IRC log for #bzflag on 20110628

00:00.44TD-Linuxteppic's blender plugins are way broken for blender 2.5
00:01.55TD-LinuxI've been using modeltool as a substitute
00:03.03ahs3-I've used blender, I just like wings3d better. seems to have more control
00:03.35TD-Linuxwhen I last used wings3d, it had less control :P
00:03.48ahs3-especially in the recent release of wings3d
00:03.49ahs3-lol
00:03.50TD-Linuxthe magic it uses for edge loops and stuff is really cool
00:03.58TD-LinuxI have a version installed
00:04.04TD-Linuxreleased in 2006
00:04.19ahs3-what was the latest wings3d you used?
00:04.31TD-Linuxthat
00:04.35ahs3-ah
00:04.46ahs3-lots of goodies since then
00:06.15TD-Linuxdoes it have uv mapping yet?
00:06.26ahs3-yes
00:07.28TD-LinuxI kind of hate the lack of decent topology editing tools in blender
00:08.14TD-Linuxediting meshes is the thing blender is least good at
00:10.52ahs3-Yes i agree
00:11.13ahs3-wings3d has come a long way
00:13.36*** join/#bzflag Thumper_ (~Thumper@about/essy/coffeeAddict/Thumper)
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00:14.38TD-Linuxpeople are trying to edit a new wings-like mesh data structure into blender, Bmesh
00:15.07TD-Linuxwith the exception of also handling non manifold meshes
00:15.51ahs3-ah
00:16.17CIA-5BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r0 10/w/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Treads BigFront.png]]"
00:17.28TD-Linuxin blender you can do really stupid things right now
00:17.31TD-Linuxlike faces with a hole in the center
00:17.56ahs3-my only complaint with wings3d, Is when your building a large complex object, the ability to 'shade' faces, so your mouse can't grab that face
00:17.58ahs3-ah
00:18.01ahs3-i've seen that
00:18.21TD-Linuxwings3d works so well because it limits its meshes to be enclosed and pretty tame
00:18.25ahs3-wings3d has an option for that, but no way to reverse it
00:18.35ahs3-ah yes
00:18.41TD-Linuxno floating vertices, no missing faces, no edges without faces attached
00:18.59ahs3-ah the early wings had that problem
00:19.05ahs3-but not in a while
00:19.07TD-Linuxit doesn't anymore?
00:19.10TD-Linuxthat's cool
00:19.14TD-Linuxit used to have a _hole_ material
00:19.23ahs3-ah yea, they removed that
00:19.24TD-Linuxthat you would assign to a face if you didn't want one there
00:20.19ahs3-wings3d is build for small objects, I usually build at scale in wings, which can get difficult
00:20.27mdskpr_ahs3-: did you update your server?
00:20.34ahs3-working on it now
00:20.35CIA-5BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7773 10/w/CustomTanks: /* Big Front */
00:21.09TD-Linuxhttp://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Dev:Source/Modeling/Bmesh
00:21.49CIA-5BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r0 10/w/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Treads Double.png]]"
00:22.12mdskpr_JeffM: your fix didn't work here : /
00:22.19JeffMk
00:22.19TD-Linuxyou have to use a new server
00:22.22mdskpr_i did
00:22.26TD-Linuxit works for me
00:22.37TD-Linuxare you using ahs3-'s map?
00:22.38JeffMmdskpr_, did you get the map source or do a save world?
00:22.43mdskpr_save world
00:22.47TD-LinuxI'm pretty sure a save world won't work
00:22.49JeffMthat won't do it
00:22.53ahs3-ah i'll send you the map mdskpr_
00:22.59mdskpr_thanks
00:23.00JeffMthat will burn the bad info into the map
00:23.43CIA-5BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7775 10/w/CustomTanks: /* Double */
00:23.44ahs3-np
00:23.56ahs3-TD-Linux, that sounds like wings to me
00:24.49TD-LinuxI'm sure there was plenty of inspiration going on
00:25.08TD-Linuxthe cycles it supports are identical
00:25.19ahs3-ah i see
00:25.38ahs3-will that replace blender gui or work with it?
