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| 01:54.31 | blusterer | hi (it's randomparticle). i'm getting connection refused when trying to connect with my usual nick. is there a problem i should know about? |
| 01:54.52 | blusterer | connect to irc that is |
| 01:58.14 | delusional | last notice I got from christel says they were re-routing around a flaky server. Would be double the amount of disruptions during the change |
| 01:58.29 | blusterer | ah, ok |
| 01:58.46 | delusional | the process they are using is ot their prefferred method |
| 01:58.50 | delusional | not |
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| 02:00.05 | blusterer | the humorous teleport-wormhole bug occurred again last night. quite a nice one this time |
| 02:00.10 | blusterer | i have recorded it: http://vimeo.com/8063266 |
| 02:00.40 | blusterer | i took a look at update timestamps and there's no obvious clock wonkiness |
| 02:01.12 | mrapplecomputer1 | blusterer: thats wierd.... |
| 02:01.17 | blusterer | yeah.. :) |
| 02:01.33 | mrapplecomputer1 | lol |
| 02:02.56 | delusional | you've repeated that? does it always happen in the same place? |
| 02:03.14 | delusional | ... or does it happen in the same place as last time? |
| 02:03.22 | blusterer | it's very rare. i have only seen it 4 or 5 times in the last 4 years |
| 02:03.37 | blusterer | and it's non--reproducible |
| 02:03.58 | delusional | does it happen in the same place as last time? |
| 02:04.02 | blusterer | no |
| 02:04.29 | blusterer | is it curious that the tank is taken perfectly to the ground? |
| 02:04.48 | blusterer | i mean, if it was a random position shift, it could end up at any level |
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| 02:14.22 | kierra | blast007: ping |
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| 02:30.41 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://cia.vc/stats/project/BZFlag || http://my.BZFlag.org/w/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || http://ohloh.net/projects/189 | |
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| 02:37.29 | blast007 | blusterer: that looks like they went NR and then came back |
| 02:37.53 | blast007 | they were doing the "spin around in a circle" thing that happens when someone is moving and the player updates stop |
| 02:40.30 | blusterer | i think that's because he is typing blast |
| 02:40.40 | blusterer | i've looked at the position update timestamps |
| 02:40.54 | blusterer | there's a steady stream of them. nothing unusual happening |
| 02:41.17 | blusterer | and it would probably take 6 seconds to get to the destination point |
| 02:41.31 | blusterer | from where his last comment was made. not enough time i think |
| 02:41.43 | blast007 | well there was *something* unusual |
| 02:41.59 | blusterer | we've seen this before in more extreme form. e.g., a leap of half a map |
| 02:42.01 | blast007 | I'm just gonna say network glitch :) |
| 02:42.18 | blusterer | it can't be |
| 02:42.36 | blusterer | but since it's impossible to diagnose, ok :) |
| 02:42.44 | blast007 | exactly |
| 02:43.48 | blusterer | hmm.. you know this queryperformancecounter thing? |
| 02:44.42 | blast007 | I know that we use it. |
| 02:44.48 | blast007 | don't know much about it |
| 02:44.59 | blusterer | ah, ok |
| 02:45.22 | blast007 | think it's something with the system timer |
| 02:45.59 | blast007 | http://support.microsoft.com/kb/274323 |
| 02:47.10 | blast007 | so maybe that has something to do with it? |
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| 03:13.27 | AAA_awright | Could be a floating point weirdness or memory corruption? Memory corruption will do weird things. |
| 03:17.01 | blast007 | AAA_awright: sounds more like the link I posted there |
| 03:17.28 | blast007 | a sudden jump of several seconds could make you jump ahead a ways ;) |
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| 03:57.20 | blusterer | i'm looking at the timestamps from asmeouuus |
| 03:57.31 | blusterer | here's what i've got: http://bzflag.pastebin.ca/1707878 |
| 03:58.17 | blusterer | first float is the position update timestamp. that timestamp is calculated using queryperformancecounter |
| 03:58.30 | blusterer | second float is the difference between his time and my local time |
| 03:58.42 | blusterer | that's what i call "delta" |
| 03:58.58 | blusterer | third is the delta between successive deltas |
| 03:59.07 | blusterer | there's a spike at line 19 |
| 03:59.22 | blusterer | which coincides with the wormhole event |
