| 00:00.01 | Wyk3d | hmm .. disabled "anti-application hijacking" and it works now :-/ |
| 00:00.41 | Wyk3d | apparently if it thinks it's hijacking it doesn't matter what rules you set on it, it still won't let it though |
| 00:01.13 | a_meteorite | blast007: any particular reason? |
| 00:01.41 | a_meteorite | usually 2 ways to do something :) |
| 00:02.16 | blast007 | a_meteorite: well, would you consider using short tags in PHP less compatible with some hosts? not even sure if it's worth my time to replace <? with <?php |
| 00:02.35 | a_meteorite | yes |
| 00:02.44 | a_meteorite | many times you have no control over short tags being enabled |
| 00:02.51 | a_meteorite | and I believe they have deprecated its use |
| 00:02.54 | blast007 | k |
| 00:02.55 | a_meteorite | (for PHP 6) |
| 00:03.02 | blast007 | so that's why I want to get rid of them |
| 00:03.10 | blast007 | the stats site using them :) |
| 00:03.11 | a_meteorite | ah |
| 00:03.16 | blast007 | uses* |
| 00:03.41 | a_meteorite | I think brlcad is Mr. Regex, I only know simple regexes |
| 00:03.56 | Wyk3d | HAH .. found the problem .. it works if I don't start it from the debugger .. if I try to run it from the debugger, devenv starts the app so it thinks it's hijacking :) |
| 00:04.41 | blast007 | suppose I could always pipe it through a second grep that rejects "<?php" :) |
| 00:07.14 | blast007 | a_meteorite: and stuff like "<?=$separator?>" should go to "<?php echo $separator; ?>" ? |
| 00:07.23 | a_meteorite | yes |
| 00:07.45 | blast007 | k |
| 00:07.45 | Wyk3d | LOL .. Sygate's not nuts after all :D.. devenv was a blocked application, and all applications started by blocked applications are blocked regardless of your settings .. which is actually quite smart :) .. unblocked it now and it works |
| 00:07.53 | a_meteorite | that's even a second option I believe |
| 00:10.19 | a_meteorite | Wyk3d: The process hierarchy is a very important concept |
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| 01:30.29 | KingofCamelot | http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~davidsanders/mockup_updated.jpg |
| 01:30.52 | KingofCamelot | Do you think it would be too complicated to use Shift + the underlined letter in the column headers to sort by that column? |
| 01:31.02 | KingofCamelot | So, Shift + A would sort by Address |
| 01:31.04 | KingofCamelot | etc |
| 01:31.04 | CBG | needs more colour to keep the kiddies happy |
| 01:31.19 | me1 | can you make it clicky? |
| 01:31.34 | me1 | that would get rid of the need for keyboard shortcuts |
| 01:32.03 | CBG | indeed |
| 01:32.05 | me1 | (at least for the list) |
| 01:32.43 | KingofCamelot | The menus are keyboard accessible, not mouse. That's not going to change. |
| 01:32.53 | me1 | ok |
| 01:32.54 | KingofCamelot | It'll have more color in the final version. :P |
| 01:33.06 | CBG | How much colour? |
| 01:33.35 | KingofCamelot | Similar to what the current listing has |
| 01:34.03 | me1 | there seems enough space to show the commands for changing to the tab, i.e. : address (shift-a) | name: (shift-s) | players: (shift-d) |
| 01:34.18 | CBG | Need Mo Colour! |
| 01:34.34 | me1 | is showing the game type as a column being considered? |
| 01:34.51 | KingofCamelot | Not a bad idea |
| 01:34.56 | KingofCamelot | Would be fairly easy to do too |
| 01:35.24 | me1 | how are the filters toggled? |
| 01:35.55 | CBG | Why not tabs for each type of game too? (CTF, FFA, Rabbit)? |
| 01:36.11 | KingofCamelot | I'm thinking that there will be a key which will take you to the filters box, and from there it's just like any other menu, up, down, etc |
| 01:36.43 | me1 | heh, my idea was using tab or some other key to switch menus :) |
| 01:37.31 | CBG | A column / filter for map name too..? Would be very handy for rotations, I imagine. |
| 01:38.50 | KingofCamelot | Map names don't exist at the moment |
| 01:39.12 | CBG | "at the moment" is my point. Maybe they should..? :) |
| 01:39.28 | KingofCamelot | They will in the future |
| 01:39.38 | CBG | Cool. |
| 01:40.03 | me1 | maybe since the shot count is counted, a filter for shots, like "3" or ">3" "<3" etc. |
| 01:40.20 | KingofCamelot | Yea, not all the filters are put in, those are just example ones |
| 01:40.34 | KingofCamelot | Adding more filters is easy enough, so there will be more. |
| 01:40.58 | CBG | Any chance of adding a "Buddy" feature where you have a list of buddies who you can add to and remove. Then have a buddy option on the main menu to see which buddies are online and join their server. There would also be a Buddy tab on the server list listing any servers buddies are playing on. Big feature I know. |
| 01:41.23 | KingofCamelot | In the future, possibly. |
| 01:42.07 | CBG | Re: shot count. How about a field for the user to enter a number and "<" and ">" buttons to press/depress. That would give more flexibility. |
| 01:42.52 | KingofCamelot | Again, definitely a possibility. :) |
| 01:43.12 | KingofCamelot | Right now the main thing I need to figure out is the keyboard shortcuts, without making them too complicated |
| 01:43.31 | CBG | Just throwing ideas out there from other games I've played since bz. Feel free o use and abuse as you see fit. |
| 01:43.32 | me1 | filter: Show servers hosted by noobs "false" |
| 01:43.39 | CBG | heh. |
| 01:43.48 | a_meteorite | me1: I would so pay for that |
| 01:43.53 | CBG | Adult Language Severs on/off filter. |
| 01:44.26 | me1 | not all servers have filters, even if bad language is not allowed |
| 01:45.28 | CBG | Unofficial graphics (those not hosted at bzflag.org and hence requiring a modified downloadaccess.txt to see) filter? (I imagine some people don't want to modify the download access and also don't want to play on a completely white server... ;) ) |
| 01:45.46 | CBG | me1: But some explicitly allow bad language. |
| 01:46.15 | CBG | And that's another point. Maybe a default profanity filter can be built into bzfs and turned on by default..? :) |
| 01:47.35 | CBG | It would also be cool to let folk colourise their server names but then to have a filter to have them displayed in black (or white on black, whatever). |
| 01:49.32 | KingofCamelot | gotta run, but you can keep the ideas coming.:) |
| 01:49.41 | CBG | Will do, if I have any more. |
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| 02:00.50 | CBG | Ok, best idea ever. Would be nice to be a part of the game and run globally across all publically listed servers minus those that opt out but could also just be a plugin running on a single server / small network. This is actually really two ideas but I think they work well together. 1. Classes. Yeah, like TF2. You type "+spy" and each time you spawn you're given a ST. |
| 02:01.14 | CBG | I believe I saw a plugin very much like this before I quit some 2 years ago. Could just not call it classes and instead just choose a flag to spawn with. Can be changed on the fly but you don't get the new flag until you respawn. Guess it depends if you can think of a class name for eery good flag type out there. ;) |
| 02:02.21 | CBG | And 2. Achievements. But these could just be some kind of points of credits. The more you do certain things with certain flags (as certain classes) the more points/credits you get which after time, you can spend on upgrades of some kind or on unlocking other classes (flags). |
