| 00:00.22 | logixoul | but the premade suse binary of 2.0.8 works fine with a window |
| 00:00.49 | logixoul | btw the -zoom option doesn't seem to have any effect either |
| 00:06.02 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 00:14.12 | logixoul | JeffM2501: figured it out! |
| 00:14.18 | logixoul | just had to press f1 |
| 00:14.19 | logixoul | :) |
| 00:14.21 | JeffM2501 | cool |
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| 01:17.31 | Gnurdux | Thumper_, you there? |
| 01:17.48 | Gnurdux | the php for plosileague seems to be screwed up, and i seem to remember you control the web server and stuff |
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| 01:33.21 | Thumper_ | Gnurdux: i am now |
| 01:33.36 | Gnurdux | ok thnx |
| 01:35.36 | Thumper_ | Gnurdux: screwed up how? |
| 01:35.43 | Gnurdux | check it out |
| 01:35.48 | Gnurdux | http://league.bzfx.net/ |
| 01:35.53 | Gnurdux | it looks like you upgraded php |
| 01:35.58 | Gnurdux | but didnt setup the mysql mod |
| 01:36.09 | Thumper_ | oh probably |
| 01:39.19 | Gnurdux | can you fix it? |
| 01:39.49 | Thumper_ | possibly |
| 01:40.43 | Gnurdux | thnx |
| 01:43.56 | Thumper_ | Gnurdux: try that |
| 01:44.04 | Gnurdux | yay thnx |
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| 02:18.39 | view | anyone here using an intel mac? |
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| 02:21.01 | inchworm | me? |
| 02:34.58 | JeffM2501 | interesting no offical G3 support in OSX 10.5 |
| 02:35.05 | JeffM2501 | bye bye old imac |
| 02:37.37 | inchworm | maybe a nice linux? |
| 02:38.57 | spldart | mmMMMmm nice linux |
| 02:39.19 | JeffM2501 | good luck geting PPC video drivers for em :) |
| 02:39.32 | JeffM2501 | but yeah, that's going to be what they are stuck with |
| 02:39.45 | JeffM2501 | and IIRC geting linux to bootload on those things is a pain |
| 02:40.25 | JeffM2501 | just means that all those 10.2 users who are "waiting till 10.5 to upgrade" and who are on a G3, are waiting for nothing. |
| 02:41.23 | PuMpErNiCkLe | Unless someone comes up with a clever hack. |
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| 02:41.59 | JeffM2501 | devs say they can get it to install, but a lot of apps don't run |
| 02:42.09 | JeffM2501 | as they are built with altavec support |
| 02:42.13 | JeffM2501 | that the G3 dosn't have |
| 02:42.32 | JeffM2501 | if they compile more stuff with altavec then it's going to be hard to "hack" around that |
| 02:42.56 | JeffM2501 | 10.4 will run on most of the old iMacs, and it's prety good |
| 02:43.03 | PuMpErNiCkLe | True. |
| 02:43.14 | JeffM2501 | just gotta get em to 10.3 or later :) |
| 02:43.27 | JeffM2501 | so they get the new libs and can run BZ 2.2 |
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| 03:17.04 | master_tux | Question: Will BSD Sockets work on Windows as well as Linux? |
| 03:17.09 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 03:17.20 | JeffM2501 | windows does not have BSD compliant sockerts |
| 03:17.22 | JeffM2501 | it has winsoc |
| 03:17.25 | JeffM2501 | its' close |
| 03:17.29 | JeffM2501 | but not exactly the same |
| 03:17.40 | JeffM2501 | you can get some simple wrapers if you want |
| 03:17.52 | JeffM2501 | I use SDLNet as a low end wraper and it works fine. |
| 03:18.09 | master_tux | See, I want to create a Linux/Windows compatible IRC bot |
| 03:18.25 | JeffM2501 | in what language? |
| 03:18.31 | master_tux | C++ |
| 03:18.41 | JeffM2501 | well then do I have news for YOU! |
| 03:18.43 | JeffM2501 | use libIRC :) |
| 03:19.01 | JeffM2501 | it'll even handle the crap of the IRC protocoll for you |
| 03:19.10 | JeffM2501 | and works on all 3 major OSs |
| 03:19.16 | JeffM2501 | even includes a sample bot |
| 03:19.43 | master_tux | Thank you |
| 03:19.56 | JeffM2501 | oddly enough I was just working on it too, that's wierd |
| 03:20.30 | JeffM2501 | but if you want low level stuff, it also has a simple TCP conection class |
| 03:20.39 | JeffM2501 | as well as shows how to use SDLnet |
| 03:20.52 | JeffM2501 | and it's SDLnet has been delinked from the rest of SDL |
| 03:21.13 | master_tux | Jeff, do you help develop upcoming versions of BZFlag? |
| 03:21.48 | JeffM2501 | yeah, when I have time. |
| 03:22.21 | master_tux | I have a suggestion, you might want to combine with PunkBuster to get rid of those cheat clients |
| 03:22.49 | JeffM2501 | the problem isn't something punkbuster can realy find right now |
| 03:22.56 | JeffM2501 | we trust the client for all things |
| 03:23.07 | JeffM2501 | to do punkbuster we'd have to give it all our game logic |
| 03:23.32 | JeffM2501 | if we can put all the game logic on the server, we don't need punk buster cus we can just disallow all input that dosn't fit the game logic :) |