00:28.46CIA-5BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7776 10/w/CustomTanks:
00:30.57CIA-5BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r0 10/w/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Treads Covered.png]]"
00:33.03TD-Linuxahs3-: it's only an internal representation
00:33.08TD-Linuxin theory replacing the old EditMesh
00:33.10TD-Linuxgui won't change
00:34.07ahs3-ah
00:34.07CIA-5BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r0 10/w/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Treads Open.png]]"
00:34.25CIA-5BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7779 10/w/CustomTanks:
00:34.55ahs3-proof of concept: http://briggs.zanqdo.com/nonmanifold3.avi
00:36.34mdskpr_JeffM: that image didn't work
00:37.37CIA-5BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7780 10/w/CustomTanks:
00:40.03blast007notices ahs3- says "ah" alot ;)
00:40.09blast007almost as much as I use emoticons!
00:40.36ahs3-lol
00:42.44CIA-5BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r0 10/w/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Tread Squish8.png]]"
00:44.27CIA-5BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r0 10/w/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:MetalSlugTank.jpg]]"
00:44.43CIA-5BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7783 10/w/CustomTanks:
00:55.09CIA-5BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r7784 10/w/CustomTanks:
00:55.15CIA-5BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 07http://my.bzflag.org * r0 10/w/Special:Log/upload: uploaded "[[Image:Popsci robotank.png]]"
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02:26.59JeffMblast007: you mean you don't always try to apply your cheat clients to new versions when they go into beta? :)
02:27.15blast007;)
02:29.15blast007JeffM: oh, and someone said we should make a DS version!  the controls totally work!
02:31.19JeffMyeah I responded
02:31.29JeffMcus the controlls were all I was waiting on!
02:31.40JeffMI just could not figure out that a d pad = movement
02:45.22McSpiderI now have a 32bit bzflag 2.3.17.app that works on other computers. I just can't upload it :/
02:45.44JeffMhow big is it?
02:46.17McSpider15.9MB compressed but my internet is falling apart
02:46.25JeffMcan you mail it to me?
02:46.30JeffMvia gmail
02:46.38JeffMI can upload it to the beta folder
02:46.49McSpiderprabably not
02:46.58JeffMk
02:47.14McSpiderI could try though
02:47.27JeffMmy nick here +2501@gmail
02:47.35JeffMgoes to get a pizza
02:48.35blast007JeffM: they're on satellite internet, iirc ;)
02:50.31McSpidercurrently thats not the problem, but rather that their capping us.
02:54.21blast007McSpider: so the high latency is enough punishment?  now they have to limit you too?  :)
02:54.26blast007isn't*
03:00.39McSpideryeah
03:00.47McSpiderthey suck, we even have a 88MB/hr cap
03:01.23JeffMand why do you do this?
03:01.46McSpiderbecause their greedy, or they oversold the sattelite
03:02.06JeffMno I mean, you.. to yourself
03:02.16JeffMthey have these things now called "wires"
03:02.18JeffMget some ;)
03:02.46McSpiderthey wont give them to us, we're to far outoff town
03:02.50JeffMmove
03:02.59McSpideryeah :)
03:03.00JeffMthat marconii crap is just a fad anyway
03:04.52JeffMyeah it came in as a zero byte file
03:05.10McSpidermhmm
03:06.21McSpiderI could send it to you on a disk, might be faster :P
03:07.08JeffMget brlcad to give me 800$ in bzflag money so I can buy a build mac :)
03:12.20JeffMdoes SF's build farm have macs?