| 02:03.15 | pacman87 | CBG: but at some point, you're not playing bzflag anymore... |
| 02:03.50 | CBG | The certain things you would do could range from just killing someone with a SW flag - 1 point, to killing 3 people with a single SW blast - 5 points. etc. Capping flags would also b worth points, etc. Not sure how you can upgrade anything though without server settings being able to be set on a per tank basis. |
| 02:03.54 | CBG | pacman87: how so? |
| 02:04.38 | pacman87 | the 'across all servers' part |
| 02:04.49 | blast007 | CBG: plugins could do that stuff |
| 02:04.52 | pacman87 | most of what you describe... |
| 02:04.56 | pacman87 | blast beat me to it |
| 02:04.57 | blast007 | it's not something that should be part of the core BZFlag |
| 02:05.09 | CBG | blast007: change server settings on a per tank basis? |
| 02:05.26 | blast007 | server settings? |
| 02:05.28 | blast007 | I see score changes |
| 02:05.36 | blast007 | that's all |
| 02:05.41 | CBG | blast007: and why not? I basically just suggested turning BZ into TF2 which is vastly more popular despite costing real money. ;) |
| 02:05.52 | brlcad | KingofCamelot: not so hot on the mockup nor the idea that special keybindings would be the only way to sort |
| 02:06.00 | CBG | I am proposing "class upgrades". |
| 02:06.01 | blast007 | you will be able to change the user's score in 3.0 |
| 02:06.28 | blast007 | yeah, so you give them a flag |
| 02:06.44 | CBG | Score has nothing to do with it. You earn credits which are independant of score and can effectively be "spent" on upgrades. |
| 02:06.45 | blast007 | that's already been done in 2.0.x |
| 02:06.49 | brlcad | KingofCamelot: I'd expect to be able to use the arrow keys to navigate from the tabs down to the column headers (where selecting each header enables/toggles a sort) to the server lines for starters |
| 02:06.54 | pacman87 | the only thing the plugin couldnt' do is keep upgrades across servers |
| 02:06.55 | blast007 | score was in response to your second idea |
| 02:06.58 | blast007 | achievements |
| 02:07.02 | CBG | No, I am suggesting that perhaps I spend credits to make my SW range greater than yours. |
| 02:07.11 | blast007 | that's stupid |
| 02:07.18 | CBG | Maybe so. |
| 02:07.29 | CBG | But more to the point, it's not possible, right? |
| 02:07.34 | pacman87 | plugin |
| 02:07.35 | blast007 | not that, no |
| 02:07.47 | CBG | No, pacman87, a plugin can not do that. |
| 02:07.50 | pacman87 | well, i guess you can't set a specific sw radius |
| 02:07.56 | pacman87 | it's all global still |
| 02:07.58 | CBG | A server setting is a SERVER setting... |
| 02:07.59 | pacman87 | my mistake |
| 02:08.01 | brlcad | KingofCamelot: and the filters and server info section seem to be getting way too much realestate when the primary purpose of the menu is the list |
| 02:09.21 | CBG | But in response to the intellectual "that's stupid" point, it could be that I spend points to simple "alter" my class rather than "upgrade". I could choose for a wider SW range but longer reload time or longer spread time (if you catch my meaning, i forget the server vars after so long). |
| 02:09.58 | CBG | But then we're getting to the point of asking "Then why do we need the whole points system if we're just customising our weapons and nobody has an advantage..?". |
| 02:10.46 | blast007 | sounds like a lot of work for little improvement |
| 02:10.54 | CBG | I'm just putting ideas out there. Trying to improve the game. That's a lot more than can be said of a lot of people (with the devs being the main exceptions, of course). |
| 02:10.58 | CBG | Yes, perhaps. |
| 02:11.05 | blast007 | I thought you don't even play anymore |
| 02:11.17 | CBG | I don't. Not really. |
| 02:11.35 | CBG | But what does that matter? The game has not been updated once since I quit. |
| 02:11.44 | blast007 | that's not true |
| 02:11.46 | CBG | So it's not like I missed some radical new features. :P |
| 02:12.00 | CBG | How so? The current release is still 2.0.10, am I right? |
| 02:12.21 | blast007 | technically 2.0.12, but that's just build system fixes for linux mainly |
| 02:12.30 | CBG | Which, iirc, was mainly just a bug fix anyway. |
| 02:12.45 | CBG | Ok, I'm not running linux so... 2.0.10 for me still. |
| 02:13.17 | blast007 | have you tried 2.99.x at all? |
| 02:13.29 | blast007 | there have been some changes there |
| 02:13.44 | blast007 | nothing huge as far as end user differences, but lots of changes behind the scenes |
| 02:14.06 | blast007 | there is some graphical improvements, a new game mode (Open FFA), a couple new flags |
| 02:14.20 | CBG | If you want to disregard ideas from a non-active player, fine. Perhaps I am out of the loop and out of touch with what bz players are into now. But I did spend a lot of time and money hosting servers in the past, making maps, helping others as much as I could and donating money to the project and the developers. So I'm not trying to ruin your precious little game here. |
| 02:14.21 | blast007 | a new font system, and support for UTF-8 |
| 02:14.36 | CBG | Not touched the latest stuff, no. |
| 02:15.00 | blast007 | your ideas are nice, and you're free to fork the game |
| 02:15.08 | CBG | Have played for a total of about 2-3 hours only in the last 12 months. |
| 02:15.10 | blast007 | but I don't think it's something that will be put into the core BZFlag |
| 02:15.11 | CBG | Heh. I wish I had time. |
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| 02:15.21 | CBG | No and I'm sure you're right. |
| 02:15.50 | CBG | But I don't see why it would be an issue on such a basic level. Servers could opt out. |
| 02:16.22 | blast007 | or they could opt-in via a plugin |
| 02:16.28 | blast007 | (for some of that) |
| 02:16.35 | blast007 | I just don't see how it really benefits us |
| 02:16.45 | blast007 | it just adds complexity |
| 02:17.07 | CBG | If the community in general objected to the whole upgrade/customisation principle, fair enough. But if players are just building up credits across a vast majority of servers to slighty alter the game to their liking, there doesn't seem to be a downside. |
| 02:17.20 | CBG | Except, yes, work for you chaps. Which I do understand. |
| 02:17.44 | blast007 | the players don't always decide what goes into the game. If they did, we'd have had tilting tanks and rotating turrents years ago. ;) |
| 02:17.54 | blast007 | turrets* |
| 02:18.04 | CBG | I'd fork bzflag in a heartbeat and tinker with it for days if the code was anywhere near understandable for a newbie. |
| 02:18.08 | JeffM | turrents are torrents with guns |
| 02:18.14 | CBG | Hah, true. |
| 02:18.15 | blast007 | hehe.. |
| 02:18.34 | blast007 | CBG: forking isn't for newbies :) |
| 02:18.59 | CBG | Hey! Lets have an engineer class so I can create static tanks around the map that automitcally shoot at enemies! We'll call them.... sentries. :P |
| 02:19.09 | JeffM | I'd like to know of any project that is forkable by someone who dosn't know much about programing. |
| 02:19.21 | JeffM | or you can just play TF2 |
| 02:19.31 | blast007 | hehe |
