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| 12:38.09 | joevano | needs to take a few weeks off from reading the forum ;) |
| 12:47.49 | cygal | what's wrong? :) |
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| 12:49.03 | joevano | I'm getting to cynical and school will be back in by ten ;) |
| 12:49.28 | joevano | s/ten/then/ |
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| 15:42.17 | CIA-76 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r20531 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/ (6 files): * added new files for the Hub feature (global chat) |
| 15:45.45 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpi (n=frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
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| 16:09.57 | CIA-76 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r20532 10/trunk/bzflag/ (37 files in 11 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 16:09.57 | CIA-76 | BZFlag: NOTES: |
| 16:09.57 | CIA-76 | BZFlag: * hub.bzflag.org needs a home (and a DNS entry) |
| 16:09.57 | CIA-76 | BZFlag: * the MSVC bzflag build will need to add liblua |
| 16:09.57 | CIA-76 | BZFlag: (the new sources file have been added) |
| 16:09.58 | CIA-76 | BZFlag: CHANGES: |
| 16:10.02 | CIA-76 | BZFlag: * interfaced the new Hub*.cxx files |
| 16:12.33 | trepan | and with that, the bzflag client is now global-chat capable ;) |
| 16:12.58 | cygal | good work :) |
| 16:13.01 | cygal | ~trepan++ |
| 16:14.03 | trepan | compatible with any tcp protocol (using an initial redirection to load the code) |
| 16:16.00 | CIA-76 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r20533 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/LuaHeader.h: * missing file |
| 16:17.17 | CIA-76 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r20534 10/trunk/bzflag/MSVC/build/bzflag.vcproj: * missing file, part II |
| 16:19.24 | CIA-76 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r20535 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/Makefile.am: * missing file, part III |
| 16:30.35 | brlcad | trepan: I did hook up hub.bzflag.bz for the meantime if it's of use |
| 16:30.50 | trepan | thanks, i'll point to that for now |
| 16:31.10 | brlcad | does it need a web home or just the name? |
| 16:31.20 | trepan | don't know exactly what the problem is, but bzflag.bz:16986 is _very_ slow with the test setup i've got |
| 16:31.25 | trepan | just a name |
| 16:31.36 | trepan | it uses raw TCP connections |
| 16:32.07 | trepan | (test setup current goes through the 'tcpserver' command) |
| 16:32.52 | *** join/#bzflag mrapplecomputer1 (n=admin@c-69-180-173-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 16:33.24 | brlcad | as in establish latency or slow transfer? |
| 16:33.42 | CIA-76 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r20536 10/trunk/bzflag/include/Protocol.h: * point to hub.bzflag.bz (until hub.bzflag.org is registered) |
| 16:34.22 | trepan | establish latency, in the order 20-30 seconds |
| 16:34.29 | brlcad | wow |
| 16:35.44 | cygal | tried to reproduce KingRobot's bugs with solo bots under windows, but everything works fine |
| 16:36.34 | trepan | i'll throw some extra debugf()'s in for different connection states, might be the async DNS query too |
| 16:37.59 | BulletCatcher | It looks like the new hub feature will download lua code from the net and execute it. If so, I am greatly concerned about the security implications. |
| 16:39.12 | trepan | you don't trust bzflag.bz? then disable it |
| 16:39.16 | cygal | only downloads it from a know location |
| 16:39.28 | cygal | known*. |
| 16:40.28 | BulletCatcher | This is a new kind of trust that has not existed previously in BZFlag. |
| 16:40.59 | BulletCatcher | It makes players vulnerable to bzflag.bz. |
| 16:41.17 | trepan | they're currently vulnerable to sourceforge.net |
| 16:41.44 | trepan | (and the hundreds of linux mirrors) |
| 16:41.58 | BulletCatcher | I accept that. I need to be convinced to also trust bzflag.bz. |
| 16:42.20 | trepan | talk to brlcad ;) |
| 16:43.20 | BulletCatcher | Okay. brlcad, what assurance can you give me that lua code downloaded from bzflag.bz will not compromise the security of my computer? |
| 16:44.17 | trepan | BulletCatcher: what assurance can you give me that the bzflag executable downloaded from sourceforge.net or any of the hundreds of linux repositories will not compromise the security of my computer? |
| 16:44.17 | brlcad | BulletCatcher: it's pretty much the same assurance you have that bzflag/bzfs itself doesn't compromise the security of your computer |
| 16:45.41 | trepan | i'd considered putting some limitations on the lua environment, but deemed it unnecessary code |
| 16:45.51 | brlcad | bzflag.bz is the list server, pretty tightly monitored with access restricted to specific highly trusted individuals that were vouched for by a peer |
| 16:46.47 | trepan | and tbh, the only one who'll be playing with the hub code is me, for the time being |
| 16:47.07 | trepan | and if you don't trust me, there's a _lot_ of code in bzflag that should have you worried ;) |
| 16:48.00 | BulletCatcher | Think of me as an advocate for all of our players. |
