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| 03:40.18 | alpha1-2 | Yeah, LibreOffice worked with Wine! I had to install Mono BTW |
| 03:45.12 | alpha1-2 | well, not the whole mono for linux, just this: |
| 03:45.25 | alpha1-2 | wine-mono - The Wine specific Gecko HTML rendering engine |
| 03:45.27 | alpha1-2 | but I had already installed these: mono-core, wnck-sharp and glib-sharp2 |
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| 04:59.45 | alpha1-2 | In Windows, after you install any application, do you need always the shortcut for can run it or you can call it from any folder? |
| 05:00.51 | alpha1-2 | I mean, without the path. |
| 05:05.46 | JeffM_ | from the command line? |
| 05:05.56 | alpha1-2 | yes |
| 05:06.05 | JeffM | the shortcut has nothing to do with the command line |
| 05:06.26 | alpha1-2 | I know |
| 05:06.29 | JeffM | if it's not in the PATH enviroment var then you need to specify the full path |
| 05:06.32 | JeffM | or CD to the dir |
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| 05:07.20 | alpha1-2 | ok. But, after you install something, is it by deault in your PATH var? |
| 05:07.22 | JeffM | most programs are not in the path |
| 05:07.25 | JeffM | no |
| 05:07.38 | JeffM | most programs don't run by command line |
| 05:07.47 | alpha1-2 | ok |
| 05:07.51 | alpha1-2 | thanks |
| 05:07.55 | JeffM | putting an app in the path is a huge security flaw |
| 05:08.09 | alpha1-2 | I guess |
| 05:08.45 | JeffM | UAC has a harder time checking apps that are spawned by exec |
| 05:08.48 | JeffM | more holes |
| 05:09.09 | alpha1-2 | UAC? |
| 05:09.10 | JeffM | also the program files dirs are locked down these days |
| 05:09.15 | JeffM | User Access Control |
| 05:09.36 | JeffM | you generaly can't write to the program files dirs with out admin rights |
| 05:10.28 | alpha1-2 | oh yes |
| 05:10.36 | alpha1-2 | only admin can install apps |
| 05:11.09 | JeffM | and apps can't write to the dir they are installed to |
| 05:11.24 | JeffM | they have to use other folders, the ProgramData or user data folders |
| 05:11.37 | JeffM | so there isn't a lot of comand line access for installed apps |
| 05:12.03 | alpha1-2 | oh ok, I am remembering it :) |
| 05:12.22 | alpha1-2 | thanks |
| 05:27.07 | alpha1-2 | JeffM: could you, please, have a quick look at this directory tree? This is the tree installed by "sed for Windows" (it has an installer). The License is GPL. But I would want to use just the "bin" folder that only is 800 KB compressed. Any problem with the other content if they aren't in the target system? |
| 05:27.09 | alpha1-2 | JeffM: could you, please, have a quick look at this directory tree? This is the tree installed by "sed for Windows" (it has an installer). The License is GPL. But I would want to use just the "bin" folder that only is 800 KB compressed. Any problem with the other content if they aren't in the target system? |
| 05:27.10 | alpha1-2 | http://pastebin.com/61GqhwyE |
| 05:28.02 | JeffM | those are unix style paths |
| 05:28.20 | JeffM | none of that will exist on windows no mater what you install |
| 05:29.00 | JeffM | it dosn't say where ./ is and it can't be the root |
| 05:29.08 | alpha1-2 | I did a linux command "ls -R > ls-R.txt" but the installation was made by the installer for windows. |
| 05:29.46 | JeffM | yeah wine maps stuff different then real windows |
| 05:30.31 | alpha1-2 | Sorry I forgot this: |
| 05:30.33 | alpha1-2 | C:\Program Files (x86)\GnuWin32\ |
| 05:30.53 | JeffM | then sure it can put all that in that folder |
| 05:31.24 | alpha1-2 | I can do a dir -R comand too I think from cmd.exe (Wine) environment if you need it |
| 05:31.51 | alpha1-2 | Windows format |
| 05:32.05 | JeffM | what exactly are you aksing me to do? |
| 05:32.35 | alpha1-2 | I would want to use just the "bin" folder that only is 800 KB compressed. Any problem with the other content if they aren't in the target system? |
| 05:32.45 | JeffM | I have no idea what sed needs |
| 05:33.01 | JeffM | so looking at a dir listing don't magicaly tell me how the application works |
| 05:33.31 | alpha1-2 | I saw the other content and it seems not to be necessary. But according to License using? |
| 05:33.46 | alpha1-2 | use* |
| 05:34.07 | JeffM | for the license all you have to do is provide source code if somebody asks |
| 05:34.12 | JeffM | and include a copy of the license |
| 05:34.46 | alpha1-2 | I am putting in the introductory text what is its web page. I think that that would be enough, no? |
| 05:35.11 | JeffM | depends on who asks, but probably |
| 05:35.31 | alpha1-2 | ok |
| 05:36.22 | alpha1-2 | thanks |
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| 12:24.27 | brad | server at top of list has 2 players x_x |
| 12:24.45 | blast007 | riker cup killed BZFlag! |
| 12:24.54 | alpha1-2 | monday early :P |