| 03:23.55 | JeffM2501 | punkbuster is good for finding aimbots and things that are automated that shoudn't be, not things that a simple protocoll change can fix |
| 03:24.12 | JeffM2501 | it assumes an authortive server state, that's what it uses to do it's tests. |
| 03:24.24 | master_tux | Well, I mean like shot distance modification, God modes, double flag bearing, etc. |
| 03:24.34 | JeffM2501 | yeah you can't do that kinda crap in 2.1 anymore |
| 03:24.37 | JeffM2501 | cept god mode |
| 03:24.46 | JeffM2501 | but we'll fix that when the server computes deaths |
| 03:25.11 | JeffM2501 | to have punkbuster kick for god mode, it'd have to know when the player got shot |
| 03:25.24 | JeffM2501 | and if it can know that, then we can do server side death, and then a client just can't do god mode |
| 03:25.34 | JeffM2501 | it's a chicken and egg thing |
| 03:25.38 | master_tux | That would be smart though |
| 03:25.49 | JeffM2501 | sure, the plan is to move all logic server side |
| 03:25.56 | master_tux | It would make the server lag more, theoretically |
| 03:26.01 | JeffM2501 | no it woudln't |
| 03:26.11 | JeffM2501 | it's the same network trafic we have now, it just starts in a difrent place |
| 03:26.18 | JeffM2501 | no additional messages |
| 03:26.32 | JeffM2501 | actualy with it we can reduce the number of messages and use less bandith :) |
| 03:26.43 | JeffM2501 | it'll use a smidge more CPU, but not much at all |
| 03:27.06 | JeffM2501 | I've got the 2.1 server doing client side DR, and that hasn't added any vissable load. |
| 03:27.42 | JeffM2501 | punkbuster was made to get around very subtle cheats in quake |
| 03:27.47 | JeffM2501 | like aimbots |
| 03:27.58 | JeffM2501 | our current cheats are simple thigns the server can test for, it just dosn't |
| 03:28.31 | master_tux | You distribute the bzflag source, thus anyone can make a modified client so that it could do anything |
| 03:28.34 | JeffM2501 | like in 2.1 it's now totaly imposible to fire a shot that you dn't have |
| 03:28.43 | JeffM2501 | not if the server double checks stuff |
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| 03:28.57 | JeffM2501 | the 2.1 clinet can't say "fire a GM" when it dosn't have a GM |
| 03:29.03 | JeffM2501 | cus all the client says now is "fire" |
| 03:29.08 | JeffM2501 | and the server adds on the shot |
| 03:29.19 | JeffM2501 | a modified client can't change the server code |
| 03:29.54 | master_tux | Well, thats when cheats become hacks |
| 03:30.16 | JeffM2501 | if you can hack the server to modify running code on it, you can do a lot more then just change a silly game ;) |
| 03:30.35 | JeffM2501 | at that point your talking machine security |
| 03:30.55 | JeffM2501 | punkbuster wouldn't stop that |
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| 03:31.13 | master_tux | There are numerous hacks for CSS and Halo 2 that have nothing to do with computer security |
| 03:31.36 | JeffM2501 | sure, that's due to subtle flaws in the protocoll |
| 03:31.53 | JeffM2501 | you can't ever get rid of 100% of the cheaters |
| 03:31.58 | JeffM2501 | but you can minimise what they can do |
| 03:32.06 | JeffM2501 | right now in 2.0.x they can do prety much anything |
| 03:32.11 | JeffM2501 | cus the server just trusts them |
| 03:32.20 | JeffM2501 | in 2.2 we'll trust the client a lot less |
| 03:32.27 | JeffM2501 | and that shoudl clean up the game. |
| 03:32.41 | JeffM2501 | after that we'll see what people do with the new limits and go from there |
| 03:33.05 | master_tux | Well, they always suprise me |
| 03:33.10 | JeffM2501 | if the cheats go from godmode and anyflag to aimbots and autododge, then something like punkbuster becomes a lot more viable |
| 03:33.28 | JeffM2501 | but right now we'd not even be able to give punkbuster all the info on the server it would need |
| 03:33.44 | master_tux | By the way, are there more people playing 2.0.x then 2.1 at the moment? |
| 03:33.47 | JeffM2501 | punkbuster works by basicly running a copy of the game itself and looking at what happens. |
| 03:33.53 | blast007 | master_tux: yes |
| 03:33.55 | JeffM2501 | ohh yeah |
| 03:33.59 | JeffM2501 | 2.1 isn't released |
| 03:34.03 | JeffM2501 | it's in development |
| 03:34.04 | blast007 | hardly anyone plays on 2.1 |
| 03:34.04 | master_tux | CVS |
| 03:34.16 | JeffM2501 | few of our players can build |
| 03:34.20 | master_tux | I just ran it to see the new mountains :) |
| 03:34.35 | JeffM2501 | it's not even in beta yet |
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| 03:35.31 | JeffM2501 | if we released 2.1 right now, we'd get rid of a lot of shot cheats, flag cheats, and some movement cheats, but we'd still not be able to fix godmode |
| 03:35.39 | JeffM2501 | that's gonna take more work |
| 03:35.45 | JeffM2501 | tho some of the groundwork has been setup |
| 03:36.02 | bz24 | hellom i was wandering if anyone can help me with a registering problem |
