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| 00:24.41 | CBG | ~seen TimRiker |
| 00:24.43 | ibot | timriker <n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker> was last seen on IRC in channel #infobot, 2d 5h 22m 58s ago, saying: 'troubled: cool.'. |
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| 01:05.26 | delusional | I have found a bug in windows RC3, it will not load a new texture for _rainPuddleTexture, if specified. 2.0.8windows would not, either |
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| 01:07.11 | delusional | it tries to load the texture, but says cannot load texture. mac and linux seem OK. |
| 01:07.47 | delusional | they don't see a white box on the floor, it just doesnt display the puddle, at all |
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| 01:10.10 | JeffM | probalby been a bug since rain was implemented |
| 01:10.33 | delusional | i didnt test _rainTexture |
| 01:11.10 | delusional | but im pretty sure windows 2.0.8 didnt load that, either |
| 01:11.29 | delusional | ..from earlier tries |
| 01:11.34 | JeffM | then I'm sure .6 didn't |
| 01:11.40 | JeffM | and we didn't have rain in .4 ;) |
| 01:12.25 | delusional | i tried to make it rain cats or dogs, couldnt even attempt cats AND dogs |
| 01:12.48 | delusional | had to be one or the other |
| 01:14.18 | JeffM | so what are you setting for the rain texture? |
| 01:14.32 | delusional | fatrain, right now |
| 01:14.42 | JeffM | .png or just the word fatrain? |
| 01:14.52 | JeffM | or doing the rainmode? |
| 01:14.57 | delusional | it's a _rainType |
| 01:15.24 | delusional | i didnt test load a _rainTexture |
| 01:16.09 | JeffM | so snow dosn't work ether? |
| 01:16.39 | JeffM | or frog? |
| 01:17.20 | delusional | let me make sure my texture is the same size as the default texture, that might be it |
| 01:17.48 | JeffM | should not matter |
| 01:20.02 | JeffM | wait, you changed your local texture? |
| 01:21.37 | delusional | I'm attempting to download one, the new one is 192*128 - frog.png is 64*64 |
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| 01:21.43 | delusional | works good on mac |
| 01:21.57 | JeffM | should be the same on all of them |
| 01:22.13 | JeffM | but how do you expect to get the file to remote users? |
| 01:22.54 | delusional | download, as any other texture |
| 01:23.11 | JeffM | oh then yeah |
| 01:23.22 | delusional | puddle.png is 256*256 |
| 01:23.39 | JeffM | I don't think the windows internal stuff will go look in the chace dir for textures, thats only part of the material stuff |
| 01:24.02 | JeffM | using fake materials to get rain loaded isn't realy a suported feature |
| 01:24.07 | JeffM | if it was, we'd just use the material name |
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| 01:25.57 | JeffM | so the regular modes work tho |
| 01:26.04 | JeffM | rain snow, etc.. |
| 01:26.35 | JeffM | and you were making a matererial that had a remote texture called fatrain? |
| 01:26.51 | JeffM | then seting the type to fatrain and expecting it to pick up your new texture? |
| 01:29.49 | delusional | what i did was set _rainType snow, with a new texture |
| 01:30.18 | delusional | its no big deal jeff, I'm just saying I wish it worked... |
| 01:30.27 | JeffM | maybe I can make it work |
| 01:30.34 | JeffM | that's why I'm trying to understand what you did |
| 01:30.39 | JeffM | how did you set the texture? |
| 01:31.10 | delusional | -set _rainTexture http://cbg.bzflag.org/images/Holidays/black-skull.png |
| 01:31.25 | JeffM | ajj |
| 01:31.27 | JeffM | ahh |
| 01:31.33 | delusional | wait |
| 01:31.50 | delusional | -set _rainPuddleTexture http://cbg.bzflag.org/images/Holidays/black-skull.png |
| 01:31.53 | JeffM | that's a valid path on mac and nix ;) |
| 01:32.11 | JeffM | let me see what we do on windows |
| 01:32.25 | JeffM | we may pull the : |
| 01:32.37 | delusional | sounds good, i'll brb |
| 01:32.41 | JeffM | yeah |
| 01:32.44 | JeffM | we pull the : |
| 01:32.55 | JeffM | it's not suposed to work like that on any OS |
| 01:33.03 | JeffM | so that's not really a feature |
| 01:33.14 | JeffM | I'd rather do it where you just give it the material name |
| 01:33.23 | JeffM | and we'll pull the rest from that |
| 01:33.32 | JeffM | cus you should not have to know the specific cache path |
