| 00:44.02 | *** join/#bzflag jh` (~janne.has@212-149-234-105.bb.dnainternet.fi) |
| 01:08.43 | *** join/#bzflag bier|tp (~bier@p54A59CBE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:08.45 | *** join/#bzflag bier (~bier@p54A59CBE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 02:00.54 | *** join/#bzflag a_meteorite (a_meteorit@unaffiliated/ameteorite/x-000000001) |
| 02:01.18 | a_meteorite | JeffM: any reason for closing http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=303248&aid=2979441&group_id=3248 ? Looking for a follow-up? |
| 02:47.16 | JeffM | you never answered the question on it about bots |
| 02:48.39 | JeffM | isn't a DDOS usualy stopped at the firewall level? not the application level |
| 02:55.44 | a_meteorite | Yeah I'll have to follow up on it, there were some issues, the patch was a stop-gap and the ticket was meant more for awareness then an actual fix |
| 02:56.04 | a_meteorite | The problem is that you can use up all the slots by connecting |
| 02:56.10 | a_meteorite | You don't need to do MsgEnter |
| 02:56.11 | JeffM | not exactly what patch tickets are for |
| 02:56.34 | JeffM | so it was closed |
| 02:56.36 | a_meteorite | It can't be fixed by a firewall unless you say, reject anymore than say, 20 connections from one IP |
| 02:56.59 | a_meteorite | But the flaw is that a connection without MsgEnter counts towards a used slot |
| 02:57.15 | a_meteorite | So it's quite easy to denial of service a server by just firing up 200 connections |
| 02:57.15 | JeffM | yeah cus that's how networking works |
| 02:57.40 | JeffM | the player handling code won't work untill it gets a slot |
| 02:58.04 | JeffM | I don't think we can delay the slot untill enter happens |
| 02:58.06 | a_meteorite | IMHO, the model should be that unlimited connections can be made (excepting the OS limit, of course) |
| 02:58.27 | JeffM | sure but that's a change in a LOT of places |
| 02:58.29 | a_meteorite | And slots don't enter the picture until MsgEnter and all that jazz |
| 02:58.30 | JeffM | and not just a patch |
| 02:58.32 | a_meteorite | Yup |
| 02:58.43 | a_meteorite | That's why I never attempted it, that's a HUGE refactoring |
| 02:58.59 | JeffM | non player connectiosn change it a bit |
| 02:59.01 | a_meteorite | That patch mostly fixes it, and doesn't carry any issues, if you remove one part of it |
| 02:59.03 | a_meteorite | iirc |
| 02:59.11 | a_meteorite | I'd need to look at it again |
| 02:59.22 | JeffM | if you don't send the connect string you don't get a slot |
| 03:00.19 | JeffM | yeah I'm not a fan of the "same" IP deal, it'll get screwwy with bots and possibly NATs |
| 03:00.29 | JeffM | how often does this DDOS happen in the wild? |
| 03:00.41 | a_meteorite | It happened quite a bit when I opened the ticket |
| 03:00.47 | *** join/#bzflag QuantumBeep (~QuantumB@cpe-76-186-97-233.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 03:00.47 | JeffM | and since then? |
| 03:00.50 | a_meteorite | I recall blast007's server was hit and some others |
| 03:01.09 | JeffM | non player connections could be used to do the same thing with a plugin |
| 03:01.13 | a_meteorite | Dunno, but it surely wouldn't have stopped because of any technical measures against it |
| 03:01.13 | JeffM | and be optinal |
| 03:05.28 | a_meteorite | not sure how that'd work but I haven't really looked at the new-ish stuff |
| 03:06.00 | JeffM | I'm adding an event that will let you apply that logic in a plugin |
| 03:06.07 | a_meteorite | Ah |
| 03:06.08 | JeffM | it's too shakey to add to the main game |
| 03:06.37 | a_meteorite | That should work great |
| 03:07.47 | JeffM | ]bz_eAllowConnection |
| 03:12.14 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r22101 10/trunk/bzflag/ (include/bzfsAPI.h src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx): add bz_eAllowConnection event to let plugin remove a connection before it's given player status or sent to the non player handler ( before host resolution) |
| 03:12.50 | JeffM | that should solve your need and not make the main codebase less useful for others. |
| 03:15.53 | JeffM | so that is why the patch was closed, it was not the right fix ;) |
| 03:16.12 | JeffM | I figured if anyone still cared about the patches I closed, they'd speak up and we come to better solutions |
| 03:19.57 | a_meteorite | Well I think this is a better solution |
| 03:19.59 | a_meteorite | Thanks |
| 03:20.10 | JeffM | no prob |
| 03:21.00 | JeffM | at some point we'll get to int IDs |
| 03:21.54 | a_meteorite | That'd be nice |
| 03:25.50 | JeffM | so would lots of things |
| 03:26.41 | a_meteorite | Always wanted some ponies in BZ... not there yet, but maybe one day |
| 03:27.26 | a_meteorite | Seriously though the recent work has definitely improved a lot of things and I have a lore more confidence in the continuation of BZ than I did before |
| 03:27.43 | a_meteorite | And any continuation of the project means a better chance for cool things than if it had not |
| 03:28.00 | JeffM | we'll see how it goes |
| 03:28.28 | JeffM | so far it does not seem to be moving along with out lots of pushing |
| 03:29.28 | a_meteorite | I'll put a bit of blame on myself, there's a lot of little things I'd like but I never get around to them, especially now with this UCSB internship |
| 03:30.55 | JeffM | good sammiches in Isla Vista |
| 03:31.19 | a_meteorite | indeed |
| 03:32.12 | a_meteorite | the whole experience here has been great though, did a lot for me. |
| 03:32.23 | a_meteorite | getting out of the house |
| 03:33.03 | JeffM | always a good thing |
| 03:51.33 | blast007 | a_meteorite: mine was done via a distributed attack on Tor |
| 03:51.42 | blast007 | so I just blocked tor |
| 03:52.07 | *** join/#bzflag Juest (~Juest@unaffiliated/juest) |
| 03:52.50 | Juest | hi, wired bug (not sure) in 2.4, SuperBullets appear as some kind of lasers, why? |
| 03:53.01 | Juest | hello? |
| 03:53.04 | JeffM | because that's what they do |
| 03:53.14 | Juest | really? |
| 03:53.17 | JeffM | yep |
| 03:53.24 | Juest | because in older it was normal |
| 03:53.28 | JeffM | yep |
| 03:53.30 | Juest | shape changed? |
| 03:53.31 | Juest | :( |
| 03:53.33 | JeffM | yep |
| 03:53.41 | JeffM | it's now super :) |
| 03:53.53 | Juest | i think it's worse than older :( |
| 03:53.55 | JeffM | if you go to high quality from exp. it'll go back to the old one |