| 03:36.12 | JeffM2501 | what is the problem? |
| 03:36.23 | bz24 | i neevr got my actavation email |
| 03:36.26 | bz24 | never |
| 03:36.28 | JeffM2501 | what is the account? |
| 03:36.36 | bz24 | soccerslayer |
| 03:37.09 | master_tux | Jeff: Isnt it just have the server get the tank position, get the shot position, if tank_position = shot_position then kill tank |
| 03:37.31 | JeffM2501 | bz24, what was the domain of the e-mail address? |
| 03:37.40 | blast007 | master_tux: little more complex than that |
| 03:37.44 | JeffM2501 | master_tux, yeah basicly, lag comped |
| 03:37.44 | bz24 | Manofsteel714@sbcglobal.net |
| 03:38.08 | JeffM2501 | bz24, well I didn't need the entire thing but ok |
| 03:38.10 | JeffM2501 | your activated now |
| 03:38.18 | bz24 | ok thanks man! |
| 03:38.20 | JeffM2501 | master_tux, geting those postions and being accurate with them is the fun part |
| 03:38.32 | JeffM2501 | the server has the tank postions ( mostly ), it dos't track the shots |
| 03:38.53 | JeffM2501 | I need to make the tank interp take collisions into account. |
| 03:39.24 | master_tux | Collision detection has been used for years in raycasting, xyz |
| 03:39.25 | JeffM2501 | if your checks are slopy on the server, people will blow up on near misses due to lag induced inaccuracy |
| 03:39.41 | JeffM2501 | sure, we have all the code to do it, it's on the client |
| 03:39.45 | JeffM2501 | it's just a matter of moving it around |
| 03:39.52 | JeffM2501 | it's not somethign you just "strap on" |
| 03:40.30 | master_tux | Well, do you get anything out of helping develop bzflag? |
| 03:40.30 | JeffM2501 | bzflag wasn't writen to be very modular, sadly |
| 03:40.37 | JeffM2501 | what do you mean? |
| 03:40.44 | master_tux | Whats in it for you? |
| 03:40.59 | JeffM2501 | fun, if anything |
| 03:41.07 | JeffM2501 | we arn't paid or anything |
| 03:41.14 | master_tux | Sounds more like ulcers to me |
| 03:41.23 | JeffM2501 | not realy |
| 03:41.30 | JeffM2501 | you only work on what you want to work |
| 03:41.40 | JeffM2501 | noone forces anyone to do anything |
| 03:42.01 | master_tux | You dont have expectations? |
| 03:42.21 | master_tux | A list, perhaps, on what should be included on the next version? |
| 03:42.36 | blast007 | there isn't any hard set "this MUST be done" list |
| 03:42.49 | blast007 | it's more like "things that would be nice" |
| 03:42.49 | DTRemenak | the only thing we have is a list of what has already been done |
| 03:42.51 | JeffM2501 | there are a couple lists, but yeah, nothing anyone says "this has to be done" |
| 03:42.52 | DTRemenak | the future is unknown |
| 03:43.08 | JeffM2501 | there isn't a strong management, like other OpenSource projects |
| 03:43.18 | master_tux | How many of you are working on it? |
| 03:43.35 | JeffM2501 | depends how you define that |
| 03:43.47 | JeffM2501 | over 60 people have commit access |
| 03:43.57 | JeffM2501 | usualy less then 20 commit in a year |
| 03:44.09 | JeffM2501 | in realitly it's 5-7 people who commit the most |
| 03:44.41 | master_tux | Does that include you? |
| 03:44.53 | JeffM2501 | I have commit access, yes |
| 03:45.26 | JeffM2501 | huh? |
| 03:45.32 | JeffM2501 | CIA tracks our commits |
| 03:45.44 | master_tux | Gov? |
| 03:45.47 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 03:45.49 | blast007 | http://cia.navi.cx/ |
| 03:45.52 | master_tux | Oh |
| 03:46.19 | JeffM2501 | bahh CIA dosn't show comparitive graphs |
| 03:46.27 | JeffM2501 | brlcad, did them at one point from the logs IIRC |
| 03:46.52 | JeffM2501 | http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag has our last set of commits |
| 03:47.08 | brad | http://www.ohloh.net/projects/189/ |
| 03:47.24 | blast007 | brad: darn, beat me to it |
| 03:47.27 | brad | :) |
| 03:47.29 | JeffM2501 | ahh I'm number 2 |
| 03:47.39 | master_tux | Whats the point of tracking them? They dont bitch about it do they? |
| 03:47.45 | JeffM2501 | for fun |
| 03:48.00 | JeffM2501 | CIA also notifiys us here |
| 03:48.02 | JeffM2501 | so that's nice |
| 03:48.49 | blast007 | for # of commits you are #2, for code total, #1 |
| 03:48.53 | JeffM2501 | hah.. we've been flaged as "Declining development activity" |
| 03:49.20 | master_tux | Jeff: You just updated the plugins yesterday 0_i |
| 03:49.30 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 03:49.53 | JeffM2501 | couple API additions |
| 03:50.13 | JeffM2501 | wtf.. where did we get 19 files in the mozilla license? |
| 03:51.22 | master_tux | Jeff: You include plugins made for bzflag in upcoming versions? |
| 03:51.29 | master_tux | Like ones made by non-devs? |
| 03:52.00 | JeffM2501 | not as part of the offical builds |
| 03:52.14 | JeffM2501 | if we don't have it in our source tree, we won't build and ship it |
| 03:52.18 | JeffM2501 | we are lgpl |
