IRC log for #bzflag on 20070406

`00:02.02`	`*** join/#bzflag The_Vaxorcist (n=phillip@209-148-123-129.arc16.nas2.200p.dial.sonic.net)`
`00:13.08`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`What kind of plans/wishs/ideas are there for the "find server" dialog?`
`00:14.19`	`brlcad`	`The_Vaxorcist: all sorts and varied`
`00:14.31`	`brlcad`	`some want it simple, some want it detailed, some want somewhere in between`
`00:14.36`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`figured that`
`00:14.44`	`brlcad`	`the general consensus is probably somewhere in between`
`00:14.55`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`any specifics?`
`00:15.35`	`brlcad`	`minimally sorting on things like ping and/or physical region, basic player stats, server name .. and perhaps a more detailed description page on-demand`
`00:15.47`	`brlcad`	`that could show all available data`
`00:16.55`	`brlcad`	`The_Vaxorcist: there are more ideas on http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code#Enhanced_server_listing`
`00:17.14`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`thanks`
`00:18.36`	`brlcad`	`how easy it is to use, various sort/navigation/grouping options would be desirable, as well as just a better overall appearance/design`
`00:20.48`	`*** join/#bzflag Sir_Pants (n=Sir_Pant@67-42-80-2.tukw.qwest.net)`
`00:21.51`	`The_Vaxorcist`	`I figure that I may have to rework it a little to add pings - better if I kill two birds with one stone`
`00:30.53`	`*** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n)`
`00:35.32`	`CBG`	`uh`
`00:35.42`	`SportChick`	`heh`
`00:35.47`	`CBG`	`that was messed up`
`00:36.07`	`CBG`	`... /msg -> /me messages`
`00:36.08`	`CBG`	`:/`
`00:36.31`	`SportChick`	`hehe`
`00:38.50`	`*** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org)`
`00:38.51`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
`00:39.20`	`*** join/#bzflag rob1n_ (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n)`
`00:40.49`	`brlcad`	`and if they ever really got rid of a vax`
`00:41.30`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`00:41.31`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`00:46.10`	`spldart`	`o_O`
`00:48.40`	`spldart`	`O_o`
`00:48.49`	`Winny`	`o_0`
`00:49.10`	`spldart`	`\o_o`
`00:49.37`	`Winny`	`()___()`
`00:50.40`	`a_meteorite`	`... wtf?`
`00:50.52`	`Winny`	`Bored`
`00:51.10`	`Winny`	`Spldart was my closest victim`
`00:52.26`	`spldart`	`I feel.... 'Victimized'? o_O`
`00:52.42`	`Winny`	`Yes you do`
`00:52.52`	`JeffM2501`	`would you like to file a complaint?`
`00:52.54`	`spldart`	`*/join a server`
`00:53.00`	`spldart`	`save teh spam`
`01:15.26`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13984 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx: ws`
`01:17.12`	`JeffM2501`	`the server should be unbroken now`
`01:18.14`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13985 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx: more ws`
`01:18.44`	`rob1n`	`JeffM2501, how do you like svn versus cvs?`
`01:19.50`	`JeffM2501`	`it's faster`
`01:20.14`	`*** join/#bzflag Hannibal (n=Hannibal@pool-71-113-209-249.herntx.dsl-w.verizon.net)`
`01:22.27`	`rob1n`	`you guys have a weird repo setup`
`01:22.39`	`rob1n`	`usually you have project folders in the root, and tags/branches/trunk in each project folder`
`01:22.48`	`*** join/#bzflag cosmos (n=cosmos@borrego.hepcat.org)`
`01:23.03`	`cosmos`	`just updated to 2.0.9 and now its kicking players with "tank too large a movement update"`
`01:24.05`	`JeffM2501`	`how old of a 2.0.9?`
`01:31.11`	`*** join/#bzflag ep (n=mdr@about/essy/guynextdoor/ep)`
`01:31.16`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13986 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: ws`
`01:40.28`	`*** part/#bzflag cosmos (n=cosmos@borrego.hepcat.org)`
`01:42.15`	`*** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n)`
`02:02.44`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13987 10/trunk/bzflag/ (6 files in 3 dirs):`
`02:02.44`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: whitespace ( yeah by ME, who knew )`
`02:02.44`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: track if a connection has sent data or not to help with cleanups`
`02:02.44`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: add a smart timeout to those that don't send data in a reasonable time ( bzdb var can set the time ).`
`02:02.45`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: add a hook for a "last chance" handler for protocols that do server first.`
`02:04.22`	`JeffM2501`	`take a look`
`02:04.23`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13988 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx: when the API disconnects a non player connection use the delete me flag, don't push it.`
`02:04.26`	`JeffM2501`	`tell me if I got it right`
`02:04.30`	`brlcad`	`I did :)`
`02:04.34`	`JeffM2501`	`is it ok?`
`02:04.49`	`JeffM2501`	`DTRemenak is making a VC plugin for me at work :)`
`02:05.00`	`JeffM2501`	`it'll read the emacs crap and set per window`
`02:05.04`	`DTRemenak`	`yup...ran into a lil' snag`
`02:05.12`	`DTRemenak`	`actually it reads the vi line, that was easier`
`02:05.17`	`JeffM2501`	`hah`
`02:05.18`	`brlcad`	`side from the rebrace infection that you're trying to spread.. it's certainly better :)`
`02:05.33`	`JeffM2501`	`hey, it's a compromise :)`
`02:05.41`	`JeffM2501`	`I make more mistakes with the otherway`
`02:05.44`	`DTRemenak`	`apparently microsoft considers the TextDocument indent properties "internal use only" and throws an exception when you try to set them`
`02:05.56`	`JeffM2501`	`the bastards`
`02:06.02`	`brlcad`	`DTRemenak: oh, nifty -- can I have?`
`02:06.09`	`brlcad`	`open source that puppy`
`02:06.14`	`DTRemenak`	`need to figure out how to set it globally, and just do it per-document...as long as you aren't using split windows it should work`
`02:06.24`	`DTRemenak`	`brlcad: sure`
`02:06.31`	`JeffM2501`	`can you do it per language?`
`02:06.41`	`DTRemenak`	`I can sniff the language of the document`
`02:07.03`	`Daveman`	`Evening, gentlemen.`
`02:07.17`	`JeffM2501`	`I mean do they let you set it per lang or is that internal only?`
`02:07.20`	`brlcad`	`need to find the emacs style var setting to maintain bsd indentation on braces`
`02:07.32`	`DTRemenak`	`I think I can set it per language, but I'm not sure`
`02:07.52`	`JeffM2501`	`the ui has per language`
`02:07.53`	`DTRemenak`	`all I know is that I can't do it from an inherited textdocument. I may be able to do it from the editordocument`
`02:08.55`	`DTRemenak`	`but they were locking up, so I had to leave :)`
`02:09.07`	`JeffM2501`	`ahhh`
`02:09.15`	`JeffM2501`	`well I do think you for puting the time into it`
`02:09.22`	`JeffM2501`	`I set my main machine to 2 8`
`02:09.27`	`JeffM2501`	`but man is 2 REALY small`
`02:09.35`	`JeffM2501`	`how bout 3? :)`
`02:09.38`	`JeffM2501`	`or 4 :)`
`02:10.27`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`02:11.09`	`DTRemenak`	`3 is not a divisor of 8 :)`
`02:11.18`	`brlcad`	`yeah, 3 would suck`
`02:11.35`	`brlcad`	`otherwise, I don't really care between 2 and 4`
`02:11.40`	`brlcad`	`it's a total meh`
`02:11.44`	`JeffM2501`	`4 looks right to me`
`02:11.46`	`JeffM2501`	`visualy`
`02:11.47`	`brlcad`	`you get used to either really fast`
`02:11.53`	`blast007`	`we could do 3/9`
`02:12.02`	`brlcad`	`i mean how are you just now noticing? :)`
`02:12.05`	`brlcad`	`it's always been 2 :)`
`02:12.15`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah and it's looked like ass`
`02:12.24`	`JeffM2501`	`so I chocked it up to my bad setings`
`02:12.30`	`JeffM2501`	`now I have my setings right`
`02:12.38`	`brlcad`	`heh, ah, so it's just that time of the year to ws rant then..`
`02:12.41`	`JeffM2501`	`and it's now aligned small crap`
`02:12.58`	`JeffM2501`	`naw, I did a big commit that got a WS comment from germany ;)`
`02:13.15`	`brlcad`	`you woke up the Chestal`
`02:13.21`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`02:14.26`	`JeffM2501`	`it is funny how stuff like that is what people get all up in arms over`
`02:14.43`	`JeffM2501`	`remember from the video by the subversion devs, there only vote was on tabs :)`
`02:15.30`	`brlcad`	`you'd probably just nix one core guy.. :)`
`02:15.40`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`02:16.00`	`DTRemenak`	`tabs are 8 spaces`
`02:16.08`	`JeffM2501`	`ok 4/8`
`02:16.10`	`brlcad`	`i don't think any amount of cash would get me to agree on /4`
`02:16.12`	`JeffM2501`	`I can do 4/8`
`02:16.20`	`DTRemenak`	`I don't really care about indent levels, but tabs are EIGHT FREAKIN' SPACES :)`
`02:16.27`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`02:16.33`	`JeffM2501`	`indent is what I care about`
`02:16.46`	`JeffM2501`	`indent and {`
`02:16.54`	`JeffM2501`	`that's what my eye picks up on`
`02:17.03`	`spldart`	`heh`
`02:17.05`	`brlcad`	`maybe ask tupy and er .. tim.. about 4`
`02:17.08`	`JeffM2501`	`tho shrinkydink +- helps a lot`
`02:17.36`	`brlcad`	`if either of them was for it, i'd go for 4/8`
`02:17.48`	`brlcad`	`still not bsd though :)`
`02:18.12`	`JeffM2501`	`if I re-write enough code it'll all just be bsd anyway ;)`
`02:19.05`	`spldart`	`That sounds quotable`
`02:19.23`	`brlcad`	`you do know I have a script that will set it all to [insert-style-here] consistently and automatically .. I've just not bothered to run it`
`02:19.51`	`brlcad`	`where insert-style-here obeys the footer ;)`
`02:20.02`	`DTRemenak`	`scripts like that tend to screw up intentional style breakage`
`02:20.13`	`JeffM2501`	`if danny boy can get the plugin to work I'll try 2/8`
`02:20.23`	`DTRemenak`	`like breaking and aligning long logic statements on the logic symbols`
`02:20.37`	`brlcad`	`DTRemenak: this actually only does indentation and braces`
`02:20.49`	`brlcad`	`uses emacs directly, so it obeys`
`02:21.01`	`DTRemenak`	`brlcad: and it doesn't re-indent those?`
`02:21.12`	`brlcad`	`re-indent what?`
`02:22.07`	`DTRemenak`	`http://pastebin.ca/426329`
`02:22.18`	`brlcad`	`it doesn't like jeff's current bsd braceage because it's set to a gnu style by default`
`02:22.42`	`Daveman`	`eww, emacs :[`
`02:22.54`	`DTRemenak`	`eww, gnu style`
`02:23.05`	`brlcad`	`Daveman: just dropped down about 20% ;)`
`02:23.20`	`DTRemenak`	`vi ftw!`
`02:23.25`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13989 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/httpTest/httpTest.cpp: only grab the connection if it's a HTTP get.`
`02:23.26`	`brlcad`	`DTRemenak: yeah, suckage default`
`02:23.50`	`Daveman`	`brlcad: you have no choice to survive make your editor!`
`02:24.12`	`DTRemenak`	`that sentence so does not compute`
`02:24.35`	`blast007`	`DTRemenak: all your base are belong to us`
`02:24.48`	`Daveman`	`agreed.`
`02:25.42`	`JeffM2501`	`that is why he said that, AYB dosn't make sense`
`02:25.42`	`DTRemenak`	`better to return a pointer to yourself :)`
`02:27.07`	`brlcad`	`DTRemenak: for that example, it could also be a flawed premise to begin with .. if you're going to break them up, there's something to not be misleading by grouping arbitrarily like that`
`02:27.11`	`Daveman`	`Nah, then I'd still be around.`
`02:27.12`	`brlcad`	`something like http://pastebin.ca/426331`
`02:27.36`	`JeffM2501`	`IT BURNS US!!!`
`02:27.38`	`DTRemenak`	`brlcad: yeah, I know`
`02:27.59`	`DTRemenak`	`I generally only do that when everything's too long to fit on one line anyway`
`02:28.09`	`DTRemenak`	`but having it reindented would suck greatly`
`02:28.16`	`JeffM2501`	`I just go buy a wider display`
`02:28.52`	`DTRemenak`	`80 columns dude :P`
`02:29.28`	`JeffM2501`	`scroll bar dude :)`
`02:29.37`	`brlcad`	`ugh, the svn commit hook really needs to ignore whitespace`
`02:29.53`	`JeffM2501`	`everyone just hate me for my display :(`
`02:29.57`	`brlcad`	`where's the diff -u -b -B love`
`02:31.06`	`*** join/#bzflag short_circuit (n=short_ci@cpe-24-28-107-184.houston.res.rr.com)`
`02:31.49`	`AAA_awright`	`Someone tell me how this plugin works without being ruined by the "BZFS0026" text sent on the connection`
`02:31.56`	`AAA_awright`	`http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/bzflag/trunk/bzflag/plugins/httpTest/`
`02:32.01`	`DTRemenak`	`there is no such text`
`02:32.05`	`DTRemenak`	`it's all your imagination`
`02:32.10`	`AAA_awright`	`...`
`02:32.12`	`DTRemenak`	`see that /trunk/ part ;)`
`02:32.18`	`Daveman`	`heehee`
`02:32.27`	`DTRemenak`	`this is not 2.0`
`02:33.11`	`DTRemenak`	`whoa...lotro installs like 10 exes...which one am I supposed to start the game with?`
`02:33.21`	`JeffM2501`	`AAA_awright, 2.1.x dosn't send that out first`
`02:33.25`	`blast007`	`AAA_awright: 2.1 doesn't send that now, until it gets "BZFLAG\r\n\r\n"`
`02:33.32`	`AAA_awright`	`...`
`02:33.38`	`AAA_awright`	`Why?`
`02:33.49`	`blast007`	`so we can share the port for HTTP stuff, for example`
`02:33.51`	`DTRemenak`	`so that that kind of plugin works`
`02:33.53`	`AAA_awright`	`And moreso, why the carrage return?`
`02:34.07`	`JeffM2501`	`so that if you connect to a web server it'll bail faster`
`02:34.13`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`02:34.20`	`JeffM2501`	`per fearless`
`02:35.16`	`blast007`	`we should embed Gecko into bzflag and make it a browser now`
`02:35.22`	`AAA_awright`	`So now we cannot determine the protocol version by conecting anymore?`
`02:35.36`	`blast007`	`AAA_awright: no, you can, just send "BZFLAG\r\n\r\n"`
`02:35.36`	`JeffM2501`	`AAA_awright, sure you can, just send the conect string first`
`02:35.42`	`JeffM2501`	`then it'll work like normal`
`02:35.46`	`blast007`	`but if you send that to 2.0.x, it'll kick you off :)`