| 12:25.04 | blast007 | conspiracy theory! |
| 12:25.09 | alpha1-2 | and all rikers are exhausted |
| 12:25.27 | alpha1-2 | in special the europeans ;) |
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| 12:34.13 | alpha1-2 | [09:27] <alpha1-2> I always see how when the night appear, Apoc become big, and in the morning it dissapear |
| 12:34.14 | alpha1-2 | [09:27] <alpha1-2> and Leagues is the opposite :) |
| 12:34.16 | alpha1-2 | [09:27] <alpha1-2> in* |
| 12:34.17 | alpha1-2 | [09:28] <alpha1-2> they have clearely 2 groups of players |
| 12:34.19 | alpha1-2 | [09:29] <alpha1-2> the third group is the other servers players |
| 12:34.20 | alpha1-2 | [09:30] <alpha1-2> and it is permanent, but in the night decrease |
| 12:34.22 | alpha1-2 | [09:32] <alpha1-2> early in the morning Apoc is the King, but GU is still alive too |
| 12:34.23 | alpha1-2 | [09:33] <alpha1-2> I think majority apoc players are from NA or US |
| 12:34.25 | alpha1-2 | [09:33] <alpha1-2> by the clock |
| 12:34.26 | alpha1-2 | wrong chat |
| 12:36.59 | brad | ~lart riker |
| 12:36.59 | infobot | gives riker an extra strength ACME sleeping pill, sending riker to sleep for 150 years, and awakening to seven strange dwarfs and a large apple |
| 12:37.43 | alpha1-2 | ~loser european |
| 12:37.50 | alpha1-2 | oh it didnt work :P |
| 12:42.46 | alpha1-2 | ibot, what is european team? |
| 12:42.58 | alpha1-2 | infobot, what is european team? |
| 12:42.58 | infobot | european team is, like, a good team, with much strength but in this opportunity they lost because they are european :D |
| 12:43.22 | alpha1-2 | ok thx ;P |
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| 13:20.50 | alpha1-2 | infobot, run logconverter |
| 13:20.50 | infobot | ACTION runs logconverter in Windows and gets an illegal page fault, then runs logconverter in Linux and all the problems magically disappear. |
| 13:21.01 | alpha1-2 | :) |
| 13:21.20 | alpha1-2 | I knew it! |
| 13:21.43 | alpha1-2 | I have to work more still >:( |
| 13:24.37 | blast007 | illegal page fault? the cops will be there shortly |
| 13:31.02 | alpha1-2 | oh oh.... RUN |
| 13:31.39 | alpha1-2 | (I never had to install Windows 7 as Jeff told me :P) |
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| 19:39.51 | randomparticle | fvec2 is defined where please |
| 19:40.23 | JeffM | in the vector header |
| 19:40.33 | JeffM | you can't use go to definition in your editor? |
| 19:40.50 | randomparticle | no |
| 19:40.59 | JeffM | what editor are you using? |
| 19:41.04 | randomparticle | ok. find has got it, i think. bzflag/include/vectors.h? |
| 19:41.27 | blast007 | you text editor can't search the contents of a file? |
| 19:41.30 | blast007 | your* |
| 19:41.32 | JeffM | yeah that's where the templates are |
| 19:41.37 | randomparticle | i'm just using vi at the moment |
| 19:41.48 | randomparticle | hard to kick the vi habit |
| 19:41.52 | JeffM | VC FTW! |
| 19:42.36 | randomparticle | have been experimenting with sublime text, but vi is so fast if you can touch type, which i can |
| 19:42.49 | JeffM | exept it can't do a find |
| 19:42.54 | JeffM | that's a huge failing |
| 19:43.09 | randomparticle | true. but i don't have VC here anyway |
| 19:43.17 | JeffM | its' free :) |
| 19:43.23 | randomparticle | runs on unix now? |
| 19:43.23 | blast007 | vi can search within a file |
| 19:43.35 | JeffM | sure in wine :) |
| 19:43.41 | randomparticle | hmm…. |
| 19:43.52 | JeffM | kdev and monodev would do what you need and be more native |
| 19:44.05 | JeffM | there are a BUNCH of ides |
| 19:44.19 | JeffM | also vi can do what you need, you just need to cast the right spell |
| 19:44.37 | randomparticle | maybe xcode would find the definitions |
| 19:44.48 | randomparticle | but i have my doubts as it's not a proper xcode project |
| 19:45.10 | randomparticle | is kind of a fake xcode project |
| 19:45.34 | JeffM | like old bzflag? |
| 19:45.53 | randomparticle | i dunno. you use an editor for 25 years and it becomes intuitive |
| 19:46.00 | blast007 | wasn't the one in SVN trunk a proper Xcode project? |
| 19:46.08 | JeffM | it was |
| 19:46.40 | randomparticle | it has an xocde project file in there |
| 19:46.57 | randomparticle | but it compiles the thing by running a script |
| 19:47.10 | JeffM | that's how the old bzflag project used to work |
| 19:47.28 | JeffM | still as long as xcode knows where the files are it should be fine to search for things |
| 19:47.29 | randomparticle | it's been updated?? |
| 19:47.33 | JeffM | ohh yeah |
| 19:47.39 | JeffM | months ago |
| 19:48.01 | randomparticle | i did download the bzflag source two nights ago |
| 19:48.01 | JeffM | the xcode in 10.8 dosn't have gcc, so the old script would not work |
| 19:48.04 | randomparticle | but i binned it |
| 19:48.11 | JeffM | from what? svn or from the tarbal? |
