IRC log for #bzflag on 20100722

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14:44.51SpazzyMcGeehttp://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=16360
14:44.56SpazzyMcGeeif anybody's interested
15:19.18ConstitutionSpazzyMcGee: sounds like fun
15:19.33SpazzyMcGeehopefully
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16:30.51mrapplehas anyone ever modded their client to show an 'Admin' tab for messages from the admin channel?
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16:53.47ruskiemrapple, why modded? there is a separate admin tab isn't it?
16:53.58ruskieatleast I remember something along that way
16:59.55mrapplenope :(
17:00.11mrappletheres all, chat, server, and misc
17:00.39JefferyMthe game generaly dosn't know what an "Admin" is
17:00.50JefferyMexcept in a few hardcoded cases
17:01.30mrappleah
17:01.51mrapplewell i had what i thought was a good idea, but I can't seem to wrap my head around how the current tab code works heh
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17:16.25JefferyMit's simpler then working out kenimatic trees :)
17:18.57mrappleheh
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17:35.46honeytankhey all :)
17:35.53echelonhi! :)
17:51.36Muriellehoneytank: ping
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19:14.33CIA-87BZFlag: 0364.185.129.101 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7129 10/w/BZEdit: Replacing page with 'DICK!'
19:17.46mrappleerm blast007 ^
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19:28.56CIA-87BZFlag: 03Ts 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7130 10/w/BZEdit: Undo revision 7129 by [[Special:Contributions/64.185.129.101|64.185.129.101]] ([[User talk:64.185.129.101|Talk]])
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20:00.07JefferyMheh
20:00.29JefferyMI guess someone found a bug in it :)
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21:42.38SpazzyMcGeeFeature request: Allowing burrow in meshes with a specific 'allowburrow' option in the mesh code.
21:42.47SpazzyMcGeevery useful for fake floors
21:42.56SpazzyMcGeethrowing it out there
21:43.00delusionaldoes burrow burrow, under water?
21:43.15SpazzyMcGeedelusional: how do you mean?
21:43.32SpazzyMcGeewaterLevel kills everything it touches
21:43.39delusionalif you have water... does burrow work there?
21:43.49SpazzyMcGeeand mesh water isn't actually water
21:54.23JefferyMa better request would be to define a mesh as the "floor"
21:54.34JefferyMthen have burrow AND spawning take it into account
21:55.38JefferyMthen anything that happens with the "floor" with other features would know to work on that mesh as well
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22:10.26delusionalBurrow and -sb... I can't think of anything else that depends on the special properties of the "Ground".  How would a burrow driving off a building be accounted for?
22:11.18SpazzyMcGeetrue
22:11.30delusionalOf course there's the mirror. Could you specify a vertical face as "ground" and get a vertical miiror?  
22:11.32SpazzyMcGeeI would suggest that they just fall out the building
22:11.46delusionalor is there a vertical mirror limitation in openGL?
22:11.53JefferyMjust because you can't think of anything now dosn't mean something will happen in the fture
22:11.59JefferyMand yeah the mirror is a GL trick
22:12.04JefferyMnot a real shader based mirror
22:12.18JefferyMthe world is just rendered twice with the Z flipped
22:12.47delusionallearns something every day.
22:13.03JefferyMI'm just saying instead of defning the specific attribute you want now for the mesh, define it as the OBJECT you want so that it can be used better in the future
22:13.38JefferyMtell bzfs what it is, not just what you want it to do
22:14.14SpazzyMcGeeI suppose so
22:14.20JefferyMmaybe someone will make a bouncy bomb shot that explodes when it hits the floor later, this way that feature would know it was the floor as well
22:14.31JefferyMit would also tell the rendering system that it would not need to render the ground under thos things
22:14.37JefferyMor not to do collisions under that thing
22:14.42SpazzyMcGeenot necesserily
22:14.47JefferyMlots of optimisations can happen once we know when the floor happens
22:14.52SpazzyMcGeefake ground can have stuff underneath
22:15.04SpazzyMcGeelouman's metropolis for example
22:15.07JefferyMtrue
22:15.16delusionalphysics can be on the ground
22:15.18JefferyMwell at least it coudl visualy cull the stuff under it
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22:15.30SpazzyMcGeeone of the main reasons for having the fake ground would be a tunnel :p
22:15.35SpazzyMcGeeyes
22:15.54JefferyMwell I think we should get rid of the default ground entirely
22:16.02JefferyMjust make old maps that don't define a floor add one
22:16.14JefferyMwith the "ground level" attribute
22:16.43JefferyMthen you wouldn't have to make your mesh ground be "fake"
22:16.55JefferyMit would be the same as the real ground, just not a plane
22:17.30JefferyMbecause the feature you are asking for really is burrow on any object
22:18.15JefferyMand that may not nessisaraly be something that is wanted
22:18.29JefferyMbut defining a mesh ground instead of hte plane, thats a more reasonable feature
22:18.42JefferyMjust a more arbitrary world definition
22:18.43SpazzyMcGeethat is a much better idea
22:18.47SpazzyMcGeethere is the problem of the 'infinite' ground too.
