| 00:01.52 | *** join/#bzflag awilcox (n=Pongo@awos/maintainer/awilcox) |
| 00:01.57 | awilcox | peeks in |
| 00:02.04 | awilcox | I haven't been here in over a year. |
| 00:02.34 | spldart | woah |
| 00:02.48 | awilcox | spldart! I remember you. |
| 00:03.06 | spldart | I hadn't realized that it had been a year 8-0 |
| 00:03.13 | awilcox | yup |
| 00:03.14 | awilcox | so |
| 00:03.34 | awilcox | lots of fun things have happened, but right now, I have a question for y'all. |
| 00:03.55 | awilcox | I'm trying to breathe new life into my desktop. it has a pathetic, pitiful 82845G integrated graphics. |
| 00:04.04 | spldart | hang long enough for some of the old timers to say high too |
| 00:04.06 | awilcox | I mean, it quite literally hard-locks if I try and do directX on it. |
| 00:04.16 | JeffM | 845's are pretty old |
| 00:04.19 | awilcox | it only has a PCI slot. |
| 00:04.27 | JeffM | PCI or PCI-E? |
| 00:04.37 | awilcox | PCI as in the sucky 32-bit slot that was made for network cards. |
| 00:04.54 | JeffM | can it and get a newermobo |
| 00:05.00 | JeffM | anything else is a waste of money |
| 00:05.05 | awilcox | now. I don't expect to get a lot of performance out of it, but it's just a desktop. |
| 00:05.08 | awilcox | I mean |
| 00:05.17 | awilcox | I might play bzflag on it, but that's the extent of games. |
| 00:05.38 | spldart | Pre AGP is getting pretty far outta bzflag potential |
| 00:05.52 | awilcox | it's a p4/2.66 with 2GB of DDR 400, and it gets a 4 on the windows experience index except for graphics. I think it's worth saving. |
| 00:05.58 | JeffM | the mobo can't have that much life left in it |
| 00:06.02 | awilcox | I don't even want aero/compiz/any fancy things. |
| 00:06.12 | spldart | oh |
| 00:06.34 | JeffM | getting a card will be harder |
| 00:06.58 | JeffM | you'll spend close to 50$ on a card that does better then the onboard |
| 00:07.18 | awilcox | newegg has a 6200 for 38$. my question was will this work for my needs? |
| 00:07.32 | JeffM | sure |
| 00:07.33 | awilcox | 38$ for a new gfx card vs. 500$+ for a new workstation. |
| 00:07.37 | spldart | I was usi8ng a 6200 pre my latest purchase |
| 00:07.46 | JeffM | you don't need a new workstation, you need a better motherboard |
| 00:07.47 | JeffM | but yeah |
| 00:07.52 | JeffM | 6200's are fine |
| 00:07.56 | JeffM | I used to run 2 of em |
| 00:07.57 | spldart | Medium settings and the 6200 is playable |
| 00:08.11 | spldart | 5200 fx was too |
| 00:08.48 | awilcox | DP43TF mobo = 99$ + 180$ for a CPU + close to 100$ for a PSU + trying to fit it in a minitower (or spending another 70$ for a good case) |
| 00:09.04 | awilcox | that's ~470$ |
| 00:09.08 | spldart | well |
| 00:09.30 | spldart | I got a rosewill case and psu for 80 and it's holding up for a quad core. |
| 00:09.30 | JeffM | what socket is the CPU? |
| 00:09.36 | awilcox | JeffM: 478 |
| 00:09.38 | JeffM | ahh |
| 00:09.39 | JeffM | yeah |
| 00:10.01 | JeffM | not much else you can do with it |
| 00:10.31 | awilcox | so the 6200 would work to give it a few more years? like I said, this isn't my gaming rig |
| 00:10.40 | spldart | Few more? meh |
| 00:10.47 | awilcox | my gaming rig is a core2 wolfdale 3.0 with 2GB of DDR3 and a 9800GT :P |
| 00:10.48 | spldart | but one more? maybe soso |
| 00:10.51 | JeffM | what card does newegg have for 38$? |
| 00:11.05 | JeffM | lowst I see in a 6200 PCI is 46$ |
| 00:11.30 | spldart | No AGP slot is still 8-0 'ing me |
| 00:11.45 | JeffM | spldart: it was common on low end machines |
| 00:11.46 | awilcox | hm it is 46$ O_O |
| 00:11.50 | JeffM | basline HPs, etc.. |
| 00:11.51 | awilcox | I was in froogle. it said 38$ |
| 00:11.55 | *** join/#bzflag a_temp_dist (n=temp_dis@bzflag/serverop/TemporalDistraction) |
| 00:12.01 | JeffM | awilcox: welcome to the lies of the interwebs ;) |
| 00:12.05 | JeffM | you'll spend close to 50 |
| 00:12.11 | awilcox | it's a dell dimension 2400 aka pos beater I got secondhand a few years back :P |
| 00:12.12 | JeffM | and when the mobo dies, that's 50$ wasted |
| 00:12.37 | awilcox | why would the mobo die? |
| 00:12.44 | JeffM | all things die |
| 00:12.50 | awilcox | good grief it was manufactured in 2004 |
| 00:12.51 | JeffM | circle of life :) |
| 00:12.57 | JeffM | 5 years ago |
| 00:13.01 | awilcox | my 82810 lasted close to 12 years :P |
| 00:13.02 | spldart | thinks of the sun and crinkges |
| 00:13.10 | JeffM | that was then |
| 00:13.11 | JeffM | this is now |
| 00:13.34 | JeffM | if you are getting errors with the graphics chip on it now, that is an indication of problems |
| 00:13.47 | JeffM | since it's using the northbridge for video, that means your northbridge has problems |
| 00:13.48 | awilcox | it's called documented vista incompatibility. |
| 00:13.52 | JeffM | ahh |
| 00:14.04 | JeffM | vista on a p4 with 2 gigs, good lord why? |
| 00:14.09 | spldart | If you squeeze more years out of a mobo than me then you know you have gotten your dollars worth too. |
| 00:14.39 | awilcox | JeffM: visual studio 2008, office 2007, and the RDP6 client with NLA |