| 16:48.03 | BulletCatcher | I would be much more comfortable if the lua code were distributed via existing mechanisms. |
| 16:51.26 | BulletCatcher | Unsigned real-time code updates are a disaster waiting to happen. |
| 16:51.46 | trepan | echo "apt-get update" > /dev/null |
| 16:52.31 | trepan | the distribution mechanism is ideal for the unparanoid |
| 16:52.38 | BulletCatcher | The RPMs I install with yum are digitally signed. Are debs not the same? |
| 16:52.58 | trepan | and you trust those signatures because? |
| 16:53.18 | BulletCatcher | I trust them because I must. |
| 16:53.38 | trepan | ditto on bzflag.exe, and ditto on hub.bzflag.bz |
| 16:53.50 | BulletCatcher | No. This is a new type of trust. |
| 16:54.03 | BulletCatcher | And it is less secure. |
| 16:54.35 | trepan | if you don't like it, disable it |
| 16:54.47 | BulletCatcher | Digital signatures on the lua code might be sufficent. It is at least necessary. |
| 16:55.03 | trepan | i'm not going to bother arguing with you over trust issues, or your desire to quell them at the expense of a useful feature |
| 16:55.06 | BulletCatcher | I don't think we should subject the BZFlag community to such insecurity. |
| 16:56.38 | brlcad | what about isolating the hub into a section you have to "enter" akin to the list server menu, could even inject a premenu that explains what the hub is and gives them the option to back out without connecting |
| 16:57.02 | trepan | or, i just set the AutoJoin default to 0 |
| 16:57.54 | DTRemenak | BulletCatcher: signatures are ideal when you have untrusted mirrors. in our case, I don't see what they'd help...the same people would need the key as have write access to the point of distribution |
| 16:57.54 | brlcad | that might be a start, but if/until it's guivisible by default, it's not going to get widespread use |
| 16:58.06 | mrapplecomputer1 | [11:36am] mrapplecomputer1: i accidentaily clicked on or after august... when registereing a new account when i meant to click before |
| 16:58.06 | mrapplecomputer1 | [11:36am] mrapplecomputer1: can you change this or not |
| 16:58.06 | mrapplecomputer1 | [11:38am] mrapplecomputer1: if you have time, the callsign is: DropOut |
| 16:58.07 | mrapplecomputer1 | [11:38am] mrapplecomputer1: email is dropoutofbzflag@aol.com |
| 16:58.09 | mrapplecomputer1 | [11:54am] mrapplecomputer1: .... |
| 16:58.15 | trepan | it is gui visible, HubMenu.cxx |
| 16:58.48 | brlcad | the autojoin is orthogonal to the menu option then? |
| 16:59.04 | brlcad | unrelated |
| 16:59.32 | trepan | options -> hub settings -> AutoJoin |
| 17:00.07 | trepan | the menu entries are: |
| 17:00.08 | BulletCatcher | DTRemenak: I trust the people. I don't trust the network between my computer and theirs. |
| 17:00.39 | trepan | autojoin (0|1), username:, password:, copy login, connect, disconnect |
| 17:00.47 | BulletCatcher | And we can't really trust DNS anymore, either. |
| 17:01.13 | *** join/#bzflag jcp (n=jw@unaffiliated/javawizard2539) |
| 17:01.20 | trepan | ok, i'll add a fixed code option as well ... |
| 17:01.36 | BulletCatcher | Thanks. |
| 17:01.38 | mrapplecomputer1 | welcomes jcp |
| 17:01.49 | jcp | hey mrapplecomputer1 |
| 17:05.12 | bryjen | trusting the people with legitimate access to bzflag.bz isn't a problem. creating a single point to attack to inject code into lots of bzflag clients is. |
| 17:05.32 | DTRemenak | BulletCatcher: so https transfer would satisfy you also? |
| 17:07.45 | *** part/#bzflag mrapplecomputer1 (n=admin@c-69-180-173-220.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 17:20.55 | BulletCatcher | I trust https to protect my svn connections to SourceForge. |
| 17:20.56 | BulletCatcher | Doing SSL to bzflag.bz would be a huge improvement, but all of these questions are easily avoided by simply distributing the lua code with the rest of the BZFlag code. |
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| 17:57.37 | ts | hmm, t in svn trunk does no longer trigger display of fps for me |
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| 18:44.04 | BulletCatcher | ts: I noticed that too. Haven't had a chance to find out why. |
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| 19:22.35 | ts | BulletCatcher: y does not work for me anymore, either |
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| 19:23.35 | ts | and pause kills sound until reconnecting to a server |
| 19:50.05 | cygal | can you write bug reports for this? http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=3248&atid=103248 |
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| 23:08.06 | CIA-76 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r20537 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/HubLink.cxx: * boxed the hub.lua environment |
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| 23:39.20 | temp_dist | Flag drawing has some problems in both High Quality and Experimental - http://a.imagehost.org/0228/flag_drawing_experimental.jpg - http://a.imagehost.org/0801/flag_drawing_high.jpg |
| 23:40.50 | temp_dist | only on the mofo map it seems - nevermind :D |
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| 23:49.34 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
