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| 05:29.58 | JeffM | finds is very wrong that a game woudl choose to use "now with nut shots" as a marketing feature. |
| 05:32.25 | ruskie | lol |
| 05:32.31 | ruskie | sounds like worms |
| 05:33.11 | JeffM | "combat arms" |
| 05:33.15 | JeffM | some fps |
| 05:37.24 | a_meteorite | combat arms is quite fun |
| 05:38.35 | Pimpi | did anyone ever implement shortcut functionality for in game communication? |
| 05:38.44 | JeffM | don't think so |
| 05:41.38 | Pimpi | i thought about something like shortcuts, starting with a dot. like ".l" expanding to "watch your language, please" |
| 05:41.55 | JeffM | why not just use the existing bind system? |
| 05:41.55 | blast007 | Pimpi: quick keys aren't enough? |
| 05:41.59 | JeffM | yeah |
| 05:42.00 | blast007 | or that |
| 05:42.26 | JeffM | if an existing system won't do what you want, expanding it to make it work is better then adding a new system. |
| 05:42.41 | Pimpi | quick keys? |
| 05:43.34 | blast007 | Pimpi: yeah, last thing in the key mapping page |
| 05:43.46 | Pimpi | takes a look |
| 05:43.46 | blast007 | s/page/menu/ |
| 05:46.23 | Pimpi | yes, thats near to what i'm searching. didn't know it was existing. I't not very flexible or intentional though |
| 05:46.38 | JeffM | then expand it |
| 05:46.51 | Pimpi | JeffM: what is the bind system? |
| 05:46.57 | JeffM | umm |
| 05:47.05 | JeffM | the thing that makes keys work |
| 05:47.17 | Pimpi | ah, ic. seen that |
| 05:47.24 | JeffM | everything else on that menu basicly ;) |
| 05:48.21 | Pimpi | never really went into the client's code |
| 05:49.25 | JeffM | well you said you were pondering some expansion feature, that would involve the client code ;) |
| 05:50.43 | Pimpi | the fact that i didn't look into client code doesn't mean that i can't do it now ;) |
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| 20:27.51 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03Adrianrf 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5779 10/w/Main_Page: thinking of a first-time visitor/would-be BZFlag player: why wouldn't there be a prominent link to the Quick Start page? |
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| 20:32.36 | Will07c5 | finally a break from homework! |
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| 20:34.47 | Will07c5 | I guess I'll just start work on whatever I had planned for community bonding |
| 20:36.24 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03Adrianrf 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5780 10/w/Getting_Help: /* Quickstart */ For helping a general audience, simple and direct beats verbose and indirect every time. |
| 21:02.59 | JefferyM | Will07c5, ok, I'll get the glue |
| 21:05.01 | Will07c5 | hehe |
| 21:05.12 | Cygal | Will07c5: what did you plan for community bonding? ^_^ |
| 21:05.41 | Thumper_ | permanently fastening players into their tanks? |
| 21:06.08 | Will07c5 | well I have making a few bzw maps as the first thing on my agenda |
| 21:10.40 | Will07c5 | Cygal: what do you have planned? |
| 21:10.41 | JefferyM | that is a good thing to do |
| 21:11.03 | JefferyM | I'd also like you to take a look at FLTK and figure out if it sucks or not |
| 21:11.11 | JefferyM | but make some maps first |
| 21:11.27 | Will07c5 | ok that can be next on my list of things to do |
| 21:12.05 | JefferyM | I just don't want the first week of the project to be "well... this sucks, lets redo it". I'd rather know if we want to redo it beforehand :) |
| 21:12.29 | JefferyM | what OS are you on? you should try some of the existing editors |
| 21:12.56 | Will07c5 | the computer I am talking to you from is linux but I have a windows computer as well |
| 21:13.11 | JefferyM | ok, then I'd take a look at the windows bzedit |
| 21:13.19 | JefferyM | a lot of people use it (or at least try to) |
| 21:13.19 | Cygal | I had planned to figure out what community bonding whas :) More seriously, I had planned to start fixin bugs (but I have other real-life things to do) |
| 21:13.21 | Will07c5 | ok sure |
| 21:13.54 | JefferyM | Cygal, yeah your project has some special issues regarding the bonding period |