| 00:14.53 | awilcox | the prior two will run on xp (albeit slowly) |
| 00:14.55 | awilcox | the last won't |
| 00:14.55 | JeffM | the first 2 run under XP just fine |
| 00:14.58 | JeffM | slowly? |
| 00:15.02 | JeffM | VC runs the same on all |
| 00:15.08 | awilcox | office. |
| 00:15.14 | JeffM | run it at work on XP just fine |
| 00:15.19 | awilcox | office 2007 is slower on xp than vista for some reason. |
| 00:15.57 | awilcox | besides it doesn't have the RDP client with NLA (which is really, really retarded of MS) |
| 00:16.36 | awilcox | JeffM: btw, you'll be happy to note that the xeon server is happily being a server now. |
| 00:16.47 | JeffM | fun |
| 00:16.56 | awilcox | you got on my case for trying to run bzflag on it :P |
| 00:16.56 | awilcox | well |
| 00:17.11 | awilcox | I gave up, and it's just a server and nothing more now, running server 2k8 x64 |
| 00:17.13 | spldart | It's not a server... it's a workstation ;-p |
| 00:17.33 | JeffM | I got on your case for complaining about problems with an inapropriate system for your tasks, and not really understanding what you were doing ;) |
| 00:17.37 | awilcox | and runs three other server workloads in hyper-v without slowingdown |
| 00:18.04 | awilcox | JeffM: well basically, I grew up ;) |
| 00:18.16 | JeffM | as all kids are wont to do ;) |
| 00:18.23 | JeffM | happens to everyone |
| 00:18.35 | *** join/#bzflag T-80 (n=Andrew@77.73.137.3) |
| 00:18.37 | awilcox | I suppose I don't need to get the PCI card. |
| 00:18.49 | JeffM | it's up to you |
| 00:18.52 | awilcox | the workaround per MS is to disable directX acceleration |
| 00:18.59 | spldart | I retract my 6200 comments. |
| 00:19.03 | spldart | I was talking agp |
| 00:19.04 | JeffM | if you don't see yourself upgrading in a long while, 50$ may be worth it |
| 00:19.16 | JeffM | spldart: pci is about the same |
| 00:19.17 | awilcox | I don't see myself upgrading a windows desktop until this dies |
| 00:19.19 | spldart | I can only imagine what restriction a pci 32 would have on a 6200 |
| 00:19.26 | spldart | I'm not so sure.... |
| 00:19.32 | JeffM | the 6200 is still slow enough to be feed by the PCI |
| 00:19.40 | JeffM | it's when you get faster then that |
| 00:19.56 | spldart | 8x agp and pci are close enough for a 6200? |
| 00:20.10 | awilcox | I've got the wolfdale for a gaming rig, and my next purchase will be a mac of some kind (thinking either high-level mini or baseline iMac) |
| 00:20.12 | tj13820 | has anyone realised how the slightest bit of lag causes anyone to suspect cheating these days? |
| 00:20.22 | spldart | hehe |
| 00:20.28 | tj13820 | *headdesk* |
| 00:20.33 | JeffM | tj13820: that's not new |
| 00:20.37 | JeffM | bzflag is a lan game |
| 00:20.45 | awilcox | so as a _desktop_, no, I don't see myself upgrading for a while |
| 00:20.49 | tj13820 | i was playing on some new tower map, and i was playing with my dual monitors which caused a bit of lag... |
| 00:21.01 | JeffM | awilcox: if the mobo does die, what will you do, just replace the mobo? |
| 00:21.16 | me1 | tj13820, I noticed that some people say people are cheaters because they don't like them, aswell :P |
| 00:21.23 | awilcox | JeffM: depends. a few of my friends have 478s they'd probably give me by then |
| 00:21.27 | tj13820 | hehe yeah. Noticed that one too. |
| 00:21.37 | spldart | He'll have to start from scratch ground up like I did. hehe |
| 00:21.55 | JeffM | awilcox: so you'd try to replace it, then the card may not be a bad investement, 50$ for year or so of performance... |
| 00:22.04 | tj13820 | Dual monitors at 3200x900 (1600x900 native x2) really kicks butt |
| 00:22.07 | spldart | I have enough k7 mobo's and bartons/thorobreds to last a while over here as well so I understand. |
| 00:22.09 | awilcox | one of my friends is buying a quad next month, and then his 478 goes to the parts pile. |
| 00:22.22 | awilcox | JeffM: yeah. |
| 00:22.48 | awilcox | I also have an untested 478 that I found in the trash heap that has a p4/2.4 in it too |
| 00:22.55 | spldart | I guess another factor is the potential release of 2.99. |
| 00:22.58 | awilcox | so that (may) work too. |
| 00:23.00 | JeffM | P4's are such slow CPUs |
| 00:23.03 | awilcox | I know |
| 00:23.07 | awilcox | networst is a dog :P |
| 00:23.17 | spldart | my 6200 was not very good on 2.99. faster on release. |
| 00:23.18 | tj13820 | uses a P4 Prescott core (Firefly) |
| 00:23.24 | JeffM | I'm sorry tj13820 |
| 00:23.27 | tj13820 | hehe |
| 00:23.28 | JeffM | my condolences |
| 00:23.33 | awilcox | it's better than a williamette |
| 00:23.36 | awilcox | ugh, lappy has that |
| 00:23.38 | tj13820 | 2.8 isn't too bad, but it heats my house |
| 00:24.04 | JeffM | hugs his q600 |
| 00:24.07 | JeffM | 6600 even |
| 00:24.10 | tj13820 | AGP with an HIS Radeon 3850 IceQ Turbo 3 and you'll just about get spontaneous combustion O_O |
| 00:24.48 | tj13820 | is i7 reliable yet? or should i wait for revision 2/3 |
| 00:24.49 | *** join/#bzflag brad` (n=brad@chat.moooo.org) |