22:19.00delusional?
22:19.03SpazzyMcGeethe current ground stretches far beyond the mountain graphics
22:19.15JefferyMit's a screen space plane IIRC
22:19.29SpazzyMcGee(looks this up)
22:19.30trepanthe "mirror" effect really has nothing to do with shaders
22:20.29JefferyMtrepan, that's what I was trying to say (abet badly)
22:20.29trepans/the/any/  --  unless you've got a mirror with deformations
22:20.29JefferyMit's just a flipped rendering
22:20.29SpazzyMcGeeas has been established before, huge mesh faces cause a significant FPS drop
22:20.29JefferyMoh
22:20.29trepana mirror can always be done with simple transformations
22:20.29JefferyMyeah if you did mirror on a mesh it would have deformations, that's my point
22:20.29JefferyMif it's planar
22:20.41JefferyM"Fake" ground is not always planar
22:20.45trepanplanar = no deformations, no?
22:20.48JefferyMyes
22:21.16JefferyMgoes back to waiting for his crap to crash
22:21.18trepanfor fancy environmental reflections, you're probably looking a cube mapping
22:21.23trepan(again, doesn't need shaders)
22:21.29SpazzyMcGee(lua?)
22:21.38JefferyMbut that's not a mirror
22:21.46JefferyMthat's environment mapping
22:21.47trepanexactly, so mirrors don't need shaders  ;)
22:21.48JefferyMclose
22:22.19JefferyMchrome hills that refelected the game over them would I would think
22:22.28JefferyMor at least be easier if done in them
22:22.55trepanyour talking about non-planar reflective surfaces now?
22:22.59JefferyMyes
22:23.14JefferyMa mirrored arbitrary mesh
22:23.24JefferyMthat is what I was thinking would need shaders
22:23.34trepaneven that oft doesn't
22:23.39JefferyMthat's what I was thinking of when I made that statement
22:24.06trepanyou use a cube map
22:24.19JefferyMrender the sceene into it first?
22:24.21trepanunless you want to do ray tracing
22:24.51trepanrender a cube texture from a specific vantage point, and use that coupled with the mesh normals/viewpoint
22:26.25trepanfor gameplay, is there anything besides burrow that would need special handling for a "ground" surface?
22:26.40JefferyMflag spawns
22:26.58JefferyMwhen spawn on buildings isn't true
22:27.35trepanserver-side issue, can be overriden with bzfsAPI ?
22:28.04JefferyMonly if you handle all the spawns yourself
22:28.10JefferyMbut yeah after some work
22:37.30delusionalwater has to be on the ground?  and and is burrow able to drive underwater?  Has anybody ever suggested a splash sound?  What does it sound like when a tank falls into water?
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22:46.28trepandelusional: waterLevel is basically just a death phydrv
22:46.57trepanif the _mirror is enabled, tanks leave puddles instead of track marks (on the ground)
22:47.49delusionali dont think i've ever used water before.
22:48.04delusionalis it just me, or is the material definition missing? http://my.bzflag.org/bzfman.cgi?bzw.5.in
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23:04.12trepandelusional: ya, it might be a problem with the cgi script; or the source .in file
23:05.25delusionalwaterlevel is a material property, right?  
23:05.42trepanno
23:06.01trepanwaterLevel is listed in http://my.bzflag.org/bzfman.cgi?bzw.5.in
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23:14.41delusionali guess I'm just confused because other mappers have used meshes that had the look and feel of a waterlevel object, without actually using waterlevel.
23:16.38trepanyup, waterLevel could easily be removed
23:16.41trepanalong with tetras
23:24.41JefferyMdon't tetras swim in water?
23:25.17trepanif they have lifesaver.png applied to them, yes
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23:43.46delusionalinterestingly... lifesaver.bmp is the default image of filterforge,  a texturing progam i have been using  
23:43.48delusionalhttp://images.planet-mofo.com/A-Delusion/filterforge/lifesaver.png
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