| 21:14.12 | JefferyM | what you may want to focus on for this time is just seeing if bugs duplicate |
| 21:14.18 | JefferyM | and making sure they are all recorded in the same place |
| 21:14.28 | Cygal | well |
| 21:14.33 | JefferyM | tracking down the reporters of bugs that don't dupe, etc.. |
| 21:14.34 | Will07c5 | should I post my proposal to my wiki user page? |
| 21:14.38 | JefferyM | that way you get to know the community |
| 21:14.40 | Cygal | I only added bugs that I did manage to duplicate |
| 21:14.42 | JefferyM | rather then just starting early |
| 21:14.50 | JefferyM | ok good |
| 21:15.02 | JefferyM | basicly just review the lists and see if we have all the data we need for them |
| 21:15.10 | JefferyM | that gets you talking to everyone etc.. |
| 21:15.18 | JefferyM | techincaly you arn't supposed to start work on the project till later |
| 21:15.26 | JefferyM | but since yours is bugs, that's harder to do |
| 21:15.38 | JefferyM | Will07c5, if you want to |
| 21:15.51 | JefferyM | Will07c5, I'd make a bzworkbench design doc on the wiki |
| 21:16.01 | JefferyM | cus it's not just your project, it's bzworkbench :) |
| 21:16.11 | Cygal | review the lists? check if I have all the data for the what? bugfixes? |
| 21:16.15 | JefferyM | yes |
| 21:16.28 | JefferyM | and not just YOU have the data, but is all the info recorded with the bug |
| 21:16.38 | JefferyM | so that we can compare your fixes to the bugs, etc... |
| 21:16.50 | JefferyM | basicly make sure our bug lists are in proper shape |
| 21:17.06 | JefferyM | like, I'm not sure we should have 2 bug lists |
| 21:17.10 | Cygal | so that only means update BUGS and the bugs tracker? |
| 21:17.11 | JefferyM | it's a little confusing |
| 21:17.15 | JefferyM | possibly |
| 21:17.16 | Cygal | it sure is |
| 21:17.24 | JefferyM | I'd see what Erroneous wants to do with it all |
| 21:17.41 | JefferyM | I'm not a fan of the BUGS file, since it dosn't really provide the same info as the bug tracker |
| 21:17.50 | JefferyM | but it is a lot more vissable |
| 21:18.45 | Erroneous | Will07c5: bzedit (for windows) runs quite well in wine if you don't want to switch machines |
| 21:18.52 | Cygal | can I have admin rights on the bugs tracker? |
| 21:19.06 | Erroneous | yes, you should already |
| 21:19.12 | JefferyM | Cygal, the problem with you fixing bugs right now is that we can't use those bugs you fix to rate you for google int he end |
| 21:19.19 | Cygal | oh, I'm not logged on |
| 21:19.20 | JefferyM | Cygal, yeah you shoudl have at least technician level |
| 21:19.35 | JefferyM | and that's enoug to edit and close, etc.. |
| 21:19.35 | Will07c5 | Erroneous: thanks I'll remember that |
| 21:19.44 | Cygal | okay, thanks |
| 21:20.05 | JefferyM | Will07c5, be warned, it is writen in MFC, so don't look at the code, or you will go blind. |
| 21:20.31 | Cygal | I wondered also if I should put the information I use myself for debugging publicly available (but it's probably useless..) |
| 21:20.31 | Will07c5 | heh I guess it is good I've never done anything with MFC |
| 21:20.43 | Erroneous | pft, we're only partly blind and we've looked at it :P |
| 21:21.04 | JefferyM | Erroneous, yeah but we have to wear glasses now |
| 21:22.00 | Will07c5 | JefferyM: I'll probably post my proposal to my user page for anybody who is curious and then modify it into an more appropriate form and put it under bzworkbench design doc |
| 21:22.13 | JefferyM | fair nuf |
| 21:22.43 | Erroneous | Cygal: the tracker is a better place to work than BUGS in general. You're welcome to get started trying to duplicate reported bugs...that'll help you get familiar with the community and the game. |
| 21:24.15 | Erroneous | Cygal: when there are bugs that you decide not to fix (out of scope, can't duplicate, or whatever) you should record details about why you skipped it along with any information that will help whoever runs across that bug in the future and wants to do something with it. |
| 21:24.17 | Cygal | in some cases, different bugs are reported in one bug report. Should I create X bug reports and close the first one? |
| 21:24.31 | Erroneous | I don't see any need to keep that information in cases where you actually fix the bug though ;) |
