| 00:00.23 | Erroneous | welcome to the wonderful world of vista, Tannerld |
| 00:00.38 | Tannerld | didn't happen in the pre-release ;) |
| 00:00.38 | JeffM2501 | aks "teh suck" |
| 00:00.53 | JeffM2501 | probably the driver |
| 00:01.06 | Erroneous | Tannerld: they probably fixed the crashes and introduced that problem at the same time ;) |
| 00:01.24 | Erroneous | exiting bzflag caused a bsod last time I tried it on the RCs |
| 00:01.30 | Tannerld | ah |
| 00:02.50 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright (n=chatzill@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 00:03.45 | Winny | what is the CAN IRC channel? I joined the on the wiki and noone is there...? :p |
| 00:04.32 | a_meteorite | use your imagination |
| 00:04.33 | TD-Linux | I'll come to the party! |
| 00:04.34 | JeffM2501 | it's just an example |
| 00:04.37 | JeffM2501 | it's not a thing yet |
| 00:04.43 | JeffM2501 | it's just a concept at this time |
| 00:05.03 | Winny | oh... |
| 00:05.05 | a_meteorite | imagination = concept^n |
| 00:05.31 | JeffM2501 | what did you need the channel for? |
| 00:05.52 | Winny | I wanted to join it |
| 00:06.01 | JeffM2501 | as a server? |
| 00:06.06 | Winny | mhmm |
| 00:06.17 | Winny | and just_join the IRC channel |
| 00:06.21 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 00:06.36 | JeffM2501 | I'm not even 100# on the name yet :) |
| 00:07.14 | JeffM2501 | and we still have to write the rest of the plug-in |
| 00:07.29 | JeffM2501 | but hey, I can make a channel :) |
| 00:07.31 | a_meteorite | "we"? the bz devs too? |
| 00:07.59 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 00:08.10 | JeffM2501 | it is not a service provided by the project |
| 00:08.14 | JeffM2501 | it is seperate of the project |
| 00:08.19 | a_meteorite | so just you on your spare time? |
| 00:08.28 | *** join/#bzflag tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@128.187.203.59) |
| 00:08.38 | JeffM2501 | not exactly |
| 00:08.38 | TD-Linux | the core administrators, of course! |
| 00:08.41 | JeffM2501 | there will be otehrs working on it |
| 00:08.45 | JeffM2501 | them yes |
| 00:08.53 | JeffM2501 | and posiblty others |
| 00:08.53 | a_meteorite | whoever they are... |
| 00:09.03 | JeffM2501 | so far they have helped me review the deisgn |
| 00:09.15 | JeffM2501 | it's not a real thing yet, so I ain't makin no lists :) |
| 00:10.03 | Constitution | reminds me of how you teased me about the non-existent dev team for the april fool's legacy branch because I didn't list people ;-) |
| 00:10.16 | Winny | I can see it now... "zomg i wan be admin cuz im so cul!" |
| 00:10.19 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 00:10.32 | JeffM2501 | there is a section on how to become a field agent |
| 00:10.35 | JeffM2501 | in the players page |
| 00:10.47 | Winny | I am aware |
| 00:10.50 | JeffM2501 | but yeah, they won't be |
| 00:10.51 | Winny | but that is going to happen |
| 00:10.53 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 00:10.55 | TD-Linux | ooh time for some wiki editing! :P |
| 00:10.58 | Winny | hehe |
| 00:11.10 | *** join/#bzflag Theme97_ (n=Theme97@about/essy/phpwriter/Theme97) |
| 00:11.37 | a_meteorite | Winny: or the ones that say "if u dont mak me @ i will ban u everywer" |
| 00:11.41 | a_meteorite | those are my favorite |
| 00:11.50 | Winny | yeah |
| 00:11.56 | Winny | "where is everywhere" |
| 00:12.06 | TD-Linux | it kind of looks like if I apply to be a Field Agent, I might as well sign up for the army too :P |
| 00:12.08 | Winny | them: *log out* |
| 00:12.30 | a_meteorite | TD-Linux: except there's this small risk of actually dying in the army :P |
| 00:12.40 | a_meteorite | but I guess you could get a heart attack from too much bz.. |
| 00:12.51 | JeffM2501 | TD-Linux, they do have the strictest rules, yes, but that is the only way to make sure they don't abuse |
| 00:13.12 | TD-Linux | let's see, I fill out a form, I get a 'background check', and then I'm sent to training camp! w00t! |
| 00:13.17 | Winny | we need to be 17, AND approved? |
| 00:13.20 | JeffM2501 | yeah basicly :) |
| 00:13.22 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 00:13.23 | Winny | or is it OR approved |
| 00:13.27 | TD-Linux | it looks like OR. |
| 00:13.27 | JeffM2501 | or |
| 00:13.29 | JeffM2501 | yeah sorry |
| 00:13.36 | JeffM2501 | well you have to be approved no mater what |
| 00:13.41 | TD-Linux | yeah |
| 00:13.43 | Winny | so, its AND? |
| 00:13.43 | TD-Linux | I was about to say |
| 00:13.46 | a_meteorite | "maybe" 17? |
| 00:13.51 | a_meteorite | "almost"? |
| 00:13.51 | JeffM2501 | the age can be waved with aproval |
| 00:13.55 | a_meteorite | ahh |
| 00:13.59 | JeffM2501 | from the network admin |
| 00:14.00 | TD-Linux | 'special approval' for under 17? |
| 00:14.02 | Winny | horay |
| 00:14.05 | JeffM2501 | yes basicly |
| 00:14.36 | Winny | tannerld is always confused |
| 00:14.47 | JeffM2501 | if your over 17, there is no problem in applying |
| 00:14.55 | JeffM2501 | if you are under 17 then you must get approval to apply |
| 00:15.11 | JeffM2501 | non approved applications of users under 17 will be regjected off the bat |
| 00:15.22 | JeffM2501 | tho I may lower that to 16 |
| 00:15.52 | Winny | if 16 is the age to drive a car, I think you can admin a server |
| 00:16.24 | JeffM2501 | possibly, that's why I'm pondering |
| 00:16.26 | TD-Linux | LASERMANIA! |
| 00:16.33 | a_meteorite | unless you get your license taken away |
| 00:16.41 | TD-Linux | I couldn't find the IRC channel. |
| 00:16.45 | a_meteorite | then we should slap on a bz speeding ticket |
