| 00:00.20 | [NP]Tangent | I'll switch when 2.2 is out |
| 00:01.58 | *** join/#bzflag delusional_ (n=A-Delusi@pool-141-158-104-202.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:03.01 | [NP]Tangent | heh |
| 00:03.06 | [NP]Tangent | soundclick is becoming the new myspace |
| 00:04.00 | I_Died_Once | I want to give peopel a decent somewhere to play when testing |
| 00:04.31 | I_Died_Once | and do MoFo's part to help 2.1 come along |
| 00:05.06 | CBG | soundclick? :/ |
| 00:05.25 | CBG | "Free MP3 music download and much, much more." sounds illegal... :P |
| 00:08.14 | [NP]Tangent | what I do on it isn't |
| 00:08.20 | [NP]Tangent | occasionally someone goofs though |
| 00:08.34 | [NP]Tangent | it's mostly just normal people posting up the music they make |
| 00:20.37 | spldart | I'm not 'a decent somewhere' :( |
| 00:24.05 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97_ (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 00:52.14 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi_ (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 00:55.18 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=A-Delusi@pool-141-158-104-202.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:33.15 | Legoguy | are intentional laggers (as a method of cheating) known to exist? |
| 01:34.28 | blast007 | probably |
| 01:34.43 | delusional | oh yes, they take screenshots to walk through walls |
| 01:34.54 | SportChick | Legoguy: there are certainly ways to manipulate lag and jitter to a player's advantage |
| 01:35.21 | Tropican8 | There's several cheaters who spike their lag somehow to avoid getting shot, etc. |
| 01:35.34 | Legoguy | then i suggest you ban PwnMaster from Missile War |
| 01:35.52 | SportChick | Legoguy: however, just because someone HAS lag does by no means mean they are cheating |
| 01:36.04 | SportChick | and lag is variable - it goes up and down depending on network conditions |
| 01:36.38 | Legoguy | i’ve seen him go nr just in time to go through a building and come back right after he’s through; he’s unkillable by SW |
| 01:37.28 | SportChick | you never know who is listening |
| 01:37.45 | SportChick | oops, wrong channel,sorry |
| 01:37.56 | Legoguy | i was gonna say :P |
| 01:38.00 | delusional | that's a wallwalker, alright |
| 01:40.37 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97 (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 01:45.32 | *** join/#bzflag A_Heart_Attack (n=A_Heart_@ool-44c75115.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 01:46.24 | spldart | How come I can't wall walk? |
| 01:46.37 | A_Heart_Attack | wall walk |
| 01:46.38 | A_Heart_Attack | ? |
| 01:47.25 | spldart | I can't 'wallwalker' for some reason |
| 01:47.28 | SportChick | spldart: we took away your balancing pole ;) |
| 01:47.38 | spldart | Poo |
| 01:47.58 | CBG | Wall wallking is passing through an unpassable object, often by using F5... |
| 01:48.05 | CBG | wall walking* :/ |
| 01:48.17 | Tropican8 | and its bad! Don't do it! |
| 01:48.23 | CBG | Indeed. |
| 01:48.48 | spldart | Doesn't matter.. It's not bad if I do it on my server with noone else around... just wondering why I can't do it |
| 01:48.49 | SportChick | forgive me for pointing out the obvious, but IF you are aware of ways to cheat, perhaps it's better NOT to advertise them in an open channel... |
| 01:49.29 | spldart | I figured since this has been around for a LONG time it's not really knew to anyone. I'll drop it though |
| 01:53.07 | spldart | Dont' you hate it when your lined up for a kill on the rabbit and another hunter facing away from rabbit decides to jump away from rabbit without even being shot at by the rabbit to a land on a point in space time your are already occupying? |
| 01:58.17 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * 10bzflag/ (include/bzfsAPI.h src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx): Add bzID to player record for plugins |
| 02:00.37 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright_ (n=chatzill@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 02:01.14 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright__ (n=chatzill@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 02:17.14 | *** join/#bzflag Snowbro (i=wobble@d51A4F77E.access.telenet.be) |
| 02:20.46 | *** join/#bzflag rue_house (n=rue@h24-207-91-121.cst.dccnet.com) |
| 02:21.07 | rue_house | I'm having problems getting bzflag to run, it likes to crash my machine...!?!? |
| 02:21.32 | spldart | machine?\ |
| 02:21.35 | spldart | OS |
| 02:21.37 | spldart | ? |
| 02:21.39 | rue_house | ah |
| 02:21.41 | rue_house | well, |
| 02:21.56 | rue_house | athalon 1.2Ghz, running debain |
| 02:22.00 | spldart | Ah |
| 02:22.07 | rue_house | geforce 4 card |
| 02:22.13 | spldart | Do you see anything at all before the crash? |
| 02:22.30 | rue_house | :) I dont remember... |
| 02:22.37 | rue_house | I might have to be right back :) |
| 02:22.38 | spldart | And are you running the bzflag available throught aptitude or did you build your own with latest code? |
| 02:22.46 | rue_house | apt |
| 02:22.54 | spldart | lemme check ver |
| 02:22.55 | rue_house | shall I build? |
| 02:23.19 | rue_house | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:24.03 | rue_house | I'm really interested to see what changed in bzflag over the past 5 years |
| 02:24.42 | rue_house | a purple cow? |
| 02:24.51 | rue_house | huh |
| 02:24.58 | rue_house | just when you think you seen everything |
| 02:25.15 | spldart | 2.0.2 march 18 is in apt stable right now |
| 02:25.32 | rue_house | ok, gonna go crash, tell ya what I see |
| 02:25.50 | spldart | 5 years.. what ver would that be |
| 02:25.55 | rue_house | hehe |
| 02:26.14 | rue_house | filesystems synced... |
| 02:26.16 | spldart | Are you running nvidia drivers and are they operating properly on any other 3d games? |
| 02:27.01 | rue_house | hmm, no 3d isn't working quite right for me latley |
| 02:27.09 | spldart | problem then |
| 02:27.23 | rue_house | nvidiafb 47256 0 |
| 02:27.26 | spldart | I didn't have 3d working right on my test machine today and it would lock bzflag bad too |
| 02:27.28 | rue_house | no software anymore? |
| 02:27.58 | rue_house | the nvidia drivers leak memory like crazy |
| 02:28.12 | rue_house | that was a few mo ago though, maybe they have a new ver |
| 02:28.56 | spldart | If memory serves the nvidia driver for linux worked great for my rig a few months ago hehe |
| 02:29.22 | spldart | Well.. |
| 02:29.23 | rue_house | yea, but it leaks ... dma? space |
| 02:29.31 | spldart | no |
| 02:29.32 | spldart | hehe |
| 02:29.35 | spldart | anywho |
| 02:30.18 | rue_house | in /proc/slabinfo, it was one of the biovec's |
| 02:30.30 | Tropican8 | what's the limit of flags you can have on a map? |
| 02:32.08 | blast007 | Tropican8: well, when the client refuses to join, right around there |
| 02:32.22 | spldart | If your having 3d accel problems then I would look into that.... glxinfo | grep "direct" |
| 02:32.45 | blast007 | Tropican8: with 100 on my server, when I do a /flag reset, I get a ServerRead::loop warning ;) |
| 02:33.03 | Tropican8 | blast007: no wonder, I had 950 something :-) |
| 02:33.12 | spldart | That's alot of flags |
| 02:33.21 | rue_house | haha, the driver version is about 4000 higher than when I had it |
| 02:35.42 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * 10bzflag/plugins/logDetail/logDetail.cpp: |
| 02:35.42 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: Add SERVER-STATUS messages - assumes plugin is loaded on startup and |
| 02:35.42 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: unloaded on server shutdown |
| 02:35.42 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: Add bzID to PLAYER-PART and PLAYER-JOIN messages |
| 02:35.42 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: Add Current player list when join, part, and auth events |
| 02:38.02 | spldart | very very intersting... pause resume pause resume pause resume..... |
| 02:38.16 | spldart | I didn't realize that |
| 02:57.37 | *** join/#bzflag orchid (n=bzgirl@unaffiliated/orchid) |
| 02:57.37 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v orchid] by ChanServ |
| 03:04.32 | *** join/#bzflag rue_house (n=rue@h24-207-91-121.cst.dccnet.com) |
| 03:04.38 | rue_house | ohohoh |
| 03:04.42 | rue_house | point me at a server! |
| 03:04.59 | rue_house | cmon, someone hook me up! |
| 03:05.06 | SportChick | hi orchid |
| 03:05.23 | orchid | hi SC :-) |
| 03:05.36 | rue_house | oh cmon, I wanna play |
| 03:05.39 | rue_house | whos up? |
| 03:05.50 | blast007 | rue_house: bzexcess.com:5154 ;) |
| 03:05.50 | SportChick | rue_house: just join one on the server list |
| 03:05.53 | rue_house | cmon, I havn't played in 5 years, I'll make good fodder |
| 03:05.54 | blast007 | probably empty though :P |
| 03:09.03 | [NP]Tangent | blast, I know three that I can pretty much guarantee are empty |
| 03:09.19 | [NP]Tangent | all 3 nullbz servers :-\ |
| 03:09.27 | blast007 | [NP]Tangent: yeah, my server sorta goes in and out of activity |
| 03:09.38 | blast007 | had 17 players earlier |
| 03:09.54 | [NP]Tangent | yeah, we've had up to 25 on my server |
| 03:09.55 | *** join/#bzflag Quol (n=Quol@modemcable177.75-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 03:10.06 | blast007 | I need to bump up the player limit |
| 03:10.09 | blast007 | it's at 20 right now |
| 03:11.10 | spldart | glad you got her fixed up rue |
| 03:16.27 | rue_house | will it work with OSS sound? |
| 03:37.59 | *** join/#bzflag orchid_ (n=bzgirl@unaffiliated/orchid) |
| 03:37.59 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v orchid_] by ChanServ |
| 03:40.11 | rue_house | maybe now I can get 3d screensavers againtoo! |
| 03:42.21 | rue_house | haha, I suck |
| 03:46.05 | spldart | don't think I've tried... |