| 19:48.46 | randomparticle | svn. autogen.sh failed |
| 19:48.59 | JeffM | you don't run that anymore on the mac |
| 19:49.03 | JeffM | just build with xcode |
| 19:49.06 | randomparticle | i lost patience and went back to the old source |
| 19:49.14 | JeffM | and that is why you fail |
| 19:49.22 | blast007 | get the latest SVN again and just do it with xcode |
| 19:49.29 | JeffM | yeah run the project and build |
| 19:49.31 | randomparticle | ok, will do, thanks |
| 19:49.31 | JeffM | it's all native |
| 19:49.49 | randomparticle | i'm kind of surprised it has been done, but it's nice that is has |
| 19:49.58 | JeffM | it had to be done |
| 19:50.03 | JeffM | to get a 10.8 build |
| 19:50.07 | randomparticle | signing? |
| 19:50.24 | JeffM | no, seems you can't read. 10.8 dosn't include GCC, the makefile dosn't work on a mac |
| 19:50.32 | JeffM | apple swaped to LLVM |
| 19:50.38 | JeffM | so the toolchain dosn't exist |
| 19:50.59 | JeffM | with out jacking up your system you HAVE to use xcode |
| 19:51.07 | randomparticle | not sure i like the sound of no gcc |
| 19:51.23 | JeffM | apple dosn't really give you a choice in these things |
| 19:51.29 | blast007 | well, you're free to switch to a different OS, like Linux or Windows ;) |
| 19:51.33 | JeffM | walled garden and all |
| 19:51.39 | randomparticle | yeah. i don't know if you can still download gcc and compile it yourself |
| 19:51.48 | JeffM | you can, it's just quite hard to setup |
| 19:51.54 | randomparticle | backend issues |
| 19:52.02 | JeffM | and you run the risk of screwing up your OS if you don't know exactly what you are doing |
| 19:52.18 | randomparticle | i did try vanilla gnu gcc source and well.. |
| 19:52.22 | JeffM | we didnt' want to have our users go thu that setup |
| 19:52.28 | randomparticle | ended up downloading the darwin version |
| 19:52.32 | JeffM | it's also all the autotools and stuff |
| 19:52.37 | JeffM | you have to do a lot to get it to work |
| 19:52.55 | randomparticle | it's not just gcc that's missing? |
| 19:52.56 | JeffM | 99.9995% of our mac users that build will be fine with xcode |
| 19:53.04 | JeffM | no it's the entire gnu toolchain |
| 19:53.13 | JeffM | LLVM and xcode do it all |
| 19:53.26 | randomparticle | hmm. not sure i will compile some of my old favourites, like ffmpeg |
| 19:53.34 | JeffM | dunno |
| 19:53.50 | randomparticle | i'm still on 10.7.5 |
| 19:53.53 | JeffM | but we chose to go with how apple has it setup as that is simplest for most users |
| 19:53.57 | JeffM | what version of xcode? |
| 19:54.03 | randomparticle | will probably go straight to 10.9 |
| 19:54.06 | randomparticle | 4.1 |
| 19:54.15 | JeffM | I think that's the last one with gcc |
| 19:54.25 | randomparticle | *sniffles* |
| 19:54.41 | JeffM | apple can't control gcc, they can control llvm :) |
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| 19:55.36 | JeffM | and for VC, if you are on a mac, install paralels, it works fine. |
| 19:55.48 | randomparticle | i have vmware fusion |
| 19:55.51 | randomparticle | with xp in it :) |
| 19:56.00 | JeffM | update that to 7 and you are golden |
| 19:56.10 | randomparticle | yeah |
| 19:56.27 | randomparticle | i did try running bzflag in it. it does have directx acceleration |
| 19:56.35 | randomparticle | but something funny is going on |
| 19:56.43 | JeffM | yeah don't run games |
| 19:56.49 | JeffM | but VC runs fine in it |
| 19:56.51 | randomparticle | keeps freezing for short moments |
| 19:57.09 | randomparticle | i think bzflag could potentially run ok in it |
| 19:57.15 | JeffM | not really |
| 19:57.18 | randomparticle | if i could discover what the glitching is due to |
| 19:57.30 | randomparticle | well, i can get about 25fps without acceleration |
| 19:57.31 | blast007 | probably crappy Apple graphics drivers |
| 19:57.41 | JeffM | you do kniw that we don't draw with directX right? |
| 19:57.55 | randomparticle | it's got opengl support too |
| 19:58.04 | JeffM | and yeah the drivers from XP to VMWare to Apple probalby ain't that great |
| 19:58.07 | JeffM | 7 should work better |
| 19:58.20 | randomparticle | i might put 7 on later |
| 19:58.29 | blast007 | or install Windows 7 natively and skip the middleman |
| 19:58.39 | JeffM | bootcamp is pretty sweet |
| 19:58.47 | randomparticle | i love my vm zoo |
| 19:59.32 | randomparticle | i can just ctrl+right arrow and it switches to a complete linux/xp/solaris/whatever desktop |
| 19:59.43 | randomparticle | it looks just like a native setup |
| 20:00.18 | JeffM | then you have to live with the inadiquacies of that method :) |
| 20:00.34 | randomparticle | not quite sure what they are :) |
| 20:00.50 | JeffM | anything that needs direct hardware access will be slower |
| 20:00.54 | blast007 | the ones you mentioned... |
