IRC log for #bzflag on 20071214

`00:00.44`	`*** join/#bzflag Daveman (n=dave@pool-141-150-15-124.mad.east.verizon.net)`
`00:26.49`	`*** join/#bzflag nn-main (n=nn@74.94.43.196)`
`00:27.36`	`nn-main`	`hi winy i just saw you visit my server :) It has enofugh bandwith now to substain a high usage server like that :)`
`00:28.06`	`Winny`	`You moved off of comcast?`
`00:39.54`	`Macrosoft`	`enofugh?!`
`00:47.14`	`Macrosoft`	`Winny: more details http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=11926`
`00:47.17`	`Macrosoft`	`:P`
`01:08.39`	`*** join/#bzflag AAA_Awright (n=AAA_awri@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`01:28.14`	`*** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@CPE-75-81-248-105.we.res.rr.com)`
`01:28.14`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ`
`01:31.46`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16283 10/trunk/bzflag/ (2 files in 2 dirs): use realloc 'cause it's better than always freeing and mallocing`
`01:37.21`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r16284 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/BufferedNetworkMessage.cxx: right math helps too`
`01:45.36`	`F687s`	`nn: do you know about bzlinker?`
`01:53.48`	`blast007`	`F687s: what about bzlinker?`
`01:58.29`	`nn-main`	`no i dont know about it`
`01:59.00`	`nn-main`	`Winny: do you mind if i let my arm print out on its lcd the killings that happen on missle war`
`01:59.19`	`Winny`	`as long as it doesn't talk on the server, sure`
`01:59.41`	`nn-main`	`i wont`
`01:59.45`	`Winny`	`k`
`01:59.56`	`nn-main`	`user name is arm-lcdlogger`
`02:00.35`	`Winny`	`k`
`02:01.12`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03bryjen * r16285 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/BufferedNetworkMessage.cxx: filename case`
`02:01.13`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03bryjen * r16286 10/trunk/bzflag/include/BufferedNetworkMessage.h: classy friends`
`02:01.36`	`F687s`	`nn-main: ok, just wondering`
`02:01.58`	`F687s`	`I'm thinking bzlinker is some concoction by laserball2`
`02:02.08`	`F687s`	`it allows two servers to talk to each other.`
`02:02.14`	`bryjen`	`hmm, lotsa unused parameters, quite stubby`
`02:02.36`	`L4m3r`	`F687s: OK, and this accomplishes what exactly?`
`02:03.07`	`F687s`	`not sure, I just know that one of the endpoints was deployed on my server.`
`02:03.21`	`blast007`	`http://sourceforge.net/projects/bzlinker`
`02:03.47`	`L4m3r`	`ah, just a bot`
`02:03.55`	`L4m3r`	`how nasty`
`02:03.57`	`blast007`	`seems like a modified bzadmin client`
`02:04.02`	`blast007`	`all it has it 3 files in the tar`
`02:04.04`	`L4m3r`	`probably`
`02:04.05`	`blast007`	`and they're for bzadmin`
`02:04.16`	`nn-main`	`nlol`
`02:04.19`	`nn-main`	`lol`
`02:04.29`	`blast007`	`bzadmin.cxx, BZAdminClient.cxx, and BZAdminClient.h (and the COPYING file)`
`02:04.40`	`L4m3r`	`gross... especially since a server op doesn't need to consent before it's stuck on his server...`
`02:05.52`	`blast007`	`Macrosoft: it links chat between two servers`
`02:06.04`	`Macrosoft`	`blast007: how is that bad`
`02:06.08`	`F687s`	`well, a poll to set a server variable on one server ended up doing the same thing on the other server.`
`02:06.13`	`blast007`	`heh...`
`02:06.21`	`F687s`	`also, the bot on my server didn't have admin permissions`
`02:06.33`	`blast007`	`wait... it couldn't launch a poll that way`
`02:06.49`	`Winny`	`L4m3r: server ops can remove whatever they want from their server, right?`
`02:06.50`	`blast007`	`it just transmitted what the other server said and put it on your server`
`02:06.51`	`Macrosoft`	`F687s: oh, it sends all chat to the other server, i thought it had to be /msg' ed`
`02:06.58`	`F687s`	`yeah`
`02:07.09`	`Macrosoft`	`F687s: that sucks`
`02:07.22`	`blast007`	`so no, it didn't start a poll on your server`
`02:07.39`	`Macrosoft`	`blast007: its trying to take over ;)`
`02:07.47`	`Winny`	`mm.. CSI is on`
`02:07.48`	`Winny`	`bbl`
`02:07.48`	`nn-main`	`lol`
`02:08.30`	`F687s`	`kinda scary if you don't know about it, I thought the Pythonian curse had come upon me :-)`
`02:20.41`	`nn-main`	`F687s: there changing settings on the f687 map`
`02:20.47`	`nn-main`	`just to worn you`
`02:20.56`	`nn-main`	`there doing it by pool`
`02:21.47`	`F687s`	`changing settings?`
`02:21.53`	`*** join/#bzflag LeGeeko (n=jonathan@usrw-60.mw.kconline.com)`
`02:21.54`	`blast007`	`I never give poll set permissions to users :P`
`02:22.00`	`blast007`	`they'd just abuse it`
`02:22.18`	`LeGeeko`	`that they would`
`02:22.44`	`nn-main`	`i did n't i said they were scessfully making pools that were changing settings`
`02:23.17`	`LeGeeko`	`? how would that work?`
`02:23.26`	`F687s`	`yes, I was wondering which server they were doing it through (parsing the log file for now)`
`02:23.43`	`nn-main`	`appple map`
`02:30.16`	`F687s`	`interestingly, the one who was changing all the settings also asked to be an admin`
`02:30.45`	`blast007`	`get rid of the ability for users (or really, anyone) to run poll set`
`02:31.25`	`LeGeeko`	`Just wondering... Does anyone know when the release of BZFlag 2.1.X is due?`
`02:31.47`	`LeGeeko`	`I mean, the official non-beta one`
`02:32.09`	`F687s`	`blast007: I don't really mind, it was just changing the sky and mirror color`
`02:32.41`	`F687s`	`luckily, when he asks again, I can pull out some tasty little excerpts from the log file ;-)`
`02:33.01`	`LeGeeko`	`Evil chuckle`
`02:33.33`	`L4m3r`	`LeGeeko: Never. :P`
`02:33.44`	`L4m3r`	`for many reasons`
`02:33.54`	`LeGeeko`	`:(`
`02:34.02`	`L4m3r`	`first, 2.1.x was never meant as a stable release. originally it would have been 2.2.`
`02:34.19`	`L4m3r`	`However, the versioning has been changed. 2.2 will now be BZFlag 3.0.`
`02:34.26`	`LeGeeko`	`<PROTECTED>`
`02:34.34`	`L4m3r`	`likewise, 2.1 has been changed to 2.99`
`02:34.53`	`LeGeeko`	`Ah`
`02:34.56`	`L4m3r`	`Furthermore, there is no set release date. it will be released when it's done.`
`02:35.12`	`LeGeeko`	`THAT I can understand :P`
`02:37.54`	`LeGeeko`	`Yes, one thing to keep in mind when programming something: If you set a deadline, don't expect to be finished by then. I know all too well how a simple thing can take months longer than expected.`
`02:38.19`	`L4m3r`	`3.0 isn't a simple thing, either`
`02:38.45`	`F687s`	`Oh, I've seen the changes...`
`02:38.50`	`LeGeeko`	`I know.`
`02:39.21`	`LeGeeko`	`That's why I want to play 3.0 - it's so cool`
`02:39.38`	`LeGeeko`	`...er`
`02:40.31`	`blast007`	`2.99.x ;)`
`02:40.52`	`LeGeeko`	`OK, 2.99.x`
`02:41.09`	`LeGeeko`	`:)`
`02:42.00`	`L4m3r`	`most of the changes you've "seen" are quite superficial.`
`02:42.05`	`*** part/#bzflag nn-main (n=nn@74.94.43.196)`
`02:42.17`	`L4m3r`	`most of the work has gone into the backend... namely the server state, proto, and API`
`02:42.44`	`LeGeeko`	`Ah...`
`02:43.33`	`DTRemenak`	`according to the copernican principle, there is a 95% probability that 3.0 will be released more than 10 days from now, and less than 40 years from now.`
`02:43.50`	`L4m3r`	`works for me`
`02:45.02`	`LeGeeko`	`According to simple logic, 3.0 may have already been released in another dimension.`
`02:45.23`	`L4m3r`	`well, if you find it there, send us a tarball`
`02:45.33`	`LeGeeko`	`( the same dimension in which I am a purple rabbit )`
`02:45.41`	`LeGeeko`	`Ok will do`
`02:47.54`	`LeGeeko`	`I really like the "GeoBolt" shots in the beta versions`
`02:48.24`	`blast007`	`last I checked (months ago) I don't like the GM in the experimental mode`
`02:48.31`	`L4m3r`	`wow, KDE4 uses 40% less ram than KDE3 :o`
`02:48.41`	`blast007`	`nice`
`02:49.20`	`LeGeeko`	`yeah, the GM is too small`
`02:50.05`	`LeGeeko`	`L4m3r: stands to reason, KDE4 is newer and more hardware-efficient, is it not?`
`02:50.06`	`blast007`	`it looks worse than the old GM ;)`
`02:50.18`	`Macrosoft`	`L4m3r: now if they can make it 40% less ugly`
`02:50.33`	`LeGeeko`	`Hey! no insults`
`02:50.38`	`L4m3r`	`the new screenies are weird, yeah`
`02:50.49`	`L4m3r`	`I'm sure it won't be hard to reconfigure, though`
`02:51.18`	`Macrosoft`	`my favorite thing in kde is konsole`
`02:51.41`	`Macrosoft`	`...i use gnome apps for everything else`
`02:52.02`	`L4m3r`	`...which still leaves you better off than a CERTAIN other desktop environment, which looks like total ass OOTB (yes worse than KDE) and stays that way`
`02:52.27`	`LeGeeko`	`I just don't really care - if it works, then hey I'll use it.`
`02:52.48`	`L4m3r`	`...it's like Windows 98 and Mac OS 9 got really, REALLY drunk one night, and Gnome was the result`
`02:53.41`	`L4m3r`	`oh, of course`
`02:53.43`	`LeGeeko`	`Excuse me, but GNOME works and looks just as good as any other desktop environment`
