| 00:40.04 | alpha1-2_away | Interesting about boost/standars |
| 00:40.06 | alpha1-2_away | http://slashdot.org/topic/bi/comparing-the-c-standard-and-boost/ |
| 00:40.14 | alpha1-2_away | standards* |
| 00:45.37 | alpha1-2_away | Wow, it seems that Spanish version has some more info than English one (see the index): |
| 00:45.39 | alpha1-2_away | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boost_%28C%2B%2B_libraries%29 |
| 00:45.40 | alpha1-2_away | http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bibliotecas_Boost |
| 00:47.39 | alpha1-2_away | go spanish people! |
| 00:59.39 | randomparticle | finding diffs in *.h/*.cxx files: |
| 00:59.42 | randomparticle | find bzflag-svn -type f \! \( -name "*.h" -o -name "*.cxx" \) | xargs basename | sed 's/.*\.//' | sed 's/.*/\*\.&/' | sort -u | diff -u -r bzflag-svn ~bzflag-svn -X - |
| 01:01.02 | blast007 | what is all that for? |
| 01:02.06 | alpha1-2_away | why are you finding diff in those different kind of files? |
| 01:02.16 | randomparticle | there might be a more concise way. anyway, here is my patch to get the latest bzflag.app compiling using xcode 4.1 |
| 01:02.17 | randomparticle | http://pastebin.com/qHw4xP44 |
| 01:02.31 | blast007 | randomparticle: why wouldn't 'svn diff' work? |
| 01:03.06 | randomparticle | that would be too easy |
| 01:03.17 | blast007 | well, your patch is worthless |
| 01:04.17 | randomparticle | why? |
| 01:04.36 | blast007 | it's only useful for you, not for us |
| 01:04.41 | alpha1-2_away | ah you search for two kind separated files to find diff in diff versions |
| 01:05.00 | randomparticle | useful for anyone who doesn't have a later version of xcode |
| 01:05.17 | randomparticle | not for you in particular, but for anyone who might stumble across the irc logs looking for an answer |
| 01:06.17 | blast007 | I mean, if you were gonna do it right, you'd modify the configure.ac to detect support for boost and then fall back to that, and then have defines set up for which set of typedefs to create, etc |
| 01:06.32 | randomparticle | configure.ac isn't used |
| 01:06.47 | blast007 | for you it is |
| 01:06.51 | randomparticle | no it isn't |
| 01:06.57 | blast007 | you're using the old build method with gcc, no? |
| 01:07.07 | randomparticle | no. that's the whole point |
| 01:07.21 | alpha1-2_away | XCode: License - Proprietary freeware with open source components :P |
| 01:07.30 | blast007 | so you're using llvm? |
| 01:07.31 | randomparticle | if i use boost and a handful of minor changes to one file, i don't need to use the old method |
| 01:07.41 | alpha1-2_away | weird mix |
| 01:08.39 | blast007 | randomparticle: are you using gcc or llvm? |
| 01:09.19 | randomparticle | llvm gcc 4.2 |
| 01:09.34 | blast007 | so llvm in gcc compatability mode |
| 01:10.03 | blast007 | compatibility* |
| 01:10.06 | randomparticle | i can try it another way if you wish (apple llvm) |
| 01:10.16 | blast007 | are you using the new Xcode project? |
| 01:10.19 | randomparticle | yeah |
| 01:10.47 | blast007 | okay. wasn't sure that would work without the newer Xcode. |
| 01:11.05 | randomparticle | the only thing stopping it from working with xcode 4.1 is 2 templates from the newer c++ libs |
| 01:11.18 | randomparticle | and they only occur in one header file |
| 01:11.36 | randomparticle | and boost has alternatives that *seem* to work |
| 01:13.30 | randomparticle | it compiles fine with apple llvm too |
| 01:19.10 | randomparticle | seems a bit faster building with the native xcode project. complete build time ~32 seconds |
| 01:20.24 | blast007 | was that a clean build? |
| 01:20.27 | randomparticle | yeah |
| 01:20.46 | randomparticle | obviously, if i had an SSD, would be faster |
| 01:21.05 | randomparticle | still on the old spinning museum piece |
| 01:22.46 | randomparticle | can i use an svn command to take a snapshot of this? |
