| 00:34.29 | *** join/#bzflag sigonasr2 (i=sigonasr@ip72-200-88-154.tc.ph.cox.net) |
| 00:43.50 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 01:01.16 | *** join/#bzflag gnu-sense (n=gnu-sens@74-130-13-93.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 01:27.58 | delusional | severcontrol is the best plugin ever, if you have multiple instances of bzfs. |
| 01:29.27 | Winny | delusional: :D |
| 01:29.31 | Winny | ~servercontrol++ |
| 01:33.50 | AAA_Awright | ~servercontrol |
| 01:36.37 | *** join/#bzflag Warinthestar (n=Warinthe@1.168.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 01:49.18 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@pool-71-109-219-226.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 02:11.04 | *** join/#bzflag whoodaman-_ (n=whodaman@p54A3EE0C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:22.45 | blast007 | JeffM: is there something special I have to do when distributing a C# binary? distribute some DLLs as well? |
| 02:22.57 | JeffM | they need to have .net installed |
| 02:23.35 | JeffM | as far as that, I think that's all, cus it builds a real exe, that throws the code to the .net runtimes |
| 02:24.25 | blast007 | hmm, ok |
| 02:25.29 | JeffM | DTRemenak knows more about distributing them |
| 02:26.49 | JeffM | and just so you know, fog should be only make rendering faster |
| 02:26.54 | JeffM | since you draw less |
| 02:27.07 | JeffM | it used to be a cheap trick on software to make stuff go faster |
| 02:27.07 | blast007 | should |
| 02:27.23 | blast007 | iirc, it made it slower on my Savage IX |
| 02:27.31 | JeffM | we need to find out why and fix it |
| 02:27.38 | blast007 | cuz that card sucks? |
| 02:27.43 | JeffM | 3.0 is probably going to have manditory fog |
| 02:27.44 | blast007 | it had texture swapping issues too |
| 02:27.51 | JeffM | fog isn't done as a texture |
| 02:27.54 | blast007 | I had mountains instead of clouds |
| 02:28.03 | blast007 | no, I mean, that chipset had issues to begin with |
| 02:28.04 | TD-Linux | we have mandatory textures in 2.2 right? |
| 02:28.05 | JeffM | fog works with texturing off |
| 02:28.14 | blast007 | I actually had faster FPS in software rendering |
| 02:28.14 | JeffM | TD-Linux: what do you man by that? |
| 02:28.25 | TD-Linux | like, you can't turn off textures in the menu |
| 02:28.25 | JeffM | blast007: then fog shoudl work for you ;) |
| 02:28.33 | JeffM | I don't belive so TD-Linux |
| 02:28.36 | TD-Linux | oh ok |
| 02:28.37 | blast007 | my laptop with the Savage is no more ;) |
| 02:28.38 | *** part/#bzflag sigonasr2 (i=sigonasr@ip72-200-88-154.tc.ph.cox.net) |
| 02:28.39 | JeffM | I'd like to change that |
| 02:28.45 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 02:28.48 | blast007 | only thing I have with that chipset is my IBM server |
| 02:28.50 | JeffM | just have it be high medium and low |
| 02:29.16 | JeffM | fog can actualy affect gameplay, so the client option to turn it off is bad |
| 02:29.18 | TD-Linux | otherwise the map turns into a land of white marble sculptures |
| 02:29.31 | TD-Linux | and then people complain |
| 02:29.39 | TD-Linux | also it shouldn't default to no texturing |
| 02:29.40 | JeffM | that is their own choice |
| 02:29.53 | JeffM | to play on a mesh map with no textures |
| 02:29.57 | TD-Linux | I suppose |
| 02:29.59 | JeffM | if it's boxes and pyramids we color them |
| 02:30.00 | TD-Linux | you are right |
| 02:30.08 | TD-Linux | also |
| 02:30.10 | JeffM | but yes, we shold focus on hardware |
| 02:30.21 | TD-Linux | if the video card isn't recognized, can it default to highest settings? |
| 02:30.27 | JeffM | I'd like to go GF1/Radeon or better |
| 02:30.39 | JeffM | TD-Linux: we don't pick it by card |
| 02:30.49 | JeffM | you think we have a database of cards? |
| 02:30.49 | TD-Linux | on my laptop with radeon 9600 even, full settings work at >60fps at 1680x1050 |
| 02:30.52 | TD-Linux | well |
| 02:31.03 | TD-Linux | I noticed on some computers it defaults to different settings |
| 02:31.05 | JeffM | we try settings and stop at the first one to get over 10FPS |
| 02:31.15 | TD-Linux | on that radeon laptop, it always defaulted to lowest settings for everything |
| 02:31.16 | JeffM | the tests in 3.0 will be difrent |
| 02:31.19 | TD-Linux | including no texturing |
| 02:31.25 | JeffM | some of the blending tests are not great |
| 02:31.34 | JeffM | we also used to test with out zbuffer |
| 02:31.37 | JeffM | and that's slow |
| 02:32.00 | TD-Linux | pretty nice that you can squeeze in all those tests in what seems like under a second |
| 02:32.18 | JeffM | yeah we render like 2-3 frames and just time them |
| 02:33.33 | JeffM | I'd also like to require GLEW and test aniso first |
| 02:36.34 | JeffM | a_meteorite: you going with the gig of ram or the 100 meg link? |
| 02:37.34 | a_meteorite | JeffM: on xlhost? |
| 02:37.39 | JeffM | ya |
| 02:37.56 | a_meteorite | Pentium D, 1GB Ram, 10Mbit - https://secure.xlhost.com/moreinfo.php?service=2 |
| 02:38.21 | a_meteorite | Don't really need the 100Mbit cause if I need 10Mbit at all, then I don't have enough bandwidth (I'm pretty stable at 2-3Mbit usually) |
| 02:38.59 | JeffM | interesting, that's not on the main buy page anymore |
| 02:39.24 | a_meteorite | It's on their bargain bin page |
| 02:39.38 | JeffM | you can get cheaper for 69$ |
| 02:40.12 | a_meteorite | Yeah, I know, but I was aiming for the dual core since we do a lot of MySQL stuff |
| 02:40.25 | JeffM | ahh |
| 02:40.40 | a_meteorite | We're pretty sound on donations so long as 2-3 people don't back out one month |
| 02:40.48 | JeffM | whacha gonna do with the extra 5$? |
| 02:40.59 | a_meteorite | Remote reboot |
| 02:41.06 | JeffM | ahh |
| 02:41.06 | JeffM | fun |
| 02:41.34 | a_meteorite | I have a small kiddy for the times when people can't donate, but it's not very large :) |
| 02:42.08 | JeffM | good luck with it |
| 02:42.20 | a_meteorite | Well, it's more than one month's worth.. $90.. |
| 02:42.23 | a_meteorite | Thanks |
| 02:42.35 | JeffM | I don't evny the work youre going to have todo to beat the money out of people |
