| 00:17.04 | *** join/#bzflag trepan (~trepan@unaffiliated/trepan) |
| 00:17.04 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v trepan] by ChanServ |
| 00:25.25 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@adsl-76-195-158-71.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:25.25 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm2501) |
| 00:25.25 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 01:07.14 | *** join/#bzflag ahs3- (~ahs3@adsl-065-005-193-158.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 01:07.45 | *** join/#bzflag Chestal_ (thilo@141.99.42.43) |
| 01:07.58 | *** join/#bzflag eTangenT_ (~lamer@c-98-245-170-238.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 01:08.40 | *** join/#bzflag brad (~brad@moooo.org) |
| 01:44.25 | *** join/#bzflag myrk (~myrk@ip68-4-44-147.pv.oc.cox.net) |
| 01:44.38 | *** part/#bzflag myrk (~myrk@ip68-4-44-147.pv.oc.cox.net) |
| 02:22.28 | *** join/#bzflag Wits_ (~Warinthes@35.153.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 02:33.27 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03Grans Remedy 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7430 10/w/Group_Management_System: /* Web Interface */ |
| 02:39.55 | BulletCatcher | ~GransRemedy++ |
| 04:20.12 | *** join/#bzflag sirquine (~quine@c-67-186-15-145.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 04:43.10 | *** join/#bzflag blast007 (~blast007@bzflag/developer/Blast) |
| 04:43.10 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v blast007] by ChanServ |
| 04:54.41 | KTL | if ever, there should be some feature that shows _how_ a player was shot, the path of the bullet or something, because sometimes it gets really difficult to explain |
| 05:03.16 | BulletCatcher | The closest thing we have to that is replay, but it must be enabled in advance. |
| 05:39.46 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03Grans Remedy 07http://my.bzflag.org * r0 10/w/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Actors Model.png]]" |
| 05:40.51 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03Grans Remedy 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7432 10/w/Group_management_system_functional_requirements: New page: {{DesignDocument}} The functional requirements for the Group Management System will be detailed in the following sections with [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_case Use Cases] and other [... |
| 05:45.30 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03Grans Remedy 07http://my.bzflag.org * r0 10/w/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Actors Model.png]]" |
| 05:49.11 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03Grans Remedy 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7434 10/w/Group_management_system_functional_requirements: |
| 05:49.29 | *** join/#bzflag Djpenguin (~David@c-98-207-67-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:58.24 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03Grans Remedy 07http://my.bzflag.org * r0 10/w/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Use Cases Overview.png]]" |
| 06:05.24 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03Grans Remedy 07http://my.bzflag.org * r0 10/w/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Actors Model.png]]": Smaller size |
| 06:08.32 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03Grans Remedy 07http://my.bzflag.org * r0 10/w/Special:Log/upload: uploaded a new version of "[[Image:Actors Model.png]]": smaller file size |
| 06:08.37 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03Grans Remedy 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7438 10/w/Group_management_system_functional_requirements: |
| 06:09.50 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03Grans Remedy 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7439 10/w/Group_management_system_functional_requirements: |
| 06:51.19 | *** join/#bzflag Marzipan- (~Marzipan@p5B225AC3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:52.37 | *** join/#bzflag Marzipan (~Marzipan@bzflag/player/Marzipan) |
| 07:21.07 | *** join/#bzflag Upsetter (~er@i59F6CC37.versanet.de) |
| 07:33.17 | CIA-33 | BZFlag: 03Grans Remedy 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7440 10/w/Group_Management_System: /* Web Interface */ |
| 12:41.27 | *** mode/#bzflag [+o Chestal] by ChanServ |
| 13:16.26 | *** join/#bzflag Pimpinella (~frank@gondolin.pimpi.org) |