| 01:34.14 | JeffM | also if you had not had that file in the map, I don't belive we'd download it on any OS |
| 01:35.13 | CBG | So it's not a case of "Why doesn't it work on Windows?" but more "Why _does_ it work on *nix?" ? :D |
| 01:35.20 | JeffM | yeah |
| 01:35.22 | JeffM | it's luck |
| 01:35.30 | JeffM | check your cache dir for me |
| 01:35.39 | JeffM | is the top one http or http: ? |
| 01:35.40 | CBG | Magic. Real OSs just... work. :D hehe. jk. |
| 01:35.48 | JeffM | maybe nix skips the : |
| 01:44.11 | CIA-21 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16153 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/WeatherRenderer.cxx: if loading the _rainTexture fails as a flat texture name load ( aka, not an internal texture ) then try it as a material name, and use the texture from that material if it's found. |
| 01:44.13 | delusional | yeah, you gotta pre-load the texture at join |
| 01:44.27 | JeffM | not anymore ;) |
| 01:44.45 | JeffM | with that you just set the var to the material name and it'll pull texture 0 out of it and use that |
| 01:45.09 | delusional | it will download a texture if I set it in-game? |
| 01:45.11 | JeffM | just don't name your material something stupid like the name of an internal texture. |
| 01:45.27 | JeffM | textures are ONLY ever downloaded at map load time |
| 01:45.32 | JeffM | with materials |
| 01:45.39 | JeffM | so it'd have to be a material in the map |
| 01:45.49 | delusional | well, thats what i was saying, you have to pre-load it |
| 01:45.58 | JeffM | just include it in the map and it'll be fine |
| 01:46.02 | JeffM | but you don' thave to use the cache path |
| 01:46.04 | delusional | yeah |
| 01:46.09 | JeffM | you can use the material name |
| 01:46.25 | JeffM | we don't currently have any way of changing materials during play |
| 01:46.33 | JeffM | our current texture transfer is blocking |
| 01:47.10 | JeffM | what your talking about is geting more into the realm of in game world/map editing |
| 01:48.24 | delusional | you can set _rainTexture in-game on mac clients |
| 01:48.38 | JeffM | sure, to any texture that is currently loaded |
| 01:49.27 | delusional | almost... they have to be the same size as frog.png |
| 01:49.28 | JeffM | with this cange you can do that as well, just use the material name instead of the texture name, and it'll work the same on all OSs |
| 01:49.48 | JeffM | so your telling me that if you put in a URL the mac will go and download the texture for you? |
| 01:49.59 | delusional | so that's it, you're done? |
| 01:50.27 | JeffM | I'm not going to go change the texture download system to be asyncronouys just for rain |
| 01:50.41 | delusional | no, i mean if you change it in-game, it can't be a wildly out-sized texture. |
| 01:50.53 | JeffM | it should work as any texture |
| 01:50.59 | JeffM | same as on any box |
| 01:51.23 | JeffM | it loads it the same as anything else |
| 01:53.00 | delusional | turns rain into a white square |
| 01:55.04 | JeffM | worked for me when I replaced frog.png with a sceenshot ;) |
| 01:55.19 | JeffM | I think you have more then one problem and are mixing them together in your head |
| 01:55.36 | JeffM | puting the URL into the var, is NOT a supported feature |
| 01:55.51 | JeffM | it will attempt to use that as a local path |
| 01:56.02 | JeffM | and that may or may not work depending on your OS and cache dir setup |
| 01:56.05 | delusional | hmm, ok, i'll accept that |
| 01:56.13 | JeffM | as for textures |
| 01:56.17 | JeffM | BZ will load any png file |
| 01:56.30 | JeffM | and attempt to use it as a texture |
| 01:56.37 | JeffM | if it's not a power of 2 it'll scale it |
| 01:56.43 | JeffM | there are texture size limits |
| 01:56.49 | JeffM | so you can't load images that are too big |
| 01:57.02 | JeffM | the default may be 512 max |
| 01:57.14 | JeffM | that is totaly independent or rain |
| 01:58.01 | delusional | Is the skybox black-line-in-the-corners fixed in 2.1? |
| 01:58.08 | JeffM | dunno |
| 01:58.14 | delusional | if you load new skyboxes? |
| 01:58.16 | JeffM | usualy thats a card issue |
| 01:58.26 | JeffM | there are hacks to work around it |
| 01:58.32 | JeffM | or turn on repeats |
| 01:58.48 | delusional | trepan said that he had that fixed, but neglected to commit it. |
| 01:58.49 | JeffM | I don't think 2.1 allows difrent textures to have difrent repeat modes |