| 00:25.02 | JeffM | depends on what you are doing |
| 00:25.12 | JeffM | they arn't the "Bang/buck" winners |
| 00:25.14 | awilcox | hugs his E5405 and E8400 |
| 00:25.22 | tj13820 | video editing, photoshop, compiling, gaming |
| 00:25.25 | JeffM | if I was going to buy a new system right now I'd look at a phenom II |
| 00:25.33 | tj13820 | i was looking at that too |
| 00:25.40 | tj13820 | and an ASROCK Mobo |
| 00:25.46 | JeffM | eww |
| 00:25.54 | tj13820 | it has AGP support |
| 00:25.57 | tj13820 | :P |
| 00:25.57 | JeffM | so |
| 00:26.00 | awilcox | phenom is better than an i7 theoretically. but I've never had an AMD board last more than a year :p |
| 00:26.09 | tj13820 | ew |
| 00:26.10 | JeffM | awilcox: phenom II is, not phenom |
| 00:26.11 | awilcox | tj13820: look at gigabyte or asus. |
| 00:26.18 | spldart | hehe |
| 00:26.19 | tj13820 | i've had both. both died |
| 00:26.26 | JeffM | the ph1's suck big time |
| 00:26.34 | tj13820 | my asus netbook bit the dust too |
| 00:26.35 | spldart | I've had dozens of amd boards last years and years hehe |
| 00:26.41 | JeffM | O |
| 00:26.45 | tj13820 | so i'm getting an MSI Wind |
| 00:26.49 | JeffM | I've had good luck with gigabyte latey |
| 00:26.51 | awilcox | spldart: you can kiss my 8088 :P |
| 00:26.53 | JeffM | but MSI is also good |
| 00:26.56 | spldart | LOLz |
| 00:26.57 | tj13820 | Gigabyte looks good |
| 00:27.06 | spldart | msi. giga, asus for me |
| 00:27.15 | tj13820 | i'm saving about $800 for a new Mobo/GPU/Ram/Proc this summer |
| 00:27.28 | JeffM | that won't get you a i7 |
| 00:27.30 | awilcox | asus works well in everything I have that isn't an intel mobo |
| 00:27.38 | JeffM | it'll get you a decent core2 quad tho |
| 00:27.53 | awilcox | tj13820: go more for 1800$. i7 + DDR3 + 9800GT will run you a lot more than 800$ |
| 00:28.00 | awilcox | DDR3 is buggered expensive =/ |
| 00:28.10 | JeffM | and pointless for most uses |
| 00:28.16 | awilcox | yeah |
| 00:28.17 | tj13820 | i already have a Thermal Take (Black Widow) 850 Watt PSU, tons of BLUE LED system fans (Brushless High performance), and all the PCI crap |
| 00:28.22 | JeffM | 9800GT, rather slow machine |
| 00:28.23 | tj13820 | well my P4 isn't too bad |
| 00:28.31 | spldart | jeeez. I spent a touch more than 400 for this and reused my optical and Hdd's |
| 00:28.38 | tj13820 | yeah |
| 00:28.51 | JeffM | spldart: cus you went cheap and got a ph1 ;) |
| 00:28.57 | tj13820 | i have two WD Velociraptors in raid 1 |
| 00:29.01 | spldart | At least it was a xx50 |
| 00:29.04 | awilcox | spldart: my gaming rig was around 500. wolfdale 3.0, 2 gigs of DDR2, 9800GT, and a 19" flat-panel to replace an aging old 19" CRT |
| 00:29.10 | JeffM | spldart: that's not saying much |
| 00:29.13 | awilcox | yes, 500$ includes the 19" flat panel. |
| 00:29.23 | JeffM | 19, why so small |
| 00:29.26 | spldart | crud... dind't include my monitor |
| 00:29.27 | JeffM | 23 wide for 180$ |
| 00:29.30 | spldart | 40" over a grand |
| 00:29.31 | awilcox | JeffM: cramped desk. |
| 00:29.39 | tj13820 | i got a 20" for $130 but i got two |
| 00:29.45 | awilcox | the 19" barely fits. :p |
| 00:29.48 | tj13820 | i like dual monitor |
| 00:29.49 | tj13820 | :P |
| 00:29.56 | JeffM | get a bigger desk |
| 00:29.57 | awilcox | tj13820: aaaaagh. |
| 00:30.08 | awilcox | JeffM: 2 br apartment. this is the biggest desk that will fit. |
| 00:30.12 | tj13820 | awilcox: thats what they make wallmouts for :P |
| 00:30.14 | awilcox | a very small 2 br apartement. |
| 00:30.16 | JeffM | awilcox: doubtfull |
| 00:30.17 | spldart | Is that like getting a mouse pad extension? ;-) |
| 00:30.17 | awilcox | 800 sq ft. |
| 00:30.28 | spldart | hehe |
| 00:30.33 | spldart | I've lived in smaller |
| 00:30.33 | JeffM | flat panels take little desk space |
| 00:30.37 | spldart | Studio |
| 00:30.52 | tj13820 | i live in a bedroom at my parents house :X |
| 00:31.13 | spldart | 280 sqr ft? |
| 00:31.15 | awilcox | JeffM: share it with a desktop flatbed scanner, deskjet printer, 4-ch speakers, two towers, and a CD rack. |
| 00:31.15 | spldart | ;) |
| 00:31.48 | JeffM | towers on floor, cds are dead, printer and scaner on a rack on the floor |
| 00:31.54 | JeffM | speakers on the wall |
| 00:31.56 | JeffM | done deal |
| 00:32.10 | awilcox | no wall. behind this desk is a huge-butt window. |
| 00:32.26 | awilcox | however |
| 00:32.28 | JeffM | why you need a window for your but I don't know, but I'm sure you can figure something out |
| 00:32.37 | awilcox | thought about putting the scanner on a rack. |
| 00:32.53 | awilcox | would free just enough space for another 19" if I shuffled the speakers around. |
| 00:34.57 | JeffM | yay, narcotics kicking in.. time to write code.... |
| 00:35.37 | awilcox | Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii, won't worry my life away! |
| 00:35.51 | awilcox | sings The Remedy by Jason Mraz |
| 00:40.53 | spldart | is jelous of the narcotics... did some damage to my right knee and the "Joint MD" and "perscreption dosages of ibuprofen" aren't quite cutting it. |
