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| 00:46.55 | TD-Linux | yay Epyon you fixed my texturepath hack :) |
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| 02:16.13 | blast007 | AAA_awright: I think Jeff had added some plugin auto-loader stuff to Windows |
| 02:16.19 | blast007 | search the code |
| 02:16.43 | AAA_awright | blast007: I do remember that, but I thought you had to specify a directory first |
| 02:17.02 | AAA_awright | it was some -set option which I got upset about? |
| 02:21.48 | blast007 | shrugs |
| 02:22.50 | AAA_awright | time to git-blame |
| 02:25.40 | AAA_awright | Revision 4979 by JeffM2501: build an OPTIONAL(for non windows) automaticly scanned dir for plug-ins. define _WANT_AUTO_LOAD_PLUG_INS to use it. |
| 02:26.32 | AAA_awright | The two problems are (a) I am using windoes and (b) it doesn't appear optional, or at least opt-in |
| 02:27.08 | AAA_awright | searches revision history for "_WANT_AUTO_LOAD_PLUG_INS" |
| 02:28.59 | blast007 | search your source for that define |
| 02:29.23 | blast007 | maybe someone turned it on by accident |
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| 02:53.03 | Winny | how does SF do its CIA notifications? |
| 02:53.05 | Winny | email? |
| 02:53.54 | blast007 | it uses a commit hook |
| 02:53.56 | blast007 | afaik |
| 02:54.10 | Winny | ah |
| 02:54.20 | blast007 | that script might send an email though |
| 02:54.32 | blast007 | not sure how it triggers it, if it's an email, or a URL request |
| 02:54.54 | Winny | I've been trying for the past couple hours to get a supplied python script to notify CIA |
| 02:55.06 | blast007 | for SVN? |
| 02:55.07 | Winny | I'm not sure if its notifying him and he's not responding, or what |
| 02:55.09 | Winny | yeah |
| 02:55.35 | blast007 | well check on the CIA.vc page to see if the message it getting to the site at all |
| 02:55.45 | blast007 | the site tells the bots what to say |
| 02:57.10 | Winny | doesn't seem to be |
| 02:57.14 | Winny | which is odd |
| 02:57.23 | AAA_awright | There is a commit hook that sends an email to CIA |
| 02:57.29 | AAA_awright | hugs CIA-33 |
| 02:57.29 | CIA-33 | hugs AAA_awright |
| 02:57.32 | AAA_awright | hm |
| 02:57.37 | Winny | since I've put the call to the script in the post-commit hook |
| 02:58.08 | AAA_awright | Oh, didn't check, that auto-load constant is in r14985 and r14979 |
| 02:59.11 | blast007 | what file? |
| 02:59.34 | AAA_awright | MSVC/VC71/config.h and src/bzfs/bzfsPlugins.cxx |
| 02:59.46 | blast007 | what compiler are you building with? |
| 02:59.59 | AAA_awright | Funny, I am using 80 |
| 03:00.09 | blast007 | oh duh, I was looking at 2.0.x.. |
| 03:00.13 | AAA_awright | Yeah, trunk |
| 03:00.16 | AAA_awright | Didn't update both versions, is that the issue? |
| 03:00.38 | blast007 | I'm checking |
| 03:01.29 | brlcad | Winny: do you have an sf project or is this your own repository? |
| 03:01.34 | Winny | own |
| 03:01.53 | brlcad | do you have the cia notify script? |
| 03:02.07 | JeffM | Winny: they should have a CIA script in place |
| 03:02.11 | Winny | ciabot_svn.py is the one I got |
| 03:02.17 | JeffM | IIRC they provide one by default |
| 03:02.39 | blast007 | AAA_awright: I'm not seeing that define anywhere |
| 03:02.46 | blast007 | where are you seeing it with current code? |
| 03:03.14 | Winny | I did it with a different repo before and it worked... what am I forgetting |
| 03:03.32 | brlcad | Winny: the svn project and cia project must match, else you have to provide the mapping name |
| 03:03.34 | Winny | do you need to tell the repo to look at the post-commit hook? |
| 03:04.22 | JeffM | AAA_awright: I rarely update vc7 with changes these days |
| 03:04.30 | JeffM | it's on the verge of being desuported. |
| 03:04.32 | JeffM | just so you know |
| 03:04.40 | brlcad | Winny: what are your commit hook params? |
| 03:05.31 | Winny | http://pastebin.ca/1029529 |
| 03:05.50 | AAA_awright | It isn't in trunk, funny |
| 03:05.58 | Winny | which is what http://cia.vc/clients/svn/ciabot_svn.py tells you to do |
| 03:06.28 | Winny | er, ignore that pastebin |
| 03:06.31 | Winny | its an old one |
| 03:07.23 | brlcad | fwiw, bz's adds a couple more for the repo and revision |
| 03:07.34 | brlcad | ciabot_svn.py --revisionURI="http://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/bzflag/?view=rev&rev=%(revision)s" --repositoryURI=https://svnroot.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag "$1" "$2" "BZFlag" |
| 03:08.03 | Winny | hmm |
| 03:09.01 | Winny | I wonder if it has something to do with the fact that I switched repos? |
| 03:18.32 | Winny | sleeps on it |
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| 04:15.01 | forrestv | programming a bzflag client in python is so much fun :) |
| 04:15.18 | JeffM | it's been done before |
| 04:15.20 | JeffM | pybzflag |
| 04:23.06 | brlcad | gave him a minihistory yesterday |
| 04:23.48 | forrestv | JeffM, yes... not completely :) |
| 04:32.14 | JeffM | what are you going to do with it? |
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| 04:40.20 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Chestal] by ChanServ |
| 04:43.32 | L4m3r | what is so fun about Python? I've only toyed with it briefly... |
| 04:44.02 | forrestv | L4m3r, only ~3 hours work and i have net working with moving tanks showing up |
| 04:44.45 | L4m3r | oh my, has trunk protocol been bumped? |
| 04:48.03 | JeffM | who bumped it and why? |
| 04:51.32 | brlcad | thinks both those questions are answered in the commit message |
| 04:52.24 | L4m3r | is rebuilding his client |
| 04:52.30 | L4m3r | only my server builds daily :P |
| 04:55.13 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=const@unaffiliated/macsforme) |
| 04:56.06 | JeffM | shames on DTRemenak |
| 04:57.27 | JeffM | it was due to var checks L4m3r |
| 04:57.36 | brlcad | why? .. incrementing dev patch revision shouldn't (ever?) be an issue |
| 04:57.38 | JeffM | and DTRemenak did a poor job documenting it :) |
| 04:57.45 | L4m3r | heh |
| 04:57.50 | L4m3r | I just missed it |
| 04:57.51 | JeffM | brlcad: I mean his commit message, no mention of what change "it" was |
| 04:58.09 | DTRemenak | look at the previous revision's commit message then |
| 04:58.13 | JeffM | I did |
| 04:58.17 | JeffM | just took some digin :) |
| 04:58.20 | DTRemenak | heh |
| 04:58.28 | JeffM | and it wasn't at the same time as others so it was harder to find that's all |
| 04:58.33 | brlcad | read them as they came, so it all made sense |
| 04:58.49 | JeffM | I'm sure it does in forward linear flow :) |
| 04:58.52 | DTRemenak | yeah, it was a bit of an afterthought |
| 04:59.07 | JeffM | tends to jump around temporialy |
| 04:59.42 | L4m3r | looks like there are more daily build servers than I thought |
| 04:59.51 | L4m3r | only one remains on the old list |
| 05:01.05 | brlcad | still, though .. I'd think even "make people recompile because they haven't had to a in a while" would be a reasonable "reason" on a 99 version :) |
| 05:01.23 | brlcad | ideally with some background info like a lot of (maybe unrelated) changes, or just a lot of time |
| 05:01.39 | brlcad | both of which have happened |
| 05:01.57 | DTRemenak | yeah, it was time. the bugfix was just an excuse :) |
| 05:02.34 | L4m3r | hm... |
| 05:02.42 | L4m3r | not sure if this is a bug or intended behavior |
| 05:03.11 | L4m3r | but I just noticed on my test server did not set _radarLimit to reflect the non-default _worldSize |
| 05:03.18 | L4m3r | which is what I would expect in 2.0 |
| 05:10.30 | JeffM | brlcad: it is, was more curiostiy then anything |
| 05:12.38 | L4m3r | man, that hoody came at just the right time. it randomly got cold down here today. |
| 05:12.50 | JeffM | even rained a bit in places |
| 05:12.57 | JeffM | clouds were purdy today tho |
| 05:13.00 | JeffM | even up in ventura |
| 05:13.06 | think_tank | baseball sized hail reported in minnesota |
| 05:13.24 | JeffM | that's what it gets for being minnesota |
| 05:14.39 | brlcad | L4m3r: *gasp* 65? :) |
| 05:15.19 | L4m3r | brlcad: more like 55, but yeah... just a wee bit too cold for shorts and a T-shirt |
| 05:15.29 | JeffM | wind picked up too |
| 05:15.40 | JeffM | a hoodie would not be out of place even for you ;) |
| 05:16.27 | L4m3r | it took me a few minutes to realize that what I was feeling a few minutes ago was "cold" |
| 05:17.50 | brlcad | silly califolk coldites |
| 05:18.16 | JeffM | what is hot to you? |
| 05:18.27 | L4m3r | like, more than 75 :P |
| 05:18.30 | L4m3r | I like it cool |
| 05:18.41 | JeffM | I mean to brlcad |
| 05:18.58 | JeffM | take him to the valley on the 125 days :) |
| 05:18.58 | brlcad | 55's still flip-flop shorts weather to me .. course so are most temps above freezing .. then it's just flip-flop weather |
| 05:19.17 | L4m3r | yeah, around 30 is where I start to feel uncomfortable |
| 05:19.43 | L4m3r | but most of my peers start whining at 60 degrees, so that's not so bad :P |
| 05:20.09 | JeffM | I only wore jeans and a long sleve button down shirt today |
| 05:20.12 | JeffM | rolled up |
| 05:20.40 | brlcad | depends on the humidity, if it's high 90% then above 75 is uncomfortable, above 85 gets hot; if it's closer to zero then it's like +10-+30 those temps |
| 05:20.53 | JeffM | 85? |
| 05:21.00 | JeffM | wtf? |
| 05:21.06 | brlcad | 95 at like 99% humidity |
| 05:21.11 | JeffM | 85 is when it starts gettting NICE :) |
| 05:21.12 | brlcad | er, 85 |
| 05:21.16 | JeffM | at any humidity |
| 05:21.22 | L4m3r | 80s, meh |
| 05:21.24 | brlcad | nah, that's balmy nasty |
| 05:21.37 | JeffM | well we NEVER had 100% here |
| 05:21.41 | brlcad | cali is so dry, do you realize how much a factor that is? :) |
| 05:21.48 | JeffM | even tho it is semi-arid, tis still a desert |
| 05:21.55 | L4m3r | I guess when you're well-insulated and rely on a bicycle for transportation, you're inclined to prefer cooler temperatures |