| 01:25.54 | *** join/#bzflag Gnurdux (~gnurdux@c-67-186-57-145.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 01:49.32 | JeffM | you are welcome to submit the patch but it wont' be accepted |
| 01:51.09 | JeffM | aww yeah.. gotta love a joystick that has it's own power cord :) |
| 01:57.09 | JeffM | aww... we don't do force feedback on jump or landing |
| 01:57.15 | JeffM | just shoot and death |
| 02:23.06 | alpha1-2_away | standard HDs aren't musseum piece :) |
| 02:23.13 | alpha1-2_away | pieces* |
| 02:24.22 | alpha1-2_away | I don't like how people is "anxious" for the last last very last ultra new technology allways |
| 02:25.11 | alpha1-2_away | technology need always some time for being addapted/tested etc |
| 02:25.58 | alpha1-2_away | and the previous tech (not necessarily "old") is standard for long time usually |
| 02:27.03 | alpha1-2_away | oh he left |
| 02:28.04 | alpha1-2_away | wow, see this |
| 02:28.07 | alpha1-2_away | PCI-E, DRAM, and NAND based SSD. It uses an external power supply to make the DRAM non-volatile. |
| 02:28.22 | alpha1-2_away | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b2/Ddrdrive_x1.jpg/640px-Ddrdrive_x1.jpg |
| 02:28.51 | alpha1-2_away | from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SSD |
| 02:30.06 | alpha1-2_away | someone plug off the wire and... oops! |
| 02:30.32 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (~Jeffery@cpe-76-167-236-199.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 02:30.32 | *** join/#bzflag JeffM (~Jeffery@unaffiliated/jeffm2501) |
| 02:30.32 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v JeffM] by ChanServ |
| 02:30.58 | alpha1-2_away | (no more jokes, Jeff is here (jk)) |
| 02:42.22 | JeffM | it's all logged so it dosn't matter |
| 02:42.32 | alpha1-2_away | :) |
| 02:43.41 | alpha1-2_away | JeffM: http://pastebin.com/GcaTQ32H |
| 02:44.40 | JeffM | ram drivers have been around for a VERY long time |
| 02:45.02 | JeffM | they used to sell external scsi ones |
| 02:45.10 | JeffM | you'd use them as cache for video processing |
| 02:45.51 | alpha1-2_away | it can be, but that doesn't annul previous technology |
| 02:46.17 | JeffM | the PCI-E ones have been around for a couple years |
| 02:46.27 | alpha1-2_away | I have bought a normal HD SATA 3 last days |
| 02:46.44 | JeffM | keep your processing DB on it and have a cached copy on a physical disk or elsewhere in the cluster |
| 02:46.46 | alpha1-2_away | 500 GB |
| 02:46.56 | JeffM | or load it from a NAS |
| 02:47.10 | Guest90400 | just picked up a 1.2TB PCIe SSD for work, kicks ass for random reads |
| 02:47.19 | *** join/#bzflag trepan (~trepan@unaffiliated/trepan) |
| 02:47.19 | *** mode/#bzflag [+v trepan] by ChanServ |
| 02:47.46 | JeffM | yeah SSD is probalby the way to go |
| 02:48.13 | alpha1-2_away | 1.2 TB is the maximun for SSD? |
| 02:48.24 | alpha1-2_away | maximum* |
| 02:48.43 | trepan | nope, but twas my maximum ... and 1.2TB is more than I need |
| 02:49.14 | alpha1-2_away | durability? amount of reads/writs? |
| 02:49.24 | alpha1-2_away | writes* |
| 02:49.32 | trepan | doesn't much matter for what I'm doing with it |
| 02:50.05 | alpha1-2_away | maybe it can be th way for the future, but still the two technologies are living together |
| 02:50.21 | JeffM | all your important stuff is in the cloud anyway |
| 02:50.26 | alpha1-2_away | and HD aren't "museum pieces" |
| 02:50.51 | trepan | JeffM: ... wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole :) |
| 02:51.00 | JeffM | hence the joke |
| 02:51.13 | alpha1-2_away | (I was talking to <randomparticle> motly, because he said that) |
| 02:51.20 | alpha1-2_away | mostly* |
| 02:51.54 | alpha1-2_away | and the cloud another "anxiety" mor... |
| 02:51.58 | alpha1-2_away | more* |
| 02:52.44 | alpha1-2_away | all the world wants the "last techno", if not, they aren't enough "cool" ;) |