| 03:54.03 | Juest | kk |
| 03:54.19 | Juest | but i want exp. i have a hd gpu -.- |
| 03:54.30 | JeffM | they go together |
| 03:54.32 | Juest | how to short the shape? |
| 03:54.36 | Juest | i need source? |
| 03:54.45 | JeffM | yeah |
| 03:54.48 | blast007 | lower the shot length setting in the effects menu |
| 03:54.56 | JeffM | does that do it for SB? |
| 03:55.00 | blast007 | yeah |
| 03:55.06 | JeffM | has to be 0 right? |
| 03:55.16 | blast007 | probably |
| 03:55.16 | Juest | no, i checked, it just unlight it |
| 03:55.21 | blast007 | it would at least be shorter |
| 03:55.37 | Juest | is not shorter, is less lighten |
| 03:55.48 | Juest | why? |
| 03:55.53 | blast007 | what? |
| 03:55.57 | JeffM | who? |
| 03:56.05 | Juest | and how 2.99.x going? |
| 03:56.07 | Juest | -.- |
| 03:56.10 | JeffM | it isn't |
| 03:56.19 | JeffM | next version is 2.4.2 |
| 03:56.25 | Juest | wow |
| 03:56.36 | Juest | so 3.0 never arrives? |
| 03:56.43 | Juest | what's trunk version? |
| 03:56.43 | JeffM | it may |
| 03:56.47 | JeffM | 2.4.1 |
| 03:56.51 | Juest | in.... |
| 03:56.59 | JeffM | we don't do reelease dates |
| 03:57.03 | Juest | :( |
| 03:57.14 | JeffM | 2.99 was pushed back because it had stalled, 2.4 is based on 2.0 |
| 03:57.15 | blast007 | we'll have it out by the time the asteroid hits |
| 03:57.17 | Juest | and auto updater works? |
| 03:57.22 | blast007 | or shortly thereafter |
| 03:57.27 | Juest | lol |
| 03:57.34 | JeffM | update notification should work, yes |
| 03:58.00 | blast007 | once I turn it on, anyway |
| 03:58.04 | JeffM | indeed |
| 03:58.14 | JeffM | probably after services move |
| 03:58.14 | Juest | i prefer 3.0 -.- |
| 03:58.14 | Juest | in 2.0.14 it does nothing, no notif |
| 03:58.27 | JeffM | nobody was working on 2.99 |
| 03:58.46 | JeffM | we will ether continue 2.4 to 2.6 or get back on 2.99 and make 3 |
| 03:58.51 | blast007 | Juest: the update notification wasn't turned ON, yet |
| 03:59.01 | JeffM | depends what people want to do when the time comes |
| 03:59.17 | Juest | and no hud? |
| 03:59.17 | Juest | the irc thingy..... |
| 03:59.17 | Juest | d'oh |
| 03:59.17 | Juest | okkkkkkkkk |
| 03:59.17 | Juest | but it works? |
| 03:59.17 | Juest | in 2.4 |
| 03:59.24 | Juest | after 2.6, 3? |
| 03:59.31 | JeffM | probably |
| 03:59.37 | JeffM | if it survives that long |
| 03:59.39 | blast007 | ooo, can we just make it a Left 4 Dead 2 mutation? they have tanks. |
| 03:59.43 | Juest | or still 2.x? |
| 03:59.46 | Juest | lol |
| 03:59.50 | JeffM | read the roadmap |
| 03:59.56 | Juest | where? |
| 04:00.05 | JeffM | look in the channel topic |
| 04:00.06 | blast007 | topic |
| 04:00.13 | Juest | dóh! |
| 04:00.35 | Juest | got it |
| 04:00.39 | blast007 | Juest: think you mean the 'hub' too, not 'hud' |
| 04:00.44 | Juest | oh... |
| 04:00.46 | blast007 | the HUD is the Heads Up Display |
| 04:00.48 | Juest | yeah |
| 04:00.54 | Juest | lulz :/ |
| 04:00.55 | blast007 | the hub is a lua based chat thingy |
| 04:00.58 | JeffM | all that code is saved in a branch |
| 04:01.04 | Juest | ah okkk |
| 04:01.08 | JeffM | so we can pull it into whatever release we want to |
| 04:01.13 | Juest | just wasn't remembering |
| 04:01.27 | Juest | hope in 2.5 we got hub |
| 04:01.36 | JeffM | probably not |
| 04:01.37 | blast007 | 2.5 isn't a release version that will come out |
| 04:01.59 | blast007 | 2.5 would be the development version that would come out as 2.6 |
| 04:02.18 | blast007 | the hub requires major changes to the game |
| 04:02.34 | blast007 | specifically integrating lua :) |
| 04:02.44 | JeffM | indeed |
| 04:16.46 | *** join/#bzflag Juest (~Juest@unaffiliated/juest) |
| 04:19.21 | Juest | k |
| 04:19.35 | Juest | so 2.4.1? or 2.6? |
| 04:19.51 | Juest | who still wants 2.x? |
| 04:20.06 | JeffM | 2.4.1 is development for 2.4.2 |
| 04:20.14 | JeffM | 2.6 may be the next breaking version |
| 04:20.21 | Juest | almost nobody wants to dev 3? |
| 04:20.21 | JeffM | or we may go back to 3.0 |
| 04:20.29 | JeffM | nobody did in the past 5 years |
| 04:20.31 | Juest | ok, then 2.4.2 -.- |
| 04:20.37 | Juest | :( |
| 04:20.39 | JeffM | that's why we took a step back and made 2.4 |
| 04:20.40 | Juest | and 2.x? |
| 04:20.47 | JeffM | you mean 2.0.x? |
| 04:20.58 | Juest | not only that |
| 04:21.38 | JeffM | 2.0.x is old, 2.4.x is incompatable with 2.0.x, 2.6 would be what we would make if we choose to keep adding to the 2.4.x line and need to break protocoll |
| 04:21.47 | JeffM | the second number defines the compatability |
| 04:22.03 | Juest | uhhh, this sux a lot |
| 04:22.08 | JeffM | ? |
| 04:22.18 | Juest | well, there's any net improvements? |
| 04:22.33 | JeffM | new you mean? |
| 04:22.50 | Juest | because i am lagging a lot on a 300 kbps in poor wifi, it works like a modem |
| 04:22.50 | JeffM | 2.4 has some backported features from 2.99 |
| 04:22.57 | Juest | 7? |
| 04:23.00 | JeffM | yeah wifi can suck |
| 04:23.02 | JeffM | use a wire |
| 04:23.03 | Juest | &?* |
| 04:23.10 | Juest | can't |
| 04:23.15 | blast007 | sucks to be you then |
| 04:23.21 | JeffM | nothing in our code will fix your lag over wifi |
| 04:23.22 | Juest | not mine + no router access |
| 04:23.23 | blast007 | we can't fix your crappy wifi |
| 04:23.59 | blast007 | "not mine" as in, you're leeching internet off your neighbor? |
| 04:24.14 | JeffM | with that disco rate.. yes ;) |
| 04:24.17 | blast007 | he can't even maintain an IRC connection... |
| 04:24.24 | *** join/#bzflag Juest (~Juest@unaffiliated/juest) |
| 04:24.31 | Juest | sorry were disconnected |
| 04:24.41 | blast007 | we noticed |
| 04:24.47 | Juest | yeah.... |
| 04:24.48 | JeffM | if you can't maitain IRC then the connection is bad enough that you should not play games |
| 04:24.54 | JeffM | nothign we do will change that |
| 04:24.56 | Juest | ok, |
| 04:25.07 | JeffM | but yes networking changes are planed for probably 3.2 |
| 04:25.10 | Juest | there's sommething, getting closer wifi :P |
| 04:25.24 | JeffM | or stop stealing it from the guy across the street |
| 04:25.40 | Juest | not stealing, is an hotel |
| 04:26.01 | Juest | going closer to wifi : | |
| 04:26.08 | JeffM | then that is temporary |
| 04:26.40 | Juest | because it's late, i cannot go to business room where i get the besst signal.... :P |
| 04:26.45 | blast007 | hotels I've been at have the option of paying for wired internet.. |