`02:35.49`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`02:36.08`	`AAA_awright`	`... How do you tell the version _without_ getting kicked off?`
`02:36.20`	`AAA_awright`	`(that's what I meant anyways)`
`02:36.24`	`JeffM2501`	`you got your list of servers from the listserver right?`
`02:36.30`	`JeffM2501`	`and your scanning them right?`
`02:36.59`	`AAA_awright`	`I guess I like the idea, but... what happens when an old client connects now?`
`02:37.14`	`blast007`	`why would an old client connect to a new server?`
`02:37.22`	`JeffM2501`	`it times out in 6 seconds`
`02:37.37`	`blast007`	`yeah`
`02:37.39`	`brlcad`	`other than to make it look like http`
`02:37.58`	`JeffM2501`	`I told you, it shut him up`
`02:38.01`	`JeffM2501`	`;)`
`02:38.12`	`blast007`	`if you connect to google.com on port 80, you should have to wait for it to time out ;)`
`02:38.17`	`JeffM2501`	`AAA_awright, how are you scaning unknown servers if they are not from the list?`
`02:38.38`	`AAA_awright`	`ummm`
`02:38.39`	`brlcad`	`probably wouldn't notice for months`
`02:38.46`	`JeffM2501`	`your using the list right?`
`02:38.51`	`blast007`	`JeffM2501: the main issue is that if, again, someone has a ~bzfquery style command, it won't work quite right anymore`
`02:38.52`	`AAA_awright`	`Yah`
`02:39.00`	`blast007`	`the list has the version string`
`02:39.01`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah they have to use the right one`
`02:39.05`	`blast007`	`well, proto #`
`02:39.21`	`AAA_awright`	`but... say someone posts a server name on the forums/IRC (which happens lots), and it times out, instead of displaying a helpful "Your client is too old" etc...`
`02:39.32`	`JeffM2501`	`or wait a bit, then try sending it out`
`02:39.41`	`*** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=Constitu@gateway.pct.civiltec.com)`
`02:39.47`	`brlcad`	`(unprompted)`
`02:39.56`	`AAA_awright`	`Again, I guess it is helpful, but now we are breaking _syntax_, not just protocol...`
`02:40.07`	`JeffM2501`	`when I connected a browser to an old client it just sent me out an octet steam`
`02:40.17`	`JeffM2501`	`AAA_awright, the syntax is the protocoll`
`02:40.19`	`JeffM2501`	`you'll live`
`02:40.51`	`JeffM2501`	`then you go tell Tim that his idea of managing a server via HTTP on the same port is stupid`
`02:40.56`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`02:41.22`	`blast007`	`we could start a poll on the forum!`
`02:41.24`	`AAA_awright`	`You're right, I mean this is a step up from creating a new packet type. Don't get me wrong, I -need- some way to connect to a server without joining as a player...`
`02:41.44`	`JeffM2501`	`you can, you just have to be smarter about it`
`02:42.06`	`JeffM2501`	`and you may have to try twice`
`02:42.13`	`JeffM2501`	`if one method dosn't work, try the other`
`02:42.40`	`AAA_awright`	`I guess... It is just a bit odd...`
`02:42.47`	`blast007`	`JeffM2501: I'd prefer that didn't happen....`
`02:43.01`	`blast007`	`don't need my logs to fill up any faster with bogus messages`
`02:43.04`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm open to any other ideas`
`02:43.14`	`JeffM2501`	`remember this dosn't log as a player slot`
`02:43.21`	`JeffM2501`	`so you don't see it`
`02:43.26`	`blast007`	`what doesn't?`
`02:43.27`	`JeffM2501`	`not untill they send out the string`
`02:43.34`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh the old servers would`
`02:43.34`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`02:43.46`	`AAA_awright`	`I didn't think you got a slot number until you sent MsgEnter`
`02:44.01`	`JeffM2501`	`you get a player record and ID on accept`
`02:44.01`	`blast007`	`you do`
`02:44.09`	`blast007`	`Player [1] sent huge packet length (len=16986), possible attack`
`02:44.09`	`blast007`	`Player [1] removed at 2007-04-05 20:40:57: large packet recvd`
`02:44.10`	`AAA_awright`	`That is how you could send anonymous messages...`
`02:44.24`	`blast007`	`(when I send "BZFLAG") ;)`
`02:44.26`	`JeffM2501`	`the net handler is part of the player class in old versions`
`02:44.36`	`DTRemenak`	`blast007: forgot a null terminator? :)`
`02:44.45`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah I'd try the old method first, wait a bit, if you don't get it, then send.`
`02:44.53`	`DTRemenak`	`ah, or the BZ`
`02:44.55`	`JeffM2501`	`harder to do`
`02:45.01`	`DTRemenak`	`silly msglen`
`02:45.03`	`blast007`	`it used "BZ" as the length`
`02:45.08`	`blast007`	`or something like that`
`02:45.10`	`blast007`	`maybe just B`
`02:45.13`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah it would`
`02:45.32`	`DTRemenak`	`so don't send it`
`02:45.32`	`JeffM2501`	`just wait`
`02:45.33`	`blast007`	`waiting is an issue`
`02:45.34`	`DTRemenak`	`if you get a response without sending it, it's an old server`
`02:45.42`	`DTRemenak`	`otherwise wait a second and a half, then send it`
`02:45.56`	`DTRemenak`	`why is it an issue?`
`02:46.07`	`blast007`	`there are a lot of servers, so a script that runs every 5 minutes has 300 seconds to scan around 300 servers`
`02:46.10`	`AAA_awright`	`so in pseudo code: connect();if(!read(7)){send("BZFLAG\n\n");read(7);}version=read_buffer`
`02:46.10`	`blast007`	`~bzflist`
`02:46.45`	`blast007`	`AAA_awright: pretty much`
`02:46.47`	`JeffM2501`	`blast007 if your scaning, you are reading form the server list`
`02:46.50`	`JeffM2501`	`so you KNOW the proto`
`02:46.56`	`blast007`	`hrm, guess so`
`02:46.58`	`blast007`	`pwned myself`
`02:46.59`	`JeffM2501`	`the only case that needs the wiat is the one off`
`02:47.01`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`02:47.10`	`JeffM2501`	`so that can take longer`
`02:47.40`	`JeffM2501`	`well http is busted :)`
`02:47.45`	`JeffM2501`	`gotta fix that one`
`02:48.12`	`blast007`	`let me know when it works, so I can run my home page from bzfs ;)`
`02:48.32`	`AAA_awright`	`:)`
`02:48.39`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13990 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/bzfsAPI.h src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx): dont' close sockets twice`
`02:48.43`	`blast007`	`nah, I'd tie in PHP`
`02:48.47`	`JeffM2501`	`oh I'm not making a full htpp server`
`02:48.56`	`JeffM2501`	`it responds to get with "I AM DATA"`
`02:48.58`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`02:49.02`	`blast007`	`lol`
`02:49.03`	`JeffM2501`	`no mater what you request`
`02:49.08`	`DTRemenak`	`don't forget to send the mime type`
`02:49.17`	`JeffM2501`	`binary for EVERYONE`
`02:49.52`	`short_circuit`	`:-)`
`02:50.45`	`AAA_awright`	`Would it break protocol (again I mean) to send the version if nothing is received in 1-2 seconds?`
`02:51.37`	`JeffM2501`	`why? for a couple old scripts?`
`02:51.43`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban)`
`02:51.45`	`JeffM2501`	`what big script do you have that will be busted?`
`02:52.20`	`AAA_awright`	`Nothing`
`02:52.48`	`JeffM2501`	`then what is the hubbub about?`
`02:53.33`	`AAA_awright`	`a_meteorite says plugins can't load other plugins`
`02:53.38`	`JeffM2501`	`they can't`
`02:53.53`	`JeffM2501`	`that is not how they are suposed to work`
`02:53.59`	`DTRemenak`	`a plugin could load its own plugin if it wanted to`
`02:54.04`	`JeffM2501`	`manualy`
`02:54.09`	`AAA_awright`	`... someone said they could. Though now that it is mentioned, I don't remember seeing that in the API...`
`02:54.20`	`JeffM2501`	`a plugin can install a plugin type handler`
`02:54.27`	`JeffM2501`	`then be called when its loaded`
`02:54.33`	`JeffM2501`	`but that's for language plugins`
`02:54.36`	`JeffM2501`	`like python`
`02:54.49`	`JeffM2501`	`a plugin DLL can not tell bzfs to load another dll`
`02:55.20`	`DTRemenak`	`could load the other dll itself though`
`02:55.30`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah it oculd`
`02:55.30`	`DTRemenak`	`act as a transparent forwarder`
`02:55.36`	`JeffM2501`	`but it can't tell bzfs to load one`
`02:55.47`	`DTRemenak`	`could even do injection, that'd be cool`
`02:55.48`	`JeffM2501`	`it can do whatever it wants with DLLs in it's own module :)`
`02:55.52`	`JeffM2501`	`why?`
`02:55.55`	`JeffM2501`	`well ok`
`02:55.57`	`JeffM2501`	`I lie`
`02:55.59`	`JeffM2501`	`there is ONE eay`
`02:56.05`	`JeffM2501`	`Server side players baby :)`
`02:56.05`	`AAA_awright`	`Hmm. I _was_ able to load and list plugins with the /msg before MsgEnter hole...`
`02:56.11`	`AAA_awright`	`Like that`
`02:56.27`	`AAA_awright`	`er... MsgMessage before MsgJoin`
`02:56.27`	`JeffM2501`	`just do a real login`
`02:56.36`	`JeffM2501`	`join,it's not that hard :)`
`02:56.37`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, could do an ssp`
`02:56.46`	`DTRemenak`	`cron-style :)`
`02:56.48`	`AAA_awright`	`That is what I am doing now... except it dosn't work on a full server`
`02:56.48`	`JeffM2501`	`an ssp could call any slash command`
`02:56.49`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`02:56.51`	`a_meteorite`	`and if the team is full, then your bot is screwed`
`02:57.03`	`a_meteorite`	`it could be a very important bot, for remote administration`
`02:57.09`	`JeffM2501`	`then install a plugin to handle the request via another protocoll`
`02:57.20`	`JeffM2501`	`non player connectiosn don't take player slots`
`02:57.21`	`a_meteorite`	`been thinking about the alternatives, including that`
`02:57.24`	`AAA_awright`	`Except for the loading plugins part`
`02:57.40`	`a_meteorite`	`well, you could start a SSP... but that feels hacky`
`02:57.42`	`JeffM2501`	`add an API to have your plugin list plugins`
`02:57.53`	`JeffM2501`	`that should be butt simple`
`02:58.05`	`a_meteorite`	`*hackish`
`02:58.19`	`JeffM2501`	`actualy any admin plugin would need it`
`02:58.30`	`Daveman`	`cool`
`02:58.32`	`DTRemenak`	`yeah, we'd need something like that anyway`
`02:58.58`	`DTRemenak`	`probably would need load/unload plugin also for management stuff`
`02:59.20`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`02:59.30`	`JeffM2501`	`I'd not be adverse to adding it`
`02:59.33`	`JeffM2501`	`as a real API`
`02:59.57`	`JeffM2501`	`tho unloading yourself?`
`03:00.09`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe I want to cache unloads :)`
`03:00.10`	`DTRemenak`	`could add a check for that`
`03:00.24`	`JeffM2501`	`do all unloads at the end of the loop`
`03:00.27`	`DTRemenak`	`on unload if unloadee = unloader return`
`03:00.53`	`DTRemenak`	`I think the legit use cases for that are sufficiently minimal that just disallowing it would be fine`
`03:01.04`	`JeffM2501`	`not hard to cache it`
`03:09.06`	`JeffM2501`	`and I'm not sure if I know who the caller is ;)`
`03:09.35`	`JeffM2501`	`maybe just tell them "don't do that' :)`
`03:09.47`	`DTRemenak`	`how can you not know who the caller is?`
`03:10.09`	`DTRemenak`	`hmm, on second thought, that does seem pretty likely`
`03:10.44`	`JeffM2501`	`it's just a funciton call`
`03:10.53`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't know the module handle who did it`
`03:11.23`	`JeffM2501`	`I mean if it crashes, it's there own dumb fault`
`03:11.32`	`DTRemenak`	`heh`
`03:11.35`	`JeffM2501`	`we don't prevent them from dividing by 0`
`03:11.56`	`JeffM2501`	`this ain't no post engine`
`03:12.14`	`DTRemenak`	`suppose we could protect against that`
`03:12.35`	`DTRemenak`	`toss some exception handling around events`
`03:13.03`	`DTRemenak`	`force a plugin unload instead of a server crash`
`03:13.12`	`DTRemenak`	`log the exception out`
`03:14.48`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13991 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/bzfsAPI.h src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx): API functions to list, load, and unload plug-ins. for the love of the gods don't unload yourself.`
`03:14.53`	`JeffM2501`	`heck a plugin may not evn know i's own path ;)`
`03:17.03`	`*** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001)`
`03:17.05`	`*** join/#bzflag the_j0k3r (n=pizza_ma@124.189.13.6)`
`03:17.20`	`the_j0k3r`	`any gu league admins here?`
`03:19.05`	`*** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org)`
`03:19.06`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
`03:19.14`	`the_j0k3r`	`any gu league admins here?`
`03:20.12`	`lodxcol`	`the_j0k3r: try joining #guleague`
`03:22.03`	`the_j0k3r`	`i am, no one replied :P`
`03:26.41`	`*** part/#bzflag the_j0k3r (n=pizza_ma@124.189.13.6)`
`03:37.54`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13992 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: when killing peer connections, use the real ID for them, not the index into the death list, this prevents crashes.`
`03:38.50`	`JeffM2501`	`is there a way to telnet to a specific port?`
`03:44.53`	`a_meteorite`	`telnet host port`
`03:51.20`	`*** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QuantumB@doc-72-47-46-111.leesville.la.cebridge.net)`
`03:52.01`	`purple_cow`	`why are you using telnet?`
`03:52.10`	`purple_cow`	`netcat is a lot more appropriate for almost anything`
`03:56.01`	`JeffM2501`	`simple test`
`03:56.31`	`JeffM2501`	`does windows have netcat?`
`03:57.06`	`purple_cow`	`I'm sure there's a windows version`
`03:57.32`	`JeffM2501`	`installed by default?`
`03:59.01`	`Daveman`	`hey purple cow`
`03:59.15`	`purple_cow`	`JeffM2501: probably not`
`03:59.44`	`SportChick`	`~sushi purple_cow`
`03:59.55`	`ibot`	`ACTION fishes madly all day long & brings the very best back, filets it carefully and serves purple_cow the best, freshest sushi ever`
`04:05.35`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13993 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: scan for idle connections in the correct place ( when we don't have data ) so that we can call there events.`