| 02:52.53 | alpha1-2_away | bah! |
| 02:52.59 | alpha1-2_away | ignorants! |
| 02:53.02 | alpha1-2_away | he he |
| 02:53.27 | trepan | JeffM: bzflag "officially" switched to git now? I noticed the github repo |
| 02:53.31 | JeffM | yeah |
| 02:53.46 | JeffM | the idea was to do it for 2.6 |
| 02:54.00 | JeffM | but a few 2.4.x changes got into a branch there too |
| 02:54.03 | JeffM | SF is horrible |
| 02:54.11 | trepan | yup (from what I remember) |
| 02:54.28 | JeffM | it got worse |
| 02:54.34 | trepan | ouch |
| 02:55.00 | trepan | and with SVN's server-centric nature, it must have been quite painful |
| 02:55.30 | JeffM | the SF SVN server ran fine, it was the other services and user management |
| 02:55.37 | JeffM | took me 15 min to figure out how to add a user |
| 03:04.25 | alpha1-2_away | JeffM and why do too people used/use still SVN? |
| 03:04.46 | JeffM | because it's a good tool for one type of workflow |
| 03:05.07 | alpha1-2_away | ? |
| 03:05.25 | JeffM | not everyone wants or needs or can work distributed |
| 03:05.39 | JeffM | it all depends on how your project is setup |
| 03:06.00 | alpha1-2_away | distributed vs centralized? |
| 03:06.25 | JeffM | yeah |
| 03:06.51 | JeffM | git isn't the lord god linus's gift to a VCS starved world |
| 03:06.54 | JeffM | it's just one of many tools |
| 03:07.06 | JeffM | it happens to be popular and has good support now |
| 03:07.13 | JeffM | it used so suck big time on windows |
| 03:07.30 | JeffM | I'd still not want to host a repo if I was windows only |
| 03:09.49 | alpha1-2_away | are you talking of git? |
| 03:09.55 | JeffM | sure |
| 03:10.13 | JeffM | that is why I used the word "git" at the start of the sentance |
| 03:10.13 | alpha1-2_away | an now good Windows support? |
| 03:10.23 | alpha1-2_away | and* |
| 03:10.31 | JeffM | it has acceptable windows support |
| 03:10.37 | JeffM | it's useable |
| 03:10.40 | JeffM | it wasn't before |
| 03:11.08 | alpha1-2_away | ah ok |
| 03:11.30 | alpha1-2_away | previous question: was that (centralized) the main reason for the big change (migration)? |
| 03:11.38 | JeffM | no |
| 03:11.42 | JeffM | SF sucking was |
| 03:11.50 | alpha1-2_away | in what? |
| 03:12.05 | JeffM | how you have to use it |
| 03:12.10 | alpha1-2_away | just the new interface? |
| 03:12.18 | JeffM | the contol panel, the tracker, the loss of features, |
| 03:12.24 | JeffM | it's more then an interface |
| 03:12.28 | JeffM | they changed the entire backend |
| 03:12.32 | alpha1-2_away | previous interface was better? |
| 03:12.33 | JeffM | and lost a lot of features |
| 03:12.41 | JeffM | no |
| 03:12.45 | JeffM | it's been getting worse for years |
| 03:13.10 | alpha1-2_away | the backend too?... weird |
| 03:13.29 | JeffM | github has a very good toolset, so does bitbucket, we compared to two and github came out ever so slightly on top |
| 03:13.43 | JeffM | if github had SVN support I'd probably have just moved it over |
| 03:13.56 | JeffM | so far we havent' made much use of git specific features |
| 03:13.59 | alpha1-2_away | ah.. blast is using bitbucket I think for something |
| 03:14.15 | JeffM | yes for the new backend services for bzflag |
| 03:14.23 | JeffM | since it's a seperate project not owned by tim |
| 03:15.27 | alpha1-2_away | do you know why did SVN do all those changes? for new technologies support maybe? |
| 03:15.37 | JeffM | what changes? |
| 03:15.40 | JeffM | SVN didn't change |
| 03:15.43 | JeffM | SourceForge did |
| 03:16.03 | alpha1-2_away | let me re-read |
| 03:16.44 | JeffM | I don't beilve any of the bzflag admins have a problem with SVN as a tool |
| 03:17.11 | alpha1-2_away | ahh ok, then the SF SVN |
| 03:17.11 | JeffM | a couple of us had problems with sourceforge's changes, how we lost features, it's hard to use, and they arn't replacing some of the things they are removing |
