| 00:00.35 | JeffM | anyone know nn? |
| 00:00.49 | jude- | ~nn |
| 00:00.50 | ibot | nini |
| 00:01.00 | jude- | ibot does :) |
| 00:02.21 | donny_baker | new guy who is itching to host peoples maps :P |
| 00:02.41 | a_meteorite | even more fun... |
| 00:02.47 | JeffM | yeah |
| 00:02.54 | donny_baker | offering ssh access to anyone who askes, and even thoughs that don't |
| 00:03.05 | Thumper_ | hi jude-. With your last commit last night did you intend to delete the makefile from the Debug directory? (and the entire Debug directory for that matter) :) |
| 00:03.08 | JeffM | who's been warned to stop posting about it and pushing it on people |
| 00:03.13 | JeffM | yet still does it |
| 00:03.58 | a_meteorite | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/567443 |
| 00:04.08 | a_meteorite | ideas anyone? :) |
| 00:04.13 | jude- | Thumper_: only key parts of it (i.e. .d files, .o files, the exe, etc) |
| 00:04.18 | jude- | not the makefiles |
| 00:04.29 | jude- | is it not in SVN? |
| 00:04.33 | Thumper_ | it looks like you deleted everything but those :) |
| 00:04.52 | jude- | so...does the checked-out SVN build for you? |
| 00:05.12 | davemicc | no Makefile to build it with |
| 00:05.16 | jude- | oh |
| 00:05.20 | Thumper_ | no no Debug directory anymore |
| 00:05.29 | jude- | uh oh |
| 00:05.47 | jude- | hang on a sec... |
| 00:06.18 | Erroneous | a_meteorite: is your interface ip correct? |
| 00:06.22 | JeffM | he won't be able to post anymore. |
| 00:06.31 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03judecn * r14333 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (23 files in 10 dirs): Added Debug directory (with makefiles) |
| 00:06.36 | a_meteorite | Erroneous: should be, let me check |
| 00:06.50 | jude- | Thumper_: should be there now |
| 00:06.56 | Thumper_ | checking... |
| 00:06.57 | a_meteorite | Erroneous: yup... |
| 00:07.03 | a_meteorite | ~dns franklin.bzfx.net |
| 00:07.24 | Erroneous | anything else bound to port 5200? |
| 00:07.27 | a_meteorite | nope |
| 00:07.30 | brlcad | donny_baker: has it gotten to be a problem, or is it still manageable? |
| 00:07.38 | brlcad | more of a problem, I should say |
| 00:07.59 | Thumper_ | jude-: builds now. thanks :) |
| 00:08.11 | jude- | yay! and no cryptic SVN errors this time :) |
| 00:08.13 | Thumper_ | jude-: sorry I keep nagging you about this - just smack me if you want me to stop |
| 00:08.29 | jude- | Thumper_: please continue nagging me--it helps me realize that I forgot to add things :) |
| 00:08.33 | donny_baker | brlcad: going to update to new version and host ban file locally.. see how that work |
| 00:08.37 | Thumper_ | jude-: ok :) |
| 00:08.44 | Erroneous | a_meteorite: I mean, you have actually checked netstat -a, and nothing is bound? |
| 00:08.48 | a_meteorite | oh, let me see |
| 00:08.49 | brlcad | donny_baker: i was looking at the recent edits, and there were almost as many anonymous real edits as spam edits -- that seem about right? |
| 00:09.04 | brlcad | and at a rate of about a half-dozen a day? |
| 00:09.09 | a_meteorite | didn't think about that :) |
| 00:09.21 | a_meteorite | Erroneous: netstat -a | grep 5200 pulls up nothing |
| 00:09.33 | brlcad | donny_baker: there's a *massive* blacklist that apache uses that you could probably tap into |
| 00:09.39 | donny_baker | well the spam comes in for a few days and stops for a few and repeats |
| 00:09.40 | tannerld | hiya jude- |
| 00:10.08 | jude- | hello tannerld |
| 00:10.08 | donny_baker | brlcad: my real concern is that we had 3 'registered' spam edits iirc |
| 00:10.46 | donny_baker | brlcad: so getting that filter working again is crucial |
| 00:10.50 | Erroneous | a_meteorite: dunno what to tell you then. those are the only two things I know of that can cause that...can't grab the ip, or can't grab the port |
| 00:11.01 | tannerld | hmm |
| 00:11.03 | a_meteorite | yeah. I figured that much :\ |
| 00:11.05 | tannerld | svn: Failed to add directory 'Debug': object of the same name already exists :\ |
| 00:11.06 | donny_baker | brlcad: not sure what logs to look at to see what may be happening |
| 00:11.20 | Thumper_ | tannerld: just rename yours away |
| 00:11.34 | Thumper_ | all it has is .d and .o files (or just nuke it) |
| 00:11.53 | tannerld | poof |
| 00:11.53 | tannerld | gone |
| 00:11.57 | tannerld | peace arrives |
| 00:12.05 | a_meteorite | Erroneous: I am not root, would netstat show another's process? |
| 00:12.35 | CBG | What would cause this error on bzbb: "Sorry, but only can reply to posts in this forum."? I'm trying to quote someone. |
| 00:12.38 | a_meteorite | and I can't connect via http or bzflag to 5200.. so I do doubt anything is actually using this |
| 00:12.50 | a_meteorite | CBG: topic got deleted? |
| 00:12.55 | tannerld | oh look a bzworkbench executable! |
| 00:12.58 | CBG | Oh... Trying to quote a post that was removed. :) |
| 00:13.01 | a_meteorite | heh |
| 00:13.18 | Erroneous | a_meteorite: yeah, netstat is not user-limited (to my knowledge) |
| 00:13.21 | jude- | tannerld: it doesn't do much... |
| 00:13.33 | tannerld | jude-: but it is from you :P |
| 00:13.33 | a_meteorite | Erroneous: I made it so it doesn't bind to the one IP with -i, it still says another is running :( |
| 00:13.36 | Erroneous | might be for ports < 1024, but you don't much care about that :) |
| 00:14.09 | jude- | tannerld: the print-outs are those of the actual objects loading, parsing, and updating themselves from BZW text |
| 00:14.12 | a_meteorite | I wonder if it has anything remotely to do with the fact that the process is being started by apache, heh |
| 00:14.32 | a_meteorite | *that bzfs is being started |
| 00:14.44 | tannerld | jude-: pretty |
| 00:14.54 | jude- | tannerld: once all the objects are defined, the top-level file parser will be written to see if it can load real-world maps |
| 00:14.57 | Erroneous | could be, there are sometimes some odd limits. how is it being started (i.e. fork/spawn/exec?) |
| 00:15.04 | tannerld | jude-: cool |
| 00:15.07 | tannerld | jude-: is that next? |
| 00:15.32 | jude- | tannerld: I'm finishing up "mesh" now, and "define" will be written alongside the top-level parser because "define" requires that all other objects be defined |
| 00:15.52 | tannerld | jude-: ah |
| 00:15.58 | a_meteorite | I don't know Erroneous, I'll take a look |
| 00:16.07 | jude- | "mesh" is taking a while--it's pretty complex |
| 00:16.50 | tannerld | yes it is |
| 00:17.09 | a_meteorite | jude-: I have a sudden urge to say "o rly?" |
| 00:17.13 | jude- | heh--needs 5 classes to parse it :P |
| 00:17.40 | thefirstdude | jude, are you going to add UV mapping? |
| 00:17.44 | jude- | a_meteorite: why's that? |
| 00:18.01 | a_meteorite | jude-: because it's common knowledge meshes are complex :P |
| 00:18.01 | jude- | thefirstdude, yes--all features in the man page will be implemented, including UV mapping |
| 00:18.23 | thefirstdude | can I have a link? |
| 00:18.31 | jude- | man bzw |
| 00:18.44 | a_meteorite | Erroneous: it's executed with a simple system() command in PHP |
| 00:18.56 | a_meteorite | I wonder if that same command will work in my shell... *tries* |
| 00:19.11 | jude- | thefirstdude: http://www.die.net/doc/linux/man/man5/bzw.5.html |
| 00:19.13 | thefirstdude | not work here |
| 00:19.36 | awilcox | a_met: hi |
| 00:19.41 | a_meteorite | hi awilcox |
| 00:19.46 | awilcox | a_met: I know stuff about apache, what seems to be your problem? |
| 00:20.14 | awilcox | something about a forking problem? |
| 00:20.16 | thefirstdude | jude, even dyncol and physics? |
| 00:20.21 | a_meteorite | awilcox: well, this apache doesn't seem to like forking processes within php that also binds to a port (bzfs), but I'm seeing if it's something else by trying it in my shell |
| 00:20.23 | a_meteorite | yeah |
| 00:20.48 | jude- | thefirstdude: yup. Those are already done :) |
| 00:20.48 | awilcox | a_met: what does your system status page say? |
| 00:21.12 | brlcad | donny_baker: you know where the apache logs are stashed, yes? |
| 00:21.14 | jude- | thefirstdude: just mesh and define are left |
| 00:21.26 | a_meteorite | yup, worked in the shell |
| 00:21.29 | thefirstdude | ur fast! |
| 00:21.38 | JeffM | he's a real programer :) |
| 00:21.41 | JeffM | that's geting paid |
| 00:21.44 | awilcox | brlcad: I do |
| 00:21.48 | JeffM | they work faster then others |
| 00:21.57 | brlcad | awilcox: good for you |
| 00:21.57 | thefirstdude | ussually |
| 00:22.07 | JeffM | if they don't they get fired |
| 00:22.13 | JeffM | and we don't want to fire jude- |
| 00:22.24 | awilcox | Hehe. |
| 00:22.26 | a_meteorite | awilcox: I don't have access to that, I'm not root |
| 00:22.26 | awilcox | No. |
| 00:22.30 | thefirstdude | defintely not |
| 00:22.31 | donny_baker | brlcad: uhmm.. nope |
| 00:22.43 | awilcox | a_met: sudo vim /etc/apache2/apache2.conf? |
| 00:22.45 | JeffM | awilcox, a_meteorite perhaps a /msg |
| 00:22.48 | a_meteorite | awilcox: so it definitely seems to be apache doesn't like php forking a process (bzfs) that binds to a port |
| 00:22.59 | thefirstdude | jude, are you using opengl? |
| 00:22.59 | a_meteorite | JeffM: it's bzflag related..? |
| 00:23.01 | JeffM | ahh bzfs, nevermind |
| 00:23.01 | awilcox | a_met: we can take this to #AWOS |
| 00:23.05 | JeffM | I see that now |
| 00:23.09 | awilcox | if JeffM doesn't want it |
| 00:23.10 | awilcox | oh okay |
| 00:23.12 | jude- | thefirstdude: yes, eventually |
| 00:23.12 | JeffM | it's fine |
| 00:23.21 | donny_baker | brlcad: my guys manage our apache stuff :) |
| 00:23.21 | JeffM | I thought it was general apache |
| 00:23.37 | jude- | thefirstdude: before the UI can be developed, the file parsing mechanisms and the internal data model must be completed |
| 00:23.43 | JeffM | jude-, comeon, software rendering with VOXELS. it's the new thing :) |
| 00:23.51 | donny_baker | brlcad: sure i can find en though |
| 00:23.55 | awilcox | donny_baker: *cough* /var/log/apache *cough* |
