| 00:00.36 | brlcad | a_meteorite: the crash is really loosely related to event processing and keyboard events in particular it seems .. from the looks I'd say it's a bug in Cocoa, but it might be one that we're provoking ... did you make an SDL build? what version? |
| 00:00.57 | a_meteorite | brlcad: yes, it does seem to crash on input.. |
| 00:01.10 | a_meteorite | I installed the SDL binary |
| 00:01.58 | a_meteorite | so that'd be SDL 1.2.12 |
| 00:02.26 | brlcad | er, did you compile against the sdl framework? |
| 00:02.53 | *** join/#bzflag ahs3 (n=alvin@adsl-065-005-193-158.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:02.53 | macsforme | I've had problems with the latest version of SDL too |
| 00:03.02 | brlcad | looks like SDL 1.2.9 was loaded |
| 00:03.06 | macsforme | as did Legolas_, when I was testing with him |
| 00:03.33 | a_meteorite | it is linking to SDL ("-framework SDL") |
| 00:04.08 | brlcad | I'm betting therein lies the problem (SDL) .. either way an issue related to it as it's what deals with the event processing |
| 00:04.37 | a_meteorite | suggestions? |
| 00:04.56 | brlcad | get the latest to work :) |
| 00:05.08 | brlcad | or wait and try my build |
| 00:05.19 | a_meteorite | heh |
| 00:05.51 | brlcad | 1.2.11 here and I've not had any problems to date |
| 00:06.31 | a_meteorite | I could downgrade |
| 00:06.44 | brlcad | i think you're getting libs mixed up |
| 00:06.50 | brlcad | it loaded as 1.2.9 |
| 00:06.57 | a_meteorite | dunno why.. |
| 00:07.16 | brlcad | could be lots of reasons |
| 00:07.18 | blast007 | JeffM: (reading the backlog) I'm using the RC2 client now as well, and no crash so far |
| 00:07.37 | brlcad | blast007: your stats are springing to life :) |
| 00:08.27 | macsforme | a_meteorite: do you perhaps have the SDL libraries and headers installed and an SDL framework installed side-by-side? |
| 00:09.23 | a_meteorite | macsforme: nope, not in /usr/(local)/lib or /include |
| 00:09.39 | macsforme | k |
| 00:10.00 | macsforme | there are also multiple framework dirs IIRC... perhaps check for different versions in the different dirs |
| 00:10.15 | awilcox | macsforme: I just realised...are you a new dev? :O |
| 00:10.49 | brlcad | that's not where frameworks live |
| 00:10.55 | macsforme | but I guess the answer is yes |
| 00:11.19 | a_meteorite | brlcad: well, there is only one SDL.framework in /Library/Frameworks :) |
| 00:11.32 | brlcad | never said that was the only place |
| 00:11.44 | brlcad | there are other places, but the real answer is to wait for the build |
| 00:11.52 | brlcad | that's the one that needs to work regardless |
| 00:11.53 | a_meteorite | there is no SDL.framework in /System/Library/Frameworks |
| 00:11.55 | blast007 | brlcad: stats? |
| 00:12.03 | brlcad | ohloh stats :) |
| 00:12.03 | a_meteorite | true, but I need to be able to run my own build... |
| 00:12.05 | blast007 | oh |
| 00:12.09 | a_meteorite | I do dev work locally |
| 00:14.15 | blast007 | wow, 20k lines? |
| 00:14.31 | JeffM | got ares building in branch, doing a new cient with it now |
| 00:14.32 | awilcox | a_meteorite: find /usr /System /Library -name SDL* |
| 00:15.06 | JeffM | blast007, do you have masive packetloss? |
| 00:15.20 | blast007 | JeffM: no |
| 00:15.28 | JeffM | it seems to be related to that |
| 00:15.29 | macsforme | a_meteorite: also check the /Developer dir... don't have my mac in front of me, but I think there might be a place for Frameworks in there IIRC |
| 00:15.41 | blast007 | I could run a few torrents when I get home and test ;) |
| 00:15.47 | JeffM | the current theory is that it may be ares not dealing well with large scale UDP packetloss on the inital join |
| 00:15.52 | blast007 | hmm |
| 00:15.54 | blast007 | l |
| 00:15.56 | blast007 | k* |
| 00:16.01 | JeffM | branch uses an old ares |
| 00:16.06 | *** join/#bzflag tuxd00d (n=tuxinato@128.187.154.118) |
| 00:16.12 | JeffM | I'm doing a branch build with the newer ares from trunk |
| 00:16.25 | JeffM | ir may not be |
| 00:16.36 | Erroneous | but there are problems with old ares', so it'd be good to have it updated anyway |
| 00:17.48 | *** join/#bzflag ahs3 (n=alvin@adsl-065-005-193-158.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:17.56 | JeffM | he did get the loger to crash |
| 00:18.08 | JeffM | it got to the start of joinInternetGame |
| 00:18.18 | JeffM | but didnt' get into JoinInternetGame2 |
| 00:18.25 | blast007 | this might be fun to try: http://www.akmalabs.com/downloads_netsim.aspx |
| 00:18.26 | JeffM | so we could add somore more loging to see where it goes |
| 00:20.25 | JeffM | maybe it's also that bz was bult with old ares, and curl with new ares? |
| 00:20.44 | JeffM | I'm glad it dosn't seem to be this compiler setup |
| 00:21.22 | JeffM | Winny, &/ | anyone else who care to try, http://www.opencombat.net/files/bz_bug/bzflag_newAres.zip |
| 00:21.31 | Winny | ok |
| 00:21.43 | Winny | gosh, that was odd, I *just* sat down |
| 00:21.56 | JeffM | precog is one of my skills ;) |
| 00:22.11 | JeffM | tho techincaly I shoudl not ;) cus it does seem to be |
| 00:23.10 | Winny | I need a DLL... MSVCP71D.dll |
| 00:23.33 | JeffM | doh |
| 00:23.43 | JeffM | my bad |
| 00:23.49 | JeffM | wrong taget |
| 00:23.51 | JeffM | one sec |
| 00:24.44 | JeffM | I built debug not release |
| 00:25.26 | JeffM | download it again :) |
| 00:25.44 | JeffM | that explains why it was 2x the size :) |
| 00:26.09 | Winny | hehe, I was wondering about that |
| 00:26.38 | JeffM | new one should be about the same size as the last one |
| 00:28.56 | Winny | JeffM: Now it's hanging more :/ |
| 00:29.33 | Winny | of course, it could be that I'm loosing even more UDP |
| 00:36.48 | awilcox | argh, JeffM, might you be able to help me set up remote debugging? I've got MSVCMON running on the remote machine, but it says "There is no MSVCMON running on the remote machine in the current user context." |
| 00:39.36 | awilcox | s/in/running under/ |
| 00:39.52 | awilcox | "There is no MSVCMON running on the remote machine running under the current user context" |
| 00:46.00 | awilcox | >.> nice. |
| 00:46.07 | awilcox | I tried local debugging, and it crashed inside ntdll. |
| 00:47.27 | awilcox | what the crap...if I run it outside the debugger, it works |
| 00:48.38 | blast007 | okay, slight bug in RC2 |
| 00:49.02 | blast007 | even with Confine Mouse to to 'no', if you minimize the window, and go back, the mouse is confined to the window |
| 00:49.14 | blast007 | and you have to go in, set it to yes and then back to no |
| 00:49.56 | awilcox | fixed debugging -- working directory wasn't set |
| 00:50.04 | awilcox | now, slight problem. |
| 00:50.09 | awilcox | I can't spawn. |
| 00:50.28 | blast007 | local server? |
| 00:50.32 | awilcox | I tried multiple servers. I context click, I punch Joystick Button 3, nothing |
| 00:50.55 | awilcox | the other thing I've been experiencing since .8 is sometimes when I minimize, it just *poof* closes. |