`02:54.18`	`L4m3r`	`oh please. gnome is hideous and illogical, and GTK's open/save dialogs are retarded.`
`02:54.42`	`LeGeeko`	`You have'nt seen what you can do with BERYL`
`02:54.55`	`L4m3r`	`you can run beryl under any WM`
`02:55.22`	`L4m3r`	`3D ugly is still ugly :P`
`02:55.40`	`LeGeeko`	`psst! Hey Windows! L4m3r just called you a short fat guy!`
`02:56.08`	`LeGeeko`	`You can change the ugly by changing the theme`
`02:56.20`	`L4m3r`	`Vista's UI actually looks pretty decent... helluvalot better than XP`
`02:56.42`	`Macrosoft`	`...wobbly windows works on bz in windowed mode, too`
`02:56.51`	`L4m3r`	`of course, it comes at a ridiculous price in terms of performance (and $$), but it still looks good :P`
`02:56.53`	`DTRemenak`	`L4m3r: and yet still worse than 2k's... :P`
`02:56.54`	`LeGeeko`	`Yes, Vista does LOOK decent. They took GUI to the extent that it is all that's left`
`02:57.37`	`LeGeeko`	`Nothing works on vista, and it's been around for a whole year`
`02:58.14`	`LeGeeko`	`No, actually.`
`02:58.24`	`LeGeeko`	`I usually don't go near the place`
`02:58.45`	`LeGeeko`	`only when I find a really interesting article somewhere`
`02:59.01`	`DTRemenak`	`our company has been buying machines with xp licenses and we plan to do so for the forseeable future`
`02:59.15`	`LeGeeko`	`Yeah`
`02:59.31`	`DTRemenak`	`we have several vista machines specifically for testing`
`02:59.52`	`LeGeeko`	`but beware - microsoft forced a secret update on some XP machines earlier this year`
`03:00.05`	`LeGeeko`	`... it forced the users to upgrade to V`
`03:00.58`	`LeGeeko`	`looks for suitably "grossed-out" Emoticon`
`03:01.10`	`Macrosoft`	`LeGeeko: "V"?`
`03:01.17`	`LeGeeko`	`Vista`
`03:01.21`	`*** join/#bzflag Tedius_ (n=Tedius@adsl-76-205-97-39.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net)`
`03:01.52`	`Macrosoft`	`LeGeeko: how did it "force" them to upgrade?`
`03:01.54`	`L4m3r`	`it's another Windows version, not the apocalypse. give it time, they'll work out the issues.`
`03:02.06`	`DTRemenak`	`vista has caused a ton of problems (like many other windows upgrades in the past)`
`03:02.26`	`DTRemenak`	`if people don't complain they'll just keep doing the same crap all over again next time`
`03:02.34`	`DTRemenak`	`course they probably will even if people do complain`
`03:02.36`	`DTRemenak`	`meh`
`03:02.45`	`Macrosoft`	`meh^2`
`03:02.53`	`LeGeeko`	`Macrosoft: when the user tried to re-install XP, Microsoft took over the AutoUpdate software`
`03:03.17`	`LeGeeko`	`...And thus "forced" the user to get Vista`
`03:03.42`	`Macrosoft`	`LeGeeko: only one person`
`03:03.45`	`Macrosoft`	`?`
`03:04.04`	`LeGeeko`	`No - anyone who tried to re-install XP for any reason`
`03:04.35`	`Macrosoft`	`LeGeeko: funny, i, nor anyone i know, have had that problem when reinstalling`
`03:04.42`	`DTRemenak`	`so where do you get this tripe, if not from digg?`
`03:05.13`	`DTRemenak`	`is there some other insane-rumor-spreading site on up and coming that we need to be warned about?`
`03:05.19`	`LeGeeko`	`Probably a PC magazine`
`03:05.44`	`Macrosoft`	`LeGeeko: and it isnt a secret update if people know about it :P`
`03:06.32`	`LeGeeko`	`At the time, it was. Microsoft enabled something that let the "secret" update go unnoticet by man or firewall`
`03:07.48`	`Macrosoft`	`LeGeeko: actually, the update was only installed if the user had automatic updates enabled. those with updates disabled didnt get the update`
`03:08.28`	`Macrosoft`	`LeGeeko: the only difference from a normal update is that it didnt notify the user that it was being installed`
`03:08.35`	`LeGeeko`	`True. But anyone with a fresh installation of XP NEEDS the updates, of they get viruses`
`03:08.52`	`LeGeeko`	`*OR they get viruses`
`03:09.18`	`LeGeeko`	`Hey, I even get malware when my PC IS up-to-date`
`03:09.20`	`DTRemenak`	`fwiw, this is in seriously-off-topic-land too`
`03:09.27`	`LeGeeko`	`nyeah`
`03:09.31`	`LeGeeko`	`grr`
`03:09.43`	`LeGeeko`	`I have the N-key disease :(`
`03:11.17`	`LeGeeko`	`heh. KDE looks like they're tring to beat Vista AND Leopard all in one go.`
`03:11.43`	`LeGeeko`	`I only use XP for programming and the like`
`03:12.25`	`Macrosoft`	`LeGeeko: then where are you getting viruses from?`
`03:12.52`	`Winny`	`hah, you got a virus?`
`03:13.33`	`LeGeeko`	`I got them when I reinstalled from a backup disk. I had a perfectly bare system and I had to fight fot it's life`
`03:13.50`	`LeGeeko`	`Not I have ZoneAlarm I don't get viruses`
`03:14.06`	`Winny`	`you need to use windows update...`
`03:14.10`	`Macrosoft`	`as long as i dont run untrustworthy apps from the net and defrag my drives after heavy use, mine runs fine`
`03:14.18`	`LeGeeko`	`grr - *now i have ZA`
`03:14.54`	`LeGeeko`	`winny: I did. and I'm up-to-date on XP with only one problem`
`03:15.19`	`Winny`	`LeGeeko: which is?`
`03:15.36`	`Macrosoft`	`Winny: that its still windows :P`
`03:15.41`	`LeGeeko`	`A memory leak when I try to browse the web.`
`03:15.51`	`blast007`	`LeGeeko: how did you get a virus just because you didn't run a firewall? not using a router?`
`03:16.25`	`LeGeeko`	`sigh I do have a router, and was using it, but I got one anyway`
`03:16.48`	`Winny`	`...and was XP up to date?`
`03:16.52`	`Macrosoft`	`LeGeeko: quit running warez on it :p`
`03:17.15`	`LeGeeko`	`warez? never heard of it.`
`03:18.05`	`LeGeeko`	`Winny: Not then`
`03:18.16`	`LeGeeko`	`but shortly afterward`
`03:18.18`	`Winny`	`well there ya gp`
`03:18.31`	`Winny`	`you can't blame MS for you not upadating windows`
`03:18.43`	`LeGeeko`	`I wasn't`
`03:18.50`	`Macrosoft`	`LeGeeko: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warez`
`03:21.57`	`LeGeeko`	`Oh so THAT's warez...`
`03:23.19`	`LeGeeko`	`warez be BAD`
`03:31.18`	`*** part/#bzflag LeGeeko (n=jonathan@usrw-60.mw.kconline.com)`
`03:32.35`	`*** join/#bzflag Pimpi_ (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org)`
`03:40.01`	`Macrosoft`	`...or what any of the objects are`
`03:45.46`	`JeffM2501`	`the names don't tell you waht they do?`
`03:47.14`	`CIA-3`	`BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r16287 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsMessages.cxx: start converting messages over to the message system`
`03:47.35`	`Macrosoft`	`and finalRate, etc.`
`03:48.31`	`JeffM2501`	`where is that at?`
`03:49.52`	`JeffM2501`	`ahh that's old dead code I think`
`03:49.54`	`*** join/#bzflag BenUrban (n=benurban@unaffiliated/benurban)`
`03:49.56`	`JeffM2501`	`or redundnat`
`03:50.01`	`Macrosoft`	`dont know where its declared at yet, its mentioned in src/bzfs/Gamekeeper.cxx in GameKeeper::Player::updateNextGameTime()`
`03:50.10`	`JeffM2501`	`it's been replaced by the server sycned clock`
`03:50.17`	`JeffM2501`	`it's in GameTime.h`
`03:50.52`	`JeffM2501`	`but it's the rate at witch clock syncs are sent at the start`
`03:51.00`	`Macrosoft`	`oh`
`03:51.01`	`JeffM2501`	`it starts fast`
`03:51.03`	`JeffM2501`	`then gets slower`
`03:51.07`	`JeffM2501`	`as the time lag evens out`
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`09:58.00`	`quantumdot`	`what is linkedin for?`
`09:59.24`	`L4m3r`	`huh?`
`10:00.12`	`ruskie`	`for job hunting and such afaik`
`10:00.22`	`L4m3r`	`oh, that`
`10:00.34`	`L4m3r`	`sorry, I'm tired`
`10:02.25`	`quantumdot`	`thanks ruskie, but hunting jobs bzflag related?`
`10:02.38`	`ruskie`	`no clue`
`10:02.43`	`ruskie`	`only know genericaly what it is...`
`10:03.15`	`ruskie`	`I don't give much for social networking and such`
`10:03.15`	`L4m3r`	`I think it's kind of like social networking for grown-ups`
`10:03.15`	`L4m3r`	`:P`
`10:03.15`	`quantumdot`	`the link directs to a bzflag group membership application`
`10:03.15`	`ruskie`	`only usable thing I find off all these sites is ohlol...`
`10:03.17`	`L4m3r`	`just as a way to connect people in a job contex, I think`
`10:03.29`	`L4m3r`	`you mean ohloh? :P`
`10:03.54`	`ruskie`	`yeah sorry sleep deprived(office party yesterday so didn't get much sleep :( )`
`10:04.11`	`quantumdot`	`thanks guys, just wanted to know if it was worth to register. I dont see it that way right now then`
`10:06.03`	`*** join/#bzflag PrezzKennedy (i=Matt@74.86.45.130)`
`10:22.39`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone)`
`10:22.39`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ`
`10:22.49`	`brlcad`	`ciao Tupone`
`10:23.02`	`Tupone`	`hola brlcad`
`10:23.22`	`Tupone`	`:)`
`10:53.03`	`*** join/#bzflag lepoulpe304 (n=LePoulpe@LSt-Amand-152-32-5-35.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`11:30.15`	`*** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-114-69-187.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com)`
`11:30.42`	`*** join/#bzflag BZ_Win (n=KyleVE@unaffiliated/winny)`
