| 00:03.20 | blast007 | that server isn't fully up to date |
| 00:03.45 | blast007 | several days behind (since I was debugging the HTTP issues) |
| 00:04.40 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r21849 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/GameKeeper.h: Unnecessary (and incorrect) forward reference |
| 00:08.12 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r21850 10/trunk/bzflag/MSVC/build/platform.vcproj: Don't try to build files for other platforms. |
| 00:08.45 | Pimpi | blast007, i thought that was the intention, porting back what is close to 2.0, can be applied without much testing and won't make much problems |
| 00:09.50 | blast007 | Pimpi: referring to what? sending the closest flag messages as chat? |
| 00:10.18 | Pimpi | using early versions |
| 00:11.18 | blast007 | the version of the server-side ID you backported was a hackish version |
| 00:11.36 | blast007 | it was improved later on to actually have a new message type |
| 00:39.13 | Thumper_ | thanks blast007 and Pimpi (re: r12467) |
| 00:41.02 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * r21851 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzflag/LocalPlayer.cxx: |
| 00:41.02 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: Always precede a Shot with an update in the tank position |
| 00:41.02 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: Backported from r12007 |
| 00:41.03 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * r21852 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/PlayerInfo.h src/game/PlayerInfo.cxx): |
| 00:41.03 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: Some info is not available before entering |
| 00:41.03 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: Backported from r12009 |
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| 02:36.14 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: 0367.248.144.216 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7716 10/w/Mesh: /* Code */ |
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| 02:51.35 | kierra_away | blast007: ping |
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| 05:12.40 | Pimpi | blast007, will fix that, too |
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| 08:04.35 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: 03trepan * r21853 10/branches/experimental/v2_99continuing/bzflag/src/include/typeof.h: * gcc and clang using native typeof()s, others use <boost/typeof/typeof.hpp> |
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| 12:46.05 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: 03pimpinella * r21854 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/Permissions.cxx: fight ugliness and don't let bzfs warn of bad userdb lines if the're just blank |
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| 14:08.30 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * r21855 10/trunk/bzflag/ (ChangeLog src/bzfs/commands.cxx): |
| 14:08.30 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: Its own /playerlist available to everyone. From Thomas Stauer |
| 14:08.30 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: Backported from r12191 |
| 14:15.34 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * r21856 10/trunk/bzflag/ChangeLog: Update changelog for shot messages synchronized with position |
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| 16:28.31 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: 03blast007 * r21857 10/trunk/bzflag/misc/checkToken.php: Remove insecure/incomplete version of checkToken.php |
| 16:32.02 | blast007 | is someone going to update the perl and python query scripts to handle 2.3/2.4's protocol? If not, should I just pull 'em for the 2.4 release? |
| 16:32.15 | blast007 | I'm going to try to update the PHP one to support the new protocol |
| 16:32.40 | blast007 | and I *might* be able to get the Python one working but I really don't know Perl or Python |
| 16:34.01 | JeffM | if they don't get updated we yank em :) |