| 00:50.56 | blast007 | hmm |
| 00:51.06 | awilcox | error code 0, so I can't debug. |
| 00:51.10 | blast007 | yeah, I was just going to mention that too |
| 00:51.23 | awilcox | I experience that on .8 and 2.2 as well |
| 00:51.36 | blast007 | during a connection to a server, if the game minimizes, it will just close down |
| 00:52.05 | blast007 | I've had it do it for the Windows Firewall stuff |
| 00:52.15 | awilcox | Okay, I _can_ spawn, on a local server |
| 00:52.16 | blast007 | awilcox: is it only when you're connecting? |
| 00:52.34 | awilcox | blast007: no, I was dead, and minimized, and it disappeared |
| 00:52.40 | awilcox | "exited with error code 0 |
| 00:52.41 | awilcox | " |
| 00:52.49 | blast007 | weird |
| 00:52.53 | awilcox | doesn't appear to happen when I'm living |
| 00:52.55 | awilcox | only dead. |
| 00:53.05 | awilcox | anyways, I can spawn but only on a local server |
| 00:54.52 | blast007 | awilcox: stange |
| 00:54.55 | blast007 | strange even |
| 01:00.42 | awilcox | augh |
| 01:00.44 | awilcox | I got it to spawn |
| 01:00.50 | awilcox | on "laser sniping" |
| 01:01.02 | awilcox | that was the most piss-poor performance this game has ever given me |
| 01:01.07 | awilcox | 80,000 tris @ 3 fps |
| 01:03.03 | Macrosoft | awilcox: i dont play there because of the sealed bug |
| 01:03.16 | awilcox | O_o? |
| 01:03.25 | Macrosoft | ...i usually spawn right on top of it too |
| 01:03.53 | awilcox | what sealed bug? |
| 01:04.21 | Macrosoft | when you get "sealed" on top of the giant tank |
| 01:04.35 | awilcox | Ohh. |
| 01:04.40 | Macrosoft | only way to get off it is to die |
| 01:04.48 | awilcox | wow. |
| 01:06.15 | Macrosoft | btw, i like the "jaws" sound that replaced the old hunt sound |
| 01:06.26 | Macrosoft | ...in 2.0.10 |
| 01:06.50 | Macrosoft | ...its better than that bongo crap they used before |
| 01:07.17 | macsforme | Macrosoft: or hope that an OO flag decides to spawn right on top of you ;) |
| 01:07.57 | Macrosoft | anyone know what causes that bug there? |
| 01:31.14 | *** join/#bzflag bier_ (n=bier@p54A53868.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:45.43 | *** join/#bzflag Legolas_ (n=mgin@69.106.186.82) |
| 01:58.07 | *** join/#bzflag ShadowSpectre (n=Default@24-197-139-149.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com) |
| 02:03.28 | *** join/#bzflag Legolas_ (n=mgin@69.106.186.82) |
| 02:09.38 | awilcox | argh, give a link to 2.0.10rc2 |
| 02:09.48 | awilcox | ahh, no +t |
| 02:10.01 | *** topic/#bzflag by awilcox -> http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://my.bzflag.org/w/ || 2.0.10rc2 is posted at http://beta.bzflag.bz/builds/2.0.x/ -- please test. |
| 02:12.05 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=emp@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 02:14.52 | Winny | uh, you can change the topic now? |
| 02:15.00 | Winny | :? |
| 02:15.01 | awilcox | Winny: Yep. \o/ |
| 02:16.54 | blast007 | awilcox: might want to point to the forum topic |
| 02:17.09 | a_meteorite | ~ShadowSpectre++ |
| 02:17.15 | a_meteorite | heres to the players that care |
| 02:18.27 | awilcox | blast007: ahh. |
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| 03:24.10 | Macrosoft | ?! ... man page for bzw says that OnDie amd OnSpawn are valid triggers for world weapons. is that right? |
| 03:25.45 | Macrosoft | ...and wiki only says OnCap is valid. conflicting data! *explodes* |
| 03:27.16 | awilcox | hmm, I don't know if I'm put them all back together right. "roacftsoM". |
| 03:27.47 | Macrosoft | so... does anybody know which info is right? |
| 03:28.46 | awilcox | I don't know which is correct, but I woudln't think that dying or spawning could/should trigger a world weapon |
| 03:28.56 | awilcox | s/woudln/wouldn/ |
| 03:28.57 | Macrosoft | ...no? well i guess it time to experiment |
| 03:29.05 | awilcox | hah. |
| 03:31.18 | Macrosoft | time for some OnSpawn SW's |
| 03:35.47 | Macrosoft | it accepts onspawn as a parameter, but it doesnt fire |
| 03:35.52 | Macrosoft | :( |
| 03:36.13 | awilcox | heh |
| 03:37.27 | Macrosoft | evil lie-telling bzw manual |
| 03:41.14 | brlcad | Winny: you've always been able to change the topic in here with maybe the exception of a few brief times in response to abuse |
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| 05:34.52 | jorgenpt | Hm, I wonder how long I should be keeping ``daxxar'' running. :-) |
| 05:40.35 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r15966 10/trunk/bzflag/BUGS: onspawn/ondeath are valid and trigger the appropriate event, but the WW event handler doesn't recognize them |
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| 06:01.56 | Epyon | Is there a way to quickly remove all .svn folders from a svn working copy? |
| 06:04.14 | Epyon | nvm |
| 06:04.31 | DTRemenak | export iirc |
| 06:14.37 | Epyon | Hey, anyone can supply me a trunk 2.0.X linux bzfs binary? |
| 06:17.53 | Epyon | Ping? |
| 06:19.49 | a_meteorite | Pong? |
| 06:19.55 | a_meteorite | Sorry, don't got one. :P |
| 06:20.02 | Epyon | :/ |
| 06:23.04 | ruskie | why not just build it? |
| 06:38.43 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=emp@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 06:44.11 | Epyon | ruskie, no access to a linux machine here |
| 06:44.20 | Epyon | And I need one NOW :P |
| 06:45.32 | jorgenpt | Epyon: I can fix you that, if you have the patience to wait for a build? |
| 06:48.52 | jorgenpt | Wait, that's a lie, I haven't got the time to wait for that. |
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| 07:06.04 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 07:09.16 | Epyon | jorgenpt :( |
| 07:12.24 | JeffM | Epyon: there isn't just one "linux" binary |
| 07:12.36 | JeffM | it needs to be done on your distro, with your runtime libs |
| 07:12.48 | Epyon | JeffM, I know, I know -_- |
| 07:13.15 | Epyon | My problem is however what to put on the CD for the master thesis :/ |
| 07:13.18 | JeffM | cus also if you don't have access to the linux machine, what are you going to RUN it on ;) |
| 07:13.23 | JeffM | the sources |
| 07:13.33 | JeffM | as well as a win bin |
| 07:13.44 | JeffM | anyone with a nix machine is used to building |
| 07:13.51 | Epyon | I've added SVN source, I've added the 2.0.8 windows binary + the updated windows bzfs |
| 07:14.02 | JeffM | then there ya go |
| 07:14.02 | Epyon | JeffM, I will have to assume that :P |
| 07:14.17 | JeffM | the sources are the only thing that will work on any linux system |
| 07:14.40 | JeffM | if they can't compile, they have NO biz looking at a CS thesis |
| 07:14.41 | Epyon | Anyway, I havn't seen a more friendly built system thank BZFlag, so I guess it should work ;] |
| 07:14.54 | Epyon | JeffM, you'd be surprised xP |
| 07:15.03 | JeffM | then they'd run windows |
| 07:15.13 | Epyon | We have a few lecturers that have problems using |
| 07:15.21 | Epyon | Acrobat under windows :P |
| 07:15.34 | JeffM | and you expect them to play a game? |
