| 00:00.17 | *** join/#bzflag Kyleve (n=kyleve@gateway/web/cgi-irc/bzflagr.net/x-e1a003ddc8da50ec) |
| 00:01.19 | *** join/#bzflag Kyleve (n=kyleve@server1.fairserve.net) |
| 00:01.44 | Constitution | yay |
| 00:01.52 | awilcox | yay? |
| 00:02.10 | *** join/#bzflag Kyleve (n=kyleve@unaffiliated/winny) |
| 00:02.15 | Winny | yay |
| 00:02.17 | Winny | :D |
| 00:02.19 | awilcox | yay?! |
| 00:02.20 | spldart | yay |
| 00:02.21 | Winny | dee server iz up |
| 00:02.22 | Constitution | :) |
| 00:02.25 | awilcox | yay |
| 00:02.31 | Winny | ~Constitution++ |
| 00:02.38 | awilcox | ~Intel++ |
| 00:02.41 | spldart | OH! it's about that time isn't it.. |
| 00:02.43 | Winny | ~Constitution++ |
| 00:02.50 | Constitution | :) |
| 00:02.56 | awilcox | spldart: about time for what? |
| 00:03.07 | Winny | cheese |
| 00:03.42 | Winny | pft |
| 00:03.48 | Winny | they released the 9600GT yesterday |
| 00:03.51 | Winny | :D |
| 00:04.15 | awilcox | nice, my computer was current for...uh...I got it on Monday |
| 00:04.19 | Winny | lol |
| 00:04.21 | awilcox | my computer was current for all of three days |
| 00:04.25 | awilcox | \o/ |
| 00:04.31 | Winny | such is the nature of computing |
| 00:04.32 | awilcox | hey it's something, I'm normally *NEVER* current |
| 00:04.42 | JeffM | awilcox, the 8600 was never current, it was made as a midrange |
| 00:04.47 | awilcox | and quad-core, that will be current for a while :) |
| 00:04.59 | awilcox | JeffM: Bah, it was current for midrange |
| 00:05.00 | JeffM | 6600? |
| 00:05.10 | JeffM | still is current for midrange then |
| 00:05.16 | awilcox | ohh yay! |
| 00:05.17 | spldart | Ah.. got mine online |
| 00:05.19 | awilcox | JeffM: E5405 |
| 00:05.48 | awilcox | the sSpec number is SLAP2 |
| 00:05.48 | spldart | closing time @ my shop... bring my bzfs online |
| 00:06.25 | spldart | lag should reduce in 1:30 |
| 00:06.52 | spldart | I have a throttled btdownloadcurses and a throttled wget running @ the same time |
| 00:07.05 | spldart | 1hr 30min |
| 00:07.37 | Winny | wget thepiratebay.org? :p |
| 00:23.36 | spldart | heh |
| 00:25.34 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@213.219.144.106.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
| 00:35.44 | *** join/#bzflag macsforme (n=chatzill@unaffiliated/macsforme) |
| 00:40.02 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=const@server1.fairserve.net) |
| 00:45.22 | *** join/#bzflag Epyon (n=Epyon@90-156-93-82.magma-net.pl) |
| 00:45.57 | JeffM | awilcox, ahh, a 2 giger, slower then a q6600 |
| 00:47.13 | awilcox | JeffM: yes, but I'm not looking for CPU frequency speed here. |
| 00:47.24 | JeffM | what speed ram did you put in it? |
| 00:56.49 | CBG | An 8600 will play BZ with full settings no problems at all, assuming the system is balanced (ie, you didn't do something stupid like an 8600 GPU and 16bits of VRAM ;) ). |
| 00:57.01 | Winny | hehe |
| 00:57.25 | Suspect | CBG: Mine doesn't |
| 00:57.45 | Suspect | CBG: Haven't been playing BZ much because it's really choppy in some areas |
| 00:57.47 | Suspect | Not sure why :/ |
| 00:57.49 | CBG | You have a machine with an 8600 that doesn't run BZ? |
| 00:57.57 | CBG | What are your other specs? |
| 00:58.01 | Suspect | <OS> WinXP Professional 5.1 Service Pack 2 (Build #2600) <CPU> AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 3800+, 2.01 GHz <VIDEO> nVidia GeForce 8600 GTS on Plug and Play Monitor @ 1680x1050x32bpp 60Hz <SOUND> Realtek AC97 Audio <MEMLOAD> 614/2047 MB <HD> [C:Main Storage] 219.25/298.08 GB [F:Star Trek] 10.48/74.50 GB <NET> NVIDIA nForce Networking Controller - Packet Scheduler Miniport @ 100.0 Mbps (Rec: 347.74MB Sent: 123.49MB) |
| 00:58.11 | CBG | (Not that I'm an expert after building one PC :P ) |
| 00:58.18 | Suspect | This was the first PC I built :P |
| 00:58.57 | CBG | Same here. Also the first I ever owned. The first I ever plugged in. The first I ever had in my room. The first I ever looked inside of... |
| 00:59.01 | Suspect | Ah |
| 00:59.04 | Suspect | I've had.. like |
| 00:59.08 | Suspect | 2 PCs before this one |
| 00:59.13 | Suspect | 3 if you include the family PC I started on |
| 00:59.14 | CBG | I kinda jumped in the deep end. Fun. |
| 00:59.22 | CBG | "What's a mobo again?" |
| 00:59.28 | Suspect | :P |
| 00:59.33 | Winny | hehe |
| 00:59.53 | Suspect | But yeah.. dunno why BZFlag is choppy in some areas.. like... stuttery |
| 00:59.59 | CBG | Winny: you broke or are you at a nightclub? |
| 01:00.09 | CBG | Jitter, Suspect? |
| 01:00.22 | Suspect | Not sure how to explain it :P |
| 01:00.23 | Winny | CBG: ?? |
| 01:00.29 | Suspect | It's just not smooth |
| 01:01.14 | CBG | "hehe"... "hehe"... :P Sounds like a DJ in Ibiza or some similar hell hole is "scratching"(?) you |
| 01:01.28 | Suspect | I bet awilcox bought the same card I have O_O |
| 01:01.41 | Suspect | XFX GeForce 8600 GTS 256MB GDDR3 PCI express.. off Newegg |
| 01:01.41 | Suspect | :P |
| 01:02.04 | CBG | Suspect: What sort of FPS is it running at and have you looked at lagstats while playing? |
| 01:02.06 | CBG | a 256MB GTS? |
| 01:02.16 | Suspect | I wish I had bought something better |
| 01:02.25 | CBG | GDDR2 though. I'm a cheapskate (a.k.a. student). |
| 01:02.37 | Suspect | I'm 16.. and I only get money around Christmas/Bday |
| 01:02.37 | Suspect | :P |
| 01:02.44 | Suspect | So I get what I can |
| 01:02.53 | CBG | Mine is perfectly adequate for a couple years, then I'll get an 8800 or the next big thing. |
| 01:02.59 | Suspect | And I'm not sure how to look at the FPS/lagstats |
| 01:02.59 | Suspect | :P |
| 01:03.20 | Suspect | My next thing is I want to get either SLI or a new top of the line video card |
| 01:03.25 | Suspect | And then a quad core processor |
| 01:03.39 | Winny | Ill be getting a quad core system and SLI this summer |
| 01:03.46 | Winny | waiting for the 9800GTs |
| 01:03.53 | Suspect | But.. people keep telling me I have to move to Vista if I want to continue playing all the new games |
| 01:03.58 | Suspect | :/ |
| 01:04.00 | CBG | Yeah, I remember that. If you don't go "out" (into the real world) a lot, try getting a job someplace on saturdays. They're alsways looking for staff for weekends and one or two shifts a week isn't all that hard. And the cash is sweet. :) |
| 01:04.01 | Suspect | Not something I want to do :P |
| 01:04.03 | Winny | Vista isn't that bad |
| 01:04.10 | Suspect | >_< |
| 01:04.10 | Winny | better then XP, imo. |
| 01:04.20 | Suspect | I have XP fine tuned the way I like it :P |
| 01:04.28 | CBG | Anytime I want something... I just buy it. Money rules. |
| 01:04.35 | Suspect | Yeah :/ wish I had money :P |
| 01:04.39 | Suspect | This summer.. I'll get a job |
| 01:04.48 | CBG | You do not NEED Vista for gaming. |
| 01:04.55 | Suspect | You do for anything DX10 |
| 01:05.00 | Winny | the wow starts now |
| 01:05.08 | CBG | Suspect: name some. |
| 01:05.11 | Winny | won strats wow eht |
| 01:05.14 | Suspect | Well not now |
| 01:05.17 | Suspect | But soon |
| 01:05.19 | Suspect | I'm sure |
| 01:05.21 | CBG | Right. ;) |
| 01:05.47 | CBG | Any DX10 only games coming out this year that you know you will buy? |
| 01:06.02 | Winny | Crysi.. oh wait |
| 01:06.11 | CBG | That's a game? |
| 01:07.40 | Suspect | CBG: No |
| 01:07.47 | Suspect | CBG: lol |
| 01:08.04 | Constitution | it almost rivals bzflag |
| 01:08.13 | Suspect | Haha |
| 01:08.18 | Winny | hehe |
| 01:08.18 | CBG | Constitution: nah, not even close. |
| 01:08.27 | CBG | I tell you what does come close though: TF2. |
| 01:08.33 | CBG | Now _that's_ a game. |
| 01:08.36 | Suspect | I like games with pretty graphics and good gameplay |
| 01:08.44 | Suspect | Bz has both |
| 01:08.53 | Suspect | Pretty graphics in it's own way |
| 01:08.54 | Suspect | :P |
| 01:08.57 | Winny | :p |
| 01:09.05 | CBG | Right. ... lol |
| 01:09.08 | Suspect | xP |
| 01:09.17 | Suspect | And yeah TF2 is fun |
| 01:09.22 | Suspect | Very fun O_O |
| 01:09.39 | CBG | Give TF2 a whirl for "interesting graphics". It looks really fantastic yet runs on the same engine as HL2 and CS:S which looks tame in comparison. |
| 01:10.25 | CBG | Sometimes... too much fun. ;) |
| 01:10.36 | CBG | Add me on Steam, Suspect: CannonBallGuy |
| 01:11.27 | Suspect | Sure, gimme a few mins though brb-ing |
| 01:12.04 | CBG | Well, no rush. I'm off to bed in a minute anyway. |
| 01:14.02 | *** join/#bzflag Kyleve (n=kyleve@unaffiliated/winny) |
| 01:21.35 | awilcox | Suspect/CBG: I have an eVGA GeForce 8600 GTS 512MB GDDR3 PCI-e x16 off Newegg |
| 01:22.04 | CBG | How much? |
| 01:22.36 | awilcox | um |
| 01:23.09 | awilcox | Newegg products I bought: |
| 01:23.15 | awilcox | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130286 |