| 03:52.22 | JeffM2501 | so we have to have source too |
| 03:52.50 | JeffM2501 | we take plugins from others and add them to our source tree if they give them to us tho |
| 03:53.21 | JeffM2501 | in fact I think windows is the only binary package that even ships with plugins |
| 03:53.22 | master_tux | Has Gnurdux ever offered you his plugins? |
| 03:53.33 | JeffM2501 | he has never offered that I know of |
| 03:54.36 | JeffM2501 | if he wanted to update some of them for 2.2 and submit them I'm sure we could work them in |
| 03:54.53 | purple_cow | har |
| 03:55.12 | purple_cow | of course, most did |
| 03:55.14 | JeffM2501 | only cus most of his stuff was not in cvs |
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| 04:04.14 | master_tux | I see monkey... |
| 04:04.17 | *** join/#bzflag [shorty114] (n=shorty11@unaffiliated/shorty114) |
| 04:05.26 | master_tux | Ohs Noe! |
| 04:52.08 | shorty114 | i hate WG |
| 04:52.20 | shorty114 | enough that it's the reason i gave up bzflag :\ |
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| 04:52.35 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 04:56.32 | eTangenT | there are servers sans-WG |
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| 08:28.53 | CJC | Anyone home? |
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| 11:29.56 | A_Heart_Attack | could someone help me with this problem: in game, on my radar, the bases are not colored. I have tried deleting my config a few times but it still does not work. Does anyone know the config line to make the bases apear colored on radar? |
| 11:30.13 | A_Heart_Attack | or any other way to solve this? |
| 11:30.36 | Manu | old monitor? |
| 11:30.49 | Manu | mean screen |
| 11:31.13 | A_Heart_Attack | brand new computer |
| 11:31.26 | A_Heart_Attack | :P |
| 11:32.38 | Manu | have you tried options -> gui Radar Opacity and size? |
| 11:32.56 | Manu | and enhanced radar.. |
| 11:35.44 | Manu | what color depth are you using? |
| 11:36.33 | Manu | A_Heart_Attack? |
| 11:38.26 | A_Heart_Attack | oh |
| 11:38.28 | A_Heart_Attack | sorry |
| 11:38.39 | A_Heart_Attack | i had to take out the trash |
| 11:38.47 | Manu | :) |
| 11:38.54 | A_Heart_Attack | my radar is compleatly opaque |
| 11:39.03 | A_Heart_Attack | biggest is canbe |
| 11:39.10 | A_Heart_Attack | it is enhanced |
| 11:39.22 | A_Heart_Attack | even with normal its the same way |
| 11:39.29 | A_Heart_Attack | an color depth? |
| 11:39.29 | Manu | windows? |
| 11:39.32 | A_Heart_Attack | yeah |
| 11:39.34 | A_Heart_Attack | ;) |
| 11:39.52 | Manu | right click on the desktop |
| 11:40.05 | A_Heart_Attack | k? |
| 11:40.06 | Manu | properties.. (screen( |
| 11:40.16 | Manu | then you can change resolution and color depth |
| 11:40.35 | Manu | to see/set your color depth |
| 11:40.36 | A_Heart_Attack | which tab? |
| 11:40.38 | A_Heart_Attack | settings? |
| 11:40.49 | Manu | I'm not a windows user but it's |
| 11:40.55 | Manu | right click on the desktoop |
| 11:41.00 | Manu | to popy up a menu |
| 11:41.04 | A_Heart_Attack | yeah |
| 11:41.11 | Manu | the last option IIRC (property) |
| 11:41.19 | Manu | it shows you a config window |
| 11:41.34 | Manu | you can see in one of the tabs the resolution and the color depth |
| 11:41.50 | *** part/#bzflag A_Heart_Attack (n=bzhearta@unaffiliated/aheartattack/x-000001) |
| 11:41.56 | Manu | :/ |
| 11:41.56 | *** join/#bzflag A_Heart_Attack (n=bzhearta@unaffiliated/aheartattack/x-000001) |
| 11:41.58 | A_Heart_Attack | ... |
| 11:41.59 | A_Heart_Attack | wow |
| 11:42.02 | Manu | :) |
| 11:42.11 | A_Heart_Attack | i closed the window when trying to resize it |
| 11:42.19 | Manu | look if the depth is 24 or 32 |
| 11:42.19 | A_Heart_Attack | can you please repeat that? |
| 11:42.28 | A_Heart_Attack | 32 |
| 11:42.32 | Manu | then it's ok |
| 11:42.39 | A_Heart_Attack | k |
| 11:42.46 | Manu | and the bzflag config is ok too |
| 11:42.52 | A_Heart_Attack | k |
| 11:42.57 | Manu | look if you can adjuste your monitor gamma |
| 11:43.23 | A_Heart_Attack | ? |
| 11:43.31 | Manu | the color level.. |
| 11:43.48 | A_Heart_Attack | how would i go about doing that? |
| 11:44.04 | Manu | in that config window advance or so |
| 11:44.08 | Manu | advanced.. |
| 11:44.15 | Manu | it depends of your graphic card |
| 11:44.29 | Manu | what graphics card are you using? |
| 11:44.41 | A_Heart_Attack | one sev |
| 11:44.42 | A_Heart_Attack | *sec |
| 11:46.01 | A_Heart_Attack | Intel graphics media accelerator driver for moble |
| 11:46.04 | A_Heart_Attack | is that the one |
| 11:46.04 | A_Heart_Attack | ? |
| 11:46.42 | Manu | Intel.. :) |
| 11:47.11 | Manu | your bzflag config is ok.. so must be your graphic card/monitor config |
| 11:47.35 | A_Heart_Attack | ok |
| 11:47.46 | A_Heart_Attack | is their any way i can fix this? |
| 11:48.04 | Manu | I'm not sure |