`04:05.51`	`JeffM2501`	`well telnet worked 1/2 way :)`
`04:06.15`	`JeffM2501`	`coudn't get my client to send data after the first connect`
`04:08.17`	`JeffM2501`	`that should get both client and server initiated conections on the main port`
`04:08.22`	`JeffM2501`	`now for the more logical, another port`
`04:19.01`	`*** join/#bzflag randomparticle (n=randompa@88-104-242-227.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
`04:24.44`	`*** join/#bzflag codergeek42 (n=peter@fedora/codergeek42)`
`04:36.04`	`TimRiker`	`"another port" ?`
`04:37.35`	`JeffM2501`	`port other then the main game port`
`04:37.39`	`a_meteorite`	`allow plugins to bind to another port to receive non-player connections`
`04:39.40`	`*** part/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.109.176.242)`
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`05:44.57`	`*** join/#bzflag RatOmeter__ (n=chatzill@139.78.95.188)`
`06:05.12`	`TimRiker`	`hmm. I'd much rather they use the one port to make connections easier to manage. /me needs to get some time to work on the code instead of whining. sorry.`
`06:11.41`	`*** join/#bzflag Sir_Pants (n=Sir_Pant@67-42-80-2.tukw.qwest.net)`
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`09:53.54`	*** join/#bzflag CBG` (n=CBG@cpc4-stme1-0-0-cust103.cdif.cable.ntl.com)
`10:12.05`	`*** join/#bzflag iCBG (n=CBG@about/essy/fan/CBG)`
`10:26.31`	`*** join/#bzflag \|\|Wolverine\|\| (n=qwerty@host107-4-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
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`11:28.09`	`strayer`	`blast007 ... are you awake and around? :)`
`11:33.02`	`Manu`	`strayer: the response is in the silence ;)`
`11:34.14`	`strayer`	`hehe...yes, but it's not absolutely clear...on the one hand he doesn't like and ignore me or he's really not around ^^`
`11:34.46`	`strayer`	`I'd prefer option #2 :)`
`11:35.36`	`Manu`	`yes, probably he is sleeping`
`11:37.29`	`strayer`	`uh...sleeping...some kind of privilege for ppl with enough time`
`11:38.34`	`Manu`	`~wake blast007`
`11:38.35`	`ibot`	`ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on blast007 and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!"`
`11:38.35`	`Manu`	`k`
`11:40.29`	`strayer`	`ibot is more a wife than a mother... :o)`
`11:40.40`	`Manu`	`hehe`
`11:45.26`	`Manu`	`strayer: is a mother in law ;)`
`11:46.31`	`strayer`	`g...which isn't any better...eventually even worse (a wife wouldn't take too much water because she is sleeping in the same bed)`
`11:47.39`	`strayer`	`well...I'll try again a little later..time for a belated lunch now`
`11:47.42`	`strayer`	`cu Manu :o)`
`11:49.00`	`Manu`	`cu strayer :)`
`12:13.41`	`*** join/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.109.176.242)`
`12:13.50`	`*** part/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.109.176.242)`
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`13:34.25`	`RatOmeter__`	`~bzfquery okstatecams.dyndns.org:5155`
`13:40.27`	`*** join/#bzflag me1 (n=mkumykov@pool-71-184-81-209.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)`
`13:46.15`	`RatOmeter__`	`~bzfquery okstatecams.dyndns.org:5155`
`13:46.48`	`RatOmeter__`	`anyone care to help me test the Missile War map at okstatecams.dyndns.org:5155 ?`
`13:49.24`	`me1`	`can't spawn`
`13:57.22`	`*** join/#bzflag spldart (n=troublem@cpe-24-28-107-184.houston.res.rr.com)`
`13:58.27`	`*** join/#bzflag ep (n=mdr@about/essy/guynextdoor/ep)`
`14:04.25`	`RatOmeter__`	`are you "Legend_13"?`
`14:04.38`	`me1`	`me?`
`14:04.47`	`RatOmeter__`	`oh, I had something wrong in the config earlier`
`14:04.54`	`RatOmeter__`	`I couldn't spawn either ;)`
`14:05.03`	`RatOmeter__`	`Might have it fixed now`
`14:05.08`	`me1`	`ok`
`14:05.12`	`me1`	`ps: i'm me1 ;)`
`14:05.19`	`RatOmeter__`	`of course :)`
`14:05.32`	`RatOmeter__`	`nope, still looks bad I guess`
`14:05.35`	`me1`	`ya`
`14:05.39`	`RatOmeter__`	`Hmmm`
`14:05.50`	`me1`	`can't sapwn, and when i walk i get disconnected`
`14:06.43`	`RatOmeter`	`I'll do some testing on my own I guess, thanks`
`14:07.27`	`*** join/#bzflag Archangel_13 (n=Daemonin@64-110-244-249.regn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca)`
`14:09.50`	`*** join/#bzflag Pommes (n=Pommes@about/essy/frenchy/Pommes)`
`14:09.51`	`*** join/#bzflag catay (n=smertens@84.16.252.233) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
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`14:36.52`	`*** part/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.109.176.242)`
`14:37.53`	`RatOmeter`	`me1, even though I've added bzfs as an exception in windows firewall, I was getting this when you tried to connect:`
`14:37.58`	`RatOmeter`	`2007-04-06 08:48:43 OPEN-INBOUND TCP 71.184.81.209 139.78.95.188 47218 5155 - - - - - - - - -`
`14:38.00`	`RatOmeter`	`2007-04-06 08:48:43 DROP UDP 139.78.95.200 139.78.95.255 138 138 229 - - - - - - - RECEIVE`
`14:38.15`	`RatOmeter`	`those packets were dropped`
`14:38.40`	`RatOmeter`	`bah, the second line doesn't pertain to you`
`14:41.05`	`RatOmeter`	`Grrr, whatever the problem is, it's with my conf or bzw files. running a different map, I have no problems`
`14:50.16`	`*** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n)`
`14:52.06`	`*** join/#bzflag eTangenT (n=tangent@71-212-169-108.hlrn.qwest.net)`
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`15:29.33`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ`
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`15:40.46`	`Winny`	`existed? :p`
`15:42.19`	`SportChick`	`brlcad: oh, I'm sure you've done something`
`15:43.30`	`Daveman`	`Morning brlcad`
`15:45.58`	`brlcad`	`Winny: probably`
`15:46.23`	`brlcad`	`SportChick: I did, I froze my arms and legs off this morning`
`15:46.40`	`SportChick`	`brlcad: riding or rowing?`
`15:46.44`	`brlcad`	`it was around 0C with about a 25 mph wind out on the water .. we shouldn't have gone out`
`15:47.28`	`Pommes`	`brlcad: kayaking or rowing?`
`15:47.30`	`brlcad`	`one of my top 3 worst rows ever in a quad at least`
`15:47.38`	`Daveman`	`O.o`
`15:47.50`	`Daveman`	`brlcad did you get my message last night?`
`15:48.06`	`brlcad`	`Daveman: yeah, there will be more feedback given regardless :)`
`15:48.11`	`brlcad`	`(to all)`
`15:49.12`	`brlcad`	`~weather kbwi`
`15:49.23`	`SportChick`	`that's nasty brlcad`
`15:49.37`	`SportChick`	`brlcad: I remember Midwest Championships my novice year were like that`
`15:49.37`	`brlcad`	`it was 80 just two days ago, fast freeze`
`15:49.50`	`Daveman`	`thanks brlcad :)`
`15:49.58`	`SportChick`	`the wind was so bad it took us 4 starts to get a decent start`
`15:50.21`	`SportChick`	`the first two starts had a boat pushed off course and crashing into one of the neighboring lanes`
`15:50.36`	`SportChick`	`the third was a false start`
`15:51.26`	`SportChick`	`I caught a crab on the 4th start and we recovered, but came in 2nd by about 1/2 inch - they had to pull the photos to confirm`
`15:51.33`	`SportChick`	`(I was stroke - I was ugly)`
`15:51.33`	`Daveman`	`o.O`
`15:53.40`	`brlcad`	`fun stuff :)`
`15:53.47`	`*** join/#bzflag [dmp] (n=dennis@koderen.dk)`
`15:54.45`	`brlcad`	`one of my worst rows in college was a sprint down in VA that had major white-capping, two foot swells, about a 30mph wind, yet they didn't cancel the race`
`15:55.14`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`15:55.14`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`15:55.17`	`brlcad`	`was racing a four and bow (me) had to row hard continuous just to stay in place`
`15:55.22`	`SportChick`	`brlcad: yeah, this was similar, but in Wisconsin`
`15:55.41`	`brlcad`	`we won mostly because our crew was the only that was used to crap conditions in the harbor :)`
`15:58.28`	`*** join/#bzflag Epyon (i=xpj123@host99.180.219.81.magma-net.pl)`
`15:58.33`	`Epyon`	`ello all :)`
`15:59.46`	`Daveman`	`Hello gentlemen.`
`16:05.23`	`brlcad`	`owdy Epyon`
`16:05.57`	`Epyon`	`brlcad, I assume no new news on the slotcounts ;]`
`16:07.35`	`brlcad`	`only the count will be updated at first, it'll still be probably through the weekend and a couple days before the finalities are set`
`16:08.01`	`brlcad`	`save for a couple students maybe`
`16:08.21`	`JeffM2501`	`TimRiker, re the other ports, those are for other things, not the management stuff, listening on the game port is done and ready for whatever the SoCers may do with it :)`
`16:23.43`	`*** part/#bzflag me1 (n=mkumykov@pool-71-184-81-209.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)`
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`16:26.58`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone] by ChanServ`
`16:29.01`	`*** join/#bzflag JBdiGriz (n=jbdigriz@206-15-67-5.static.twtelecom.net)`
`16:29.01`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JBdiGriz] by ChanServ`
`16:29.50`	`*** join/#bzflag Erroneous (n=dtremena@67-131-219-2.dia.static.qwest.net)`
`16:38.42`	`JBdiGriz`	`Sounds like something is missing`
`16:39.59`	`brlcad`	`that falls under food`
`16:40.23`	`brlcad`	`~JBdiGriz++`
`16:40.37`	`*** join/#bzflag Links2004[Links] (n=Links200@mnhm-590c0dc6.pool.einsundeins.de)`
`16:41.24`	`Links2004[Links]`	`i have a problem`
`16:41.37`	`JeffM2501`	`and it is?`
`16:41.39`	`brlcad`	`yo' I'll solve`
`16:41.41`	`brlcad`	`it`
`16:41.56`	`Links2004[Links]`	`i will send the tk wind losts be leaving the bzflag server`
`16:41.58`	`Links2004[Links]`	`http://pastebin.ca/427096`
`16:42.04`	`Links2004[Links]`	`but i become always 0`
`16:42.35`	`brlcad`	`just check out the hook while my dj revolves it`
`16:42.57`	`JeffM2501`	`Links2004[Links], they arn't floats`
`16:42.58`	`brlcad`	`funny how appropriate that is to bzapi`
`16:42.58`	`JeffM2501`	`they are ints`
`16:43.16`	`JeffM2501`	`%d not %f`
`16:43.23`	`brlcad`	`that would make JeffM2501 the dj`
`16:43.26`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: I'd prefer that we have some other multiplexed interface to plugins on the normal port. but that's just me.`
`16:43.37`	`brlcad`	`jeff jeff master M`
`16:43.45`	`JeffM2501`	`TimRiker, we do, that is done`
`16:43.59`	`JeffM2501`	`and isn't going to be removed`
`16:44.11`	`Links2004[Links]`	`i whitout bz_format its nor work and whit bz_format dont too`
`16:44.20`	`JeffM2501`	`the other port is for stuff that needs another port ( like a proto that needs more then one port )`
`16:44.45`	`JeffM2501`	`Links2004[Links], for the score items, change the %f to a %d`
`16:44.51`	`JeffM2501`	`in the format`
`16:44.52`	`Links2004[Links]`	`k i test`
`16:45.02`	`TimRiker`	`just like to discourage that as much as possible. :) but I concur there will be a need someday.`
`16:45.12`	`JeffM2501`	`FTP needs more then one port`
`16:45.19`	`JeffM2501`	`it will be totaly optinal`
`16:45.28`	`JeffM2501`	`I just want all the hooks in place now`
`16:45.42`	`JeffM2501`	`I know you wanted single port, so I did all that first`
`16:45.57`	`JeffM2501`	`and it seems to be working`
`16:45.58`	`JBdiGriz`	`FTP is a very protocol to use as a model.`
`16:46.06`	`brlcad`	`very`
`16:46.12`	`JBdiGriz`	`FTP is a very POOR protocol to use as a model.`
`16:46.18`	`brlcad`	`:)`
`16:46.31`	`JeffM2501`	`I tested HTTP and telnet as ones that need a client and a server handshake`
`16:46.46`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah, well the main use for me is stuff that won't let you cange port`
`16:46.49`	`TimRiker`	`FTP does not NEED 2 ports. pasv would be one port.`
`16:46.52`	`JeffM2501`	`or a whacky idea I have`
`16:46.57`	`brlcad`	`so is http really, stateless, transactionless`
`16:47.05`	`JBdiGriz`	`Don't cange the port`
`16:47.49`	`JeffM2501`	`I just said it`
`16:47.54`	`TimRiker`	`:)`
`16:48.14`	`brlcad`	`JBdiGriz: it's because they're very sentences`
`16:48.17`	`TimRiker`	`should be able to use the same port and just add a new protocol prefix. SYSLINK or some such.`
`16:48.31`	`JBdiGriz`	`brlcad: Something needs canging`
`16:48.47`	`brlcad`	`ineed :)`
`16:48.59`	`JBdiGriz`	`It can't be too early in the morning for everyone. I'm still trying to finish my morning caffeine.`
`16:49.40`	`TimRiker`	`one needs to call the other. the caller might even be able to specify the source port as the same as his listen port. not sure all OSes would allow that though. they should.`
`16:49.50`	`JeffM2501`	`it was wierd to have http, telnet, and bzflag all on one port`
`16:50.03`	`TimRiker`	`:) but firewall friendly.`
`16:50.30`	`TimRiker`	`we also have the udp side on that same port.`
`16:50.31`	`JBdiGriz`	`That depends on the security model for the firewall. Most people would say it's firewall unfriendly.`
`16:50.31`	`Links2004[Links]`	`thx now its work`
`16:51.16`	`JeffM2501`	`Links2004[Links], I HIGHLY recomend you get yourself a book on basic C`
`16:51.46`	`brlcad`	`yeah, i'd specifically want to limit non bzflag-client connections to be only from authorized hosts`
`16:52.22`	`brlcad`	`same port makes that impossible`
`16:52.41`	`JBdiGriz`	`Just more difficult, not impossible`
`16:53.03`	`brlcad`	`well, considerably more difficult to the point of being unreasonable, imho`
`16:53.22`	`JBdiGriz`	`Someone has to parse the packets coming in. ;)`
`16:54.15`	`JeffM2501`	`thats why I want to put in the hooks for on standard port too :)`
`16:54.45`	`brlcad`	`i mean, you have someone running a bzfs with [insert alternate protocol here] and some vulnerability potential to execute code, that's a road I'd want to lock down`
`16:55.48`	`brlcad`	`just opened up a whole new protocol of vulnerability potentials on top of bzfs'`