| 00:43.39 | awilcox | if you gots the poison, I gots the remedy. |
| 00:43.41 | awilcox | and heh. |
| 00:43.55 | awilcox | hands spldart some stronger painkillers. like tylenol. |
| 00:44.14 | spldart | Tylenol doesn't do anything for me ;) |
| 00:44.16 | spldart | errr |
| 00:44.20 | spldart | :( |
| 00:44.23 | spldart | That's what I meant |
| 00:44.24 | spldart | yeah |
| 00:44.41 | awilcox | ahh. |
| 00:44.47 | awilcox | it works for me with headaches. |
| 00:45.00 | awilcox | however luckily I haven't damaged my knees lately :P |
| 00:45.14 | spldart | Back and knee lately for me |
| 00:45.33 | awilcox | back. yes. |
| 00:45.38 | awilcox | I had a lot of back pain. |
| 00:45.57 | awilcox | last week, from Friday the 6th to Saturday the 14th, involved quite literally over 120 hours of work |
| 00:46.03 | awilcox | maybe 3-4 hours of sleep a night |
| 00:46.09 | awilcox | over 20 hours on the phone with microsoft |
| 00:46.15 | awilcox | and a lot of back pain. |
| 00:46.25 | spldart | I'm still not used to numbers like 1430 fps in virtualdub 8-0 |
| 00:52.30 | MindstormsKid | only gets 57 fps in bzflag :( |
| 00:52.57 | spldart | I only get, maybe, 100-110, atm |
| 01:43.02 | spldart | Hrmmmmm..... "Diamond AIWHD3650 Radeon HD 3650 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready All-in-Wonder" |
| 01:46.59 | awilcox | spldart: ewwwww ATi :P |
| 01:47.05 | awilcox | nvidia's drivers suck |
| 01:47.08 | awilcox | but ATI's cards suck |
| 01:47.16 | awilcox | and cards are more important than drivers imo. |
| 01:47.36 | JeffM | awilcox: not with the 4000 series |
| 01:47.49 | JeffM | I have a 4850 and I am VERY happy with it |
| 01:47.56 | awilcox | well, the 4000 series maybe. |
| 01:47.58 | awilcox | heh |
| 01:48.07 | JeffM | they've been out for a year |
| 01:48.11 | awilcox | my first AIW was installed in a compaq 4850. |
| 01:48.18 | JeffM | that was the past |
| 01:48.20 | awilcox | yeah, |
| 01:48.23 | awilcox | it rocked. |
| 01:48.24 | JeffM | the current nvidia chipsets are "meh" |
| 01:48.57 | JeffM | and actualy the drivers are more important than the card |
| 01:49.07 | JeffM | ATI's problems in the past have been mostly driver related |
| 01:49.12 | *** join/#bzflag dreeves_ (n=IceChat7@67.130.253.14) |
| 01:49.13 | awilcox | JeffM: I've been meaning to ask you something too. |
| 01:49.13 | spldart | My first aiw was a 7500 8 + years ago. |
| 01:49.17 | spldart | I miss those days |
| 01:49.24 | spldart | tv and bzflag on same machine |
| 01:49.36 | awilcox | spldart: my first aiw was a mach64 in 1997. |
| 01:49.44 | awilcox | beats you :P |
| 01:50.01 | spldart | kinda |
| 01:50.04 | spldart | I have one of those cards |
| 01:50.08 | awilcox | JeffM: anyway, what does it mean when there's a PCI-e "unrecoverable bus error"? |
| 01:50.16 | spldart | but inherited it after the new purchase of athe 7500 |
| 01:50.22 | JeffM | awilcox: badness |
| 01:50.33 | awilcox | JeffM: got that error two months ago on my xeon server |
| 01:50.43 | awilcox | it was under pretty heavy load |
| 01:50.48 | JeffM | some device threw an error |
| 01:50.53 | awilcox | it was the gfx card |
| 01:51.01 | awilcox | hm |
| 01:51.04 | JeffM | did it happen again? |
| 01:51.06 | awilcox | gets the exact error |
| 01:51.08 | spldart | nvidia drivers suck?!?!?! I've had the experience that on ATI's best day their drivers still wish they were Nvidia's |
| 01:51.25 | JeffM | spldart: in the past year they have taken a swap |
| 01:51.30 | JeffM | on windows at least |
| 01:51.30 | spldart | oh wow |
| 01:51.39 | JeffM | they had a rash of unstable drivers with some of the newer cards |
| 01:51.46 | JeffM | it flops back and forth |
| 01:51.46 | *** part/#bzflag dreeves_ (n=IceChat7@67.130.253.14) |
| 01:51.52 | awilcox | 15-Feb-2009 22:19 CRITICAL assertion event: PCIe Link4 reports uncorrectable bus error. Critical Interrupt |
| 01:51.56 | JeffM | but yes, they have had general more stable drivers for longer. |
| 01:52.05 | spldart | I just tried to install ati's latest binaries for my 3200 on linux and things went tango uniform for me... figured it was status quo |
| 01:52.06 | JeffM | awilcox: something threw a fatal interupt |
| 01:52.10 | awilcox | JeffM: machine insta-gibbed after that |
| 01:52.18 | JeffM | spldart: linux is a different story |
| 01:52.19 | awilcox | link4 == NVIDIA GeForce 8600GTS |
| 01:52.22 | spldart | ah |
| 01:52.28 | JeffM | awilcox: then your bios probably jacked |
| 01:53.00 | awilcox | it happened once before |
| 01:53.07 | awilcox | when I tried to open bzflag (before it was a server) |
| 01:53.10 | JeffM | the system reboot after that? |
| 01:53.16 | awilcox | 18-Oct-2008 03:12 CRITICAL assertion event: Critical Interrupt sensor 5 reports PCI SERR |
| 01:53.27 | awilcox | JeffM: it STOP errored |
| 01:53.28 | spldart | iz this the old mobo that was spoken of earlier? |
| 01:53.38 | awilcox | spldart: no, this is the quad xeon that is a server. |