| 16:34.22 | JeffM | if someone complains then they fix em and we put em back in :) |
| 16:34.36 | blast007 | and I'm probably *just* going to support 2.4's protocol with the PHP one |
| 16:34.43 | JeffM | that makese sense |
| 16:34.44 | blast007 | if they want to query 2.0.x, they can get the old one |
| 16:34.47 | JeffM | yep |
| 16:34.59 | JeffM | they are just samples not finished tools |
| 16:35.09 | blast007 | not gonna bother to do some fancy detection and dual connects just to figure out which server protocol to use ;) |
| 16:35.18 | blast007 | yeah |
| 16:35.21 | JeffM | strayer has code that does that if they want it |
| 16:35.49 | blast007 | I think someone querying servers should already know the protocol to use |
| 16:36.04 | blast007 | we have it on the list, and if they're querying their own they should know what they're running |
| 16:36.30 | blast007 | the m.b.o site already asks specifically for 2.0.x servers when it queries |
| 16:36.44 | blast007 | not gonna worry about updating that |
| 16:38.19 | blast007 | hmm, anyone have an idea what misc/filter.txt is for? |
| 16:38.57 | trepan | a tupone'ism? |
| 16:39.07 | JeffM | yeah it has his name in it |
| 16:39.33 | trepan | already gone from 2.99.x |
| 16:39.33 | JeffM | is that like an ipTable type firewall rule? |
| 16:39.54 | blast007 | trepan: or it's in misc/samples/filter.txt |
| 16:39.58 | JeffM | he added it back in 2004 |
| 16:40.08 | JeffM | "rude (code) player filtering based on authentication and IP" |
| 16:40.36 | JeffM | is it a sample for some kind of banlist? |
| 16:40.40 | trepan | blast007: ah, you're right, used in bzfs/Filter.cpp:33 |
| 16:40.50 | JeffM | ahh |
| 16:41.02 | blast007 | okay |
| 16:41.13 | JeffM | pobably better to be placed on the wiki with actual docs on it's use :) |
| 16:41.28 | blast007 | guess I see that now, had to tweak my svn diff command to get it to show up right ;) |
| 16:41.35 | trepan | auxiliary ban system? |
| 16:41.40 | trepan | (is it needed?) |
| 16:41.44 | JeffM | I don' tknow |
| 16:41.50 | blast007 | I don't think anyone even knew about it |
| 16:41.52 | JeffM | it looks like it uses IP and auth status? |
| 16:42.07 | JeffM | is it something to lock a reged name to a specific IP/range? |
| 16:43.03 | blast007 | would be useful if we can do CIDR/subnet bans using that code though. Wildcards can be a pain when you're trying to ban a /20 :) |
| 16:44.21 | JeffM | pull the file, keep the code and make a note to refactor the useful parts into the ban system |
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| 16:45.23 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7717 10/w/Development_RoadMap: |
| 16:45.24 | blast007 | ok |
| 16:45.28 | JeffM | there is your note ;) |
| 16:45.34 | JeffM | for 2.4.2 |
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| 16:59.08 | JeffM | *sigh* and it's forum posts like that why doing "Cheat detection" clients is a bad idea. Nobody ever takes the time to understand what is happening... |
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| 17:05.06 | randomparticle | even high profile games are not without controversy surrounding hit registration (CSS): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuO2_naEe_I |
| 17:05.13 | JeffM | yeah |
| 17:05.25 | JeffM | thats why you end up with punkbuster |
| 17:05.33 | JeffM | but at least it has harder data to work on |
| 17:06.13 | JeffM | there is a good paper by valve on all the issues with various types of hit registration systems |
| 17:07.00 | randomparticle | barring new laws of physics, it's not a problem that lends itself to perfect solutions :--) |
| 17:07.16 | JeffM | nope |
| 17:07.25 | JeffM | but there are better solutions then what we have now :) |
| 17:07.33 | randomparticle | yeah |
| 17:09.42 | blast007 | JeffM: hmm, now I need to replace the shot.wav with someone yelling "BANG!" |
| 17:09.46 | blast007 | for the lulz |
| 17:09.49 | JeffM | heh |
| 17:10.00 | JeffM | you've seen the xbox comercial with that right? |