| 02:19.37 | CBG | blast007: well, true. Though I had expected to be past the newbie stage after a year studying "Games Dev. and A.I." :( |
| 02:19.44 | CBG | JeffM: yes, I was teasing :P |
| 02:19.48 | blast007 | JeffM: you missed the part about him suggesting classes and achievements ;) |
| 02:19.54 | JeffM | I did not |
| 02:19.59 | JeffM | I just choose not to respond to them |
| 02:20.10 | CBG | Thanks for the hostility. |
| 02:20.12 | blast007 | oh, guess you did see them |
| 02:20.25 | CBG | I'll sod off and leave you in peace if being here is an issue. |
| 02:20.34 | JeffM | I was being abmivlent, not hostile :) |
| 02:20.49 | JeffM | ideas are always good to get out to discuss |
| 02:21.03 | CBG | I resent the "someone who dosn't know much about programing" remark:. |
| 02:21.05 | JeffM | I was also leaving to come to this resuruant |
| 02:21.20 | JeffM | CBG, how else would you describe a newb as you put it |
| 02:21.26 | JeffM | I thought that was what you were saying |
| 02:21.28 | blast007 | CBG: even if it's true? I mean, you said it yourself |
| 02:21.35 | JeffM | someone who isn't that expericned in programing |
| 02:21.43 | JeffM | no offence was made for it |
| 02:21.56 | blast007 | "I'd fork bzflag in a heartbeat and tinker with it for days if the code was anywhere near understandable for a newbie." |
| 02:22.02 | JeffM | those that have some expericne in programing should be able to fork it if they take the time |
| 02:22.11 | JeffM | if not I'd like to know what the dificuties are |
| 02:22.32 | blast007 | "nobody wants 2 play mai fork!" |
| 02:22.33 | CBG | I think I know a fair bit about programming. Just not enough in the apprpriate area and language. |
| 02:22.41 | JeffM | ahh |
| 02:22.46 | JeffM | then you are partway there :) |
| 02:22.55 | blast007 | if BZFlag was written in HTML and PHP, you'd be set :) |
| 02:23.03 | JeffM | I can understand not having experince in game programing and looking at the bzflag code |
| 02:23.06 | JeffM | it can be daunintg |
| 02:23.11 | JeffM | bzflag's code does suck |
| 02:23.13 | CBG | I could build a PHP driven CMS better than anything available for free at this current time, imho, if I had the drive to do so. |
| 02:23.20 | JeffM | cool |
| 02:23.30 | CBG | But, no, game dev in C/C++ I know little about. My uni course sucks. |
| 02:23.54 | JeffM | that's the aspects of programing I was refering to, not "in general" sorry if it offended you |
| 02:24.05 | CBG | Wll, it rocks if you're a lazy bum who just likes playing games all day long (90% of my peers. I've quickly joined thei'r ranks too.) |
| 02:24.24 | JeffM | this will sound silly, but "windows game programing for dummies" is actualy a REALY good book on the basics |
| 02:25.08 | CBG | I suspect so, Jeff, but if anything I am tired of being ahead of the class. |
| 02:25.10 | CBG | The maths we've been doing is suff I aced 4-5 years ago but some guys are struggling. |
| 02:25.22 | JeffM | fun |
| 02:25.53 | CBG | The C/C++ we've done is basic. The most we've learnt in a year is basically how to ask for inputs, do a simple math function and print the result. |
| 02:26.48 | CBG | The only module in which I have learnt anything was DataBase Theory. I feel like I've wasted a year o my life playing games. I suppose it was fun at least. |
| 02:32.38 | CBG | But anyway, enough of that. I suppose I like the idea of building up credits and adding a slight RPG element to the game but don't want to unbalance anything by allowing "upgrades". But on the other hand, simple cosmetic changes seem pointless and makes the whole thing a waste of time. |
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| 03:29.54 | KingofCamelot | @brlcad, so what do you think needs to change from the mock-up? |
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| 03:41.37 | brlcad | KingofCamelot: different layout? maybe show navigatable regions (where will hitting the arrow keys let me go) |
| 03:42.59 | brlcad | not keen on filtering as is -- there's got to be a more effective way to do that, maybe as a footer row to the server list where you can fill in fields and turn things on/off |
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| 03:44.34 | brlcad | the server info could possibly take up the bottom third or so, though my inclination has been towards a server-specific info page |
| 03:47.12 | brlcad | filtering really is akin to searching would could also be seen as a separate section/menu/whatever that generates a custom server list result tab |
| 03:47.50 | KingofCamelot | Hmm |
| 03:48.10 | KingofCamelot | I disagree...but I'm the tool, not the mastermind. :P |
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| 03:51.43 | brlcad | disagree on what point? a lot was implied there |
| 03:52.23 | KingofCamelot | Server-specific info page, having the filtering make a custom result tab |
| 03:52.42 | KingofCamelot | although being able to define new tabs would be a nice feature, I think you should be able to filter the normal tabs without creating a new one |
| 03:53.30 | brlcad | the server-specific info page is only if there's too much info for the main page, which eventually I'd hope there would be (e.g. a means for servers to provide info for the page, welcome message, server map, stats, etc) |
| 03:53.58 | brlcad | so that's entirely secondary at this point -- it's more whether there is already too much info to show it cleanly on that one menu |
| 03:54.13 | brlcad | we do it now, so probably not too much |
| 03:55.02 | brlcad | creating new tabs was just an implementation detail/idea -- how to convey a "filtered" search result without making the interface be stateful |
| 03:56.17 | brlcad | statefulness just leads to modality errors (e.g. some user turns on some filtering option that becomes persistent and they don't realize "that's what that checkbox means", it's an implied state instead of an action result |
| 03:56.33 | KingofCamelot | I think there's enough room at the moment to fit the server-specific info, although I see what you mean. |
| 03:57.27 | KingofCamelot | IMO, it's nice to be able to turn filters on and off easily on the different tabs, favorites, recent, etc |
| 03:57.58 | KingofCamelot | Could have a master on/off for filters if you think they'll get left on by mistake. |
| 04:00.25 | brlcad | if they reset every time a user leaves the menu, it's not so much an issue -- but if they're turned on and left on (e.g. maybe I always only want to see ducati-style servers), then it has to be really evident that data is missing |
| 04:00.36 | brlcad | and that's not easy to do |
| 04:01.03 | KingofCamelot | Ok, we could make them reset every time the user leaves the menu |
| 04:01.06 | brlcad | that's where the custom "smart list" comes in, akin to organizing your music in itunes -- they do it that way for the same reason |
| 04:03.53 | KingofCamelot | Well, at the moment I'm at a loss for what I can be doing to get a design nailed down, since my opinions on the subject obviously conflict |
| 04:08.09 | KingofCamelot | Basically I'm saying that I can't make any final calls on this, it's your guys' menu in the end, but until some final calls get made I feel like my hands are tied, there's really nothing useful I can do in the mean time. |