| 01:53.42 | spldart | oh |
| 01:53.43 | spldart | n/m |
| 01:53.47 | JeffM | awilcox: when you restarted, did it work ok? |
| 01:53.50 | awilcox | JeffM: yes |
| 01:54.01 | awilcox | but I just...was wondering...what the heck any of this meant. |
| 01:54.02 | JeffM | then something just threw a fatal error, it can happen |
| 01:54.16 | awilcox | as an OS developer I know what it _means_ so-to-speak |
| 01:54.18 | JeffM | it meant something threw up it's hands and stoped the buss |
| 01:54.21 | awilcox | but I don't know what could trigger it |
| 01:54.28 | JeffM | lots of things |
| 01:54.33 | JeffM | driver bugs |
| 01:54.34 | JeffM | heat |
| 01:54.39 | JeffM | incomatabilitys |
| 01:54.44 | awilcox | someone suggested it was running hot. rivatuner reports 58C |
| 01:54.44 | *** join/#bzflag temp_dist (n=temp_dis@bzflag/serverop/TemporalDistraction) |
| 01:54.44 | JeffM | bad star alignmnet |
| 01:54.47 | JeffM | cosmic rays |
| 01:55.08 | awilcox | er, reported. |
| 01:55.09 | JeffM | crap happens |
| 01:55.11 | spldart | Proximity to friday the 13th |
| 01:55.27 | awilcox | spldart: heh. |
| 01:55.33 | spldart | sry |
| 01:58.42 | JeffM | oh and you all with your fancy ATI AIW cards can suck it, NV1, 1995 ;) |
| 02:00.52 | awilcox | ;) |
| 02:01.12 | awilcox | JeffM: that's nothing, I still have my cirrus logic 1MB card. |
| 02:01.15 | awilcox | 1993! |
| 02:01.29 | awilcox | once-upon-a-time when 486s ruled the land, it owned :P |
| 02:01.30 | JeffM | awilcox: but does that have a 3d accelerator? |
| 02:01.42 | awilcox | my S3 Trio64V+ does. |
| 02:02.04 | awilcox | it's so amazing that I have the real cards of what most emulators use now. |
| 02:02.28 | JeffM | cus if you want just raw video card I can use terms like nubus and VLB |
| 02:02.32 | awilcox | qemu emulates the exact CL card I have down to the revision. virtual PC emulates a Trio64V+. |
| 02:02.40 | awilcox | JeffM: ohhhhhhhh nooooooooo |
| 02:02.46 | awilcox | not VESA Local Bus! |
| 02:03.06 | awilcox | nubus is one thing, but *VLB*?! no! |
| 02:03.25 | JeffM | it was better then ISA |
| 02:03.50 | awilcox | okay good point. |
| 02:03.53 | spldart | Hrm.. maybe I should go with the 'PM' model instead. |
| 02:04.11 | awilcox | I've never seen ISA graphics cards though. |
| 02:04.11 | spldart | checks shelf |
| 02:04.40 | JeffM | awilcox: what year were you born? |
| 02:04.46 | Evilroneous | heh, VLB was not better than ISA. faster, yes...not better. |
| 02:04.52 | awilcox | I prefer not to say over irc, but I'm in college :p |
| 02:05.07 | JeffM | Evilroneous: go home |
| 02:05.21 | JeffM | awilcox: so what like 89? 90? |
| 02:05.23 | JeffM | 91? |
| 02:05.26 | awilcox | yes. |
| 02:05.27 | awilcox | one of those |
| 02:05.27 | awilcox | :P |
| 02:05.32 | Evilroneous | still has work to do! |
| 02:05.38 | JeffM | computers did exist before you were boorn ;) |
| 02:05.38 | awilcox | I still remember my 486 vividly though. |
| 02:05.38 | spldart | I'm not goin in my garage... have an isa card in there.. but got a pci S3 Virge/DX on my lap right now. |
| 02:05.47 | Evilroneous | hm, and my name is remarkably villainous today |
| 02:05.49 | JeffM | spldart: recyle it |
| 02:05.55 | awilcox | JeffM: I've got the 8088 to prove it :P |
| 02:06.02 | awilcox | Evilroneous: yes it is :p |
| 02:06.15 | awilcox | I've still never seen an ISA graphics card before. |
| 02:06.15 | trepan | ah, preferred the 'pasta' version ;-) |
| 02:06.32 | awilcox | spldart: it must be slow as all get out. |
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| 02:06.50 | spldart | Recycle it... I still have a 586 rig in a socket 5 at work that just hides away and downloads torrents 24/7 on a 2.6.26 kernel.. irrc |
| 02:06.52 | Constitution | hi quol |
| 02:06.53 | spldart | iirc |
| 02:06.59 | Quol | hey Constitution |
| 02:07.01 | Quol | hey al |
| 02:07.04 | Quol | l |
| 02:07.07 | awilcox | hi Quol. |
| 02:07.25 | Erroneous | spldart: your torrents would go faster with a faster CPU |
| 02:07.25 | awilcox | spldart: I still have my 486, but the hdd died ;( still use it for testing AWOS builds though. |
| 02:07.34 | spldart | heh |
| 02:07.36 | spldart | hrm |
| 02:07.43 | spldart | perhaps I should take a look |
| 02:07.59 | awilcox | Pentium IIs are still useable for basic web browsing/email/word processing. |
| 02:08.08 | awilcox | just DO NOT INSTALL FLASH on any computer older than a p4. |
| 02:08.21 | awilcox | I learned my lesson the hard way. oh, the p3. she died so slowly. |
| 02:09.37 | JeffM | Erroneous: when you add a refrence to something in C# does it store a hard path to that? or can you do stuff like include/lib dirs like C++ does? |
| 02:10.10 | Erroneous | neither, it's a hash system...you're referencing a particular version of a particular assembly |
| 02:10.30 | Erroneous | it has a search path for them, app dir first, then SxS installs |
| 02:10.36 | JeffM | ahh |
| 02:10.43 | awilcox | JeffM: as long as the assembly is installed on the system it'll work. it'll complain if so much as the build date is different though. |