| 13:16.59 | *** join/#bzflag bier_ (~bier@p57A66B1A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:30.36 | *** join/#bzflag bier (~bier@p57A66B1A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:40.22 | *** join/#bzflag BerntH (~user@CPE000102d0fe75-CM0012256ecbde.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 13:44.30 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (~KTL@213.219.154.176.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net) |
| 13:47.11 | delusional | what is the pushstats plugin? |
| 13:50.38 | delusional | i can't find any info at all on the forum, there is nothing in the source besides a URL.. (stattrack.bzflag.org/track), |
| 13:52.37 | KTL | looking at the source ... |
| 13:52.46 | KTL | it looks as if it generates a url everytime a players parts |
| 13:52.54 | KTL | and asks the server to get that url |
| 13:53.19 | KTL | (in the get arguments from the url is info about the player: wins losses tk's bzid |
| 13:53.30 | KTL | team, callsign) |
| 13:53.46 | delusional | can we use this? |
| 14:01.18 | KTL | i guess so ... :) |
| 14:03.11 | delusional | would be nice to know if there's any code on the receiving end |
| 14:03.52 | KTL | a simple php thing can do it, need to put a db behind it, but that should be done centrally |
| 14:03.58 | KTL | ow and ... |
| 14:04.02 | KTL | easy to cheat on |
| 14:04.14 | delusional | ? |
| 14:04.19 | KTL | a hacker could simply generate the url's himself ... |
| 14:04.42 | KTL | and push his own modified stuff to central ... |
| 14:04.45 | delusional | could configure to only accept from 1 IP |
| 14:05.25 | KTL | that's ok for the machines of a single server owner but not for the global game... |
| 14:06.16 | delusional | maybe it was designed for 2.99, because server need to authenticate, there |
| 14:06.29 | KTL | that could be it |
| 14:06.43 | KTL | well yes, it uses a few functions not available in the old one |
| 14:09.09 | KTL | but they arent so important it seems |
| 14:09.21 | KTL | bz_urlEncode and strrchr |
| 14:09.51 | delusional | you are saying it is a 2.99 plugin? |
| 14:09.57 | BulletCatcher | The pushstats plugin allows 2.0.14 and higher servers to participate in the 3.0 statistics system. |
| 14:10.00 | KTL | yes but easy to convert |
| 14:10.54 | BulletCatcher | The new stats system is only partially done, and nothing is running on the global server to receive updates. |
| 14:11.10 | delusional | BulletCatcher: could we use it on our own server? perhaps some basic functions. |
| 14:11.25 | delusional | and is the php code available? |
| 14:11.32 | delusional | (if it is php) |
| 14:11.36 | KTL | (doesnt need to be php) |
| 14:11.59 | BulletCatcher | Anything that has been written for it should be in the Subversion repository. |
| 14:12.09 | delusional | looks |
| 14:16.44 | BulletCatcher | The new stats update system is intended to replace the polling that is done by global every 5 minutes, allowing players who come and go between polls to be tracked. |
| 14:20.12 | delusional | https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/web/bzfstats/ |
| 14:20.37 | delusional | i only want a small portion of it. |
| 14:22.38 | BulletCatcher | Here you are: "<?php" :-) |
| 14:24.54 | delusional | I don't know... this quickly becomes quite complex, and all I want is kills/deaths |
| 14:26.48 | BulletCatcher | It may be easier for you to just set the correct server log level and then parse those logs. |
| 14:28.02 | delusional | there is a log level that records seaths/kills? |
| 14:28.23 | BulletCatcher | I think so. I could be mistaken. |
| 14:28.47 | delusional | not that I'm aware of. |
| 14:29.18 | delusional | i think at one time there was. |
| 14:29.22 | BulletCatcher | It shouldn't be hard to add if there isn't. |
| 14:29.34 | BulletCatcher | Probably easier than using the plugin. |
| 14:29.41 | delusional | definitely |
| 14:31.10 | delusional | we have several plugins actually.... just found pushstats... simplestats has a habit of failing... statsBoard has the functionality I need, but is designed for 2.99 |
| 14:31.22 | delusional | i need to bring that one down to 2.0.16 |
| 14:32.40 | *** join/#bzflag tupone (~tupone@host115-213-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:47.52 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (~spldart2@c-98-197-20-61.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 14:47.54 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (~spldart2@bzflag/contributor/spldart) |
| 14:47.54 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 15:17.34 | *** join/#bzflag spldart (~spldart2@bzflag/contributor/spldart) |
