| 00:21.40 | *** join/#bzflag nayrb91 (~chatzilla@c-71-192-50-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 00:30.59 | nayrb91 | Hello? |
| 00:31.04 | blast007 | hi |
| 00:31.07 | nayrb91 | hi |
| 00:31.35 | nayrb91 | Im used to chatting while playing |
| 00:31.39 | nayrb91 | what goes on here? |
| 00:31.53 | blast007 | this is the development/support channel |
| 00:32.11 | blast007 | so it's more active during the day (US times) |
| 00:32.12 | nayrb91 | cool |
| 00:32.22 | nayrb91 | any particular time? |
| 00:32.44 | blast007 | development is pretty dead right now, though |
| 00:32.48 | blast007 | shrugs |
| 00:33.15 | blast007 | it was active here around 4 or 5 hours ago |
| 00:34.56 | *** join/#bzflag nayrb91 (~chatzilla@c-71-192-50-88.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 00:35.20 | nayrb91 | okay then, I'll poke my head around here now and then |
| 00:35.26 | blast007 | :) |
| 00:42.59 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm2501) |
| 00:42.59 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 01:09.28 | JeffM2501 | anyone make a theme yet? |
| 01:09.39 | mrapple | for web league thing? |
| 01:09.44 | JeffM2501 | yep |
| 01:09.50 | mrapple | I started, then i did something else. |
| 01:10.30 | JeffM2501 | can't be that hard |
| 01:10.43 | mrapple | i get distracted easily |
| 01:10.46 | JeffM2501 | you get your parents to give you 500$ to make shirts? |
| 01:11.08 | kierra_away | lol |
| 01:11.16 | mrapple | actually, sort of |
| 01:11.34 | JeffM2501 | wonders if he can get kierra_away to stage 3 anytime soon |
| 01:13.37 | kierra_away | what is stage 3? |
| 01:13.52 | kierra | hey JeffM2501, you used to scare me |
| 01:13.58 | kierra | ask brlcad |
| 01:13.59 | JeffM2501 | barganing |
| 01:14.15 | JeffM2501 | you've obviously goten over denial and onto anger |
| 01:14.18 | JeffM2501 | ;) |
| 01:14.20 | kierra | what am i bargaining for and with what |
| 01:14.25 | JeffM2501 | 3 more to go |
| 01:14.44 | kierra | elucidate plz |
| 01:14.58 | JeffM2501 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model |
| 01:15.16 | mrapple | working on tshirt design now... |
| 01:15.21 | kierra | oh, kubler ross |
| 01:15.27 | kierra | on death and dying |
| 01:15.36 | kierra | had to study that in school |
| 01:16.47 | kierra | becareful, or i'll stay in anger |
| 01:19.02 | JeffM2501 | is always full of care |
| 01:24.29 | kierra | i'm not in denial....have seen this coming for a while now |
| 01:25.10 | kierra | anger doesnt solve anything...drives ppl in opposite direction :) |
| 01:25.29 | kierra | but...i dont have anything to bargain with |
| 01:26.10 | JeffM2501 | then that will go fast |
| 01:26.18 | JeffM2501 | that's good |
| 01:26.23 | kierra | one day when brlcad and i have lunch together....maybe i can talk him into something |
| 01:26.35 | kierra | don't make me mad JeffM2501 |
| 01:26.59 | kierra | if i had the skills, i would work on it. |
| 01:27.18 | kierra | apathy on many fronts is the problem....from the top down |
| 01:27.57 | kierra | too late....i'm annoyed....i better shut up before i make you angry as well |
| 01:28.04 | kierra | :) |
| 01:34.37 | mrapple | http://s.bzextreme.com/23088518 |
| 01:34.47 | mrapple | maybe something like Your tank goes boom |
| 01:34.52 | JeffM2501 | meh |
| 01:35.00 | mrapple | could be a ton of possiblities... -_- |
| 01:35.02 | JeffM2501 | also you won't get that close to the edge |
| 01:35.08 | mrapple | o |
| 01:35.15 | JeffM2501 | figure 14 inches high, and 12 wide |
| 01:35.29 | mrapple | rough ideas now, measurements later :P |
| 01:37.14 | JeffM2501 | it's very booring |