| 07:15.39 | JeffM | that has no instructions? |
| 07:15.54 | Epyon | OTOH my father is a example of a linux user that doesn't know how to compile nor use windows :P |
| 07:16.35 | Epyon | Yet he's a mathematician, so I guess he's not the target audience xP |
| 07:17.32 | Epyon | hmm, okay, i take that back, he worked as a Pascal programmer so he could probably manage that -_- |
| 07:17.47 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-034-030.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 07:18.01 | Epyon | Okay, let's burn |
| 07:22.36 | *** part/#bzflag lepoulpe303 (n=LePoulpe@about/essy/MobileTarget/LePoulpe303) |
| 07:23.10 | *** join/#bzflag lepoulpe303 (n=LePoulpe@about/essy/MobileTarget/LePoulpe303) |
| 07:28.35 | jorgenpt | You can compile a static binary, je |
| 07:28.40 | jorgenpt | JeffM, but he logged off. |
| 07:28.44 | jorgenpt | Epyon too. ;-P |
| 07:30.02 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 07:34.12 | Epyon | Too late, the CD's burned -_- |
| 07:34.25 | awilcox | Epyon: -_- You should always use CD-RWs. |
| 07:35.29 | Epyon | awilcox, this is the first time in a long time I used a CD :P |
| 07:35.49 | awilcox | :P |
| 07:35.54 | Epyon | I usualy carry everything on my MP3 player, or if more place is needed, burn it on a DVD |
| 07:36.18 | awilcox | ahh. |
| 07:36.38 | Epyon | And if it's < 20MB I usualy place it on the web anyway instead of the player. |
| 07:46.56 | jorgenpt | I just bought a 2.5" SATA -> USB case/converter |
| 07:47.07 | jorgenpt | Plus a .. 100 or 60 gb 7200RPM disk ;P |
| 07:47.21 | jorgenpt | Muh, I need more time. bzrobots desires my attention! |
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| 10:32.09 | Epyon | OMG, seems I bundled 2.1.x bzflag for the master thesis CD o.O |
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| 11:16.41 | Manu | Epyon: lol |
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| 13:13.03 | CIA-25 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * r15967 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/fastmap/fastmap.cpp: Functions renamed: bz_setClientWorldDowload* -> bz_setClientWorldDownload* |
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| 13:33.12 | ts | Tedius: ping |
| 13:33.25 | Tedius | pong |
| 13:34.03 | ts | Tedius: I've seen that tool for display lists |
| 13:34.31 | ts | Tedius: It's really nice but I have two problems so far |
| 13:35.12 | ts | Tedius: It does not detect when called without arguments |
| 13:35.25 | ts | Tedius: and ... my textures look wrong :/ |
| 13:36.14 | Tedius | hmm, textures, I'm not sure what is going on there |
| 13:36.24 | ts | Tedius: In my model I have no UV mapping speficied in orgin |
| 13:36.55 | Tedius | The script doesn't create textures for you.... |
| 13:37.14 | ts | I have big problems with the texture mapping |
| 13:37.21 | ts | I never got it right |
| 13:37.49 | ts | In my display list approach by hand I had the graphic problems as well.. |
| 13:38.05 | ts | How can I replicate the UV mapping BZFlag usually does? |
| 13:38.21 | Tedius | good question |
| 13:38.57 | ts | Somehow it seems to scale with the object's size |
| 13:39.31 | ts | Where in bz it looks like mirroring when the texture ends (or something like that) |
| 13:42.27 | Tedius | "mirroring"? |
| 13:42.33 | delusional | a big problem we're bumping up against now is having to reverse-engineer drawinfo, we are not even sure of exactly what correct syntax is. there are different ways to structure the bzw. It is possible to add faces and make the object "solid", but we haven't even scratched that yet. |
| 13:43.17 | Tedius | ts, you mean adjacent faces mirror each other? |
| 13:43.51 | ts | Hmm, not sure, I can |
| 13:43.57 | ts | 't translate |
| 13:44.52 | delusional | it may be that adding face information helps with the texture mapping. |
| 13:45.27 | ts | I tried but had no luck |
| 13:45.52 | ts | Adding faces at least make the object to show on radar |
| 13:46.05 | delusional | if you do, let us know, we've been discussing on the channel ##bzw |
| 13:46.41 | delusional | it will show on radar without faces |
| 13:46.58 | ts | Hmm, did not for me |
| 13:47.58 | ts | delusional: Problem with #bzw is that the questions I have are usually not answered and either newbie-like-questions come up or no talk at all :/ |
| 13:48.50 | delusional | we'll answer questions if we are there |
| 13:49.20 | delusional | ... i just think it might be best to keep mapping discussion off of this channel |
| 13:49.53 | ts | ok |
| 13:50.09 | Tedius | but while we're here, could someone point us in the right direction as to the bzfs texcoord algorhythm/code? |
| 13:52.19 | ts | Do you mean MeshSceneNodeGenerator.cxx:503 and following? |
| 13:52.35 | ts | I'm not understanding that code |
| 13:59.30 | ts | Heh, but I want it exactly to be the same like in bz |
| 13:59.38 | Tedius | aha, how about TriWallSceneNode line 160 or so |
| 13:59.52 | Tedius | and QuadWallSceneNode |
| 14:00.05 | ts | got to go now, cu |
| 14:00.16 | Tedius | if you can tell me what all that means.. |
| 14:00.19 | Tedius | I'll put it in the php |
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| 16:33.43 | brlcad | delusional: I think mapping discussions are quite on-topic for this channel as well, this channel isn't "just" for development contrary to rumor and frequent topic :) |
| 16:34.44 | JeffM | map development is development ;) |
| 16:35.51 | brlcad | sharing the mapping questions in "the main channel" actually helps, I think, so that others can get exposed to the same topics, so devs can see what the problems often are (sometimes you guys find and deal with using massive work-arounds to problems that can be often easily fixed in the code) |
| 16:35.58 | delusional | I think we are both correct. It's ok to talk maps here, but it's still good to have ##bzw |
| 16:36.16 | brlcad | sure, I just wouldn't discourage here or try to force a topic to migrate |
| 16:37.05 | delusional | well, the big problem we're having now is adding faces to the drawinfo, it seems that bzfs wants a different cmd index ehwn you add faces. |
| 16:37.35 | JeffM | command index? |
| 16:37.38 | delusional | ...i'm sure tedius would ask about texcoords if he were here |
| 16:38.19 | delusional | I have too few examples of how trepan structured his bzw code to properly build new bzw's |
| 16:38.53 | delusional | it seems he arranged everything different ways, for different purposes |
| 16:39.05 | JeffM | writen at difrent times |
| 16:39.16 | JeffM | but what do you mean by "command index"? |
| 16:39.17 | delusional | i dont know why he did it this way here.. and onother way there. |
| 16:39.40 | Tedius | the question was how bzfs (bzflag?) auto creates texcoords when there are non specified. |
| 16:39.55 | JeffM | I can look that up for you |
| 16:39.59 | delusional | drawinfo gives the error "bad cmd" if you put words like "drainfo" in the wrong place |