| 15:17.34 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v spldart] by ChanServ |
| 15:54.56 | *** part/#bzflag Upsetter (~er@i59F6CC37.versanet.de) |
| 16:29.12 | *** join/#bzflag soxs (~Adium@pool-72-74-214-104.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 16:42.38 | *** join/#bzflag Anxuiz (~Anxuiz@c-67-171-11-99.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 16:42.38 | *** join/#bzflag Anxuiz (~Anxuiz@unaffiliated/anxuiz) |
| 16:53.36 | *** join/#bzflag tupone (~tupone@gentoo/developer/tupone) |
| 16:53.36 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v tupone] by ChanServ |
| 17:39.14 | KTL | delusional, are you there? |
| 17:39.42 | KTL | mmm actually ... can debug without 2 players |
| 17:40.26 | KTL | the strongest player of them all is the world weapon ... it nevers get shot |
| 18:00.55 | KTL | how can i start a bzfs that can verify accounts without showing on the serverlist? |
| 18:01.25 | KTL | i suspect that -q does both |
| 18:01.38 | KTL | (it disables the user authentication) |
| 18:01.50 | Anxuiz | try -advertise NONE |
| 18:03.27 | KTL | mmm it still doesnt authenticate, changed question: how can i allow authentication ? maybe if i specified a groupdb file |
| 18:07.29 | Anxuiz | global auth or local auth? |
| 18:07.38 | *** part/#bzflag kierra (~jolie@unaffiliated/kierra) |
| 18:07.44 | Anxuiz | "Use -advertise NONE to make a private server (no one will see the server, but global logins can be used)." |
| 18:07.47 | blast007 | KTL: -q is only to prevent local discovery |
| 18:08.06 | KTL | mmm oki |
| 18:08.13 | KTL | tries to make a plugin |
| 18:08.21 | blast007 | KTL: if you want to use global auth, the server has to be public (but you can use -advertise NONE to prevent it from showing) |
| 18:10.02 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright_ (~a3@ip24-251-157-63.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 18:21.16 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm2501) |
| 18:21.16 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 18:29.24 | soxs | when observing somebody with the extended observer panel on and if a player is getting local collisions is that local collision calculated by what your seeing or by what the server is seeing? |
| 18:29.51 | soxs | and if it's by what you are seeing, if you have high lag would that throw the calculations off? |
| 18:30.07 | JeffM2501 | by what your client sees |
| 18:30.12 | JeffM2501 | the server dosn't track shots |
| 18:30.26 | JeffM2501 | yes lag affects it, your lag |
| 18:30.30 | JeffM2501 | it is not accurate at all |
| 18:33.01 | soxs | ok thanks. |
| 18:33.21 | soxs | correct: if the server could track it, it would be a lot better. |
| 18:33.47 | JeffM2501 | if the server could track it, we wouldn't have the problem |
| 18:33.59 | JeffM2501 | cus then the server could do the death calc and the client could not cheat it |
| 18:33.59 | soxs | is that a difficult implentation? |
| 18:34.37 | JeffM2501 | very |
| 18:34.56 | JeffM2501 | lots of rewriting of the client and server |
| 18:35.11 | soxs | yah. |
| 18:35.12 | JeffM2501 | it was even the subject of one of the summer of code projects |
| 18:35.37 | soxs | who's involved in that? |
| 18:35.45 | soxs | the bz devs? |
| 18:35.50 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 18:35.55 | JeffM2501 | but that was years ago |
| 18:35.59 | soxs | lol.. |
| 18:36.01 | JeffM2501 | nothing came of it |
| 18:36.22 | Chestal | if the observer's lag is stable (i.e. no jitter) it doesn't matter in this case |
| 18:36.42 | JeffM2501 | yeah there are cases if it's sable where it can be somewhat accurate |
| 18:36.42 | soxs | but if the player lags chestal, it does matter. |
| 18:36.45 | soxs | and there is always lag |
| 18:36.45 | Chestal | the observer will see the exact same sequence of events the server does, just delayed by a constant, so same false hits |
| 18:36.52 | JeffM2501 | if all the messages are delayed by the same ammout |
| 18:37.06 | JeffM2501 | the main problem with hits is jitter |
| 18:37.10 | soxs | ah |
| 18:37.48 | JeffM2501 | still taking it out of the hands of the player would be best |
| 18:37.55 | soxs | yes. |
| 18:37.56 | JeffM2501 | like every other game in the world |
| 18:38.00 | soxs | yaya |
| 18:38.09 | JeffM2501 | it's moot, there is no dev |
| 18:38.14 | JeffM2501 | so it's pointless |
| 18:38.39 | KTL | don't worry be happy |
| 18:38.45 | KTL | alll iezz well |
| 18:38.51 | JeffM2501 | I am happy, for that very reason |