| 00:24.03 | donny_baker | awilcox: ty |
| 00:24.07 | tannerld | thefirstdude: http://bzworkbench.wordpress.com/ |
| 00:24.20 | donny_baker | brlcad: I know exactly where they are ;) |
| 00:24.32 | brlcad | :) |
| 00:24.33 | awilcox | donny_baker: yw :D |
| 00:24.45 | brlcad | awilcox: nope |
| 00:25.01 | brlcad | nice guess, though |
| 00:25.04 | JeffM | brlcad, were the limits you were thinking about for the torque engine it'self? |
| 00:25.18 | brlcad | licensing limits, what you could actually do with it |
| 00:25.26 | JeffM | yes that is true |
| 00:25.33 | brlcad | like academic-use only or somesuch |
| 00:25.39 | JeffM | oh no no |
| 00:25.46 | JeffM | it's closed source |
| 00:25.50 | JeffM | indie license |
| 00:26.01 | awilcox | brlcad: |
| 00:26.03 | awilcox | sh-3.1$ cd /var/log/apache |
| 00:26.03 | awilcox | sh-3.1$ ls |
| 00:26.03 | awilcox | access.log error.log error.log.1 |
| 00:26.12 | JeffM | I can distribute for free as many projects as I want using the engine, just no source for the engine |
| 00:26.18 | awilcox | win 2 |
| 00:26.20 | awilcox | ack |
| 00:26.21 | JeffM | I can distribute sorce for the scrips that run it |
| 00:26.26 | JeffM | as well as the resources |
| 00:26.38 | JeffM | so it can be mostly open |
| 00:26.57 | JeffM | and I own any mods I make to the engine |
| 00:27.15 | JeffM | if I decide to sell a game using the engine, Garage games has first right of refusal to sell the game |
| 00:27.28 | JeffM | to publish it I should say |
| 00:27.45 | JeffM | so you get around that by not charging for the game, but charging for the service :) |
| 00:27.56 | CBG | ~jude-++ |
| 00:28.27 | jude- | JeffM: voxels? |
| 00:28.28 | JeffM | it's a very tempting engine to use. I've got a multiplayer deathmatch game set and running already |
| 00:28.33 | jude- | why? |
| 00:28.41 | JeffM | jude-, it was a joke, but a voxel is a 3d pixel |
| 00:28.47 | jude- | I know.... |
| 00:28.55 | jude- | I didn't know you were joking :) |
| 00:28.57 | JeffM | as in posed to GL :) |
| 00:29.13 | jude- | heh--can't think of many video cards that have hardware-accelerated voxel rendering engines |
| 00:29.19 | JeffM | cus yeah, what's the other choice? direct3d? |
| 00:29.28 | JeffM | shaders cold do it |
| 00:29.28 | jude- | ...and direct3d isn't portable :( |
| 00:29.31 | JeffM | yeah exactly |
| 00:29.43 | *** join/#bzflag Jimbob (n=james@adsl-76-192-187-242.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:29.56 | JeffM | "we are sorry, your video card does not have shader 3.0 you can not edit this basic map" :) |
| 00:30.01 | jude- | ...short of using the marching cubes algorithm :) |
| 00:30.07 | jude- | lol |
| 00:30.07 | JeffM | yeah it'd be a pain |
| 00:30.16 | Jimbob | There's an intentional team-killer on viper.pimpi.org, "slug" |
| 00:30.19 | JeffM | and be pointless |
| 00:30.41 | JeffM | tho realy cus the game has OO, all objects should be manifold |
| 00:30.59 | JeffM | so in that case some sort of solid representation would be good |
| 00:30.59 | jude- | OO? |
| 00:31.01 | Erroneous | but they aren't necessarily |
| 00:31.14 | JeffM | no, not nesisary, but be nice to be simulatable :) |
| 00:31.23 | JeffM | the flag that lets you drive thru stuff |
| 00:31.28 | jude- | oh |
| 00:31.39 | JeffM | if it was all manifold a more accurate state of the OO view could be made :) |
| 00:32.01 | brlcad | JeffM: i know it was closed source -- i mean that how you even use the tool (that modeler) |
| 00:32.41 | brlcad | awilcox: that's nice, but not relevant to the question's at hand |
| 00:33.04 | JeffM | the modeler is one of the nicer brush based CSG tools I've seen |
| 00:33.09 | brlcad | at least I wasn't talking about your system, and donny_baker wasn't at least for part of that too I believe :) |
| 00:33.40 | brlcad | though I was ignoring most of your discussion, so maybe streams were crossed :) |
| 00:34.00 | brlcad | brush-based, as in it's a sculpting csg system? |
| 00:34.11 | JeffM | yeah like quake |
| 00:34.20 | JeffM | slap down objects |
| 00:34.27 | JeffM | add or subtract them to the scene |
| 00:34.32 | JeffM | the final rep is a bsp |
| 00:34.38 | Erroneous | hmm, crossed streams, sounds like brlcad needs better locking :) |
| 00:35.10 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi_ (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 00:35.10 | JeffM | has add subtract, dif, slice, and a couple others I think |
| 00:35.24 | JeffM | even has an OSX version ;) |
| 00:35.33 | brlcad | 'scuse me Egon.. you said crossing the streams was bad.. |
| 00:36.08 | brlcad | you're gonna endanger us, you're gonna endanger our client -- the nice lady who paid us in advance before she became a dog |
| 00:36.44 | JeffM | smells like burnt dog hair |
| 00:37.15 | donny_baker | rofl... i was just getting ready to say the same thing...children of the 80's :) |
| 00:38.34 | brlcad | :) |
| 00:39.01 | brlcad | there's definitely a *very* slim chance we'll survive |
| 00:39.53 | JeffM | ray.. I looked at the trap |
| 00:40.37 | JeffM | OOOOO the editor has scripting suport for new tools too |
| 00:47.09 | JeffM | actualy jude- may want to take a look at the interface in it |
| 00:47.12 | JeffM | it's very flexable |
| 00:48.37 | jude- | JeffM: which one? |
| 00:48.45 | JeffM | torque constructor |
| 00:49.24 | JeffM | http://www.garagegames.com/products/torque/constructor/ |
| 00:49.38 | jude- | you sure it isn't too much like blender? |
| 00:49.44 | JeffM | oh no |
| 00:49.50 | JeffM | it's JUST a csg editor |
| 00:49.53 | JeffM | it's more like lightwave |
| 00:50.03 | JeffM | in it's view layout |
| 00:50.43 | jude- | looks pretty cool |
| 00:52.09 | JeffM | it's one of the beter bsp type editors I've seen |
| 00:52.21 | *** join/#bzflag Tedius (n=Tedius@adsl-76-205-107-200.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:54.18 | jude- | obviously the mesh-editing features aren't required if there isn't time |
| 00:54.19 | *** join/#bzflag Ostrogoth (n=Ostrogot@adsl-074-245-045-054.sip.clt.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:54.28 | brlcad | that is actually a very nice interface |
| 00:54.29 | brlcad | hmm |
| 00:54.41 | jude- | I'll try to do it... |
| 00:54.48 | jude- | but there may not be enough time |
| 00:55.35 | jude- | I mean, individual face/vertex/index manipulation (like in Blender) |
| 00:55.45 | brlcad | jude-: heh, if you even get flexible placement working with a nice interface, maybe with parameters for bz's primitives, I'd be impressed ;) |
| 00:55.52 | *** part/#bzflag Ostrogoth (n=Ostrogot@adsl-074-245-045-054.sip.clt.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:55.56 | brlcad | mesh editing would just be gravy |
| 00:56.08 | brlcad | very delicious gravy, but nonetheless |
| 00:56.37 | jude- | heh--for now, I'm focusing on allowing the data model to be flexible enough for future changes to BZW :) |
| 00:57.01 | jude- | 3D stuff starts at the end of June |
| 00:57.09 | jude- | or whenever the 2D UI is done |
| 01:02.41 | jude- | brlcad: it's *likely* some sort of in-editor mesh manipulation will be possible, but I'm not making any guarantees at this time because it's too far ahead :) |
| 01:07.05 | CBG | "Constructor" looks fantastic... but seems much harder to use than Blender. |
| 01:07.31 | Winny | blender = god :p |
| 01:07.44 | JeffM | CBG, it's not the same as blender |
| 01:07.48 | JeffM | it's not a general modeler |
| 01:07.51 | CBG | No, I see that. |
| 01:07.53 | JeffM | it's a BSP scene editor |
| 01:08.01 | JeffM | you ahve to think in the concepts of solds |
| 01:08.09 | JeffM | it's made for interiors |
| 01:08.15 | CBG | But I'm just saying it's much harder to use. :( |
| 01:08.16 | JeffM | for me it's like lightwave |
| 01:08.20 | JeffM | so it's easy |
| 01:08.22 | JeffM | for you |
| 01:08.27 | JeffM | blender is hard for me :) |
| 01:08.45 | CBG | :) |
| 01:08.59 | CBG | Yeah, Blender isn't easy either... Wings Rules. |
| 01:09.05 | Winny | ...blender! |
| 01:09.12 | Winny | ;) |
| 01:09.15 | JeffM | wings has a nice interface for the simple mesh editing it does |
| 01:09.16 | jude- | blender needs a facelift |
| 01:09.29 | JeffM | tho it was first made to be a mya clone |
| 01:09.29 | jude- | too many levels of UI |
| 01:09.39 | Winny | jude-, blender is meant to look like that |
| 01:09.44 | Winny | windowless :) |
| 01:09.48 | JeffM | go use MAX if you want to see a horible interface |
| 01:09.58 | CBG | windowless? it had a window when I used it |
| 01:09.58 | jude- | Winny: it takes too many steps to do the simplest of things |
| 01:10.10 | Winny | jude-, I modeled a computer in 15min yesterday... |
| 01:10.44 | jude- | all I'm saying is that it has a steep learning curve |
| 01:10.47 | tannerld | Winny: thought you said you haven't modeled anything lately |
| 01:10.50 | jude- | *stepper |
| 01:10.54 | tannerld | jude-: steepest |
| 01:11.07 | Winny | tannerld, I don't tell you everything in my life |
| 01:11.14 | jude- | i.e. changing the material on a group of faces |
| 01:12.03 | jude- | it takes too long |
| 01:12.08 | jude- | with too many step |
| 01:12.11 | jude- | steps |
| 01:12.15 | Winny | if you say so... |
| 01:12.31 | jude- | why can't I just select the faces, select a material, and be done with it? |
| 01:12.42 | jude- | why do I have to create a material group, activate it, and THEN assign the material? |
| 01:12.49 | tannerld | because thats too easy :P |
| 01:12.50 | Winny | I just seperate my meshes :p |
| 01:12.59 | jude- | I use one mesh |
| 01:13.03 | jude- | and multiple material groups |
| 01:13.11 | jude- | even then, why should you be forced to have multiple meshes? |
| 01:13.38 | jude- | sometimes, using multiple meshes is undesirable |
| 01:13.51 | thefirstdude | does anyone know what perms give a @ |
| 01:14.04 | blast007 | it's either playerlist or ban, probably ban |
| 01:14.06 | jude- | s/sumtimes/usually |
| 01:14.07 | JeffM | kick and ban |