| 00:17.03 | JeffM2501 | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:17.07 | Winny | done |
| 00:17.08 | Winny | :p |
| 00:36.45 | *** join/#bzflag TyroneFHornigh (n=jbdigriz@206-15-67-5.static.twtelecom.net) |
| 00:36.46 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TyroneFHornigh] by ChanServ |
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| 00:42.33 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
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| 01:08.30 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 02:19.57 | lodxcol | I'm trying to run a test server on Windows, and I get this error: |
| 02:20.21 | lodxcol | "This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way" |
| 02:20.41 | blast007 | fun |
| 02:20.51 | blast007 | official installer? |
| 02:20.51 | lodxcol | what's that mean? |
| 02:21.05 | lodxcol | installer? I'm trying to run bzfs |
| 02:21.14 | blast007 | right, but where did you get that bzfs |
| 02:21.21 | blast007 | an official installer from SF.net? |
| 02:21.37 | lodxcol | the 2.0.9 one, you sent me a link about a week ago |
| 02:21.42 | lodxcol | should I use 2.0.8? |
| 02:21.53 | blast007 | k, from the beta.bzflag.bz/builds/2.0.x page? |
| 02:21.57 | lodxcol | yeah |
| 02:22.08 | blast007 | try 2.0.8 to rule out a bad build |
| 02:22.14 | lodxcol | alright |
| 02:22.18 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 02:22.27 | blast007 | if that works, see if a different 2.0.9 works |
| 02:22.28 | biggeruniverse | CAN: the loose confederacy of random servers with a governing council... |
| 02:22.31 | a_temp_dist | the support page for that error |
| 02:22.33 | a_temp_dist | http://support.microsoft.com/kb/884538 |
| 02:25.30 | *** join/#bzflag Quol (n=Quol@modemcable177.75-202-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 02:26.04 | biggeruniverse | I think CAN will only work in conjunction with karma. |
| 02:26.20 | a_meteorite | pw |
| 02:26.25 | lodxcol | blast007: same error with 2.0.8 |
| 02:26.32 | blast007 | fun |
| 02:26.36 | blast007 | what version of Windows? |
| 02:26.39 | lodxcol | XP SP2 |
| 02:26.46 | blast007 | hmm |
| 02:26.49 | blast007 | not sure |
| 02:26.58 | lodxcol | what's it exactly _mean_ though? |
| 02:27.10 | blast007 | probably means "it crashed" |
| 02:27.19 | lodxcol | oh |
| 02:27.21 | biggeruniverse | Sounds sadistic |
| 02:27.41 | bryjen | wouldn't crashing be the _usual_ way windows programs terminate ;) |
| 02:27.42 | biggeruniverse | "Please terminate me in an unusual way" |
| 02:28.00 | blast007 | bryjen: with a BSOD? |
| 02:28.01 | blast007 | ;) |
| 02:28.07 | bryjen | ~bzfrag biggeruniverse |
| 02:28.19 | ibot | ACTION kills biggeruniverse with a shot from his BZTank |
| 02:28.20 | biggeruniverse | what's a "Runtime" |
| 02:28.20 | biggeruniverse | ow |
| 02:28.26 | biggeruniverse | ...ow |
| 02:28.29 | blast007 | heh |
| 02:28.41 | biggeruniverse | ~lart bryjen |
| 02:28.41 | ibot | gives bryjen an extra strength ACME sleeping pill, sending bryjen to sleep for 150 years, and awakening to seven strange dwarfs and a large apple |
| 02:29.02 | biggeruniverse | that's no apple, that's a Macintosh! |
| 02:29.11 | bryjen | hmm, that's not the one i was looking for... |
| 02:29.34 | biggeruniverse | I don't know, it's pretty unusual... |
| 02:29.49 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n_ (n=rob1n@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 02:30.25 | biggeruniverse | PPC Linux! |
| 02:31.04 | bryjen | a really old distro with no X, making the most un-user-friendly mac EVAR! ;) |
| 02:31.36 | biggeruniverse | Even with X, it'd still be user-unfriendly |
| 02:31.44 | biggeruniverse | us fvwm or something |
| 02:31.46 | biggeruniverse | *use |
| 02:33.34 | biggeruniverse | ugh. finally got through reconverting bzfsAPI |
| 02:33.41 | biggeruniverse | well, yesterday |
| 02:35.32 | biggeruniverse | Can I make a recommendation to the CAN proposal? (rhetorical question, of course) |
| 02:35.52 | biggeruniverse | The CAN records keeping should be open to review by all players. |
| 02:36.09 | biggeruniverse | Or else who watches the watchers? |
| 02:37.27 | biggeruniverse | "And now I'm sitting by myself, talking to myself. That's chaos." |
| 02:37.59 | a_meteorite | ~wake biggeruniverse |
| 02:38.03 | ibot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on biggeruniverse and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 02:38.07 | biggeruniverse | GAH! |
| 02:38.27 | a_meteorite | Sitting by yourself brings inevitable sleep and talking to one's self. |
| 02:38.29 | biggeruniverse | what? I was dreaming about hover tanks exploding in mid-air... |
| 02:41.40 | biggeruniverse | Quis Custodiet Custodes Ipsos |
| 02:41.56 | a_meteorite | ? |
| 02:43.28 | biggeruniverse | It's just "who watches the watchers" |
| 02:44.48 | biggeruniverse | And I like the idea of "field agents". Can I be Smith, Agent Smith? Can I have sunglasses attached to a black-and-white tank too? |
| 02:45.35 | biggeruniverse | Then I could ban people who said "You all look the same to me" |
| 02:46.57 | biggeruniverse | I'd be *really* cool if I could take over other people's tanks... |
| 02:47.28 | a_meteorite | possible, only if you make it so :P |
| 02:47.28 | a_temp_dist | what would you do with them |
| 02:47.50 | biggeruniverse | Make them say "I like pants" |
| 02:48.34 | a_temp_dist | a_meteorite: is there a way to make another tank say "I like pants" ? |
| 02:48.54 | a_meteorite | a_temp_dist: yes, mofo uses it all the time |
| 02:49.02 | a_temp_dist | I don't believe you |