| 16:40.12 | JeffM | ahh, that's the generic error |
| 16:40.28 | JeffM | parser didn't know what to do with it |
| 16:41.08 | delusional | "verify command indeces" is what meshdrawinfo says. |
| 16:41.50 | JeffM | let me look up the UVs for Tedius then I can look up where in the code that error is |
| 16:41.55 | JeffM | basicly we can't rely on trepan |
| 16:42.01 | delusional | that's not what im asking though... what im asking is why are the command indeces structured the way they are |
| 16:42.07 | JeffM | so if we want to know what to do we have to use the code |
| 16:42.19 | JeffM | Tedius, they do, but those are for boxes and pyrmamids |
| 16:42.23 | delusional | and how faces fit into the indeces |
| 16:42.24 | JeffM | let me see what mesh faces add |
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| 16:43.07 | JeffM | if I'm not incrorrect, meshes are made of MeshFragSceneNode s |
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| 16:44.23 | Tedius | thx |
| 16:46.10 | JeffM | what sucks is there is like 2 difrent implemenatins for meshes it seems |
| 16:48.03 | delusional | also.. how can we return correct extent and sphere numbers from bzfs? we always get infinity or near infinity? |
| 16:48.11 | JeffM | ok, here's what it does it looks like |
| 16:48.15 | JeffM | it makes a plane for the face |
| 16:48.36 | JeffM | then calculates the distances beteen the verts in that plane |
| 16:48.45 | JeffM | and asigns UVs to them IN that computed plane |
| 16:48.49 | JeffM | with a UV scale of 8 |
| 16:49.00 | JeffM | so 8 Uworld units is one UV repeat |
| 16:49.42 | JeffM | it uses the vector from vert 0 to vert 1 as the H axis of the plane |
| 16:49.57 | JeffM | then computes the V axis from the plane normal and that H axis. |
| 16:51.19 | JeffM | delusional, I don't see that error int eh code at all, are you sure that was the exact wording? |
| 16:51.45 | delusional | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:52.10 | JeffM | delusional, 8 world units only for meshes with out UVs |
| 16:52.16 | JeffM | and it won't be alighted to any world axis |
| 16:52.32 | JeffM | the error you posted was "verify command indexes" ? |
| 16:52.55 | delusional | thats the comment just above bad cmd |
| 16:53.00 | JeffM | ahhhhh |
| 16:53.16 | delusional | indeces |
| 16:53.19 | delusional | with a c |
| 16:53.24 | JeffM | I found it |
| 16:53.28 | JeffM | it also had a "the" in it |
| 16:54.10 | delusional | it seems to mean "bad drawinfo syntax" in my experiance |
| 16:54.27 | JeffM | well no, this is after it's been parsed |
| 16:54.31 | JeffM | so it's not a syntax error |
| 16:54.42 | JeffM | it's a problem with the inxed list |
| 16:54.45 | delusional | well.. something is out of order |
| 16:54.48 | JeffM | like they don't match up |
| 16:54.54 | JeffM | yeah out of order could od that |
| 16:55.05 | JeffM | like you have 25 verts, but only 20 normals |
| 16:55.12 | JeffM | something where it dosn't match up |
| 16:55.38 | JeffM | when doing inex lists, there is a XYZ, UV, IJK for each inxed |
| 16:55.43 | JeffM | index |
| 16:55.56 | delusional | the few examples of trepans work, do not require an equal number of each v/n/t... but for us it does |
| 16:56.45 | delusional | jeff, i think it gives "bad corner" for what your saying. |
| 16:58.00 | JeffM | ok yeah that's the counts |
| 16:58.08 | JeffM | we can't use trepans's work |
| 16:58.29 | delusional | well thats all i've had to go oon |
| 16:58.45 | JeffM | no you have another resource |
| 16:58.46 | JeffM | the code |
| 16:58.52 | JeffM | that's all we realy have now |
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| 17:09.02 | delusional | we are putting "drawinfo" and "dlist" right after "mesh"..... it's working, but i don't think this is entirely correct. I think "drawinfo" it should be just before the first corner, like in the manpage, however... my tests refuse to function. |
| 17:09.38 | delusional | i also think if we add faces, some of the texture mapping problems *may* disappear. |
| 17:11.49 | delusional | we're getting some of the basics wrong. |
| 17:16.45 | delusional | the manpage isnt all that much help, the v/n/t are in two different places... then i look at trepans work, he has faces inside of drawinfo... why? does the cmd index need structured in different ways, if the object is going to have faces or not? |
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| 17:36.05 | JeffM | well the error basicly says that your refrencing a corner ID that is larger then the number of defined corners. |
| 17:36.11 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:36.12 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:36.43 | JeffM | the draw "command" is simply the command to tell it to do triangles, strips, fans, etc.. |
| 17:37.01 | JeffM | so each command has a list of corners after it |
| 17:37.11 | JeffM | corner indexes |
| 17:37.22 | JeffM | that check says that one of the corner indexes is out of range |
| 17:37.34 | JeffM | like you defined 4 corners but are asking for conrer 5 |
| 17:37.36 | delusional | yes |
| 17:37.57 | JeffM | now when you say "add faces" what exactly are you doing? |
| 17:38.03 | JeffM | adding normal mesh face commands? |
| 17:38.13 | JeffM | or doing polygon draw commands? |
| 17:38.22 | delusional | 2yes, that's my thing, tedius is working on texcoords |
| 17:38.27 | Tedius_lunch | normal face commands |
| 17:38.30 | delusional | i want to add faces |
| 17:38.34 | JeffM | cus from what I can see, draw info does things EVERYTHING difrently from meshes |
| 17:38.40 | JeffM | I don't belive you can do that |
| 17:38.44 | JeffM | you want to add triangles |
| 17:38.45 | JeffM | not faces |
| 17:38.57 | JeffM | a face is not a draw info command type |
| 17:39.10 | JeffM | all you can have is the following |
| 17:39.11 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:39.11 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:39.11 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:39.11 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:39.11 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:39.13 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:39.15 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:39.17 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:39.19 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:39.21 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:39.38 | JeffM | so a mesh face maps to a polygon |
| 17:39.47 | SpazzyMcGee | To make a drawinfo solid you need face data, right? |
| 17:39.56 | delusional | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/713941 jeff, that's trepan's work, but when i try to add faces to my work, it doesnt work |
| 17:39.59 | JeffM | you need vertex data |
| 17:40.33 | JeffM | the face isn't part of the draw info |
| 17:40.41 | JeffM | lets see what he's doing |
| 17:41.23 | SpazzyMcGee | I know that - I was under the impression all drawinfos were passable, unless you provide standard mesh faces alongside the drawinfo. |