| 05:21.56 | JeffM | Thanks Colorado! :) |
| 05:23.51 | brlcad | was in yuma a couple years ago and it was about 120 .. that feel comfortably mild with the utter lack of humidity .. I'd take that over a tropic 80 @ 99% any day |
| 05:24.05 | forrestv | how does bzfs determine when a player is not responding? |
| 05:24.16 | brlcad | forrestv: ping packets |
| 05:25.51 | forrestv | brlcad, i'm resending MsgLagPing packets. is there anything with MsgPlayerUpdate packets? |
| 05:26.15 | JeffM | we generaly don't help cheaters here, I'd recomend you read the sources. |
| 05:26.56 | think_tank | ~JeffM++ |
| 05:27.45 | L4m3r | oh, I forgot who that was |
| 05:28.47 | Flash | is a norang admin about? |
| 05:29.10 | think_tank | Flash, how can i help you |
| 05:29.23 | Flash | there's a guy verb who has the TK cheat |
| 05:29.33 | Flash | I'm not even spawned, but I'm tk'ing people |
| 05:29.42 | Flash | earlier he tried to join with 20 robots |
| 05:30.17 | think_tank | ok i am there and will take care of it. thanks |
| 05:40.07 | Flash | I guess I'm special, because I seem to be the only one targeted for the tks |
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| 05:50.40 | mib_6zykhy | can a physics driver in mapmaking be applied to a face of a mesh? |
| 05:50.56 | JeffM | yep |
| 05:51.26 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@pool-71-109-223-10.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 05:57.52 | Flash | ~think_tank++ |
| 05:59.17 | Flash | ~think_tank++ |
| 05:59.25 | think_tank | heh |
| 05:59.31 | think_tank | you don't have to thank me each time i ban him |
| 06:00.03 | Constitution | ~think_tank++ |
| 06:00.13 | think_tank | :P |
| 06:00.31 | think_tank | he's a resillient abuser though, i'll give him that. changed his ip and came right back |
| 06:01.16 | Constitution | hostbans ftw |
| 06:04.40 | think_tank | hostbans ftl |
| 06:04.45 | think_tank | texas.res.rr.com. biggie |
| 06:04.50 | JeffM | so? |
| 06:05.05 | think_tank | norang doesn't have a whitelist |
| 06:05.14 | JeffM | he's probably only in a couple subnets |
| 06:05.18 | JeffM | just do range bans |
| 06:05.28 | think_tank | yup |
| 06:05.34 | JeffM | leave the ban untill someone else complains |
| 06:05.35 | think_tank | preferred over hostbans for larger hosts |
| 06:05.38 | JeffM | then pull it if you have to |
| 06:06.53 | AAA_awright | Flash: You are knowledgeable about this sort of stuff :) I have this ACL implementation I am making for MasterBot... |
| 06:08.17 | AAA_awright | http://aaa.busyflag.org/masterbot/masterbotd/ acl.h/cpp I don't know if my class templates are going to get me into trouble later on |
| 06:09.30 | AAA_awright | It is a bit different from bzflag because there are multiple objects I am controlling (read: restricting) access to, unlike bzfs which only has one object |
| 06:10.29 | JeffM | AAA_awright, you are doing windows only stuff? |
| 06:10.37 | AAA_awright | I also have different types of objects with different permission names, hence the templates |
| 06:10.39 | AAA_awright | JeffM: No |
| 06:10.41 | JeffM | NM |
| 06:10.46 | AAA_awright | k |
| 06:10.46 | JeffM | I thought I read ATL :) |
| 06:10.52 | JeffM | not ACL :) |
| 06:11.10 | Constitution | think_tank: thing is, you don't always know how much the IP is going to vary (unless you have some kind of log summary feature), so you don't know what range to ban... hostbans pretty much get the whole thing |
| 06:11.11 | AAA_awright | :) |
| 06:13.34 | think_tank | yes hostbans will definitely be effective, assuming access is limited to only one host, but ip range bans can be useful to remove a player with precision from a larger group, albeit not always as effectively |
| 06:13.54 | think_tank | but without the risk of refusing innocent players access |
| 06:14.35 | think_tank | it also depends on the server owner's preferences, which i'm trying to abide by as well...as we have no whitelisst |
| 06:14.57 | Constitution | glares at Thumper_ and donny_baker |
| 06:16.04 | Flash | AAA_awright: what's your question? |
| 06:17.14 | AAA_awright | uh |
| 06:18.39 | AAA_awright | Flash: I am not sure if I am using class templates right, that's all |
| 06:19.02 | Flash | neither am I |
| 06:19.38 | Flash | templates are useful when the sequence of instructions you want to reuse are identical except for the types of some values |
| 06:19.48 | AAA_awright | Heh |
| 06:20.02 | AAA_awright | That doesn't exactly fit my need |
| 06:20.08 | Flash | I can't deduce a design from the classes in your header file; I'd suggest some comments |
| 06:20.09 | AAA_awright | sound like it I mean |
| 06:20.46 | Flash | you should be able to talk through what you want to accomplish before you start creating classes |
| 06:22.05 | Flash | also, I'd choose more descriptive names |
| 06:22.19 | Flash | since JeffM isn't here, I can say that his names are pretty good |
| 06:23.16 | Flash | as an aside, I strongly discourage "using namespace std" in a header file |
| 06:23.29 | AAA_awright | That is in there/ |
| 06:23.30 | Flash | don't be lazy, type the extra 5 characters |
| 06:24.17 | AAA_awright | I don't really like the concept of name spaces to begin with |
| 06:24.36 | Flash | you should change your likes; they are both useful and necessary |
| 06:25.06 | AAA_awright | The whole thing is I am using it, I say yeah, type out the entire name |
| 06:25.09 | Flash | namespace pollution is a significant issue in larger projects, or projects that incorporate 3rd party libs |
| 06:25.20 | AAA_awright | But it saves 5 whole characters! |
| 06:26.47 | AAA_awright | Well, except for XML namespaces. Those are cool. |
| 06:27.21 | AAA_awright | In my ideal language, I would support namespaces very loosely, that is each file would be isolated from each other entirely, to refer to something external, you have to specify which external resource |
| 06:27.49 | AAA_awright | and you would be able to do stuff like prepending a name to everything in an included block/resource. |
| 06:28.03 | AAA_awright | Or removing a common prefix. |
| 06:28.05 | AAA_awright | hm... |
| 06:28.19 | Flash | prepending a name like std:: ?? |
| 06:28.54 | AAA_awright | something easier |
| 06:29.31 | Flash | thinks AAA_awright likes to tilt at windmills |
| 06:29.53 | AAA_awright | ns std { require <string>; } it would prepend std_ to all symbols |
| 06:30.17 | AAA_awright | _ would be the namespace seperator, thus forcing you to use camelCase |
| 06:30.50 | AAA_awright | I am undecided about curly braces, I think tab indenting for marking blocks of code is pretty cool |
| 06:31.36 | Flash | but you hate python |
| 06:31.50 | AAA_awright | Python didn't invent that I don't think |
| 06:31.59 | AAA_awright | Even so, that is the one cool thing about it |
| 06:32.39 | AAA_awright | and I would not use the member access thing that current OO does, object->function, I quite like the function(object, argument) syntax that plain C required |
| 06:32.47 | Flash | a language should not enforce stylistic preferences if it can avoid it |
| 06:33.00 | AAA_awright | It means you can add your own functions without needing to modify the class description |
| 06:33.17 | Flash | you don't believe in scope either, I guess |
| 06:33.30 | AAA_awright | While true, the benefit of an enforced style greatly outweighs the mess of, say, perl |
| 06:33.32 | AAA_awright | ducks |
| 06:34.09 | AAA_awright | I love scope, a very strict scope. Anything outside the current block of code must be identified as such. |
| 06:34.30 | Flash | what about access restrictions? |
| 06:35.35 | AAA_awright | Don't care. I would have meta-comments document which functions are for users and which ones are internal use only |
| 06:35.46 | AAA_awright | but it shouldn't be enforced |
| 06:36.22 | AAA_awright | I like strict typing, catches so many bugs that pop up with PHP and the like |
| 06:36.29 | Flash | how can I put this politely and delicately..... you are an idiot... no, that's not it..... |
| 06:36.38 | AAA_awright | if you want dynamic typing, it should be declared as such |
| 06:36.57 | Flash | naive is probably better |
| 06:36.59 | AAA_awright | Flash: Heh |
| 06:37.20 | Flash | did you ever have to debug FORTRAN global issues? |
| 06:37.27 | AAA_awright | Uh |
| 06:37.30 | AAA_awright | no? |
| 06:37.54 | Flash | trust me, having access to class data restricted to member functions is a HUGE benefit |
| 06:38.02 | Flash | globals are evil |
| 06:38.26 | Flash | and dynamically creating "member" functions is just begging for trouble |
| 06:38.40 | Flash | encapsulation and cohesion are your friends |
| 06:38.45 | Flash | coupling is not |
| 06:38.48 | AAA_awright | I would probably have some sort of identifier that says make this function visible to only these other friends |
| 06:39.08 | Flash | like "public:"? |
| 06:39.20 | *** join/#bzflag Gilly (n=btw@83.146.211.140) |
| 06:39.44 | AAA_awright | kinda? I don't have traditional classes, see, just structures that functions operate on. |
| 06:40.00 | Flash | what do you think the difference is? |
| 06:40.19 | Flash | a class is nothing more than a set of data and the methods that operate on that data |
| 06:40.24 | AAA_awright | I guess you could call object->function(arg1, arg2) as an alias to function(object, arg1, arg2) |
| 06:40.52 | Flash | except the first form can be checked by the compiler to see if it exists |
| 06:40.59 | Flash | in python, either form is allowed |
| 06:41.11 | AAA_awright | This isn't something I have explored entirely |
| 06:41.12 | Flash | but you can add methods to a class at runtime in Python |
| 06:41.18 | Flash | very dangerous.... |
| 06:41.40 | AAA_awright | (Go away Python. No one wants you) |
| 06:41.51 | AAA_awright | (Ruby ftw) |
| 06:42.12 | Flash | I think Python: Ruby as C: C++ |
| 06:42.38 | mib_6zykhy | as vb: anything ! |
| 06:42.59 | Flash | really? is vb like anything else? |
