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| 05:34.45 | allejo | what originally happened to the idea of putting bz on steam? |
| 05:34.53 | allejo | was it shot down? if so, why? |
| 05:36.40 | JeffM | open source ness, no company |
| 05:36.51 | JeffM | it'd have to go thru the greenlight stuff |
| 05:36.55 | JeffM | removal from debian |
| 05:37.07 | JeffM | there are a number of reasons it would not be the best idea |
| 05:37.50 | JeffM | there also arn't any truely free games on steam |
| 05:38.51 | allejo | what do you mean no free games? all require some form of in game purchase? |
| 05:39.18 | JeffM | yup |
| 05:39.33 | JeffM | valve doen't do it out of the goodness of there heats :) |
| 05:39.51 | allejo | meh :-/ |
| 05:40.02 | allejo | so they wouldn't allow a free game regardless? |
| 05:40.09 | JeffM | yeah |
| 05:40.38 | allejo | :( |
| 05:41.33 | JeffM | hate to be the one to break it to you, this computer industry, it's kinda in it for the profit |
| 05:41.53 | JeffM | steam is not the same as a mobile app store, it has no other income stream, and provides way more services |
| 05:43.32 | allejo | yea, i know :-/ |
| 05:43.58 | JeffM | people still gota eat :_ |
| 05:44.00 | JeffM | :) |
| 05:44.46 | allejo | what's the cheapest bz could go for to make valve happy? :p |
| 05:45.02 | JeffM | probably around bucks |
| 05:45.11 | JeffM | gives them some leeway on sales |
| 05:45.17 | JeffM | sorry 5 bucks |
| 05:45.46 | JeffM | you'd also loose the ability to recompile your client |
| 05:46.07 | allejo | and i know people would object to selling bz |
| 05:46.12 | JeffM | why? |
| 05:46.17 | JeffM | I can sell BZ now |
| 05:46.23 | JeffM | I've sold BZ in the past |
| 05:46.43 | JeffM | wanna buy a copy? |
| 05:46.56 | allejo | if selling bz isn't in question, why not see if steam would take it for the minimum? |
| 05:47.14 | JeffM | because it's not that simple |
| 05:47.24 | JeffM | the issue is not being open source |
| 05:47.33 | allejo | the entire process? |
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| 05:48.11 | JeffM | yeah, if I got bzflag approved thru greenlight you would no longer be able to buid a bzflag client that would work with steam |
| 05:48.24 | JeffM | I woluld be licensed for the closed source Steamworks API |
| 05:48.27 | JeffM | you would not |
| 05:48.46 | JeffM | only me and my employees would have the ability to build and submit bins |
| 05:49.36 | allejo | so the objection would be you don't want to limit who can contribute? |
| 05:49.53 | JeffM | this project is not set up to handle that kind of thing well |
| 05:50.04 | JeffM | if we had a company, etc.. |
| 05:50.11 | JeffM | then it may be different |
| 05:50.21 | allejo | bz has been in need of restructing anyway |
| 05:50.23 | JeffM | but at that point why make it BZ? make it a differnet game |
| 05:51.08 | allejo | using an actual engine... |
| 05:51.10 | allejo | meh |
| 05:51.13 | JeffM | yeah you'd get a bigger audence, but you'd alienate the existing one |
| 05:52.24 | allejo | the very small existing userbase... |
| 05:52.31 | JeffM | yeah |
| 05:52.39 | JeffM | so leave them with this, make a new game :) |
| 05:53.05 | JeffM | there ain't anything unique in bzflag that you'd want to take to steam |
| 05:53.53 | allejo | from that aspect, you make a good point |
| 05:54.05 | allejo | i just want to see this community grow a bit :-/ |
| 05:55.24 | JeffM | steam would fragment it horribly |
| 05:55.30 | JeffM | even at a techicnal level |
| 05:55.40 | JeffM | steam users would get servers and games from steam |
| 05:55.46 | JeffM | use steam to authnticate, etc... |
| 05:55.58 | JeffM | non steam uses would have no way into that world |
| 05:57.56 | allejo | very true, the current auth wouldn't work and there's no way to force steam users to use the current system |
| 05:58.22 | JeffM | yeah considering that's against steam's rules :) |
| 05:58.27 | JeffM | steam games work with steam |
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| 05:58.38 | JeffM | that's what steamworks does for you |
| 05:58.52 | JeffM | some MMOs have special deals to not do that |
| 05:58.59 | JeffM | but they arn't greenlight games |
| 06:00.42 | allejo | :-/ |
| 06:01.30 | JeffM | there are other distrobutions platforms that would work better with the project, but we'd still need a central authority to manage all that |
| 06:01.46 | JeffM | they need one company as the developer/publisher of the game |
| 06:02.02 | JeffM | we've seen how poorly letting the platforms get split up works |
| 06:09.12 | allejo | would an active copyright holder suffice? |
| 06:09.14 | allejo | coughes |
| 06:09.19 | allejo | coughs* |
| 06:10.54 | JeffM | if they were willing to run the company that did it all |