| 04:26.55 | Juest | -.- |
| 04:27.27 | Juest | this one not |
| 04:27.27 | Juest | is Surf Rider in FL |
| 04:27.27 | Juest | 33061 |
| 04:28.39 | Juest | so, finally in 2.6 lua + hub.... |
| 04:28.53 | JeffM | maybe |
| 04:28.59 | JeffM | if 2.6 is done |
| 04:29.12 | Juest | the road goes tooo far |
| 04:29.38 | JeffM | or not far enough |
| 04:30.02 | Juest | so, there's a chance that some of the things are not applied or plans change..... |
| 04:30.23 | JeffM | well you obviously haven't been listening |
| 04:30.46 | JeffM | IF we decide to coninue from 2.4 we will have 2.6, if we decide to go back to 2.99 we will have 3.0 |
| 04:31.28 | blast007 | or there's plan C: <game engine here> mod |
| 04:31.37 | JeffM | that could happen at any time |
| 04:31.48 | JeffM | I think we'd do a 2.6 before doing engine work |
| 04:31.49 | Juest | finally, tk off + super ffa |
| 04:31.49 | Juest | why JeffM? |
| 04:31.49 | Juest | i were listening -.- |
| 04:31.49 | Juest | why not far enough? |
| 04:32.05 | JeffM | and probably a 3.0 or something where we split out sim |
| 04:32.16 | JeffM | cus we hav to do that before an engine is used |
| 04:32.55 | JeffM | Juest, because it only goes to v5 or so |
| 04:33.30 | Juest | k, i get it now, so major marks engine changes? |
| 04:33.30 | Juest | lol blast007 |
| 04:33.30 | Juest | any mods out there? |
| 04:33.30 | Juest | ?? |
| 04:33.36 | JeffM | no |
| 04:33.44 | JeffM | major marks any big feature changes |
| 04:33.47 | Juest | oh |
| 04:33.47 | JeffM | mods? |
| 04:34.20 | blast007 | game engine mods, and no - there is not any attempts to make BZFlag as part of a game engine mod as far as I know |
| 04:34.29 | JeffM | there was one |
| 04:34.30 | Juest | well, changes to the game, just graphics an things like that but not cheating clients... |
| 04:34.31 | JeffM | for CS |
| 04:34.35 | JeffM | twas HOORRIBLE |
| 04:34.37 | Juest | oh? |
| 04:34.43 | Juest | really? |
| 04:34.43 | blast007 | well, yeah, that |
| 04:34.51 | blast007 | wasn't really what I was meaning though |
| 04:34.53 | Juest | well, bz for cs/hl? |
| 04:35.00 | JeffM | no, crystal space |
| 04:35.01 | Juest | or cs in bz? |
| 04:35.05 | Juest | ugh |
| 04:35.07 | JeffM | not counterstrike |
| 04:35.11 | JeffM | that'd be silly |
| 04:35.16 | Juest | don't know that game :P |
| 04:35.21 | blast007 | it's not a game |
| 04:35.23 | JeffM | it isn't a game |
| 04:35.23 | blast007 | it's a game engine |
| 04:35.24 | JeffM | it's an engine |
| 04:35.31 | Juest | i keep interpreting cs as counter |
| 04:35.31 | JeffM | too slow :( |
| 04:35.35 | Juest | :O |
| 04:35.36 | JeffM | of course you do |
| 04:35.38 | Juest | never know it |
| 04:35.42 | Juest | lol |
| 04:35.58 | blast007 | so do some people that join the IRC channel for Cascading Style Sheets... |
| 04:36.02 | Juest | any webpage? or is gone for good? |
| 04:36.19 | blast007 | for the engine, or our attempt to use it for BZFlag? |
| 04:36.22 | Juest | thats css -.- |
| 04:36.23 | blast007 | they're both online |
| 04:36.33 | JeffM | it is in a branch in SVN IIRC |
| 04:36.33 | Juest | engine |
| 04:36.33 | Juest | and attempt xD |
| 04:36.38 | Juest | whoa |
| 04:36.51 | Juest | url? is source right? |
| 04:36.56 | JeffM | yes |
| 04:36.59 | JeffM | are you 12? |
| 04:37.14 | Juest | umm, the build proccedure is different? |
| 04:37.33 | JeffM | not knowing what OS or even what you are talking about, I'll say "sure" |
| 04:37.36 | blast007 | umm, yeah. |
| 04:37.39 | Juest | I 'm 17 DamnIt -.- |
| 04:37.42 | blast007 | cuz, like, you need a game engine |
| 04:37.46 | JeffM | dosn't seem like |
| 04:37.49 | Juest | im on windows 7 -.- |
| 04:37.59 | JeffM | doubt it builds on windows |
| 04:38.06 | JeffM | I never kept the proejcts updated |
| 04:38.15 | Juest | vc++9 ee works? |
| 04:38.20 | JeffM | probably not |
| 04:38.31 | Juest | because vc++9ee used to work with DSDK |
| 04:38.38 | Juest | dxsdk* |
| 04:38.47 | JeffM | for current versions of bzflag sure |
| 04:38.47 | Juest | 2008 |
| 04:38.51 | Juest | ah\ |
| 04:38.56 | JeffM | for old ones that were built by a linux guy, not so much |
| 04:38.58 | blast007 | don't even bother trying to build the CS version |
| 04:38.59 | Juest | but that engine? |
| 04:39.09 | blast007 | it likely doesn't even work |
| 04:39.13 | Juest | before 2.x? |
| 04:39.16 | JeffM | yes |
| 04:39.21 | JeffM | this was like 3-4 years ago |
| 04:39.23 | Juest | oh |
| 04:39.24 | Juest | ah |
| 04:39.32 | blast007 | it was a 2.0.x fork iirc |
| 04:39.38 | blast007 | or was it 2.1? |
| 04:39.39 | JeffM | yeah an early fork |
| 04:39.43 | JeffM | don't remember |
| 04:39.45 | Juest | ok, byes....., well, not really :P |
| 04:40.29 | Juest | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:40.47 | JeffM | nope |
| 04:41.01 | JeffM | read the change log |
| 04:41.14 | Juest | Getting your server listed on the server list |
| 04:41.14 | Juest | [edit] Generating and managing server keys |
| 04:41.24 | JeffM | ahh that key |
| 04:41.24 | Juest | the titles at wiki |
| 04:41.31 | JeffM | you need to be a bit more specific |
| 04:41.33 | Juest | server hosting.... |
| 04:41.42 | JeffM | use your words..... |
| 04:41.46 | Juest | welll |
| 04:42.17 | JeffM | yes 2.4 requires a public key to be listed in the server list |
| 04:42.28 | JeffM | but no it does not use it's keyboard entry system for keypresses |
| 04:42.33 | Juest | like 2.99.x used to be |
| 04:42.44 | Juest | how's that? |
| 04:43.01 | Juest | the keyboard entry system for keypresees... |
| 04:43.01 | JeffM | how's what? |
| 04:43.06 | JeffM | nevermind |
| 04:45.58 | *** join/#bzflag Juest (~Juest@unaffiliated/juest) |
| 04:46.09 | Juest | Finally |
| 04:46.19 | Juest | two disconnects :( |
| 04:47.56 | Juest | ok, by just using vc++9 + DXSDK i can build properly any 2.1+ bzflag from svn? |
| 04:48.06 | JeffM | 2.4 should build fine |
| 04:50.14 | blast007 | 2.1 is not the version you'd want |
| 04:50.16 | blast007 | 2.4 is |
| 04:51.15 | Juest | ok, but, i was saying the starting version for vc++9ee + dxsdk usage as minimium requirements..... |
| 04:51.29 | Juest | to build. |
| 04:51.30 | JeffM | yes that is all you should need |
| 04:52.12 | JeffM | we include the rest in src/other |
| 04:52.14 | JeffM | for now |
| 04:52.28 | Juest | ?? |
| 04:52.50 | JeffM | we may require other dependencies later |