| 01:14.11 | jude- | *sometimes |
| 01:14.19 | blast007 | kick does too? |
| 01:14.22 | a_meteorite | no |
| 01:14.28 | JeffM | kick AND ban IIRC |
| 01:14.35 | blast007 | ah |
| 01:14.40 | thefirstdude | I'd trust JeffM! |
| 01:14.46 | Winny | Instant Instant Chat Relay... used to think thats what it meant...heh |
| 01:14.54 | Winny | err, instant internet |
| 01:14.57 | a_meteorite | lol |
| 01:15.00 | jude- | rofl |
| 01:15.09 | awilcox | hahahahahaha |
| 01:15.17 | awilcox | relay chat |
| 01:15.23 | awilcox | Instant Internet Relay Chat |
| 01:15.25 | Winny | yeah, whatever :p |
| 01:15.29 | awilcox | haha |
| 01:15.36 | a_meteorite | that's better than IRC :D |
| 01:15.44 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r14334 10/trunk/admin/master-bans.txt: last chance for PETER |
| 01:15.45 | a_meteorite | Cause IRC isn't "instant", y'know |
| 01:16.00 | jude- | I see JeffM is a forgiving soul :) |
| 01:16.03 | a_meteorite | JeffM: he gets a chance? darn, I was enjoying the silence |
| 01:16.06 | JeffM | If I Recall Corectly |
| 01:16.08 | Winny | Noo.... why Jeff?! |
| 01:16.14 | JeffM | a_meteorite, he will not be able to post |
| 01:16.17 | JeffM | but he can play |
| 01:16.18 | a_meteorite | oh good |
| 01:16.19 | Winny | oh |
| 01:16.21 | Winny | ok |
| 01:16.26 | a_meteorite | I'll just have to silence him |
| 01:16.27 | JeffM | he was willing to discuss it rationaly and admit all he did |
| 01:16.34 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QuantumB@doc-24-32-46-104.leesville.la.cebridge.net) |
| 01:16.59 | Winny | oh, thats a change |
| 01:17.10 | a_meteorite | did he use big bold letters? |
| 01:17.15 | Winny | hehe |
| 01:17.16 | awilcox | wow |
| 01:17.16 | JeffM | not that I can see |
| 01:17.19 | JeffM | he did not talk to me |
| 01:17.23 | JeffM | as he seems scared of me |
| 01:17.24 | a_meteorite | oh |
| 01:17.29 | awilcox | :D |
| 01:17.31 | JeffM | but he was willing to talk to another admin in a civl manner |
| 01:17.39 | JeffM | so tha'ts at least something |
| 01:17.45 | Winny | JeffM, I was scared of you :p |
| 01:17.51 | a_meteorite | I still am |
| 01:17.54 | Winny | *Was* |
| 01:17.54 | JeffM | you should be... you should be |
| 01:17.58 | awilcox | I think we're all kinda scared of JeffM. |
| 01:18.29 | QuantumBeep | We fear the unknown. |
| 01:18.31 | CBG | lol. |
| 01:18.38 | awilcox | Haha. |
| 01:18.47 | Winny | period time.? |
| 01:18.54 | awilcox | er crap |
| 01:19.04 | CBG | We fear the dragons, the demons that rule our dreams. |
| 01:19.07 | *** join/#bzflag bujkyl (n=heath@c-71-207-245-33.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 01:19.14 | Winny | CBG, you have weird dreams |
| 01:19.18 | a_meteorite | CBG: that sounds like JeffM when he can spell |
| 01:19.19 | QuantumBeep | For you are crunchy and taste good with catsup |
| 01:19.21 | awilcox | well people who are unaffiliated are kinda scary |
| 01:19.22 | CBG | I don't dream. :| |
| 01:19.26 | awilcox | *EXCEPT* me. |
| 01:19.29 | CBG | Not often, anyway... |
| 01:19.52 | awilcox | and I wouldn't be unaffiliated if freenode would hurry up that GCF :P |
| 01:20.05 | awilcox | JeffM: what's your excuse for being unaffiliated? |
| 01:20.08 | QuantumBeep | Unaffiliated? |
| 01:20.11 | JeffM | ? |
| 01:20.16 | QuantumBeep | You mean single? |
| 01:20.21 | a_meteorite | QuantumBeep: hahah |
| 01:20.30 | awilcox | you should be @bzflag/usedtocode/JeffM |
| 01:20.33 | JeffM | why do I need an affiliation? |
| 01:20.36 | awilcox | JeffM: your cloak |
| 01:20.49 | JeffM | I know what you speak of |
| 01:21.12 | awilcox | JeffM: It makes you look like the prominent community member you are |
| 01:21.16 | JeffM | I feel no need to have an affiliated cloak |
| 01:21.20 | JeffM | awilcox, exactly |
| 01:21.34 | awilcox | JeffM: you aren't proud?! |
| 01:21.51 | JeffM | I know what I have done, I do not need to advertise it |
| 01:22.08 | JeffM | it is not the jedi way |
| 01:22.14 | awilcox | hehe |
| 01:23.24 | JeffM | I have done more code then just bzflag as well, so why would this project be in my cloak over others? |
| 01:23.47 | tannerld | Winny: not the forum l33t I hope? |
| 01:23.49 | JeffM | % wise, I have more code in libIRC then bzflag ;) |
| 01:25.26 | WinnyAFK | woot, TV TIME |
| 01:25.29 | WinnyAFK | time* |
| 01:26.06 | a_meteorite | WinnyAFK scares me |
| 01:26.40 | QuantumBeep | Because he does normal things, like watch TV? |
| 01:26.48 | a_meteorite | yes |
| 01:26.48 | QuantumBeep | I think it is us that are frightening |
| 01:27.27 | QuantumBeep | I just finished a Japanese translation of Final Fantasy II, so I could see the end boss, which is different from any other version. |
| 01:27.45 | QuantumBeep | Sometimes I even scare myself. |
| 01:28.48 | JeffM | once I was acosted for having a PDPC cloak |
| 01:28.49 | JeffM | that was fun |
| 01:30.06 | CBG | I have taken a dislike to TV. |
| 01:30.14 | QuantumBeep | I have never liked TV |
| 01:30.25 | QuantumBeep | Notable excepting movies. |
| 01:30.53 | CBG | Since I now have a new desk on the opposite side of my room but the Cable cable for my TV comes through the wall on the other side... I have to totally turn away from the interwebz to watch anything. |
| 01:31.56 | a_meteorite | CBG: will you have a heart attack by turning away from the interwebz? or will the interwebz kill you for disloyalty? |
| 01:32.05 | QuantumBeep | My business partner is a complete TV addict, or I wouldn't have cable at all |
| 01:32.13 | CBG | Neither, I just don't like it. |
| 01:32.22 | JeffM | gives him the shakes |
| 01:32.51 | QuantumBeep | I think I would give up the entire rest of the internet if I could keep Google. |
| 01:33.04 | a_meteorite | what good is google without content? |
| 01:33.29 | tannerld | a_meteorite: its cached sites :P |
| 01:33.32 | QuantumBeep | Two thirds of the time I don't visit any results. I just get the info straight from the description block |
| 01:34.53 | thefirstdude | same here |
| 01:35.06 | thefirstdude | but maybe 1/3 |
| 01:35.21 | a_meteorite | a good april fool's joke would be for google to mix up the descriptions :P |
| 01:35.26 | a_meteorite | well, a good way to get sued too |
| 01:36.16 | QuantumBeep | A good April Fool's joke doesn't erode user confidence in a billion-dollar company. |
| 01:36.39 | a_meteorite | :P |
| 01:36.54 | QuantumBeep | Oh.. I'm sorry. I took a dive into seriousness for a second there. |
| 01:37.06 | a_meteorite | nothing can be considered serious on april 1st ;) |
| 01:37.08 | QuantumBeep | Yeah, it's be pretty funny |
| 01:37.49 | QuantumBeep | On April 1st, Morphus having a heart attack would be funny. |
| 01:37.59 | QuantumBeep | *Morpheus |
| 01:38.48 | thefirstdude | did you guys get their last april fools joke, about the Toilet isp? |
| 01:39.35 | jude- | that was brilliant |
| 01:39.48 | jude- | ...although the idea of GoogleGulp from 2006 was cooler, methinks |
| 01:40.15 | QuantumBeep | I think PigeonRank is my favorite so far |
| 01:41.26 | QuantumBeep | Argh. |
| 01:41.39 | QuantumBeep | It's like trying to win a staring contest with an owl. |
| 01:50.56 | thefirstdude | "If time permits, BZWorkbench will automate the creation of “inside” and “outside” points in meshes." |
| 01:51.01 | thefirstdude | are these normals? |
| 01:53.51 | jude- | no... |
| 01:53.59 | jude- | just points that exist inside and outside the mesh |
| 01:53.59 | thefirstdude | then what does it mean? |
| 01:54.08 | thefirstdude | what are they for? |
| 01:54.14 | jude- | they're used to determine the orientation of the mesh for the collision detection code, IIRC |
| 01:54.27 | jude- | pretty obscure |
| 01:54.40 | thefirstdude | does bzw have inside and outside points? |
| 01:54.43 | jude- | BZWB hopefully can be made to autogen them |
| 01:55.02 | thefirstdude | BZWB? |
| 01:55.07 | jude- | BZWorkbench |
| 01:55.20 | jude- | the bzw spec defines "inside" and "outside" points |
| 01:56.48 | thefirstdude | using the keyword points? |
| 01:56.55 | thefirstdude | huh, I never looked into points |
| 01:57.04 | thefirstdude | didn'y know they existed |
| 01:57.12 | jude- | they're used only in "mesh" |
| 01:57.15 | thefirstdude | does that speed up bzflag or something? |
| 01:57.47 | jude- | they allow BZFlag's collision detection code for meshes to work right |
| 01:58.12 | jude- | BZFlag, IIRC, can't determine the orientation of meshes on its own |
| 01:58.34 | thefirstdude | oh, so points would prevent ppl from going through meshes using f5? |
| 01:58.37 | jude- | so map editors need to tell BZFlag some arbitrary points which are contained within the mesh, and some that are not |
| 01:58.58 | jude- | F5? |
| 01:59.11 | jude- | what does that do? |
| 01:59.12 | thefirstdude | it'a a common cheat for going threw meshes ;) |
| 01:59.16 | tannerld | jude-: people would use F5 (screenshots) to lag the client and get through meshes |
| 01:59.19 | a_meteorite | going through ANY objects |
| 01:59.27 | jude- | huh |
| 01:59.31 | jude- | how do you get caught? |
| 01:59.32 | thefirstdude | does it go through boxes? |
| 01:59.34 | a_meteorite | yes |
| 01:59.38 | thefirstdude | admin is observing |
| 01:59.42 | tannerld | you watch carefully :P |
| 01:59.44 | thefirstdude | or players see |
| 01:59.47 | a_meteorite | iirc, if there is no inside points, one can go in and shoot out of the mesh |
| 02:00.02 | *** join/#bzflag Legoguy (n=Legoguy@adsl-70-131-39-68.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 02:01.08 | CBG | The point of inside and outside points is to make a mesh solid. |
| 02:01.54 | CBG | A group of faces don't constitute a solid object with out inside and/or outside points, you could sit inside those faces and (if they are only facing out) shoot out. |
| 02:02.07 | jude- | sweet! my mesh class can parse drawinfos correctly now! |
| 02:02.16 | tannerld | jude-: yay |
| 02:02.16 | jude- | including LODs |
| 02:02.18 | tannerld | ~jude-++ |