| 02:49.23 | a_meteorite | oh? how about I said I gave mofo the plugin to do it and I see it loaded and used on myself all the time? |
| 02:49.31 | a_meteorite | ... whoops |
| 02:50.35 | a_meteorite | not to mention being used on HKK and others.. |
| 02:51.03 | a_meteorite | *whoops I spilt the beans |
| 02:52.26 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=kalen@fl-69-68-17-95.dyn.embarqhsd.net) |
| 02:53.01 | a_meteorite | yo TheRedBaron |
| 02:53.13 | TheRedBaron | evening |
| 02:54.56 | biggeruniverse | actually, looks like the client could just send some other player's id, and the server is naive enough to believe it... |
| 02:55.02 | a_meteorite | biggeruniverse: not really.. |
| 02:55.19 | biggeruniverse | ya rly |
| 02:55.20 | a_meteorite | the server does checks on where it comes from, I already tried it :) |
| 02:55.34 | a_meteorite | though it doesn't check where it's coming from a plugin |
| 02:55.52 | a_meteorite | unless I missed something blindingly obvious, but I'm 99.9% sure I didn't |
| 02:56.06 | biggeruniverse | well, MessageHandler is a PlayerFirstHandler, which get's the player object by grabbing the id from the message |
| 02:56.27 | biggeruniverse | so whatever id is in the message, that's what it picks up |
| 02:56.32 | a_meteorite | :\ |
| 02:56.33 | biggeruniverse | (this is 2.1 SVN) |
| 02:56.39 | a_meteorite | oh, only looked at 2.0 |
| 02:56.56 | a_meteorite | there was a lot of class restructuring |
| 02:57.16 | biggeruniverse | then it became more naive... |
| 02:57.27 | biggeruniverse | I'd have to look at the 2.0 to be sure |
| 02:57.56 | *** join/#bzflag llodxcoll (n=justin@unaffiliated/lodxcol) |
| 02:58.08 | a_meteorite | well, Jericho (CBS) is coming on any moment... laters |
| 03:00.51 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501) |
| 03:00.51 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 03:03.40 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright_ (n=chatzill@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:05.41 | biggeruniverse | (sigh) another nuke-clear war show... |
| 03:07.48 | biggeruniverse | Honestly, why would the Chinese attack America? They know as well as anyone America will destroy itself far more effciently on its own. |
| 03:08.23 | JeffM2501 | not the place for it biggeruniverse |
| 03:12.35 | biggeruniverse | The only place that isn't for politics is sleep. But, I'll let it rest at that. ;) |
| 03:23.20 | *** join/#bzflag tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@128.187.203.59) |
| 03:50.38 | AAA_awright | I noticed GSoC was looking for a way to sent messages between servers... |
| 03:52.45 | blast007 | the "Community Messaging System" thing? |
| 03:53.12 | SportChick | ~lart TheRedBaron |
| 03:53.12 | ibot | hurls dozens of incontinent, insomniac, hungry kittens with tiny little razor-sharp claws and a wide variety of contagious intestinal parasites at TheRedBaron |
| 03:54.25 | biggeruniverse | ow |
| 03:54.36 | biggeruniverse | that hurts just to watch |
| 03:55.04 | blast007 | amazing, the bot actually responded in less than 20 seconds this time |
| 03:57.11 | blast007 | AAA_awright: anything in regards to what you noticed....? |
| 03:57.17 | blast007 | or just saying that you noticed it? |
| 04:00.58 | AAA_awright | sorry, on a way to implement it |
| 04:01.29 | a_temp_dist | I believe L4m3r was assigned that task |
| 04:01.39 | JeffM2501 | indeed he was |
| 04:02.04 | *** join/#bzflag Pommes_ (n=Pommes@about/essy/frenchy/Pommes) |
| 04:03.01 | AAA_awright | What about a way to accept logins so you are not listed on the user list, but can send packets and, if requested, receive tank data. By default the permissions would disallow this, but you could create a "BZFlag System" or equivelant that can sign in with the global user login and deliever it. |
| 04:03.09 | AAA_awright | Or users could do it themselves. |
| 04:03.20 | JeffM2501 | what for? |
| 04:03.38 | AAA_awright | Delivering messages between servers. |
| 04:03.42 | JeffM2501 | gobal auth is going to be moved to a non bzflag protocoll |
| 04:03.54 | AAA_awright | ...what? |
| 04:04.01 | JeffM2501 | that is l4m3s job as part of SoC |
| 04:04.09 | AAA_awright | That was accepted? |
| 04:04.11 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 04:04.15 | JeffM2501 | that's what we are saying |
| 04:04.41 | *** join/#bzflag Jefenry (n=jeffreyd@pool-162-83-123-169.norf.east.verizon.net) |
| 04:04.59 | AAA_awright | I mean, I knew someone was working on it, but not the Google part. |
| 04:05.25 | blast007 | AAA_awright: if you're looking at the page that talks about it, it also says what stuff was assigned :P |
| 04:06.25 | AAA_awright | This is _so simple_ to implement with the BZFlag protocol it is almost funny that someone is getting paid to do it. |
| 04:06.30 | a_temp_dist | at this url http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code#Program_Evaluation |
| 04:06.40 | AAA_awright | I see the /topic |
| 04:07.32 | blast007 | AAA_awright: simple? |
| 04:07.43 | AAA_awright | Yes, simple. See above porposial. |
| 04:08.10 | JeffM2501 | that dosn't let external apps in |
| 04:08.15 | blast007 | merging IRC or jabber or another common protocol into the bzflag chat system is simple? |
| 04:08.40 | blast007 | modifying the client/server to have a global chat system is simple? |
| 04:08.44 | JeffM2501 | he means use the bzflag protocoll to have servers send messages |
| 04:08.48 | blast007 | right |
| 04:08.58 | AAA_awright | I wrote a BZFlag bot in PHP. Doesn't that tell anyone anything? It even drives (through boildings. But still) |