| 01:23.19 | awilcox | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820161178 |
| 01:23.29 | awilcox | 169.99$ for the card |
| 01:23.40 | JeffM | oh good lord, PC5300? |
| 01:23.44 | awilcox | 168.99$ for 4GB of ECC FBDIMM DDR2 667 |
| 01:23.56 | awilcox | JeffM: that's bad? |
| 01:24.00 | JeffM | slow |
| 01:24.11 | awilcox | well this board only supports 533 or 667 |
| 01:24.18 | JeffM | and you put that CPU in it? |
| 01:24.29 | JeffM | the only advantage that has over the core 2 is the FSB |
| 01:24.36 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=khazhy@pool-96-237-103-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 01:24.36 | JeffM | wow |
| 01:24.58 | JeffM | I think my laptop is faster then that will be |
| 01:25.10 | a_meteorite | it's because of the FBDIMM |
| 01:25.35 | awilcox | well sorry for not living up to your standards. I'm happy with what I have |
| 01:25.40 | JeffM | ok |
| 01:25.41 | a_meteorite | 667 should be "fast enough" |
| 01:25.46 | JeffM | just saying it can run faster |
| 01:25.57 | JeffM | PC6400 is basicly the standard now |
| 01:26.03 | awilcox | JeffM: 20 second boot time is fast enough for me :) |
| 01:26.03 | JeffM | 800mhz |
| 01:26.10 | JeffM | and that CPU can run that speed |
| 01:26.15 | a_meteorite | awilcox: 20 seconds? that's slow for what kind of power you got... |
| 01:26.20 | a_meteorite | must be an HD bottleneck |
| 01:26.27 | Gnurdux | awilcox, 4gb is like 100 bucks |
| 01:26.33 | JeffM | less |
| 01:26.43 | a_meteorite | Gnurdux: FBDIMM is always more expensive, MUCH more expensive |
| 01:26.48 | JeffM | I'm going to get 4 gigs of PC5300 for my laptop for 80$ |
| 01:26.50 | a_meteorite | it's like buying ECC but even worse |
| 01:27.00 | awilcox | a_met: that's including POST |
| 01:27.03 | JeffM | not sure why he needs buffered, but whatever |
| 01:27.12 | Gnurdux | oh |
| 01:27.16 | delusional_ | what does the variable _avenueSize do? |
| 01:27.18 | Gnurdux | this is buffered ram |
| 01:27.19 | JeffM | awilcox, fastboot ;) |
| 01:27.22 | Gnurdux | this is for a server? |
| 01:27.25 | awilcox | JeffM :) |
| 01:27.28 | a_meteorite | Gnurdux: yes |
| 01:27.32 | awilcox | Gnurdux: yes |
| 01:28.03 | a_meteorite | FBDIMM is fully buffered, that's where the FB part comes in :) |
| 01:28.09 | awilcox | JeffM: also, when your _new_ laptop is maxed out at 4 (or even 8) gigs of PC6400 or whatever, I'll be upgrading to 32GB in mine... |
| 01:28.11 | JeffM | delusional_, where do you see that? |
| 01:28.20 | delusional_ | in /set |
| 01:28.23 | a_meteorite | awilcox: wow, how many slots you got? |
| 01:28.28 | awilcox | a_meteorite: 8 |
| 01:28.43 | a_meteorite | you'd need to get 4GB modules, I don't even want to know how expensive that is |
| 01:28.46 | delusional_ | it's 2.0* _boxBase |
| 01:28.50 | JeffM | awilcox, suuuurrrreeeeee you will ;) cus by then DDR2 will be hella spensive |
| 01:28.57 | awilcox | a_met: exactly why I have only 2GB * 2 :p |
| 01:29.00 | a_meteorite | DDR3 will be out and will kick it's butt |
| 01:29.01 | JeffM | delusional_, IIRC it's for CTF map random generation. |
| 01:29.04 | awilcox | a_met: heh |
| 01:29.07 | awilcox | er, JeffM: heh rather |
| 01:29.08 | JeffM | a_meteorite, ddr3 is out |
| 01:29.09 | JeffM | and it dosn't |
| 01:29.15 | a_meteorite | JeffM: yeah, but it's expensive and high latency |
| 01:29.16 | delusional_ | ahhh, cool jeff |
| 01:29.26 | JeffM | a_meteorite, it ain't going to get any less latent ;) |
| 01:29.28 | a_meteorite | it'll get better |
| 01:29.38 | JeffM | it'll get cheaper sure |
| 01:29.44 | JeffM | as it does DDR2 will go up |
| 01:29.54 | JeffM | thats why I'm geting my 4 gigs of ddr2 now while it's cheap |
| 01:29.55 | a_meteorite | yup, just like with DDR |
| 01:30.25 | JeffM | awilcox, watch the proces on ram, and when it hits a low, buy more, cus it's at the end of it's life. |
| 01:30.29 | JeffM | prices even |
| 01:30.30 | CBG | DDR2 will go up in price when it get's old? |
| 01:30.34 | JeffM | yeah |
| 01:30.39 | a_meteorite | that's the way RAM works |
| 01:30.44 | CBG | Why? |
| 01:30.47 | JeffM | as people buy less, they make less |
| 01:30.49 | a_meteorite | supply and demand |
| 01:31.01 | awilcox | yes |
| 01:31.03 | a_meteorite | it costs more per unit to make less |
| 01:31.04 | JeffM | so they loose the quantiy of scale |
| 01:31.05 | CBG | They stop mking DDR2 before people start buying DDR3? |
| 01:31.14 | a_meteorite | they won't stop |
| 01:31.17 | a_meteorite | they just make less |
| 01:31.23 | JeffM | CBG, CPUs and motherboards upgrade to ddr3 |
| 01:31.25 | CBG | I'm familiar with basic economics, a_meteorite. |
| 01:31.28 | JeffM | new systems ship with DDR3 |
| 01:31.34 | JeffM | so people buy less DDR2 |
| 01:31.36 | JeffM | etc.. |
| 01:31.52 | a_meteorite | I'd only say to get a DDR3 motherboard now for future compatibility, cause it's very expensive to buy DDR3 |
| 01:31.54 | JeffM | by next year new tech mobos will be all DDR3 |
| 01:32.04 | CBG | Exactly. So why does it go UP in price when demand is falling? |
| 01:32.06 | CBG | That is illogical. |
| 01:32.23 | JeffM | CBG, because the factories won't be making a billion units |
| 01:32.25 | a_meteorite | economies of scale |
| 01:32.26 | JeffM | they will do small runs |
| 01:32.43 | JeffM | and they can't amertise the cost from the run over a large number of units, |
| 01:32.54 | CBG | But they'll sell even less.. |
| 01:33.00 | JeffM | such as say it costs 100$ to build the dies for ram, regardless of type |
| 01:33.08 | awilcox | CBG: exactly why they don't make 486s anymore :P |
| 01:33.15 | JeffM | if you make 10 chips with that, you have to add 10$ to the price of each chip |
| 01:33.32 | JeffM | but if you make 1000 chips, you only add 0.10$ to each chip |
| 01:33.39 | JeffM | there are fixed costs with manufacturing |
| 01:34.02 | JeffM | it also depends on compettion |
| 01:34.18 | JeffM | if all the factorys are doing DDR2 they have to compete, and they drive the price down |
| 01:34.34 | JeffM | but if only one factory is doing ddr2, then that factory can basicly set the price. |
| 01:34.39 | CBG | [1:31am] <CBG> I'm familiar with basic economics. |
| 01:34.39 | JeffM | since there isn't anywhere else to get it. |
| 01:34.53 | JeffM | then you should know why it goes up ;) |
| 01:35.00 | CBG | Which is why I find it odd that businesses would charge more for a product that is in LESS DEMAND. |
| 01:35.04 | JeffM | go price out a gig od DDR ram |
| 01:35.06 | CBG | Regardless of cosr. |
| 01:35.10 | JeffM | because they CAN |
| 01:35.12 | CBG | cost* |
| 01:35.16 | JeffM | that's the core reason |
| 01:35.26 | JeffM | they will charge as much as people will pay |
| 01:35.39 | JeffM | that is basic economics :) |
| 01:35.46 | JeffM | they ain't making ram to be nice :) |
| 01:36.10 | CBG | When demand decreases, so does the price with which consumers are happy to pay. |
| 01:36.11 | JeffM | and it's not like there is still a huge stockpile of DDR2 that they are pulling from(Like how old CPUs go for cheap) |
| 01:36.28 | JeffM | CBG, that isn't always true |
| 01:36.30 | a_meteorite | CBG: in computer electronics, usually the reverse is true |
| 01:36.42 | a_meteorite | at least in my small life that is many times what it seems to be |
| 01:36.58 | JeffM | competition tends to drive the proces for things that are in high demand DOWN, if the MFG can keep up |
| 01:37.04 | CBG | Well, funnily enough, my education covered the real world... :P |
| 01:37.20 | a_meteorite | I took economics just like you CBG |
| 01:37.21 | JeffM | CBG, apperantly not, cus this is the real world |
| 01:37.24 | awilcox | my board specs, if you care -> http://www.directron.com/s5000xvnsatar.html |
| 01:37.50 | a_meteorite | awilcox: is the RAID on that real hardware RAID? |
| 01:37.57 | JeffM | thats why he got it |
| 01:38.06 | awilcox | :D |
| 01:38.10 | a_meteorite | nice, that makes it worth it considering some RAID cards can be $200+ |
| 01:38.20 | a_meteorite | for 6 SATA |
| 01:39.22 | a_meteorite | I'd think though the big advantage with a PCI-E card is the cache, but that's it. But the motherboard RAID might have it, I just don't know about it... |
| 01:39.45 | a_meteorite | awilcox: are you running RAID currently or is that a future thing you wanna do? |
| 01:39.58 | awilcox | future thing |
| 01:40.09 | awilcox | the other thing I got this for (besides ddr2>_<) future upgradability |
| 01:40.13 | awilcox | and dang does it have it. |
| 01:40.27 | a_meteorite | server boards seem to be good at that ;) |
| 01:40.28 | awilcox | Intel guy told me it would probably have support for all 45nm processors |
| 01:40.32 | JeffM | well for external stuff, not upgrade the CPU, or the ram |