| 01:58.57 | JeffM | then it's probably not fixed |
| 02:04.12 | delusional | might be nice to have a BorderTexture material for teles, too. |
| 02:04.29 | JeffM | what version of openGL do you have? |
| 02:05.51 | JeffM | you've tried the telerim material? |
| 02:06.18 | JeffM | ahh that's an output thing |
| 02:06.20 | JeffM | nevermind |
| 02:06.22 | delusional | telerim!!!!! |
| 02:07.29 | delusional | openGL 1.4.16, that's the latest, right? |
| 02:07.50 | delusional | 7/18/07 |
| 02:08.48 | JeffM | no |
| 02:08.52 | JeffM | but ok, more then 1.1 |
| 02:09.05 | delusional | BorderMaterial would be the proper name, like GrounDmaterial and skybox |
| 02:09.10 | JeffM | then it'll try to use the edge clamp to get rid of that box, but it's an extensaion |
| 02:09.26 | JeffM | telerim is what is in use in obj files |
| 02:09.29 | JeffM | when we save |
| 02:09.34 | delusional | ok |
| 02:09.48 | JeffM | I don't like the term "border" it dosn't scream "teleporter" to me |
| 02:09.53 | JeffM | "tpFrame" maybe |
| 02:10.39 | delusional | there are other references to the word border, somewhere... manpages or something |
| 02:10.40 | L4m3r | you can always just set the border to zero and insert your own |
| 02:10.44 | delusional | for tele |
| 02:10.47 | L4m3r | better texturing that way too |
| 02:11.23 | JeffM | yeah border is used, it's just a BAD name |
| 02:12.00 | delusional | I have even made TeleLink material completely clear, and laid an image plane (with drivethrough) at the same location, works |
| 02:12.20 | L4m3r | why would it not work? |
| 02:12.25 | L4m3r | ;) |
| 02:12.41 | delusional | my wormhole teles are pretty cool. |
| 02:13.11 | L4m3r | I once thought of making round teles with that blue spiral texture I have ;) |
| 02:14.36 | delusional | I posted it in prefabs |
| 02:14.48 | delusional | yours will fit right in |
| 02:14.49 | CIA-21 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16154 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/SceneBuilder.cxx: check for a TeleFrame material and use the texture from that for the teleporter "borders". Does not use the full mat, cus I don't feel like converting teleporter frames into mesh scene nodes. |
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| 02:15.33 | delusional | TeleFramee! |
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| 02:15.42 | JeffM | yeah |
| 02:16.26 | delusional | is there anything i should see in the recent modeltool commits? |
| 02:16.42 | JeffM | depends on what your interested in |
| 02:17.16 | JeffM | just read the log |
| 02:19.32 | delusional | looks big, that will have to wait 2 days, till i finish my current project |
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| 02:45.36 | delusional | Im wondering if LOD can be used to completely sorround the player, like a dragon's mouth that closes around you, as you enter |
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| 03:09.41 | Macrosoft | ok, ive got a graphics card that requires 50W more than i have, and i just added four fans that require 5V minimum each. if i wasnt pushing the limit before, i sure as hell am now. |
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| 03:12.53 | brlcad | sounds like your power supply sucks |
| 03:13.39 | l4m3r | fans don't generally spin up at 5V... |
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| 09:13.05 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://my.bzflag.org/w/ || 2.0.10rc3 in progress |
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| 13:13.56 | CapN | I've come in here really for only one reason.... |
| 13:14.40 | CapN | the Red Sox....are.....WORLD CHAMPIONS....again!!!!! WWWOOOOhhooooOOOOoo!! |
| 13:15.45 | Chestal | hi CapN :-) |
| 13:16.01 | CapN | hey chestal! |
| 13:16.18 | CapN | i'm a big baseball...red sox...fan :) |
| 13:16.24 | CapN | i have to spread my joy |
| 13:16.57 | Chestal | I didn't even know there was a match :-) |
| 13:17.12 | CapN | hehe |
| 13:17.24 | CapN | yup....October is World Series time in the states |
| 13:17.35 | CapN | they won last night. |
| 13:18.19 | CapN | how have you been....i've been playing a bit lately...we need to get a match in some time. |
| 13:18.24 | Chestal | but I remember that they won a few years ago, and it was the first for a long time then? |
| 13:18.33 | CapN | right... |