| 01:37.28 | me1 | indeed |
| 01:37.59 | mrapple | fineee |
| 01:38.24 | JeffM2501 | also most of your sales will be non english countries |
| 01:39.05 | mrapple | great |
| 01:39.37 | mrapple | so nothing more then bzflag.org really? |
| 01:39.40 | JeffM2501 | in general good art beats good text |
| 01:39.59 | JeffM2501 | I dont' even see the reasonf or the .org |
| 01:40.01 | kierra | gilly ping |
| 01:40.02 | JeffM2501 | everyone has google |
| 01:40.09 | kierra | gilly, would you post pic of the tshirt you won a few years back |
| 01:40.58 | me1 | what if we sold to china, jeff? |
| 01:41.09 | mrapple | meh? http://s.bzextreme.com/30303068 |
| 01:41.31 | JeffM2501 | the icon is not good art |
| 01:41.40 | JeffM2501 | be origonal |
| 01:41.47 | mrapple | thinks |
| 01:41.47 | me1 | mrapple, that's not even your icon |
| 01:41.51 | mrapple | i know |
| 01:41.57 | mrapple | im just brainstorming |
| 01:42.17 | me1 | brainstorm in your brain, in general, if you can whip it up in 5 minutes, it's not quality ;) |
| 01:43.08 | Murielle | mrapple: i was about to do a comment on what me1 said :) |
| 01:43.10 | mrapple | are these still for sale... http://www.cafepress.com/bzflag |
| 01:43.16 | Murielle | you guess it? :) |
| 01:43.26 | JeffM2501 | cafepress stuff is always for sale |
| 01:43.33 | JeffM2501 | they are print on demand |
| 01:43.48 | mrapple | *wonders who would buy this http://www.cafepress.com/bzflag.12427358 |
| 01:44.06 | JeffM2501 | I have one of those |
| 01:44.20 | mrapple | ^-^ |
| 01:44.34 | JeffM2501 | it's not bad, except for the printing |
| 01:44.37 | JeffM2501 | POD is waxy |
| 01:44.44 | JeffM2501 | since it's a transfer not silkscreen |
| 01:45.02 | mrapple | i like the "where tanks fly" part |
| 01:45.14 | *** join/#bzflag McYukon (~McYukon@xplr-ts-v10-208-114-191-42.barrettxplore.com) |
| 01:45.46 | JeffM2501 | I think he sold aboug 15 of those total |
| 01:48.44 | mrapple | i like these designs -> http://my.bzflag.org/bb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12444 |
| 01:49.21 | JeffM2501 | those are the classic shirts I'll do if I get moeny |
| 01:49.35 | JeffM2501 | they require 4 screens |
| 01:50.27 | JeffM2501 | and actualy I don't think the art is open source ;) |
| 01:52.08 | mrapple | cool shirts though |
| 01:52.17 | JeffM2501 | indeed they were the most popular |
| 01:52.42 | mrapple | i dont think im going to get a good design tonight |
| 01:52.47 | JeffM2501 | the design is rock solid and works from 4 down to one color |
| 01:52.51 | mrapple | maybe by the end of the week |
| 01:52.55 | JeffM2501 | saturos did a great job on it |
| 01:53.00 | JeffM2501 | used it on biz cards too |
| 01:53.12 | mrapple | nice |
| 01:53.22 | mrapple | i like the logo in the upper right |
| 01:53.27 | mrapple | think ill mimic that |
| 01:54.16 | JeffM2501 | it's ok as an accent but it's not a full shirt in itself |
| 01:54.38 | mrapple | i mean im going to have something cool on the back too |
| 01:54.58 | JeffM2501 | really wants to do a set based on tanks in gears |
| 01:55.28 | JeffM2501 | guess I still have the splat artwork too |
| 01:55.42 | mrapple | splat atrwork? |
| 01:55.46 | mrapple | just gave me some ideas... |
| 01:55.53 | JeffM2501 | from the contest |
| 01:56.11 | mrapple | contest o.O |
| 01:56.25 | JeffM2501 | yes the design on the 4th run was from a contest |
| 01:56.32 | mrapple | oh i see |
| 01:56.36 | mrapple | found it |
| 01:57.44 | *** part/#bzflag Murielle (~Murielle@unaffiliated/murielle) |
| 01:57.58 | JeffM2501 | it was a very close call between that and the one that won |
| 02:07.49 | me1 | winny's design looked very weird to me on my screen, but on the tshirt it was surprisingly nice. |