| 11:48.31 | A_Heart_Attack | ok |
| 11:48.36 | A_Heart_Attack | thanks for you help |
| 11:48.37 | Manu | wait for another dev |
| 11:49.08 | A_Heart_Attack | i will |
| 11:49.13 | A_Heart_Attack | i have a snow day today |
| 11:49.13 | Manu | I have heard it before. Others are having this problem |
| 11:49.16 | A_Heart_Attack | so i have all day |
| 11:49.20 | A_Heart_Attack | ;) |
| 11:49.21 | Manu | :) |
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| 12:48.28 | fiberchunks | hrm, there's no ubuntu package for bzflag eh? |
| 12:57.52 | Pommes | fiberchunks: I think there's an old one. |
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| 15:04.30 | NikoGecko | hiho everyone |
| 15:04.44 | NikoGecko | ........ anyone here? |
| 15:04.49 | Gnurdux | i am |
| 15:04.55 | NikoGecko | ah |
| 15:05.14 | NikoGecko | i've been getting into BZFlag a lot recently |
| 15:05.38 | NikoGecko | brbz |
| 15:23.16 | master_tux | No skool |
| 15:23.21 | master_tux | Freezing rain |
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| 15:54.07 | donny_baker | can someone pass me a really big shovel, preferably with someone to operate it :) |
| 15:54.45 | TheRedBaron | donny_baker: I could send you some tickets to florida instead. :) |
| 15:55.10 | donny_baker | airport is/was closed :( |
| 15:55.26 | TheRedBaron | hrm |
| 15:55.32 | TheRedBaron | you'll need more than a shovel then |
| 15:55.36 | donny_baker | had 4 ft drifts in the driveway today... 2-3 ft in the street |
| 15:56.10 | donny_baker | got up at 2, used the snow blower for about 2 hrs to get out of the driveway |
| 15:56.28 | donny_baker | and just spent another 3 to clear it all |
| 16:03.02 | brad | is there a flag grab event in 2.0? |
| 16:04.49 | MT|WarRock | 0_o |
| 16:04.53 | MT|WarRock | I would hope so |
| 16:05.32 | MT|WarRock | Otherwise I dont beileve you would be able to make SW go off at someones base when you cap.. |
| 16:06.00 | brad | I think that's in the map files |
| 16:06.10 | MT|WarRock | Hmm |
| 16:06.20 | MT|WarRock | Aha |
| 16:06.29 | MT|WarRock | The CTF color plugin |
| 16:06.40 | MT|WarRock | When you cap, the sky turns to the color of the winning team |
| 16:06.56 | brad | that uses the cap event, not flag grab event |
| 16:07.14 | MT|WarRock | What do you want to happen when you grab the flag? |
| 16:07.37 | MT|WarRock | Ive seen a server that makes you drop certain flags when you pick them up |
| 16:08.10 | brad | well.. I need to basically send a message when someone grabs a team flag |
| 16:09.08 | MT|WarRock | Have you read the BZFlag documentation? |
| 16:09.15 | brad | yes |
| 16:09.20 | ts | There is no documentation basically |
| 16:09.26 | MT|WarRock | Well, there is |
| 16:09.27 | brad | :) |
| 16:09.32 | brad | it's not up-to-date |
| 16:09.47 | ts | MT|WarRock: I am one of the developers and I say there is hardly documentation |
| 16:09.48 | MT|WarRock | In 2.0 it described all the functions and API bzflag uses... |
| 16:10.06 | ts | Noodleman, there is undocumented stuff |
| 16:10.07 | brad | it is missing lots of functions and events |
| 16:10.10 | MT|WarRock | I know, I saw you on the CVS checkout thing |
| 16:10.39 | brad | hmm. reading bzbb it says Jeff added a flag DROP event in 2.1 |
| 16:10.41 | ts | Err, wrong callsign :/ |
| 16:10.55 | brad | perhaps flag grab is only in 2.1 |
| 16:11.08 | ts | Check the code, then you know it |
| 16:11.17 | brad | :( |
| 16:11.21 | MT|WarRock | OnPickup() :) |
| 16:11.23 | MT|WarRock | jk |
| 16:11.26 | Gnurdux | brad, what isi t? |
| 16:11.26 | ts | Look at the name of event then search ;) |
| 16:11.35 | Gnurdux | oh, flag grab event in 2.0 |
| 16:11.41 | Gnurdux | no, all the plugins do osmehting hackish |
| 16:11.48 | brad | how do they do it? |
| 16:11.49 | Gnurdux | they just check who has the flag every tick event |
| 16:11.54 | brad | oh.. |
| 16:11.58 | brad | that's bad :) |
| 16:12.06 | Gnurdux | i said it was hackish |
| 16:12.09 | Gnurdux | 2.0 sucks |
| 16:12.23 | Gnurdux | plus, it only takes like 3 lines to become immortal |
| 16:12.31 | MT|WarRock | Gah |
| 16:12.41 | Gnurdux | theres one cheat that im worried is impossible to eliminate |
| 16:12.52 | Gnurdux | even in 2.1 |
| 16:12.58 | MT|WarRock | Yea |
| 16:13.00 | MT|WarRock | God mode |
| 16:13.04 | Gnurdux | no, lol |
| 16:13.06 | MT|WarRock | Jeff was talking to me last night |
| 16:13.08 | Gnurdux | thats easy to eliminate |
| 16:13.09 | MT|WarRock | 0_o |
| 16:13.11 | Gnurdux | just make server handle kills |
| 16:13.16 | Gnurdux | they just havent done that yet |
| 16:13.19 | MT|WarRock | Yea yea |
| 16:13.23 | MT|WarRock | I suggested PunkBuster |
| 16:13.28 | Gnurdux | ill tell brad in msg, i dont want htis idea getting around |
| 16:13.33 | MT|WarRock | But he said only if there were like aimbots and stuff |
| 16:13.36 | brad | I don't really care :) |
