| 00:00.09 | qsp | it seems to default to 1024 |
| 00:00.09 | qsp | in windowed |
| 00:00.16 | qsp | if to make it fullscreen, i get flickers |
| 00:00.39 | qsp | but with the same size as when its on both screens |
| 00:01.10 | qsp | about lower resolution |
| 00:01.24 | qsp | i only seem to be able to put in 1024x480 |
| 00:01.28 | qsp | ... |
| 00:01.46 | qsp | well, do you happen to know if this parameter |
| 00:01.52 | qsp | max texture |
| 00:02.05 | qsp | is shown through some command? |
| 00:02.57 | TD-Linux | not sure, google ? |
| 00:02.59 | TD-Linux | glxinfo? |
| 00:03.06 | JeffM | max texture only has to do with our textures, not your screen size |
| 00:03.07 | qsp | well |
| 00:03.12 | qsp | i;m googling |
| 00:03.23 | JeffM | we ask openGL what the max texture you support is, and scale down to that if needed |
| 00:03.28 | JeffM | what video card do you have? |
| 00:03.35 | qsp | ati radeon 9600 |
| 00:03.41 | qsp | with propietary fglrx |
| 00:03.46 | JeffM | I'm sorry |
| 00:03.56 | qsp | but |
| 00:03.57 | TD-Linux | JeffM, yeah I know, but his res limit is suspiciously similar to a common texture size limit |
| 00:03.58 | qsp | well |
| 00:04.06 | qsp | if thats the case |
| 00:04.14 | JeffM | TD-Linux: it's probably a missmatch in the resoultion and geometry lines |
| 00:04.15 | TD-Linux | what Xorg version do you have? |
| 00:04.35 | TD-Linux | some default to compositing on, which would then involve render-to-texture |
| 00:04.43 | JeffM | the radeon will have a texture limit of 1024 or 2048 |
| 00:04.50 | JeffM | we don't have any textures that large by default |
| 00:04.54 | JeffM | ahh |
| 00:05.09 | JeffM | yeah on that slow card, you probably want to turn your desktop effects off |
| 00:05.20 | JeffM | specialy if you run games |
| 00:05.24 | qsp | xorg is 7.4-8.18 |
| 00:05.26 | TD-Linux | he has them off |
| 00:05.31 | TD-Linux | but |
| 00:05.32 | qsp | i dont have beryl |
| 00:05.34 | qsp | xinerama |
| 00:05.38 | qsp | or any effects |
| 00:05.43 | qsp | i personally like it like this |
| 00:05.46 | JeffM | then it's not using GL for the desktop |
| 00:05.51 | TD-Linux | that doesn't mean that aiglx is disabled |
| 00:05.52 | JeffM | and we don't render to a texture |
| 00:06.08 | TD-Linux | AIGLX can run even if your WM doesn't support it |
| 00:06.12 | JeffM | what is your geometry line in your config? |
| 00:06.18 | qsp | ok... |
| 00:06.23 | qsp | config of bz? |
| 00:06.31 | JeffM | your bzflag config |
| 00:06.35 | TD-Linux | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RenderingProject/aiglx#How_can_I_disable_AIGLX_and_the_compositing_extension.3F |
| 00:06.47 | JeffM | TD-Linux: check the simple stuff first ;) |
| 00:06.51 | TD-Linux | OK :) |
| 00:07.18 | JeffM | generaly when the rendering viewport dosn't match the window, it's because the geometry line is wrong |
| 00:07.21 | TD-Linux | related: I'm currently reverse engineering a certain ATI GPU |
| 00:07.22 | qsp | well |
| 00:07.26 | JeffM | we use 2 different settings for them |
| 00:07.29 | qsp | its now in 2048 |
| 00:07.34 | JeffM | what was it? |
| 00:07.34 | qsp | cause of last attempt |
| 00:07.38 | qsp | i'll correct |
| 00:07.48 | JeffM | TD-Linux: that dosn't make all problems related to what you are doing right now ;) |
| 00:07.56 | JeffM | qsp: make sure it matches your resolution line |
| 00:08.09 | qsp | yes, i'm correcting now |
| 00:08.26 | qsp | ok |
| 00:08.31 | qsp | its there now |
| 00:08.39 | qsp | you realize the screen gets shrinked? |
| 00:08.43 | qsp | i mean, when you play |
| 00:08.48 | qsp | you have this square |
| 00:08.52 | qsp | for moving tank |
| 00:08.56 | JeffM | also note that bzflag isn't really setup for dual head, it can only work if both displays are shown in X as one big display |
| 00:08.59 | qsp | and when i put max resolution |
| 00:09.04 | qsp | it becomes a rectangle |
| 00:09.15 | JeffM | that's what makes me think it's the geometry line |
| 00:09.24 | JeffM | what sizes are your 2 displays? |
| 00:09.26 | JeffM | the same size? |
| 00:09.29 | qsp | yes |
| 00:09.30 | TD-Linux | JeffM, well it's working, and it's hitting a limit of precisely 2048 |
| 00:09.35 | qsp | 1280x1024 |
| 00:09.44 | JeffM | hmm |
| 00:09.49 | JeffM | probably just a suck driver then |
| 00:09.53 | JeffM | or a limit on the card |
| 00:10.05 | TD-Linux | try the disabling AIGLX and Composite |
| 00:10.08 | qsp | yes. i measured. it stops in 3 fifths |
| 00:10.08 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@cpe-75-81-243-228.we.res.rr.com) |
| 00:10.08 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 00:10.09 | qsp | ok |
| 00:10.14 | qsp | in xorg.conf? |
| 00:10.16 | JeffM | why do you want to play on 2 displays? so you can't see where you shoot? ;) |
| 00:10.17 | TD-Linux | yes |
| 00:10.24 | qsp | well |
| 00:10.29 | qsp | i do play in one only |
| 00:10.31 | qsp | but |
| 00:10.34 | qsp | i was curious |
| 00:10.39 | TD-Linux | 2560-2048 = 512 |
| 00:10.41 | qsp | about how it looks in both |
| 00:10.54 | JeffM | that old card probably can't support a context that large |
| 00:11.01 | JeffM | how much memory is on it? |
| 00:11.02 | TD-Linux | 512 / 1280 = 2/5 of screen blank |
| 00:11.17 | TD-Linux | in case you wondered where I pulled 3/5 from :) |
| 00:11.27 | qsp | yeah |
| 00:11.30 | qsp | i realised it |
| 00:11.32 | qsp | well |
| 00:11.34 | qsp | in xorg |
| 00:11.41 | qsp | i think this option used to be something like |
| 00:11.49 | qsp | option composite true |
| 00:11.52 | qsp | right? |
| 00:12.32 | qsp | well |
| 00:12.36 | qsp | i search for composite |
| 00:12.38 | qsp | nothing there |
| 00:12.39 | JeffM | is it a radeon 9600 SE? |
| 00:12.52 | TD-Linux | qsp, yeah, because it's on by default |
| 00:13.05 | qsp | uhhh.... its a 9600, pro i guess. |
| 00:13.09 | TD-Linux | so that option is no longer needed |
| 00:13.15 | qsp | ok... |
| 00:13.20 | qsp | so i should disable |
| 00:13.54 | qsp | (googling) |
| 00:14.01 | TD-Linux | the link shows you how |
| 00:14.03 | qsp | Section "Extensions" |
| 00:14.04 | qsp | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:14.06 | qsp | EndSection |
| 00:14.10 | TD-Linux | just paste those two lines in your xorg.conf |
| 00:14.13 | TD-Linux | err 6 |
| 00:15.21 | qsp | ok |
| 00:15.28 | JeffM | the card looks to have a context limit of 2048 x 1536 |
| 00:15.51 | qsp | context is different from textures then, right? |
| 00:15.53 | JeffM | probalby the largest line the fill unit can do |
| 00:15.55 | JeffM | yes |
| 00:16.02 | qsp | well |
| 00:16.04 | JeffM | but many cards limit contexts to the same size as textures |
| 00:16.16 | qsp | i dont know, blender does dual screen? |
| 00:16.16 | JeffM | since they often use the same hardware |
| 00:16.26 | JeffM | blender may be in software openGL mode |
| 00:16.34 | qsp | i could try with other app |
| 00:16.40 | qsp | i also changed xorg |
| 00:16.44 | qsp | so |
| 00:16.49 | qsp | i'll disappear |
| 00:16.52 | qsp | for some seconds |
| 00:16.56 | qsp | to restart xorg |
| 00:17.05 | JeffM | it can't run fast at that res, it's only an AGP card |
| 00:17.14 | qsp | well |
| 00:17.17 | qsp | it goes well |
| 00:17.20 | qsp | on this 2048 |
| 00:17.27 | qsp | though i dont know the FPS |
| 00:17.35 | qsp | i'm not a really a gamer :-) |
| 00:17.37 | JeffM | how much ram does it have? |
| 00:17.40 | qsp | but i like bxflag a lot |
| 00:17.51 | TD-Linux | bus speed shouldn't limit resolution |
| 00:18.03 | qsp | 128MB |
| 00:18.09 | qsp | clock 330Mhz |
| 00:18.14 | TD-Linux | that's plenty |
| 00:18.15 | JeffM | TD-Linux: I didn't mean limit res, I mean limit speed |
| 00:18.36 | qsp | i have all effects on, in game |
| 00:18.43 | qsp | and it seems doing reasonably well |
| 00:18.54 | qsp | this card has some sort of changed firmware though |
| 00:19.00 | qsp | from previous owner |
| 00:19.01 | JeffM | well ATI's specs say the max 3d res is 16.7 million colors @ 2048 x 1536 |
| 00:19.03 | TD-Linux | my 9600 runs BZFlag at 1680x1050 150fps about |
| 00:19.26 | qsp | mmm |
| 00:19.29 | JeffM | so it would not suprise me that the driver may have some context limit for the context we ask for |
| 00:19.35 | qsp | but |
| 00:19.38 | JeffM | blender will for sure ask for a different type of context |
| 00:19.49 | JeffM | is the game view 'cut off' ? |
| 00:19.53 | qsp | if you have 9600.... isnt like my card? |
| 00:19.54 | JeffM | or just shrunk |
| 00:20.04 | qsp | just shrunk |
| 00:20.07 | qsp | i see all as i should |
| 00:20.09 | qsp | but |
| 00:20.15 | TD-Linux | qsp: mine is a laptop card, I have never run it higher than 1680x1050 or more than one screen |
| 00:20.16 | qsp | the center of mouse, is on actual center |
| 00:20.26 | JeffM | it's possible the ATI driver is resizing the context that we get back |
| 00:21.01 | qsp | sorry, td linux. i thought you said same resolution as i have... i;m getting blind |
| 00:21.07 | qsp | well |
| 00:21.16 | qsp | maybe there is some way to check context size? |
| 00:21.25 | JeffM | if it was compiz or soemthign else getting in the way, I'd expect it to be clamped, not shrunk |
| 00:21.35 | JeffM | cus if it's shrunk, then WE are getting 2048 as the res |
| 00:21.43 | qsp | i can restart X to check.. as i changed this option |
| 00:21.45 | TD-Linux | 2048x820 would be your optimal res for dual screen if the 2048 limit is unavoidable |
