IRC log for #bzflag on 20100706

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00:23.18JeffM2501Git is wierd......
00:32.32smooothyes i did JeffM
00:32.35smoooththanks for the help btw
00:32.45JeffM2501cool
00:32.49smooothBlast got me straightened out :)
00:32.56JeffM2501he's good like that
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11:06.37CIA-87BZFlag: 03Yrogirg 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7099 10/w/Editing_by_Hand: /* Text Editors */
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12:39.22joevanoc4rM3x1!
12:50.30blast007ok
12:51.22joevanohate wasting a perfectly good password like that :-(
12:52.14blast007hehe
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14:16.46Muriellehi!  is there a way to force a tank to join a specific team by using bzfsApi only ?
14:33.18BulletCatcherI think bz_eGetAutoTeamEvent will do it, but I can't find an example of it being used that way.
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15:26.52MurielleOK..  so I have followed the idea of BulletCatcher. I have a plugin that is registered to bz_GetAutoTeamEvent. I modify the data...but still cant force the player GetAutoTeamEventData login observer for instance
15:39.57trepanMurielle: it worked for me,  "Blue Team team was unavailable, you were joined as an Observer"
15:40.15Murielleah.....
15:44.53Muriellei have found my error. Thank you
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22:13.47Constitutionis anyone familiar with how the bz GUI is drawn over the 3d environment at the OpenGL level?
22:14.32Constitutionor not necessarily how bz does it, but how it can be done efficiently?
22:25.45Runicjust draw over everything else, think of like a layer in Photoshop
22:26.33Constitutionwith drawPixels? a texture?
22:26.46Runicor more gl
22:27.04Constitutionyou mean using the 2D functions?
22:27.30Runicit all depeands on what you want to draw
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22:35.31Constitutionsay I want to draw text in a box
22:42.02JefferyM_Constitution, bzflag loads an orthographic matrix
22:42.05JefferyM_then just does normal GL
22:42.28JefferyM_an orhto matrix generaly puts you in screen space
22:42.55JefferyM_so your box would be a GLBegin(GL_LINE_LOOP) and the 4 coordinates
22:43.05JefferyM_draw pixels is HELLA slow
22:43.29Runichttp://nehe.gamedev.net/lesson.asp?index=03 see lessons towards the bottom on drawing text
22:43.47JefferyM_the best way to do it is to not go into ortho but figure out the XYZ of screen space in world space
22:45.12JefferyM_yeah all the font tutorials will go into some kind of ortho mode
22:46.10JefferyM_in generaly all you do is go into perspective mode, load the identity,  call glOrtho, then go back to modelview
22:46.34JefferyM_just remember to reset your perspective matrix when you are done :)
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23:03.34ConstitutionJefferyM: so for the console, for instance, the font texture would be sampled for every letter and pieced together every frame, rather than caching the image result somehow?
23:05.14JefferyMthat is an optimisation
23:05.40JefferyMwe use each glyph seperatly
23:06.11JefferyMftgl can cache strings iir
23:06.13JefferyMc
23:07.15JefferyMsorry was on the phone with my mom
23:07.29JefferyMwhat you draw when you are in ortho all depends on what you are doing
23:07.50JefferyMwhat I commonly do is use images as textures for UI elements then draw text on top of them
23:07.55JefferyMusing the Z axis for layering
23:08.07JefferyMbut I don't build up a big image for the entire hud then blast it out
23:08.11JefferyMit changes too much for that
23:08.35JefferyMand drawing GL in hardware is often much faster then manualy building and binding images to textures
23:08.49JefferyMwhat are you trying to do?
23:11.25Constitutionfor starters... render multiple "windows" of text (simple quads with a background, border perhaps, and text)
23:11.54JefferyMok so UI elements
23:11.57JefferyMa common task
23:12.02Constitutionsure
23:12.15JefferyMdrawing them on screen is the fastest way
23:12.31Constitutionseemingly simple enough, but it seems that if create a texture for each string of text I need to display I will run out of texture objects
23:12.33JefferyManything else will make the card do a pixel copy or texture load and those are generaly slower
23:12.50JefferyMwhat are you using for your font/text system?
23:13.36ConstitutionI'm using freetype2 to create bitmaps and my own code to convert them into gl-compatible pixel data
23:14.02JefferyMso you build a texture for each glyph?