| 03:46.17 | spldart | what was messed up? nvidia module? |
| 03:47.56 | rue_house | yea, the last version I tried was 4800 or so, there up to 9600 |
| 03:48.08 | rue_house | but I think I see my meory going away :) |
| 03:48.33 | orchid_ | quol! |
| 03:48.46 | Quol | Hey - about time I run into you again :) |
| 03:48.49 | orchid_ | ltnc |
| 03:49.07 | Quol | ya - it has been a while :) how are ya? still in TO? |
| 03:49.16 | orchid_ | yep |
| 03:49.58 | orchid_ | Quebec next week for skiing |
| 03:50.25 | Quol | ooh - where in quebec? |
| 03:50.35 | orchid_ | snowboarding if I get the courage up |
| 03:51.16 | orchid_ | tremblant I think |
| 03:55.28 | Quol | tremblant...that's a nice hill....now that we finally have some snow it should be pretty good |
| 03:55.38 | *** part/#bzflag Tropican8 (i=user@c-69-137-19-228.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 03:56.42 | orchid_ | it's a last minute thing, but most of the good hills here have closed because of the mild weather |
| 03:56.58 | orchid_ | so, Quebec it is! |
| 03:57.56 | Quol | well, I hope you have a great time.....and that it doesn't get crazy cold for you.... |
| 03:58.06 | Quol | the last couple of days have been pretty cold.. |
| 03:59.06 | orchid_ | yeah, it's been crappy here though, mild and wet |
| 03:59.50 | spldart | Last package I was using for nvidia debian NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-7182-pkg1.run |
| 03:59.51 | Quol | that's what we had until last week - we got the vancouver weather.... |
| 03:59.54 | *** part/#bzflag rue_house (n=rue@h24-207-91-121.cst.dccnet.com) |
| 04:00.03 | spldart | Looks like I need to get a knew one |
| 04:00.07 | spldart | oops new |
| 04:00.13 | spldart | Got that in just before he left |
| 04:11.42 | *** part/#bzflag S1gn (n=corwin@bzq-82-81-32-219.red.bezeqint.net) |
| 04:16.57 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97 (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 05:18.33 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=short_ci@cpe-24-28-107-184.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 06:10.17 | [NP]Tangent | hm |
| 06:10.38 | [NP]Tangent | I might make a random little video to accompany that one BZFrag track I made not too long ago |
| 07:45.39 | *** part/#bzflag delusional (n=A-Delusi@pool-141-158-104-202.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 08:24.52 | *** join/#bzflag ts (n=ts@p54B02D0E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:27.00 | ts | ¡Buenos días Manu! |
| 08:34.27 | ts | ~seen amcnabb |
| 08:34.44 | ibot | amcnabb <n=amcnabb@c-71-195-212-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 52d 13h 56m 8s ago, saying: 'I hate to run in and out, but I've got to go get some other stuff done. I'll be back on later today.'. |
| 10:06.40 | *** join/#bzflag bz05 (n=d4e36098@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 10:07.16 | *** join/#bzflag priori (n=d4e36098@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 10:54.04 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03t-s * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/LocalPlayer.cxx: Reset stuckStartTime correct in order to have several unstick attemps. This fixes the "no more unstuck" bug. |
| 10:55.12 | ts | brlcad: The unstuck bug should be now fixed, however I wonder why are you initialising the variable with something other than TimeKeeper::getNullTime() at the beginning of LocalPlayer.cxx |
| 11:54.38 | *** join/#bzflag bz52 (n=545e3df9@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 11:55.54 | bz52 | Hello, can anyone help with bzFlag compile/ install / run on KUbuntu win GeForceFX 5200 ... grafix problems? |
| 12:08.27 | spldart | bad time of day for that help |
| 12:34.07 | *** join/#bzflag _president_ (n=sasa_sta@80.93.225.60) |
| 12:52.31 | *** join/#bzflag donny_baker (n=donny_ba@mse1.bowencenter.org) |
| 12:59.41 | *** join/#bzflag Tread (n=507e2ce5@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 12:59.56 | Tread | hi guys, i got a simple question |
| 13:00.04 | Tread | anyody home? |
| 13:01.12 | Tread | my sound card keeps cutting out when i am in bz, that is that all other pps wont play sound thru |
| 13:04.26 | *** join/#bzflag RatOmeter (n=chatzill@139.78.95.188) |
| 13:04.36 | Tread | it was never like that b4 so im wondering if it is new |
| 13:07.43 | RatOmeter | if what was new? |
| 13:13.32 | Tread | sry rat i was asking about y my soundcard keeps cutting out when in bz |
| 13:16.06 | RatOmeter | Ah. I'd like to know why bz likes to lock up on me at random ;) |
| 13:16.43 | Tread | hehe hmmmm maybe i can help |
| 13:16.54 | *** join/#bzflag donny_baker (n=donny_ba@mse1.bowencenter.org) |
| 13:16.59 | Tread | describe it and ur system |
| 13:17.03 | Manu | hallo ts, sry I was out |
| 13:18.21 | Tread | hey manu any ideas y my external sounds cut out when in bz? |
| 13:20.12 | Manu | linux or windows? |
| 13:20.25 | Tread | windows |
| 13:20.43 | Tread | it never used to in older versions but.. |
| 13:21.21 | Manu | it's weird |
| 13:21.44 | Manu | but I'm not a windows guy |
| 13:22.10 | Tread | np, i was thinking it myust be bz cuz no other prog does it |
| 13:22.36 | Manu | be sure the sound (PCM) is not muted and the same in the bzflag sound options |
| 13:22.58 | Tread | its such a drag if i want to liten to music or talk on skype while playing |
| 13:23.10 | Manu | yes, but bzflag also can control the volume |
| 13:23.23 | Manu | it's in the options menu |
| 13:23.23 | Tread | of external sounds? |
| 13:24.28 | Manu | check in Menu-Opcions-audio settings, volume |
| 13:28.40 | Tread | yeah manu it changes nada |
| 13:29.02 | Manu | then wait for a windows guy |
| 13:29.23 | Tread | k |
| 13:29.30 | Tread | thanx anyhoo |
| 13:30.29 | Manu | it's weird, I never had problems whan I installed it in windows |
| 13:31.23 | Tread | ya i always luck out w weird probs |
| 13:33.49 | RatOmeter | I'm a Windows guy. Let me see if I understand your problem correctly: So you're listening to something via your computer/soundcard, say the latest smash hit by Britney Spears, and you fire up BZFlag... |
| 13:34.03 | RatOmeter | you can hear all the bzflag sounds, but no britney? |
| 13:34.05 | Tread | lol |
| 13:34.28 | Tread | yep and i gotta get my britney or i ll just die ooooh gush |
| 13:34.42 | RatOmeter | hehe. I can see why it bothers you ;) |
| 13:35.18 | RatOmeter | just tested a similar scenerio with no problems (listening to an MP3 file while running bz) |
| 13:35.27 | donny_baker | i have my bzflag sounds turned off on windows at times, never seems to affect external sounds though |
| 13:36.46 | Tread | ya im usually lucky this way probs no one else has gaaaah |
| 13:37.28 | donny_baker | what kind of sound card... maybe a setting to only allow sounds from application with focus (yeah that would be wired i know) |
| 13:37.40 | RatOmeter | have you checked that you have the latest audio driver(s)? |
| 13:38.04 | Tread | yeah but it only happens in bz nothing else |
| 13:38.27 | RatOmeter | how 'bout some system specs, brand/model mobo and sound card/chipset |
| 13:38.31 | Tread | and it never used to have a prob in older bz versons |
| 13:39.19 | RatOmeter | can you try a previous version of bz now? |
| 13:39.31 | Tread | hmmm good idea |
| 13:40.18 | Tread | gimme a sec to try |
| 13:44.15 | Tread | same prob in older version of bz now??!! |
| 13:45.16 | donny_baker | what vesion of windows... looks like vista allows per-app sound settings |
| 13:45.36 | Tread | ya my bz machine is win2k |
| 13:57.41 | RatOmeter | we probably still need to know what kinda hardware you've got. onboard sound? add-in sound card? what brand/model? What sound driver version? |
| 13:58.06 | Tread | its a soundblaster |
| 13:58.29 | RatOmeter | as in ancient soundblaster? what model? |
| 13:58.45 | Tread | its been so long i dont even remember where in devices to look for which card i have |
| 13:58.54 | Tread | ya ancient |
| 13:59.21 | RatOmeter | (I think this works in w2k) Hold down the "windows" key and press the Pause/Break key. |
| 13:59.35 | RatOmeter | then click the "Hardware" tab |
| 13:59.53 | RatOmeter | then "device manager" button |
| 14:00.13 | donny_baker | oops :p |
| 14:00.16 | RatOmeter | oops |
| 14:02.56 | *** join/#bzflag Tread (n=507e2ce5@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 14:03.11 | Tread | gah i hate windows |
| 14:03.14 | donny_baker | welcome back "D |
| 14:03.29 | Tread | next puter is linux |
| 14:04.22 | Tread | well i have many option in sound like creative sb live, game port, legacy audio etc |
| 14:08.15 | RatOmeter | ok, in device manager, right-click on "creative sb live" and check properties, driver version |
| 14:08.43 | RatOmeter | hehe, Creative Labs N. Am. tech support office is here in Stillwater, OK... not that that helps either of us |
| 14:09.25 | donny_baker | you could alwats send the card to Rat and he could throw it through their window for you |
| 14:09.57 | RatOmeter | heh |
| 14:10.12 | Tread | good the driver date is 1.1.1601 |
| 14:10.18 | RatOmeter | I could take pictures of that and send them to you ;) |
| 14:10.33 | Tread | version 5.0.2184.1 |
| 14:10.47 | Tread | im getting the latest from creative |
| 14:11.57 | RatOmeter | that's a good starting point |
| 14:12.27 | Tread | im repairing everything and then lets ee |
| 14:12.50 | Tread | but oing this is windows is always a crap shoot |
| 14:17.16 | donny_baker | well you know the old windows slogan.. "It's easier to rebuild it than fix it". Or at least that is our motto here at work :) |
| 14:17.57 | Tread | u work at M$? |
| 14:18.26 | donny_baker | no... IT director for a hospital, we use lots of M$ |
| 14:18.48 | Tread | ah cool u may use my friends software |
| 14:19.22 | Tread | perfectworldarchitecture ever heard of it? |
| 14:19.42 | donny_baker | nope, can't say that I have |