| 01:40.47 | JeffM | it may support the CPUs but it'll downclock the FSB |
| 01:40.50 | awilcox | JeffM: the CPU is quite upgradeable. |
| 01:40.56 | a_meteorite | double the cores real easily |
| 01:40.56 | JeffM | not on that bus ;) |
| 01:41.22 | awilcox | JeffM: well they have 3.0GHz Xeons too, but I didn't opt for that one (950$...sticker shock) |
| 01:41.38 | a_meteorite | awilcox: 3GHz quad? nice.. |
| 01:41.43 | JeffM | yeah, and you woudn't get much advantage ouf them for that price |
| 01:41.48 | JeffM | so it's good you didn't |
| 01:42.10 | JeffM | you will hit the wall of diminishing returns at some point due to the bus and ram, is all I'm saying |
| 01:42.17 | awilcox | JeffM: exactly, the E5405 is "where it's at" for $ per MHz, etc |
| 01:42.22 | JeffM | yep |
| 01:42.37 | awilcox | and in addition to that, it has a second slot :P |
| 01:42.37 | JeffM | I just hope you use eveything you have purchased ;) |
| 01:42.50 | awilcox | I plan on it :D |
| 01:42.54 | JeffM | we all do |
| 01:42.57 | JeffM | time will tell |
| 01:43.00 | awilcox | yeah. |
| 01:43.55 | a_meteorite | your best CPU upgrade option is probably to way 5 years, give or take, and nab another identical one off eBay, or a retailer if they're still cheap |
| 01:44.08 | a_meteorite | for a CPU that old it will definitely be cheaper than they are now |
| 01:44.13 | awilcox | a_met: heh, secretly that's my plan :p |
| 01:44.16 | JeffM | not that long |
| 01:44.16 | JeffM | no |
| 01:44.19 | JeffM | you wait a year |
| 01:44.23 | JeffM | when the next big thing hits |
| 01:44.27 | awilcox | well, wait 2 years or so and nab the 3GHz |
| 01:44.31 | JeffM | and those tank on an inventory dump |
| 01:44.33 | a_meteorite | or yeah, give or take |
| 01:44.34 | awilcox | prolly be the same as the 2GHz now :P |
| 01:44.40 | JeffM | server CPUs go for a preimum |
| 01:44.47 | JeffM | since people NEED them for biz stuff |
| 01:44.48 | a_meteorite | it's hard to say when the right time is the right time for computer stuff :) |
| 01:45.08 | a_meteorite | JeffM: very true, I saw Pentium Pros from like 2 years back going for over $100 |
| 01:45.21 | a_meteorite | if you have an old server and need an old part, you gotta pay for it.. |
| 01:45.24 | *** join/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=shedelj@unaffiliated/thinkdifferentl/x-838543) |
| 01:45.27 | JeffM | as they get rare they become valuable |
| 01:45.37 | JeffM | you have to wait for when that model is disconinued |
| 01:45.38 | a_meteorite | so you just gotta know the right time I guess |
| 01:45.45 | a_meteorite | that makes sense |
| 01:46.45 | Suspect | <awilcox> Suspect/CBG: I have an eVGA GeForce 8600 GTS 512MB GDDR3 PCI-e x16 off Newegg |
| 01:46.46 | Suspect | Ah |
| 01:46.58 | JeffM | 80$ for a gig of 5300 is about rock bottom I think, for sodims, that's why I'm geting more then I need now. |
| 01:47.09 | a_meteorite | 8600 GTS is the G92 core, I think? |
| 01:47.51 | Think_Differentl | 8600 is not G92 |
| 01:47.57 | Think_Differentl | 8600 is G84 |
| 01:48.19 | a_meteorite | ahhh |
| 01:48.29 | a_meteorite | Nvidia really messed with their 8 series |
| 01:48.36 | Gnurdux | 8800 is g92 |
| 01:48.41 | Gnurdux | and its amazing |
| 01:48.44 | a_meteorite | indeed |
| 01:48.49 | Think_Differentl | only some are G92 |
| 01:48.53 | JeffM | the 8600 is the midrange |
| 01:48.57 | Think_Differentl | I gotta send back my 8600GTS |
| 01:49.31 | awilcox | why, Think_Differentl? |
| 01:49.42 | Think_Differentl | awilcox, dunno, it died. |
| 01:49.57 | Think_Differentl | i heard a pop and looked over and saw that something was smoking. |
| 01:50.09 | Think_Differentl | turned out to have to do with the PCIe power connector |
| 01:52.57 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=const@unaffiliated/macsforme) |
| 01:54.16 | spldart | My bosses 8600 failed right outta teh box... booted and did the horizontal artifacting lines thing... He replaced it after 2 days of tinkering and problem solved |
| 01:54.52 | Think_Differentl | ouch. |
| 01:54.53 | spldart | ATI and NVidia have been skimping on hardware quality and it's Really been showing |
| 01:55.10 | Think_Differentl | well, I plan to get a 9800 whenever it comes. |
| 01:55.16 | Think_Differentl | replace the two 8600's |
| 01:55.56 | spldart | I don't even know who to turn to for my next vid card :( |
| 01:56.59 | Think_Differentl | AMD/ATI better make a comeback. |
| 01:57.06 | Think_Differentl | otherwise they're toast. |
| 01:57.34 | spldart | Assuming someone else comes in and cleans their OC gpu's |
| 02:35.02 | *** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (n=Thumper@about/essy/coffeeAddict/Thumper) |
| 02:48.37 | *** join/#bzflag Ride (n=18c5fa09@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 02:53.24 | Ride- | can any body here host my new maps |
| 02:53.40 | Ride- | there is two of them |
| 03:00.18 | *** join/#bzflag Ride (n=18c5fa09@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 03:16.50 | *** part/#bzflag me1 (n=khazhy@pool-96-237-103-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:28.29 | *** join/#bzflag DTRemenak (i=DTRemena@about/essy/CrazyCoder/DTRemenak) |
| 03:28.29 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v DTRemenak] by ChanServ |
| 03:42.03 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@CPE-75-81-248-105.we.res.rr.com) |
| 03:42.03 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 03:50.01 | *** join/#bzflag iWinny (n=kylevane@CPE0016b6de59f3-CM000f9fac8236.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 03:53.47 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@pool-71-109-231-178.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 04:04.34 | *** join/#bzflag iWinny (n=kylevane@unaffiliated/winny) |
| 04:22.08 | JeffM | mmmm giglybytes |
| 04:22.48 | awilcox | JeffM: you wouldn't by any chance know why Windows Server 2003 would drop packets after running for less than a minute, would you? |
| 04:23.19 | JeffM | droping to the lan? |
| 04:24.31 | awilcox | yes. |
| 04:24.49 | JeffM | drivers |
| 04:25.04 | awilcox | it does like this, JeffM, I did ping -n 100 10.0.0.1. it does 3 good packets, 2 dropped packets, 6 good packets, and then 89 (the rest) fail |
| 04:25.18 | awilcox | I have to reboot to have it pingable again, and then I only get 9 or 10 good packets out. |
| 04:25.35 | awilcox | JeffM: brand new fresh drivers from the mobo's CD |
| 04:25.54 | JeffM | eewwwww cd |
| 04:26.01 | JeffM | interwebs |
| 04:26.05 | awilcox | of course this mobo requires SP1 to run correctly...I can't download SP2 without network connectivity though |
| 04:26.18 | awilcox | JeffM: I get 10 packets out before death, and you think I can d/l a NIC driver? |
| 04:26.45 | JeffM | usb flash drive |
| 04:26.48 | blast007 | download them on another machine and use a USB stick |
| 04:27.29 | awilcox | why does everyone think I have a USB stick? |
| 04:27.34 | awilcox | I do not have a USB stick. |
| 04:27.40 | blast007 | floppy? CD? |
| 04:28.16 | JeffM | burn a cd |
| 04:28.16 | JeffM | dude, common stuff |
| 04:28.16 | awilcox | also, >_> "Direct3D Acceleration is not available." |
| 04:28.16 | awilcox | *clears throat*...on an 8600? |
| 04:28.16 | blast007 | it's a server OS. WILL it have 3D accel? |
| 04:28.27 | awilcox | blast007: yes, it's designed for CAD... |
| 04:28.54 | blast007 | guess I've never run sever 2k3 on anything with a real card |
| 04:29.20 | Think_Differentl | awilcox, you should get a usb stick :L |
| 04:29.46 | blast007 | but let me get this straight... you bought a quad-core CPU, but you won't spend $10 on a USB stick? |
| 04:30.07 | bryjen | maybe he had no money left |
| 04:30.09 | awilcox | blast007: I didn't say I wouldn't. |
| 04:30.17 | Think_Differentl | he bought a quad? |
| 04:30.25 | awilcox | in fact I may...but it's 11:30 pm on the east coast, and I can't go out and buy one |
| 04:30.39 | awilcox | Think_Differently: yes, Xeon E5405, sSpec number SLAP2 |
| 04:30.46 | blast007 | awilcox: do you have a spare NIC? or one you can steal from another system? |
| 04:31.02 | JeffM | awilcox: what drivers? |
| 04:31.08 | JeffM | for the video? |
| 04:31.10 | awilcox | blast007: I have no spare NICs, except for a 16-bit ISA one that DTRemenak gave me |
| 04:31.12 | Think_Differentl | and you need a quad xeon because...? |
| 04:31.17 | awilcox | JeffM: ...the ones that came with the GPU |
| 04:31.33 | Think_Differentl | new gpu drivers = always better |
| 04:31.34 | JeffM | those are old |
| 04:31.38 | awilcox | Think_Differentl: I compile stuff a lot, I am developing a kernel, I'd like to have it, et cetera. |
| 04:31.58 | JeffM | always use drivers from the net |
| 04:32.04 | awilcox | I was one of the first people to buy an MMX too, and everyone said it was unnecessary >_> |