| 05:39.28 | BulletCatcher | When accepting a SF patch, should the submitter be added to the code contributors section of the AUTHORS file? |
| 05:39.36 | JeffM | yes |
| 05:39.53 | JeffM | we want everyone to feel loved |
| 05:39.58 | BulletCatcher | :-) |
| 05:41.01 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r22102 10/trunk/bzflag/ (AUTHORS configure.ac): Accept SF patch 3295565 from bsmith-, fuzzed as needed, for improved OpenBSD configure support. |
| 05:41.04 | JeffM | it should be noted that no actual love will be felt but we want them to think there is. |
| 05:44.06 | BulletCatcher | They may feel loved, even if we don't feel loving. |
| 05:44.15 | JeffM | true |
| 05:44.20 | JeffM | love can be unidirectional |
| 05:49.02 | BulletCatcher | War Pig posted a tiny fix to BZBB, but never followed up on SF. |
| 05:49.06 | BulletCatcher | The change (< to <=) does fix the flag tracking problem. |
| 05:49.07 | BulletCatcher | Should I just give credit to his callsign? |
| 05:49.25 | JeffM | sure |
| 05:54.02 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03bullet_catcher * r22103 10/trunk/bzflag/ (AUTHORS src/bzflag/Roaming.cxx): |
| 05:54.02 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: Allow observers to track the last remaining team flag on the map. |
| 05:54.02 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: Thanks to player War Pig for the fix. |
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| 16:49.38 | randomparticle | Jul 31 01:03:38 BZFlag[687]: CPSSetForegroundOperationState(): This call is deprecated and should not be called anymore. |
| 16:49.38 | randomparticle | Jul 31 01:03:38 BZFlag[687]: CGDisplayBaseAddress is obsolete and returning NULL for display 0x424cd74 |
| 16:50.01 | randomparticle | OS X 10.7 |
| 16:50.01 | JeffM | is that called in SDL? |
| 16:50.07 | randomparticle | second one is i think |
| 16:50.39 | randomparticle | obviously, you'd be hoping that would be fixed by the SDL people |
| 16:50.51 | JeffM | if it's called by SDL we can't fix it |
| 16:51.03 | JeffM | odd that apple would break the API |
| 16:51.11 | randomparticle | odd, but not unusual :) |
| 16:51.12 | blast007 | Think Different |
| 16:51.36 | JeffM | does a premade bin work on 10.7? |
| 16:52.06 | randomparticle | seems to, but i'm getting periodic freezes |
| 16:52.10 | randomparticle | never had that before |
| 16:52.18 | randomparticle | can force quit, but there's no crash dump |
| 16:52.35 | blast007 | so you get that above message only when you build the game yourself? |
| 16:52.36 | JeffM | so sounds like they just changed the platform SDK they ship with 10.7 |
| 16:52.39 | randomparticle | have been considering possible ways to force generation of a crash log during freezes |
| 16:53.07 | blast007 | run it in GDB over SSH and 'break' ? :) |
| 16:53.08 | randomparticle | maybe i should run it windowed for a bit |
| 16:53.22 | randomparticle | then i can access programs outside and sample the stack |
| 16:53.44 | JeffM | it eats all input when it dies? |
| 16:54.28 | randomparticle | not entirely. cmd+opt+q forces a quit |
| 16:54.44 | randomparticle | but nothing else seems to work. can't switch to another app, for example |
| 16:54.54 | JeffM | oh that's right the fullscreen window is topmost on OSX |
| 16:54.56 | blast007 | JeffM: is there any need for the old wiki data? |
| 16:54.58 | JeffM | yeah try a window |
| 16:54.59 | randomparticle | sry: cmd+opt+esc |
| 16:55.01 | JeffM | blast007, god no |
| 16:55.15 | randomparticle | what does break do blast? |
| 16:55.21 | randomparticle | is it a bash built-in? |
| 16:55.28 | blast007 | notice I said 'GDB' |
| 16:55.33 | randomparticle | ah, ok |
| 16:55.35 | blast007 | :) |
| 16:55.48 | randomparticle | over ssh i could attach |
| 16:55.56 | randomparticle | assuming it would let me :) |
| 16:56.11 | randomparticle | but i don't have another machine to ssh in from here |
| 16:56.38 | blast007 | if you bought a PC you could have afforded two or more ;) |
| 16:56.45 | randomparticle | i've got some code that can intercept low level keyboard events and probably do what is required |
| 16:56.45 | JeffM | CPSSetForegroundOperationState does not seem to be in the source tree |
| 16:56.51 | JeffM | so yes it is probably SDL |
| 16:57.06 | randomparticle | dunno if that's causing the freezing or something else |
| 16:57.26 | blast007 | CPSSetForegroundOperationState seems like it was deprecated even on 10.5 |
| 16:57.45 | JeffM | you could try the 1.3 beta for SDL |
| 16:57.47 | randomparticle | i can't see any pattern to it yet. can play for an hour or two, no problem. then another time freezes a few times in a few minutes |
| 16:58.02 | randomparticle | ok, i will try the beta |
| 16:58.48 | JeffM | but yes, we don't have any way to overide stuff in SDL so it is not that we "hope" it will be fixed, it has to be fixed by them |
| 16:59.33 | randomparticle | if i do a default ./configure, with no options, it just bombs out when i launch it |
| 16:59.46 | randomparticle | i have to set the developer SDK to 10.6 |
| 16:59.58 | JeffM | you will have to debug and see |
| 17:00.12 | randomparticle | i don't really understand this choice of SDKs |
| 17:00.12 | JeffM | that's what software development is all about |
| 17:00.30 | blast007 | "bombs out" isn't helpful :) |
| 17:00.37 | randomparticle | if i compile with 10.6 and give to a person running 10.7, can they run my program? |
| 17:00.46 | JeffM | they should |
| 17:00.48 | randomparticle | that is developer SDK 10.6 |
| 17:00.59 | randomparticle | obviously that has a different set of libraries in it |
| 17:01.00 | JeffM | usualy they give you old SDKs so that you can have compatability |
| 17:01.05 | JeffM | 10.7 should be backward compatable |
| 17:01.13 | JeffM | the runtime contains multiple libs |
| 17:01.22 | randomparticle | but would an ordinary person have the 10.6 libs for backwards compatability? |
| 17:01.39 | randomparticle | am thinking it might work for me, because i have the developer libs installed. maybe not for something without those |
| 17:01.45 | randomparticle | *someone |
| 17:01.49 | JeffM | you are overthinking it |
| 17:02.05 | JeffM | if 10.7 didn't ship with older libs then no exisiting software would run |
| 17:02.23 | JeffM | if you build against 10.6 then you are good for10.6 or HIGHER |