| 02:02.25 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@pool-151-201-236-77.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 02:02.32 | CBG | ~jude-++ |
| 02:04.04 | thefirstdude | ~jude-++ |
| 02:04.13 | thefirstdude | ~karma jude |
| 02:04.13 | ibot | jude has karma of 3 |
| 02:04.19 | thefirstdude | only 3!? |
| 02:04.32 | tannerld | ~karma jude |
| 02:04.32 | ibot | jude has karma of 3 |
| 02:04.39 | tannerld | ~karma jude- |
| 02:04.39 | ibot | jude- has karma of 31 |
| 02:04.44 | tannerld | forgot the - |
| 02:04.48 | thefirstdude | ~karma tannerld |
| 02:04.48 | ibot | tannerld has karma of 10 |
| 02:04.55 | thefirstdude | ~karma thefirstude |
| 02:04.55 | ibot | thefirstude has neutral karma |
| 02:04.58 | thefirstdude | ~karma thefirstdude |
| 02:04.58 | ibot | thefirstdude has neutral karma |
| 02:05.06 | thefirstdude | :O |
| 02:05.08 | jude- | ~thefirstdude++ |
| 02:05.18 | thefirstdude | huh, thanks |
| 02:05.21 | jude- | ~tannerld++ |
| 02:05.27 | jude- | ~CBG++ |
| 02:05.38 | jude- | ~karma thefirstdude |
| 02:05.38 | ibot | thefirstdude has karma of 1 |
| 02:05.50 | thefirstdude | yay |
| 02:05.57 | jude- | ~karma CBG |
| 02:05.57 | ibot | cbg has karma of -438 |
| 02:06.06 | thefirstdude | -438??? |
| 02:06.08 | thefirstdude | wow |
| 02:06.15 | jude- | ~karma tannerld |
| 02:06.15 | ibot | tannerld has karma of 11 |
| 02:06.30 | jude- | ~CBG |
| 02:06.31 | ibot | i heard cbg is An annoying 12 year old kid who lives in a bin with lots of sheep. a peach, round and fuzzy The Dude with the Lowest Karma! |
| 02:07.11 | a_meteorite | lol. |
| 02:07.13 | thefirstdude | is that true? |
| 02:07.18 | a_meteorite | yes, thefirstdude |
| 02:07.24 | CBG | It was, maybe not now... |
| 02:07.28 | CBG | ~karma shorty114 |
| 02:07.28 | ibot | shorty114 has karma of -443 |
| 02:07.33 | CBG | Yeah... |
| 02:07.39 | CBG | I had -450 at one point. |
| 02:07.50 | a_meteorite | ~CBG-- |
| 02:07.52 | thefirstdude | who's shorty |
| 02:08.00 | CBG | Since then people have added and subtracted karma however they felt like it... Seem's it's gone up. :o |
| 02:08.01 | a_meteorite | CBG's competitor |
| 02:08.03 | thefirstdude | ~CBG++ |
| 02:08.13 | CBG | I'm sure inferno would know shorty114.. |
| 02:08.24 | thefirstdude | but I don't |
| 02:08.59 | thefirstdude | ~karma JeffM |
| 02:08.59 | ibot | jeffm has karma of 3 |
| 02:09.03 | thefirstdude | ~karma JeffM2501 |
| 02:09.03 | ibot | jeffm2501 has karma of 370 |
| 02:09.31 | *** join/#bzflag Pumpernickel (n=pumperni@CPE0016b6c9fba4-CM0012c9a9a6dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
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| 02:29.22 | *** part/#bzflag kierra (i=4a5f4dc1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/zeebrothers.net/x-ae6a235a23c7b6f7) |
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| 02:57.21 | Macrosoft | back from the dead...again |
| 02:58.33 | jude- | again? |
| 02:59.15 | Macrosoft | i was able to get back on without reinstalling this time |
| 02:59.34 | a_temp_dist | Linux? |
| 02:59.37 | jude- | that's good :) |
| 02:59.38 | Macrosoft | yeah |
| 02:59.42 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak|RDP (i=DTRemena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak) |
| 02:59.42 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak|RDP] by ChanServ |
| 03:00.20 | Macrosoft | i was lucky...i had a backup of the xorg.conf made by kwrite |
| 03:01.30 | jude- | brb--food |
| 03:02.52 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r_ (i=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 03:02.52 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r_] by ChanServ |
| 03:03.23 | Macrosoft | eat(food) |
| 03:03.23 | Macrosoft | ; |
| 03:03.23 | Macrosoft | whats the command to change your name in irc |
| 03:03.23 | Macrosoft | ? |
| 03:03.25 | Macrosoft | like jude did |
| 03:03.41 | tannerld | /nick |
| 03:03.42 | Suspect | /nick Your_nick_here |
| 03:03.52 | Macrosoft | ok |
| 03:04.46 | Macrosoft | the monitor ive been trying to set up: http://www.viewsonic.com/products/desktopdisplays/lcddisplays/graphicseries/vg1930wm/#specs |
| 03:05.13 | Macrosoft | this is why i keep screwing up kde |
| 03:18.16 | *** part/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 03:19.47 | *** join/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 03:20.52 | *** part/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 03:23.53 | jude- | back |
| 03:37.15 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 03:37.19 | *** join/#bzflag JeffMFishBone (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 03:54.43 | jude- | hmmm....at least it catches syntax errors |
| 03:55.19 | jude- | "mesh::update(): Error! "texcoord" in "texcoord 0 1 2" needs 2 values!" |
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| 04:47.03 | *** join/#bzflag Pommes (n=Pommes@about/essy/frenchy/Pommes) |
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| 04:56.19 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
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| 05:00.43 | Macrosoft | hello? |
| 05:01.24 | Macrosoft | ...:( |
| 05:01.41 | JeffM | hello |
| 05:03.35 | *** join/#bzflag ElectricElf (n=dbharris@76.64.55.253) |
| 05:06.50 | jude- | hello |
| 05:07.42 | *** part/#bzflag Tropican8 (i=user@unaffiliated/tropican8) |
| 05:11.28 | *** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=kalen@fl-71-49-6-126.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 05:23.21 | jude- | VICTORY IS MINE!!!! |
| 05:23.52 | jude- | we now have "mesh" support |
| 05:23.59 | jude- | with "drawinfo" and "lod" to boot |
| 05:24.55 | TheRedBaron | ~beer jude- |
| 05:24.56 | ibot | ACTION deftly decants a fine Guinness for jude- |
| 05:25.56 | CIA-3 | BZFlag: 03judecn * r14335 10/trunk/bzworkbench/ (12 files in 6 dirs): Woohoo! "mesh" objects are now supported by the parser! Almost ready for the 0.0.0-prealpha release! |
| 05:27.57 | Macrosoft | 0.0.0? |
| 05:28.20 | Macrosoft | 0.0.1a |
| 05:28.23 | jude- | no |
| 05:28.28 | jude- | 0.0.0-prealpha |
| 05:28.33 | jude- | nowhere near an alpha |
| 05:28.43 | jude- | but most of the data back-end is finished |
| 05:29.28 | jude- | hang on--let me get a plugin that'll give me a project line-count |
| 05:29.43 | *** part/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 05:37.35 | *** join/#bzflag Legoguy_ (n=Legoguy@adsl-71-143-233-150.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net) |
| 05:41.49 | jude- | here we go: |
| 05:41.50 | jude- | 8236 |
| 05:41.54 | jude- | lines of code in BZWorkbench |
| 05:41.54 | *** join/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 05:42.07 | jude- | Macrosoft: 8236 lines of code so far |
| 05:42.36 | Macrosoft | i think i finally got my monitor set up at the right res |
| 05:42.53 | jude- | that's good :) |
| 05:46.53 | *** join/#bzflag EbErT (n=EbErT@adsl-211-170-13.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 05:48.32 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (i=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 05:48.32 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 05:55.28 | jude- | hello L4m3r |
| 05:55.36 | L4m3r | evening jude- |
| 05:55.46 | jude- | how goes your GSoC project? |
| 05:56.02 | L4m3r | it shall start... tomorrow? |
| 05:56.20 | L4m3r | I need to rewrite the web stuff... the intended approach has changed significantly |
| 05:56.37 | jude- | I see |
| 05:57.03 | jude- | not too much needs to be rewritten I hope |
| 05:57.06 | L4m3r | my gf just left for the summer :( |
| 05:57.09 | AWOSLappy | O_o |
| 05:57.10 | AWOSLappy | o_O |
| 05:57.13 | L4m3r | jude-: heh, no code yet |
| 05:57.16 | AWOSLappy | why is ##c talking about python |
| 05:57.22 | L4m3r | just some... pre-documentation? |
| 05:57.44 | jude- | kk |
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| 05:58.20 | AWOSLappy | L4m3r: why did chillin leave!? |
| 05:58.31 | L4m3r | AWOSLappy: school is done |
| 05:58.37 | L4m3r | she's going home :P |
| 05:58.41 | AWOSLappy | Oh. |
| 05:59.19 | L4m3r | today we rode bicycles from ucla to the Venice boardwalk |
| 05:59.26 | L4m3r | :) |
| 05:59.48 | L4m3r | we were (are) both dead-tired but it was fun |
| 06:00.27 | AWOSLappy | L4m3r: :) |
| 06:00.30 | AWOSLappy | Sounds fun. |
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| 06:28.10 | findlay | it seemed like forever |
| 06:28.45 | findlay | that was way back in high school |
| 06:30.07 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QuantumB@doc-24-32-46-104.leesville.la.cebridge.net) |
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| 06:34.11 | *** join/#bzflag lodxcol (n=lodxcol@unaffiliated/lodxcol) |
| 06:34.54 | lodxcol | ~seen tadd |
| 06:35.15 | ibot | tadd <n=tadd@adsl-074-239-228-191.sip.mco.bellsouth.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 32d 2h 42m 59s ago, saying: 'gotta run. thanks for any info -- i'll read when I get up in the morning'. |
| 06:43.42 | *** join/#bzflag QBeep (n=QuantumB@doc-24-32-46-104.leesville.la.cebridge.net) |
| 06:46.20 | AWOSLappy | ~seen dreq |
| 06:46.22 | ibot | i haven't seen 'dreq', AWOSLappy |
| 06:46.26 | AWOSLappy | Bah. |
| 06:46.39 | AWOSLappy | Three years. Four pretty soon. |
| 06:49.17 | eTangenT | man |
| 06:49.25 | eTangenT | working at the bowling alley today taught me one thing |
| 06:49.28 | eTangenT | I HATE KIDS |
| 06:49.35 | eTangenT | high school kids, to be precise |
| 06:49.45 | eTangenT | in one group, we had the following occur: |
| 06:49.54 | eTangenT | a jamba juice smoothie spilled all over the place |
| 06:50.00 | eTangenT | beer spilled all over the lane approach |
| 06:50.09 | eTangenT | a scoreboard panel knocked off the ceiling |
| 06:50.28 | eTangenT | a lane malfunction because they hit the sweep so hard with a ball while it was lowered |
| 06:50.41 | eTangenT | and spilled coffee all over my shiny snack bar |
| 06:51.00 | eTangenT | Our mechanic was about to punch every one of them in the face. |