| 04:32.30 | blast007 | is that Server 2003 x64? |
| 04:32.43 | awilcox | blast007: no, because Microsoft gave me an invalid key. |
| 04:32.47 | awilcox | and they won't fix it. |
| 04:32.49 | blast007 | heh |
| 04:32.52 | iWinny | then CALL them |
| 04:33.01 | awilcox | iWinny: I DID call them. they refuse to help me |
| 04:33.03 | Think_Differentl | you should run linux :P |
| 04:33.07 | iWinny | call again |
| 04:33.19 | JeffM | who did you buy it from? |
| 04:33.23 | iWinny | they must give you a new key. You paid for an OS. |
| 04:33.24 | awilcox | iWinny: I have called them at least three times, if you think you can get through to them then YOU call them |
| 04:33.48 | awilcox | JeffM: most of the computer came from CostCentral, though the GPU and RAM came from Newegg and the CPU from ServersDirect |
| 04:34.08 | awilcox | (if you mean the OS, I got it with MSDN) |
| 04:34.38 | JeffM | who sold you MSDN? |
| 04:35.30 | awilcox | JeffM: um, I got it on eBay, and that isn't the point. the MSDN is expired now, and though my license is still valid (because I had it in 2003, before they made the clause that states "when the subscription expires, so does your license"), but they won't give me media |
| 04:36.00 | blast007 | heh |
| 04:36.02 | awilcox | and they never shipped me my 64-bit disc. |
| 04:36.17 | awilcox | when I was a subscriber, if I wasn't an idiot and would have noticed that, I could have bugged them about it |
| 04:36.26 | awilcox | but because I didn't notice, I am completely screwed |
| 04:36.52 | JeffM | well, also MSDN isn't there for you to use as your primary OS |
| 04:37.04 | awilcox | JeffM: it is as long as I use it as a development platform. |
| 04:37.16 | JeffM | techincaly it's for testing only IIRC |
| 04:37.34 | awilcox | I am using it as a development platform; writing a kernel, compiling programs, developing my own apps. |
| 04:37.51 | JeffM | for windows? ;) |
| 04:37.56 | awilcox | JeffM: C#! |
| 04:37.57 | JeffM | your on the edge |
| 04:38.15 | awilcox | yeah but I'm on the legal side of the edge ;) |
| 04:38.15 | JeffM | and don't they give out keys from the MSDN site? |
| 04:38.24 | awilcox | JeffM: see that's where the problem lies... |
| 04:38.30 | awilcox | I have a valid, MSDN key |
| 04:38.40 | JeffM | aperantly not. |
| 04:38.44 | awilcox | but I have no MSDN media... I thought I could just borrow a retail disc from my friend... |
| 04:38.45 | JeffM | if it was valid, it'd have worked |
| 04:38.56 | JeffM | no no, MSDN is difrent |
| 04:38.57 | awilcox | but uh, no. for server products, MSDN key only works with MSDN media. |
| 04:39.01 | JeffM | yeah |
| 04:39.03 | JeffM | that's common |
| 04:39.10 | awilcox | JeffM: the XP key even says "Retail or MSDN" on it, but nooooo, not for server 2k3 |
| 04:39.11 | JeffM | that MSDN thing is basicly worthless for you |
| 04:39.14 | blast007 | it's like how OEM keys only work with OEM, and not Retail |
| 04:39.38 | awilcox | i.e. why I am running Server 2003 32-bit, not x64 |
| 04:40.28 | awilcox | anyways I am running 32-bit, and that was the whole point. this isn't getting my ping problem solved :p |
| 04:40.45 | JeffM | get the drivers from intel's site |
| 04:40.50 | JeffM | there ya go |
| 04:41.00 | JeffM | that's how the big boys do it ;) |
| 04:41.05 | awilcox | hmm, will download sound drivers too. |
| 04:41.08 | awilcox | ;) |
| 04:41.10 | JeffM | stuff that comes with the hardware never works |
| 04:42.01 | awilcox | oh *come on*... |
| 04:42.08 | awilcox | they have no 32-bit OS downloads for this thing! |
| 04:42.08 | JeffM | seriously |
| 04:42.26 | awilcox | the guy at Intel specifically said I could run a 32-bit OS without problems D= |
| 04:42.27 | JeffM | you picked the hardware |
| 04:42.38 | awilcox | well the driver CD comes with 32-bit drivers. |
| 04:42.48 | awilcox | they just don't have downloadables. |
| 04:42.50 | JeffM | you didn't check driver support on the internet first? |
| 04:43.09 | awilcox | JeffM: well when I was checking for driver support I didn't realise I didn't have the x64 media >_> |
| 04:43.30 | awilcox | I can...still...do this...I'll just burn SP2 and see if that fixes it, and go from there |
| 04:43.37 | awilcox | or wait. is XP 32-bit close enough? |
| 04:43.43 | JeffM | no |
| 04:43.50 | awilcox | oh-kay then. |
| 04:44.24 | JeffM | what chipset is it? |
| 04:44.40 | awilcox | it's Intel 5000X, but they like you to go by board: Intel S5000XVNSATAR |
| 04:46.03 | JeffM | what is the nic? |
| 04:46.44 | awilcox | Intel(R) PRO/1000 EB Network Connection with I/O Acceleration (from device manager) |
| 04:47.58 | JeffM | hmm pro eb dosn't show up |
| 04:48.28 | blast007 | awilcox: probably like $1k |
| 04:48.42 | awilcox | okay...so how should I get 32-bit working here ;) |
| 04:48.55 | iWinny | why not use vista? |
| 04:49.07 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman- (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 04:49.19 | blast007 | awilcox: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2003/howtobuy/licensing/pricing.mspx |
| 04:49.24 | blast007 | ;) |
| 04:50.15 | awilcox | ugh. |
| 04:51.08 | awilcox | iWinny: three reasons. 1) vista sucky. 2) vista is 500$...for 499$ more I can go with something I like and know will work. 3) I'm kinda done with purchasing for a bit |
| 04:51.36 | iWinny | eh? You can get ult for 230 here |
| 04:51.45 | awilcox | retail?! |
| 04:51.47 | iWinny | and it;s not sucky |
| 04:51.57 | awilcox | it's a resource hog. |
| 04:52.11 | awilcox | I prefer to use my quad-core 4GB RAM for actual processing and data, not for running aero. |
| 04:52.39 | JeffM | well I don't see the eb chipset even listed on intels site |
| 04:52.41 | awilcox | hmmmmmm |
| 04:52.44 | JeffM | but they have drivers for many others |
| 04:52.49 | JeffM | just based on the chipset |
| 04:53.25 | awilcox | um...I unticked it and am rebooting now |
| 04:53.27 | JeffM | yeah get SP2 that shoudl help lots |
| 04:53.31 | JeffM | lots lots lots |
| 04:53.37 | iWinny | awilcox: http://pccyber.com/?v=Product&i=SW-MS-V-ULTIMATE-64-FR |
| 04:54.30 | awilcox | iWinny: and it's completely out of stock. |
| 04:55.01 | iWinny | so? wait a while |
| 04:55.23 | awilcox | well it connected my server, lets see if it can actually transfer sp2 with it or if I should burn the disc. |
| 04:55.41 | JeffM | disk is never a bad idea |
| 04:55.46 | awilcox | Windows cannot find '\\Namerica1'. Check the spelling and try again. |
| 04:55.51 | JeffM | that way you'll have it if you have to redo |
| 04:55.58 | awilcox | JeffM: good point! |
| 04:55.59 | awilcox | *burns* |
| 04:56.25 | JeffM | seriously your first time right? |
| 04:56.39 | awilcox | JeffM: this is my first server build yes. |
| 04:57.01 | JeffM | I'm thinking machine build |
| 04:57.03 | JeffM | ever |
| 04:57.13 | JeffM | don't pull a grandman again ;) |
| 04:57.26 | awilcox | um no. I suppose I've been incredibly lucky, I've built two other computers |
| 04:57.34 | awilcox | both I just install windows and *poof* instant work |
| 04:57.43 | awilcox | and then I install Linux and *poof* instant work |
| 04:57.52 | awilcox | and then this one, install windows *poof* no work. |
| 04:57.56 | JeffM | you did know you were going with very specialised hardware |
| 04:58.06 | awilcox | yes and I assumed some hiccups |
| 04:58.11 | awilcox | this is a hiccup, I can understand that. |
| 04:58.42 | awilcox | but I'm thinking you will quickly lose your patience with me; you can go off and I'll wait for the next available #bzflag agent if you prefer :p |
| 05:00.40 | JeffM | bzflag is techincaly not the place |
| 05:00.48 | JeffM | but yeah, burn everything you can |
| 05:00.54 | JeffM | cus then you have a disk with the stuff you need |
| 05:00.59 | awilcox | yeah, okay :) |
| 05:01.15 | awilcox | JeffM: one final question. will it _hurt_ the install if I try XP drivers? |
| 05:01.36 | awilcox | (because technically I don't think the GeForce drivers I installed were for 2003.) |
| 05:02.01 | JeffM | it may work, it may not install |
| 05:02.03 | JeffM | it my hoze you |
| 05:02.22 | awilcox | eh. worst case scenario I spend another 14 mins doing a clean reinstall ;) |
| 05:03.05 | awilcox | *IF* they are smart and this is assuming a lot of them, the xp/2003/vista drivers are one package, and then it MAY have 32-bit 2003 drivers |
| 05:04.22 | *** join/#bzflag Mets (i=HydraIRC@JETSTAR.RES.cmu.edu) |
| 05:05.32 | JeffM | vista, probalby not |
| 05:05.55 | awilcox | actually, the XP 32/64, Vista 32/64, 2003 x64, and 2000 AS are all in one package for every driver available. |
| 05:06.21 | Mets | vista is just an amazing piece of software, perhaps the greatest os ever build |