| 17:10.12 | blast007 | I think so - the one in the mall? |
| 17:10.18 | JeffM | train station |
| 17:10.27 | blast007 | yeah, probably that |
| 17:10.30 | JeffM | I think a FPS needs to be made like that |
| 17:10.36 | JeffM | and jsut call it "bang" |
| 17:29.04 | BulletCatcher | I have an eloquent "patches welcome" response prepared for Ghost. on the BZBB "admin client" thread. |
| 17:29.05 | BulletCatcher | If he were to choose to contribute, would we be able to find a framework for his (and perhaps Purple Panzer's) ideas that would not interfere too much with our development roadmap? |
| 17:29.31 | JeffM | it's not the code |
| 17:29.36 | JeffM | so no the patch is NOT welcome |
| 17:29.43 | JeffM | I could do what he wants in 20 min |
| 17:29.55 | JeffM | it's what having the feature in the mainline represents |
| 17:29.58 | JeffM | and the training |
| 17:30.07 | JeffM | we have what he wants in observer |
| 17:30.14 | JeffM | and it's a huge can of worms |
| 17:30.55 | JeffM | if we make a red light that turns of when a client thinks someone is speeding people will ban when it turns on |
| 17:30.59 | JeffM | but it WILL be wrong |
| 17:31.41 | JeffM | all that code assumes time is constant, and for your view of a remote player it is not |
| 17:32.38 | blast007 | bzfs -lagwarn 5 -lagdrop 1 |
| 17:32.40 | blast007 | solved! |
| 17:32.44 | JeffM | heh |
| 17:33.22 | BulletCatcher | We already have autokick for excessive overspeed. |
| 17:33.33 | JeffM | and it's wrong a lot |
| 17:33.41 | JeffM | that's why it has a huge fudge factor |
| 17:33.42 | blast007 | I had 98ms of lag on a Left 4 Dead 2 server and I was having trouble playing - though I think my wifi also had something to do with that ;) |
| 17:34.06 | blast007 | many games break down completely when you have > 150ms (or even sooner) |
| 17:34.07 | BulletCatcher | The tolerance is high enough that I haven't seen a problem with it. |
| 17:34.20 | JeffM | yeah and it's not getting the cheaters |
| 17:34.37 | JeffM | so it's rather useless for the stuff they want to look for |
| 17:34.39 | blast007 | also, when physics drivers are turned on, speed/height checks get turned off |
| 17:34.56 | JeffM | they are using it for subtle stuff, things that are all well within the realm of lag |
| 17:35.08 | BulletCatcher | Well, it stops some of the obvious cheating. |
| 17:35.14 | blast007 | or they just lie to the server :) |
| 17:35.15 | JeffM | it can |
| 17:35.24 | JeffM | but that's on the server |
| 17:35.26 | JeffM | not in a client |
| 17:35.32 | JeffM | I am all for more robust checks on the server |
| 17:35.40 | JeffM | that's where we have to go |
| 17:35.59 | blast007 | our current server-side checks doesn't even catch a lot of the obvious cheating |
| 17:36.04 | blast007 | don't* |
| 17:36.23 | JeffM | yeah sice the reported vector dosn't have to match the postions sent over time |
| 17:36.50 | JeffM | I could say I was moving 30mph but then have my packets come in and make it look like I'm moving 40mph |
| 17:37.01 | JeffM | based on the distance traveled over the server time |
| 17:37.09 | blast007 | they don't even need to mod the code to do that |
| 17:37.51 | JeffM | BulletCatcher, I get a couple questions a month from people just using the observer info. most of them are looking for a simple "yes this person is cheating" and it can never give that info |
| 17:38.11 | JeffM | thats why I'll say "no" every time someone asks me to look at a replay |
| 17:38.28 | BulletCatcher | Okay. I won't post the "patches welcome" message, then. |
| 17:38.43 | JeffM | it's a horrible term anyway :) |
| 17:38.49 | JeffM | it means we don't care about you |
| 17:38.50 | JeffM | and we do |
| 17:39.06 | JeffM | I feel bad that he has to ask for an admin client |
| 17:39.09 | BulletCatcher | My message is much more polite than that. |
| 17:39.09 | JeffM | it means we have failed |
| 17:39.33 | JeffM | I'm sure it was |
| 17:39.37 | JeffM | just as a concept I don't like it |