`11:46.02`	`brlcad`	`heh, http://youtube.com/watch?v=ywqu_8RIDvU`
`11:53.06`	`*** join/#bzflag whodaman-_ (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-)`
`11:56.26`	`*** join/#bzflag RatOmeter (n=chatzill@r74-195-253-145.stl1cmta01.stwrok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net)`
`11:57.45`	`RatOmeter`	`any badgerking's admins around? A feller calling himself "Christopher Reeves Wheelchair" is cheating badly (invincible, WG, etc) and we can't get a ban vote thru`
`11:58.16`	`whodaman-`	`RatOmeter, a well known cheater`
`12:02.09`	`RatOmeter`	`I know... just need a cop ;)`
`12:02.29`	`whodaman-`	`wake up cops :P`
`12:03.26`	`RatOmeter`	`we've got bzAddictChic who's been idle for 1000 seconds, vitaly who keeps typing just "yes" to vote and others who obvlously don't know what they're doing`
`12:04.59`	`whodaman-`	`oh great`
`12:05.10`	`whodaman-`	`CRW" Type /part vote yes"`
`12:05.16`	`brlcad`	`RatOmeter: educate them ;)`
`12:05.17`	`whodaman-`	`3 people do it >_<`
`12:05.27`	`whodaman-`	`brlcad, we're trying :/`
`12:06.03`	`brlcad`	`can also (later) lobby the server admin to make the polling requirements less restrictive (require a lesser percentage)`
`12:06.59`	`whodaman-`	`well, it took 20 minutes but the poll went through`
`12:07.05`	`RatOmeter`	`will do, but for now it's a Clusterfark`
`12:07.32`	`ruskie`	`bah... crw active again...`
`12:07.52`	`ruskie`	`he's just being annoying...`
`12:07.54`	`whodaman-`	`ruskie, he's been to all the big servers lately`
`12:08.04`	`RatOmeter`	`also some reg'd players are having trouble not authenticating`
`12:08.48`	`ruskie`	`whodaman-, yeah... I banned him @vipers earlier this week I think`
`12:08.58`	`ruskie`	`after doing /kill 200 times on him first`
`12:09.05`	`whodaman-`	`lol`
`12:09.17`	`whodaman-`	`I think he was hostbanned at bzflagr`
`12:09.30`	`ruskie`	`I think I did a hostban as well...`
`12:09.39`	`ruskie`	`and a wildcard at that`
`12:10.23`	`whodaman-`	`he's back`
`12:11.01`	`RatOmeter`	`dang, I wasted my early morning bz time on him... almost time to go to work now :(`
`12:11.02`	`whodaman-`	`he went to fairserve`
`12:11.18`	`ruskie`	`<-- is @work :(`
`12:35.05`	`*** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-)`
`12:35.05`	`*** join/#bzflag scott (n=scott@unaffiliated/scott) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`12:35.09`	`*** join/#bzflag lepoulpe304 (n=LePoulpe@LSt-Amand-152-32-5-35.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`12:35.09`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`12:35.09`	`*** join/#bzflag L4m3r (n=l4m3r@about/essy/warning/L4m3r)`
`12:35.09`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+vv Tupone L4m3r] by irc.freenode.net`
`12:36.22`	`*** join/#bzflag Winny (n=KyleVE@unaffiliated/winny)`
`12:36.22`	`*** join/#bzflag quantumdot (n=jmlopez@about/essy/Charm/quantumdot)`
`12:36.22`	`*** join/#bzflag Pimpi_ (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org)`
`12:36.22`	`*** join/#bzflag menotume (n=menotume@pdpc/supporter/active/menotume)`
`12:36.22`	`*** join/#bzflag wert613 (n=crash@unaffiliated/wert613) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`12:36.22`	`*** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (n=gnurdux@c-69-251-252-148.hsd1.md.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`12:36.22`	`*** join/#bzflag deprecated (n=deprecat@c-24-18-19-17.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)`
`12:36.22`	`*** join/#bzflag blast007 (i=blast@pdpc/supporter/active/blast007)`
`12:36.22`	`*** join/#bzflag Admirarch (i=mwr25@pip.srcf.societies.cam.ac.uk)`
`12:36.22`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+vv menotume blast007] by irc.freenode.net`
`12:36.24`	`*** join/#bzflag delusional (n=delusion@unaffiliated/delusional) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`12:36.24`	`*** join/#bzflag stylus (i=stylus@freenode/helper/stylus)`
`12:36.24`	`*** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (n=Thumper@about/essy/coffeeAddict/Thumper)`
`12:36.25`	`*** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (i=DTRemena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak)`
`12:36.26`	`*** join/#bzflag rtfm (n=rtfm@pdpc/supporter/active/blast007) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`12:36.26`	`*** join/#bzflag ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`12:36.26`	`*** join/#bzflag mkzelda (i=mkzelda@unaffiliated/mkzelda) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`12:36.26`	`*** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=const@unaffiliated/macsforme) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`12:36.26`	`*** join/#bzflag ts (n=ts@bz.bzflag.bz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`12:36.26`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+vv DTRemenak rtfm] by irc.freenode.net`
`12:36.30`	`*** join/#bzflag Chestal (i=thilo@pdpc/supporter/active/Chestal)`
`12:36.30`	`*** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (n=a_meteor@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001)`
`12:36.30`	`*** join/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`12:36.30`	`*** join/#bzflag Djpenguin (n=David@adsl-216-102-90-233.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`12:36.30`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-3 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`12:36.30`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o Chestal] by irc.freenode.net`
`12:36.52`	`whodaman-`	`weeeeee`
`12:42.29`	`*** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-)`
`12:42.49`	`*** join/#bzflag lepoulpe303 (n=LePoulpe@about/essy/MobileTarget/LePoulpe303)`
`12:52.44`	`*** join/#bzflag lepoulpe303 (n=LePoulpe@about/essy/MobileTarget/LePoulpe303)`
`12:54.39`	`*** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (n=QuantumB@72.47.73.208)`
`12:54.41`	`*** join/#bzflag Daveman (n=dave@pool-138-89-138-106.mad.east.verizon.net)`
`13:03.17`	`*** join/#bzflag bier_ (n=bier@p54A57473.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`13:28.00`	`lepoulpe303`	`i can't find the pages explaining bzflag protocol in the wiki`
`13:28.10`	`lepoulpe303`	`i'm sure iv'e seen them there months ago`
`13:31.18`	`lepoulpe303`	`ok i finally found it`
`13:31.30`	`lepoulpe303`	`was in "concept" category`
`13:50.57`	`*** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@212.71.5.181)`
`14:01.07`	`*** join/#bzflag TheRedBaron (n=Kalen@c-68-35-238-65.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)`
`14:14.47`	`lepoulpe303`	`Manu: ping ?`
`14:31.40`	`*** join/#bzflag Evelyk (i=kyleve@gateway/web/cgi-irc/bzflagr.net/x-d226b06253dcaa24)`
`14:33.34`	`*** join/#bzflag AAA_Awright (n=AAA_awri@wsip-68-14-251-102.ph.ph.cox.net)`
`15:01.40`	`*** part/#bzflag Macrosoft (n=Macrosof@c-75-65-81-245.hsd1.la.comcast.net)`
`15:16.36`	`Manu`	`lepoulpe303: pong`
`15:17.06`	`lepoulpe303`	`Manu: may i occasionaly use your server for unharmful observer bot test ?`
`15:17.31`	`Manu`	`what kind of bot test?`
`15:17.52`	`lepoulpe303`	`i actually have a bot connected both on irc and bzflag server`
`15:18.05`	`lepoulpe303`	`i want to report in irc things from the server`
`15:18.23`	`Manu`	`messages?`
`15:18.24`	`lepoulpe303`	`so bot is muted on bzflag server`
`15:18.46`	`lepoulpe303`	`player list, scores ....`
`15:18.53`	`Manu`	`that's fine`
`15:19.01`	`lepoulpe303`	`want a short demo ?`
`15:19.04`	`Manu`	`what's the bot callsign?`
`15:19.09`	`lepoulpe303`	`lepoulpebot`
`15:19.25`	`Manu`	`ok, I'll tell to other cops`
`15:19.45`	`lepoulpe303`	`mucho gracias !`
`15:19.50`	`Manu`	`to not kick you :)`
`15:20.10`	`lepoulpe303`	`i promise, this time, i'll not put any ranking system on ;)`
`15:20.20`	`Manu`	`:)`
`15:25.14`	`*** join/#bzflag lepoulpebot (n=lepoulpe@LSt-Amand-152-32-5-35.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`15:25.20`	`lepoulpe303`	`lepoulpebot: connect`
`15:25.20`	`lepoulpebot`	`Connecting to viper2.pimpi.org:5158`
`15:25.21`	`lepoulpebot`	`Connected!`
`15:25.30`	`lepoulpe303`	`lepoulpebot: players`
`15:25.30`	`lepoulpebot`	`Artix,fftb,Sikkim3,qubix,flos schlimster alptraum,duc de mornecouille,ag-syst,Metal Pet,crassmonkee,kika,jeeger,kevanovski,Hot Granny,STTS,czecho,pipiskaaaaaa,golDDiger,bikkel,Linus2,emergencypie,la taupe,rock I rock,lepoulpebot`
`15:25.51`	`lepoulpe303`	`lepoulpebot: showfight`
`15:25.54`	`lepoulpebot`	`emergencypie killed flos schlimster alptraum`
`15:25.55`	`lepoulpebot`	`bikkel killed Metal Pet`
`15:25.55`	`lepoulpebot`	`bikkel killed bikkel`
`15:25.57`	`lepoulpe303`	`lepoulpebot: showfight`
`15:41.20`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-2 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)`