| 17:41.28 | JeffM | he's doing a number of normal faces ( that arn't LODed, etc.. ) |
| 17:41.37 | JeffM | yeah |
| 17:41.51 | JeffM | he's using the meshface for a collision volume |
| 17:42.03 | JeffM | then doing a draw info |
| 17:42.22 | JeffM | tho he dosn't have a matref |
| 17:42.27 | JeffM | so that's odd |
| 17:42.28 | SpazzyMcGee | right... |
| 17:42.41 | JeffM | what is the "shrub" defined as? |
| 17:42.45 | JeffM | for a material? |
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| 17:43.34 | delusional | well, yeah, that paste doesnt have a material, but should |
| 17:44.23 | JeffM | the faces that he defines arn't the same as the corners |
| 17:44.31 | JeffM | so they will draw diufrently |
| 17:44.56 | JeffM | does shrub have an alpha of 0? |
| 17:45.08 | delusional | yeah, i'm hoping if we add faces, the texcoord problems will disappear |
| 17:45.21 | JeffM | what texcoord problems do you have? |
| 17:45.31 | JeffM | are you defining coords? |
| 17:45.35 | delusional | it does have alpha transparency |
| 17:45.53 | JeffM | show me the material |
| 17:46.25 | delusional | try this one.. you should be able to drop the faces, into the drawinfo http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/713941 |
| 17:46.52 | JeffM | those faces are outside of the draw info |
| 17:47.03 | JeffM | give me the material for the shrub |
| 17:47.06 | delusional | yes.. but it's the same object, |
| 17:47.15 | SpazzyMcGee | How is that drawinfo in any use if it doesn't have a matref? |
| 17:47.17 | JeffM | can you please stop trying to second guess it |
| 17:47.22 | JeffM | I'm trying to figure it out |
| 17:47.31 | JeffM | can you give me the shrub material please? |
| 17:47.39 | delusional | http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/716259 |
| 17:47.50 | JeffM | thyank you |
| 17:48.00 | JeffM | that's what I'm trying to figure out |
| 17:48.08 | JeffM | if the faces do RENDER geometry |
| 17:48.15 | JeffM | or if they do just collison stuff |
| 17:48.28 | JeffM | from waht I can see, the drawinfo dosn't have a "face" paramater |
| 17:48.33 | JeffM | the faces are attached to the mesh |
| 17:48.42 | JeffM | then the draw info is attached to the mesh |
| 17:48.48 | JeffM | draw info dosn't know what a face is |
| 17:48.51 | JeffM | but I need to test it |
| 17:49.04 | ts | wiki admins: please do something about the spam, at least protect some pages that are not meant to be edited by 3rd party |
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| 17:49.15 | JeffM | ts, where is spam? |
| 17:49.27 | SpazzyMcGee | In the fridge. |
| 17:49.37 | ts | there, too ;) |
| 17:49.48 | ts | I reverted a lot of it |
| 17:49.50 | delusional | if you add angvel to that.. the drawinfo rotates, while an invisible shrub (the faces) stays still |
| 17:49.59 | ts | See http://my.bzflag.org/w/Special:Recentchanges |
| 17:50.31 | JeffM | ts, spam sstuff is in place, that should prevent unregistered edits with out a cpacha |
| 17:50.47 | ts | I think Help:Special_pages Help:External_searches and BZFlagWiki:Only_Revert_Once should be not editable |
| 17:51.14 | JeffM | donny_baker would be the one to talk about that |
| 17:52.04 | ts | donny_baker: ping |
| 17:53.31 | JeffM | delusional, where does it put the shrub? |
| 17:53.45 | delusional | there is no group. |
| 17:53.51 | JeffM | oh it's a define |
| 17:55.24 | JeffM | does the group it's in define a material? |
| 17:57.14 | delusional | no it does not, jeff |
| 17:57.42 | JeffM | then the draw info draws as white? |
| 17:57.47 | Tedius | matref -1 in the LOD refers to the last defined material? |
| 17:57.58 | JeffM | dunno |
| 17:58.01 | JeffM | that's my question |
| 17:58.07 | JeffM | or does that mean "invisible"? |
| 17:58.14 | delusional | if you scale the object huge in the group, and add angvel to the drawinfo, it's collision properties can be easily seen. |
| 17:58.27 | JeffM | but what rotates? |
| 17:58.31 | JeffM | the shrub? |
| 17:58.34 | JeffM | or something else? |
| 17:58.39 | JeffM | that's my question |
| 17:58.45 | delusional | the drawinfo rotates, while the faces stay rooted. |
| 17:58.52 | JeffM | what does the draw info look like |
| 17:58.55 | JeffM | for a texture |
| 17:59.03 | delusional | same as the faces |
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| 17:59.16 | JeffM | ok, so you have a spining bush |
| 17:59.24 | JeffM | and inside it there is a static mesh |
| 17:59.30 | delusional | yes, but the collision point stays |
| 17:59.31 | JeffM | that also has the bush texture |
| 17:59.36 | JeffM | and is ued for collions |
| 17:59.40 | JeffM | ok, that makes sense |
| 17:59.44 | JeffM | that mesh is made up of 2 parts |
| 17:59.47 | JeffM | a list of faces |
| 17:59.51 | JeffM | and a draw info |
| 17:59.59 | JeffM | the faces can ONLY go in the mesh part |
| 18:00.02 | JeffM | not the draw info |
| 18:00.13 | JeffM | the draw info is still not colliding with anything |
| 18:00.17 | delusional | your getting it. |
| 18:00.26 | JeffM | are you puting your faces in the draw info? or in the mesh? |
| 18:00.44 | delusional | i've been trying lots of things. |
| 18:00.51 | JeffM | you cant' put them in the draw info |
| 18:00.55 | JeffM | they go in the mesh |
| 18:00.59 | JeffM | outside the info |
| 18:01.11 | JeffM | and they will be drawn in ADDITION to the draw info |
| 18:01.25 | JeffM | so I don't see how adding faces to the mesh will solve any graphincal issues with the draw info |
| 18:01.29 | JeffM | if the info is bad, it's bad |
| 18:01.29 | delusional | the ecporter now puts the word "drawinfo" right after mesh... i have not had any success putting it elsewhere |
| 18:01.56 | JeffM | well you just showed me an object that dosn't do that |
| 18:02.00 | delusional | yes |
| 18:02.05 | JeffM | so it's probably something else |
| 18:02.05 | delusional | i didnt make that one |
| 18:02.42 | delusional | also.. it requires us to have equal numbers of v/n/t... dont know why |
| 18:02.50 | JeffM | because that's how it works |
| 18:02.55 | JeffM | it uses corners and vertex lists |
| 18:02.56 | delusional | trepan's doesnt |
| 18:03.06 | delusional | he has only one normal. |
| 18:03.42 | JeffM | hmmm |
| 18:03.47 | Tupone | JeffM: what about Winny? did you fix to him? |
| 18:03.51 | JeffM | nope |
| 18:04.05 | JeffM | I don't think the curl thing changed it at all |
| 18:04.07 | Tupone | it wasn't ares? |
| 18:04.08 | JeffM | sorry ares thing |
| 18:04.14 | JeffM | not that I saw |
| 18:04.22 | Tupone | ok :/ |
| 18:04.24 | JeffM | but I was away after I posted the build |
| 18:04.28 | JeffM | I have not heard back anything else |
| 18:05.05 | JeffM | delusional, well I'd have to see your stuff to see what's going on |
| 18:05.10 | Tupone | Winny: ping |
| 18:05.12 | JeffM | I may try to hand code up one today to see if it works like I epxpect |