| 20:01.05 | blast007 | frezing up and low FPS |
| 20:01.07 | JeffM | because you have some layer of abstrtion |
| 20:01.17 | randomparticle | most things work smoothly enough |
| 20:01.22 | JeffM | most will |
| 20:01.25 | JeffM | but not all |
| 20:01.28 | randomparticle | i've had more demanding games than bzflag working fine |
| 20:01.30 | blast007 | 25FPS is pretty crap |
| 20:01.48 | randomparticle | that's without any hardware gfx acceleration |
| 20:01.49 | blast007 | though I guess that was without acceleration |
| 20:02.02 | swigg | TV is only 30fps... |
| 20:02.20 | randomparticle | if i get 25fps without, then with it should easily be playable |
| 20:02.21 | JeffM | depends on the input |
| 20:02.27 | swigg | classic movies are what? 24? |
| 20:02.30 | JeffM | NTSC is 60 fields a second |
| 20:02.43 | randomparticle | movies normally 24p |
| 20:03.03 | alpha1-2 | Wow! I just want to say that there are around 60 players/observers just before in the most popular servers (apoc, leagues and some others). Similar to the ones inside the last Riker Cup. |
| 20:03.04 | randomparticle | ntsci 60i, uk tv 50i or 25p |
| 20:03.06 | JeffM | yeah that's at the low end of human visability |
| 20:03.30 | swigg | makes me wonder what all the fuss is over 4k |
| 20:03.41 | randomparticle | that's a different issue |
| 20:03.45 | JeffM | resolution is not the same as frame rate |
| 20:03.49 | blast007 | swigg: 4k is resolution, not frame rate |
| 20:03.53 | JeffM | 4k dosn't make sense in the home |
| 20:04.00 | swigg | Yes, but the FR is higher too I think |
| 20:04.08 | randomparticle | arguably a higher framerate would have been a more sensible priority |
| 20:04.08 | blast007 | no, lower in some instances :) |
| 20:04.10 | JeffM | it can go up to 60 |
| 20:04.30 | blast007 | some 4k solutions can only do 30fps due to bandwidth restrictions |
| 20:04.33 | JeffM | yeah |
| 20:04.39 | alpha1-2 | I have 60 too FPS in my onboard graphic Intel adaptor with free drivers :) |
| 20:04.40 | JeffM | the modern ones are variable |
| 20:04.49 | randomparticle | good motion is simply not possible using most tv broadcast framerates |
| 20:04.50 | blast007 | 4k @ 60 FPS requires two DVI inputs (so the screen is split into two halves) |
| 20:04.56 | swigg | Weren't people getting sick at screenings of 'The Hobbit'? |
| 20:05.11 | swigg | headaches, etc? |
| 20:05.14 | randomparticle | that's probably people not being used to it |
| 20:05.16 | JeffM | alpha1-2, rendering what? |
| 20:05.18 | JeffM | a box? |
| 20:05.22 | randomparticle | people are used to seeing judder |
| 20:05.29 | randomparticle | in films |
| 20:05.30 | alpha1-2 | BZFlag, aren't you talking of that? |
| 20:05.46 | blast007 | JeffM: a box at 60FPS? you're giving it too much credit. It was just a quad. |
| 20:06.15 | randomparticle | one of the advantages of 4k is that it has an extended color gamut |
| 20:06.23 | randomparticle | that's part of the spec |
| 20:06.37 | randomparticle | although not strictly a resolution thing |
| 20:06.51 | swigg | I don't even run my stuff @ 1080p 720 is good enough for mr |
| 20:06.51 | JeffM | alpha1-2, bzflag can display many things |
| 20:06.54 | swigg | *me |
| 20:07.18 | swigg | BZflag never ceases to amaze me at what it can do |
| 20:07.29 | blast007 | swigg: I'm running at higher than 1080p right now. (barely higher, but still higher) |
| 20:07.35 | randomparticle | is anyone here using lightboost? |
| 20:07.58 | alpha1-2 | I talk of the normal behaviour of BZFlag for me from 60 to 40 FPS in HIX maps for example |
| 20:08.03 | swigg | Blast007: You are lucky to gave a monitor capable of that |
| 20:08.28 | swigg | I think I have one that does 1920 or something |
| 20:08.29 | blast007 | swigg: lucky? not really. 1920x1200 isn't exactly exotic. |
| 20:08.46 | swigg | Not exotic for Lenovo. :P |
| 20:08.55 | blast007 | I'm not on a laptop |
| 20:08.58 | randomparticle | lenovo are permabanned |
| 20:09.33 | randomparticle | the chinese have installed spyware tech in lenovo gear, which is why government depts won't use it |
| 20:09.42 | randomparticle | or so they say :) |
| 20:09.43 | blast007 | k |
| 20:10.26 | randomparticle | http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mi6-and-mi5-refuse-to-use-lenovo-computers-over-claims-chinese-company-makes-them-vulnerable-to-hacking-8737072.html |
| 20:10.27 | swigg | Show me a computer that *isn't* made of componants made in China |
| 20:12.08 | alpha1-2 | true, but maybe random refers is some soft + hard components |
| 20:12.21 | swigg | That Lenovo bugging thing may be related to Intel's vPro tech |
| 20:12.25 | alpha1-2 | nnot only electronic ones |
| 20:12.55 | swigg | You can update the OS with it not being turned on or something like that |
| 20:13.20 | randomparticle | is that a uri geller thing? |