| 04:08.57 | brlcad | i'm still not clear on what's actually in "conflict"? |
| 04:09.48 | brlcad | so server-specific info can be out for now, you think it can fit, so go for that then |
| 04:10.09 | KingofCamelot | Well, how the filtering options are going to be implemented |
| 04:10.18 | brlcad | otherwise the rest was being explicit on what/where you can navigate, and balancing the screen realestate a little more with the intent |
| 04:12.14 | brlcad | so you don't want to implement smart lists, fine -- that's still not conflicting |
| 04:12.40 | brlcad | the main point was statefulness which is what sticks and what doesn't |
| 04:13.05 | brlcad | and the actual presentation of those option -- which seems really crappy as a box off to the side |
| 04:14.16 | KingofCamelot | Ok, so what other options do we have for displaying the filter options? |
| 04:14.19 | brlcad | it applies to the list above it, needs to be associated with the list so that it's clear that changing those options affect the list results |
| 04:15.00 | brlcad | maybe try making that a horizontal section underneath the server list spanning across, similar to the title row but being a footer that filters the above |
| 04:16.22 | brlcad | the options even correspond to the various columns -- jumping is akin to a checkbox on the J row, same with rico, "Server Name" is a text box filter under that column, not full corresponds with the Players column, etc |
| 04:17.20 | KingofCamelot | I think that may come out looking kind of crowded. Can you do a mock-up of what you mean? |
| 04:19.09 | brlcad | I can, but it'll take a while (and you really should try first yourself) |
| 04:20.09 | KingofCamelot | As in me make the mock-up? |
| 04:22.11 | brlcad | absolutely |
| 04:22.48 | KingofCamelot | Well...I don't really know what you're getting at, with how it should look |
| 04:25.27 | brlcad | hm, and my bs meter is going off :) give it a try with your filters section in a horizontal layout instead of as a left box -- there's LOTS that can be tried with that |
| 04:26.10 | brlcad | forget the server info for now |
| 04:26.48 | KingofCamelot | Ok... |
| 04:28.09 | brlcad | unless you want to show that as a top or bottom spanning section too, but it doesn't have direct input or navigation |
| 04:28.26 | brlcad | so it's not as big an issue |
| 04:35.59 | KingofCamelot | http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~davidsanders/mockup_updated2.jpg |
| 04:36.01 | KingofCamelot | Like that? |
| 04:37.08 | pacman87 | you might want a +/-/empty for the box, rather than filled/empty |
| 04:37.18 | pacman87 | with/without/don't care |
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| 04:39.58 | brlcad | yeah, that's a LOT better .. some tweaking details, but the options tie to the table now |
| 04:41.02 | pacman87 | add a column for gametype? ffa/ctf/rabbit |
| 04:41.07 | KingofCamelot | Um, ok, if you say so. :) IMHO it looks bad that way, but you da boss. :P |
| 04:41.12 | brlcad | visually you could remove the lines so "Not Full:" isn't squeezed in there, could be slightly taller to add a "this is a filter section" style label |
| 04:41.45 | brlcad | KingofCamelot: I don't mean the specific appearance -- I'd hope to heck it doesn't end up looking exactly like that :) |
| 04:41.58 | brlcad | i mean where the data and options are in relation to each other |
| 04:42.04 | brlcad | and overall spatail organization |
| 04:43.29 | KingofCamelot | Mmm k...if you say so. I was refering to the whole horizontal organization of it. BTW, how will the options be set now? |
| 04:43.42 | KingofCamelot | All the other menus have the options scrolled through with up/down and set with left/right |
| 04:43.53 | KingofCamelot | These will be scroll through with left/right and set with up/down? |
| 04:44.00 | brlcad | you're pretty darn cynical .. what don't you like about it? |
| 04:44.04 | brlcad | be specific |
| 04:44.18 | KingofCamelot | Not trying to be cynical. :) |
| 04:44.41 | KingofCamelot | Just seems to be squishing the server fliter options in there, that's all |
| 04:44.55 | brlcad | so make the section bigger/taller |
| 04:45.01 | short_circuit | squishing? |
| 04:45.04 | brlcad | like I said, remove the lines |
| 04:45.11 | brlcad | there's no need for them down there |
| 04:45.14 | KingofCamelot | I mean horizontally squishing, not so much vertically |
| 04:45.23 | short_circuit | That does changer as per resolution right? |
| 04:45.42 | KingofCamelot | It will...at the moment mock-up pictures are fairly static. :P |
| 04:47.03 | short_circuit | s/nothing/extra 4 on change |
| 04:47.09 | brlcad | the Page 1 of 27 is the only other aspect that's bugsome .. the whole line is a lot of wasted space too |
| 04:47.10 | short_circuit | 4=r |
| 04:47.12 | short_circuit | yeesh |
| 04:47.33 | brlcad | since there's no navigation displayed for how paging works, indication of where you're at or that you can page |
| 04:48.36 | KingofCamelot | Well, that's another issue I have with having the filter options horizontally at the bottom |
| 04:48.41 | KingofCamelot | How do you ever get to them? |
| 04:48.54 | KingofCamelot | If you're on the servers, and you hit down, you're going to keep scrolling down the server list |
| 04:48.59 | brlcad | it's really scrolling the middle section of course, so some indication there would be in order |
| 04:49.13 | short_circuit | tab arrow :) |
| 04:49.15 | short_circuit | sry. |
| 04:49.20 | short_circuit | :-x |
| 04:49.32 | brlcad | KingofCamelot: how were you supposed to get to them before? |
| 04:50.27 | KingofCamelot | Was going to have a key press take your focus to the filter box, then either a 'Done' option to hit enter on, or press the same button again to return your focus to where it was |
| 04:51.50 | brlcad | well you could still do exactly that, no? |
| 04:52.11 | brlcad | not that I like that for either -- you should be able to key-pad navigate like all other menus |
| 04:52.36 | KingofCamelot | That's what I was going to say, I thought part of why you wanted to move it was for navigation |
| 04:52.46 | KingofCamelot | Not sure how we could make it key-pad only |
| 04:53.33 | brlcad | becomes really easy as a custom smart filter tab *ahem* :) |
| 04:54.21 | brlcad | left-left-left-enter .. enter your info on the filter panel/menu, adds a new tab, left-enter, up/down to select a server |
| 04:54.38 | brlcad | but I digress :) |
| 04:54.40 | short_circuit | w0rd... what's wrong with that |
| 04:55.55 | short_circuit | select server type, scroll server list sorted by user option <say number of players standard, blah blah |
| 04:56.30 | short_circuit | hopes he didn't miss the target too bad. |
| 04:56.32 | KingofCamelot | Your left-left-left-enter doesn't mention how you got to the filter panel in the first place. :) |
| 04:57.19 | short_circuit | a key that jumps from group to group of menus? |
| 04:58.01 | short_circuit | Or are you asking much more precisely? |
| 04:58.25 | KingofCamelot | Was asking brlcad, sinc ehe wants to keep it to key-pad navigation |
| 04:59.13 | short_circuit | was thinking of using a non gui browser kinda |
| 04:59.24 | pacman87 | current server screen uses '/' to move to the search window |