`15:46.32`	`*** join/#bzflag CIA-2 (n=CIA@208.69.182.149)`
`15:56.24`	`*** join/#bzflag thefirstdude (n=inferno@216-161-133-179.dlth.qwest.net)`
`15:56.57`	`thefirstdude`	`hi`
`15:57.20`	`whodaman-`	`hello`
`15:57.49`	`thefirstdude`	`has anyone seen Tadd recently, I need to talk to him about something on his server?`
`15:58.04`	`thefirstdude`	`I tried email, aim, and msn`
`15:58.14`	`whodaman-`	`Send him an PM via the forums?`
`15:58.26`	`thefirstdude`	`good idea, I'll try that`
`15:58.53`	`whodaman-`	`;)`
`16:00.28`	`*** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-135-224-200.range86-135.btcentralplus.com)`
`16:01.50`	`*** join/#bzflag lepoulpebot (n=lepoulpe@LSt-Amand-152-32-5-35.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr)`
`16:01.57`	`lepoulpe303`	`lepoulpebot: connect`
`16:01.57`	`lepoulpebot`	`Connecting to viper2.pimpi.org:5158`
`16:01.58`	`lepoulpebot`	`Connected!`
`16:02.05`	`lepoulpe303`	`lepoulpebot: players`
`16:02.05`	`lepoulpebot`	`ezra1,lengendary pokemon,Paxter,Stormfrog,His Royal Exellency, MeanMoto,Viking Lord,hei oh pei,lepoulpebot,Borst,beargod,Moto Unit,carl,STTS`
`16:02.21`	`lepoulpe303`	`lepoulpebot: player carl`
`16:02.21`	`lepoulpebot`	`carl (win/lost/tk):22 / 24 / 3`
`16:02.46`	`thefirstdude`	`what?`
`16:02.56`	`whodaman-`	`lepoulpe303, neat`
`16:03.03`	`Manu`	`lepoulpe303: player Moto Unit`
`16:03.26`	`Manu`	`lepoulpebot: player Moto Unit`
`16:03.42`	`Manu`	`lepoulpe303: bug?`
`16:03.54`	`blast007`	`lepoulpebot: player carl`
`16:03.58`	`whodaman-`	`Maybe only lepoulpe303 has access :p`
`16:03.59`	`lepoulpe303`	`manu : you're not allowed ;)`
`16:04.02`	`blast007`	`or it doesn't respond to us ;)`
`16:04.05`	`whodaman-`	`that's what I though`
`16:04.14`	`Manu`	`lepoulpe303: I guessed it`
`16:04.20`	`whodaman-`	`lepoulpebot, player hei oh pei`
`16:04.20`	`lepoulpe303`	`and i 'll have a bug with moto unit because of space character`
`16:04.31`	`Manu`	`lepoulpe303: I knew ;)`
`16:04.40`	`lepoulpe303`	`you tickling guy`
`16:05.02`	`lepoulpe303`	`lepoulpebot: player carl`
`16:05.03`	`lepoulpebot`	`carl (win/lost/tk):22 / 24 / 3`
`16:05.07`	`lepoulpe303`	`hmmm`
`16:05.22`	`lepoulpe303`	`either carl is only losing, either i have a bug`
`16:05.34`	`lepoulpe303`	`lepoulpebot: player carl`
`16:05.34`	`lepoulpebot`	`carl (win/lost/tk):22 / 24 / 3`
`16:06.01`	`lepoulpe303`	`ok time for the week end`
`16:06.17`	`lepoulpe303`	`see ya later ;)`
`16:13.29`	`TheRedBaron`	`~weekend++`
`16:14.36`	`whodaman-`	`~TheRedBaron++`
`16:14.39`	`whodaman-`	`:)`
`16:18.17`	`*** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-069-071.ewe-ip-backbone.de)`
`16:19.22`	`TheRedBaron`	`:)`
`16:27.51`	`Pimpi_`	`ok, we need a flag, that tells bots wether they are allowed to join or not`
`16:29.33`	`Pimpi_`	`recently someone connected a tool named bzlinker to viper and another server, and the servers exchanged public channel messages`
`16:31.26`	`Pimpi_`	`probably a byte where every bit represents one kind of bot. bots can check that and exit geacefully if they are not wanted`
`16:34.20`	`Pimpi_`	`1 could be official stuff like the listserver, 2 = other listbots, 4 = logging bots, 8 = cchaterbots, etc`
`16:34.27`	`Pimpi_`	`something like that`
`16:34.44`	`*** join/#bzflag stylus (i=stylus@freenode/helper/stylus)`
`16:42.48`	`L4m3r`	`ugh, I knew that bzlinker would be abused`
`16:43.30`	`*** join/#bzflag O-Neil (n=Miranda@dslb-088-070-229-242.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`16:43.43`	`brlcad`	`heh`
`16:44.07`	`L4m3r`	`and Pimpi_, unfortunately that would only block people without malicious intent... and someone who just uses a modified bzadmin probably won't bother to check`
`16:45.54`	`L4m3r`	`(and afaik bzlinker is just a hack of bzadmin)`
`16:48.40`	`*** join/#bzflag kick52 (n=kick52-i@91.108.207.246)`
`16:49.07`	`kick52`	`my previous score was a whopping -36`
`17:04.28`	`gsnedders`	`Pimpi_: I just claim my bot is a client and what can you do?`
`17:05.55`	`blast007`	`kick52: takes a while to learn ;)`
`17:06.16`	`blast007`	`kick52: what servers have you been playing on?`
`17:06.25`	`blast007`	`ones with lots of bullets and jumping?`
`17:06.40`	`kick52`	`yes`
`17:06.45`	`blast007`	`if so, might want to try something like Ducati or Pillbox`
`17:06.54`	`blast007`	`lower shot counts and no jumping`
`17:06.56`	`kick52`	`cool, i'll try thhat`
`17:07.05`	`blast007`	`helps you get your dodging skills down first`
`17:07.38`	`blast007`	`CTF might be fun as well, since you don't really care about personal score`
`17:07.45`	`blast007`	`just about the overall team captures`
`17:08.23`	`blast007`	`also some guides here: http://shellshock.bzflag.bz/`
`17:09.52`	`kick52`	`thanks`
`17:10.06`	`blast007`	`np`
`17:16.38`	`Pimpi_`	`L4m3r: sure, but you can never block people with malicious intent, thats what admons are for`
`17:17.14`	`Pimpi_`	`bzadmin hacks, yes that's be a problem`
`17:18.25`	`Pimpi_`	`with those flags i'd just aim on people who know what they're doing and know protocols`
`17:19.11`	`Pimpi_`	`is bzlinker gsnedders project?`
`17:19.58`	`blast007`	`it's on SF`
`17:20.41`	`blast007`	`the admin is "leedude"`
`17:20.41`	`Pimpi_`	`yep, i've seen it, but i don't know the devloper named there`
`17:37.47`	`Manu`	`Pimpi_: bzlinker is a hack, just replace 2 files in bzflag code`
`17:38.42`	`ruskie`	`:)`
`17:39.35`	`*** join/#bzflag Erroneous (n=dtremena@67-131-219-2.dia.static.qwest.net)`
`17:39.46`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v Erroneous] by ChanServ`
`17:39.54`	`Pimpi_`	`oh, it's just a hack...i already assumed it was a pain...`
`17:39.59`	`Pimpi_`	`;)`
`17:40.02`	`Manu`	`:)`
`17:40.45`	`ruskie`	`so are there any bots we need to not kick?`
`17:41.25`	`Manu`	`if no troubles, and free spots, no need to kick :)`
`17:41.55`	`ruskie`	`if they are logging and are making those logs accessible someplace we need to inform the players...`
`17:42.11`	`ruskie`	`if they are just collecting stats doesn't really matter`
`17:42.13`	`Manu`	`ruskie: you also can do it.. and every player can do it too`
`17:42.38`	`ruskie`	`yes... I know that... /me references irseek.com`
`17:42.51`	`ruskie`	`but every player doesn't mean will publish those logs anywhere`
`17:43.04`	`ruskie`	`I keep logs for my own use... not to put them on a website to get indexed`
`17:43.42`	`ruskie`	`might want to add bot-slots to the server that are used only for bots :)`
`17:43.58`	`Manu`	`well, you know we don't allow that, but if a player does it, it's difficult to detect`
`17:44.11`	`ruskie`	`we see it on the web...`
`17:44.16`	`Manu`	`yes`
`17:44.23`	`Manu`	`bbl :(`
`17:44.27`	`ruskie`	`the point is if a bot does it it should be known ahead...`
`17:44.35`	`ruskie`	`anyway off to do some bzfraging...`
`17:45.26`	`brlcad`	`yeah, there are lots of "valid" bot uses, I wouldn't think you'd want to ban them all`
`17:45.55`	`*** join/#bzflag RatOmeter (n=chatzill@205.162.226.154)`
`17:49.42`	`whodaman-`	`RatOmeter, hey`
`17:50.00`	`RatOmeter`	`hey, who`
`17:50.37`	`RatOmeter`	`no more CRW sightings today, I guess?`
`17:51.11`	`*** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (n=JeffM@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/JeffM2501)`
`17:51.11`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+o JeffM2501] by ChanServ`
`17:54.17`	`whodaman-`	`RatOmeter, yes, actually`
`17:54.38`	`whodaman-`	`I banned him on divi.fairserve right after his stop at badgerking's`
`17:55.31`	`RatOmeter`	`ah, OK. badgerking's is listed as his last stop at my.bzflag.org, but you must have axed him before the stats updated`
`17:56.06`	`*** join/#bzflag gsnedders (n=gsnedder@host86-135-224-200.range86-135.btcentralplus.com)`
`17:57.04`	`whodaman-`	`RatOmeter, I guess, I knew he'd be out for another server, just checked the first one on the list and there he was`
`17:57.37`	`RatOmeter`	`maybe it would be crueler to have a sort of in-game ban... banned person gets to join but as a ghost who's shots & flags have no effect`
`17:57.44`	`RatOmeter`	`silenced too`
`17:58.02`	`whodaman-`	`lol`
`17:58.27`	`JeffM2501`	`so just a waste of bandwith`
`17:58.30`	`RatOmeter`	`probably not doable by protocol constraints, but sounds plenty evil`
`17:58.49`	`RatOmeter`	`yes, it takes bandwidth to implement revenge ;)`
`17:59.02`	`JeffM2501`	`bzflag is not about mallace or evil`
`17:59.06`	`JeffM2501`	`if it was, you'd not have the source`
`17:59.39`	`RatOmeter`	`easy there, it's just wishful thinking`
`17:59.52`	`JeffM2501`	`so you wish to be evil ? ;)`
`18:00.07`	`RatOmeter`	`more of a "just desserts" mood`
`18:00.23`	`JeffM2501`	`all it does is give them the attention they want`
`18:00.29`	`RatOmeter`	`likely`