| 06:43.54 | AAA_awright | Ruby rocks, everything is an object, plus they didn't break the = operator. Oh, and the ! is amazing. |
| 06:48.14 | AAA_awright | The killer feature of my language: |
| 06:48.39 | AAA_awright | I would expand on ruby's !, to entirely replace the ++ -- += -= /= etc... operators |
| 06:49.14 | AAA_awright | a+1! would find a+1, and assign it to all the variables before ! |
| 06:49.39 | AAA_awright | a+! would be the same as a++ in C |
| 06:49.52 | Lukstr | so what's the benefit? |
| 06:50.16 | AAA_awright | You can do stuff like urnencode(string)! and it urlencodes string |
| 06:50.26 | AAA_awright | No more self-assignment |
| 06:50.30 | AAA_awright | :) |
| 06:50.30 | Lukstr | O.o |
| 06:51.23 | Lukstr | I still don't see any benefit |
| 06:51.24 | mib_6zykhy | vb is cool cos it has the shortest "hello world" program |
| 06:51.28 | AAA_awright | a*5! is the same as a*=5 |
| 06:51.41 | ruskie | both are 4 chars long... |
| 06:51.41 | Lukstr | right |
| 06:51.47 | ruskie | so what's the difference... |
| 06:51.54 | AAA_awright | but it is more versatile, because you can use any function for example, strtolower(string)! |
| 06:51.56 | ruskie | notes he likes ruby but still sees no point in that one |
| 06:52.01 | AAA_awright | and it makes the string lowercase |
| 06:52.08 | ruskie | ahh |
| 06:52.14 | AAA_awright | This is my language, ruby isn't exactly like that |
| 06:52.22 | ruskie | ahh |
| 06:52.38 | Lukstr | that's a bit silly, methinks |
| 06:52.48 | Lukstr | it's just an obfuscated way of saying string = strtolower(string) |
| 06:53.00 | ruskie | :) |
| 06:53.12 | AAA_awright | Yeah. But it replaces the whole variety of x= operators |
| 06:53.16 | ruskie | some people think obfuscated things are good |
| 06:53.21 | Lukstr | why is that useful, AAA_awright ? |
| 06:53.30 | AAA_awright | less operators |
| 06:53.34 | Lukstr | why is that good? |
| 06:53.49 | Lukstr | in the good ol' days, it was x = x + 5 |
| 06:53.52 | AAA_awright | how many operator x () functions does C have? C++? |
| 06:53.56 | AAA_awright | er, C++? |
| 06:53.59 | mib_6zykhy | YEAH GO VB |
| 06:54.12 | AAA_awright | It's... redundant... |
| 06:54.15 | Lukstr | mib_6zykhy: not referring to Visual Basic ;) |
| 06:55.23 | Lukstr | AAA_awright: what would ' x = free(y)!' do? |
| 06:55.33 | AAA_awright | tricky |
| 06:55.49 | AAA_awright | x and y would be assigned to free(y) |
| 06:56.42 | Lukstr | okay, so wait |
| 06:56.49 | Lukstr | if you have a function that returns a different type |
| 06:56.50 | Lukstr | like |
| 06:57.00 | Lukstr | isLowercase returns bool, for example |
| 06:57.01 | Lukstr | and you do |
| 06:57.05 | Lukstr | isLowercase(string)! |
| 06:57.08 | Lukstr | what happens? |
| 06:57.20 | AAA_awright | Mhm |
| 06:57.22 | AAA_awright | *fizzle* |
| 06:57.46 | AAA_awright | If it was dynamically typed like most languages are now, it would change the type |
| 06:57.55 | Lukstr | right |
| 06:58.08 | Lukstr | is this actually used in a language? |
| 06:58.09 | AAA_awright | I like static types though, less bugs, so it would cast probably, or throw a warning |
| 07:00.04 | Lukstr | One single argument against what you propose is the ! being a reserved operator already |
| 07:00.33 | Lukstr | if(toLowercase(string)!=string) |
| 07:00.39 | Lukstr | that's incredibly ambiguous |
| 07:00.45 | AAA_awright | Anything that changes the type would probably fail and throw a warning, it really should only be used for transforming functions like lowercase() or filter() or clampToRange(a, 0, 5) |
| 07:01.06 | AAA_awright | So is if(i++ == ++i) |
| 07:01.31 | Lukstr | not in the same sense |
| 07:02.13 | Lukstr | (toLowercase(string) != string) and (toLowercase(string)! = string) are to different things entirely |
| 07:02.18 | Lukstr | according to your spec |
| 07:02.40 | AAA_awright | It would work left to right, assign (string=toLowercase(String))==String |
| 07:05.23 | AAA_awright | in which case, it always returns true |
| 07:05.41 | AAA_awright | erm, false |
| 07:05.43 | Lukstr | either way |
| 07:06.13 | AAA_awright | Oh, syntax wise? |
| 07:06.14 | Lukstr | the bang operator isn't designed to deprecate the ++ or -- or += operators |
| 07:06.46 | Lukstr | ruby is special |
| 07:07.26 | AAA_awright | I really don't know too much about Ruby, I am a beginner. |
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| 07:08.38 | AAA_awright | Well, Later |
| 07:09.02 | Lukstr | later |
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| 07:51.56 | BulletCatcher | L4m3r: _radarLimit does not track changes to _worldSize because StateDatabase::set() doesn't notify() recursively as needed. I have a quick fix for this specific problem, but have not gotten around to a more general solution. |
| 07:52.42 | L4m3r | I'm not sure that running /set should also set any dependent variables |
| 07:53.17 | L4m3r | but traditionally it has worked recursively when vars are set in the server conf |
| 07:53.57 | BulletCatcher | Hmm. I'll have to look further into how it changed from 2.0. |
| 07:54.32 | L4m3r | then again, it could have something to do with the nested confs used on that test server |
| 07:54.50 | BulletCatcher | It's not just your server. |
| 07:55.12 | L4m3r | ah, heh |
| 07:58.06 | BulletCatcher | It seems to me that even a real-time /set command ought to make changes ripple through the dependencies. Can you think of a case where it shouldn't? |
| 08:03.15 | L4m3r | eh, that's subject to opinion |
| 08:05.13 | L4m3r | well that's just weird |
| 08:05.55 | L4m3r | in 2.0.11, setting _worldSize does not affect _radarLimit, but _jumpVelocity does affect _wingsJumpVelocity |
| 08:10.18 | L4m3r | yeesh |
| 08:10.42 | L4m3r | well one thing is certain... bzfs does WEIRD things when you set _worldsize in-game. O_o |
| 08:10.57 | BulletCatcher | I don't think that is supposed to work at all. |
| 08:11.12 | L4m3r | it does, sort of, but not really |
| 08:11.22 | L4m3r | seems to work only if the players have cycled from the server |
| 08:11.48 | L4m3r | but spawn bounds are effective immediately, so any poor sucker who joins before then gets spawned out of bounds |
| 08:11.57 | BulletCatcher | :-) |
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| 08:15.08 | BulletCatcher | I recall previous discussions about the possibility of dynamically changing a map layout, and it seemed that it would be Hard To Do. |
| 08:15.11 | BulletCatcher | It definitely is not something we currently support. |
| 08:46.31 | Manu | :) |
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| 12:34.43 | Darklustxx | O.O |
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| 14:41.30 | AAA_awright | C++ templates are amazing! |
| 14:41.33 | AAA_awright | There. Said it. |
| 14:44.16 | AAA_awright | Polymorphic enumerations ftw |
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| 15:12.54 | Lukstr | waves |
| 15:17.43 | whodaman | waves back |
| 15:18.24 | blast007 | does the wave |
| 15:19.34 | F687s | visits the wave pool |
| 15:25.33 | Lukstr | curse these waves |
| 15:25.40 | Lukstr | what if I... |
| 15:25.45 | Lukstr | greets |
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| 15:40.53 | *** join/#bzflag smallfoot- (n=moo@unaffiliated/smallfoot-) |
| 15:41.03 | smallfoot- | plz new release |
| 15:41.10 | smallfoot- | 2.0.10 is old |
| 15:41.56 | blast007 | smallfoot-: uh |
| 15:42.11 | blast007 | why do you always come in here and say we should release a new version? |
| 15:42.17 | blast007 | do you ever help? |
| 15:42.53 | blast007 | it's open-source. You can help us move towards a release just like anyone else. |
| 15:43.12 | blast007 | on that note, we *are* working to get a 3.0.0 version out "soon" |
| 15:43.29 | smallfoot- | i cant help, i dont knows anything |
| 15:43.31 | blast007 | but we can use people that test the code and find/report bugs |
| 15:43.38 | smallfoot- | oh, ihope it come 3.0 soon, it will be cool :D |
| 15:43.41 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 15:43.43 | blast007 | smallfoot-: sure you can help |
| 15:43.48 | smallfoot- | how? |
| 15:43.50 | blast007 | you don't have to know C++ to help |
| 15:43.51 | smallfoot- | i cant paint or code |
| 15:44.04 | blast007 | if you can at least build the game and run it, and then test it, that can be a help |
| 15:44.45 | blast007 | I'd recommend getting TortoiseSVN and checking our the latest SVN trunk |
| 15:45.14 | blast007 | our SVN info is here: http://my.bzflag.org/w/SVN |
| 15:45.49 | smallfoot- | sounds tricky, they should make binaries |
| 15:46.23 | whodaman | lol... |
| 15:47.01 | blast007 | no, YOU should make binaries |
| 15:47.10 | blast007 | ;) |
| 15:47.29 | blast007 | it's not our job to buld it for you after every change we make |
| 15:48.25 | smallfoot- | oh |
| 15:48.34 | blast007 | if you do build it, you could try out the new flags (Low Gravity and Cloaked Shot) |
| 15:48.39 | smallfoot- | they should have nightly autocompile script |
| 15:48.59 | blast007 | some people have an autocompile for their server |
| 15:51.12 | smallfoot- | oh |
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| 15:53.42 | AAA_awright | I am kinda working on a BZFlag source toolserver that would do nightly builds and source code searching and the like |
| 15:55.04 | blast007 | AAA_awright: windows builds? |
| 15:55.22 | AAA_awright | Probably not... can gcc do that? |
| 15:55.51 | blast007 | could cross-compile, but meh |
| 15:55.59 | blast007 | then you'd have an SDL build |
| 15:59.15 | AAA_awright | Is SDL bad? |
| 15:59.23 | AAA_awright | Oh, yes you can cross-compile for systems |
| 15:59.47 | AAA_awright | --target=i586-pc-cygwin32 looks like |
| 15:59.50 | AAA_awright | tries |
| 16:01.54 | Lukstr | SDL is delicious |
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| 16:10.21 | blast007 | AAA_awright: using SDL takes away a lot of features on Windows |