| 00:22.13 | qsp | well.. but its on lcd screens |
| 00:22.23 | TD-Linux | yeah so you get ugly scaling |
| 00:22.24 | qsp | it means, the graphics |
| 00:22.27 | qsp | gets scaled |
| 00:22.29 | qsp | so |
| 00:22.31 | qsp | well |
| 00:22.39 | qsp | i'm very happy with 1280 |
| 00:22.42 | TD-Linux | OK |
| 00:22.50 | TD-Linux | BZFlag dual-screen isn't so great anyay |
| 00:22.51 | JeffM | to do any more I'd have to see a screenshot |
| 00:22.55 | qsp | i just would be even happier to try with both screens |
| 00:23.01 | JeffM | or have you throw in some log lines for the context |
| 00:23.03 | TD-Linux | you shoot right in between the screens :S |
| 00:23.08 | qsp | maybe i'd start being able to actually kill someone there :-D |
| 00:23.25 | qsp | i have no problem about screen shot |
| 00:23.36 | qsp | bz has possibility to make one in game right? |
| 00:23.37 | JeffM | the screenshot comes out correctly? |
| 00:23.43 | JeffM | yeah F5 |
| 00:23.54 | qsp | i dont know, but i'll try right now. |
| 00:24.06 | *** join/#bzflag Swigg (n=Default@bzflag/player/Swigg) |
| 00:24.50 | qsp | errr |
| 00:24.55 | qsp | stupid question |
| 00:24.58 | qsp | where is it stored? |
| 00:25.03 | JeffM | in your .bzf dir |
| 00:25.05 | JeffM | in your home dir |
| 00:25.09 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (n=spldart2@bzflag/contributor/spldart) |
| 00:25.09 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 00:25.18 | qsp | ok |
| 00:25.21 | qsp | lets see then |
| 00:25.44 | qsp | ok |
| 00:25.50 | qsp | screen shot is accurate |
| 00:25.57 | JeffM | what size is the image? |
| 00:26.16 | qsp | 2560.1024 |
| 00:26.29 | JeffM | and the 3d view goes to the edge? or is stoped? |
| 00:26.29 | qsp | it shows the shrink effect i mentioned |
| 00:26.32 | JeffM | ahh ok |
| 00:26.41 | JeffM | yeah it's gotta be driver then |
| 00:26.52 | qsp | if you'd like to see the shot i can send? |
| 00:26.53 | JeffM | the context is not returning a viewport that big |
| 00:27.11 | JeffM | if it was compiz or something shrinking it, we'd show the full image cus that's what we think we draw |
| 00:27.17 | JeffM | but here the context has the black in it |
| 00:27.23 | qsp | yes |
| 00:27.32 | qsp | but why does bz scale then? |
| 00:27.35 | JeffM | we don't |
| 00:27.44 | JeffM | we asked for a full viewport |
| 00:27.53 | JeffM | but your driver said "no, you can only have one this big" |
| 00:27.59 | JeffM | so then we just draw in that |
| 00:28.06 | JeffM | it's not scaled |
| 00:28.11 | JeffM | we are only drawing that big |
| 00:28.15 | qsp | yes.; ok |
| 00:28.23 | qsp | if resized it wouldnt stretch |
| 00:28.34 | qsp | its new drivers from ati |
| 00:28.40 | qsp | from february |
| 00:28.44 | JeffM | it's not normal for the viewport to come back different from the context size |
| 00:28.46 | qsp | before it would just not launch |
| 00:28.53 | qsp | in 2 screens |
| 00:28.54 | JeffM | I highly doubt we handle it correctly |
| 00:29.07 | qsp | and now it did so i thought it would be related to bzflag |
| 00:29.10 | qsp | but it makes sense |
| 00:29.20 | JeffM | oh, see you didn't mention THAT before |
| 00:29.30 | JeffM | sounds like they are JUST getting dual head full screen GL working |
| 00:29.36 | qsp | oh, sorry. |
| 00:29.37 | qsp | yes |
| 00:29.43 | qsp | previous drivers |
| 00:29.47 | JeffM | blender probalby works cus it's NOT full screen |
| 00:29.47 | qsp | it would flicker |
| 00:29.54 | qsp | handhang frequently |
| 00:29.59 | qsp | so i'd switch to clone mode |
| 00:29.59 | JeffM | yeah |
| 00:30.02 | qsp | whenever i wanted to play |
| 00:30.09 | JeffM | get a better card that can use newer drivers, or play on one screen :) |
| 00:30.27 | qsp | yeah, i'll play in one screen. |
| 00:30.34 | qsp | i'm not really a gamer, as i said |
| 00:30.36 | qsp | and i'm happy now |
| 00:30.45 | qsp | before i had to go through the procedure |
| 00:30.49 | qsp | of changing to clone mode |
| 00:30.56 | qsp | with a little script i had written |
| 00:31.02 | qsp | now it lets me play in one screen |
| 00:31.08 | qsp | and see everything else normally on other |
| 00:31.15 | qsp | so its a big improvement |
| 00:31.23 | qsp | i guess i just wanted a tad tooo much |
| 00:31.27 | qsp | :-) |
| 00:31.54 | qsp | well, thank you a lot, both |
| 00:32.19 | qsp | i see the game is just as good in community/developers as it is in game :-D |
| 00:32.34 | JeffM | well the feature you probably want we don't support, radar on one screen, 3d viewe on the other |
| 00:32.55 | qsp | it would be interesting |
| 00:33.00 | qsp | i also played around with -view |
| 00:33.01 | *** join/#bzflag Swigg_ (n=Default@66-169-6-196.dhcp.gnvl.sc.charter.com) |
| 00:33.06 | qsp | before comming for help |
| 00:33.16 | JeffM | most of that is for very special display settups |
| 00:33.18 | qsp | and the one that stacks the screens is almost what i needed |
| 00:33.19 | JeffM | and HMDs |
| 00:33.27 | qsp | just i needed it horizontal |
| 00:33.29 | qsp | :-) |
| 00:33.35 | qsp | but well |
| 00:33.47 | qsp | some kind of interface |
| 00:33.48 | qsp | that runs separatedly |
| 00:33.57 | qsp | would be interesting |
| 00:34.02 | qsp | for console messages |
| 00:34.03 | JeffM | huh? |
| 00:34.04 | qsp | chat |
| 00:34.08 | qsp | radar... |
| 00:34.25 | qsp | like you said, an separate app that reads the 2d info |
| 00:34.31 | qsp | and leaving a single 3d window |
| 00:34.33 | JeffM | no, I didn't say seperate app |
| 00:34.50 | JeffM | apps can make more then one window ;) |
| 00:35.00 | JeffM | just not using SDL right now |
| 00:35.08 | qsp | of course. |
| 00:35.13 | qsp | one would be sdl/3d |
| 00:35.20 | JeffM | both would be 3d |
| 00:35.28 | JeffM | the radar is a 3d object |
| 00:35.45 | qsp | but |
| 00:35.54 | qsp | so i can actually load 2 3d apps |
| 00:35.59 | JeffM | sure |
| 00:36.01 | qsp | each of 1240? |
| 00:36.13 | JeffM | would depend on the driver |
| 00:36.30 | qsp | but it would exceed the viewport, no? |
| 00:36.30 | JeffM | you'd be splitting contexts across processes, and on that card that is lots of cache flushes |
| 00:36.32 | JeffM | it'd be slow |
| 00:36.47 | qsp | or its simply a viewport for each app? |
| 00:37.06 | qsp | i thought the sum of all 3d apps would have to be 2048 |
| 00:37.12 | qsp | i understood wrong then |
| 00:37.13 | JeffM | ok, the feature I am talking about, does not involve 2 apps, I don't know why you keep saying 2 apps |
| 00:37.24 | JeffM | the feature would be to have bzflag open 2 windows |
| 00:37.29 | JeffM | window != app |
| 00:37.40 | qsp | well |
| 00:37.46 | qsp | it works well on my card |
| 00:37.47 | qsp | it see,s |
| 00:37.54 | qsp | i try now |
| 00:37.58 | qsp | and i can play 2 bzs |
| 00:38.02 | qsp | od 1240 |
| 00:38.05 | qsp | *of |
| 00:39.21 | qsp | ok, weird experiment, it lets me play on 2 different servers at once. and it goes smooth |
| 00:39.30 | qsp | so its a pitty that the card handles it well |
| 00:39.51 | qsp | but wont allow a single app to go up to 2450 |
| 00:40.00 | JeffM | yeah cus it swaps the memory out for each one |
| 00:40.10 | JeffM | the problem is that it isn't set up to do it all at one shot |
| 00:40.20 | JeffM | in your 2 app case, it toggles back and forth |
| 00:40.57 | qsp | probably this doesnt affect all fglrx cards? |
| 00:41.05 | qsp | i mean, could it be hardware |
| 00:41.11 | qsp | or driver limitation? |
| 00:41.14 | JeffM | newer hardware generaly can do larger |
| 00:41.19 | qsp | ah, ok |
| 00:41.22 | JeffM | or there are ways to fake it with saders |
| 00:41.25 | JeffM | shaders |
| 00:41.40 | qsp | that requires different game engine, no? |
| 00:41.47 | JeffM | if it's a hardware limit, the driver could be made to work around it, if they cared enough to go heroic on it |
| 00:41.52 | JeffM | no |
| 00:41.56 | JeffM | drivers can use shaders too |
| 00:42.01 | JeffM | modern cards are ONLY shaders |
| 00:42.07 | qsp | mm |
| 00:42.12 | JeffM | and openGL is implemented as a ton of shader programs |
| 00:42.31 | qsp | a newer card, nvidia or ati would probably handle it then. |
| 00:42.38 | JeffM | hard to say |
| 00:42.45 | qsp | well |
| 00:42.46 | JeffM | a 3d context that large is not common |
| 00:42.51 | JeffM | not as a single context |
| 00:43.03 | qsp | anyway. with this new feature being developed |
| 00:43.13 | JeffM | the better way to do it from the application side is create a context per display |
| 00:43.13 | qsp | it would be unecessary |
| 00:43.21 | qsp | *wouldnt |
| 00:43.21 | JeffM | who said it was being developed? |
| 00:44.16 | JeffM | all I said was that the feature you want, we don't have |
| 00:44.16 | JeffM | it's been discussed, sure |
| 00:44.17 | qsp | must be the time :-) 1am |
| 00:44.17 | qsp | sorry. |
| 00:44.17 | JeffM | but that dosn't mean it's in any kind of active devlopment |
| 00:44.17 | qsp | i thought you said it was being developed |
| 00:44.17 | qsp | well |
| 00:44.17 | JeffM | nope |
| 00:44.18 | qsp | i have no idea how it works |
| 00:44.25 | qsp | but on the quest of finding |
| 00:44.35 | qsp | why it didnt go through 2 screens |
| 00:44.43 | qsp | i saw some people using perl scripts |
| 00:44.47 | qsp | to get user info |
| 00:45.08 | qsp | so technically |