| 14:20.24 | donny_baker | checking it out now |
| 14:20.45 | blast007 | Tread: I have issues with my new system took where sounds don't play quite right |
| 14:20.52 | Tread | now the really scary part the reboot |
| 14:21.11 | blast007 | sometimes a sound doesn't play at all, sometimes it plays part of a sound, and sometimes it plays the whole sound |
| 14:21.13 | Tread | ah balst did u solve them? |
| 14:21.18 | blast007 | I haven't |
| 14:21.30 | blast007 | is that what yours is doing though? |
| 14:21.40 | blast007 | or does your sound just quit and not come back? |
| 14:22.28 | RatOmeter | his prob is "external" (not bzflag related) sounds not playing (being suppressed/overridden by bz?) |
| 14:22.35 | blast007 | (I don't have a soundblaster card in my system, but an onboard audio chipset) |
| 14:22.58 | Tread | i play amp3 in vlc and when i start bz it cuts off |
| 14:23.12 | Tread | i come out of bz and its playing happily |
| 14:23.13 | blast007 | ah |
| 14:25.17 | RatOmeter | I verified here that bzflag is not doing that on my system... was listening to an air traffic controller feed from LiveATC.net while playing bzflag. worked fine |
| 14:25.18 | Tread | phone |
| 14:25.30 | blast007 | it's possible that the soundcard doesn't support multiple programs to access it at once |
| 14:25.57 | blast007 | but I'd think that an SB Live! would have that ability |
| 14:26.13 | RatOmeter | shouldn't be a problem. It's a soundblaster Live. I don't have one of those to test with, but should be no problem if the drivers are all cool |
| 14:26.33 | blast007 | yeah |
| 14:26.48 | blast007 | even my 8 year old sound card supports that ;) |
| 14:27.03 | Tread | ya mine does too |
| 14:27.15 | blast007 | and I bet the Sound Blaster PCI128 I have in the drawer does too |
| 14:27.22 | RatOmeter | I think I have a sounblaster [something] at home somewhere. Might be able to try it tonight or tomorrow |
| 14:27.40 | Tread | it worked on older bz versions |
| 14:27.57 | RatOmeter | aye, but didn't you just try it a bit ago with an older version? |
| 14:28.58 | RatOmeter | it's probably a Windows confugalty. Might have to resort to the old "uninstall and re-install" bit on the sound hardware |
| 14:29.03 | Tread | ya |
| 14:31.29 | Tread | ok am shutting down, i hate this bit |
| 14:32.53 | Tread | im working w a friend to implement a new system clled croquet |
| 14:33.03 | Tread | ever hrd of it |
| 14:33.20 | Tread | it promises to be the new web |
| 14:52.10 | *** join/#bzflag A-Delusion (n=A-Delusi@pool-141-158-104-202.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 14:54.02 | Tread | blast u still there? |
| 14:54.26 | Tread | ok driver reinstalled and working nothing changed |
| 14:55.08 | Tread | still get no sound in bz but im starting to think its not a bz thing cuz even in the sound amanger the sound cuts out now??? |
| 14:57.19 | donny_baker | overheated/bad sound card... mine used to overheat and sound would cut in and out |
| 14:57.50 | donny_baker | added a "Fan" pci card and the problem when away |
| 14:58.11 | donny_baker | could try moving it to another slot |
| 14:58.49 | donny_baker | of course that was way back on Win95... but it was a soundblaster card |
| 15:05.15 | Tread | ok here is now the totally weird part |
| 15:06.12 | Tread | i start the music, i go into bz no sound, i wait for the music to repeat and it plays in bz??? |
| 15:07.00 | Tread | i mean wtf??? |
| 15:10.56 | RatOmeter | yep, that's weird all right. good luck. |
| 15:11.47 | Tread | thanx |
| 15:12.30 | RatOmeter | does sound like it could be a hardware problem, as DB alluded to, but it could be just about anything. Have you checked the level of sunspots today? ;) |
| 15:12.36 | Tread | btw for those who like lots of bullets and splatter killing the Emerald Mosque is back up |
| 15:13.17 | Tread | hehe rat i know i end up screaming at tech guys over stuff like this |
| 15:15.23 | RatOmeter | I don't like the emerald mosque... I get fragged to much! |
| 15:16.21 | Tread | lol |
| 15:16.37 | Tread | k im just sayin :) |
| 15:16.57 | Tread | i kinda like the pure chaos |
| 15:17.48 | Tread | so what could it be about restarting a song that would allow it all of a sudden to play in bz??? |
| 15:18.14 | Tread | its so very strange |
| 15:19.11 | Tread | and afterwards if i go in or out of bz it still plays but if i pause i have to wait till the next repeat |
| 15:19.35 | Tread | i mean pause the music andrestart it |
| 15:20.06 | Tread | brb |
| 15:20.07 | donny_baker | I had a -20 on emerald last night before I gave up |
| 15:22.28 | Tread | lol |
| 15:23.24 | [NP]Tangent | heh, I might play emerald some time |
| 15:28.05 | Tread | i thought i should include a blood pressure warning :) |
| 15:28.30 | Tread | ive already had 2 interesting cheaters |
| 15:28.37 | Tread | one who had a flying laser |
| 15:28.50 | Tread | boy i want one of those |
| 15:34.04 | RatOmeter | I clawed my way up to +4 just a few minutes ago. Left at +1 |
| 15:35.21 | RatOmeter | I saw a cheater at "the 2 castles" a while back who had at least WG and OO (without actually having the flags) |
| 15:35.50 | RatOmeter | gave him a shortban and mentioned his IP address here in case admins wanted to do anything about him |
| 15:37.09 | Tread | im more interested in expanding bz than giving bans |
| 15:37.22 | Tread | i tend only to ban real aholes |
| 15:37.50 | Tread | i tend to talk to cheaters and see if they can do somethng for bz |
| 15:38.01 | Tread | try to include them |
| 15:38.34 | RatOmeter | that's an interesting angle |
| 15:38.38 | Tread | especially those who have written the client themselves |
| 15:39.02 | Tread | bring em over to the ligt side of the force |
| 15:47.43 | *** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=jbdigriz@206-15-67-5.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 15:47.44 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ |
| 16:05.31 | Tread | test |
| 16:06.39 | RatOmeter | test failed |
| 16:07.55 | *** join/#bzflag zee205 (i=3e4de48a@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-a29564e0f5ea38c1) |
| 16:11.59 | *** join/#bzflag Birdie (n=Birdie__@d54C12333.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:12.37 | [NP]Tangent | oh teh noes |
| 16:13.11 | blast007 | Tread: have you tried a different player? |
| 16:13.42 | blast007 | like Winamp? (and then trying different output plugins like the Wave Out or the DirectSound?) |
| 16:16.28 | Tread | ah i tried mpc and vlc but not winamp |
| 16:16.47 | Tread | but i cant use skype either |
| 16:17.07 | blast007 | hmm |
| 16:17.19 | Tread | ya it is very weird |
| 16:17.33 | blast007 | I'd say your sound card just sucks then :P |
| 16:17.52 | Tread | ultimatrely i would like to listen to music but skype is alos important cuz otherwise i cant hear calls or tak and play |
| 16:18.04 | Tread | but it didnt used to |
| 16:18.31 | blast007 | does running other games kill the audio? |
| 16:18.38 | Tread | the quality is good and bz used to have no probs w it |
| 16:18.59 | Tread | hehe i dont know i dont play any other games |
| 16:19.06 | blast007 | well try one |
| 16:19.22 | Tread | but tell me this |
| 16:19.35 | Tread | why would playing an mp3 change the bz settings |
| 16:19.54 | blast007 | what bz settings? |
| 16:20.05 | Tread | i mean if i have an mp3 tht then runs under bz and i change the bz settings the dont sty |
| 16:20.17 | Tread | the bz settings revert |
| 16:20.26 | Tread | to no sound?? |
| 16:20.36 | blast007 | ? |
| 16:20.44 | Tread | why should bz care if i am aos playing music? |
| 16:20.45 | blast007 | all the settings revert? |
| 16:20.54 | blast007 | it doesn't care |
| 16:20.55 | Tread | all the sound settings yes |
| 16:21.33 | blast007 | give me an example |
| 16:21.38 | blast007 | I don't use the sound menu |
| 16:21.40 | Tread | bz ses the music player and chooses not to keep my sound settings |
| 16:21.52 | Tread | bz sees |
| 16:22.12 | blast007 | what sound settings are there? |
| 16:22.18 | blast007 | isn't it rather limited on Windows? |
| 16:22.32 | Tread | no i mean the bz sound settings |
| 16:22.35 | blast007 | volume, remote sounds, few others |
| 16:22.38 | blast007 | right |
| 16:22.42 | Tread | here is the scenario |
| 16:23.43 | Tread | i start a player, i set it to repeat, i go into bz hear no player, it reapeats i hear the mp3 but then no bz, i change the options in bz and still hear nothing and |
| 16:23.56 | Tread | when i look at setings in bz they have changed back??? |
| 16:24.04 | blast007 | what freaking settings? |
| 16:24.19 | blast007 | give me specific details |
| 16:24.20 | Tread | the audio settings in bz under options |
| 16:24.24 | blast007 | which ones |
| 16:24.42 | blast007 | what were they, what did you change them to, etc |
| 16:24.50 | Tread | er options>audio settings>sound volume, remote sounds |
| 16:25.15 | Tread | i tried al combinations but none of them hold when the mp3 plays |
| 16:25.38 | blast007 | so they change back while you are in the game yet? |
| 16:26.00 | Tread | yes |
| 16:26.02 | blast007 | I don't see how that's possible |
| 16:26.09 | Tread | yeah exactly |
| 16:26.26 | blast007 | so either you're full of crap, or your computer is totally screwed up |
| 16:26.47 | Tread | thanx for the vote of confidence and believing me |
| 16:30.13 | blast007 | have you tried reinstaling Windows? :P |
| 16:31.20 | donny_baker | ah were back to that... 04[09:17] donny_baker: 01well you know the old windows slogan.. "It's easier to rebuild it than fix it". Or at least that is our motto here at work :) |
| 16:32.26 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@cpc4-stme1-0-0-cust103.cdif.cable.ntl.com) |
| 16:33.17 | Tread | its better to give up than try to understand is what u mean |