| 04:09.00 | blast007 | but that's not all of the proposal |
| 04:09.04 | JeffM2501 | it'd be a complex web of connections |
| 04:09.09 | blast007 | AAA_awright: this isn't in PHP |
| 04:09.21 | JeffM2501 | youd' also not want eveyrone connecting to everyone else |
| 04:09.24 | AAA_awright | If it can be done scripted it can be done in C++. |
| 04:09.30 | JeffM2501 | that's why youd' want to use a server based protocoll |
| 04:09.55 | blast007 | AAA_awright: part of it is research |
| 04:10.15 | blast007 | finding out the best solution given the conditions |
| 04:10.41 | blast007 | it's not just a "hey look, I made a patch" kind of thing |
| 04:11.47 | AAA_awright | It isn't that hard to create a plugin that looks for connections on a different port then the BZFlag server. And that keeps with the strict protocol philosophy all of you (read: one person) talk about. |
| 04:12.24 | JeffM2501 | that is one option |
| 04:12.41 | JeffM2501 | in 2.1 we can have more then one protocoll on the bzflag game port :) |
| 04:13.56 | AAA_awright | Which should be a bad thing. One port, one protocol. The protocol can be left open so a source code patch and recompile enables it, but especially not by default. |
| 04:14.31 | AAA_awright | You kinda sorta talked me into liking it before, but then I realized why is is a bad idea after all. |
| 04:17.04 | biggeruniverse | conform! |
| 04:18.48 | JeffM2501 | AAA_awright, it's not always a bad thing |
| 04:19.01 | JeffM2501 | makes network management easier |
| 04:19.03 | AAA_awright | it is very hackish |
| 04:19.08 | JeffM2501 | not if it's done cleanly |
| 04:19.22 | JeffM2501 | just cus you don't like it dosn't mean it's bad ;) |
| 04:19.23 | AAA_awright | If anything, I would like a plugin that can define new packets. |
| 04:19.31 | a_meteorite | that'd be sweet |
| 04:19.32 | AAA_awright | not an entirely new protocol |
| 04:19.41 | *** join/#bzflag tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@128.187.169.195) |
| 04:19.44 | JeffM2501 | it can |
| 04:20.00 | JeffM2501 | why would you want to mix in packets to a client that can't use them? |
| 04:20.02 | biggeruniverse | I think he means new message types |
| 04:20.06 | biggeruniverse | that would be a bad thing |
| 04:20.07 | JeffM2501 | yeah I know what he means |
| 04:20.10 | JeffM2501 | that'd be stupid |
| 04:20.24 | JeffM2501 | you'd tie your plugin to a bzflag protocoll |
| 04:20.29 | AAA_awright | Not for bzflag to use, but custom clients. |
| 04:20.37 | AAA_awright | yah. |
| 04:20.37 | blast007 | exactly |
| 04:20.38 | biggeruniverse | <JeffM2501> just cus you don't like it dosn't mean it's bad ;) |
| 04:20.41 | JeffM2501 | they can use another protocoll |
| 04:20.44 | blast007 | that's stupid :) |
| 04:21.07 | JeffM2501 | biggeruniverse, I'm not the only one who dosn't like it ;) |
| 04:21.07 | blast007 | what's the point in a plugin if you have to have a custom client? |
| 04:21.11 | AAA_awright | My point: . (sorry) |
| 04:21.12 | blast007 | might as well just fork the whole code |
| 04:21.15 | JeffM2501 | put it on it's own proto |
| 04:21.20 | JeffM2501 | then define all you want |
| 04:21.25 | JeffM2501 | then you don't screw up real clients |
| 04:21.27 | biggeruniverse | just cus everyone don't like it dosn't mean it's bad |
| 04:21.28 | a_meteorite | plugin development is much easier than learning bzfs' internals |
| 04:21.45 | blast007 | a_meteorite: and how does new packet types help? |
| 04:21.45 | JeffM2501 | biggeruniverse, I didn't say it was bad, I said it was stupid ;) |
| 04:21.49 | AAA_awright | I think we should leave the structure in the source to define new protocols, but disable it by default. In a #define at least, server switch at most. |
| 04:21.49 | a_meteorite | and new packets would not screw up existing clients, it'd add functionality (adminstration, messages) to custom clients |
| 04:22.04 | a_meteorite | ie, things that are not graphical |
| 04:22.07 | JeffM2501 | a_meteorite, or they jsut make 2 connetions |
| 04:22.07 | AAA_awright | ^ ditto a_meteorite |
| 04:22.11 | JeffM2501 | one on each proto |
| 04:22.19 | JeffM2501 | the client proto is for the game |
| 04:22.21 | JeffM2501 | that's it |
| 04:22.26 | biggeruniverse | I solved all this bzfs2 |
| 04:22.32 | biggeruniverse | :P |
| 04:22.34 | JeffM2501 | whatever |
| 04:22.49 | a_meteorite | biggeruniverse: fork it already ;) |
| 04:23.00 | JeffM2501 | if you have to have a custom client, and a custom plugin, why not just have it use a custom protocoll? |
| 04:23.07 | biggeruniverse | Hey, channels can listen on different ports. Just bind different message handlers to a channel, make it listen on a different port, and go |
| 04:23.08 | JeffM2501 | then you can mix and match them |
| 04:23.19 | AAA_awright | I am just saying, I came up with a great way to send messages between servers that doesn't break protocol. Come and look. |
| 04:23.31 | biggeruniverse | my eyes! |
| 04:23.35 | JeffM2501 | AAA_awright, I know what your saying |
| 04:23.40 | JeffM2501 | Im saying breaking isn't bad |
| 04:23.44 | JeffM2501 | we want to break |
| 04:23.47 | blast007 | AAA_awright: the GSoC stuff is targeted at 2.1.x anyway...so who cares if we break? |
| 04:23.53 | JeffM2501 | AND swap to a protocoll that allows OTHER apps |
| 04:23.56 | JeffM2501 | standard apps |
| 04:23.58 | AAA_awright | If you want to come up with a (more complicated) way to do it, I (guess I) am okay with that (no). |
| 04:24.20 | biggeruniverse | a_meteorite: I did! |