| 02:10.46 | JeffM | what about when building? |
| 02:10.56 | JeffM | axiom dosn't seem to have an "install" |
| 02:11.03 | Erroneous | same thing when building |
| 02:11.09 | JeffM | so I'm wondering how to get it to find the debug and release dirs |
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| 02:12.28 | JeffM | ahh, there are reference paths in the project |
| 02:12.38 | JeffM | maybe I can do environs there to make it easy |
| 02:13.39 | Erroneous | store them in a project-relative place (subdir of your solution dir) and the references will be properly relative |
| 02:14.07 | Constitution | Erroneous always knows the answer to everything :) |
| 02:14.27 | JeffM | Erroneous: seems odd for a third party lib |
| 02:14.28 | awilcox | Hey there Constitution. |
| 02:14.36 | awilcox | haven't seen you in quite a while. |
| 02:14.37 | Constitution | heya awilcox, long time no see |
| 02:14.50 | awilcox | how goes your city map? |
| 02:14.55 | Erroneous | JeffM: not really, kinda what we do with src/other |
| 02:15.30 | Constitution | awilcox: I think that was Epyon's work mostly, but in any case it's rather defunct :P |
| 02:15.34 | Erroneous | if it's a big thing you can install the assembly in question system-wide. VS will build assembly installers in no time flat. |
| 02:15.56 | spldart | I was gonna take a pic... but can't find it. I found an isa audio, nic and fm radio card but can't find my isa video card. |
| 02:16.59 | JeffM | Erroneous: true |
| 02:17.11 | JeffM | guess I could just check in there bin package |
| 02:17.50 | JeffM | Constitution: no it's not, it's done, just noone uses it ;) |
| 02:17.53 | Erroneous | or check in their sources and build the assembly during your own build process |
| 02:18.09 | Erroneous | if you have an aversion to putting bins in source control |
| 02:18.26 | JeffM | Erroneous: are you a system admin at work? |
| 02:18.31 | JeffM | as in for the domain? |
| 02:18.33 | Erroneous | not anymore |
| 02:18.38 | JeffM | damn |
| 02:18.41 | Erroneous | got SOXified |
| 02:18.50 | JeffM | I forgot to add files to svn before he left |
| 02:19.17 | awilcox | Erroneous: you poor soul, you're a SOX person now? |
| 02:19.37 | awilcox | spldart: wow, fm radio card. been forever since I've seen me some of that action :p |
| 02:19.50 | JeffM | awilcox: sorbanes oxley act. |
| 02:20.01 | awilcox | sarbanes-oxley* |
| 02:20.04 | Erroneous | nope, just not in the right department to retain admin for SOX compliance |
| 02:20.28 | spldart | have a kworld tv tuner card now that I used to use on xp that has the fm radio thing too.... unfortunately no vista support... along with my wireless cards as well. |
| 02:20.33 | awilcox | passed in 2002 or 2003, to ensure that public-sector companies do not fudge around with their books by doing company-wide monitoring and auditing |
| 02:20.39 | awilcox | a PITA for all IT admins |
| 02:20.40 | awilcox | and yes |
| 02:20.43 | awilcox | I know exactly what it is :p |
| 02:20.58 | JeffM | we are now owned by a publicly traded company |
| 02:21.16 | awilcox | JeffM: we=bzflag? or we=you and Erroneous? |
| 02:21.25 | JeffM | the latter |
| 02:21.30 | awilcox | ah. |
| 02:21.31 | JeffM | hence my inital "at work" part |
| 02:23.00 | awilcox | wow. I now understand where solaris got the moniker "slowlaris". |
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| 02:23.31 | awilcox | a dual-core box with 2GB RAM should never take 10 minutes to boot. |
| 02:24.50 | Erroneous | when you never have to reboot, boot times don't matter very much |
| 02:24.56 | spldart | 8-0 |
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| 02:25.39 | spldart | huh... i guess comcast is having issues |
| 02:26.37 | awilcox | spldart: there was a county-wide outage last night |
| 02:26.40 | awilcox | here |
| 02:26.44 | spldart | wow |
| 02:26.46 | awilcox | for comcrap. luckily I have AT&T now |
| 02:26.51 | awilcox | no more comcrap for me :P |
| 02:27.09 | spldart | AT&T huh... Are they decent.. hows the speed? |
| 02:27.27 | spldart | I'm wondering if I should reconsider dsl |
| 02:27.48 | spldart | I had 3 broadbands for a little while last summer |
| 02:28.04 | awilcox | love them |
| 02:28.07 | spldart | 2 comcast and one windstream |
| 02:28.15 | awilcox | paying for a 6Mbps line, getting 6.6Mbps consistently |
| 02:28.16 | spldart | errr |
| 02:28.17 | Erroneous | fiber or bust! |
| 02:28.21 | spldart | 2 com and one swb |
| 02:28.24 | spldart | hehe |
| 02:28.32 | spldart | fiber = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
| 02:28.33 | awilcox | Erroneous: there is no fibre available here =( |
| 02:28.47 | awilcox | I'd do that in a new york minute, but it isn't available |
| 02:28.53 | Erroneous | yay for 18 down/5 up :) |
| 02:29.03 | spldart | for how much money though? |
| 02:29.09 | Erroneous | $60/mo |
| 02:29.14 | spldart | Really?!?! |
| 02:29.18 | awilcox | whoa @_@ |
| 02:29.19 | spldart | I need to check that again |