| 00:45.21 | qsp | it could be possible to remove the console message and box |
| 00:45.29 | qsp | and leave the window with only the 3d elements |
| 00:45.41 | JeffM | good luck with that |
| 00:46.00 | JeffM | how a perl script would get info out of bzflag is beyond me |
| 00:46.07 | qsp | :-) i'd need to get more addicted :-) |
| 00:46.16 | qsp | i have no idea as well. i dont know the api |
| 00:46.26 | JeffM | there isn't one |
| 00:46.29 | qsp | as i said, it just seems someone made a script to get user info |
| 00:46.31 | qsp | but |
| 00:46.38 | qsp | it could be a directo connection to server |
| 00:46.41 | JeffM | probably had it log in as a fake client |
| 00:46.42 | JeffM | yeah |
| 00:46.53 | JeffM | or moded bzflag to dump the info |
| 00:47.07 | qsp | ok :-) very good |
| 00:47.18 | qsp | i'll use in one screeen then |
| 00:47.23 | qsp | thanks for all the help |
| 00:47.25 | qsp | and time |
| 00:47.36 | JeffM | sure |
| 00:47.41 | qsp | i'll improve the shots :-D |
| 00:47.47 | qsp | then i might deserve a better card |
| 00:47.57 | qsp | see you all then. thank you. |
| 01:00.34 | temp_dist | ~bzquery |
| 01:00.56 | me1 | ~bzfquery |
| 01:01.11 | me1 | ~bzflist |
| 01:01.19 | me1 | there ya go |
| 01:01.33 | temp_dist | hmm - having authentication problems |
| 01:22.15 | *** join/#bzflag jcp (n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539) |
| 03:36.19 | spldart | bzadmin still brokeded? |
| 03:45.11 | blast007 | spldart: I don't think anyone has bothered with it ;) |
| 03:46.11 | spldart | oki doke. Hey. Since your hear can you recommend me a good system monitor software. Apparently motherboardmonitor doesn;'t support my mobo or perhaps my OS |
| 03:49.00 | trepan | "your hear", definitely the worst typo i've seen today :) |
| 03:50.11 | spldart | true |
| 03:50.26 | spldart | I'm tired... gotta run an errand in a couple minutes and then it's crash time |
| 03:51.04 | JeffM | spldart: what do you want to monitor? |
| 03:51.30 | spldart | Temp, voltage, frequency throttling. |
| 03:51.39 | JeffM | http://www.cpuid.com/pcwizard.php |
| 03:52.05 | JeffM | cpuz will give you most of the frequencies |
| 03:52.30 | spldart | Will it monitor throtting live? |
| 03:52.40 | JeffM | yeah |
| 03:52.50 | JeffM | it's not meant to like stay in the corner and show you stuff |
| 03:52.58 | JeffM | but it'll update as it runs |
| 03:53.19 | spldart | ic |
| 03:53.20 | spldart | thanks |
| 03:54.15 | blast007 | spldart: doesn't your motherboard manufacturer have software for your board? |
| 03:54.20 | blast007 | my ASUS provides stuff |
| 03:54.32 | spldart | I couldn't find what I needed for my new giga |
| 03:54.46 | blast007 | shoulda got an ASUS ;) |
| 03:55.00 | JeffM | pcwizard will probably give you what you want |
| 03:55.10 | JeffM | and CPUZ will give you MORE then what you want for the rest |
| 03:55.16 | spldart | hehe |
| 03:55.21 | spldart | BBL |
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| 16:48.07 | brlcad | starts the drumroll |
| 16:48.27 | Winny | http://sadtrombone.com |
| 16:49.24 | JeffM | it's not even 10:00 |
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| 18:15.53 | randomparticle | Getting an error: 1>..\..\src\common\TimeKeeper.cxx(405) : error C2664: 'GetProcessAffinityMask' : cannot convert parameter 3 from 'DWORD *' to 'PDWORD_PTR' |
| 18:17.05 | randomparticle | works ok if i put a cast in there |
| 18:19.49 | brlcad | JeffM: they were announced early |
| 18:20.01 | JeffM | ahh |
| 18:20.05 | JeffM | did we get in? |
| 18:20.14 | brlcad | yay for melange letting them get through things early |
| 18:20.16 | randomparticle | what is a PDWORD_PTR supposed to be? a pointer to a pointer to a DWORD? |
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| 18:20.30 | brlcad | melange reported the results long before they announced too |
| 18:20.32 | JeffM | randomparticle: no if it was, then it'd let you cast it :) |
| 18:20.34 | brlcad | has known for nearly an hour |
| 18:20.41 | randomparticle | it does let me cast it |
| 18:20.47 | JeffM | good |
| 18:20.51 | randomparticle | not implicitly though |
| 18:21.15 | JeffM | you should go see what windows defines a PDWORD_PTR as |
| 18:21.30 | randomparticle | typedef ULONG_PTR DWORD_PTR, *PDWORD_PTR; |
| 18:21.31 | brlcad | http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || Latest Release: 2.0.12 (linux), 2.0.10 (everyone else) || Sorry, we're not participating in GSoC this year... |
| 18:21.40 | JeffM | twas a longshot |
| 18:21.45 | brlcad | http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 || Latest Release: 2.0.12 (linux), 2.0.10 (everyone else) || haha, just kidding. GSoC 2009 here we go! |
| 18:21.49 | JeffM | aha |
| 18:22.09 | JeffM | randomparticle: so it's a pointer to a pointer |
| 18:22.12 | JeffM | not a pointer |
| 18:22.41 | randomparticle | why is compilation failing for me but not (presumably) for others? |
| 18:22.52 | JeffM | you may presume too much |
| 18:23.07 | JeffM | or you may have a different SDK with a different define for it |
| 18:23.23 | randomparticle | i have: |
| 18:23.25 | randomparticle | GetProcessAffinityMask( |
| 18:23.25 | randomparticle | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:23.25 | randomparticle | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:23.25 | randomparticle | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:23.25 | randomparticle | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:23.49 | randomparticle | in bz: |
| 18:23.50 | randomparticle | DWORD dwProcs = 0; |
| 18:23.50 | randomparticle | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:24.09 | randomparticle | but in the original without that cast |
| 18:24.32 | randomparticle | not sure if the cast if any good anyway |
| 18:25.01 | JeffM | you probably don't want to cast like that |
| 18:25.19 | JeffM | define dwProcs as a DWORD* |
| 18:25.37 | JeffM | it's not going to fill in a DWORD value, it's going to give you back a pointer to a DWORD |
| 18:25.42 | JeffM | so you need the address of the pointer |
| 18:25.47 | randomparticle | ok. did look a bit dodgy |
| 18:26.33 | randomparticle | now it's failing like so: |
| 18:26.34 | randomparticle | 1>..\..\src\common\TimeKeeper.cxx(406) : error C2040: '<' : 'DWORD' differs in levels of indirection from 'DWORD *' |
| 18:26.57 | randomparticle | this is the line: |
| 18:26.59 | randomparticle | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:27.53 | JeffM | brlcad: did brlcad get in? |
| 18:28.51 | JeffM | you would need to deref it |
| 18:29.21 | randomparticle | how do we do this so it will compile on everyone's system? :) |
| 18:29.35 | randomparticle | not much good me changing it if it fails for everyone else |
| 18:30.37 | randomparticle | http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms683213(VS.85).aspx |
| 18:32.09 | randomparticle | i presumed it wasn't failing for at least one other person, because i presumed no one would check in code that doesn't compile |
| 18:32.15 | randomparticle | is that latter assumption incorrect? |
| 18:32.19 | JeffM | yes |
| 18:32.26 | randomparticle | crikey |
| 18:32.27 | JeffM | are you doing 64 bit builds? |
| 18:32.31 | randomparticle | yes |
| 18:32.44 | JeffM | not everyone runs the same system, so it woudl stand that a developer could NOT test all things |
| 18:32.48 | JeffM | ok, then that's your difference |
| 18:32.54 | JeffM | we don't do 64 bit builds |
| 18:33.02 | JeffM | that's how it compiles |
| 18:33.09 | randomparticle | but the API has the same definition? |
| 18:33.12 | Erroneous | it's a pointer to a DWORD, not a pointer to a pointer to a DWORD (DWORD_PTR is unsigned long) |
| 18:33.28 | JeffM | then his 64 bit build is being picky |
| 18:33.39 | Erroneous | naw, his DWORD is a different size :) |
| 18:33.41 | JeffM | randomparticle: you are doing something we do not officialy support |
| 18:34.01 | randomparticle | but if the code had used the correct definition, rather than casting implicitly, it would work? |
| 18:34.11 | JeffM | dunno |
| 18:34.18 | randomparticle | just crap code i guess :) |
| 18:34.22 | JeffM | never worked with that code on a 64 bit build |
| 18:34.24 | Erroneous | change "DWORD dwProcs = 0;" to "DWORD_PTR dwProcs = 0;" |
| 18:34.35 | JeffM | yeah get the types right |
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| 18:34.40 | JeffM | then on 64 bit it'll all match |
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| 18:34.49 | JeffM | you need a 32bit dword, not a 64 bit dowrk |
| 18:34.51 | JeffM | dword |
| 18:35.18 | randomparticle | what does a P prefix generally mean? |
| 18:35.18 | JeffM | pointer |
| 18:35.22 | randomparticle | and the _PTR suffix? |
| 18:35.34 | JeffM | pointer |
| 18:35.34 | randomparticle | that looks pointerish too :) |
| 18:35.47 | randomparticle | that's why i guessed at pointer to pointer |
| 18:35.47 | Erroneous | _PTR just means it changes by platform |
| 18:35.54 | JeffM | _PTR_PTR would look silly ;) |
| 18:36.07 | randomparticle | could have PPDWORD :) |
| 18:36.12 | Erroneous | DWORD_PTR is defined as unsigned long. DWORD is unsigned int. |
| 18:36.47 | JeffM | they could have done a lot of things, but they didn't |
| 18:37.31 | randomparticle | DWORD is unsigned long for me |
| 18:37.46 | randomparticle | in windef.h |