| 18:06.42 | delusional | the one with the two cubes is an exapmle.. i have the same object as a normal.bzw, and as a drawinfo.bzw without faces... I want to add the faces to the drawinfo |
| 18:06.55 | JeffM | you can't add faces to the draw info |
| 18:06.59 | JeffM | you add them to the mesh |
| 18:07.19 | JeffM | they are static |
| 18:07.26 | delusional | i have tried, repeatedly.. it doesnot display |
| 18:07.36 | JeffM | then something else is wrong |
| 18:07.45 | JeffM | the draw info only takes those drawing commands I listed |
| 18:08.12 | JeffM | let me see if I can make a spinning campfire that has a collsion box |
| 18:09.06 | delusional | jeff... the exporter is putting the word drawinfo in too early... i cant get anything to work, if i move it. |
| 18:09.18 | JeffM | delusional, that's becaus your guessing |
| 18:09.22 | delusional | i know |
| 18:09.35 | JeffM | that's why I'm trying to help you by actualy figuring it out |
| 18:09.44 | delusional | ok. |
| 18:09.50 | JeffM | I honestly don't care what your exporter does |
| 18:10.01 | JeffM | I'm just telling you what I see in the code |
| 18:10.24 | JeffM | I'm going to try some stuff by hand to make sure it works the way I expect it to |
| 18:10.40 | delusional | heehee, been there, done that |
| 18:11.07 | JeffM | yes but I don't think 1) you know how vertex arrays work, and 2) looked at the code to get some form of expectation |
| 18:11.18 | delusional | i know |
| 18:13.36 | JeffM | vert winding is CCW? |
| 18:14.08 | Tedius | yes |
| 18:22.58 | JeffM | Tedius, did you see what I said about the defualt UVs? |
| 18:23.16 | JeffM | if not ask me when I get back and I'll splain again, gotta go to lunch |
| 18:24.04 | delusional | by the way.. we've got a pretty good handle on making different lod's. |
| 18:24.44 | Tedius | yep, I got it, thatnks Jeff |
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| 19:32.13 | JeffM | delusional_, you mean using the pixel heights and stuff? |
| 19:33.19 | delusional_ | well, we know how to decimate vertices in wings, export a second obj, and merge the new lod |
| 19:34.18 | delusional_ | that's what i've been doing, anyway. tedius has focused on lod more than |
| 19:34.22 | delusional_ | I |
| 19:34.30 | JeffM | well sure, that's the simple part |
| 19:34.48 | JeffM | it's seting up when to swap to each LOD that's the trick |
| 19:35.18 | delusional_ | as usual, i'm just guessing |
| 19:35.44 | JeffM | have you done any reasearch on what LOD means? |
| 19:36.21 | delusional_ | yes.. that's actually the first thng he did |
| 19:36.44 | delusional_ | we got a good handle on lod |
| 19:36.51 | JeffM | cool |
| 19:37.51 | delusional_ | i'm just not sure exacly what tedius has done there. i've focused on other portions |
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| 19:39.07 | delusional_ | it does appear that lod is the only "fully" functioning portion of drawinfo, as it stands now. |
| 19:39.50 | JeffM | in your tool? or in geneal? |
| 19:39.56 | delusional_ | both, |
| 19:39.57 | JeffM | cus the strips and fans work |
| 19:40.01 | JeffM | we know that for a fact |
| 19:40.06 | Erroneous | heh. warning C4049: compiler limit : terminating line number emission. Compiler limit for line number is 65535. |
| 19:40.52 | blast007 | heh |
| 19:42.53 | brlcad | silly devs and their limits |
| 19:43.40 | Erroneous | they probably figured if you had more than about 50k lines in a single file, you might want to split it up anyway. |
| 19:43.43 | Erroneous | they're probably right. |
| 19:45.07 | delusional_ | or heard bill gates comment about "no one will ever want more than a megabyte of RAM" back in the 80's |
| 19:46.28 | Erroneous | "I've said some stupid things and some wrong things, but not that. No one involved in computers would ever say that a certain amount of memory is enough for all time... I keep bumping into that silly quotation attributed to me that says 640K of memory is enough. There's never a citation; the quotation just floats like a rumor, repeated again and again." -Bill Gates |
| 19:50.11 | delusional_ | I've seen it on video |
| 19:50.42 | Erroneous | care to cite it? |
| 19:52.24 | delusional_ | it's amazing how much bill gates history you can find perusing apple fansited |
| 19:53.28 | Winny | Tupone: pong |
| 19:53.29 | JeffM | the quote wasn't a meg IIRC |
| 19:53.49 | Erroneous | delusional_: it's amazing how much black history you can find perusing white supremicist fansites |
| 19:57.22 | Tupone | Winny: Have you resolved your problem ? |
| 19:57.51 | Winny | Tupone: no, not that I know of |
| 19:58.17 | Tupone | I thing JeffM did a change to bzflag related to ares. Have you tested it? |
| 19:58.17 | JeffM | was the ares one any difrent? |
| 19:58.44 | Winny | JeffM: it hung more :/ |
| 19:58.50 | Winny | Ill try it again, now, brb |
| 20:05.24 | delusional_ | WOW, that one sure is mis-attributted in a lot of places, /me takes the goat. |
| 20:09.51 | Erroneous | yeah...it's widely cited because it's widely cited, not because he actually said it :) |
| 20:10.56 | brlcad | heh |
| 20:10.56 | Winny | 640k? essh, I couldn't imagine using 1000x that much. |
| 20:11.09 | delusional_ | still, it seems like the only reason given for it being mis-attributted is his personal denial of having said it. |
| 20:11.10 | brlcad | Erroneous: recreating bzfs.cxx? :) |
| 20:11.15 | Erroneous | heh, no |
| 20:11.37 | Erroneous | playing with a generated class library |
| 20:16.06 | JeffM | delusional_, you want to see what I have made? |
| 20:16.13 | JeffM | it's a spining double sided plane |
| 20:16.16 | delusional_ | certainly, jeff |
| 20:16.19 | JeffM | that has a collision box around it |
| 20:16.53 | JeffM | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m2455b82d |
| 20:17.24 | JeffM | the faces define the collision area |
| 20:18.34 | brlcad | Erroneous: ahh |
| 20:18.40 | brlcad | sounds like .. yeah |
| 20:18.41 | JeffM | so it works like I'd expect |
| 20:18.57 | JeffM | everything in the drawInfo has to be a draw info command, NOT normal mesh stuff |
| 20:19.04 | JeffM | other then indexes |
| 20:21.09 | delusional_ | you get good grid and extents numbers too. |
| 20:21.25 | JeffM | I made sure they made sense, did the math ;) |
| 20:22.12 | JeffM | how are you guys computing the extents and sphere? |
| 20:22.27 | Tedius | we're not at the moment |
| 20:22.41 | delusional_ | we are not |
| 20:22.49 | JeffM | that that woudl be why you have problems |
| 20:23.01 | JeffM | draw info isn't as lax as the rest of bzw |
| 20:23.16 | JeffM | it won't fill in the missing info, if you don't provide it |
| 20:23.38 | JeffM | draw info was not meant to be done by hand |
| 20:23.43 | delusional_ | trepan said they would be computed by bzfs, i guess we need to have correct faces for that to happen. |
| 20:23.44 | Tedius | I've noticed it is quite unforgiving |
| 20:24.13 | JeffM | it's meant for when you KNOW all the data |
| 20:24.33 | JeffM | even computing it from faces isn't always right |