| 17:40.00 | JeffM | not a fan of people going off and doing a thing alone, I'd rather work with them as a group |
| 17:40.03 | BulletCatcher | But it is the reality of our project. |
| 17:40.09 | JeffM | yeah it is |
| 17:40.31 | JeffM | but if we scramble and make too many consessions we'll end up worse then we are now |
| 17:40.40 | JeffM | cus it's that attiude that got us where we are :) |
| 17:40.51 | BulletCatcher | I began with "BZFlag is an open-source project that is supported by volunteers who freely donate their time, creativity, and computer resources." |
| 17:40.54 | JeffM | I mean your idea of having a plan for 2.4 is working out awesome |
| 17:41.04 | JeffM | we need to do more of that :) |
| 17:41.28 | JeffM | yeah that statment is true, but not really the tone I like. That says "We don't have time for it" |
| 17:41.43 | JeffM | when what he really needs to understand is "That isn't the direction we want to go" |
| 17:42.02 | blast007 | JeffM: he won't understand that ;) |
| 17:42.21 | blast007 | he wants his cheat detector! |
| 17:42.58 | blast007 | cuz a detector is way better than a preventor, cuz it can detect unknown bugs and cheats that we wouldn't be able to build a detector for because they are unknown! wait. |
| 17:43.23 | JeffM | like if someone wants to turn bz into a word processor, we don't say "patches welcome" :) |
| 17:43.31 | BulletCatcher | lol |
| 17:43.44 | JeffM | blast007, I don't think he's that childish |
| 17:44.01 | blast007 | JeffM: you may be surprised ;) |
| 17:44.03 | JeffM | but yeah he really wants it and dosn't see that others would not be able to use it as well as he would |
| 17:44.17 | JeffM | he hasn't gotten pissy and his wording is ok |
| 17:44.20 | blast007 | he doesn't like me because I have a "known cheater" as an admin on my server |
| 17:44.27 | JeffM | so I think he's better then a 12 year old |
| 17:44.33 | blast007 | yeah |
| 17:44.34 | blast007 | he is |
| 17:44.49 | JeffM | sure he's opinionated but that dosn't make him childish |
| 17:44.50 | blast007 | he just goes a bit crazy about cheatesr |
| 17:44.56 | JeffM | I know other devs that get like that |
| 17:45.06 | blast007 | developers, developers, developers! |
| 17:45.14 | JeffM | then they go write leauge systems :) |
| 17:45.48 | JeffM | I'm just trying to respect his opions cus they are not wrong, just not right for the project |
| 17:45.52 | blast007 | yeah |
| 17:46.01 | blast007 | but I don't like that he seems to ignore what is said to him |
| 17:46.17 | JeffM | when your house is leaking you don't want the landord to just give you a bucket :) |
| 17:46.50 | BulletCatcher | One of the things I like about the BZFlag project is that we generally *do* provide people with the freedom to implement their, uh, innovative ideas. |
| 17:47.21 | BulletCatcher | Crazy maps, flags, etc. |
| 17:47.34 | BulletCatcher | Anyone can start their own league. |
| 17:47.58 | JeffM | indeed |
| 17:48.05 | JeffM | someone could make this tool |
| 17:48.08 | JeffM | someone has |
| 17:48.18 | JeffM | I just don't think our mainline is the place for that |
| 17:48.35 | blast007 | the tool would be less useful if it was public |
| 17:48.40 | JeffM | yep |
| 17:48.42 | blast007 | since the cheaters could test their code against it |
| 17:48.53 | JeffM | but keeping it hidden from ALL people is mean |
| 17:49.15 | JeffM | the people that have it should be willing to work with others assuming they feel they can use it responsibly |
| 17:49.57 | BulletCatcher | Well, the people who are concerned about cheating enough to develop such a tool tend to be paranoid about *everyone*. |
| 17:51.10 | JeffM | yeah tell me about it |
| 17:51.57 | JeffM | from a networking design standpoint anyone using bzflag for any kind of competion is silly to expect it to have constant results |
| 17:52.55 | JeffM | we'll get where we have to be at some point |
| 17:56.11 | *** join/#bzflag mdskpr_ (~mdskpr@108.25.145.104) |
| 17:58.54 | JeffM | so does anyone want to take a shot at backporting update notification? |
