just the autopilot one plays horrible with jumping and the solo ones aren't jumping at all |
| 18:09.23 | a_meteorite | heh |
| 18:09.42 | brlcad | amcnabb: do any of the students delve into GAs or even evolve some GP behavioral? |
| 18:09.50 | a_meteorite | The solo ones always time their shots just right. It can get annoying. :P |
| 18:09.51 | ToughShooter | Well, regarding the rico it would not be fair |
| 18:10.02 | ToughShooter | The bot would have some kind of cheat |
| 18:10.09 | amcnabb | brlcad, in general there just isn't time. |
| 18:10.20 | orange | ToughShooter: you have to build in error :-) |
| 18:10.21 | brlcad | isn't time?? :) |
| 18:10.28 | amcnabb | :) |
| 18:10.34 | amcnabb | We have another class that focuses on GAs |
| 18:10.35 | ToughShooter | orange: huh? |
| 18:10.35 | a_meteorite | I thought current bots now aren't affected by stealth and other flags a real player would carry. |
| 18:10.44 | orange | ToughShooter: so the rico isn't so accurate |
| 18:10.44 | amcnabb | The Intro to AI covers a _lot_ of ground. |
| 18:10.55 | ToughShooter | yeah |
| 18:10.55 | brlcad | i worked on something like that in my agent based simulation class back years ago as a project |
| 18:11.02 | brlcad | ahh, it's an intro course |
| 18:11.13 | brlcad | mebbe not then |
| 18:11.21 | brlcad | is there a final project or is this the final project? |
| 18:11.23 | ToughShooter | Of course many people are already using a cheat that would come close to the bot's advantage |
| 18:12.32 | amcnabb | brlcad, it would be nice. |
| 18:12.42 | amcnabb | There are a number of BZFlag labs. |
| 18:12.43 | brlcad | a GA approach that actually used the potential fields would be very interesting |
| 18:13.03 | amcnabb | At the end, the tournament involves making a coherent strategy using a variety of techniques. |
| 18:13.16 | amcnabb | Students can do whatever they want, but there's limited time. |
| 18:15.52 | amcnabb | brlcad, here's the class schedule for this last spring: http://aml.cs.byu.edu/~kseppi/cs470sp06wiki/index.php/Schedule |
| 18:17.37 | brlcad | yeah that's a pretty packed schedule and very short timeframe .. just two months? |
| 18:18.06 | amcnabb | In Fall/Winter, it's the same material in four months. But people take twice as many classes in Fall/Winter as in Spring/Summer. |
| 18:18.25 | brlcad | ahh, summer session.. gotya, didn't notice that |
| 18:18.44 | amcnabb | But, yes, it's a lot of material. |
| 18:19.05 | brlcad | still a little odd to leave out evolutionary topics.. :) |
| 18:19.20 | amcnabb | It would be cool if the Neural Net/Machine Learning class used BZFlag, too, but they take a different approach (not a bad approach) |
| 18:19.35 | brlcad | i was going to say and neural nets for that matter |
| 18:19.50 | amcnabb | The CS Dept here covers basic evolutionary topics in the Algorithms class (which is required for everyone) |
| 18:20.01 | brlcad | heh |
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| 18:20.16 | amcnabb | Intro to AI is an elective, as is the Neural Networks/Machine Learning class which focuses on evolutionary topics. |
| 18:20.34 | amcnabb | Times have changed. :) |
| 18:21.06 | brlcad | but the book hasn't afaik :) |
| 18:21.15 | amcnabb | But seriously, stochastic algorithms are incredibly important nowadays. |
| 18:21.26 | brlcad | or is your algorithms class not using the std mcgraw hill beast |
| 18:21.43 | amcnabb | I can't remember what the book is, but I don't think it's the Mcgraw Hill one. |
| 18:23.21 | brlcad | anyhow, the work looks great.. the patches seem pretty straightforward to integrate mostly |
| 18:23.28 | amcnabb | Cool. |
| 18:23.49 | amcnabb | Hey. I just looked it up. They use "Fundamentals of Algorithmics" by Brassard and Brately |
| 18:23.58 | brlcad | ahh |
| 18:24.16 | amcnabb | http://vv.cs.byu.edu/~tonga/cs312/schedule.html |
| 18:24.28 | amcnabb | It's probably a lot different than a classical algorithms class. |
| 18:27.45 | brlcad | oh wow, yeah that's pretty different |
| 18:27.48 | brlcad | sort of a mix of some "applied algorithms" and data structures course |
| 18:27.48 | amcnabb | Yeah. The "data structures" course is also a bit of a mix, if I remember correctly. |