| 05:06.31 | awilcox | pff |
| 05:06.40 | Mets | :) |
| 05:06.59 | awilcox | Ah ha it does have 2003 32-bit! |
| 05:07.57 | *** join/#bzflag [1]Mets (n=Mets@JETSTAR.RES.cmu.edu) |
| 05:08.12 | [1]Mets | wow, that wasn't even intentional |
| 05:10.01 | awilcox | and even though I'm not using it right now, I think I'll d/l the SATA RAID driver anyways. I may thank myself later. |
| 05:22.49 | Constitution | ~Thumper_++ |
| 05:23.01 | *** join/#bzflag Ride- (n=18c5fa09@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 05:23.52 | *** join/#bzflag Ride (n=18c5fa09@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 06:03.55 | *** join/#bzflag sigonasr2 (n=sigonasr@ip72-200-88-154.tc.ph.cox.net) |
| 06:20.14 | *** join/#bzflag TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 06:20.15 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 07:57.55 | *** join/#bzflag lan56 (n=Ian_Agar@adsl-75-4-236-198.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 08:30.36 | *** part/#bzflag pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu) |
| 08:36.29 | *** join/#bzflag pacman87 (n=Timothy@resnet-45-192.dorm.utexas.edu) |
| 08:57.23 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@134.106.59.204) |
| 08:57.32 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@134.106.59.204) |
| 09:09.23 | *** join/#bzflag goldie09 (n=3e88a242@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 09:09.48 | goldie09 | hi |
| 09:10.21 | goldie09 | hello |
| 09:11.10 | *** join/#bzflag Upsetter (n=Upsetter@i577B7CCB.versanet.de) |
| 09:11.32 | *** join/#bzflag goldie09 (n=3e88a242@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 09:11.40 | goldie09 | hi |
| 09:11.43 | goldie09 | hi |
| 09:11.46 | goldie09 | hhi |
| 09:11.48 | goldie09 | ihi |
| 09:11.48 | goldie09 | hih |
| 09:11.49 | goldie09 | i |
| 09:11.51 | goldie09 | hhi |
| 09:11.53 | goldie09 | hi |
| 09:11.57 | purple_cow | goldie09: stop it |
| 09:11.59 | goldie09 | h |
| 09:12.01 | goldie09 | ih |
| 09:12.03 | goldie09 | ihi |
| 09:12.05 | goldie09 | hi |
| 09:12.07 | goldie09 | hii |
| 09:12.09 | goldie09 | hi |
| 09:12.11 | goldie09 | h |
| 09:12.13 | goldie09 | h |
| 09:12.15 | goldie09 | hi |
| 09:12.16 | *** kick/#bzflag [goldie09!n=david@208.69.182.150] by purple_cow (purple_cow) |
| 09:12.35 | *** join/#bzflag goldie09 (n=3e88a242@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 09:18.52 | a_meteorite | wtf.. |
| 09:19.47 | a_meteorite | purple_cow: the kid had too much caffeine and couldn't go to sleep ;) |
| 09:46.09 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsang@88-108-205-240.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 09:52.50 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 09:52.50 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 09:58.14 | jftsang | in future versions of BZFlag, would it be possible to have teleporters and weapons under defines? |
| 10:02.44 | a_meteorite | jftsang: why under defines? |
| 10:03.31 | jftsang | define objects |
| 10:03.39 | a_meteorite | huh? explain |
| 10:03.58 | a_meteorite | oh, wait, I thought you meant some sort of compiler define |
| 10:04.01 | a_meteorite | not bzw define |
| 10:04.04 | jftsang | e.g. if I had a "castle" object which had teleporters, could I use it under a define |
| 10:04.35 | a_meteorite | the wiki page says you can |
| 10:04.36 | a_meteorite | http://my.bzflag.org/w/Define |
| 10:05.07 | a_meteorite | says you can do teleporter, but weapon isn't listed |
| 10:06.01 | jftsang | hm, what about links? |
| 10:06.39 | jftsang | the wiki page must be wrong then... I tried putting a teleporter under a define and it didn't like it |
| 10:06.58 | a_meteorite | nope, links don't work under a define |
| 10:07.50 | jftsang | so how would you reference the teleporters then? |
| 10:10.08 | a_meteorite | name your teleporter |
| 10:21.10 | jftsang | http://pastebin.com/m5b77892c << why does BZFS complain "unable to position flags on this world"? |
| 10:26.08 | a_meteorite | make sure you have -fb |
| 10:26.35 | jftsang | I do.. |
| 10:26.57 | a_meteorite | maybe size 1 1 1 is too small? |
| 10:27.38 | a_meteorite | ahh, I see |
| 10:27.44 | jftsang | hm? |
| 10:27.53 | a_meteorite | your stuff is 40 units high, you place the zones at 41 |
| 10:28.03 | a_meteorite | that probably makes bzfs unhappy |
| 10:28.11 | jftsang | no... what about the tower platform's height |
| 10:28.19 | jftsang | the top bound is at 41, isn't it |
| 10:28.30 | a_meteorite | oh, 1 unit high |
| 10:31.08 | a_meteorite | heh, well it'd help if I had the whole map |
| 10:33.34 | jftsang | wait |
| 10:34.05 | jftsang | http://pastebin.com/m3c3cb3a |
| 10:34.12 | jftsang | I've tweaked it slightly |
| 10:34.17 | jftsang | using flag instead of zoneflag |
| 10:35.23 | jftsang | yet it still refuses to put my guided missiles on the tower |
| 10:45.10 | jftsang | I'll be back |
| 10:58.29 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@134.106.59.204) |
| 11:01.10 | *** join/#bzflag ViciousM (n=max@cpe-024-211-248-161.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 11:01.23 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsang@88-108-205-240.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 11:06.41 | *** join/#bzflag Upsetter (n=Upsetter@i577B7CCB.versanet.de) |
| 11:13.23 | *** join/#bzflag Dessy (n=Dessy@88-134-79-92-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 11:20.40 | *** part/#bzflag lan56 (n=Ian_Agar@adsl-75-4-236-198.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 11:39.46 | *** join/#bzflag Wits (n=Warinthe@1.168.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 12:26.13 | jftsang | anyone know if Theme97 still plays BZFlag? |
| 12:26.40 | jftsang | he used to have a map where you get to choose your flag and you aren't allowed to drop it... I want that plugin |
| 12:29.56 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@134.106.59.204) |
| 12:36.29 | *** join/#bzflag Wits (n=Warinthe@1.168.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 13:32.49 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@213.219.144.106.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
| 13:40.25 | Winny | I see our friend "goldie" came back and spammed later |
| 13:40.26 | Winny | heh |
| 13:46.39 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 13:48.40 | *** join/#bzflag menotume (n=menotume@pdpc/supporter/active/menotume) |
| 13:48.40 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v menotume] by ChanServ |
| 13:54.58 | *** join/#bzflag Kyleve (n=kyleve@unaffiliated/winny) |
| 14:55.31 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (n=khazhy@pool-96-237-103-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 15:37.39 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsang@88-108-162-130.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 16:12.17 | *** join/#bzflag big_daddy2 (n=48f1980e@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:12.47 | big_daddy2 | hey yall is there any way for the group owner not to be part of that group? |
| 16:13.30 | whodaman- | big_daddy2, make a second BZBB account and tell an admin to set the ownership of that group to the new account |
| 16:13.34 | whodaman- | .............. |
| 16:14.29 | Winny | why would you not want to be in control of your own group? |
| 16:14.32 | Winny | seems kind of pointless |
| 16:14.37 | whodaman- | Hidden guys |
| 16:14.38 | Winny | oh, he left |
| 16:14.39 | Winny | heh |
| 16:14.47 | whodaman- | I have that too |
| 16:14.57 | Winny | hidden works without it too |
| 16:15.05 | Winny | just make a win.hide for example |
| 16:15.11 | Winny | and the HIDEADMIN is applied to you |
| 16:15.14 | *** join/#bzflag TD-Linux (n=wheeeeee@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux) |
| 16:15.31 | whodaman- | Winny, I'm talking about this sitaution |
| 16:15.36 | whodaman- | You want a usergoup for hidden admins |
| 16:15.46 | whodaman- | but you don't want to be hidden |
| 16:15.56 | whodaman- | but as the owner of the group you would be |
| 16:17.02 | Thumper_ | whodaman-: just add a local NOHIDE group and denies that perm |
| 16:17.03 | Thumper_ | NOHIDE: !HIDEADMIN |
| 16:17.09 | Thumper_ | and apply that to the owner |
| 16:19.12 | whodaman- | Thumper_, yeah, thta works too |
| 16:22.07 | *** join/#bzflag my (n=48f1980e@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:22.27 | my | hey can i do !my momma in a usber db? |
| 16:23.40 | *** join/#bzflag Suspect (n=Suspect@68-113-160-012.dhcp.plt.ny.charter.com) |
| 16:24.10 | whodaman- | wow. |
| 16:24.18 | whodaman- | [17:12] * big_daddy2 (n=48f1980e@bz.bzflag.bz) has joined #bzflag |
| 16:24.22 | whodaman- | [17:22] * my (n=48f1980e@bz.bzflag.bz) has joined #bzflag |