| 13:18.48 | CapN | they won in 2004 which was the first time in 86 years!!! |
| 13:19.05 | CapN | so people like my dad...who was a big fan..had gone their whole life without seeing it. |
| 13:19.14 | Chestal | haven't really played lately, only this weekend a bit |
| 13:19.33 | CapN | have their even been any duc. matches lately? |
| 13:19.48 | Chestal | well, not with Moles |
| 13:20.19 | Chestal | I'll try to play a bit more this week, but can't say for sure if I'll succeed |
| 13:20.39 | CapN | lol...alright...well i have to go and spread my Red Sox cheer some more... cya later |
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| 17:52.57 | randomparticle | BZFlag-2.0.10 svn/SDL-1.2.11 appears to run fine under OS X 10.5 |
| 17:53.26 | randomparticle | doesn't work properly with SDL-1.2.12 |
| 17:54.08 | JeffM | so they changed someting in .12 that busted the Fkey input? |
| 18:03.43 | brlcad | randomparticle: curious, does the 10.4 universal .app that I built for 2.0.10 work? |
| 18:04.09 | randomparticle | someone said it did work for them |
| 18:04.16 | randomparticle | i haven't tried it |
| 18:04.38 | brlcad | i mean specifically in 10.5 |
| 18:04.45 | brlcad | with the keys issue |
| 18:05.11 | randomparticle | ok, more specifically: someone said it did work for them under OS X 10.5 |
| 18:06.05 | JeffM | I get the feeling that SDL isn't developed that much anymore |
| 18:08.21 | randomparticle | Quick note: SDL 1.2.11 compiles fine using Xcode and /Developer/SDKS/MacOSX10.4u.sdk/ |
| 18:08.50 | randomparticle | two changes are needed to get it and SDL 1.3 to compile with /Developer/SDKS/MacOSX10.5.sdk/ |
| 18:09.02 | randomparticle | changes are here: |
| 18:09.03 | randomparticle | http://lists.macosforge.org/pipermail/macports-changes/2007-July/007369.html |
| 18:12.02 | randomparticle | PPC compilation is problematic atm for me. I can't find /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.2.8.sdk |
| 18:12.33 | randomparticle | SDL requires that |
| 18:13.18 | randomparticle | "To build Universal Binaries, we have experimented with a variety of different options. |
| 18:13.18 | randomparticle | The complication is that we must retain compatibility with at least 10.2. " |
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| 19:38.25 | JeffM | does anyone make a more C++ SDL type library? |
| 19:38.43 | JeffM | that's more activly developed |
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| 20:25.08 | macsforme | BZBB admins: might want to take a look at http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=11063 |
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| 20:36.59 | Manu | why not autokick the player when the right player gets identified? |
| 20:37.12 | Manu | about Ghost.. |
| 20:40.59 | ruskie | I thought that was already happening |
| 20:41.05 | ruskie | and that's just the main issue |
| 20:41.23 | ruskie | since if a player foobar is playing and someone regs foobar they can ghost him |
| 20:41.55 | Manu | and? |
| 20:42.21 | ruskie | shouldn't happen |
| 20:42.22 | Manu | I remember years ago did it to kick troublemakers ;) |
| 20:42.27 | ruskie | leads to abuse |
| 20:42.32 | ruskie | and it has recently |
| 20:43.10 | ruskie | once a callsign is online it shouldn't be ghostable unless the callsign was pre-registered... |
| 20:43.11 | Manu | you always can register your callsign |
| 20:43.24 | ruskie | you can't register a nick on irc if you don't currently have it... |
| 20:43.36 | ruskie | but you can ghost an nick if you registered it before |
| 20:43.51 | JeffM | for 2.1 we will kick people who used a registered name when they loged in |
| 20:43.52 | ruskie | with bzflag you can register while the same callsign is playing |
| 20:43.56 | JeffM | no changes will be made for 2.0.x |
| 20:44.03 | Manu | BTW, this is old.. I have my screen scrolled up :/ |
| 20:44.09 | ruskie | :) |
| 20:44.11 | Manu | I had* |
| 20:44.28 | ruskie | JeffM, so will it preserve the current player or not? |
| 20:44.34 | JeffM | depends |
| 20:45.13 | JeffM | if the name was registered when that player joined, then he knowingly used a reged name and will be ghosted when the real name owner joins |
| 20:45.24 | ruskie | that's fine |
| 20:45.29 | ruskie | but if unregged when joined? |