| 04:59.34 | brlcad | KingofCamelot: left-left-left-enter GETS you to the filter panel -- left-right would hilight a tab, one tab being some smart filter section |
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| 05:00.02 | brlcad | e.g. a tab always on the far right might be the "Custom" or 'Custom Filter' tab |
| 05:00.28 | KingofCamelot | Ok, so in that case there would be no filter options at the bottom of the list? |
| 05:00.30 | brlcad | so you'd tab to it, fill in your parameters, and you'd have a new tab appear to the left of the custom tab |
| 05:00.33 | brlcad | right |
| 05:01.13 | brlcad | so the interface really does become just left/right up/down in a simple grid |
| 05:01.24 | short_circuit | ftw |
| 05:02.13 | brlcad | left-right on tabs, left-right on header row to sort, up/down to go from tabs to header row to server list |
| 05:02.58 | KingofCamelot | More clarification on the left-right to sort the header row? |
| 05:03.47 | brlcad | so say navigation starts with focus on the first server entry, down arrow would scroll the list down, up would scroll it up until you're at the top of the list (which is where you start) |
| 05:04.37 | brlcad | from there, if you hit up-arrow, it'd take you to the header row -- you could left-right on each column header to sort on that column, hit again to reverse the sort |
| 05:04.43 | KingofCamelot | Yea, I get that. If you go up past the top of the list you're on the header, go up again you're on the tabs |
| 05:05.04 | brlcad | down-arrow takes you back to the list, up-arrow again takes you to the tabs -- left/right on the tabs highlights that tab, enter selects |
| 05:05.13 | KingofCamelot | So right would move you to the server name header, what key makes it sort by that? |
| 05:05.29 | pacman87 | what happens when you press left/right in the server entry field ( where you start ) ? |
| 05:07.23 | brlcad | nothing? could maybe scroll by page or scroll same as up/down but the "hilight" would be a whole row |
| 05:07.45 | brlcad | KingofCamelot: enter? |
| 05:09.01 | brlcad | could still have the column-specific key-binding shortcuts (e.g. shift-s) |
| 05:09.02 | KingofCamelot | Ok, just wanted to make sure we're on the same page there. Enter sorts it by that column, enter again reverse sorts it by that column |
| 05:09.08 | brlcad | yep |
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| 05:11.18 | KingofCamelot | Ok, looks like I should get on making tabs then. Haven't gotten the code for that together yet, shouldn't take too long though. |
| 05:12.06 | KingofCamelot | Is multiple inheritance a no-no for BZFlag? |
| 05:12.23 | JeffMMain | does it all the time in the API :) |
| 05:13.57 | brlcad | I'd say multiple abstract inheritance is fine, we do that a lot -- multiple implementation inheritance is generally frowned on |
| 05:14.37 | brlcad | e.g. fine for something to inherit from Singleton<>, be an abstract Factory<>, and inherit from PlatformManager |
| 05:15.22 | KingofCamelot | Ok, cause I've got a HUDuiNestedControl class which HUDuiScrollList derives from, and in turn HUDuiServerList derives from that. I was thinking I'd make tabs a HUDuiTabbedControl class, but I don't necessarily want to make all HUDuiScrollLists tabbed |
| 05:17.18 | brlcad | hm, not quite how I'd probably do it, but not a big deal (to me at least) either |
| 05:18.13 | KingofCamelot | I don't know very much about C++ inheritence, but I was thinking I could have HUDuiServerList inherit from HUDuiScrollList and HUDuiTabbedControl? |
| 05:18.41 | JeffMMain | do they have any virtual methods with the same signature? |
| 05:19.37 | KingofCamelot | ScrollList and TabbedControl? |
| 05:19.43 | JeffMMain | yes |
| 05:19.44 | brlcad | seems to be that uiserverlist *has* a tabbed control and a scroll list, not "isa" |
| 05:19.57 | KingofCamelot | Haven't created TabbedControl yet, so not sure. :P |
| 05:20.44 | KingofCamelot | brlcad, hmmm? |
| 05:21.07 | KingofCamelot | Right now, HUDuiScrollList is a HUDuiNestedContainer, and HUDuiServerList is a HUDuiScrollList |
| 05:23.14 | brlcad | yeah, with tabbing, it seems more to me that HUDuiServerList has a HUDuiScrollList and has a (new) HUDuiTabbedControl |
| 05:23.51 | brlcad | or is a nested container, nesting a scrolllist and tabs |
| 05:25.00 | brlcad | has vs is-a being the key and unarguably there being a few viable ways to get the same result |
| 05:25.41 | brlcad | that'd be a good one to talk over with DTRemenak since he's more familiar with how much work that really is with the ui classes as they are presently written |
| 05:26.06 | KingofCamelot | DTRemenak, ping |
| 05:26.13 | brlcad | he's not here |
| 05:27.20 | KingofCamelot | D'oh, didn't notice that, he normally is |
| 05:27.32 | KingofCamelot | Anyways, I think it'll be easier the way you're suggesting it actually |
| 05:27.43 | KingofCamelot | So I'll give it a shot that way. |
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| 05:29.14 | Lukstr | heh |
| 05:29.38 | brlcad | he's psychic |
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| 05:32.44 | brlcad | DTRemenak: KingofCamelot and I were talking about ui inheritance -- if he's making a "server list control" that is both scrollable and tabbable, what would be a good hierarchical approach wrt the ui classes? |
| 05:33.52 | brlcad | given there are HUDuiNestedContainer's, HUDuiScrollList's, HUDuiServerList's, and (eventually) HUDuiTabbedControl's -- particular considering is-a/has-a relationships |
| 05:35.36 | brlcad | I'd suggested having HUDuiServerLists be HUDuiNestedContainers that have HUDuiScrollLists and HUDuiTabbedControls but I've not looked into how much coding/refactoring that might actually involve |
| 05:37.44 | KingofCamelot | Now that I think abot it, HUDuiServerLists really do need to be HUDuiScrollLists, and not containers with HUDuiScrollLists |
| 05:38.50 | KingofCamelot | Could do a HUDuiServerListTabbed, which is derived from HUDuiTabbedControl, and then contains a HUDuiServerlist |
| 05:40.39 | brlcad | nah, composition like that for the sole purpose of avoiding multiple inheritance is silly |
| 05:40.58 | brlcad | why does it "really do need to be" one (implying inheritance)? |
| 05:44.32 | KingofCamelot | Because HUDuiServerList is a HUDuiScrollList tweaked to add the sorting and filtering options |
| 05:47.01 | KingofCamelot | It's a special type of a scroll list |
| 05:47.06 | brlcad | fwiw, it 'could' do that via has-a or is-a |
| 05:47.14 | brlcad | and it makes complete sense as just a scrolling list |
| 05:48.10 | brlcad | it's specifically the act of adding tabbing that changes it's nature to having a scroll region along with tabbability |
| 05:48.25 | brlcad | again, not a big deal -- do what you think makes sense unless dtr chimes in to the contrary |
| 05:49.18 | brlcad | they all get the same end-result, so it's really not woth the effort if it'd take a week to refactor/retest existing functionality to make it "clean" |
| 05:52.44 | KingofCamelot | I don't really see how it could be done via 'has-a'. The sorting and filtering needs access to the internal data of the HUDuiScrollList, so unless HUDuiServerList was a friend class of HUDuiScrolList, it couldn't do those sortings and filterings. |