`18:00.35`	`JeffM2501`	`you single them out to be "special"`
`18:00.52`	`JeffM2501`	`optimaly what you'd want to do is force them to play correctly`
`18:01.01`	`JeffM2501`	`since that is the thing they do NOT want to do`
`18:01.11`	`RatOmeter`	`unfortunately that's what the fiasco of attempting poll bans got him this morn`
`18:01.14`	`RatOmeter`	`attention`
`18:01.29`	`JeffM2501`	`pollbans are not a replacement for good old administration`
`18:02.30`	`thefirstdude`	`I agree`
`18:03.02`	`RatOmeter`	`often badgerking's has 1 or more cops on, but not that time`
`18:04.52`	`whodaman-`	`RatOmeter, that's when you need 'em ;)`
`18:14.16`	`JeffM2501`	`then less servers are needed to consoldate down the admins`
`18:14.26`	`JeffM2501`	`or the onwer needs to get a stronger admin pressence`
`18:16.24`	`JeffM2501`	`mayhaps if I ever finish my hosting idea it could have an adminness system`
`18:19.12`	`*** join/#bzflag Epyon (i=Epyon@host99.180.219.81.magma-net.pl)`
`18:36.41`	`quantumdot`	`JeffM2501: an adminless system? looks interesting you even can have an idea to make it work :)`
`18:36.47`	`*** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=Spazzy_M@unaffiliated/spazzymcgee)`
`18:36.50`	`JeffM2501`	`adminless?`
`18:36.55`	`JeffM2501`	`quite the oposite`
`18:36.58`	`JeffM2501`	`it's full of admins`
`18:37.15`	`quantumdot`	`i was just reading what you said`
`18:37.17`	`JeffM2501`	`it has adminness`
`18:37.20`	`quantumdot`	`maybe got it wrong`
`18:37.22`	`JeffM2501`	`not adminless ;)`
`18:37.25`	`quantumdot`	`arg!`
`18:37.36`	`quantumdot`	`that makes MORE sense`
`18:37.47`	`scott`	`silly qd`
`18:37.55`	`quantumdot`	`oh no, scott follows me`
`18:38.12`	`scott`	`i've been here for ages :p`
`18:38.28`	`quantumdot`	`~whipe scott`
`18:39.01`	`scott`	`!`
`18:55.41`	`TheRedBaron`	`adminness? The feminine form of admin?`
`18:55.59`	`JeffM2501`	`that woudl be an adminess`
`18:56.29`	`JeffM2501`	`since it's baroness, not baronness`
`18:56.33`	`JeffM2501`	`IIRC`
`18:56.45`	`TheRedBaron`	`ah, you do recall correctly`
`19:04.07`	`TheRedBaron`	`as far fetched as it is, does bzflag have support for ipv6?`
`19:07.54`	`*** join/#bzflag whodaman-_ (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-)`
`19:15.09`	`*** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-)`
`19:16.29`	`*** join/#bzflag RatOmeter (n=chatzill@205.162.226.154)`
`19:29.52`	`*** join/#bzflag Warinthestar (n=Warinthe@1.168.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com)`
`19:41.46`	`*** join/#bzflag noyb (n=noyb@pool-71-108-80-158.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net)`
`19:55.34`	`*** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-114-69-187.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com)`
`19:55.51`	`*** join/#bzflag F687s (n=noah@cpe-71-67-112-44.woh.res.rr.com)`
`20:00.40`	`*** join/#bzflag O-Neil (n=Miranda@dslb-088-070-057-107.pools.arcor-ip.net)`
`20:35.57`	`*** join/#bzflag kick52 (n=kick52-i@91.108.235.184)`
`20:36.25`	`kick52`	`blast007: was it you who pointed me to the shell shock stuff earlier?`
`20:37.04`	`brlcad`	`kick52: yes it was blast007`
`20:37.34`	`kick52`	`blast007: just saying thanks. there are some nice tactics on there.`
`20:39.46`	`Constitution`	`BZBB admins: might want to check out http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=11929`
`20:41.44`	`Constitution`	`"large huge"?`
`20:42.43`	`kick52`	`i'm going to try another game and hopefully i'll get a positive score this time!`
`20:43.09`	`whodaman-`	`good luck`
`20:46.28`	`Constitution`	`~donny_baker++`
`20:59.03`	`*** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-)`
`21:01.31`	`kick52`	`blast007: my score is -34, but i have 7 KILLS!`
`21:01.51`	`kick52`	`it's on pillbox`
`21:02.04`	`Winny`	`7-41? :p`
`21:06.31`	`*** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-)`
`21:07.03`	`JeffM2501`	`TheRedBaron, no it does not`
`21:08.09`	`kick52`	`woah! 14 kills. this. is. in. sane.`
`21:08.26`	`JeffM2501`	`blast007, how hard is the stats site to modify?`
`21:08.43`	`F687s`	`You know, chatting on IRC while playing isn't really an optimal strategy ;-)`
`21:09.59`	`*** join/#bzflag terrier (n=pat@CPE00e018bf0302-CM00195ed9ee36.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`21:12.46`	`terrier`	`I'm looking for a map - river down the middle "realistic" trees, fog sound familiar to anyone?`
`21:13.02`	`Winny`	`terrier: Louman's Mystic valley?`
`21:13.07`	`Winny`	`Tedius mde something too`
`21:13.13`	`terrier`	`That's the one - thanks`
`21:13.42`	`Winny`	`which one was the one? :p`
`21:14.11`	`terrier`	`Loumans - sounds right anyway ;)`
`21:16.56`	`kick52`	`F687s: of course i do it while i'm dead :p`
`21:18.10`	`terrier`	`Loumans it is. Thx`
`21:18.12`	`F687s`	`kick52: (don't tempt me to say "so that means you're able to chat a lot")`
`21:26.52`	`JeffM2501`	`is that silver surfer?`
`21:26.59`	`JeffM2501`	`the terrier guy?`
`21:27.08`	`Winny`	`no idea`
`21:27.11`	`whodaman-`	`didnt sound like it`
`21:27.14`	`Winny`	`yeah`
`21:27.20`	`Winny`	`the grammar was far too awesome`
`21:27.29`	`whodaman-`	`silver surfer wouldn't have typed like that`
`21:27.38`	`Winny`	`n=pat@CPE00e018bf0302-CM00195ed9ee36.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com ... check that on BZBB?`
`21:28.34`	`JeffM2501`	`mayhaps`
`21:30.00`	`JeffM2501`	`anyone want to write up a small mod to the stats site for me?`
`21:30.20`	`Winny`	`is it only HTML and/or CSS?`
`21:30.25`	`JeffM2501`	`php`
`21:30.28`	`Winny`	`darn`
`21:30.54`	`JeffM2501`	`I want the default currentplayers page to skip observers`
`21:30.58`	`JeffM2501`	`and have an option to show them`
`21:31.38`	`Winny`	`what about not showing users with "bzadmin" in their email? (I assume you wanna remove the logging clients from the list)`
`21:32.28`	`JeffM2501`	`that type of filter can/should also be done`
`21:32.34`	`JeffM2501`	`but observcers are not players`
`21:32.38`	`JeffM2501`	`and the page is current players ;)`
`21:32.45`	`JeffM2501`	`we can also collpse dupes, etc..`
`21:33.02`	`JeffM2501`	`the simplest thing for now is to hide observers`
`21:33.16`	`JeffM2501`	`then we can come up with some more complex logics`
`21:35.13`	`JeffM2501`	`cus it'd be nice to filter on registered, unregisterd, etc..`
`21:36.45`	`kick52`	`me score is -74!`
`21:36.50`	`kick52`	`i have 34 kills.`
`21:36.52`	`JeffM2501`	`kick52, we don't realy care`
`21:36.59`	`JeffM2501`	`take it to #bzchat`
`21:37.01`	`kick52`	`you don't need to`
`21:37.08`	`JeffM2501`	`this is the develoipment and support channel`
`21:37.12`	`JeffM2501`	`not a babble channel`
`21:38.24`	`kick52`	`fuh`
`21:38.36`	`kick52`	`oh`
`21:38.48`	`Winny`	`can we help you?`
`21:38.51`	`kick52`	`and is there a way to make the OS X window size bigger`
`21:39.05`	`Winny`	`uh`
`21:39.08`	`Winny`	`press f1...`
`21:39.19`	`Winny`	`if you want full screen, that is`
`21:39.21`	`kick52`	`because i can make it a window, though when i select a resolution it goes back to fullscreen`
`21:39.22`	`JeffM2501`	`or change the geometry switch in your command line`
`21:39.32`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah the resoultions are fullscreen reses`
`21:39.33`	`kick52`	`ok`
`21:39.39`	`Winny`	`I can jusrt click & drag on 10.5`
`21:39.51`	`kick52`	`oh!`
`21:39.52`	`kick52`	`so can i`
`21:40.17`	`kick52`	`that's great thanks`
`21:40.20`	`*** part/#bzflag kick52 (n=kick52-i@91.108.235.184)`
`21:41.14`	`JeffM2501`	`the fake one you got at the time store?`
`21:41.21`	`JeffM2501`	`dime store`
`21:41.49`	`F687s`	`JeffM2501: why couldn't you just do a '(if ($team != "observer") print "$record"; ' or the equivalent?`
`21:41.54`	`Winny`	`dime store? I wasn't born in the 1800's.`
`21:41.56`	`Winny`	`;)`
`21:42.55`	`JeffM2501`	`ok dollar store`
`21:43.12`	`JeffM2501`	`F687s, you presume I know php`
`21:43.15`	`JeffM2501`	`or care to learn it`
`21:43.36`	`whodaman-`	`hehe`
`21:44.46`	`F687s`	`JeffM2501: it's pretty much C, with $ preceding variables, I'll revise my post`
`21:44.56`	`JeffM2501`	`F687s, I know what php is`
`21:45.02`	`F687s`	`web designers: why couldn't you just do a '(if ($team != "observer") print "$record"; ' or the equivalent?`
`21:45.13`	`JeffM2501`	`my statement had nothing to do with the techincal aspects of the language`
`21:45.28`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm sure the web monkeys know how to do it`
`21:45.33`	`JeffM2501`	`I just need to find one that WILL do it for me`
`21:46.38`	`JeffM2501`	`and your code does not do all that I asked`
`21:46.44`	`JeffM2501`	`I wanted an option to show them`
`21:47.03`	`JeffM2501`	`so that needs an arg, and an interface, and HTML work, etc..`