| 16:24.24 | whodaman- | good job |
| 16:26.18 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumT1m (n=tim@62-249-230-206.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 16:28.07 | *** join/#bzflag yay- (n=60ed67d4@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:28.27 | *** join/#bzflag yay- (n=60ed67d4@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:28.54 | *** join/#bzflag r234 (n=60ed67d4@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 16:32.34 | *** join/#bzflag Upsetter (n=Upsetter@i577B7CCB.versanet.de) |
| 16:57.52 | *** join/#bzflag big_daddy2 (n=48f1980e@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 17:05.33 | *** join/#bzflag sigonasr2 (n=sigonasr@ip72-200-88-154.tc.ph.cox.net) |
| 17:16.14 | *** join/#bzflag Upsette1 (n=Upsetter@i59F7D49C.versanet.de) |
| 17:39.47 | *** part/#bzflag me1 (n=khazhy@pool-96-237-103-212.bstnma.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:02.34 | *** join/#bzflag jftsang (n=jftsang@88-108-162-130.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:09.39 | *** join/#bzflag hamburger (n=4c1f24d8@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 18:15.10 | *** join/#bzflag ShadowSpectre (n=Default@24-158-74-158.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com) |
| 18:29.56 | *** join/#bzflag Default_ (n=Default@24-158-74-158.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com) |
| 18:31.37 | *** join/#bzflag Default_ (n=Default@24-158-74-158.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com) |
| 18:45.26 | Winny | ~wake Constitution |
| 18:45.27 | ibot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on Constitution and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 18:48.07 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@pool-71-109-231-178.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 18:53.41 | *** join/#bzflag ShadowSpectre (n=Default@24-158-74-158.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com) |
| 19:00.42 | *** join/#bzflag hobbsc (n=hobbsc@ip70-178-55-100.ks.ks.cox.net) |
| 19:01.58 | *** join/#bzflag sigonasr2 (n=sigonasr@ip72-200-88-154.tc.ph.cox.net) |
| 19:04.48 | whodaman- | ~AHA++ |
| 19:07.42 | AHA | what did i do? :p |
| 19:08.38 | whodaman- | help me compile :) |
| 19:09.40 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@CPE-75-81-248-105.we.res.rr.com) |
| 19:09.40 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 19:14.41 | *** join/#bzflag goldie (n=514f6df2@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 19:15.25 | goldie | hi |
| 19:16.14 | AHA | bi |
| 19:17.35 | Winny | he was the one that spammed the channel earlier |
| 19:18.03 | whodaman- | yeah and purple_cow pwnd him |
| 19:24.50 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=Spazzy_M@unaffiliated/spazzymcgee) |
| 19:30.13 | *** join/#bzflag sigonasr2 (n=sigonasr@ip72-200-88-154.tc.ph.cox.net) |
| 20:40.52 | *** join/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-027-172.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 20:43.06 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@host-091-097-027-172.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 20:46.36 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=Spazzy_M@unaffiliated/spazzymcgee) |
| 20:49.39 | AHA | ~whodaman-++ |
| 20:50.20 | AHA | ~karma |
| 20:50.20 | ibot | aha has karma of 3 |
| 20:50.23 | AHA | :D |
| 20:50.27 | whodaman- | ~karma whodaman- |
| 20:50.27 | ibot | whodaman- has karma of 11 |
| 20:50.35 | whodaman- | ~karma Winny |
| 20:50.35 | ibot | winny has karma of 45 |
| 20:50.37 | whodaman- | :) |
| 20:50.38 | Winny | :D |
| 20:50.49 | AHA | :( |
| 20:51.15 | whodaman- | I remember the first time I tried to give donny_baker karma |
| 20:51.20 | whodaman- | ++donny_baker~ |
| 20:51.24 | AHA | lol |
| 20:51.26 | whodaman- | >.> |
| 20:52.10 | Winny | hehe |
| 21:18.37 | L4m3r | :P |
| 21:19.19 | whodaman- | ah L4m3r nice group-making :) |
| 21:33.26 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 21:33.26 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 21:33.54 | *** join/#bzflag CloakerGirl (n=ce43a406@bz.bzflag.bz) |
| 21:35.09 | CloakerGirl | . . . hello? |
| 21:35.35 | CloakerGirl | Man, am I ever confused. |
| 21:35.42 | jftsang | hello |
| 21:35.52 | Winny | why are you confused? |
| 21:36.06 | CloakerGirl | I'm in a permanent state of confusion. |
| 21:36.20 | jftsang | so is IRC adding to the confusion in a particular way? |
| 21:36.24 | Winny | Perhaps I should ask: What can we help you with? |
| 21:36.25 | CloakerGirl | Like Calvin, only confused instead. |
| 21:36.40 | CloakerGirl | Yeah, it is, but enything new confuses me |
| 21:36.44 | CloakerGirl | oops |
| 21:36.49 | jftsang | please state your question |
| 21:37.34 | Winny | heh |
| 21:37.37 | Winny | thought so |
| 21:37.43 | jftsang | hehehe... CGI? |
| 21:37.45 | a_meteorite | one of them? |
| 21:38.29 | jftsang | "please state your question" || *leave* |
| 21:42.09 | *** join/#bzflag Dessy (n=Dessy@88-134-79-92-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 21:44.15 | *** join/#bzflag think_tank (n=think_ta@c-71-194-147-60.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:50.06 | donny_baker | ~L4m3r++ |
| 21:55.18 | L4m3r | ~spazzymcgee++ |
| 22:36.56 | *** join/#bzflag uso (n=uso@84-72-8-253.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:41.32 | *** join/#bzflag Dessy2 (n=Dessy@88-134-79-92-dynip.superkabel.de) |
| 22:44.46 | *** join/#bzflag WeBeGood (n=craig@64.91.205.124) |
| 22:46.57 | WeBeGood | CTF = CaptureTheFlag; |
| 22:47.12 | Winny | huh? |
| 22:50.17 | WeBeGood | TeamScore += (NumberOfPlayersOnScoringTeam / NumberOfPlayersOnLosingTeam) ** 2; |
| 22:50.29 | jftsang | huh? |
| 22:50.42 | AHA | huh? |
| 22:50.44 | WeBeGood | CTF is not FFA |
| 22:50.51 | jftsang | so...? |
| 22:51.04 | WeBeGood | That equations looks fair to me |
| 22:51.39 | WeBeGood | and the negative of it for the Losing team |
| 22:51.44 | jftsang | it's fairly fair |
| 22:52.45 | jftsang | can I use BZFS under cygwin? |
| 22:52.46 | WeBeGood | It AutoMagically adjusts for uneven teams, no need to stop the game of CTF |
| 22:53.07 | jftsang | mhm. It's better than the no-CTF system |
| 22:53.30 | WeBeGood | It keeps the momentum of the CTF game going |
| 22:53.52 | WeBeGood | Switching to FFA, is bad for the momentum of the game |
| 22:54.15 | WeBeGood | Switching to FFA, there is no need to protect your own flag |
| 22:54.45 | a_meteorite | jftsang: why not under cygwin? as long as you have everything you need... |
| 22:55.35 | jftsang | it's complainong about deprecated headers again |
| 22:57.14 | *** join/#bzflag RatOmeter (n=chatzill@r74-195-244-151.stl1cmta01.stwrok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net) |
| 22:59.00 | RatOmeter | howdy, got a question about SR flag. It's a radius weapon, correct? So does it lag behind your movement as does the SW flag? |
| 22:59.48 | WeBeGood | I don't think so, but haven't looked at the code. It's just a fixed radius |
| 23:00.08 | WeBeGood | there is always some lag |
| 23:00.45 | jftsang | no |
| 23:00.53 | WeBeGood | two SR tanks meet, it depends on which way the tanks are going as to who dies |
| 23:00.57 | jftsang | I think he means the Doppler effect |
| 23:01.25 | RatOmeter | Aye. Case in point: I had SR, Rexflex had SR, I dropped down on him from above... I died, he did not. |
| 23:01.42 | jftsang | I don't suppose SR would Doppler shift |
| 23:01.51 | WeBeGood | SW is a time function, SR is not. |
| 23:02.16 | RatOmeter | OK, it may have just been a net lag effect then |
| 23:02.37 | WeBeGood | You crossed his SR radius first, he didn't |
| 23:03.03 | WeBeGood | Very rarely do both SR tanks die. |
| 23:03.21 | RatOmeter | I was assuming there was a 'time function' associated with that flag effect, but thought I would ask here to verify. Thanks |
| 23:03.36 | L4m3r | technically they should both cross SR radius at the same time |
| 23:03.44 | L4m3r | since it's the same for both tanks, and death is instant |
| 23:03.46 | jftsang | yes, they should |
| 23:03.58 | L4m3r | but yeah, lag causes issues there |
| 23:04.21 | L4m3r | it's not like SW where the radius changes and the killzone is detached from the tank as it moves |
| 23:04.24 | RatOmeter | Aye, but net lag (even if well within server/map reqts) would likely affect the outcome |
| 23:04.27 | jftsang | it should really be made so the tank with greater velocity would kill |
| 23:04.40 | L4m3r | it should be made so they both die regardless |
| 23:04.55 | WeBeGood | Both tanks usally never die, it's it the one moving toward the other tank, the one moving away usally lives |
| 23:04.58 | L4m3r | RatOmeter: yes, it is entirely lag. |