| 04:24.27 | JeffM2501 | your system requires servers to connect to each other right biggeruniverse ? |
| 04:24.36 | biggeruniverse | no... |
| 04:24.40 | biggeruniverse | which system? |
| 04:24.46 | JeffM2501 | sorry AAA_awright |
| 04:24.47 | JeffM2501 | not yours |
| 04:24.49 | biggeruniverse | oh |
| 04:24.56 | JeffM2501 | yours is sorry, pointless untill it gets worked in |
| 04:24.58 | a_meteorite | biggeruniverse: where? |
| 04:25.08 | biggeruniverse | a_meteorite: dude! |
| 04:25.19 | blast007 | a_meteorite: you missed it |
| 04:25.21 | biggeruniverse | a_meteorite: I gave it it's own webpage and everything! |
| 04:25.24 | a_meteorite | biggeruniverse: I know you did, but like where is a source repo I can get it? |
| 04:25.24 | blast007 | he had a download page even |
| 04:25.27 | a_meteorite | err |
| 04:25.32 | a_meteorite | where is this download page? |
| 04:25.36 | JeffM2501 | in the logs |
| 04:25.37 | blast007 | the internet |
| 04:25.42 | a_meteorite | that's helpful... |
| 04:25.44 | biggeruniverse | whereever you left it |
| 04:25.44 | a_meteorite | what day? |
| 04:25.55 | blast007 | a_meteorite: in the last 30 days |
| 04:25.59 | biggeruniverse | hehe |
| 04:26.03 | biggeruniverse | 4/22 |
| 04:26.05 | biggeruniverse | I think |
| 04:26.24 | JeffM2501 | AAA_awright, I think the main point is that we should look at other protocolls, since the need isn't for right now |
| 04:26.26 | blast007 | I know it wasn't yesterday, so that narrows it down a bit |
| 04:26.34 | JeffM2501 | other protocolls may get us more features that our own code may not |
| 04:27.00 | JeffM2501 | it's good that you've done the research and I think you should show it all to l4m3r to he has all the info |
| 04:27.18 | AAA_awright | I guess that is okay for now. But why would bzfs-to-bzfs use anything other then bzproto? |
| 04:27.27 | AAA_awright | that is my point |
| 04:27.29 | JeffM2501 | because it may not be just bzfs to bzfs |
| 04:27.43 | AAA_awright | In that case you have a library that deals with it. |
| 04:27.48 | JeffM2501 | it could be bzfs to centeral server to bzfs and pre-connect lboby servers |
| 04:27.49 | biggeruniverse | I'd love to jabber people that were in-game |
| 04:27.57 | JeffM2501 | yeah and maybe IM clients |
| 04:27.59 | AAA_awright | Seriously, implementing the scaffold for bzproto only takes a few lines. |
| 04:27.59 | biggeruniverse | then I could annoy them incessantly |
| 04:28.10 | blast007 | this might be a way to send a message to everyone that has a bzflag client (or an IM client) running at the time |
| 04:28.11 | JeffM2501 | AAA_awright, it's not about how easy it is |
| 04:28.14 | JeffM2501 | it's about the features |
| 04:28.18 | JeffM2501 | you need to realise that |
| 04:28.30 | JeffM2501 | sure I hacked up IRC support in a couple of lines too |
| 04:28.33 | JeffM2501 | but that dons't mean it's best |
| 04:28.59 | blast007 | the main thing is that we're looking for a long term, well-designed solution |
| 04:29.08 | biggeruniverse | we're screwed! |
| 04:29.13 | blast007 | :) |
| 04:29.19 | JeffM2501 | biggeruniverse dude your not helping |
| 04:29.32 | a_meteorite | ~logs |
| 04:29.46 | ibot | methinks logs is http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/, or stats http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/bzflag.html.gz |
| 04:29.46 | JeffM2501 | AAA_awright, your points are valid, just make sure you get them to the right people |
| 04:30.00 | JeffM2501 | and please understand the goals that are trying to be met |
| 04:30.01 | biggeruniverse | I didn't know my job here was helping... |
| 04:30.03 | JeffM2501 | it's not all about speed |
| 04:30.07 | JeffM2501 | you don't have a job here |
| 04:30.08 | AAA_awright | oh, you mean connecting existing protocols to bzfs.... That is what I am saying about reading a separate port, or making it easier for people like me who tinker with that stuff to do exactly that.. It just shouldn't be enabled by default |
| 04:30.18 | biggeruniverse | see? that's what I'm saying! |
| 04:30.24 | JeffM2501 | nothing is enabled by default |
| 04:30.44 | JeffM2501 | TIm wanted the same port proto for admin management via HTTP |
| 04:31.01 | AAA_awright | (what I was doing) |
| 04:31.03 | *** part/#bzflag Jefenry (n=jeffreyd@pool-162-83-123-169.norf.east.verizon.net) |
| 04:31.11 | AAA_awright | (with a seperate app, but stull) |
| 04:31.14 | JeffM2501 | on the same port? |
| 04:31.49 | AAA_awright | I really don't see the need to do it on the same port. We may as well host multiple servers on the same port, and at join time you select which one to use. Hey, there is an idea. |
| 04:32.12 | JeffM2501 | so you don't have to blow open more holes in a firewall |
| 04:32.14 | AAA_awright | See above idea. |
| 04:32.15 | JeffM2501 | and can have the admin system on a server that has HTTP setup allready |
| 04:32.17 | biggeruniverse | a_meteorite: ok, 4/23 |
| 04:32.27 | JeffM2501 | using the BZFS proto means you can't do HTTP |
| 04:32.32 | a_meteorite | thank you, I just spent searching "http".. came across all those spam logs |
| 04:33.07 | JeffM2501 | the idea was to HTTP using a regular browser to the same host/port of the server |
| 04:33.11 | JeffM2501 | and admin it |
| 04:33.24 | JeffM2501 | simply buy intalling a plug in |
| 04:33.31 | JeffM2501 | not seting up another app |
| 04:33.37 | AAA_awright | same here. Another thing I want to do now is be able to run multiple games on the same port... |
| 04:33.40 | JeffM2501 | but that's not saying that you can't set up another app |
| 04:33.46 | JeffM2501 | why? |
