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| 16:06.00 | Leibniz | hello |
| 16:06.34 | mdskpr | hi |
| 16:09.11 | allejo | hello |
| 16:09.53 | WarPig | hola |
| 16:14.10 | swigg | mdskpr_ |
| 16:15.07 | swigg | Anyone here work for the medical industry? |
| 16:41.28 | Leibniz | do you know any bzflag text client. Like bzadmin but with less CPU usage. |
| 16:44.07 | Leibniz | each instance of bzadmin eats the 15% of my CPU |
| 16:52.55 | blast007 | Leibniz: why are you using bzadmin? |
| 16:54.04 | *** join/#bzflag mebigfatguy (~dave@38.102.19.7) |
| 16:54.32 | Leibniz | I have created a chatbot. It is actually running pretty well in my server |
| 16:54.40 | Leibniz | but the problem is the CPU usage |
| 16:55.03 | blast007 | what kind of chatbot? |
| 16:55.23 | Leibniz | I do not understand your question |
| 16:55.50 | blast007 | What does the chatbot do? What language is it written in? |
| 16:56.03 | Leibniz | can you join my server now? |
| 16:56.06 | blast007 | no |
| 16:56.20 | Leibniz | oh |
| 16:56.46 | Leibniz | I get player messages from bzadmin stdout, and write messages with stdin |
| 16:57.51 | Leibniz | is it known that bzadmin eats a lot of CPU? |
| 16:57.58 | Leibniz | or is just me |
| 16:58.14 | blast007 | bzadmin is not designed to run all the time. It's just for quick administrative tasks. |
| 16:58.36 | blast007 | I'd recommend you write the chatbot as a bzfs plugin. |
| 16:59.01 | Leibniz | the problem with that is that it can only run in my own server |
| 16:59.13 | blast007 | and that's the way it should be |
| 16:59.29 | blast007 | you should not run a chatbot on someone elses' server |
| 16:59.35 | Leibniz | I know |
| 16:59.43 | blast007 | so then why is that a problem? |
| 17:00.08 | blast007 | write it as a plugin, and release that plugin to the public (or to the people that want to run it) |
| 17:00.37 | Leibniz | ok |
| 17:00.52 | blast007 | then you're not relying on a tool (bzadmin) that might go away someday |
| 17:01.06 | Leibniz | I will implement a bzadmin |
| 17:01.16 | blast007 | what? |
| 17:01.17 | Leibniz | starting with pybzflag code... |
| 17:01.35 | blast007 | ... why? |
| 17:01.38 | Leibniz | why not? |
| 17:01.52 | blast007 | there's a plugin API exposed in the game server |
| 17:02.16 | Leibniz | yes but I want a bzadmin with good performance |
| 17:02.26 | blast007 | no you don't. you want a chatbot. |
| 17:02.41 | Leibniz | yes, I want a chatbot to join other servers. |
| 17:02.48 | blast007 | what other servers? |
| 17:03.26 | Leibniz | some servers that I do not own |
| 17:03.43 | blast007 | Are you going to obtain permission from the server owners? |
| 17:03.45 | Leibniz | but it is not for spamming purposes. |
| 17:05.14 | Leibniz | or may I help improving bzadmin performance? |
| 17:05.27 | blast007 | Are you going to obtain permission from the server owners before running a chatbot on their server? |
| 17:05.33 | Leibniz | of course |
| 17:06.15 | blast007 | why are you dead set on using bzadmin for this? |
| 17:06.36 | Leibniz | because the code its done |
| 17:07.01 | Leibniz | I have not seen other way without writing too much code |
| 17:08.22 | blast007 | you're free to try to make bzadmin better |
| 17:08.56 | Leibniz | ok, who is actually the main bzadmin developer? |
| 17:08.59 | blast007 | it has lots of problems, though |
| 17:09.03 | blast007 | nobody |
| 17:09.14 | blast007 | it hasn't really been touched in years |
| 17:09.18 | Leibniz | what kind of problems? |
| 17:09.52 | blast007 | oh, like how it goes into an infinite loop in certain cases (like certain kinds of network disconnects or server crashes), sucking up 100% CPU |
| 17:11.56 | Leibniz | does bzfs send player position, etc to bzadmin like when you connect as an observer with a bzflag client? |
| 17:12.57 | blast007 | yes |
| 17:13.56 | Leibniz | what was the purpose of pybzflag? |