| 06:55.27 | findlay | ha |
| 06:55.51 | eTangenT | Yeah |
| 06:55.52 | eTangenT | fun night |
| 06:55.56 | eTangenT | tomorrow should be even better |
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| 07:20.28 | *** join/#bzflag Rawk (n=unknown@203.109.176.242) |
| 07:43.12 | jude- | how'd they knock the scoreboard panel off the ceiling? |
| 07:45.06 | AWOSLappy | I don't think I *want* to know |
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| 07:53.39 | jude- | hello Macrosoft |
| 07:53.46 | Macrosoft | need help with server |
| 07:54.27 | Macrosoft | error msg: * Operation too slow. Less than 1024 bytes/sec transfered the last 10 seconds |
| 07:54.34 | jude- | ouch |
| 07:57.46 | jude- | that a bzflag server? |
| 07:58.52 | Macrosoft | yeah |
| 08:00.03 | jude- | huh |
| 08:00.17 | jude- | anything else running on it? |
| 08:00.29 | a_temp_dist | 5 results appear when I search for that error on BZBB |
| 08:01.48 | Macrosoft | ive had the error before, but dont remember how to fix it |
| 08:03.00 | a_temp_dist | make sure you open the port you are using on both TCP and UDP, as well as port 80 |
| 08:05.18 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@vpn199-020.hrz.uni-oldenburg.de) |
| 08:08.36 | Macrosoft | a fix? you have a link? |
| 08:09.30 | a_temp_dist | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/search.php |
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| 14:59.24 | daxxar | amcnabb: Hi. :-) |
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| 16:07.52 | *** join/#bzflag fooey (n=foobar@196.202.15.200) |
| 16:08.16 | fooey | are there any human-friendly servers out there? |
| 16:08.26 | blast007 | hmm? |
| 16:08.30 | brad | lol |
| 16:08.58 | fooey | every server I've tried seems to be inhabited by immortals that have been playing this game forever |
| 16:09.06 | blast007 | hehe |
| 16:09.13 | brad | ~bzflist |
| 16:09.39 | brad | well, the top server is usually full of noobs |
| 16:09.47 | fooey | are there any strategy guides or some such? |
| 16:09.57 | fooey | brad, lodxcol? |
| 16:10.05 | brad | http://shellshock.bzflag.bz/ |
| 16:10.06 | Suspect | the forums have some guides |
| 16:10.29 | TimRiker | fooey: when starting, look for servers that have 2 or 3 players, and try that first. |
| 16:10.33 | TimRiker | less to keep track of. |
| 16:10.46 | fooey | TimRiker, good idea, I'll try that |
| 16:10.55 | Suspect | http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewforum.php?f=61&sid=41a8d2e487fdd1586b91e4b21e292dd8 |
| 16:11.04 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-3 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 16:11.05 | Suspect | "Tactics and Playstyles" |
| 16:11.16 | fooey | thanks Suspect |
| 16:11.32 | Suspect | Np :] |
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| 16:16.24 | Erroneous | fooey: "guides" section at http://shellshock.bzflag.bz/ is very helpful |
| 16:16.49 | fooey | Erroneous, yeah, I'm reading it at the momen |
| 16:16.55 | fooey | s/momen/moment/ |
| 16:17.01 | Erroneous | ah, cool |
| 16:17.35 | fooey | hehe :) |
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| 16:28.08 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
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| 16:51.05 | JeffM | what was the name of the toolkit jude is using for his gui? |
| 16:52.40 | JeffM | FLTK IIRC? |
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| 16:54.22 | brad | eclipse? or am I thinking or something else? |
| 16:54.29 | JeffM | that's his editor |
| 16:54.38 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 17:00.35 | davemicc | fltk, yes - http://www.fltk.org/ |
| 17:01.35 | JeffM | thanks |
| 17:04.23 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-3 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 17:09.07 | KTL | and supports 3D graphics via OpenGL |
| 17:09.09 | KTL | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:20.12 | Macrosoft | server back up |
| 17:21.08 | JeffM | the widgets are hella ugly tho :( |
| 17:23.15 | Macrosoft | i found the problem starting server |
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| 18:13.14 | TheRedBaron | Any reccomendations as to a SVN client for windows - I do know about tortoise |
| 18:14.16 | scott | TheRedBaron: debian.org |
| 18:14.32 | scott | oh, you said client.. |
| 18:14.38 | tannerld | scott: lol |
| 18:14.50 | *** part/#bzflag Macint (n=peterm@c-d2d6e155.2410-4-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 18:15.03 | CBG | command line FTW |
| 18:15.09 | Teppic | X2 |
| 18:15.11 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-3 (i=cia@208.69.182.149) |
| 18:15.41 | tannerld | X3 |
| 18:16.07 | TheRedBaron | how many of you have navigated a windows command line? |
| 18:16.28 | scott | i try not to |
| 18:16.35 | CBG | Ok, get a real OS and THEN use your command line. |
| 18:16.40 | Teppic | All the time |
| 18:16.53 | tannerld | TheRedBaron: I hate the windows cmd line. |
| 18:16.58 | Macrosoft | why |
| 18:17.00 | TheRedBaron | I have 3 real OSes |
| 18:17.09 | Macrosoft | navigating is about the same |
| 18:17.12 | Teppic | Tho, it is better to run a telnet server, then log into localhost with putty. |
| 18:17.23 | TheRedBaron | mac OSX, windows of all flavors and fedora |
| 18:17.32 | tannerld | Macrosoft: but "ls" is "dir" and "clear" is "cls" |
| 18:17.38 | Teppic | And the real one.... /me ducks... |
| 18:17.38 | Macrosoft | winXP and mandriva |
| 18:17.39 | CBG | TheRedBaron: so do it on anything BUT windows :P |
| 18:17.55 | Macrosoft | dir is dir |
| 18:17.58 | TheRedBaron | Macrosoft: its a whole different set of commands, as tannerld points out |
| 18:18.08 | Teppic | SVN works fine from CLI in dows |
| 18:18.10 | Macrosoft | not for me |
| 18:18.21 | Macrosoft | i use cd and dir in linux too |
| 18:18.31 | Macrosoft | works fine |
| 18:18.42 | tannerld | TheRedBaron: (darn dir does work in linux...) |
| 18:18.49 | Teppic | ls doesn't work in windows |
| 18:18.51 | Macrosoft | rd rm |
| 18:18.58 | tannerld | cls doesn't work in linux :P |
| 18:19.01 | CBG | nothing works in windows, Teppic |
| 18:19.04 | Macrosoft | yeah |
| 18:19.11 | TD-Linux | Macrosoft, dir works in Linux, but ls pwnz dir |
| 18:19.16 | TD-Linux | ls gives you pretty colored output |
| 18:19.28 | Macrosoft | ooh, colors! |
| 18:19.47 | Teppic | Yeah, cmd doesn't do colour |
| 18:19.55 | Teppic | You can get bash for windows. |
| 18:20.02 | scott | cygwin? |
| 18:20.06 | TD-Linux | msys? |
| 18:20.08 | Teppic | Don't think so |
| 18:20.15 | Macrosoft | or you could just use linux :) |
| 18:20.29 | Teppic | I have on my test machine for grepping logs, grep is great. |
| 18:20.36 | TD-Linux | or *BSD or Solaris or Unix or Mac etc |
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| 18:28.06 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone] by ChanServ |
| 18:29.19 | blast007 | TheRedBaron: why not just use Tortoise SVN? |
| 18:31.01 | blast007 | and for those of you wanting unixish commands on Windows, there is the unxutils package |
| 18:31.11 | blast007 | I can run 'ls' on my command prompt :) |
| 18:31.48 | davemicc | awesome |
| 18:32.15 | rob1n | heh |
| 18:32.26 | TheRedBaron | blast007: Thats what I resorted to |
| 18:32.37 | davemicc | I'm gonna install that at school |
| 18:32.42 | blast007 | davemicc: hehe |
| 18:32.43 | TheRedBaron | was just curious if there was something that would have been better for a svn newb |
| 18:32.51 | blast007 | and the best part, it's not even an installer |
| 18:43.11 | menotume | What if we want windows-sh gui on linux? :P |
| 18:44.12 | Macrosoft | you should ditch windows and get linux |
| 18:44.29 | scott | menotume: xorg |
| 18:44.30 | scott | :) |
| 18:44.44 | Macrosoft | that would solve all those <linux-stuff> on win32 problems |
| 18:51.05 | TD-Linux | menotume, who would ever want a windows-ish gui on linux??? |
| 19:02.45 | Macrosoft | *ping* |
| 19:04.10 | Macrosoft | ::no pongs were received from "irc.kde.org" |
| 19:04.53 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 19:08.01 | Macrosoft | *ping irc.kde.org* |
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| 19:47.28 | TheRedBaron | pardon the OT - is there any good articles /manuals online for a SVN newb? |
| 19:47.43 | JeffM | your client should have come with one |
| 19:49.23 | JeffM | CBG, give people the benifitof the doubt, davy jones posted exactly when you did |
| 19:50.29 | CBG | JeffM: that's why I felt that it was pointless, but whatever. remove it and ban me if you want to. |
| 19:50.39 | JeffM | why are you so ban happy? |
| 19:50.49 | JeffM | I'm just asking you to be a little nicer |
| 19:50.58 | JeffM | he didn't see your post when he was posting |
| 19:51.02 | Winny | but thats part of his charm :( |
| 19:51.34 | Tedius | ~CBG-- |
| 19:51.36 | CBG | I'm not ban happy, it's just that if you have an issue with me, you can remove it or let it go. |
| 19:51.52 | JeffM | or I can try to work with you to prevent it from happening again |
| 19:51.59 | JeffM | not all things are black or white |
| 19:52.08 | JeffM | so much for just trying to talk to you , sheesh |
| 19:52.41 | CBG | haha. oh, the irony. |
| 19:52.53 | JeffM | I never said I couldn't learn from my past |
| 19:52.57 | JeffM | I guess you can't |
| 19:52.58 | JeffM | oh well |
| 19:53.36 | CBG | It's not a case of whether I can or not, it's whether I chose to or not. |
| 19:53.43 | QBeep | CBG, humans have been communicating with words for tens of thousands of years. It's so easy, a caveman could do it. |
| 19:53.46 | QBeep | Don't be a cave man. |
| 19:53.47 | CBG | Not that I said anything about you "learning from your past". |
| 19:53.53 | JeffM | for us, it dosn't matter, what the internal reason is, the end result is the same |
| 19:54.07 | JeffM | your not willing to have a discusson on it |
| 19:54.09 | JeffM | fair enough |