| 02:08.39 | JeffM2501 | we tweaked the colors before printing |
| 02:11.21 | mrapple | this would look good on most colors of shirts I think http://s.bzextreme.com/51758247 |
| 02:11.50 | JeffM2501 | yeah but it's hella booring |
| 02:12.13 | mrapple | true |
| 02:12.34 | JeffM2501 | also remember that they are going to want vector art not pixel art |
| 02:12.45 | mrapple | they take vector art? |
| 02:12.56 | JeffM2501 | they WANT vector art |
| 02:12.59 | mrapple | ok |
| 02:13.03 | JeffM2501 | they have to convert pixel to vector |
| 02:13.10 | mrapple | that would make sense |
| 02:13.13 | JeffM2501 | it's a single color mask |
| 02:14.08 | JeffM2501 | that means no blends only halftones |
| 02:16.27 | mrapple | where are people getting all of these 3D tanks e.g. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/BZFlag_2.0_title.png |
| 02:16.47 | JeffM2501 | from the wiki page |
| 02:16.51 | JeffM2501 | for tank |
| 02:16.58 | JeffM2501 | hates that logo |
| 02:17.11 | mrapple | heh |
| 02:17.53 | mrapple | Tank.obj. got it. |
| 02:20.18 | JeffM2501 | I really liked the work saturos did with newtank |
| 02:21.06 | mrapple | ? |
| 02:21.25 | JeffM2501 | updated tank that was for V3 |
| 02:21.43 | mrapple | is there a .obj? |
| 02:21.52 | JeffM2501 | on my harddrive |
| 02:21.56 | mrapple | share? |
| 02:22.07 | JeffM2501 | duno exactly where it is |
| 02:22.20 | mrapple | its not online anywhere? |
| 02:22.27 | JeffM2501 | it may be, I dunno |
| 02:23.09 | me1 | is it that render on the tank page? |
| 02:23.42 | JeffM2501 | yup |
| 02:23.59 | JeffM2501 | all I have on my desktop is old newtank |
| 02:25.39 | JeffM2501 | and searching my computer for the word "tank" is a very bad idea |
| 02:26.23 | me1 | today I learned what a muzzle break is, who says video games can't teach you anything? ;p |
| 02:26.40 | JeffM2501 | helps stop recoil |
| 02:26.45 | me1 | yup |
| 02:31.20 | JeffM2501 | that's why I put one on newtank |
| 02:50.23 | mrapple | yess got a red tank to work with http://s.bzextreme.com/82981333 |
| 02:51.05 | JeffM2501 | good luck printing that :) |
| 02:52.39 | mrapple | i know nothing about tshirt printing, does it have to be solid colors? |
| 02:52.48 | JeffM2501 | ohh yeah |
| 02:52.51 | JeffM2501 | no blends |
| 02:52.52 | JeffM2501 | no mixing |
| 02:52.55 | mrapple | *dies* |
| 02:53.01 | JeffM2501 | each color is applied seperately |
| 02:53.14 | JeffM2501 | and uusualy you can't do anything smaller then 1mm |
| 02:53.26 | JeffM2501 | so halftones look bad |
| 02:53.46 | JeffM2501 | it's very thick ink |
| 02:54.03 | mrapple | im to tired to think about this |
| 02:54.20 | JeffM2501 | eventualy it'll have to be converted into a mask per color |
| 02:54.59 | JeffM2501 | cafepress style print on demand can do more like what an inkjet printer can do |
| 02:55.04 | JeffM2501 | but it's lower qualit |
| 02:55.12 | blast007 | mrapple: you should be looking at something like Inkscape, not a 3D modeler |
| 02:55.19 | JeffM2501 | and generaly should be on a white shirt |
| 02:55.30 | mrapple | ok |
| 02:55.35 | JeffM2501 | yeah all our shirts were done in inkscape |
| 02:55.37 | me1 | the cafepress style prints are like iron on tshirt things, right? |
| 02:55.40 | JeffM2501 | a 2 vector program |
| 02:55.45 | JeffM2501 | me1, kinda |
| 02:55.52 | JeffM2501 | it's a transfer process |
| 02:56.20 | JeffM2501 | i'm not a fan of it |
| 02:56.31 | JeffM2501 | you can feel something waxy where the print has been applied |
| 02:56.34 | me1 | it makes icky flakey tshirts |
| 02:56.35 | JeffM2501 | even the white parts |