| 20:45.37 | JeffM | if the name was NOT registered when the player joined, they had no clue the name was registered, so they will NOT be kicked |
| 20:45.53 | ruskie | so why not include this in 2.0? |
| 20:45.57 | JeffM | the owner of the new name will have to wait untill the existing player parts before they can play with the new name |
| 20:45.59 | JeffM | stability |
| 20:46.04 | Manu | need testing :) |
| 20:46.05 | JeffM | we want to release |
| 20:46.33 | Tupone | what are the remaining issues for 2.0.10? |
| 20:46.34 | JeffM | it's a signifigant change |
| 20:46.48 | JeffM | Tupone, Constitution had something with polls, and I think that's about it |
| 20:46.56 | JeffM | I was waiting for him to give some more info about it |
| 20:47.08 | JeffM | and some mac OSX 10.5 testing |
| 20:47.10 | macsforme | you were? |
| 20:47.14 | macsforme | thought you said it was good enough |
| 20:47.14 | JeffM | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:47.20 | JeffM | I asked for more info |
| 20:47.24 | Manu | heh |
| 20:47.38 | macsforme | hmm |
| 20:47.42 | JeffM | I said, if your fixes made it work in the majority of cases then I'd be fine with them, it dosn't have to be perfect |
| 20:47.47 | JeffM | but you didn't realy have any hard info |
| 20:47.58 | JeffM | do you think your fixes are good enough for most cases? |
| 20:48.04 | ts | I found one thing is in the changelist that was (accidently) not checked in..I still need to remove from ChangeLog |
| 20:48.21 | JeffM | ts, and that would be? |
| 20:48.54 | ts | optional delay for resuming countdowns |
| 20:49.05 | ts | I'll take it out now |
| 20:49.50 | macsforme | well, it does work now in all the cases I was able to reproduce... but it uses some flags improperly and loops too many times, IIRC |
| 20:49.51 | JeffM | if the poll stuff is good enough, the only thing I think left is to ask brlcad if he thinks anything else needs to change for 10.5 |
| 20:50.03 | JeffM | that and worrying ubuntu issues |
| 20:50.07 | JeffM | that's all I got in my book |
| 20:51.46 | ts | JeffM: I have no time to ensure quality and we do not want a broken server |
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| 20:52.04 | JeffM | ts, huh? |
| 20:52.06 | JeffM | what does that mean? |
| 20:52.27 | JeffM | the server has had more testing then any of the code for .10 |
| 20:52.47 | Tupone | simply that he wants to remove the entry on ChangeLog and not putting that change in |
| 20:52.48 | ts | I meant related to the changes I forgot to check in |
| 20:52.49 | JeffM | the major server hosts have been runing SVN code for months and months |
| 20:52.53 | JeffM | oh |
| 20:52.58 | JeffM | sure that's fine |
| 20:53.16 | JeffM | I don'[t care about the featureset of .10 |
| 20:53.25 | JeffM | we are not doing it for features. |
| 20:54.32 | macsforme | the bzadmin part/join hiding should probably be fixed |
| 20:54.39 | macsforme | assuming I'm not the only one who's experienced that issue |
| 20:54.46 | JeffM | what is the issue |
| 20:54.54 | JeffM | please assume we can't read your mind ;) |
| 20:55.35 | macsforme | passing the -hide join and/or -hide part arguments to bzadmin does not make it hide them |
| 20:55.59 | JeffM | is it a new bug? or has it done this for a long while? |
| 20:56.34 | macsforme | just noticed it recently... don't know how long it's been that way |
| 20:56.51 | JeffM | I think it would be a good idea to test it back to .8 and .6 |
| 20:56.55 | donny_baker | macsforme: try it with older clients :P |
| 20:57.06 | JeffM | if it's an old bug it can stay and just be fixed in 2.1, since it's been that way for a while |
| 20:57.14 | JeffM | if it's new, we should look at the risk of the change. |
| 20:57.32 | macsforme | k... I'll try to look at it tonight |
| 20:57.46 | ts | Hrm, CIA is dead |
| 20:58.01 | macsforme | glad everyone cares so much about the quality of our 2.0.10 release :P |
| 20:58.20 | JeffM | there are levels of quality |
| 20:58.27 | JeffM | there is no way to make it "perfect" |
| 20:58.40 | ruskie | just work withouth breaking much |
| 20:59.00 | JeffM | the goal of the release is to make it similar to .8 in quality, but actualy work on linux systems |
| 20:59.13 | ruskie | .8 didn't? |
| 20:59.14 | JeffM | I mean we could go and do LOTs of stuff to it, but we'd never get done |
| 20:59.23 | JeffM | .8 does not work on a number of AMD systems |