| 16:10.48 | AAA_awright | What libraries do you need installed on Windoes to get a "proper" build? |
| 16:11.16 | AAA_awright | I mean, what Windoes^H^Hws libraries do you need? |
| 16:11.56 | AAA_awright | I mean, which ones would you need available to GNU? |
| 16:12.31 | blast007 | hmm |
| 16:12.44 | blast007 | probably just pdcurses and GLEW for a release build |
| 16:12.48 | AAA_awright | BZFlag client .....: no bzflag client binary! (need OpenGL) |
| 16:12.56 | blast007 | think it's called release distribution on the VC8 stuff |
| 16:13.07 | blast007 | and you need a full copy of Visual C++/Studio |
| 16:13.16 | blast007 | you can't distribute with VC++ Express |
| 16:13.31 | blast007 | and then you need NSIS to make the installer package |
| 16:14.14 | AAA_awright | I am building with GCC, doesn't matter :) |
| 16:14.38 | blast007 | you said a "proper" build |
| 16:14.45 | blast007 | not a half-assed one |
| 16:14.57 | blast007 | so that would be using VC :) |
| 16:15.14 | AAA_awright | It has to be possible to work though |
| 16:15.18 | AAA_awright | er, yeah. |
| 16:15.28 | AAA_awright | How do you enable OpenGL GNU? |
| 16:15.34 | AAA_awright | On GNU? |
| 16:16.21 | blast007 | for building? |
| 16:16.26 | AAA_awright | blast007: Yes |
| 16:16.27 | blast007 | you need the right headers |
| 16:16.40 | AAA_awright | I can't find any package that provides those |
| 16:16.51 | blast007 | mesa doesn't have a dev package on your distro? |
| 16:17.15 | AAA_awright | It's called mesa? |
| 16:17.29 | blast007 | go look at what mesa is :P |
| 16:17.51 | blast007 | I don't think you'd want to tie it to nVidia opengl headers |
| 16:17.54 | blast007 | but I'm not sure |
| 16:19.05 | AAA_awright | Wow, the install took only 20 seconds! Amazing! |
| 16:19.33 | AAA_awright | Meanwhile, the laptop next to me (Gentoo) has been installing gcc for 9 hours now |
| 16:19.49 | blast007 | heh |
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| 16:22.41 | AAA_awright | Still no OpenGL |
| 16:23.04 | AAA_awright | I don't think --target registered either |
| 16:23.19 | JeffM | the gcc build on windows won't ever be the same as our release builds |
| 16:23.28 | JeffM | no force feedback |
| 16:23.33 | AAA_awright | No, this is gcc on Linux building for Windoes |
| 16:23.41 | JeffM | same thing |
| 16:23.56 | AAA_awright | It should be possible in theory... |
| 16:23.57 | JeffM | doing that is the same as building with minGW on windows |
| 16:24.00 | JeffM | sure |
| 16:24.01 | JeffM | it's been done |
| 16:24.09 | JeffM | makes a crapy build |
| 16:24.11 | JeffM | but it works |
| 16:24.28 | JeffM | it dosn't use the VC runtimes tho |
| 16:24.33 | JeffM | it uses the GCC runtimes |
| 16:24.43 | AAA_awright | Are they any worse? |
| 16:24.58 | JeffM | hard to say |
| 16:25.14 | JeffM | they get linked in staticly IIRC so bzflag is a lot bigger |
| 16:25.24 | JeffM | and it won't use directX, it'll use SDL |
| 16:25.33 | JeffM | so you don't get the windows DX input stuff |
| 16:25.53 | JeffM | there also may be optimisation things |
| 16:25.58 | JeffM | tupone did it |
| 16:26.27 | JeffM | it was iffy and didn't offer any advantage over a VC build |
| 16:27.10 | JeffM | Flash: why is the implementation flawed |
| 16:27.22 | JeffM | and just so you know we do most discussion here for dev, not on the fourms. |
| 16:27.26 | AAA_awright | DirectX in theory should work with gcc... you may have to write your own header files... |
| 16:27.40 | JeffM | AAA_awright: and get the offset tables for libs |
| 16:28.03 | JeffM | dynamic linking on windows does not work the same as linux |
| 16:28.34 | AAA_awright | Hm |
| 16:28.43 | JeffM | why are you doing this? |
| 16:28.45 | JeffM | just for fun? |
| 16:29.12 | AAA_awright | Learning, fun, because I can, it may be useful |
| 16:29.18 | JeffM | it isn't |
| 16:29.21 | JeffM | usefull that is |
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| 16:43.10 | AAA_awright | NSIS can generate installers on Linux, hm... |
| 16:43.33 | Ride- | how do i put a logger on a server |
| 16:43.34 | JeffM | yesi |
| 16:43.37 | JeffM | nsis rocks! |
| 16:43.49 | JeffM | Ride-: depends what you mean by a loger |
| 16:44.03 | Ride- | like a chat logger i think |
| 16:44.05 | JeffM | if you want to just save the command line output? or run a loging plugin |
| 16:44.07 | Ride- | not a bzadmin |
| 16:44.24 | JeffM | so you want to save the command line output |
| 16:44.29 | Ride- | ..... |
| 16:44.33 | Ride- | wait |
| 16:44.39 | Ride- | who has a logger.... |
| 16:44.40 | Ride- | NN |
| 16:44.41 | JeffM | bzflag itself does not have "log" abilities |
| 16:44.46 | Ride- | like nn's logger |
| 16:44.51 | JeffM | yes there are third party logers |
| 16:44.52 | JeffM | get his then |
| 16:44.57 | Ride- | no wait |
| 16:45.02 | Ride- | how do i make my own |
| 16:45.20 | Ride- | w/ a loging plugin |
| 16:52.45 | AAA_awright | Which package has sys/socket.h? >_< |
| 16:53.05 | JeffM | that's standard bsd networking |
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| 17:19.28 | whodaman | ~svn |
| 17:19.29 | ibot | Subversion (aka SVN) is version control software that aims to be a better CVS than CVS. See http://subversion.tigris.org/. |
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| 17:55.26 | TylerM | ping think_tank |
| 17:55.58 | TylerM | or any admin for fairserve.bzflag.org that wants to help :) |
| 17:57.40 | TylerM | got this recurring tk cheater thing killing us off on urban jungle :) |
| 17:57.42 | *** part/#bzflag TylerM (n=TylerM@osgeo/member/TylerM) |
| 18:02.52 | AHA | ~blast007++ |
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| 18:05.50 | think_tank | ah, it was my tk cheating buddy from last night. he's making the rounds now |
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| 18:09.33 | JeffM | so where are our students and the busting out of codes? |
| 18:10.57 | Lukstr | waves |
| 18:11.30 | Thumper_ | looks around but doesn't see any bugs... er bugQ's |
| 18:14.53 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r17287 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/bzfsAPI.h src/bzfs/bzfsAPI.cxx): add fast method for getting player callsigns |
| 18:19.25 | spldart | Was thinking some slapping the thing down needs to get happening for GSoC... But not me today.. I are teh sick ;-) |
| 18:19.44 | Lukstr | my boxen is arguing with me atm |
| 18:19.48 | Lukstr | should be up and running shortly |
| 18:20.24 | spldart | Can't believe a nat holiday was picked for the first day of work... Or are my facts amiss |
| 18:20.33 | Lukstr | maybe a holiday where you are |
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| 18:21.42 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v L4m3r_] by ChanServ |
| 18:22.09 | Thumper_ | It's not a holiday here...but since all my clients are in the US it's nice and quiet at work and I might actually accomplish something today |
| 18:22.15 | JeffM | spldart, remember that there is the rest of the world is out there |
| 18:22.31 | JeffM | and also that we are a week behind the planed schedule |
| 18:22.33 | spldart | I guess I assumed that google was based outta us |
| 18:22.39 | JeffM | spldart, they are |
| 18:22.43 | JeffM | but the students arn't ;) |
| 18:22.56 | spldart | students are EVERYWHERE right? |
| 18:23.00 | JeffM | yes |
| 18:23.01 | Lukstr | everywhere. |
| 18:23.02 | Lukstr | like spiders. |
| 18:23.07 | JeffM | well almost |
| 18:23.07 | spldart | yay spiders |
| 18:23.14 | JeffM | there are a few places they arn't |
| 18:23.15 | JeffM | cuba |
| 18:23.21 | *** join/#bzflag Esahp (i=phase@unaffiliated/esahp) |
| 18:23.22 | JeffM | etc.. |
| 18:23.27 | Lukstr | silly americans |
| 18:23.33 | spldart | Thjat's us |
| 18:23.41 | spldart | get it... US |
| 18:23.42 | Lukstr | Please excuse me while I go buy some cuban cigars at the corner store :P |
| 18:23.47 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r17288 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/ (3 files in 2 dirs): add utility to convert a team to a text name |
| 18:24.00 | spldart | a curse on you!!! I love cuban cigars :(* |
| 18:24.02 | JeffM | Lukstr, have fun with that cancer ;) |
| 18:24.07 | Lukstr | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:24.12 | Lukstr | nah, I'm no smoker |
| 18:24.23 | Lukstr | uhh |
| 18:24.32 | Lukstr | goes to the corner store to buy some cuban rum |
| 18:24.39 | spldart | I smoke 2 to 4 times a month... the other 27 someodd days I don't |
| 18:25.34 | Lukstr | I've had two cubans |
| 18:25.40 | Lukstr | ever |
| 18:26.03 | Lukstr | mostly for celebratory purposes |
| 18:26.07 | Lukstr | but smoking es la bad |
| 18:26.09 | spldart | ah |
| 18:26.10 | Lukstr | coffee ftw |
| 18:26.45 | AAA_awright | ~md5 bzflag |
| 18:26.54 | spldart | Well... I have a personal philosophy on the whole good bad thing. But that's to OT for here ;) |
| 18:28.31 | Lukstr | :P |
| 18:28.54 | Lukstr | back to work |
| 18:31.54 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r17289 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/SAMPLE_PLUGIN/SAMPLE_PLUGIN.vcproj: the lib moved to the root so use that instead of the old debug and release locations. |
| 18:38.11 | blast007 | JeffM: does anyone (that we care about) use VC7.1 besides me? |
| 18:38.38 | JeffM | blast007, I don't think so |
| 18:38.42 | JeffM | you have 8 right? |
| 18:38.52 | blast007 | yeah, I can throw 8 on |
| 18:39.04 | blast007 | the VC7.1 stuff is broken right now anyway |
| 18:39.14 | JeffM | it is better then 7.1 in many many ways :) |
| 18:39.24 | blast007 | from both FTGL stuff and the new unicode workaround |
| 18:39.45 | blast007 | and if nobody else is using it, we could probably just ditch it |
| 18:39.49 | JeffM | all the plugins got upgraded to 8 too |
| 18:39.56 | blast007 | yeah, was just gonna say |
| 18:39.59 | JeffM | so 7.1 is at a disadvantage |
