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| 00:32.06 | Suspect | I'm in the IRC channel and I didn't even notice ... lol |
| 00:32.29 | Suspect | A well deserved bop :P |
| 00:33.34 | Suspect | I don't look in here very much lol wow |
| 00:33.39 | Suspect | Nearly a month ago |
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| 01:16.27 | ircleuser | Hello. I'm trying to compile the new version of BZFlag (2.0.10) on Mac OS X, and I'm running into errors. Could someone help me? |
| 01:16.53 | Winny | 10.5? |
| 01:16.55 | brlcad | ircleuser: what errors? |
| 01:17.16 | brlcad | and if you've not already, you should read the README.MacOSX file |
| 01:17.32 | ircleuser | brlcad: Thanks, I've read it already. |
| 01:17.40 | ircleuser | I'll copy the errors from the log, just a minute. |
| 01:18.18 | ircleuser | This seems to be the main error: "make[2]: Nothing to be done for `all'." |
| 01:18.25 | brlcad | that's not an error |
| 01:18.50 | brlcad | that's part of the normal make/build/compilation process |
| 01:18.50 | ircleuser | At the end, it says: "collect2: ld returned 1 exit status |
| 01:18.50 | ircleuser | make[2]: *** [bzfs] Error 1 |
| 01:18.50 | ircleuser | make[1]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1 |
| 01:19.05 | brlcad | that would be closer to an error |
| 01:19.09 | brlcad | put the entire output in pastebin |
| 01:19.32 | brlcad | ~bzpastebin |
| 01:19.33 | ibot | methinks bzpastebin is http://pastebin.bzflag.bz or a place to put large chunks of text so as not to flood a channel |
| 01:20.18 | ircleuser | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m165cdb8a |
| 01:20.27 | ircleuser | That's the output for make |
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| 01:21.24 | brlcad | for future info, the actual error starts on that line that says: /usr/bin/ld: Undefined symbols: |
| 01:21.50 | ircleuser | Ah, thanks. |
| 01:23.11 | brlcad | are you building in xcode or on command line? |
| 01:23.32 | ircleuser | I tried xcode but it found one error, so I moved to the command line. |
| 01:24.07 | ircleuser | I typed sudo ./autogen.sh, then sudo ./configure, and finally, sudo make. |
| 01:24.47 | brlcad | what does this show you: grep plugin_files src/bzfs/Makefile |
| 01:25.33 | ircleuser | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m24bcf939 |
| 01:26.24 | brlcad | hm, so plugins are disabled |
| 01:26.45 | brlcad | shouldn't have got the undefined symbols regardless of the setting, but something is obviously amiss |
| 01:27.12 | ircleuser | Maybe xcode messed up the code when I ran it. |
| 01:27.48 | brlcad | nah, not if you ran autogen.sh and configure (which btw, you shouldn't sudo) |
| 01:28.13 | brlcad | should only ever need to "sudo make install" and in bzflag's case you don't even really want/need to do that |
| 01:28.42 | brlcad | well, try this: ./configure --enable-shared |
| 01:28.45 | brlcad | then do that grep again |
| 01:28.56 | ircleuser | Okay |
| 01:29.06 | brlcad | it "should" be slightly different |
| 01:29.20 | brlcad | if not, it can be fixed by hand |
| 01:30.23 | brlcad | to not confuse you, since you did run sudo configure and sudo make, you'll have to keep running them via sudo now that administrator (root) owns a bunch of files or you'll get permission denied |
| 01:30.53 | ircleuser | I just ran it without sudo |
| 01:31.53 | brlcad | you can "fix" things with: find . -user root -exec chown yourusername {} \; |
| 01:32.01 | brlcad | or chown -R yourusername . |
| 01:32.12 | brlcad | er, sudo find or sudo chown |
| 01:34.20 | ircleuser | When I ran ./configure without sudo, I got the same results for grep. I'm re-running ./configure now that I did sudo chown. |
| 01:34.49 | brlcad | the important step was to run with --enable-shared |
| 01:35.31 | ircleuser | I did |
| 01:35.35 | brlcad | sudo just means "run this command as an administrator" |
| 01:35.55 | ircleuser | Same results for grep after ./configure --enable-shared |
| 01:37.19 | ircleuser | I have an iMac G5 with a PPC processor if that makes any difference. |
| 01:37.42 | brlcad | not at all |
| 01:38.54 | brlcad | ircleuser: so getting the build will take a couple of steps, but is there a particular reason you're trying to compile it yourself? |
| 01:39.18 | ircleuser | 2.0.10 isn't yet available for Mac as a binary. |
| 01:40.06 | brlcad | there's a build here: http://beta.bzflag.bz/builds/2.0.x/MacOSX/BZFlag-2.0.10.dmg |
| 01:40.27 | ircleuser | Is it a beta build or is that the final version? |
| 01:40.30 | brlcad | it's just not been put into a proper dmg wrapper yet that gives the pretty background |
| 01:40.31 | *** join/#bzflag hwilde (n=hwilde@pool-151-201-14-62.pitt.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:40.40 | hwilde | configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables |
| 01:40.43 | hwilde | ? |
| 01:41.03 | blast007 | hwilde: do you have your compiler installed? |
| 01:41.11 | brlcad | ircleuser: that's the final version -- and it's not really any different from RC3 either |
| 01:41.21 | brlcad | hwilde: look near the end of config.log |
| 01:41.40 | brlcad | it'll say why it failed |
| 01:42.00 | hwilde | it says gcc is installed |
| 01:42.14 | hwilde | conf.log says configure: exit 77 |
| 01:42.36 | blast007 | what about g++? |
| 01:42.45 | brlcad | the code isn't helpful, it says why elsewhere in the config.log |
| 01:43.23 | brlcad | maybe a few lines before the exit code if that was the exit code before it determined that the C compiler didn't work |
| 01:43.52 | hwilde | let me reinstall g++ if thats what it is looking for |
| 01:43.53 | brlcad | usually that happens why you feed it bogus CFLAGS/CPPFLAGS/LDFLAGS |
| 01:44.08 | hwilde | i fed nothing just ./configure |
| 01:44.11 | brlcad | it would have a different error if it was g++ |
| 01:44.11 | ircleuser | In that case, I can just download the .dmg, thanks. For future reference, is there a quick fix to my compiler troubles? |
| 01:44.34 | brlcad | you really shouldn't just guess -- either look for the error or paste your config.log up so someone else can help you look for the actual error |
| 01:44.50 | brlcad | otherwise, you could guess all night and get nowhere |
| 01:45.08 | hwilde | its ok I reinstalled g++ and got much further now |
| 01:45.18 | hwilde | what version of libcurl does it want |