| 17:59.06 | JeffM | DTRemenak hasn't had time to work on it |
| 17:59.40 | JeffM | it would be REALLY nice to have and allow us to do more updates in the future with easier deployment |
| 18:01.29 | mdskpr_ | to notify users of new versions? |
| 18:01.33 | JeffM | yes |
| 18:01.56 | JeffM | trunk as a slick way of doing it and even downloads the isntaller for you on windows |
| 18:02.12 | blast007 | mdskpr_: just an FYI, but the push stats won't go into 2.4.0 - maybe 2.4.2 though |
| 18:02.15 | JeffM | soirry 2.99 |
| 18:02.19 | mdskpr_ | ok, blast |
| 18:02.31 | mdskpr_ | ill take a look at it jeff |
| 18:03.48 | JeffM | thanks |
| 18:04.15 | mdskpr_ | you wouldn't happen to know the revision numbers? |
| 18:04.25 | JeffM | no I do not |
| 18:06.04 | blast007 | mdskpr_: try looking here: http://static.bzexcess.com/bzflag_svn_log.txt |
| 18:06.18 | mdskpr_ | i have the log :) but thanks |
| 18:06.21 | blast007 | k |
| 18:07.03 | blast007 | if you can find the actual code in 2.99.x, do an svn blame on the file and you'll get an idea of the revision numbers |
| 18:07.04 | trepan | r12397 | dtremenak | 2006-01-28 12:21:49 -0500 (Sat, 28 Jan 2006) | 2 lines |
| 18:07.15 | trepan | (svn log NewVersionMenu.cpp) |
| 18:07.35 | mdskpr_ | thanks trepan |
| 18:08.07 | JeffM | I don't know how much of the new GUI it uses, if it's too hard we can stick with the cheezy method using MOTD |
| 18:08.07 | blast007 | would also be great if we didn't have to (ab)use the MOTD for update notifications - not sure if the 2.99.x has a "proper" method |
| 18:08.20 | JeffM | I belive 2.99 does it proper |
| 18:08.23 | blast007 | k |
| 18:08.28 | JeffM | that's why I want it evaled |
| 18:14.13 | Pimpinella | is featzre freeze scheduled on 14th or is that still a "commit day"? |
| 18:14.28 | JeffM | we'll say that is the last day for commits |
| 18:15.27 | Pimpinella | i do NOT have to backport any server side players stuff, right? |
| 18:15.41 | JeffM | no I did that |
| 18:15.50 | Pimpinella | oh |
| 18:15.56 | JeffM | you were just set for flags right? |
| 18:16.01 | JeffM | did you get the new message in? |
| 18:16.09 | Pimpinella | yep, that'll be finished in time |
| 18:16.15 | JeffM | then that's all we need |
| 18:16.18 | Pimpinella | not yet |
| 18:16.32 | Pimpinella | but i'll be done with it then |
| 18:16.34 | JeffM | the API for server side players is done good enough for cron |
| 18:16.46 | JeffM | but we don't really want to move back any more server side player data |
| 18:17.08 | JeffM | oh and after talking to DTRemenak I see why gm lock can't be in the player update |
| 18:17.17 | JeffM | updates arn't reliable |
| 18:17.21 | JeffM | and the GM lock message has to be |
| 18:17.52 | Pimpinella | so leave it in shot update? |
| 18:17.58 | JeffM | yeah |
| 18:18.13 | JeffM | in the end we'll just turn that update into a "GM change target" message |
| 18:18.19 | JeffM | and have the server do the actual updates |
| 18:18.29 | JeffM | but it will need to be it's own TCP message |
| 18:18.45 | JeffM | we can store it with the player eventualy |
| 18:18.57 | JeffM | but it has to be transmited like score |
| 18:20.18 | Pimpinella | i'm not familiar enough with that stuff again to understand that without consulting code ;) |
| 18:20.37 | JeffM | then don't worry about it |
| 18:21.04 | Pimpinella | the more i read the more comes back from the depth of my brain, but that'll need some more time |
| 18:22.22 | Pimpinella | then nothing has to be prepared to make radar markers in 2.4.x right? |
| 18:23.25 | blast007 | ooo, and here's one thing that would be nice to have in 2.4.0.. sort the team flag display on the radar and the top of the mouse box so that your own team flag has priority |
| 18:23.44 | blast007 | currently people can hide team flags by putting them in the same spot |
| 18:24.01 | JeffM | how risky is the change? |
| 18:24.11 | blast007 | shrugs |
| 18:24.18 | blast007 | just the rendering roder |
| 18:24.21 | blast007 | order* |
| 18:24.25 | JeffM | cus now's getting a little late for finding new things to add :) |