| 19:56.50 | *** join/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=a_temp_d@about/essy/alarming/a-temp-dist) |
| 19:57.11 | TheRedBaron | JeffM: I'm using tortoise and on brief scan of their manual, it seemed geared on how to use tortoise, I'm looking for something to teach me what SVN is |
| 19:57.38 | TheRedBaron | its akin to me having a c++ compiler, and reading the c++ compiler manual, to learn c++ |
| 19:58.00 | JeffM | then the subversion main site should have docs on the concepts of subversion |
| 19:58.13 | JBdiGriz | http://subversion.tigris.org/ |
| 19:58.22 | *** join/#bzflag wanda (n=coredump@p549994F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:59.42 | davemicc | there is an online book about subversion there |
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| 20:00.09 | blast007 | TheRedBaron: "svn help" |
| 20:00.28 | davemicc | "Subversion Book" - http://svnbook.red-bean.com/ |
| 20:00.29 | TheRedBaron | thanks guys |
| 20:01.58 | ruskie | argh... why does bzflag links to glew but nothing actually mentions that... |
| 20:02.49 | JeffM | ruskie, cus it's optional |
| 20:02.50 | Erroneous | doesn't need to |
| 20:03.00 | JeffM | our default windows build just uses that option |
| 20:03.08 | JeffM | IIRC there is a build target that dosn't |
| 20:03.19 | ruskie | it's not listed with a --without-glew option last I checked |
| 20:03.37 | Erroneous | iirc, if it finds the headers, it uses it, otherwise, it doesn't |
| 20:03.39 | JeffM | it defaults to off |
| 20:03.43 | JeffM | yeah |
| 20:03.46 | Erroneous | if you have the headers and not the lib, you'll have some problems |
| 20:04.05 | ruskie | if I have the headers I have the libs... |
| 20:04.15 | ruskie | I don't run inherently broken distros |
| 20:04.17 | JeffM | I think that is true with a number of things |
| 20:04.18 | tupone | and that means it should be always included as a dependency, on system like portage :/ |
| 20:04.32 | ruskie | yeah |
| 20:04.35 | ruskie | or risk having it break |
| 20:04.39 | tupone | and that is bad |
| 20:04.53 | ruskie | though just adding a --with/without-glew would solve it |
| 20:05.03 | JeffM | glew is a simple lib why not require it |
| 20:05.24 | JeffM | Erroneous, he could have had a bin |
| 20:05.28 | JeffM | made on a system with glew |
| 20:05.31 | JeffM | but he dosn't have glew |
| 20:05.32 | Erroneous | ah |
| 20:05.38 | Erroneous | silly binary people |
| 20:05.38 | tupone | and deploy in an other |
| 20:05.40 | JeffM | since it's not a dep in the package.... |
| 20:05.41 | ruskie | JeffM, then list it as required somewhere and fail configure if it's not there |
| 20:05.51 | JeffM | ruskie, I agree |
| 20:05.52 | JeffM | fix it up :) |
| 20:06.05 | Erroneous | configure detects it! if you're running configure, it's not a requirement |
| 20:06.23 | ruskie | I don't mind if it's a dep or not... but it should be possible to a) either disable it even if found or b) alawys need it and fail without it |
| 20:06.25 | tupone | you can build binary package, and configure does not run on that |
| 20:06.29 | JeffM | the package builder should include it as a dep if it build with it. |
| 20:06.38 | Erroneous | tupone: he's saying "fail configure if it's not there" |
| 20:06.45 | Erroneous | why should we fail if it's not found? |
| 20:06.49 | Erroneous | we can build without it |
| 20:07.00 | Erroneous | it's up to whoever builds the packages to set the dependencies properly |
| 20:07.20 | ruskie | Erroneous, then provide an option to disable it |
| 20:07.23 | JeffM | dosn't the build system build some of the packages? like the debian one? |
| 20:07.29 | ruskie | if it's there some people might NOT want it |
| 20:07.34 | tupone | just hate the automatic things, It's bad for building binary |
| 20:07.40 | ruskie | Erroneous, it's called choice |
| 20:07.45 | JeffM | ruskie, he's saying if oyu have an option to disable it, your runing config, and if oyu don't have it it'll not use it |
| 20:07.50 | Erroneous | if you want choice, build it yourself |
| 20:07.57 | ruskie | I do build it myself |
| 20:08.01 | ruskie | but I can't control itn |
| 20:08.09 | Erroneous | sure you can |
| 20:08.09 | JeffM | then if you don't have glew, it should not be trying to use it |
| 20:08.15 | Erroneous | edit config.h |
| 20:08.18 | JeffM | do you or do you not have glew? |
| 20:08.20 | ruskie | I have it but I don't want to use it |
| 20:08.23 | Erroneous | why not? |
| 20:08.24 | JeffM | ahh |
| 20:08.26 | JeffM | yeah why not? |
| 20:08.29 | JeffM | it's kewl ;) |
| 20:08.37 | ruskie | it's an extra thing to have installed |
| 20:08.37 | JeffM | gives anios |
| 20:08.42 | JeffM | you have it installed |
| 20:08.48 | ruskie | only due to this |
| 20:08.56 | JeffM | if you didn't have it installed, it not have used it |
| 20:08.59 | Erroneous | you didn't have to install it |
| 20:09.00 | JeffM | it's NOT A REQUIREMENT |
| 20:09.22 | JeffM | uninstall glew, rebuild, you'll get a build sans glew |
| 20:09.33 | JeffM | it's not a hard dep |
| 20:09.35 | ruskie | it is |
| 20:09.40 | JeffM | no |
| 20:09.40 | ruskie | you don't offer a way to disable it |
| 20:09.45 | JeffM | take it out |
| 20:09.50 | JeffM | remove glew |
| 20:09.52 | tupone | ruskie, I suppose you are not talking for yourself, but for the distro you contribute. AM I wrong? |
| 20:09.53 | JeffM | you won't link to it |
| 20:10.02 | ruskie | tupone, you're not wrong |
| 20:10.06 | Erroneous | if you're packaging, and you build with it, it is a hard dependency, yes |
| 20:10.16 | JeffM | ir your not then it isn't |
| 20:10.21 | JeffM | are you making a package? |
| 20:10.28 | JeffM | or a bin to send elsewhere? |
| 20:11.04 | ruskie | it's a source distro that provides choice to users |
| 20:11.18 | JeffM | if it's source they run config right? |
| 20:11.23 | ruskie | so even if something is INSTALLED but is NOT needed to run an app the user can say NO to it and it SHOULD NOT link |
| 20:11.38 | Erroneous | huh? crippling software unnecessarily? |
| 20:11.49 | JeffM | if you have it where you build, why not use it? |
| 20:11.58 | JeffM | unless that bin is going to go elsewhere |
| 20:12.04 | tupone | maybe you want to remove then the glew, and there is no sign you need to regenerate, or you don't want |
| 20:12.40 | Erroneous | what do you gain by not using it when you have it? |
| 20:12.48 | Erroneous | not using it when you don't have it, I can see |
| 20:12.50 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsang@88-108-150-171.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:12.54 | tupone | the gain that you can remove it safely |
| 20:12.59 | JeffM | it dosn't change the default behavor in BZ, it just enables a menu option |
| 20:13.04 | jftsang | hi |
| 20:13.09 | jftsang | ~stats |
| 20:13.09 | ibot | Since Thu Jun 14 17:33:51 2007, there have been 7 modifications, 174 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 135 commands. I have been awake for 1d 2h 39m 18s this session, and currently reference 113102 factoids. I'm using about 19212 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 1976.29/173.53 child 0/0 |
| 20:13.51 | ruskie | let's try it this way: I install FOO which can use mysql and where I want it, then I want to install BAR that can optionaly use mysql but I don't want it in BAR so I want to disable it |
| 20:13.54 | tupone | unless the library is loaded runtime |
| 20:14.00 | ruskie | is that so HARD to understand |
| 20:14.17 | JeffM | that's a difrent case then glew and BZ tho |
| 20:14.22 | Erroneous | yes, why don't you want it in BAR? |
| 20:14.34 | Erroneous | you cannot provide a single reason not to want glew in bz |
| 20:14.44 | JeffM | cus then he could not complain ;) |
| 20:14.58 | Erroneous | mm, banana |
| 20:15.06 | ruskie | super banana bomb |
| 20:15.10 | blast007 | I'll get the ice cream |
| 20:15.16 | JeffM | I think the features we get from glew should be in all builds |
| 20:15.18 | JeffM | not option |
| 20:15.24 | JeffM | but that's due to the features |
| 20:15.35 | Erroneous | it *is* tiny, maybe we should just distribute it in src/other |
| 20:15.36 | JeffM | not for the sake of user choice |
| 20:15.46 | JeffM | yeah why not |
| 20:15.51 | ruskie | I don't really care if it's in hard or optional... but the way it currently is it's neither |
| 20:16.01 | ruskie | it's $random |
| 20:16.02 | JeffM | it's optional at build time based on install |
| 20:16.05 | JeffM | no it's NOT random |
| 20:16.06 | tupone | distributing things without supporting i sbad for security update |
| 20:16.09 | ruskie | it is $random |
| 20:16.13 | JeffM | no |
| 20:16.18 | JeffM | it folows a logic |
| 20:16.21 | JeffM | you just don't like that logic |
| 20:16.44 | Erroneous | if it exists at build time, it's used. if it doesn't, it's not. not even terribly *difficult* logic |
| 20:16.53 | ruskie | broken logic |
| 20:16.59 | JeffM | no it's not broken |
| 20:17.03 | blast007 | broken how? |
| 20:17.04 | JeffM | you just don't like it |
| 20:17.07 | JeffM | it follows THOSE rules |
| 20:17.09 | JeffM | that's it |
| 20:17.29 | JeffM | if it dosn't foloow those rules then it is broken |
| 20:17.44 | JeffM | you haven't shown how it dosn't follow those rules |
| 20:17.50 | tupone | We need to control and list in some way the dependency, indipendently of the current status of the build system, glew should be in or out, or conditionally, but not conditionated by the state of the build system |
| 20:18.03 | JeffM | tupone, for a package, bin I totlay agree |
| 20:18.38 | tupone | I'm talking about that, and even for a sorce based system, you can build binary package |
| 20:18.52 | JeffM | for it's features I think we shoudl use it all the time |
| 20:19.04 | JeffM | specialy for it's extension detection |
| 20:19.11 | tupone | so is a mandatory dependency then |
| 20:19.16 | JeffM | then we can clean up a lot of that gl version #def |
| 20:19.17 | JeffM | it can be |
| 20:19.21 | JeffM | I'd like it to be |