| 18:38.01 | Erroneous | you are probably using an old API. do you have the _PTR types defined? |
| 18:38.10 | randomparticle | yes |
| 18:38.39 | randomparticle | this is the 6.1 platform sdk |
| 18:38.46 | randomparticle | so not that old :) |
| 18:38.56 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r19455 10/trunk/bzflag/src/common/TimeKeeper.cxx: use the correct type for GetProcessAffinityMask's dwProcs, so that 64 bit builds don't try to send a 64 bit DWORD in there. |
| 18:40.07 | randomparticle | this is what i'm using: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=e6e1c3df-a74f-4207-8586-711ebe331cdc&displaylang=en |
| 18:40.09 | Erroneous | the _PTR one is the one that changes size (thus "pointer-precision")...we want the 64-bit one. right change, wrong description. |
| 18:40.23 | JeffM | oh well |
| 18:40.30 | JeffM | has a headake |
| 18:40.38 | JeffM | and is kinda boored |
| 18:40.47 | JeffM | and my mouth tastes horible |
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| 18:41.20 | Erroneous | fun |
| 18:42.12 | temp_work | I assume that "haha, just kidding. GSoC 2009 here we go!" means the project is in this year? |
| 18:43.06 | Winny | only problem is we have to pay google this time :( |
| 18:44.34 | Wyk3d | temp_work: unless you read it backwards, i think yes :) |
| 18:44.51 | JeffM | brlcad: how many orgs got in? |
| 18:44.56 | Erroneous | randomparticle: if you feel like reading up a bit, http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa489638.aspx describes the what and why for pointer-precision types |
| 18:45.43 | JeffM | Erroneous: I totaly love how C# will put a red underline on any function that dosn't have the correct paramaters, or return type :) |
| 18:45.58 | Erroneous | yeah, that's handy |
| 18:46.05 | joevano | should we *actually* change the topic? |
| 18:46.13 | temp_work | lol |
| 18:46.44 | JeffM | probably shoudl wait for noon and real announcements |
| 18:47.06 | joevano | ah, k... guess that is in something like 15 minutes, right? |
| 18:47.14 | JeffM | yeah |
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| 18:52.13 | randomparticle | ok. i changed the code to this: |
| 18:52.15 | randomparticle | DWORD_PTR dwMask = 1 << processor; |
| 18:52.15 | randomparticle | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:52.17 | randomparticle | and it worked |
| 18:55.35 | randomparticle | that problem i had with sound: it occurs also when i start bzflag with '-mute' but the audio driver is enabled |
| 18:55.49 | blast007 | k |
| 18:56.00 | randomparticle | it doesn't occur in bz 2.99 |
| 18:56.07 | blast007 | good |
| 18:56.31 | blast007 | one less thing we need to fix ;) |
| 18:57.46 | randomparticle | i'm wondering if something was being called on the assumption that audio was there and there was a missing check |
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| 19:01.16 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03dtremenak * r19456 10/trunk/bzflag/src/common/TimeKeeper.cxx: mask is pointer-precision too |
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| 19:10.11 | brlcad | JeffM: 150 |
| 19:10.25 | brlcad | less than last year, more than 2007 |
| 19:10.35 | JeffM | how many other games? |
| 19:10.44 | brlcad | the list isn't published yet |
| 19:10.48 | JeffM | ahh |
| 19:11.04 | brlcad | apparently some orgs didn't get their accept/reject mails yet |
| 19:11.53 | JeffM | ahh |
| 19:11.59 | JeffM | how many applied I wonder |
| 19:12.30 | brlcad | aha, but can see it on melange... |
| 19:14.53 | joevano | brlcad: cograts BRL-CAD is in again as well |
| 19:16.00 | brlcad | wow.. looks like just worldforge and scummvm |
| 19:16.15 | brlcad | joevano: thanks (and how'd you notice?) |
| 19:16.35 | joevano | http://socghop.appspot.com/program/accepted_orgs/google/gsoc2009 |
| 19:16.58 | blast007 | it's right next to bzflag. hard not to notice. ;) |
| 19:16.59 | brlcad | ah, okay, so that bit is public |
| 19:17.10 | joevano | took a LONG time to open.. but it finally did |
| 19:18.29 | brlcad | distinctly notices ThousandParsec and Wesnoth missing |
| 19:18.49 | JeffM | did they apply? |
| 19:18.53 | joevano | yeah, i went through the list 3 times looking for them |
| 19:19.17 | brlcad | I know wesnoth did, my hats off to them .. that sucks |
| 19:19.25 | brlcad | tp I kinda understand.. |
| 19:20.23 | joevano | wonder how many of the orgs are new this year |
| 19:20.59 | brlcad | glancing through that list, maybe 20 or so, maybe around 10%-15% |
| 19:21.13 | joevano | the page is tricky... Battle for Wesnoth appears to have made it |
| 19:21.36 | JeffM | they are on page 2 of the first 100 |
| 19:21.42 | joevano | the top section only shows the first 50 that co not have profiles yet |
| 19:22.13 | joevano | as did ThousandParsecs |
| 19:22.19 | joevano | also on page 2 |
| 19:23.56 | joevano | you can see _almost_ all of them on one page if you select "100 items per page" in the dropdown |
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| 20:18.35 | CIA-11 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5588 10/w/Google_Summer_of_Code/2009: donny is dead man. |
| 20:18.59 | awilcox | :O |
| 20:19.16 | joevano | rofl |
| 20:21.36 | awilcox | question. |
| 20:22.08 | joevano | awilcox: answer |
| 20:22.12 | joevano | ~ask |
| 20:22.13 | ibot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 20:22.19 | awilcox | I never really liked the setup program for windows bzflag. if I write a WiX script (or another MSI) for it would you all consider using it? |
| 20:22.54 | joevano | what don't you like about it? |
| 20:23.29 | JeffM | probalby not |
| 20:24.43 | JeffM | picked NSIS cus it is NOT MSI :) |
| 20:25.24 | awilcox | ah. that's the main reason I don't like it :P |
| 20:25.36 | JeffM | it dosn't require the host OS to have any specific updates |
| 20:25.44 | JeffM | it dosn't get into a "wierd" state and screw up your machine |
| 20:25.50 | joevano | msi is good if you have to deploy it to lots of machines od script an install, but I don't now anyone doing that with bz ;P |
| 20:25.52 | awilcox | I don't know, NSIS always rubs me the wrong way. and does it install into the vista games explorer? |
| 20:25.53 | JeffM | it cross compiles on linux |
| 20:26.12 | JeffM | vista didn't exist when we made the current install script |
| 20:26.18 | JeffM | so I would think not |
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| 20:26.33 | JeffM | NSIS is cool, it's small, functional, and simple to use |
| 20:26.35 | awilcox | hm. is that something I could at least do? make it do that? |
| 20:26.36 | blast007 | http://nsis.sourceforge.net/Games_plug-in |
| 20:26.52 | JeffM | awilcox: sure if that floats your boat |
| 20:27.00 | JeffM | bzflag isn't exactly a complex install process :) |
| 20:27.07 | blast007 | one issue with that one: |
| 20:27.10 | blast007 | "WARNING: This plug-in requires MSVCR80.dll. Make sure it's installed on the user's machine or distribute it manually to make sure the plug-in will successfully load." |
| 20:27.38 | awilcox | or you could just, you know, write an INI manually (iirc that's all it needs anyway) |
| 20:28.55 | blast007 | http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb173432.aspx |
| 20:29.01 | JeffM | actualy we build with VC9 now, so we need to install the the runtimes for that |
| 20:29.05 | JeffM | the RIGHT way |
| 20:29.22 | blast007 | JeffM: yeah, just wasn't sure if it would need that DLL before the installer was run |
| 20:29.25 | awilcox | using the visual C++ redist package? |
| 20:29.42 | JeffM | I'd prefer an installer module that didn't need that |
| 20:29.47 | JeffM | awilcox: that would be best yes |
| 20:29.55 | JeffM | the vista game setup should be easy |
| 20:30.09 | JeffM | should just be an API or regestry call |
| 20:30.14 | awilcox | yeah. it's an XML file. |
| 20:30.18 | JeffM | it's possible we can even have bzflag do it on launch |
| 20:30.52 | awilcox | what would be the minimum and recommended windows experience index? |
| 20:30.55 | blast007 | or a last optional step at the end of the installer |
| 20:30.57 | awilcox | probably something like 1 and 3? |
| 20:31.03 | JeffM | awilcox: 1 |
| 20:34.41 | JeffM | 1 for both |
| 20:35.07 | awilcox | both? |
| 20:35.10 | JeffM | yes |
| 20:35.17 | JeffM | there is no reason windows should ever get in the way of the game |
| 20:35.21 | JeffM | so just set it to 1 for both |
| 20:35.25 | awilcox | bz would suck on a 1. |
| 20:35.39 | JeffM | not if you turned down the graphics |
| 20:35.45 | JeffM | we have people that still run in SOFTWARE |
| 20:35.49 | awilcox | which is why _minimum_ is 1 |
| 20:35.51 | JeffM | our requirements are LESS then vista |
| 20:35.53 | JeffM | set them both |
| 20:35.57 | awilcox | okay. |
| 20:36.01 | JeffM | there is NO reason vista should care |
| 20:36.37 | awilcox | we don't have "saved" games of any kind right? would you want that to go to the screenshots directory? or just don't have that? |
| 20:37.03 | JeffM | I'm not changing the screenshot system jsut for vista |
| 20:37.34 | awilcox | no no no. |
| 20:37.36 | awilcox | I meant |
| 20:37.52 | JeffM | we save data |
| 20:37.54 | awilcox | it can have a link to a "saved games" directory. do you want that to go to the screenshot folder? or do you want that link disabled? |