| 21:24.43 | Cygal | ok |
| 21:24.56 | Erroneous | Cygal: no, because there's no way to set the "reporter" field correctly |
| 21:25.01 | JefferyM | goes back to fixing handles |
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| 21:25.15 | Erroneous | if you fix part of it, leave a comment that you fixed part of it and not the other part |
| 21:25.43 | Erroneous | wishes people wouldn't make reports like that though |
| 21:26.43 | Cygal | Last question, does the community actually follows the bug tracker? I thought people only posted bugs, and never came back |
| 21:27.12 | JefferyM | most do that |
| 21:27.14 | JefferyM | some follow it |
| 21:27.19 | JefferyM | depends on the person |
| 21:27.47 | JefferyM | but for you it's more of the development community you want to get to know, not really the bug reporting community |
| 21:27.54 | JefferyM | cus they are wierd ;) |
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| 21:28.36 | Cygal | :p |
| 21:29.30 | Erroneous | the reporter gets an email when you change their bug |
| 21:29.53 | Erroneous | so very few people follow the entire tracker, but the reporter for any given bug is basically forced to follow their own bug ;) |
| 21:33.23 | Murielle | why a registrered callsigns are not protected on the game while they are on the forum for instance? I mean, that someone who does know the good password for a given callsign can impersonate it. Of course there is a "-" sign in front of the name. But wouldnt it be better that a non authentifed player couldnt use a registred callsign ? |
| 21:33.59 | Murielle | s/who does know/who doesnt know |
| 21:35.08 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03Will07c5 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5781 10/w/User:Will07c5: |
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| 21:40.19 | pacman87 | Murielle: i believe server operators have the option to disallow such players |
| 21:41.13 | trepan | makes links and text objects 'groupable' |
| 21:41.37 | temp_work | Murielle, the server owner can put the REQUIREIDENTIFY perm in to the VERIFIED group |
| 21:41.52 | Murielle | thank you |
| 21:42.33 | JefferyM | and not all servers use our userdatabase |
| 21:42.39 | Murielle | but this means that someone with a non registred callsign would not be able to join ? |
| 21:42.52 | JefferyM | there are options for that |
| 21:42.55 | JefferyM | you can allow reg only |
| 21:43.10 | JefferyM | or if a name is registered, it must e used registered |
| 21:43.19 | JefferyM | it's up to the owner |
| 21:44.16 | Murielle | ok |
| 21:44.46 | JefferyM | the default server setup dosn't apply any restrictions to names. |
| 21:45.19 | Murielle | wouldnt be better to add such restriction on registred callsign by default? |
| 21:45.30 | Murielle | ...just asking ... |
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| 21:45.43 | JefferyM | depends on what you mean by "better" |
| 21:46.01 | JefferyM | we generaly dont' tell people how to run their servers |
| 21:46.10 | JefferyM | not all of them are public |
| 21:46.29 | Murielle | better for people who registred the callsign |
| 21:46.35 | temp_work | if REQUIREIDENTIFY is in the VERIFIED group (and not in EVERYONE) then people can play as unregistered callsigns, but registered callsigns must identify before playing |
| 21:46.52 | JefferyM | if the server uses global auth you can just go and ghost them on join |
| 21:47.09 | JefferyM | the big thing is the user may not know the name is taken |
| 21:47.34 | JefferyM | so why should we punish them by default for something they arn't aware of |
| 21:47.39 | temp_work | this is someone impersonating "Alice D" |
| 21:47.47 | temp_work | it's on purpose... |
| 21:47.51 | JefferyM | then tell the admin |
| 21:47.54 | temp_work | yes |
| 21:47.56 | JefferyM | it's GOING to happen |
| 21:48.02 | JefferyM | there are jerks out there, sucks but it's true |
| 21:48.27 | Murielle | she is my sister, jeffm |
| 21:48.31 | JefferyM | I Know |
| 21:48.36 | JefferyM | and I'm sad by what happened |
| 21:48.59 | JefferyM | but that dosn't change how we choose things |