| 03:59.50 | blast007 | so basically - bzflag can bend space time |
| 03:59.51 | blast007 | ;) |
| 03:59.55 | delusional | Hyperspace |
| 04:02.42 | blusterer | that spike could be attributable to either net jitter or a clock issue. either way, it's about 3 seconds |
| 04:03.09 | blusterer | which doesn't seem quite enough time to make the dramatic position jump |
| 04:03.43 | blusterer | but still, the timing of the spike is right |
| 04:04.07 | spldart | YAY! Breaking one of the 'lines of force' or 'quantum strings' using BZFlag!! :~P |
| 04:04.24 | blusterer | what i'm going to do is see how long it would take to get from A to B |
| 04:04.33 | blusterer | by driving the conventional way |
| 04:07.35 | blusterer | i had another idea |
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| 04:07.52 | blusterer | if i look from above i can sketch his movement |
| 04:08.11 | blusterer | it's going to be circular |
| 04:08.33 | blusterer | what i want to know is does the destination point lie on that circle |
| 04:17.29 | blusterer | you know what? i'm thinking this is actually jitter, not a bug |
| 04:18.05 | blusterer | the NR hypothesis is resurrected |
| 04:18.28 | blast007 | heh |
| 04:18.30 | blusterer | if you look at asme's motion as he reappears he's driving forward |
| 04:18.39 | blusterer | when he disappeared he was driving backward |
| 04:18.49 | blusterer | only way that could change is if he actually moved his mouse |
| 04:19.00 | blast007 | could be both things though ;) |
| 04:19.04 | blusterer | could :) |
| 04:19.19 | blast007 | his system may suck and be causing both problems |
| 04:19.26 | blusterer | could be |
| 04:20.57 | blusterer | if the clock hypothesis were correct, the tank's position would be shifted, but it would still be going backward |
| 04:21.04 | blast007 | http://support.microsoft.com/kb/274323 <--- the "cause" section there points at the southbridge |
| 04:21.16 | blast007 | where most PCI devices attach, such as a NIC :) |
| 04:23.21 | blusterer | i think microsoft should fix any bzflag bugs |
| 04:24.05 | blusterer | windows 7 has just come out. they must be sitting around idle thinking of what to do next. bzflag should be next :) |
| 04:27.10 | blusterer | one last thing before i kill myself: |
| 04:27.29 | blusterer | tanks are supposed to always send position updates when they land on the ground |
| 04:27.47 | blusterer | so you should always see the tank where it hits the ground |
| 04:28.18 | blusterer | maybe not at exactly the right time, but you should see it there at some point |
| 04:28.54 | blusterer | i don't see asme flicker even for 1 millisecond to any potential landing spot |
| 04:29.38 | blusterer | which suggests clock or nr rather than jitter |
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| 04:32.52 | blast007 | yeah, it looked like a gap in player updates to me |
| 04:32.54 | blast007 | er |
| 04:58.07 | AAA_awright | So it is associated with dead reckoning |
| 05:01.47 | R0b0t1 | Have any AIs been perfected for bzflag so that you could... run some type of interesting to watch simulation? |
| 05:06.27 | AAA_awright | There is at least one AI project besides the builtin Roger |
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| 15:13.38 | TutTankAhmon | I made an esay to use bot for jabber/gmail that tells you who is playing bzflag ; if anyone is interested ==> http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=15522#p144700 |
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| 17:23.14 | red-der | slaps Zelgadis around a bit with a large trout |
| 17:23.23 | Sagopa | ^^ |
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| 21:29.47 | KTL2 | there is some guy on planet mofo yelling something about sucking **** for the last hour (InfraRed2). |
| 21:30.38 | WarPig | hit the 'k' key and silence him |
| 21:30.39 | brad | isn't that kinda allowed there? |
| 21:30.52 | WarPig | No language rules on mofo, iirc |
| 21:30.53 | KTL2 | omg he means that it is allowed? |
| 21:31.12 | WarPig | really - 01hit the 'k' key and silence him |
| 21:31.26 | brad | read the server msg when you join |
| 21:31.32 | brad | it should explain the rules and how to contact the owner |
| 21:31.39 | KTL2 | couldnt belief he meant it |
| 21:32.53 | WarPig | mofo is not for the faint of heart nor the weak of consitiution. |
| 21:33.16 | temporalD | my constitution is becoming weaker every year |
| 21:33.21 | WarPig | nheh |
| 21:33.27 | WarPig | :-/ |
| 21:33.30 | WarPig | _n |