| 16:34.23 | blast007 | Tread: nah, I'm just saying it not worth your effort to try and fix it if reinstalling will give you a performance/stability boost and possibly fix the problem |
| 16:34.33 | blast007 | and if it doesn't fix the problem, you know it's a more serious issue |
| 16:34.52 | blast007 | throw a different hard drive into the system, install Windows onto that |
| 16:35.02 | blast007 | if that one works, you know that a reinstall will fix it |
| 16:35.14 | Tread | in the 6 yr+ I have the win2k mach i have never reinstalled, not onec |
| 16:35.30 | blast007 | 6 years? wow |
| 16:35.33 | blast007 | no wonder |
| 16:35.51 | Tread | yep i am more determined thn most people |
| 16:36.09 | Tread | i like to understand, i tend not to give up |
| 16:36.34 | Tread | in the end i always understand and that is better |
| 16:36.49 | blast007 | yeah, it's too bad you can't always discuss things we that we can understand what you mean without having to prod you with specific questions |
| 16:37.22 | CBG | prod? probe? |
| 16:37.28 | blast007 | cattle prod |
| 16:37.33 | blast007 | zaaaappppp! |
| 16:37.55 | Tread | u dont ave to prod |
| 16:38.11 | Tread | u just have to have an imagination :P |
| 16:38.17 | blast007 | I sure did have to prod |
| 16:38.26 | blast007 | just to get what specific audio settings you were talking about |
| 16:38.35 | Tread | no u simply didnt think far enuf outside the box |
| 16:38.47 | blast007 | riiight |
| 16:38.50 | Tread | u acted like there werent any audio settings in bz |
| 16:38.59 | blast007 | and I'm done |
| 16:39.28 | Tread | the fact that they are not very complex and u couldnt imagine that i had tried ll combos shows that u didnt have the imagination |
| 16:40.11 | Tread | u were done when u said i was ful of crap |
| 16:40.14 | blast007 | Tread: maybe you have too much, and are just imagining this whole thing? |
| 16:40.30 | Tread | maye im imagining u |
| 16:41.01 | blast007 | haha, maybe |
| 16:41.09 | blast007 | maybe you're not even on IRC right now ;) |
| 16:41.41 | Tread | the give up and reinstall is what i hear everywhere, it is the last bastion of those that cant think a problem thru |
| 16:42.09 | CBG | Wtf is IRC? |
| 16:42.16 | CBG | Dude, you so totally imagined that. |
| 16:42.26 | Tread | lol |
| 16:42.33 | donny_baker | no, it is the product of time vs money and my time is worth $150/hr.... cheaper to reinstall |
| 16:42.58 | brlcad | imaginary render cow |
| 16:43.02 | Tread | yep funny how money takes precendence over knowledge |
| 16:43.13 | blast007 | "yes, let's spend 3 weeks debugging a problem, hmm, or 2 hours reinstalling windows" |
| 16:43.18 | donny_baker | hey this is a capitalist world... money drives all |
| 16:43.31 | Tread | its one of he weknesses of our society |
| 16:43.39 | blast007 | Tread: worst case, as I said, try installing on another hard drive |
| 16:43.40 | donny_baker | in your opinion |
| 16:43.45 | blast007 | if that works, you know that it CAN work |
| 16:43.57 | SportChick | hiya brlcad |
| 16:43.58 | Tread | or lets create systems in the first place that are debugable, no lets go for as much cash as fast as possible |
| 16:44.19 | brlcad | howdy SportChicky |
| 16:44.25 | SportChick | how goes it? |
| 16:44.35 | blast007 | Tread: we can't help you any further |
| 16:44.35 | brlcad | peachy |
| 16:44.42 | brlcad | took today off |
| 16:45.16 | Tread | its funny how often i get that frm this channel |
| 16:45.22 | CBG | moneyz = happyness |
| 16:45.37 | blast007 | Tread: maybe you just have weird problems? |
| 16:45.46 | Tread | every time i come here with a question or new idea u guys just crap al over it or whine |
| 16:45.49 | CBG | Tread: you want me to come visit you and fix the problem at your house? |
| 16:46.06 | Tread | i do have weird problems but that is what makes them interesting too |
| 16:46.07 | brlcad | ~fling at Tread |
| 16:46.09 | ibot | ACTION flings a boogie at Tread |
| 16:46.09 | CBG | Where do you live? If it's outside the UK you might have to pay for a plane ticket... |
| 16:46.13 | blast007 | hehe |
| 16:46.14 | Tread | nno cbg |
| 16:46.28 | ts | brlcad: Did you see my message? |
| 16:46.30 | SportChick | brlcad: oh, nice |
| 16:46.41 | brlcad | ts: which one was that? |
| 16:46.47 | brlcad | SportChick: it is! :) |
| 16:46.48 | Tread | i have come here a bunch of times suggesting new ideas nd u guys are just not receptive |
| 16:46.55 | ts | [11:55] ts brlcad: The unstuck bug should be now fixed, however I wonder why are you initialising the variable with something other than TimeKeeper::getNullTime() at the beginning of LocalPlayer.cxx |
| 16:46.56 | blast007 | Tread: I wouldn't say that makes them interesting...I'd say it makes them low priority because you're the only one with the problem |
| 16:46.57 | brlcad | though I'm still working |
| 16:47.04 | SportChick | brlcad: heh |
| 16:47.36 | Tread | blast im not only talking about this prob |
| 16:47.39 | CBG | tr |
| 16:47.49 | CBG | Tread: gimme an idea of yours :) |
| 16:48.18 | Tread | im helping to setup a foundation to address educational vurtual environs and im taking inspiration from bz |
| 16:48.25 | brlcad | ts: what line? |
| 16:48.30 | blast007 | Tread: that's nice |
| 16:49.04 | Tread | i spent an hour last night on te phone w someone who has designed a new protocol showing him certain strengths and weaknesse of bz |
| 16:49.10 | brlcad | SportChick: that would be nice, except it just snowed last night |
| 16:49.17 | blast007 | Tread: that's nice |
| 16:49.37 | Tread | stuff ive been talking about for yrs now here and u guys really couldnt give a... |
| 16:49.52 | CBG | bz has any strenghts? |
| 16:50.12 | ts | brlcad: LocalPlayer.cxx:85 |
| 16:50.15 | Tread | so i say who is interested in the future and olving new and diff probs nd all i get in sedentary complacency |
| 16:50.29 | Tread | yes cbg it does |
| 16:50.31 | blast007 | Tread: that's nice |
| 16:50.33 | ts | and this is done in doUpdateMotion(): http://bzflag.cvs.sourceforge.net/bzflag/bzflag/src/bzflag/LocalPlayer.cxx?r1=2.59&r2=2.60 |
| 16:50.39 | SportChick | brlcad: heh, don't be a wimp ;) |
| 16:51.00 | Tread | see blast that attitude is exactly what i mean |
| 16:51.50 | CBG | Tread: maybe he'll respond better if he got something in return for working on the game? |
| 16:52.01 | ts | brlcad: So first iteration it will be set to TimeKeeper:: getNullTime(). I'm wondering why you're initializing it with TimeKeeper::getSunExplodeTime() |
| 16:52.39 | blast007 | CBG: nah, I just don't like Tread |
| 16:52.45 | CBG | So many devote a lot of time, money, etc - developing, hosting, etc - for little, if anything, in return. |
| 16:52.48 | Tread | clarify cbg |
| 16:52.59 | CBG | Tread: clarify what? |
| 16:53.01 | brlcad | ts: no particular reason, the initial value is irrelevant |
| 16:53.07 | Tread | ya exactly thats why i expect less attitude |
| 16:53.25 | CBG | Tread: clarify what? |
| 16:53.38 | ts | ok, I'll make the initialization value then consistant with the loop one |
| 16:53.39 | Tread | its a bt like we are doing so much so we dont have to care |
| 16:54.07 | Tread | its seems contradictory |
| 16:54.17 | Tread | hypocritical |
| 16:54.45 | donny_baker | no, its like we already give lots of our time and energy to bz, and then some guy comes in and just gives ideas... and no work (wait... that sounds like me) |
| 16:55.01 | brlcad | Tread: I'm not sure about others, but I frankly don't really know you -- you don't hang around or interact much (at least relatively) |
| 16:55.02 | CBG | Tread: your ideas = work for them |
| 16:55.14 | CBG | And when they have no motivation to do it, it doesn't get done. |
| 16:55.18 | Tread | im trying to help make bz by bringing it to a new and more integral place |
| 16:55.22 | brlcad | so you don't get much attention or respect because you are an unknown, you have no .. karma ;) |
| 16:55.38 | CBG | Tread: in 20 words or less, outline one of your ideas ? |
| 16:55.43 | blast007 | brlcad: were you around for the "bzflag should be p2p" discussion? :) |
| 16:55.44 | CBG | ~karma Tread |
| 16:55.44 | ibot | tread has neutral karma |
| 16:55.48 | CBG | Indeed. |
| 16:56.01 | brlcad | blast007: ah yes, that's come up several times |
| 16:56.03 | blast007 | we could have streaming HD video in bzflag if we had P2P! |
| 16:56.12 | brlcad | heh |
| 16:56.19 | Tread | well just within bz, i spent tons of time w DR working out how to make much rounder maps |
| 16:56.34 | Tread | no one did this before i showed up |
| 16:56.45 | Tread | DR=DTR |
| 16:56.50 | CBG | "rounder" maps ? |
| 16:56.58 | Tread | more curves |
| 16:57.13 | Tread | enough of this 90 everywhere stuff |
| 16:57.22 | brlcad | Tread: we talked about a p2p backend (as a secondary channel -- it would not work for primary game communications) back in 2003 at our bzflag networking meeting |
| 16:57.40 | Tread | i spent months doing it, ok so u guys didnt know cuz i dont come braging so... |
| 16:57.54 | Tread | brlcad it is working |
| 16:57.58 | CBG | I like 90° angles. |
| 16:58.17 | Tread | cbg ur only one person |
| 16:58.32 | CBG | I didn't claim to be anything more. |
| 16:58.36 | Tread | the success of emerad mosques shows that there ae others who think differently |
| 16:58.37 | brlcad | "it is working", what's working exactly? |
| 16:59.09 | CBG | Nobody "brags", but the main devs hang out in here. People can see what they do. |
| 16:59.47 | Tread | i sai i am working now w someone who has developed a new protocol that would low bz to be made in a p2p environ w greter scalability, security and performance but u dont want to hear |
| 17:00.11 | donny_baker | bzflag is a tank game.. n ot my space |
| 17:00.22 | Tread | all i get back is grief so then i think tehse guys have n vision |
| 17:00.36 | Tread | see donny thats where u r wrong |
| 17:00.41 | CBG | These guys have no damn motivation to rewrite the whole damn game. |