| 05:54.06 | brlcad | it'd require refactoring HUDuiScrollList |
| 05:54.30 | brlcad | or you request the data, sort |
| 05:55.36 | brlcad | or if sorting is all it really provides, could make that a built-in feature of huduiscrolllists |
| 05:56.02 | brlcad | interesting conference -- anyone ever been to SD Best Practices? |
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| 05:59.00 | KingofCamelot | Can't be a built-in feature of HUDuiScrollLists, since the sorting is by server specific criteria |
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| 06:12.05 | brlcad | that's where huduiserverlist adds the knowledge that it's server specific, but huduiscrolllist would merely have a concept of a generic table of values, ability to sort any column based on sorting criteria |
| 06:12.57 | brlcad | similar to how std::lists are sortable, default to alphabetic but you can override to anything -- it becomes a generic "table" container that scrolls |
| 06:13.22 | brlcad | anyways, like I said -- one of many many completely valid ways it can be implemented |
| 06:14.02 | brlcad | just not true that "it can't be" .. it's whatever it's made to be, which can be pretty much anything |
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| 12:55.31 | short_circuit | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:55.36 | short_circuit | hehe |
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| 13:43.48 | spldart | bzzzt |
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| 13:44.29 | MPS_ | hi |
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| 13:58.48 | Danji | MPS you seen AA lately? |
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| 14:38.46 | MPS_ | Danji: nah |
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| 14:39.49 | Dialup_Addict | Wow. Useless mines + quick keys = hilarious |
| 14:39.57 | blast007 | heh |
| 14:40.13 | CBG | quick keys? |
| 14:40.18 | Dialup_Addict | yeah |
| 14:40.38 | Winny | Input Settings -> Key Mapping -> Define Quick Keys |
| 14:41.12 | Dialup_Addict | I have it set so that option-F1 types /mine sw, option-F2 /mine cr, and option-F3 does /mine sr |
| 14:41.25 | brad | Dialup_Addict is using DSL :O |
| 14:41.35 | brad | fraud! |
| 14:41.45 | Dialup_Addict | Then I just set the mines wherever I picked up the useless flag |
| 14:42.01 | Dialup_Addict | And I just cycle through F1/F2/F3 |
| 14:42.16 | Dialup_Addict | Mines everywhere |
| 14:42.22 | spldart | Dialup_Addict must not be far from me 8-0 |
| 14:43.53 | Macskeeball1 | I'm not a dial-up addict, I just that it was a silly name to make people go "huh?" |
| 14:46.45 | Macskeeball1 | If anyone is in the mood for a laugh and wants to see what I mean about the mines, come join me on unstable-bzflag.servegame.org port 9020 |
| 14:47.05 | Macskeeball1 | It's pretty crazy, and funny if you don't take it seriously. |
| 14:48.09 | ts | brad: Well, ADSL utilizing PPPoE is kind of dialup. :) |
| 14:51.11 | Macskeeball1 | I haven't used dialup in ages, I just thought the idea of a dialup addict was an amusing concept. |
| 14:51.22 | Macskeeball1 | "Dialup forever! Yeah!" |
| 14:51.34 | Macskeeball1 | Or not |
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| 16:21.29 | JeffM | whoot, one more shirt and we break 700$ :) |
| 16:22.17 | tj13820 | :) |
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| 16:27.32 | ruskie | woho |
| 16:29.52 | tj13820 | JeffM: fastmap is working on the Windows build, and you can play for more than ~15 seconds now. |
| 16:29.59 | JeffM | cool |
| 16:30.08 | tj13820 | That is pretty cool |
| 16:30.19 | JeffM | we do try to fix things we break :) |
| 16:31.33 | tj13820 | lol, well, i figured i'd give it a go this morning (morning for me) and it works well. Other than lag (which is to be expected) it is very fast. |
| 16:31.45 | JeffM | why is lag expected? |
| 16:31.49 | tj13820 | it is beta |
| 16:31.56 | tj13820 | and a whole new system |
| 16:31.57 | JeffM | what does that have to do with network lag? |
| 16:32.04 | tj13820 | 4956Ms |
| 16:32.06 | tj13820 | xD |
| 16:32.12 | JeffM | the lag reporting is broken |
| 16:32.16 | tj13820 | ahh |
| 16:32.23 | JeffM | how was the acutal lag? |
| 16:32.28 | tj13820 | really, none |
| 16:32.33 | JeffM | good |
| 16:32.44 | JeffM | trunk has lag compensation ( that may be broken) |
| 16:32.48 | tj13820 | the map loaded, in about 5 seconds, and i didn't see flickering walls or anything of the sort. |
| 16:32.57 | tj13820 | ah |
| 16:32.58 | JeffM | flickering is a graphics issue |
| 16:33.01 | JeffM | not a lag issue |
| 16:33.07 | tj13820 | no, i DIDn't see them |
| 16:33.14 | JeffM | I know |
| 16:33.19 | JeffM | but that still has nothing to do witth lag ;) |
| 16:33.20 | tj13820 | oh |
| 16:33.23 | tj13820 | xD |
| 16:33.30 | tj13820 | it was really smooth though |
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| 16:33.50 | tj13820 | It is pretty much playable now |
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| 16:33.51 | JeffM | did you play against anyone else or another client? |
| 16:34.08 | tj13820 | No, i'm going to ask a friend, whome i had compile in Mac, to try it |
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| 16:34.17 | tj13820 | When he gets on |
| 16:34.25 | JeffM | then I would not say it was playable untill you play it :) |
| 16:34.31 | tj13820 | yeah. |
| 16:34.37 | JeffM | all you did was show that your local state is smooth |
| 16:34.38 | tj13820 | that's what i'm going to attempt today |
| 16:35.01 | tj13820 | i'll let you know when i try it out with someone |
| 16:44.32 | jameswf-home | ping TimRiker |
| 16:44.56 | JeffM | anyting we can help you with jameswf-home ? |
| 16:45.19 | jameswf-home | JeffM: looking for a dump of one of his bots :) |
| 16:45.24 | JeffM | ahh |
| 16:45.44 | tj13820 | JeffM: we are playing on the Map, it is smooth, other than "I" doesn't spawn, Two keyboards make navigation impossible, Arrow keys are glitchy. |
| 16:45.58 | tj13820 | but it is pretty smooth. |
| 16:46.01 | JeffM | have you tried #infobot, more people there may have info. |
| 16:46.08 | tj13820 | 3 people ~300Ms |
| 16:46.56 | tj13820 | Oh. one more, when you jump sometimes a second jump "happens" |
| 16:47.04 | JeffM | fun |
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| 16:57.14 | blast007 | weeee.... |
| 17:00.12 | CIA-36 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r18241 10/trunk/db/ (86 files in 7 dirs): |
| 17:00.12 | CIA-36 | BZFlag: Starting to convert the website to the Smarty Template Engine. |
| 17:00.12 | CIA-36 | BZFlag: Update the copyright to show the current year and Tim Riker as the copyright holder. |
| 17:02.54 | BulletCatcher | I, for one, welcome our new copyright overl... oh, forget it. |
| 17:03.01 | blast007 | hehe |
| 17:03.08 | blast007 | yeah, it was a bit behind the times.. |
| 17:03.13 | blast007 | was showing 2003 |
| 17:04.47 | tj13820 | JeffM: Observers can't move during "Roam" either |
| 17:05.00 | JeffM | tj13820, observers are overrated |
| 17:05.06 | blast007 | tj13820: in what version? |
| 17:05.21 | ruskie | sheesh... here to... /me is slowly getting sick of the "I, for one, welcome our new $foo overlords"... tom uch reading of el-reg... |
| 17:05.34 | tj13820 | 2.99 |
| 17:14.24 | Danji | ^^ |