| 20:13.33 | alpha1-2 | i heared that Richard Stallmand uses Lenovos and with Free BIOS too |
| 20:13.42 | alpha1-2 | Stallman* |
| 20:45.15 | randomparticle | ok. i've been trying bzflag in an xp vm again. this time, i connected to a local server: |
| 20:45.16 | randomparticle | https://www.dropbox.com/s/op0hqygtfwrce7i/bzfi0002.png |
| 20:45.31 | randomparticle | framerate varies between about 300-400 fps |
| 20:45.56 | randomparticle | i'm wondering if the glitching when connected to pub servers is due to network issues? |
| 20:46.59 | randomparticle | firewall thing maybe? |
| 20:47.06 | alpha1-2_away | do you see screen jumps? |
| 20:47.09 | JeffM | doubtful |
| 20:47.15 | randomparticle | locally it runs smoothly |
| 20:47.28 | alpha1-2_away | pub server? |
| 20:47.33 | alpha1-2_away | and * |
| 20:47.36 | JeffM | it's a server at a bar |
| 20:47.57 | randomparticle | keeps freezing on pub servers |
| 20:48.09 | alpha1-2_away | with 60 FPS? |
| 20:49.02 | randomparticle | i don't know the exact figure, but it's stop-go-stop-go |
| 20:49.18 | randomparticle | when it's going it's smooth enough. so i presume, the framerate is high then |
| 20:49.55 | *** join/#bzflag swigg (~swigg@68-119-228-196.dhcp.ahvl.nc.charter.com) |
| 20:49.56 | *** join/#bzflag swigg (~swigg@bzflag/player/Swigg) |
| 20:50.23 | alpha1-2_away | did you have 60 FPS when it went jumping? |
| 20:55.06 | alpha1-2_away | check your lag too when it happens, I noticed something similar in Rikers Cup some time at US server (around 360/400 lag), but usually I dont have too lag (180 - 250) and it doesnt jump |
| 20:55.59 | *** join/#bzflag Constitution (~josh@bzflag/developer/Constitution) |
| 20:56.46 | alpha1-2_away | pressing "o" key and enter |
| 21:03.57 | JeffM | the networking the client does is identicalfor local and remote servers |
| 21:04.24 | randomparticle | i went into network options and chose local |
| 21:04.30 | randomparticle | don't know if that made a diff |
| 21:04.36 | randomparticle | also turned some gfx settigs down |
| 21:04.51 | randomparticle | seems to be that some servers worse than others. some quite playable |
| 21:05.34 | randomparticle | don't really know what i'm doing in xp. it's like an alien world |
| 21:08.30 | JeffM | network options where? |
| 21:18.37 | khonkhortisan | as in, home connection so you trust all the computers local? |
| 21:20.25 | alpha1-2_away | When I was in US server at start I had around 5 FPS, that was the cause of my jumps. Before in EU server I had from 30 descending until 15 and well. But in US I had high lag at start too as I said before; after 20 minutes all became to see normal (no jumps) and until max 30 FPS. |
| 21:22.14 | alpha1-2_away | The FPS are related directly to the number of tanks playing, that is becasue I din't have 60 to 40 FPS as usually. |
| 21:23.28 | alpha1-2_away | *that is the cause* |
| 21:24.49 | JeffM | it's also related to map complexity |
| 21:41.45 | khonkhortisan | driving in a maze will make your fps vary wildly |
| 21:42.52 | JeffM | optimaly we'd have a rendering thread that ran at a fixed FPS |
| 21:43.44 | *** join/#bzflag ashvala (~ashvala@unaffiliated/ashvala) |
| 21:44.01 | JeffM | blast007, guess what I just got, a PPC mac mini! :) |
| 21:45.21 | alpha1-2_away | yes, to map complexity too |
| 21:46.22 | blast007 | JeffM: heh |
| 21:46.29 | JeffM | it comes down to 2 main things, how much work there is culling, and how many triangles drawn |
| 21:46.35 | JeffM | blast007, with a GIG of ram! |
| 21:46.54 | JeffM | they were going to throw it away at work |
| 21:47.17 | JeffM | with a bunch of old 68k PPC601 and G3 mchines |
| 21:48.22 | alpha1-2_away | I could to use those machines :) |
| 21:48.33 | blast007 | well, if you ever need any PPC mac mini spare parts besides the logic board, let me know :P |
| 21:48.39 | JeffM | heh |
| 21:49.02 | blast007 | can't recall if the one I have had a super drive or not |
| 21:49.21 | JeffM | I think this one does, it's got the wifi's and the blutooths |
| 21:49.25 | JeffM | and all the GBs |
| 21:49.49 | JeffM | we got it when they went clerance after apple swaped to intel |
| 21:49.55 | blast007 | sounds like the one I have just has a CD-RW/DVD-ROM (since I saw the word 'combo' on the drive) |
| 21:50.28 | alpha1-2_away | *could use* |
| 21:50.29 | JeffM | how are your player OS counts? |
| 21:51.56 | blast007 | By IP: Windows 943, OS X 389, Linux 452 |
| 21:51.56 | blast007 | By BZID: Windows 306, OS X 144, Linux 122 |
| 21:51.56 | blast007 | (and in both cases, 2 for FreeBSD) |
| 21:53.10 | JeffM | smoothing out a bit |
| 21:53.28 | blast007 | ah, and probably take one off the counts for all the bzid stuff as I think it's also counting one copy of unregistered users |
| 21:53.33 | JeffM | 52% winders, 25% linux, the rest OSX |