| 01:46.03 | brlcad | or you just might get lucky |
| 01:46.41 | hwilde | it takes my tank 15seconds to burrow into the ground |
| 01:47.05 | brlcad | you pressed the 'a' key at some point? |
| 01:47.12 | hwilde | no keyboard motion |
| 01:47.23 | hwilde | i think it is my graphics card maybe, because my old computer did not do this |
| 01:47.38 | hwilde | badgerkind said try to download the version from the website, bc i was using what comes with ubuntu |
| 01:48.00 | hwilde | that did not make any difference so I am going to compile on my system :) |
| 01:48.18 | hwilde | he says my gms are too fast and my rotational velocity is higher as well |
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| 01:53.57 | hwilde | ok so after make where is the binary |
| 01:54.27 | blast007 | ./src/bzflag/bzflag |
| 01:55.53 | hwilde | Could not initialize SDL Video subsystem: DirectFBCreate: Initialization error!. |
| 01:56.01 | hwilde | (!) DirectFB/FBDev: Use 'fbdev' option or set FRAMEBUFFER environment variable. |
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| 01:58.03 | blast007 | hwilde: eh, interesting |
| 01:58.20 | blast007 | is there more than one version of SDL? |
| 01:58.27 | blast007 | maybe one that's for X11/xorg? |
| 02:00.20 | hwilde | libsdl-dev i guess |
| 02:00.30 | hwilde | there is version 1.2 as well |
| 02:01.27 | blast007 | I mostly build on Windows |
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| 02:09.52 | hwilde | is it possible to get the radar full screen on a second monitor |
| 02:10.15 | blast007 | no |
| 02:10.22 | blast007 | not unless you like coding |
| 02:11.09 | hwilde | anything is possible u know |
| 02:11.13 | hwilde | u just gotta believe |
| 02:12.53 | tannerld_ | heh |
| 02:13.24 | a_meteorite | do you believe in learning on how to speak properly and learning a new programming language? |
| 02:14.18 | *** join/#bzflag nn-main (n=nn@74.94.43.196) |
| 02:14.40 | nn-main | hi winy im baned form missle war for 2 to 3 weeks now |
| 02:14.54 | nn-main | and your other map also |
| 02:15.08 | whodaman- | nn-main, bzflagr.net uses a global-banning system |
| 02:15.11 | a_meteorite | nn, so nice of you to join us. if you would like to contest a ban, please speak in proper english. thanks! |
| 02:15.21 | whodaman- | and if you ping him, might do it with his correct name, Winny |
| 02:15.27 | tannerld_ | .... |
| 02:15.56 | whodaman- | this is something to be handled with Winny or other admins so join ##bzflagr |
| 02:16.18 | a_meteorite | that is indeed the proper channel |
| 02:16.56 | whodaman- | Nobody here cares. |
| 02:17.32 | nn-main | it dosen't really matter i don't need winy's server just thought i would just say it .... im just bord .... oh someones on my server ....... nv mind |
| 02:17.49 | a_meteorite | if you are just here to say it, then you are not welcome |
| 02:17.52 | blast007 | have fun lagging, I mean, playing |
| 02:17.56 | whodaman- | rofl |
| 02:18.01 | a_meteorite | the bzflag project has nothing to do with individual servers |
| 02:18.02 | whodaman- | nn-main, can you read? |
| 02:18.13 | whodaman- | use "tab-complete" |
| 02:18.18 | a_meteorite | and having a conversation with yourself is oh-so 90s |
| 02:18.32 | whodaman- | anyway, don't make people read your boredom in here |
| 02:19.50 | brlcad | a_meteorite: please don't antagonize people in this channel at least about writing properly -- if it gets out of hand, there are plenty that can deal with it |
| 02:20.22 | a_meteorite | it's quite annoying when he presents a non-related problem in broken english |
| 02:20.35 | a_meteorite | for the hundredth time or so |
| 02:20.37 | brlcad | it may be, but you even started on the other person before him |
| 02:20.57 | a_meteorite | I would not be surprised if they are related to each other ;) |
| 02:22.52 | brlcad | it's still not anyone's place to antagonize, i've yet to see it *ever* be productive when it comes to the aolspeakers |
| 02:23.09 | brlcad | just starts a flamewar |
| 02:23.15 | a_meteorite | it's not exactly productive when everyone has to mentally translate what someone is saying |
| 02:23.29 | *** join/#bzflag scorpio2 (n=scorpio1@80.148.21.187) |
| 02:24.00 | brlcad | so set them on ignore and be done with it |
| 02:24.08 | brlcad | it doesn't stop them from writing that way |
| 02:24.28 | brlcad | it just gets them talking more like that if only to respond to the antagonizing challenges |
| 02:24.36 | a_meteorite | not unless people like you take notice and take care of it |
| 02:24.52 | a_meteorite | I'm a bzflagr admin, I don't want him coming back with his aolspeak saying I didn't even look at his contest of a ban |
| 02:24.53 | brlcad | meaning everyone not only has to listen to it, but now they have to listen to it more, and none of it is useful |
| 02:25.04 | a_meteorite | anyways, he should take this to the appropriate channel: ##bzflagr |
| 02:25.35 | brlcad | that's all beside the point |
| 02:26.03 | a_meteorite | I'm sorry you feel that way |
| 02:26.05 | brlcad | he never asked a question, just made a couple statements |
| 02:26.15 | a_meteorite | the statements aren't relevant here |
| 02:26.33 | a_meteorite | if he didn't come here to resolve it, it makes me wonder if he came here just to bash on about it |
| 02:26.45 | a_meteorite | just cause he was "bored" |
| 02:26.54 | brlcad | well, that's not entirely true -- just about anything bzflag is relevant (doesn't mean it's okay, but it is relevant) |
| 02:27.04 | brlcad | maybe he did, maybe he didn't |
| 02:27.06 | a_meteorite | then it's not okay :) |
| 02:28.45 | brlcad | either way, it's not your right in here to antagonize him or anyone else regardless of how you feel about it |
| 02:28.52 | Winny | nn-main: you were banned for advertising your server on mine. |
| 02:29.05 | Winny | Ill remove the ban, but don't do it again, k? |
| 02:29.07 | a_meteorite | brlcad: with you saying that, i could apply your same argument |
| 02:29.16 | a_meteorite | "he never asked a question, just made a couple statements" |
| 02:29.21 | a_meteorite | I just made a couple statements, that's all |
| 02:29.40 | a_meteorite | so, yes, that would be my right by your own admission |
| 02:29.41 | whodaman- | nn-main, the reason of ban is usually stated when you try to join |