| 21:49.09 | JefferyM | the proect it'self has no say in how servers are run |
| 21:49.16 | JefferyM | proejct |
| 21:49.34 | JefferyM | it sucks that there are jerks out there, but it's not our job to protect everyone from everything |
| 21:49.46 | JefferyM | specialy at the cost of honest mistakes for new players. |
| 21:50.24 | JefferyM | if we really wanted to controll how games are played that much, we would not let anyone run a server, and we'd require registration to play. |
| 21:50.54 | JefferyM | I belive that if you use a reged name by default you are warned that the name is reged |
| 21:51.00 | JefferyM | but we don't dissallow it by default |
| 21:51.09 | JefferyM | the real owner can ghost you if they log in |
| 21:51.31 | Murielle | but Jeffm. If a new player takes a registred callsign, why not just add a string to its callsign automatically...as for irc ? |
| 21:51.33 | JefferyM | that allows people making honest misakes to be informed and change it later, and people being jerks to be booted by the real owner. |
| 21:51.48 | JefferyM | Murielle, that's what - is for |
| 21:52.12 | JefferyM | and IRC does not automaticly change your name |
| 21:52.23 | Murielle | why dont we append the - to te callsign itself? |
| 21:52.35 | JefferyM | because it's in the scoreaboards allready |
| 21:52.46 | JefferyM | adding it to the name is pointless |
| 21:52.59 | JefferyM | why do we need 2 identifyers? |
| 21:53.06 | Murielle | bbut it would resolve my problem ... somewhat |
| 21:53.24 | JefferyM | the software dosn't exist to solve all your problems |
| 21:53.33 | Murielle | uuhhh |
| 21:53.45 | Murielle | and improvement isnt a good thing? |
| 21:53.52 | JefferyM | it's not an improvement |
| 21:54.07 | JefferyM | how about you start with actualy telling us your problem |
| 21:54.11 | JefferyM | rather then sugesting solutions |
| 21:55.06 | Murielle | it hurts me that someone use her callsign and tell that he would have prefer she died sooner |
| 21:55.17 | Murielle | this my problem |
| 21:55.23 | JefferyM | yes, that is your problem |
| 21:55.26 | JefferyM | that is not a problem with the game |
| 21:55.29 | JefferyM | that is a problem with a person |
| 21:55.37 | Murielle | i agree |
| 21:55.51 | JefferyM | personal problems sadly do not have techincal solutions |
| 21:55.58 | Murielle | i see |
| 21:56.00 | JefferyM | adding a - to the name won't change what that person is doing |
| 21:56.13 | JefferyM | it will just make you feel better |
| 21:56.19 | Murielle | it will |
| 21:56.27 | Carnage00 | anyone know if there is a patch for client, if i idle to long as observer i go nr was told it might be my router |
| 21:56.39 | JefferyM | I'm sorry if I seem cruel, but there is a limit as to what we can do for you in the software |
| 21:56.54 | Murielle | i understand |
| 21:56.57 | Murielle | see you |
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| 21:59.14 | Cygal | Yassen: I don't know if I already mentioned that, but please use separate bug reports when you report several bugs. Thanks |
| 22:00.36 | JefferyM | Carnage00, it is your router |
| 22:01.04 | Carnage00 | would an update help or would i have to upgrade? |
| 22:01.07 | JefferyM | I did what I could in the code to prevent it, but it dosn't fix it on all routers |
| 22:01.25 | JefferyM | what version are you running? |
| 22:02.13 | Carnage00 | bzflag version? |
| 22:02.21 | JefferyM | yeah |
| 22:02.25 | Carnage00 | latest.. |
| 22:02.31 | JefferyM | and that number is....... |
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| 22:02.41 | CBG | â |
| 22:02.59 | Carnage00 | 2.0.10 |
| 22:03.04 | JefferyM | so not latest |
| 22:03.16 | JefferyM | you can try a .13 build |
| 22:03.18 | JefferyM | it may help |
| 22:03.19 | JefferyM | may not |
| 22:04.20 | Carnage00 | nothing that serious, was just wondering |
| 22:04.36 | Carnage00 | thx tho |
| 22:04.39 | JefferyM | yeah it seems to have somethign to do with the fact that UDP comes in, but little goes out |
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| 23:54.13 | CIA-60 | BZFlag: 03Adrianrf 07http://my.bzflag.org * r5782 10/w/Getting_Help: /* Quickstart */ fix spacing in section name |