| 02:43.00 | a_meteorite | I hope it doesn't come to that, heh |
| 02:43.03 | JeffM | if I were you I'd set up automated paypall recuring subscriptions that dump right into the account you use to pay the people |
| 02:43.05 | JeffM | it will |
| 02:43.48 | JeffM | at the very least youre going to have to send them some sort of monthly reminder |
| 02:44.10 | JeffM | so may as well automate that with paypall recuring billing |
| 02:44.34 | *** join/#bzflag Daveman (n=dave@pool-141-153-247-51.mad.east.verizon.net) |
| 02:45.00 | a_meteorite | hmm, I'll have to see how to set that up. I have a personal paypal account and apparently there's also a limit how many payments you can receive. |
| 02:45.30 | JeffM | that's why it's good to do the recuring |
| 02:45.45 | JeffM | you set up as a seller? |
| 02:46.27 | a_meteorite | No, I just signed up for a personal paypal account |
| 02:46.41 | JeffM | you will want to upgrade that |
| 02:46.48 | JeffM | how many contributors do you have? |
| 02:47.00 | a_meteorite | 10+ |
| 02:47.15 | JeffM | yeah, your basicly in the same boat as an ebay seller |
| 02:47.21 | JeffM | are you verified? |
| 02:47.23 | a_meteorite | yes |
| 02:47.29 | JeffM | that's a good start |
| 02:47.38 | JeffM | check into the subscriptions, shoudl be cake |
| 02:48.01 | JeffM | you basicly set up a URL and an agreement, etc.. they click a button, you get an email if they join or cancel |
| 02:48.12 | JeffM | and every month you get money slaped into your paypall account |
| 02:48.16 | a_meteorite | ahh |
| 02:48.21 | JeffM | and don't forget transaction fees |
| 02:48.51 | JeffM | if they fund from a credit card, you pay a fee to get that money |
| 02:49.08 | a_meteorite | do you know which merchant service subscription comes with? |
| 02:49.17 | JeffM | not off the top of my head |
| 02:49.21 | JeffM | you'll have to read |
| 02:49.24 | JeffM | it's your money |
| 02:49.25 | a_meteorite | k, looking at the feature lists.. |
| 02:50.14 | JeffM | I belive if you don't do anything the normal merchant fee is like 2.9$ + .30$ |
| 02:50.19 | JeffM | http://www.ppcalc.com/ |
| 02:50.50 | JeffM | to get 85$ after fees, you'd need to get 87.85 in donations |
| 02:51.32 | JeffM | the fees may be less if you never withdraw |
| 02:51.37 | a_meteorite | ah right.. those fees |
| 02:52.02 | JeffM | but I'm pretty sure you pay something when you get money |
| 02:52.03 | JeffM | https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-receiving-fees-outside |
| 03:12.31 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_Awright_ (n=AAA_awri@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:28.42 | Winny | ~bzsvn |
| 03:28.42 | ibot | extra, extra, read all about it, bzsvn is http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag bzflag |
| 03:30.32 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi_ (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 03:41.24 | *** join/#bzflag QBeep (n=QuantumB@doc-72-47-73-208.leesville.la.cebridge.net) |
| 03:43.45 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumB (n=QuantumB@doc-72-47-73-208.leesville.la.cebridge.net) |
| 03:49.04 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QuantumB@doc-72-47-73-208.leesville.la.cebridge.net) |
| 04:08.47 | *** join/#bzflag jzaun (n=jzaun@75-93-117-187.hon.clearwire-dns.net) |
| 04:09.33 | jzaun | I just checked out the code from SVN. when running make I get and error. Any ideas? src/FTVectoriser.cpp:186: error: invalid conversion from 'GLvoid (*)(...)' to 'GLvoid (*)()' |
| 04:09.52 | JeffM | mac? |
| 04:09.59 | jzaun | yup :-) |
| 04:10.08 | JeffM | yeah known issue on some systems |
| 04:10.09 | *** join/#bzflag QBeep (n=QuantumB@doc-72-47-73-208.leesville.la.cebridge.net) |
| 04:10.12 | JeffM | with freetype |
| 04:10.38 | jzaun | its a clean Leopard install :- |
| 04:11.03 | Winny | yup |
| 04:11.13 | JeffM | yeah |
| 04:11.20 | JeffM | some stuff dosn't work on 10.5 |
| 04:11.24 | JeffM | with the dev code |
| 04:11.32 | jzaun | well, its just a few days old install at least. Is there any way to fix it? :-) |
| 04:12.03 | jzaun | or is there more than just that error? |
| 04:12.16 | JeffM | work with brlcad to find and fix the problem |
| 04:12.25 | JeffM | it dosn't happen to everyone |
| 04:12.35 | jzaun | k |
| 04:15.39 | *** join/#bzflag Djpenguin (n=David@adsl-216-102-90-233.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 04:21.35 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-114-69-187.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 06:06.33 | *** join/#bzflag eTangenT (n=chatzill@inge069019.halls.colostate.edu) |
| 06:07.00 | *** join/#bzflag jzaun (n=jzaun@75-93-117-187.hon.clearwire-dns.net) |
| 06:08.09 | jzaun | not sure if its helpfull but I got a 2.0.10 osx binary and I got a development osx binary... http://web.mac.com/justin.zaun/Site/OS_X.html |
| 06:40.34 | *** join/#bzflag bier_ (n=bier@p54A514E1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:10.41 | *** join/#bzflag delusional_ (n=delusion@pool-71-253-24-43.pitbpa.east.verizon.net) |
| 08:49.15 | *** join/#bzflag hachiya (n=nya@cpe-76-167-85-6.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 09:28.22 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@vpn199-113.hrz.uni-oldenburg.de) |
| 10:45.44 | *** join/#bzflag tannerld (n=tanner@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 10:46.00 | *** join/#bzflag Doctor-Who (n=Net_Smar@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 11:00.51 | *** join/#bzflag lepoulpe303 (n=LePoulpe@about/essy/MobileTarget/LePoulpe303) |
| 11:20.11 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-114-69-187.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 11:36.52 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@vpn199-065.hrz.uni-oldenburg.de) |
| 11:43.50 | *** join/#bzflag Warinthestar (n=Warinthe@1.168.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 12:20.06 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumB (n=QuantumB@72.47.73.208) |