| 02:29.47 | brlcad | oh please, you directed your comments at him |
| 02:30.08 | a_meteorite | he directed his comments to bzflagr, I am a bzflagr admin. same thing. |
| 02:30.12 | brlcad | if anything he didn't even direct them at you, they were to 'winy' |
| 02:30.25 | a_meteorite | I'm a bzflagr admin, contesting of bans does concern me |
| 02:30.41 | brlcad | he didn't contest a ban, now did he |
| 02:31.02 | a_meteorite | that would be the logical reasoning for someone to come in this channel complaining about a ban |
| 02:31.07 | a_meteorite | unless he wanted to start a flamewar |
| 02:31.35 | Winny | nn-main: the ban has been removed. |
| 02:31.59 | whodaman- | Just keep in mind that advertising your server on others is frowned upon nn-main |
| 02:32.09 | Constitution | brlcad: ah, okay. I'm in the area, so thought I would see if you were close. Guess I'll try again when I'm in the area again. :) |
| 02:32.26 | a_meteorite | if it happens again, I'll personally see to it that you are banned. getting banned for the same offense is a good way to get you gone good (no more contesting after that) |
| 02:32.28 | brlcad | a_meteorite: which you promptly just then took the bait for by antagonizing him |
| 02:32.54 | a_meteorite | brlcad: please reword your sentence..? |
| 02:33.00 | a_meteorite | "which you promptly just then took" |
| 02:33.03 | a_meteorite | huh? |
| 02:33.26 | brlcad | like I said, I *only* care that you jumped on those two people, whatever their purpose, it was vague and not a personal attack |
| 02:33.35 | blast007 | a_meteorite: if you thought what nn said was flamebait, then you took the bait |
| 02:33.39 | brlcad | which you promptly took the bait for |
| 02:33.50 | brlcad | if his purpose was to start a flamewar as you said |
| 02:33.52 | a_meteorite | well, taking the bait is not a always a bad thing |
| 02:33.55 | hwilde | so i've got 2.0.10 straight from bzflag.org, and it still takes my tank 15seconds to burrow into the ground |
| 02:34.06 | hwilde | which means ppl just shoot me before I can get underground |
| 02:34.07 | a_meteorite | it may bring attention to something that would previously not be looked at |
| 02:34.44 | hwilde | it says my fps is 400-600 too |
| 02:34.51 | hwilde | i think it is this new graphics card |
| 02:34.55 | brlcad | well, you can keep your flamewars elsewhere, it's not appropriate here |
| 02:35.14 | a_meteorite | hwilde: try enabling power saving and do /localset fpsLimit 100 |
| 02:35.27 | hwilde | nVidia Corporation GeForce 8600 GTS |
| 02:35.30 | a_meteorite | brlcad: I think the person who starts the flamewar is the person who should be warned |
| 02:35.46 | brlcad | which is why I'm talking to you |
| 02:35.53 | brlcad | you're the one that started the personal attack |
| 02:35.55 | a_meteorite | sorry, I can't be the scapegoat |
| 02:36.00 | nn-main | whodaman-: Thanks i will keep that in mind |
| 02:36.09 | brlcad | twice |
| 02:36.16 | hwilde | a_meteorite, so how do I enable power saving ? |
| 02:36.20 | a_meteorite | I never did, I simply stated that his writing needs to improve |
| 02:36.26 | whodaman- | nn-main, it's not my job to tell you this, but please try and speak english |
| 02:36.27 | a_meteorite | hwilde: display options |
| 02:36.47 | brlcad | a_meteorite: as does your tact then too |
| 02:37.07 | a_meteorite | It is only my place to be concerned about my tact |
| 02:37.10 | a_meteorite | That's not your job |
| 02:37.30 | brlcad | of course it's not, but the channel behavior is |
| 02:37.34 | brlcad | and i'm saying you were out of line |
| 02:37.40 | brlcad | so you don't have to like it |
| 02:37.43 | brlcad | but there it is |
| 02:37.54 | a_meteorite | Which includes speaking improper english, flamebait, and irrelevant topic? |
| 02:38.06 | a_meteorite | oh, wait, I'm so sorry for correcting a much worser person! |
| 02:38.23 | hwilde | guys if I wasn't asking for your help I would have to point out that you are now the ones offtopic... |
| 02:38.26 | a_meteorite | I shall try to improve my tact before I melt from being improper |
| 02:38.27 | brlcad | includes not antagonizing people in the channel |
| 02:38.43 | hwilde | i did localset fpsLimit 100, it does not have any affect |
| 02:38.54 | a_meteorite | hwilde: /localset |
| 02:38.58 | hwilde | yeah that |
| 02:39.00 | a_meteorite | the / is important |
| 02:39.03 | hwilde | mmk |
| 02:39.08 | blast007 | hwilde: did you turn on the Power Saver option under Options > Display Settings ? |
| 02:39.10 | hwilde | why would it take 15s to burrow |
| 02:39.18 | brlcad | hwilde: channel rules are on-topic, unfortunately |
| 02:39.37 | blast007 | hwilde: high FPS can cause a lot of issues in 2.0.x |
| 02:39.42 | a_meteorite | oh, it takes 15 seconds for you to burrow? that could be a server option |
| 02:39.43 | blast007 | that should be fixed for 3.0.x |
| 02:39.46 | a_meteorite | but I know FPS that high can cause weird problems |
| 02:39.53 | blast007 | (2.99.x dev version) |
| 02:39.53 | hwilde | ugh that makes it incredibly choppy |
| 02:40.00 | a_meteorite | 100, not 10? |
| 02:40.02 | *** part/#bzflag nn-main (n=nn@74.94.43.196) |
| 02:40.18 | a_meteorite | 100 should not be choppy, your eye can't tell after like 60-80 :) |
| 02:40.19 | hwilde | lol met i wish it was just a typo :) |
| 02:41.00 | hwilde | the display looks fine to me, but bu takes forever |
| 02:41.01 | a_meteorite | no clue, check your drivers |
| 02:41.10 | a_meteorite | is this windows or linux? |
| 02:41.14 | blast007 | linux |
| 02:41.18 | hwilde | linux |
| 02:41.22 | hwilde | my drivers are up to spec |
| 02:41.26 | hwilde | it is blazing fast |
| 02:41.27 | a_meteorite | did you install the nv drivers? |
| 02:41.30 | a_meteorite | mmk |
| 02:41.31 | hwilde | rest of the game is hardcore |
| 02:41.40 | hwilde | but badgerking says my gms turn too fast |
| 02:41.51 | a_meteorite | I think that's the high FPS |
| 02:41.52 | hwilde | and burrow literally takes 15s so ppl just shoot me before i can dig in |
| 02:42.02 | hwilde | you mean his slow fps |
| 02:42.13 | blast007 | can you turn on vsync? |
| 02:42.15 | a_meteorite | your fast FPS |
| 02:42.27 | hwilde | lol |
| 02:42.28 | a_meteorite | you said your FPS was 400-600? |
| 02:42.38 | hwilde | that's what it says when I press T but how is that even possible |
| 02:42.39 | blast007 | as I said, high FPS causes issues |