| 02:56.46 | JeffM2501 | it does wear out faster then real silkscreen yes |
| 02:58.24 | kierra | they tend to be kind of cheap looking too |
| 02:59.29 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 02:59.38 | JeffM2501 | now there coffe cups are great |
| 03:35.03 | kierra | JeffM2501: |
| 03:35.21 | JeffM2501 | ? |
| 03:35.28 | kierra | pm |
| 03:37.38 | short_circuit | bzt |
| 03:38.33 | kierra | gn all |
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| 05:36.03 | BitWraith | lol |
| 05:36.24 | BitWraith | I got bzflag running on my zaurus... I'm getting a whopping 6 FPS. |
| 05:37.01 | BitWraith | I could swear it was a lot faster in pdaxrom... |
| 06:25.58 | a_meteorite | BZ on a PDA? huh? |
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| 10:40.44 | CIA-98 | BZFlag: 03Volia 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7380 10/w/User_talk:Volia: New page: [http://www.termpapersandessays.org/ cheap term papers] |
| 10:49.16 | blast007 | I'll take a dozen! |
| 10:50.55 | CIA-98 | BZFlag: 03Blast 07http://my.bzflag.org * r0 10/w/Special:Log/block: blocked [[User:Volia]] with an expiry time of 1 year (account creation disabled, e-mail blocked): Spamming links to external sites |
| 10:51.14 | CIA-98 | BZFlag: 03Blast 07http://my.bzflag.org * r0 10/w/Special:Log/delete: deleted "[[User talk:Volia]]": content was spam |
| 10:51.50 | blast007 | a_meteorite: http://www.openzaurus.org/ |
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| 15:09.33 | Murielle | is it possible to run a client without any graphical display ? |
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| 15:41.43 | joevano | Murielle: i don't think so |
| 15:52.39 | Murielle | joevano: thank you for you answer |
| 15:53.02 | Murielle | how to run a bot on a bzfs ? |
| 15:55.03 | joevano | there was a framework started iirc with GSoC, but never fully realized |
| 15:55.22 | joevano | currently the only way is through the client |
| 16:18.44 | Murielle | I think I saw a bot on hepcat, once ... |
| 16:20.44 | Murielle | I try to run a "bot" on a remote host on which a bzfs server is running. So there is no known mean to do that? |
| 16:20.56 | joevano | nope |
| 16:21.38 | joevano | all the client side code that is required is in the client... the server does not have it |
| 16:21.58 | Murielle | thank you again for your reply, joevano |
| 16:22.05 | joevano | think of the server as a kind of relay |
| 16:22.55 | joevano | clients send their data to the server and the server sends it the stuff that other clients need to them |
| 16:23.20 | joevano | s/it the/the/ |
| 16:24.31 | Murielle | no way to run a bot thru bzadmin, right? |
| 16:25.12 | joevano | nope nothing in there about rendering the world it bzadmin either |
| 16:26.32 | joevano | now I have seen different bzadmin clients scripted tojoin a server and perform "Richard II" by Shakespear |
| 16:26.55 | Murielle | what do you mean? they played? |
| 16:27.58 | joevano | nope... different bzadmin clients joined and recited Richard II, as an interesting way to block regular users from joining |
| 16:28.21 | joevano | iirc it was a CRW thing |
| 16:30.13 | Murielle | i could try to run my bzflag client inside a virtual x11 server? |
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| 16:33.49 | joevano | that may work |
| 16:34.08 | Murielle | need a light x11 server then |
| 16:34.28 | Murielle | but the bot would like or jit then ? |
| 16:35.10 | Murielle | s/like/lag/ |
| 16:35.41 | joevano | depends on how well it ran |