| 20:37.55 | JeffM | but it's not "save game" |
| 20:38.04 | JeffM | why would it go to screenshots? |
| 20:38.09 | JeffM | how is that a saved game? |
| 20:38.19 | awilcox | it's a picture of a game that is saved. |
| 20:38.28 | JeffM | riiiight |
| 20:38.51 | JeffM | does WoW have a saved games folder? |
| 20:39.43 | awilcox | I don't have WoW. I doubt it. |
| 20:39.50 | JeffM | exactly |
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| 20:43.44 | awilcox | what do you want under developers? "The BZFlag Team"? |
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| 20:52.49 | awilcox | ack. I don't have guidgen. |
| 20:58.22 | brlcad | oh, two pages -- hah, totally missed that :) (thx joevano) |
| 20:58.48 | JeffM | if you set both lists to show 100 people it'll show em all |
| 21:00.43 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (n=SpazzyMc@bzflag/contributor/SpazzyMcGee) |
| 21:00.43 | brlcad | yeah, I see now |
| 21:00.59 | brlcad | that's good to know .. was kinda bummed thinking wesnoth didn't make it |
| 21:01.29 | brlcad | awilcox: curious, what specifically don't you like about nsis? |
| 21:01.51 | brlcad | it's one of the most flexible and simple install builders I've ever dealt with, thought it was very nice |
| 21:02.10 | brlcad | if bz's installer sucks, that's not necessarily nsis' fault |
| 21:02.32 | brlcad | our descriptor file might have some bad juju in it |
| 21:02.43 | JeffM | thinks the current bz installer is pretty slick and functional |
| 21:02.54 | joevano | brlcad: has to do with the fact that our current installer doesn't follow the new "Vista" scheme of things |
| 21:03.17 | joevano | but that is just a timing thing, not a fault of nsis |
| 21:03.23 | JeffM | calls that a plus :) |
| 21:03.36 | brlcad | but that'd still just be a problem with our installer, no? |
| 21:03.44 | brlcad | not nsis itself |
| 21:03.44 | joevano | Vista drove me to OS X |
| 21:03.51 | JeffM | we are using an old version of nsis |
| 21:04.12 | CBG | ~joevano++ |
| 21:04.25 | brlcad | in the descriptor file, you say what files to install where, what registry keys get set optionally/required, what pages to prompt, etc .. |
| 21:04.34 | JeffM | and it's not like our app complies to all the windows standards ;) |
| 21:04.53 | JeffM | brlcad: yeah that stuff is fine, just old nsis that dosn't look vista like |
| 21:04.53 | brlcad | so if there's a new "vista way", that sounds like logic to be added (if we even wanted said behavior of course) |
| 21:05.01 | JeffM | and we don't do a "games for windows" XML file |
| 21:05.10 | brlcad | ah, the actual "appearance" is the complaint? |
| 21:05.36 | JeffM | so far the only thing he's said is "it rubs him the wrong way" and "it dosn't put the game in the 'vista games' section" |
| 21:06.35 | JeffM | goes to take his meds |
| 21:14.23 | mrdudle | i gotta take mine |
| 21:40.05 | *** join/#bzflag Will07c5 (n=william@63.252.66.252) |
| 21:58.39 | *** join/#bzflag mrdudle (n=mrdudle@unaffiliated/mrdudle) |
| 22:11.32 | *** join/#bzflag KingRobot (n=mathew@unaffiliated/kingrobot) |
| 22:11.46 | KingRobot | ping JeffM |
| 22:11.50 | JeffM | ? |
| 22:12.03 | KingRobot | Congrats on getting into GSoC again :) |
| 22:12.11 | JeffM | thanks |
| 22:12.33 | KingRobot | Have any interested students yet? |
| 22:12.44 | JeffM | not that I've seen |
| 22:12.50 | KingRobot | <-- |
| 22:12.51 | JeffM | tho it's only been announced for 3 hours |
| 22:13.20 | KingRobot | Didn't know you had been working on a robocode interface to bzflag |
| 22:13.27 | KingRobot | That's awesome |
| 22:13.33 | JeffM | that was one of the first SOC projects |
| 22:14.10 | KingRobot | Robocode is only 2D though |
| 22:14.21 | KingRobot | But it does have some incredibly powerful bots |
| 22:14.34 | JeffM | I don't think it was an EXACT robocode implementeation, more like "inspired by it" |
| 22:15.06 | KingRobot | Sure |
| 22:15.44 | KingRobot | So how exactly would "Lots o' Bug fixing" work out as a project? |
| 22:16.09 | JeffM | the proposal would have to list items in our bug list that the student intended to fix |
| 22:16.16 | JeffM | showing they understand what we have left to do |
| 22:16.25 | KingRobot | That's kind of more like a lot of little projects... |
| 22:16.29 | JeffM | yes |
| 22:16.41 | JeffM | personaly I'd not have put that on the ideas page, but it wasn't up to me |
| 22:16.49 | KingRobot | Well |
| 22:16.54 | JeffM | personaly I'd swap it with the bz workbench one in priority |
| 22:17.16 | KingRobot | Having done dev work, I can see why the devs would want it. |
| 22:17.28 | KingRobot | Fixing bugs is pita |
| 22:17.33 | JeffM | not really |
| 22:17.38 | KingRobot | Sometimes ;) |
| 22:17.39 | JeffM | it's not a good thing for a student to do |
| 22:17.46 | JeffM | and we should be able to fix our own bugs :) |
| 22:17.51 | KingRobot | Depends on the student. |
| 22:18.06 | JeffM | personaly I think that idea is the epidomy of the "SOC Crutch" |
| 22:18.13 | KingRobot | Absolutely. |
| 22:18.30 | JeffM | I would really like to see bzworkbench made useable |
| 22:18.40 | JeffM | that has benifit now, even with our older releases |
| 22:20.27 | KingRobot | That looks like a potentially enormous project. |
| 22:20.39 | JeffM | the guts of the editor are done |
| 22:20.44 | JeffM | it was another project |
| 22:20.47 | KingRobot | ah |
| 22:20.51 | JeffM | this is just getting the UI to work |
| 22:21.13 | JeffM | basicly we have the major parts of the editor, it just has a crap GUI and needs a couple more object types finished up |
| 22:21.53 | KingRobot | Hmm |
| 22:22.23 | KingRobot | What powers the graphics backend? |
| 22:22.29 | *** join/#bzflag leeguy92 (n=lee@host86-168-47-9.range86-168.btcentralplus.com) |
| 22:22.34 | KingRobot | Is it the same code from bzflag itself? |
| 22:22.39 | JeffM | of the editor, its using OSG and openGL |
| 22:22.40 | JeffM | no |
| 22:22.48 | leeguy92 | hi, all. congrats on teh gsoc and all'a that... |
| 22:22.52 | JeffM | bzflag's code is just raw GL strewn everywhere |
| 22:22.52 | leeguy92 | wutever :-/ |
| 22:23.03 | KingRobot | yeah, I've seen it |
| 22:23.13 | leeguy92 | has seen it also :p |
| 22:23.13 | JeffM | that's another possible project, cleaning up the bzflag graphics code and getting it all seperated |
| 22:23.20 | JeffM | that'd be a good thing |
| 22:23.29 | JeffM | that'd get us ready to replace it with a real engine |
| 22:23.36 | KingRobot | com is way down on the list. :( |
| 22:23.43 | JeffM | com? |
| 22:23.56 | KingRobot | cross server communication |
| 22:24.06 | JeffM | yeah it's not that important right now |
| 22:24.25 | JeffM | our goals are things that contribute to fixing existing problems, cleaning up the code, and getting tward a release |
| 22:24.33 | JeffM | cross server chat is "meh" IMHO |
| 22:24.39 | JeffM | I've got a plugin that does it via IRC |
| 22:24.43 | KingRobot | I built up a demo mashup a while back, but set it to the side when you'd mentioned how you wanted redunancy |
| 22:25.09 | KingRobot | Although I still don't see how a couple of synchronized servers is any less redundant than IRC ;) |
| 22:25.24 | leeguy92 | KingRobot: <PLUG url="http://sourceforge.net/projects/bzlinker/"> i has done that :) </PLUG> |
| 22:25.24 | JeffM | yeah it's all part of something larger (better user management, lobby system, friends lists, etc..) |
| 22:25.43 | leeguy92 | KingRobot: but i agree with JeffM that it is hacky :) |
| 22:25.58 | JeffM | IRC isn't bad for chat backend, but it has it's own set of issues |
| 22:26.19 | JeffM | I'd rather not go into the realm of cross server chat untill we have the rest of the usermanagement problems solved, etc.. |
| 22:26.34 | JeffM | since whatever we do will relly on those services heavaly |
| 22:28.36 | KingRobot | leeguy92: interesting - how does yours work? |
| 22:29.12 | KingRobot | Multiple display support; should not be done until the graphics is re-worked. |
| 22:29.34 | JeffM | probably |
| 22:29.42 | JeffM | supporting it in the SLD platform would be dificult |
| 22:29.43 | leeguy92 | KingRobot: it connects to a number of servers simultaneously, and relays what it hears |
| 22:30.06 | leeguy92 | KingRobot: all a user has to do is type !globalchat 1, and they can send and receive to the "global channel" |
| 22:30.19 | JeffM | my IRC plugin uses server side players and just has the servers connect to channels |
| 22:30.22 | KingRobot | leeguy92: ugh |
| 22:30.38 | leeguy92 | KingRobot: making the best of a bad situation :) |
| 22:30.42 | JeffM | IRC players look like observers to bzflag, and bzflag players look like IRC users to IRC |
| 22:30.49 | KingRobot | yeah, mine works more or less along JeffM's lines; it's an actual plugin |
| 22:31.00 | KingRobot | except it runs it's own server for the relaying |
| 22:31.01 | JeffM | no special commands needed |
| 22:31.14 | JeffM | I happend to have an IRC lib handy, so I just reused that ;) |
| 22:31.14 | *** join/#bzflag randomparticle (n=Apex@about/essy/snick/randomparticle) |
| 22:31.33 | KingRobot | no special coincidence, I'm sure ;) |
| 22:31.47 | JeffM | libIRC ain't nothing if not easy to use |
| 22:31.55 | KingRobot | :) |
| 22:31.58 | leeguy92 | is that libircclient? |
| 22:32.08 | KingRobot | my plugin could also tell which server a given player was at |