| 02:42.46 | blast007 | hwilde: that's more than possible |
| 02:42.53 | blast007 | I can get over 1300FPS on my gaming box |
| 02:42.57 | hwilde | I just got this 512MB nVidia Corporation GeForce 8600 GTS |
| 02:43.11 | hwilde | it is not like this on my old comptuer or my laptop |
| 02:43.41 | blast007 | try turning on vsync if you can |
| 02:43.51 | hwilde | so shoudl i submit a bug report to bzflag, ubuntu, or nvidia |
| 02:43.56 | blast007 | is there a control panel for the nvidia drivers on linux? |
| 02:44.03 | hwilde | yeah nvidia-settings |
| 02:44.07 | a_meteorite | bzflag does not need a lot of power, so when you throw that at it, FPS goes really high and weird things happen |
| 02:44.12 | blast007 | turn on vsync |
| 02:44.20 | blast007 | that'll limit the FPS to your refresh rate |
| 02:44.36 | a_meteorite | yup, best option |
| 02:44.49 | hwilde | "Sync to VBlank" ? |
| 02:45.04 | blast007 | I guess |
| 02:45.48 | hwilde | nah that is not the same |
| 02:45.53 | hwilde | therei s no vsync option that i see |
| 02:46.20 | hwilde | i think now that i compiled it here it is even faster |
| 02:47.03 | hwilde | burrow is boring anyways |
| 02:47.41 | a_meteorite | interesting that fpsLimit has no effect, you very sure you turned on power saver in display options? |
| 02:47.47 | hwilde | oh it has effect |
| 02:47.50 | hwilde | it is choppy |
| 02:47.54 | a_meteorite | too weird |
| 02:47.55 | hwilde | like painful to look at |
| 02:47.59 | blast007 | having too high of an FPS will probably just get you banned |
| 02:48.05 | a_meteorite | what happens if it's 200 instead of 100? |
| 02:48.13 | blast007 | even 200 might have issues |
| 02:48.20 | hwilde | i dont understand how the client has that much control over the server |
| 02:48.27 | a_meteorite | I know, but for it to be choppy at 100.. |
| 02:48.30 | hwilde | the gm should still move through the server at same speed |
| 02:48.43 | a_meteorite | hwilde: the server does not calculate shot positions, the client does |
| 02:48.50 | a_meteorite | every frame the client does calculations, iirc |
| 02:49.03 | a_meteorite | so when it's that much FPS, it's getting weird with the calcualations |
| 02:49.06 | hwilde | client should send initial position and velocity then server should send it to the enemy |
| 02:49.12 | a_meteorite | but it doesn't |
| 02:49.32 | a_meteorite | that can't be changed until 3.0 (proto break), we want the server to be more authoritative |
| 02:49.35 | hwilde | so this game is all about hardware |
| 02:49.40 | hwilde | i knew it |
| 02:49.44 | a_meteorite | not only would it prevent many cheats, it would stop problems like this |
| 02:50.12 | hwilde | typically the server maintains the world representatio nand the clients just send deltas |
| 02:50.25 | hwilde | so after i shoot the gm it should go same speed for everybody |
| 02:50.36 | hwilde | even if my video card refreshes it faster |
| 02:50.50 | hwilde | i should burrow faster tho... that is the strange part |
| 02:51.01 | blast007 | not necessarily |
| 02:51.12 | a_meteorite | well, that's not how it's calculated |
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| 02:51.27 | blast007 | high FPS causes very small differences in time, and very small dt's can have precision issues |
| 02:51.29 | a_meteorite | client calculates every frame than says to the server the shot should be here |
| 02:51.40 | a_meteorite | right.. precision issues.. |
| 02:51.51 | blast007 | so in trunk we skip the motion updates until dt has reached a certain point |
| 02:52.03 | blast007 | so high FPS is fixed in trunk code |
| 02:52.06 | a_meteorite | nice |
| 02:52.16 | a_meteorite | blast007: is that 2.0 trunk or 3.0? |
| 02:52.28 | blast007 | 2.99.x (3.0.x) |
| 02:52.37 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 02:52.44 | blast007 | afaik |
| 02:52.53 | blast007 | let me check |
| 02:52.57 | a_meteorite | if it doesn't require proto break, they should have backported that to 2.0 before 2.0.10 was released |
| 02:53.01 | a_meteorite | too bad |
| 02:53.28 | bryjen | "all about hardware" ?? |
| 02:53.46 | hwilde | hey with fpsLimit 200 that got my burrow time down to 6 seconds! |
| 02:54.32 | hwilde | so I gues that version is not backwards compatible with server 2.0.9 ? |
| 02:54.55 | a_meteorite | no, all 2.0.x is backwards compatible and forward compatible |
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| 02:55.12 | hwilde | but if I get client 2.99x |
| 02:55.46 | blast007 | 2.99.x is not compatible |
| 02:55.52 | hwilde | blast! |
| 02:56.08 | blast007 | the 99 is special |
| 02:56.17 | hwilde | bryjen, its all about hardware man... fastest computer and connection win |
| 02:56.21 | blast007 | meaning it is a development version for the next version |
| 02:56.25 | hwilde | yeah i know this |
| 02:56.30 | hwilde | thats why i want it |
| 02:56.49 | hwilde | it will probably alleviate my fps issues |
| 02:56.53 | hwilde | or atleast the perception to the enemy |
| 02:56.55 | bryjen | no. as you've noticed, having too fast a video card is actually bad. |
| 02:57.09 | hwilde | well just for burrow. for gm it is deadly |
| 02:57.25 | hwilde | nobody can escape |
| 02:57.31 | bryjen | that's a bug |
| 02:57.32 | blast007 | hwilde: again, you'll get banned for that client behavior ;) |
| 02:57.48 | a_meteorite | people will think you are cheating |
| 02:57.50 | hwilde | it's not my fault tho im trying to fix it here |
| 02:57.58 | hwilde | why do u think i am here asking how to fix it |
| 02:58.01 | hwilde | you guys need to get our more |
| 02:58.21 | a_meteorite | uh, just saying |
| 02:58.45 | hwilde | but it means people can just get faster computers and have an advantage |
| 02:58.46 | a_meteorite | I can get you unbanned at some servers, but I'd leave until we figure a way to make it stop |
| 02:58.56 | bryjen | with reasonable lag (<200ms) and frame-rate (30-100fps) everyone should get similar results, no advantage. the simulation break down after fps gets too high |
| 02:59.13 | a_meteorite | thank you bryjen |
| 02:59.47 | hwilde | but that is a client-server programming issue, not my fault for buying a new video card |
| 02:59.55 | hwilde | i just want to know how to fix it |
| 03:00.05 | blast007 | hwilde: FPS limit |
| 03:00.11 | blast007 | or vsync |