| 18:39.00 | soxs | if bz particapted in the google summer code again how many people can work on the project at once? |
| 18:39.18 | JeffM2501 | SOC has already started this year |
| 18:39.24 | JeffM2501 | and it would be silly for us to apply again |
| 18:39.28 | soxs | SOC? |
| 18:39.34 | JeffM2501 | summer of code |
| 18:39.36 | soxs | k |
| 18:39.51 | soxs | it might be silly, but if the game is at a stand stiill its worth a shot. |
| 18:40.02 | soxs | also they are being paid regardless. |
| 18:40.07 | JeffM2501 | the game has stood still for 3 years |
| 18:40.17 | soxs | so why not take advantage of resources? |
| 18:40.20 | JeffM2501 | even when we did SOC, we never actualy implemented any of the student stuff in a release |
| 18:40.33 | JeffM2501 | because it's not a resouce problem, it's a not giving a crap problem |
| 18:40.36 | soxs | well if you give them a project that you want to implement it can be useful |
| 18:40.55 | JeffM2501 | SOC is not just telling people to code |
| 18:40.59 | JeffM2501 | you have to mentor them |
| 18:41.18 | JeffM2501 | just let it die, and let something else better take it's place |
| 18:41.21 | soxs | how many people would be allowed to work on bzflag if you did the "SOC", is it only 1 assigned person? |
| 18:41.33 | JeffM2501 | we usualy got assigned 3-5 |
| 18:41.36 | JeffM2501 | 6 once |
| 18:41.37 | soxs | ..... |
| 18:41.39 | JeffM2501 | and that was too much |
| 18:41.46 | soxs | man |
| 18:41.55 | soxs | how many months of work 3? |
| 18:41.57 | JeffM2501 | we don't get to tell them what to do |
| 18:41.59 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:42.08 | soxs | are they productive? |
| 18:42.08 | JeffM2501 | they have to tell us what THEY want to do and we accept them |
| 18:42.12 | soxs | ah |
| 18:42.15 | JeffM2501 | some are, many arnt |
| 18:42.30 | soxs | better than nothing at this point. |
| 18:42.37 | JeffM2501 | the hardest part is breaking the student "go off and do this thing then come back in 3 months" mentality |
| 18:42.40 | soxs | something is better than nothing :) |
| 18:42.41 | JeffM2501 | no really |
| 18:42.45 | JeffM2501 | not really |
| 18:43.02 | JeffM2501 | eveything must have an end |
| 18:43.08 | soxs | not true |
| 18:43.20 | JeffM2501 | actualy... true |
| 18:43.41 | soxs | that's just being pessimistic. |
| 18:43.50 | JeffM2501 | or honest |
| 18:43.54 | JeffM2501 | it had a good run |
| 18:44.01 | JeffM2501 | but it's old code |
| 18:44.04 | soxs | true |
| 18:44.05 | JeffM2501 | and an old game |
| 18:44.09 | JeffM2501 | with old concepts |
| 18:44.16 | JeffM2501 | it was never meant to be played on the internet |
| 18:44.29 | soxs | ya yah, i've heard this game song and dance for the last 8 years. |
| 18:44.32 | JeffM2501 | I'm not saying kill the idea of bzflag, just let this specific implemtation go. |
| 18:44.33 | soxs | same* |
| 18:44.45 | JeffM2501 | yeah those 8 years with out a release |
| 18:44.50 | soxs | but.. |
| 18:45.01 | JeffM2501 | so stop dancing and get to work ;) |
| 18:45.10 | soxs | when you kill the implementation you kill the idea of bzflag. |
| 18:45.16 | JeffM2501 | not really |
| 18:45.17 | soxs | because nobody is reviving it. |
| 18:45.23 | JeffM2501 | bzflag as a gameplay idea is pretty simple |
| 18:45.28 | JeffM2501 | it could be made as a quake mod |
| 18:45.37 | JeffM2501 | because these developers don't give a crap |
| 18:45.43 | JeffM2501 | and people keep trying to keep it alive |
| 18:45.58 | JeffM2501 | once you accept that it's over some people may be willing to work on something else |
| 18:46.06 | soxs | yes, i've heard your idea as a quake mod. |
| 18:46.13 | soxs | im willing to accept it, so what's the big hold up? |
| 18:46.22 | soxs | are you waiting for some council to approve your decision? |
| 18:46.24 | JeffM2501 | getting enough people to accept it |
| 18:46.32 | JeffM2501 | no, I've started working on a new codebase |
| 18:46.35 | soxs | i have yet to read anything on the forums. |
| 18:46.37 | JeffM2501 | been doing that for years |
| 18:46.41 | soxs | im aware. |
| 18:46.49 | JeffM2501 | but one man can not make a game of this scale |
| 18:47.01 | soxs | why not get the community evolved of the "game plan" so we can figure something out as a "community"? |
| 18:47.05 | JeffM2501 | oh I'd not use the bzflag fourms or project resoruces. |
| 18:47.08 | blast007 | needs to try building Const's game |
| 18:47.18 | JeffM2501 | cus the community is still stuck on playing bzflag ;) |
| 18:47.31 | soxs | nah.. |
| 18:47.33 | JeffM2501 | blast007, I havent tried it in a while |