| 20:19.24 | JeffM | right now it is not |
| 20:19.30 | JeffM | it only does one thing right now |
| 20:19.39 | JeffM | the aniso mode |
| 20:19.46 | JeffM | and the code is set to work with or with out it |
| 20:19.53 | tupone | well, if is not, should not be detected automatically, or be if nobody override that, as all the external library included |
| 20:20.09 | JeffM | I can see it working like SDL |
| 20:20.14 | JeffM | we prefer SDL if we find it |
| 20:20.21 | JeffM | but we also have an off swithc for it |
| 20:20.24 | tupone | yeah, with SDL, you can ask to remove, IIRC |
| 20:20.26 | JeffM | and the bz code can work with or with out |
| 20:20.33 | JeffM | yeah, that is an inconsistency I see |
| 20:20.40 | JeffM | so I can see rasons for a disable |
| 20:21.04 | JeffM | ruskie was just not able to provide reasons for his case |
| 20:21.26 | ruskie | plain reason: CHOICE |
| 20:21.33 | tupone | the only reason I provide is from the package building for distro, source or binary |
| 20:21.45 | JeffM | there is a choice now, it' just not consistent with the other choices. |
| 20:22.01 | JeffM | so the reaosn I can see is consistency in choices |
| 20:22.27 | JeffM | I fear there may be other libs that are detected automaticly and don't have a disable |
| 20:22.36 | ruskie | most likely |
| 20:22.37 | Erroneous | yup, there are |
| 20:22.41 | Erroneous | SDL_image is one |
| 20:22.44 | tupone | and all should be fixed :/ |
| 20:22.49 | JeffM | they should all be made consistent |
| 20:23.10 | tupone | otherwise, for gentoo, all should be mandatory |
| 20:23.12 | JeffM | but even with SDL in a bin package, how does the package know if it is dependent on SDL or not? |
| 20:23.35 | JeffM | is that up to the package builder when they make one from a build? to know what they linked with? |
| 20:23.43 | JeffM | or does the build system provide a list of things it built with? |
| 20:23.44 | tupone | in gentoo you will tell him with use flags |
| 20:23.57 | JeffM | can the build system make those flags for you? |
| 20:24.01 | JeffM | based on what it did or did not find? |
| 20:24.18 | tupone | with the use flag you can govern the configure step |
| 20:24.24 | JeffM | ahh ok |
| 20:24.25 | *** join/#bzflag wanda (n=coredump@p549994F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:24.43 | blast007 | gentoo would grab what it needed based on the use flag |
| 20:24.45 | JeffM | so if you did not have using_SDL, it'd tell configure--disable_SDL right? |
| 20:25.10 | ruskie | same for source mage |
| 20:25.11 | JeffM | and that's right, gentoo dosn't do bins |
| 20:25.29 | tupone | if you tell gentoo not to build with sdl (is a crazy example) ./configure --without-sdl will be called |
| 20:25.46 | tupone | gentoo can build bins package |
| 20:25.58 | tupone | but they have to be used with the same use flag |
| 20:25.58 | JeffM | ok then I can see reasons for doing the same with glew |
| 20:26.02 | tupone | I don't use it |
| 20:26.03 | JeffM | or we require it |
| 20:26.16 | JeffM | and at that point we decide if we do it as an external lib, or build it |
| 20:26.37 | JeffM | it's small, and has a low probability of security problems since it's just GL calls |
| 20:26.45 | JeffM | so I'd think we can include it |
| 20:26.45 | tupone | I vote for external libs, as for securoty update |
| 20:26.52 | JeffM | it's a GL wraper |
| 20:27.11 | tupone | given the pace of bzflag release |
| 20:27.19 | ruskie | it should atleast support external |
| 20:27.33 | JeffM | then that has the same problem for a bin release |
| 20:27.42 | JeffM | do we staticly link it or dynaicly link it? |
| 20:28.26 | ruskie | doesn't the same currently happen with c-ares? |
| 20:28.26 | blast007 | Security issues have been identified that could allow an attacker to compromise a system running GLEW and gain control over the top left pixel on the screen. |
| 20:28.27 | tupone | dynamic |
| 20:28.56 | JeffM | having it in the tree would be nice for windows |
| 20:29.06 | JeffM | if you can have it cleanly pick, tha'td be optimal |
| 20:29.14 | JeffM | yeah maybe it is like ares |
| 20:29.23 | blast007 | it's not hard to install GLEW though |
| 20:29.23 | JeffM | tho ares is a hard code dependency |
| 20:29.27 | JeffM | bz will not run with out it |
| 20:29.32 | JeffM | yeah it is not |
| 20:29.34 | JeffM | to hard |
| 20:29.39 | JeffM | but it'd be easier if we didn't :) |
| 20:30.09 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=TD-Linux@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 20:30.34 | JeffM | or just swap it all over to a real engine, then it'd not be needed at all :) |
| 20:31.12 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 20:32.04 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 20:48.04 | *** join/#bzflag Jefenry (n=jeffreyd@pool-71-253-253-185.nrflva.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:53.39 | Jefenry | wow, this guy in planet mofo got sw and F5'd into the OO bunkers |
| 20:57.08 | a_meteorite | Jefenry: frankly, that's not surprising.. |
| 20:58.20 | Jefenry | i thought F5 only worked on thin walls, and those bunkers were too thick |
| 20:58.31 | a_meteorite | not if you press it enough ;) |
| 20:58.45 | Jefenry | haha |
| 21:00.08 | L4m3r | I think I know how he did it |
| 21:13.51 | *** join/#bzflag Teppic (n=Teppic@5ac71558.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:19.44 | *** join/#bzflag Winny (n=BZ_Win_@CPE0016b6de59f3-CM000f9fac8236.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
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| 21:32.03 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dyndsl-085-016-023-129.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:51.53 | *** part/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 21:58.27 | *** join/#bzflag wanda (n=coredump@p549994F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:06.18 | *** join/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) |
| 22:09.42 | *** join/#bzflag Tedius_GoCavs (n=Tedius@adsl-76-205-107-200.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:13.36 | jftsang | hi tedius |
| 22:13.40 | jftsang | im staying up late |
| 22:13.53 | Winny | your l33t |
| 22:14.20 | jftsang | nah not rly |
| 22:14.27 | brad | ~leet Winny |
| 22:14.30 | jftsang | im "winding down" after exams |
| 22:14.36 | jftsang | ~leet Winny |
| 22:14.39 | jftsang | what does that do |
| 22:14.45 | brad | nothing apparently :) |
| 22:16.10 | *** join/#bzflag bujkyl (n=heath@c-71-207-245-33.hsd1.al.comcast.net) |
| 22:22.55 | *** part/#bzflag wanda (n=coredump@p549994F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:23.01 | *** join/#bzflag wanda (n=coredump@p549994F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:55.09 | *** join/#bzflag bier__ (n=bier@p54A53CE6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:59.43 | *** join/#bzflag nn-away (n=nn-away@67.62.184.203) |
| 23:17.11 | Macrosoft | what does it mean when someone on irc puts a ~ before a word |
| 23:17.13 | Macrosoft | ? |
| 23:17.32 | blast007 | depends |
| 23:17.39 | CBG | it means they are telling you that you are teh suc |
| 23:17.39 | blast007 | the first word? probably triggering a bot |
| 23:17.55 | JeffM | some bots have command characters they look for |
| 23:18.03 | blast007 | ~ping |
| 23:18.03 | ibot | pong |
| 23:18.08 | Macrosoft | bots? on irc? |
| 23:18.11 | JeffM | yeah |
| 23:18.18 | JeffM | ibot isn't a real person |
| 23:18.22 | JeffM | hence the name "bot" in it's name |
| 23:18.31 | CBG | ~lart Macrosoft |
| 23:18.31 | ibot | teaches Macrosoft that M$ Access is a database. No, really, a database. A real live multi-user... well, ok, not multi-user, but a database. Yeah, that sounds right. |
| 23:18.39 | CBG | hah |
| 23:19.00 | Macrosoft | what are the bots for? |
| 23:19.04 | JeffM | difrent stuff |
| 23:19.14 | JeffM | ibot mostly for factoid use and checking on servers |
| 23:19.16 | Macrosoft | ~explode |
| 23:19.16 | ibot | BOOOM |
| 23:19.18 | CBG | They log, for a start. |
| 23:19.25 | JeffM | other channels use them for other reasons |
| 23:19.28 | CBG | They also will remember things for you. |
| 23:19.31 | CBG | ~bzsvn |
| 23:19.32 | ibot | [bzsvn] http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag bzflag |
| 23:19.34 | JeffM | they are not here to be abbused |
| 23:20.00 | tannerld | CBG: well, they only remember things for you if you remember to remember the command to remember the thing you wanted to remember, go it? :P |
| 23:20.07 | CBG | Like that ^. And they can be used for humorous things, like lart, explode, etc - just keep that stuff in other channels. ;) |
| 23:20.14 | CBG | tannerld: heh |
| 23:20.23 | Macrosoft | ~remember the stuff they said |
| 23:20.24 | ibot | How can i forget about the stuff they said ? That person is the greatest <fill in whatever is appropriate> in the whole wide world ! |
| 23:20.42 | Macrosoft | so... whats lart do |
| 23:20.47 | JeffM | insults somone |
| 23:21.02 | Macrosoft | ~lart Macrosoft |
| 23:21.02 | ibot | whacks Macrosoft with the cluebat |
| 23:21.27 | Macrosoft | ~fly |
| 23:21.27 | ibot | ACTION flies a F16, or http://photos.photosig.com/photos/85/49/1144985-bf2effb0adcf81c9.jpg |
| 23:21.53 | blast007 | ~botpark |
| 23:21.53 | ibot | #BotPark is a channel for testing and talking to irc bots. Please do not talk to the bots too much in normal channels. You may msg them or talk in #BotPark |
| 23:21.53 | Macrosoft | wow, thats a command? |
| 23:21.53 | JeffM | you can experiment with the bot in ether botpark, or /msg |
| 23:21.53 | CBG | heh. FAIL. |
| 23:21.53 | JeffM | read it's help |
| 23:21.53 | JeffM | or hit up #infobot |
| 23:21.54 | Macrosoft | i was just making up commands |
| 23:21.57 | CBG | It's a factoid, I would guess, Macrosoft. |
| 23:22.05 | CBG | Like I said, keep that stuff in other channels... |
| 23:22.10 | JeffM | most things it does is factoids |
| 23:23.36 | Macrosoft | ok... ~crucify isnt a command |