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| 03:01.02 | bryjen | it not really a client-server issue. its because the simulation is tied to the client's drawing. |
| 03:01.02 | blast007 | I'm actually trying to find where that fix was put in... |
| 03:01.24 | bryjen | could have the same issue at the server is the main loop executed too fast/slow |
| 03:01.24 | hwilde | even with fpsLimit it takes 6s to burrow - that is still a very long time |
| 03:01.42 | bryjen | s/is the/if the/ |
| 03:01.47 | hwilde | bryjen, fine then it is a conflict of world representations |
| 03:02.07 | hwilde | server should regulate the bullets mmmk |
| 03:02.50 | a_meteorite | but they don't |
| 03:02.55 | hwilde | If I crank up my computer I can shoot people faster... |
| 03:03.04 | a_meteorite | then you get banned ;) |
| 03:03.09 | blast007 | yup |
| 03:03.10 | hwilde | but this is not my fault it is the program |
| 03:03.15 | blast007 | doesn't matter |
| 03:03.19 | a_meteorite | admins don't know or don't care |
| 03:03.26 | blast007 | you have the ability to fix it |
| 03:03.31 | a_meteorite | you have an edge over everyone else that is not intended behavior |
| 03:03.44 | a_meteorite | whether or not it is your fault doesn't matter |
| 03:03.45 | hwilde | I have a burrow handicap |
| 03:03.45 | blast007 | technically it's exploting a bug |
| 03:03.54 | hwilde | it causes me to not be able to burrow |
| 03:03.59 | blast007 | so? |
| 03:04.09 | hwilde | it gives the enemy unfair advantage because they can shoot me before I get underground |
| 03:04.10 | blast007 | if I make my tank move slower, but unable to die, it doesn't even out |
| 03:04.24 | blast007 | your FPS is too high |
| 03:04.29 | blast007 | make your FPS lower |
| 03:04.37 | blast007 | that's the fix for the time being |
| 03:04.43 | hwilde | that only got it down from 15s to 6s |
| 03:06.41 | a_meteorite | part of it may be a server setting, or your problem isn't totally fixed |
| 03:06.52 | a_meteorite | (I do recall there being some burrow settings one can make whacky) |
| 03:06.58 | a_meteorite | hwilde: is this at badgerking's? |
| 03:11.29 | hwilde | a_meteorite, yeah come play |
| 03:11.48 | hwilde | bk is there too |
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| 03:25.45 | hwilde | thnx that is good |
| 03:25.59 | hwilde | can i hardcode this so i dont have to type /localset everytime i play |
| 03:26.11 | blast007 | it's supposed to save |
| 03:26.27 | blast007 | maybe do a 'Save Settings' in the main menu after you set it |
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| 03:35.41 | hwilde | he said config.cfg would have it |
| 03:35.59 | hwilde | if i set to 60 fps and energy saver it is kind of normal |
| 03:42.38 | whodaman- | blast007, http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=11904 |
| 03:47.15 | Macrosoft | whodaman-: whats wrong with it? |
| 03:47.45 | a_meteorite | you missed it then |
| 03:48.32 | blast007 | I'm too fast |
| 03:49.04 | whodaman- | Right blast007 |
| 03:49.32 | whodaman- | and that post didn't look like he cared about the PM |
| 03:49.38 | Macrosoft | oh, had to take a trip to neighboring city |
| 03:50.08 | Macrosoft | whodaman-: what was wrong with it before? |
| 03:50.24 | Macrosoft | ...posted in wrong forum or something? |
| 03:52.03 | a_meteorite | Macrosoft: silver surfer being critical again |
| 03:52.32 | whodaman- | He wasn't being very helpful or constructive with any of his posts, made a bunch of unnecessary ones, and isn't typing english sentences either |
| 03:52.49 | a_meteorite | kinda like earlier |
| 03:53.03 | Macrosoft | oh, lately ive just been clicking "mark forum read" when i get to posts from the kiddies |
| 03:55.13 | a_meteorite | we need that phpbb mod that lets you ignore certain people |
| 03:55.19 | a_meteorite | I'd so use that |
| 03:56.19 | tannerld_ | just don't read it |
| 03:56.37 | Macrosoft | a_meteorite: might be more useful to have a "ignore players that registered after this date" filter. i'd be able to filter all the kiddies that have been springing up lately |
| 03:57.07 | whodaman- | Macrosoft, there are mature people |
| 03:57.21 | whodaman- | not every new player = some kiddie n00b |
| 03:57.32 | Macrosoft | whodaman-: then have a whitelist as well |
| 03:57.46 | whodaman- | pfft |
| 03:57.55 | Macrosoft | counter-pfft |
| 03:57.56 | whodaman- | [04:56] <tannerld_> just don't read it |
| 03:58.24 | a_meteorite | I'd rather it not even be in my face |
| 03:59.02 | tannerld_ | sounds like a personal problem |
| 03:59.27 | AAA_Awright | Someone check youtube.com, check I am not going crazy |
| 03:59.37 | AAA_Awright | Seems to be down |
| 03:59.52 | Macrosoft | AAA_Awright: could be both :P |
| 03:59.59 | AAA_Awright | heh |
| 04:00.14 | Macrosoft | AAA_Awright: yeah, i cant connect either |
| 04:00.20 | a_meteorite | tannerld: then obviously you have not read his posts |
| 04:00.27 | a_meteorite | and obviously they would not be deleted :) |
| 04:00.37 | tannerld_ | his = ? |
| 04:00.48 | a_meteorite | silver surfer and friends |
| 04:01.17 | Macrosoft | AAA_Awright: im connecting, but they arent responding. server may just be under haevy load |
| 04:01.53 | Macrosoft | anyone see any notices on youtube about a scheduled maintenence or downtime? |
| 04:04.57 | Macrosoft | heh, from the forums "Use the 'esc' arrow keys". i dont have any escape arrow keys on my keyboard, i feel cheated :P |
| 04:05.35 | Macrosoft | most people i know only have one escape key |
| 04:11.52 | Macrosoft | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:16.09 | Constitution | Macrosoft: doesn't work for unregistered players. |
| 04:20.00 | hwilde | just a game u know :) |
| 04:20.16 | Macrosoft | Constitution: how many unregistered players do you think know that though ;) |
| 04:20.25 | hwilde | Con come play so i can kill you |
| 04:20.42 | hwilde | my client is on performance enhancing fps |
| 04:20.54 | hwilde | got it from barry bonds |
| 04:22.02 | Macrosoft | Constitution: and if they do try to avoid it, then i step it up to an IP ban |
| 04:45.39 | Macrosoft | meh, no zombies yet, have to rebuild server |
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| 05:12.48 | Macrosoft | ok, zombie server is up |
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| 14:02.56 | delusional | ~shearing |