03:13.40JeffMahh they got rid of it and went distributed
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05:13.06JeffMhttp://beta.bzflag.org/BZFlag2.3.17-20110627.app.7z  for some mac people to try out
05:13.46JeffMsorry http://beta.bzflag.org/bzflag-2.3.17-20110627.app.7z
05:32.35delusionalsuccess
06:02.57BulletCatcherThumper_: The r22026 LaserMania server is now missing the spawn pods, and still has the wall height set so it is visible above the border track.
06:02.59BulletCatcherA fresh map file ought to get it back to normal.
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07:19.39delusionalstarting to see client string that looks like this...    blogspot.com modded cheat client 2.0.16
07:24.56ruskiestart banning
07:34.56delusionalIt appears that their released binary package has been downloaded 23 times
07:35.09delusionalsince 6/26
07:36.01delusionalI wish i could put the client string in my badwords list
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10:57.34KTL"The case that you get caught with this ceat client is about 0.01% =]" <- the total idiot, saying that while making the client string that obvious
11:08.33Thumper_BulletCatcher: a fresh map file?  This is the version I'm running for 2.0.x
12:00.18delusionalIt looks like jeff's binary works with OSX 10.6 just fine. Tested on my mac and another player with a hackintosh.
12:01.22delusionalOSX 10.5 and presumably 10.4 are no-go  due to a library issue (Incompatible library version: BZFlag requires version 6.0.0 or later, but libcurl.4.dylib provides version 5.0.0).
12:02.25joevanoyep.. just worked for me as well
12:02.47joevanobut I have no 10.4 or 10.5 machines
12:11.43delusionalif that's the only issue, we should be able to get past it, for 10.5...... 10.4 is another matter.
12:11.48delusionaland ppc...
12:14.08PlasticTankWorks for me too
13:06.56*** join/#bzflag Marzipan- (~Marzipan@p5B22362F.dip.t-dialin.net)
13:08.24*** join/#bzflag Marzipan (~Marzipan@bzflag/player/Marzipan)
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14:21.21BulletCatcherThe cURL library version problem with the Mac .app could easily be solved by configuring with --enable-curl-build.
14:22.07BulletCatcherAnother problem on 10.4 is the absence of the p7zip program to uncompress the .7z file.
14:24.03*** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (~I_Died_On@unaffiliated/idiedonce/x-1828535)
14:26.39BulletCatcherThumper_: Any other ideas why the LaserMania map would be corrupted?  It looks normal when I serve it locally.
14:46.00*** join/#bzflag bier (~bier@p54A5AF2E.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:03.45BulletCatcherA likely problem in rabbit chase: anointNewRabbit() in bzfs.cxx does not move the former rabbit into the Hunter team.
15:03.46BulletCatcherIt looks like the client *does* do that on receipt of MsgNewRabbit.
15:04.40*** join/#bzflag randomparticle (~randompar@about/essy/snick/randomparticle)
15:15.49randomparticlei'm wondering why btcentralplus.com is rangebanned here
15:16.12randomparticlebt is one of the largest (> 4.8 million subscribers) ISPs in the UK
15:16.18*** join/#bzflag bier|tp (~bier@p54A5AF2E.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:16.38randomparticlei don't know how many people you're banning there, but it might be millions :-)
15:24.28*** join/#bzflag Upsetter (~er@i59F6D0B2.versanet.de)
15:35.48blast007randomparticle: "oops"
15:40.07randomparticlerandom fact: BT is the world's oldest telecom's company (supposedly!)
15:40.20randomparticle*telecoms
15:40.35blast007get off my lawn!
15:41.15randomparticletoo off topic?
15:44.34randomparticleMsgMessage messages now have a type field. what is the purpose of that?