`21:47.35`	`F687s`	`I was just asking if that was what you wanted, in pseudo-pseudocode`
`21:47.59`	`JeffM2501`	`no, you were asking why it could not be done that way`
`21:48.27`	`*** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@24-159-201-122.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com)`
`21:49.59`	`F687s`	`drags out extinguisher no, from your statement you didn't want observers shown. (i'm guessing the "default" in the statement held priority)`
`21:50.38`	`JeffM2501`	`I wrote 2 lines`
`21:50.39`	`JeffM2501`	`<JeffM2501> I want the default currentplayers page to skip observers`
`21:50.40`	`JeffM2501`	`<JeffM2501> and have an option to show them`
`21:51.16`	`JeffM2501`	`then you asked me if I could not just do it using some kind of code you pasted`
`21:51.19`	`JeffM2501`	`that's all I know`
`21:52.23`	`F687s`	`didn't see the second line, code snippet was pseudocode, and that option would requite more work.`
`21:52.41`	`JeffM2501`	`and now you understand my responce ;)`
`21:52.46`	`JeffM2501`	`naw, everyone makes mistakes`
`21:54.16`	`Winny`	`JeffM2501: would BZEdit work on 64-bit windows?`
`21:54.30`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't see why not`
`21:54.40`	`Winny`	`k, just wanted to make sure`
`21:54.51`	`JeffM2501`	`64 bit windows emulates 32 bit windows`
`21:54.55`	`TheRedBaron`	`Winny: it does`
`21:55.01`	`TheRedBaron`	`I'm running xp 64 bit`
`21:55.21`	`JeffM2501`	`the only thing I know that dosn't work is stuff where you try to get your 64 bit exporer to use 32 bit shell extensions`
`21:55.41`	`JeffM2501`	`basicly a 64 bit app cant' load a 32bit DLL`
`21:55.45`	`JeffM2501`	`or vice versa`
`21:56.03`	`JeffM2501`	`so as long as your all 32, or all 64 for your app, you're cool`
`21:56.51`	`Winny`	`ok`
`21:57.07`	`JeffM2501`	`like right now I'm using 32 bit X chat`
`21:57.12`	`JeffM2501`	`I'm also on 64 bit XP`
`21:57.40`	`JeffM2501`	`it runs fine`
`21:57.42`	`TheRedBaron`	`JeffM2501: do you have trouble upgrading to service pack 2 on yours?`
`21:57.58`	`JeffM2501`	`by my old 32 bit winzip won't install the right click menu.`
`21:58.05`	`JeffM2501`	`cus explorer is 64 big`
`21:58.15`	`JeffM2501`	`TheRedBaron, using windows update, yes. using the direct download, no`
`21:59.30`	`TheRedBaron`	`ok`
`21:59.52`	`TheRedBaron`	`for the longest while, nvidia drivers threw up BSOD`
`22:00.03`	`JeffM2501`	`the only app that dosn't work on my system that I didn't find a replacement for, was iTunes.`
`22:00.12`	`JeffM2501`	`and it just won't rip CDs`
`22:01.37`	`Winny`	`...wow`
`22:01.38`	`Winny`	`http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?p=118820#118820`
`22:01.51`	`Winny`	`I really did figure he'd put two and two togerhet`
`22:02.30`	`Winny`	`together*`
`22:02.30`	`F687s`	`did you really have to torture him by giving him blender?`
`22:02.38`	`F687s`	`do you know what you've done?`
`22:03.10`	`whodaman-`	`well, I wont be looking at the 'Map' section for a while`
`22:03.22`	`Winny`	`F687s: it really isn't that hard to use`
`22:04.32`	`F687s`	`yes, but it certainly isn't easy, and who knows how many questions he will be asking daily...`
`22:05.26`	`Winny`	`I found it much more intuitive then wings, IMO`
`22:06.59`	`JeffM2501`	`he won't be asking many more.`
`22:07.32`	`Winny`	`it seriously seems like the noobish-ness curve is exponentially growing`
`22:08.20`	`F687s`	`how do you deal with someone like that?`
`22:09.11`	`JeffM2501`	`ask them nicely to try`
`22:09.20`	`JeffM2501`	`if they don't, turn off the ability to post`
`22:09.28`	`JeffM2501`	`untill they grow up`
`22:10.09`	`Winny`	`I sent him something asking ver nicely if he could work on his posts and he said something to the likes of "plz don't tell me its annoying thx"`
`22:10.35`	`JeffM2501`	`like I said, I don't see him lasting long`
`22:10.54`	`F687s`	`if you scare him off, he won't`
`22:11.05`	`JeffM2501`	`he won't be scared off`
`22:11.10`	`JeffM2501`	`I've talked to him about this many times`
`22:11.25`	`JeffM2501`	`he's arrogant`
`22:11.28`	`JeffM2501`	`and young`
`22:11.51`	`F687s`	`the FAQ thread (http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?t=891) should really be more visible, that seems to answer a lot of this.`
`22:11.55`	`JeffM2501`	`it will end with him loosing his ability to post`
`22:12.21`	`JeffM2501`	`it's at the top of news an announcements, we can't make it any more vissable`
`22:12.48`	`JeffM2501`	`people won't read it`
`22:12.52`	`JeffM2501`	`it's as simple as that`
`22:12.54`	`Winny`	`I was debating assembling some info from a bunch of threads and skimming it down, and putting on a page for people to read, but I bet 99% of people won't read it`
`22:13.13`	`JeffM2501`	`your typical 10 - 16 year old thinks they are gods gift to whatever they happen to be doing`
`22:13.16`	`JeffM2501`	`and just blast right into it`
`22:13.24`	`KTL`	`:D`
`22:14.10`	`Winny`	`haha..`
`22:14.11`	`Winny`	`Q) Do you think any of them would go out with me?`
`22:14.11`	`Winny`	`A) No.`
`22:14.36`	`Winny`	`never saw that one`
`22:15.09`	`F687s`	`ah, well, it's sad, though...`
`22:15.36`	`*** join/#bzflag eTangenT (n=chatzill@65.167.130.36)`
`22:16.14`	`F687s`	`not only are they really missing out, but they are also degrading the rest of the 10-16 age group.`
`22:16.55`	`Winny`	`That's one of the reasons I never mention my age anymore, I get lumped in with "them".`
`22:17.09`	`JeffM2501`	`honestly from what I've seen, the majority of the age group is down there with them`
`22:17.09`	`KTL`	`lol`
`22:17.22`	`JeffM2501`	`it's more rare for one to not be like that`
`22:17.24`	`KTL`	`ok this was the place where lol was forbidden iirc`
`22:18.31`	`KTL`	`but be happy they only a minority discovers irc`
`22:19.19`	`F687s`	`yes, but they will probably discover mIRC, and "lol" right in.`
`22:19.26`	`JeffM2501`	`not really`
`22:19.33`	`JeffM2501`	`IRC is not a common chat system`
`22:19.45`	`JeffM2501`	`even if we do have a link on every page to the webclient`
`22:19.52`	`JeffM2501`	`its' all about the IM and social networking now`
`22:20.03`	`JeffM2501`	`not archaic stuff like IRC and e-mail`
`22:20.44`	`F687s`	`AIM is the new IRC`
`22:21.03`	`JeffM2501`	`Constitution, just so you know, we don't discuss cheats in public`
`22:21.25`	`KTL`	`"For users under the age of 13 we need a Verifiable Parental Consent letter." ow american law i suppose`
`22:21.36`	`KTL`	`ask silver for his parental consent letter :D`
`22:21.51`	`JeffM2501`	`there is no evedence that he is under 13`
`22:22.01`	`JeffM2501`	`the board asked him his age`
`22:22.18`	`F687s`	`or just ($age+10) gets you through alright`
`22:24.02`	`JeffM2501`	`huh?`
`22:24.20`	`F687s`	`if you lie about your age (add 10 years), nobody will ever know`
`22:24.37`	`JeffM2501`	`if they lie we arn't as responsible`
`22:24.47`	`KTL`	`return this->age + 10;`
`22:25.11`	`JeffM2501`	`the entire point of the consent letter is not to prevent them from accessing our stuff with out permision, its' to allow us to store data for them`
`22:25.28`	`JeffM2501`	`by law we can't store personal data for people under 13 with the parrents concent.`
`22:25.40`	`Thumper_`	`without*`
`22:26.09`	`JeffM2501`	`if they lie to us, and we are sued, our defence goes back to the parent teling that that all the info we had was that the user was OVER 13 and they shoudl watch their child better`
`22:26.21`	`JeffM2501`	`it's all about preventing parents from suing us.`
`22:26.42`	`JeffM2501`	`not about protecting kids from content`
`22:26.49`	`F687s`	`yes, but do you really expect kids under 13 to send in a Verifiable Parental Consent letter?`
`22:26.56`	`JeffM2501`	`since our content is age approprite for all ( that's why anyone can read )`
`22:27.07`	`JeffM2501`	`F687s, dosn't matter, we have to ask`
`22:27.12`	`JeffM2501`	`and over 100 have`
`22:27.24`	`KTL`	`cool`
`22:27.37`	`JeffM2501`	`if we find out that they are under 13, ( they usualy say so in chat or a post ) then we have to delete all info we have for them`
`22:27.54`	`JeffM2501`	`if they lie, we are not at fault for breaking that law.`
`22:28.00`	`JeffM2501`	`it's as simple as that`
`22:28.30`	`AAA_Awright`	`JeffM2501: Except the court ruled that that is a constitutional violation, and struck it down I thought?`
`22:28.34`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not up to us to determine how effective that law would be`
`22:28.38`	`JeffM2501`	`AAA_Awright, that was not the same law`
`22:28.43`	`JeffM2501`	`there is COPPA and COPA`
`22:28.47`	`JeffM2501`	`COPA was struck down`
`22:28.58`	`JeffM2501`	`it was a law about protecting kids against content`
`22:29.05`	`F687s`	`I know _that_, and I'm not proposing you remove it, I'm just saying that you can't entirely trust it, which you have stated.`