| 02:29.25 | awilcox | that's how much AT&T is for 6mbps |
| 02:29.28 | spldart | maybe they have come down here |
| 02:29.38 | awilcox | Erroneous: verizon, or someone else? |
| 02:29.42 | Erroneous | AT&T |
| 02:29.47 | awilcox | U-Verse? :( |
| 02:29.50 | Erroneous | yup |
| 02:29.55 | awilcox | dangit all |
| 02:30.02 | spldart | I get 6 down on comcrap, 1.5 down on windstream/sugar land |
| 02:30.02 | awilcox | they offer that in indy, but not here yet |
| 02:30.06 | Erroneous | the trick is to sign up, then cancel the TV |
| 02:30.08 | awilcox | I'd love to move to indy soon :P |
| 02:30.17 | Erroneous | they'll continue running internet, at the reduced rate |
| 02:30.33 | awilcox | my mum would like the TV. |
| 02:30.49 | Erroneous | pretty much doesn't watch TV |
| 02:30.49 | awilcox | but yeah dang, that's awesome. |
| 02:30.59 | awilcox | Erroneous: heh me neither. I watch maybe 1 or 2 shows a week. |
| 02:31.00 | JeffM | unless it's trek ;) |
| 02:31.12 | Erroneous | trek's online :) |
| 02:31.35 | Erroneous | or on DVDs |
| 02:31.42 | awilcox | JeffM: does the network still need documentation? |
| 02:31.51 | spldart | mmMMmm all trek's on fileserver |
| 02:31.52 | JeffM | they added TOS to the netflix instant watch stuff |
| 02:31.52 | awilcox | er, *network code |
| 02:31.57 | JeffM | awilcox: probably |
| 02:32.00 | Erroneous | awilcox: does it look like it does? :) |
| 02:32.27 | spldart | ooOOoo... I got unlimited netflix... gotta check out the TOS... is it the enhanced stuff? with the extra effects? |
| 02:32.38 | awilcox | Erroneous: my debian box is hosed (temporarily) and solaris...is...still...taking...its...sweet...time...loading...package manager... |
| 02:32.43 | spldart | I have the DVD's of the originals |
| 02:33.53 | Erroneous | spldart: CBS has posted all of the originals, and is posting the remastered ones as they air |
| 02:34.23 | spldart | oooo :) |
| 02:34.25 | Erroneous | I'd assume netflix is running off what they post, but I dunno |
| 02:34.52 | awilcox | anybody know where KDE would be hiding in this monster? |
| 02:35.03 | awilcox | I'd like to pull in bztrunk. |
| 02:35.13 | awilcox | but ugh. I can't work...or even THINK...with gnome :P |
| 02:35.23 | awilcox | I did a search for KDE but couldn't find it. |
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| 02:37.36 | Erroneous | awilcox: it's part of the freeware collection |
| 02:37.56 | Erroneous | http://ftp.tiscali.nl/sunfreeware/KDE/ for instance |
| 02:37.58 | spldart | goes to check router |
| 02:38.33 | Erroneous | but you really should get used to working in unfamiliar environments |
| 02:38.37 | Erroneous | adaptability is valuable |
| 02:39.03 | awilcox | Erroneous: I can use gnome. but I hate it very badly. |
| 02:39.08 | Erroneous | is an XFCE guy anyway, when a DE is necessary |
| 02:39.13 | awilcox | I can use many different shells :p |
| 02:39.28 | awilcox | bash, tcsh, ksh if absolutely necessary, even the original sh. |
| 02:39.39 | Erroneous | so use one, and stop complaining :P |
| 02:39.57 | awilcox | eh okay. |
| 02:40.04 | awilcox | tries to remember how to check out bztrunk |
| 02:40.51 | Erroneous | ~bzsvn |
| 02:40.52 | ibot | well, bzsvn is http://my.bzflag.org/w/BZFlag_SVN and svn co https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag bzflag |
| 02:40.56 | Erroneous | why remember, when the bot knows it? :) |
| 02:41.29 | Constitution | then you just have to remember the factoid ;) |
| 02:41.50 | Erroneous | touche |
| 02:43.03 | Erroneous | locks up and goes home |
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| 08:42.46 | brlcad | yawns |
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| 10:06.48 | noyb_ | hey there, trepan .. saw the pics on bzexcess. pretty cool stuff. |
| 10:08.35 | noyb_ | ok, g'night |
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| 16:33.28 | CIA-66 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r19454 10/trunk/bzflag/src/other/ (66 files in 18 dirs): |
| 16:33.28 | CIA-66 | BZFlag: Revert whitespace changes in third-party software. |
| 16:33.28 | CIA-66 | BZFlag: This will make it easier to identify and carry forward functional modifications when upgrading to new versions from upstream. |
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| 16:37.50 | BulletCatcher | trepan, I did not undo the whitespace changes you made to src/other/lua as I consider that to be your baby. A "svn merge -r HEAD:19450 ." command in src/other/lua will do it if you want. |
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| 20:18.26 | JeffM | finds it funny that every time he goes into an IRC channel for a 3d engine, they ask if he's going to make bzflag use it :) |
| 20:23.17 | brlcad | :) |
| 20:23.41 | Winny | hehe |
| 20:25.15 | brlcad | then you should ask in response, "Is Z up in your engine?" .. and if they say no, then you say "then no"; and if they say "yes", then you ask if they use a right or left-handed coordinate system .. if they say left, you say "then no" .. if they .. I think you see where I'm going with that :) |