| 12:39.54 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak|RDP (i=DTRemena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak) |
| 12:39.54 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak|RDP] by ChanServ |
| 12:41.11 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (i=blast@206.222.24.18) |
| 12:41.12 | *** join/#bzflag polydektes (n=chatzill@24-178-110-164.dhcp.stbr.ga.charter.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:41.12 | *** join/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:41.12 | *** join/#bzflag Evelyk (n=kyleve@unaffiliated/winny) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:41.16 | *** join/#bzflag Noodlema1 (n=tuckerm@ip68-0-117-235.tu.ok.cox.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:41.16 | *** join/#bzflag Winny (n=KyleVE@unaffiliated/winny) |
| 12:41.16 | *** join/#bzflag PrezKennedy (n=Matt@74.86.45.130) |
| 12:41.16 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-MIA (n=relay@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:41.16 | *** join/#bzflag mkzelda (i=mkzelda@cpe-075-177-148-122.nc.res.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:41.17 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=const@unaffiliated/macsforme) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:41.17 | *** join/#bzflag ts (n=ts@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:41.21 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumB (n=QuantumB@72.47.73.208) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:41.21 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_Awright (n=AAA_awri@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:41.21 | *** join/#bzflag mashroom_ (n=tasty@89-138-132-186.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 12:41.22 | *** join/#bzflag nn-mai1 (n=nn@74.94.43.196) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:41.22 | *** join/#bzflag ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:41.22 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:41.22 | *** join/#bzflag cods (n=cods@rsbac/developer/cods) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:41.22 | *** join/#bzflag rtfm (n=rtfm@pdpc/supporter/active/blast007) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:41.22 | *** join/#bzflag retro (n=ksumrall@wall.danger.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 12:41.22 | *** join/#bzflag uso (n=uso@84-72-8-253.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:41.22 | *** mode/#bzflag [+vv L4m3r rtfm] by irc.freenode.net |
| 12:42.16 | *** join/#bzflag Pumpernickel (n=Pumperni@about/essy/bacon/PuMpErNiCkLe) |
| 12:42.48 | *** join/#bzflag Erroneous (i=DTRemena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak) |
| 12:42.49 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Erroneous] by ChanServ |
| 12:47.32 | QuantumB | Most entertaining BZFlag crash ever. |
| 12:47.44 | ruskie | lol |
| 12:47.49 | QuantumB | Nothing but ground and sky textures, plus tanks. |
| 12:48.02 | QuantumB | Console and geometry gone |
| 13:12.06 | *** join/#bzflag lepoulpe303 (n=LePoulpe@about/essy/MobileTarget/LePoulpe303) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 13:12.07 | *** join/#bzflag Doctor-Who (n=Net_Smar@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 13:12.07 | *** join/#bzflag tannerld (n=tanner@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 13:12.07 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi_ (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 13:12.07 | *** join/#bzflag deprecated (n=deprecat@c-24-18-19-17.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 13:12.07 | *** join/#bzflag keith80403 (n=keith804@71-218-231-6.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 13:12.07 | *** join/#bzflag inchworm (n=msimmons@about/essy/GimmeGrubs/inchworm) |
| 13:12.07 | *** join/#bzflag [dmp] (n=dennis@unaffiliated/dmp/x-546784) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 13:12.07 | *** join/#bzflag menotume (n=menotume@pdpc/supporter/active/menotume) |
| 13:12.07 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v menotume] by irc.freenode.net |
| 13:44.37 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-074-089.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 13:47.17 | *** join/#bzflag Tedius (n=Tedius@musictech.MUSC.CWRU.Edu) |
| 14:35.02 | *** join/#bzflag Syd_Barrett (i=chatzill@nat/ibm/x-2f170ec6c1bd8944) |
| 14:39.02 | polydektes | Syd_Barrett: what's up? glad to see you made it |
| 14:39.15 | Syd_Barrett | heh heh what is up |
| 14:56.15 | *** join/#bzflag Djpenguin (n=David@adsl-216-102-90-233.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 15:01.23 | polydektes | Syd_Barrett: fyi.... chacher's is a great cajun spice shaker |
| 15:01.31 | polydektes | friggin moron |
| 15:02.00 | polydektes | i see you're a chauvanistic racist as well :P |
| 15:04.49 | *** join/#bzflag eTangenT (n=chatzill@inge069019.halls.colostate.edu) |
| 15:39.30 | *** join/#bzflag gnu-sense (n=gnu-sens@74-130-13-93.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 15:40.22 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-145-188-131.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) |
| 15:43.05 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders_ (n=gsnedder@host86-145-188-131.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:00.56 | *** join/#bzflag Saturos (n=Saturos@p57A0D5AA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:30.19 | *** join/#bzflag LongDo1 (n=LongDon@host-091-097-059-083.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 16:31.26 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-059-083.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 16:32.19 | *** join/#bzflag Saturos_ (n=Saturos@p57A0D5AA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:35.53 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 16:41.16 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 17:00.29 | JeffM | whodaman-, you can't repackage starwars sounds into a game under "fair use", just so you know. |
| 17:01.34 | whodaman- | JeffM, due to copyright and licenses? |
| 17:01.38 | JeffM | yes |