| 18:27.56 | amcnabb | Anyway, I'd better run. |
| 18:28.02 | amcnabb | I'll have some questions tomorrow about the best way to do this or that. |
| 18:28.32 | brlcad | okay, sounds good |
| 18:28.37 | amcnabb | Thanks for everything. |
| 18:29.03 | brlcad | thanks for your work, very interesting |
| 18:29.13 | amcnabb | Bye. |
| 18:29.14 | brlcad | might get you to help directly integrate this ;) |
| 18:34.53 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=spldart@cpe-68-201-209-199.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 18:35.31 | spldart | wow... Virc curled up it's toes and crashed :-/ |
| 18:35.50 | brlcad | what a world.. what a worlds.. |
| 18:48.01 | spldart | speaking of worlds.. what makes a busy world? |
| 18:48.46 | spldart | What attracts people to one playable world over another? |
| 18:50.01 | Mr_Molez | the amount of people :P |
| 18:50.38 | spldart | ooOOoo original... Don't quit your day job :-p |
| 18:51.04 | Chestal | yep, but remember: noone visits that server anymore because it is always full |
| 18:51.34 | Mr_Molez | what server ? |
| 18:52.13 | Chestal | works for any popular server :-) |
| 18:52.22 | *** join/#bzflag Noodleman (n=tuckerm@74.137.182.66) |
| 18:52.26 | Mr_Molez | :P |
| 18:53.11 | SportyGal | Noodleman: ?! wow! |
| 18:53.24 | Noodleman | yay!! |
| 18:53.30 | brlcad | howdy tucker |
| 18:53.44 | Noodleman | what shakes? |
| 18:53.45 | brlcad | how's the brains? |
| 18:53.50 | Noodleman | the brains hurt |
| 18:54.04 | brlcad | getting full? |
| 18:54.18 | SportyGal | Noodleman: where have you BEEN? |
| 19:11.56 | CBG | What is the first value for with /roampos |
| 19:12.09 | CBG | ? |
| 19:40.45 | spldart | interesting problem.. cannot connect to bzflag.blackhole.cx is it just me? I get fine connections on the other servers |
| 19:45.30 | Mr_Molez | brlcad: ping |
| 19:49.45 | Mr_Molez | brlcad: has someone called EVIL JAH been banned from my.bzflag.org/bb ? |
| 19:50.53 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host81-156-237-58.range81-156.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:01.09 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 20:01.09 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 20:12.41 | Mr_Molez | JeffM2501: do you know if somebody called EVIL JAH has been banned from my.bzflag.org/bb ? |
| 20:12.53 | JeffM2501 | sounds familiar |
| 20:12.57 | JeffM2501 | very familiar |
| 20:13.24 | JeffM2501 | I don't see a name ban for that name tho |
| 20:13.28 | JeffM2501 | we usualy do IP |
| 20:14.12 | JeffM2501 | why? |
| 20:14.24 | Mr_Molez | he said he could register because he is banned |
| 20:14.35 | Mr_Molez | nevermind :P |
| 20:14.38 | JeffM2501 | umm ok |
| 20:14.48 | Mr_Molez | couldn't login rather |
| 20:15.09 | Mr_Molez | but there was no - or + next to his name so i guess it isn't even registered |
| 20:15.48 | JeffM2501 | IIRC that was one of the spam/troublemakers |
| 20:15.58 | JeffM2501 | so yes I think they were probalby IP baned |
| 20:16.02 | JeffM2501 | or email banned |
| 20:16.10 | Mr_Molez | ok |
| 20:16.23 | Mr_Molez | i remember there was alot of jah names |
| 20:16.30 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 20:16.33 | JeffM2501 | many were the same guy |
| 20:16.34 | Mr_Molez | master jah evil jah |
| 20:16.42 | Mr_Molez | they all seemed to disappear at the same time :P |
| 20:18.28 | *** join/#bzflag [NP]Tangent (n=hyperdev@71-211-212-80.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 20:19.01 | [dmp] | master jah was the worst of the two. (if they where two). No Evil Jah is back as KingOfWars. |
| 20:19.36 | Mr_Molez | ive saw both names today |
| 20:19.42 | Mr_Molez | kingofwars and evil jah |
| 20:22.58 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 20:22.58 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 20:34.44 | orange | he is using both names, but he's the same guy |
| 20:34.52 | orange | as soon as he went back to 'evil jah' he started being annoying again |
| 20:34.54 | orange | seemed proud of it |
| 20:35.08 | JeffM2501 | common trait |
| 20:38.12 | JeffM2501 | isn't bad just anoying |
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