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| 17:51.11 | blast007 | Murielle: also, I think the bzrobots project still needed OpenGL dev libraries/headers at least *installed*, last I knew. (since it used some of the main client code, which in turn needed OpenGL headers) |
| 17:53.12 | blast007 | Murielle: also, if you're planning on running a graphical client on your server, keep in mind that the CPU usage might impact everything else |
| 17:53.42 | blast007 | since it will likely be software rendering, so the FPS will be low even when maxing out the CPU |
| 17:54.24 | blast007 | (depending on the resolution you run it at, of course - I suppose you could do something like -window -geometry 128x128 when starting it) |
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| 21:59.24 | Murielle | thank you blast007 ofr your answer. Actually, I cant install x11 server cause i have very few space disk. Also, as you said, I do not want to increase load on the host (that is not mine). So I think I will try to hack the client such that it would run without any video output. Do you think it would be possible? |
| 22:03.06 | TimRiker | anything is possible. :) just time consuming. there have been quite a few attempts to get better remote bots. I'm not sure what the current status is though. |
| 22:03.46 | TimRiker | can you run the bots on a different machine that does have X/OpenGL ? sorry, didn't read the beginning of the conversation. |
| 22:04.46 | TimRiker | bzadmin joins as a player, but is an observer, not a visible player. |
| 22:05.09 | TimRiker | it does not use X/OpenGL, but does not play either. :/ |
| 22:05.12 | BitWraith | why can't you use SD Levnironment variables to disable video at that level? does the null video ouput work for GL apps? |
| 22:05.56 | Murielle | TimRiker. No. I would like the ot to be still active even when i turn off my computer |
| 22:06.04 | TimRiker | BitWraith, not tried that. worth a try. give the bot a connect string, and SL vars for null output. might just crash, but might work. |
| 22:06.10 | Murielle | the best place would be on the same host than the bzfs |
| 22:06.29 | TimRiker | Murielle, many admins use bzadmin under a screen session on the server for that. |
| 22:06.39 | JefferyM | Murielle, just so you know there is some support for server side bots in V3 |
| 22:06.44 | TimRiker | again, that's not a player, but it is logged into the server. |
| 22:06.44 | Murielle | yes..but bzadmin do not load the world |
| 22:06.50 | JefferyM | they are writen as a plugin and run with the server. |
| 22:07.07 | BitWraith | michael@hybrid ~ $ SDL_VIDEODRIVER="null" bzflag |
| 22:07.07 | BitWraith | Could not initialize SDL Video subsystem: No available video device. |
| 22:07.26 | TimRiker | well, it was worth a shot. :/ |
| 22:07.35 | Murielle | JefferyM: thank you for your answer. Can you point me the folder where these scripts are? |
| 22:07.42 | JefferyM | they are not scripts |
| 22:07.47 | JefferyM | it's an API feature |
| 22:07.48 | JefferyM | all C++ |
| 22:07.55 | JefferyM | I'm not sure how complete they are |
| 22:08.12 | JefferyM | I belive there is a sample plugin that uses them but I don't know the name |
| 22:08.22 | JefferyM | I don't have a source tree here sadly |
| 22:08.23 | Murielle | I think blast007 told me few words about this a few months ago. Was it related to AI ? |
| 22:08.41 | JefferyM | bzrobts is more related to AI |
| 22:08.45 | JefferyM | and the AI research projects |
| 22:08.49 | TimRiker | so if you're planning to actually code up a solution, the V3 codebase is farther along on that feature. |
| 22:08.52 | Murielle | so it is something else? |
| 22:08.56 | JefferyM | but the idea behind server side players was to do server side AI |