| 17:01.50 | JeffM | fair use is for review/critique of works |
| 17:01.54 | JeffM | or educational rasons |
| 17:02.01 | JeffM | you can't repack them and add them to another project |
| 17:02.09 | whodaman- | Yeah, OK |
| 17:02.12 | JeffM | that site only state fair use to cover there own butts |
| 17:02.21 | JeffM | there is no redistrobution clause there |
| 17:02.48 | whodaman- | Ahh, right, but say any other random sounds could be used? |
| 17:02.55 | blast007 | whodaman-: no |
| 17:02.57 | JeffM | depends where they came from |
| 17:03.05 | blast007 | again, as I had said, you have to be aware of the licenses |
| 17:03.09 | JeffM | if you made them, then you can license them however you want |
| 17:03.23 | JeffM | if you get them elsewhere, you have to see what the redistrobution license is |
| 17:03.29 | JeffM | sonds are the same as artwork |
| 17:03.37 | JeffM | it's all media or ("works") |
| 17:03.40 | whodaman- | Right, |
| 17:03.54 | whodaman- | so I could get in touch with the owner and handle it with him |
| 17:04.01 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v blast007] by ChanServ |
| 17:04.18 | JeffM | with the copyright holder |
| 17:04.35 | JeffM | not just the person who stole the sound the last time. |
| 17:04.37 | whodaman- | Creator isn't always copyright holder.. |
| 17:04.42 | JeffM | indeed |
| 17:04.59 | JeffM | where are you getting sounds? |
| 17:05.34 | *** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-145-188-131.range86-145.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:05.38 | JeffM | just google searching? |
| 17:05.41 | whodaman- | JeffM, just searches on the web |
| 17:05.53 | whodaman- | yeah, I wasn't aware of all the copyright issues. |
| 17:06.02 | JeffM | the web is full of thieves ;) |
| 17:06.11 | JeffM | you want to find stuff with create commons licenses |
| 17:07.26 | whodaman- | http://www.galaxyfaraway.com/gfa/1998/12/star-wars-sounds-archive/ |
| 17:07.36 | whodaman- | this would be one of the sites. |
| 17:07.58 | JeffM | ok, if it comes from any MOVIE, or other copyright work, it's not going to have an open source license |
| 17:08.04 | JeffM | you CAN NOT steal |
| 17:08.28 | JeffM | are you just searching for star wars sounds on google? |
| 17:08.42 | whodaman- | I was |
| 17:08.49 | JeffM | that will never get you anything you can use |
| 17:08.53 | JeffM | you can't use anything from star wars |
| 17:08.58 | JeffM | period |
| 17:09.02 | whodaman- | yeah, all copyright |
| 17:09.11 | JeffM | you can't use anything from any movie |
| 17:09.13 | whodaman- | Creative Commons license=open source? |
| 17:09.14 | JeffM | or TV show |
| 17:09.34 | blast007 | whodaman-: not exactly |
| 17:09.48 | JeffM | Most CC licenses are Open source compatable since they allow mostly unrestricted distrobution |
| 17:09.50 | JeffM | that's the key |
| 17:09.54 | JeffM | unrestricted distrobution |
| 17:10.04 | whodaman- | so anyone can use it |
| 17:10.12 | blast007 | whodaman-: depends on their licenses |
| 17:10.14 | JeffM | they may not allow modification, and that part is not "open source" but it is compatable for distrobution |
| 17:10.19 | blast007 | some of them so no commercial, for instance |
| 17:10.22 | blast007 | say no* |
| 17:10.23 | JeffM | yeah |
| 17:10.40 | JeffM | and in that part it is slightly incompatable with bzflag |
| 17:10.45 | whodaman- | Ok, I'm glad you've told me all this, I even edited quiet a bit |
| 17:10.46 | JeffM | since we DO allow comerical distrobution |
| 17:11.23 | whodaman- | blast007, I actually did get some from here http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/index.php |
| 17:11.24 | Erroneous | it's perfectly acceptable to use cc-nc for texture and sound packs, you just can't distribute them as a unit with bzflag |
| 17:11.34 | JeffM | now since a sound pack would be seperate from BZ the comerical distobution part may not make a big deal, since they simply coult not distibute the sound pack. |
| 17:11.45 | JeffM | heh, same thing I just said :) |
| 17:11.55 | JeffM | thats why I mean they are compatable |
| 17:12.08 | JeffM | they have a redistrobution clause |
| 17:12.15 | whodaman- | So I should ALWAYS make sure what the licenses are if I'm doing anything like this |
| 17:12.19 | JeffM | full copyright has not distrobution |
| 17:12.20 | whodaman- | or artwork as you said |
| 17:12.27 | JeffM | for anything |
| 17:12.33 | JeffM | even code |
| 17:12.40 | delusional_ | I might defer to the usage for some star wars mashup films, which lucasfilm has semi-licensed under creative commons. This is relevant.. but not exactly what i'm looking for http://onthecommons.org/node/1160 |
| 17:13.52 | JeffM | I don't belive that license is a CC approved license |
| 17:14.08 | JeffM | its a "use our site, muck up these clips, we can play them, and we own them" |
| 17:14.13 | JeffM | that's kinda the oposite of CC |
| 17:14.34 | Tedius | http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/index.php |
| 17:14.50 | JeffM | yes freesound is cool |
| 17:15.01 | whodaman- | I was also using that... |
| 17:15.10 | JeffM | freesound has good licenses |
| 17:15.59 | whodaman- | So I'll just have to be careful about what I copy etc |
| 17:16.37 | JeffM | whodaman-, now you should also know, that all of this only has to do with what you do with our public services. We can not tell you what you can or can not host on your own systems. |
| 17:16.46 | JeffM | but any laws you break would be on your head |
| 17:16.53 | JeffM | and we'd have nothing to do with it |
| 17:17.29 | JeffM | the only reason I mentoned it was becaue I was told you'd be posting it on the fourms, and that is one of our public services |
| 17:17.55 | JeffM | we have to respect copyright law since that is what is keeping people from stealing our code/resources. |
| 17:18.19 | whodaman- | So only because I was going to release this on the forums you had something to do with it. |
| 17:18.24 | JeffM | yes |
| 17:18.40 | JeffM | if you put it on your own website, there is no way any of us could do anything to stop you |