| 17:02.44 | JeffM | unless apple has made it so everyone has buy software again with each release |
| 17:02.53 | randomparticle | so where are these libs kept? |
| 17:03.05 | JeffM | in the system somewhere |
| 17:03.22 | JeffM | probably in runtime packages |
| 17:03.37 | JeffM | windows keeps all the various runtimes in the windows or WOW folders |
| 17:05.26 | JeffM | you may want to see about taking a class on OSs for programers to get a better handle on the differences between them |
| 17:06.53 | JeffM | and yeah it's SDL, a simple google search shows that, http://forums.libsdl.org/viewtopic.php?t=7254&sid=510653b8cc935449c392356deb17beab |
| 17:09.10 | randomparticle | who would offer such a class, do you think? |
| 17:09.57 | JeffM | it's a standard class for most CS degree programs |
| 17:10.08 | randomparticle | i already have 3 CS degrees |
| 17:10.16 | randomparticle | but we mostly covered mathematics |
| 17:10.31 | JeffM | then you didn't take the right path to do real programing ;) |
| 17:10.36 | randomparticle | the theoretical aspects. not the day to day nitty gritty of where such and such a lib is found |
| 17:10.51 | JeffM | yes you took CS theory, aka uselessness for day to day |
| 17:10.58 | JeffM | you take assembly? |
| 17:11.38 | randomparticle | not much i think. we're going back a long time here |
| 17:11.55 | randomparticle | anything like that would have been illustrative |
| 17:12.09 | JeffM | how long ago? |
| 17:12.16 | JeffM | cus I took mine in 1990 |
| 17:12.20 | JeffM | and it helped a lot |
| 17:12.27 | randomparticle | a little bit before that |
| 17:12.28 | JeffM | showed me how the computer works inside |
| 17:13.03 | randomparticle | we did briefly cover some basics, circuit design, some programming etc. |
| 17:13.17 | JeffM | sounds more like EE work then CS |
| 17:13.18 | randomparticle | but mainly it was all about NP completeness and so on |
| 17:13.28 | JeffM | that's algorythms |
| 17:13.44 | JeffM | yeah probably didn't have the courses together back then |
| 17:14.16 | randomparticle | most of the lecturers & profs were mathematicians |
| 17:14.25 | randomparticle | that's how it used to be |
| 17:14.33 | JeffM | indeed |
| 17:14.37 | JeffM | now not so much |
| 17:14.41 | randomparticle | yep |
| 17:14.45 | JeffM | http://bugzilla.libsdl.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1215 |
| 17:14.51 | randomparticle | thanks |
| 17:14.52 | JeffM | that's the SDL bug ide |
| 17:14.56 | JeffM | it hasnt' been fixed |
| 17:17.36 | randomparticle | sigh. they're using another version control system |
| 17:17.56 | JeffM | hg is pretty easy to use |
| 17:18.11 | blast007 | and it's all nice and shiny |
| 17:18.11 | randomparticle | they're sprouting up all over the place. git, svn, hg, baazar |
| 17:18.15 | randomparticle | where will it end? |
| 17:18.22 | JeffM | it won't |
| 17:18.26 | randomparticle | was so much simpler when it was mostly cvs :) |
| 17:18.27 | blast007 | next tuesday |
| 17:18.38 | JeffM | except that CVS sucked |
| 17:20.10 | randomparticle | i'll grab the tar ball |
| 17:21.16 | randomparticle | have you ever looked at a mac os system log? |
| 17:21.37 | randomparticle | it's amazing how many warning and errors there are in a typical one |
| 17:21.38 | JeffM | both git and hg started about the same time, when the free version of bitkeeper was removed. |
| 17:22.29 | randomparticle | hg is a better name |
| 17:23.02 | randomparticle | 'git' in uk english refers to a grumpy annoying person |
| 17:23.35 | JeffM | so it's perfect for the linux kernel developers ;) |
| 17:23.40 | randomparticle | hehe true |
| 17:24.00 | blast007 | git er done!! |
| 17:25.09 | randomparticle | talking of grumpy people, here's stallman receiving divine retribution: |
| 17:25.10 | randomparticle | http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2011-07/msg01155.html |
| 17:25.33 | randomparticle | emacs violates the GPL :--) |
| 17:26.16 | JeffM | yes we all read slashdot from a few days ago |
| 17:26.34 | randomparticle | good to hear someone still reads slashdot |
| 17:26.44 | JeffM | not that anyone should |
| 17:28.01 | blast007 | emacs isn't violating the GPL |
| 17:28.39 | JeffM | but it's a slashdot headline, it is FULLY researched and true, it would never be changed to be sensasionalist and cruel!!!! |
| 17:29.22 | blast007 | yeah, of course not |
| 17:29.42 | randomparticle | in the sense that emacs, as a non-person, is not capable of being held culpable? |
| 17:30.00 | randomparticle | or in the other sense? |
| 17:30.03 | JeffM | has to go find another virus to inject into the builds |
| 17:30.07 | blast007 | randomparticle: the copyright holder of something cannot violate a license that they applied to their work |
| 17:30.44 | blast007 | it is only those that are redistributing emacs that are (through no fault of their own) violating the GPL :) |
| 17:30.58 | randomparticle | who is a copyright holder in the case of GPL? |
| 17:31.09 | JeffM | whoever applied the GPL to the work |
| 17:31.15 | blast007 | the license is irrelevant to copyright |
| 17:31.15 | randomparticle | i see |
| 17:31.33 | blast007 | in the case of BZFlag, for instance, copyright is to TimRiker |
| 17:31.37 | randomparticle | if you make a small change and redistribute, do you become a copyright holder? |
| 17:31.51 | JeffM | the copyright holder decides what licenses if any the work is used under |
| 17:31.54 | blast007 | he could release a closed source version if he wanted |
| 17:31.55 | JeffM | no |
| 17:32.05 | JeffM | you are distributing under a liceense |
| 17:32.10 | randomparticle | i see |
| 17:32.10 | JeffM | you do not own bzflag |
| 17:32.10 | blast007 | you own the copyright on your changes |
| 17:32.23 | JeffM | byt you can give it out to anyone cus Tim is a nice guy |
| 17:32.47 | randomparticle | if he turns nasty though, i could still give it out? |
| 17:32.55 | randomparticle | i.e., it can't be revoked? |
| 17:32.57 | blast007 | when we contribute to the bzflag source repo, we assign the copyright to tim |
| 17:33.02 | JeffM | he can not change the license on released software |
| 17:33.04 | blast007 | and no, you can't revoke the GPL |
| 17:33.23 | blast007 | he could stop releasing future versions as LGPL, but then we'd just fork the game ;) |
| 17:33.26 | JeffM | blast007, techincaly we give tim a non exlusive unreserved license |