| 18:24.27 | JeffM | you want to do it? |
| 18:24.33 | blast007 | I was going to look into it |
| 18:24.41 | JeffM | k |
| 18:24.59 | mdskpr_ | JeffM: 2.4 already has NewVersionMenu. |
| 18:25.09 | JeffM | ok cool |
| 18:25.16 | Pimpinella | i might have time to make userdb be read recursivly to solve referencing groups issues |
| 18:25.20 | JeffM | where does it gets its' data from and is it the same as the one in 2.99? |
| 18:25.28 | JeffM | maybe DTRemenak did it and just didn't mark it off |
| 18:25.28 | blast007 | the same one? or a sucky windows-only one that uses the MOTD data? |
| 18:25.36 | blast007 | cuz we have an upgrade thing in 2.0.x |
| 18:25.37 | JeffM | yeah that's what needs to be checked |
| 18:26.14 | mdskpr_ | no, evidently it was carried over from 2.0.16 |
| 18:26.17 | JeffM | mdskpr_, you understand that I am asking for more then just the merge of a rev |
| 18:26.21 | JeffM | ok yeah I want it evaled |
| 18:26.28 | JeffM | and made like 2.99's if possible |
| 18:33.46 | mdskpr_ | I did a diff -u, on 2.4's NewVersion.cxx and 2.99.x's version of NewVersion.cxx and they were the same except for some new font stuff: http://pastebin.com/31kLRJgE |
| 18:34.33 | blast007 | that's probably just the actual interface too, not the stuff that actually determines if we should display that screen |
| 18:34.43 | JeffM | yeah find out where it gets the update info from |
| 18:34.53 | JeffM | foods |
| 18:37.08 | mdskpr_ | both 2.99.x and 2.4 get the update info from motd.cxx |
| 18:45.05 | blast007 | ok, kinda figured that was the case |
| 18:45.21 | mdskpr_ | is that bad? |
| 18:45.37 | blast007 | just means it's still crappy ;) |
| 18:48.29 | Erroneous | not crappy, that's the way it's supposed to work. it's flexible and doesn't require any additional net work. |
| 18:49.02 | Erroneous | and it means you can turn it off, direct it to different servers, etc, at the same time as the motd |
| 18:49.26 | Erroneous | the motd was intended for new version notification, among other things |
| 18:50.04 | Erroneous | 2.99's should use a real regex instead of the globber. those are the changes that should be moved. |
| 18:50.36 | mdskpr_ | yeah 2.99 does |
| 18:51.31 | Erroneous | I have them recorded as revisions 16230, 16232, 16233, 16235, 16236, 16395 |
| 18:51.49 | Erroneous | probably want to double-check that against svn logs |
| 18:51.59 | blast007 | k, real regex wouldn't be so bad then |
| 18:52.36 | blast007 | I just know it was "fun" when I was trying to add the notification for 2.0.16's release |
| 18:52.40 | Erroneous | the globber is really finnicky |
| 18:53.25 | Erroneous | you would have had to add separate notifications for each version you wanted notified, probably |
| 18:53.29 | blast007 | yeah |
| 18:53.41 | Erroneous | with the new stuff you can specify ranges |
| 18:53.50 | blast007 | I could glob for 2.0.0 -> 2.0.9, then I was like "meh" |
| 18:53.58 | Erroneous | heh :) |
| 19:00.03 | *** part/#bzflag Upsetter (~er@i59F6AFB4.versanet.de) |
| 19:15.55 | Thumper_ | blast007: I'll take a look at the scripts but won't have lots of time this weekend to work on it - The cutoff is Monday, does it need to be done before then? |
| 19:17.56 | blast007 | well, if they're not working by the time we release, we'll just pull them until 2.4.2 |
| 19:18.00 | blast007 | not a big deal |
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| 19:20.44 | blast007 | also I think the cutoff is Tuesday, right? |
| 19:23.32 | mdskpr_ | yup, the 14th |
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| 19:57.56 | RatOmeter | soooo, about how long does it take to be the COPPA forum permission form (emailed) approved? |
| 19:58.54 | JeffM | Tim does that |
| 19:59.13 | JeffM | if you have sent it in you can probably create the account |
| 19:59.22 | JeffM | the law just says we have to have it on file |
| 20:00.16 | blast007 | the forum would require manual activation though |
| 20:00.33 | JeffM | if the account has alraedy been made and was disabled |