| 20:24.43 | JeffM | I could have had my quads extend outside of the faces |
| 20:24.57 | JeffM | and the extents and sphere would have to account fro that |
| 20:25.46 | delusional_ | when I was playing with the "gears" map (19 months ago), there was nothing i could do that would break it. no matter what i did, it loaded and displayed. |
| 20:26.10 | JeffM | depends on what you changed ;) |
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| 20:27.53 | delusional_ | you put dlist after corners... that's the piece of info i was missing, i always kept dlist and drawinfo next to each other |
| 20:28.33 | JeffM | I don't think that's all you are missing ;) |
| 20:28.38 | delusional_ | yeah |
| 20:29.04 | JeffM | I belive dlist is a paramater per LOD or command |
| 20:29.35 | JeffM | it's for each 'set" |
| 20:31.08 | Tedius | is there ever a reason not to put dlist in for the entire thing? |
| 20:31.25 | JeffM | if you dn't want a list |
| 20:31.30 | JeffM | not all things are good in display lists |
| 20:31.36 | JeffM | lots of texture swaps |
| 20:31.47 | JeffM | large objects made up of smaller objects, etc.. |
| 20:32.27 | JeffM | it woudl be best to do dlist individualy for each lod |
| 20:32.33 | JeffM | and each matref |
| 20:32.40 | JeffM | as each of those will be a grouped set |
| 20:32.54 | JeffM | the smaller the groupings the better the octree can cull |
| 20:33.00 | delusional_ | hmm |
| 20:33.19 | JeffM | you guys have to remember, when using draw info, your basicly giving commands direclty to the rendering system, and octree culler |
| 20:33.25 | delusional_ | yes |
| 20:33.37 | JeffM | so you have to underrsand how they work |
| 20:33.49 | JeffM | and set all the options you want for each thing |
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| 20:35.16 | delusional_ | ..so many tristrips is better than one long set of tris? |
| 20:36.30 | delusional_ | tristrips are better than tris any day because they have almost 1/3 less data sent to render. |
| 20:37.48 | JeffM | well |
| 20:37.49 | JeffM | ish |
| 20:38.01 | JeffM | many modern cards can optimise the pipelines for strips and fans |
| 20:38.11 | JeffM | and can cache transforms and stuff |
| 20:38.20 | JeffM | and yes, it's less data to send over the bus |
| 20:38.35 | JeffM | tho if your doing a display list, the bus bandwith thing is only a one shot savings |
| 20:38.57 | JeffM | no mater what the card always has to turn the strip into a set of triangles on the scren |
| 20:39.03 | JeffM | so the same amount of data is rendered |
| 20:39.13 | JeffM | so yes, it' is better to use strips when you can |
| 20:39.19 | JeffM | but the savings may not be THAT huge |
| 20:40.01 | JeffM | cards also usualy have a max strip limit |
| 20:40.11 | JeffM | like 16 triangles. |
| 20:40.20 | delusional_ | i'm very glad we are having this talk, we've got a lot to think about. |
| 20:40.40 | JeffM | they are mostly usefull for dynamic data, where you send the data over every frame |
| 20:40.46 | delusional_ | i've noticed STRIPE has a strip limit built-in |
| 20:40.51 | JeffM | yeah |
| 20:41.06 | JeffM | it can get eraly harry if strips get too long |
| 20:41.10 | delusional_ | right now we have done one experiment with tristrips |
| 20:41.13 | delusional_ | it worked |
| 20:41.15 | JeffM | deminishing returns, etc.. |
| 20:41.32 | JeffM | LOD is going to be your bigest speedup for complex objects |
| 20:41.49 | delusional_ | yeah, thats the most useful part. |
| 20:41.54 | JeffM | most map objects seem to be building like structures, that have lots of hard edges and flat surfaces |
| 20:42.02 | JeffM | so strips and fans on those are of minimal use |
| 20:42.17 | delusional_ | go with quadds |
| 20:42.20 | JeffM | since the card will most likely just fan up the glPolygon anyway |
| 20:42.38 | JeffM | lists and lod, that'll be your bread and butter for speed |
| 20:42.51 | JeffM | as well as smart grouping |
| 20:43.08 | JeffM | cus in a draw info, you define what things are grouped together for octree culing |
| 20:43.19 | JeffM | with flat meshes, each face is culled indepednetly |
| 20:43.26 | delusional_ | that's what i'm doing now, groupings |
| 20:43.37 | JeffM | I don't mean with the group keyword |
| 20:43.50 | JeffM | I mean with the dlist and matref sections |
| 20:43.56 | JeffM | and each lod |
| 20:44.00 | delusional_ | ok |
| 20:44.08 | JeffM | I belive each stirp is culled as a group |
| 20:44.21 | JeffM | that's why it has it's own sphere |
| 20:44.35 | JeffM | cus you can't break up a strip |
| 20:44.43 | JeffM | if you had a long stip |
| 20:44.52 | JeffM | and part of the middle was behind a box |
| 20:45.05 | JeffM | you can't break that strip and not draw the stuff behind the box |
| 20:45.16 | delusional_ | we have had extremely long lists of tris, that's not the same as a strip? |
| 20:45.24 | JeffM | not sure |
| 20:45.39 | JeffM | it may cull each triangle there seperately |
| 20:45.45 | delusional_ | like 150,000 tris |
| 20:46.00 | JeffM | then there would be no diff between that and a normal mesh |
| 20:46.05 | JeffM | other then being able to do LOD on it |
| 20:46.13 | JeffM | and the limited animation |
| 20:46.28 | Tedius | and dlists |
| 20:46.35 | JeffM | yes |
| 20:46.53 | Tedius | Our chief weapons are lists, lods, smart groups, and a fanatical devotion to the pope, are Four, four weapons... |
| 20:46.58 | JeffM | thats another thing, each list is culled and drawn as a group |
| 20:47.14 | JeffM | so for some things that may SLOW it down |
| 20:48.04 | JeffM | what are your goals for this |
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| 20:48.09 | JeffM | what do you hope to get out of it? |
| 20:48.31 | JeffM | just an understanding of how it all works? or do you want to make faster maps? or just use animations? |
| 20:48.44 | delusional_ | goals? we're in it for the journey, not the destination. |
| 20:48.57 | JeffM | ok |
| 20:49.03 | Tedius | The initial goal (for me)was to be able to do lods easily, so one can render many objects quickly |
| 20:49.36 | Tedius | LODs of tanks or coins for instance |
| 20:49.52 | JeffM | that should not be too hard to do |
| 20:50.06 | Tedius | now we're in it for the journey |
| 20:50.14 | JeffM | you probalby don't even need mesh faces for those |
| 20:50.20 | JeffM | but you WILL need to define every UV |
| 20:50.30 | JeffM | for draw info it won't compute UVS |
| 20:50.50 | JeffM | cus the UVs are burned into the corner |
| 20:50.51 | delusional_ | we figgured that one out. |
| 20:50.53 | Tedius | correct, and I think I've accomplished that in the current script |
| 20:51.08 | JeffM | then what is your Texture coord problem |
| 20:51.17 | JeffM | the one you were hoping mesh faces would solve? |
| 20:52.08 | Tedius | that is part of the journey, putting the object on the radar, making it something to collide with |
| 20:52.29 | JeffM | what does that have to do with UVs? |