| 17:18.49 | JeffM | now we could still be sad that you choise to steal |
| 17:18.53 | JeffM | but it'd be your server |
| 17:18.56 | whodaman- | even though it *is* associated to bzflag? |
| 17:19.07 | JeffM | so |
| 17:19.15 | whodaman- | No, I was just asking :P |
| 17:19.31 | whodaman- | as long as it's away from the public services bzbb it's out of your hands |
| 17:19.32 | JeffM | we will not support illegal activities on our public services |
| 17:19.56 | JeffM | you can do whatever you want with the software, you are responsible for your own uses of it |
| 17:20.23 | JeffM | if we feel your uses threaten the project, we will prevent you from making those uses affect us |
| 17:20.29 | JeffM | for our own legal protection |
| 17:20.39 | JeffM | but yeah, we can't stop you from doing what ever you want to do |
| 17:20.49 | whodaman- | OK, that all makes sense |
| 17:20.51 | JeffM | you want to try to use bzflag to run a toaster, have at it |
| 17:21.06 | JeffM | you want to change all the textures to be copyright images, that's all you |
| 17:21.38 | JeffM | you post on the fourms telling people how to get copryighted materials that are not redistributable, we have to step in |
| 17:21.47 | JeffM | since we own the boards. |
| 17:21.54 | whodaman- | yep |
| 17:22.07 | whodaman- | well, I'm certainly not going to do that |
| 17:22.14 | JeffM | same reason we don't do image hosting for copyright images |
| 17:23.45 | whodaman- | Right, well thanks for the explanation, I'm definitely not going to post it |
| 17:23.45 | brlcad | erm, we host copyrighted images |
| 17:23.45 | JeffM | just remember, the fact that you are giving away the thing you stole, does not mean you didn't steal it. |
| 17:23.47 | JeffM | ok, copyright images that don't allow distrobution :) |
| 17:23.48 | whodaman- | OK, thanks for the headsup |
| 17:23.50 | brlcad | the copyright holder has to have placed the content under a redistribution license |
| 17:23.53 | JeffM | all our images are copyruight |
| 17:24.00 | brlcad | copyright != license |
| 17:24.04 | L4m3r | copyleft ;) |
| 17:24.04 | JeffM | indeed |
| 17:24.27 | brlcad | some of them aren't copyrighted |
| 17:24.32 | brlcad | the ones that are in the public domain |
| 17:24.42 | JeffM | ahh |
| 17:24.45 | brlcad | but the majority are copyrighted under some open source license |
| 17:25.14 | L4m3r | isn't public domain essentially a copyright without any rights? :P |
| 17:25.21 | JeffM | and no holder |
| 17:25.27 | L4m3r | I mean, someone has to put it there |
| 17:25.37 | JeffM | but they gave up copyuright |
| 17:25.43 | brlcad | not really the same |
| 17:25.46 | JeffM | since they don't have I don't think they can relicense it |
| 17:26.04 | JeffM | a copyright holder can relisense his work as many times as he wants |
| 17:26.07 | brlcad | yeah, it's also giving up authorship/ownership, so not just removing rights |
| 17:26.16 | L4m3r | ah, I see |
| 17:26.21 | JeffM | tim could grant a comercial license to anyone he wanted to |
| 17:26.39 | JeffM | because he is the copyright holder |
| 17:26.59 | brlcad | which is why some countries won't let you release works into the public domain because they consider original authorship something that can't be relinquished |
| 17:27.27 | JeffM | disney must LOVE those countries :) |
| 17:27.52 | brlcad | i.e. "moral rights" |
| 17:27.59 | L4m3r | disney is evil :) |
| 17:28.14 | JeffM | everyone is evil in some way |
| 17:28.31 | brlcad | those places usually do have a roughly equivalent means to get to public domain, effectively forked undistributed rights |
| 17:28.52 | brlcad | s/undistributed/unrestricted and nonexclusive/ |
| 17:28.55 | JeffM | but that'd be up to the copyright holder |
| 17:29.28 | brlcad | to the "original author" whether they claim/hold copyright or not |
| 17:29.37 | brlcad | specific to those countries that define moral rights |
| 17:29.50 | brlcad | u.s. isn't like that |
| 17:30.07 | brlcad | *most* places aren't like that, but there's a handful of those countries |
| 17:30.31 | JeffM | intersting, so they don't have the same transfer of copyright? |
| 17:30.37 | brlcad | nope |
| 17:30.39 | delusional_ | I think if lucasfilm allows the use of actual film clips in video mashups, if as they can step in later and claim ownership if any profits arise, there is no problem with using a few sounds owned by lucasfilm, that maybe a few hundred people will use, worldwide. |
| 17:30.47 | brlcad | they don't allow you to give up your authorship |
| 17:31.12 | JeffM | so you can just give say a production company a licesne to sell your book |
| 17:31.16 | JeffM | I see |
| 17:31.17 | brlcad | part inalienable right, part liability |
| 17:31.31 | brlcad | yeah, you can get the same end-result |
| 17:31.41 | brlcad | but through completely different terms and methods |
| 17:31.54 | JeffM | has to suck after people die |
| 17:36.58 | delusional_ | If lucasfilm allows this.... what whodaman is doing is trivial http://www.atomfilms.com/2007/starwars/challenge/infoguide.jsp |
| 17:38.00 | delusional_ | it says you can use up to 30 seconds of continuous music |
| 17:38.23 | L4m3r | what about sound effects? |
| 17:39.13 | JeffM | delusional_, bzflag is hot a short fan made movie |
| 17:39.29 | JeffM | or a parody film, comic or book |
| 17:39.31 | JeffM | or a documentry |
| 17:39.38 | JeffM | etc.. |
| 17:39.47 | JeffM | that is NOT a distrobution license |
| 17:40.22 | L4m3r | also note that a lot of the sound production in star wars is well-documented, so it's easy to reproduce a lot of the sound effects used |
| 17:40.23 | JeffM | they basicly say, if you make a new work and upload it to US, it's cool. |
| 17:40.41 | L4m3r | so a random sound you find online isn't necessarily theirs |
| 17:41.05 | JeffM | no matter how you try to twist it, you can't make a game that uses rips from the movie |
| 17:41.13 | JeffM | yeah you can remake a sound that is VERY similar |
| 17:41.16 | JeffM | then that is your work |
| 17:41.22 | JeffM | but you can't rip from a movie |
| 17:41.25 | JeffM | end of line |