| 17:14.43 | blast007 | it was an attempt to reimplement the 1.7 version of BZFlag in Python |
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| 17:14.55 | Leibniz | client and server? |
| 17:15.30 | blast007 | I think, but I dunno.. I never really got it working. I had to hack around bugs in PyGame to even get it to start up some of the test apps |
| 17:17.06 | blast007 | and I think I had to use a specific version of python for it to run |
| 17:17.32 | Leibniz | yes, python is not very compatible between some versions |
| 17:17.37 | JeffM | I belive many of the libs used in pybzflag have been depreced or changed. |
| 17:18.14 | JeffM | deprecated even |
| 17:18.38 | blast007 | JeffM: Leibniz is trying to set up a chatbot for bzflag. He's currently using bzadmin to transmit chat to/from the server and the chatbot |
| 17:18.53 | JeffM | a server side player should be able to do that |
| 17:19.00 | blast007 | told him to write it as a plugin instead, but he said he needs it to be able to connect to other servers ;) |
| 17:19.02 | JeffM | I had a bot to IRC bridge writen once |
| 17:19.18 | JeffM | why does he want his bot to be banned? |
| 17:19.39 | blast007 | he said that "of course" he'd get permission from the server owners |
| 17:19.46 | Leibniz | it is actually runnin on my own server |
| 17:19.54 | JeffM | then they would install a plugin |
| 17:20.01 | JeffM | really doing it on the server is a much better and stable way |
| 17:20.08 | JeffM | and less prone to abuse |
| 17:20.13 | Leibniz | but if I use it in other server I will ask permission to the owner |
| 17:20.26 | JeffM | then ask them to install the plugin to add the server to your network |
| 17:20.29 | JeffM | it's very simple |
| 17:20.29 | blast007 | Leibniz: what programming language is the chatbot written in? |
| 17:21.19 | JeffM | an external connection is just going to waste a network slot, use resources, and be a DDOS client |
| 17:21.51 | Leibniz | JeffM: yes that is true |
| 17:22.05 | blast007 | is still waiting to hear about the programming language |
| 17:22.14 | JeffM | so if you understand that why not make your project in a way that solves those problems? |
| 17:22.24 | JeffM | unless those are desired features for you |
| 17:24.12 | Leibniz | well thanks for the information. |
| 17:24.26 | JeffM | your lack of responce tells me all I need, thanks |
| 17:24.42 | blast007 | I guess the chatbot is written with fairy dust? |
| 17:24.52 | Leibniz | JeffM: I do not understand |
| 17:25.05 | JeffM | you have not answered any of our questions |
| 17:25.15 | blast007 | Leibniz: I've asked twice about the programming language of the chatbot. |
| 17:25.18 | JeffM | that tells me that you intend to use it as a DDOS client |
| 17:25.31 | Leibniz | JeffM: ? |
| 17:25.58 | Leibniz | I am trying a way to send a private message in my irc client |
| 17:26.00 | Leibniz | :) |
| 17:26.10 | JeffM | /msg |
| 17:26.14 | JeffM | it's very simple |
| 17:26.28 | Leibniz | n/msg |
| 17:26.31 | blast007 | ~n |
| 17:26.31 | ibot | [n] the disease bzflag players get when they play too much. There is no cure. |
| 17:27.09 | blast007 | /msg UsernameHere This is the message |
| 17:29.09 | JeffM | why do you need private messages? |
| 17:29.28 | JeffM | you are talking about something that you want to apply to the community so you should have it be public |
| 17:30.08 | Leibniz | I know JeffM. But I will use private message. |
| 17:30.15 | JeffM | and no mater what you are going to want 2 layers, the bzfs layer and the IRC layer |
| 17:30.26 | JeffM | why Leibniz ? |
| 17:31.00 | Leibniz | JeffM why about the layer of about private message? |
| 17:31.26 | JeffM | no for your chatbot to bzflag interface is the layer question, the why is about private messages |
| 17:31.32 | JeffM | why so secretive? |
| 17:31.46 | JeffM | so what if your chatbot is writen in python |
| 17:32.33 | Leibniz | ok thanks for all |