| 18:40.10 | JeffM | and since 8 is free..... |
| 18:40.22 | JeffM | that makes it hard to justify keeping 7 around |
| 18:40.35 | blast007 | yup |
| 18:41.05 | blast007 | I'm not able to fix the issues currently in there for 7.1, so there's not really a point to keeping it I guess :) |
| 18:41.13 | L4m3r_ | "Lazy cheater, just go get VC8" |
| 18:41.32 | blast007 | the FTGL stuff barely supports VC7.1 |
| 18:41.40 | blast007 | only has the ftgl_dll.sln for 7.1 |
| 18:41.51 | blast007 | we use ftgl_static for VC8 |
| 18:42.22 | JeffM | ahh |
| 18:42.31 | JeffM | yeah I didn't do statics for 7.1 |
| 18:42.55 | JeffM | blast007, well I HAVE 7.1 I just choose not to fix the stuff |
| 18:42.58 | blast007 | in 7.1, we just have the files for FTGL in the 3D project |
| 18:43.02 | blast007 | right |
| 18:43.16 | blast007 | and I can't, so no real use for it anymore :) |
| 18:43.19 | blast007 | I can upgrade |
| 18:44.17 | blast007 | should I delete the VC71 directory? |
| 18:45.16 | JeffM | go for it :) |
| 18:45.23 | JeffM | just don't forget to update the makes |
| 18:45.32 | JeffM | and the docs if they still mention it |
| 18:46.24 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r17290 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/ (9 files in 2 dirs): |
| 18:46.24 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: basic plug-in to log out chat with timestamps |
| 18:46.24 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: TODO: track IPs and hosts of joins and mark filtered text. |
| 18:46.34 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r17291 10/trunk/bzflag/MSVC/VC71/: Visual C++ 2005 (VC8) is the preferred build environment for Windows. Remove support for Visual C++ 2003 (VC7.1). |
| 18:46.56 | blast007 | ok yeah, makefiles |
| 18:46.59 | blast007 | those silly things |
| 18:47.14 | JeffM | should be simple to search for 7.1 and see what you get in all files |
| 18:47.34 | spldart | Check it.. uber trippy http://70.240.248.13:8080/bzadmincpuusage.jpg sry bout the low bandwidth. That machine is got a load on it. the left task manager shows bzadmin running over 30% cpu continous and crss sucking quite a bit too... killed bzadmin and crss returns to normal as well. Keep in mind this is a dual MP3200+ rig. |
| 18:50.11 | L4m3r_ | bzadmin is kind of crappy like that... I do not recommend running it for any length of time on a system where you don't want to hog CPU |
| 18:50.27 | spldart | This was it's 4 day :-\ |
| 18:50.43 | blast007 | JeffM: yup, grep ftw |
| 18:51.09 | Flash | JeffM: I figured it would easier to have a low frequency discussion via the forums, since one never knows when someone is about |
| 18:51.33 | JeffM | Flash, I know but not many here read there |
| 18:51.33 | Flash | there's a couple of things that I think are serious issues |
| 18:51.38 | JeffM | such as? |
| 18:51.46 | blast007 | heh, plugins still include ../../win32/vc71/ for an include directory |
| 18:51.53 | blast007 | at least some of them do |
| 18:52.03 | Flash | one is that the list of players in World is of type RemotePlayer* |
| 18:52.13 | Flash | that list is iterated over for a number of things |
| 18:52.26 | JeffM | remote players are derived from the regular Player |
| 18:52.39 | Flash | but the code in Roster substitutes a RobotPlayer when it looks up a player |
| 18:52.49 | Flash | RobotPlayer derives from LocalPlayer |
| 18:52.57 | JeffM | what do we call to look up the player? |
| 18:53.08 | JeffM | GetLocalPlayer? or GetPlayerByIndex? |
| 18:53.14 | Flash | in playing, mostly it's Roster.cxx: getPlayerByIndex |
| 18:53.27 | JeffM | yeah you want to call GetLocalPlayer when dealing with bots |
| 18:53.28 | Flash | but sometimes it's getPlayerById |
| 18:53.58 | JeffM | ok so that should be fixable |
| 18:53.59 | Flash | the change to Roster was to return the RobotPlayer whenever it was requested |
| 18:54.00 | JeffM | call GetLocalPlayer if that fails, it's a remote and call GetPlayerByIndex |
| 18:54.17 | JeffM | well robot player is also a derived class |
| 18:54.32 | JeffM | so it should be able to be used in most cases that a remote is |
| 18:54.40 | Flash | some of the rendering stuff just iterates over all the players (basically just updating the array index) |
| 18:54.46 | JeffM | ok |
| 18:54.48 | JeffM | that should be fine |
| 18:54.53 | JeffM | it uses the base player interface |
| 18:54.57 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r17292 10/trunk/bzflag/ (MSVC/Makefile.am README.WINDOWS): |
| 18:54.57 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: Update the MSVC/Makefile.am since a directory was removed. |
| 18:54.57 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: Update the README.WINDOWS to reflect the discontinuation of VC7.1 support. |
| 18:55.26 | Flash | Well, if World was changed to have a Player* instead of a RemotePlayer*, it would be easier to synchronize the interfaces |
| 18:55.48 | JeffM | so far you have just told me how we do things, not what the problem is. I don't see how anything you've said so far is changed by the player ID coming from a seperate net connection. |
| 18:56.13 | JeffM | how did we get the players for bots before? |
| 18:57.12 | Flash | before, the getPlayerByIndex logic just picked up the RemotePlayer object that is created when the server sends the new player message |
| 18:57.16 | JeffM | have you identified what the problem is? is it that we are casting the player class as the wrong thign? |
| 18:57.40 | JeffM | if we used remote players before, and we use remote players now.. what is the problem? |
| 18:57.45 | Flash | no, it's that we are inconsistent in which object we use |
| 18:58.01 | Flash | sometimes we use local players and sometimes remote ones |
| 18:58.04 | JeffM | ok |
| 18:58.09 | JeffM | and what problem does that cause? |
| 18:58.27 | Flash | I think it's at the root of not getting the alive message properly set up |
| 18:58.36 | JeffM | you think? |
| 18:58.41 | Flash | I think |
| 18:58.46 | Flash | I don't know |
| 18:58.58 | JeffM | then still, enough hasn't been done |
| 18:59.10 | JeffM | you know you don't have to work on t his bug |
| 18:59.12 | JeffM | you can work on others |
| 18:59.30 | Flash | I can reproduce this one, so it's "easier" to work on |
| 18:59.33 | JeffM | you've given us a fallback patch,and that's good |
| 18:59.57 | JeffM | but we realy need to understand why it isn't working insted of just blowing it back to how it used to be |
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| 19:00.07 | JeffM | you should go over the change with tupone |
| 19:00.12 | JeffM | and see what his goals for it were |
| 19:00.15 | Flash | also, if you DO share a single connection, the server will definitely crash when the client quits |
| 19:00.26 | JeffM | Flash, so we fix that |
| 19:00.46 | Flash | that's why I started down the refactoring path |
| 19:00.52 | JeffM | I know |
| 19:00.54 | Flash | remember when you asked me if it fixed a bug? |
| 19:01.01 | JeffM | so maybe we'll get some of that in this fix |
| 19:01.07 | Flash | I just forgot why I was draining the swamp ;-) |
| 19:01.23 | JeffM | and that is the core problem I have |
| 19:01.26 | JeffM | you went too far |
| 19:01.36 | JeffM | you got in so deep you forgot your goal |
| 19:01.55 | AAA_awright | JeffM: bzfs trunk is autoloading any .dll in plugins/, Do you know why? |
| 19:01.59 | Flash | hmmm. I think that's an overstatement |
| 19:02.07 | JeffM | AAA_awright, because that's what it does |
| 19:02.12 | JeffM | Flash, perahps |
| 19:02.21 | AAA_awright | It has always done that? |
| 19:02.32 | JeffM | AAA_awright, since I wrote the code to do that |
| 19:02.50 | AAA_awright | Wasn't there some constant you had to set though? |
| 19:02.59 | JeffM | Flash, I still think there is a fix that dosn't involve redoing it all |
| 19:03.05 | AAA_awright | hm. |
| 19:03.13 | blast007 | JeffM: does it always do that for debug builds? |
| 19:03.14 | JeffM | AAA_awright, only for linux it's on by default for windows debug builds |
| 19:03.20 | JeffM | blast007, yep |
| 19:03.24 | blast007 | k |
| 19:03.53 | JeffM | Flash, if there isn't then I agree we should go and put it back the old way. |
| 19:04.14 | JeffM | but I'm not convinced there isn't a solution yet |
| 19:04.27 | Flash | for which? There are two interrelated problems |
| 19:04.46 | Flash | For the robots thing, I think there was a step in a direction that didn't work as hoped |
| 19:05.04 | JeffM | Flash, it's all one thing |
| 19:05.40 | JeffM | is there a way to prevent the server crash ( like simple ref counting of net handlers) with out redoing the entire thing? |
| 19:06.11 | Flash | not sure; pointers are held by lots of different classes |
| 19:06.30 | JeffM | Flash, but it should not be to hard to find out where they are allocated and freed |
| 19:06.31 | Flash | that's a major part of the issue |
| 19:06.42 | JeffM | then just have those call new and delete wraper functions |
| 19:06.44 | AAA_awright | wants to integrate crash reporting into MasterBot |
| 19:07.28 | Flash | yes, but is it worth investing in adding reference counting to the existing code when there was already the start of a nice framework that obviates the need for it? |
| 19:07.30 | AAA_awright | JeffM: Is it possible to set it to autoload after the parsing of -loadplugins is done? It won't load the parameters I am passing to it until I delete the .dll from plugins/ |
| 19:08.14 | blast007 | AAA_awright: or better yet, make it not load them all if you specifically load a plugin |
| 19:08.28 | ts | global seems to be down |
| 19:08.32 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r17293 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfsPlugins.cxx: remove the autoload dir, it was a stupid idea. do it as a plugin if anyone needs it. |
| 19:08.33 | blast007 | ~bzflist |
| 19:08.44 | blast007 | seems so |