| 20:00.36 | JeffM | and not deleted |
| 20:00.45 | JeffM | thats why I always just deleted them :) |
| 20:00.55 | blast007 | if it was created without lying, it would be disabled by default until it was approved |
| 20:01.00 | JeffM | ahh ok |
| 20:01.04 | JeffM | thats right php3 |
| 20:01.22 | blast007 | I think even phpBB2 did it that way, but I really can't remember anymore ;) |
| 20:01.34 | JeffM | it was suposed to, it often didn't work |
| 20:03.28 | JeffM | Still think it's simpler to disallow under 13 and make the kids have the parrents make the account for them |
| 20:03.31 | JeffM | then we arn't liable :) |
| 20:03.36 | blast007 | yeah |
| 20:03.52 | blast007 | I've pondered that thought for when we move registration out of phpBB |
| 20:03.54 | blast007 | less to code |
| 20:03.58 | JeffM | yeah |
| 20:04.10 | JeffM | just say "if you are under 13 have your parent make the account" |
| 20:04.20 | JeffM | then it's the parent's account and they let the kid use it |
| 20:04.23 | JeffM | then it's all on them |
| 20:04.25 | RatOmeter | I probably should have done that for my son |
| 20:04.30 | JeffM | it's a lot simpler |
| 20:04.51 | JeffM | cus you arn't giving him permision to play, you are giving us permision to store personal data for him |
| 20:05.00 | JeffM | if it's your info.. we are fine with that :) |
| 20:05.11 | RatOmeter | ah, well. This way he learns a lesson in bureaucracy ;) |
| 20:05.17 | BulletCatcher | There is only 1 account per e-mail address in phpBB, though, right? |
| 20:05.20 | blast007 | if the child posts information though, how does that work with the law? |
| 20:05.22 | JeffM | yeah |
| 20:05.31 | blast007 | BulletCatcher: right, but email accounts are free ;) |
| 20:05.37 | JeffM | tho most mail providers allow +extensions |
| 20:05.44 | blast007 | yeah |
| 20:05.45 | JeffM | parrent+kid@gmail.com :) |
| 20:05.52 | blast007 | I want to disallow stuff like that |
| 20:06.00 | blast007 | far too much abuse |
| 20:06.09 | blast007 | a lot of spammers do stuff like that |
| 20:06.17 | JeffM | you get the same abbuse they will just make new accounts |
| 20:06.36 | blast007 | still more work for them |
| 20:06.50 | JeffM | that aspect is probably automated |
| 20:06.52 | blast007 | I've had many instances where someone throws a random period in the first part of the email |
| 20:07.23 | blast007 | with gmail blah.whatever@gmail is the same as b.l.a.h.w.hatev.er@gmail |
| 20:07.29 | JeffM | but still you have to have diffeent email for coppa accounts too |
| 20:07.31 | JeffM | so it's moot |
| 20:09.01 | blast007 | yeah, I just want to (attempt to) ensure that people have a unique email account per bz account, and that it's not some disposable email account that we can't contact them through |
| 20:09.15 | JeffM | that would be nice |
| 20:10.38 | trepan | blast007: please reply to this email with the <name of the current bzflag maintainer> in subject? |
| 20:10.54 | trepan | too much? :) |
| 20:11.18 | blast007 | heh |
| 20:11.42 | blast007 | though we've already effectively killed off spammers with the two questions |
| 20:12.13 | blast007 | (and possibly some non-English speaking players......) |
| 20:12.25 | blast007 | s/speaking/reading/ ;) |
| 20:14.57 | RatOmeter | The kid just started playing BZ yesterday and already made his first CTF |
| 20:15.01 | RatOmeter | so proud ;) |
| 20:16.39 | BulletCatcher | By tomorrow he may be ready for the GU league! |
| 20:16.51 | RatOmeter | heh |
| 20:21.06 | JeffM | unless someone with an admin client says he's cheating and bans him :) |
| 20:21.24 | blast007 | but the light turned red |
| 20:21.32 | JeffM | it has to be true |
| 20:23.31 | RatOmeter | I'll just beat him it he cheats ;) |
| 20:23.35 | RatOmeter | s/it/if |
| 20:23.50 | jh` | so there are admin clients |
| 20:23.58 | JeffM | pff what does real cheating have to do with the dection of cheating? |
| 20:24.01 | jh` | "cheat detectors" |
| 20:24.21 | JeffM | some people have made extensions of the observer info we have |