23:14.29Constitutionmy code can create one texture for an entire string
23:14.47JefferyMthat's a lot of textures
23:14.49Constitutionbut it can also create textures for single glyphs, sure
23:14.54Constitutionright
23:15.18JefferyMhow often do your strings change?
23:16.01Constitutionvariable... the first thing I'm trying to do is to display FPS so perhaps every second for starters
23:16.21JefferyMcaching those won't buy you much
23:16.48JefferyMwrite an alphabet of glyphs out to a single texture
23:16.54JefferyMthen pull from that to draw the string
23:17.02JefferyMthen you only bind one texture per font
23:17.42Constitutionwhat about when you start supporting other character sets?
23:18.02JefferyMwell that's what FTGL does
23:18.14JefferyMit has a dynamic caching system IIRC
23:18.25JefferyMand builds up glyphlists
23:18.34Constitutionhm
23:18.45JefferyMit all depends on what your needs are
23:18.52JefferyMmemory or speed
23:19.04JefferyMcaching only makes sense for things that don't change often
23:19.25JefferyMthere are more options once you get into shaderland, but I'm no expert in that
23:19.55JefferyMit may be ok for you to cache common characters first
23:20.03JefferyMthen build up additional caches for "extended" characters
23:20.29Constitutionprimarily I'm trying to avoid excessively copying pixel data from client to server, since that seems like that is one of the slower operations
23:20.33JefferyMor define your strings as dynamic or static and have optimized renderers for each type
23:20.42JefferyMnever copy pixel data
23:20.45JefferyMyeah it's bad
23:20.56Constitutioner, wrong terminology
23:21.07JefferyMbuilding a texture is copying pixel data ;)
23:21.20Constitutionok, maybe correct terminology :)
23:21.43JefferyMyou want to load your textures once, bind them to an ID, then that lets them sit on the card
23:21.53JefferyMyou don't want to waste card bandwith by sending bitmaps over
23:22.06Constitutionright
23:22.29JefferyMso what you want is a few big textures that have multiple cached glyphs, rather then lots of little ones
23:22.30Constitutionso then, building a texture for every string you generate is not at all an efficient operation
23:22.42Constitutionok
23:22.44JefferyMit is if the strings are rather static
23:22.56JefferyMlike if you have the word "player" that never changes next to some hud display
23:23.01JefferyMthen caching that string is a good idea
23:23.06Constitutionok
23:23.08JefferyMand it'll look good
23:23.22JefferyMsince the entire string will be renedered by freetype
23:23.32JefferyMbassicly you have a speed/quality tradeoff
23:24.05JefferyMit may be good for you to make a system where you can specify some strings as "static" then cache them out
23:24.37JefferyMand then use a dynamic glyphset for stuff that changes, like FPS numbers
23:24.43JefferyMor chat text
23:25.09Constitutionok
23:25.14JefferyMin fact I can kinda see a class design for that in my head now :)
23:25.24JefferyMtho I've never done anything like that before
23:25.33JefferyMbranch BZ has a fixed characterset and just uses that
23:25.41JefferyMit aint' always purdy, but it's fast
23:27.56JefferyMas for the rest of it, it all depends on if you want your UI poroportonal or pixel based
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23:31.58Constitutionso really there is no special way of drawing UI elements to the screen (even if no transformation is needed) aside from using textures and mapping them to some sort of polygon?
23:32.13JefferyMyeah there is no "blit" in openGL
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23:32.18JefferyMno direct buffer access
23:32.28JefferyMsince the buffer may not even be on your computer :)
23:32.33Constitutionok, that was my main confusion
23:32.46JefferyMit's client/server based drawing
23:32.50JefferyMyou tell GL what to draw
23:32.56JefferyMand it draws it somewhere, and displays it
23:33.13JefferyMin the old days that could have been on a render server somewhere then sent to your terminal display
23:33.23JefferyMnow it's done asyc by the card
23:33.40JefferyMyou can't get direct access to the buffer because the card probaby hasn't finished the other drawing calls yet
23:33.57JefferyMor it's split it up over a couple hunderd shader units, etc...
23:34.46JefferyMthe only thing you can be sure of is that it'll be done by the time GLFlush() or swap buffers returns

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