| 22:32.09 | JeffM | the lib is just called LibIRC |
| 22:32.12 | leeguy92 | hmm |
| 22:32.14 | KingRobot | -> /whereis playername |
| 22:32.15 | leeguy92 | different then |
| 22:32.32 | KingRobot | (in realtime) |
| 22:32.33 | JeffM | yeah I didn't go too far |
| 22:32.48 | JeffM | if I was going to extend it, I'd ahve the server info be set in the user's motto |
| 22:33.01 | JeffM | then you could see if it was an IRC user or another server user, etc.. |
| 22:33.05 | KingRobot | sure |
| 22:33.11 | JeffM | it was just a proof of concept |
| 22:33.23 | JeffM | it would need a /command to tell it to join the channel from another server, etc.. |
| 22:33.47 | JeffM | but like I say, I'd want to see about putting that in some kind of larger scale user management system |
| 22:33.54 | JeffM | not shoehorn it into the game |
| 22:34.04 | JeffM | cross server chat is really only usefull with a friends list |
| 22:34.23 | brlcad | JeffM: interesting, the bugs idea was actually added based on things you said earlier |
| 22:34.28 | JeffM | and for that I'd want to add a "friends" tab to the chat inteface, and move all that cross server thing there. |
| 22:34.36 | JeffM | brlcad: it was? |
| 22:34.39 | brlcad | yup |
| 22:34.54 | JeffM | well it as a soc project like that was not what I was invisoning |
| 22:35.02 | JeffM | I'd move bzworkbench up that |
| 22:35.11 | JeffM | that's best bang for buck for our users, release or no release |
| 22:35.12 | brlcad | I actually disagree though that it wouldn't make for a good student project -- fixing bugs is one of the best ways to get introduced to a code base |
| 22:35.34 | JeffM | brlcad: it could, but they'd have to give us a list of exactly what bugs they intend to fix |
| 22:35.43 | JeffM | I'd want to see a good solid plan |
| 22:35.49 | JeffM | not just "well what should I do now?" |
| 22:36.08 | JeffM | or we'll get anothr bug on our hands ;) |
| 22:36.09 | brlcad | not like it has to be those core bug issues, if someone worked on every little bug that we don't care so much about, they'd still become tightly familiar with the code |
| 22:36.23 | brlcad | oh hell yeah, I think that'd be required |
| 22:36.30 | brlcad | not just "I'm gonna fix bugs" |
| 22:36.34 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:36.36 | JeffM | we'll see |
| 22:36.37 | brlcad | I think the idea even says it has to be specific |
| 22:36.43 | KingRobot | You think GSoC would even accept such an app? |
| 22:36.46 | JeffM | it's just not going to be as easy IMHO as others could be |
| 22:36.52 | JeffM | KingRobot: it would have to be VERY detailed |
| 22:36.57 | KingRobot | Seem like they like bigger projects, rather than fix bug abcdefg |
| 22:37.00 | JeffM | specific lists and such |
| 22:37.04 | brlcad | KingRobot: the orgs decide what is accepted project-wise |
| 22:37.07 | brlcad | code is code |
| 22:37.19 | KingRobot | brlcad: yes, I know, hence the question |
| 22:37.27 | brlcad | you mean whether we would then? |
| 22:37.28 | KingRobot | (re orgs deciding) |
| 22:37.36 | JeffM | plans on just rewriting it all in C# |
| 22:37.39 | KingRobot | lol |
| 22:37.42 | KingRobot | truly? |
| 22:37.54 | JeffM | I would not call it bzflag, but sure |
| 22:38.00 | brlcad | I'd think it'd be a great project if the student had a decent detailed plan of attack and showed some strong competency (like fixing a few bugs for the patch submission part) |
| 22:38.04 | JeffM | if the experiments work out that is :) |
| 22:38.44 | KingRobot | brlcad: I think your problem is that students skilled enough to apply for that project would be more interested in other work. |
| 22:38.46 | JeffM | yeah the student for the bug fix proejct would have to show themselve to be highly motivated and very social |
| 22:39.04 | Erroneous | doesn't think anyone would apply for that anyway |
| 22:39.10 | brlcad | KingRobot: depends on the student -- I *love* refactoring work |
| 22:39.14 | leeguy92 | JeffM: funny, that doesnt sound like me at all |
| 22:39.22 | JeffM | ohh people will apply Erroneous but it'll be "I'll fix bugs" |
| 22:39.27 | JeffM | cus we get those EVERY year |
| 22:39.36 | leeguy92 | except the motivated bit, which i am. |
| 22:39.45 | JeffM | leeguy92: not everything has to revolve around you ;) |
| 22:39.52 | leeguy92 | JeffM: IT DOESNT? |
| 22:39.56 | leeguy92 | :( |
| 22:40.42 | Erroneous | JeffM: I mean, serious appplications. As a student it would scare me to death...no way to know what the size of the project really is until you're already most of the way done with it. |
| 22:40.57 | JeffM | Erroneous: of that I total agree |
| 22:41.15 | JeffM | brlcad: you gonna remake the mentor channel? |
| 22:41.15 | KingRobot | Erroneous: If you have enough debugging experience, you should be able to get a handle on it. |
| 22:41.34 | Erroneous | KingRobot: some of those bugs are in my code, KingRobot...and I have no idea how hard they are ;) |
| 22:41.46 | JeffM | well yeah it would be good to get a student to not be scared of the friggin debuger for once ;) |
| 22:42.01 | leeguy92 | hearts gdb |
| 22:42.11 | Erroneous | that would be pretty much mandatory for that task :) |
| 22:42.32 | JeffM | I think this year for patch requirements we need to do assignments |
| 22:42.35 | JeffM | not just let them pick anything |
| 22:42.36 | Erroneous | printf is not a substitute for a debugger people! |
| 22:42.45 | KingRobot | Erroneous: Well take me for example; I've got the experience; I run my own open source projects, have submitted patches for other, even debugging. |
| 22:42.54 | JeffM | pick anything has not worked out well, as students tend to try to find the "Best" thing |
| 22:43.01 | KingRobot | Erroneous: But I'm just not sure if I'd want to apply for a project like that.... |
| 22:43.32 | Erroneous | JeffM: we'd have to make it very clear that you're welcome to throw them back if you aren't comfortable with what you're assigned |
| 22:43.41 | JeffM | Erroneous: yes |
| 22:43.47 | JeffM | we need to make a pool of tasks |
| 22:43.49 | KingRobot | leeguy92: gdb ftw :) |
| 22:43.49 | JeffM | then give them out |
| 22:43.58 | JeffM | and let them swap them if they don't like them (within reason) |
| 22:44.05 | JeffM | then at least they are TALKING to us :) |
| 22:44.14 | Erroneous | true enough |
| 22:44.16 | leeguy92 | is more of an embedded guy....sorta. so, maybe i would port(completely reinvent) bzflag to the touchbook. |
| 22:44.22 | JeffM | see how they handle stuff they don't get :) |
| 22:44.32 | KingRobot | JeffM: You have problems with students not communicating? |
| 22:44.39 | JeffM | some of them |
| 22:44.44 | KingRobot | JeffM: Lame. |
| 22:44.45 | Wyk3d | what worries me is more the part about actually reproducing bugs .. the bug lists aren't exactly up to date are they aren't very detailed .. it's easy to get lost on something that seems easy to fix only to find out that it's already fixed or something |
| 22:44.55 | JeffM | a common trait of students is that they treat SOC like a class assignment |
| 22:44.56 | JeffM | not a job |
| 22:45.06 | JeffM | so they go off, do the work and come back with a massive code dump |
| 22:45.10 | JeffM | that is not how we work |
| 22:45.15 | KingRobot | JeffM: Most of them haven't had real jobs before... |
| 22:45.25 | KingRobot | Wyk3d: Welcome to debugging ;) |
| 22:45.27 | Erroneous | Wyk3d: sure, that's why I siad it'd have to be clear that they could send them back |
| 22:45.32 | JeffM | KingRobot: indeed, dosn't mean it isn't time to learn :) |
| 22:45.49 | Erroneous | if you get a bug that's already fixed, come back to us and say "dudes, it's already fixed!" |
| 22:46.12 | JeffM | Erroneous: I'm even thinking of a tasks that are made up "Go and make the shots bounce wrong", etc.. |
| 22:46.21 | Erroneous | ah, that's not a bad idea |
| 22:46.21 | JeffM | just so we know they can find code and take direction |
| 22:46.22 | Wyk3d | KingRobot: yes, i've done a lot of debugging on other projects and my motto has always been that if you can reproduce it it's as good as fixed, but reproducing it is the hardest part |
| 22:46.43 | KingRobot | Wyk3d: Agreed |
| 22:47.31 | leeguy92 | Wyk3d: agreed |
| 22:47.37 | Wyk3d | ofcourse, you can fix bugs by just proof reading all the code but meh :-/ |
| 22:48.03 | JeffM | Erroneous: then we can make tasks in all the various areas, and give them ones that are in the area of there application, (client, server, etc..) |
| 22:48.11 | leeguy92 | Wyk3d: hoomans suck at that, i find. ptr = NULL ptr == NULL. <--would you notice that? |
| 22:48.23 | JeffM | "make the server curse out a new player when they join" |
| 22:48.42 | KingRobot | leeguy92: Wasn't there a rootkit kernel hack someone tried to commit like that once? |
| 22:48.46 | JeffM | leeguy92: your compiler dosn't warn you abou that? ;) |
| 22:49.03 | KingRobot | JeffM: lol @ curse at player... |
| 22:49.27 | leeguy92 | JeffM: nope :p |
| 22:49.39 | JeffM | sounds like you just need better tools |
| 22:49.40 | leeguy92 | JeffM: i take it that is what -Wall is for |
| 22:49.46 | JeffM | mp |
| 22:49.46 | leeguy92 | and -Wextra |
| 22:49.47 | JeffM | no |
| 22:50.01 | JeffM | I just hit F7 and it asks me if that was intended or not :) |
| 22:50.04 | JeffM | and it never is |
| 22:50.19 | leeguy92 | hmm |
| 22:50.27 | leeguy92 | my tools cost me 0 moneys. |