| 03:17.21 | JeffM | SVN had nothing to do with our choice |
| 03:17.45 | alpha1-2_away | the SF support for SVN then? |
| 03:17.46 | JeffM | we just said that if we were going to a new host, we'd look at a distributed system to see if it was any better |
| 03:17.58 | JeffM | no, the rest of the sourceforge site |
| 03:18.04 | JeffM | we used sourceforge for a lot more then just SVN |
| 03:18.09 | alpha1-2_away | ok |
| 03:18.35 | alpha1-2_away | so, now distributed, before centralized? |
| 03:18.53 | JeffM | sure |
| 03:18.59 | alpha1-2_away | ok |
| 03:19.06 | JeffM | but we still maintain a central repository |
| 03:19.14 | JeffM | so those aspects are still run just like the old proejct |
| 03:19.30 | alpha1-2_away | any start advantage to use distributed system? |
| 03:19.30 | JeffM | just patches are now pull requests and slightly easer to manage |
| 03:20.05 | alpha1-2_away | *that you know* |
| 03:20.15 | alpha1-2_away | or just "let's try"? |
| 03:21.02 | JeffM | I haven't seen anything major or world shattering |
| 03:21.13 | JeffM | but not much has been done in the new system |
| 03:21.29 | alpha1-2_away | i know, but I mean, that you know previously |
| 03:21.31 | JeffM | I do like githubs bug tracker and how you can link pull requests to issues |
| 03:22.47 | JeffM | we were not a patch based project so I'm not sure how much benifit we are getting, and I have some fears but I'm willing to see how it goes |
| 03:23.06 | alpha1-2_away | ah ok |
| 03:23.26 | alpha1-2_away | does milestones have to do with it? |
| 03:23.48 | JeffM | yes, I like the milestones feature |
| 03:24.13 | alpha1-2_away | I saw milestones in SF too, what is the difference? |
| 03:24.42 | JeffM | you don't have as many reporting tools with them |
| 03:24.42 | alpha1-2_away | or they are similars? |
| 03:24.48 | JeffM | they are attempts at the same idea |
| 03:24.53 | JeffM | just not as refined |
| 03:25.03 | alpha1-2_away | ah |
| 03:25.03 | JeffM | SF is trying to get similar features to other systems |
| 03:25.18 | JeffM | but they are now onwed by someone who has different goals |
| 03:25.52 | alpha1-2_away | did SF change their owners? |
| 03:26.10 | alpha1-2_away | wow |
| 03:26.15 | JeffM | SF and slashdot were sold to dice |
| 03:26.31 | alpha1-2_away | ah slashsot I heard something yes... |
| 03:26.34 | JeffM | the old owners wanted to just keep making money with thinkgeek |
| 03:26.37 | alpha1-2_away | slashdot* |
| 03:26.56 | alpha1-2_away | ok |
| 03:27.29 | alpha1-2_away | you said: "patches are now pull requests", and before how was they? |
| 03:27.41 | JeffM | patches |
| 03:27.50 | alpha1-2_away | ahh |
| 03:29.09 | alpha1-2_away | but finally they were held the same right? |
| 03:29.21 | JeffM | no, a patch is just a file |
| 03:29.37 | JeffM | a pull request is a link to a changeset in another repository |
| 03:29.44 | JeffM | so it can include multiple history items |
| 03:30.20 | JeffM | so wishes he could use delegates right now |
| 03:31.07 | alpha1-2_away | ok, I meant that finally you (the admins) were handling the patches like potential commits |
| 03:31.16 | JeffM | well lambdas specificly |
| 03:31.29 | JeffM | sure for the few patches we would get |
| 03:31.34 | alpha1-2_away | ok |
| 03:31.40 | JeffM | now we can get a pull request and just tell github to merge it |
| 03:31.48 | JeffM | or merge localy and commit |
| 03:31.52 | JeffM | instead of having to deal with files |
| 03:31.59 | alpha1-2_away | ah yes I saw something of that |
| 03:32.01 | JeffM | it's much more integrated into the VCS |
| 03:32.17 | JeffM | so in that aspect the distributed ones are better |
| 03:32.25 | JeffM | if you accept patches from third parties |
| 03:33.00 | alpha1-2_away | ahh ok, then you have a local copy and that will be the "distributed" part |