| 21:53.42 | blast007 | 'distinct bzid' would pick up a blank one :) |
| 21:54.31 | blast007 | again, not entirely perfect metrics because of dynamic IPs |
| 21:54.55 | JeffM | osx and linux swap places for reg only |
| 21:55.15 | JeffM | still interesting that you've seen 569 unique users |
| 21:55.23 | blast007 | now we can't say "that FreeBSD guy" anymore :) |
| 21:55.34 | JeffM | heh |
| 21:55.49 | *** join/#bzflag swigg (~swigg@bzflag/player/Swigg) |
| 21:55.50 | JeffM | well all the OSX guys want to say they are running BSD and 'real unix' too |
| 21:58.25 | *** join/#bzflag mebigfatguy (~dave@128.177.74.185) |
| 21:58.35 | alpha1-2_away | that 569 users are interesting |
| 21:58.59 | blast007 | not necessarily unique people, but unique accounts |
| 21:59.04 | *** join/#bzflag Rob5a (~Rob5a@cable-86-56-40-148.cust.telecolumbus.net) |
| 21:59.08 | alpha1-2_away | yes |
| 21:59.22 | JeffM | and that's what 2 weeks ish? |
| 21:59.31 | alpha1-2_away | you mean maybe some repeated people |
| 21:59.32 | *** join/#bzflag swigg (~swigg@bzflag/player/Swigg) |
| 22:00.06 | blast007 | just over a week |
| 22:00.12 | JeffM | ahh |
| 22:00.19 | alpha1-2 | what does this mean? |
| 22:00.27 | alpha1-2 | [18:53] <blast007> ah, and probably take one off the counts for all the bzid stuff as I think it's also counting one copy of unregistered users |
| 22:00.31 | JeffM | it means that about 1/3 of play sessions are registered :) |
| 22:00.33 | alpha1-2 | [18:53] <blast007> 'distinct bzid' would pick up a blank one :) |
| 22:00.43 | blast007 | alpha1-2: meaning, it was counting unregistered as well |
| 22:00.43 | JeffM | it's because of the query he did |
| 22:01.04 | blast007 | I started collecting build strings 2013-07-28 16:45:19 UTC |
| 22:01.18 | JeffM | k |
| 22:01.45 | JeffM | the ratios haven't chagned that much other then linux and osx becoming nearly identical |
| 22:02.04 | JeffM | 1/2 windows, the rest split linux/osx |
| 22:02.32 | JeffM | I recall OSX having an advantage several years ago |
| 22:02.52 | JeffM | iPad and ubuntu probalby helped even that out |
| 22:02.54 | blast007 | overall, my database has 6750 BZIDs, 117,958 callsigns and 217,363 IPs across 1,779,852 joins, dating back to around 2009-04-23 |
| 22:03.13 | alpha1-2 | the IP total is 1784, that would quadruple the BZID at start |
| 22:03.19 | JeffM | hmm less then 2 million joins |
| 22:03.28 | JeffM | that includes mofo? |
| 22:03.36 | blast007 | it didn't initially |
| 22:03.39 | JeffM | k |
| 22:04.06 | blast007 | and I haven't been running that plugin since 2009. I had parsed some logs I still had and had seeded the database with that data initially |
| 22:04.07 | JeffM | joins per day for a single server would be interesting |
| 22:04.18 | JeffM | and IPs per day |
| 22:04.33 | blast007 | want how many joins mofo gets per day? :) |
| 22:04.47 | JeffM | yeah and how many Ips |
| 22:05.45 | *** join/#bzflag Rob5a (~Rob5a@cable-86-56-40-148.cust.telecolumbus.net) |
| 22:06.27 | *** join/#bzflag Rob5a (~Rob5a@cable-86-56-40-148.cust.telecolumbus.net) |
| 22:07.23 | *** join/#bzflag Rob5a2 (~Rob5a@cable-86-56-40-148.cust.telecolumbus.net) |
| 22:10.29 | blast007 | JeffM: http://dpaste.com/1332222/plain/ |
| 22:10.48 | JeffM | cool |
| 22:11.17 | JeffM | hmm average of 3 joins per player |
| 22:11.21 | JeffM | based on IP |
| 22:11.38 | alpha1-2 | blast007: you would have just 2 GU servers online right now, right? |
| 22:11.43 | blast007 | yes |
| 22:11.52 | blast007 | plus the replay server, if you want to count that |
| 22:12.24 | alpha1-2 | I think then that the majority of those IPS comes from Apoc |
| 22:12.48 | blast007 | alpha1-2: are you talking about the pastebin? |
| 22:12.50 | alpha1-2 | *would come* |
| 22:12.53 | blast007 | paste* |
| 22:13.07 | blast007 | because the stats from that link are *all* from mofo servers |
| 22:13.17 | alpha1-2 | no, of before IP number |
| 22:13.23 | blast007 | k |
| 22:13.25 | alpha1-2 | 1700 aprox |
| 22:13.44 | blast007 | and sure, a lot of them probably are |
| 22:14.37 | blast007 | my league servers only get several hundreds of joins a day at most, and quite a few days it's single digits |
| 22:15.20 | blast007 | and my other servers got similar amounts of hits |
| 22:15.27 | alpha1-2 | the issue with IPs, at least in these places (near Argentine or maybe Latin america too) is that they are dynamics (talking of home accounts), so that number maybe can decrease much |
| 22:15.57 | blast007 | as I already mentioned :P |
| 22:17.08 | alpha1-2 | in US/NA do you have mostly dynamic or static IP at home accounts? |
| 22:17.27 | blast007 | mostly dynamic, though the level of dynamic varies |
| 22:17.40 | blast007 | my IP rarely changes |
| 22:18.01 | alpha1-2 | my IP can stay 1 week maybe without changing |
| 22:18.11 | alpha1-2 | or 2 |
| 22:18.16 | blast007 | months for mine |