| 23:05.13 | RatOmeter | I doubt there is enough (any) 'fuzziness' to the logic |
| 23:05.25 | L4m3r | there isn't, afaik |
| 23:05.58 | WeBeGood | But the lasers don't shoot straight. |
| 23:06.07 | WeBeGood | I have looked at that code. |
| 23:06.39 | L4m3r | nothing shoots straight. it shoots where the client says it's shooting. :P |
| 23:07.55 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@pool-71-109-231-178.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 23:08.39 | WeBeGood | No the lasers have had a bug in the laser algorythm for years now, I wrote a bug report a long time ago |
| 23:09.12 | WeBeGood | The thief flag also, and I think SB have a bug too. |
| 23:09.47 | WeBeGood | not SB, rapid fire is the one with a bug |
| 23:10.18 | L4m3r | what's wrong with the trajectory? |
| 23:10.50 | WeBeGood | The best place to look at the laser problem is lasermainia |
| 23:11.06 | RatOmeter | WeBeGood: they certainly seem straight enough for me, as demonstrated at Louman's laser thingy map |
| 23:11.19 | L4m3r | how are they not straight? |
| 23:11.34 | L4m3r | do they curve? are they cockeyed coming from the barrel? |
| 23:11.51 | WeBeGood | Get on the outside rail and shoot something, they don't shoot straight while moving |
| 23:12.44 | WeBeGood | You can't even see what you are shooting at on the rail in lasermania |
| 23:12.44 | RatOmeter | yes, but I think that's a relative motion issue |
| 23:12.44 | L4m3r | yes, it is |
| 23:12.44 | blast007 | they shoot that way on purpose |
| 23:12.46 | blast007 | it's not a "bug", it's how they were coded |
| 23:12.55 | WeBeGood | yes, the laser algorythm is just plain wrong, it's a but |
| 23:13.08 | Winny | ~pw |
| 23:13.11 | ibot | i heard patches welcome is a common response by maintainers of Open Source products. It's roughly means "We don't have much time on our hands, so if you write that feature and send it to us we will likely roll it in. If you don't have the time to write it, we don't either. Stop asking for it." |
| 23:13.11 | WeBeGood | bug that is |
| 23:13.23 | L4m3r | shot momentum is not a bug |
| 23:13.25 | blast007 | it's not "wrong" ;) unless you're comparing to how real life works |
| 23:13.51 | L4m3r | though, the effect for the laser seems to be slightly exaggerated, considering the speed of the laser |
| 23:13.53 | blast007 | in the real world, tanks don't jump, shoot balls of light, or pick up white flags to allow them to fly |
| 23:13.59 | WeBeGood | I wrote the correction to the bug when I reported it. |
| 23:14.05 | WeBeGood | years ago |
| 23:14.12 | *** join/#bzflag Wits (n=Warinthe@1.168.188.72.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 23:14.20 | blast007 | L4m3r: yeah, in the real world, it would shoot out straight, even if you were moving at 300MPH sideways |
| 23:14.35 | WeBeGood | It was a one or two like correction, really simple |
| 23:14.58 | L4m3r | what'd you do, remove compensation entirely? |
| 23:15.02 | WeBeGood | lasers travel at the speed of light |
| 23:15.48 | L4m3r | hm... now I'm curious |
| 23:15.50 | a_meteorite | fully server side tracked shots is probably an even better answer |
| 23:15.55 | WeBeGood | yes, take out the vector math with the laser, theif flag |
| 23:16.03 | blast007 | a_meteorite: that has nothing to do with this |
| 23:16.34 | L4m3r | how *does* it work in real life? |
| 23:16.34 | RatOmeter | and BZ is an arcade style game. Did you try to make a case for supporting RL physics? |
| 23:16.51 | L4m3r | granted it'd be extremely hard to measure given the speed of light |
| 23:17.06 | L4m3r | but... would the shot be angled because of momentum? |
| 23:17.15 | WeBeGood | also, the rapid fire, and theif flag have a bug with respect to vertical speed of the tank. |
| 23:17.22 | RatOmeter | L4m3r: should shoot straight where you were aiming at the time you clicked |
| 23:17.44 | L4m3r | for the game, sure, the difference is not significant |
| 23:17.45 | WeBeGood | I have bothered to look into the code to find that one yet. As the lasers haven't been fixed |
| 23:17.49 | RatOmeter | WeBeGood: please elaborate |
| 23:17.53 | a_meteorite | blast007: I know, but I'm just saying since it is realted to shots |
| 23:17.56 | *** join/#bzflag whodaman (n=whodaman@pdpc/supporter/student/whodaman-) |
| 23:17.59 | L4m3r | but in real life physics... hm... light has no mass |
| 23:18.04 | blast007 | L4m3r: the ratio between the speed of light and ths speed of your tank would make it appear like it wasn't moving sideways at all |
| 23:18.22 | WeBeGood | the laser bug is a huge difference, very very significant |
| 23:18.25 | L4m3r | blast007: obviously. I'm just really curious as to how it actually works |
| 23:18.32 | blast007 | however, the laser would also move along with your tank, since a beam of light only lasts as long as it's being projected |
| 23:19.08 | L4m3r | I'm thinking more of the pulse |
| 23:19.17 | L4m3r | would the tip of the laser beam move laterally? :P |
| 23:19.35 | blast007 | yeah |
| 23:19.54 | blast007 | think of attaching a flashlight to the side of your car as you drive ;) |
| 23:20.00 | WeBeGood | you could do that too, but it is more than one line of code |
| 23:20.12 | L4m3r | not worth the effort |
| 23:20.14 | blast007 | WeBeGood: yeah, and it would change a lot more of the functionality |
| 23:20.18 | L4m3r | and actually, it'd be impractical |
| 23:20.26 | L4m3r | afaik, rendering of laser/th is instant |
| 23:20.35 | WeBeGood | The simpliest fix works fine |
| 23:20.51 | L4m3r | there is no real speed... the shotadvel is used to calculate the range |
| 23:21.39 | blast007 | L4m3r: well, if we wanted it truely realistic, 1) it would not have a fixed starting location, but it would be at the tip of the tank throughout the "firing phase" and 2) we'd have to replace the brick textures with mirrors ;) |
| 23:21.54 | L4m3r | lol |
| 23:22.15 | L4m3r | I don't want to make the game that realistic... I'm just curious as to how it work in real life |
| 23:22.29 | L4m3r | i.e. will the travelling photon be affected by the velocity of its source |
| 23:22.54 | blast007 | I would think so |
| 23:22.59 | L4m3r | but I'm no good with all that quantum mechanical nonsense |
| 23:23.01 | blast007 | just not very much |
| 23:23.32 | blast007 | since the light that has been projected will continue to shine further distances |
| 23:23.39 | WeBeGood | Fixing the laser to turn with the tank would be really coo, also make the laser much more powerful than it already is |
| 23:24.07 | L4m3r | curved lasers would be a pain |
| 23:24.10 | WeBeGood | Pulse of laser, like it is makes it just a very powerful flag |
| 23:24.13 | Winny | anyone know where apache hides mod_dav_svn.so? |
| 23:24.13 | blast007 | basically think of it like the stars in the sky. the stars are moving, and what we see there now from our perspective, they have already moved from that location (or maybe exploded or burt out by now) |
| 23:24.28 | WeBeGood | Lasers do not curve |
| 23:24.47 | L4m3r | well, more like a "sweep" |
| 23:24.47 | Winny | light can bend |
| 23:24.52 | L4m3r | but it's overpowered as it is |
| 23:25.21 | *** join/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=temporal@about/essy/alarming/a-temp-dist) |
| 23:25.26 | blast007 | WeBeGood: what if you alter your velocity during the emission? |
| 23:25.27 | WeBeGood | Unless you are shooting very close to a black hole or thru something that refracts the light |
| 23:25.47 | blast007 | will the overall trajectory from a top view perspective not change slightly? |
| 23:26.24 | blast007 | if you are (for instance) moving at half the speed of light, firing a laser out the left side of the ship, would it not be arched backwards at an angle? |
| 23:26.32 | blast007 | angled* |
| 23:26.34 | *** part/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=temporal@about/essy/alarming/a-temp-dist) |
| 23:26.46 | WeBeGood | It would over distances as large as the solar system |
| 23:27.07 | blast007 | wouldn't it even be visible out the side window? |
| 23:30.29 | WeBeGood | blast, not in a tank, the vector math of adding tank velocity 10 M/s to that of light 300,000, that tank velocity is really insignificant |
| 23:31.07 | WeBeGood | What is SRT? |
| 23:31.26 | DTRemenak | a moving source emitting an orthogonal beam of light does not cause the motion to be imparted on the beam |
| 23:31.32 | DTRemenak | err STR |
| 23:31.37 | DTRemenak | special theory of relativity |
| 23:31.59 | WeBeGood | In a space game, this is a tank |
| 23:32.12 | DTRemenak | c is constant. if light moves transversely then the vector changes, raising c, or altering the direction of the light |
| 23:33.03 | DTRemenak | in other words, light CANNOT travel transversely (it can only travel at a different vector) |