`16:56.32`	`brlcad`	`sure you can still have something in bzfs' client protocol, but that doesn't justify making it worse without at least option means to limit/protect`
`16:58.26`	`brlcad`	`JeffM2501: standard ports generally require tcpwrapping and/or running as a privileged user`
`16:58.45`	`brlcad`	`that would be a rather bad admin decision for most protocols :)`
`16:59.08`	`brlcad`	`without localhost limiting or somesuch`
`16:59.56`	`JeffM2501`	`so should I hook up listening on a non game port or not?`
`17:00.43`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`17:00.46`	`JeffM2501`	`that's all I was gonna do :)`
`17:01.17`	`JeffM2501`	`you install a listener and bzfs will checkit as part of it's normal networking checks and the service you with the data`
`17:02.25`	`TimRiker`	`I'm fine with hooking it up, I just don't want anyone to use it. :)`
`17:02.53`	`JeffM2501`	`just like the API ;)`
`17:03.24`	`TimRiker`	`brlcad: I'd much rather head towards central authentication, and not address blocking. still use address blocking for our known black list, but not for admin/etc access.`
`17:03.31`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: :)`
`17:03.33`	`JeffM2501`	`I gotta go get clean, then walk the dogs then I'll get on it.`
`17:03.49`	`SportChick`	`tupone: you always count`
`17:04.12`	`JeffM2501`	`those that want a single port can use the single port`
`17:04.15`	`JeffM2501`	`that is not changing`
`17:04.18`	`JeffM2501`	`single port is in`
`17:04.21`	`JeffM2501`	`and ready to rock`
`17:04.25`	`brlcad`	`TimRiker: that's all fine and dandy for bzfs adminnage, but that's entirely not the scope of what's being provided`
`17:04.28`	`tupone`	`TimRiker: on the last part of the sentence`
`17:04.32`	`tupone`	`?`
`17:04.44`	`TimRiker`	`tupone: huh?`
`17:04.51`	`blast007`	`"but I don't count"`
`17:04.56`	`tupone`	`:)`
`17:05.18`	`TimRiker`	`tupone: no.. on the single port. I don't agree with the rest. I should have been more clear.`
`17:05.35`	`tupone`	`thanks :)`
`17:05.48`	`brlcad`	`TimRiker: i get what you're saying, and I'd vehemently agree on the single port for bzfs admin/connection matters, if that was all that was being provided, there'd be no discussion`
`17:05.49`	`TimRiker`	`brlcad: but many non-bzadmin things can and should use some flavor of authentication.`
`17:05.54`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm just leveling the land, you guys can build your powerplants or bikesheds on it ;)`
`17:07.07`	`TimRiker`	`if that authentication wants to be source ip/port, then that can be done after the original connection. I see your point that it's not the same, but it is easier to firewall etc.`
`17:07.08`	`brlcad`	`you're talking about tying arbitrary plugins and protocols with all of their potential vulnerabilities right along with all of those of bzfs as well`
`17:07.55`	`TimRiker`	`brlcad: agreed. but for most admins running them on other ports will NOT make them more secure. it just means that the exploit is on a different port. it's still there.`
`17:08.40`	`brlcad`	`sure, but then that's where I can mitigate the risk on that other port`
`17:08.55`	`brlcad`	`i can't mitigate it when it's tied to the same port`
`17:09.22`	`TimRiker`	`I do see your point. We need to think carefully about what we add to protect from exploits. that's also true for other port implementations. but it's more visible for same port.`
`17:10.02`	`TimRiker`	`brlcad: you CAN and SHOULD mitigate it on the same port. you just have to do it in the server and not in a firewall.`
`17:10.17`	`brlcad`	`i'm actually not so worried about what we add, as you noted .. we're just as likely to open an exploit in bzfs directly ;)`
`17:10.24`	`brlcad`	`it's the plugin-writers that I fear :)`
`17:11.02`	`brlcad`	`and their plugins will result in the same OSVDB report and sully our precious name ;)`
`17:11.43`	`tupone`	`We have an already assigned port, having/using other port from remote host will ask for more difficult firewall setup, as ports will not be consecutive number. SO we are increasing complexity`
`17:12.31`	`brlcad`	`cept the bz port is generally wide open and unfiltered so clients can connect`
`17:13.24`	`JeffM2501`	`fear the people who mod server code then too`
`17:13.37`	`*** join/#bzflag cosmol (n=dave@71.86.121.200)`
`17:13.40`	`brlcad`	`adding a port increases the software complexity, but I don't see how it makes a firewall more difficult .. except perhaps "difficulting in unblocking" with a default block rule`
`17:14.18`	`brlcad`	`JeffM2501: as years have shown, nobody wants to touch the server code -- they lub the plugins ;)`
`17:14.29`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah cus it's easier`
`17:14.47`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm just saying that they both can do the same thing if someone wanted to something "nasty"`
`17:18.07`	`tupone`	`brlcad, I'm referring only at routing from router to an internal computer, to mak eit work, not to block it`
`17:18.08`	`brlcad`	`it's not anything that someone will want to do, i'm thinking vulnerability bugs that might compromise a system`
`17:18.58`	`brlcad`	`the plugins are compably easy for them.. just don't want it to be too easy to let them shoot themselves in the foot without at least providing them an option to store their gun in a safe`
`17:18.58`	`tupone`	`maybe I should have said NAT instead of firewall`
`17:18.59`	`JeffM2501`	`thats why I'm against building HTTPD into bzflag at compile time, make it external so it's totaly optional and opt in.`
`17:19.34`	`brlcad`	`hm, that's a different topic altogether :P`
`17:19.45`	`JeffM2501`	`for a nat, single port makes for an easier config`
`17:19.48`	`JeffM2501`	`that is true`
`17:19.50`	`brlcad`	`there should be some integrated admin interface imho`
`17:20.03`	`JeffM2501`	`bzadmin :)`
`17:20.03`	`brlcad`	`httpd or otherwise`
`17:20.04`	`*** join/#bzflag Quol (n=Quol@modemcable177.75-202-24.mc.videotron.ca)`
`17:20.19`	`brlcad`	`sure, but I can't admin the server fully at the moment`
`17:20.28`	`JeffM2501`	`what can't it do?`
`17:20.28`	`brlcad`	`i just get to watch`
`17:20.57`	`brlcad`	`well, depends on the setup of course, privs, etc`
`17:21.01`	`JeffM2501`	`not every user needs an integrated one, the SSHers may not even want it open`
`17:21.16`	`brlcad`	`integrated doesn't mean enabled`
`17:21.26`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm mostly woried about what we'll have to put in our bin builds`
`17:21.49`	`brlcad`	`like what?`
`17:21.52`	`brlcad`	`external dep issue?`
`17:22.00`	`JeffM2501`	`no, if we build them with HTTP or without`
`17:22.13`	`JeffM2501`	`if we buidl them without, then you have to rebuild to get it`
`17:22.23`	`brlcad`	`that's more what I mean by integrated -- something that is always compile-time available`
`17:22.27`	`JeffM2501`	`if we build them with, and there is a vuneralbilithy then we screw those that odn't use it`
`17:22.33`	`brlcad`	`e.g. debugging is integrated`
`17:22.41`	`JeffM2501`	`not if you don't build debug :)`
`17:22.42`	`brlcad`	`someone has a problem, we tell them to add some d's`
`17:22.47`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh`
`17:22.55`	`JeffM2501`	`off by default is good`
`17:23.03`	`JeffM2501`	`well better`
`17:23.26`	`JeffM2501`	`but if they have to turn it on with a switch, why not make the switch -loadplugin ;)`
`17:23.28`	`brlcad`	`finding a plugin is a bit more different unless we get into the business of shipping plugins outright to everyone so that they are enabled`
`17:23.36`	`brlcad`	`(like windows does)`
`17:23.48`	`JeffM2501`	`I think we shuld ship some plugins`
`17:23.48`	`brlcad`	`s/enabled/enableable/`
`17:23.55`	`JeffM2501`	`we build them with make :)`
`17:24.21`	`brlcad`	`yeah, it's not really much different than apache modules and such`
`17:24.26`	`JeffM2501`	`and as you have said people love them, so they will get used`
`17:24.36`	`JeffM2501`	`so turning them on in our bins just helps people out`
`17:24.43`	`brlcad`	`it's just a management/distribution/packaging usability issue`
`17:24.57`	`JeffM2501`	`indeed`
`17:25.10`	`JeffM2501`	`to me, modularith == good`
`17:25.14`	`JeffM2501`	`modularity even`
`17:25.37`	`JeffM2501`	`I also worry that if we something that hooks in and grabs http requests by default, it makes it harder to add a plugin that does that instead`
`17:25.52`	`JeffM2501`	`there needs to be a clean way to fully disable it, if the owner wants there own http handler`
`17:26.03`	`brlcad`	`I would want to expect an admin interface, which would be more like being guaranteed that I'd know that they can just add a flag (whether it's -loadplugin or -httpAdminPort # or whatever)`
`17:26.24`	`brlcad`	`without recompiling or installing something extra -- you have bzfs, you have the capability`
`17:26.30`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`17:26.52`	`JeffM2501`	`if we can ship plug-in of ourse that would be my prefered method`
`17:27.08`	`JeffM2501`	`as that gives us more then just admin :)`
`17:27.22`	`JeffM2501`	`cus then we can make a stat push plug-in we ship by default`
`17:27.37`	`brlcad`	`it's like expecting apache to have dir_module .. you just do`
`17:28.00`	`JeffM2501`	`I can even make it scan a dir and auto load them :)`
`17:28.14`	`JeffM2501`	`modules_avialable and modules_enabled`
`17:28.33`	`brlcad`	`file(s)`
`17:29.02`	`brlcad`	`that could list what's available so you could disable them from being even allowed to load even if installed`
`17:29.08`	`Daveman`	`will there be an option to list what plugins are currently loaded, or are available?`
`17:29.20`	`JeffM2501`	`/listplugins`
`17:29.20`	`Daveman`	`oh, heh`
`17:29.22`	`brlcad`	`you can already find out what's loaded`
`17:29.30`	`JeffM2501`	`via in game, or the API`
`17:29.37`	`Daveman`	`okay`
`17:29.50`	`JeffM2501`	`now the scarry API call was realy added last night`
`17:29.55`	`JeffM2501`	`bz_unloadPlugin`
`17:30.04`	`brlcad`	`eek`
`17:30.14`	`JeffM2501`	`exactly`
`17:30.25`	`brlcad`	`i don't think you reliably can, though it should be able to at least clear the command-space`
`17:30.27`	`JeffM2501`	`but an admin plug-in would need it`
`17:30.45`	`JeffM2501`	`if it dosn't work, I'll cache them and unload them after all the events are done`
`17:30.59`	`JeffM2501`	`you "should" be able to unload anyone that isn't YOU`
`17:31.16`	`JeffM2501`	`just like you can call /unloadplugin at any time`
`17:31.51`	`JeffM2501`	`bu unload it means deregister, I don't know if the module is freed from mem on all OSs`
`17:31.55`	`JeffM2501`	`it is on windows`
`17:32.26`	`brlcad`	`not that it matters, but I don't think you can dlclose() on 10.2 and maybe not even on 10.3`
`17:32.43`	`JeffM2501`	`hey TimRiker can I have 4 space indents?`
`17:32.46`	`brlcad`	`at least, it doesn't actually do anything`
`17:32.53`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`17:32.57`	`JeffM2501`	`screw < 10.4`
`17:33.43`	`JeffM2501`	`hey I was good, I went and fixed the API header and Cpp to have the currnet style`
`17:33.57`	`JeffM2501`	`tupone, then you limit to one script language ;)`
`17:34.15`	`tupone`	`CS support python, java, perl`
`17:34.17`	`JeffM2501`	`tupone, how do you feel about 4 space indents ;)`
`17:34.18`	`brlcad`	`tupone: what about tying swig to the api`
`17:34.25`	`tupone`	`swig and lua`
`17:34.52`	`brlcad`	`swig could be tied almost directly as one mega-plugin in itself, and that would get you just about all scripting languages`
`17:34.53`	`JeffM2501`	`if you are going to base it all on CS, just do the entire game in CEL then`
`17:34.54`	`tupone`	`I'm scared about run time linking to bzfs`
`17:35.09`	`JeffM2501`	`tupone, it works great :)`
`17:35.23`	`tupone`	`no it does not, unless you mean sometime`
`17:35.26`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad, sounds like what the python plugin does`
`17:35.30`	`JeffM2501`	`a lot of people are using them`
`17:35.35`	`JeffM2501`	`so it must work for them`
`17:35.52`	`JeffM2501`	`now libtool is confusing as all hell, that is true`
`17:36.14`	`JeffM2501`	`but realy if you want to go full CS, have you looked into using CEL?`
`17:36.24`	`JeffM2501`	`would that not be the best way to pick up all the CSness of it?`
`17:36.44`	`tupone`	`no, I have not, and I don't want. Not for the server`
`17:36.50`	`brlcad`	`JeffM2501: it is, but instead of bzapi->python it's bzapi->swig->(python,lua,perl,php,tcl,ruby,C#,lisp,java,ml,...)`
`17:36.59`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad, yeah I get that`
`17:37.24`	`JeffM2501`	`tupone, if CS isn't going to be used on the server, then why would it's lanuage support be an issue for server side plugins, /me is confused`
`17:37.24`	`*** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=kalen@fl-71-49-6-228.dhcp.embarqhsd.net)`
`17:37.45`	`brlcad`	`especially since the api itself isn't a plugin, it's part of bzfs`
`17:37.52`	`JeffM2501`	`indeed`
`17:37.57`	`tupone`	`twas just an example`
`17:38.01`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh`
`17:38.20`	`brlcad`	`libtool isn't any more confusing than anything else you don't understand :)`
`17:38.20`	`JeffM2501`	`I didn't know if you were going to use CS on the server for world management`
`17:38.30`	`JeffM2501`	`true`
`17:38.41`	`JeffM2501`	`tho it's more then just me that is confused by it`
`17:38.48`	`JeffM2501`	`we get a lot of "where did it put the .so"`
`17:38.58`	`tupone`	`I have still problem planning the client, dont want to thing loudly at the server`
`17:38.59`	`brlcad`	`just trying to do a hard portability problem`