| 17:33.34 | randomparticle | what's the situation w.r.t. linking non-(L)GPL libs to bzflag? |
| 17:33.39 | blast007 | yeah, whatever it's called :) |
| 17:33.42 | JeffM | links are fine |
| 17:33.50 | JeffM | bzflag is lgpl and that works |
| 17:33.59 | JeffM | you only have to release the sources for mods to bzflag |
| 17:34.04 | randomparticle | i was guessing that couldn't be a problem, since it must link to many different sys libs anyway |
| 17:34.08 | JeffM | if those mods link in another lib thats different |
| 17:34.15 | randomparticle | and you don't know what licenses may apply to those |
| 17:34.16 | JeffM | bzflag links in closed source libs all the time |
| 17:34.35 | JeffM | visual C++ runtimes, direct X, things in OSX etc... |
| 17:34.40 | randomparticle | yeah |
| 17:34.51 | blast007 | even for GPL, I think that would be fine if it was necessary for it to work on, say, Windows - right? |
| 17:34.55 | JeffM | the copyright only extends to the work published |
| 17:34.57 | JeffM | yeah |
| 17:34.58 | blast007 | system libs, I mean |
| 17:35.08 | JeffM | since those libs are Not part of the distroubtion |
| 17:35.18 | JeffM | they are not released under that license |
| 17:35.42 | JeffM | also there are laws for how copyright works on APIs and interfaces etc.. |
| 17:35.47 | JeffM | or at least rulings |
| 17:36.38 | randomparticle | I've used a modified version of the manymouse code with this license: http://code.google.com/p/ofxmanymouse/source/browse/trunk/lib/LICENSE.txt?r=2 |
| 17:36.56 | randomparticle | i've kept that code in a separate lib i call from bzflag |
| 17:37.17 | randomparticle | the lib just provides the unmodified mouse deltas |
| 17:37.31 | JeffM | that's 3 cllause bsd IIRC |
| 17:37.39 | randomparticle | as compared to the OS modified pointer deltas that SDL gets |
| 17:38.48 | randomparticle | if you want OS independent mouse handling, i'd say it's worth a look at that code |
| 17:39.21 | randomparticle | description page: http://code.google.com/p/ofxmanymouse/source/browse/trunk/lib/README.txt?r=2 |
| 17:39.32 | JeffM | I want a simulation system that dosn't suck |
| 17:40.52 | randomparticle | i'm thinking of writing a program that measures how far, in metres (inches if you like), i move my mouse every day |
| 17:41.01 | randomparticle | just out of curiosity |
| 17:41.08 | JeffM | those exist |
| 17:42.58 | randomparticle | hmm.. there's this one here: http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/7869/mouse-distance-measurer |
| 17:43.15 | randomparticle | will only be accurate if they take account of dpi though |
| 17:44.15 | randomparticle | $20 sounds a bit steep, but the mouse cheese logo is cute :--) |
| 17:46.18 | randomparticle | btw: if you ever wondered what happens if you play with an upside-down mouse: http://www.life.com/gallery/22561/image/50665849 |
| 17:49.34 | Thumper_ | JeffM: I'm working on the bzfscron plugin but getting a segfault during my testing |
| 17:49.48 | JeffM | gdb |
| 17:49.54 | Thumper_ | Gamekeeper.cxx:94 calls netHandler->setPlayer((PlayerInfo*)this,_playerIndex); |
| 17:50.02 | Thumper_ | four lines up from that you do this |
| 17:50.06 | Thumper_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:50.11 | Thumper_ | is that right? |
| 17:50.21 | JeffM | nope |
| 17:51.08 | Thumper_ | I have no idea how to fix that |
| 17:52.39 | Thumper_ | I'm stepping out for 30 minutes - back later |
| 17:57.02 | JeffM | no idea... really? |
| 17:57.47 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03JeffM2501 * r22104 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/GameKeeper.cxx: don't set the NetHandler player when we don't have a NetHandler (server side bots) |
| 18:27.12 | randomparticle | ok, just had a freeze with SDL 1.3 |
| 18:27.26 | Thumper_ | JeffM: thanks. Yes really. I wasn't sure if a NetHandler was supposed to exist or not for server side players |
| 18:27.37 | JeffM | no it does not |
| 18:27.43 | JeffM | they don't have a socket |
| 18:27.58 | Thumper_ | There's a couple of other places where bzfs uses player->netHandler without checking if the pointer if valid first - I'll fix those |
| 18:28.24 | JeffM | k |
| 18:28.31 | JeffM | what are they doing? |
| 18:28.42 | JeffM | cus if they are sending info we may need an API into the bot |
| 18:29.18 | JeffM | ugg.. really wish we had removed playing.cxx:3098 |
| 18:30.55 | Thumper_ | checking hostbans, reasons to kick, and doing reverseDNS lookups |
| 18:31.02 | JeffM | oh ok |
| 18:31.12 | Thumper_ | bzfscron loads and it's 'ticking' :) but I haven't had it do anything useful yet |
| 18:31.18 | JeffM | yeah those will probably never be hit but yeah check agains the null anyway |
| 18:31.34 | Thumper_ | they are hit by bzfscron - got segfaults on each of the ones I fixed |
| 18:31.38 | Thumper_ | 3 so far |
| 18:31.43 | JeffM | ok good |
| 18:31.54 | JeffM | SSPs should never be banned :) |
| 18:32.07 | Thumper_ | aww! ;) |
| 18:33.25 | JeffM | we may need to set a hardcoded IP and hostmask for them when admins want an IP list |
| 18:33.47 | JeffM | 0.0.0.0 and server.local probably |
| 18:34.33 | blast007 | hostmask isn't necessary |
| 18:35.03 | blast007 | and should they even show up on an IP list? |
| 18:35.05 | JeffM | it is never displayed? |
| 18:35.14 | JeffM | no, but I don't know if there is a way to remove them from it |
| 18:35.19 | blast007 | it is, but it isn't required |
| 18:35.23 | JeffM | k |
| 18:35.24 | blast007 | not all IPs have reverse DNS |
| 18:35.28 | JeffM | true |
| 18:35.33 | blast007 | our code already handles that |
| 18:35.36 | JeffM | but it may be nice to flag them with a specific string |
| 18:35.41 | JeffM | so admins know |
| 18:35.49 | JeffM | otherwise the look just like players |
| 18:36.18 | blast007 | could just show "SSP" instead of an IP |
| 18:36.23 | Thumper_ | Am I supposed to see the server side player in teh score list or /playerlist? |
| 18:36.29 | JeffM | if we send a string, sure |
| 18:36.42 | Thumper_ | because I don't |
| 18:36.45 | blast007 | JeffM: that's all we send, it's a message |
| 18:36.49 | JeffM | ahh |
| 18:36.57 | blast007 | hmm, though there is the IP info stuff too |
| 18:37.03 | blast007 | but that may also be a string |
| 18:37.04 | JeffM | Thumper_, you probably never have spawned |
| 18:37.15 | Thumper_ | I haven't I'm an observer |