| 20:24.24 | jh` | do they really work |
| 20:24.26 | JeffM | and they feel it gives them more info |
| 20:24.27 | JeffM | no |
| 20:24.31 | jh` | thought so |
| 20:25.09 | JeffM | they may be right some times |
| 20:25.14 | JeffM | and they will be wrong other times |
| 20:25.17 | RatOmeter | maybe for some really obvious cheats |
| 20:25.27 | JeffM | sure where the HUMAN EYE does the same thing ;) |
| 20:25.29 | RatOmeter | but then the other players probably know it too |
| 20:25.50 | JeffM | you can't use code that assumes constant time with time variant input |
| 20:26.24 | JeffM | the client code used to detect simulation errors assumes that the local players simulation is lagfree |
| 20:26.45 | jh` | what if it was server code |
| 20:26.47 | JeffM | if you move it's input over to use remote input it won't be as accurate |
| 20:26.58 | JeffM | if the server was able to keep a consistent state for everyone |
| 20:27.02 | JeffM | compare apples to apples |
| 20:27.07 | JeffM | thats what modern games do |
| 20:27.27 | JeffM | ether by delaying states, storing state history, or interpolation |
| 20:28.03 | JeffM | you can't compare my packets from now with your packets from 1 second ago, it won't give you an answer that ether of us have |
| 20:28.34 | RatOmeter | Think laser mania had some plugin to detect if you go through/into walls or move too fast. Had too many false positives IMO |
| 20:28.51 | JeffM | yeah a lot of those things have that problem |
| 20:29.00 | JeffM | thats why we need to fix the state up so everyone sees the same thing |
| 20:29.09 | jh` | but subtle cheats like thin tank is harder to detect |
| 20:29.10 | JeffM | then we'll have consistent data to compare |
| 20:29.22 | JeffM | yes cus that's all client side and highly subject to lag |
| 20:29.27 | JeffM | thats why the server should do the hit test |
| 20:29.31 | JeffM | and tell everyone you died |
| 20:29.54 | RatOmeter | yep, get rid of the invincible tanks |
| 20:29.57 | JeffM | mod your client all you want and you won't make your tank thin :) |
| 20:30.02 | JeffM | but that's a big change |
| 20:30.05 | jh` | yep |
| 20:47.16 | mdskpr_ | JeffM: how would I test the new version checking? |
| 20:47.53 | JeffM | set up a url with a fake newer version |
| 20:48.00 | JeffM | and have your local client connect to it |
| 20:50.47 | mdskpr_ | is motd different for different versions? |
| 20:50.56 | JeffM | dunno |
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| 21:00.53 | moiree | HUD marker for tanks stays colored with CB :) |
| 21:01.18 | JeffM | fun |
| 21:01.35 | JeffM | want to fix it? |
| 21:02.17 | moiree | If I can find it, why not? |
| 21:02.26 | JeffM | go for it |
| 21:02.32 | JeffM | it should all be the hudrenderer |
| 21:02.44 | JeffM | just check if they have CB and make the color gray or something |
| 21:09.02 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r21858 10/trunk/bzflag/ (3 files in 3 dirs): |
| 21:09.02 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: Rename NetHandler::getPlayerList() to getPlayerHostInfo() to reflect its new functionality, and have it return a std::string to prevent buffer overflow. |
| 21:09.02 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: Merge duplicate code in PlayerListCommand::operator() and use snprintf() to prevent buffer overflow. |
| 21:09.02 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: The new NetHandler::getPlayerHostInfo() method supports correct display of player callsigns. |
| 21:09.15 | BulletCatcher | That fixes the buggy /playerlist output. |
| 21:11.27 | CIA-103 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r21859 10/trunk/bzflag/misc/Makefile.am: Do not try to distribute the checkToken.php file that was removed in r21857. |
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| 22:13.21 | blast007 | BulletCatcher: whoops, I'll make a note to do that when I finish the rest of my misc/ cleanup :) |
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