| 20:59.28 | JeffM | it has a float packing bug |
| 20:59.32 | JeffM | and some memory leaks |
| 20:59.47 | ruskie | hmm never noticed any such issues here... and I do run an amd system |
| 20:59.47 | JeffM | .10 only exists to get a working package into the distros |
| 21:00.00 | JeffM | now that's not to say we didn't sneak some other stuff in there |
| 21:00.05 | ruskie | :) |
| 21:00.06 | JeffM | but those other things are not the primary goal |
| 21:00.18 | JeffM | we have to keep our eye on the goal, or we'll never finish |
| 21:00.25 | ruskie | :) |
| 21:00.28 | JeffM | .10 has already taken too much time from real dev |
| 21:00.41 | macsforme | hm, I see |
| 21:01.22 | JeffM | the next release with a feature focus is still 2.2 |
| 21:02.15 | ruskie | any new flags in it? |
| 21:02.23 | JeffM | one |
| 21:02.32 | JeffM | remember that not all features are flags ;) |
| 21:02.49 | gsnedders | yes that are!!111!!111eleventy! |
| 21:02.54 | JeffM | nope |
| 21:02.54 | ruskie | not really... |
| 21:03.27 | gsnedders | (implied sarcasm element there, BTW :P) |
| 21:03.49 | ruskie | what's the flag? or will one need to go digging in the svn logs? |
| 21:03.50 | JeffM | we only take compiled sarcasm here, none of this interpreted stuff ;) |
| 21:03.59 | JeffM | low gravity |
| 21:04.13 | macsforme | even with the limited number of new features in 2.0.10, seems kinda hard to go from "this is a dead-end branch" to "we are officially releasing this code in a month" |
| 21:04.16 | ruskie | O.o |
| 21:04.23 | ruskie | fun |
| 21:04.36 | macsforme | haven't people been, like, playing games with the 2.0 branch for the last year? |
| 21:04.43 | JeffM | yes |
| 21:04.55 | JeffM | that's why I didn't want to do one |
| 21:04.57 | JeffM | we don't have much |
| 21:05.00 | JeffM | but we have a need |
| 21:05.01 | JeffM | so we'll do it |
| 21:05.07 | JeffM | that's why we want to GET IT OUT |
| 21:05.33 | JeffM | it was suposed to be a quick release, but look how we've draged it out |
| 21:05.43 | JeffM | I mean no mater what 2.0.x IS a dead end codebase |
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| 21:12.25 | JeffM | hey, Erroneous want to help me convert a CVS repo to SVN? ;) |
| 21:16.34 | JeffM | cus I don't think I can do this on my own |
| 21:18.12 | JeffM | I love how the site docs neglect to mention "You can't do this on windows" |
| 21:20.51 | macsforme | what can't you do on windows? |
| 21:21.02 | JeffM | run cvs2svn |
| 21:21.04 | macsforme | your repo isn't on a windows server, is it? |
| 21:21.16 | JeffM | make instal isn't a recognised command or batch file |
| 21:21.24 | macsforme | heh |
| 21:21.28 | JeffM | the insttructions assume a nix environment |
| 21:21.46 | JeffM | I'd like to convert opencombat to SVN :( |
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| 21:22.12 | Tupone | why not git? :) |
| 21:22.29 | JeffM | does SF support it? |
| 21:22.33 | Tupone | nope |
| 21:22.40 | Tupone | just kidding |
| 21:22.49 | JeffM | I know you don't have to run Git that way, but I'd still prefer a central database ;) |
| 21:23.01 | JeffM | I could move it all to google code |
| 21:24.10 | ruskie | I belive savannah supports git |
| 21:24.37 | ruskie | but running git on any server isn't an issue... if you can run http+webdav you have a working central repository |
| 21:24.37 | Tupone | Well, I don't know too much git so I don't know if that apply: sometime I need to develop in environment without internet, and merge after a month. I like git, if it can do it |
| 21:24.56 | JeffM | yeah it can be nice for that |
| 21:25.21 | ruskie | Tupone, try this: develop A and B completly unrelated but at some point in the future need to merge them... |
| 21:25.21 | JeffM | for a more "one man team" kinda dev, then it makes sense |
| 21:25.27 | ruskie | I did this a week or so ago with git... |
| 21:25.48 | Tupone | can you work without network connection ? |
| 21:25.51 | ruskie | aside from a few conflicts due to same files it went flawlessly |
| 21:25.51 | JeffM | for us with more centralised colaboration needs, all it does is provide a realy cool merge that keeps history. |
| 21:25.52 | ruskie | yup |
| 21:25.59 | ruskie | no network necessary |
| 21:26.05 | JeffM | Tupone, yeah you have your own local repository basicly |
| 21:26.23 | JeffM | then it has the ability to merge full repositories and histories |