| 20:53.07 | delusional_ | .. i didnt think it was good to work on texcoords before faces were solved. |
| 20:53.47 | JeffM | ahh |
| 20:54.00 | JeffM | well only add the faces before or after the draw info and you'll be fine |
| 20:54.01 | *** part/#bzflag gieffe (n=gieffe@host94-118-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:54.09 | JeffM | the face keyword can't be animated |
| 20:54.15 | JeffM | nor LODed |
| 20:54.43 | delusional_ | yes. it was cmd indeces, we were just making a very basic error there. |
| 20:55.04 | delusional_ | seems solved now |
| 20:56.33 | Tedius | thanks for the wisdom, as always, Jeff |
| 21:01.29 | delusional_ | jeff, thanks a lot, you broke a road block and gave us more info too. |
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| 21:01.47 | JeffM | I'm commenting the hell outa my file |
| 21:01.52 | JeffM | should I post it somewhere? |
| 21:01.57 | delusional_ | sure |
| 21:03.23 | delusional_ | the biggest problem has been too few examples of working drawinfo.bzw ... all we really had was lou's churchyard, not much else. |
| 21:03.44 | delusional_ | it's the primarary reference tool. |
| 21:03.44 | JeffM | there are better ways to learn then just looking at examples ;) |
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| 21:34.06 | JeffM | Winny, you were able to eventlay get the loging one to crash right? |
| 21:34.32 | Winny | JeffM: yes |
| 21:34.41 | Winny | it got to "START joinInternetGame" IIRC |
| 21:34.45 | JeffM | delusional_, I posted an annoted object, and the info on default UV generation |
| 21:34.48 | JeffM | Winny, ok |
| 21:34.49 | JeffM | cool |
| 21:36.41 | JeffM | did it say "connection established"? |
| 21:37.17 | JeffM | and do you have time to test a little more now? |
| 21:38.35 | delusional_ | jeff, where is it? |
| 21:38.53 | Winny | JeffM: it just hanged on "Trying..." |
| 21:39.04 | Winny | I'll have time to do testing in an hour or so |
| 21:39.08 | JeffM | fourms |
| 21:39.35 | delusional_ | found it |
| 21:39.50 | JeffM | http://www.opencombat.net/files/bz_bug/ |
| 21:39.56 | JeffM | get the "fastLog" one |
| 21:40.11 | JeffM | on a normal connect it will put 1 2 3 4 5 6 in the chat box |
| 21:40.33 | JeffM | if you can make it die, tell me what nubmer it stops on :) |
| 21:41.05 | Winny | ok |
| 21:41.26 | donny_baker | ts: pong |
| 21:41.39 | Constitution | 600k bzflag binary? |
| 21:41.47 | JeffM | zipped |
| 21:41.49 | JeffM | just the exe |
| 21:41.51 | JeffM | no data |
| 21:41.53 | JeffM | not a full install |
| 21:41.54 | Constitution | ah |
| 21:42.16 | JeffM | no need to build full installers for just a little test ;) |
| 21:42.18 | Winny | JeffM: ehehe, it didn't print any numbers :/ |
| 21:42.33 | Winny | brb |
| 21:42.33 | JeffM | did it connect? |
| 21:42.46 | donny_baker | brlcad, ts : i am going to turn on captcha for all unregistered edits ... not just ones including links |
| 21:43.17 | delusional_ | quote jeff "# draw info only supports draw info specific geometric primitives. # normal mesh primitives, like face, meshbox, arc, etc are NOT valid # inside a draw info. |
| 21:43.32 | delusional_ | then in another place it says face may go inside drawinfo |
| 21:43.51 | donny_baker | ~ts++ |
| 21:44.02 | JeffM | delusional_, where does it say face can go in? |
| 21:44.25 | delusional_ | it says it cant be inside drawinfo, and it also says it can. |
| 21:44.45 | JeffM | where does it say it can? |
| 21:44.46 | delusional_ | i know it can |
| 21:44.52 | JeffM | it can be in the MESH |
| 21:44.55 | JeffM | not the draw info |
| 21:45.31 | delusional_ | " they must go ether before or after the draw info " |
| 21:45.35 | delusional_ | oh, i c |
| 21:45.39 | JeffM | yeah but not INSIDE |
| 21:46.02 | JeffM | draw info has a begin and an end |
| 21:46.08 | JeffM | it's like a face |
| 21:46.10 | JeffM | you cant' have a face in a face |
| 21:46.48 | delusional_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:52.27 | delusional_ | that's why i failed every time trying to add faces |
| 21:52.47 | JeffM | yeah, it's invalid |
| 21:52.57 | JeffM | when you define the draw info, your just telling how to DRAW the mesh |
| 21:53.01 | JeffM | not defining a mesh |
| 21:53.30 | JeffM | 'that's why it's just the DRAW info |
| 21:58.20 | Winny | JeffM: nope, stuck on "Trying..." |
| 22:00.17 | brlcad | donny_baker: alright |
| 22:00.31 | brlcad | donny_baker: were edits still getting in that were linkless? |
| 22:00.44 | brlcad | ~donny_baker++ |
| 22:00.57 | brlcad | (and that were abuse) |
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| 22:05.47 | JeffM | Winny, wierdness |
| 22:06.27 | JeffM | well let me add something |
| 22:07.43 | JeffM | Winny, get the one that is called "moreFastLog" |
| 22:07.49 | JeffM | lets see if it gets to "0" |
| 22:07.51 | Winny | okie |
| 22:08.20 | JeffM | cus there was only one function before 1 and after where I had loged out before |
| 22:08.42 | JeffM | well that and setting a boolean to false |
| 22:08.56 | Winny | JeffM: it still only displays 1-6 onjoin |
| 22:09.39 | JeffM | hmm |
| 22:09.42 | JeffM | standby |
| 22:11.41 | JeffM | stupid post build step |
| 22:11.43 | JeffM | ok |
| 22:11.47 | JeffM | I pulled all the files in that dir |
| 22:11.55 | JeffM | and replaced them with a single new one |
| 22:11.57 | JeffM | try that |
| 22:13.25 | Winny | ok, now it says "joininternetgame and then 1-6", is that what it should be doing? |
| 22:13.31 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:13.35 | JeffM | make that sucker crash :) |
| 22:13.39 | Winny | k |
| 22:13.42 | JeffM | well, lock up :) |
| 22:14.12 | JeffM | the address lookup IS the first thing it does then, so maybe that is what the problem is |
| 22:17.14 | donny_baker | brlcad: seems to be an epidemic today |
| 22:20.29 | Winny | can't get it crash so far |
| 22:20.31 | Winny | grml |
| 22:20.52 | brlcad | then problem solved! ;) |
| 22:21.13 | Winny | heh - I wish :p |
| 22:23.24 | Winny | JeffM: is it possible it's no a BZ problem, but a window problem? |
| 22:23.37 | Winny | windows* |
| 22:25.43 | JeffM | hard to say |
| 22:25.54 | JeffM | it's possible |
| 22:26.13 | JeffM | do you have any other systems, on that connection you can test with? |
| 22:26.42 | Winny | I have my mac, It's never crashed on there |
| 22:26.56 | JeffM | that is both good and bad :) |
| 22:27.27 | JeffM | it's still possible it's an issue with DNS lookups on windows |
| 22:27.31 | JeffM | with your connection |
| 22:36.14 | JeffM | Erroneous, only 70 places that call GetDirectMessageBuffer :) |
| 22:36.26 | Erroneous | cool, should be easy then ;) |
| 22:36.36 | JeffM | it's actualy better then I expected |
| 22:36.51 | JeffM | 7 files |
| 22:37.18 | JeffM | I think I'll do the got hit thing first |
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| 22:52.22 | JeffM | going to test out the "did I die" message with physics drivers first |
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