| 06:11.30 | JeffM | they would have to be the legal entity that received payments and signed NDAs and such |
| 06:11.54 | JeffM | they can designate agents |
| 06:12.18 | JeffM | but there needs to be a single entity |
| 06:13.39 | allejo | seems like the best and only approach |
| 06:27.30 | TD-Linux | speaking of app stores, I eventually want to port bzflag to android |
| 06:27.46 | TD-Linux | I started last year but then realized how tedious converting everything to OpenGL ES would be |
| 06:31.20 | JeffM | good luck with that |
| 06:31.50 | JeffM | I can build BZFlag Unity for android, or even iOS |
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| 11:10.04 | blast007 | allejo: desura is probably a better option for us if we want to get into a distribution platform |
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| 17:09.23 | irgendwer4711 | hi, I am searching for information about standard player/user permissions. where to find it? |
| 17:09.40 | blast007 | as in, the defaults? |
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| 17:11.00 | irgendwer4711 | yes |
| 17:11.06 | blast007 | let me check |
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| 17:13.40 | blast007 | irgendwer4711: https://github.com/BZFlag-Dev/bzflag-import-3/blob/v2_4_x/src/bzfs/bzfs.cxx#L5261 the initGroups function handles that. I don't think we have it documented elsewhere (and if it is, it might not be updated). |
| 17:13.59 | irgendwer4711 | yes, its not in wiki |
| 17:14.21 | irgendwer4711 | possible to cut standard permissions? |
| 17:15.41 | blast007 | you can specify your own groupdb file |
| 17:16.47 | blast007 | http://wiki.bzflag.org/Setting_up_a_group_file |
| 17:16.54 | irgendwer4711 | "EVERYONE"? in which order to not cut other groups? |
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| 17:17.24 | blast007 | are you just wanting to have less permissions for players? |
| 17:17.29 | irgendwer4711 | yes |
| 17:18.11 | blast007 | then just redefine the group with every permission except the ones you don't want |
| 17:19.13 | irgendwer4711 | this group is called "everyone"? |
| 17:19.34 | blast007 | that would apply to all users |
| 17:19.45 | blast007 | verified applies to users who are registered and identified |
| 17:19.57 | blast007 | (and it would apply in addition to everyone) |
| 17:20.15 | irgendwer4711 | later listed groups would overwrite permissions? |
| 17:21.00 | blast007 | no, it's additive unless you specify modifers like - or ! |
| 17:21.10 | irgendwer4711 | ah |
| 17:21.25 | blast007 | I think, anyways.. |
| 17:21.43 | blast007 | been a while since I crafted one |
| 17:22.12 | irgendwer4711 | ok |
| 17:22.26 | blast007 | ah, and I guess I do a -ALL at the start of my 'everyone' and 'verified' before adding the ones I want back in |
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| 17:22.57 | blast007 | dunno if that's necessary or not, but keep that in mind if the permissions you want to go away don't go away.. might need to add -ALL as the first thing :) |
| 17:23.07 | blast007 | for example: |
| 17:23.09 | blast007 | EVERYONE: -ALL ACTIONMESSAGE ADMINMESSAGESEND DATE FLAGHISTORY IDLESTATS LAGSTATS PRIVATEMESSAGE SPAWN TALK |
| 17:23.30 | blast007 | and then my verified looks like this: |
| 17:23.32 | blast007 | VERIFIED: -ALL *EVERYONE REQUIREIDENTIFY POLL POLLBAN POLLKICK XPOLLFLAGRESET VOTE |
| 17:24.08 | blast007 | so that first removes all permissions (-ALL), then copies the permissions from everyone (*EVERYONE, the * being the key there) and then adds some more permissions |
| 17:24.28 | irgendwer4711 | cool |
| 17:25.34 | blast007 | I haven't gone too complicated with mine, so I'm not sure of all the oddities :) |
| 17:26.09 | blast007 | for instance, there's also a ! modifier you can put before a permision that will prevent that permission from being applied, even if they would have received it elsewhere |
| 17:26.48 | irgendwer4711 | ok |
| 17:28.24 | BulletCatcher | I have "VERIFIED: -POLLSET" to simply remove that permission for registered players. |
| 17:28.25 | BulletCatcher | That's all you have to do to make a small change to the defaults. |
| 17:29.24 | blast007 | BulletCatcher: cool, wasn't sure if that was how it worked - think I had mine set up like I did in case new permissions every got added. |
| 17:29.27 | blast007 | ever* |
| 17:30.31 | blast007 | there's also command you can use in-game to troubleshoot permissions, like /grouplist, /groupperms, /showperms, etc |
| 17:31.14 | BulletCatcher | Those commands are the best way to check the configuration. |
| 17:32.30 | blast007 | also '/reload groups' is handy so you don't have to restart the server after a groupdb change.. unless you screwed up the permissions and can't run /reload ;) |
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