| 21:26.31 | ruskie | I really like git myself |
| 21:26.54 | JeffM | it is nice from a software standpoint |
| 21:27.06 | JeffM | from a social standpoint, it can lead to some bad habbits |
| 21:27.06 | Tupone | good, I will test it as I need something like that. clearcase, rcs, sccs, cvs , svn: all fails (as for my knowledge) |
| 21:27.24 | JeffM | since big code drops are easy, people can tend to do them and not coloaborate as much |
| 21:27.57 | Tupone | Well, we have big session abroad without any connection except phone and mail |
| 21:27.57 | ruskie | yeah people cry that... |
| 21:28.06 | ruskie | that's why there are branches... |
| 21:28.18 | ruskie | let the person have their own branch with each commit easily reviable |
| 21:28.20 | JeffM | it all dpeends on your dev style |
| 21:28.39 | JeffM | ruskie, or just force them into the mainline, and have them you know WORK WITH PEOPLE ;) |
| 21:28.48 | ruskie | lol |
| 21:28.53 | ruskie | not always desired |
| 21:28.56 | JeffM | our system forces you to own up to your code |
| 21:29.02 | JeffM | not always, but sometimes it is |
| 21:29.15 | JeffM | as I say, depends on how you want to do it |
| 21:29.34 | ruskie | I more or less push stuff to the central repo after I'm done with a batch of fixes |
| 21:29.54 | JeffM | with SVN it is limited, and that limitation forces you down one path. If that's a path you want to go down as a dev style, then hey, SVN's method is hleping |
| 21:29.55 | Tupone | JeffM: force is a big word. I saw streams of commit in few days |
| 21:30.01 | Tupone | even with CVS |
| 21:30.15 | JeffM | yeah force isn't a good word |
| 21:30.23 | ruskie | well svn with some later version will support offline commits as wel |
| 21:30.34 | ruskie | or so they say |
| 21:30.38 | JeffM | there is a svn branch that does it now |
| 21:30.52 | JeffM | it just puts more pressure on the project management |
| 21:31.13 | ruskie | anyway I'm none aligned for a scm... |
| 21:31.23 | ruskie | though my preference is git atm |
| 21:31.34 | JeffM | we saw at SoC a number of mentor groups that just let the students go off and make code and polp it in at the end |
| 21:31.44 | JeffM | I don't think that would have worked well with our project for SoC |
| 21:32.16 | ruskie | well the thing with git isn't so much go into a cave and work on it |
| 21:32.16 | JeffM | they touted that GiT let them do that |
| 21:32.31 | JeffM | ruskie, no it isn't depends on how you use it |
| 21:32.32 | ruskie | it allows it technicaly |
| 21:32.40 | JeffM | yeah, but it allows it |
| 21:32.43 | ruskie | but it's the social bit that's important |
| 21:32.56 | JeffM | and if you dont' wach it, your devs can fall into that trap easy |
| 21:32.57 | ruskie | if you let them do so, your own fault |
| 21:33.01 | JeffM | cus git makes it a nice cave |
| 21:33.17 | JeffM | with svn, it's a nasty cave, so people don't want to stay in it for long ;) |
| 21:33.56 | ruskie | if you make clean rules... let's say once per week pushes atleast and status reports etc... you can get much better interaction |
| 21:34.09 | JeffM | yeah but you have to manage that |
| 21:34.17 | JeffM | my point is it takes people to do that |
| 21:34.50 | ruskie | well that's the point |
| 21:34.51 | JeffM | yet if you use a less powerful system, you can get some of that work done automaticly, by the fact that working that way is harder in the less pwoerfull system |
| 21:34.56 | ruskie | it should be the people that specify that |
| 21:34.58 | ruskie | not the tools |
| 21:35.04 | JeffM | we don't have strong developer management |
| 21:35.14 | JeffM | and I odn't think we ever will |
| 21:35.14 | ruskie | we(source mage) don't either |
| 21:35.27 | ruskie | yet git works for us well |
| 21:35.36 | JeffM | if we went to git,I fear we'd not see peolple for months at a time |
| 21:35.38 | ruskie | and infact developers want the central repository up |
| 21:35.43 | JeffM | as I said, depends on how you work ;) |
| 21:35.48 | JeffM | and how your people are |
| 21:35.53 | ruskie | currently having some hw issue with our server |
| 21:36.01 | gsnedders | I much prefer distributed SCM |
| 21:36.02 | ruskie | ppl keep asking when it'll be back up |
| 21:36.17 | JeffM | how long has it been down? |
| 21:36.26 | ruskie | one day |
| 21:36.30 | JeffM | heh |