| 18:37.30 | JeffM | then it should do whatever other observers do |
| 18:37.36 | JeffM | if not then we are missing some messages :) |
| 18:38.20 | Thumper_ | I join the server, bzfscron is loaded, but it looks 'normal' as in without SSPs |
| 18:38.20 | JeffM | errands. bbl |
| 18:38.28 | Thumper_ | but I'm getting messages from cron |
| 18:38.35 | *** join/#bzflag brad0 (~Adium@ram.home.comstyle.com) |
| 18:44.01 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03bthansen * r22105 10/trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx: |
| 18:44.01 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: Server side players don't have a NetHandler |
| 18:44.01 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: Check that the pointer is valid before using it. |
| 19:01.36 | *** join/#bzflag KTL (~KTL@85.234.201.66) |
| 19:39.49 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (~JeffM@adsl-76-195-156-18.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 19:39.49 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v JeffM] by ChanServ |
| 19:56.05 | CIA-5 | BZFlag: 03Thumper 07http://wiki.bzflag.org * r7897 10/DevelopmentPlans/2.4.2: /* Features */ |
| 21:07.23 | moiree | fix typo in playing.cxx <https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3383333&group_id=3248&atid=303248> |
| 21:21.43 | JeffM | what is the #def for? |
| 21:23.44 | JeffM | do we ever build with ROBOT not set? |
| 21:24.31 | moiree | default is --enable-robots |
| 21:25.09 | JeffM | seems like a silly option does anyone ever disable it? |
| 21:25.17 | moiree | Yes :) |
| 21:25.41 | JeffM | why? |
| 21:25.54 | moiree | Why not? |
| 21:26.06 | *** join/#bzflag Juest (~Juest@unaffiliated/juest) |
| 21:26.06 | JeffM | because it dosn't buy you anything |
| 21:26.32 | Juest | hey guys, i hate the wierd new exp mode :( |
| 21:26.38 | moiree | Duscussing this is more effort than to fix the typo ;) |
| 21:26.40 | JeffM | then don't use it |
| 21:26.58 | Juest | why? i want exp because i got an hd card -.- |
| 21:26.59 | JeffM | moiree, I know, I want to fix it by removing all the #ifdef ROBOT calls |
| 21:27.18 | Juest | JeffM.... |
| 21:27.30 | JeffM | Juest, that's why it's EXPERIMANTAL |
| 21:27.35 | JeffM | not STANDARD |
| 21:28.00 | Juest | uhhhhh, no, in 2.0.14 it was way much better, now is way too wierd |
| 21:28.05 | JeffM | ok |
| 21:28.09 | JeffM | then don't use it |
| 21:28.19 | JeffM | most of what was in exp in 2.0 got moved into high in 2.4 |
| 21:28.22 | moiree | JeffM: When your on it, can you fix the tab vs. space issues as well ;) |
| 21:28.35 | JeffM | moiree, no, not really |
| 21:28.36 | Juest | ok, |
| 21:29.02 | Juest | will the new experimental mode going to be changed in 2.4.2? |
| 21:29.18 | JeffM | don't know |
| 21:29.21 | JeffM | probably not |
| 21:29.24 | Juest | :| |
| 21:29.30 | Juest | :S |
| 21:29.32 | JeffM | in 2.4.4 it may get new death effects |
| 21:29.45 | Juest | O.o |
| 21:30.09 | moiree | likes the experimental mode, except the flabby flags |
| 21:30.30 | Juest | does high mode still haves static flags and non invert fancy sw's? |
| 21:30.50 | JeffM | I don't remember what I moved down, try it and see |
| 21:31.30 | Juest | loves experimental mode, but he hates the 2.4 one -.- he prefer's the 2.0.14 one :) |
| 21:31.38 | JeffM | ok |
| 21:31.53 | JeffM | there are always some people that don't like the changes we made |
| 21:32.00 | Juest | WTF!, "then don't use it" |
| 21:32.02 | Juest | :P |
| 21:32.13 | Juest | Cya :s |
| 21:32.29 | JeffM | we can't please everyone |
| 21:32.34 | Juest | uhhhh |
| 21:32.36 | Juest | so? |
| 21:32.48 | JeffM | that is why it is an option |
| 21:33.06 | Juest | since when there's 64-bits bzflag version? |
| 21:33.15 | JeffM | on what OS? |
| 21:33.17 | Juest | win |
| 21:33.29 | JeffM | since I made one for 2.4 |
| 21:33.35 | Juest | oh |
| 21:33.46 | JeffM | you really don't understand this concept of "change" and "new release" dosn't you? |
| 21:33.47 | Juest | so it's just now.... |
| 21:33.53 | Juest | i do :( |
| 21:34.09 | Juest | cya |
| 21:34.36 | JeffM | yes, for this release I made a 64 bit configuration |
| 21:34.47 | JeffM | linux has been building 64 bit for a long while |
| 21:49.21 | brad0 | In that regard Win/OS X is playing catch up to most other OS's. |
| 21:52.55 | JeffM | there has been a 64 bit version of windows for a long time |
| 21:53.02 | JeffM | I just never felt the need to make one |
| 21:53.02 | Juest | ah |
| 21:53.18 | JeffM | but when I redid the build system it became very easy to do so |
| 21:53.20 | JeffM | so I did |
| 21:53.27 | Juest | osx is already x64, it's universal..... |
| 21:53.34 | Juest | wow |
| 21:53.38 | JeffM | 64 bit dosn't make it faster |
| 21:53.41 | Juest | lol |
| 21:53.45 | JeffM | just lets it use more then 2 gigs of ram |
| 21:53.49 | Juest | yes |
| 21:53.54 | JeffM | and bz dosn't use anywhere near that |
| 21:53.57 | Juest | 4gb limit |
| 21:54.27 | Juest | get win7 ultimate x64, you will be amazed of memory limit :P |
| 21:54.28 | JeffM | 2 for apps that arn't large byte aware, and most 32 bit OSs limit apps to 3 gigs, leaving a gig of address space for devices |
| 21:55.00 | brad0 | some are even less. |
| 21:55.10 | JeffM | yeah |
| 21:55.16 | JeffM | that's why 2 is a common limit |
| 21:56.04 | JeffM | I'm not sure how bzflag would handle large amounts of data, there were a lot of places where size_t gets cast to an int |
| 21:56.11 | Juest | doing 64bits versions are good for x64 system |
| 21:56.18 | JeffM | not always |
| 21:56.26 | Juest | why not? |
| 21:56.36 | JeffM | in some cases the 32 bit version of bz runs faster on 64 bit OSs |
| 21:56.37 | brad0 | anyway, for the OS's I'm speaking about 64-bit is not an option. so the apps run or not. |
| 21:56.43 | brad0 | and thus have to be 64-bit clean. |
| 21:56.45 | Juest | oh |
| 21:57.07 | JeffM | because the 64 bit build uses pointers that are twice as large, so that's more memory to pass around, and many 64 bit CPUs can do 2 32 bit things at a time |
| 21:57.19 | Juest | and? |
| 21:57.41 | JeffM | when you can do 2 things at time as oposed to 1 it's faster |
| 21:57.52 | Juest | i got a c-50 dual core amd it haves 1gbhz |
| 21:58.05 | JeffM | you must be very proud |
| 21:58.11 | Juest | yeah :) |
| 21:58.22 | Juest | a great netbook |