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| 16:16.59 | ts | MT|WarRock: Aimbots don't make very much sense in this game as the bullets are slow. Only advantage would be when people are falling down and you can to catch them in all cases |
| 16:17.56 | MT|WarRock | Right now the client calculates bullet speed, right? |
| 16:18.01 | MT|WarRock | So the server can be fooled |
| 16:18.24 | brad | each client calcs the bullets seperately |
| 16:19.09 | MT|WarRock | In 2.1 though, theres no way to give yourself a flag |
| 16:19.17 | MT|WarRock | LIke the multi-flag cheat thing |
| 16:19.20 | MT|WarRock | Thats good |
| 16:28.42 | Gnurdux | master_tux, most 2.0 cheats can be detected |
| 16:28.45 | Gnurdux | but certain ones cant |
| 16:28.50 | Gnurdux | most of those are fixable |
| 16:29.06 | Gnurdux | the only real cheat i know of thats unfixable is what i told brad |
| 16:29.27 | Gnurdux | even that might be fixable, but i dunno how |
| 16:32.05 | TheRedBaron | whats the impact of the cheat? |
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| 16:32.19 | brad | big |
| 16:32.32 | TheRedBaron | is it a subtle cheat or obvious? |
| 16:32.37 | TheRedBaron | as in the effect of the cheat |
| 16:32.37 | brad | subtle |
| 16:32.42 | TheRedBaron | God mode cheat is rather obvious |
| 16:33.16 | Gnurdux | right |
| 16:33.33 | Gnurdux | its extremely subtle, virtually undetectable, and .... |
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| 16:33.49 | Gnurdux | the only way to fix it that i can think of is to make it a standard feature |
| 16:34.16 | anti-spam | Hi Grundex |
| 16:34.16 | Gnurdux | which would really change the game |
| 16:34.35 | Gnurdux | theres probably some way to do it by giving the client very little information |
| 16:34.35 | TheRedBaron | hrm... |
| 16:34.42 | Gnurdux | i can tell TheRedBaron |
| 16:35.18 | TheRedBaron | Gnurdux: tell what? |
| 16:35.28 | Gnurdux | TheRedBaron, what the cheat is |
| 16:38.18 | TheRedBaron | Gnurdux: the question is, can you tell if some one is using it? |
| 16:38.38 | Gnurdux | I, no. Someone, maybe. A server, no |
| 16:38.50 | Gnurdux | but the thing is its almost not a cheat |
| 16:38.57 | Gnurdux | so i doubt it |
| 16:39.05 | TheRedBaron | its a fuzzy line to be sure |
| 16:39.14 | Gnurdux | because it doesnt give the player any abnormal abilities |
| 16:39.23 | TheRedBaron | just "false skill" |
| 16:39.31 | Gnurdux | TheRedBaron: it wouldnt be a cheat if it was a standard client option |
| 16:39.36 | Gnurdux | that would just totally change the game |
| 16:39.46 | TheRedBaron | Gnurdux: i've asked for it as a standard client option |
| 16:39.54 | TheRedBaron | it was shot down |
| 16:39.57 | Gnurdux | at this point everyone probably knows what were talking about, so... |
| 16:39.59 | TheRedBaron | no pun intended |
| 16:40.03 | Gnurdux | lol |
| 16:40.13 | Gnurdux | the other option is to make server control the radar |
| 16:40.38 | Gnurdux | its a somewhat uncomfortable thing though |
| 16:40.50 | TheRedBaron | I don't like that though |
| 16:41.01 | TheRedBaron | because then lag will play havoc with what you see on your radar |
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| 17:43.20 | master_tux | JeffM2501: Out of curiosity, where are the lines in what cpp file in the source that allow a 'god mode'? |
| 17:44.30 | JeffM2501 | not going ot say here |
| 17:44.37 | master_tux | pm? |
| 17:44.44 | JeffM2501 | it's easy enough to find if you know the code |
| 17:44.50 | JeffM2501 | why do you want to know? |
| 17:44.57 | master_tux | I'm learning |
| 17:45.19 | JeffM2501 | how to cheat? |
| 17:45.37 | master_tux | I am not a professional at c++, and there are some things I like to pick apart in source code, that would further my educational development in this area. |
| 17:45.51 | JeffM2501 | just look at how the client handles geting shot |
| 17:45.54 | JeffM2501 | and you'll see it |
| 17:46.03 | JeffM2501 | it's one line |
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| 17:48.39 | master_tux | Jeff, can I pm you? |
| 17:49.18 | JeffM2501 | sure, why not |
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| 18:49.42 | delusional | hmmm.. bzflag's pastebin is being spammed with drug ads |
| 18:57.20 | ts | delusional: That is always the case :=) |
| 18:59.24 | delusional | first time i noticed |
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| 18:59.52 | delusional | ts, did you ever work on generating tristrips? |
| 19:00.04 | delusional | drawinfo |
| 19:00.19 | ts | Nope |
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| 19:01.54 | delusional | i have been, lately, i only ask because i searched the logs of this channel last night and you wer the only one to ever ask questions about tristrips, ts |