| 17:42.49 | JeffM | to do the same deal, we'd have to get the same kind of distribution license that atom films got from lucasarts |
| 17:43.15 | JeffM | basicly THEY got a license to show movies on the website that contain those works. |
| 17:43.34 | JeffM | that says nothing about allowing ANYONE to go and use that and redistribute it anywhere. |
| 17:43.35 | delusional_ | alright, i give up. |
| 17:43.58 | JeffM | that liceense would have to come from lucasarts |
| 17:44.10 | JeffM | and be given to you |
| 17:44.52 | QuantumB | I'm thinking that a Star Wars sound pack for BZ would be horrible anyway |
| 17:46.30 | Saturos_ | Because Star Wars is horrible anyways. :p |
| 17:49.06 | Saturps | X_x |
| 17:49.36 | *** part/#bzflag Saturps (n=Saturos@p57A0D5AA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:49.57 | *** join/#bzflag Saturos (n=Saturos@p57A0D5AA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:53.42 | *** join/#bzflag Saturos_ (n=Saturos@p57A0F609.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:56.23 | *** join/#bzflag Epyon (i=Epyon@host99.180.219.81.magma-net.pl) |
| 18:10.50 | *** part/#bzflag nn-mai1 (n=nn@74.94.43.196) |
| 18:11.14 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (n=dtremena@67-131-219-2.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 18:15.27 | JeffM | DTRemenak, you and Erroneous are reversed |
| 18:15.39 | DTRemenak | indeed |
| 18:16.04 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 18:16.04 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 18:39.00 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=Spazzy_M@unaffiliated/spazzymcgee) |
| 19:04.01 | polydektes | hmm without you JeffM, i shudder to think what juveniles would do with this game |
| 19:06.45 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 19:06.45 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 19:08.26 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 19:22.27 | *** join/#bzflag Warinthestar (n=Warinthe@1.168.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 19:34.25 | *** join/#bzflag QBeep (n=QuantumB@72.47.73.208) |
| 19:48.10 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-114-69-187.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 19:51.16 | *** join/#bzflag Warinthestar (n=Warinthe@1.168.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 19:54.31 | *** join/#bzflag Doctor-Who (n=Net_Smar@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:00.22 | *** join/#bzflag thefirstdude (n=inferno@216-161-133-10.dlth.qwest.net) |
| 20:10.28 | thefirstdude | hi |
| 20:10.35 | tannerld | :O |
| 20:10.39 | tannerld | 'ello inferno |
| 20:11.21 | thefirstdude | hey, I'm back from basic |
| 20:11.34 | tannerld | (yay) |
| 20:12.42 | thefirstdude | what have you been doing all this time |
| 20:13.44 | tannerld | eh not much |
| 20:21.16 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@63.147.94.149) |
| 20:21.16 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 20:23.11 | *** join/#bzflag rob1n (n=emp@unaffiliated/rob1n) |
| 20:24.59 | *** join/#bzflag randomparticle (n=randompa@about/essy/snick/randomparticle) |
| 20:28.57 | *** join/#bzflag purple_cow (n=david@208.69.182.150) |
| 20:28.57 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o purple_cow] by ChanServ |
| 20:34.03 | *** join/#bzflag phnk (n=jdp34@69.74.217.51) |
| 20:51.08 | *** join/#bzflag nn-main (n=nn@74.94.43.196) |
| 20:51.29 | *** join/#bzflag macsforme (i=c63c7901@gateway/web/cgi-irc/bzflagr.net/x-55918d05de17a792) |
| 20:51.36 | Winny | macsforme: :D |
| 20:51.51 | macsforme | :) |
| 20:52.45 | nn-main | JeffM, my fourm account became inactive when I tryed to change my account email address to my new email address? Can you please reactivate it |
| 20:53.14 | Winny | JeffM: Don't do it! :p |
| 20:53.33 | blast007 | Winny: please shut up |
| 20:53.49 | blast007 | nn-main: did it send you a new email? |
| 20:53.58 | Winny | blast007: your joke-o-meter is broken |
| 20:54.03 | Winny | you might wanna get it fixed |
| 20:54.11 | blast007 | if the email you changed it to is valid, use the Forgot Password feature |
| 20:54.37 | blast007 | Winny: no need for that kind of comment though |
| 20:54.49 | Winny | blast007: ... |
| 20:55.00 | Winny | once again, your joke-o-meter is broken |
| 20:59.02 | nn-main | blast007, Thanks that fixed it. I didn't realize I had to reactivat it form my new email :) |
| 20:59.14 | blast007 | yup |
| 21:02.00 | DTRemenak | ~blast007++ |
| 21:05.14 | CBG | shut up Winny |
| 21:07.14 | ts | sb goto 21:00 |
| 21:07.17 | ts | oops |
| 21:07.45 | blast007 | ts: the cool part is that when someone (maybe you) forgot the / on that command, I learned a new command ;) |
| 21:08.05 | ts | blast007: Do you use irrsi, too? |
| 21:08.12 | blast007 | yeah |
| 21:08.15 | ts | :) |
| 21:08.25 | blast007 | best client I've used :) |
| 21:08.32 | CBG | sb... scrollback? |
| 21:08.33 | Tupone | what that command is for? |
| 21:08.36 | tannerld | oh neat |
| 21:08.38 | blast007 | yeah, scrollback |
| 21:08.39 | tannerld | scrollback |
| 21:08.45 | blast007 | lets you go back to a certain time |
| 21:09.09 | donny_baker | wow, that is usefull... no mpre holding pageup :P |
| 21:09.19 | tannerld | donny_baker: lol |
| 21:09.23 | tannerld | ~ts++ |
| 21:09.24 | ts | blast007: Well, I use it because I can detach and disconnect while I play..so it uses no CPU |
| 21:09.45 | blast007 | ts: I use it because I can access it from work, home, etc ;) |
| 21:09.48 | CBG | cpu is that important, huh? :) |
| 21:09.54 | CBG | cgi:irc ftw |
| 21:09.58 | blast007 | speaking of work... time to get back to work :) |
| 21:10.09 | CBG | you never work, blast007, and you know it |
| 21:10.19 | ts | CBG: Well, when I play I don't want something else using my CPU :) |
| 21:10.39 | CBG | what CPU do you have..? |
| 21:10.54 | ts | Old one..PPC970@2GHZ |
| 21:11.34 | CBG | doubt you need to worry about bzflag + irssi with any 2GHz processor... :) |
| 21:12.14 | Tupone | when is writing characters on the screen, you worry |
| 21:12.26 | ts | Maybe I don't need to but I worry about anything |