| 17:32.44 | Leibniz | I will try to help with bzadmin problem |
| 17:33.22 | Leibniz | and good work with bzflag |
| 17:33.25 | Leibniz | bye |
| 17:33.53 | JeffM | we are more then willing to discuss a bzfs ot IRC inteface |
| 17:33.56 | JeffM | don't be scared |
| 17:34.03 | JeffM | just so long as the intent is honest |
| 17:35.16 | WarPig | <-- munching popcorn |
| 17:35.31 | allejo | steals some of WarPig's popcorn |
| 17:36.03 | JeffM | An opt in global chat system is not a bad idea and should be dooable with out a proto break |
| 17:36.27 | JeffM | I have never been convinced that IRC is the way to do it, but I can see that it may have some advantages |
| 17:36.51 | JeffM | it'd be most viable if it ran on it's own IRC network so it didn't anoy any others but it does have spam and DDOS implications |
| 17:37.32 | JeffM | an IRC network that used bzID logins for identification and voice would possibly minimize the abuse aspect |
| 17:38.57 | swigg | I'd like to see global chat in BZ via IRC |
| 17:40.27 | JeffM | set up an IRC network, seriously it'd be super easy to do the bz side integration with a plugin |
| 17:40.33 | JeffM | I did it once in like 3 hours |
| 17:41.35 | swigg | well.. I mean in the GUI |
| 17:41.46 | swigg | like you guys had in 3.0? |
| 17:43.09 | blast007 | the 3.0 global chat felt like it was duct tapped on |
| 17:44.22 | blast007 | JeffM: in addition to spam/abuse, some hosting providers prohibit running IRC servers (due to the spam/abuse) |
| 17:44.43 | JeffM | yes that is an issue |
| 17:45.12 | JeffM | yeah the current chat system isn't realy setup for cross server |
| 17:45.26 | JeffM | we only have the concept of chatting to players in the current game |
| 17:45.37 | JeffM | so you ether have to use a differennt "send" command |
| 17:45.39 | blast007 | I'd like it to be a proper system, not something hacked in |
| 17:45.42 | JeffM | k |
| 17:45.46 | JeffM | then everyone needs a GUID :) |
| 17:46.06 | blast007 | "proper" as in with a GUI for the stuff, not some slash command. |
| 17:46.13 | JeffM | and the user list gets seperated from the player list |
| 17:46.14 | JeffM | yeah |
| 17:46.22 | JeffM | you'd want groupings and such |
| 17:46.32 | JeffM | and the ability to add/remove people from chatgroups |
| 17:46.50 | blast007 | channels, invites, friends lists, a lobby, moderators, etc |
| 17:47.06 | JeffM | write a spec |
| 17:53.23 | *** part/#bzflag Leibniz (~user@188.86.165.139) |
| 17:54.15 | JeffM | why would you put an IRC client in your text editor!? |
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| 17:56.33 | blast007 | and there lies the source of the problem ;D |
| 17:56.44 | blast007 | they're an emacs user |
| 17:57.33 | JeffM | all things must be in one application! |
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| 21:54.29 | blast007 | JeffM: is it a problem that they're using shot IDs up to 30,000,000? |
| 21:55.26 | blast007 | (additionally, a shot ID of 0 has a special meaning - the API will pick it's own shot ID in that case) |
| 21:56.07 | blast007 | shotid is packed as a unsigned short |
| 21:59.10 | blast007 | hmm, and sourceforge has managed to make the email notifications for the bug trackers less useful.. My gmail isn't grouping them together, so I have a conversation for each user discussing the bug instead of a conversation per bug. :/ |
| 21:59.49 | JeffM | hmmm |
| 21:59.51 | JeffM | possible |
| 22:00.04 | JeffM | we don't realy have a way to know if the shot fully expired |
| 22:00.18 | JeffM | I should put in time limits into shot manger then we can know |
| 22:01.15 | blast007 | I'm curious if the leak occurs if the shot ID is passed as 0 every time instead of incrementing. Gonna set up a test here. |
| 22:02.22 | JeffM | k |
| 22:05.10 | JeffM | I'm just trying to think what we store for each shot |
| 22:07.05 | blast007 | I'll run both instances through valgrind as well. |