| 23:33.29 | DTRemenak | and yeah, bz's sim is totally wrong. the tank should be treated as if it was stationary |
| 23:33.41 | DTRemenak | but that doesn't mean it should be fixed :) |
| 23:35.09 | WeBeGood | a tangent has just been released. The lasers, theif and Rapid Fire should be fixed. The it's orders and orders of magnitude more that STR |
| 23:35.35 | WeBeGood | LaserErrorr >>>>>>>>>> STR effects |
| 23:35.56 | DTRemenak | like I said, the tank should be treated as if it were stationary if you want accurate simulation |
| 23:35.56 | WeBeGood | anybody want to discuss this on lasermaina? |
| 23:36.16 | blast007 | no |
| 23:36.21 | WeBeGood | so everyone can see what it looks like, and see why it needs fixed |
| 23:36.21 | DTRemenak | the question is not what behavior is more accurate, it's what behavior is more FUN |
| 23:36.58 | WeBeGood | Very true, it is more Fun to see what you are shooting at, it is more Fun |
| 23:37.08 | WeBeGood | to watch what you hit blow up |
| 23:37.18 | blast007 | well, I know it's quite hard to aim with the laser when you're sideways on a conveyer belt |
| 23:37.20 | WeBeGood | So, it needs fixed |
| 23:37.48 | WeBeGood | Yes, and the laser should be shooting whatever is in the cross hairs |
| 23:38.01 | DTRemenak | that's one opinion, but not the only one |
| 23:38.10 | WeBeGood | And, whatever is in the cross hairs should blow up |
| 23:38.49 | DTRemenak | I know a number of people who love the ability to reflect laser off of the ground and/or ceiling with _shotsKeepVerticalVelocity, for instance |
| 23:39.03 | WeBeGood | Very true, DTR, but I hope it's ok with you if I try to convince you that the laser should be fixed. |
| 23:39.21 | DTRemenak | I'm not saying you're wrong :) |
| 23:39.47 | DTRemenak | I'm just wondering if you've considered the other side of the coin |
| 23:39.52 | WeBeGood | This has nothing to do with laser reflections, i like them, they would not change, server dependant |
| 23:40.30 | WeBeGood | the other error I talked about has to do with _shotsKeepVerticalVelocity, the thief flag ang rapid fire have a bug |
| 23:40.54 | WeBeGood | I just like things to be correct. |
| 23:41.09 | DTRemenak | where correct means...? |
| 23:43.02 | WeBeGood | The physics are correct for the type of game, to a resonable number of "significant" digets. |
| 23:43.13 | WeBeGood | digits that is |
| 23:43.46 | Winny | This isn't suppost to be a simulator, last I heard... perhaps the "straight" firing laser could be a server option? |
| 23:43.50 | DTRemenak | so then I suppose you want tanks to turn when they hit a building at an angle too? and keep their momentum after they land from a jump? |
| 23:43.53 | DTRemenak | lemme put it this way: laser is functioning as it was intended to function. there is no bug. it is clearly not functioning the way you would like it to. that still does not make it a bug. |
| 23:44.43 | WeBeGood | It's a client bug, server cannot correct it |
| 23:45.15 | Winny | " there is no bug." |
| 23:45.53 | WeBeGood | DTR, if bzflag is a living open source tank game, then eventually it will bounce of walls some time in the future. |
| 23:45.54 | DTRemenak | it's a valid feature request. maybe it would be less confusing if we changed it. |
| 23:46.07 | WeBeGood | the tank that is. |
| 23:46.47 | DTRemenak | bzflag is not designed as a physics simulator, not even remotely |
| 23:46.50 | WeBeGood | If bzflag is a dead open source project, then it will stagnate (never could spell), and eventually die |
| 23:47.16 | DTRemenak | certain things are intentionally different from the real world |
| 23:47.24 | WeBeGood | It's not a simulator, i agree |
| 23:47.27 | Winny | So either it dies, or the tanks bounce off walls? |
| 23:47.39 | DTRemenak | laser is one of those things that is intentionally different |
| 23:48.27 | WeBeGood | these differences are due to expediance (spelling), time involved, coding,... |
| 23:48.38 | blast007 | most games aren't designed to be realistic. Normally, you can't drive your car off a building, roll over 5 times, and keep driving. |
| 23:48.47 | DTRemenak | NO, they are not. they are DESIGN differences. |
| 23:49.11 | DTRemenak | in some cases it makes it harder to code |
| 23:49.15 | JeffM | uhoh, DTRemenak with all capps, someone is being stupid |
| 23:49.18 | WeBeGood | If your going to call it a laser, it should act like a laser, not something else. |
| 23:49.23 | DTRemenak | if you want to fork it to "correct" those design decisions, you're always welcome to. otherwise, they're feature requests that will be discussed before they're implemented, not bugfixes. |
| 23:49.39 | Winny | WeBeGood, if it's a tank, it shouldn't jump by that reasoning |
| 23:49.43 | DTRemenak | then maybe your feature request should be "rename laser because it doesn't act like a laser" |
| 23:49.51 | JeffM | WeBeGood: if you want to make your own tank game, have at it, let us know when you are done. untill then just accept that bzflag is the way it is because of choices. |
| 23:49.58 | WeBeGood | Changing the name of the flag from laser to something else would be acceptable. |
| 23:50.18 | JeffM | acceptable? |
| 23:50.20 | JeffM | to who? |
| 23:50.21 | JeffM | you? |
| 23:50.41 | WeBeGood | Sorry, didn't mean to get anyone upset |
| 23:50.53 | WeBeGood | I like the game |
| 23:51.03 | WeBeGood | I think it should be improved |
| 23:51.17 | JeffM | it is not mean to be a sim |
| 23:51.27 | WeBeGood | I think it's a great learning tool for young people to learn programing |
| 23:51.33 | WeBeGood | I like open source |
| 23:51.37 | JeffM | you do? |
| 23:51.41 | WeBeGood | yes |
| 23:51.45 | JeffM | wow, you must want them to become crap programers then |
| 23:51.54 | WeBeGood | why? |
| 23:51.59 | DTRemenak | WeBeGood: I understand that. Thank you for making suggestions. I just think you need to realize that it's not designed to be exactly the way you would seem to like it to be. |
| 23:52.46 | WeBeGood | I offered to discuss this on the lasermainia map, sometimes it helps to see what we are talking about. |
| 23:53.04 | Winny | We know what is being discussed. |
| 23:53.11 | DTRemenak | JeffM: actually code that is clearly crap is frequently a good learning tool...it's a lot easier to "play around" when you realize that replacing something, even with poor skills, is not going to make it worse :) |
| 23:53.32 | WeBeGood | yeah |
| 23:53.42 | WeBeGood | lol, i agree with that one. |
| 23:54.11 | JeffM | well the laser looks more like a laser in 3.0 |
| 23:54.21 | JeffM | but if you want it to be real, then you'd make it not blow tanks up ;) |
| 23:54.25 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 23:55.07 | WeBeGood | Why should I bother to debug something, if the bugs never get fixed. I like debugging things, but not coding particularly. |
| 23:55.25 | DTRemenak | you're welcome to debug. just make sure you find bugs, not features ;) |
| 23:55.35 | DTRemenak | reporting it was not wrong |
| 23:55.36 | blast007 | debug 2.99.x, cuz it needs it ;) |
| 23:55.41 | DTRemenak | providing a patch was not wrong |
| 23:55.53 | DTRemenak | insisting that it is a bug, when it was designed that way, is wrong |
| 23:56.31 | JeffM | what feature did he say was a bug? |
| 23:56.50 | DTRemenak | lasers keeping the transverse velocity of the tank |
| 23:56.52 | WeBeGood | DTR, does this open source project have a design document, I'd like to change that also.... |
| 23:57.01 | DTRemenak | i.e. on sliding surfaces, or during jumping with SKVV on |
| 23:57.11 | JeffM | WeBeGood: nope |
| 23:57.30 | WeBeGood | lol, it's open source, i didn't think so. |
| 23:57.39 | Winny | change it to what? "this is wrong because I think so"? |
| 23:58.01 | JeffM | many open source projects do |
| 23:58.22 | JeffM | but just because it's open source does not mean that anyone can make changes and have them accepted. |
| 23:58.34 | WeBeGood | Yes, understandable, I imagine the linux kernal might be one of them |
| 23:58.44 | DTRemenak | WeBeGood: mostly your approach to convince us is wrong. "this is not the way it works in reality" is not a good approach; "the current behavior is not fun, and this would be more fun" is a good way. |
| 23:58.46 | JeffM | depeends on the project |
| 23:59.09 | WeBeGood | It affects the game play too. |
| 23:59.14 | DTRemenak | I'm aware of that |
| 23:59.20 | DTRemenak | does it affect it positively, or negatively |
| 23:59.28 | *** join/#bzflag uso (n=uso@84-72-8-253.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 23:59.37 | DTRemenak | I gave an example of a group of people who like the effect it has |
| 23:59.43 | WeBeGood | I agree, the current behavior is not fun. |