| 03:33.24 | JeffM | if that's how you merge it sure |
| 03:33.36 | alpha1-2_away | and the central server will deal with dates and changes |
| 03:34.00 | JeffM | depends on where you merge it |
| 03:34.21 | JeffM | if you merge the pull into the master repo then sure, if you do it localy it gets merged into your local history |
| 03:34.33 | JeffM | then if you sync, it goes into the master |
| 03:34.34 | I_Died_Once | I was ping'd in here and can't see far enough back to see whut whut whut |
| 03:34.39 | alpha1-2_away | "if you accept patches from third parties" <-- this means the distributed developers, right? |
| 03:34.46 | JeffM | I_Died_Once, how long ago? |
| 03:34.49 | JeffM | yesterday? |
| 03:34.53 | I_Died_Once | I don't know |
| 03:35.02 | JeffM | alpha1-2_away, no that means people that don't have push/commit access |
| 03:35.12 | JeffM | I_Died_Once, probably yesterday, some dude didn't like your admins |
| 03:35.17 | I_Died_Once | oh |
| 03:35.26 | I_Died_Once | well bless theirs hearts |
| 03:35.33 | I_Died_Once | the whole bunch of 'em |
| 03:35.49 | JeffM | he was pointed to the various ways to contact you including your channel |
| 03:36.15 | I_Died_Once | ok, great. I'd take a wild guess and say they were handled |
| 03:36.30 | I_Died_Once | and probably before seeking help on the matter |
| 03:36.32 | JeffM | I'd think you'd know about it by now if it wasn't |
| 03:36.59 | I_Died_Once | meh, I still get, about once or twice a week - messages from this player and that |
| 03:37.12 | I_Died_Once | "I was t3h bann0r3d! |
| 03:37.32 | I_Died_Once | B4NN3D |
| 03:37.46 | I_Died_Once | and I'm like... |
| 03:38.00 | I_Died_Once | yep, the server is still running, it seems |
| 03:39.55 | I_Died_Once | "If you wouldn't come on the server, acting like a fool, maybe you won't get banned!" |
| 03:40.14 | JeffM | they said something about "special guest admins" |
| 03:40.32 | I_Died_Once | whut? |
| 03:40.39 | JeffM | thats what we said |
| 03:40.52 | JeffM | is there another server named similar to yours? |
| 03:40.57 | JeffM | pocketlips? |
| 03:41.00 | JeffM | or something |
| 03:41.09 | JeffM | I didn't know if the guy had a typo or not |
| 03:41.11 | I_Died_Once | that's actually us |
| 03:41.14 | I_Died_Once | pocklips |
| 03:41.22 | I_Died_Once | (we moved to another host) |
| 03:41.23 | JeffM | then yeah that's what they said |
| 03:41.33 | I_Died_Once | special guest admins... |
| 03:41.38 | JeffM | they didn't like some kind of guest admin |
| 03:41.44 | I_Died_Once | what is this, the Tonight Show? |
| 03:41.49 | JeffM | dunno |
| 03:41.52 | I_Died_Once | instead of a special guest host |
| 03:41.57 | JeffM | nothing you'd do would suprise me |
| 03:42.00 | I_Died_Once | we got special gusts admins? |
| 03:42.12 | I_Died_Once | who was the special guest admin? |
| 03:42.16 | I_Died_Once | Ben Stiller? |
| 03:42.21 | JeffM | they did not say |
| 03:42.25 | JeffM | and we did not press them for info |
| 03:42.30 | I_Died_Once | Ron Jeremy? |
| 03:42.47 | I_Died_Once | ...and Whoopi Goldberg in the center square! |
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| 05:25.56 | alpha1-2_away | how do yo change tabs in irssi? |
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| 08:39.29 | alezakos | alpha1-2: Press Alt+2 or type /window 2, where 2 is the tab number |
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| 13:27.37 | *** topic/#bzflag is http://BZFlag.org || https://www.ohloh.net/p/bzflag || http://wiki.BZFlag.org/Getting_Help || Channel Logs: http://ibot.rikers.org/%23bzflag/ || 2.4.2 is the current version |
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| 17:25.20 | brad | ~seen randomparticle |
| 17:25.25 | infobot | randomparticle <~randompar@about/essy/snick/randomparticle> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 16h 2m 39s ago, saying: 'can i use an svn command to take a snapshot of this?'. |