| 17:00.44 | donny_baker | and i personally hate "MySpace" |
| 17:00.47 | Tread | bz s a concept nothing more or less |
| 17:01.21 | brlcad | Tread: good grief, cut the whining -- you're being heard, and people are trying to talk to you |
| 17:01.21 | Tread | maybe they would if they could help change the world w it |
| 17:01.23 | donny_baker | Tread: why don't you write us a demo of your concept and we'll get back with you on that |
| 17:01.23 | CBG | I quote bzflag.org: "BZFlag is a free multiplayer multiplatform 3D tank battle game.". |
| 17:01.23 | Tread | im not whining im making a oint |
| 17:01.38 | CBG | I don't expect bz to be anymore, I do not WANT it to be anymore. |
| 17:01.48 | Tread | cbg if u cant look beyond what people tell u... |
| 17:01.53 | brlcad | you're destroying people's interest in actually interacting with you |
| 17:01.54 | CBG | You're making a lot of people annoyed, is what you're doing. |
| 17:02.02 | CBG | Are you insulting me here? |
| 17:02.08 | CBG | I said I don't WANT it to be anymore. |
| 17:02.15 | Tread | this is what i mean most people cant do anything except what they re told |
| 17:02.16 | CBG | Not that I can't imagine it being any more. |
| 17:02.26 | brlcad | CBG "any more" |
| 17:02.33 | brlcad | ahh, there ya go ;) |
| 17:02.44 | donny_baker | bzflag does whatr it does pretty well... when I shoot tanks I use BZ... when I chat I use IRC, google talk, the two don't mix well |
| 17:02.47 | CBG | I have come to a "decision" that I like bz as it is, that it should not be any more than it is. |
| 17:02.50 | Tread | bz=tankgame full stop |
| 17:02.52 | donny_baker | if you talk in BZ you die |
| 17:02.53 | CBG | Tread: bollocks. This has nothing to do with what anyone is "told". |
| 17:02.59 | CBG | It's about what people WANT. |
| 17:03.02 | brlcad | Tread: so you're saying you have mod'd the game to work of some p2p protocol? |
| 17:03.09 | brlcad | you've done this or want to do this? |
| 17:03.14 | Tread | yep u quted me a defn |
| 17:03.33 | brlcad | donny_baker: not true, depends how fast you type ;) |
| 17:03.45 | Tread | im saying who is interested in working on 3d environs which can help educate the masses |
| 17:03.59 | donny_baker | hey, get Thumper in a conversation and his score plummets ;p |
| 17:04.08 | donny_baker | mine too |
| 17:04.11 | CBG | Thumper has a score? :P hehe |
| 17:04.20 | Tread | i am building connections to unis biznesse and a strong ackbone |
| 17:04.28 | brlcad | Tread: so you haven't made a change and are trying to get others interested/involved in a project? |
| 17:04.41 | CBG | biznesse? |
| 17:05.08 | Tread | havent made a change to what? u have no idea what ive changed or tried to change |
| 17:05.16 | CBG | Heh, insulting people is often the best strategy to get others interested/involved in a project.... |
| 17:05.21 | CBG | s/best/worst/ |
| 17:05.39 | Tread | u can already see ive tried to cange bz to get it to e more and the rewrd is that peopl ask me y there aent more maps like it |
| 17:05.56 | brlcad | Tread: I'm asking if you have or haven't because of course I don't know what you've done or tried |
| 17:05.58 | Tread | cbg u should knw uve been doing it the last 15 mins |
| 17:06.12 | brlcad | was that not clear? |
| 17:06.22 | Tread | nbrclad have u been to teh emerald mosque? |
| 17:06.50 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@about/essy/fan/CBG) |
| 17:07.04 | donny_baker | emerald mosque = mass chaos... it is an ok map, but hardley revolutionary |
| 17:07.04 | brlcad | i believe so, a while ago |
| 17:07.32 | Tread | db u mean its the same as all the other mas? |
| 17:07.35 | brlcad | Tread: you still haven't answered my rather direct question |
| 17:08.06 | donny_baker | yes, and not even one of the best |
| 17:08.09 | Tread | it has more shots more meshes and more diversity of space than any other map on bz, what snt revolutionary about it? |
| 17:08.19 | Tread | br im trying |
| 17:08.36 | Tread | im also trying to dodge a million bullets at the same time |
| 17:08.45 | Tread | million comment bullets |
| 17:08.45 | brlcad | it's an interesting map |
| 17:08.49 | donny_baker | that is your opinion, but there are much better maps that iuse meshes |
| 17:08.55 | CBG | Tread: I'm not the one trying to get people involved in a project and YOU have been whining like a little girl the whole time... |
| 17:08.58 | brlcad | whether a map is revolutionary or playable depends on a lot of factors |
| 17:09.02 | Tread | thank you id love to push it way further |
| 17:09.04 | CBG | ~shoot Tread |
| 17:09.05 | ibot | ACTION shoots Tread in the ear with a frozen turkey cannon! |
| 17:09.13 | CBG | Check out ANY LouMan map for use of meshes. |
| 17:09.15 | blast007 | mmmmm, turkey |
| 17:09.27 | Tread | as comical as that image is t doesnt address ur problems |
| 17:09.29 | CBG | chicken > turkey |
| 17:09.38 | Tread | yes i love ouman stuff |
| 17:09.40 | CBG | My problems? |
| 17:09.41 | blast007 | CBG: they're both good |
| 17:09.52 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QuantumB@doc-72-47-46-111.leesville.la.cebridge.net) |
| 17:09.53 | CBG | My problem is YOU, and it actually did make me feel better. |
| 17:09.56 | Tread | but i would like to have dynamic maps |
| 17:10.01 | donny_baker | ni prefer chicken |
| 17:10.30 | CBG | blast007: too true. Though yorkshire puddings are only with Beef, traditionally, so I would have to say I'd rather have a beef sunday roast than chicken/turkey. |
| 17:10.32 | Tread | and a million other things but i have to beg to get listened to |
| 17:10.42 | CBG | Tread: dynamic maps are not a new idea. |
| 17:10.46 | Tread | and harngued for having new ideas |
| 17:10.47 | brlcad | Tread: I really am interested, but am having trouble getting a response -- have you actually made a modification to bzflag that integrates p2p, or researched this to some significant degree, or are you trying to get people to work on p2p integration? |
| 17:10.57 | CBG | it's not very likely to happen though, because of lag issues. |
| 17:11.15 | Tread | im not doing it to bz im trying to bring bz to it |
| 17:11.27 | brlcad | so the latter |
| 17:11.34 | Tread | bcuz u guys just dont seem open to the idea t al |
| 17:11.51 | CBG | What are the benefits to BZ ? |
| 17:11.56 | brlcad | Tread: again, we're open to the idea -- but it depends on where and how and by whom |
| 17:12.04 | Tread | u see guys like cbg would rather be flippant than actually discuss things |
| 17:12.08 | brlcad | it's been discussed to various ends several times, going back many years |
| 17:12.15 | CBG | WTF?! ARE YOU RETARDED?! |
| 17:12.20 | blast007 | CBG: ... |
| 17:12.21 | CBG | I am showing interest. |
| 17:12.24 | *** kick/#bzflag [CBG!n=sean@pdpc/supporter/silver/brlcad] by brlcad (uncalled for) |
| 17:12.24 | Tread | see |
| 17:12.27 | *** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@about/essy/fan/CBG) |
| 17:12.47 | Tread | look here is what i am proposing |
| 17:12.50 | CBG | You bitch even when I show some damn interest. |
| 17:12.58 | Tread | lol |
| 17:13.14 | Tread | i see bz as beautiful interface in the first place |
| 17:13.19 | brlcad | CBG: second warning, you should know better on both counts |
| 17:13.31 | Tread | it has the beauty of simplicity and elegance |
| 17:13.49 | Tread | maybe u guys dont see that but i do |
| 17:13.52 | CBG | Tread: what are the benefits, of what you are proposing, to bzflag? |
| 17:14.07 | Tread | u can do many more things w it than just playing a game |
| 17:14.09 | *** join/#bzflag Erroneous (n=dtremena@67-131-219-2.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 17:14.25 | brlcad | Tread: CBG, myself, and any other individual aren't representative of "the whole" -- but the response is more to your tone and simple difficulty in talking to you about the point |
| 17:14.38 | Tread | the benefits are not so much to bz but the users of new apps |
| 17:14.39 | brlcad | you have to be able to accept the different point of view, and outright disagreements |
| 17:15.05 | CBG | So, there are no benefits to bz? Then why do it? I don't understand. |
| 17:15.07 | Tread | i do |
| 17:15.11 | CBG | Please help me understand, Mr tread. |
| 17:15.16 | brlcad | frankly, p2p would be distructive to the on-going gameplay due to networking performance complications .. you can't propagate updates fast enough |
| 17:15.17 | Tread | lol |
| 17:15.23 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Erroneous] by ChanServ |
| 17:15.32 | Tread | that isnt true u can br |
| 17:15.44 | Tread | just not w the present client server arch |
| 17:16.08 | brlcad | there's some fundamental issues there, I'd love to read a research paper that shows otherwise |
| 17:16.17 | Tread | there ae methods being developed that allow for muc more and faster data transfer using p2p |
| 17:16.18 | QuantumBeep | Whoops, no, you can't even play BZ with Limewire running. |
| 17:16.33 | brlcad | or even see a real-time game that does this with scalable minimal lag |
| 17:16.45 | SportChick | hi Erroneous |
| 17:16.47 | Tread | br this is exactly the point |
| 17:17.10 | Tread | look at something like SL |
| 17:17.25 | Tread | it doent scale at ll past a certain point |
| 17:17.37 | brlcad | SL? |
| 17:17.38 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03t-s * 10bzflag/src/bzflag/LocalPlayer.cxx: Set the initial value of stuckStartTime to the same value as it will be set in doUpdateMotion() in case the tank is not stuck |
| 17:17.40 | Tread | but i am teling u that it already exists |
| 17:17.51 | brlcad | so show me a reference? |
| 17:17.55 | Tread | second life |
| 17:18.07 | brlcad | second life has minimal latency concerns |
| 17:18.30 | Tread | 2.5 million peopl registered but max 20000 can lay and they need megaservers and it is weak |
| 17:18.32 | CBG | Second life BLOWS. |