| 19:03.20 | ts | Umm, I asked about the drawinfo stuff but the only result I got is that the tool to create stripped lods is not published |
| 19:05.13 | delusional | i found a couple.. there's more if you look. this is my favorite so far, |
| 19:05.15 | delusional | http://www.cs.sunysb.edu/~stripe/ |
| 19:05.58 | delusional | it's converting the output of stripe into .bzw that is bedeviling me. |
| 19:07.44 | JeffM2501 | did trepan document the tristrip format? |
| 19:08.19 | delusional | yes, but it's barebones, not alot of info. |
| 19:11.22 | JeffM2501 | where is the docs? |
| 19:11.29 | delusional | I've been looking for a copy of the map mentioned in this thread.... the one with 8 million triangles, http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=5031&highlight=drawinfo |
| 19:12.09 | delusional | all I have is the map with the moving objects, and that has extra complications I dont need. |
| 19:12.18 | JeffM2501 | send it to me |
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| 19:12.42 | delusional | i just want a simple example of an object with tristrip info... |
| 19:13.08 | delusional | http://www.garrettsites.net/bzmaps/index.php?page=mapdetail&id=212 that's the moving object map. |
| 19:14.48 | delusional | I have simplified versions of that map if you want a stripped version |
| 19:14.52 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 19:15.04 | JeffM2501 | I want to find some pain pills |
| 19:16.05 | JeffM2501 | where did you get the code in your post? |
| 19:17.03 | delusional | in pastebin? i ran on obj. through stripe, then hand edited drawinfo into it. |
| 19:17.08 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 19:17.13 | JeffM2501 | in the fourms |
| 19:17.26 | JeffM2501 | do you know if that drawinfo format is correct? |
| 19:17.30 | delusional | mofo forum? |
| 19:17.34 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 19:17.48 | delusional | same way.. pastebin is second attempt |
| 19:17.56 | delusional | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/355763 |
| 19:18.04 | JeffM2501 | I can't see how a tristrip with one vert is valid |
| 19:18.39 | delusional | i thought so, i'm trying different options passed to stripe.. |
| 19:18.43 | JeffM2501 | ahh ok, it's just all indexed |
| 19:19.04 | JeffM2501 | what does stripe dump out? |
| 19:19.20 | delusional | an .objf file |
| 19:19.27 | JeffM2501 | give me an example |
| 19:20.08 | JeffM2501 | hmm,his system dosn't allow for sharp corners and shared verts |
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| 19:22.44 | delusional | it's an . objf format http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/index.php |
| 19:23.03 | delusional | designed to be read by stripe's viewer |
| 19:23.54 | JeffM2501 | they have any docs on that? |
| 19:24.11 | delusional | there is good documents at the stripe site |
| 19:24.44 | JeffM2501 | be simpler to just write a striper |
| 19:25.18 | JeffM2501 | not entirely sure what the "condinuation" means |
| 19:25.25 | JeffM2501 | why didn't they just slap it into the t line |
| 19:25.58 | delusional | is t equivelent to tris? |
| 19:26.05 | JeffM2501 | it's the start of a strip |
| 19:26.11 | JeffM2501 | then q continues it |
| 19:28.20 | delusional | the stripe manpagers are under the "papers" link |
| 19:28.38 | JeffM2501 | now have you asked trepan for his tools? |
| 19:28.58 | delusional | i havent seen trepan in a good while. |
| 19:29.09 | delusional | so, no |
| 19:29.24 | JeffM2501 | have you tried to send him a PM or an e-maiL? |
| 19:29.49 | delusional | no. |
| 19:29.56 | JeffM2501 | that may be the best place to start |
| 19:30.18 | delusional | suppose i should... sometimes with trepan i feel incapable of asking intelligent questions. |
| 19:30.54 | JeffM2501 | a simple " can we get your draw info tools, so we can work out how to make draw info maps" would be decent enough |
| 19:31.02 | JeffM2501 | it's a simple question, and dosn't ask him to do any real work |
| 19:32.36 | delusional | ok, I did talk to him once about it, and he said that it was completely possible to make objects from his drawinfo map, NOT be passable. |
| 19:32.52 | delusional | any clues on how i can d othat? |
| 19:33.15 | JeffM2501 | a couple |
| 19:33.25 | JeffM2501 | depends on what he meant by it |
| 19:33.35 | delusional | i have been able to modify his map into something i might be able to use. |
| 19:33.46 | JeffM2501 | static collison boundrys' could work |
| 19:34.16 | delusional | I add that in the map file? |
| 19:34.32 | JeffM2501 | be an invisbile object that is non passable that is around the stuff that moves |
| 19:34.44 | JeffM2501 | so that there is one fixed collision volume |
| 19:35.04 | delusional | i get your drift. |
| 19:35.24 | JeffM2501 | the problem with movers and collisons is we don't sycn them, and with rico, if they got out of sync the shot states would get off |