| 21:58.42 | Juest | acer aspire one 772-BZ454 |
| 21:58.45 | Juest | :) |
| 21:58.57 | JeffM | you must be very happy that bzflag dosn't use much in the way of graphics then |
| 21:59.04 | Juest | 2gb ddr3 ram |
| 21:59.06 | Juest | oh lol |
| 21:59.40 | brad0 | Ya. netbooks leave a lot to be desired for decent graphics performance, especially if its an Intel GPU. |
| 21:59.43 | JeffM | you'd have to test it but the 32 bit one may run faster on that hardware then the 64 bit one |
| 21:59.45 | Juest | is an amd/ati radeon hd internet 6250 |
| 21:59.57 | Juest | atom sux |
| 22:00.33 | Juest | netbooks are too far from decent gpu if it haves intel |
| 22:00.52 | brad0 | and I don't mean anything cutting edge.. just netbooks with intel gpus are practically useless. |
| 22:00.52 | Juest | so ati wins as most decent gpu :) |
| 22:00.56 | Juest | ah\ |
| 22:00.58 | Juest | yeah |
| 22:01.11 | Juest | ati wins.... |
| 22:01.26 | JeffM | I'm sure your research was exaustive |
| 22:01.30 | brad0 | I'm an ATI guy anyway and have been since their start. |
| 22:01.39 | Juest | oh lol |
| 22:01.59 | Juest | i am an nvidia + ati guy x |
| 22:02.00 | brad0 | Intel GPUs are garbage anyway. |
| 22:02.01 | Juest | xD |
| 22:02.04 | Juest | yeah |
| 22:02.25 | brad0 | and NVIDIA is a big no no. ugh. |
| 22:02.27 | Juest | most things run in low quality if intel gpu is detected |
| 22:02.37 | Juest | why brad0? |
| 22:02.59 | Juest | why is a big nono? |
| 22:03.29 | Juest | nvidia is decent as ati |
| 22:03.37 | brad0 | buggy hw, no documentation, no decent open source X drivers. |
| 22:03.59 | JeffM | they work fine for me in ubuntu |
| 22:04.03 | Juest | uh, seems little support for xwindow? |
| 22:04.30 | JeffM | there is a difference between an xwindows driver, and an open source driver, some people care about the diff |
| 22:04.38 | Juest | brad0 better ask at #linux |
| 22:04.48 | JeffM | and yes AIT does a better job at a clean open source driver |
| 22:04.53 | Juest | oh |
| 22:05.08 | JeffM | never has need to modify his drivers |
| 22:05.08 | Juest | so intel sux >P |
| 22:05.08 | brad0 | I don't use binary blobs. |
| 22:05.08 | Juest | :O |
| 22:05.17 | JeffM | makes binary blobs ;) |
| 22:05.20 | Juest | lol |
| 22:05.28 | Juest | loves android. |
| 22:05.32 | Juest | lol |
| 22:05.37 | brad0 | so until NVIDIA gets their heads out of their collective asses I won't use their garbage. |
| 22:05.55 | Juest | brad0 or intel ones |
| 22:06.22 | brad0 | I'd consider Intel if their GPU tech was better. |
| 22:07.01 | JeffM | at least AMD is turning a profit again |
| 22:12.02 | Juest | aH |
| 22:17.12 | *** join/#bzflag brlcad (~sean@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ) |
| 22:30.07 | *** join/#bzflag Anxuiz (~Anxuiz@unaffiliated/anxuiz) |
| 22:30.27 | *** join/#bzflag Anxuiz (~Anxuiz@unaffiliated/anxuiz) |
| 22:44.31 | *** join/#bzflag randomparticle (~randompar@about/essy/snick/randomparticle) |
| 22:48.48 | *** join/#bzflag randomparticle (~randompar@about/essy/snick/randomparticle) |
| 23:03.20 | blast007 | people who complain about Intel graphics haven't tried S3/Via graphics... :P |
| 23:03.55 | blast007 | remembers his S3 Savage IX that ran slower than software rendering and did a poorer job at the actual rendering |
| 23:03.56 | brad0 | well true... but Intel GPUs are all over the place. |
| 23:04.34 | blast007 | it would swap textures around, so I had white ground, grass in place of one mountain, a mountain as a cloud, and tanks with multiple team colors |
| 23:04.39 | brad0 | all too many systems that would be fine other than being coupled with a lame GPU. |
| 23:04.56 | blast007 | my Intel 810 was just.. slow |
| 23:05.01 | blast007 | but at least it looks okay ;) |
| 23:06.13 | brad0 | Sandy Bridge is *finally* starting to look pretty decent for an Intel GPU.. |
| 23:06.51 | brad0 | but that's for an integrated GPU for low end systems. |
| 23:15.57 | randomparticle | you still up brad? |
| 23:22.29 | brad0 | what's up? |
| 23:27.56 | randomparticle | it's the thing that makes you sleepy at work on monday morning |
| 23:29.22 | randomparticle | i notice there's a match being played on your 2.0.x server. it is now 1 aug, day of death (supposedly) for 2.0.x at gu |
| 23:29.35 | brad0 | huh? |
| 23:30.17 | randomparticle | "By 1st August GU League will be 2.4 and no 2.0.x servers will be available." - quantum dot |
| 23:30.23 | randomparticle | it's the 1st of august now |
| 23:30.28 | JeffM | just |
| 23:30.52 | brad0 | I'm not running any servers. |
| 23:30.58 | blast007 | different brad |
| 23:31.03 | randomparticle | you're a different brad? |
| 23:31.03 | brad0 | yes. |
| 23:32.28 | randomparticle | gets confusing because people keep using slight alterations of their nicks |
| 23:32.50 | randomparticle | sorry to have mistaken you for him. not sure who should feel most insulted ;--) |
| 23:32.55 | brad0 | heh. it's ok. |
| 23:32.56 | *** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (~I_Died_On@unaffiliated/idiedonce/x-1828535) |
| 23:40.07 | JeffM | ducati says they will START having matches on the first and turing off servers at the end of the month |
| 23:40.31 | randomparticle | people need pushing or they won't do it i think |
| 23:40.58 | randomparticle | there are already 2.4 servers up and i'd happily match there, but few others can be bothered upgrading |
| 23:41.17 | JeffM | I think you'll see it happen over the course of the month |
| 23:41.52 | randomparticle | hope so. for gu the conversion should have happened by today. it seems the announcement was made before all the server owners were contacted though |
| 23:42.12 | randomparticle | and some have disappeared off the radar |
| 23:42.40 | JeffM | sounds like they maybe should not be offical servers then |
| 23:42.53 | randomparticle | yeah |
| 23:45.37 | randomparticle | ok.. regarding the freeze: looks like i can use a "kill -SEGV pid" from the command line to force a crash dump |
| 23:46.04 | randomparticle | so i just need to find a way to trigger that when the program freezes |
| 23:54.11 | JeffM | run in a window |
| 23:55.07 | randomparticle | might not freeze then |
| 23:55.33 | randomparticle | i've written most of the code now. just need to fork and exec |
| 23:59.54 | blast007 | no iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch or other smart phone that has an SSH client? |