| 17:18.51 | CBG | It's totally unplayable without super fast internet and a top spec computer. |
| 17:18.57 | donny_baker | all of our servers are donated, as is the bandwidth |
| 17:18.58 | Tread | excactly cbg |
| 17:19.08 | brlcad | Tread: their networking requirements are *drasticly* different than that of a real-time action-based game |
| 17:19.11 | Tread | this is why u need a new architecture |
| 17:19.16 | brlcad | ~spell drasticly |
| 17:19.23 | CBG | We? SL might, we don't. |
| 17:19.23 | brlcad | figured |
| 17:19.41 | Tread | sigh cbg |
| 17:19.44 | CBG | BZ is infinitely more playable than SL will ever be. |
| 17:20.04 | Tread | u miss the biger picture it isnt a pissing contest |
| 17:20.20 | donny_baker | i have a server sitting on a single T1, so your saying i'm out in this new architechture you are proposing |
| 17:20.21 | Tread | it is being open to new ideas |
| 17:20.25 | brlcad | speed of the computer wouldn't be a concern.. there's a fundamental latency to get a packet from point A to point B to point C .. P2P would potentially help the server scale to thousands or tens of thousands of users |
| 17:20.29 | CBG | You can play on dialup. You need 1000* better internet speeds to play SL. |
| 17:20.47 | brlcad | but it does so by increasing the constant network transaction cost |
| 17:20.54 | Tread | one time i came to discuss croquet, hwo knows it? |
| 17:21.03 | brlcad | i.e. increases the minimal latency possible |
| 17:21.09 | Tread | smalltalk/squeak? |
| 17:21.09 | CBG | Croquet rocks... |
| 17:21.21 | Tread | finlly some sense from u |
| 17:21.23 | brlcad | increasing the minimal latency is the very last thing you want in a real-time action-based network game |
| 17:21.30 | CBG | Suddenly I wanna go find some hoop shaped things, a ball and a mallet. |
| 17:21.37 | Tread | gah |
| 17:21.38 | brad | bz_removeEvent(bz_eShotFiredEvent, &ps); |
| 17:21.41 | Erroneous | hi SportChick |
| 17:21.43 | brad | oops |
| 17:21.47 | Tread | the return to banality |
| 17:21.54 | CBG | hoops, brad, hoops. |
| 17:21.59 | blast007 | CBG: knew that was coming ;) |
| 17:22.06 | CBG | metal hoops, a ball and a mallet. |
| 17:22.13 | Tread | br plz go and check out opencroquet |
| 17:22.18 | CBG | Cheaper than BZ. |
| 17:22.22 | SportChick | Erroneous: you can't today right? It's next Monday? oops...grrrr, I think I'm going to San Diego that day - not sure when I'll be back :( |
| 17:22.24 | CBG | More fun than SL. |
| 17:22.45 | Erroneous | SportChick: :( |
| 17:22.46 | brlcad | if everyone had infiniband or was playing over a lan, the increased latency introduced might be acceptible, but under those infrastructures you've already minimized the scalability physically |
| 17:22.47 | donny_baker | i looked it up, not something I was interested in... some open source virtual environment |
| 17:23.02 | Tread | so this is y i get frustrated here, guys like cbg flood the conversation trying to be clever and add nothing |
| 17:23.20 | Tread | yep u looked it up and saw nothing |
| 17:23.20 | CBG | Trying? Why, Sir, I do believe I succeed! |
| 17:23.40 | SportChick | Erroneous: if you want to come down on a Sunday night it's still cheap but only between 5-6 - not all night like Monday |
| 17:23.51 | SportChick | same with Sat night (except 5:30-6:30) |
| 17:23.58 | Erroneous | that might work some sunday nights, but not most |
| 17:24.09 | brlcad | Tread: that's IRC for you, I've been commenting, but nay a response to the points I've made (and I'm not going to likely repeat them) |
| 17:24.11 | Tread | donny look again the it will change the world |
| 17:24.15 | SportChick | what about saturdays, Erroneous ? |
| 17:24.18 | Erroneous | and isn't this really the wrong channel? :) |
| 17:24.30 | SportChick | yes :) sorry |
| 17:24.36 | Tread | i thought this was the dev channel?? |
| 17:24.56 | CBG | Tread: sure, and what of it? :) |
| 17:24.58 | donny_baker | i was just there.. looks like a concept, but nothing that is going to change my world |
| 17:25.02 | brlcad | Erroneous: ask her to make chicken cordon bleu ;) |
| 17:25.05 | blast007 | Tread: they weren't talking to you |
| 17:25.12 | brlcad | fedex me leftovers ;) |
| 17:25.16 | Tread | donny it will |
| 17:25.17 | Erroneous | hehehe |
| 17:25.29 | CBG | Tread: you can't say that. |
| 17:25.31 | Tread | i was talking to cg |
| 17:25.38 | CBG | You have no clue what a state donny_baker' world is in currently. |
| 17:25.49 | Tread | reread i just did |
| 17:25.55 | CBG | A messy state, I would guess. |
| 17:25.56 | Tread | lol |
| 17:26.02 | CBG | Body parts strewn across the road... |
| 17:26.23 | Tread | but i gotta go i have a dinner appt w peoplewho really do wanna change stuff |
| 17:26.27 | brlcad | dev channel, and friendly chatter when it doesn't interfere |
| 17:26.45 | brlcad | being a "resident" generally gets you more leeway in that regard |
| 17:26.48 | QuantumBeep | Go bust out the C++ and write it, Tread. |
| 17:27.05 | Tread | ya im into the friendly chatter but...im also into the serious side |
| 17:27.15 | L4m3r | Tread: instead of spouting your ideas repeatedly on IRC, I suggest posting on BZBB |
| 17:27.15 | CBG | If you ever had an education, you may remember that students will talk amongst themselves occasionally, when the lesson is incredibly boring and uninteresting... |
| 17:27.27 | Tread | i like to have both if its only inane i lose interest |
| 17:27.31 | blast007 | CBG: or sleep |
| 17:27.39 | CBG | Yeah, or that... |
| 17:27.44 | SportChick | brlcad: hehe, well, if you have some time next time you're out, maybe we'll do something else so you can forget about chicken cordon bleu for a while :) |
| 17:27.59 | brlcad | SportChick: I'll be in SD this summer ;) |
| 17:28.06 | SportChick | fosscom? |
| 17:28.11 | brlcad | siggraph |
| 17:28.11 | Tread | i guess i could d that lamer ut i like direct feedback |
| 17:28.23 | L4m3r | it'll save time |
| 17:28.28 | Tread | its more like a conversation |
| 17:28.40 | SportChick | brlcad: do you have the dates yet? |
| 17:28.41 | brlcad | Tread: the best integration of p2p would be as a secondary communications pipeline |
| 17:28.44 | Tread | maybe ur right but then again... |
| 17:28.48 | L4m3r | yes, but you can save the conversation for people who are actually interested |
| 17:29.00 | L4m3r | and BZBB is a better way to find those people |
| 17:29.00 | brlcad | that would also potentially let you scale to hundreds of thousands of players |
| 17:29.19 | brlcad | I think you'll get a lot less informed discussion on bzbb |
| 17:29.20 | Tread | true but i thought the dev channel would be peple who were interested, i guess not |
| 17:29.29 | brlcad | unless jeff chimes in, but not much past that |
| 17:29.38 | brlcad | most of the reader base aren't devs |
| 17:29.50 | Tread | a good point |
| 17:29.56 | L4m3r | the dev channel just has devs... most of them are more concerned with BZFlag, you know, the tank game |
| 17:30.13 | L4m3r | (and any other projects they're involved with) |
| 17:30.30 | Tread | right so im asking whose interested in taing the concepts further? |
| 17:30.51 | blast007 | ~say I am! |
| 17:30.54 | ibot | I am! |
| 17:30.54 | brlcad | that is also quite true, I'm only interested in my interests .. and you're not much of an inspirational writer that would motivate me to work on something else at this point (no offense) |
| 17:30.59 | Tread | maye the answer is no one |
| 17:31.24 | brlcad | for integrating p2p as a backend to bzflag, I'm interested though |
| 17:31.35 | Tread | br maybe i would e if we could just talk the two of us |
| 17:31.36 | brlcad | but only as a secondary channel |
| 17:32.00 | blast007 | Tread: maybe the forum is better suited for this discussion? |
| 17:32.02 | Tread | i would like the chance to change ur mind about that br |
| 17:32.18 | blast007 | certainly would be a better record of what was discussed |
| 17:32.29 | L4m3r | ^^^ |
| 17:32.45 | brlcad | it frankly won't work for the primary given the network constraints, there are fundamental latency issues no matter what peer topology you set up |
| 17:32.46 | Tread | maybe but i want to know im not wasting my time either |
| 17:33.01 | blast007 | Tread: how would you waste any more time? |
| 17:33.09 | L4m3r | well, you're not getting anywhere here are you? ;) |
| 17:33.10 | brlcad | for the same reasons I described earlier, it scales by increasing the min latency overhead |
| 17:33.13 | blast007 | you're already content with sitting in here for hours at a time :) |
| 17:33.17 | Tread | br, i cant prve it to u now but I am sure u r wrong |
| 17:33.41 | brlcad | Tread: do you follow active networking research that gives you this feeling? |
| 17:34.16 | Tread | i have asked this specific questin and have been todl that it is exactly bcuz it is scalabale that the new architecture will be much more powerful |
| 17:34.23 | brlcad | I'd love to be proven wrong, but I'm not going to go on blind faith when I do follow the research and know the fundamental networking issues (in detail) |
| 17:34.38 | Tread | sure i appreciate that |
| 17:34.56 | Tread | but thats why id really like to get u involved |
| 17:34.59 | brlcad | being more powerful is a completely different statement |
| 17:35.14 | brlcad | i'm not disputing that it scales |
| 17:35.18 | brlcad | it scales beautifully |
| 17:35.30 | brlcad | but at a minimal overhead cost |
| 17:35.35 | Tread | yes but i mean poweful as scalable and faster |
| 17:35.45 | brlcad | that minimal overhead cost destroys the minimal attainable latency |
| 17:36.10 | brlcad | which destroys interactive real-time gaming |
| 17:36.20 | Tread | the best explanation i have for that is the integration of dynamic microservers |
| 17:36.39 | brlcad | I can play with 1M other people, but it takes 300ms-3000ms for a shot to register |