| 22:18.45 | blast007 | usually doesn't even change if I turn the modem off overnight. It did change when I switched routers though. |
| 22:18.59 | blast007 | dunno if that was actually related to that change, or just a coincidence |
| 22:20.24 | alpha1-2 | when I switch off my modem/router, then in the next week, the IP changes several times |
| 22:24.54 | alpha1-2 | it is interesting then, in Apoc: around 1000 joins per day, and based in IPs vs BZIDs, there would be 2/1 unregistered/registered proportion |
| 22:28.25 | alpha1-2 | I still think that the base of player that plays leagues would be interesting too, but counting all the servers; and, as a third value, not minor necessarily, the "other servers" cathegory too |
| 22:29.03 | blast007 | sure |
| 22:29.12 | blast007 | the plugin is still a bit wonky though |
| 22:30.52 | alpha1-2 | in total we could have 3 similar quantities, or saying it in other way, the before numbers of IP x 3 maybe (or x2 if Apoc were much major than the others) |
| 22:32.27 | alpha1-2 | and based in BZID of 500, if we see the actual 2/1 joining number of Apoc, maybe we could have until around 1000 unique players playing nowadays |
| 22:33.36 | JeffM | there is a lot of churn, people come and go pretty fast |
| 22:35.40 | alpha1-2 | the accurate calculation should be made through 1 whole year, though, because of the different holydays times for all countries, etc |
| 22:36.30 | blast007 | alpha1-2: I only have a week of build strings |
| 22:36.33 | blast007 | so I can't do a year yet |
| 22:36.58 | JeffM | that would be a very large and error prone extrapolation |
| 22:37.18 | alpha1-2 | I understand, I just say how it should be made :) IMO |
| 22:38.41 | alpha1-2 | maybe 6 months too, remember that you need to take the 2 kinds of long holidays around the world (2 months in general), when the people more can play |
| 22:38.44 | blast007 | our metrics might have been screwed up by Canada Day |
| 22:38.50 | JeffM | strayer says there are only 47 people playing right now |
| 22:39.12 | blast007 | er wait, I'm a month off, that was July 1st :) |
| 22:40.05 | JeffM | most of them playing for less then 30 min |
| 22:42.14 | alpha1-2 | could it be possible to say to strayer that he makes a whole 1 single graphic/account from all servers? that graphic could be interesting to see monthly, and yearly |
| 22:42.39 | JeffM | I have asked for that data before |
| 22:42.48 | JeffM | BZStats will do it but it's collector is broken |
| 22:42.53 | JeffM | we'll get it if we finish push stats |
| 22:43.35 | alpha1-2 | oh I see |
| 22:48.07 | alpha1-2 | what lib/program do you use for graphic the measurements? |
| 22:49.28 | JeffM | I don't know what quol used |
| 22:49.33 | JeffM | some php thing |
| 22:50.36 | Constitution | anyone know if there is a practical way to lay out a single-elimination bracket using bbcode on the forums? |
| 22:51.03 | JeffM | [img] |
| 22:51.05 | JeffM | ;) |
| 22:51.08 | Constitution | :P |
| 22:51.11 | *** join/#bzflag apeman (~Victor@202.36.179.100) |
| 22:51.13 | JeffM | that will be your best bet |
| 22:51.26 | Constitution | not very easy to modify |
| 22:51.33 | JeffM | keep the source around, and rehost it |
| 22:51.47 | JeffM | can you do a table? |
| 22:51.58 | allejo | image generation? |
| 22:52.02 | apeman | any map object that stops bullets, even ricochet? |
| 22:52.25 | Constitution | it seems like [list] is the closest thing |
| 22:52.36 | JeffM | yeah that's not going to give you what you want |
| 22:52.38 | JeffM | I'd make an image |
| 22:52.59 | JeffM | it's just going to be entering in names in blank spots |
| 22:53.04 | JeffM | so edits will be easy |
| 22:53.11 | allejo | apeman, not really. unless it's a no rico map and a mesh has rico |
| 22:53.12 | JeffM | and there will be no confusion |
| 22:53.42 | JeffM | if you had a table I could think of a way |
| 22:54.27 | *** join/#bzflag Delusional (~delusiona@unaffiliated/delusional) |
| 22:54.27 | JeffM | I guess you could use the [code] tag and change to a monospaced font and use a BUTTLOAD of spaces |
| 22:54.28 | Constitution | might even work with [list], since that seems to do indentations? although it won't be the prettiest |
| 22:54.32 | JeffM | but that'd be harder to edit |
| 22:54.50 | Constitution | yeah and I was hoping to avoid a scroll bar |
| 22:54.55 | JeffM | Constitution, yeah but that will look wierd |
| 22:54.57 | JeffM | do an image |
| 22:55.07 | JeffM | only one person can edit the post anyway |
| 22:55.59 | alpha1-2 | regarding to drawing measurements, here there is a good tool if it is necessary: http://www.monitorix.org/, it uses RRDtool for drawing (http://oss.oetiker.ch/rrdtool/) maybe quol is using the same or similar |
| 22:56.16 | JeffM | alpha1-2, the code is in svn go look |