| 18:47.59 | blast007 | I was having trouble getting git to cooperate :P |
| 18:48.05 | JeffM2501 | as am I |
| 18:48.12 | JeffM2501 | his host is less then awesome |
| 18:48.23 | soxs | I think if a dev can plan the future of it, the players will decide so it's just not a stand still. |
| 18:48.35 | JeffM2501 | soxs, I wrote a full design document |
| 18:48.48 | soxs | where? |
| 18:48.53 | JeffM2501 | opencombat.net |
| 18:48.56 | soxs | come on |
| 18:49.09 | soxs | you think people are gonna go to google.com to see what kind of jeffm is making today? |
| 18:49.13 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 18:49.14 | soxs | kind of game* |
| 18:49.24 | JeffM2501 | cus I don't really care what the "community" thinks about it |
| 18:49.31 | JeffM2501 | I care about what developers think about it |
| 18:49.38 | soxs | your the one with the ideas, your the one with the brains, i am sure enough people will accept your ideas if you give them to us. |
| 18:49.43 | JeffM2501 | and it's HERE that I posted it where developers are |
| 18:50.00 | soxs | and you are the only one working on it right? |
| 18:50.09 | JeffM2501 | yup |
| 18:50.13 | soxs | does opencombat if a quake engine? |
| 18:50.15 | JeffM2501 | none of the other devs here care |
| 18:50.16 | soxs | have* |
| 18:50.25 | JeffM2501 | no, it uses it's own drawing code using a portal engine |
| 18:50.26 | *** join/#bzflag jcp (alex@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539) |
| 18:50.40 | JeffM2501 | I said bzflag COULD be made as a quake mod, not that it should be made as one :) |
| 18:50.43 | soxs | will the brains of this game be able to be in "bzflag" |
| 18:51.09 | JeffM2501 | the design doc allows for the game to have a mode that would play like bzflag does now |
| 18:51.10 | JeffM2501 | mostly |
| 18:51.13 | soxs | meaning could opencombat's main resources be implemented into bzflag to modernize the game? |
| 18:51.18 | soxs | ic |
| 18:51.27 | JeffM2501 | no, there is no reason or need to keep the bzflag name |
| 18:51.43 | JeffM2501 | doing that just limits the project and ties it back to the existing management |
| 18:51.46 | JeffM2501 | and project |
| 18:51.52 | JeffM2501 | and that's part of the problem |
| 18:52.14 | soxs | i still think you should write something on the forums for the community, you might get more help then you might have expected, nothing to lose everything to gain. |
| 18:52.15 | KTL | mmm not much svn at sf.net for opencombat |
| 18:52.19 | JeffM2501 | if you want to run a one shot 100% heath server, go for it :) |
| 18:52.38 | JeffM2501 | KTL, I moved off of SF a long while ago |
| 18:52.41 | JeffM2501 | it's all google code |
| 18:53.10 | JeffM2501 | even documented how to get the code on that blog ;) |
| 18:53.24 | soxs | how often do you work on this? |
| 18:53.35 | JeffM2501 | not as much as I'd like lately |
| 18:53.44 | JeffM2501 | work and famialy stuff have come up |
| 18:54.00 | soxs | how much has been completed (percentage wise)? |
| 18:54.13 | blast007 | soxs: that's a loaded question |
| 18:54.17 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:54.28 | JeffM2501 | a lot of the frameworks and lib have been fleshed out |
| 18:54.33 | JeffM2501 | and the networking is setup |
| 18:54.34 | blast007 | 50%, give or take 50% |
| 18:54.37 | soxs | lol.. |
| 18:54.47 | JeffM2501 | it needs physics and stuff |
| 18:54.48 | soxs | when is the projected finish date? |
| 18:54.59 | JeffM2501 | it dosn't have one |
| 18:55.05 | soxs | rough estimate? |
| 18:55.09 | soxs | for the hell of it. |
| 18:55.16 | JeffM2501 | before the heat death of the universe |
| 18:55.25 | soxs | i would sure hope so;) |
| 18:55.49 | blast007 | but it will probably be delayed a bit past that |
| 18:55.51 | soxs | if opencombat can be played "like bzflag" meaning very similiar, why don't other devs help you? |
| 18:56.01 | JeffM2501 | cus they don't give a crap |
| 18:56.07 | blast007 | JeffM2501: you could just refer to "valve time" |
| 18:56.11 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 18:56.20 | JeffM2501 | when HL2 E3 ships :) |
| 18:56.32 | soxs | why don't you try to use the google code project for "opencombat"? |
| 18:57.03 | soxs | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:57.15 | JeffM2501 | ummm that's what I do |
| 18:57.29 | JeffM2501 | when I have time and desire I work on it |
| 18:57.42 | soxs | i mean, using it for the summer code? |
| 18:58.17 | blast007 | soxs: you do understand that organizations have to apply as well, right? |