| 22:50.30 | leeguy92 | :p |
| 22:50.34 | JeffM | so did mine ;) |
| 22:50.38 | JeffM | VC EE FTW |
| 22:50.44 | KingRobot | leeguy92: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/11/07/linux_kernel_backdoor_blocked/ |
| 22:50.48 | leeguy92 | :p my tools are free |
| 22:51.06 | JeffM | leeguy92: you know MS has free versions of the compiler right? |
| 22:51.11 | JeffM | has for a while now |
| 22:51.18 | leeguy92 | JeffM: free as in freedom? |
| 22:51.22 | Erroneous | more importantly, you can modify your tools...he can't :) |
| 22:51.23 | JeffM | who cares, they work |
| 22:51.27 | JeffM | true |
| 22:51.30 | JeffM | but do you ever? ;) |
| 22:51.30 | leeguy92 | Erroneous: exactly |
| 22:51.36 | KingRobot | leeguy92: free enough http://www.microsoft.com/Express/ |
| 22:51.37 | JeffM | when was the last time you moded GCC? |
| 22:51.46 | leeguy92 | JeffM: i would modify everything if i had the time |
| 22:51.55 | JeffM | you didn't answer my question |
| 22:52.07 | leeguy92 | JeffM: never, cos it takes too long to recompile :) |
| 22:52.25 | leeguy92 | wants to set up gcc |
| 22:52.28 | leeguy92 | *distcc |
| 22:52.40 | JeffM | heh, so yeah, free enough to get the job done |
| 22:52.49 | JeffM | computers are tools, not political statements |
| 22:52.59 | JeffM | at some point you just have to get the job done |
| 22:53.45 | JeffM | if you want to let your personal socio-political statemetns get in the way of getting the job done, then good luck finding a job later ;) |
| 22:54.05 | JeffM | and see if I redid it all in C#, you all could use monodeveloper, it's free :) |
| 22:54.14 | JeffM | tho it does need a debuger |
| 22:54.14 | leeguy92 | JeffM: but FOSS makes me feel warm and fuzzy. <------help plz, im running out of args(and not the parameter type) |
| 22:54.34 | JeffM | leeguy92: does warm and fuzzy pay the bills? |
| 22:54.42 | leeguy92 | JeffM: it can |
| 22:54.49 | Erroneous | "I like it" is a fine argument for hobby software. |
| 22:54.49 | leeguy92 | pays a bill with a teddy bear |
| 22:54.50 | leeguy92 | see |
| 22:54.56 | Erroneous | you don't really need anything more than that |
| 22:54.58 | JeffM | Erroneous: quite true for hopbby |
| 22:55.06 | JeffM | SOC is a job tho :) |
| 22:55.13 | JeffM | not that we'd force anyone to use a compiler |
| 22:55.27 | leeguy92 | but really, what is wrong with gcc for proper dev? its JUST a compiler. |
| 22:55.36 | JeffM | I woudl expect them to not shy away from tools that could help tho, just cus the don't happent o like them. |
| 22:55.40 | Erroneous | nothing wrong with it |
| 22:55.45 | JeffM | leeguy92: nothing if you know how to work wiht it |
| 22:55.57 | JeffM | I wasn't trying to say VC is the greatest thign since sliced bread |
| 22:56.12 | JeffM | just that sometimes you have to use tools you may not like to get stuff done in the workplace :) |
| 22:56.17 | brlcad | JeffM: already there |
| 22:56.17 | leeguy92 | JeffM: i knos how to work with GCC:p |
| 22:56.21 | JeffM | like when I have to use boundchecker :/ |
| 22:56.27 | Erroneous | JeffM is just uncannily sensitive about people making political statements without realizing it :) |
| 22:56.28 | JeffM | brlcad: I do not recall the name |
| 22:56.33 | brlcad | yes you do |
| 22:56.36 | leeguy92 | Erroneous: i noticed :) |
| 22:56.36 | brlcad | think blog |
| 22:56.41 | JeffM | ohh yeah |
| 22:56.43 | brlcad | :) |
| 22:57.08 | leeguy92 | bzflag on an FPGA.....hmm.... |
| 22:57.29 | JeffM | leeguy92: and you can probably just turn that one warning on not all of em:) |
| 22:57.40 | leeguy92 | looks through a man page |
| 22:57.44 | JeffM | gcc has a lot of good stuff, just some is off by default |
| 22:57.46 | leeguy92 | does VC have a man page? |
| 22:57.48 | Erroneous | as far as we're concerned, you may use any tools that you have legal access to and that let you get the job done within an acceptable timetable |
| 22:57.52 | JeffM | leeguy92: F1 |
| 22:58.03 | leeguy92 | JeffM: hmm |
| 22:58.13 | JeffM | Erroneous: unless it's dev C++, then I get to hit you |
| 22:58.14 | leeguy92 | IDEs are a kinda love-hate thing with me |
| 22:58.20 | KingRobot | JeffM: Yeah, gcc is pretty lame without a set of tools to go with it... autotools, or better yet XCode FTW. |
| 22:58.24 | Erroneous | leeguy92: it's called MSDN, but yes, it has full docs |
| 22:58.30 | KingRobot | JeffM: Where is the source to bzworkbench now? |
| 22:58.32 | leeguy92 | KingRobot: u talkin about xcode? |
| 22:58.34 | leeguy92 | hides |
| 22:58.37 | JeffM | both online and local |
| 22:58.43 | KingRobot | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:58.44 | JeffM | KingRobot: in svn |
| 22:58.50 | JeffM | bzworkbench dir under trunk |
| 22:59.01 | leeguy92 | KingRobot: i dnt think Jeff likes XCode(i asked before i think) |
| 22:59.10 | JeffM | I have used XCode |
| 22:59.11 | JeffM | it is ok |
| 22:59.24 | leeguy92 | lives in constant fear of JeffM |
| 22:59.27 | JeffM | bzflag isn't setup with a real xcode peoject |
| 22:59.32 | JeffM | so it's a little hard to work with |
| 22:59.38 | JeffM | but I've built my own projects and used it |
| 22:59.53 | JeffM | I've even made makefiles that work :) |
| 22:59.53 | KingRobot | JeffM: yeah, it's definitely not without it's downsides |
| 23:00.04 | KingRobot | JeffM: but what IDE isn't :) |
| 23:00.04 | JeffM | KingRobot: it's just different then I'm used to |
| 23:00.19 | JeffM | other then the lack of a debuger I'm very happy with monodevelop |
| 23:00.20 | Erroneous | leeguy92: fearing some dude on the internet is probably not a productive response ;) |
| 23:00.39 | leeguy92 | Erroneous: neither is this: WAKAWAKAWAKAWAKAWAKA |
| 23:00.47 | KingRobot | JeffM: Have you seen the xcode project for Warzone? |
| 23:00.55 | KingRobot | JeffM: There is a pretty piece of work. |
| 23:01.02 | JeffM | KingRobot: I no longer own a mac |
| 23:01.03 | JeffM | I sold it |
| 23:01.05 | brlcad | it only takes a few minutes to set up a project like bz with xcode properly |
| 23:01.10 | leeguy92 | there are some really nice FOSS tools, though. imho. like eclipse. (codeblocks.......um.......well....it's.......hmmm). |
| 23:01.20 | KingRobot | brlcad: No, it takes longer to do it right. |
| 23:01.24 | Erroneous | is not an eclipse fan |
| 23:01.31 | brlcad | just a pita to maintain as a separate build environment |
| 23:01.34 | Erroneous | bzworkbench is set up for eclipse builds though |
| 23:01.42 | brlcad | KingRobot: not when you've done it several dozen times |
| 23:01.44 | brlcad | just tedius |
| 23:02.00 | leeguy92 | Erroneous: eclipse sucks for C++ dev, i wont deny. but for java.....nothin beats it imho..... PLUS, ITS WRITTEN IN JAVA!!!! |
| 23:02.03 | JeffM | is not a fan of eclipse fans |
| 23:02.17 | JeffM | or get fans |
| 23:02.18 | Erroneous | leeguy92: you say "it's written in Java" like that's a good thing... |
| 23:02.20 | KingRobot | highfives JeffM |
| 23:02.21 | leeguy92 | is not a fan of c++ |
| 23:02.22 | JeffM | them's people is scary |
| 23:02.25 | brlcad | and a bit of hyperbole, few minutes == a couple hours in this instance :) |
| 23:02.30 | leeguy92 | C > C++ |
| 23:02.38 | leeguy92 | C > java |
| 23:02.42 | KingRobot | brlcad: Hmm - you should make one for bz like warzone's then. |
| 23:02.49 | leeguy92 | D > a kick in the face |
| 23:02.49 | JeffM | leeguy92: you do know that bzflag is writen in C++ right? |
| 23:02.56 | leeguy92 | JeffM: yes :) |
| 23:02.59 | brlcad | KingRobot: I was the one that stopped maintaining bz's |
| 23:03.02 | brlcad | it's duplicative work |
| 23:03.09 | JeffM | leeguy92: you arn't really helping your chances man, honestly |
| 23:03.19 | leeguy92 | JeffM: im busy this summer anyway :) |
| 23:03.20 | brlcad | made xcode just call the autotools :) |
| 23:03.27 | leeguy92 | operator overloading is really abused in STL imho. |
| 23:03.35 | KingRobot | brlcad: ah |
| 23:03.41 | JeffM | does not think your h is o |
| 23:03.59 | JeffM | or reverse that |
| 23:04.02 | leeguy92 | yup |
| 23:04.03 | *** join/#bzflag Swigg (n=Default@bzflag/player/Swigg) |
| 23:04.05 | brlcad | KingRobot: if you wanted to maintain an xcode build and keep it up to date, I'd have no problem |
| 23:04.08 | JeffM | are tired |
| 23:04.09 | Erroneous | leeguy92: ever looked at managed c++? THAT is some operator overloading abuse right there :) |
| 23:04.18 | leeguy92 | Erroneous: damn right :p |
| 23:04.25 | brlcad | just *I'm* not going to maintain an xcode project for others given I don't use it |
| 23:04.28 | Erroneous | STL is nothing |
| 23:04.32 | KingRobot | JeffM: Where are you? |
| 23:04.33 | leeguy92 | damn vector iterators |
| 23:04.33 | brlcad | JeffM: le tired? |
| 23:04.35 | JeffM | KingRobot: if you are on a mac, I do belive there were some issues getting OSG to build on that platform, just so you know. |
| 23:04.39 | brlcad | so take a nap |
| 23:04.49 | JeffM | brlcad: then fire le missiles |
| 23:04.54 | brlcad | !!! :) |
| 23:04.54 | leeguy92 | damn cout << <---------it's a freaking bitshift operator...i mean....wtf |
| 23:05.12 | Erroneous | no, it's a stream redirection operator :) |
| 23:05.15 | leeguy92 | well...thats my opinion anyway |
| 23:05.20 | KingRobot | JeffM: I have a mac, not on it now... |
| 23:05.21 | Erroneous | just happens to look exactly like the bitshift operator |