| 17:25.28 | brad | ~seen nth |
| 17:25.29 | infobot | nth <~JBouncer@host31-53-245-192.range31-53.btcentralplus.com> was last seen on IRC in channel ##guleague, 3d 21h 54m 39s ago, saying: 'so it would appear he has been playing'. |
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| 19:02.04 | BulletCatcher | One of the nice things about Git is that it is so easy to clone a repo to safely experiment upon the repo itself without risking the integrity of a "production" repo. |
| 19:02.07 | BulletCatcher | After a fair amount of such experimentation, I have concluded that "git push" is forever (just like with Subversion). |
| 19:02.13 | BulletCatcher | Although "git reset" can be used to remove a regretted commit from the tip of a branch, and "git push -f" will remove it from the upstream repo, anyone who has already pulled the commit can just push it back. |
| 19:02.15 | BulletCatcher | This is an inherent consequence of Git's distributed architecture. |
| 19:02.27 | BulletCatcher | In my case, I would have preferred to put the 68c7a06 Makefile.am change onto the v2_4_x branch rather than master so a future merge would be cleaner. |
| 19:02.34 | BulletCatcher | The next best thing to removing the commit is to cherry-pick 68c7a06 from master to v2_4_x, which will keep both branches moving strictly forward at the cost of having 2 different instances of the same change in the commit history. |
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| 21:36.00 | alpha1-2 | very complete BulletCatcher... the master branch is about 2.6 in this case? |
| 21:42.10 | BulletCatcher | The master branch holds version 2.5.1, which will be renamed to 2.6.0 upon release. |
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| 22:21.29 | alpha1-2 | here an useful link it seems (sumarized info) |
| 22:21.31 | alpha1-2 | http://learnxinyminutes.com/ |
| 22:23.31 | alpha1-2 | specially for begginers in c it seems useful |
| 22:23.37 | alpha1-2 | (see c link) |
| 22:24.33 | alpha1-2 | blast007: for you too |
| 22:24.36 | alpha1-2 | he he he |
| 22:25.28 | I_Died_Once | blast has forgotten more about c than most of us will ever learn |
| 22:27.22 | alpha1-2 | (I already past it to ##RO fundation for the learning of his co-funder, the good Snake) |
| 22:27.29 | alpha1-2 | foundation* |
| 22:28.17 | alpha1-2 | that was hard to understand I_Died_Once :P |
| 22:30.28 | alpha1-2 | oh git too inside! nice! |
| 22:30.49 | alpha1-2 | you need some practice in it BulletCatcher too |
| 22:30.52 | alpha1-2 | he he he |
| 22:31.45 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (~SpazzyMcG@149.241.114.84) |
| 22:32.29 | alpha1-2 | oh BulletCatcher, I didn't hear the ring about your answer... |
| 22:32.55 | alpha1-2 | ok, I see |
| 22:35.19 | JeffM | foundation? |
| 22:35.23 | JeffM | it is nothing of the sort |
| 22:35.32 | alpha1-2 | let me see... |
| 22:35.51 | JeffM | it has no legal standing at all |
| 22:36.07 | JeffM | it's 'founder' can't engage in any contracts as a minor |
| 22:36.26 | JeffM | it's simply a group of people |
| 22:36.32 | alpha1-2 | they are donating founds to BZ I think, let me see... |
| 22:36.53 | JeffM | if they are I don't know who to |
| 22:38.55 | alpha1-2 | gotcha! see the title |
| 22:38.57 | alpha1-2 | http://gu-reptiles.blogspot.com.ar/ |
| 22:39.07 | alpha1-2 | :P |
| 22:39.16 | JeffM | oh I know what snake thinks he is, he's lying |
| 22:39.22 | alpha1-2 | he he he |
| 22:39.29 | JeffM | he's a fool |
| 22:39.50 | alpha1-2 | well, in the next future, maybe he can obtain dozens of founds for BZ ;) |
| 22:40.04 | JeffM | doubtful |
| 22:40.09 | alpha1-2 | he he he |
| 22:40.17 | JeffM | bzflag has no place to receive the money even if someone did] |
| 22:40.31 | alpha1-2 | well, at least he pushes some good spirit to the matches :) |