| 21:12.46 | Tupone | depends how many. Maybe is not CPU but GPU |
| 21:17.22 | randomparticle | BZ uses about 10% of 1 core here |
| 21:17.27 | randomparticle | that's 2GHz |
| 21:18.34 | *** join/#bzflag ibot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 21:18.34 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9453 || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || http://my.bzflag.org/w/ || 2.0.10 is out, now shuddap. |
| 21:18.34 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o ibot] by ChanServ |
| 21:18.35 | randomparticle | it's the core that's 2GHz |
| 21:18.41 | randomparticle | or clocked at that |
| 21:18.51 | randomparticle | nobody needs 600fps or whatever |
| 21:19.00 | Tupone | bzflag needs |
| 21:19.03 | randomparticle | most displays only do 60Hz |
| 21:19.23 | Tupone | well , bzflag logic is tied to the refresh loops :( |
| 21:19.39 | Tupone | so at 60 Hz there is a jitter of 1/60 |
| 21:19.48 | Tupone | more or less |
| 21:20.00 | randomparticle | the consequence of which is...? |
| 21:20.31 | Tupone | bad position of tanks and illness |
| 21:21.01 | randomparticle | so i should be doing really badly at 30fps then? :) |
| 21:21.15 | Tupone | really bzflag should be threaded |
| 21:21.36 | ts | heh --enable-threads is not even compiling anymore |
| 21:21.54 | Tupone | --enable-threads was not meant for that. It was for kerberos |
| 21:22.02 | ts | oh |
| 21:22.02 | Tupone | both are gone |
| 21:22.16 | randomparticle | a minimal clocked phys engine would be nice |
| 21:23.26 | Tupone | clocked with ? what you mean? |
| 21:23.36 | randomparticle | to a fixed rate |
| 21:24.34 | Tupone | I think it should get data asynchronously, and then maybe send data at video refresh rate |
| 21:24.58 | Tupone | asynchronous/as they arrive |
| 21:25.16 | randomparticle | but really, 30fps, 600fps, makes very little difference in actual play. the other factors are.. overwhelming |
| 21:25.32 | *** join/#bzflag Doctor-Who (n=Net_Smar@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:26.07 | Tupone | I feel 80/90 is good, lower is not. But that is a personal feeling |
| 21:26.32 | ts | Well, there is also a physological difference |
| 21:26.32 | *** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@151.201.126.138) |
| 21:26.57 | Tupone | I actually meant that |
| 21:27.07 | Tupone | when saying personal feeling |
| 21:27.16 | *** join/#bzflag Doctor-Who (n=Net_Smar@adsl-068-209-251-067.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:27.22 | ts | People feel "slowness" at <n FPS where n can be 30 until 90 |
| 21:28.25 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 21:28.29 | randomparticle | 1/90s is way below human reaction times |
| 21:29.06 | randomparticle | i think these advantages are mostly imagined |
| 21:29.07 | Tupone | maybe better then putting a delay before drawing the screen, putting a micro delay and jumping sometime the screen refresh |
| 21:29.45 | nn-main | Winny, which server do you run? |
| 21:29.54 | Winny | BZFlagr.net |
| 21:30.09 | nn-main | wow nice |
| 21:30.53 | Winny | meh. The only reason it's popular is 'cause of the nooby maps. |
| 21:31.46 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (i=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 21:31.46 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 21:33.19 | JeffM | most humans can't see over 30-45fps |
| 21:33.25 | nn-main | oh I see that makes sence missle war and blood bath are simple maps but also fun :). I was begining to wonder when people would get board of playing the same map all the time. I guess most of the people we have are not frequent commers. |
| 21:33.26 | JeffM | meatlag |
| 21:33.28 | randomparticle | indeed |
| 21:34.57 | randomparticle | i think that's why tv has a refresh rate of 48Hz or so |
| 21:35.18 | Winny | nn-main: most people just get good at one map, or it just becomes a routine |
| 21:35.20 | randomparticle | might be different over there |
| 21:35.45 | ts | The physological part implies humans can _notice_ the difference, though do not "see" the difference |
| 21:35.50 | nn-main | ah |
| 21:36.07 | randomparticle | or it's a placebo effect? |
| 21:36.14 | JeffM | pall refresh is 50 |
| 21:36.19 | JeffM | with a drop frame |
| 21:36.23 | JeffM | NTCS is 60 |
| 21:36.32 | JeffM | tho those are fields/sec not full frames |
| 21:36.36 | JeffM | each of them are interlaced |
| 21:37.17 | JeffM | ts, depends on what causes the psycosis, if it's seeing a number of "30" rather then "90" then it's the display of that number that is the problem, NOT the frame rate |
| 21:37.39 | ts | JeffM: Indeed :) |
| 21:37.47 | JeffM | you'd have to do tests with real and fake numbers compared to frame rate |
| 21:40.16 | Chestal | 0.1s is about the fastest possible reaction time for everything which is not fully automated (no brain needed :-) |
| 21:41.46 | Chestal | I like to have 60+ and stable |
| 21:42.17 | CBG | fluctuating fps between 10 and 30 ftw! :D |
| 21:42.22 | Chestal | urgs |
| 21:42.29 | Chestal | I used to play with that years ago |
| 21:42.34 | JeffM | we should chan ge the FPS display to just be "crap", "Meh", "good enough" "Ok" and "Sweet" |
| 21:42.36 | Chestal | and it certainly is a disadvantage |
| 21:42.54 | CBG | that's why I always sucked? :P |
| 21:43.36 | Chestal | that must be it :-) |
| 21:43.37 | *** join/#bzflag whoodaman-_ (n=whodaman@dslb-088-066-009-167.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:43.49 | Tupone | Well, my point is not FPS, my point is that the physic engine suck at low FPS |
| 21:44.18 | CBG | you're either too kind, Chestal, or rather insane. :P |
| 21:44.20 | Tupone | we are adding extra random delay |
| 21:44.31 | JeffM | our sim is crap at both high and low deltaT |
| 21:45.07 | CBG | it's all crap! |
| 21:45.17 | randomparticle | :) |
| 21:45.30 | JeffM | it'd be fine at a moderate fixed delta |
| 21:45.40 | JeffM | but if we expect it to be dynamic then we have to do some work |
| 21:45.50 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 21:45.51 | randomparticle | i wonder what 1fps costs me in Watts |