`22:29.06`	`JeffM2501`	`we dont' fall under that law, never have`
`22:29.30`	`JeffM2501`	`F687s, that is a flaw of the law, we don't care.`
`22:29.45`	`JeffM2501`	`we don't implement it to protect anyone other then ourselves.`
`22:29.45`	`AAA_Awright`	`Yeah, and they stuck down the law requiring people identify themselves as 13 or above... I thought...`
`22:29.55`	`JeffM2501`	`I have not heard that`
`22:29.59`	`JeffM2501`	`only the first one`
`22:30.15`	`JeffM2501`	`as far as I know the full COPPA ( the one dealing with information privacy ) is still in effect`
`22:30.32`	`JeffM2501`	`if you have other info that states otherwise I'd like to read it.`
`22:31.15`	`JeffM2501`	`a number of sites have been sucsesfully procecuted under COPPA`
`22:32.06`	`JeffM2501`	`you are probably confusing`
`22:32.06`	`JeffM2501`	`<JeffM2501> I want the default currentplayers page to skip observers`
`22:32.07`	`JeffM2501`	`<JeffM2501> and have an option to show them`
`22:32.09`	`JeffM2501`	`oops`
`22:32.14`	`JeffM2501`	`bad paste :)`
`22:32.19`	`JeffM2501`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act`
`22:32.20`	`JeffM2501`	`with`
`22:32.25`	`JeffM2501`	`http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Online_Protection_Act`
`22:32.43`	`F687s`	`isn't the child protection already built into phpBB?`
`22:32.51`	`JeffM2501`	`yes`
`22:32.55`	`JeffM2501`	`but that is only part of it`
`22:33.14`	`JeffM2501`	`we have to have a system for keeping the permisiions`
`22:33.32`	`JeffM2501`	`basicly it dosn't totaly remove a meatsack based admin`
`22:33.40`	`JeffM2501`	`the board asks the age, etc.. but we have to do the rest`
`22:34.18`	`whodaman-`	`how often do you guys catch people that are under 13?`
`22:34.32`	`F687s`	`ah, when I've worked with phpBB; I saw that they had something like that, I just wondered what happens if you select it.`
`22:34.38`	`JeffM2501`	`AAA_Awright, the big difs are COPA is to protect kids against pr0n, COPPA is to protect them against evil corps that want there data.`
`22:34.55`	`JeffM2501`	`whodaman-, once a month or so`
`22:34.57`	`AAA_Awright`	`I am reading up in detail`
`22:35.15`	`whodaman-`	`JeffM2501, that often? wow`
`22:35.33`	`*** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-)`
`22:35.41`	`whodaman-`	`bleh`
`22:35.46`	`AAA_Awright`	`Do you have a system to accept parental permission?`
`22:35.49`	`JeffM2501`	`basicly since we take in and store data ( username, pasword, posts ) they need to be old enough to agree to our usage policy for our storage of that data, etc...`
`22:35.58`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah, tim handles that`
`22:36.10`	`JeffM2501`	`he accepts and keeps them on file`
`22:36.15`	`JeffM2501`	`since he's copyright holder.`
`22:36.38`	`JeffM2501`	`we feel we do enough due dillagance to hold up in court`
`22:36.56`	`JeffM2501`	`and we arn't an evil corp selling the kinds info or posts or works, etc..`
`22:37.00`	`Winny`	`who on earth would sue you anyways?`
`22:37.07`	`JeffM2501`	`a parrent could`
`22:37.16`	`Winny`	`"I want my son's bad grammar erased from that server!"`
`22:37.26`	`whodaman-`	`heh`
`22:37.36`	`JeffM2501`	`it's more of a "my son submited this thing, and now you say you own it"`
`22:37.44`	`whodaman-`	`Winny, there are some seriously weird and paranoid parents...`
`22:37.50`	`JeffM2501`	`the odds of us being sued are VERY VERY LOW`
`22:37.56`	`JeffM2501`	`but yeah somone could freak`
`22:38.13`	`Winny`	`a_meteorite-mom, whodaman-? :)`
`22:38.23`	`whodaman-`	`now, now`
`22:38.31`	`AAA_Awright`	`As far as I can tell, everything is in align with law. Anything that isn't could be argued with the due process clause.`
`22:38.37`	`F687s`	`however, the forum only protects against registered players`
`22:38.40`	`JeffM2501`	`we use it somewhat as a social barrier as well, as usualy kids under 12 are not social adept enough to "hang" with the community.`
`22:38.50`	`KTL`	`ok the faq thread is great fun really.`
`22:39.07`	`whodaman-`	`F687s, duh :P`
`22:39.09`	`JeffM2501`	`F687s, yes techincaly each server that does local registration also needs there own coppa system`
`22:39.15`	`JeffM2501`	`since they would store data.`
`22:39.32`	`JeffM2501`	`that's one of the advantages of doing global only registration, we take care of that for you.`
`22:39.40`	`AAA_Awright`	`Do you have a privacy policy posted?`
`22:39.50`	`JeffM2501`	`the wiki has one somehwere I think`
`22:39.52`	`JeffM2501`	`for all our sites`
`22:40.03`	`JeffM2501`	`that is a place where we are weak`
`22:40.09`	`JeffM2501`	`it needs to be more formalised`
`22:40.36`	`F687s`	`is there any chance an unregistered player could give out (probably personally identifiable) information, and the parents sue bzflag, or does that fall under some kind of anonymity?`
`22:40.46`	`TheRedBaron`	`what is considered private data?`
`22:41.14`	`Winny`	`F687s: that wouldn't stand up in court`
`22:41.21`	`KTL`	`as with all law, be better in explaining it then the opponents and you win`
`22:41.26`	`AAA_Awright`	`That is what Girls Life, Inc. was fined 100k for, no privacy policy on`
`22:41.30`	`Winny`	`that's like putting a virus on your computer on purpose and then suing M$ for a non-secure OS`
`22:41.32`	`AAA_Awright`	`file`
`22:41.33`	`TheRedBaron`	`First and last name is considered personal information?`
`22:41.40`	`AAA_Awright`	`Yes :/`
`22:41.50`	`JeffM2501`	`F687s, where would they give that out? in game?`
`22:42.10`	`F687s`	`probably`
`22:42.22`	`*** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-069-071.ewe-ip-backbone.de)`
`22:42.28`	`JeffM2501`	`then that is between the parrent and the server owners and players of that game`
`22:42.32`	`JeffM2501`	`basicly who ever stored it`
`22:42.47`	`JeffM2501`	`the project itself is not responsible for the uses of it's software`
`22:43.05`	`JeffM2501`	`just like you can't sue firefox for what a kid may see on a web page`
`22:43.12`	`JeffM2501`	`that's all between the site owner and the parrent`
`22:43.58`	`JeffM2501`	`they can't submit anything for storage to bzbb with out registering, etc.. so we are decently protected.`
`22:44.06`	`JeffM2501`	`same goes for SF, etc..`
`22:44.23`	`TheRedBaron`	`JeffM2501: is bzbb really considered "Commercial" or an online service?`
`22:44.30`	`TheRedBaron`	`i'm reading: http://www.ftc.gov/ogc/coppa1.htm`
`22:44.36`	`JeffM2501`	`it is an online service`
`22:44.58`	`JeffM2501`	`that would be another defense, our use of the data is harmless`
`22:45.34`	`TheRedBaron`	`well seeing as bzbb provides global identification services for bzflag... but prior to that, it would be considered an online service?`
`22:45.36`	`JeffM2501`	`we offer bzbb, list server, images, etc.. as a free online service.`
`22:45.43`	`F687s`	`so, the only way for a server owner to truly be safe is to only allow verified players?`
`22:45.52`	`JeffM2501`	`sure, it's online, and we provide some services`
`22:45.58`	`JeffM2501`	`no mater how lame they are (PMs )`
`22:46.07`	`TheRedBaron`	`JeffM2501: how is the list server and the forums (prior to global reg) related?`
`22:46.12`	`JeffM2501`	`F687s, in the strictest sense of the law`
`22:46.12`	`TheRedBaron`	`other then being on the same machine`
`22:46.20`	`JeffM2501`	`they arn't`
`22:46.40`	`JeffM2501`	`phpbb wasn't an offfical part of the project untill global reg`
`22:46.44`	`*** join/#bzflag ahs3 (n=ahs3-@adsl-065-005-193-158.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net)`
`22:46.47`	`JeffM2501`	`so our use of coppa came WITH that link`
`22:46.55`	`TheRedBaron`	`ah`
`22:47.16`	`TheRedBaron`	`I thought phpbb had the coppa thing since it went up.`
`22:47.20`	`JeffM2501`	`before that bzbb was run by private induivual`
`22:47.25`	`JeffM2501`	`sure phpbb did`
`22:47.29`	`JeffM2501`	`but I meant he PROJECTS use of it`
`22:47.47`	`JeffM2501`	`the project itself had no COPPA filing system, etc.. untill the link of bzbb to list server`
`22:48.02`	`JeffM2501`	`COPPA compliance is MORE then just what phpbb does for you`
`22:48.09`	`JeffM2501`	`that's just the front end.`
`22:48.27`	`JeffM2501`	`now before that we complied with COPPA to be safe, as individuals.`
`22:49.32`	`JeffM2501`	`we promote a video game targetet at all age groups, so that's what mostly gets us into the "for kids" thing`
`22:49.40`	`JeffM2501`	`and it's better safe then sorry.`
`22:49.56`	`JeffM2501`	`it would suck for one zealoutus parrent to take down the project.`
`22:50.03`	`TheRedBaron`	`I still find it ambiguious, how just a forum constitutes itself as an online service. and i'm not just referring to phpbb`
`22:50.15`	`JeffM2501`	`it's online`