| 18:58.27 | blast007 | it's not just a "hey, I has projects!" |
| 18:58.31 | soxs | i do understand that, jeffm said that. |
| 18:58.37 | JeffM2501 | SOC only accepts long standing open source pojects |
| 18:58.44 | JeffM2501 | OC is not well known enough |
| 18:58.49 | JeffM2501 | they don't just give anyone money |
| 18:59.05 | soxs | ic. |
| 18:59.14 | JeffM2501 | and it would be pointless in the long term to base a proejcts main development on SOC |
| 18:59.19 | JeffM2501 | it's too fragile |
| 18:59.22 | soxs | so since the bzflag devs don't want to help opencombat have you extended your search? |
| 18:59.29 | JeffM2501 | not really |
| 18:59.41 | JeffM2501 | cus the only reason I do stuff here is cus some of the people are cool |
| 18:59.49 | JeffM2501 | I'll live if OC never gets made |
| 18:59.54 | JeffM2501 | I am not 12 :) |
| 19:00.07 | soxs | that's good that they are cool and lazy :) |
| 19:00.19 | JeffM2501 | most lazy people are pretty cool |
| 19:00.22 | JeffM2501 | cus they arn't uptight |
| 19:00.39 | JeffM2501 | or hell bent on pushing some agenda just for the sake of pushing it |
| 19:00.48 | soxs | why once bzflag once active and now dead?, what caused these devs to become lazy? |
| 19:01.03 | JeffM2501 | they are mostly just dissaffected |
| 19:01.05 | soxs | was* |
| 19:01.20 | JeffM2501 | Personaly I blame the longtime lack of strong mangement and no clear goals |
| 19:01.24 | blast007 | or maybe we were always lazy, and now the easy stuff is done? ;) |
| 19:01.31 | soxs | who are they dissaffected with? |
| 19:01.34 | JeffM2501 | that is also probably true |
| 19:01.38 | JeffM2501 | the code and players |
| 19:01.46 | soxs | lol.. |
| 19:01.52 | blast007 | the code is painful to work with |
| 19:01.53 | JeffM2501 | the vast majority of players ( by number) are kinda jerks |
| 19:01.55 | soxs | "players" |
| 19:02.02 | JeffM2501 | so you ask yourself "why do I do this?" |
| 19:02.17 | soxs | hard work pays off. |
| 19:02.21 | JeffM2501 | how? |
| 19:02.27 | JeffM2501 | what do we get out of it? |
| 19:02.28 | soxs | players will be happy :) |
| 19:02.37 | JeffM2501 | no... no they won't |
| 19:02.39 | JeffM2501 | they are never happy |
| 19:02.47 | blast007 | they complain about changes that get made :P |
| 19:02.57 | soxs | that's everygame |
| 19:03.08 | JeffM2501 | they don't undestand that there idea for a flag that kills everyone with a godzilla is lame and breaking |
| 19:03.11 | JeffM2501 | exactly |
| 19:03.30 | JeffM2501 | also with no direction the game gets mushy with everyone just putting whatever they want in there |
| 19:03.33 | blast007 | soxs: exactly, which is why we've moved on to writing word processors |
| 19:03.41 | blast007 | word processors with tanks |
| 19:03.49 | JeffM2501 | bzflag development became reactionary, not evolutionary |
| 19:04.00 | soxs | someone must take initiative |
| 19:04.12 | JeffM2501 | the owner of the project never did |
| 19:04.15 | blast007 | maybe our maintainer could |
| 19:04.16 | soxs | someone must lay the laws of the land. |
| 19:04.17 | JeffM2501 | and nobody wanted to fork |
| 19:04.34 | JeffM2501 | but it's all moot, there is replacement game for the modern era, http://www.worldoftanks.com/ |
| 19:04.42 | soxs | who is the current maintainer? |
| 19:04.51 | JeffM2501 | tim |
| 19:05.03 | soxs | ... |
| 19:05.14 | blast007 | exactly |
| 19:05.22 | soxs | why doesn't he pass the torch? |
| 19:05.35 | JeffM2501 | that's a question for him to answer |
| 19:05.48 | JeffM2501 | he may feel he can get back into it at some date |
| 19:05.59 | JeffM2501 | or maybe he hasn't met anyone he trusts |
| 19:06.04 | blast007 | JeffM2501: maybe he's waiting for HL2 E3 |
| 19:06.05 | soxs | lol |
| 19:06.30 | soxs | so if we had a active maintainer a lot of these issues could be worked out? |
| 19:06.37 | blast007 | actually I think he just keeps it around so he has something for a new year's resolution |
| 19:06.53 | JeffM2501 | no way of knowing, but my gut says that if the project had better goals it would do better |
| 19:07.29 | soxs | JeffM2501: would you want the position? |
| 19:07.44 | JeffM2501 | of bzflag... I don't think so |
| 19:08.01 | JeffM2501 | I'd rather just make something new and sever all ties |
| 19:08.14 | JeffM2501 | even the name is kinda silly these days |
| 19:08.25 | JeffM2501 | may as well let the name have a dignified rest |
| 19:08.54 | soxs | lol. |
| 19:09.28 | JeffM2501 | also makes it easier to add new gameplay elemenets and not have people complain "that's not bzflag" |