| 14:03.44 | delusional | "a deformation of an object in which parallel planes remain parallel but are shifted in a direction parallel to themselves." |
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| 15:23.57 | Winny | ~lart me |
| 15:23.57 | ibot | shoves a crumpet down winny's throat, happy now?! Huh? Want some JAM with that? |
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| 18:00.18 | Winny | haha, look what I just found in my closet |
| 18:00.18 | Winny | forgot about this... http://bzfusion.net/kyle/bzflag/tank.jpg |
| 18:03.32 | whodaman- | hehe, nice |
| 18:05.14 | JeffM | is that based on the icon? |
| 18:05.26 | Winny | sorta |
| 18:07.19 | Winny | do I need to distribute the cardboard under a GPL lisence or something? :p |
| 18:09.47 | JeffM | naw |
| 18:09.51 | JeffM | just curious |
| 18:10.05 | JeffM | I did a 3d model of the icon as well |
| 18:10.23 | Winny | should get it printed out on one of those 3d printers ;) |
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| 18:32.15 | sigonasr2 | Any way to prevent being kicked from teamkilling? |
| 18:33.39 | ruskie | yeah... don't teamkill :) |
| 18:33.51 | JeffM | the server owner can change the setings for it |
| 18:33.52 | whodaman- | I thought #-tkkr would do that? |
| 18:33.54 | JeffM | or yeah, don't TK ;) |
| 18:34.04 | sigonasr2 | OK, I am the server owner... |
| 18:34.25 | sigonasr2 | I can change what the settings are for the map, so what would I do? |
| 18:34.28 | JeffM | you can change the number of kicks |
| 18:34.37 | JeffM | manpage ;) |
| 18:34.53 | sigonasr2 | oi, has to be all complicated... |
| 18:35.00 | JeffM | not really |
| 18:35.09 | JeffM | as a server owner you should be fammilair with the docs |
| 18:35.18 | JeffM | it's even on the wiki |
| 18:35.40 | JeffM | and whodaman- gave you the hint to get you in the right place |
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| 18:36.00 | sigonasr2 | mmhmm...but it doesn't help. I've got -tk and -tkkr is all I see |
| 18:36.02 | Winny | -tkkr 30, for example, says kick when the Kills to Team kill ratio is higher then 30 |
| 18:36.14 | Winny | -tk makes you NOT die if you Tk -- mostly used in leagues. |
| 18:36.33 | Winny | removing -tkkr x stops the kickage. |
| 18:36.34 | whodaman- | Or in some other CTF maps that need it |
| 18:36.54 | JeffM | just like the page says ;) |
| 18:36.55 | whodaman- | so, #-tkkr |
| 18:37.00 | whodaman- | yay |
| 18:37.10 | JeffM | sigonasr2: let me guess you just grabed a default config and don't know what it does |
| 18:37.36 | whodaman- | He's been hosting for couple of months now. |
| 18:37.49 | JeffM | question still stands |
| 18:37.57 | sigonasr2 | Well, I tried #-tkkr and still got kicked |
| 18:37.59 | whodaman- | heh |
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| 18:38.34 | sigonasr2 | JeffM: I have a pretty good knowledge of what the different options can do |
| 18:38.41 | whodaman- | sigonasr2, make sure you updated the .conf on the server? |
| 18:39.15 | sigonasr2 | oh...The conf has a separate -tkkr on it... Thanks :) |
| 18:39.33 | JeffM | yep default config ;) |
| 18:39.54 | whodaman- | meh |
| 18:40.06 | sigonasr2 | well, it's the one I use for a mapchange server, so yeah, I guess... |
| 18:41.06 | sigonasr2 | JeffM: I'm smarter than you think, but dumb in the logic sense :) |
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| 18:41.19 | JeffM | never said you were dump |
| 18:41.21 | JeffM | dumb |
| 18:41.32 | sigonasr2 | eh, ok. |
| 18:41.34 | JeffM | just that you should read up a little, that is all |
| 18:42.21 | Saturos | menotume: ping |
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| 18:46.47 | blast007 | there is a default if -tkkr is left out |
| 18:47.30 | blast007 | sigonasr2: try reading the man page... it's fairly clear what that setting does |
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| 18:48.26 | Quol | this may be a really stupud question - but is there any way for the windows BZflag client to behave like the linux one - in the sense that I can have it windowed and in the background running and not minimize? anybody know |
| 18:48.28 | ultracool | what is the smallest the pupil size can me? and what is the largest? do i stop energy coming out of my eyes with the pupil size?, like a dot?? can i make my pupil just size of a . on this screen? am i guilty of of all the fire and burning and suffering because my unconscious control extraction of my pupil size? thank you |
| 18:49.40 | whodaman- | ultracool, that's off-topic and doesn't really belong in here... |
| 18:50.43 | JeffM | Quol: add set Win32NoMin 1 to your config |
| 18:50.59 | Quol | it's that easy? |
| 18:51.02 | Quol | wow - lol |
| 18:51.04 | Quol | thanks |
| 18:51.08 | JeffM | Quol: yeah I added it for debuging |
| 18:51.20 | JeffM | sucks to have it minimise every time you loose focus |
| 18:51.29 | Quol | indeed - I hate that |
| 18:51.45 | Quol | especially when I am entering matches etc.. and have to leave bz to do something |
| 18:51.48 | Quol | thanks |
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| 18:54.06 | Quol | does it work on 2.0.10 - or do I need a newer/svn version? |
| 18:54.14 | Quol | added it, doesn't seem to work |
| 18:54.24 | JeffM | it was added during .9 so you shoudl have it |
| 18:54.30 | JeffM | there isn't much after .10 |
| 18:54.58 | Quol | ohh - bzflag killed it - hmm - let me try again |
| 18:55.25 | *** part/#bzflag Gambit (i=ViRuS@wikimedia/Cometstyles) |
| 18:55.30 | Quol | oh never mind - I am stupid |
| 18:55.39 | Quol | I have it set to write the config on exit :) |
| 18:55.50 | Quol | it overwrote it when I closed bzflag - duh |
| 18:57.02 | Quol | is it just a windows thing that sound stops also? |
| 18:57.12 | Quol | when in the background? |
| 19:06.17 | brlcad | howdy Quol |
| 19:12.45 | Quol | hey brlcad - how are ya |
| 19:12.51 | brlcad | pretty good |
| 19:12.56 | Quol | match...brb |
| 19:13.01 | whodaman- | heh |
| 19:13.42 | Winny | the Forest Farts |
| 19:13.48 | brlcad | Quol: fwiw, the guy doing research at Indiana University is using your stuff for his work :) |
| 19:15.53 | JeffM | yeah sound is disabled |
| 19:15.57 | JeffM | it is the windows "way" |
| 19:39.15 | Quol | brlcad, oooh - really |
| 19:39.18 | Quol | neat |
| 19:39.35 | Quol | JeffM, thanks - at least I can have it windowed :) |