`22:50.19`	`L4m3r`	`JeffM2501, wouldn't the GPL make that difficult?`
`22:50.21`	`JeffM2501`	`and it provides service.`
`22:50.27`	`JeffM2501`	`L4m3r, yes it would`
`22:50.29`	`TheRedBaron`	`but the principle of ass-covering usually makes sense`
`22:50.33`	`L4m3r`	`that "not fit for any particular purpose" clause?`
`22:50.39`	`JeffM2501`	`but it could still make it a big problem to keep it going, harassment, etc..`
`22:50.48`	`TheRedBaron`	`JeffM2501: I wish they had a definition of what "online service" is`
`22:50.54`	`JeffM2501`	`they don't for a reason`
`22:50.58`	`JeffM2501`	`so it can be fluid ;)`
`22:51.18`	`JeffM2501`	`it all comes down to how mad a parent gets, and how much they can convivncve a DA of it.`
`22:51.22`	`TheRedBaron`	`or ambiguious :P`
`22:51.52`	`JeffM2501`	`basicly any system that is online and does SOMETHING for it's users is a service`
`22:52.04`	`JeffM2501`	`storing and retreving user posts, is a service`
`22:52.16`	`JeffM2501`	`just having a flat display web page, is not`
`22:52.25`	`JeffM2501`	`since it just returns data`
`22:52.34`	`JeffM2501`	`it dosn't do anything based on input`
`22:52.50`	`TheRedBaron`	`so basically, a blog that requires users to login to post, is an online service...`
`22:53.00`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`22:53.05`	`JeffM2501`	`since it's providing a service`
`22:53.08`	`JeffM2501`	`and data is stored`
`22:53.08`	`TheRedBaron`	`even if you have your own hosting.`
`22:53.14`	`TheRedBaron`	`geeze`
`22:53.26`	`JeffM2501`	`if you store data for users, your probably service based :)`
`22:53.35`	`JeffM2501`	`since you are storing that data to do somethign with it.`
`22:53.44`	`TheRedBaron`	`no, its more a service to me!`
`22:53.47`	`TheRedBaron`	`so i can weed out spam :)`
`22:54.01`	`JeffM2501`	`notice it didn't say who the service had to be for`
`22:54.07`	`TheRedBaron`	`oh yea, i did`
`22:54.09`	`JeffM2501`	`just that it WAS a service`
`22:54.38`	`JeffM2501`	`if you collect info for kids under 13, and can be show to be something that is targetd for them, you have to do coppa`
`22:54.47`	`JeffM2501`	`if your site says "no kids under 13, etc.. "`
`22:54.51`	`JeffM2501`	`then you don't`
`22:54.58`	`JeffM2501`	`cus your specificly telling them not to go there.`
`22:55.14`	`JeffM2501`	`the common phpbb mod is to just disallow users under 13`
`22:55.22`	`JeffM2501`	`it complies with the law, and means you don't have to store.`
`22:55.30`	`JeffM2501`	`we COULD go that way`
`22:55.40`	`JeffM2501`	`but we don't since Tim is willing to manage the permisions.`
`22:57.05`	`TheRedBaron`	`hrm`
`22:57.55`	`*** join/#bzflag Djpenguin (n=David@adsl-216-102-90-233.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)`
`22:58.05`	`JeffM2501`	`but in the end, compliance with the law is just about butt covering, just like any law`
`22:58.25`	`JeffM2501`	`I don't belive it's a criminal law, but a civil one, so it's just about fines and money.`
`23:04.48`	`F687s`	`and in today's world, we need it ;-)`
`23:17.36`	`whodaman-`	`BZBB down?`
`23:18.44`	`whodaman-`	`ahhh there it goes`
`23:18.46`	`whodaman-`	`nevermind`
`23:27.56`	`L4m3r`	`what the fuck?!`
`23:28.05`	`L4m3r`	`how did I get 21/70 on the math final?!`
`23:28.26`	`L4m3r`	`jesus christ`
`23:29.07`	`L4m3r`	`er, whoa`
`23:29.09`	`L4m3r`	`~ww`
`23:29.10`	`ibot`	`Sucker.`
`23:29.12`	`Winny`	`lol`
`23:29.14`	`Winny`	`nice :p`
`23:29.14`	`L4m3r`	`my bad`
`23:29.52`	`Winny`	`nice @ the wrong window... not the test :/`
`23:30.27`	`L4m3r`	`uuuugh`
`23:32.45`	`*** join/#bzflag jwir3 (n=jwir3@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)`
`23:33.04`	`*** join/#bzflag sigonasr2 (i=sigonasr@ip72-200-88-154.tc.ph.cox.net)`
`23:34.50`	`F687s`	`...`
`23:36.30`	`Erroneous`	`L4m3r: I got 29/75 on one final...'course it was an A-...`
`23:37.48`	`*** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone)`
`23:37.48`	`*** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ`
`23:37.51`	`L4m3r`	`median was 50 :\|`
`23:46.03`	`Erroneous`	`ouch`
`23:47.36`	`a_meteorite`	`interesting stuff there about COPPA`
`23:48.10`	`Winny`	`you actually read that`
`23:49.15`	`a_meteorite`	`I know none of you are a lawyer, but say I hooked up with global reg in order to sign up at BZFX... what if someone sued me, could I say "the BZBB requires you to be 13, and a BZBB account is required to sign up at BZFX"?`
`23:49.47`	`JeffM2501`	`a_meteorite, you don't store the data`
`23:49.54`	`JeffM2501`	`so they can not sue you`
`23:49.58`	`a_meteorite`	`there would be forums and stuff, so yeah`
`23:50.03`	`JeffM2501`	`it's not a USE thing`
`23:50.07`	`JeffM2501`	`it's a storage things`
`23:50.23`	`a_meteorite`	`I mean the online portion of BZFX to sign up for extra services, like forums`
`23:50.34`	`JeffM2501`	`do you store personal data?`
`23:50.42`	`a_meteorite`	`I guess I could just say "you must be 13 or over to sign up" just to waive all liability..`
`23:50.45`	`a_meteorite`	`email`
`23:51.05`	`JeffM2501`	`if it's data you store, then your on your own with it`
`23:51.10`	`JeffM2501`	`and how you handle it is your deal`
`23:51.35`	`a_meteorite`	`meh, I better read up on this law`
`23:51.38`	`a_meteorite`	`gotta love our legal system`
`23:51.48`	`JeffM2501`	`tho, your under 18 right?`
`23:51.52`	`a_meteorite`	`17`
`23:51.56`	`JeffM2501`	`so yes`
`23:51.59`	`JeffM2501`	`they would sue your parents`
`23:52.03`	`JeffM2501`	`not you`
`23:52.08`	`JeffM2501`	`they are responsible for your actions`
`23:52.10`	`a_meteorite`	`that'd still be disaster`
`23:52.11`	`Winny`	`and your mom would love that, a_meteorite :p`
`23:52.33`	`a_meteorite`	`I wonder how anyone would find me? Subpoena my ISP?`
`23:52.41`	`a_meteorite`	`Cause I use an alias for all online activities`
`23:52.47`	`JeffM2501`	`law enformcement can find you in a hearbeat`
`23:52.52`	`a_meteorite`	`Woot`
`23:53.01`	`Winny`	`yeah`
`23:53.03`	`JeffM2501`	`your ISP would tell them the subscriber address`
`23:53.06`	`JeffM2501`	`and theyd' call you`
`23:53.10`	`JeffM2501`	`be as simple as that`
`23:53.17`	`Winny`	`You've never watched CSI?`
`23:53.26`	`a_meteorite`	`Hmmm, I wonder since I log chat and stuff... couldn't I technically be sued?`
`23:53.29`	`Winny`	`They can put your IP into a computer and a fancy map shows them where to go! ;)`
`23:53.34`	`a_meteorite`	`Cause I store the chats`
`23:53.45`	`JeffM2501`	`yeah`
`23:53.51`	`JeffM2501`	`tho the likelyhood of it is LOW`
`23:53.56`	`a_meteorite`	`Very`
`23:53.56`	`JeffM2501`	`if you don't do anything with it`
`23:54.06`	`JeffM2501`	`techincaly anyone can try to sue you for anything`
`23:54.14`	`JeffM2501`	`it's all about defense`
`23:54.21`	`a_meteorite`	`Right, if you can prove it (which isn't that hard in civil court compared to criminal)`
`23:54.39`	`JeffM2501`	`if it was a parent, they'd have to prove damage`
`23:54.58`	`JeffM2501`	`if it was a goverment agency, they don't have to prove anything, but you can counter sue the agency`
`23:55.14`	`a_meteorite`	`I should probably just stick something in my server message "All actions on this server is logged, if you are under 13, you are not allowed to play here due to the COPPA law."`
`23:55.23`	`a_meteorite`	`That way I can just cover my butt`
`23:55.45`	`JeffM2501`	`well saying it's all logged is a good thing anyway`
`23:55.47`	`JeffM2501`	`regardless`
`23:55.50`	`a_meteorite`	`yeah`
`23:56.07`	`JeffM2501`	`and you want to say "by playing here you are agreeing that you are 13 or over, if not disconect now"`
`23:56.32`	`a_meteorite`	`ahhh`
`23:56.39`	`JeffM2501`	`it's an agreement thing`
`23:56.42`	`a_meteorite`	`right`
`23:56.43`	`*** join/#bzflag praetorian (n=praetori@124-168-148-21.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`23:56.48`	`JeffM2501`	`"not allowed" is not a good term`
`23:56.59`	`JeffM2501`	`because if that was true, you'd disallow them`
`23:57.06`	`JeffM2501`	`but you don't so that allows them`
`23:57.13`	`a_meteorite`	`I see`
`23:57.50`	`JeffM2501`	`you should also tell them if they don't want to be logged to disconnect`
`23:59.30`	`a_meteorite`	`"All actions on this server are logged. By playing here, you are agreeing to allowing all your actions to be logged and reviewed by other people, if you do not agree, disconnect from this server now.`
`23:59.30`	`a_meteorite`	`By playing here you are agreeing that you are 13 or over, if not, disconnect from this server now. The reason for this is because of the COPPA law."`
`23:59.34`	`a_meteorite`	`Sounds pretty good`
`23:59.49`	`JeffM2501`	`it's your server`
`23:59.53`	`a_meteorite`	`of course`
`23:59.57`	`JeffM2501`	`extra wordy for my tastes`

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