| 23:23.44 | JeffM | yeah, so? |
| 23:23.58 | nn-away | hi JeffM |
| 23:23.59 | Macrosoft | just picking random words to try |
| 23:24.02 | JeffM | hello |
| 23:24.05 | blast007 | Macrosoft: thanks for sharing |
| 23:24.08 | JeffM | Macrosoft, ok fine, we care why? |
| 23:24.53 | Macrosoft | <sarcasm>because you are warm and caring individuals</sarcasm> |
| 23:25.04 | a_meteorite | no, we hate you! |
| 23:25.13 | a_meteorite | ;) |
| 23:25.14 | JeffM | a_meteorite, be nice |
| 23:25.16 | Erroneous | we may be (you might be surprised), but that does not change the fact that this channel is about bzflag |
| 23:25.22 | a_meteorite | JeffM: I was kidding, wink wink |
| 23:27.37 | nn-away | a_meteorite where you looking at my host? |
| 23:27.58 | a_meteorite | nn-away: I need some more info, bandwidth per month I can use, connection speed |
| 23:28.35 | JeffM | is it a datacenter machine? or a home machine? |
| 23:32.45 | nn-away | a_meteorite as of now i have 760kbit unlimited a month and within a year hopefully in a fiew weeks im updating to 2Mbits unlimited bandwith; |
| 23:33.07 | nn-away | thoes are up load speeds |
| 23:33.07 | JeffM | so it's a home connection |
| 23:33.15 | blast007 | comcast business |
| 23:33.19 | nn-away | no right now bisness |
| 23:33.19 | JeffM | meh |
| 23:33.25 | JeffM | it's not datacenter |
| 23:33.30 | JeffM | to me that is home :) |
| 23:33.37 | nn-away | not yet |
| 23:33.40 | nn-away | lol |
| 23:33.45 | a_meteorite | for the life of me, I can't figure out how to use blender even with a tutorial.. |
| 23:33.50 | JeffM | you don't run data centers off of cable modems :) |
| 23:33.51 | nn-away | well it has 5 statics |
| 23:33.54 | a_meteorite | (trying to UV map a mesh) |
| 23:34.13 | a_meteorite | or object. however you want to call it. :\ |
| 23:34.13 | blast007 | a_meteorite: can't Wings do UV mapping too? |
| 23:34.33 | a_meteorite | blast007: I'd still need a tutorial :) I'll check though |
| 23:34.37 | nn-away | JeffM i dont have $2000 per month to spend on internet |
| 23:34.56 | a_meteorite | nn-away: you can get a good dedicated server for ~$100/month |
| 23:34.57 | JeffM | you can get a datacenter machine for udner 100 a month |
| 23:34.57 | a_meteorite | sometimes less |
| 23:35.01 | JeffM | yeah |
| 23:35.08 | TD-Linux | blender UV mapping is weird I think |
| 23:35.25 | TD-Linux | if you can use one of the default maps, do that |
| 23:35.37 | Macrosoft | ~karma |
| 23:35.37 | ibot | macrosoft has karma of 1 |
| 23:35.47 | blast007 | ~Macrosoft-- |
| 23:35.51 | blast007 | *cough* |
| 23:36.08 | Winny | hehe |
| 23:36.22 | Macrosoft | ~blast007-- |
| 23:36.22 | JeffM | ~macrosoft -- ( anoyance) |
| 23:36.32 | JeffM | ~blast007 ++ |
| 23:36.32 | nn-away | ya well i cant beat that right now so i can onily do what i can |
| 23:36.42 | JeffM | Macrosoft, don't go there |
| 23:36.54 | Winny | ~Macrosoft-- |
| 23:37.04 | blast007 | anyway, enough karma wars ;D |
| 23:37.06 | JeffM | nn-away, with your current upstream, don't overhost 768 will fill out fast |
| 23:37.13 | Macrosoft | ~Macrosoft = -100 |
| 23:37.14 | Erroneous | indeed, blast007 |
| 23:37.21 | JeffM | Macrosoft, stop it, now |
| 23:37.28 | Winny | JeffM, I seem to get about 20-25 out of my 800kbits |
| 23:37.39 | nn-away | that is why im giting 2 Mbits asap |
| 23:37.41 | JeffM | yeah but at the rate he was offein hosting :) |
| 23:37.45 | blast007 | Winny: 20-25 what? players? |
| 23:37.46 | Winny | hehe |
| 23:37.53 | Winny | blast007, yes, players |
| 23:37.58 | blast007 | not bad |
| 23:38.07 | Erroneous | that's about right |
| 23:38.08 | blast007 | I think I couldn't do much over 6 on my 256 |
| 23:38.13 | Winny | never had over 25, tho :p |
| 23:38.29 | Erroneous | I'd expect 15ish on 800 |
| 23:38.29 | Winny | ;) |
| 23:38.51 | Erroneous | assuming relatively high shotcount, and all on one server |
| 23:38.54 | Winny | What settings? I never set up servers with more then 3 shots, and they never have flags |
| 23:39.03 | Erroneous | ah, that frees things up quite a bit then |
| 23:39.16 | Macrosoft | whos server are you trying to fill? |
| 23:39.19 | nn-away | right now i'm paying $100 per month an when i swithch i will be paying over $150 |
| 23:39.25 | Winny | ?! |
| 23:39.29 | Winny | holy hell... |
| 23:39.29 | blast007 | wow... |
| 23:39.42 | blast007 | you're getting ripped off :) |
| 23:39.51 | nn-away | y for 3 hosts that is a lot |
| 23:39.52 | Erroneous | comcast is always a ripoff blast007 :) |
| 23:39.53 | Winny | you can get a nice system for ~50-100$ at a colo/dedicated server place |
| 23:40.07 | Winny | *cough* 1and1 |
| 23:40.10 | blast007 | I pay $74 for a 10mbit line, with 1TB of bandwidth/month |
| 23:40.13 | Macrosoft | who pays that much for comcast!? |
| 23:40.21 | tannerld | JeffM: what font is used on the bzflag menus? |
| 23:40.23 | blast007 | Macrosoft: everyone...? |
| 23:40.27 | Winny | who pays that much for anything? :p |
| 23:40.28 | blast007 | he has the business account |
| 23:40.31 | Macrosoft | i dont |
| 23:40.38 | nn-away | um but that isnt a host that you compleatly own is it lol i own these |
| 23:40.47 | Erroneous | tannerld: Toga Sans |
| 23:40.55 | tannerld | Erroneous: meci |
| 23:40.56 | blast007 | nn-away: nope, but I get a 2.53GHz Celeron |
| 23:41.37 | nn-away | um yes but that has a bandwith limit this dosent |
| 23:41.43 | blast007 | sure it does |
| 23:41.50 | blast007 | I can use more than you can |
| 23:42.00 | blast007 | I can sustain around 3mbps for the whole month |
| 23:42.02 | Erroneous | tannerld: the png font dumps are in data (or data\fonts on 2.2) if you're interested |
| 23:42.06 | blast007 | you'll be maxing at 2mbps |
| 23:42.13 | blast007 | I can burst all the way up to 10 |
| 23:42.17 | tannerld | Erroneous: k, thanks |
| 23:42.20 | Erroneous | the original ttfs are not in the repo, but can be provided if you're interested |
| 23:42.20 | a_meteorite | 1TB allows for about 3.1Mbit/s continuously up and down |
| 23:42.22 | a_meteorite | yeah |
| 23:42.22 | Macrosoft | does comcast's normal home internet service have a bandwith/month limit? |
| 23:42.23 | blast007 | there will be times of high and low activity |
| 23:42.33 | Erroneous | and so can the tool to output pngs |
| 23:42.36 | blast007 | so my server connection will allow for those highs |
| 23:42.39 | a_meteorite | Macrosoft: of course it does |
| 23:42.46 | JeffM | tannerld, I don't know, one of the 3 |
| 23:42.49 | a_meteorite | plus they probably block ports needed for servers |
| 23:42.52 | JeffM | should be in a bzdb var somewhere |
| 23:43.06 | Macrosoft | i run a server, doesnt block me |
| 23:43.07 | a_meteorite | like port 80, and ones for e-mail servers |
| 23:43.24 | blast007 | a_meteorite: they might not block it, but they might make it against their TOS |
| 23:43.30 | tannerld | JeffM: think Erroneous answered; thanks though |
| 23:43.36 | a_meteorite | blast007: a lot of ISPs do block it.. so who knows |
| 23:43.47 | Erroneous | it is a violation of comcast's TOS to run a server on their residential connections |
| 23:43.49 | blast007 | my ISP only blocks 80, and possibly SMTP |
| 23:43.55 | a_meteorite | but the business plan should allow all that, for sure (that doesn't mean it's better quality than a dedicated server) |
| 23:44.18 | Erroneous | of course, their TOS is written in broad enough terms that it covers just about ANY connectable service |
| 23:44.19 | findlay | comcast is pretty much evil |
| 23:44.23 | a_meteorite | my ISP doesn't block anything, and I've ran servers before. they've never complained to us or charged us. :) |
| 23:44.24 | Erroneous | i.e. RDP |
| 23:44.41 | JeffM | ISPs only generaly care if somone complains |
| 23:44.44 | JeffM | or you flood the pipe |
| 23:44.44 | a_meteorite | though the upload sucks too much to run anything worthwhile |
| 23:44.49 | JeffM | torrents, etc.. |
| 23:44.52 | a_meteorite | oh, I flood the pipe alright.. |
| 23:45.03 | JeffM | RIAA come a knockin, TOS gets reviewed RIGHT quick |
| 23:45.05 | Macrosoft | quote: "comcast is pretty much evil" damn right |
| 23:45.49 | JeffM | I was just indicating that at the rate nn was pushing his hosting on bzbb, he should be carefull to not give out more then he can host. |
| 23:45.56 | a_meteorite | yeah |
| 23:46.03 | Macrosoft | RIAA takes you away, never to be seen again |
| 23:46.05 | JeffM | who's payin for it? and does your work know or care? |
| 23:46.27 | blast007 | doubt he has it at his workplace |
| 23:46.33 | findlay | we have community fiber out here |
| 23:46.35 | JeffM | Macrosoft, seriously, you can stop it, your not being funny or contribuing. |
| 23:46.36 | blast007 | he probably paid for the business plan at his own place |
| 23:46.38 | JeffM | ahh |
| 23:46.52 | *** join/#bzflag ep (n=mdr@about/essy/guynextdoor/ep) |
| 23:46.58 | JeffM | bet that ain't cheap |
| 23:47.13 | blast007 | 17:36:11 < nn-away> right now i'm paying $100 per month an when i swithch i will be paying over $150 |
| 23:47.19 | JeffM | wow |
| 23:47.30 | a_meteorite | a dedicated server would own that connection |
| 23:47.31 | JeffM | why not get a dedi box at a datacenter |
| 23:47.37 | JeffM | and be the same price or cheaper |
| 23:47.38 | findlay | I can get ~12 Mb/s for way less than that |
| 23:47.43 | nn-away | jeffm I am trying to be more carful on bzbb |
| 23:47.44 | Erroneous | heh, some people have already suggested that |
| 23:47.53 | JeffM | tho you'd have to discount the fact that you'd still have to pay for base cable |
| 23:48.03 | JeffM | how much is the base home connection? |
| 23:48.08 | blast007 | I could probably colo my 4U server for less tha $150 :P |
| 23:48.16 | JeffM | sorry , I had to talk to bob about polar interpolation :) |
| 23:48.23 | Erroneous | heh |
| 23:48.38 | JeffM | nn-away, your paying for this out of pocket? |
| 23:58.24 | *** part/#bzflag Tedius (n=Tedius@adsl-76-205-107-200.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net) |