15:48.56blast007to make action messages a first class citizen, not a cheap hack
15:49.41blast007previously, action messages (/me) were only formatted as such because we sent some oddly formatted string to the client
15:50.02blast007something like * player name here message here\t*
15:50.08blast007(where \t was a tab)
15:50.58randomparticleah, i see
15:51.57blast007and then the cheaters figured out you could send messages in that format from a modded client and make it look like someone else was talking :)
15:52.25blast007(so we had built some lame protection into bzfs after that)
15:55.38*** join/#bzflag JeffM (~JeffM@adsl-75-16-90-217.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net)
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15:56.19randomparticlei'm wondering what to do about tokens for my admin client
15:56.26randomparticlepresumably will need some sort of timeout
15:56.53randomparticlethe net event logic is quite intricate i've found
15:57.21randomparticlei.e., you can't block waiting for stuff, and you can't be sure certain stuff will happen
15:57.34randomparticleso there are lots of interesting little subproblems to solve
15:57.37JeffMjust do what weblogin does to get the token then send that to the server
15:57.56JeffMand state machines, learn them ;)
15:58.57JeffMso we are still no-joy on a working mac client?
15:59.36randomparticleis that addressed to me?
15:59.48JeffMthe first 2 lines
15:59.54JeffMthe last, probalby not
16:00.06blast007JeffM: supposedly the one that was uploaded works
16:00.16JeffMI got reports that it did not
16:00.19JeffMfrom delusional
16:00.30JeffMproblems with linked in libs
16:00.34randomparticlehave already used the weblogin method. just wondering how long to allow it to respond
16:00.36blast007delusional said it worked (unless his "success" was at something else) and joevano and PlasticTank could run it
16:00.48JeffMrandomparticle, up to you
16:01.05randomparticler.e., state machines, that brings back memories. finite state automata, linear bounded automata, turing machines etc etc.
16:01.21blast007< delusional> It looks like jeff's binary works with OSX 10.6 just fine. Tested on my mac and another player with a hackintosh.
16:01.30blast007< delusional> OSX 10.5 and presumably 10.4 are no-go  due to a library issue (Incompatible library version: BZFlag requires version 6.0.0 or later, but libcurl.4.dylib provides version 5.0.0).
16:01.31JeffMI didn't make it
16:01.57blast007< BulletCatcher> The cURL library version problem with the Mac .app could easily be solved by configuring with --enable-curl-build.
16:02.03blast007"Another problem on 10.4 is the absence of the p7zip program to uncompress the .7z file."
16:03.31McSpideryeah, it should be converted to a zip, I just used 7z because it compressed smaller.
16:04.02Thumper_BulletCatcher: no I can't explain it.  Running it locally for me shows the same problem as my public server
16:04.14randomparticlewhich program is this?
16:04.58Thumper_BulletCatcher: this is the map file I'm using: http://www.norang.ca/tmp/lasermania.bzw
16:05.32blast007randomparticle: bzflag.
16:06.20JeffMthis is the PM I got this morning, http://pastebin.com/MF4AxV2F
16:06.22blast007randomparticle: also, give the list server 30 seconds at most to respond - that's a pretty common timeout value
16:06.31randomparticlek
16:06.36JeffMI think 30 seconds is what I have the webserver do
16:06.42JeffMin the HTTP plugins
16:07.40JeffMcan someone repack the .app in zip and then I can repost it
16:07.48JeffMBulletCatcher, have you run the posted .app?
16:07.59blast007and if it times out, make sure to include a "Holy crap, monkeys ate the list server!" error message
16:08.01JeffMalso I care less about 10.4 but if it works there fine
16:08.12BulletCatcherI can't unzip .7z
16:08.29JeffMthere isn't a version of 7zip on the mac?
16:08.43randomparticlei'm on 10.6.7 with: /usr/lib/libcurl.4.dylib (compatibility version 6.0.0, current version 6.1.0)
16:09.03randomparticlei'll see if the 10.5 installer is on my disk
16:09.04BulletCatcherI would have to download the p7zip source and compile, and haven't bothered.
16:09.28JeffMif I unzip it and zip it on windows will it screw it up?
16:09.47BulletCatcherThumper_: "-set _wallHeight 16.56" in that map should have a value of 0
16:10.22McSpiderBulletCatcher: you dont have Unarchiver.app?