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| 17:20.11 | pacman87 | ~pastebin |
| 17:20.12 | ibot | [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste |
| 17:20.23 | pacman87 | ~bzpastebin |
| 17:20.24 | ibot | [bzpastebin] http://pastebin.bzflag.bz or a place to put large chunks of text so as not to flood a channel |
| 17:20.57 | pacman87 | http://pastebin.bzflag.bz/m52e3233b |
| 17:21.28 | pacman87 | trying to compile 2.99 on linux |
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| 17:40.39 | JeffM | we don't support linux anymore |
| 17:40.50 | tj13820_afk | haha |
| 17:41.04 | JeffM | just windows and OSX |
| 17:41.11 | tj13820 | You aren't serious are you? |
| 17:41.34 | tj13820 | Because i just compiled in linux :P |
| 17:41.41 | JeffM | DTRemenak got the server run in wine, so those that are hosting can still run |
| 17:41.53 | tj13820 | hmm |
| 17:42.11 | tj13820 | *JeffM makes many hosts angry* |
| 17:42.21 | JeffM | they will live |
| 17:43.24 | tj13820 | that is very discouraging. I must say. |
| 17:43.39 | BulletCatcher | pacman87: The problem seems to be confined to doxygen. The quickest way to get past that is to do a "make -k". If there are no other errors then the rest of the system should be fine. |
| 17:44.37 | JeffM | or install windows ;) |
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| 17:44.44 | JeffM | was joking of course |
| 17:44.51 | brlcad | tj13820: even more discouraging that you're such a sucker |
| 17:45.24 | tj13820 | brlcad: Not really, since wine sucks/has a horrible GUI and BZFlag is an open source game |
| 17:45.30 | tj13820 | :P |
| 17:45.37 | tj13820 | i just love to argue |
| 17:45.42 | BulletCatcher | No you don't. |
| 17:45.49 | blast007 | lol.. |
| 17:45.57 | brlcad | a sucker for beleiving it |
| 17:46.01 | tj13820 | if my school had a debate team... |
| 17:46.03 | tj13820 | :) |
| 17:46.25 | JeffM | wine has a gui? |
| 17:46.30 | tj13820 | Mine does |
| 17:46.38 | blast007 | yeah, somewhat |
| 17:46.42 | tj13820 | it is pretty bad |
| 17:46.46 | blast007 | for configuring options and such |
| 17:46.56 | JeffM | server is a command line interface, it would not use the gui |
| 17:47.01 | JeffM | just the backend |
| 17:47.11 | tj13820 | the most complex feature is the option to install a wndows theme file |
| 17:47.20 | tj13820 | no xD i meant the Config GUI |
| 17:47.33 | JeffM | so you do that once, and are done |
| 17:47.36 | JeffM | whopty do |
| 17:47.40 | tj13820 | no... |
| 17:47.42 | tj13820 | not so much |
| 17:47.46 | JeffM | linux has a horibe gui for most things too ;) |
| 17:47.47 | tj13820 | it is a parasite |
| 17:48.00 | tj13820 | yeah... unless you make it yourself. |
| 17:48.20 | tj13820 | Something that the dev likes might be hated by thousands... e.x. Wine |
| 17:48.23 | tj13820 | (gui) |
| 17:48.48 | ruskie | that's not hard to figure out ;) |
| 17:48.53 | tj13820 | yeah |
| 17:49.02 | ruskie | is partial to gtk+2 guis |
| 17:49.03 | tj13820 | React OS :) |
| 17:49.21 | ruskie | and ncurses ones |
| 17:49.26 | tj13820 | Let the world rip of bill gates with his NT kernel and loose EULA |
| 17:49.47 | JeffM | dude... chill man |
| 17:49.55 | ruskie | :) |
| 17:50.22 | tj13820 | haha |
| 17:50.26 | tj13820 | have you tried it?? |
| 17:50.48 | tj13820 | React OS is almost a complete rip off of XP. Down to the kernel. |
| 17:50.55 | JeffM | so? |
| 17:50.56 | tj13820 | i praise them for it |
| 17:50.58 | tj13820 | :P |
| 17:51.27 | Winny | you praise people for stealing things? |
| 17:51.31 | tj13820 | noo |
| 17:51.47 | tj13820 | for completely RE-building XP |
| 17:51.53 | tj13820 | had to be quite an undertaking |
| 17:52.04 | JeffM | I dobut that's what they did, it's proalby linux with wine |
| 17:52.17 | ruskie | they do cooperate with wine |
| 17:52.33 | ruskie | it's most likely a linux+wine mix but in the kernel |
| 17:52.35 | tj13820 | ... |
| 17:52.42 | tj13820 | i don't think so, it has an NT kernel |
| 17:52.46 | ruskie | might even have some bsd stuff |
| 17:52.56 | tj13820 | hold on... |
| 17:53.00 | ruskie | tj13820, it probably has a nt-like kernel |
| 17:53.03 | Winny | uh, you can't legally take the NT kernel |
| 17:53.06 | tj13820 | no |
| 17:53.17 | tj13820 | but rebuilding it from scratch isn't illegal |
| 17:53.23 | JeffM | it does look like they wrote there own kernel |
| 17:53.26 | JeffM | or are trying to do so |
| 17:53.34 | JeffM | it is NOT the NT kernel |
| 17:53.41 | JeffM | but it is atempting to be compatable with it |
| 17:54.10 | tj13820 | http://www.reactos.org/media/screenshots/2007/ros_033_quake3_01.jpg |
| 17:54.12 | tj13820 | there |
| 17:54.22 | ruskie | to bad I already got my mom hooked on gnu+linux :) |
| 17:54.23 | JeffM | you can do that in wine |
| 17:54.33 | JeffM | installers arn't hard to run ;) |
| 17:54.44 | JeffM | but yes you are correct they are working on there own kernel |
| 17:54.46 | tj13820 | yes, i know. but this is an advanced version of wine, i guess |
| 17:54.48 | blast007 | hell, I can run Guild Wars in Wine, and not just the installer :P |
| 17:55.03 | tj13820 | hah |
| 17:55.03 | ruskie | hl2 as well and others :) |
| 17:55.09 | blast007 | yeah |
| 17:55.18 | tj13820 | http://www.reactos.org/media/screenshots/2007/ros_033_ut_3.png |
| 17:55.21 | tj13820 | ^that is nice |
| 17:55.26 | ruskie | I like what reactos is trying to achive though... |
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| 17:55.58 | ruskie | I still wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole simply because of the windows ugly interface(I so can't stand it anymore) |
| 17:56.11 | blast007 | tj13820: again, you can do that in Wine.. http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=90 |
| 17:56.17 | tj13820 | oh, i konw that |
| 17:56.40 | tj13820 | but this is pretty cool when you tihkn of what they are doing. Attempting full NT compatible kernel as open source |
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| 17:57.05 | ruskie | to bad chances are m$ might beat them there |
| 17:57.16 | blast007 | tj13820: does it also include the BSOD? |
| 17:57.22 | tj13820 | nope |
| 17:57.23 | blast007 | can't be fully compatible with it |
| 17:57.30 | tj13820 | i haven't gotten one |
| 17:57.30 | blast007 | without* |
| 17:57.35 | tj13820 | hah |
| 17:57.36 | blast007 | try harder |
| 17:57.38 | ruskie | since m$' idea of documentation was to dump the source code |
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| 17:58.04 | tj13820 | well, i think it is better without BSOD and just an error report/log |
| 17:58.11 | tj13820 | that you can actually use |
| 17:58.15 | ruskie | why not a proper syslog... |
| 17:58.32 | tj13820 | you get an error message, for now you submit to bugtracker |
| 17:58.39 | tj13820 | it has a system log i believe |
| 17:58.54 | ruskie | hopefully better than event viewer... |
| 17:58.59 | ruskie | that one is a joke... |
| 17:59.08 | tj13820 | hah |
| 17:59.46 | tj13820 | i think it logs stuff by date/ error type and prompts you to read critical errors and submit all information at the end of a month. (something like that) |
| 17:59.55 | tj13820 | so it is actually used by the Devs |
| 18:00.49 | tj13820 | i just hope no WGA gets impletmented :P |