| 17:36.56 | Tread | ok give me a uestion that I can pose to the devs that will assure you |
| 17:37.12 | brlcad | a question? |
| 17:37.21 | brlcad | and what devs? |
| 17:37.22 | Tread | u tell me what u need to know to be convinced |
| 17:37.32 | Tread | the croquet devs |
| 17:38.13 | Tread | they have told me latency snt the issue u sy it is |
| 17:38.19 | brlcad | this croquet? http://www.opencroquet.org/ |
| 17:38.32 | Tread | but if that isnt enuf u tell me what to ask them |
| 17:38.33 | Tread | yep |
| 17:38.56 | brlcad | latency for some purposes would be fine, for others it can destroy |
| 17:38.58 | donny_baker | tread: in their environment it isn't, but for real-time gaming it is an issue.. |
| 17:39.01 | Tread | Feb 9 is the first rel distribution |
| 17:39.24 | brlcad | 200ms is completely acceptible in some games, but makes interactive games like bzflag painful |
| 17:39.30 | donny_baker | it is not that they don't have latency, it just doesn't affect a virtual non-real-time envoronment in the same way |
| 17:39.39 | Tread | croquet 1. comes out Feb 9 mark it on yer calndars cuz it WILL chage yer world |
| 17:39.46 | L4m3r | on top of normal lag, 200ms would suck... |
| 17:40.09 | brlcad | L4m3r: i was being overly generous and considering that as the min latency attainable |
| 17:40.13 | Tread | so plz give me a question that wil settle things for you |
| 17:40.33 | blast007 | Tread: I don't think a single question would do that ;) |
| 17:40.49 | Tread | what do u need to know or have u already decdied that the devs just have no clue? |
| 17:40.59 | Tread | then more questions |
| 17:41.25 | L4m3r | don't call the kettle black, tread |
| 17:41.30 | Tread | it doesnt matter to me im working hard here to bring u guys on bard tell me what i need to do to convince u |
| 17:41.47 | L4m3r | tread: write a patch ;) |
| 17:41.48 | Tread | im not calling anything anythng |
| 17:42.06 | Tread | lamer im not a programmer u know that |
| 17:42.29 | Tread | but i can see where things go and why |
| 17:42.32 | L4m3r | then find some people who are |
| 17:42.41 | Tread | tadaa u guys |
| 17:42.50 | L4m3r | the bzflag devs are few in number, and they're all rather busy |
| 17:42.51 | Tread | if i can get u to look deeper |
| 17:43.14 | Tread | not for somethng they ae going to have to address in future anyway |
| 17:43.14 | L4m3r | BZBB has quite a few non-dev coders hanging around |
| 17:43.21 | blast007 | Tread: I'd be interested in any research they have done or used that would back up the claims that have been made |
| 17:43.28 | brlcad | heh, I don't really have a question as I know the math doesn't work out -- but I suppose a question could be: What is the minimal network latency attainable over common cable carrier amongst players equally distributed between the US and Europe, such that it faithfully characterizes the maximum latency between any two network nodes to perform a round-trip message transfer |
| 17:45.06 | Tread | ok nw were getting somewhere |
| 17:45.19 | brlcad | not carefully worded, but it should get the point across -- how long does it take to get a message from a player in california to a player in italy (AND BACK) under this topology |
| 17:45.40 | Tread | yes xcelent i will get back to u |
| 17:46.03 | Tread | thanx |
| 17:46.12 | Tread | i realy gotta go im late |
| 17:46.12 | brlcad | there's a minimal ping latency of course, the p2p infrastructure adds some delta ms latency on top of that |
| 17:46.55 | Tread | br plz private msg me |
| 17:47.23 | Tread | can i do that from within mozilla? |
| 17:47.25 | blast007 | also, it's "brlcad", not "br" ;) |
| 17:47.32 | blast007 | yeah, should work just fine |
| 17:47.40 | blast007 | CGI:IRC supports it |
| 17:47.55 | Tread | ill ignore that blast |
| 17:47.55 | blast007 | but you might have to be registered and identified to talk to brlcad |
| 17:48.12 | blast007 | (freenode has a filter on by default) |
| 17:48.27 | brlcad | blast007: nah, I turned that crap off |
| 17:48.33 | blast007 | k :) |
| 17:49.13 | brlcad | Tread: regardless, as it applies to bzflag, I will prefer to hold the discussion publicly to not have to repeat it to others (and everything is logged) |
| 17:49.49 | blast007 | another reason why the forum is nice |
| 17:50.04 | blast007 | it's a little easier to follow a discussion on a forum |
| 17:50.21 | blast007 | and allows information to be formatted better |
| 17:50.32 | brlcad | again, it would be great for portal-style massive worlds where you transfer management over to various servers as you migrate amongst a "megamap", or as a communications backend for things like intra-server chat or streaming media (or anything non-gameplay intensive) |
| 17:51.31 | brlcad | THAT is where there is some really good stuff that could be done with P2P or really any other secondary networking layer topology |
| 17:51.59 | Tread | i have to go thank you gentlemen 4 yer time |
| 17:52.10 | brlcad | Tread: any references to actual researche too |
| 17:52.28 | brlcad | talk is hot air, published research is considerably more interesting/useful |
| 17:52.28 | Tread | yes all teh paper on the croquet website |
| 17:52.39 | brlcad | peer reviewed research |
| 17:52.44 | Tread | there are many papers there |
| 17:52.49 | Tread | yep |
| 17:53.12 | Tread | cya |
| 17:53.13 | brlcad | that concern the networking latency issues? |
| 17:53.29 | Tread | i cant say specifically to that but i think so yes |
| 17:53.48 | brlcad | if so, that's a link worth sharing (i'm not going hunting, sry) |
| 17:54.07 | donny_baker | brclad: i didn't see any from the titles, but that may just be me |
| 17:54.12 | Tread | plz dl them and read it is the future and if i can get u guys on board i will be pretty happy |
| 17:54.23 | donny_baker | http://www.opencroquet.org/about_croquet/papers.html |
| 17:54.34 | Tread | right bye |
| 17:54.42 | blast007 | cya |
| 17:57.11 | blast007 | ;) |
| 17:57.38 | blast007 | now, back to his way earlier question |
| 17:58.09 | blast007 | is there any way that playing a MP3 in the background in VLC would make him lose setting changes he made to the audio settings menu in bzflag? |
| 17:58.38 | brlcad | Erroneous: heh |
| 17:59.29 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 17:59.29 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 17:59.29 | donny_baker | brclad: one of the papers seems to conradict what tread was saying surprise, surprise |
| 17:59.34 | brlcad | s/papers/presentations/ by the author |
| 17:59.52 | Erroneous | yeah, I don't think he gets that the requirements and goals are completely different |
| 18:00.11 | donny_baker | they talk about culling messages and displaying groups of objects with individual icons to reduce network load |
| 18:01.14 | blast007 | I love how he talks like he is using AIM too |
| 18:01.57 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=4ca6ac40@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:01.58 | brlcad | the one thing it *does* have was future-time-stamped networking updates that I've mentioned having for BZ to account for lag issues by increasing the min latency slightly to decrease the asymptotic overall latency |
| 18:02.28 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 18:02.47 | blast007 | hi JeffM2501 |
| 18:02.48 | brlcad | but that can be done in a variety of manners |
| 18:03.02 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, I added time stamp and lag comp to head |
| 18:03.05 | JeffM2501 | hi |
| 18:03.21 | Erroneous | blast007: u do? i fnd it rthr annoying ;) |
| 18:03.24 | brlcad | JeffM2501: i know about the time stamping, but lag comp? |
| 18:03.27 | blast007 | Erroneous: hehe |
| 18:03.42 | blast007 | "u guyz this is teh future!!" |
| 18:03.51 | JeffM2501 | yeah made it forward plot the pos when it gets the update based on the smap |
| 18:03.54 | JeffM2501 | stamp |
| 18:04.29 | JeffM2501 | it's not perfect but it's better then we had before |
| 18:04.31 | brlcad | ahh, that's slightly different (though maybe close to the same end result) |
| 18:04.48 | JeffM2501 | as you said there are many ways to do it :) |
| 18:04.54 | JeffM2501 | it fit well into our existing system |
| 18:05.06 | ts | speaking of 2.2 what is still to do? |
| 18:05.16 | JeffM2501 | whatever you wan to do |
| 18:05.47 | ts | Heh, I want to see it shipping |
| 18:05.56 | Erroneous | ship it ;) |
| 18:06.03 | ts | I'm wondering about bug reports |
| 18:06.08 | JeffM2501 | techincaly we can ship at any time we are sure it's tested |
| 18:06.18 | JeffM2501 | I'd like to see more state verification |
| 18:06.27 | ts | Is the idban issue still there? |
| 18:06.28 | Erroneous | technically we can ship at any time period. it's just a bad idea if it's not tested ;) |
| 18:06.32 | JeffM2501 | but my time is taken up by other things |
| 18:06.48 | brlcad | JeffM2501: how much of a forward prediction do they send? |
| 18:07.07 | brlcad | and what happens when they change directions? :) |
| 18:07.14 | JeffM2501 | it's not like that |
| 18:07.22 | JeffM2501 | it's just a lag comp |
| 18:07.34 | Chestal | it's just a jitter comp I guess? |
| 18:07.35 | JeffM2501 | it moves the extrapolation forward by the lag time |
| 18:07.41 | Chestal | hmm |
| 18:07.59 | JeffM2501 | it knows what time it was on the synced clock when the update pos was sampled |
| 18:08.03 | Chestal | we had some jitter comp in 2.0, done by Tupone IIRC; but he took it out later |
| 18:08.18 | JeffM2501 | the clients then take that pos and extrapolate it to where they would be NOW when they get the update |
| 18:08.47 | JeffM2501 | so that every one seems to be in the same place at the same time on all screens |
| 18:08.53 | JeffM2501 | needs lots of testing |
| 18:08.56 | JeffM2501 | may have flaws |
| 18:09.24 | ts | Was there a test with more than 3 players yet? |
| 18:09.42 | JeffM2501 | don't know |