| 22:09.01 | JefferyM | yes it is different then bzrobots |
| 22:09.09 | JefferyM | bzrobts is a specialized client |
| 22:09.18 | JefferyM | each bot in it's own client and they connect to a server |
| 22:09.29 | Murielle | TimRiker: V3 = the trunk ? |
| 22:09.35 | JefferyM | Server side players have no client and are just manipulated on the server via a plugin |
| 22:09.43 | JefferyM | yes trunk is V3 |
| 22:10.17 | JefferyM | Server Side players can be used for bots, or chat clients, and web admin uses them as well I think |
| 22:10.44 | Murielle | Server Side player is a concept for V3 only,right? |
| 22:11.05 | *** join/#bzflag Admirarch (~Athelthra@mrush.mth.abdn.ac.uk) |
| 22:11.09 | JefferyM | yeah there is no V2 implementation |
| 22:11.29 | JefferyM | it uses a bunch of new networking stuff that was added to trunk |
| 22:11.39 | JefferyM | but I don't think it's complete |
| 22:12.02 | JefferyM | It may not work for what you want to do now, but I thought you should know it was there since you said the server was the best place for a bot |
| 22:12.09 | JefferyM | that's something I agree with ;) |
| 22:13.29 | Murielle | a voice in my mind tells me to do a screenshot of your last sentence .... |
| 22:13.51 | JefferyM | I can agree with lots of things, but I just don't agree with all things :) |
| 22:14.18 | JefferyM | I do think that for a bot that is to be used in real play, it should be run by the server. not from a network connection elsewere |
| 22:14.32 | JefferyM | the server has all the data about the game already may as well jsut keep it there |
| 22:14.41 | JefferyM | that's how most other FPS games handle bots and it works fine |
| 22:14.47 | *** part/#bzflag BitWraith (~michael@c-71-206-220-163.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 22:14.52 | Murielle | maybe it would not be a clean solution, but, running a client with every graphic calls disables...could it make it? |
| 22:15.05 | JefferyM | yeah it would work but it'd be hard |
| 22:15.16 | JefferyM | that's what bzrobots does |
| 22:15.20 | JefferyM | it's a headless client |
| 22:15.32 | JefferyM | the drawing code is spread out all over the client so it's a mess |
| 22:15.58 | Murielle | i would like to run it with cmd line as for bzadmin and it would enter in autopilot mode |
| 22:16.01 | JefferyM | I think bzrobots is V3 only |
| 22:16.15 | JefferyM | it's possible but a lot of work for V2 |
| 22:16.39 | *** join/#bzflag sirquine (~quine@c-67-186-15-145.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 22:16.49 | Murielle | i have a java code that load all the world.....and that show the radar |
| 22:16.55 | Murielle | and tanks |
| 22:17.03 | JefferyM | that's only part of it |
| 22:17.08 | JefferyM | the client does all the game logic |
| 22:17.13 | JefferyM | so you'd have to write that in java too |
| 22:17.19 | JefferyM | again possible but daunting |
| 22:17.40 | *** join/#bzflag temporalD (~a_temp_di@bzflag/serverop/TemporalDistraction) |
| 22:17.56 | *** join/#bzflag me1 (~ausom@bzflag/player/Me1) |
| 22:20.47 | *** join/#bzflag Scythio (~Scythio@d53-64-195-246.nap.wideopenwest.com) |
| 22:33.48 | mrapple | ugh L4m3r your server isnt back up yet -_- |
| 22:33.56 | mrapple | L4m3r: can you give me the new IP? ;D |
| 23:22.45 | *** join/#bzflag Anxuiz (~Anxuiz@unaffiliated/anxuiz) |
| 23:23.02 | *** join/#bzflag Packman (~chatzilla@115-188-178-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 23:24.48 | *** join/#bzflag McYukon (~McYukon@xplr-ts-v10-208-114-191-42.barrettxplore.com) |
| 23:24.56 | *** join/#bzflag Scythio (~Scythio@d53-64-195-246.nap.wideopenwest.com) |