| 18:01.02 | tj13820 | biggest POS ever |
| 18:01.14 | JeffM | it would never need to be |
| 18:01.20 | JeffM | since it would never get updates from MS |
| 18:02.00 | pacman87 | isValid() {return true;} |
| 18:02.18 | tj13820 | lol |
| 18:02.21 | JeffM | WGA checks your key on the server side to see if it can send you stuff |
| 18:02.25 | tj13820 | well if they do a good enough job... |
| 18:02.25 | tj13820 | xD |
| 18:02.29 | JeffM | so it has no bearing on that |
| 18:03.08 | tj13820 | it would be cool if you could install windows updates for things like MSXML and other technologies from the M$ site. |
| 18:03.33 | JeffM | what does this have to do with bzflag? |
| 18:04.19 | ruskie | bzflag could run on reactos? |
| 18:04.21 | tj13820 | oh |
| 18:04.23 | tj13820 | xD |
| 18:04.24 | tj13820 | yeah |
| 18:04.49 | tj13820 | was going to say that in the beginning... xD |
| 18:04.54 | JeffM | and how does that work with WGA? |
| 18:05.00 | tj13820 | hm? |
| 18:05.19 | ruskie | that I'll leave up to whoever brought WGA up... |
| 18:05.55 | tj13820 | i did after blast 007 brought up the BSOD xD |
| 18:06.25 | tj13820 | was just gonna say BZFlag runs in A new OS that is a close re-make of XP... |
| 18:06.37 | tj13820 | -sidetracked- |
| 18:07.08 | CIA-36 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r18242 10/trunk/db/ (help.php link.php templates/help.tpl templates/link.tpl): Convert the Help and Link To Us page over to Smarty. |
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| 20:44.39 | Lukstr | Erroneous: ping |
| 20:44.45 | Erroneous | pong |
| 20:44.58 | Lukstr | Cool |
| 20:45.06 | Lukstr | so, I've got a preliminary spirit parser working |
| 20:45.09 | Erroneous | ooh, ooh, are ya gonna commit something today!? :) |
| 20:45.18 | Erroneous | nifty |
| 20:45.20 | Lukstr | I hope so! but I can't figure out this problem |
| 20:45.39 | Lukstr | the spirit parser reads through the whole file appropriately, but I can't seem to get the semantic actions working |
| 20:46.29 | Lukstr | at least... consistantly |
| 20:46.39 | Erroneous | heh. what does it do? |
| 20:46.42 | Lukstr | well |
| 20:46.50 | Lukstr | say you capture something in a grammar rule |
| 20:47.36 | Lukstr | like... identifier = alpha_p >> *alnum_p; |
| 20:47.50 | Lukstr | which would capture something like "box" |
| 20:48.25 | Lukstr | well if you write: identifier = (alpha_p >> *alnum_p)[&do_something] |
| 20:48.32 | Erroneous | eh, I think I may not have communicated very well...what are the symptoms you are experiencing? :) |
| 20:48.41 | Lukstr | oh |
| 20:48.41 | Lukstr | well |
| 20:48.46 | Erroneous | i.e. not what should it do, but what DOES it do? :) |
| 20:48.46 | Lukstr | I can get it to work sometimes |
| 20:48.51 | Lukstr | throws amazing errors |
| 20:48.56 | Erroneous | cool |
| 20:48.57 | Lukstr | in a very spirit like fashion |
| 20:49.03 | Erroneous | compiler errors, or runtime? |
| 20:49.06 | Lukstr | compiler |
| 20:49.10 | Erroneous | ahh |
| 20:49.12 | Erroneous | fun |
| 20:49.22 | Erroneous | templatey goodness |
| 20:49.22 | Lukstr | spirit's fun, if you mess up it likes to throw you a few hundred lines of errors |
| 20:49.37 | Erroneous | the first one is usually the one that matters |
| 20:50.04 | Lukstr | let me show you :) |
| 20:50.09 | Erroneous | so is the problem with the rules, or with the functors you're catching the actions with? |
| 20:50.41 | Lukstr | functors |
| 20:51.03 | Lukstr | functors are new to me, and I followed some examples and got some rudimentry stuff working, but I can't seem to get it working completely |
| 20:51.39 | Erroneous | k |
| 20:51.55 | Lukstr | http://slexy.org/view/s21QLlyJ8H |
| 20:52.22 | Erroneous | goodness. |
| 20:53.04 | Constitution | hooray for readability |
| 20:54.02 | Lukstr | so this is what I've been dealing with for the past little while :P |
| 20:54.23 | Lukstr | it's mildly frustrating |
| 20:55.13 | Wyk3d | waits for C++ 0x to fix all that :) |
| 20:55.17 | Lukstr | well there's an actual error there, but ignore that :P |
| 20:55.39 | Lukstr | heh |
| 20:55.43 | Erroneous | hm? |
| 20:56.07 | Erroneous | looks to me like you are trying to call an object method without instantiating the object |
| 20:56.51 | Erroneous | love the 3 page long error message though |
| 20:57.09 | Lukstr | here, that was a bad one, let me give you an actual one |
| 20:58.17 | Lukstr | http://slexy.org/view/s21ioOsmJj |
| 20:58.45 | Lukstr | so much more readable than in a term :P |
| 20:59.43 | Erroneous | what's parser.cpp:248 or so? |
| 20:59.54 | Lukstr | main's return 0; |
| 20:59.57 | Lukstr | :) |
| 21:00.06 | Erroneous | heh |
| 21:01.13 | Erroneous | have you declared your operator() as const? |
| 21:02.09 | Lukstr | operator() const (IteratorT , ...) |
| 21:02.10 | Lukstr | ? |
| 21:02.22 | Erroneous | operator() (IteratorT, ...) const |
| 21:02.45 | Lukstr | hah, d'oh |
| 21:02.53 | Erroneous | basically you're telling it that that method can't alter the object it's a member of |
| 21:02.53 | Lukstr | for some reason the operator() brackets... |
| 21:02.57 | Lukstr | yeah I know :P |
| 21:03.05 | Lukstr | I need to get more sleep or stop programming at 5am |
| 21:03.06 | Erroneous | which is important since it's a member of a const object ;) |
| 21:05.00 | Erroneous | btw, there's no particular requirement that your branch be compilable at all times. if it would help to have someone else look at it to figure out what the errors mean, it's fine to check in broken code. |
| 21:05.01 | Lukstr | yay |
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| 21:05.20 | Lukstr | yeah the only thing is the code I'm working on doesn't really relate to bzflag yet |
| 21:05.34 | Lukstr | now that I have something working I'll start committing |
| 21:06.13 | Erroneous | if nothing else, svn is a really excellent backup solution ;) |
| 21:06.33 | Lukstr | well at this rate you'll be seeing something within the day |
| 21:07.05 | Erroneous | that would be good |
| 21:07.28 | Lukstr | oh |
| 21:07.33 | Lukstr | Conceptual problem |
| 21:07.53 | Lukstr | A class contains two methods and a functor |
| 21:08.17 | Lukstr | how do I get an instance of the class, which when calls method A, calls a functor which calls method B for that instance? |
| 21:09.17 | Erroneous | one of the functor's parameters would need to be a pointer to your class instance |
| 21:09.27 | Lukstr | hm |
| 21:12.20 | Erroneous | alternatively, I believe you can use the functor's c'tor to store a pointer to this in the functor's own structure, and access it as private data |
| 21:13.22 | Lukstr | oh, that sounds familiar |
| 21:14.06 | Lukstr | is learning much c++ :P |
| 21:14.49 | Erroneous | that's part of the fun of the soc :) |
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| 21:26.58 | Lukstr | functors are so magical |
| 21:27.07 | Erroneous | truth |
| 21:31.51 | Lukstr | interestingly enough, spirit parser grammar structures keep track of the "outside world" so to speak in a variable, however poorly documented :P |
| 21:32.02 | Lukstr | essentially only for passing to functors |
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| 22:20.17 | Lukstr | yay |
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