| 21:46.48 | Winny | your extra FPS could be feeding children in africa |
| 21:47.28 | L4m3r | JeffM, add "Holy Crap" and "You're gonna start bouncing off the walls" to that list |
| 21:47.31 | CBG | let the adults sufferm yeah. |
| 21:47.35 | CBG | suffer,* |
| 21:47.51 | CBG | L4m3r: what's that? 80 and 00 fps..? :P |
| 21:48.00 | JeffM | or just 3 colors, red yellow, green |
| 21:48.08 | L4m3r | I think over a couple hundred it starts getting bouncy :P |
| 21:48.14 | JeffM | and cap it at like 90fps |
| 21:48.35 | randomparticle | L4m3r: it's a probability thing |
| 21:48.50 | randomparticle | the higher the fps, the greater the chance of a bounce |
| 21:49.07 | randomparticle | i found the bug a while back. isn't it fixed? |
| 21:49.21 | CBG | randomparticle: WHICH bug? :P |
| 21:49.29 | randomparticle | the rubber wall bug :) |
| 21:49.38 | CBG | :P |
| 21:49.55 | JeffM | should be harder to get now in .10 |
| 22:01.07 | *** part/#bzflag phnk (n=jdp34@69.74.217.51) |
| 22:05.37 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r_ (i=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 22:05.37 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r_] by ChanServ |
| 22:16.22 | tannerld | does hiding join messages in bzadmin not work for anyone else? |
| 22:16.27 | tannerld | or is it just a 2.0.8 |
| 22:29.08 | *** join/#bzflag Epyon (i=Epyon@host99.180.219.81.magma-net.pl) |
| 22:33.45 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 22:35.50 | Winny | JeffM: is there any way to get BZFS to log the size of packets it sends out? |
| 22:36.02 | JeffM | with a plug-in probalby |
| 22:36.16 | JeffM | there are event hooks for data in and data out that have the sizes |
| 22:36.24 | JeffM | if I did that for 2.x |
| 22:36.46 | JeffM | let me look |
| 22:36.58 | L4m3r | the net data events are in bzfsapi.h for 2.0 |
| 22:37.29 | JeffM | bz_eNetDataSendEvent |
| 22:37.30 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:37.31 | JeffM | use that |
| 22:37.34 | JeffM | get the size |
| 22:37.35 | JeffM | log it out |
| 22:38.25 | Winny | hmm, ok |
| 22:38.44 | JeffM | you want it to write the log on a per packet basis? |
| 22:38.56 | JeffM | or like every 30-40 packets? |
| 22:39.27 | Winny | hmm |
| 22:40.25 | Winny | I suppose it wouldn't really matter. Trying to figure out why players can't completly join, and I'm guessing, like you said, from the "send queue too big" error, we have TCP packetloss |
| 22:40.34 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:40.45 | JeffM | if you get that message you have 20k of data pending |
| 22:41.53 | *** join/#bzflag Wasp32 (i=c63c7901@gateway/web/cgi-irc/bzflagr.net/x-997534fbc365fa20) |
| 22:41.54 | Winny | 20 per players, or 20 total? |
| 22:42.03 | JeffM | per net connection |
| 22:42.07 | JeffM | I think |
| 22:42.44 | JeffM | yeah it's per handler |
| 22:42.47 | JeffM | so per connection |
| 22:42.58 | Winny | hmm |
| 22:43.18 | JeffM | that player has probalby laged or packet lossed out during the world send |
| 22:43.48 | JeffM | we send a lot of data at join |
| 22:43.57 | JeffM | player udpates for everyone |
| 22:43.58 | JeffM | the map |
| 22:44.01 | JeffM | where all the flags are |
| 22:44.05 | JeffM | all the scores |
| 22:44.08 | Winny | the world loads, and the flags do. But the flags created by ZONEFLAG or the players don't load |
| 22:44.09 | JeffM | all the players, etcc. |
| 22:44.11 | JeffM | it add sup |
| 22:44.11 | *** join/#bzflag macsforme (i=c63c7901@gateway/web/cgi-irc/bzflagr.net/x-3197cdc6ed987dab) |
| 22:44.29 | JeffM | zoneflag is a plug-in? |
| 22:44.45 | Winny | zoneflag is a way to define flags in a map |
| 22:44.48 | JeffM | ahh |
| 22:44.53 | JeffM | perhaps that sends too much data |
| 22:45.00 | Winny | the flags added via +f{g} 2 or whatever load |
| 22:45.12 | Winny | but not the players or the flags made by zonflag |
| 22:45.18 | JeffM | you do any sort of packet shaping or throttling? |
| 22:45.26 | Winny | I'd assume not. Dedicated server |
| 22:45.46 | JeffM | are your OS tcp buffers big enough? |
| 22:46.18 | Winny | no idea how to check that, Ill look it up |
| 22:47.55 | Winny | that does seem to make sense. Seeing as we have about 60 players on the box. |
| 22:56.41 | *** join/#bzflag mmcgirr (n=mmcgirr@mail.rpsct.com) |
| 22:58.17 | *** join/#bzflag L4m3r (i=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r) |
| 22:58.17 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r] by ChanServ |
| 22:58.56 | *** join/#bzflag fiberchunks (n=frobozz@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/Fiberchunks) |
| 23:00.55 | fiberchunks | ping |
| 23:01.16 | JeffM | plop |
| 23:01.23 | fiberchunks | thanks :) |
| 23:02.04 | macsforme | Permission denied: please use -b when pinging broadcast (root privilege required). |
| 23:02.08 | fiberchunks | hey JeffM, you ever had to troubleshoot vpn problems on win server 2k3? |
| 23:02.16 | JeffM | nope |
| 23:02.24 | fiberchunks | shoot -- this is driving me nuts |
| 23:02.25 | JeffM | got them to hire competent IT for that ;) |
| 23:02.31 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 23:03.04 | *** join/#bzflag ViciousM (n=max@adsl-065-013-159-245.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 23:03.05 | fiberchunks | heh, they won't hire and I'm not competent :) |
| 23:03.34 | a_meteorite | fiberchunks! |
| 23:03.39 | fiberchunks | allo :) |
| 23:03.46 | a_meteorite | hi |
| 23:11.49 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm) |
| 23:24.07 | *** join/#bzflag SportChick (i=essy@freenode/staff/sportchick) |
| 23:24.07 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v SportChick] by ChanServ |
| 23:32.11 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ |
| 23:37.15 | *** join/#bzflag retro (n=ksumrall@wall.danger.com) |
| 23:39.25 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=vircuser@c-98-197-19-35.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 23:55.19 | *** join/#bzflag FleshEatingEwok (n=Connor@24.106.227.36) |
| 23:56.34 | *** part/#bzflag FleshEatingEwok (n=Connor@24.106.227.36) |