| 21:36.52 | ruskie | we can all work but they want the central server |
| 21:36.53 | gsnedders | but there again, I did a lot of work in an airport, including reverting to a previous rev, all without access. no need to spend ages trying to work out the previous rev |
| 21:36.53 | JeffM | being able to keep the history of commits localy is nice |
| 21:37.05 | JeffM | if we ever changed, we'd still run centeral style |
| 21:37.12 | ruskie | nothing wrong with that |
| 21:37.15 | JeffM | and take commits as we do now |
| 21:37.21 | JeffM | and just use it as a cool merge tool |
| 21:37.24 | ruskie | we atm have only one rule... have atleast one commit/year |
| 21:37.33 | gsnedders | heh |
| 21:37.35 | Tupone | SVK . how good is ? |
| 21:37.52 | ruskie | Tupone, better than svn imho but it depends how fond of perl hackery you are |
| 21:37.56 | ruskie | I used it before git... |
| 21:37.59 | ruskie | it worked... |
| 21:38.13 | Tupone | is it rock-solid? |
| 21:38.24 | ruskie | is svn? |
| 21:38.31 | Tupone | dunno ;/ |
| 21:38.33 | gsnedders | IMO SVN is the best centralised system |
| 21:38.48 | ruskie | I'd agree there |
| 21:38.49 | JeffM | is your OS? ;) |
| 21:39.02 | ruskie | atleast with the FSFS based stuff |
| 21:39.13 | ruskie | with the DB backend it's insane to even think to run |
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| 23:10.16 | JeffM | damn, need to come up with another name for gpLib :( |
| 23:12.44 | a_temp_dist | puppies! |
| 23:12.51 | JeffM | libpuppies |
| 23:12.52 | JeffM | nice |
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| 23:13.37 | CBG | ußrGplIb!!!1 |
| 23:14.11 | TD-Linux | how about just libußr? |
| 23:14.20 | TD-Linux | have fun with package maintainers |
| 23:14.36 | JeffM | some how I don't find that descripive ;) |
| 23:14.50 | CBG | "mylib" |
| 23:15.01 | JeffM | I can't move it to googlecode, cus it conflicts with a SF project :( |
| 23:15.02 | Winny | "yourlib" |
| 23:15.06 | JeffM | libGP++ |
| 23:15.24 | CBG | abetterlibthansdlwhichsucksmonkeytesticles |
| 23:15.50 | TD-Linux | well, I assume it uses SDL? |
| 23:17.21 | JeffM | for now it does |
| 23:17.27 | TD-Linux | SDL-ng |
| 23:17.27 | JeffM | I'ld like to get away from using SDL |
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| 23:21.54 | JeffM | I'm not getting the feeling that SDL is very active in development, so I'd like to see if I could get native platform classes hooked into the back end, as well as suporting more then one display/window |
| 23:22.04 | JeffM | sadly that's something SDL can't do |
| 23:22.30 | a_temp_dist | what are the alternatives? |
| 23:22.52 | JeffM | the only real alternitives I've seen are full blown GUI libs |
| 23:22.54 | JeffM | and engines |
| 23:23.49 | JeffM | and I think there is a call for a small lightweight "setup" type lib that isn't a full blown engine |
| 23:24.09 | JeffM | for people to do research work, and quicke apps, or even test new stuff for new engines. |
| 23:24.48 | JeffM | I think I'm going to need a tighter link between the display and event systems as well, to handle things like resizeable windows, sdl keeps it all prety seperate |
| 23:25.26 | JeffM | maybe I'll ask Erroneous to relicense his png code under the MPL 1.1 :) |
| 23:25.50 | JeffM | I mean some of my classes must be usefull, we've used them in BZ, and other SoC Projects. |
| 23:26.50 | Tupone | SDL is doing the real work in the 1.3, that's why you feel is not very active |
| 23:27.21 | Tupone | but 1.3 is not yet ready to be usable |
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| 23:49.49 | JeffM | I checked the commit logs in svn for SDL |
| 23:49.56 | JeffM | still not that active |
| 23:50.12 | JeffM | they are also doing a bit more then I need to do, all the 2d stuff |
| 23:50.21 | JeffM | oh he left |
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| 23:57.31 | delusional_ | could more 2-D effects in SDL be a result of OSX10.5's addition of core-animation? |
| 23:58.48 | delusional_ | from ars technica Core Animation's original name, Layer Kit, reveals a lot about its design. At its heart, Core Animation manages a collection of 2D layers. Though layers are sorted by depth and can have perspective transforms applied to them, Core Animation is not a 3D engine. That is, layers can overlap, but they cannot intersect (in the 3D sense). |