| 22:41.06 | *** join/#bzflag SpazzyMcGee (~SpazzyMcG@149.241.114.84) |
| 22:41.24 | alpha1-2 | oh eraly no place? |
| 22:41.26 | alpha1-2 | really* |
| 22:42.04 | JeffM | we have no company |
| 22:42.19 | alpha1-2 | nobody can make a donation to the project then?? to Tim, to you all? |
| 22:42.30 | JeffM | to tim sure, to us all no |
| 22:43.31 | alpha1-2 | if I would want to make yu Jeff a personal donation to your account fro example? |
| 22:43.50 | JeffM | I wold not accept it unless it was for a specific thing, like buying a shirt |
| 22:44.09 | JeffM | or to go tward the fees to set up a real company |
| 22:44.49 | alpha1-2 | hmm, some complex then |
| 22:45.36 | alpha1-2 | I understand that it is all voluntary work |
| 22:46.34 | alpha1-2 | Firefox has a Foundation right? |
| 22:47.03 | JeffM | mozilla has 2 things |
| 22:47.13 | JeffM | the mozilla foundation is the charity org |
| 22:47.18 | JeffM | they do not make firefox |
| 22:47.28 | JeffM | the mozilla corporation makes firefix |
| 22:47.47 | JeffM | they are not a "non profit" organisaion |
| 22:47.50 | JeffM | they are for profit |
| 22:48.30 | alpha1-2 | I heared about some Firefox, no, LibreOffice developers that they received money from some sponsors |
| 22:48.51 | JeffM | sure, a lot of open source projects have money |
| 22:49.00 | JeffM | best way to get code made, pay people to write it |
| 22:49.16 | alpha1-2 | because they had obtained a good reputation about their patches |
| 22:49.43 | JeffM | most completed a code bounty |
| 22:50.34 | alpha1-2 | "code bounty"? |
| 22:51.18 | JeffM | if I am in charge of the org, I say " I want to see feature A completed", and will pay 100$ to whoever finishes it |
| 22:51.23 | JeffM | then you finish it, I pay you |
| 22:51.27 | JeffM | I get my feature, you get paid |
| 22:51.36 | alpha1-2 | they had some sponsors *personally* "sticked" to themselves, not to the whole organization |
| 22:52.00 | JeffM | people can pay others to do whatever they want :) |
| 22:52.28 | alpha1-2 | it was like they promotted themselves (personally) to obtain those *personal* sponsors |
| 22:52.40 | JeffM | you can do that |
| 22:52.48 | JeffM | however you want to make your cash :) |
| 22:53.45 | alpha1-2 | yes, I understand that. It is the good thing about Free code, because you get paid for your *really* work, and 1 time :) |
| 22:55.33 | alpha1-2 | but the good thing about my comment is that they seems to have obtain those sponsors *permanently*, cause of the developers' fame |
| 22:55.41 | alpha1-2 | obtained* |
| 22:55.50 | alpha1-2 | not just 1 time |
| 22:55.56 | alpha1-2 | interesting |
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| 23:21.19 | alpha1-2_away | if I would run a public server (with bzfs), would it be necessary to use port forwarding? |
| 23:29.00 | JeffM | alpha1-2, depends on our network setup but yes for most home connections |
| 23:29.11 | JeffM | how much upload bandwith do you have? |
| 23:32.09 | alpha1-2 | I have 512 kbps :P |
| 23:32.28 | JeffM | that isn't going to run a very fun server for more then a few of your friends |
| 23:32.41 | alpha1-2 | he he |
| 23:33.28 | alpha1-2 | how much bandwide do consume each client more or less? |
| 23:33.53 | JeffM | depends on how many shots and other players there are |
| 23:34.13 | JeffM | but you usualy want to have several megs/sec upload |
| 23:35.13 | JeffM | but IIRC it ranges from between 150k to 350k per second per player |
| 23:36.24 | alpha1-2 | oh |
| 23:36.32 | alpha1-2 | good data |
| 23:36.50 | alpha1-2 | K bite right? |
| 23:36.58 | alpha1-2 | bit* |
| 23:37.05 | JeffM | bit |
| 23:37.11 | JeffM | the little one |
| 23:37.15 | alpha1-2 | ok |
| 23:37.23 | alpha1-2 | surely? |
| 23:37.27 | alpha1-2 | it seems many |
| 23:38.17 | JeffM | we have not keep effitency in mind when doing networking :) |