| 23:05.22 | leeguy92 | Erroneous: IT IS A BITSHIFT OPERATOR! |
| 23:05.36 | Erroneous | please don't yell |
| 23:05.38 | Wyk3d | Erroneous: yeah, i mean why would anyone use a stream redirection operator for bitshift ? lame .. |
| 23:05.39 | brlcad | it's two less-than characters :) |
| 23:05.41 | leeguy92 | Erroneous: stream redirection is an illusion |
| 23:05.52 | JeffM | KingRobot: ok, just letting you know that the mac is the least test platform for that code IIRC |
| 23:05.55 | leeguy92 | it's all just bitshifting |
| 23:05.55 | Erroneous | a VERY convenient illusion :) |
| 23:06.00 | KingRobot | JeffM: Haven't built bzflag on it in since 2.0.8 I believe |
| 23:06.07 | leeguy92 | ;) |
| 23:06.13 | JeffM | linux and windows have had more work for bzworkbench |
| 23:06.38 | brlcad | bzwb works on mac |
| 23:06.46 | Erroneous | it needs to be able to build on everything anyway |
| 23:06.52 | leeguy92 | macs are better than pcs!!!!!! |
| 23:06.54 | leeguy92 | hides |
| 23:07.02 | leeguy92 | runs off giggling |
| 23:07.06 | Erroneous | and it wouldn't hurt to have someone who is familiar with mac interface guidelines take a look at it |
| 23:07.11 | *** kick/#bzflag [leeguy92!n=Jeff@bzflag/projectadmin/JeffM] by JeffM (JeffM) |
| 23:07.29 | KingRobot | JeffM: tri booting Vista/Debian/Leo on the PC, and then have a PPC Mac running Tiger. |
| 23:07.35 | JeffM | yeah it needs to , I'm just saying that I belive I recall more poblems on that platform then others, if he was going to try it there |
| 23:07.45 | KingRobot | JeffM: So I have a access to all three platforms. |
| 23:07.50 | JeffM | cool |
| 23:07.58 | brlcad | JeffM: the argument that linux and windows get more testing is an argument to specifically use mac actually for portability anyways |
| 23:08.16 | Erroneous | it's ok if people run into problems when they're getting set up, that's why we have an IRC channel :) |
| 23:08.26 | JeffM | brlcad: sure, but if he has access to another system just to SEE how it works initaly, it may be easier |
| 23:08.32 | JeffM | forwarned is forarmed, etc.. |
| 23:10.45 | KingRobot | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:11.11 | Erroneous | no |
| 23:11.15 | JeffM | personaly or as a project? |
| 23:11.25 | JeffM | as a project svn works just fine for us |
| 23:11.27 | Erroneous | read that as "y'all" |
| 23:11.37 | JeffM | and I don't think SF offers much of anything else |
| 23:11.41 | KingRobot | as a project, not that it makes any difference |
| 23:11.44 | JeffM | defenatly ain't going back to CVS :) |
| 23:11.58 | JeffM | if you say "get" I go get a baseball bat ;) |
| 23:11.58 | KingRobot | JeffM: They just started offering git as an option |
| 23:12.05 | JeffM | gets his bat |
| 23:12.18 | Erroneous | KingRobot: we are not planning on changing from svn, no |
| 23:12.23 | KingRobot | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:12.24 | JeffM | if we swaped to git, I'd never check out the code again ;) |
| 23:12.27 | Erroneous | regardless of the options |
| 23:12.44 | KingRobot | Personally I like SVN |
| 23:13.02 | KingRobot | Hence the question |
| 23:13.03 | Erroneous | git is a nice system for some development methodologies. we don't think it would work well for us. |
| 23:13.13 | JeffM | Git zealouts scare me. |
| 23:13.25 | Erroneous | so we'll stick to SVN until something that is "SVN done right" replaces it |
| 23:13.41 | JeffM | Erroneous: you mean svn 3.0 ? |
| 23:13.47 | Erroneous | yeah, something like that |
| 23:14.05 | JeffM | looks like someone is finaly staring a tort git |
| 23:14.21 | Erroneous | doesn't surprise me |
| 23:14.24 | Wyk3d | gitextensions is a bit further along actually |
| 23:14.52 | JeffM | they need a supertort that has all the version controlls in one interface :0 |
| 23:14.54 | JeffM | :) |
| 23:15.01 | JeffM | since it's identeical for most of the stuff |
| 23:15.10 | Erroneous | heh |
| 23:15.20 | Erroneous | TortoiseVSS? |
| 23:15.22 | JeffM | I mean what, you have a log, a merge, etc.. |
| 23:15.29 | JeffM | VSS is dead |
| 23:15.30 | Wyk3d | you can't really put git under the same hat with anything really .. just messes with your head if you try |
| 23:15.31 | JeffM | officaly |
| 23:15.52 | Erroneous | yeah, I know. just poking the dead horse with a stick. |
| 23:16.09 | JeffM | let the horse decompose |
| 23:16.32 | Erroneous | Wyk3d: I dunno, you could group it with other DVCSes without too much trouble |
| 23:16.51 | Wyk3d | the problem is the terminology |
| 23:17.33 | Wyk3d | revert is undo changes in most VCSs while revert in git is make a new commit that reverses another one in git for example |
| 23:17.51 | JeffM | Wyk3d: that's what SVN Does IIRC |
| 23:17.55 | JeffM | so you don't loose history |
| 23:18.10 | JeffM | you revert to a version, then commit it on top |
| 23:18.38 | JeffM | cus you may need to revert the revert :) |
| 23:18.39 | Wyk3d | well "svn revert" is not for "reverting to a version" |
| 23:18.48 | Wyk3d | you "update to" a revision in SVN |
| 23:19.12 | JeffM | I'm sure somone could come up with decent terms for a graphical client :) |
| 23:19.18 | JeffM | that would work for em all |
| 23:19.21 | Erroneous | is just glad there's no more "cvs admin -j" :) |
| 23:19.33 | JeffM | you'd just describe the action, not the underlying command |
| 23:20.23 | Wyk3d | another problem would be ofcourse that you'd be confined to an intersection of the features of what you want to support |
| 23:21.05 | Erroneous | you could easily have different interface choices when working in different kinds of repositories to avoid that problem |
| 23:21.40 | JeffM | yeah dynamic interfaces arn't that hard |
| 23:21.49 | Wyk3d | true .. |
| 23:21.53 | JeffM | once you get a repo, you can talor the functionality for that repo |
| 23:22.04 | JeffM | the inital "get" would just have options based on the repo type |
| 23:22.42 | JeffM | cus you are never mixing systems in the scope of the same repo, cus that would be ... wierd |
| 23:23.13 | Wyk3d | though if it's a dynamic interface it's not so far off from using two different tools, each with its own interface, with some resemblances like the Tort* family |
| 23:23.47 | JeffM | Wyk3d: they take up too much room with there own menus for the functions that are equal enough |
| 23:23.59 | JeffM | and like they can all use the same merge interface, etc.. |
| 23:24.14 | JeffM | the dynamic functions would be a very small subset of the total interface |
| 23:24.26 | JeffM | and like if I am in SVN repo, I don't want to see any CVS interface |
| 23:24.44 | Erroneous | thinks shell extensions are overrated anyway |
| 23:24.52 | JeffM | where if I have them installed seperately, CVS is always there wondering if I want to add my svn repo to a CVS repo :) |
| 23:25.24 | JeffM | thinks version controll should be a core feature of explorers |
| 23:25.41 | JeffM | drive space is cheap, gimme history on everything :) |
| 23:26.08 | JeffM | if it happens to be a remote VCS that is provided by an installed service, so bit :) |
| 23:26.10 | JeffM | be it |
| 23:26.43 | Wyk3d | that's basically what you'd get if you'd put your entire drive in a git repo :) |
| 23:26.51 | Wyk3d | versioned file system |
| 23:26.58 | JeffM | or any other VCS |
| 23:27.10 | JeffM | be nice if the file system allowed for multiple providers |
| 23:27.34 | *** join/#bzflag Will07c5 (n=william@63.252.66.252) |
| 23:27.41 | Will07c5 | hey |
| 23:28.08 | JeffM | hello |
| 23:28.11 | Will07c5 | I'm a student who might be interesting in applying for summer of code to work on bzflag |
| 23:28.17 | JeffM | how's it going |
| 23:28.26 | Will07c5 | pretty good |
| 23:28.42 | Will07c5 | lots of homework but I have springbreak next week |
| 23:29.15 | JeffM | cool |
| 23:29.41 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (n=bryjen@cpe-75-81-243-228.we.res.rr.com) |
| 23:29.41 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 23:30.39 | brlcad | JeffM: they offer three or four other scm options now |
| 23:30.47 | JeffM | fun |
| 23:30.57 | brlcad | their new app framework has made a lot of things more simple to support |
| 23:32.13 | Will07c5 | anyway that's all I have to say for now :) I should have time tomorrow to think about any ideas and bounce them off you guys |
| 23:32.25 | brlcad | Erroneous: funny how one quickly forgets such cringeworthy beasts like cvs admin |
| 23:32.28 | JeffM | have you read our wiki page on it Will07c5 ? |
| 23:32.45 | Will07c5 | I've skimmed the list of ideas, yes |
| 23:33.41 | Will07c5 | I thought the "Modularization of OpenGL logic" is something I could potentially do |
| 23:33.48 | JeffM | cool |
| 23:33.59 | brlcad | fantabulous |
| 23:34.26 | Will07c5 | I have some basic opengl knowledge and I am pretty good with C++ |
| 23:35.55 | Will07c5 | anyway nice talking to you guys :) |
| 23:35.58 | *** join/#bzflag Qew (n=qew@82-69-126-225.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 23:36.00 | Will07c5 | I have to go |
| 23:36.00 | JeffM | have fun |
| 23:39.40 | brlcad | oops, ignore that JeffM |
| 23:39.48 | brlcad | (you'll figure out what I mean later) :) |
| 23:39.55 | brlcad | was just testing something |
| 23:40.10 | JeffM | dude I'll TOTALY be a double admin ;) |
| 23:45.34 | brlcad | :) |
| 23:58.56 | *** join/#bzflag jorgenpt (n=jorgenpt@tjer.no) |