16:10.42Thumper_BulletCatcher: but where are the spawn pods??
16:11.24randomparticlethis is the libcurl in the installer /usr/lib for OS X 10.5:
16:11.28randomparticle<PROTECTED>
16:11.34Thumper_BulletCatcher: still looking at it
16:12.05BulletCatcherMcSpider: Unarchiver.app is not on my 10.4 system.
16:12.09Thumper_the 2.0.17 server on 5154 is using a cache file - bet that's the difference ... and the map file is being ignored
16:12.18JeffMI am uploading a zip now, we'll see if it works
16:12.33randomparticleBulletCatcher: otool -L /usr/lib/libcurl.4.dylib
16:13.35randomparticleone thing you could try (might be dangerous) is to change the compatability version number in the lib
16:13.45randomparticleman install_name_tool
16:14.18BulletCatcherrandomparticle: my libcurl.4 says compatability version 5.0.0
16:14.48randomparticlewhich matches the error message
16:15.29randomparticleso i'm wondering how 5.0.0 and 6.0.0 differ (apart from the number!)
16:16.01JeffMhttp://beta.bzflag.org/bzflag-2.3.17-20110627.app.zip
16:16.04JeffMtry that BulletCatcher
16:16.36BulletCatcherThumper_: Your file says "LaserMania Revision 8" but 10.3 is LouMan's last released version.
16:16.38Thumper_BulletCatcher: it's fixed. wrong map file
16:17.55BulletCatcherMuch better, now.  Thanks, Thumper_.
16:18.02Thumper_sorry about that :)
16:18.12BulletCatchernp
16:21.11randomparticlesomeone else with similar issue: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6363993/mac-os-x-libcurl-dylib-compatibility-version
16:21.54BulletCatcherI successfully uncompressed bzflag-2.3.17-20110627.app.zip, but its libcurl.4.dylib requires version 6.0.0 and I only have 5.0.0.
16:22.19BulletCatcherI suspect that if we built on Mac OS X 10.5 it would be ok.
16:22.43blast007build on OS9
16:23.10blast007ooo, and I have some OS7 floppies here too
16:23.25randomparticlei think it can be build on 10.6 correctly
16:23.55JeffMreally 10.5 is fine, if we end up with a bunch of 10.4 people we can do a build for them
16:24.02JeffMor update our package later
16:24.06randomparticle<PROTECTED>
16:24.12randomparticleand i'm running 10.6
16:24.30randomparticlethe linker needs to link to that
16:26.10randomparticlewhich base SDK did you specify?
16:42.27JeffMstill no web monkeys around that want to make me a beta page?
16:43.17McSpiderthat depends, what needs to be done?
16:43.37JeffMjust a page that looks in a folder for files and breaks them up by category
16:43.43JeffMsource, windows, mac, etc..
16:43.54JeffMso we can just upload them and have the page update
16:44.09McSpidermhmm, I think I could manage that.
16:44.29JeffMRSS for updates would be SUPER cool but I don't know how hard that is
16:45.31blast007how would it determine what category a file is?
16:45.46McSpiderparse the file name I guess
16:45.59blast007yeah, but that needs to be clearly defined ;)
16:46.04blast007sure, a .exe is easy
16:46.29blast007but we're also going to have 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Windows builds
16:46.48McSpiderotherwise catagorize them in folders, and give them appropriate names
16:47.27blast007JeffM: should uploads to it be via the web?
16:47.57JeffMblast007, how hard could that be?
16:48.12JeffMcus that would be nice, tie it to a weblogin groups
16:48.16blast007pretty easy
16:48.23JeffMthat'd be slick
16:48.32blast007you got MySQL on that system I assume?