| 19:09.10 | AAA_awright | I couldn't find it anywhere in bzfsPlugins or bzfs.cxx, anyways, Thanks JeffM |
| 19:09.17 | blast007 | ts: guess it's back now |
| 19:09.20 | JeffM | Flash, yes there is, because that is a smaller change. |
| 19:09.27 | ts | tnx |
| 19:09.44 | JeffM | AAA_awright, huh? |
| 19:09.52 | blast007 | ts: I didn't do anything actually, it came back by itself ;) |
| 19:10.22 | AAA_awright | The auto loading stuff, I found the commit you added it, but I couldn't locate the code in the trunk, as if it was taken out... |
| 19:10.40 | JeffM | AAA_awright, you didn't search for "autoload"? |
| 19:10.46 | AAA_awright | Yes, I did |
| 19:10.57 | JeffM | before I made that commit? |
| 19:11.10 | AAA_awright | Maybe I was searching the wrong branch, idk |
| 19:11.39 | blast007 | blames git |
| 19:11.42 | blast007 | ;) |
| 19:11.44 | JeffM | yep |
| 19:11.46 | spldart | heh |
| 19:11.56 | AAA_awright | I was searching the files with MSVC |
| 19:11.58 | JeffM | ctrl + shift + F found it just fine |
| 19:12.02 | AAA_awright | Wierd |
| 19:12.07 | JeffM | did you have it set to case sensitive? |
| 19:12.16 | JeffM | and were you searhing the solution? or the project? |
| 19:12.30 | AAA_awright | no. I just wasn't searching very hard, it wasn't critical |
| 19:12.38 | JeffM | hard? |
| 19:12.48 | JeffM | so then you didn't search for "autoload" |
| 19:12.57 | AAA_awright | signs |
| 19:13.00 | JeffM | since the computer can't search any harder or weaker for you ;) |
| 19:13.08 | AAA_awright | sighs... er |
| 19:13.12 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (n=KTL@213.219.141.90.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
| 19:13.19 | JeffM | maybe if you slam down on F3 "Find again HARDER" |
| 19:13.20 | JeffM | ;) |
| 19:13.47 | JeffM | Flash, it all depends on how much work you want to put into it |
| 19:14.03 | TD-Linux | sudo F3 |
| 19:14.06 | JeffM | if the only server issue is the new and delete of netHandlers that's easy to find |
| 19:14.20 | JeffM | just make the constructor and desctructor private and compile :) |
| 19:14.24 | JeffM | then we wrap those |
| 19:14.26 | Flash | I already provided a patch to keep it from crashing, but it was a bit of a hack |
| 19:14.42 | Flash | not something I'd be in a hurry to commit |
| 19:14.55 | JeffM | if it works and is stable then it's fine |
| 19:15.06 | JeffM | not all commits before a release have to stream beauty |
| 19:15.17 | JeffM | we are in production code, not theory |
| 19:15.18 | JeffM | ;) |
| 19:15.29 | Flash | well, I think my branch is stable too |
| 19:15.59 | Flash | but that's back to risk management |
| 19:16.52 | JeffM | it's more invasive |
| 19:16.58 | JeffM | smaller changes are easier to verify |
| 19:16.59 | Flash | I fully understand |
| 19:18.43 | Winny | JeffM: have you seen Const lately? |
| 19:18.54 | Winny | Figure he'd be around on GSoC day |
| 19:19.09 | Lukstr | ask the bot |
| 19:19.28 | JeffM | I saw him a couple days ago |
| 19:19.35 | JeffM | probably at a bbq |
| 19:19.42 | spldart | mmmMMMmmm |
| 19:19.51 | Winny | hmm, ok |
| 19:20.02 | JeffM | Flash, I'd concentrate on the client issues. It sounds like you have a handler on the server side issue ( that you know of ). and those are manageable |
| 19:20.08 | JeffM | heck I can do the ref coutning of them |
| 19:20.17 | JeffM | keep looking at the client |
| 19:20.24 | JeffM | and see how nasty that part is. |
| 19:20.37 | JeffM | gets clean |
| 19:21.18 | Lukstr | sounds like a plan |
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| 19:46.43 | bz24 | hi all |
| 19:46.52 | Winny | hi |
| 19:46.59 | blast007 | hello |
| 19:47.05 | bz24 | I would like to compute the total horizontal and vertical distances by all the players |
| 19:47.11 | bz24 | where can I do this in bzfs.cxx ? |
| 19:47.14 | DTRemenak | AAA_awright: if you're crosscompiling for windows, use the mingw targets, not the cygwin ones. |
| 19:47.27 | JeffM | bzfs dosn't know the exact postion of allthe players bz24 |
| 19:47.29 | AAA_awright | I am... if I can get them to work |
| 19:47.35 | bz24 | I just need the previous x,y,z and the current x,y,z with some frequent update |
| 19:47.37 | JeffM | you can get the last update postion form the API |
| 19:47.46 | JeffM | bz24, in 2.0.x we don't keep an update |
| 19:47.55 | JeffM | just the last reported postion |
| 19:48.03 | JeffM | 3.0 does some level of interpolation |
| 19:48.09 | bz24 | ok... no way to compute these quantities ? |
| 19:48.10 | JeffM | check the bz_PlayerRecord |
| 19:48.23 | DTRemenak | AAA_awright: and you can build native just fine, specify --without-sdl and make sure your directx libs are in order. the dinput lib probably won't link right; configure should set BROKEN_DINPUT and fall back to MMSystem joystick support. |
| 19:48.25 | JeffM | sure there is a way, we just don't do it in 2.0.x :) |
| 19:48.33 | JeffM | mostly because we don't have accurate timestamps |
| 19:48.41 | blast007 | a plugin could track it |
| 19:48.52 | blast007 | and get a good idea of distances |
| 19:49.10 | AAA_awright | DTRemenak: hmm. |
| 19:49.10 | JeffM | blast007, in branch it'd be lag senstive |
| 19:49.14 | JeffM | but it'd be something |
| 19:49.18 | DTRemenak | so other than force feedback it should be exactly like a VC build |
| 19:49.23 | bz24 | only individual clients know exactly the positions ? |
| 19:49.24 | blast007 | depends what kind of detail he's needing |
| 19:49.35 | blast007 | bz24: pretty much |
| 19:49.51 | DTRemenak | speed is almost identical too. it's SDL that kills it (or did when I tested it) |
| 19:49.54 | blast007 | what are you trying to accomplish? |
| 19:49.56 | AAA_awright | An off the shelf ./configure doesn't work, I get warnings about "_MSC_VER" and an error, no sys/socket.h |
| 19:50.10 | DTRemenak | it's quite possible that it's broken at the moment ;) |
| 19:50.12 | AAA_awright | that is, --target=mingw-someting |
| 19:50.21 | JeffM | bz24, yes in 2.0.x |
| 19:50.33 | bz24 | I am the guy who wanted to compute the altitude of the tanks last week, remember ? |
| 19:50.35 | JeffM | bz24, it's one of the things we are changing for the next version |
| 19:50.46 | JeffM | ahh |
| 19:50.49 | bz24 | :) |
| 19:50.50 | JeffM | yeah in 2.0.0, good luch |
| 19:50.52 | JeffM | luck |
| 19:50.56 | bz24 | yeah lol |
| 19:50.56 | L4m3r_ | JeffM: you say that like it's so easy :P |
| 19:51.00 | JeffM | perhaps if you picked a real name |
| 19:51.00 | blast007 | oh, heh... |
| 19:51.05 | DTRemenak | sys/socket.h should not be required |
| 19:51.12 | DTRemenak | where are you getting errors? |
| 19:51.17 | AAA_awright | Oh, that is for bzfs |
| 19:51.29 | DTRemenak | with WIN32 defined it should be using winsock2.h |
| 19:51.30 | AAA_awright | I can't compile bzflag, no OpenGL configure says |
| 19:51.42 | DTRemenak | you have the mingw headers installed? |
| 19:51.48 | JeffM | bz24, the best you can do is use the time of the last update and inerpolate |
| 19:51.55 | JeffM | but that won't take lag into account |
| 19:51.58 | AAA_awright | DTRemenak: I think so? |
| 19:51.58 | DTRemenak | mingw has its own GL/gl.h |
| 19:51.59 | bz24 | so I did the job for the altitude everything works well but I think a better indicator of lazy tanks waiting on buildings is to compute the total horizontal distance |
| 19:52.01 | JeffM | we didn't have timestamps untill 3.0 |
| 19:52.17 | bz24 | ok JeffM but what is the delay between updates ? |
| 19:52.28 | JeffM | bz24, variable |
| 19:52.40 | AAA_awright | Is that a special package? |
| 19:53.07 | AAA_awright | I am doing this on Debian, I have mingw32 mingw32-binutils and mingw32-runtime |
| 19:53.15 | bz24 | ok JeffM but given the rapid speed variations maybe it's not a good estimator of the distance... |
| 19:53.27 | JeffM | bz24, like I said, it won't take lag into account ;) |
| 19:53.37 | JeffM | bz24, the 2.0.x server is NOT setup to do what you want |
| 19:53.44 | JeffM | and nor is the network protcoll |
| 19:53.49 | bz24 | ok I give up :) |
| 19:53.56 | JeffM | 3.0 has more of what you need |
| 19:54.05 | JeffM | since we are working on making the server track players |
| 19:54.37 | bz24 | ok good |
| 19:55.48 | DTRemenak | AAA_awright: do they have a mingw32-w32api or similar package? |
| 19:56.10 | AAA_awright | I can't find any other mingw32- package |
| 19:56.30 | bz24 | no game in few minutes ? |
| 19:57.17 | AAA_awright | DTRemenak: Wine is the closest thing I can find to that :/ |
| 19:57.30 | blast007 | AAA_awright: run Visual C++ in Wine |
| 19:57.32 | blast007 | ducks |
| 19:57.38 | AAA_awright | Hah |
| 19:57.50 | AAA_awright | That... might work? |
| 19:57.56 | blast007 | probably not |
| 19:58.11 | bz24 | thanks blast007 and JeffM byebye |
| 19:58.20 | JeffM | have fun |
| 19:58.26 | DTRemenak | 6 does, .NET does not yet IIRC |
| 19:59.06 | DTRemenak | and even once it does, wine+mono is an interesting trick to set up to run .NET apps (like VS.NET) |
| 20:01.21 | DTRemenak | AAA_awright: you are using the correct prefix for mingw, right? |
| 20:01.31 | AAA_awright | I am not sure |
| 20:01.42 | DTRemenak | where did it install the headers/libs/etc? |
| 20:02.03 | AAA_awright | Hm, That last one with the errors I was cheating by setting CXX |
| 20:02.08 | DTRemenak | search for winsock2.h if you're too lazy to read the docs |
| 20:02.29 | DTRemenak | then you'll need to pass --prefix=/my/mingw/location to configure |
| 20:02.36 | AAA_awright | i586-mingw32msvc |
| 20:02.44 | SpazzyMcGee | 3.0 are great so far. I like seeing tank labels in play. |
| 20:02.45 | AAA_awright | Alright |
| 20:02.49 | DTRemenak | on some systems it's /opt/mingw, for instance |
| 20:03.00 | DTRemenak | so winsock2.h would be in /opt/mingw/include/winsock2.h |
| 20:03.13 | SpazzyMcGee | But I get a crash when I exit. |
| 20:03.21 | AAA_awright | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:03.47 | SpazzyMcGee | Unexpectedly quit message |