| 22:10.15 | JeffM | what's odd is that we didn't start storing anythign untill recently with shot manager |
| 22:12.39 | JeffM | ahh I don't think it's removing shots for server players since they never part |
| 22:13.01 | blast007 | so there's 30 million shots it's storing for that plugin? |
| 22:13.06 | JeffM | and nobody generates a shot end for them |
| 22:13.08 | JeffM | yeah |
| 22:13.16 | JeffM | i can fix that |
| 22:13.42 | JeffM | hmm or not |
| 22:13.51 | JeffM | we check the end times in update |
| 22:13.56 | JeffM | RecentlyDeadShots.push_back(shot); |
| 22:14.25 | JeffM | I'd be curious to see if a breakpoint at ShotManager.cxx::159 was ever hit |
| 22:15.20 | JeffM | we copy the shots from the live list to the "recently dead" list |
| 22:15.35 | blast007 | should that be hit after a shot should have passed its lifetime? |
| 22:15.37 | JeffM | then they get to sit for some time before it flushes them |
| 22:15.47 | alezakos | I don't have any experience with pointers, but aren't shots supposed to be `delete`d? |
| 22:15.48 | JeffM | yeah, wuenh update returns true |
| 22:16.01 | JeffM | they are stored by value |
| 22:16.16 | blast007 | int WorldWeapons::getNewWorldShotID(void) only generates shot IDs between 0 and _MAX_WORLD_SHOTS |
| 22:16.17 | JeffM | oh no they arn't |
| 22:16.20 | JeffM | DOY |
| 22:16.23 | blast007 | but if you pass your own shot ID, it doesn't call that |
| 22:16.35 | JeffM | see this is why I wanted to use std::shared_ptr :) |
| 22:17.21 | JeffM | you are totaly correct alezakos good catch |
| 22:18.08 | JeffM | blast007, add a call to delete(*itr); before itr = RecentlyDeadShots.erase(itr); in the second part of void Manager::Update() |
| 22:18.49 | JeffM | we are checking for lifetime so it should delete them when they timeout with no endshot |
| 22:20.29 | alezakos | And what about void Manager::RemoveShot and void Manager::RemovePlayer? |
| 22:20.41 | JeffM | they don't need to delete, they push to the dead list |
| 22:20.53 | JeffM | we keep the shots in the dead list for some time so that plugins can know that they were ended |
| 22:21.09 | JeffM | then we delete them in update after the cache timeout has happened |
| 22:21.33 | alezakos | Ah, okay |
| 22:21.46 | JeffM | The RecentlyDeadShots list is the last place all shots must go before they are buried |
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| 22:22.10 | JeffM | the idea is that bot threads may still need to access the shot for a little bit |
| 22:22.36 | JeffM | or they may be out of sync with the main thread so this gives them time to respond to any events surrounding the shot removal |
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| 22:32.28 | JeffM | I'm very tempted to just make it a smart pointer so we can see how bad compiler support is |
| 22:32.43 | allejo | is there a debug level or parameter to show the complete url that is passed through a bz_addUrlJob()? |
| 22:33.51 | blast007 | JeffM: okay, I have two servers running with 6 bots each, one without your fix and one with, both with the original plugin code that uses 30,000,000 |
| 22:34.01 | JeffM | k |
| 22:34.01 | blast007 | both running in valgrind with --leak-check=full --track-origins=yes |
| 22:48.08 | JeffM | allejo, no but that's not a bad thing to add |
| 22:50.23 | Notify | 03BZFlag:jeffm2501 * 22713 (trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/ShotManager.cxx trunk/bzflag/src/bzfs/ShotManager.h): we were not deleting the shot objects after they expired out of the graveyard cache.so this has 2 possible fixed, one commented out.1-implemented) store std::shared_ptrs for the shots so they will magically go away when they are no longer needed.2-commented) delete the pointers in update when we clear them from |
| 22:50.25 | Notify | the graveyard. |
| 22:51.02 | JeffM | ok, for BulletCatcher becaue he'll care. If we find platforms that can't do the std::shared_ptr the code to do it with normal pointers is in there just commented out so we can convert quickly. |