| 20:14.08 | Winny | are there any known issues with BZFlag on a 64bit intel core 2 quad? |
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| 20:31.41 | JeffM | Winny: none other then the normal dual core issues |
| 20:31.57 | a_meteorite | JeffM: haven't those been fixed? |
| 20:32.09 | JeffM | in .10 |
| 20:32.19 | JeffM | it has a timer that works better with multi-core |
| 20:33.52 | JeffM | why? |
| 20:35.11 | a_meteorite | Winny is going to be building a new system soon (so will I) |
| 20:35.40 | JeffM | what do you do that is so multithread intensive to warrant 4 cores? |
| 20:35.41 | Winny | yeah.. probably a core 2 quad, not sure If Ill run it in 64 or 32 bit mode |
| 20:35.59 | Winny | JeffM: lots of blender stuff, and probably crysis. |
| 20:36.13 | JeffM | crysis will get more benifit out of a faster dual core |
| 20:36.29 | JeffM | blender is a toss up |
| 20:38.34 | JeffM | support and works best with != the same thing |
| 20:38.43 | JeffM | not all game operations can be split evenly |
| 20:39.12 | JeffM | I'm sure it throws of more then one thread, but I'm also sure that each of those does not have the same computational load |
| 20:39.24 | JeffM | the rendering thread is going to chew more CPU then the network or sim thread |
| 20:39.43 | JeffM | so in that case, you may get MORE speed by spending the extra money on 2 faster cores |
| 20:39.59 | JeffM | so that the high CPU threads can get more done in the same time |
| 20:40.00 | Winny | could always OC the quad ;) |
| 20:40.15 | JeffM | you can always OC the faster dual core ;) |
| 20:40.33 | JeffM | I'm just sayin look into it |
| 20:40.34 | Winny | true :p |
| 20:40.42 | JeffM | check the reviews |
| 20:40.51 | JeffM | same thing happend when dual cores came out |
| 20:41.08 | a_meteorite | basically it comes down to... if you're using 3-4 threads, quad is good |
| 20:41.19 | a_meteorite | maybe in gaming you won't, but in other multitasking you may |
| 20:41.19 | JeffM | unless the app is writen to fully maximise all cores, it may be better on faster clocked CPUs with less cores |
| 20:41.36 | JeffM | a_meteorite: only if those 3-4 threads all need to max out a core |
| 20:41.45 | a_meteorite | that is true |
| 20:41.47 | JeffM | you are always using a bunch of threads |
| 20:41.54 | JeffM | but if they are low use things, then it's a waste |
| 20:42.14 | JeffM | your anit-virus thread dosn't need a full dedicated core ;) |
| 20:42.24 | Winny | unless its norton |
| 20:42.26 | Winny | ;P |
| 20:42.36 | JeffM | if we were to have BZ do a thread for each sub system |
| 20:42.42 | JeffM | and rendering went out to one core |
| 20:42.56 | JeffM | all the others would be done on the other core way before the frame was done on the first core |
| 20:43.26 | JeffM | the only way to maximise games on 3+ cores is to make your rendering system be multi-threaded itself |
| 20:43.40 | JeffM | and that is not trivial to do when using 3d hardware |
| 20:44.55 | JeffM | you guys sudenly come into lots of money or somthing? |
| 20:46.34 | Winny | We're selling drugs! ... |
| 20:46.39 | Winny | not. |
| 20:46.55 | JeffM | cus I assume your looking at the Q6600 |
| 20:47.00 | JeffM | 2.4gig |
| 20:47.02 | Winny | indeed |
| 20:47.08 | JeffM | seems to retail for about 280 |
| 20:47.20 | Winny | can probably be OC'ed to 2.8, I'd assume |
| 20:47.44 | JeffM | same price you can get the 3.0 gig e6850 |
| 20:48.05 | JeffM | still faster then your overclock at standard speeds ;) |
| 20:48.31 | JeffM | and remember in blender, the ONLY thing more cores will speed up is rendering |
| 20:48.33 | JeffM | not modeling |
| 20:48.51 | Winny | indeed |
| 20:49.15 | a_meteorite | I do have a job |
| 20:49.18 | JeffM | usualy the best way to speed up rendering is not by making a monlithic multi core beast |
| 20:49.27 | JeffM | but by geting a bunch of networked cheap hardware |
| 20:49.38 | JeffM | throw 8 or 16 cheap cores at it |
| 20:50.35 | JeffM | sigonasr2: where did you get your info about the phoenix plug-in? |
| 20:50.40 | spldart | I've always wondered how hard a small cluster like that would be to set up |
| 20:50.46 | JeffM | not too bad |
| 20:50.58 | JeffM | get a bunch of cheap pentium Ds |
| 20:51.05 | JeffM | Winny: how much ram you looking at geting? |
| 20:51.50 | Winny | Not 100% sure yet... not sure if I should run the system on 32 or 64bit |
| 20:52.09 | Winny | if I do 32bit, 2gb. If its 64, 4gb |
| 20:52.10 | whodaman- | JeffM, he probably got it from Constitution as he's using a SSH account on fairserve.net |
| 20:52.30 | JeffM | Winny: windows or linux? |
| 20:53.01 | JeffM | and you'll run out of ram before you run out of cores on blender ;) |
| 20:53.18 | a_meteorite | 4GB, ftw |
| 20:53.44 | JeffM | if you are doing linux, there is no reason to not go 64bit, everytyhing you run should be fine |
| 20:53.47 | Winny | JeffM: vista |
| 20:53.51 | JeffM | ahh |
| 20:53.55 | JeffM | I'm sorry |
| 20:54.00 | JeffM | I don't recomend it |
| 20:54.11 | Winny | vista, or 64? :p |
| 20:54.11 | JeffM | driver support is "fun" |
| 20:54.14 | JeffM | vista |
| 20:54.17 | a_meteorite | Vista 64-bit has a lot of driver weirdness |
| 20:54.19 | JeffM | I run 64 bit XP at work |
| 20:54.21 | a_meteorite | Well, Vista in general.. |
| 20:54.23 | JeffM | and it runs acceptably wel |
| 20:54.31 | whodaman- | l |
| 20:54.33 | JeffM | 32bit vista ran acceptably wel |
| 20:54.41 | JeffM | 64 bit vista has not run acceptabaly well at work |
| 20:54.59 | JeffM | the only thing I have had a problem with on 64 bit XP is that iTunes won't rip. |
| 20:55.44 | Winny | Vista 64 is worse then XP 64? fun |
| 20:55.50 | JeffM | yes |
| 20:55.53 | JeffM | it's newer |
| 20:55.57 | JeffM | so there is less support |
| 20:57.04 | Winny | Do you think in ~3-6 months 64bit vista would probably supported at a more acceptable level? |
| 20:57.52 | JeffM | doubtfully |
| 20:57.59 | a_meteorite | Vista SP1 is coming out Q1, right? |
| 20:58.00 | JeffM | is there anything vista has that you NEED? |
| 20:58.59 | Winny | nothing that I *need*, but it does have quite a few features that are much improved over XP |
| 20:59.08 | JeffM | like? |
| 20:59.27 | whodaman- | The UI ? |
| 20:59.42 | Winny | Mutli-threaded explorer, better security (sorta), Aero does indeed look nice, etc... |