| 19:09.38 | blast007 | Jan 7th: |
| 19:09.40 | blast007 | <+JefferyM> changes to servers are pointless when you've got almost 6 years into a release |
| 19:09.43 | blast007 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:09.45 | blast007 | riiiiiight |
| 19:09.55 | JeffM2501 | he means well |
| 19:10.01 | JeffM2501 | but looking for a new job takes time |
| 19:10.13 | soxs | looking for a new job? |
| 19:10.29 | soxs | that cat wants a job that pays him $130,000 a year lol. |
| 19:10.43 | JeffM2501 | people have to eat |
| 19:11.10 | soxs | must be good to eat steak and fresh sea food everynight:P |
| 19:11.26 | JeffM2501 | have you ever owned a house? |
| 19:12.50 | soxs | not yet |
| 19:13.18 | soxs | if you own a house and quit paying you have like 2 years till your kicked out lol.. |
| 19:13.55 | JeffM2501 | yeah...... perhps you should not talk about stuff like that so you don't make a fool out of yourself |
| 19:14.40 | brad | lol |
| 19:14.41 | KTL | are the plugin events/handlers run by the same thread as the server? |
| 19:14.43 | soxs | I have 99 problems but money isnt one |
| 19:14.46 | JeffM2501 | yes |
| 19:14.54 | JeffM2501 | the server only has one thread |
| 19:15.07 | KTL | so i shouldnt do expensive genetic algorithms on the fly :) |
| 19:15.22 | JeffM2501 | soxs, I'd recoment not talking about that stuff till you are older |
| 19:15.31 | soxs | how old? |
| 19:15.36 | JeffM2501 | KTL, if you want the server to run slow not |
| 19:15.38 | soxs | 21 isnt old enough? |
| 19:15.42 | JeffM2501 | nope |
| 19:15.48 | JeffM2501 | 25 at least |
| 19:15.52 | soxs | married? |
| 19:15.57 | soxs | lol.. |
| 19:16.00 | JeffM2501 | not nessisarly |
| 19:16.07 | soxs | kid on the way?:P |
| 19:16.16 | JeffM2501 | not nessisarly |
| 19:16.27 | JeffM2501 | bassicly when you stop thinking like a child |
| 19:16.40 | soxs | it's good to act young. |
| 19:16.49 | JeffM2501 | acting is not thinking ;) |
| 19:17.09 | soxs | well i don't have this problem. |
| 19:17.19 | JeffM2501 | if you say so |
| 19:17.27 | JeffM2501 | but yes last I heard tim was looking for a new job |
| 19:17.49 | soxs | his phone launch failed? |
| 19:18.15 | JeffM2501 | I don't think the company that ran it put the right effort into it and google made android in the mean time |
| 19:18.30 | blast007 | <@TimRiker> yeah. the phone project keeps claiming it'll get fully funded, but not happened. |
| 19:19.08 | soxs | was suppose to be released like last year lol. |
| 19:19.32 | JeffM2501 | such things happen in development even in comercial companies |
| 19:22.52 | blast007 | http://www.zeroballistics.com/screenshots.php?um=2&lm=1 <-- different tank game (and is open-source) |
| 19:24.50 | *** join/#bzflag eTangenT (~lamer@c-98-245-170-238.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 19:24.54 | KTL | woa |
| 19:26.56 | blast007 | http://sourceforge.net/projects/zeroballistics/ |
| 19:27.21 | blast007 | doesn't list OSX as supported though |
| 19:27.30 | blast007 | but that's not a big loss |
| 19:27.32 | blast007 | ducks |
| 19:28.16 | eTangenT | what are we talking about? |
| 19:28.22 | eTangenT | I tried zeroballistics out for a while |
| 19:28.39 | KTL | any good? |
| 19:28.42 | eTangenT | it was fun but there were really no other players so I got bored of bots pretty quickly |
| 19:28.59 | blast007 | haven't tried it |
| 19:29.08 | blast007 | heh |
| 19:29.59 | blast007 | so now here's a question - if a tank game that looks that good can't get players, what hope does BZFlag have? |
| 19:30.31 | JeffM2501 | there are ways to get players when you have a decent game |
| 19:30.39 | BulletCatcher | BZFlag attracts players for whom looks are less important than gameplay. |
| 19:30.44 | JeffM2501 | they may not have been willing to do those things |
| 19:31.24 | blast007 | BulletCatcher: yet we're failing to deliver on that as well |
| 19:31.31 | blast007 | sure, the game can be enjoyable |
| 19:31.36 | blast007 | but there's a lot of quirks and issues |
| 19:31.59 | BulletCatcher | No, we are just failing to deliver changes in gameplay. |
| 19:32.22 | JeffM2501 | and to make the game teach new players that gameplay |
| 19:32.29 | JeffM2501 | cus it's a little inconsitent |
| 19:33.28 | eTangenT | I think bzflag would be 10x better if the silvercat rotation hadn't died |
| 19:33.34 | BulletCatcher | For me, learning BZFlag's quirks is part of the fun. |
| 19:33.37 | eTangenT | I remember when I started playing I absolutely loved playing there |