16:48.44JeffMuhh yeah :)
16:48.53JeffMremember that was the bigest part of the backup
16:48.59JeffM3 gigs of drupal spam
16:49.00blast007oh right :P
16:49.03blast007hehe
16:49.14blast007I must have supressed that nightmare from my mind
16:49.58DTRemenak3 gbs was from elgg; drupal was only 30mb or so
16:50.11JeffMahh that's was it
16:50.35DTRemenakdropped that db and everything else was fine, just a few hundred megs
16:51.27blast007act now and get 500% more viagra spam in every open-source social network platform!! supplies limited!!
16:55.33DTRemenakdrupal was definitely worst for the mysql 5.0->5.1 upgrade though.  lots of manual ALTER TABLE required.
16:57.06randomparticle*thinks objective-C is the mutant offspring of COBOL and LISP*
16:57.51randomparticlethe method names are so long, you need a 20 foot wide monitor to see them
16:59.25JeffMyou can't really get a 3/4 display these days
17:00.06randomparticle:--)
17:00.13JeffMjust be sure to give apple 30%
17:03.46randomparticledon't know what to get for my next machine. am hating apple a lot lately, but i like *nix systems
17:04.13blast007Getting sued by Lodsys?  There's an app for that!
17:04.18JeffMso buy the same hardware apple ships, install your OS
17:04.31JeffMit's not like the mac is magic anymore
17:04.59randomparticleyeah. it's just, i don't trust power management under linux
17:05.05randomparticleit appears to be perpetually broken
17:05.06DTRemenakbuy a solaris box.  after being abused by oracle for a while, you'll think more highly of apple :)
17:05.13randomparticlehehe
17:05.19JeffMinstall windows and cygwin
17:05.31blast007or better, Windows and VirtualBox ;)
17:05.36randomparticleactually... i had solaris 10 in a VM and it scored higher on geekbench than the native OS
17:05.46randomparticlelike 25-30% higher
17:06.02blast007that's just because solaris is geekier than OSX
17:07.25randomparticlei used to love my sparcstation
17:08.04randomparticlefiguratively
17:08.07blast007has an Ultra10 system that he should just sell on ebay.. :P
17:08.18blast007or maybe it's an Ultra5.. I forget
17:08.43randomparticlehttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/SUN-Ultra5.jpg
17:08.54blast007needs a new hard drive and a new battery module thingy
17:09.29blast007but I have all the original solaris media for it ;)
17:11.34blast007guess it is a 10:  http://www.sunshack.org/data/sunpix/Ultra10.jpg
17:12.26randomparticlelooks like a nice sturdy machine, the type that wouldn't flex in a slight breeze
17:12.55Pimpinellado we plan to use a different build system in the future?
17:13.05Pimpinellalike cmake?
17:13.31JeffMpremake is being evaluated in a branch
17:13.48Pimpinellagoogles premake
17:13.48JeffMI'm not a huge fan of cmake, but premake seems to work out ok
17:14.38Pimpinellawhat's wrong with cmake?
17:14.54JeffMit's not intutive to configure on windows
17:14.57JeffMand often fails
17:16.46JeffMwith premake you just build premake then it builds you a native build system
17:18.14randomparticlei have to say i do find the gnu configure stuff pretty ghastly
17:18.48randomparticlei mean, you have to spend hours reading dozens of pages of documentation to be able to use it
17:19.35Pimpinellathe good thing about autoconf is that we have it working
17:20.44blast007if it ain't broke, toss some combustable lemons at it.
17:20.55Pimpinellabut the reason why i'm thinking about something different is, that besides autoconf there needs to be separate stuff for Windows and probably mac
17:21.18Pimpinellaand with cmake (and as far as i understand premake) you have ONE thing for ALL
17:21.31randomparticlemac-side the xcode project isn't much more than a wrapper
17:21.34Pimpinellaand that sounds far better than this
17:22.51Pimpinellarandomparticle: but you see mac needs extra care
17:23.39randomparticlei tried to add a framework to the mac build. nobody knew how to do that, and i couldn't figure it out after half an hour
17:24.01randomparticlein the end i just went into one of the makefiles configure had generated and added it by hand...