`17:39.29`	`JeffM2501`	`I think it could be documentd at little better on our end, where the plug-ins end up, etc..`
`17:39.37`	`brlcad`	`yep, which is the flawed premise for libraries/binaries when you talk about portability .. they're not valid until they're installed`
`17:39.46`	`brlcad`	`we just have users used to not installing`
`17:39.46`	`JeffM2501`	`tupone, yeah I do not envy your task :)`
`17:40.07`	`JeffM2501`	`well then is it doced that they should "install"`
`17:40.16`	`JeffM2501`	`I just see a general level of confusion`
`17:40.24`	`JeffM2501`	`to me that tells me there is an issue somewhere`
`17:40.33`	`brlcad`	`probably docs`
`17:40.45`	`brlcad`	`and change to their prior behavior`
`17:43.02`	`*** join/#bzflag patlkli (n=patlkli@unixboard/users/patlkli)`
`17:45.23`	`*** join/#bzflag jpa- (i=jpa@xob.kapsi.fi)`
`17:45.41`	`Daveman`	`brlcad, convert the heathens! :)`
`17:45.41`	`jpa-`	`hrm, i'm getting segfault when connecting to bzflag2.norang.ca:4420 on 2.0.8`
`17:45.43`	`tupone`	`what should do a SetKeyColor on a texture? transparence or what?`
`17:46.22`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`17:46.24`	`brlcad`	`jpa-: stack trace?`
`17:46.28`	`jpa-`	`http://pastebin.ca/427207`
`17:46.32`	`JeffM2501`	`it tells the engine that one color is transperant`
`17:46.36`	`JeffM2501`	`like single bit alpha`
`17:46.38`	`JeffM2501`	`on or off`
`17:46.47`	`tupone`	`ahh, ok. We don't use I think`
`17:46.51`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`17:46.54`	`jpa-`	`the screen is at "Downloading files..." when it crashes`
`17:46.56`	`JeffM2501`	`we do a full alpha channel`
`17:47.05`	`JeffM2501`	`some games use it to save space in textures`
`17:47.12`	`JeffM2501`	`as you save 1 byte per pixel`
`17:47.15`	`JeffM2501`	`but you get a hard edge`
`17:47.25`	`brlcad`	`jpa-: sounds like a curl library problem of some sort.. try running bzflag in gsb`
`17:47.32`	`brlcad`	`bleh, s/gsb/gdb/`
`17:47.55`	`jpa-`	`hum, check that pastebin link`
`17:48.30`	`brlcad`	`ah, missed that cool`
`17:49.09`	`jpa-`	`it happens sometimes, seems somehow dependent on the map`
`17:50.37`	`patlkli`	`Daveman: well done`
`17:51.08`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: huh? 4 space?`
`17:51.19`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: you want to change the world again?`
`17:51.57`	`brlcad`	`jpa-: up 4; p multiHandle`
`17:52.09`	`Daveman`	`I've just discovered a wealth of nested functions available that I didn't even know that existed; and it's so contextually helpful for my makefiles! :D`
`17:52.47`	`brlcad`	`or maybe up 3`
`17:53.09`	`brlcad`	`so you're inside perform()`
`17:54.02`	`jpa-`	`brlcad: hrm, $1 = (CURLM *) 0x8a621e8`
`17:54.15`	`brlcad`	`er p *multiHandle`
`17:54.24`	`jpa-`	`tried that also, Attempt to dereference a generic pointer.`
`17:55.02`	`*** join/#bzflag Sir_Pants (n=Sir_Pant@67-42-80-2.tukw.qwest.net)`
`17:55.04`	`brlcad`	`p (CURLM*)multiHandle`
`17:55.14`	`brlcad`	`or variation thereof`
`17:55.28`	`brlcad`	`need to cast it`
`17:55.58`	`JeffM2501`	`TimRiker, always :)`
`17:56.32`	`jpa-`	`hmm i wonder if i'm missing the debugging symbols of curl or something similar, with the cast it still gives the same "generic pointer" thing`
`17:57.32`	`jpa-`	`btw. at the same time, on another computer, i can connect without trouble.. (and it is using curl also)`
`17:57.41`	`brlcad`	`CURLM is probably conditionally declared void pointer, need to find the real type`
`17:59.04`	`brlcad`	`it's going to be OS and libcurl version dependent`
`17:59.16`	`jpa-`	`hrm`
`18:00.20`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: ugh. if we change formatting we loose nice diff output. lets get 2.2 out and then kill tabs. I'd prefer 2 space indents, but I'll go with the majority on that. We should add a commit filter that won't let tabs in.`
`18:00.53`	`JeffM2501`	`ok, then that's a yes ;)`
`18:01.01`	`TimRiker`	`sorta, I suppose.`
`18:01.15`	`TimRiker`	`you up for killing tabs too?`
`18:01.21`	`jpa-`	`how to find out libcurl version?`
`18:01.27`	`TimRiker`	`others have useful opinions?`
`18:01.50`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: I do NOT want tabs at anything other than 8.`
`18:01.53`	`JeffM2501`	`but Erroneous is making a VC plugin that will automaticly set me up based on the vi cruft at the botom`
`18:01.58`	`JeffM2501`	`TimRiker, I'm cool with that part`
`18:02.10`	`JeffM2501`	`2 for indent looks small to me`
`18:02.16`	`JeffM2501`	`so it's bikeshed`
`18:02.22`	`TimRiker`	`bikeshed?`
`18:02.31`	`JeffM2501`	`http://blue.bikeshed.com`
`18:02.35`	`TimRiker`	`~dict bikeshed`
`18:03.19`	`JeffM2501`	`WTF, a bit of OSS/nix lore that I know, and TimRiker does not!?!?!`
`18:03.25`	`JeffM2501`	`how could this be`
`18:03.42`	`TimRiker`	`http://white.bikeshed.com/`
`18:03.50`	`JeffM2501`	`indeed`
`18:03.54`	`TimRiker`	`heh`
`18:04.05`	`Chestal`	`yay, kill the evil tabs`
`18:04.32`	`TimRiker`	`JeffM2501: indeed. I'd not read the bikeshed blurb before.`
`18:04.52`	`JeffM2501`	`I head about it in a google video`
`18:05.16`	`JeffM2501`	`ok, back to breaking up the main loop some more`
`18:05.49`	`JeffM2501`	`hmmm, may have to change net handler a bit`
`18:07.30`	`Erroneous`	`hm, we're detabbing? sounds good to me`
`18:07.47`	`Erroneous`	`as long as nobody tries to say tabs != 8`
`18:08.06`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't think anyone has said that`
`18:08.13`	`Erroneous`	`detabbing would fix the mid-line tab formatting issues to`
`18:08.25`	`Erroneous`	`too`
`18:09.06`	`jpa-`	`brlcad: hmm tested it, curl-7.15.4 has problems, curl-7.15.5 works`
`18:09.20`	`jpa-`	`brlcad: i wonder if it is a bzflag or a curl issue`
`18:09.24`	`JeffM2501`	`jpa-, .4 had many known issues`
`18:09.27`	`brlcad`	`your fears are justified, that's tricky`
`18:09.33`	`JeffM2501`	`crash on join with out listing`
`18:09.41`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad, well I understand more of it now`
`18:09.41`	`jpa-`	`ok`
`18:09.50`	`jpa-`	`next up: how to get .5 on ubuntu :)`
`18:09.59`	`brlcad`	`jpa-: it is indeed a curl issue, and I've not had any luck finding if there's any workaround we could shoehorn in to bypass it`
`18:10.09`	`JeffM2501`	`mostly I'd have to remove the staticness of some of the funcitons, and set up a netConnection manager, that coudl be instanced per listen port`
`18:10.22`	`jpa-`	`brlcad: ok`
`18:11.14`	`brlcad`	`jpa-: you're not alone: http://bugs.donarmstrong.com/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=375076`
`18:12.28`	`jpa-`	`yay, works now with .5`
`18:12.39`	`jpa-`	`after two hours of debugging i finally get to play :)`
`18:13.48`	`*** part/#bzflag jpa- (i=jpa@xob.kapsi.fi)`
`18:16.59`	`*** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux)`
`18:20.25`	`JeffM2501`	`tupone, I see that we let curl add to our read and write socketset, but when does it actualy read any pending data? in the perform done at the end?`
`18:25.06`	`tupone`	`it should be that IIRC`
`18:30.10`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`18:35.35`	`*** join/#bzflag Quol (n=Quol@modemcable177.75-202-24.mc.videotron.ca)`
`18:41.36`	`Erroneous`	`vs extensibility is truly bizzare`
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`18:47.14`	`*** part/#bzflag CyberForte (n=gapanny@pool-70-23-183-35.ny325.east.verizon.net)`
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`18:55.16`	`tupone`	`is texture filtering important to be left to user, or we could leave it has filtered?`
`18:55.28`	`*** join/#bzflag Winny (n=Winny@CPE0016b6de59f3-CM000f9fac8236.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`18:55.41`	`Erroneous`	`heh, AutoPilot.cxx doesn't have an indent block...no wonder it wasn't working right :S`
`18:55.50`	`JeffM2501`	`it's probably good enough to have 2 modes, high and low`
`18:56.05`	`JeffM2501`	`and have that toggle between nearest, and bilinear-mip-maped`
`18:56.15`	`JeffM2501`	`our choice of all the modes is a bit overkill`
`18:56.18`	`tupone`	`CS gives nofiltering and filtering (dunno what no means)`
`18:56.24`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`18:56.27`	`Erroneous`	`wow...it actually works!`
`18:56.29`	`JeffM2501`	`that's nearest and bilienar`
`18:56.30`	`JeffM2501`	`:)`
`18:56.34`	`Erroneous`	`JeffM2501: come check this out :)`
`18:56.35`	`JeffM2501`	`tupone, those 2 options are fine`
`18:56.37`	`patlkli`	`mhm`
`18:56.39`	`tupone`	`ok`
`18:56.41`	`JeffM2501`	`Erroneous, I'm not there`
`18:56.47`	`Erroneous`	`aw :(*`
`18:56.59`	`Erroneous`	`thought it'd been quiet around here`
`18:57.34`	`Erroneous`	`I'll see if I can build an installer for it and send it to you`
`18:58.01`	`JeffM2501`	`k`
`18:59.01`	`*** join/#bzflag Pommes_ (n=Pommes@pd9546d04.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`19:02.17`	`JeffM2501`	`cool`
`19:02.33`	`JeffM2501`	`you do it in 8 or 7.1?`
`19:02.49`	`JeffM2501`	`slap it up as a google code project :)`
`19:02.56`	`Erroneous`	`7.1`
`19:03.05`	`Erroneous`	`heh, it's majorly ugly`
`19:03.10`	`Erroneous`	`I'll clean it up some and do that though`
`19:04.45`	`Erroneous`	`http://zalmoxis.swordofkahless.com/exTabSettings.zip`
`19:05.25`	`JeffM2501`	`heh nice name :)`
`19:05.45`	`JeffM2501`	`set the dir to where VC is? or wherever it wants to go?`
`19:05.55`	`Erroneous`	`wherever it wants`
`19:06.14`	`Erroneous`	`should register itself and set itself to autolaunch`
`19:06.29`	`Erroneous`	`so after it's installed, starting vc should start it too`
`19:06.36`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm suprised noone has done this before`
`19:06.53`	`Erroneous`	`then just open a few files...should set to 4/4 if no ex: line, or whatever the ex: line is if it's there`
`19:07.07`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah just checked, I'm set to 4/4 now`
`19:07.10`	`JeffM2501`	`opening BZ`
`19:08.11`	`JeffM2501`	`aww lookat that :)`
`19:08.17`	`JeffM2501`	`good job`
`19:08.17`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r13994 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/AutoPilot.cxx: add standard indentation block for emacs and vi`
`19:08.25`	`Erroneous`	`:)`
`19:08.52`	`Erroneous`	`I'm kinda surprised how cleanly it integrates. it's virtually invisible`
`19:08.56`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`19:09.01`	`Erroneous`	`"just works"`
`19:09.04`	`JeffM2501`	`seriously google code that sucker`
`19:09.24`	`JeffM2501`	`and tell the SoC list about it, I'm sure a number of students are going to VC it`
`19:10.08`	`JeffM2501`	`it needs a better name`
`19:10.14`	`JeffM2501`	`TabinatorVC+`
`19:10.38`	`JeffM2501`	`or just viTabs`
`19:10.40`	`Erroneous`	`exVisualStudio had come to mind`
`19:10.53`	`JeffM2501`	`AutoSpacer`
`19:11.00`	`Erroneous`	`but I don't really support all the ex: options`
`19:11.13`	`Erroneous`	`could prolly add more`
`19:11.27`	`JeffM2501`	`intent-o-matic 5000`
`19:12.45`	`JeffM2501`	`AgroSaverVC`
`19:19.49`	`RatOmeter`	`JeffM2501, I just built SVN head and I see the dual monitor "option" (don't minimize BSZFlag client when it loses focus in Windows) isn't enabled. Can you point me in the right direction, please?`
`19:20.18`	`RatOmeter`	`er, BSZFlag -> BZFlag`
`19:20.30`	`JeffM2501`	`like a menu item for it?`
`19:20.35`	`JeffM2501`	`did somone add one?`
`19:20.42`	`JeffM2501`	`oh`
`19:20.44`	`RatOmeter`	`my impression was that it was a compile time option`
`19:20.48`	`JeffM2501`	`no`
`19:20.52`	`JeffM2501`	`not at all`
`19:20.54`	`JeffM2501`	`it was a bzdb var`
`19:20.59`	`RatOmeter`	`ah`
`19:21.06`	`JeffM2501`	`let me see if I did it in both places`
`19:21.07`	`JeffM2501`	`I think I did`
`19:22.44`	`JeffM2501`	`guess I didn't`
`19:22.46`	`JeffM2501`	`one sec`
`19:23.58`	`tupone`	`hmm, Filtering is disabled automatically with software renderer, via configuration file, and forced via configuration file too, you can only disable on a texture base. I guess is ok no disabling filtering on each texture`
`19:24.24`	`JeffM2501`	`thats fine`
`19:24.30`	`JeffM2501`	`you want it all or none anyway`
`19:24.35`	`JeffM2501`	`software filtering is slow`
`19:25.21`	`tupone`	`There is an xml with some condition that rule it automagically`
`19:25.33`	`*** join/#bzflag RazZziel (n=Raziel@80.174.126.230)`
`19:26.25`	`JeffM2501`	`most of our players wll want it on`
`19:26.33`	`JeffM2501`	`only the super low will want it off`
`19:27.08`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13995 10/trunk/bzflag/src/ (bzflag/clientCommands.cxx platform/WinDisplay.cxx): add Win32NoMin support to trunk`
`19:27.26`	`JeffM2501`	`RatOmeter, that'll do it for ya`
`19:27.34`	`RatOmeter`	`Aye, and I thank you.`
`19:27.45`	`JeffM2501`	`sure`
`19:28.50`	`*** join/#bzflag donny_baker (n=donny_ba@about/essy/vvvvv/donnybaker)`
`19:30.54`	`*** join/#bzflag L4m3r (i=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r)`
`19:30.54`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ`
`19:31.41`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13996 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: have curl do it's own select.`
`19:38.55`	`*** join/#bzflag ElectricElf (n=dbharris@bas14-toronto12-1167999058.dsl.bell.ca)`
`19:46.10`	`*** join/#bzflag Sir_Pants (n=Sir_Pant@67-42-80-2.tukw.qwest.net)`
`19:47.27`	`RatOmeter`	`In SVN head, apparently "set password" isn't auto-saved in "config.cfg". Known?`
`19:47.53`	`Erroneous`	`RatOmeter: there's a setting for it`
`19:47.59`	`Erroneous`	`on the options page`
`19:48.09`	`blast007`	`defautls to callsign only`
`19:48.14`	`Erroneous`	`we changed the default from "save both" to "save callsign only"`