| 04:34.01 | AAA_awright | what you said, use as few port numbers as possible. |
| 04:34.06 | JeffM2501 | tho tehincay if I do channels in 2.2 we can do that |
| 04:34.16 | JeffM2501 | or rooms as I called them |
| 04:34.17 | AAA_awright | Connect with a string like host.tld:5154/servername |
| 04:34.18 | a_meteorite | one big bzfs process.. hehe |
| 04:34.44 | AAA_awright | no, not one process... why not somthing like apache, master delagating process controlling sub processes. |
| 04:34.46 | JeffM2501 | or make the game list the rooms on join :) |
| 04:34.47 | a_meteorite | that could make things interesting |
| 04:34.54 | a_meteorite | /join roomname |
| 04:34.58 | JeffM2501 | exactly |
| 04:34.59 | a_meteorite | and keep your score and everything |
| 04:35.06 | JeffM2501 | woudl depend on the room |
| 04:35.09 | AAA_awright | as an option. |
| 04:35.09 | a_meteorite | yeah |
| 04:35.10 | JeffM2501 | most would be new games |
| 04:35.13 | AAA_awright | not by default :) |
| 04:35.31 | a_meteorite | or even make new games by joining them |
| 04:35.31 | JeffM2501 | that will be a way off |
| 04:35.31 | JeffM2501 | subspace did that |
| 04:35.31 | a_meteorite | *new rooms |
| 04:36.11 | AAA_awright | why not make that a GSoC project? a master bzfs process that can redirect a user to a random bzfs subprocess. |
| 04:36.26 | AAA_awright | If it weren't too late, I mean |
| 04:36.33 | JeffM2501 | we didn't pick what they wanted to work on |
| 04:36.34 | JeffM2501 | they did |
| 04:36.38 | JeffM2501 | we didn't do asignements |
| 04:37.00 | JeffM2501 | why didn't you write that up on the wiki page as an idea? |
| 04:37.10 | AAA_awright | (not thinking there) Why not recommend that on the ideas for projects page? |
| 04:37.17 | AAA_awright | I just thought of it |
| 04:37.26 | a_meteorite | GSoC applicants have already been picked |
| 04:37.45 | AAA_awright | I said I know it is too late... but... still a very cool idea. |
| 04:38.04 | biggeruniverse | that means threading |
| 04:38.09 | JeffM2501 | sure |
| 04:38.15 | JeffM2501 | what's wrong with threads? |
| 04:38.17 | biggeruniverse | there are some threading-averse elements here... |
| 04:38.18 | biggeruniverse | <.< |
| 04:38.20 | biggeruniverse | >.> |
| 04:38.33 | JeffM2501 | that'd be part of the design and development :) |
| 04:38.53 | AAA_awright | read the httpd source code. Learn something new. I have been redirecting some people to the bzflag source to learn about oss games for a while... |
| 04:39.10 | JeffM2501 | ok, now THAT is supid |
| 04:39.13 | JeffM2501 | we have horible code |
| 04:39.15 | blast007 | AAA_awright: I feel sorry for them |
| 04:39.30 | biggeruniverse | I thought it was so bad, I rewrote it ;) |
| 04:40.12 | AAA_awright | I can read it fine. And I don't know nearly as much C/++ as, er, SQL even. |
| 04:40.21 | AAA_awright | (bad comparison) |
| 04:40.39 | JeffM2501 | it's realy bad |
| 04:40.55 | blast007 | not as bad as phpBB, but still bad |
| 04:41.06 | AAA_awright | the code? |
| 04:41.34 | blast007 | no, the meatloaf |
| 04:41.48 | AAA_awright | wha? If you want to compare it to somthing bad, compare it to the PEAR base. THAT is (not actually bad) but very undercommented and unreadable. |
| 04:43.24 | AAA_awright | same here. |
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| 04:54.48 | biggeruniverse | alright, well, I'm out. |
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| 04:56.34 | AAA_awright | before I go: I guess I get the point. As long as you don't over-use the custom protocol handler |
| 04:59.53 | JeffM2501 | it's just there as a hook |
| 04:59.58 | JeffM2501 | for whatever is needed |
| 05:00.06 | JeffM2501 | I wanted to also do one on anotehr port |
| 05:00.12 | JeffM2501 | but I ran out of iterstes |
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| 08:22.30 | strayer | Pimpi: hi, do you have 7 minutes for me? :) |
| 08:31.15 | brlcad | probably only 6 minutes and 23 seconds |
| 08:32.29 | strayer | well...I could try to make it short ^^ |
| 08:33.05 | ruskie | or you could just spew the stuff out and let him read it when he has time |
| 08:34.13 | Deepa | ruskie: Honestly, who does that? |
| 08:34.22 | Deepa | You really want the person to be around |
| 08:34.31 | ruskie | Deepa, I do |
| 08:34.34 | ruskie | and a lot of others |
| 08:34.40 | ruskie | since there are ppl that idle a lot |
| 08:34.46 | ruskie | or simple aren't around |
| 08:34.52 | Deepa | PPPPPRIVMSG! |
| 08:34.56 | ruskie | they respond later |
| 08:34.59 | ruskie | nope |
| 08:35.03 | strayer | that's an option...but I daid "7 minutes", because it's a little more than just "clap your hands, please" :) |
| 08:35.08 | strayer | *said |
| 08:35.10 | ruskie | lol |
| 08:35.15 | Deepa | My point is, send a message in private |
| 08:35.17 | ruskie | I have conversations with ppl with 24h lag |
| 08:35.25 | ruskie | in public that is |
| 08:36.00 | strayer | strange @ruskie :o) |
| 08:36.09 | ruskie | not really |
| 08:36.17 | strayer | Deepa: yeah, the last chance |
| 08:36.18 | ruskie | mor or less common all over the place |
| 08:36.33 | ruskie | atleast in most of the 60 chans I'm on |
| 08:36.33 | Deepa | Ive talked to someone who was less mentally around then me in public once |
| 08:36.45 | Deepa | only on 60 chans? |
| 08:36.47 | strayer | that's why I don't like IRC...the long response times are horrible |
| 08:36.52 | ruskie | also privmsging doesn't work with some ppl |
| 08:37.02 | Deepa | No |
| 08:37.02 | Deepa | It works with everyone |
| 08:37.06 | ruskie | no it doesn't |
| 08:37.13 | ruskie | you can't privmsg me for example |