17:24.38randomparticleobviously that would get overwritten the next time configure is run, so it's not a good method
17:25.10randomparticlebut i don't want to spend 8 hours reading gnu documentation to do something that should be trivial
17:25.29randomparticlein visual studio it would be 5 second job
17:26.00JeffMbut you said you like *nix?
17:26.09JeffMthat's what THAT IS
17:26.16randomparticleno no!
17:26.16JeffMa pain and lots of typing
17:26.20randomparticlegnu isn't unix
17:26.32JeffMit's unix like with regards to pain ;)
17:26.33blast007neither is OSX :)
17:26.39blast007OSX != Unix
17:26.43blast007Linux != Unix
17:26.43Pimpinellathats why Jeff wrote *nix
17:26.48randomparticlegnu is the bastardization of unix principles. it's the complexity of emacs when the simplicity of vi should rule :-)
17:26.49JeffMF5 FTW
17:26.53blast007I'm replying to randomparticle who said "unix"
17:27.40JeffMwrite in .net and use monodev, one build system on all platforms. problem solved
17:30.10Pimpinellawell, gnu make and autotools are not actually young
17:30.29Pimpinellawhen they were they were top notch in software development ;)
17:31.15randomparticlewhen i was using AT&T System V in the 80s, a build system would typically be a single makefile with a dozen lines in it
17:31.33McSpiderJeffM: http://cl.ly/1R1J0g0H3m1B001w1x0q
17:31.42randomparticlenow we have this hideous sprawling overgeneralized porting system that spews out makefiles the size of houses
17:31.43JeffMrandomparticle, sure when you target a single platform you can do that
17:32.16JeffMMcSpider, looks pretty slick
17:33.03McSpiderit reads the files from ./downloads and uses regex to check the filename for os/source
17:33.11McSpiderregex isnt that good but it works
17:33.24JeffMk
17:33.47JeffMhave blast007 check it over, he's our services expert ;)
17:36.01McSpiderblast007: http://cl.ly/1P2G1y0M1M010a3j2i0C
17:37.58blast007hehe, guess I have cl.ly blocked from my server..Amazon S3
17:38.09randomparticlewhat's up with extended dashed box: http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1Qm7n0WOFOxPxJXMo450t74vVuh ?
17:38.15blast007I check it out later, McSpider
17:38.19randomparticlethat's in FF 3
17:38.42McSpiderI can also upload it somewhere else if you want
17:38.53blast007nah, that's fine
17:39.07blast007I can't really take a good look at it right now anway
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17:54.39blast007JeffM: maybe it should be more generic, like, builds.bzflag.org ;)
17:54.48JeffMthat's later
17:54.54JeffMI figured we'd test it out with beta
17:54.55blast007yeah  :)
17:55.03JeffMbut that is the logical extension
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18:14.49randomparticleweird. i have f(x)-1 where f(x)=0 evaluating to -4 in my program
18:15.38randomparticlei smell a bug
18:24.03joevanoThumper_: i liked Lasermania better before the pods anyway ;-)
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19:04.21randomparticlei have a pretty weird programming problem
19:05.04randomparticlei have an expression with a  -1 in it but the result i'm getting is as if i had written -4
19:05.37randomparticleand indeed, in the assembly, it is -4: sub    $0x4,%eax
19:08.49blast007k
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19:23.21randomparticleproblem was a misspelt declaration meaning integer arithmetic became pointer arithmetic
19:24.21randomparticleLLVM halted with an error, but GCC allowed it through
19:30.03Thumper_joevano: we have the older versions too... so we can do a flash back ;)
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22:36.10mdskpr_what is the maximum callsign length?
22:36.41McSpiderCallSignLen = 32;// including terminating NUL
22:36.57mdskpr_thanks spider
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23:58.24randomparticlebzadmin for ios: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1gfAyHifdA&hd=1

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