| 19:36.30 | delusional | i thought about syncing a worldweapon with it, but the drawinfo starts revolving the instant the server starts, and the worldweapon timer starts at first join |
| 19:36.42 | JeffM2501 | bingo |
| 19:36.51 | delusional | so they won't sync unless you get lucky |
| 19:36.56 | JeffM2501 | there is no mechanism to sync them on all clicnets |
| 19:37.02 | JeffM2501 | and it dosnt' comp for lag |
| 19:37.21 | JeffM2501 | it's not a generic animation system |
| 19:37.30 | JeffM2501 | it's a clever explotation of the material system :) |
| 19:38.56 | delusional | I can get them to sync... by timing the first join... but still you have to get lucky |
| 19:39.21 | brad | is it possible to have a cone pointing down? flipz doesn't seem to work |
| 19:39.32 | delusional | and everybody appears to see the same thing |
| 19:39.55 | JeffM2501 | how variant is the lag that all your people have? |
| 19:40.00 | JeffM2501 | I mean it would have to be exactly on |
| 19:40.19 | delusional | and would drift over time |
| 19:40.21 | JeffM2501 | I'd have to look at his system, but at some point he has to tell the clients where in the cycle they are |
| 19:40.30 | JeffM2501 | and I am not sure where he does that |
| 19:40.54 | JeffM2501 | when somone joins in the middle, and gets the map, where does he tell them where all the animations are? |
| 19:41.05 | JeffM2501 | or do they start from scratch? |
| 19:41.57 | JeffM2501 | or does he base it on the server clock that is used for the sky? |
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| 19:45.38 | delusional | I think i just need to know how to put the tristrips in the order bzflag wants them. right now I'm getting a grid extent of 3.4 googleplex. |
| 19:46.07 | JeffM2501 | it's indexes, so it dosn't care about the order |
| 19:46.12 | JeffM2501 | a strip is a strip |
| 19:46.16 | JeffM2501 | the extent is the bbox |
| 19:46.57 | JeffM2501 | contact trepan, see if you can get his tools |
| 19:47.08 | JeffM2501 | if you can, we can look into puting them into model tool and understanding them. |
| 19:48.00 | JeffM2501 | gota go |
| 19:52.36 | delusional | done. |
| 20:01.37 | delusional | apparently the angvel option adds very little (extra) complexity to creating drawinfo. |
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| 21:18.37 | *** join/#bzflag anti-spam (n=48405fbb@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:19.05 | anti-spam | Can someone help me with teppic's auto robot thing? |
| 21:20.34 | *** join/#bzflag Cortex (n=Cortex@81.5.206.160) |
| 21:22.17 | anti-spam | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=7630 |
| 21:22.41 | JeffM2501 | it's a patch |
| 21:22.46 | JeffM2501 | you'll have to apply it and compile |
| 21:22.54 | anti-spam | How? |
| 21:22.59 | JeffM2501 | but it's made for 2.0.6, so puting it on the current code may take some doing |
| 21:23.10 | JeffM2501 | using patch, if your OS has patch |
| 21:23.15 | JeffM2501 | then build with your compiler of choice |
| 21:23.35 | anti-spam | ok, i guess i wont try.......... |
| 21:23.41 | JeffM2501 | what OS are you on? |
| 21:23.56 | anti-spam | none |
| 21:24.05 | JeffM2501 | your computer dosn't have an operating system? |
| 21:24.08 | JeffM2501 | that's impresive |
| 21:24.14 | JeffM2501 | you just type in bits by hand? |
| 21:24.25 | anti-spam | Whispers: I have windows.......... |
| 21:24.25 | JeffM2501 | IRC must be painfull ;) |
| 21:24.34 | JeffM2501 | what version of windows |
| 21:24.45 | JeffM2501 | XP? |
| 21:24.53 | anti-spam | 2000 |
| 21:25.14 | JeffM2501 | dunno if VC .net 2005 ee will run under 2k |
| 21:25.24 | JeffM2501 | basicly you'd have to be able to build the game from source first |
| 21:25.39 | JeffM2501 | once you can do that then you make the changes to your local source that the patch specifies |
| 21:25.46 | JeffM2501 | and compile the changed version. |
| 21:26.22 | JeffM2501 | dosn't look to be a complex patch |
| 21:26.46 | anti-spam | It is too me....... |
| 21:26.48 | JeffM2501 | tho it does look like it needs python |
| 21:27.00 | anti-spam | I have python |
| 21:27.01 | JeffM2501 | yeah you'd have to know something about C++ to apply it |
| 21:27.09 | JeffM2501 | and to build bz |
| 21:27.46 | anti-spam | I think I'm gonna play bz |
| 21:28.29 | anti-spam | I've been trying too make this map for too long |
| 21:28.50 | JeffM2501 | have fun |
| 21:29.32 | anti-spam | I cant belize i coulve just built 1/4, copied the text, put it somewhere else, put a - infront of them and made the map! |
| 21:30.20 | anti-spam | Though it won't work all the time |
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| 21:30.39 | anti-spam | Like names......... |
| 21:30.56 | anti-spam | ok, bye |
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