| 20:04.21 | DTRemenak | yeah, so pass --prefix=/usr/i586-mingw32msvc/ to configure |
| 20:04.34 | AAA_awright | configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables |
| 20:05.07 | AAA_awright | (What sort of compiler can not create executables?!?) |
| 20:05.41 | blast007 | AAA_awright: have you built a regular 2.99.x client on that system before? |
| 20:05.52 | AAA_awright | Yes |
| 20:06.03 | blast007 | hmm, k |
| 20:06.46 | DTRemenak | you are overriding CXX, right? override CC too. |
| 20:07.04 | AAA_awright | So I do have to do that, k |
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| 20:08.11 | DTRemenak | you either need to override all of your compile tools, or set your PATH appropriately so it finds them before your native versions |
| 20:08.47 | AAA_awright | The compiler is i586-mingw32msvc-gcc and -g++ |
| 20:09.14 | DTRemenak | there's not a normally-named symlink in /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/bin/ ? |
| 20:09.30 | DTRemenak | i.e. /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/bin/gcc ? |
| 20:10.05 | AAA_awright | It's in /usr/bin/i586-mingw32msvc-gcc |
| 20:10.27 | AAA_awright | There is no symlinks in /usr/i586-mingw32msvc/bin/, there are other binaries though |
| 20:10.35 | AAA_awright | non-compilers it appears |
| 20:10.47 | AAA_awright | dlltool, ld |
| 20:11.12 | DTRemenak | k. your setup is a bit strange, you'll have to figure out how to get configure to find everything correctly. |
| 20:12.02 | AAA_awright | tries running that command now |
| 20:12.53 | AAA_awright | It breaks even earlier now, "checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs." |
| 20:13.35 | DTRemenak | another note about building on mingw is that you may have to build some dependencies separately rather than through the sub-configures. zlib for instance, you will need to build separately and install into your mingw prefix. |
| 20:14.12 | blast007 | so in other words, it's faster to go buy a copy of XP and install it? ;) |
| 20:14.21 | DTRemenak | faster, sure |
| 20:14.33 | DTRemenak | it's not always about faster though ;) |
| 20:14.42 | AAA_awright | That defeats the purpose of "I didn't pay for anything" bragging rights |
| 20:14.56 | JeffM | except the computer |
| 20:14.59 | AAA_awright | I am not sure how free as in freedom using the DirectX lib is |
| 20:15.14 | AAA_awright | JeffM: Technicality ;) |
| 20:15.16 | DTRemenak | you do have --host, right? |
| 20:15.38 | AAA_awright | --host is set to... the target too? My local system I thought. |
| 20:15.38 | DTRemenak | 'cause it should totally skip that check if you're crosscompiling |
| 20:16.41 | DTRemenak | should be something like --host=i386-mingw32msvc --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu |
| 20:16.53 | DTRemenak | but with appropriate values for whatever you're actually doing |
| 20:17.36 | DTRemenak | I've never used --target and the crosscompile docs for other packages don't say anything about it |
| 20:17.47 | AAA_awright | That seems to work |
| 20:18.11 | AAA_awright | brb |
| 20:25.57 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17294 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/Makefile.am: chatlog not cjatlog |
| 20:26.39 | JeffM | it's RIGHT next to the H! |
| 20:26.41 | JeffM | ;) |
| 20:27.05 | DTRemenak | I do love the way automake doesn't say what file it failed in too |
| 20:27.12 | Flash | DTRemenak: beat me to it, but it still isn't compiling for me |
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| 20:28.55 | Flash | must be the configure thing |
| 20:28.58 | JeffM | Flash, I'll commit a change for ref counting the net handlers probalby today |
| 20:29.08 | JeffM | I've got the big part done |
| 20:29.55 | JeffM | now I just need to do the pointers |
| 20:30.57 | AAA_awright | DTRemenak: checking for regular expression functionality... configure: error: cannot run test program while cross compiling |
| 20:31.32 | DTRemenak | AAA_awright: build --with-regex |
| 20:32.10 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17295 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/configure.ac: add chatlog |
| 20:32.43 | *** join/#bzflag Qew (n=qew@82-69-126-225.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 20:32.57 | Flash | ah. THAT's what was missing |
| 20:33.15 | AAA_awright | Makes sense |
| 20:33.57 | AAA_awright | DTRemenak: Still happens |
| 20:34.25 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17296 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/chatlog/Makefile.am: correct target file |
| 20:35.24 | DTRemenak | AAA_awright: sorry, --enable-regex-build |
| 20:35.34 | DTRemenak | right idea, wrong flag :) |
| 20:38.14 | Flash | should there be (or is there, in practice) a difference between PlayerId and index into the Player array? |
| 20:39.59 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17297 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/chatlog/chatlog.ncb: ncb file begone. please don't commit 4mb automatically regenerated binary files ;) |
| 20:41.16 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17298 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/chatlog/Makefile.am: lowercase is good too |
| 20:41.37 | Flash | sheesh. I'll stop compiling until you get it right |
| 20:41.44 | DTRemenak | heh :) |
| 20:41.46 | DTRemenak | might be a while |
| 20:44.49 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17299 10/trunk/bzflag/configure.ac: no more vc71 |
| 20:46.57 | L4m3r_ | Die! |
| 20:47.22 | blast007 | ah, missed that I guess |
| 20:48.34 | DTRemenak | hm, something else is still broken |
| 20:48.42 | DTRemenak | wishes the error messages were actually useful |
| 20:57.33 | *** join/#bzflag Ride- (n=Ride-@97-86-255-229.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com) |
| 21:00.30 | *** part/#bzflag LongDon (n=LongDon@dyndsl-091-096-005-215.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 21:03.05 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (n=const@unaffiliated/macsforme) |
| 21:05.23 | DTRemenak | gives up |
| 21:09.23 | Winny | hehe |
| 21:09.42 | Winny | You'd like turing, it doesn't tell you what or where the error was |
| 21:09.53 | Winny | it just says "there's a syntax error in your program" |
| 21:10.53 | Flash | I don't see an error. What are you fighting? |
| 21:11.17 | DTRemenak | libtoolize fails here |
| 21:13.42 | Winny | Oh, it appears gmail is now marking bzbb forum email as spam |
| 21:13.43 | Winny | great |
| 21:14.03 | DTRemenak | top-level source of the problem is "' is already registered with AC_CONFIG_FILES" |
| 21:15.22 | *** join/#bzflag Phase (i=phase@unaffiliated/phase) |
| 21:19.34 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17300 10/trunk/bzflag/configure.ac: use AC_RUN_IFELSE instead of AC_TRY_RUN for detecting regex issues. build regex automatically when crosscompiling. |
| 21:26.23 | Flash | DTRemenak: I don't know if it matters, but svn status in chatlog shows "?" for generated files; in other plugins (for example webstats) they show "I" status |
| 21:27.50 | *** join/#bzflag Tupone (n=Tupone@pdpc/supporter/active/Tupone) |
| 21:27.50 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Tupone] by ChanServ |
| 21:28.27 | Flash | Tupone: jeff wants me to talk to you about what you had in mind for changing robots |
| 21:28.55 | Tupone | hmm, what do you mean by that? |
| 21:29.02 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r17301 10/trunk/bzflag/plugins/chatlog/: set svn:ignore property |
| 21:29.12 | BulletCatcher | The tools/modeltool/vc71 directory remains, as does its mention in in tools/modeltool/Makefile.am . Is it time for it to go, too? |
| 21:29.17 | *** join/#bzflag think_tank (n=think_ta@unaffiliated/thinktank/x-168245) |
| 21:29.32 | Flash | you made a change a while back that was aimed at using a single connection between the client and the server |
| 21:29.40 | Flash | robots have been broken since |
| 21:29.52 | Tupone | nope, robot as been broken after |
| 21:30.04 | Flash | huh? |
| 21:31.05 | Tupone | that is my opinion and my research. Maybe I did a bad research but my results are that |
| 21:33.57 | Flash | oh, it wasn't your change that broke it |
| 21:38.21 | Flash | here's what Jeff said: |
| 21:38.22 | Flash | 13:00 < JeffM> you should go over the change with tupone |
| 21:38.23 | Flash | 13:00 < JeffM> and see what his goals for it were |
| 21:40.24 | L4m3r | found a model M |
| 21:40.28 | L4m3r | this is weird. and loud. |
| 21:40.31 | Tupone | well, my overall goal is to include in the protocol the possibility to make a proxy |
| 21:42.16 | Flash | the change that broke it was r13436. I don't know exactly why it broke it (I have a theory), but I know that it does. |
| 21:43.11 | Flash | I don't know why it was wanted in the first place, so I don't know how to fix it while retaining the original goal |
| 21:43.19 | Flash | backing out the change makes robots work |
| 21:43.57 | Flash | part of what I think was wanted was to share a single ServerLink between the client and his robots |
| 21:45.10 | *** join/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=shedelj@unaffiliated/thinkdifferentl/x-838543) |
| 21:47.02 | Tupone | I worked alone on that. Any other commit is without any shared vision |
| 21:47.16 | Tupone | and that commit is not mine |
| 21:48.45 | Flash | I'm kind of stuck. The minimal change to make robots work is patch 1947580 (http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1947580&group_id=3248&atid=303248) |
| 21:49.03 | Flash | jeff doesn't want me to commit that because I don't know why it broke things |
| 21:49.51 | Flash | but if it isn't consistent with your vision, it may still be the right change |
| 21:50.33 | Flash | I suspect that making things work while retaining r13436 will be very intrusive for unknown value |
| 21:51.31 | Flash | watches a movie with his daughter |