`19:48.30`	`RatOmeter`	`Oh, thanks again for catering to my ignorance ;)`
`19:58.40`	`*** join/#bzflag me1 (n=mkumykov@pool-71-184-81-209.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)`
`19:59.20`	`TimRiker`	`a sane default`
`20:09.35`	`*** join/#bzflag spldart (n=troublem@cpe-24-28-107-184.houston.res.rr.com)`
`20:10.10`	`spldart`	`OMFG! One of these days I'm goin to remember to never shop Fry's again >:-<`
`20:12.11`	`*** join/#bzflag \|\|Wolverine\|\| (n=qwerty@host144-178-static.104-80-b.business.telecomitalia.it)`
`20:17.01`	`purple_cow`	`is that really a sane default? :P`
`20:20.19`	`purple_cow`	`seems to me that a better solution would be to ask if they want to save the first time, and tell them how they can change it later if they say no`
`20:20.50`	`JeffM2501`	`what.. a game that HELPS you play it.. tha'ts just sane!!!`
`20:22.37`	`*** join/#bzflag Raziel (n=Raziel@80.174.126.173)`
`20:25.58`	`*** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=Constitu@gateway.pct.civiltec.com)`
`20:26.25`	`*** join/#bzflag RatOmeter_ (n=chatzill@139.78.95.188)`
`20:33.14`	`RatOmeter_`	`Don't have much more time to bug you guys, so... fresh build of bzfs and bzflag from head, connect to server, all is cool, leave game and connect again and server crashes`
`20:33.17`	`RatOmeter_`	`http://139.78.95.188/bzflag/bzfsstop.PNG`
`20:33.30`	`RatOmeter_`	`http://139.78.95.188/bzflag/4a27_appcompat.txt`
`20:35.05`	`RatOmeter_`	`info only, it's not like it's stopping me from something "important"`
`20:35.29`	`me1`	`I can't even join a server on bzflag head`
`20:36.34`	`Constitution`	`me1: you sure you have the latest source code?`
`20:36.51`	`Constitution`	`protocol changes are very frequent right now, I think`
`20:37.17`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban)`
`20:38.33`	`*** join/#bzflag Blue_Eyes (n=Blue@host201-224-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)`
`20:38.33`	`me1`	`I just compiled, but I use the annony, I heard annony is 5 hours behind dev svn so they might have fixed it`
`20:39.04`	`RatOmeter_`	`anon 5 hours behind!?`
`20:39.20`	`me1`	`thats what i heard. Dunno though`
`20:40.21`	`JeffM2501`	`thats cvs`
`20:40.39`	`JeffM2501`	`there is no "anon" svn`
`20:40.44`	`JeffM2501`	`we check out from the same place you do`
`20:40.48`	`JeffM2501`	`we just have to authenticate to write`
`20:40.58`	`JeffM2501`	`did you use CVS or SVN?`
`20:40.58`	`me1`	`oh yeah...`
`20:41.01`	`me1`	`svn`
`20:41.14`	`JeffM2501`	`then you should be connecting just fine`
`20:41.24`	`JeffM2501`	`it was fixed ( for me at least ) last night`
`20:41.30`	`JeffM2501`	`tho there may still be issues with it`
`20:41.41`	`JeffM2501`	`Constitution, the proto isn't changing the code handling it is :)`
`20:41.47`	`me1`	`i just compiled around 30 minutes ago and it didn't connect`
`20:41.55`	`Constitution`	`ah, okay :-)`
`20:42.17`	`JeffM2501`	`then you have an issue, what error did it give you?`
`20:42.47`	`me1`	`in the client it just said error connecting to server,`
`20:43.02`	`JeffM2501`	`same proto client and server?`
`20:43.04`	`me1`	`in bzfs it said couldn't resolve the ip when i tried my server`
`20:43.06`	`me1`	`yes`
`20:43.15`	`JeffM2501`	`hmm`
`20:43.25`	`JeffM2501`	`got a debuger?`
`20:44.07`	`me1`	`I don't think so`
`20:44.08`	`JeffM2501`	`RatOmeter_,you too, build debug and see where it crashes`
`20:44.20`	`JeffM2501`	`me1, then you may want to install one :)`
`20:44.25`	`RatOmeter_`	`can do, cap'n`
`20:44.41`	`me1`	`where?`
`20:44.56`	`JeffM2501`	`depends on your OS and distro`
`20:45.01`	`JeffM2501`	`if your not comfortable doing it, no big`
`20:45.16`	`JeffM2501`	`it just helps more if you can see what's going on`
`20:45.31`	`JeffM2501`	`all the net connection code changed`
`20:45.36`	`JeffM2501`	`and has had very little testing`
`20:45.58`	`JeffM2501`	`it's highly likely that there are places that got missed and stuff is not happening in the right way`
`20:46.07`	`JeffM2501`	`but that's what you get with dev code`
`20:47.16`	`JeffM2501`	`tho oddly it looks like I'll be redoing that section of code one more time`
`20:47.18`	`JeffM2501`	`at least`
`20:48.54`	`*** join/#bzflag RazZziel (n=Raziel@80.174.126.184)`
`20:49.42`	`RatOmeter`	`Hmm, I think I was having the same trouble as me1 when I tried connecting from a seperate computer on the network (only tried once). The other tests were done running bzfs and client on the same machine`
`20:50.12`	`JeffM2501`	`I do my tests beween a laptop and a desktop`
`20:50.18`	`RatOmeter`	`probably wise`
`20:50.20`	`JeffM2501`	`but then again that was all in debug on windows`
`20:50.24`	`JeffM2501`	`both should work`
`20:53.17`	`JeffM2501`	`now THIS will be fun`
`20:53.28`	`JeffM2501`	`time to use some of the subversionness`
`20:55.39`	`Constitution`	`JeffM2501: why?`
`20:56.00`	`JeffM2501`	`won't let me move a file`
`20:56.02`	`JeffM2501`	`403`
`20:56.12`	`Constitution`	`hm`
`20:57.59`	`JeffM2501`	`mehh I can just do the mutex elsewhere`
`20:58.13`	`ts`	`Connecting doesn't work for me, either`
`20:58.22`	`JeffM2501`	`cool`
`20:58.30`	`ts`	`but I do not get crashes..`
`20:59.34`	`Epyon`	`JeffM2501, any of the developers works on Windows?`
`20:59.49`	`JeffM2501`	`some`
`21:00.01`	`Epyon`	`Cygwin/Mingw or MSVC?`
`21:00.23`	`JeffM2501`	`VC`
`21:00.40`	`Epyon`	`Hmm, seems I will need to ask my Uni for a copy of VC`
`21:00.42`	`JeffM2501`	`I know of noone,even non devs doing real builds on cygiwn`
`21:00.50`	`JeffM2501`	`you can use what you wish`
`21:01.07`	`JeffM2501`	`there is a free version of VC, the express edition`
`21:01.35`	`Epyon`	`JeffM2501, at the webpage I read that MinGW support is "experimental", and I'm not a guy who likes to play with setting up compilers :P`
`21:02.14`	`JeffM2501`	`what OS do you normaly develop on for your own stuff?`
`21:02.30`	`Epyon`	`Windows always unfortunately.`
`21:02.43`	`JeffM2501`	`and you normaly use mingw?`
`21:03.01`	`Epyon`	`For all the C/C++ stuff I did, yes.`
`21:03.26`	`Epyon`	`I only used it for SDL/OpenGL, so it was enough`
`21:04.12`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh`
`21:04.18`	`JeffM2501`	`well there is VCEE`
`21:04.24`	`JeffM2501`	`the full vesion is better`
`21:04.38`	`JeffM2501`	`we'll probably have to update the solition files for you too`
`21:04.42`	`JeffM2501`	`not that, that's a bad thing`
`21:04.58`	`Epyon`	`JeffM2501, our uni is part of MSAA so I can get a full version for free.`
`21:05.47`	`JeffM2501`	`god`
`21:05.48`	`JeffM2501`	`good`
`21:05.51`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r13997 10/trunk/bzflag/ (3 files in 3 dirs):`
`21:05.51`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: start the generic listener class.`
`21:05.51`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: cleanup the all the curl stuff into a nice little function.`
`21:05.56`	`JeffM2501`	`the editor is quite nice`
`21:06.00`	`JeffM2501`	`Erroneous even says so :)`
`21:07.01`	`JeffM2501`	`then distro some preconfigured VMs`
`21:07.03`	`Epyon`	`I can boot to linux if there's a need ;]`
`21:07.37`	`Epyon`	`It's just that I'm more fammiliar with Win.`
`21:07.56`	`Epyon`	`And some of the programs I use don't have counterparts.`
`21:08.13`	`JeffM2501`	`preaching to the choir there :)`
`21:08.22`	`Constitution`	`ever heard of bochs? ;-)`
`21:08.33`	`JeffM2501`	`our VC8 projects are probalby a little out dated, but we can get them cleaned up easy for you`
`21:08.47`	`Epyon`	`Constitution, yeah, I thought about it for a time to use it to compile linux versions of my games.`
`21:08.51`	`Constitution`	`yeah`
`21:08.55`	`Constitution`	`never heard of anyone running bzflag in bochs, though`
`21:08.58`	`JeffM2501`	`Erroneous will use VC8 at home, but he's mostly nix, I do all my stuff in 7.1`
`21:09.07`	`Epyon`	`Constitution, never was inclined enought to try it tough.`
`21:09.10`	`JeffM2501`	`guess I need to do VC8 versons of all the plugin solutions.`
`21:09.31`	`Epyon`	`JeffM2501, plugin solutions?`
`21:11.16`	`JeffM2501`	`VC uses a 2 project files`
`21:11.31`	`Erroneous`	`Epyon: where did you read that our mingw support was experimental?`
`21:11.33`	`JeffM2501`	`one that has the files to build for a specific module ( lib, exe, whatever ) and then a "solution" file`
`21:11.42`	`JeffM2501`	`that pulls it all together`
`21:11.43`	`Erroneous`	`mingw works great, it's crosscompiling with mingw that is experimental`
`21:12.30`	`tupone`	`it was experimental`
`21:12.51`	`tupone`	`after it worked great, it is no more`
`21:12.51`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah you got it to work didn't you?, from linux -> windows right?`
`21:12.56`	`tupone`	`yep`
`21:13.01`	`JeffM2501`	`can you do windows -> linux?`
`21:13.24`	`Erroneous`	`yeah, tupone is the man to ask about crosscompiling, I prefer to build on the same platform I run on :)`
`21:13.27`	`tupone`	`I dunno, window is verbotten here`
`21:13.56`	`blast007`	`JeffM2501: VMWare Server is free`
`21:14.22`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh cool`
`21:14.31`	`brlcad`	`he's a windows user?`
`21:14.38`	`Erroneous`	`heh`
`21:14.42`	`*** mode/#bzflag [-o brlcad] by JeffM2501`
`21:14.47`	`Constitution`	`ROFL`
`21:14.48`	`JeffM2501`	`-2`
`21:14.49`	`blast007`	`hehe`
`21:14.55`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`21:14.59`	`Erroneous`	`heh, that was more like -@ :)`
`21:15.00`	`Epyon`	`?`
`21:15.44`	`JeffM2501`	`inside joke`
`21:15.44`	`brlcad`	`Erroneous: or -o`
`21:15.44`	`Epyon`	`oh, ok ;]`
`21:15.46`	`brlcad`	`wrong side of the keyboard`
`21:15.46`	`Erroneous`	`-0? :)`
`21:19.27`	`*** join/#bzflag cosmol (n=dave@71.86.121.200)`
`21:19.38`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o brlcad] by ChanServ`
`21:23.31`	`RatOmeter`	`gah. I've been battling BZFlag thru VC8 too long today. Gonna give it a rest.`
`21:23.49`	`RatOmeter`	`It doesn't help that I'm a n00b at both`
`21:30.33`	`*** join/#bzflag Hannibal (n=Hannibal@pool-71-113-209-249.herntx.dsl-w.verizon.net)`
`21:36.18`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`21:36.18`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`21:37.49`	`JeffM2501`	`purple_cow / brlcad / Erroneous svn wouldn't let me move a file`
`21:38.02`	`Erroneous`	`why not?`
`21:38.12`	`JeffM2501`	`gave a 403`
`21:38.16`	`JeffM2501`	`forbiden`
`21:38.23`	`JeffM2501`	`I was trying to move GameKeeper.h to include`
`21:39.07`	`Erroneous`	`why?`
`21:39.33`	`Erroneous`	`no other project depends on bzfs`
`21:39.50`	`Erroneous`	`unless you were planning on moving the cxx too`
`21:40.36`	`JeffM2501`	`gamekeeper has the TCP mutex`
`21:40.55`	`JeffM2501`	`Idon't need to move it now`
`21:41.02`	`JeffM2501`	`but mostly I was woried that it would not let me`
`21:41.05`	`Erroneous`	`my point is, you can only use it from bzfs :)`
`21:41.10`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`21:41.12`	`JeffM2501`	`that I get now`
`21:41.19`	`JeffM2501`	`so I'm not going to move it for that reason`
`21:41.21`	`Erroneous`	`ok`
`21:41.30`	`JeffM2501`	`but still SVN would not let me, in the case where I had a valid reason`
`21:41.36`	`brlcad`	`it just knew best`
`21:41.41`	`JeffM2501`	`I odn't think the 403 was cusSVN knew`
`21:41.42`	`JeffM2501`	`:)`
`21:42.08`	`purple_cow`	`all your svn commands actually get forwarded to committee for approval`
`21:42.14`	`JeffM2501`	`heh`
`21:42.18`	`brlcad`	`ideas.txt to doc/?`
`21:42.24`	`JeffM2501`	`sure`
`21:43.10`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r13998 10/trunk/bzflag/ (doc/ideas.txt ideas.txt): move ideas.txt to doc`
`21:43.10`	`JeffM2501`	`after it would not let me, I looked into it more, if I need to I'll move the actual muttex func into net, and then just call it from both places`
`21:43.19`	`JeffM2501`	`guess it was just my client then`
`21:43.45`	`Erroneous`	`yup, even preserved history and everything`
`21:43.58`	`JeffM2501`	`that's what I was trying to do`
`21:44.11`	`JeffM2501`	`I did the SVN move thing`
`21:44.15`	`Erroneous`	`yeah, I know`
`21:44.33`	`Erroneous`	`just making sure my client wasn't doing some funky delete/checkin thing`
`21:44.51`	`JeffM2501`	`it's cool that it can do that :)`
`21:45.32`	`Erroneous`	`and it's missing a major feature...it can't diff recursively :S`
`21:47.32`	`*** join/#bzflag Dessy (n=Dessy@88.134.210.139)`
`21:47.38`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * r13999 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/GameKeeper.h src/bzfs/GameKeeper.h): test move from src/bzfs to include`
`21:47.54`	`Erroneous`	`yup, it's just JeffM2501`
`21:48.01`	`JeffM2501`	`cool`
`21:48.07`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14000 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/GameKeeper.h src/bzfs/GameKeeper.h): move it back`
`21:48.48`	`brlcad`	`woot`
`21:48.50`	`brlcad`	`14000`
`21:49.12`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r14001 10/trunk/bzflag/doc/ideas.txt: notes on what else to do with BZFS network connections, so it is not forgotten.`
`21:49.31`	`JeffM2501`	`and that's from a baja fresh :)`
`21:53.56`	`spldart`	`heh`
`22:00.20`	`spldart`	`JeffM on wireless or something....?`
`22:01.49`	`Erroneous`	`considering that he recently got a new laptop`
`22:01.59`	`Erroneous`	`and is not at work today (the bastard)`
`22:03.28`	`spldart`	`Maybe he needs a real ant....`
`22:03.31`	`spldart`	`http://spldart.opencombat.net:92/newwg.jpg`
`22:03.42`	`spldart`	`LOL`
`22:04.47`	`*** join/#bzflag onami (n=jjjj@89.136.135.138)`
`22:04.53`	`Erroneous`	`mmm, cantenna`
`22:05.26`	`spldart`	`The funnel was added last weekend... 3db as reported by the card and definitely getting conn's further out :-0`