| 20:59.42 | JeffM | I can't say it's 'improved' |
| 20:59.53 | JeffM | well then there goes most of your ram ;) |
| 21:00.02 | JeffM | I turned aero glass off |
| 21:00.06 | JeffM | it got anoying |
| 21:00.20 | JeffM | why do I need to wait for a dialog to graphicaly zoom in |
| 21:00.31 | Winny | 'cause its purdy ;) |
| 21:00.33 | JeffM | no mater what you can get 4 gigs of ram |
| 21:00.41 | JeffM | even if you run 32bit |
| 21:00.48 | JeffM | just means you get about 3.5 gigs of it |
| 21:00.52 | JeffM | and tha'ts better then 2 |
| 21:01.14 | Winny | two 8800Gt's (totals 1gb) of RAM, so that means only 3gb of system RAM is avaiable, and there goes dual channel |
| 21:01.27 | JeffM | the system still dual channels it |
| 21:01.38 | Winny | oh.. |
| 21:01.40 | JeffM | the Dual channel happens at the mobo level, NOT the OS level |
| 21:01.58 | JeffM | the memory controller dosn't care what OS your using |
| 21:02.13 | JeffM | and good luck with the SLI |
| 21:02.53 | Winny | not sure if SLI is even worth it, actually |
| 21:03.06 | JeffM | it was more trouble then it was worth for me |
| 21:03.16 | JeffM | it does not speed up all things |
| 21:03.44 | JeffM | it will not speed up blender, or other apps |
| 21:04.09 | Winny | it should help in game rendering, no? |
| 21:04.25 | JeffM | if the game is writen to take advantage of it |
| 21:04.36 | JeffM | bzflag will not use it |
| 21:04.48 | JeffM | you have to do things a very specific way to get speed out of SLI |
| 21:05.40 | Winny | hmm, ok |
| 21:05.51 | Winny | so probably better to get one single, faster card |
| 21:05.57 | JeffM | crossfire is a techincaly better system for general rendering speedups |
| 21:06.13 | JeffM | but all of them have issues with some apps |
| 21:06.21 | JeffM | there were games where I'd have to turn it off |
| 21:06.30 | JeffM | there were games where I had to pull a card, etc.. |
| 21:07.15 | JeffM | the GT is an awesome card |
| 21:07.18 | JeffM | there isn't much faster |
| 21:07.31 | JeffM | not by leaps and bounds |
| 21:07.45 | JeffM | sure you can spend 2-3x the money for a 5-10% increase |
| 21:08.25 | Winny | Ouch... I thought it was closer to 50 >_ |
| 21:08.37 | JeffM | for a GTX |
| 21:08.44 | JeffM | naw, its' the same basic chip that's in the GT |
| 21:08.53 | JeffM | it's just clocked a little higher |
| 21:08.56 | JeffM | and has a bit more ram |
| 21:14.03 | Winny | ok.. thanks for the info |
| 21:16.49 | whodaman- | Winny, how well does BZFlag run on your macbook? |
| 21:16.53 | whodaman- | with high settings |
| 21:17.02 | Winny | whodaman-: steady 50+ FPS |
| 21:17.07 | Winny | lemme check on missile war, one sec |
| 21:17.10 | whodaman- | OK |
| 21:17.15 | whodaman- | but it's not jerky ? |
| 21:17.37 | Winny | getting 70 FPS right now on missile war |
| 21:17.46 | Winny | and thats on the OLD macbook video chipset |
| 21:17.53 | whodaman- | Right, OK |
| 21:18.07 | Winny | this is a core duo macbook, not a core 2 duo, so I imagine the performace might be even better |
| 21:18.20 | whodaman- | cool |
| 21:18.38 | Winny | yeah, seems to averaging at about 80 |
| 21:18.46 | whodaman- | Very nice... |
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| 21:51.19 | zee435 | kkkkkkkkkkkkkkk |
| 21:51.33 | zee435 | .hj;jkjhkhl |
| 21:51.44 | zee435 | i |
| 21:51.49 | zee435 | hi |
| 21:52.16 | Winny | wtf was that dude? If you wanna be constructive don't spam |
| 21:52.48 | whodaman- | Winny, NOW look what you've done, he left! |
| 21:52.58 | DTRemenak|RDP | "hi" would have worked just fine there... |
| 21:53.10 | whodaman- | Indeed |
| 21:53.19 | Winny | "hi" from which one of us....? |
| 21:53.24 | whodaman- | him |
| 21:53.28 | whodaman- | or you |
| 21:53.50 | DTRemenak | you, was what I was thinking |
| 21:53.57 | Winny | .... |
| 21:54.01 | DTRemenak | he did manage to finally type hi, the least you could have done is responded |
| 21:54.25 | Winny | after randomly spamming us? heh.. |
| 21:54.31 | DTRemenak | think about it from his perspective. he clicks a link, types a couple nonsense lines to see if it works, sees that it does, and says hi. |
| 21:54.40 | a_meteorite | yawn, another sunday |
| 21:54.42 | DTRemenak | and instead of seeing "hi" he sees "wtf dude" |
| 21:54.53 | DTRemenak | c'mon, be polite to people, even if they aren't polite to you |
| 21:55.15 | Winny | DTRemenak: a sane person would usually type "test"(or something), in my opinion. |
| 21:55.37 | DTRemenak | so you judge him to be insane, based on a line of chat? seems like someone's leaping to conclusions |
| 21:55.58 | Winny | Never said he was insane |
| 21:56.00 | DTRemenak | random people of the street don't know irc etiquette, and probably don't even realize they're on irc |
| 21:56.12 | DTRemenak | they need to be informed, but GENTLY |
| 21:57.35 | DTRemenak | consider the difference in tone between "wtf was that dude? If you wanna be constructive don't spam" and "hi. for future reference, please don't type nonsense to test the connection." |
| 21:58.02 | Winny | heh |
| 21:58.24 | DTRemenak | wikipedia has a few good pages on the subject. try "Assume Good Faith" and "Civility"; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:AGF and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:CIVIL |
| 21:59.24 | DTRemenak | also try to employ hanlon's razor: never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. accusing people of being spammers is assuming malice. |
| 22:00.11 | DTRemenak | sorry if it sounds like I'm going off on you, it's just something I've noticed in this channel recently (from multiple people) |
| 22:00.22 | Winny | oh.. |
| 22:00.59 | DTRemenak | yours was just the latest, and I happened to be here :) |
| 22:01.17 | whodaman- | Well, when you're dealing with people on the forums that just won't accept any help or guidance it rubs off here a bit IMO |
| 22:02.01 | DTRemenak | don't assume that all people are like that though. there are some, sure (and they deserve whatever treatment they get) |
| 22:02.21 | DTRemenak | but when someone joins from one of the webirc's without a name, you can't just assume they're "that bastard from the forums" :) |
| 22:03.09 | whodaman- | DTRemenak, true, I wasn't saying it was a good thing |
| 22:03.13 | whodaman- | just tends to happen |
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