| 21:51.57 | Tupone | I can explain how I wanted it to work. Just forget robots for now. robot was just an proof of concept. |
| 21:52.10 | Tupone | ok, movie is better |
| 22:00.00 | *** join/#bzflag KingofCamelot (i=KingofCa@SCT-52-221.resnet.ucsb.edu) |
| 22:01.17 | brlcad | Flash: sounds like the vision is mutual, sharing a single link for all bots |
| 22:02.09 | brlcad | if reverting andrew's commit works without breaking bzrobots, then I don't see any harm backing it out |
| 22:02.50 | brlcad | it would be nice to understand why that breaks it -- in isolation, it's not really a sensical change |
| 22:05.41 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03brlcad * r17302 10/trunk/bzflag/ (data/l10n/bzflag_ru.po src/bzflag/playing.cxx): |
| 22:05.41 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: accept Alexander Law's sf patch 1972610 (Improving internationalization) that |
| 22:05.41 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: adds localization messages for various pausing, self-destruction, and game join |
| 22:05.41 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: messages. someone will want to eventually add those new ones to the other |
| 22:05.42 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: localizations. |
| 22:06.00 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@CPE-76-177-176-191.natsoe.res.rr.com) |
| 22:06.00 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 22:07.17 | brlcad | ~seen alexanderlaw |
| 22:07.18 | ibot | alexanderlaw <n=Alexande@83.239.109.173> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 8d 12h 53m 19s ago, saying: 'yes, i'm sorry'. |
| 22:16.18 | *** join/#bzflag ViciousM (n=max@cpe-024-211-248-161.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:23.30 | DTRemenak | leaves a big note on that patch regarding the "right way" to fix it |
| 22:25.33 | Winny | are there any graphs showing how many SLOC are in BZFlag? |
| 22:25.38 | Winny | I recall seeing one ages ago |
| 22:33.43 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=Jeff@pool-71-109-223-10.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 22:37.31 | Tupone | Winny: http://www.ohloh.net/projects/bzflag |
| 22:37.42 | Tupone | is in the topic |
| 22:38.01 | Winny | doh |
| 22:39.48 | JeffM | wonders if 8 gigs of ram is worth it? |
| 22:40.18 | Winny | Would you ever even use that much unless you edited 5000x10000 images in photoshop? |
| 22:40.30 | JeffM | rendering |
| 22:40.46 | JeffM | but yes it is highly likely that I would not use that much |
| 22:40.54 | Winny | I'd imagine CPU would be more imporant there |
| 22:41.02 | JeffM | has to decide if XP is worth 40$ |
| 22:41.35 | L4m3r | that's what it's going for now? |
| 22:41.47 | JeffM | no |
| 22:41.52 | L4m3r | or is that an option on a new system? |
| 22:41.52 | JeffM | it's 40$ more then vista |
| 22:41.57 | L4m3r | heh |
| 22:42.03 | Winny | ehe |
| 22:42.11 | L4m3r | what're you going to use it for? |
| 22:42.17 | JeffM | 99$ for vista home 64, 139 for XP pro 64 |
| 22:42.28 | JeffM | new main machine |
| 22:42.33 | JeffM | quad core |
| 22:42.36 | Winny | I'd go with Vista |
| 22:42.53 | Winny | does better with >2 cores I thought |
| 22:43.10 | L4m3r | XP Pro 64? yeah, just get Vista |
| 22:43.15 | JeffM | hmmm.. no VC7 with vista |
| 22:43.28 | L4m3r | good thing we just dropped it, huh? |
| 22:43.33 | JeffM | heh |
| 22:43.44 | L4m3r | seriously, though, XP64 sucks :P |
| 22:43.46 | bryjen | does XP pro do more than 2 cores at all? workstation used to be 1-2 cpus only |
| 22:44.17 | JeffM | that is a good question |
| 22:44.52 | L4m3r | JeffM: are you building the box? |
| 22:44.55 | JeffM | yes |
| 22:44.59 | L4m3r | mmm :) |
| 22:45.18 | JeffM | bryjen: seems XP home supports N cores on one processor, pro supports N cores on 2 processors |
| 22:45.44 | L4m3r | so you can use XP home with a dual-core box? that doesn't seem right |
| 22:46.01 | bryjen | ah. i wasn't going to assume it made the cores/cpus distinction |
| 22:46.15 | JeffM | L4m3r: umm, sure it does, XP shiped on most dual core systems |
| 22:46.34 | JeffM | my core 2 duo laptop shiped with home |
| 22:46.37 | L4m3r | the home version? most new systems I've seen come with MCE, which is basically pro |
| 22:46.43 | JeffM | no it's not |
| 22:46.58 | JeffM | but yeah home shiped on many many systems |
| 22:47.11 | JeffM | bryjen: yeah it's nice that they did |
| 22:47.11 | L4m3r | MCE = pro - domains & groups + media center |
| 22:47.26 | JeffM | pro = home + domains and groups ;) |
| 22:47.26 | L4m3r | and some themes and stuff :P |
| 22:47.33 | JeffM | so MCE = home + media center ;) |
| 22:48.07 | blast007 | not exactly Jeff |
| 22:48.19 | blast007 | there's some other features with Pro |
| 22:48.26 | JeffM | the question would be is how many cpus does MCE support |
| 22:48.29 | JeffM | blast007: that mce has? |
| 22:48.41 | blast007 | afaik, MCE has Remote Desktop |
| 22:48.45 | JeffM | ahh |
| 22:48.48 | JeffM | yeah it'd need that |
| 22:49.26 | bryjen | doesn't pro? |
| 22:49.32 | JeffM | pro does |
| 22:49.35 | JeffM | home does not |
| 22:49.55 | bryjen | ah, just "Remote Assistance" then? |
| 22:50.00 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:50.22 | JeffM | with XP pro I'm at 618$ |
| 22:51.38 | bryjen | hugs linux, where features are available on demand, not by the whim of some marketing dept |
| 22:51.47 | JeffM | heh |
| 22:52.01 | Winny | or OS X, only one version ;) |
| 22:52.09 | blast007 | hehe |
| 22:52.20 | JeffM | where features are held back by ONE company ;) |
| 22:52.28 | JeffM | where features == driver updates |
| 22:52.59 | JeffM | the price penalty for OSX is just too high |
| 22:53.44 | JeffM | they don't make a machine for the need I want |
| 22:53.49 | JeffM | so I'd have to by more machine then I want |
| 22:54.25 | Winny | Yeah, a mid-end desktop would be nice |
| 22:54.34 | JeffM | basicly the price apple charges for the RAM upgrade is what my entire hardware upgrade will cost |
| 22:54.44 | Winny | buy the RAM yourself from a 3rd party |
| 22:55.06 | JeffM | they don't sell a 0 ram system ;) |
| 22:55.46 | JeffM | and still the lowest price is 2300$ |
| 22:55.47 | JeffM | no thank you |
| 22:56.08 | Winny | ;) |
| 22:56.56 | PrezKennedy | the price they charge for RAM made me lol |
| 22:57.28 | JeffM | if I could buy OSX and run it on my hardware, I'd probably buy a legit copy |
| 23:03.09 | L4m3r | you technically could do that with a legit copy |
| 23:03.19 | JeffM | and have it supported |
| 23:03.24 | L4m3r | it depends on how breaking an EULA rests with your conscience :) |
| 23:03.36 | JeffM | that's what I mean |
| 23:03.39 | JeffM | not breaking the ula |
| 23:03.53 | JeffM | you can't actualy buy a copy of OSX for a new machine |
| 23:03.57 | JeffM | all they sell are upgrades |
| 23:04.01 | L4m3r | but yeah, there's the support issue too |
| 23:04.20 | JeffM | yeah if I wanted an OS that I'd have to fight with and worry about support, I'd just install linux |
| 23:04.28 | blast007 | :) |
| 23:04.32 | L4m3r | hey! :P |
| 23:04.55 | Winny | ~JeffM+ |
| 23:04.58 | Winny | ~JeffM++ |
| 23:05.00 | JeffM | I still can't get wireless on my laptop to work in ubuntu |
| 23:05.06 | L4m3r | Windows isn't that well-supported either, really |
| 23:05.15 | L4m3r | it's the hardware vendors that do all the support |
| 23:05.18 | JeffM | L4m3r: I dunno, I go to a site, and I get drivers ;) |
| 23:05.25 | L4m3r | M$ has a pretty good gig going in that respect |
| 23:05.26 | JeffM | I didn't say WHO had to do the supporting |
| 23:05.39 | L4m3r | big OEMs actually pay support centers to support Windows :P |
| 23:05.51 | JeffM | by hacking in OSX I have to get my updates from apple, a company who DOES NOT want me to run there software. |
| 23:06.38 | L4m3r | right |
| 23:06.48 | JeffM | so it's a similar pain in the butt |
| 23:07.03 | JeffM | also linux has no IDE I like :) |
| 23:07.10 | L4m3r | you've got me on that one |
| 23:07.20 | JeffM | the VC8 debuger is prety slick |
| 23:07.35 | L4m3r | Linux does not suffer from a lack of support/updates so much as it suffers from some extreme consistency issues |
| 23:07.56 | L4m3r | but such a heterogeneous OS can only be expected to have that problem |
| 23:07.59 | JeffM | it does suffer from support issues |
| 23:08.04 | JeffM | only some things are suported |
| 23:08.07 | JeffM | others are not |
| 23:08.17 | L4m3r | depends on who you ask |
| 23:08.18 | JeffM | such as me actualy connecting to a wireless network |
| 23:08.22 | L4m3r | heh |
| 23:08.28 | L4m3r | what wireless chipset? |
| 23:08.31 | JeffM | intel |
| 23:08.41 | L4m3r | really? wow |
| 23:08.44 | JeffM | yeah |
| 23:08.46 | blast007 | JeffM: on one of my laptops, wireless actually works in linux, but not in XP :P |
| 23:08.55 | JeffM | I mean I can SEE the networks I just can not conenct to them |
| 23:09.18 | L4m3r | my Intel wireless has worked awesomely in linux... pro wireless 3945 ABG, iirc |
| 23:09.40 | JeffM | yeah that's what I heard, intel was good for nix, that's why I paid extra for it in the laptop |
| 23:09.42 | blast007 | yeah, I had good luck with my centrino laptop |
| 23:10.26 | blast007 | had a 200MB LiveCD that worked with sound, wireless, and accelerated graphics |
| 23:10.30 | blast007 | I was impressed |
| 23:15.48 | L4m3r | hehe, you know what actually worked really well with Kubuntu Live? a macbook |
| 23:19.25 | *** join/#bzflag Think_Differentl (n=shedelj@unaffiliated/thinkdifferentl/x-838543) |
| 23:26.41 | BulletCatcher | makes a note to try the Fedora 9 live CD on his MacBook |
| 23:30.45 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (n=JeffM@cpe-75-83-217-37.socal.res.rr.com) |
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| 23:34.43 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 23:36.12 | JeffM | tries to watch season one of lost |
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