| 20:25.30 | brlcad | just to mess with them a bit |
| 20:26.07 | JeffM | if it wasn't, I woudln't be looking there |
| 20:26.22 | JeffM | and using this one in bzflag would take a "bit" of rewriting of the client code |
| 20:28.09 | JeffM | it is just an ogre port tho |
| 20:29.33 | brlcad | I hope someone makes a good graphics logic encapsulation pitch if we're accepted |
| 20:30.18 | brlcad | I think that'd probably fix a few state problems in the process aside from getting closer to enginess |
| 20:30.24 | JeffM | indeed |
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| 22:47.26 | trepan | BulletCatcher: diff has some command line switches for ignoring whitespace (handy for targetting functional changes). an example would be 'diff -urw <dir1> <dir2> |
| 22:49.36 | trepan | svn even supports them by proxy, ex: svn diff -x -w -c 19452 |
| 22:50.02 | trepan | as for the lua directory, all the .c files were renamed to .cxx, so it's got its own problems ;-) |
| 22:50.53 | trepan | and fwiw, you'd probably end up using the -w switch on any sources that didn't match the svn:eol-style ... |
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| 23:46.30 | qsp | Hi there, i-m using opensuse 11.1, fglrx, bzflag 2.0.12.20081203-MAINT-linux-gnu. i have dual screen setup, whenever i start bz it takes my first screen and half of second. and its distorted, is there any way to make bz run properly in 2560x1024? |
| 23:48.21 | qsp | by distorted i mean that it's shrinked, the usual square for mouse/shoot guidance is a rectangle. |
| 23:49.49 | TD-Linux | hmm bzflag is set to 2560x1024 right? |
| 23:49.54 | TD-Linux | in Display Settings |
| 23:49.54 | qsp | yes |
| 23:50.03 | qsp | though it gives a weird frequence |
| 23:50.10 | qsp | i mean |
| 23:50.21 | qsp | i wrong number. decimal and negative |
| 23:50.42 | qsp | but, let me check correct number |
| 23:50.50 | TD-Linux | hmm |
| 23:50.57 | TD-Linux | you can try passing the size in by command line |
| 23:51.06 | qsp | yes |
| 23:51.14 | qsp | with -geometry |
| 23:51.15 | qsp | i did |
| 23:51.19 | qsp | but results in the same |
| 23:51.25 | qsp | it does take my both screens |
| 23:51.30 | qsp | but image is shrinked |
| 23:51.40 | TD-Linux | weird |
| 23:51.40 | qsp | so that it takes only one and a half screen |
| 23:51.45 | qsp | but, for instance |
| 23:51.47 | TD-Linux | sounds kind of like fglrx fail |
| 23:51.48 | qsp | the center of mouse |
| 23:52.01 | qsp | is on real center (between 2 monitors) |
| 23:52.06 | TD-Linux | out of curiosity, does windowed mode work? |
| 23:52.10 | qsp | yes |
| 23:52.18 | qsp | and single screen as well |
| 23:52.23 | qsp | with maximum quality |
| 23:52.33 | qsp | its an already old card, ati 9600 |
| 23:52.33 | TD-Linux | no other 3D programs have this problem? |
| 23:52.46 | TD-Linux | are you using compositing? |
| 23:53.07 | qsp | on xorg, i guess not. its default xorg.conf |
| 23:53.12 | TD-Linux | some cards have a maximum texture size of 2048x2048 |
| 23:53.25 | qsp | but, no xinerama. and no effects |
| 23:53.35 | qsp | 2048... |
| 23:53.47 | TD-Linux | 2048 is about the size you are getting in fullscreen correct? |
| 23:53.55 | qsp | could be why its only till half screen |
| 23:54.04 | TD-Linux | is it precisely half? |
| 23:54.15 | qsp | seems so |
| 23:54.26 | qsp | no |
| 23:54.31 | qsp | almost 2 thirds |
| 23:55.02 | qsp | maybe its texture limit? |
| 23:55.10 | qsp | i didnt test other 3d programs |
| 23:55.12 | TD-Linux | 3/5 |
| 23:55.18 | qsp | besides glxgears :-D |
| 23:55.20 | TD-Linux | of the screen is used? |
| 23:55.35 | TD-Linux | 3/5 would mean precisely 2048 wide |
| 23:55.52 | qsp | well, it seems to be the reason indeed |
| 23:55.58 | qsp | i'll make some measurement |
| 23:56.07 | qsp | a minute please; |
| 23:56.10 | TD-Linux | BZFlag doesn't do render-to-texture for anything IIRC |
| 23:57.06 | qsp | sorry |
| 23:57.09 | qsp | i'm back |
| 23:57.14 | qsp | exactly 3 fifths |
| 23:57.20 | TD-Linux | ok |
| 23:57.21 | qsp | measured. |
| 23:57.36 | qsp | so its my graphics card limitation? |
| 23:57.39 | qsp | :-( |
| 23:57.39 | TD-Linux | hmm |
| 23:57.45 | TD-Linux | does windowed mode at that res work? |
| 23:57.57 | qsp | no, it starts flickering |
| 23:58.06 | TD-Linux | no stretching though? |
| 23:58.21 | qsp | well, its really not easy to see |
| 23:58.22 | TD-Linux | it might be your graphics card, do a google search |
| 23:58.23 | qsp | i mean |
| 23:58.27 | TD-Linux | the same problem should show up on windows too |
| 23:58.30 | qsp | the screen all flickers |
| 23:58.35 | TD-Linux | ok |
| 23:58.41 | qsp | but |
| 23:58.51 | TD-Linux | also compositing can do tiling, but I don't know if that would help or hurt for 3D |
| 23:58.57 | qsp | windowed with 1280 |
| 23:58.59 | qsp | works great |
| 23:59.07 | TD-Linux | that's below 2048 of course |
| 23:59.14 | TD-Linux | can you try dual screen at lower resolution? |
| 23:59.15 | qsp | i'll try window |
| 23:59.19 | qsp | with 2048 |