| 22:56.30 | JeffM | the graph output was very cool |
| 22:56.40 | JeffM | just need to get it hooked into push stats |
| 22:56.58 | Constitution | almost might as well link to an external page with a table for it? or yeah, an image, although it seems that there could be caching issues |
| 22:57.15 | JeffM | Constitution, change the name of the image on each edit |
| 22:57.18 | JeffM | then edit the post |
| 22:57.20 | JeffM | that won't cache |
| 22:57.24 | JeffM | so each one gets a rev |
| 22:57.43 | JeffM | how many slots do you have? |
| 22:58.06 | Constitution | don't know yet? maybe 15-20 |
| 22:58.12 | *** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (~I_Died_On@unaffiliated/idiedonce/x-1828535) |
| 22:58.56 | JeffM | http://www.blankplayoffbracket.com/ |
| 22:59.11 | JeffM | grab one of those, slap some names on it and just keep saving it as a new name |
| 23:04.15 | *** join/#bzflag I_Died_Once (~I_Died_On@unaffiliated/idiedonce/x-1828535) |
| 23:20.15 | alpha1-2 | Have anyone used http://moooo.org for uploading/downloading files successfully? |
| 23:21.25 | apeman | alpha1-2: ask brad doesnt he host it? |
| 23:22.54 | alpha1-2 | I was/am asking still to him, but he didn't find the solution, maybe it is my Flash version |
| 23:24.52 | brad | actually its broken for me too now |
| 23:25.01 | brad | my attempts to fix made it worse xD |
| 23:25.05 | alpha1-2 | :) |
| 23:25.11 | apeman | gj brad gj |
| 23:25.15 | brad | ty ty |
| 23:25.35 | apeman | isnt it an opensource uploader? |
| 23:25.42 | brad | it isn't |
| 23:25.56 | brad | well, not the backend |
| 23:27.11 | brad | suggests dropbox / mega.co.nz / etc. |
| 23:28.27 | alpha1-2 | I will have a look, thanks... |
| 23:29.41 | apeman | i wonder why he chose mega*.co.nz* |
| 23:29.56 | brad | heh |
| 23:30.06 | alpha1-2 | brad: I sent you my last test just before |
| 23:30.28 | brad | ya I'm getting the same thing, it's not you |
| 23:31.01 | brad | will aim to fix it 'soon' :p |
| 23:31.45 | alpha1-2 | have you seen the little message saying "Failed to upload file. There is a 20MB limit per file."? that could be the clue |
| 23:32.06 | brad | yes just no time irght now, sorry |
| 23:32.08 | brad | righT* |
| 23:32.16 | brad | has to run, later |
| 23:32.19 | alpha1-2 | np and thanks :) |
| 23:32.26 | *** join/#bzflag swigg_ (~swigg@68-119-228-196.dhcp.ahvl.nc.charter.com) |
| 23:33.10 | alpha1-2 | http://images.clipartof.com/small/93470-Royalty-Free-RF-Clipart-Illustration-Of-A-Business-Toon-Guy-Running-And-Holding-Up-His-Finger.jpg |
| 23:33.12 | alpha1-2 | :) |
| 23:34.58 | alpha1-2 | oh, sorry , I remember that he is a secret agent, then something like this better... |
| 23:35.06 | alpha1-2 | http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_318/1223193749BzZSCw.jpg |
| 23:37.26 | blast007 | apeman: so that the US couldn't steal the domain like they can with .com/.net/.org |
| 23:37.59 | apeman | who can steal any domain they want? |
| 23:39.12 | blast007 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domain_name#Seizures |
| 23:39.17 | blast007 | https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/08/members-congress-demand-answers-homeland-securitys-unjust-domain-name-seizures |
| 23:40.30 | alpha1-2_away | EFF is a good site IMO acording to all these issues |
| 23:43.38 | apeman | blast007: >implying illegal activity :P |
| 23:44.37 | apeman | it still bothers me that the greater powers can break whatever laws they want to and not have to answer for it |
| 23:44.59 | apeman | and then after breaking the law they try to pass a bill to legalize it |
| 23:45.20 | apeman | and if the bill fails guess whether theyre let the law stop them |
| 23:48.39 | *** join/#bzflag randomparticle (~randompar@about/essy/snick/randomparticle) |
| 23:49.00 | randomparticle | am trying to compile svn bzflag just downloaded |
| 23:49.24 | randomparticle | is there any chance it will build properly with xcode 4.1? |
| 23:49.30 | randomparticle | i know it says 4.2 in the readme |
| 23:49.55 | alpha1-2_away | do you know or any idea of how much servers are using linux, windows and mac? |
| 23:50.08 | alpha1-2_away | or others * |
| 23:50.08 | randomparticle | i'm getting some compiler error msgs. e.g.: /Users/xyz/src/bzflag-svn/Xcode/../src/bzfs/ShotManager.h:105: error: expected initializer before '<' token |
| 23:51.25 | randomparticle | also: /Users/xyz/src/bzflag-svn/Xcode/../src/bzfs/ShotManager.h:106: error: 'shared_ptr' is not a member of 'std' |
| 23:51.49 | alpha1-2_away | BTW to before --> https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying |
| 23:53.39 | apeman | alpha1-2_away: case dismissed just like that... |
| 23:54.27 | alpha1-2_away | what do you mean? |
| 23:56.09 | alpha1-2_away | other interesting https://www.eff.org/issues/coders |
| 23:57.26 | apeman | <PROTECTED> |