| 19:34.08 | blast007 | BulletCatcher: players join a "free for all" and then can't shoot everyone. |
| 19:34.17 | blast007 | since it's not really FFA ;) |
| 19:34.23 | blast007 | it's team-deathmatch |
| 19:34.45 | BulletCatcher | They figure it out quickly enough. |
| 19:34.47 | eTangenT | I'd hate to insult dw but I think missile wars is just not as fun and playable as Dutchrai's old maps |
| 19:35.00 | eTangenT | I do think "FFA" should be relabelled "TDM" |
| 19:35.28 | eTangenT | I suppose a true FFA is possible in BZ, just nobody does it |
| 19:35.41 | blast007 | 2.99.x has it |
| 19:35.42 | BulletCatcher | Yup. Just make rougue the only team. |
| 19:35.50 | blast007 | Open FFA, iirc |
| 19:35.51 | JeffM2501 | I renamed it in V3 |
| 19:35.55 | JeffM2501 | yeah |
| 19:36.06 | JeffM2501 | openFFA is real deathmatch and ffa is now team ffa |
| 19:36.11 | blast007 | our join screen could be redone too |
| 19:36.22 | blast007 | remove the team selection from there, and do it after joining |
| 19:36.25 | KTL | eTangenT, i agree on that |
| 19:36.42 | eTangenT | I wish I had more I could contribute for development |
| 19:36.45 | JeffM2501 | heck the main menu page has an arrow cursor and things that look like buttons but you have to click on them ;) |
| 19:37.30 | JeffM2501 | bzflag was designed around the premice that mice are OPTIONAL on a computer |
| 19:38.01 | KTL | miauw |
| 19:39.01 | *** join/#bzflag AAA_awright_ (~a3@ip24-251-157-63.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 19:55.29 | *** join/#bzflag soxs1 (~Adium@pool-72-74-214-104.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 19:55.36 | *** join/#bzflag soxs2 (~Adium@pool-72-74-214-104.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 20:07.35 | soxs2 | is there a player activity like on http://bzstats.strayer.de/ that is over a longer period of time rather than 24 hrs? |
| 20:21.25 | trepan | http://trepan.bzflag.bz/players-0026.png -- there are probably better graphs out there ... somewhere |
| 20:29.05 | soxs2 | pretty good, do you have one that goes back further? |
| 20:36.21 | trepan | no |
| 20:41.30 | *** join/#bzflag Ebert_ (~EbErT@99-98-153-115.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:08.13 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@76.92.80.131) |
| 21:08.13 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 21:12.42 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@76.92.80.131) |
| 21:12.43 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 21:16.34 | *** part/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@76.92.80.131) |
| 21:19.42 | *** join/#bzflag bryjen (~bryjen@76.92.80.131) |
| 21:19.42 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v bryjen] by ChanServ |
| 22:58.48 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM2501 (~JeffM@unaffiliated/jeffm2501) |
| 22:58.48 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v JeffM2501] by ChanServ |
| 23:19.11 | *** join/#bzflag Wits (~Warinthes@35.153.119.70.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 23:30.23 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM_ (~JeffM@adsl-76-195-158-71.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:30.32 | *** join/#bzflag Will07c5_ (~Will07c5@c-24-7-197-37.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:34.08 | *** join/#bzflag Admirarch (~Athelthra@mrush.mth.abdn.ac.uk) |
| 23:34.15 | *** join/#bzflag quine__ (~quine@c-67-186-15-145.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 23:35.03 | *** join/#bzflag [dmp]_ (~dennis@unaffiliated/dmp/x-546784) |
| 23:37.07 | *** join/#bzflag mac-mini (~mac-mini@unaffiliated/macmini/x-648924) |
| 23:39.44 | *** join/#bzflag GvzEvxre (timr@2002:c63c:72cf::1) |
| 23:44.16 | *** join/#bzflag fahadsadah_ (fahad@unaffiliated/fahadsadah) |
| 23:50.28 | *** join/#bzflag CIA-48 (~CIA@208.69.182.149) |
| 23:52.14 | *** join/#bzflag Will07c5__ (~Will07c5@c-24-7-197-37.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 23:52.44 | *** join/#bzflag ts_ (~ts@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ) |
| 23:53.12 | *** join/#bzflag ahs3- (~ahs3@adsl-065-005-193-158.sip.rdu.bellsouth.net) |
| 23:53.45 | *** join/#bzflag dcat (~dcat@c-98-249-63-154.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 23:54.07 | *** join/#bzflag brlcad (~sean@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ) |
| 23:59.43 | *** join/#bzflag Manu (~jujibo@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ) |
| 23:59.43 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v Manu] by ChanServ |