| 21:33.31 | spldart | So is the countries |
| 21:33.44 | spldart | s/countries/country's |
| 21:40.20 | joevano | ~n |
| 21:40.21 | ibot | [n] the disease bzflag players get when they play too much. There is no cure. |
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| 21:48.36 | Constitution | so is mine |
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| 21:57.14 | Cobra_Fast | Hi |
| 21:58.17 | Cobra_Fast | What Release do i have to choose when i want to build BZFlag 2.0.12 in VS2008? (KRB5 Release, Release, Release_modern, Release_modern_p3 or Release_pdcurses) |
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| 22:13.57 | JeffM | Cobra_Fast: release |
| 22:14.04 | Cobra_Fast | thx |
| 22:14.14 | JeffM | tho there isn't any diff between .10 and .12 for windows |
| 22:17.43 | Cobra_Fast | last time i built bzflag.exe said it couldnt find some stuff in zlib1.dll ... |
| 22:18.26 | Cobra_Fast | this time it cannot find .\Release\adler32.obj at build time |
| 22:18.26 | JeffM | that would be the version of curl you used |
| 22:18.37 | JeffM | dunno what that is |
| 22:18.51 | JeffM | you can fix the curl thing by using the curl dll from the .10 release |
| 22:18.56 | Cobra_Fast | im using the curl version provided from the bzwiki |
| 22:19.08 | JeffM | so? |
| 22:19.15 | Cobra_Fast | i have no idea |
| 22:19.36 | JeffM | the prebuilt curl bins from the curl people need zlib |
| 22:19.44 | JeffM | we build our own that does not |
| 22:19.46 | Cobra_Fast | yeh it now said it couldnt find libcurl.lib and aborted |
| 22:20.03 | JeffM | where did you put libcurl.lib? |
| 22:20.23 | Cobra_Fast | in a directory |
| 22:20.33 | Cobra_Fast | i added it to the c++ direcotries in VS |
| 22:20.55 | JeffM | you added it to the lib files section? |
| 22:21.22 | Cobra_Fast | oh wait the wrong path got there somehow |
| 22:22.03 | Cobra_Fast | ok fixed, retry |
| 22:22.26 | JeffM | 2.0.x was never intended to be built with VC 2008 just so you know |
| 22:22.34 | Cobra_Fast | k |
| 22:22.51 | JeffM | why do you need to build it? |
| 22:23.02 | Cobra_Fast | im just interested :p |
| 22:23.21 | JeffM | trunk will build better |
| 22:23.28 | JeffM | if you are just interested in code |
| 22:23.31 | Cobra_Fast | thats 3.0 ? |
| 22:23.34 | JeffM | ya |
| 22:24.09 | Cobra_Fast | ok no errors so far |
| 22:24.16 | JeffM | trunk is set to build right out of the box in 2008 |
| 22:24.32 | Cobra_Fast | yeah will try that out tomorrow then |
| 22:26.28 | Cobra_Fast | ok its all compiled: 0 errors, 43 warnings, 0 messages |
| 22:26.32 | Cobra_Fast | ill try |
| 22:27.07 | Cobra_Fast | yeah its the zlib1.dll error again |
| 22:27.33 | JeffM | take the curl dll from the 2.0.10 binary install and replace the one you downloaded |
| 22:27.46 | JeffM | or go find that zlib dll |
| 22:28.26 | Cobra_Fast | ok, it works with the .10 libcurl.dll |
| 22:28.32 | JeffM | yep |
| 22:28.32 | Cobra_Fast | thanks for that hint :p |
| 22:29.08 | Cobra_Fast | yeah i tried with some zlib1.dll i downloaded somewhere and it just gave another error |
| 22:29.16 | Cobra_Fast | so that wasnt a good fix |
| 22:29.19 | JeffM | that's why we build our own |
| 22:29.30 | Cobra_Fast | :) |
| 22:29.34 | JeffM | be nice if we didn't even need curl |
| 22:30.05 | Cobra_Fast | curl's in there for list server and token thing only, isnt it? |
| 22:30.41 | JeffM | and images |
| 22:30.46 | JeffM | anything that uses http |
| 22:30.49 | Cobra_Fast | oh right |
| 22:31.25 | Cobra_Fast | so you build your own curl? |
| 22:31.30 | Cobra_Fast | for the installer package |
| 22:31.34 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:31.44 | JeffM | one that dosn't need zlib |
| 22:31.46 | JeffM | links it staticly |
| 22:32.22 | Cobra_Fast | so you didnt build up a new curl |
| 22:32.23 | Cobra_Fast | you just modified the "old" one |
| 22:32.29 | JeffM | what do you mean? |
| 22:32.37 | Cobra_Fast | you took curl and modified it |
| 22:32.42 | Cobra_Fast | instead of recreating it |
| 22:32.43 | JeffM | we didn't write a new implementation of curl, we just compiled it |
| 22:32.45 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:32.52 | JeffM | it'd be stupid to write our own |
| 22:32.55 | Cobra_Fast | xD |
| 22:32.58 | JeffM | if we did that the code would be in BZ |
| 22:34.26 | Cobra_Fast | ok thank you |
| 22:34.32 | Cobra_Fast | its 11.30pm here i go to bed |
| 22:34.35 | Cobra_Fast | school tomorrow |
| 22:34.37 | Cobra_Fast | bye |
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