| 22:52.03 | JeffM | that's at least the obvious leak in that code |
| 22:52.14 | JeffM | valgrind should find us anything else |
| 22:52.24 | JeffM | again good eye, alezakos |
| 22:52.32 | alezakos | Thanks :) |
| 22:53.19 | JeffM | we may need to enable C++0x/11 support in the makefile for that code to compile |
| 22:55.33 | JeffM | and that officialy breaks support for, VC7,8,9, and DevC++ |
| 22:56.51 | allejo | alezakos, in your relocate script I just noticed your new svn repo. shouldn't it be 'svn://svn.code.sf.net/p/bzflag/code/trunk/bzflag' instead of 'svn://svn.code.sf.net/p/bzflag/code/'? |
| 22:59.04 | JeffM | you scared him of |
| 22:59.11 | allejo | :( |
| 22:59.17 | JeffM | oh and my change does break PPC OSX I think |
| 22:59.17 | allejo | off* |
| 22:59.24 | JeffM | not that anyone hosts on PPC OSX |
| 22:59.49 | JeffM | we can keep the C++11 stuff to the server for now to see how it works out |
| 23:01.19 | blast007 | allejo: no, that's right. Notice the line after that? |
| 23:02.41 | allejo | well the only reason I mention that is because i got this error: svn: E155024: Invalid relocation destination: 'svn://svn.code.sf.net/p/bzflag/code' (does not point to target)' |
| 23:03.38 | blast007 | what does 'svn info | grep URL' and 'svn info | grep "Repository Root" ' output for you? |
| 23:03.55 | allejo | oh i just relocated manually right now |
| 23:04.40 | blast007 | it should have been https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag/trunk/bzflag for the first and https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag for the second |
| 23:05.00 | blast007 | which would have made it append /trunk/bzflag to NEWPATH |
| 23:05.34 | allejo | hmm i have no idea how checked it out originally then o.O |
| 23:10.39 | blast007 | yeah, worked for me |
| 23:10.46 | blast007 | Relocating from https://bzflag.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/bzflag to svn://svn.code.sf.net/p/bzflag/code/trunk/bzflag... done. |
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| 23:29.09 | allejo | is there any reason why bz_addUrlJob won't work with parameters? if I set the url with the parameter it works |
| 23:29.35 | JeffM | GET or POST paramaters? |
| 23:34.21 | allejo | get |
| 23:35.18 | JeffM | those go as part of the URL, they should work fine |
| 23:35.39 | JeffM | or are you asking for a version fo the function that takes a list of pairs and builds the URL for you? |
| 23:36.07 | allejo | errr wait. does bz_addUrlJob pass POST parameters? |
| 23:36.13 | JeffM | it can |
| 23:36.29 | JeffM | you can pass in a char* with the post data |
| 23:36.42 | JeffM | that can be params, or an upload, or whatever you are posting |
| 23:36.42 | allejo | *facepalm* |
| 23:36.56 | JeffM | BZF_API bool bz_addURLJob(const char* URL, bz_URLHandler_V2* handler, void* token, const char* postData) |
| 23:37.03 | allejo | i was convinced they were GET parameters |
| 23:37.18 | JeffM | no, that's why it is called postData ;) |
| 23:37.23 | blast007 | lol |
| 23:37.27 | allejo | sigh |
| 23:37.28 | JeffM | not all post data is in name/value pairs |
| 23:37.34 | JeffM | that's just a common use of it |
| 23:38.34 | JeffM | get prams go into the URL so there is no reason to bother processing it for the plugin |
| 23:38.53 | JeffM | we'd need to pass in some kinda array of pairs |
| 23:41.53 | allejo | well this is embarrassing :-/ |
| 23:44.19 | swigg | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:44.43 | JeffM | You arn't the one that forgot to delete 30 million objects ;) |
| 23:46.59 | swigg | I did that today!! I killed 5 fire ant monuds!! |
| 23:47.03 | swigg | *mounds |
| 23:56.12 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (~gnurdux@pppoe-68-142-55-30.gmavt.net) |
| 23:59.22 | *** join/#bzflag DarkCalf (~DarkCalf@173.231.40.98) |