`22:05.52`	`spldart`	`14 db over stock little ant`
`22:06.18`	`spldart`	`I can play bzflag on any lan for 1/2 mile in any dir LOLOL`
`22:07.40`	`onami`	`hello, how does bzadmin communicate with bzfs, how does the protocol look like ?`
`22:07.40`	`L4m3r`	`CBG: hey, there's a use for your ibook`
`22:07.57`	`delusional_`	`ants and funnels... founds like a trap`
`22:08.04`	`L4m3r`	`G4 + thin case + metal shell = griddle!`
`22:08.16`	`L4m3r`	`now go make me some pancakes`
`22:08.29`	`spldart`	`mmmMMMMmmm waffles`
`22:08.29`	`delusional_`	`thumper has the syrup`
`22:08.34`	`CBG`	`I probably could have.`
`22:08.47`	`CBG`	`But it's busy cooling down atm, L4m3r.`
`22:11.17`	`Constitution`	`L4m3r: I don't believe iBooks have metal cases... would hate for the plastic or whatever to put toxins in your pancakes :-P`
`22:12.03`	`L4m3r`	`oh really? was it just the pbooks that had the aluminum?`
`22:13.47`	`spldart`	`my pana toughbook has some magnesium :confused:`
`22:13.48`	`blast007`	`onami: it uses the same protocol as the full graphical client`
`22:14.22`	`L4m3r`	`magnesium is fun`
`22:14.25`	`blast007`	`just a limited subset of that, since it doesn't send any positional updates and the like`
`22:14.26`	`restorer`	`yup, my TiBook could have fried eggs`
`22:14.43`	`restorer`	`but the powder coating still made it feel a bit like plastic`
`22:15.14`	`restorer`	`Titanium doesn't have the same nice metal feel of unfinished aluminum or somesuch`
`22:19.29`	`onami`	`blast007: can you please describe the protocol a little ?`
`22:21.03`	`JBdiGriz`	`It would take a while to fry eggs on this 17" right now. Battery 87.8F Processor Bottomside 111.2F`
`22:21.19`	`JBdiGriz`	`I hope you like your eggs runny.`
`22:21.43`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`22:21.43`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`22:23.29`	`blast007`	`onami: it's a binary protocol`
`22:23.40`	`blast007`	`first is the date length, then the packet type, then the data`
`22:24.19`	`blast007`	`data*`
`22:24.37`	`blast007`	`other than that, I don't have it memorized or anything ;D`
`22:24.59`	`blast007`	`there is a file (maybe Protocol.h) that lists the various message types`
`22:25.29`	`blast007`	`there is also some protocol documentation somewhere, but don't expect it to be fully up-to-date`
`22:25.43`	`onami`	`so it is much lighter than http (it deals with shorter messages)`
`22:26.07`	`blast007`	`yeah`
`22:26.15`	`blast007`	`I think the max length is set at 1024`
`22:26.34`	`JeffM2501`	`for our internal messages?`
`22:26.38`	`blast007`	`yeah`
`22:26.51`	`JeffM2501`	`smaller iirc`
`22:26.57`	`blast007`	`k`
`22:27.00`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm in there now so I'll check`
`22:27.05`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm redoing most of it :)`
`22:27.34`	`JeffM2501`	`no your right`
`22:27.35`	`JeffM2501`	`1 k`
`22:27.35`	`onami`	`this is a reason why the web admin should be kept out of bzfs`
`22:27.47`	`JeffM2501`	`BINGO`
`22:28.06`	`JeffM2501`	`tho we now have a way to hook into our listen socket for non bz connections`
`22:28.10`	`JeffM2501`	`and pass that off to a plugin`
`22:28.24`	`onami`	`parsing http messages (which are longer and more complex) slows the select loop`
`22:28.24`	`JeffM2501`	`or even handle it via a normal server event`
`22:28.53`	`JeffM2501`	`we'll hand the data off to whoever`
`22:29.11`	`JeffM2501`	`and they canfire off a thread, parse it, then fire back a responce`
`22:29.16`	`JeffM2501`	`and we'll chunk it out back to them`
`22:29.24`	`JeffM2501`	`so it dosn't slow the loop down too bad`
`22:29.57`	`onami`	`"too bad" :)`
`22:29.58`	`JeffM2501`	`or make a plugin that interfaces to php or apache, or whatever and handle the connection on another port`
`22:30.15`	`JeffM2501`	`the only way to do it on our game port is to have our listener grab the data`
`22:30.21`	`JeffM2501`	`after that you can do what you want with it :)`
`22:30.27`	`JeffM2501`	`pass it to another app, or whatever`
`22:31.21`	`onami`	`I need to study the plugin mechanism more`
`22:31.26`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm doing a generic listener class now for bzfs, so that anyone can listen on a non game port if they want`
`22:31.31`	`JeffM2501`	`it's just a dynamic lib`
`22:31.41`	`JeffM2501`	`it can install callbacks for events`
`22:31.49`	`JeffM2501`	`and then call stuff back in BZFS`
`22:31.58`	`JeffM2501`	`or it can spawn it's own thread and do whatever it needs`
`22:32.12`	`JeffM2501`	`there is a tick event that is called everytime thru our main loop`
`22:32.15`	`Dessy`	`jeffm you write very much :P i see only jeffm`
`22:32.21`	`JeffM2501`	`?`
`22:33.15`	`Dessy`	`doh, u dont understand me`
`22:33.16`	`onami`	`keep on writing please :)`
`22:33.37`	`Dessy`	`i must learn english...`
`22:34.02`	`JeffM2501`	`over the past couple days I've be reworking the BZFS network handling stuff to make for easy hooks into it from other parts of the code, or plugins`
`22:34.10`	`JeffM2501`	`our API is not just for plugins`
`22:34.14`	`JeffM2501`	`other parts of the code use it too`
`22:34.19`	`JeffM2501`	`like the event handlers`
`22:34.48`	`JeffM2501`	`it just also happens to be the same API that is exported to plug-ins`
`22:34.59`	`JeffM2501`	`to make it easy to do things internaly or externaly`
`22:35.29`	`JeffM2501`	`onami, you were looking at doing it as an external process right?`
`22:36.01`	`onami`	`those were my thoughts`
`22:36.16`	`JeffM2501`	`how were you going to get the data to/from the game server?`
`22:36.21`	`JeffM2501`	`over the bzfs protocoll?`
`22:36.57`	`onami`	`you mean from the web admin process to the bzfs process ?`
`22:37.00`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`22:37.11`	`onami`	`probably through a socket`
`22:37.15`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`22:37.25`	`onami`	`since it is the most platform independent way`
`22:37.33`	`JeffM2501`	`bzfs connecting to your web admin as a host?`
`22:38.00`	`JeffM2501`	`or web conecting to BZFS?`
`22:38.13`	`onami`	`either way is fine`
`22:38.16`	`JeffM2501`	`ok`
`22:38.28`	`JeffM2501`	`I have it set up now to where you can connect to BZFS externaly`
`22:38.29`	`onami`	`this needs to be discussed more`
`22:38.32`	`JeffM2501`	`not as a player`
`22:38.37`	`JeffM2501`	`and get handed off to a plguing`
`22:38.50`	`JeffM2501`	`so you could make a plug-in that gets all the data you need, and sends it back`
`22:38.54`	`JeffM2501`	`and does any actions you need`
`22:39.01`	`JeffM2501`	`so you don't have to deal with the bzfs protocoll`
`22:39.15`	`JBdiGriz`	`a plguing? How does it feel to be handed off to a plguing?`
`22:39.24`	`JeffM2501`	`plug-in`
`22:39.30`	`JeffM2501`	`small keyboard`
`22:39.35`	`purple_cow`	`so when does soc start?`
`22:39.44`	`JeffM2501`	`we tell them on the 11th`
`22:39.50`	`JeffM2501`	`then they got 2 weeks before they "Start"`
`22:40.07`	`JBdiGriz`	`It started already. At least I believe I was working on it. :)`
`22:40.26`	`JeffM2501`	`onami, I am also working on a method to let a plugin ( or an internal hook ) connect to any other socket`
`22:40.34`	`JeffM2501`	`so you'll have both methods avaialable to you`
`22:40.37`	`JBdiGriz`	`Or are you asking when the accepted applicants will get paid?`
`22:42.14`	`JeffM2501`	`onami, the big issue I think your going to have is being able to call the "admin" functions from anywhere`
`22:42.35`	`JeffM2501`	`most of our current admin functions are done via a chat based "\" command`
`22:42.48`	`JeffM2501`	`but they all assume there is a player record for them`
`22:42.56`	`JeffM2501`	`since only bzadmin has done them in the past`
`22:43.17`	`JeffM2501`	`in your case you may not want a real player record, so the functionality of those slash commands will have to be put into a funciton`
`22:43.20`	`JeffM2501`	`that dons't need a player`
`22:43.35`	`JeffM2501`	`I've started it for some of the common funcitons ( kick and ban ) but there are more that need to be done`
`22:44.01`	`JeffM2501`	`sending chat into the game isn't a big deal, now that we have server side players, you can just add one of those, and have it get/send chat`
`22:45.20`	`purple_cow`	`JBdiGriz: I was wondering when the students actually start working in earnest`
`22:45.32`	`purple_cow`	`'cuz until they know that they got a slot, they're not going to be spending 8 hours a day on the project`
`22:45.34`	`purple_cow`	`unfortunately`
`22:45.46`	`JeffM2501`	`they will know there spot by the 11th`
`22:45.51`	`JeffM2501`	`we get our slot count "soon"`
`22:46.01`	`JeffM2501`	`then we have till the 11th to asign`
`22:47.49`	`onami`	`JeffM2501: it would handle unwanted denial of service instead of the game server`
`22:48.21`	`JeffM2501`	`so you want a second port then`
`22:48.23`	`onami`	`<PROTECTED>`
`22:48.24`	`onami`	`yes`
`22:48.28`	`JeffM2501`	`k`
`22:48.48`	`JeffM2501`	`well then you don't need the BZFlag protocoll now`
`22:48.55`	`*** join/#bzflag CBG (n=CBG@cpc4-stme1-0-0-cust103.cdif.cable.ntl.com)`
`22:49.02`	`JeffM2501`	`you can just open your own socket connection and pass your own format data between them`
`22:49.08`	`onami`	`I was wondering what I can reuse`
`22:49.15`	`JeffM2501`	`that'll give you m ore info then BZFS will anway`
`22:49.28`	`JeffM2501`	`well you've got the socket interface you can reuse now`
`22:49.34`	`JeffM2501`	`since it's just a callback you install`
`22:49.45`	`JeffM2501`	`and you can get a lot of the admin info you need from our API`
`22:49.53`	`JeffM2501`	`so you don't have to deal with our protocoll`
`22:49.59`	`JeffM2501`	`I'd prefer a non proto method`
`22:50.13`	`JeffM2501`	`so we can change proto and not have to change the external app as well`
`22:50.55`	`onami`	`so would I, this would make the game independent from the web admin`
`22:51.01`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`22:51.17`	`onami`	`but how about the consistency ?`
`22:51.24`	`JeffM2501`	`?`
`22:51.34`	`onami`	`bzadmin already uses the game protocol`
`22:51.42`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah, only cus that was the ONLY way`
`22:51.47`	`onami`	`:)`
`22:51.50`	`JeffM2501`	`it was made before all this others stuff`
`22:52.02`	`JeffM2501`	`the entire point of the project is that BZADMIN isn't good enough`
`22:52.11`	`JeffM2501`	`there is no need to support legacy behavor`
`22:52.28`	`JeffM2501`	`as the new stuff can't be used on old anyway ( and should not be )`
`22:52.36`	`JeffM2501`	`and it'd be a mess :)`
`22:53.19`	`onami`	`so one of my goals would be to design the new admin comm protocol`
`22:53.27`	`JeffM2501`	`my prefrence would be a plugin that you drop into bzfs that does the bzfs side, then have your admin app connecto to that`
`22:53.57`	`JeffM2501`	`then if somone does a bzadmin using your new protocoll later, they can just connect to the server with a plugin as well`
`22:54.26`	`onami`	`sounds good`
`22:54.29`	`JeffM2501`	`and we build that plug-in by default`
`22:55.30`	`Erroneous`	`onami: you should probably involve Tim in any discussion of the architecture, he has, well, fairly strong opinions`
`22:55.32`	`JeffM2501`	`some may say I want everything as a plug-in, but I do think this would be good to be external`
`22:55.44`	`Erroneous`	`at least be prepared to defend your decisions :)`
`22:55.59`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm not a fan of bulding stuff inside BZ, but if you wanted to, you could use the same connection hook internaly`
`22:56.22`	`JeffM2501`	`then I can ninja plug-iniffy it when tim isn't looking :)`
`22:56.31`	`Erroneous`	`heh`
`22:58.23`	`onami`	`http://www.bzflag.org/doxygen is unavailable :(`
`22:58.40`	`JeffM2501`	`where'd you find a link to that?`
`22:58.49`	`JeffM2501`	`and why wasn't it updated to the new wiki?`
`22:59.16`	`onami`	`there is a link in the left side menu`
`22:59.20`	`JeffM2501`	`our doxygen docs are not currnet`
`22:59.22`	`onami`	`on bzflag.org`
`22:59.22`	`JeffM2501`	`ther is?`
`22:59.24`	`JeffM2501`	`damn`
`22:59.28`	`onami`	`:)`
`23:02.40`	`L4m3r`	`brlcad: ping`
`23:03.11`	`brlcad`	`L4m3r: pong`
`23:03.20`	`L4m3r`	`got the GSoC message`
`23:03.52`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r14002 10/trunk/web/document.php: we don't have a doxygen dir, so don't link to one.`
`23:03.54`	`L4m3r`	`everything looks good... if you don't mind me asking, how many slots are there, and how many applicants are still in the running?`
`23:04.05`	`JeffM2501`	`we don't know yet`
`23:04.35`	`L4m3r`	`ah`
`23:05.07`	`Constitution`	`will the applicants who aren't accepted get anything more than a "no, you didn't make it"? for instance, will they be told whether they were ranked up or down overall, and will they receive any other comments?`
`23:05.19`	`ts`	`brlcad: Students will work on svn trunk, correct?`
`23:05.25`	`Constitution`	`just curious how it will work out`
`23:05.45`	`JeffM2501`	`ts, probably a branch based of trunk`
`23:06.14`	`*** topic/#bzflag by brlcad -> http://BZFlag.org \|\| http://cia.navi.cx/stats/project/BZFlag \|\| http://my.BZFlag.org/wiki/index.php/Getting_Help \|\| http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 \|\| http://ohloh.net/projects/189 \|\| http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/bzflag/bzflag \|\| New WIKI! http://my.bzflag.org/w/ \|\| Migrated from CVS to SVN: http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN \|\| GSoC preliminary slot allocation results are now in: five`
`23:06.31`	`JeffM2501`	`see it helps when I look ;)`