| 18:09.59 | Chestal | JeffM2501: but if a player changes speed/direction, that introduces discontinuities, doesn't it? |
| 18:10.13 | JeffM2501 | same as we have now |
| 18:10.21 | Chestal | we have that now when there is jitter |
| 18:10.40 | Chestal | but not with constant latencies (in theory) |
| 18:10.41 | JeffM2501 | we have that now when there is no jitter, the time it takes for the update to send, the player is in a bad prediction |
| 18:10.44 | JeffM2501 | can't get past that |
| 18:10.58 | JeffM2501 | depends how often the packets are sent and the transit time |
| 18:11.02 | Chestal | but if I understood you correctly, you make a simple extrapolation of tank movement |
| 18:11.02 | JeffM2501 | and how fast they can change dir |
| 18:11.09 | JeffM2501 | no no no |
| 18:11.13 | Tupone | I removed for Mouse Acceleration habit giving bad extrapolation |
| 18:11.34 | JeffM2501 | it just does one more extrapolation ( like we do for DR ) when we get the packet |
| 18:11.35 | JeffM2501 | it's very simple |
| 18:12.27 | Tupone | you could not guess where the tank was |
| 18:12.31 | Chestal | let's say we have global synced time. player A's positon is Xa(t) at time t, he sends that positon, B received it at time t+dt |
| 18:12.43 | Chestal | so where is the tank displayed in player B's screen? |
| 18:12.57 | Chestal | 2.0 code puts it at Xa(t) |
| 18:13.07 | ts | Tupone: Hehe but that's almost the entire point of setting cursor acceleration so high |
| 18:13.35 | Chestal | I would have guessed you ut it at Xa(t) + dt*Va(t) |
| 18:14.25 | Chestal | woah, netwrk wackiness here |
| 18:14.37 | Tupone | ts then removing extrapolation helped a little |
| 18:15.24 | ts | Tupone: People came up with a little bit real jitter after that |
| 18:16.19 | JeffM2501 | poor wireless :( |
| 18:16.26 | JeffM2501 | poor wireless :( |
| 18:16.29 | Tupone | when I removed that, jitter increased for average player, but guessing increased too for ME |
| 18:17.14 | Tupone | I prefer fighting ME :) |
| 18:17.22 | ts | Tupone: I played better with extrapolation |
| 18:17.31 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2502 (n=4ca6ac40@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:17.57 | Tupone | ts, me too, but not against ME, against ME was worst with extrapolation |
| 18:18.07 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 18:18.20 | JeffM2501 | wow, people actualy use this web interface? |
| 18:18.50 | blast007 | JeffM2501: heh, yeah |
| 18:19.07 | JeffM2501 | probalby don't help that I'm at 50% signal here too |
| 18:19.22 | blast007 | treadbaron was here for an hour or two with it |
| 18:19.45 | JeffM2501 | well, I just wanted to mention that I did put some lag comp in, it's cheap, but I think it works better then what we had before. But it's by no means a complete or total solution |
| 18:19.50 | JeffM2501 | I did it in like 10 min |
| 18:20.04 | JeffM2501 | I'd have no problem if it was expand or replaced |
| 18:21.10 | JeffM2501 | I'd be willing to help test more once I get back into my house, or even back in my own town |
| 18:22.09 | SportChick | hey JeffM2501 |
| 18:22.46 | JeffM2501 | hi |
| 18:23.05 | Chestal | I say put some student on it, master thesis or something. Let him capture some real-game movements and work on compensation algorithms in a simulated environment or something :-) |
| 18:23.26 | SportChick | JeffM2501: I ran into an old friend of yours recently |
| 18:23.49 | JeffM2501 | chestal it's not rocket science, why don't we jus use something some other game uses :) |
| 18:24.07 | Chestal | I am still skeptical about any compensatin tha tgoes beyond pure jitter compensation (which is trivial if you allow some extra latency) |
| 18:24.08 | JeffM2501 | SportChick: who? |
| 18:24.27 | JeffM2501 | Chestal: other games seem to work fine is all I'm saying |
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| 18:25.08 | Winterberry | Hey all ~ |
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| 18:25.52 | blast007 | hi Winterberry |
| 18:26.01 | Chestal | JeffM2501: actually, I think it's more complex than reocket science ;-) |
| 18:26.58 | Tupone | if you don't put limit on acceleration and jitter, you cannot put a limit on error. That is why I removed it |
| 18:28.38 | JeffM2501 | not realy, cus it's just trajectory stuff :) |
| 18:28.49 | JeffM2501 | but realy there are lots of exmaples of it in games |
| 18:29.00 | JeffM2501 | quake would be a good one for us to look at |
| 18:29.55 | Chestal | does quake have relatively slow shots which you can evade? |
| 18:30.36 | Chestal | thats one think I would assume is dfferent in bz from the most typical FPS |
| 18:32.04 | JeffM2501 | yes, BFGs |
| 18:32.06 | Chestal | I haven't taken the time to do in-depth research, so maybe there are techniques which are good compromises |
| 18:32.21 | JeffM2501 | many games have rockers and stuff that you DO evade |
| 18:32.34 | Chestal | but you will always sacrifice one kind of accuracy for another |
| 18:32.37 | JeffM2501 | yes I know you haven't, I'm just asking that some research be done before some student is sent off |
| 18:32.54 | JeffM2501 | yes you will but often it's ok for the scale and framerate involved |
| 18:32.55 | Chestal | heh, the student is supposed to do the research :-) |
| 18:34.16 | Erroneous | ~Chestal++ |
| 18:34.35 | JBdiGriz | Does someone have a couple of spare graduate students lying around? |
| 18:34.49 | Erroneous | there are always spare graduate students ;) |
| 18:35.04 | JBdiGriz | Erroneous: Do you have any? |
| 18:35.06 | Chestal | the problem is to talk my superior into letting some student doing this kind of work |
| 18:35.17 | Erroneous | the grant money is where the shortage is ;) |
| 18:35.30 | Erroneous | JBdiGriz: I could find some in a jiffy |
| 18:35.53 | JBdiGriz | So find a couple, and get back to me. I suspect that their professor will disagree with you. |
| 18:36.11 | Erroneous | hehe |
| 18:37.10 | Erroneous | JBdiGriz: the question is, would THEY disagree? ;) |
| 18:37.53 | JBdiGriz | I like Chestal's idea of asking the professor, and letting them spare the graduate students. |
| 18:38.16 | Erroneous | still have the funding problem |
| 18:38.56 | JBdiGriz | That's what the professor does, writes the grant that gets funding, and then determines if the research can fit within the funding. |
| 18:39.31 | Erroneous | then you're asking them to work, which means you need to be awefully convincing |
| 18:39.36 | Erroneous | which was the original problem |
| 18:40.20 | Erroneous | not that I don't think it's doable |
| 18:45.03 | brlcad | howdy JBdiGriz |
| 18:45.54 | brlcad | heh, "graduate students lying around" sounds like a case for sexual misconduct at a uni :) |
| 18:47.42 | brlcad | hm, or maybe that's just my twisted interpretation |
| 18:49.28 | spldart | Well... it tells us where your mind is ;-) |
| 18:53.01 | brlcad | :) |
| 18:53.36 | Erroneous | apparently his mind is lying around ;) |
| 18:57.34 | SportChick | hi JBdiGriz |
| 18:57.44 | SportChick | heh |
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| 19:39.45 | CBG | ~donny_baker++ |
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| 20:10.24 | Legoguy | we;ve got a cheater “yourmumscock” at Missile War; several properly locked GM’s can’t kill, not to mention standard shots |
| 20:13.03 | brad | yep, he's got a speed cheat aswell |
| 20:16.03 | Legoguy | cah some one ban him? polls aren’t going so well :< |
| 20:16.48 | brad | >_> |
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| 20:22.40 | Legoguy | the only way he can die is by TKing or being TK’d |
| 20:23.16 | Legoguy | and the occasional GM, but thats rare… his lag is ~50ms |
| 20:30.52 | Legoguy | client ver 2.0.8.20061228-MAINT-W32VC8 not that that means anything |
| 20:31.44 | gsnedders | Legoguy: how many more people you need for a pole? |
| 20:31.46 | gsnedders | *poll |
| 20:32.10 | Erroneous | how many people do you need to screw in a lightbulb? |
| 20:32.19 | gsnedders | 0b10 |
| 20:32.23 | Erroneous | divide that by two, and you'll get the number for a pole ;) |
| 20:32.30 | gsnedders | 0b1 |
| 20:32.31 | CBG | depends on the size of the room... |
| 20:32.53 | CBG | minimum of 2, one to hold the lightbulb and the other(s) to spin the room around |
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| 20:36.29 | Erroneous | mmm, cgi:irc |
| 20:38.14 | JeffM2501 | yeah yeah yeah |
| 20:38.18 | JeffM2501 | tis vile |
| 20:38.24 | Erroneous | hehe |
| 20:38.42 | Erroneous | heh |
| 20:39.37 | Legoguy | gsnedders: between 3 and 5 |
| 20:39.57 | Legoguy | for this room |
| 20:40.19 | JeffM2501 | how is work goin? |
| 20:40.41 | Erroneous | goin' fine |
| 20:41.20 | Legoguy | grrr this guy is really being a problem now, carrying flags, rotating teams, etc, all the whiile essentially unkillable |
| 20:41.28 | JeffM2501 | cool |
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| 20:56.38 | Legoguy | http://www.bzflag.org/wiki/KnownCheats hmm the suggestion at the very bottom looks certainly plausible, has it been tried yet? |
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| 21:16.29 | JBdiGriz | hi SportChick, brlcad (long lag times right now, due to lunch and actual work) |
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| 21:33.18 | ts | Legoguy: That would not work as it could be faked |
| 21:34.36 | gsnedders | there's no way the client can say if it's modified. |
| 21:34.41 | gsnedders | any such way can be faked. |
| 21:36.01 | ts | plus it would always point to me as I run modified clients ;) |
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| 21:37.08 | SportChick | JBdiGriz: real live work? ! :) |
| 21:37.08 | gsnedders | ts: likewise :) |
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| 22:01.54 | JBdiGriz | no, dead work like everyone else does. |
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