| 08:37.16 | ruskie | not even if you're registered |
| 08:37.18 | Deepa | Its like one of the corefeatures of IRC |
| 08:37.19 | ruskie | I simply won't get it |
| 08:37.41 | Deepa | Your doing a PRIVMSG now |
| 08:37.52 | ruskie | if you're not registered and if the user hasn't disabled the anti-privmsg feature on freendoe he won't get it as well |
| 08:38.07 | ruskie | yes to a channel |
| 08:38.09 | ruskie | not to a user |
| 08:38.11 | Deepa | PRIVMSG #bzflag :test :D |
| 08:38.37 | ruskie | anyway this is waaaayyyy OT around here |
| 08:38.39 | Deepa | okay, everywhere except on freenode |
| 08:38.51 | strayer | hehe |
| 08:39.09 | Deepa | Its a while left |
| 08:39.20 | Deepa | I heard someone say a week |
| 08:39.32 | strayer | oh..long time to hide |
| 08:39.54 | Deepa | lots of killing to do |
| 08:40.11 | strayer | yepp :) |
| 08:40.59 | strayer | good idea...I'll try to waste a little time doing this now.. |
| 08:56.12 | Pimpi | strayer: bin da, aber nicht lange... |
| 09:04.04 | Pimpi | nu bin ich wieder weg |
| 09:04.21 | Pimpi | in einer halben stunde vielleicht nochmal... |
| 09:32.29 | strayer | Pimpi: ist die halbe Stunde schon vorbei? |
| 09:42.03 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r14202 10/trunk/bzflag/package/win32/nsis/copying.rtf: just make it the license; don't include gnu's instructions to devs on how to use the license |
| 09:45.41 | Pimpi | strayer: ok, wieder da |
| 09:45.51 | strayer | sehr gut :) |
| 09:45.55 | Pimpi | :) |
| 09:46.13 | strayer | es geht nochmal um die Ergebnismails fuer Zongo... |
| 09:46.35 | strayer | die trennenden TAB-Zeichen kommen irgendwie verstümmelt an, aber nicht als Tabs |
| 09:46.52 | Pimpi | ach, ich dachte ihr hättet da die Zeichekombination, die syslog da für die tabs reinsetzt einfach als trenner genommen |
| 09:47.15 | strayer | hm, eigentlich nicht :) |
| 09:47.39 | Pimpi | tabs kriege ich da nicht durch. ich kann eine zufällige Zeichenkette dafür nemen |
| 09:48.20 | strayer | hm...naja...kommt dann ja auf das Gleiche heraus, ob nun irgendeine Zeichenkette oder den hetzigen Trenner |
| 09:48.42 | Pimpi | der jetztige trenner ist ja nicht besonders lang... |
| 09:49.35 | strayer | richtig...kommt als ^I bei mir an |
| 09:49.42 | Pimpi | aber wenn euch das reicht soll es mir recht sein |
| 09:50.17 | strayer | also...sofern du sagst, dass es auch zukünftig dieser Trenner ist, kann ich ja einen klitzekleinen Wrapper drauf ansetzen |
| 09:51.05 | strayer | hm...eine Zeichenkettenersetzung sollte reichen, damit ich weiter nichts ändern muss :) |
| 09:51.05 | Pimpi | solange ich nix änder wird das so bleiben. syslog sceint keine tabs zu nehmen und die statt dessen durch ^| zu ersetzen |
| 09:51.17 | Pimpi | ja |
| 09:51.54 | Pimpi | vorausgesetzt es hat da keiner ^| im callsign |
| 09:51.54 | strayer | nagut, dann lassen wir das so..hält auch den Änderungsaufwand in Grenzen..alles klar..danke :) |
| 09:52.03 | strayer | oh...stimmt... |
| 09:52.17 | strayer | aber is ^ überhaut erlaubt? |
| 09:52.33 | Pimpi | man schauen... |
| 09:53.05 | strayer | ja, scheint so...schlecht |
| 09:54.23 | strayer | nagut, ich sags mal so...solange syslog nur normale Zeichenketten als Trenner erlaub, wird das Problem mit den Spielernamen immer sein...damit müssen wir denn leben |
| 10:01.52 | Manu | hallo Pimpi :) |
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| 14:40.15 | SportChick | STRAYER! |
| 14:40.38 | strayer | huhu sporty :) |
| 14:41.31 | SportChick | :) |
| 14:41.39 | strayer | don't you think #bzflag is enough? ^^ |
| 14:42.00 | SportChick | nope :) I just said why too :) |
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| 15:17.01 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://fisheye1.cenqua.com/browse/bzflag/bzflag || New WIKI! http://my.bzflag.org/w/ || Migrated from CVS to SVN: http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN || GSoC 4 slots: http://my.bzflag.org/w/Google_Summer_of_Code#Program_Evaluation |
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| 18:24.15 | Tannerld | CAN irc channel is empty? |
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| 18:24.39 | JeffM2501 | no |
| 18:24.43 | AAA_awright | no |
| 18:25.00 | JeffM2501 | ##CommunityAdminNetwork |
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| 18:34.35 | tannerld | err... |
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| 21:03.21 | lan56 | svn looks a lot easier to use than cvs |
| 21:03.32 | JeffM2501 | it is |
| 21:03.41 | lan56 | does it still need putty? |
| 21:03.45 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 21:03.47 | JeffM2501 | https |
| 21:03.52 | lan56 | awesome |
| 21:04.04 | JeffM2501 | you can get a graphical client for it too |
| 21:04.05 | JeffM2501 | if you want |
| 21:04.08 | lan56 | tortoisesvn |
| 21:04.11 | JeffM2501 | ja |
| 21:04.15 | lan56 | will do |
| 21:04.45 | lan56 | I need to get back in the game; for the past few months america's army game sucked me away |
| 21:04.51 | lan56 | I want to kick myself for it |
| 21:05.02 | JeffM2501 | heh |
| 21:05.06 | tannerld | heh |
| 21:05.21 | JeffM2501 | you may want to re-evalutate the devC++ thingy, as there is a free version of MSVC |
| 21:05.44 | lan56 | yeah; regardless of what about MSVC is free or not, dev-C++ really sucks, now that I consider it |
| 21:05.58 | lan56 | it is dead in terms of development, and codeblocks is a MUCH better alternative |
| 21:06.12 | JeffM2501 | so can we pull it from 2.1? |
| 21:06.18 | JeffM2501 | since it's not updated |