`23:06.32`	`L4m3r`	`ok then, just checking in. if you need anything more, please ping... in the room but not watching :)`
`23:06.38`	`JeffM2501`	`called it !!!`
`23:06.43`	`Constitution`	`wow`
`23:06.57`	`ts`	`Perhaps it would be a good idea to put instructions on the gsoc page how to check out the last working revision`
`23:07.24`	`L4m3r`	`or you could just link the svn page everyone else uses, assuming it exists`
`23:07.42`	`JeffM2501`	`ts, or just a link to the source wiki page that has that info :)`
`23:07.48`	`JeffM2501`	`it exists`
`23:07.52`	`JeffM2501`	`and has all the info`
`23:08.12`	`Epyon`	`Five :)`
`23:08.37`	`ts`	`no`
`23:08.54`	`Epyon`	`no?`
`23:09.10`	`ts`	`It doesn't have all the info`
`23:09.41`	`JeffM2501`	`what is it missing?`
`23:09.47`	`*** join/#bzflag cosmos (n=cosmos@borrego.hepcat.org)`
`23:10.08`	`cosmos`	`anyone know what -speedtol should be set as? im getting alot of players kicked for too fast errors`
`23:10.19`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03atupone * r14003 10/branches/v2_0_cs_branch/bzflag/ (11 files in 4 dirs): Rewrite Texture Manager using CS`
`23:10.25`	`*** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n)`
`23:10.43`	`ts`	`How to check out a specific revision ( 13962 in our case ) using command line`
`23:11.05`	`JeffM2501`	`you think thats common?`
`23:11.19`	`JeffM2501`	`to get a non taged revision?`
`23:11.28`	`ts`	`I don't think the 0048 proto will be fixed till 11th`
`23:11.43`	`JeffM2501`	`then we'll make them a tag with it`
`23:11.46`	`JeffM2501`	`branch realy`
`23:11.55`	`JeffM2501`	`they need soething to commit BACK to`
`23:12.14`	`JeffM2501`	`and thanks for the vote of confidence :/`
`23:12.21`	`JeffM2501`	`you could fire up a debuger and help`
`23:12.37`	`ts`	`and I have no idea of how the joining process works`
`23:12.46`	`JeffM2501`	`then never a beter time to learn`
`23:12.50`	`ts`	`as well as other problems`
`23:12.56`	`*** join/#bzflag mastro (n=mastro@adsl-ull-189-168.44-151.net24.it)`
`23:13.36`	`JeffM2501`	`well no mater what we won't be having them do a numeric revision`
`23:13.37`	`ts`	`Can't take the time away from my daily business :/`
`23:13.38`	`JeffM2501`	`that's just silly`
`23:13.45`	`ts`	`ok`
`23:14.26`	`purple_cow`	`svn co -r13962 ...`
`23:14.50`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah we won't be having the SoCers do that`
`23:14.51`	`JeffM2501`	`:)`
`23:14.57`	`JeffM2501`	`we can tag for them`
`23:15.00`	`JeffM2501`	`or just fix the bugs`
`23:15.27`	`purple_cow`	`we're just going to branch from HEAD, right?`
`23:15.27`	`JeffM2501`	`I've been trying to dupe it`
`23:15.33`	`JeffM2501`	`that was the plan yeah`
`23:15.40`	`JeffM2501`	`and do merges to keep them on there toes :)`
`23:16.18`	`JeffM2501`	`tho stuff like the engine work will have to happen in it's own branch`
`23:16.26`	`brlcad`	`ts: the students don't start for like 7 weeks`
`23:16.26`	`JeffM2501`	`as it'll walk over other stuff`
`23:16.48`	`rob1n`	`yeah, it's still spring, guys`
`23:16.49`	`purple_cow`	`it's summer here already, apparently`
`23:16.59`	`JeffM2501`	`tho I wonder if we do get CS guy, do we make them do it in head, not 2.0.x`
`23:16.59`	`brlcad`	`so doesn't matter if 0048 working by 11th`
`23:17.07`	`JBdiGriz`	`If it were summer, leopard would be available. :D`
`23:17.29`	`brlcad`	`JBdiGriz: good point`
`23:17.44`	`ts`	`We have summer here ;)`
`23:17.44`	`brlcad`	`and stargate would be running`
`23:17.47`	`JeffM2501`	`thank god I don't have to blow 130+ on that anymore :)`
`23:18.07`	`rob1n`	`brlcad, it was snowing??`
`23:18.25`	`ts`	`Antartica? o.O`
`23:18.29`	`JBdiGriz`	`JeffM2501: I didn't realize that Apple was forcing you to spend money on anything. ;)`
`23:18.37`	`JeffM2501`	`they arn't`
`23:18.40`	`JeffM2501`	`but I'd get laughed at`
`23:18.43`	`brlcad`	`rob1n: yep`
`23:18.43`	`JeffM2501`	`if I didn't get it`
`23:18.53`	`rob1n`	`brlcad, where do you live??`
`23:18.55`	`JeffM2501`	`and I'd be more productive right?`
`23:19.03`	`brlcad`	`rob1n: maryland, usa`
`23:19.07`	`rob1n`	`brlcad, whoa`
`23:19.12`	`Erroneous`	`JeffM2501: the mac guys will laugh at you anyway :P`
`23:19.16`	`JeffM2501`	`indeed`
`23:19.23`	`JeffM2501`	`but they lost market share, I don't mind :)`
`23:19.27`	`Erroneous`	`heh`
`23:19.29`	`JBdiGriz`	`JeffM2501: That would be hard to imagine you being less productive on the mac.`
`23:19.36`	`brlcad`	`weather dropped 50 degrees (F) in two days`
`23:19.39`	`JeffM2501`	`less then I COULD be ;)`
`23:19.49`	`JeffM2501`	`10.5 is suposed to be magic`
`23:19.56`	`rob1n`	`the time machine is meh`
`23:20.05`	`JeffM2501`	`cures cancer right?`
`23:20.09`	`JBdiGriz`	`If we're talking about potential productivity, we would all be millionaires.`
`23:20.10`	`*** part/#bzflag cosmos (n=cosmos@borrego.hepcat.org)`
`23:20.25`	`ts`	`JeffM2501: From what I've seen and read before, 10.5 will not have much big changes`
`23:20.30`	`JeffM2501`	`well I don't own the mac anymore`
`23:20.42`	`ts`	`a new development environment, but that's all`
`23:20.43`	`JeffM2501`	`ts, then will it be worth 130$?`
`23:20.49`	`ts`	`no, it will not`
`23:21.03`	`JeffM2501`	`they set a final price?`
`23:21.07`	`JBdiGriz`	`ts: From what has been displayed, 10.5 will have some very nice changes.`
`23:21.20`	`Erroneous`	`"will it be worth it" always depends on "for whom"`
`23:21.26`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`23:21.27`	`ts`	`like the 200€ for Windows® Vista Ultimate Edition`
`23:21.37`	`JeffM2501`	`some mac users will pay for poop in a white box :)`
`23:21.49`	`Erroneous`	`ooh,k purdy white box`
`23:22.08`	`ts`	`JeffM2501: Heh, I think the Mac mini is a good set top box for tv..`
`23:22.10`	`spldart`	`sputter`
`23:22.11`	`rob1n`	`~seen bryjen`
`23:23.15`	`ibot`	`bryjen <n=bryjen@2002:4cb1:b973:0:0:0:0:1> was last seen on IRC in channel ##essy, 3d 19h 22m 31s ago, saying: '~spell humourous'.`
`23:23.17`	`spldart`	`vista`
`23:23.17`	`spldart`	`cough`
`23:23.17`	`JeffM2501`	`at least my vista was "free" :)`
`23:23.17`	`spldart`	`heh`
`23:23.17`	`rob1n`	`~ping`
`23:23.28`	`ibot`	`pong`
`23:23.28`	`spldart`	`company purchase or the beta?`
`23:23.28`	`JeffM2501`	`came with the machine`
`23:23.28`	`ts`	`You payed it with the lappy already`
`23:23.28`	`spldart`	`ah`
`23:23.28`	`ts`	`so it wasn't free`
`23:23.28`	`rob1n`	`ibot, ping`
`23:23.33`	`ibot`	`pong`
`23:23.33`	`rob1n`	`...`
`23:23.33`	`JeffM2501`	`ts, you can't buy a mac with out OS X so same thing right back at ya!`
`23:23.36`	`JBdiGriz`	`It was free, the machine was more expensive than it should have been.`
`23:23.36`	`JeffM2501`	`I could have goten a nekiid dell`
`23:23.36`	`JeffM2501`	`can't get a naked mac`
`23:23.41`	`JBdiGriz`	`My original Mac was free, but I paid a fair amount for MacWrite and MacPaint`
`23:23.47`	`spldart`	`mmmmMMMmmmm nekiid`
`23:24.02`	`rob1n`	`JeffM2501, of course you can't... if you wanted a "naked mac" just buy a PC without windows...`
`23:24.06`	`ts`	`Microsoft charges around 200€ for ultimate..so you bought it`
`23:24.18`	`rob1n`	`JeffM2501, the reason why i would buy a mac is for the OS`
`23:24.21`	`rob1n`	`the parts i can get cheaper`
`23:24.33`	`ts`	`JeffM2501: The included OS on the new Macs is something the users pay for, too`
`23:24.51`	`ts`	`and the Apple hardware is indeed rather bad`
`23:25.22`	`rob1n`	`yep`
`23:25.33`	`rob1n`	`nvidia 7300GT's for their flagship machine???`
`23:25.54`	`ts`	`pfft..that's not the biggest problem.`
`23:26.02`	`purple_cow`	`you kids and your fancy graphics adapters`
`23:26.16`	`rob1n`	`purple_cow, graphics cards, technically ;)`
`23:26.40`	`ts`	`If you want to be able to change graphics card and don't buy a new display you need a 4 core xeon system...crazyness`
`23:26.42`	`purple_cow`	`it's not necessarily on a card`
`23:26.43`	`rob1n`	`i think they [hopefully] have pcix16`
`23:27.06`	`rob1n`	`but the macbooks are complete crap graphics-wise`
`23:27.11`	`rob1n`	`intel express chipset?`
`23:27.13`	`purple_cow`	`to be fair, I'd love one of the new 8-core boxes under my desk at work ;-)`
`23:27.32`	`Constitution`	`rob1n: so much more the incentive to buy a MacBook Pro :-)`
`23:27.41`	`rob1n`	`purple_cow, true, but is there any software that can make having 8 cores worth the monumentous price?`
`23:27.45`	`ts`	`purple_cow: Heh, I would love one here, too but the price...`
`23:27.50`	`rob1n`	`Constitution, i'd rather get a much cheaper PC`
`23:28.02`	`rob1n`	`the macbook is the only mac i would get`
`23:28.08`	`rob1n`	`all the other ones i can't justify the cost`
`23:28.18`	`JeffM2501`	`if I could cut 150$ of the price of a mac that'd make the mini a beter choice`
`23:28.24`	`JeffM2501`	`but yeah, get a PC :)`
`23:28.28`	`brlcad`	`rob1n: ehm.. lots of softare takes advantage of multiple cores fully`
`23:28.38`	`JBdiGriz`	`Have you ever compiled with multiple processors? If you need the horsepower, it's worthwhile.`
`23:29.12`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah multi core compiling is great`
`23:29.12`	`rob1n`	`how many regular users out there compile?`
`23:29.19`	`JeffM2501`	`distributed network compiling is even better :)`
`23:29.28`	`JeffM2501`	`even for regular use, dual cores help`
`23:29.32`	`JBdiGriz`	`I'm not a regular user. You were asking about any software that makes it worthwhile.`
`23:29.35`	`JeffM2501`	`one to run the OS, one to run background crap`
`23:29.46`	`JeffM2501`	`system just feels faster`
`23:29.58`	`JeffM2501`	`I can browse the web, and copy a CD :)`
`23:30.14`	`ts`	`and 15W/core in idle mode`
`23:30.58`	`ts`	`cheap with 8 cores and doing nothing`
`23:31.22`	`JBdiGriz`	`I don't buy machines to do nothing. I but machines to get work accomplished.`
`23:31.31`	`JBdiGriz`	`s/but/buy/`
`23:31.53`	`JBdiGriz`	`I'm a lot more expensive in idle mode than my machines.`
`23:32.06`	`rob1n`	`which reminds me i want to download the bzflag svn and compile it`
`23:32.09`	`spldart`	`smp on one die?`
`23:32.12`	`ts`	`yep, at work, that may be the case`
`23:32.32`	`JeffM2501`	`cus the old one got thrown away`
`23:32.52`	`JBdiGriz`	`Maybe they will hire the old Dell dude.`
`23:32.59`	`JeffM2501`	`that'd be funny`
`23:33.04`	`brlcad`	`more like he gets a new wardrobe`
`23:33.07`	`JeffM2501`	`"dude I'm a MAC!!!"`
`23:33.26`	`JeffM2501`	`brlcad, no impliung that it was an imac, and had to be tossed to be upgrade ;)`
`23:33.43`	`JeffM2501`	`"well see, I wanted a better video card, but there wasn't a slot..."`
`23:34.15`	`JBdiGriz`	`How about the Linux chick?`
`23:34.20`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`23:34.33`	`ts`	`Do you really see those commercials in TV?`
`23:34.37`	`JeffM2501`	`only if she shaves the beard first`
`23:34.54`	`ts`	`Apple Germany is busy doing absolutly no advertising etc`
`23:35.04`	`purple_cow`	`those commercials are hilariously contrived`
`23:35.09`	`JeffM2501`	`I'll give apple one thing, they do let you confgiure up one expensive machine`
`23:35.16`	`purple_cow`	`also, they don't have john hodgman :(`
`23:35.41`	`JBdiGriz`	`I have only seen the Novell commercials on youtube so far.`
`23:35.51`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't even know if I could config a machine over 10k on dells site`
`23:36.20`	`JBdiGriz`	`JeffM2501: I have always been able to configure up some expensive machines.`
`23:37.10`	`JBdiGriz`	`http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cldeHjFig_c&mode=related&search=`
`23:38.15`	`JeffM2501`	`that's a good one`
`23:39.30`	`lodxcol`	`http://blog.wired.com/expensivepcs/2007/01/dell_alienware_.html`
`23:39.48`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh yeah I had forgoten about alienware`
`23:40.21`	`lodxcol`	`I couldn't find the link to the page on that desktop on dell's site, but there it is`
`23:41.27`	`JeffM2501`	`yay, I duped the crash on exit`
`23:42.09`	`JeffM2501`	`hmm somone is deleting handlers`
`23:42.13`	`brlcad`	`we ordered a bunch of the latest alienware's.. quite disappointed`
`23:42.39`	`JeffM2501`	`they are a joke company`
`23:42.41`	`brlcad`	`performance was fine, but every single one was put together wrong`
`23:43.08`	`brlcad`	`cards not fully seated, or not working outright, bad memory`
`23:44.27`	`rob1n`	`really?`
`23:44.33`	`rob1n`	`i've never known alienware to be that bad`
`23:45.04`	`*** join/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.109.176.242)`
`23:45.57`	`JeffM2501`	`I think I foudn the crash on exit`
`23:51.46`	`*** join/#bzflag amcnabb (n=amcnabb@c-71-195-212-252.hsd1.ma.comcast.net)`
`23:52.34`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r14004 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx:`
`23:52.34`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: increase the buffered message outgoing chunk to 2k.`
`23:52.35`	`CIA-17`	`BZFlag: don't manually delete net handlers when dropping them, just mark them for purge.`
`23:52.42`	`JeffM2501`	`that should help the crash on exit`
`23:52.52`	`JeffM2501`	`I can conect from my laptop to my desktop just ifne`
`23:52.54`	`JeffM2501`	`fine`
`23:53.02`	`JeffM2501`	`anyone have a current client that they want to try to connect to me with?`
`23:54.56`	`*** join/#bzflag RatOmeter (n=RatOmete@r74-195-239-124.stl1cmta01.stwrok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net)`
`23:55.54`	`JeffM2501`	`ts were you conecting remotely or localy?`
`23:56.50`	`rob1n`	`nooo`
`23:57.01`	`rob1n`	`i have to download the developer tools for os x >.<`
`23:57.17`	`JeffM2501`	`umm yeah`
`23:59.56`	`restorer`	`unless you're on Tiger, in which case I think you have to get it from the original CD`

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