| 23:38.48 | alpha1-2 | average of 250 kbps, so I could just host 2 poor players :P |
| 23:39.12 | JeffM | if you kep the shot count low you could probalby be fine with up to 5 |
| 23:39.39 | alpha1-2 | ok.. "hey guys, just move, but DON'T SHOOT!" he he he |
| 23:39.45 | JeffM | that is assuming NOTHING else happens on your network |
| 23:40.01 | JeffM | and that you get 512 consistently |
| 23:40.10 | JeffM | most home connections are spotty |
| 23:42.30 | alpha1-2 | yes, in high demand time, I think either download as upload go to the half |
| 23:42.38 | alpha1-2 | aprox |
| 23:42.57 | alpha1-2 | mostly download I think |
| 23:43.17 | alpha1-2 | I checked the upload, and it came down to 75% arox |
| 23:43.28 | alpha1-2 | aprox. |
| 23:44.56 | JeffM | home connections usualy arn't great for hosting games |
| 23:45.05 | JeffM | rent a server on the internet |
| 23:45.30 | alpha1-2 | any parallel question... whith the new method (bigger server side work), will that amount decrease or increase? |
| 23:45.34 | alpha1-2 | a* |
| 23:45.43 | JeffM | nope |
| 23:45.48 | JeffM | probably stay the same |
| 23:46.02 | alpha1-2 | ok |
| 23:46.14 | JeffM | you still have to tell the client where all the things are |
| 23:46.32 | alpha1-2 | ok |
| 23:47.37 | alpha1-2 | returning to the original question... I don't undersand about port forwarding then, what do you mean? |
| 23:48.01 | JeffM | do you have a router? |
| 23:48.09 | alpha1-2 | yes |
| 23:48.13 | alpha1-2 | modem/router |
| 23:48.18 | JeffM | then you need to use port forwarding |
| 23:48.30 | alpha1-2 | in whick port 5154? |
| 23:48.35 | alpha1-2 | which* |
| 23:48.41 | JeffM | sure |
| 23:48.47 | JeffM | if you set up a server on that port |
| 23:48.54 | JeffM | that's the default but bzfs can use any port |
| 23:48.55 | alpha1-2 | only 1 port, not needed more right? |
| 23:49.14 | JeffM | well one for UDP and TCP but they are always the same number |
| 23:50.56 | alpha1-2 | it is just for security reasons right? |
| 23:51.00 | JeffM | no |
| 23:51.07 | alpha1-2 | (portforwarding) |
| 23:51.07 | JeffM | it work work otherwise |
| 23:51.22 | JeffM | your router is blocking all outside packets because it is doing NAT |
| 23:51.29 | alpha1-2 | ok |
| 23:51.34 | JeffM | so it does not know what computer in your house a new connection would go to |
| 23:51.38 | JeffM | so you have to tell it |
| 23:52.23 | JeffM | port forwarding is one way to tell it where to send the messages |
| 23:53.21 | alpha1-2 | ah ok, and it is used too for security reasons |
| 23:53.45 | alpha1-2 | from port 80 to 8080 for example |
| 23:53.45 | JeffM | sure, it's one way to limit your access |
| 23:53.54 | JeffM | that part dosn't really protect anything |
| 23:54.03 | JeffM | just opening up one port is the security part |
| 23:54.10 | JeffM | where it goes in your internal network dosn't mean much |
| 23:54.17 | JeffM | it's better then doing a DMZ |
| 23:54.40 | alpha1-2 | uh |
| 23:54.56 | alpha1-2 | how do you configure it then? |
| 23:55.03 | alpha1-2 | would* |
| 23:55.16 | alpha1-2 | for exaple a HTML server |
| 23:55.18 | JeffM | depends on your specific router |
| 23:55.20 | alpha1-2 | example* |
| 23:55.39 | JeffM | I'd never run a web server out of my house |
| 23:55.54 | alpha1-2 | ah |
| 23:57.09 | alpha1-2 | and in a rented server, what would you use, portforwarding, DMZ? |
| 23:57.16 | JeffM | firewal |
| 23:57.21 | JeffM | they arn't behind a NAT |
| 23:57.40 | JeffM | they don't share the conention, they are plugged into the internet directly |
| 23:58.11 | alpha1-2 | they don't have any machine in any LAN do you mean? |
| 23:58.37 | JeffM | yeah the rack is all real internet IPs |
| 23:58.46 | JeffM | usualy |
| 23:58.58 | alpha1-2 | oh |
| 23:59.11 | alpha1-2 | ahh yes, static IPS |
| 23:59.25 | alpha1-2 | IPs* |
| 23:59.34 | alpha1-2 | right? |
| 23:59.51 | alpha1-2 | or related |