| 21:06.18 | lan56 | MSVC seems bulky when I tried the 2005 IDE thing, whatever it was called |
| 21:06.23 | lan56 | yes be my guest |
| 21:06.37 | JeffM2501 | yay |
| 21:06.38 | lan56 | I have 0 motivation to maintain it |
| 21:06.45 | JeffM2501 | understandably |
| 21:07.30 | lan56 | I also got a new computer, and dual boot with Xubuntu, so only half the time I will be able to access dev-c++ anyway, if I were to continue with it |
| 21:07.30 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14203 10/trunk/bzflag/Dev-C++/: dead, begone |
| 21:07.30 | lan56 | hah |
| 21:07.30 | brlcad | heh |
| 21:07.48 | brlcad | jeez, hesitated all of 1 minute |
| 21:08.03 | Erroneous | lets you actually remove directories :) |
| 21:08.05 | JeffM2501 | Erroneous, and I have talked about it |
| 21:08.19 | lan56 | if I had SVN ready to go, I probably would have done it in half the time |
| 21:08.22 | JeffM2501 | and we said we'd ask when whe saw him, and we saw him :) |
| 21:08.23 | lan56 | but thank you dtr :) |
| 21:08.26 | Erroneous | heh :) |
| 21:08.35 | JeffM2501 | I'd have pulled it long ago if not for waiting to ask |
| 21:08.43 | lan56 | you can always email me |
| 21:08.49 | JeffM2501 | there was no rush |
| 21:09.29 | lan56 | lan56@users.sourceforge.net |
| 21:09.29 | JeffM2501 | figured you pop in sooner or later |
| 21:09.29 | JeffM2501 | if it got near release we'd e-mail |
| 21:09.29 | brlcad | now where's a typo when one would be funny |
| 21:09.29 | Erroneous | we'd have pulled it if it got close to release and we hadn't heard |
| 21:09.29 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r14204 10/trunk/bzflag/ (Makefile.am README.DEVC++): remove devC++ as it is unmaintained |
| 21:09.34 | lan56 | rush or no rush, feel free to email me for anything |
| 21:09.44 | lan56 | as it turns out I wanted to rid the dev-c++ files too |
| 21:09.57 | JeffM2501 | all the more reason to not wait :) |
| 21:10.12 | lan56 | hah |
| 21:10.18 | CIA-2 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r14205 10/trunk/bzflag/configure.ac: here too |
| 21:10.34 | JeffM2501 | ahh I got close :( |
| 21:10.56 | brlcad | ahh, conflict |
| 21:10.58 | Erroneous | heh |
| 21:11.32 | lan56 | is that an SVN thing or a CIA thing--the revision numbers in the message? |
| 21:11.37 | Erroneous | svn |
| 21:11.51 | Erroneous | revisions are kept "per commit" repository wide, rather than per file |
| 21:11.55 | JeffM2501 | every commit has a rev |
| 21:11.57 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:12.03 | lan56 | that is awesome |
| 21:12.04 | JeffM2501 | so you can see all the modifications that were done together |
| 21:12.05 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 21:12.23 | Erroneous | so instead of grabbing "file such and such 1.170" you just grab "r14101" |
| 21:12.36 | lan56 | hah I was thinking that |
| 21:12.43 | lan56 | sounds so much nicer |
| 21:12.45 | Erroneous | and you can roll back entire commits in one blow |
| 21:12.55 | Erroneous | get diffs of entire commits |
| 21:12.56 | Erroneous | and so on |
| 21:12.59 | Erroneous | much bettert |
| 21:13.10 | lan56 | sure sounds much better |
| 21:13.24 | Erroneous | and svn lets you delete directories :) |
| 21:13.32 | Erroneous | as I so recently demonstrated ;) |
| 21:13.32 | JeffM2501 | or even have history on them |
| 21:13.42 | Erroneous | yeah, renames keep history too |
| 21:16.03 | lan56 | does SF.net still have the delay between developer repository and anonymous repository? |
| 21:16.13 | lan56 | I believe 5 hours it used to be or so |
| 21:16.14 | JeffM2501 | there is no anon with SVN |
| 21:16.18 | JeffM2501 | one repo |
| 21:16.27 | lan56 | I see |
| 21:16.32 | JeffM2501 | all checkouts are efectivly anon |
| 21:16.36 | JeffM2501 | commits are done with a login |
| 21:16.43 | JeffM2501 | so it can all be the same repo |
| 21:16.48 | lan56 | ahh I see |
| 21:16.56 | lan56 | sounds more organized |
| 21:17.00 | JeffM2501 | it is |
| 21:17.15 | JeffM2501 | basicly the way it works, there is never any need to have an operation that does read and write |
| 21:17.27 | JeffM2501 | so reads are one thing and writes are another |
| 21:17.34 | JeffM2501 | and you secure them indepentdently |
| 21:17.47 | *** part/#bzflag AndyCap (n=aoy@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/AndyCap) |
| 21:18.50 | lan56 | I see |
| 21:21.11 | lan56 | off to restart for tortoisesvn |
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| 23:33.15 | foucist | i'm getting my butt kick |
| 23:33.16 | foucist | kicked* |
| 23:33.17 | foucist | heh |
| 23:33.33 | a_meteorite | you new? |
| 23:33.51 | foucist | yeah |
| 23:33.51 | a_meteorite | that's usually how it is :) |
| 23:33.51 | a_meteorite | welcome |
| 23:34.07 | foucist | well i'm starting to get comfortable with the radar etc, but still getting owned heh |
| 23:34.35 | The_Vaxorcist | expect to lose for the next few years :) |
| 23:35.15 | foucist | awww |
| 23:35.25 | foucist | thats unacceptable :P |
| 23:36.58 | The_Vaxorcist | that's what makes it so fun, imho |
| 23:40.07 | foucist | yeah |
| 23:40.13 | foucist | i need some tips heh |
| 23:41.25 | The_Vaxorcist | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Category:Tactics |
| 23:42.07 | The_Vaxorcist | someone else had a really nice website, i'll see if I can dig it up |
| 23:45.35 | The_Vaxorcist | http://web.archive.org/web/20030822071735/www.shellshock.dutchrai.com/guides-introduction.htm |
| 23:51.07 | delusional | probably best to stay on some of the less popular servers for a little while, it's easier to learn if there's less people shooting at you. |